Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-04 Thread Stuart Foulstone
CSS classes are for presentation.
Content is content.
Centering content is presentation.
Class names should not use keywords such as center.
centre is not a keyword and can be used.
The class centre can then be used anywhere centering is desired.

It is quite easy to remember what this class name does, but if you wish to
use some more obscure name, feel free.


On Sat, May 3, 2008 2:33 pm, Joseph Taylor wrote:
 FYI - Adding such a named class, especially with the name center or
 center goes against separation of presentation and content.

 In a situation where your HTML looks like:

 div
 div class=centre
 my images /
 /div
 div class=centre
 my images /
 /div
 div class=centre
 my images /
 /div
 /div

 You should change it to something like:

 div id=my_section
 div
 my images /
 /div
 div
 my images /
 /div
 div
 my images /
 /div
 /div


 Then your CSS rule could look more like:

 #my_section div {
 text-align: center;
 margin: 5px;
 }

 One day you'll wish that div didn't have the class name of center,
 especially if there are a bunch of them. Just give an id to the
 container that would hold them all and use your css selectors to isolate
 the elements you wish to style.

 In the end, either choice will create the same effect. This one is a
 little more future proof.

 Joseph R. B. Taylor
 /Designer / Developer/
 --
 Sites by Joe, LLC
 /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
 Phone: (609) 335-3076
 Fax: (866) 301-8045
 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



 Stuart Foulstone wrote:
 Or use a CSS class to do the same,

 div class=”centre” 

 and

 .centre {
   text-align: center;
 }

 On Sat, May 3, 2008 10:22 am, Diego La Monica wrote:

 What about div style=”text-align: center” ?





 Diego La Monica

 Web 2.0 - Standards - Accessibilità

 mobile: +39 3337235382 - skype: diego.la.monica

 web: http://diegolamonica.info - http://jastegg.it



   _

 Da: Simon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Inviato: sabato 3 maggio 2008 11.15
 A: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Oggetto: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?



 Hi,



 I know that the align attribute such as div align=”center” is not
 allowed
 in XHTML Strict, but it got me thinking on what the possible
 alternatives
 are for a dynamic environment such as a forum?



 For instance if I know the image width or the total width of all the
 images
 will be the same I usually put them in a wrapper with a fixed width and
 use
 margin: 5px auto as an example.



 What happens if you will never know the width of the images or how many
 images someone may post, as happens on a forum I run. I’ve resorted to
 creating a bbcode tag that uses div align=”center” as that is the
 only
 way
 I can think of.



 Are these scenarios always doomed to use transitional doctypes and
 deprecated code?



 I’d be interested in your opinions



 Cheers

 Simon


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Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-04 Thread Chris Price




Stuart Foulstone wrote:

  CSS classes are for presentation.
Content is content.
Centering content is presentation.
Class names should not use keywords such as "center".
"centre" is not a keyword and can be used.
The class "centre" can then be used anywhere centering is desired.

It is quite easy to remember what this class name does, but if you wish to
use some more obscure name, feel free.
  

But the class attribute (centre) is not css. css is what you apply to
that class.

Markup is markup.
Css is css.
-- 
Kind
Regards
Chris
Price


[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.choctaw.co.uk
Tel.
01524 825 245

Mob. 0777 451 4488
Beauty
is in the Eye of the Beholder while

Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional
~~

Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd 
~~
Choctaw
Media Limited is a company registered in

England and Wales with company number 04627649

Registered
Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close,

St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB  United Kingdom




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Re: [WSG] Image links

2008-05-04 Thread Stuart Foulstone

Do you mean you have a 1px bottom border on the anchor?

If so, altering the border attributes of the image will not change this.

You could, perhaps, try altering the relative positioning of the image to
slightly lower (hiding the border).

This seems to be a bit messy - which is what usually happens when you go
against the natural order of things.



On Sat, May 3, 2008 7:15 pm, Dean Matthews wrote:
 On May 3, 2008, at 5:48 AM, Stuart Foulstone wrote:


 To be clear, I have a 1pixel bottom border on hover (It looks better
 than the default underline).

