Re: [WSG] The correct way of placing a swf file into a XHTML webpage

2008-03-26 Thread Dory
Thank you--

It looks like we are going with the SWFObject 2.0 static method.

The http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay article was also
helpful in that it explained the process.

Do you know if the alternative content can be picked up by a text reader?

Thank you,
Dory

On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 10:20 PM, Melissa Forrest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 use javascript to insert the flash, which will also auto activate the
  flash in IE and do some flash player detection

  something like swfobject would do the trick
  http://code.google.com/p/swfobject/



  On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Mahendran Venkatesan
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Hi Dory,
  
   You can use 'object' tag for embedding flash files.
  
   Refer this link: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay
  
  
   Thanks!
   Venkatesan M
  
   On 3/25/08, Dory [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello,
   
I am currently working on a site that has a small flash file for
   decorative purposes. I inherited the site and want to make it web standards
   compliant. The problem: the XHTML code in the site is using the embed tag
   for the flash. Is there a way to place swf files into a XHTML webpage that
   will allow the page to validate? (I believe the embed tag has been
   deprecated.)
   
Any links to references would be appreciated.
   
Thank you,
Dory Ptak
   
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[WSG] Print stylesheet and long urls

2008-03-26 Thread Sarah Peeke

Hi all,

I am putting together a print stylesheet for an online newsletter that contains 
quite a number of urls, some of which are very long.

In order to make the printed version of the newsletter meaningful I have 
considered using:

#content a:after { content:  ( attr(href) ) ; }

to show the urls after the links. This is fine, except for the really long 
urls, which:

1. are really ugly
2. make readability of the newsletter poor
3. do not break in Firefox (at least on the Mac), and are therefore truncated, 
rendering them useless.

I have found an article entitled: Improving Link Display for Print:

http://www.alistapart.com/articles/improvingprint/

which overcomes points 1. and 2. above, but not point 3.

However, this is only useful if JavaScript is enabled.

Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Otherwise I guess I'm going to have to do away with the links altogether :(

Cheers,

--
Sarah Peeke
XERT Communications
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype: s.peeke
Website: http://xert.com.au/
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahpeeke
Geofeat International: http://geofeat.com/


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Re: [WSG] Semantic markup for a person's name or business name

2008-03-26 Thread Thomas Thomassen
Semantic markup for a person's name or business nameThe ADDRESS element is 
intended to provide contact information for the author of the HTML document, 
not any address.
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#h-7.5.6

-Thom
  - Original Message - 
  From: Cole Kuryakin 
  To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 5:56 AM
  Subject: [WSG] Semantic markup for a person's name or business name


  Hello All -

  I've been reading a book by Andy Clarke which has a few pages related to 
micro-formats.

  He uses the example of marking up an address tag similar to the below using 
classes (note that br's are mine for formatting):


  address

  span class=street101 Some Street, /span

  span class=subdivisionSome Sub division/spanbr /

  span class=cityAlameda, /span

  span class=stateCalifornia, /span

  span class=postal94501/spanbr /

  span class=countryUnited States of America/span

  /address

  But. what if you want to include a person's name (or a business name) ABOVE 
the address tag? The only thing that comes immediately to mind would be 
citeJohn Smith/cite but that doesn't seem correct. Or, should one use an 
additional span above the address block like this: span 
class=contactNameJohn Smith/span?


  So the whole thing might look like this:


  span class=contactNameJohn Smith/span

  address

  span class=street101 Some Street, /span

  span class=subdivisionSome Sub division/spanbr /

  span class=cityAlameda, /span

  span class=stateCalifornia, /span

  span class=postal94501/spanbr /

  span class=countryUnited States of America/span

  /address



  Interested in all opinions as well as if there is any current standard 
which addresses this particular issue. 


  Cole



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Re: [WSG] Semantic markup for a person's name or business name

2008-03-26 Thread Michael MD
Semantic markup for a person's name or business nameI think the address tag 
is specifically intended for the author contact for the page itself (and 
only used once on a page).


for hCard markup see this page: http://microformats.org/wiki/hCard

If you want tools that use microformats (such as the Operator Firefox 
plugin) to see it you should use hCard property names for the classnames

and enclose the whole thing in an element with the class vcard.

fn
post-office-box
extended-address
street-address
locality
region
postal-code
country-name
tel

use fn for the person's name  (fn is required for a valid hCard)

eg: span class=fnJohn Smith/span

street-address instead of street
...etc...

