Re: [WSG] an accessible question: server-side vs client-side validation
Hi Tee, What John is saying is that AJAX is JavaScript yes, but it can also make calls to the server (using the XMLHttpRequest object) thus it validates using server-side technologies such as PHP. But what is misleading is that validation using AJAX can be disabled quite easily simply by disabling JavaScript rendering a nice big security hole. That is where the true server-side validation must double-check. Actually, as Mike said you can and should use both. Server-side validation makes the user wait, so using JavaScript is a good thing as it is reactive and keeps the user informed as to what is going on. If you are interested, I wrote a small JS library that may be of use to you. It is a plug'n'play like JS file to automagically validate basic forms which is totally unobtrusive and promotes separation of concerns. To add extra fancy AJAX stuff is a matter of overriding a class and implementing your specific needs. I've still got a bit of work to do on it, but you can certainly get an idea. The url is: http://www.onegeek.com.au/articles/programming/javascript-form-validation.php I'd be happy to help you if you need, just shoot us through an email. Cheers, Matt On 2/12/08, Mordechai Peller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: tee wrote: Hi, I have a question about server-side vs client-side validation. I always use a same PHP form script that works really great and it's server-side validation using condition and requirement, and I like the feature better than client-side's. A website I was working on, client wants client-side validation, something fancy, something Ajax. I like to stick with this form script because it has a great support for anti-spam; I suppose I can turn off the server-side validation if client-side validation is used, but I am concerned with the accessibility issue - I am particular curious how screen readers treat client-side validation. As important as accessibility is, there is an issues many times more important which is relevant to your question: security. Unless you implement sever-side validation (either in addition to client-side, or instead of), neither yours, nor your visitors data is safe. For example, via SQL injection your database can become an open book to a cracker. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [WSG] an accessible question: server-side vs client-side validation
Why client-side *VS* server side? Why *versus*? They must work together. 1. We cannot dismiss server-side validation for security reasons. So, server-side validaion should stay. 2. Client-side script is usable. It checks the form before submission, saves user's time and improves user experience. Example here: http://blog.micromarketing.ru/contacts/ (In Russian, but I hope you'll find the form :) ) And, I believe, client-side validation decreases server load. It decreases the quantity of invalid forms submitted by users. If the form is valid, server doesn't have to handle errors, send error-page, etc. --- Regards, Alexey Novikov http://studiomade.ru *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hello
Kat wrote: Is Web 2.0 larger than the web itself? I don't know, but it's certainly *beyond* the web. Librarians around the world have been flapping their arms and gums about Library 2.0 for ages, which, imo, is even more ridiculous than Web 2.0. lib. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] an accessible question: server-side vs client-side validation
Hi Matt, thank you very much! Your JS library looks very interesting and I certainly will play with it. I see that the radio group has not been implemented, is this something coming out soon? The web form has radio buttons with multi-selection options. Cheers, tee On Feb 12, 2008, at 2:12 AM, Matt Fellows wrote: Hi Tee, What John is saying is that AJAX is JavaScript yes, but it can also make calls to the server (using the XMLHttpRequest object) thus it validates using server-side technologies such as PHP. But what is misleading is that validation using AJAX can be disabled quite easily simply by disabling JavaScript rendering a nice big security hole. That is where the true server-side validation must double-check. If you are interested, I wrote a small JS library that may be of use to you. It is a plug'n'play like JS file to automagically validate basic forms which is totally unobtrusive and promotes separation of concerns. To add extra fancy AJAX stuff is a matter of overriding a class and implementing your specific needs. I've still got a bit of work to do on it, but you can certainly get an idea. The url is: http://www.onegeek.com.au/articles/programming/javascript-form-validation.php I'd be happy to help you if you need, just shoot us through an email. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hello
kevin mcmonagle wrote: yes its a buzzword mostly but from a design standpoint its also a genre. That's an interesting thought. Is Web 2.0 larger than the web itself? Has it become an art movement/period, in the same way as Modernism, Post-Modernism, Humanism, Impressionism, etc? Kat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] an accessible question: server-side vs client-side validation