 The problem is to easily and globally prevent the border on hover on
 image links.

 I have solved it with a border-style: none; class but it has to be
 applied to each image, which is a pain.




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Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-04 Thread Patrick H. Lauke

Stuart Foulstone wrote:


It is quite easy to remember what this class name does, but if you wish to
use some more obscure name, feel free.


And if, at a later date, you change the CSS for a different layout, you 
potentially end up with class names that suggest one thing when they 
actually do another (e.g. .centre { float: left; } ) ...


P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__


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[WSG] Firefox skips dropdown and multi-select list with tabbing (?)

2008-05-04 Thread tee
I'd just noticed that Firefox skips the dropdown and multi-select list  
with tabbing.

Anybody knows if there is a workround?

Thanks!

tee


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Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-04 Thread russ - maxdesign
 CSS classes are for presentation.
 Content is content.
 Centering content is presentation.
 Class names should not use keywords such as center.
 centre is not a keyword and can be used.
 The class centre can then be used anywhere centering is desired.
 
 It is quite easy to remember what this class name does, but if you wish to
 use some more obscure name, feel free.
   
 But the class attribute (centre) is not css. css is what you apply to that
 class.
 
 Markup is markup.
 Css is css.

Is it just me or has this list suddenly become a Zen poem society?
Russ





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Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-04 Thread David Dorward


On 4 May 2008, at 12:47, Stuart Foulstone wrote:


CSS classes are for presentation.


There is no such thing as a CSS class. CSS is for presentation. HTML  
has classes. CSS selectors can match against HTML classes.



Content is content.


True


Centering content is presentation.


True


Class names should not use keywords such as center.


The specification does not forbid this. Keywords are context  
sensitive. It is generally good coding style to avoid it as it reduces  
confusion, but good coding style also suggests that HTML class names  
focus on the WHY not the WHAT - i.e. the reason for the presentation,  
not what the presentation is.


--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/
http://blog.dorward.me.uk/




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Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-04 Thread Joseph Taylor
I suppose it wouldn't matter if you used a class or id, but the id can 
be linked to from within the document, so if your page had a table of 
contents or something, you could jump from point to point.


Id's have to be unique on the page, so they are perfect for attaching to 
the unique sections of the document, so you could structure a document like:


div id=header
   div id=logo /
   div id=nav /
/div
div id=content /
   div id=main_content /
   div id=sub_content /
/div
div id=footer /

This makes css more specific. I can easily say make all text in my main 
content 100%, but sub content should be smaller and lighter lets say:


#main_content {
   font-size: 100%;
   color: #000;
   }

#sub_content {
   font-size: 80%;
   color: #666;
   }

Or you could get really specific, lets say the only links on the page 
that wouldn't be underlined would be links within unordered list items 
that are nested within other list items, and only in the subcontent section:


#subcontent ul li ul li a {
   text-decoration: none;
   }

Any other links in lists would be left alone.  This specificity with no 
extra classes - all thanks to one id set on a parent element.


As far separation, the less classes etc you have in your document the 
better I say since the raw document needs none.  As soon as you add 
classes etc you begin to intertwine the two.  Obviously its a huge 
improvement from tag soup even with a bunch of classes all over the place.


Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Michael Horowitz wrote:
Can you explain to me a little bit more of the  theory of why you 
would want to use and id vs a class called center is this type of 
situation.


Trying to understand more how this becomes an issue of separating 
presentation and content.


Thanks

Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079



Joseph Taylor wrote:
FYI - Adding such a named class, especially with the name center or 
center goes against separation of presentation and content.


In a situation where your HTML looks like:

div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
/div

You should change it to something like:

div id=my_section
div
my images /
/div
div
my images /
/div
div
my images /
/div
/div


Then your CSS rule could look more like:

#my_section div {
text-align: center;
margin: 5px;
}

One day you'll wish that div didn't have the class name of center, 
especially if there are a bunch of them. Just give an id to the 
container that would hold them all and use your css selectors to 
isolate the elements you wish to style.


In the end, either choice will create the same effect. This one is a 
little more future proof.


Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Stuart Foulstone wrote:

Or use a CSS class to do the same,

div class=”centre” 

and

.centre {
  text-align: center;
}

On Sat, May 3, 2008 10:22 am, Diego La Monica wrote:
 

What about div style=”text-align: center” ?





Diego La Monica

Web 2.0 - Standards - Accessibilità

mobile: +39 3337235382 - skype: diego.la.monica

web: http://diegolamonica.info - http://jastegg.it



  _

Da: Simon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Inviato: sabato 3 maggio 2008 11.15
A: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Oggetto: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?



Hi,



I know that the align attribute such as div align=”center” is not
allowed
in XHTML Strict, but it got me thinking on what the possible 
alternatives

are for a dynamic environment such as a forum?



For instance if I know the image width or the total width of all the
images
will be the same I usually put them in a wrapper with a fixed width 
and

use
margin: 5px auto as an example.



What happens if you will never know the width of the images or how 
many

images someone may post, as happens on a forum I run. I’ve resorted to
creating a bbcode tag that uses div align=”center” as that is the 
only

way
I can think of.



Are these scenarios always doomed to use transitional doctypes and
deprecated code?



I’d be interested in your opinions



Cheers

Simon


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R: [WSG] Firefox skips dropdown and multi-select list with tabbing (?)

2008-05-04 Thread Diego La Monica
Hi tee,
  can you provide an (un)working example?



Diego La Monica
Web 2.0 - Standards - Accessibilità
mobile: +39 3337235382 - skype: diego.la.monica
web: http://diegolamonica.info - http://jastegg.it
 
-Messaggio originale-
Da: tee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Inviato: domenica 4 maggio 2008 13.58
A: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Oggetto: [WSG] Firefox skips dropdown and multi-select list with tabbing (?)

I'd just noticed that Firefox skips the dropdown and multi-select list  
with tabbing.
Anybody knows if there is a workround?

Thanks!

tee


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Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-04 Thread Joseph Taylor
Yes, its really easy to add class names as you need them and there is a 
level where it seems both logical and usefuul.


Sadly that is not the reality though.  Patrick hit the nail in the head 
when he mentioned changing designs and having that once relevant class 
name end up attaching styles that no longer match the name you 
originally chose.


Adding a class name of centre is just as bad as picking something like 
red. 

If you take a step back when preparing to apply classes to things, 
you'll find that you are always thinking all the links in the nav 
section or something to that effect, hence using the single class or id 
on the parent element and selectors to achieve what you want.


To climb down fro the soapbox and into a working reality you have to 
break these rules sometimes.  Every page I've ever made that uses any 
floats has somewhere a:


div class=clear/div

with matching css:

div.clear {
   clear: both;
   }

I could come up with fancy workarounds but in the midst of deadlines 
I'll add one superfluous element anytime.


Same thing with my navigations:

I always:

ul
   lia href=#Link Textspan/span/a/li
/ul

Yes, the extra span shouldn't be there. Having it there always me to 
perform elegant image replacements and degrades gracefully.  The mere 
site of that HTML may send some of our members to instantly flame that 
practice.


The bottom line is that there is a pleasant middle ground that exists 
between perfect standards compliance and accomplishing what you want.  
Like anything else you should only break the rules if you know the rules 
- just in case


Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



IceKat wrote:
How is using a name which is descriptive and easy to remember and 
understand (like for those coming in after you've written the code) 
going against that separation? It's not actually putting the styling 
in the html and if anything it saves coding. If you have a class of 
center then you can define it in your stylesheet as

.center{
   text-align: center
}
and anything has that attribute, including divs, headings, paragraphs 
etc. Imagine creating and writing a class for everything like that 
which needs it! You'd wind up with 50 extra lines of code and a bigger 
file and therefore longer download time.


Plus if it's a class then you don't have to worry about it being used 
more than once on a page and you know exactly which name to use when 
you need that attribute as will anyone else who comes across it later.


IceKat


Joseph Taylor wrote:
FYI - Adding such a named class, especially with the name center or 
center goes against separation of presentation and content.