If you need to put something outside the vcard container that needs to be 
seen as part of that hCard (eg for something that is repeated), you can use 
include-pattern - http://microformats.org/wiki/include-pattern.
(only if you really need to - this does rely on parsers having DOM-like 
functions)


If you just want to mark up an address rather than a contact with a name 
there is also adr - http://microformats.org/wiki/adr












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RE: [WSG] Semantic markup for a person's name or business name

2008-03-26 Thread Cole Kuryakin
Thanks to all for their input on this issue.

The hCard link within microformats.org was very helpful.

Two follow-on question though:

1. What does the v and h stand for in regards to vCard and hCard,
and:

2. Aside from it's semantic nature, is there really any functional use for
formatting data using microformats? I mean, if your format various content
using microformat standards - as they currently exist - is this
information then usable/parse-able on different devices? Or is the use of
microformats simply an effort to make specific content blocks (content
details, calendars, etc.) semantically coherent in html documents?

Thanks to all again.

Cole



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Re: [WSG] Semantic markup for a person's name or business name

2008-03-26 Thread Rob Crowther

Cole Kuryakin wrote:

2. Aside from it's semantic nature, is there really any functional use for
formatting data using microformats? 


For some practical examples of doing stuff with hCard:

Online service to translate hCard into vCard (ie. put directly into your 
contacts application:


http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/

Operator Firefox Add-on to make use of microformatted content from 
directly within the browser:


https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4106

Example code for using hCards to fill in forms:

http://lib.omnia-computing.de/hcardmapper

Also, Technorati make heavy use of microformats (they were the 
originators of several of them):


http://kitchen.technorati.com/search

Rob


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Re: [WSG] INS and DEL in lists

2008-03-26 Thread Stuart Foulstone
Hi,

No, I mean User Agent

Quote from W3C:

INS and DEL are used to markup sections of the document that have been
inserted or deleted with respect to a different version of a document
(e.g., in draft legislation where lawmakers need to view the changes).

... User agents should render inserted and deleted text in ways that make
the change obvious. For instance, inserted text may appear in a special
font, deleted text may not be shown at all or be shown as struck-through
or with special markings, etc.



On Tue, March 25, 2008 2:13 pm, Svip wrote:
 Don't you mean server sided rather than browser/user agent?

 /Svip

 On 25/03/2008, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

  RE:

 When I hid the del using display: hidden; the list would render
  something like this


 I can't say I've ever felt the need to use these tags, but isn't hiding
  the content supposed to be the job of the browser/user agent - rather
 than
  you using CSS.



  On Sun, March 23, 2008 12:43 pm, Thomas Thomassen wrote:
   I was working on some examples for the use of del and ins.
   
 http://www.thomthom.net/blog/2008/03/document-history-viewer-making-use-of-del-and-ins/
  
   As I was working on this I wanted to mark up a list where items had
 been
   added and removed. That's when I realised that you can't wrap up li
 dt
   or dd in del or ins elements because ul, ol and dl only
 allows
   list items as their direct child.
  
   The del and ins then have to be wrapped inside the list item.
  
   ul
 liItem 1/li
 lidelItem 2/del/li
 liItem 3/li
   /ul
  
   When I hid the del using display: hidden; the list would render
   something like this:
  
   * Item 1
   *
   * Item 3
  
   Because I could wrap up the entire list item, the bullet point would
 still
   remain.
  
   To me it appears illogical to not wrap the del or ins around the
 list
   items when you add and remove items to the list. I'm guessing it's a
 case
   where every scenario wasn't accounted for when the specifications was
   written. (Yes, I know that I could add an extra class to the list
 item
   that I wanted to hide, but it's not the point. It shouldn't be
 necessary.)
  
   However, when this scenario presents itself I see it as fine to break
 the
   specification and mark it up like this:
   ul
 liItem 1/li
 delliItem 2/li/del
 liItem 3/li
   /ul
  
   This seem to render exactly as I expect it to do in every browser
 I've
   tested.
  
   * Item 1
   * Item 3
  
  
   I posted a comment about it in the W3C public HTML discussion group,
   hoping it'd be picked up and amend HTML5's specification to allow
 this.
   However, there's yet been any response. Is there any other place I
 could
   air this issue in hope of it getting heards by the authors of the
 next
   HTML specs?
  
