Re: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread Tate Johnson

On 04/03/2008, at 2:34 PM, John Hancock wrote:

How can you disagree with a capability? Isn't it a feature to be  
used if you so choose? For intranets etc that you can force this  
behaviour can actually be a good thing, but if you don't like it,  
you don't have to use it!


I agree with your latter point. However, I fear that it protects lazy  
developers who refuse to adopt standards based practices. That said,  
the more and more you look at the community on the whole; it seems  
less ignorant today than at the start of the decade.


Overall, it's a compromise that I'm willing to accept.


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RE: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread Patrick Lauke
 Tate Johnson

 I agree with your latter point. However, I fear that it 
 protects lazy  
 developers who refuse to adopt standards based practices. That said,  
 the more and more you look at the community on the whole; it seems  
 less ignorant today than at the start of the decade.

The problem is that those lazy or ignorant developers are *not* actually
part of the community...they may not even realise that there *is* a community.

P

Patrick H. Lauke
Web Editor
Enterprise  Development
University of Salford
Room 113, Faraday House
Salford, Greater Manchester
M5 4WT
UK

T +44 (0) 161 295 4779
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.salford.ac.uk

A GREATER MANCHESTER UNIVERSITY  


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread Christian Snodgrass
That's very true. Those that our party of the community are those that 
are aware and follow standards. And, I do disagree with compatibility 
indefinitely, such as having IE5's, or even IE6's rendering engine 
within IE8, because that does cause bloat. But, I can understand having 
IE7s, because not every developer is going to even feasibly be able to 
update all of their updates in between the beta of IE8 and the actual 
release, and even then it might completely update their site for when 
IE8 comes out. Likewise, when IE9 comes out, if it's rendering 
capabilities change for HTML compared to IE8, I would expect IE9 to 
contain IE8's rendering engine, but likely drop IE7 (depending how 
quickly they pushed it out). You have to have some 
backwards-compatibility, but you have to eventually drop some of it if 
you ever want to progress.


Patrick Lauke wrote:

Tate Johnson



  
I agree with your latter point. However, I fear that it 
protects lazy  
developers who refuse to adopt standards based practices. That said,  
the more and more you look at the community on the whole; it seems  
less ignorant today than at the start of the decade.



The problem is that those lazy or ignorant developers are *not* actually
part of the community...they may not even realise that there *is* a community.

P

Patrick H. Lauke
Web Editor
Enterprise  Development
University of Salford
Room 113, Faraday House
Salford, Greater Manchester
M5 4WT
UK

T +44 (0) 161 295 4779
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.salford.ac.uk

A GREATER MANCHESTER UNIVERSITY  



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--

Christian Snodgrass
Azure Ronin Web Design
http://www.arwebdesign.net/ http://www.arwebdesign.net
Phone: 859.816.7955



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[WSG] pls help me

2008-03-05 Thread Gitanjali
Hello

Im using Spry validations in my site.

The validations r not working for asp pages in IE.

All browsers r supporting html pages even IE too.

But IE is not supporting validations for asp pages.

Cud anybody solve this problem for me.

Thank u.
-- 
Regards.
Gitanjali,
Web Designer.


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Re: [WSG] pls help me

2008-03-05 Thread Michael Horowitz
You would need to give URL's and specific examples of the problem.  Are 
there web standards issues or just javascript not working.  If it is a 
problem with javascript you should find a javascript forum such as

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/JavaScript_Official/

Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079



Gitanjali wrote:

Hello

Im using Spry validations in my site.

The validations r not working for asp pages in IE.

All browsers r supporting html pages even IE too.

But IE is not supporting validations for asp pages.

Cud anybody solve this problem for me.

Thank u.
--
Regards.
Gitanjali,
Web Designer.

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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread Patrick H. Lauke

Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm
Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if it can 
run standalone...


P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread aleagi
Yeah, I'm afraid to install it and kick IE6 and 7 out of my box!

Anyone with the guts to do it? @:D

Regards.
Aleagi
.

On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
  
 http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm
  Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if it can
  run standalone...

