Re: [WSG] Conflict between Mime Type and Document Type

2008-01-29 Thread Joe Ortenzi
which site is the this site that is showing you the message: Conflict between Mime Type and Document Type On Jan 28 2008, at 23:22, Andrew Freedman wrote: G'day, I see this warning often when using the W3C validator and figured I must be doing something wrong, but as it is a warning I

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Dave Woods
I just like to ask if it might be possible to turn off this version freezing thing in IE8, maybe with some markup or something. I agree with Drew Mclellan when he said in his blog that old browsers must die. Using an HTML5 doctype will remove the need to include the meta tag. Using edge within

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread varun krishnan
I dont think adding another tag makes much sense.. I want my site accessible to lots of browsers .. not just freaking IE Varun, http://varunkrish.com On Jan 29, 2008 6:41 PM, Bruce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is Microsoft going to pay me my time to add another tag to the head of every page on

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Bruce
Is Microsoft going to pay me my time to add another tag to the head of every page on every clients site I've ever done? NOT So it won't happen, why should we spend even more time on MS screwups? Or am I misreading all this? Bruce bkdesign - Original Message - From: Peter Mount [EMAIL

Re: [WSG] Conflict between Mime Type and Document Type

2008-01-29 Thread Andrew Freedman
Joe Ortenzi wrote: which site is the this site that is showing you the message: Conflict between Mime Type and Document Type My apologies. In my haste before the Hail storm hit I sent this off without the URL. http://www.bigbaer.com/css_tutorials/css.image.text.wrap.htm Andrew

[WSG] Perth: Event - Usability and Web Startups

2008-01-29 Thread Gary Barber
This will be relevant to people in Perth, Western Australia its been a bit long between WSG meetings in the west. In case you didn't know there is a micro conference on tomorrow night (Wednesday 30th January, 6:30 pm for 7:00pm) . The Australian Web Industry Association is presenting

[WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Peter Mount
Hi I just like to ask if it might be possible to turn off this version freezing thing in IE8, maybe with some markup or something. I agree with Drew Mclellan when he said in his blog that old browsers must die. -- Peter Mount Web Development for Business Mobile: 0411 276602 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[ADMIN] THREAD CLOSED Re: [WSG] APHP counter script

2008-01-29 Thread Lea de Groot
On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:49:40 -0800, Hayden's Harness Attachment wrote: The nonprofit I run a web site for again wants a counter. I did work on putting together a PHP counter and came up with the following. We are off topic here. If anyone would like to comment, plase reply to Angus directly :)

[WSG] APHP counter script

2008-01-29 Thread Hayden's Harness Attachment
The nonprofit I run a web site for again wants a counter. I did work on putting together a PHP counter and came up with the following. ?php $vCounter = TotVis.txt; if(file_exists($vCounter)) { $oFile = fopen($vCounter, r+); $visits = fread($oFile,filesize($vCounter)); $visits++; rewind($oFile);

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread David Dorward
On 29 Jan 2008, at 13:48, Dave Woods wrote: Using an HTML5 doctype will remove the need to include the meta tag. What a shame that HTML5 has only just released its first official draft ... which has comments like: 6.3.5.2. Broadcasting over Bluetooth Does anyone know enough

RES: [WSG] Usability for downloading documents

2008-01-29 Thread Genau
You could use a select box menu to allow the user choosing an action (Read / Print / Open.) Is how newer web tools are working with multi-functions on the same stage of navigation. Genau L. Jr. Media Developer Curitiba-PR Brazil De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Em nome

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Chris Broadfoot
Bruce wrote: - Original Message - From: Peter Mount [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 7:18 AM Subject: [WSG] This IE8 controversy Hi I just like to ask if it might be possible to turn off this version freezing thing in IE8, maybe with

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Chris Knowles
Chris Broadfoot wrote: I personally think it's great. Think of the time you save by not having to debug IE. why won't we have to debug IE? We'll still have to make our sites work in IE7 and IE6 for quite some time. I don't see how opting-in to standards by adding a meta tag does anything