+1 on this. I am no l33t h4x0r (by any stretch of the imagination), but even I know I can easily circumvent client-side validation for nefarious purposes in at least the following ways: 1. save the form onto my drive, remove all js and submit the form to your server url with pretty much any data I like in it 2. switch off javascript and mash that submit button Web apps should be built to work first without JS, and then the js behaviour should be layered over the top: http://domscripting.com/blog/display/41 :) Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] an accessible question: server-side vs client-side validation
It should be made clear that there really is no such thing as Client Side Validation. What we are talking about here is client side form assistance. The goal of validation is to make 100% sure that the data you are recieving is of the correct type, and contains no extraneous data or security exploits BEFORE depositing it into a database or running other type sensitive functions across it. This is why you must perform validation on the server side, because that's the part you can control, so you can make sure from there that the data is correct. There is absolutely no certainty about whether the data you are receiving from the client is valid, regardless of what javascript you have running. The data could be coming from anywhere! not just desktop browsers with javascript. Thus, there can be no such thing as client side validation. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hello
yes its a buzzword mostly but from a design standpoint its also a genre. Thomas Thomassen wrote: Nothing. Web 2.0 is a buzzword. There's nothing truely new. It's often accociated with social networking. Sites where the users provide the content. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hello
Nothing. Web 2.0 is a buzzword. There's nothing truely new. It's often accociated with social networking. Sites where the users provide the content. - Original Message - From: Gitanjali To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] hello What is the difference between normal web template and web 2.0 templates??? On Feb 12, 2008 6:40 PM, Gitanjali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello aleagi Thank you very much.. On Feb 12, 2008 6:17 PM, aleagi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Gitanjali, In general, there's no rule to design to web 2.0. There's a myth concerning that you have to use shades, a lot of spaces between elements, large font sizes, and stuff... But, in general, the design must be clean and balanced. If this can help: http://www.templateworld.com/all_web_2.0_templates_1.html But, web 2.0 is more about structure of the pages like XHTML 1.0 Strict (or 1.1) without errors, CSS well structured, tableless, WCAG 1, 2 and 3... So, if your pages are already with this elements (well coded), the design will be a very easy thing to do. An advice: less is more! @;] Have a nice day! Regards, Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes - Nosce te ipsum - http://sapiensdc.com.br On Feb 12, 2008 10:26 AM, Gitanjali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello aleagi! i want to know what is web 2.0 and how to do a template using web 2.0 On Feb 12, 2008 5:45 PM, aleagi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Gitanjali, Help with what? Web 2.0 is a concept that has a lot of subjects to be discussed... What do you want to know about web 2.0? (If this exists at all). Regards, Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes - Nosce te ipsum - http://sapiensdc.com.br On Feb 12, 2008 10:07 AM, Gitanjali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all! Can anybody help me in web 2.0 please -- Regards. Gitanjali, Web Designer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Regards. Gitanjali, Web Designer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Regards. Gitanjali, Web Designer. -- Regards. Gitanjali, Web Designer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] tableless forms !!!
Hi , Could anyone tell me which is the best way to build a form without tables in w3c standards. I would really appreciate if you can provide a good referral link. J Thanks a ton in advance.. Thanking you Naveen Bhaskar *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] tableless forms !!!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi , Could anyone tell me which is the best way to build a form without tables in w3c standards. I would really appreciate if you can provide a good referral link. J Thanks a ton in advance.. Thanking you *Naveen Bhaskar * Please read the thread that's been going in the past week called Styling Forms Chris *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] tableless forms !!!
best to use are fieldsets and in the fieldsets you can either use p tags or lists (depending on what side you swing) On Feb 13, 2008 3:01 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi , Could anyone tell me which is the best way to build a form without tables in w3c standards. I would really appreciate if you can provide a good referral link. J Thanks a ton in advance.. Thanking you Naveen Bhaskar *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- JP2 Designs http://www.jp2designs.com http://www.germworks.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] tableless forms !!!