  P
  --
  Patrick H. Lauke
  __
  re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
  [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
  www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
  http://redux.deviantart.com
  __
  Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
  http://webstandards.org/
  __




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RE: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread Paul Bennett
The IE7 beta worked as a standalone until the first Release Candidate came out. 
I presume IE8 will do the same.

Am trying now, but you need to have a fully patched machine (I'm behind a 
firewall so our patches are usually pushed out a bit later ) to install it - so 
be warned that the installer may require security patch updates to complete.

Hope to report soon on... :)  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 8:26 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news

Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm
Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if it can 
run standalone...

P
-- 
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread Thomas Thomassen
I got a spare computer to test this on. Thanks for the heads up about the 
availiblity of the beta.



- Original Message - 
From: aleagi [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news


Yeah, I'm afraid to install it and kick IE6 and 7 out of my box!

Anyone with the guts to do it? @:D

Regards.
Aleagi
.

On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm
 Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if it can
 run standalone...

 P
 --
 Patrick H. Lauke
 __
 re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
 [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
 www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
 http://redux.deviantart.com
 __
 Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
 http://webstandards.org/
 __




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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread aleagi
Ok, I'm installing it...

Wish me luck! @:D

Regards,
aleagi
.

On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Paul Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The IE7 beta worked as a standalone until the first Release Candidate came 
 out. I presume IE8 will do the same.

  Am trying now, but you need to have a fully patched machine (I'm behind a 
 firewall so our patches are usually pushed out a bit later ) to install it - 
 so be warned that the installer may require security patch updates to 
 complete.

  Hope to report soon on... :)


  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick H. 
 Lauke
  Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 8:26 AM
  To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
  Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news



 Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
  
 http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm
  Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if it can
  run standalone...

  P
  --
  Patrick H. Lauke
  __
  re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
  [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
  www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
  http://redux.deviantart.com
  __
  Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
  http://webstandards.org/
  __


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-- 
Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes
-
Nosce te ipsum
-
http://sapiensdc.com.br


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread aleagi
Ok I got it installed...

Since I don't had the last updates in my machine, IE8 forced me to do it.

And I did...

Now I can't have IE6, it's updated!

I have IE7 standalone running properlly.

I'll digg to find a IE6 standalone version that worked with Ie8!

For the rest, everything looks fine.

Good lucky to you all!

Regards,
Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes
-
Nosce te ipsum
-
http://sapiensdc.com.br


On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 5:00 PM, Thomas Thomassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I got a spare computer to test this on. Thanks for the heads up about the
  availiblity of the beta.



  - Original Message -
  From: aleagi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org

 Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 8:32 PM
  Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news



 Yeah, I'm afraid to install it and kick IE6 and 7 out of my box!

  Anyone with the guts to do it? @:D

  Regards.
  Aleagi
  .

  On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  wrote:


  Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
  
   
 http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm
Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if it can
run standalone...
  
P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__
  
  
  
  
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RE: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread Paul Bennett
2 restarts later I have found the following:

* it overwrites IE7
* it doesn't render anything in the tabs!
* it has an 'emulate IE7' button (??)

Best to hold off for now. If I get it sorted I'll let you all know.

Paul 

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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread Thomas Thomassen
IE8 does provide a mode switch to IE7. There's a new button next to the home 
button. Though I'm not surpriced it nuked your IE6 installation.


I gave it a go and tried some of my testcases where I make heavy use of 
selectors and other cutting edge CSS features. Can't say I was impressed. I 
had actually hoped for more. I thought they'd pushed it quite a bit further, 
but it's looking pretty much like IE7, except that there seems to be less 
quirks. One thing I noticed was some oddness with :hover behaviour quite a 
few times. And my unordered list with square bullets now displays as 
quetsionmakrs with a border around it.



- Original Message - 
From: tee [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news



I decided to be the brave and die first IE's victim :-)

Very Bad! my IE 6 is gone, IE 7 standalone is working. The
installation took over 15 minutes.

How do they expect we test the browser by disable the the previous
version(s) ??



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tee
On Mar 5, 2008, at 11:32 AM, aleagi wrote:


Yeah, I'm afraid to install it and kick IE6 and 7 out of my box!

Anyone with the guts to do it? @:D

Regards.
Aleagi
.

On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm
Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if
it can
run standalone...