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Chris Broadfoot
Chris Knowles wrote: Chris Broadfoot wrote: I personally think it's great. Think of the time you save by not having to debug IE. why won't we have to debug IE? We'll still have to make our sites work in IE7 and IE6 for quite some time. Sure. But if IE8 in standards mode is any good, then

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Ben Buchanan
I just like to ask if it might be possible to turn off this version freezing thing in IE8, maybe with some markup or something. I agree with Drew Mclellan when he said in his blog that old browsers must die. You can't turn it off as such, since it will be built in to IE8 and enabled by

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Chris Knowles
Chris Broadfoot wrote: Chris Knowles wrote: I don't see how opting-in to standards by adding a meta tag does anything for me or anyone else. Except for Microsoft of course, by allowing them to do the right thing at last and create a decent browser while at the same time not doing the

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Chris Broadfoot
Chris Knowles wrote: Chris Broadfoot wrote: Chris Knowles wrote: I don't see how opting-in to standards by adding a meta tag does anything for me or anyone else. Except for Microsoft of course, by allowing them to do the right thing at last and create a decent browser while at the

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Ben Buchanan
I don't think they're ignoring the mess they created at all.. You're right there. They're not ignoring the problem, it's just that a lot of people don't agree with their solution. Is adding a meta tag really too much work to provide your users/visitors the viewing experience they should have?

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Bruce
...Too much work for those that aren't in the know. Chris. I disagree. Why should I make fixes on my clents sites because ie8 doesn't work properly? I won't, and what I know has nothing to do with it. MS says it would cost too much to change the engine. well, too bad, I'm not going to with

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Christian Snodgrass
Chris Knowles wrote: Chris Broadfoot wrote: Chris Knowles wrote: I don't see how opting-in to standards by adding a meta tag does anything for me or anyone else. Except for Microsoft of course, by allowing them to do the right thing at last and create a decent browser while at the same

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Casey Farrell
I disagree. Why should I make fixes on my clents sites because ie8 doesn't work properly? I won't, and what I know has nothing to do with it. MS says it would cost too much to change the engine. well, too bad, I'm not going to with my time fix their errors. Good luck keeping clients with

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Chris Knowles
Christian Snodgrass wrote: The biggest problem is the fact that if they don't have it be the opt-in option, that any older sites that used all of the hacks that made it work in IE6 and IE7 won't work in IE8. That probably includes even a lot of your own sites. Beyond that (since they could

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Chris Broadfoot
Christian Snodgrass wrote: The biggest problem is the fact that if they don't have it be the opt-in option, that any older sites that used all of the hacks that made it work in IE6 and IE7 won't work in IE8. That probably includes even a lot of your own sites. Beyond that (since they could

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Jermayn Parker
nothing is wrong with it!! saves times, money, grey hairs and we will all live longer happier lives! If you have a web-based application that will break in IE8, then whats so wrong with adding an HTTP header or a meta tag to say 'use IE7' ?

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Christian Snodgrass
Well said. Another thing is, as much as everyone gripes and moans, you can't just start ignoring IE. Well, I guess you could, but then you'd miss about 50% of your possible audience. That would probably tick some clients off. It is the best solution they can come up with that won't destroy

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Bruce
Precisely and well said, bruce bkdesign - Original Message - From: Ben Buchanan snip/ Consider it this way: is any other browser maker asking you to modify every single HTML document you publish, just to fix a problem *they* created? ...and not for the first time, given MS

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Christian Snodgrass
Chris Knowles wrote: Christian Snodgrass wrote: The biggest problem is the fact that if they don't have it be the opt-in option, that any older sites that used all of the hacks that made it work in IE6 and IE7 won't work in IE8. That probably includes even a lot of your own sites. Beyond

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Matt Fellows
A great point Casey. MS have taken the first major step in moving towards a standards compliant industry and we, the web designer, are complaining that it's going to break our old sites hacked up for IE6/IE7. The saying says 'we can't have our cake and eat it too', but in fact we can. We have