Plenty of references here: http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2006/11/11/css-based-forms-modern-solutions/ On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:01:26 +1000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi , Could anyone tell me which is the best way to build a form without tables in w3c standards. I would really appreciate if you can provide a good referral link. J Thanks a ton in advance.. Thanking you Naveen Bhaskar *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Tyssen Design http://www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] an accessible question: server-side vs client-side validation
Matt Fellows wrote: What John is saying is that AJAX is JavaScript yes, but it can also make calls to the server (using the XMLHttpRequest object) thus it validates using server-side technologies such as PHP. What you describe is what AJAX actually is; however, the term is often misused to include any action or change to the page which doesn't include a page refresh. Whether it's drag-and-drop, or popping up an error message (especially without a JavaScript alert box), that's AJAX, or at least according to most clients. It was my impression that Tee was making that error. So, whether the validation done before leaving the page was done client-side or server-side via (true) AJAX is irrelevant. What is most important is that the data is validated AFTER YOU LEAVE THE PAGE, even if it was already validated before. But what is misleading is that validation using AJAX can be disabled quite easily simply by disabling JavaScript rendering a nice big security hole. Even with JavaScript working perfectly, it's child's play to send whatever garbage (or worse) you want to the server. For example, there's a Firefox add-on, Tamper Data, which allows you to intercept and modify all calls to the server. So the issue of whether or not JavaScript is enabled is irrelevant to that nice big security hole. That is where the true server-side validation must double-check. And that's my bottom line. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hello
Hello Gitanjali, Well, in my opinion, web 2.0 templates is more clean, spaced, balanced and don't use elements like borders and heavy background images. For instance, http://google.com, is the most web 2.0 that I know. @:D Another ones: http://del.icio.us/ http://furl.net/ http://digg.com/ What is common between this sites? 1. Clean as possible designs; 2. There's a box: round corner! 3. dégradé (gradient); But, the most important of all: Less is more. There's a lot of sites that can inspire you to construct a web 2.0 template: http://csszengarden.com/ http://cssremix.com/ Regards, Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes - Nosce te ipsum - http://sapiensdc.com.br On Feb 12, 2008 11:21 AM, Gitanjali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is the difference between normal web template and web 2.0 templates??? On Feb 12, 2008 6:40 PM, Gitanjali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello aleagi Thank you very much.. On Feb 12, 2008 6:17 PM, aleagi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Gitanjali, In general, there's no rule to design to web 2.0. There's a myth concerning that you have to use shades, a lot of spaces between elements, large font sizes, and stuff... But, in general, the design must be clean and balanced. If this can help: http://www.templateworld.com/all_web_2.0_templates_1.html But, web 2.0 is more about structure of the pages like XHTML 1.0 Strict (or 1.1) without errors, CSS well structured, tableless, WCAG 1, 2 and 3... So, if your pages are already with this elements (well coded), the design will be a very easy thing to do. An advice: less is more! @;] Have a nice day! Regards, Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes - Nosce te ipsum - http://sapiensdc.com.br On Feb 12, 2008 10:26 AM, Gitanjali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello aleagi! i want to know what is web 2.0 and how to do a template using web 2.0 On Feb 12, 2008 5:45 PM, aleagi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Gitanjali, Help with what? Web 2.0 is a concept that has a lot of subjects to be discussed... What do you want to know about web 2.0? (If this exists at all). Regards, Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes - Nosce te ipsum - http://sapiensdc.com.br On Feb 12, 2008 10:07 AM, Gitanjali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all! Can anybody help me in web 2.0 please -- Regards. Gitanjali, Web Designer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Regards. Gitanjali, Web Designer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Regards. Gitanjali, Web Designer. -- Regards. Gitanjali, Web Designer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] an accessible question: server-side vs client-side validation