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__




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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread Viktor
As far as I know the emulate IE7 button forces the browser to render 
pages like IE7... [Microsoft also added a meta tag to choose which 
rendering version your visitors will use during their visit]


Paul Bennett wrote:

2 restarts later I have found the following:

* it overwrites IE7
* it doesn't render anything in the tabs!
* it has an 'emulate IE7' button (??)

Best to hold off for now. If I get it sorted I'll let you all know.

Paul 


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RE: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread Jason Gray
I gave it a go...  (thanks for the link).. Installed fine...
But I had to reinstall my Logitech mouse drivers...
I love having to navgiate web pages using the keyboard. 
Just goes to show how dependant we are on the mouse!



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of aleagi
Sent: Thursday, 6 March 2008 7:13 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news

Ok I got it installed...

Since I don't had the last updates in my machine, IE8 forced me to do it.

And I did...

Now I can't have IE6, it's updated!

I have IE7 standalone running properlly.

I'll digg to find a IE6 standalone version that worked with Ie8!

For the rest, everything looks fine.

Good lucky to you all!

Regards,
Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes
-
Nosce te ipsum
-
http://sapiensdc.com.br


On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 5:00 PM, Thomas Thomassen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
 I got a spare computer to test this on. Thanks for the heads up about the
  availiblity of the beta.



  - Original Message -
  From: aleagi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org

 Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 8:32 PM
  Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news



 Yeah, I'm afraid to install it and kick IE6 and 7 out of my box!

  Anyone with the guts to do it? @:D

  Regards.
  Aleagi
  .

  On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  wrote:


  Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
  
  
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install
.htm
Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if it
can
run standalone...
  
P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re.dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__
  
  
  
  
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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread Thomas Thomassen
p.s. the testcase I'm working on is here: 
http://thomthom.net/storage/markup/html/sitenav/ (NOTE: very rough draft!)
but if you use it to compare IE8 with Firefox2/3, Opera 9 and Safari 3 you 
see that IE8 still got a long way to go. :(



- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Thomassen [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news


IE8 does provide a mode switch to IE7. There's a new button next to the 
home button. Though I'm not surpriced it nuked your IE6 installation.


I gave it a go and tried some of my testcases where I make heavy use of 
selectors and other cutting edge CSS features. Can't say I was impressed. 
I had actually hoped for more. I thought they'd pushed it quite a bit 
further, but it's looking pretty much like IE7, except that there seems to 
be less quirks. One thing I noticed was some oddness with :hover behaviour 
quite a few times. And my unordered list with square bullets now displays 
as quetsionmakrs with a border around it.



- Original Message - 
From: tee [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news



I decided to be the brave and die first IE's victim :-)

Very Bad! my IE 6 is gone, IE 7 standalone is working. The
installation took over 15 minutes.

How do they expect we test the browser by disable the the previous
version(s) ??



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tee
On Mar 5, 2008, at 11:32 AM, aleagi wrote:


Yeah, I'm afraid to install it and kick IE6 and 7 out of my box!

Anyone with the guts to do it? @:D

Regards.
Aleagi
.

On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm
Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if
it can
run standalone...

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__




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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread Michael Horowitz

Setup a virtual machine and do it there.  Much safer.

Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079



aleagi wrote:

Yeah, I'm afraid to install it and kick IE6 and 7 out of my box!

Anyone with the guts to do it? @:D

Regards.
Aleagi
.

On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
 
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm
 Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if it can
 run standalone...

 P
 --
 Patrick H. Lauke
 __
 re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
 [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
 www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
 http://redux.deviantart.com
 __
 Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
 http://webstandards.org/
 __




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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread Patrick H. Lauke

Patrick H. Lauke wrote:

Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm 

Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if it can 
run standalone...


Ok, took the plunge. As already noted, it overwrites IE7, but can 
emulate it with a new button (which will probably go in the final 
release). Tredosoft's older IE versions seem unaffected, though I 
haven't done extensive retesting of them.

http://tredosoft.com/Multiple_IE

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread Mike at Green-Beast.com

Hi Thomas,


One thing I noticed was some oddness with :hover behaviour


I remember when IE7 came out (RC1 I think) I had to add [1] a:hover {} to 
the head of my documents else it didn't work at all. I added it within my 
@import statement with empty braces, like this:


style type=text/css media=screen
@import mystylesheet.css; a:hover { }
/style

I really have top wonder if this is more of the same. What oddness are you 
seeing?


