Re: [WSG] Re: Why code and no web pag

[Christian Snodgrass]

This isn't really the place to discuss this as it has nothing to do with 
web standards, but it is because you can't have an include using an 
absolute path, they must all be relative. 
http://www.example.com/page.php is absolute. /page.php is relative.


Hayden's Harness Attachment wrote:

Solved the problem. However, why does;

include "../crf_header.php";

Will work and;

include http://www.choroideremia.org/crf_header.php;

Will not?

Angus MacKinnon
Infoforce Services
http:ééwww.infoforce-services.com

It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible.
George Washington



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--

Christian Snodgrass
Azure Ronin Web Design
http://www.arwebdesign.net/ 
Phone: 859.816.7955



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[WSG] Re: Why code and no web pag

[Hayden's Harness Attachment]

Solved the problem. However, why does;

include "../crf_header.php";

Will work and;

include http://www.choroideremia.org/crf_header.php;

Will not?

Angus MacKinnon
Infoforce Services
http:ééwww.infoforce-services.com

It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible.
George Washington



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[WSG] Why code and no web pag

[Hayden's Harness Attachment]

I am sorry for the off topic message. I did not know who to turn to. Please 
reply to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I have the following on a Windows Vista Home Premium PC.

http://www.choroideremia.org/events/national_capital_marathon_may2008.php

The code shows in my text editor, however, it will not display in IE7 or 
Firefox. Does someone know why? Everything shows just fine.

Angus MacKinnon
Infoforce Services
http:ééwww.infoforce-services.com

It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible.
George Washington



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Re: [WSG] long description and its implementation

[dwain]

thanks to all of you who have commented on this concern of mine.  i really
appreciate the feed back.  time to lurk again.
cheers,
dwain

On 2/2/08, Christian Snodgrass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> If that is the case, you could just use simple links and have a mention
> about clicking on the artwork to read an in-depth description.
>
> dwain wrote:
> > i do go into some detail about color meanings and the symbolism behind
> > the work, so i think that it could be of benefit to both sighted and
> > visually challenged individuals.
> > dwain
> >
> > On 2/2/08, *Thierry Koblentz* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > On Behalf Of dwain
> > >
> > > excellent suggestion!!  i have other plans for the page with the
> > larger image as far as a "description" goes, but the link text
> > suggestion is
> > > superb.  i wanted a way to let screen readers know that there
> > was a description of the image for non-sighted, blind, whatever is
> > politically
> > > correct these days, available for accessibility.
> >
> > If these links are for screen-reader users, then why not hiding
> > them in visual browsers?
> > imho, many sighted users will be confused by your long description
> > pages, I believe most users won't understand their purpose.
> > Unless of course they do more than describing the image. For
> > example, in the case these images are not only described, but
> > *interpreted* (for example by the artist explaining his work,
> > symbolic, etc).
> > If it is the latter, then the description is for all users.
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ***
> > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
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> > 
> > ***
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > dwain alford
> > "The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
> > for his inner impulse must find suitable expression."  Kandinsky
> > ***
> > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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>
>
> --
>
> Christian Snodgrass
> Azure Ronin Web Design
> http://www.arwebdesign.net/ 
> Phone: 859.816.7955
>
>
>
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-- 
dwain alford
"The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression."  Kandinsky


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Re: [WSG] long description and its implementation

[Christian Snodgrass]

If that is the case, you could just use simple links and have a mention 
about clicking on the artwork to read an in-depth description.


dwain wrote:
i do go into some detail about color meanings and the symbolism behind 
the work, so i think that it could be of benefit to both sighted and 
visually challenged individuals.

dwain

On 2/2/08, *Thierry Koblentz* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote:


> On Behalf Of dwain
>
> excellent suggestion!!  i have other plans for the page with the
larger image as far as a "description" goes, but the link text
suggestion is
> superb.  i wanted a way to let screen readers know that there
was a description of the image for non-sighted, blind, whatever is
politically
> correct these days, available for accessibility.

If these links are for screen-reader users, then why not hiding
them in visual browsers?
imho, many sighted users will be confused by your long description
pages, I believe most users won't understand their purpose.
Unless of course they do more than describing the image. For
example, in the case these images are not only described, but
*interpreted* (for example by the artist explaining his work,
symbolic, etc).
If it is the latter, then the description is for all users.