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Re: [WSG] Print stylesheet and long urls

2008-03-26 Thread Rahul Gonsalves

Hi Sarah,

On 26-Mar-08, at 12:22 PM, Sarah Peeke wrote:


http://www.alistapart.com/articles/improvingprint/

However, this is only useful if JavaScript is enabled.


In the article listed, if javascript is disabled, then the links are  
displayed inline. I don't think there is a more elegant solution using  
*only* CSS. You could, of course, have a separate page which is  
specifically built for print, which uses some server-side voodoo to  
display the links elsewhere, but that is beyond me. The advisability  
of that method is also suspect.


Best,
 - Rahul.


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RE: [WSG] Print stylesheet and long urls

2008-03-26 Thread Kepler Gelotte
 I am putting together a print stylesheet for an online newsletter that
 contains quite a number of urls, some of which are very long.

Hi Sarah,

You could translate your long URLs to shorter ones using some code on your
server or TinyURL:

http://tinyurl.com/


Best regards,
Kepler Gelotte
Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.
156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854
www.neighborwebmaster.com
phone/fax: (732) 302-0904


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***BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:2.1
N:Gelotte;Kepler;;Mr.
FN:Kepler Gelotte ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
ORG:Neighbor Webmaster
TITLE:Web Designer
TEL;WORK;VOICE:(732) 302-0904
TEL;WORK;FAX:(732) 302-0904
ADR;WORK:;;156 Normandy Dr;Piscataway;NJ;08854;United States of America
LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:156 Normandy Dr=0D=0APiscataway, NJ 08854=0D=0AUnited States of America
URL;WORK:http://www.neighborwebmaster.com
EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
REV:20070415T052107Z
END:VCARD



[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest

2008-03-26 Thread Keeghan, Damian (AU - Melbourne)
Thanks for your email.

I am currently out of the office on training and will return on Friday the 28th 
of March.

Regards,

Damian Keeghan

p class=MsoNormalfont size=1 face=Verdanaspan style='font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'/font
font size=1 face=Verdanaspan style='font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'This email and any attachments to it are confidential. 
You must not use, disclose or act on the email if you are not the intended
recipient.   Liability limited by a scheme approved under Professional
Standards Legislation.  Deloitte is a member of Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu (a
Swiss Verein).  As a Swiss Verein (association), neither Deloitte Touche
Tohmatsu nor any of its member firms has any liability for each other's acts or
omissions.  Each of the member firms is a separate and independent legal entity
operating under the names Deloitte, Deloitte 
Touche, Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu, or other related names. 
Services are provided by the member firms or their subsidiaries and affiliates
and not by the Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu Verein./font



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Re: [WSG] premature to test/worry new site for IE8?

2008-03-26 Thread jody tate
IE8's default setting will be to render web pages in standards- 
compliant mode. You can opt out of standards compliance with a meta  
tag. It was originally announced as the reverse. They changed their  
mind once the mob headed toward the castle in Redmond with pitchforks.


Like most of us, If I could bill MS for all the time I've spent  
debugging/hacking web pages for IE, I'd be a rich man. But I've been  
using and testing the IE8 beta since it was released, and I'd hazard  
that if you're writing standards compliant (x)html and css, all should  
be well (more or less) with the final release. The efforts of the IE  
development team, while not always stellar in the past, genuinely seem  
to be going in the right direction. They're working with the Web  
Standards Project and other groups to ensure IE8 isn't the disaster  
that IE6 and 7 have been.


--
Jody Tate
Web Developer - UW Network Systems
http://staff.washington.edu/jtate/



On Mar 21, 2008, at 3:52 AM, tee wrote:
I am about to start coding for a new site, and client asked me to  
make sure my code will work for IE8, meaning when IE 8 comes out,  
she doesn't need to pay me extra to fix any problem that may occur  
in IE 8. Client is from a web media company, though I understand her  
concerns and that she has to answer to her client, but I just don't  
know how or if I should commit to such 'expectation'.


Last time with IE 7, there was no problem and none of the sites I  
coded for her break when  IE 7 came out. I think this version  
targeting thing really got people worry.


Say, I code my CSS with best practice just like I'd always do, and  
treat IE browsers with CC should it be needed. Do I need to worry  
anything with IE8? It didn't occur to me to worry anything at all  
until client was making this request.


Thanks!

tee


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Re: [WSG] premature to test/worry new site for IE8?