I can't say I'll be installing it too soon. I did that with 7 and it just 
led to a bunch of changes (bug fixes) that I didn't need to make by the time 
RC2 came out.


Cheers.
Mike 




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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread James Ellis
Agreed, plenty of virtualisation software out there that makes problems like 
the ones reported just go away.
In most VM's you could take a snapshot of Windows prior to install of IE8 then 
roll back to that snapshot when you are done with IE8 or until a workable 
standalone comes through. For virtualbox, for instance, you would take a 
snapshot.

Another option is if you have a valid Windows license to just run up a 
dedicated IE8 virtual machine.

HTH
J



On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 08:38:02 am Michael Horowitz wrote:
 Setup a virtual machine and do it there.  Much safer.

 Michael Horowitz
 Your Computer Consultant
 http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
 561-394-9079

 aleagi wrote:
  Yeah, I'm afraid to install it and kick IE6 and 7 out of my box!
 
  Anyone with the guts to do it? @:D
 
  Regards.
  Aleagi
  .
 


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread Patrick H. Lauke

Michael Horowitz wrote:

Setup a virtual machine and do it there.  Much safer.


If you have spare WinXP installs, that is.

Sadly a bit late, but I stumbled across these ready-made VirtualPC 
images from MS

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=21EABB90-958F-4B64-B5F1-73D0A413C8EFdisplaylang=en

(time-bombed for July 2008)

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread James Ellis
I had this crazy idea that MS would allow developers to implement something 
like this so we could forget about the various furbar'd rendering engines MS 
produces and just run with something that works for those of us who code to, 
or try to code to, the various standards:

meta name=engine content=webkit /

or at least allow us to stick in a HTTP response header for the client:

X-HTML-Rendering-Engine: webkit

Given the webkit (http://webkit.org/) BSD/LGPL licensing... although I 
wouldn't see myself as a licensing expert and I doubt MS would want to 
implement an open source license, but a man can dream.

At least we suffering developers could tell IE what engine to render the page 
with, and IE lovers can still have their IE chrome :D

Cheers
James

On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 02:25:25 pm Chris Knowles wrote:
 We've decided that IE8 will, by default, interpret web content in the
 most standards compliant way it can. This decision is a change from what
 we've posted previously.

 http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/03/03/microsoft-s-interoperability-pr
inciples-and-ie8.aspx




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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread Thomas Thomassen
Some of the oddness can use experienced here: 
http://thomthom.net/storage/markup/html/sitenav/
In IE8 the drop down menu of the red nav bar will hide when the cursor moves 
over the menu where the headers are below.


Also, the table of content will not drop down.
In my CSS code for the TOC I have
#toc:hover,
#toc:target
{
 height: auto;
}

however, if I remove #toc:target and only have
#toc:hover
{
 height: auto;
}
Then it works fine.

And you will also see that the tr:hover activates differently from other 
browsers.



- Original Message - 
From: Mike at Green-Beast.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news



Hi Thomas,


One thing I noticed was some oddness with :hover behaviour


I remember when IE7 came out (RC1 I think) I had to add [1] a:hover {} to 
the head of my documents else it didn't work at all. I added it within my 
@import statement with empty braces, like this:


style type=text/css media=screen
@import mystylesheet.css; a:hover { }
/style

I really have top wonder if this is more of the same. What oddness are 
you seeing?


I can't say I'll be installing it too soon. I did that with 7 and it just 
led to a bunch of changes (bug fixes) that I didn't need to make by the 
time RC2 came out.