--
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com






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--
dwain alford
"The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression."  Kandinsky
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--

Christian Snodgrass
Azure Ronin Web Design
http://www.arwebdesign.net/ 
Phone: 859.816.7955



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Re: [WSG] long description and its implementation

[dwain]

i do go into some detail about color meanings and the symbolism behind the
work, so i think that it could be of benefit to both sighted and visually
challenged individuals.
dwain

On 2/2/08, Thierry Koblentz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Behalf Of dwain
> >
> > excellent suggestion!!  i have other plans for the page with the larger
> image as far as a "description" goes, but the link text suggestion is
> > superb.  i wanted a way to let screen readers know that there was a
> description of the image for non-sighted, blind, whatever is politically
> > correct these days, available for accessibility.
>
> If these links are for screen-reader users, then why not hiding them in
> visual browsers?
> imho, many sighted users will be confused by your long description pages,
> I believe most users won't understand their purpose.
> Unless of course they do more than describing the image. For example, in
> the case these images are not only described, but *interpreted* (for example
> by the artist explaining his work, symbolic, etc).
> If it is the latter, then the description is for all users.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ***
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>


-- 
dwain alford
"The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression."  Kandinsky


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RE: [WSG] long description and its implementation

[Thierry Koblentz]

> On Behalf Of dwain
> 
> excellent suggestion!!  i have other plans for the page with the larger image 
> as far as a "description" goes, but the link text suggestion is 
> superb.  i wanted a way to let screen readers know that there was a 
> description of the image for non-sighted, blind, whatever is politically
> correct these days, available for accessibility.

If these links are for screen-reader users, then why not hiding them in visual 
browsers?
imho, many sighted users will be confused by your long description pages, I 
believe most users won't understand their purpose.
Unless of course they do more than describing the image. For example, in the 
case these images are not only described, but *interpreted* (for example by the 
artist explaining his work, symbolic, etc). 
If it is the latter, then the description is for all users.

-- 
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com






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Re: [WSG] long description and its implementation

[dwain]

excellent suggestion!!  i have other plans for the page with the larger
image as far as a "description" goes, but the link text suggestion is
superb.  i wanted a way to let screen readers know that there was a
description of the image for non-sighted, blind, whatever is politically
correct these days, available for accessibility.
dwain

On 2/2/08, Patrick H. Lauke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> dwain wrote:
> > you are saying put the longdesc on the text rather than the image.  i
> > will be adding text saying that if you click the image it will take you
> > to the longdesc and click the text link to take you to a larger version
> > of the picture.
>
> I'd posit that sighted users, when coming across a page of thumbnails,
> will still expect the thumbs to take them to the larger view, regardless
> of any text you put in anywhere else on the page.
>
> If I had to add long description, I'd include it on the actual page that
> shows the larger version of the painting - either as part of the text on
> the right itself, or as a clearly marked link underneath the large image
> ("text description of this painting" or similar).
>
> P
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
> __
> re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
> [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
> www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
> http://redux.deviantart.com
> __
> Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
> http://webstandards.org/
> __
>
>
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-- 
dwain alford
"The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression."  Kandinsky

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Re: [WSG] long description and its implementation

[Patrick H. Lauke]

dwain wrote:
you are saying put the longdesc on the text rather than the image.  i 
will be adding text saying that if you click the image it will take you 
to the longdesc and click the text link to take you to a larger version 
of the picture.


I'd posit that sighted users, when coming across a page of thumbnails, 
will still expect the thumbs to take them to the larger view, regardless 
of any text you put in anywhere else on the page.


If I had to add long description, I'd include it on the actual page that 
shows the larger version of the painting - either as part of the text on 
the right itself, or as a clearly marked link underneath the large image 
("text description of this painting" or similar).


P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__


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Re: [WSG] long description and its implementation

[dwain]

thierry, i do belive that this is more intuitive.  thanks for your input.  i
think that text saying that the text link leads to a longdesc of the work.
how does that sound to the group.  should work well in a screen reader too.

as for the scripting, i have no clue how to do it.  my education has not
gone that far yet.  it is a major draw back to being just a designer and not
a developer.  there is still much i need to learn (js, php, mysql), but $$$
is the hold up at the moment.  books help, but some instruction would be
most valuable.
dwain