2008-03-26 Thread tee

Hi Jody and others who responded  to my post.
I am very relief to know that I don't need to worry.

tee


On Mar 26, 2008, at 10:20 AM, jody tate wrote:
IE8's default setting will be to render web pages in standards- 
compliant mode. You can opt out of standards compliance with a meta  
tag. It was originally announced as the reverse. They changed their  
mind once the mob headed toward the castle in Redmond with pitchforks.


Like most of us, If I could bill MS for all the time I've spent  
debugging/hacking web pages for IE, I'd be a rich man. But I've been  
using and testing the IE8 beta since it was released, and I'd hazard  
that if you're writing standards compliant (x)html and css, all  
should be well (more or less) with the final release. The efforts of  
the IE development team, while not always stellar in the past,  
genuinely seem to be going in the right direction. They're working  
with the Web Standards Project and other groups to ensure IE8 isn't  
the disaster that IE6 and 7 have been.


--
Jody Tate
Web Developer - UW Network Systems
http://staff.washington.edu/jtate/






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Re: [WSG] INS and DEL in lists

2008-03-26 Thread Keryx Web

Thomas Thomassen skrev:

Thanks. Got a link to where I can follow that incase there's response?



http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2008-March/014252.html

There have been two responses so far. One wishing to expand the 
suggestion and one that is simply positive. No word from Ian yet.



Lars Gunther



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Re: [WSG] The correct way of placing a swf file into a XHTML webpage

2008-03-26 Thread Tate Johnson

On 26/03/2008, at 11:30 PM, Steve Green wrote:
No it can't. Flash content that is embedded using techniques such as  
UFO and

SWFObject is not visible to screen readers - they don't even know it's
there. If the content is important, you need to provide an accessible
alternative.


If you're going to be embedding flash using SWFObject then you'll be  
able to provide alternative content for users without the flash  
browser plug-in or javascript enabled. This means that screen readers  
and spiders will be able to read the alternative content.


Typically, flash banners contain animations; but there isn't any  
reason why a single, static frame couldn't be displayed as alternative  
content. If you're going to display an image, you could potentially  
use alternate text. That said, if it's purely presentational you're  
better off not including alternate text (Alt=). In contrast, you  
might want to use a parent div and apply a background image to that  
using CSS for the alternative content.


SWFObject is a safe and accessible method for embedding flash content.  
However, you should be aware that the WCAG discourages animations from  
playing without user intervention first (That is, the user selects  
play).


Cheers,
Tate


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Re: [WSG] ie7 and firefox

2008-03-26 Thread Mordechai Peller

[EMAIL PROTECTED]@R KULEKC─░ wrote:
which browser is better to try web site. i rarely look my web site in 
ie. is firefox enough? 
No, you need to test in multiple browsers. Since even two standards 
compliant browsers may render the same page slightly differently, you 
certainly will need to test in IE. While IE7 is better than IE6, which 
in turn was better than IE5, it still falls short of the compliant 
browsers (which themselves are really only almost compliant), the only 
way to know for sure if it renders properly is to test.



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RE: [WSG] Semantic markup for a person's name or business name

2008-03-26 Thread Michael MD

2. Aside from it's semantic nature, is there really any functional use  
 for
 formatting data using microformats? I mean, if your format various content
 using microformat standards - as they currently exist - is this
 information then usable/parse-able on different devices? Or is the use of
 microformats simply an effort to make specific content blocks (content
 details, calendars, etc.) semantically coherent in html documents?


Check out the Firefox plugins 
Operator - https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4106
and Tails - https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/2240


It looks like some native support for microformats may be coming soon to
Firefox
http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Using_microformats

and also IE8,
though they seem to be creating their own variation - Webslices which
appears to be a wrapper around hAtom -
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/webslices.mspx 

There are also some online services to do conversions
(such as X2V - http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/ )

Check out the implementations pages on the microformats.org wiki for other
implementations - eg: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-implementations









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[WSG] restricting width in the body tag

2008-03-26 Thread William Donovan

Hi all,

I wanted to ask a question of better practice and current standards view.

Is it better to have a header and footer stretch across the width of the 
browser window or be restricted to the width of the defined. left aligned 
content area. Leaving lots of vacant white space for people with wider screen 
resolution.

(the question arises as people are becoming concerned about laptop users with 
1600 pixel wide computer screens)


and if it is to be restricted in width, should the styling restriction be 
applied to the body tag?