Hi Tee, It sure is, I have actually implemented it locally but a bit of testing is needed. It was more a test-of-prinicple kind of thing that actually turned out useful. So we don't move off topic however, I will reply to your email privately about the library instead of the WSG list. Cheers, Matt On 2/13/08, tee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Matt, thank you very much! Your JS library looks very interesting and I certainly will play with it. I see that the radio group has not been implemented, is this something coming out soon? The web form has radio buttons with multi-selection options. Cheers, tee On Feb 12, 2008, at 2:12 AM, Matt Fellows wrote: Hi Tee, What John is saying is that AJAX is JavaScript yes, but it can also make calls to the server (using the XMLHttpRequest object) thus it validates using server-side technologies such as PHP. But what is misleading is that validation using AJAX can be disabled quite easily simply by disabling JavaScript rendering a nice big security hole. That is where the true server-side validation must double-check. If you are interested, I wrote a small JS library that may be of use to you. It is a plug'n'play like JS file to automagically validate basic forms which is totally unobtrusive and promotes separation of concerns. To add extra fancy AJAX stuff is a matter of overriding a class and implementing your specific needs. I've still got a bit of work to do on it, but you can certainly get an idea. The url is: http://www.onegeek.com.au/articles/programming/javascript-form-validation.php I'd be happy to help you if you need, just shoot us through an email. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hello
Hello Dave, I supose you've said the right thing. The most important thing is to be closes as possible to web standards, accessibility and usability. For the visual, in my sight, there's only one rule to be followed: KISS: Keep It Simple Stupid. @:D Best Regards from hot as hell Brazil, Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes - Nosce te ipsum - http://sapiensdc.com.br On Feb 12, 2008 11:34 AM, Dave Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, think about the important factors first when creating a website. Build something that satisfies the requirements, provides the function/content required, is accessible, usable and uses the latest web standards and if the site falls into the web2.0 category then so be it, if not then really who cares? On 12/02/2008, russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have a read of these for the official definitions or descriptions of web 2.0: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/oreilly/tim/news/2005/09/30/what-is-web-20.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_2 A good slide show on the topic: http://www.andybudd.com/presentations/dcontruct05/ Or, sit down with some popcorn and watch a web 2.0 video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LzQIUANnHc HTH Russ on 12/2/08 11:07 PM, Gitanjali at wrote: Hello all! Can anybody help me in web 2.0 please *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hello
Have a read of these for the official definitions or descriptions of web 2.0: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/oreilly/tim/news/2005/09/30/what-is-web-20.h tml http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_2 A good slide show on the topic: http://www.andybudd.com/presentations/dcontruct05/ Or, sit down with some popcorn and watch a web 2.0 video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LzQIUANnHc HTH Russ on 12/2/08 11:07 PM, Gitanjali at wrote: Hello all! Can anybody help me in web 2.0 please *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hello
Hello aleagi Thank you very much.. On Feb 12, 2008 6:17 PM, aleagi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Gitanjali, In general, there's no rule to design to web 2.0. There's a myth concerning that you have to use shades, a lot of spaces between elements, large font sizes, and stuff... But, in general, the design must be clean and balanced. If this can help: http://www.templateworld.com/all_web_2.0_templates_1.html But, web 2.0 is more about structure of the pages like XHTML 1.0 Strict (or 1.1) without errors, CSS well structured, tableless, WCAG 1, 2 and 3... So, if your pages are already with this elements (well coded), the design will be a very easy thing to do. An advice: less is more! @;] Have a nice day! Regards, Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes - Nosce te ipsum - http://sapiensdc.com.br On Feb 12, 2008 10:26 AM, Gitanjali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello aleagi! i want to know what is web 2.0 and how to do a template using web 2.0 On Feb 12, 2008 5:45 PM, aleagi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Gitanjali, Help with what? Web 2.0 is a concept that has a lot of subjects to be discussed... What do you want to know about web 2.0? (If this exists at all). Regards, Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes - Nosce te ipsum - http://sapiensdc.com.br On Feb 12, 2008 10:07 AM, Gitanjali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all! Can anybody help me in web 2.0 please -- Regards. Gitanjali, Web Designer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Regards. Gitanjali, Web Designer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Regards. Gitanjali, Web Designer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hello