On 2/2/08, dwain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> you are saying put the longdesc on the text rather than the image.  i will
> be adding text saying that if you click the image it will take you to the
> longdesc and click the text link to take you to a larger version of the
> picture.
>
> i see your point though.  i'll give it a try and put the page back up for
> more comments.
> dwain
>
> On 2/2/08, Thierry Koblentz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > On Behalf Of dwain
> > >
> > >
> > > here's the link to the example:
> > http://studiokdd.com/sandbox/abstract-christian-art-new-testament.html
> > >
> > > i have the jesus and disciples pic set to the long description and the
> > text link to the larger pic.
> > >
> > > any feedback would be appreciated.
> >
> > Don't you think this approach may confuse sighted users? Most people
> > expect thumbnail images to be linked to a larger version.
> > I'd do the opposite and use the link for the long description page, but
> > moving it off-screen (bringing it back into view for keyboard users).
> > I'd also use a script to build the link (pulling the HREF value from the
> > longdesc attribute), since the resource is already part of the document.
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ***
> > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
> > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > ***
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> dwain alford
> "The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
> for his inner impulse must find suitable expression."  Kandinsky
> ***
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-- 
dwain alford
"The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression."  Kandinsky


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Re: [WSG] long description and its implementation

[dwain]

you are saying put the longdesc on the text rather than the image.  i will
be adding text saying that if you click the image it will take you to the
longdesc and click the text link to take you to a larger version of the
picture.

i see your point though.  i'll give it a try and put the page back up for
more comments.
dwain

On 2/2/08, Thierry Koblentz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Behalf Of dwain
> >
> >
> > here's the link to the example:
> http://studiokdd.com/sandbox/abstract-christian-art-new-testament.html
> >
> > i have the jesus and disciples pic set to the long description and the
> text link to the larger pic.
> >
> > any feedback would be appreciated.
>
> Don't you think this approach may confuse sighted users? Most people
> expect thumbnail images to be linked to a larger version.
> I'd do the opposite and use the link for the long description page, but
> moving it off-screen (bringing it back into view for keyboard users).
> I'd also use a script to build the link (pulling the HREF value from the
> longdesc attribute), since the resource is already part of the document.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
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-- 
dwain alford
"The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression."  Kandinsky


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RE: [WSG] long description and its implementation

[Thierry Koblentz]

> On Behalf Of dwain
>
>
> here's the link to the example:  
> http://studiokdd.com/sandbox/abstract-christian-art-new-testament.html
>
> i have the jesus and disciples pic set to the long description and the text 
> link to the larger pic.
>
> any feedback would be appreciated.

Don't you think this approach may confuse sighted users? Most people expect 
thumbnail images to be linked to a larger version.
I'd do the opposite and use the link for the long description page, but moving 
it off-screen (bringing it back into view for keyboard users).
I'd also use a script to build the link (pulling the HREF value from the 
longdesc attribute), since the resource is already part of the document.

-- 
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com






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Re: [WSG] Good News and longdesc info

[dwain]

congratulations frank!!  i know that you are just who they were looking for
and that your work for them will be superb.
looking forward to the longdesc implementation that you have written.
dwain

On 2/2/08, Frank Palinkas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> After almost two months of phone interviews and written tests, late
> yesterday I received an offer from Opera, Oslo for the Technical Writer
> position they had open. I'm still in shock. Some of you know I've been
> trying to get out of here for a while, and finally the work has paid off.
> This tech writer position requires hands-on knowledge and use of (X)HTML,
> CSS, and DOM/JavaScript by the author. This suits me perfect, seeing that
> all my work is done in IDE editors for those languages. Now all I have to do
> is live up to their standards, and I'll be ok. It's truly a privilege to be
> joining the Opera Team.
>
> Dwain, as part of the written exams for Opera, I was asked to devise a
> solution similar to the longdesc attribute problem you describe. I did, but
> unfortunately I'm still under an NDA regarding the Opera job application
> process. When I receive notification that I can publish this solution from
> them, I'll make sure to let you and the list know immediately. Also, I'll
> submit it to Chris Mills, editor of dev.opera.com to see if he thinks if
> fit for publication to that site.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Frank M. Palinkas
>
>
>
>
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>


-- 
dwain alford
"The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression."  Kandinsky


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Re: [WSG] Good News and longdesc info

[kate]

Hi Frank,

I just joined this week. It did'nt do you any harm lol
Kate


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RE: [WSG] Good News and longdesc info

[Frank Palinkas]

Thanks Kate!

One thing I failed to mention: the value of being a member of this list is 
priceless.