In a situation where your HTML looks like:

div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
/div

You should change it to something like:

div id=my_section
div
my images /
/div
div
my images /
/div
div
my images /
/div
/div


Then your CSS rule could look more like:

#my_section div {
text-align: center;
margin: 5px;
}

One day you'll wish that div didn't have the class name of center, 
especially if there are a bunch of them. Just give an id to the 
container that would hold them all and use your css selectors to 
isolate the elements you wish to style.


In the end, either choice will create the same effect. This one is a 
little more future proof.


Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Stuart Foulstone wrote:

Or use a CSS class to do the same,

div class=”centre” 

and

.centre {
  text-align: center;
}

On Sat, May 3, 2008 10:22 am, Diego La Monica wrote:
 

What about div style=”text-align: center” ?





Diego La Monica

Web 2.0 - Standards - Accessibilità

mobile: +39 3337235382 - skype: diego.la.monica

web: http://diegolamonica.info - http://jastegg.it



  _

Da: Simon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Inviato: sabato 3 maggio 2008 11.15
A: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Oggetto: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?



Hi,



I know that the align attribute such as div align=”center” is not
allowed
in XHTML Strict, but it got me thinking on what the possible 
alternatives

are for a dynamic environment such as a forum?



For instance if I know the image width or the total width of all the
images
will be the same I usually put them in a wrapper with a fixed width 
and

use
margin: 5px auto as an example.



What happens if you will never know the width of the images or how 
many

images someone may post, as happens on a forum I run. I’ve resorted to
creating a bbcode tag that uses div align=”center” as that is the 
only

way
I can think of.



Are 

Re: [WSG] Image links

2008-05-04 Thread Dean Matthews



On May 4, 2008, at 8:10 AM, Stuart Foulstone wrote:


which is what usually happens when you go
against the natural order of things


That is an unnecessarily pedantic comment. I already said I solved my  
design anomaly by applying a class to the image anchor. I simply asked  
if there was a universal rule I hadn't thought of that would be more  
elegant. Since there apparently isn't then I'll just grep it.





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Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-04 Thread Stuart Foulstone

http://www.w3schools.com/CSS/css_syntax.asp

The class Selector

With the class selector you can define different styles for the same type
of HTML element.

Say that you would like to have two types of paragraphs in your document:
one right-aligned paragraph, and one center-aligned paragraph. Here is how
you can do it with styles:

p.right {text-align: right}
p.center {text-align: center}

You have to use the class attribute in your HTML document:

p class=right
This paragraph will be right-aligned.
/p

p class=center
This paragraph will be center-aligned.
/p


On Sun, May 4, 2008 1:12 pm, Chris Price wrote:
 Stuart Foulstone wrote:
 CSS classes are for presentation.
 Content is content.
 Centering content is presentation.
 Class names should not use keywords such as center.
 centre is not a keyword and can be used.
 The class centre can then be used anywhere centering is desired.

 It is quite easy to remember what this class name does, but if you wish
 to
 use some more obscure name, feel free.

 But the class attribute (centre) is not css. css is what you apply to
 that class.

 Markup is markup.
 Css is css.
 --

 Kind Regards


   Chris Price
   Choctaw

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 www.choctaw.co.uk http://www.choctaw.co.uk

 Tel. 01524 825 245
 Mob. 0777 451 4488

 Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while
 Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional

 ~~

   Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd 

 ~~

 Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in
 England and Wales with company number 04627649

 Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close,
 St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB . United Kingdom



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Re: [WSG] Image links

2008-05-04 Thread dwain
this works for all images without adding a style to each image.

img {border:none;}
img:hover {border-bottom:1px solid #f00;padding-bottom:1px;}

dwain

On 5/4/08, Dean Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 On May 4, 2008, at 8:10 AM, Stuart Foulstone wrote:

  which is what usually happens when you go
  against the natural order of things
 

 That is an unnecessarily pedantic comment. I already said I solved my
 design anomaly by applying a class to the image anchor. I simply asked if
 there was a universal rule I hadn't thought of that would be more elegant.
 Since there apparently isn't then I'll just grep it.




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-- 
dwain alford
The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression.  Kandinsky


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Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-04 Thread Viable Design
W3Schools is not related to or sanctioned by the W3C.