Thank
William


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Re: [WSG] restricting width in the body tag

2008-03-26 Thread Chris Broadfoot

William Donovan wrote:

Hi all,

I wanted to ask a question of better practice and current standards view.

Is it better to have a header and footer stretch across the width of the 
browser window or be restricted to the width of the defined. left aligned 
content area. Leaving lots of vacant white space for people with wider screen 
resolution.

(the question arises as people are becoming concerned about laptop users with 
1600 pixel wide computer screens)


and if it is to be restricted in width, should the styling restriction be 
applied to the body tag?

Thank
William



This, to me, sounds like a design decision and doesn't seem related to 
web standards at all.


Review your targeted viewers, and assess your design and usability in 
whatever environments your viewers will be using


Chris


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RE: [WSG] restricting width in the body tag

2008-03-26 Thread Paul Bennett
Hi William,

It sounds like you're looking for something like a 'jello layout' (term not 
mine)
You can find out more here:
http://www.positioniseverything.net/articles/jello.html

Basically a jello layout will expand and shrink with the browser window but 
only to a defined minimum / maximum.

HTH,
Paul


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RE: [WSG] restricting width in the body tag

2008-03-26 Thread Andrew Boyd
Hi William

my preference is to view banner elements in a 100% wide chunk that blend 
(hopefully) for a seamless look. I acknowledge that this is not always possible 
(or desirable).

As a 1680 pixel wide laptop user I have to agree that fixed width is an issue, 
especially for totally left-aligned treatments.

I think a good basic rule of thumb is to make screen elements float-y wherever 
possible without getting in the way of the user's right to set their text size 
themselves.

Best regards, Andrew

Andrew Boyd
Consultant
SMS Management  Technology

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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Donovan [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2008 1:10 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] restricting width in the body tag

Hi all,

I wanted to ask a question of better practice and current standards view.

Is it better to have a header and footer stretch across the width of the 
browser window or be restricted to the width of the defined. left aligned 
content area. Leaving lots of vacant white space for people with wider screen 
resolution.

(the question arises as people are becoming concerned about laptop users with 
1600 pixel wide computer screens)


and if it is to be restricted in width, should the styling restriction be 
applied to the body tag?

Thank
William


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Re: Re: [WSG] restricting width in the body tag

2008-03-26 Thread William Donovan


A design issue, possibly,

However the end basis for decisions are standards and evidence, and was 
wondering if there was any out there. If no real evidence is available, the it 
is up to those with the strongest opinion.

Good note on assessing environments and user requirements, however that is not 
something that happens or is monitored.


William



 Chris Broadfoot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 William Donovan wrote:
  Hi all,
  
  I wanted to ask a question of better practice and current standards 
 view.
  
  Is it better to have a header and footer stretch across the width of 
 the browser window or be restricted to the width of the defined. left 
 aligned content area. Leaving lots of vacant white space for people with 
 wider screen resolution.
  
  (the question arises as people are becoming concerned about laptop 
 users with 1600 pixel wide computer screens)
  
  
  and if it is to be restricted in width, should the styling restriction 
 be applied to the body tag?
  
  Thank
  William
  
 
 This, to me, sounds like a design decision and doesn't seem related to 
 web standards at all.
 
 Review your targeted viewers, and assess your design and usability in 
 whatever environments your viewers will be using
 
 Chris
 
 
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RE: [WSG] floats and ie7

2008-03-26 Thread Thierry Koblentz
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of dwain
 Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 8:49 PM
 To: web standards group
 Subject: [WSG] floats and ie7

 i thought i had fixed this problem.  i guess i didn't.

 http://www.alforddesigngroup.com/

 in ff, opera, safari 3.1 and seamonkey the page looks the way i intended.  i 
 have an address and menu on the left and two pictures floated 
 right.  in the source code the pix follow the address so on the page they are 
 even with the bottom of the address line on the right side of the
 page.  the pix are in their own shrink-wrapped div.  in ie7 the pix split the 
 address and menu.  i've looked at the css until it all runs
 together.  what am i missing?  and ms said that ie7 was more standards 
 compliant, fooey!

Hi Dwain,

The easy fix:
#nav {zoom:1;}

But that won't validate (and I know you want the styles sheet to validate), so 
you may want to hide it inside a Conditional Comment or try any other property 
that will trigger hasLayout in IE.