Kind regards,

Frank

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kate
Sent: 02 February 2008 03:25 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Good News and longdesc info

Well done Frank!!!
Kate
Bichon Frisé
http://jungaling.com/kynismarmissmillie/index.php
Malaysia:
http://julienne.wordpress.com/



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Re: [WSG] long description and its implementation

[Patrick H. Lauke]

David Dorward wrote:


On 2 Feb 2008, at 06:26, dwain wrote:

i was saddened by the "D" link being deprecated. 


I'm not; as techniques go, it is ugly and confusing. Unless a user is 
aware of the convention, they are left wondering what a 
link labelled "d" means.


Absolutely. I'm puzzled that browsers themselves don't offer a native 
way of getting to the longdesc (unless there's AT running on top).

Incidentally, ages ago I made this small extension for Firefox
http://www.splintered.co.uk/experiments/55/

--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__


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Re: [WSG] Good News and longdesc info

[kate]

Well done Frank!!!
Kate
Bichon Frisé
http://jungaling.com/kynismarmissmillie/index.php
Malaysia:
http://julienne.wordpress.com/ 




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[WSG] Good News and longdesc info

[Frank Palinkas]

Hi folks,

After almost two months of phone interviews and written tests, late yesterday I 
received an offer from Opera, Oslo for the Technical Writer position they had 
open. I'm still in shock. Some of you know I've been trying to get out of here 
for a while, and finally the work has paid off. This tech writer position 
requires hands-on knowledge and use of (X)HTML, CSS, and DOM/JavaScript by the 
author. This suits me perfect, seeing that all my work is done in IDE editors 
for those languages. Now all I have to do is live up to their standards, and 
I'll be ok. It's truly a privilege to be joining the Opera Team.

Dwain, as part of the written exams for Opera, I was asked to devise a solution 
similar to the longdesc attribute problem you describe. I did, but 
unfortunately I'm still under an NDA regarding the Opera job application 
process. When I receive notification that I can publish this solution from 
them, I'll make sure to let you and the list know immediately. Also, I'll 
submit it to Chris Mills, editor of dev.opera.com to see if he thinks if fit 
for publication to that site.

Kind regards,

Frank M. Palinkas




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Re: [WSG] long description and its implementation

[John Faulds]

You don't need a longdesc in that example because you're already linking  
to it by an anchor.


On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 17:34:09 +1000, dwain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


here's the link to the example:
http://studiokdd.com/sandbox/abstract-christian-art-new-testament.html

i have the jesus and disciples pic set to the long description and the  
text

link to the larger pic.

any feedback would be appreciated.
dwain

On 2/2/08, Elizabeth Spiegel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Hi Dwain

See Joe Clark's book, Building accessible websites - online at
http://joeclark.org/book/sashay/serialization/Chapter06.html


Elizabeth Spiegel
Web editing

0409 986 158
GPO Box 729, Hobart TAS 7001
www.spiegelweb.com.au




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
On

Behalf Of dwain
Sent: Saturday, 2 February 2008 4:33 PM
To: web standards group
Subject: [WSG] long description and its implementation


i have looked at the html 4.01 specs and i did not see any examples of  
how
to implement the  element.  i am working on long descriptions  
on

separate pages for each work of art on my web site.  i am planning on
placing a "D" link next to the text title of the work on the "main"
category
page.  could someone point me in the direction to any other references  
as

to
the proper implementation of the  element?  maybe someone  
would

provide a standards compliant example?

tia,
dwain

--
dwain alford
"The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression."  Kandinsky
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Re: [WSG] long description and its implementation

[dwain]

i see your point.

On 2/2/08, David Dorward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On 2 Feb 2008, at 06:26, dwain wrote:
>
> i was saddened by the "D" link being deprecated.
>
>
> I'm not; as techniques go, it is ugly and confusing. Unless a user is
> aware of the convention, they are left wondering what a link labelled "d"
> means.
>
>
> --
> David Dorward
> http://dorward.me.uk/
> http://blog.dorward.me.uk/
>
>
>
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-- 
dwain alford
"The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression."  Kandinsky


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Re: [WSG] long description and its implementation

[David Dorward]

On 2 Feb 2008, at 06:26, dwain wrote:


i was saddened by the "D" link being deprecated.


I'm not; as techniques go, it is ugly and confusing. Unless a user is  
aware of the convention, they are left wondering what a link labelled  
"d" means.



--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/
http://blog.dorward.me.uk/




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