On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:


 http://www.w3schools.com/CSS/css_syntax.asp

 The class Selector

 With the class selector you can define different styles for the same type
 of HTML element.

 Say that you would like to have two types of paragraphs in your document:
 one right-aligned paragraph, and one center-aligned paragraph. Here is how
 you can do it with styles:

 p.right {text-align: right}
 p.center {text-align: center}

 You have to use the class attribute in your HTML document:

 p class=right
 This paragraph will be right-aligned.
 /p

 p class=center
 This paragraph will be center-aligned.
 /p


 On Sun, May 4, 2008 1:12 pm, Chris Price wrote:
  Stuart Foulstone wrote:
  CSS classes are for presentation.
  Content is content.
  Centering content is presentation.
  Class names should not use keywords such as center.
  centre is not a keyword and can be used.
  The class centre can then be used anywhere centering is desired.
 
  It is quite easy to remember what this class name does, but if you wish
  to
  use some more obscure name, feel free.
 
  But the class attribute (centre) is not css. css is what you apply to
  that class.
 
  Markup is markup.
  Css is css.
  --
 
  Kind Regards
 
 
Chris Price
Choctaw
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  www.choctaw.co.uk http://www.choctaw.co.uk
 
  Tel. 01524 825 245
  Mob. 0777 451 4488
 
  Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while
  Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional
 
  ~~
 
Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd 
 
  ~~
 
  Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in
  England and Wales with company number 04627649
 
  Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close,
  St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB . United Kingdom
 
 
 
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Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?

2008-05-04 Thread Andrew Maben

On May 4, 2008, at 5:46 PM, Viable Design wrote:


W3Schools is not related to or sanctioned by the W3C.


and enjoys a certain notoriety for sometimes offering less-than- 
perfect advice. though when I'm in a hurry I still find it a useful  
resource as an aide memoire...


Andrew

http://www.andrewmaben.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

In a well designed user interface, the user should not need  
instructions.





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Re: R: [WSG] Firefox skips dropdown and multi-select list with tabbing (?)

2008-05-04 Thread tee



On May 4, 2008, at 7:52 AM, Diego La Monica wrote:


Hi tee,
 can you provide an (un)working example?





Here you are,
http://74.52.59.43/index.php

You need to add a product, then either use 'get a quote' (simple form)  
or go ahead with 'proceed to checkout', then select 'checkout as  
guest', continue, so that it brings you to step2, Billing information,  
where you can have a better tabbing starts from First Name field.


Safari picks up the dropdown list from State/Province and Country. As  
for for the Multi-select field that I menationed also not working, the  
working example is in the admin, therefor I can't show you.


Just few minutes ago I wake up from my dream that maybe I was missing  
the 'option:focus' - though I never remembering see it before, I added  
it anyway. No luck!


input:focus, select:focus, textarea:focus, option:focus  {
background: #ced5e1;color:#333;}

My suspicion are
1) The Prototype accordion or the script that pulls the States and  
Countries' value is causing it, but I kind of rule it out.
2) Some input fields (Name, Email, Addresses) are showing light yellow  
background color. Is this the default of Firefox or a Developer  
toolbar plugin doing the trick?  And somehow cripples the tab focus on  
select.


Didn't test them from IE and Opera yet as I don't remember they have  
tab feature.


tee


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RE: R: [WSG] Firefox skips dropdown and multi-select list with tabbing (?)

2008-05-04 Thread Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd
Just tabbed through the whole checkout forms in FireFox without any problems

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of tee
Sent: 04 May 2008 23:35
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: R: [WSG] Firefox skips dropdown and multi-select list with
tabbing (?)



On May 4, 2008, at 7:52 AM, Diego La Monica wrote:

 Hi tee,
  can you provide an (un)working example?




Here you are,
http://74.52.59.43/index.php

You need to add a product, then either use 'get a quote' (simple form)  
or go ahead with 'proceed to checkout', then select 'checkout as  
guest', continue, so that it brings you to step2, Billing information,  
where you can have a better tabbing starts from First Name field.