For example float will work too:

#nav {float:left;display:inline;}

display:inline is to prevent IE to double the left margin

-- 
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com






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RE: [WSG] floats and ie7

2008-03-26 Thread Kepler Gelotte
 i thought i had fixed this problem.  i guess i didn't.

 

Hi Dwain,

 

Try adding float: left to your nav definition:

 

#nav {

FLOAT: left; FONT-SIZE: 90%; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 8.5em; COLOR:
#039; TEXT-ALIGN: left

}

 

Best regards,

Kepler Gelotte

Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.

156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854

 http://www.neighborwebmaster.com www.neighborwebmaster.com

phone/fax: (732) 302-0904

 



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[WSG] Why is u deprecated?

2008-03-26 Thread Kepler Gelotte
Hi,

I am just curious if anyone can explain why the u tag has been deprecated
while b and i are still allowed.

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,
Kepler Gelotte
Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.
156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854
www.neighborwebmaster.com
phone/fax: (732) 302-0904



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Re: [WSG] floats and ie7

2008-03-26 Thread dwain
thanks kepler for the reply.  i just figured it out.  i added a width of 30%
to the nav rule and ie7 played right.  sometimes things just go over my head
and i have to look at the outlined divs in firefox to figure things like
this out.  i was seeing a blue line for a dive that went all the way across
the page.  then i remembered that i had a nav div.  when i checked the rule
there was no width, therefore it was defaulting at 100%.  cutting the width
percentage fixed the problem.

dwain

On 3/26/08, Kepler Gelotte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   i thought i had fixed this problem.  i guess i didn't.



 Hi Dwain,



 Try adding float: left to your nav definition:



 #nav {

 FLOAT: left; FONT-SIZE: 90%; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 8.5em; COLOR:
 #039; TEXT-ALIGN: left

 }



 Best regards,

 *Kepler Gelotte*

 Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.

 156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854

 www.neighborwebmaster.com

 phone/fax: (732) 302-0904



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-- 
dwain alford
The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression.  Kandinsky


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Re: [WSG] floats and ie7

2008-03-26 Thread dwain
thanks thierry for your response.  there was no width set on the nav div and
that was the culprit.  after my bout with the nn4 style sheet i guess i was
brain dead.  let me know when you will be in alabama and we'll roll out the
red carpet southern style when you get here.
dwain

On 3/26/08, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On Behalf Of dwain
  Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 8:49 PM
  To: web standards group
  Subject: [WSG] floats and ie7

 
  i thought i had fixed this problem.  i guess i didn't.
 

  http://www.alforddesigngroup.com/
 
  in ff, opera, safari 3.1 and seamonkey the page looks the way i
 intended.  i have an address and menu on the left and two pictures floated
  right.  in the source code the pix follow the address so on the page
 they are even with the bottom of the address line on the right side of the
  page.  the pix are in their own shrink-wrapped div.  in ie7 the pix
 split the address and menu.  i've looked at the css until it all runs
  together.  what am i missing?  and ms said that ie7 was more standards
 compliant, fooey!


 Hi Dwain,

 The easy fix:
 #nav {zoom:1;}

 But that won't validate (and I know you want the styles sheet to
 validate), so you may want to hide it inside a Conditional Comment or try
 any other property that will trigger hasLayout in IE.

 For example float will work too:

 #nav {float:left;display:inline;}

 display:inline is to prevent IE to double the left margin


 --
 Regards,
 Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com







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-- 
dwain alford
The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression.  Kandinsky


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Re: [WSG] Why is u deprecated?

2008-03-26 Thread John Hancock

Hi Kepler,

In many ways, b has been deprecated in favour of strong and i in 
favour of em (emphasis). u (underline) has been deprecated because 
it shouldn't be part of structural markup, but instead part of styling, 
so it would be replaced by span class=underline/span or similar.


The reason b (bold) and i italic haven't actually been deprecated is 
that the HTML working group were worried it would lead to the misuse of 
other presentational tags, indeed such as em and strong, which 
should be considered whenever you use these 'newer' tags!


cheers,

John

Kepler Gelotte wrote:

Hi,

I am just curious if anyone can explain why the u tag has been deprecated
while b and i are still allowed.

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,
Kepler Gelotte
Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.
156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854
www.neighborwebmaster.com
phone/fax: (732) 302-0904



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Re: [WSG] Why is u deprecated?