Cheers.
Mike


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Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction

2008-03-05 Thread dwain
On 3/4/08, Keith Steinacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I wouldn't pay much attention to anyone that says they can solve all of
 your site's problems for 1 set fee.


why not? i charge by the page and do the seo myself.  there's a free class
at: http://www.gnc-web-creations.com/seo-optimization.htm

dwain




-- 
dwain alford
The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression.  Kandinsky


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread Ben Dodson
I've just installed and it seems a lot better than IE7 - A few pages I have
that have differences between IE7 and firefox now render exactly like
firefox which is good :-)

The switch to IE7 mode is a good bonus to have but there are a few weird
things such as the url in the address bar is always greyed out apart from
the domain name which is a bit weird (and I can't quite understand why
they'd put that in).

I need to give it a full testing but it seems quite good so far!

Ben

-- 
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
w: http://bendodson.com/


On 05/03/2008, Jason Gray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I gave it a go...  (thanks for the link).. Installed fine...
 But I had to reinstall my Logitech mouse drivers...
 I love having to navgiate web pages using the keyboard.
 Just goes to show how dependant we are on the mouse!




 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

 Behalf Of aleagi
 Sent: Thursday, 6 March 2008 7:13 AM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org

 Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news


 Ok I got it installed...

 Since I don't had the last updates in my machine, IE8 forced me to do it.

 And I did...

 Now I can't have IE6, it's updated!

 I have IE7 standalone running properlly.

 I'll digg to find a IE6 standalone version that worked with Ie8!

 For the rest, everything looks fine.

 Good lucky to you all!

 Regards,
 Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes
 -
 Nosce te ipsum
 -
 http://sapiensdc.com.br


 On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 5:00 PM, Thomas Thomassen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
  I got a spare computer to test this on. Thanks for the heads up about
 the
   availiblity of the beta.
 
 
 
   - Original Message -

   From: aleagi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 

  Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 8:32 PM
   Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news
 
 
 

  Yeah, I'm afraid to install it and kick IE6 and 7 out of my box!
 
   Anyone with the guts to do it? @:D
 
   Regards.
   Aleagi
   .
 
   On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Patrick H. Lauke 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   wrote:
 
 
   Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
   
   

 http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install
 .htm
 Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if it
 can
 run standalone...
   
 P
 --
 Patrick H. Lauke
 __
 re.dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
 [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
 www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
 http://redux.deviantart.com
 __
 Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
 http://webstandards.org/
 __
   
   
   
   
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RE: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread Thierry Koblentz
 On Behalf Of Chris Knowles
 Subject: [WSG] IE8 news
 
 We've decided that IE8 will, by default, interpret web content in the
 most standards compliant way it can. This decision is a change from what
 we've posted previously.
 
 http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/03/03/microsoft-s-interoperability-
 principles-and-ie8.aspx

I've been running it and I tried a few things. imho, many people will regret
that MS changed its mind about ie8's default behavior...

-- 
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com






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RE: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread Paul Bennett
Hi all,

Sorry for the quick-fire posts. This just in:
* if it doesn’t render when you start up the browser, you can open a new tab 
and then switch back to the first tab - this seems to 'wake up' the rendering 
engine
* the 'emulate IE7' button allows you to switch between IE7 and IE8 rendering 
engines, but you do have to restart the browser to do this. It seems that 
rather than overwriting IE7, it uses the same base chrome but does allow the 
rendering engine switch.

:)
Paul 

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RE: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread Thierry Koblentz
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ben Dodson

 The switch to IE7 mode is a good bonus to have but there are a few weird
things such as the url in the address bar is always greyed out apart from 
 the domain name which is a bit weird (and I can't quite understand why
they'd put that in).
 
 I need to give it a full testing but it seems quite good so far!

I think it has issue with thext box (big issues)

-- 
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com








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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread aleagi
Ok, IE6 standalone from EVOLT are NOT browsing at all!

It starts but ou can't navigate with it!
http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/browsers.evolt.org/browsers/ie/32bit/standalone/ie6eolas_nt.zip

I got IE6 back from Multiple IEs...
http://tredosoft.com/Multiple_IE

I've installed it all and (apparently) it worked!

I can't access the version window since it's updated by IE8.

So, If you really, really want to teste it (like me) here's the
solution to have IE6 (and lower) versions running property with IE8.

For IE7 Standalone, try this:
http://tredosoft.com/IE7_standalone

Good lucky to you all!

I just wish our nightmare with hacks, conditional coments and all the
debug time is over!