Safari picks up the dropdown list from State/Province and Country. As  
for for the Multi-select field that I menationed also not working, the  
working example is in the admin, therefor I can't show you.

Just few minutes ago I wake up from my dream that maybe I was missing  
the 'option:focus' - though I never remembering see it before, I added  
it anyway. No luck!

input:focus, select:focus, textarea:focus, option:focus  {
background: #ced5e1;color:#333;}

My suspicion are
1) The Prototype accordion or the script that pulls the States and  
Countries' value is causing it, but I kind of rule it out.
2) Some input fields (Name, Email, Addresses) are showing light yellow  
background color. Is this the default of Firefox or a Developer  
toolbar plugin doing the trick?  And somehow cripples the tab focus on  
select.

Didn't test them from IE and Opera yet as I don't remember they have  
tab feature.

tee


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-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1413 - Release Date: 03/05/2008
11:22




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Re: R: [WSG] Firefox skips dropdown and multi-select list with tabbing (?)

2008-05-04 Thread Adam Martin
I believe that this is a mac issue rather than firefox. I am guessing 
you are using mac - great too see you are using magento.. As an avid 
magento fan good too see more and more sites coming about.


Adam - www.tweakmag.com

tee wrote:



On May 4, 2008, at 7:52 AM, Diego La Monica wrote:


Hi tee,
 can you provide an (un)working example?





Here you are,
http://74.52.59.43/index.php

You need to add a product, then either use 'get a quote' (simple form) 
or go ahead with 'proceed to checkout', then select 'checkout as 
guest', continue, so that it brings you to step2, Billing information, 
where you can have a better tabbing starts from First Name field.


Safari picks up the dropdown list from State/Province and Country. As 
for for the Multi-select field that I menationed also not working, the 
working example is in the admin, therefor I can't show you.


Just few minutes ago I wake up from my dream that maybe I was missing 
the 'option:focus' - though I never remembering see it before, I added 
it anyway. No luck!


input:focus, select:focus, textarea:focus, option:focus  {
background: #ced5e1;color:#333;}

My suspicion are
1) The Prototype accordion or the script that pulls the States and 
Countries' value is causing it, but I kind of rule it out.
2) Some input fields (Name, Email, Addresses) are showing light yellow 
background color. Is this the default of Firefox or a Developer 
toolbar plugin doing the trick?  And somehow cripples the tab focus on 
select.


Didn't test them from IE and Opera yet as I don't remember they have 
tab feature.


tee


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Re: R: [WSG] Firefox skips dropdown and multi-select list with tabbing (?)

2008-05-04 Thread tee


On May 4, 2008, at 4:00 PM, Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd wrote:

Just tabbed through the whole checkout forms in FireFox without any  
problems




This is VERY ODD!!!  What version of FF /platform do you use?
 I am on Mac, FF v2.0.0.14. I wish I can capture the tabbing in  
action so that I can show you :(


tee


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Re: R: [WSG] Firefox skips dropdown and multi-select list with tabbing (?)

2008-05-04 Thread tee


On May 4, 2008, at 4:00 PM, Adam Martin wrote:

I believe that this is a mac issue rather than firefox. I am  
guessing you are using mac - great too see you are using magento..  
As an avid magento fan good too see more and more sites coming about.


Adam - www.tweakmag.com


Ah, the famous tweakmag :) I am delighted to know  you are here, as  
that means your extension is of high quality :)


OK, Mac issue it is, but if Safari can get it right, it doesn't sound  
like it's Leopoard's problem but rather the Mac version Firefox issue  
(?!)


tee


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RE: R: [WSG] Firefox skips dropdown and multi-select list with tabbing (?)

2008-05-04 Thread Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd
I would say it's the mac that's causing your problems.

I'm running XP Pro with Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-GB;
rv:1.8.1.14) Gecko/20080404 Firefox/2.0.0.14

Good to see Magneto being put to good use. Still rebuilding my server to
take it with it's new approach to the database connecton.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of tee
Sent: 05 May 2008 00:11
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: R: [WSG] Firefox skips dropdown and multi-select list with
tabbing (?)