2008-03-26 Thread Michael Horowitz
Here I found they are not technically depreciated but they have 
recommended replacements


|b| 	Although technically not deprecated, W3C recommends the |strong 
|element be used instead.



|i| 	Although technically not deprecated, W3C recommends the |em 
|element be used instead.



http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/clf2-nsi2/tb-bo/td-dt/adea-sread-eng.asp

It does look like they are part of the presentation module
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/abstract_modules.html#s_presentationmodule


Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079



Kepler Gelotte wrote:

Hi,

I am just curious if anyone can explain why the u tag has been deprecated
while b and i are still allowed.

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,
Kepler Gelotte
Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.
156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854
www.neighborwebmaster.com
phone/fax: (732) 302-0904



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RE: [WSG] Why is u deprecated?

2008-03-26 Thread Kepler Gelotte
Thanks for the explanation John.

I think the standards group still should have deprecated b and i though.
Seems a pretty weak argument to say that strong and em will be misused
because b and i already are.

Bold and italics can be controlled through CSS as well, leaving HTML as
clean and semantic as possible.


Best regards,
Kepler Gelotte
Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.
156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854
www.neighborwebmaster.com
phone/fax: (732) 302-0904




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[WSG] why do some divs shrink wrap and others don't [OT?]

2008-03-26 Thread dwain
after my experience tonight i was wondering why some divs will shrink wrap
their contents while others don't.  any takers?

dwain

-- 
dwain alford
The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression.  Kandinsky


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RE: [WSG] floats and ie7

2008-03-26 Thread Thierry Koblentz
 thanks thierry for your response.  there was no width set on the nav div and 
 that was the culprit. 
 after my bout with the nn4 style sheet i guess i was brain dead.  let me know 
 when you will be in alabama 

Hi Dwain,

It does not need a width, it needs hasLayout [1]. 
If it works with a width it is because width is one of the properties that 
triggers hasLayout in IE.
zoom does this, but also position:absolute, display:inline-block, height, float 
and a few others. 

In any case, keep width if you see that it works the way you want.

As a side note, if you want to fix the display issue in IE 6 (your images ), 
you'll need to insert the following:

#adgpix {width: 242px;}

imho, it is a good habit to always set a width on floats. I believe it used to 
be in the specs and I guess old browsers know that ;)


[1] http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html


-- 
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com






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Re: [WSG] Why is u deprecated?

2008-03-26 Thread Mahendran Venkatesan
The presentational elements such as b, i, s and u are deprecated as
because it can be achieved by CSS. For example, u can be achieved by
*text-decoration:
underline*;.

I think, em and strong have been left for *screen readers* to understand
the emphasize part.

Thanks!
Venkatesan M


On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 9:58 AM, Kepler Gelotte 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi,

 I am just curious if anyone can explain why the u tag has been
 deprecated
 while b and i are still allowed.

 Thanks in advance.

 Best regards,
 Kepler Gelotte
 Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.
 156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854
 www.neighborwebmaster.com
 phone/fax: (732) 302-0904



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[WSG] Validating Flash

2008-03-26 Thread Tim MacKay
Hi List,

 

My question is about embedding Flash on html pages (just certain elements -
not talking about full flash sites). I always get errors from HTML Tidy and
the validator about the object and embed tags, which wrecks my validated
markup. What is the standards-compliant way to embed Flash elements so that
my site validates and stops throwing errors?

 

Thanks,

Tim



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RE: [WSG] Why is u deprecated?

2008-03-26 Thread Tim MacKay
I agree with the reasoning but in practice I think its actually better to
use b and i (maybe not so much u) - sometimes you just want something
bold and its much less markup to wrap b and i instead of span
class=bold [which in itself creates the conumdrum of separating markup
from presentation: what do you call this class??]some text/span then
.bold { font-weight: bold; etc; etc; } I hope they don't deprecate it
completely, it is useful when you don't want something to be strong for
screen readers, just bold text.

 

My 2 cents.

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mahendran Venkatesan
Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2008 4:19 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Why is u deprecated?

 

The presentational elements such as b, i, s and u are deprecated as
because it can be achieved by CSS. For example, u can be achieved by
text-decoration: underline;.

I think, em and strong have been left for screen readers to understand
the emphasize part.

Thanks!
Venkatesan M



On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 9:58 AM, Kepler Gelotte
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hi,

I am just curious if anyone can explain why the u tag has been deprecated
while b and i are still allowed.

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,
Kepler Gelotte
Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.
156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854
www.neighborwebmaster.com
phone/fax: (732) 302-0904



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