What is the difference between normal web template and web 2.0 templates??? On Feb 12, 2008 6:40 PM, Gitanjali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello aleagi Thank you very much.. On Feb 12, 2008 6:17 PM, aleagi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Gitanjali, In general, there's no rule to design to web 2.0. There's a myth concerning that you have to use shades, a lot of spaces between elements, large font sizes, and stuff... But, in general, the design must be clean and balanced. If this can help: http://www.templateworld.com/all_web_2.0_templates_1.html But, web 2.0 is more about structure of the pages like XHTML 1.0 Strict (or 1.1) without errors, CSS well structured, tableless, WCAG 1, 2 and 3... So, if your pages are already with this elements (well coded), the design will be a very easy thing to do. An advice: less is more! @;] Have a nice day! Regards, Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes - Nosce te ipsum - http://sapiensdc.com.br On Feb 12, 2008 10:26 AM, Gitanjali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello aleagi! i want to know what is web 2.0 and how to do a template using web 2.0 On Feb 12, 2008 5:45 PM, aleagi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Gitanjali, Help with what? Web 2.0 is a concept that has a lot of subjects to be discussed... What do you want to know about web 2.0? (If this exists at all). Regards, Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes - Nosce te ipsum - http://sapiensdc.com.br On Feb 12, 2008 10:07 AM, Gitanjali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all! Can anybody help me in web 2.0 please -- Regards. Gitanjali, Web Designer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Regards. Gitanjali, Web Designer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Regards. Gitanjali, Web Designer. -- Regards. Gitanjali, Web Designer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hello
Hello Gitanjali, In general, there's no rule to design to web 2.0. There's a myth concerning that you have to use shades, a lot of spaces between elements, large font sizes, and stuff... But, in general, the design must be clean and balanced. If this can help: http://www.templateworld.com/all_web_2.0_templates_1.html But, web 2.0 is more about structure of the pages like XHTML 1.0 Strict (or 1.1) without errors, CSS well structured, tableless, WCAG 1, 2 and 3... So, if your pages are already with this elements (well coded), the design will be a very easy thing to do. An advice: less is more! @;] Have a nice day! Regards, Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes - Nosce te ipsum - http://sapiensdc.com.br On Feb 12, 2008 10:26 AM, Gitanjali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello aleagi! i want to know what is web 2.0 and how to do a template using web 2.0 On Feb 12, 2008 5:45 PM, aleagi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Gitanjali, Help with what? Web 2.0 is a concept that has a lot of subjects to be discussed... What do you want to know about web 2.0? (If this exists at all). Regards, Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes - Nosce te ipsum - http://sapiensdc.com.br On Feb 12, 2008 10:07 AM, Gitanjali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all! Can anybody help me in web 2.0 please -- Regards. Gitanjali, Web Designer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Regards. Gitanjali, Web Designer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hello
Actually i want to know wat is web 2.0, what is the difference between web designing and web 2.0, how to design a template using web 2.0 etc.. is it a software or an application?? should v download det software? if yes den from where? On Feb 12, 2008 5:50 PM, varun krishnan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Gitanjali, What help you want with Web 2.0 ? Are you a general web designer moving into Web2.0 Design ? regards, Varun Web Technologist http://varunkrish.com On Feb 12, 2008 5:37 PM, Gitanjali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all! Can anybody help me in web 2.0 please -- Regards. Gitanjali, Web Designer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Regards. Gitanjali, Web Designer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] tableless forms !!!