Regards,
Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes
-
Nosce te ipsum
-
http://sapiensdc.com.br



On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 5:04 PM, tee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I decided to be the brave and die first IE's victim :-)

  Very Bad! my IE 6 is gone, IE 7 standalone is working. The
  installation took over 15 minutes.

  How do they expect we test the browser by disable the the previous
  version(s) ??





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  tee
  On Mar 5, 2008, at 11:32 AM, aleagi wrote:

   Yeah, I'm afraid to install it and kick IE6 and 7 out of my box!
  
   Anyone with the guts to do it? @:D
  
   Regards.
   Aleagi
   .
  
   On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
   Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
   
 http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm
   Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if
   it can
   run standalone...
  
   P
   --
   Patrick H. Lauke
   __
   re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
   [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
   www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
   http://redux.deviantart.com
   __
   Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
   http://webstandards.org/
   __
  
  
  
  
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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-05 Thread aleagi
Yeap, it sucks!

I'll find a solution to that!

Regards,
Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes
-
Nosce te ipsum
-
http://sapiensdc.com.br


On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 5:04 PM, tee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I decided to be the brave and die first IE's victim :-)

  Very Bad! my IE 6 is gone, IE 7 standalone is working. The
  installation took over 15 minutes.

  How do they expect we test the browser by disable the the previous
  version(s) ??





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  tee
  On Mar 5, 2008, at 11:32 AM, aleagi wrote:

   Yeah, I'm afraid to install it and kick IE6 and 7 out of my box!
  
   Anyone with the guts to do it? @:D
  
   Regards.
   Aleagi
   .
  
   On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
   Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
   
 http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm
   Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if
   it can
   run standalone...
  
   P
   --
   Patrick H. Lauke
   __
   re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
   [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
   www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
   http://redux.deviantart.com
   __
   Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
   http://webstandards.org/
   __
  
  
  
  
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Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction

2008-03-05 Thread Keith Steinacher
What I meant by 1 set fee was I'll get you top rankings on all search
engines and fix all your woes for $99.99!!

Charging by the page or per hour (as I do it) is more legitimate.  Some
projects you can't really charge by the page though.  I have one client
who's site has 600,000 pages or more.  I'm not going to go through it page
by page.  At that point it becomes necessary to make the SEO of a site more
dynamic.  While anyone can learn how to do SEO from a book or an online
class, it doesn't necessary mean that they can take your site (of any size)
and make it number 1 for a canned fee.  Anyone that tells you that is not
to be trusted.

On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 6:07 PM, dwain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 On 3/4/08, Keith Steinacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I wouldn't pay much attention to anyone that says they can solve all of
  your site's problems for 1 set fee.


 why not? i charge by the page and do the seo myself.  there's a free class
 at: http://www.gnc-web-creations.com/seo-optimization.htm

 dwain




 --
 dwain alford
 The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
 for his inner impulse must find suitable expression.  Kandinsky
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-- 
Keith Steinacher
Chief Bottle-Washer


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[WSG] Links are not hot in ie8

2008-03-05 Thread Thierry Koblentz
I think it's going to be a fun ride...

http://tjkdesign.com/test/ie8/links.asp

-- 
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com






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Re: [WSG] Links are not hot in ie8

2008-03-05 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun

Thierry Koblentz wrote:

I think it's going to be a fun ride...


I really don't think it's time to saddle up yet :-)


http://tjkdesign.com/test/ie8/links.asp


So, they still have those stacking-bugs to sort out.

Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no


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Re: [WSG] Links are not hot in ie8

2008-03-05 Thread Thomas Thomassen
Yup, I'm seeing odd :hover behaviour as well in some of my own testcases. 
Launch them bug reports at them. https://connect.microsoft.com/IE
Let make sure MS is told about the problems now early. If not we'll be stuck 
with this for sure afterwards.



- Original Message - 
From: Gunlaug Sørtun [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 7:22 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Links are not hot in ie8



Thierry Koblentz wrote:

I think it's going to be a fun ride...


I really don't think it's time to saddle up yet :-)


http://tjkdesign.com/test/ie8/links.asp


So, they still have those stacking-bugs to sort out.

Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no


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