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Andrew Ingram
Chris Knowles wrote: Yeah actually I agree, they're not ignoring the mess. Just actively covering it up by enlisting yours and my support. My users/visitors should get the right viewing experience by default, not by having to opt-in. On the contrary, if you wish your users/visitors to NOT

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Karl Lurman
I think the opt-in approach is really the only path they can take. They can't very well abandon all the website, intranets, extranets that are coded specifically to take advantage of Microsoft 'features' within older IE browsers. The corporate environment is fairly adverse to change, even on a

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Chris Broadfoot
Matt Fellows wrote: A great point Casey. MS have taken the first major step in moving towards a standards compliant industry and we, the web designer, are complaining that it's going to break our old sites hacked up for IE6/IE7. The saying says 'we can't have our cake and eat it too', but in

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Katrina
What's so wrong with adding a tag that says use IE8? Standards are a type of contract creating abstraction. If you develop to standards, you don't need to know, nor should you, what browser or version they are running. This tag breaks that abstraction. It's white box rather than black

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Karl Lurman wrote: I think the thing to remember here is that, over time, the older browsers will be phased out. Jokes aside. As the older browsers FINALLY become less important, YEARS from now, they can eliminate the meta-tag altogether. But the crappy intranet sites etc that are coded

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Chris Knowles
Chris Broadfoot wrote: Too much work for those that aren't in the know. but not too much work for you and me? What I think it really means is that those not in the know would have to be told - and that could damage reputations! (which can hurt revenues) I'd argue that it's one of the

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Jermayn Parker
and then we will see the infamous pre-2000 days with websites reading: This is best viewed using Internet Explorer 6 Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] 30/01/2008 11:55:19 am Karl Lurman wrote: I think the thing to remember here is that, over time, the older browsers will be phased out.

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Christian Snodgrass
There is another possible outcome which is positive. It's more likely (assuming they get the info about the meta-tag out there) that new sites will be developed using this meta-tag and standards-compliance. Eventually, the old sites will be replaced with new ones built in this fashion. Then,

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Christian Snodgrass
Chris Broadfoot wrote: Christian Snodgrass wrote: The biggest problem is the fact that if they don't have it be the opt-in option, that any older sites that used all of the hacks that made it work in IE6 and IE7 won't work in IE8. That probably includes even a lot of your own sites. Beyond

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Michael Horowitz
I would assume any professional developer will test any application they currently support with IE 8 when it comes out. I'm sure I will get a lot of business from new clients who need their sites updated to support whatever changes MSFT makes. Lets face it how many older sites need to be

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Karl Lurman
Train: there is a 6:30 pm overnight train,clean and comfortable, that leaves from Bangkok's Hualomphong Station. You can buy a train + ferry ticket package a day in advance(approx.800 baht) from travel agencies on Kao San Rd. You will arrive at 6 am in Surat Thani and catch a connecting bus to

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Mark Harris
Karl Lurman wrote: Train: there is a 6:30 pm overnight train,clean and comfortable, that leaves from Bangkok's Hualomphong Station. You can buy a train + ferry ticket package a day in advance(approx.800 baht) from travel agencies on Kao San Rd. You will arrive at 6 am in Surat Thani and catch a

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Jermayn Parker
Just keep the website to look and behave right in IE7 then! and create every new website or important/ re-designed websites with the new target IE8 tags! sounds quite simple to me. Maybe not the most perfect but you cannot expect everything to jump over night! Christian Snodgrass [EMAIL

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Thomas Thomassen
But the crappy intranet sites etc that are coded specifically to IE6 or IE7's quirks *won't* go away (as that's the whole reason why MS are doing this), so no, the meta tag (and the associated rendering engine) will stay. If they're freezing rendering unless you opt-in because corporates won't

Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Thomas Thomassen
You don't have to modify every single HTML you publish. You can set the HTTP header for HTML files on your server and off you go. Btw, you have to author every single document, so is it really that bad to add a meta tag? They don't want to default to IE8 rendering because of what happend with