Yes.. I got the solution... thanks guys... Regards Naveen bhaskar -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Faulds Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 12:13 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] tableless forms !!! Plenty of references here: http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2006/11/11/css-based-forms-modern-soluti ons/ On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:01:26 +1000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi , Could anyone tell me which is the best way to build a form without tables in w3c standards. I would really appreciate if you can provide a good referral link. J Thanks a ton in advance.. Thanking you Naveen Bhaskar *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Tyssen Design http://www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hello
Hello aleagi! i want to know what is web 2.0 and how to do a template using web 2.0 On Feb 12, 2008 5:45 PM, aleagi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Gitanjali, Help with what? Web 2.0 is a concept that has a lot of subjects to be discussed... What do you want to know about web 2.0? (If this exists at all). Regards, Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes - Nosce te ipsum - http://sapiensdc.com.br On Feb 12, 2008 10:07 AM, Gitanjali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all! Can anybody help me in web 2.0 please -- Regards. Gitanjali, Web Designer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Regards. Gitanjali, Web Designer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hello
Hey Gitanjali, What help you want with Web 2.0 ? Are you a general web designer moving into Web2.0 Design ? regards, Varun Web Technologist http://varunkrish.com On Feb 12, 2008 5:37 PM, Gitanjali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all! Can anybody help me in web 2.0 please -- Regards. Gitanjali, Web Designer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hello
Hello Gitanjali, Help with what? Web 2.0 is a concept that has a lot of subjects to be discussed... What do you want to know about web 2.0? (If this exists at all). Regards, Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes - Nosce te ipsum - http://sapiensdc.com.br On Feb 12, 2008 10:07 AM, Gitanjali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all! Can anybody help me in web 2.0 please -- Regards. Gitanjali, Web Designer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] hello
Hello all! Can anybody help me in web 2.0 please -- Regards. Gitanjali, Web Designer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Decorative bolding
if the intention is give emphasis to this word use em or if is to give stronger emphasis use strong 2008/2/12, Thomas Thomassen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The branding might change. I'm in favour of span with a class, like: span class=logo. - Original Message - From: Mike at Green-Beast.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 4:42 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Decorative bolding Do I: a. Use the b tag, or... b. Use a span tag and bold it using CSS? I'd use span, b is deprecated Actually it's not deprecated, not in HTML 4, 5 or XHTML 1. If ever there was a case for the use the 'b' element, this might be a good one. --- Strong is important so, as Rachel stated, it isn't appropriate. A span is fine as others have pointed out, but the b element might also be a sound choice in this case. The b element is a highlight of sorts. That is its semantic value, its role as an element in a web document. From HTML 5: blockquote The b element represents a span of text to be stylistically offset from the normal prose without conveying any extra importance, such as key words in a document abstract, product names in a review, or other spans of text whose typical typographic presentation is boldened. /blockquote It is bold without the importance, at least that is its default rendering. Remember, just because it is bold might not necessarily mean that it is a style. All elements have a default rendering. Strong is bold and so are headings. They all have a role, and we don't think of those as a style. A better way to answer the original question might be to ask: Do you want the value retained in the mark-up, or is it purely a style that painted onto the presentational layer? Or, worded another way, should the boldened treatment exist without styles? If it should, then the b might be best. Otherwise I heartily agreee that the span element should be used. Respectfully, Mike Cherim *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- []'s - Rochester Oliveira http://webbemfeita.com/ Viva a Web-Bem-Feita Web Designer Curitiba - PR - Brasil *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hello
Also, think about the important factors first when creating a website. Build something that satisfies the requirements, provides the function/content required, is accessible, usable and uses the latest web standards and if the site falls into the web2.0 category then so be it, if not then really who cares? On 12/02/2008, russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have a read of these for the official definitions or descriptions of web 2.0: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/oreilly/tim/news/2005/09/30/what-is-web-20.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_2 A good slide show on the topic: http://www.andybudd.com/presentations/dcontruct05/ Or, sit down with some popcorn and watch a web 2.0 video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LzQIUANnHc HTH Russ on 12/2/08 11:07 PM, Gitanjali at wrote: Hello all! Can anybody help me in web 2.0 please *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] hello
Basically, there is no difference. Web 2 is basically just marketing-speak, loosely meaning The Currently Fashionable Thing Regards, Mike From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gitanjali Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 1:21 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] hello What is the difference between normal web template and web 2.0 templates??? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