On May 4, 2008, at 4:00 PM, Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd wrote:

 Just tabbed through the whole checkout forms in FireFox without any  
 problems


This is VERY ODD!!!  What version of FF /platform do you use?
  I am on Mac, FF v2.0.0.14. I wish I can capture the tabbing in  
action so that I can show you :(

tee


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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1413 - Release Date: 03/05/2008
11:22




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[WSG] Colour accessibility/ usability

2008-05-04 Thread Linda Simpson
Hi,

We've been asked to change our colour scheme on our websites to fit into our
corporate colour scheme.  We currently use blue, and the colour we've been
asked to change to is now red.  Our site will be using a solid background,
with white for the content area (along the lines of news.com.au).  Our
concern is that such a large amount of red may cause accessibility/
usability issues (we are not only talking about the background colour but
also the navigation).  We may possibly have some say into the shading of the
red, but for the moment think of a nice bright colour (#A80D35).

What we need more information about is how the colour red can affect
readability.  I have done research, and I know about the w3c colour contrast
algorithm.  I've also had a look at the psychology of the different colours
and that red is associated with anger and intensity.

What I am wanting to know, does anyone have any failure/ success stories of
using a large amount of red on a site without it adversely affecting users.
We also wanted to know if there was a particular range that might cause
headaches in some users.  I would also be interested to know of any research
into what borders on acceptable luminosity.  For example, I know in a couple
of mockups that we have done, the red has been very glary, and makes
focusing on the content quite difficult.  Unfortunately, this being a
personal opinion, we need the research to back it up with.

Any help that you can give will be appreciated.

Regards,
Linda


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Re: [WSG] Colour accessibility/ usability

2008-05-04 Thread Ben Buchanan
Hiya,

What we need more information about is how the colour red can affect
 readability.  I have done research, and I know about the w3c colour contrast
 algorithm.  I've also had a look at the psychology of the different colours
 and that red is associated with anger and intensity.


I used to work on a site that had a red/white/black corporate look and I can
sympathise :) I suspect that actually you know all the reasons why not to
use red in certain ways, but you're being outvoted by a client.

I'd keep fighting for certain basics - your colours must at least comply
with the W3C contrast rules (if you're not already using it, grab the CCA to
make that easier -
http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/contrast-analyser.html).

I'm sure there is research out there for everything else; but you could try
a different tack and run some usability tests with real live users. Get ten
people to test drive your designs and see if anyone finds the colours
confronting. There's no research as relevant as your own :)

Anecdotally, a key thing to avoid is primary red #f00 - it's just too
bright. Also especially avoid using red on white (or reverse) for blocks of
text, people often describe the result as it vibrates and that's prime
territory for headaches; particularly for anyone who's photosensitive.

cheers,
Ben

-- 
--- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/
--- The future has arrived; it's just not
--- evenly distributed. - William Gibson


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RE: [WSG] Colour accessibility/ usability

2008-05-04 Thread ROBEY,Jane
Well, apart from what has already been said, I have a personal
experience of being on the receiving end of a Red brand. I bank with
HSBC, who in Australia have Red and Grey as their brand colours. Every
month I get a statement in Red print and every month I think I am in
debt or they are writing to warn me about something that is overdue.
Except this month. I have changed bank.
 
Regards

Jane




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Linda Simpson
Sent: Monday, 5 May 2008 12:46
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Colour accessibility/ usability


Hi,

We've been asked to change our colour scheme on our websites to fit into
our corporate colour scheme.  We currently use blue, and the colour
we've been asked to change to is now red.  Our site will be using a
solid background, with white for the content area (along the lines of
news.com.au).  Our concern is that such a large amount of red may cause
accessibility/ usability issues (we are not only talking about the
background colour but also the navigation).  We may possibly have some
say into the shading of the red, but for the moment think of a nice
bright colour (#A80D35).

What we need more information about is how the colour red can affect
readability.  I have done research, and I know about the w3c colour
contrast algorithm.  I've also had a look at the psychology of the
different colours and that red is associated with anger and intensity.

What I am wanting to know, does anyone have any failure/ success stories
of using a large amount of red on a site without it adversely affecting
users.  We also wanted to know if there was a particular range that
might cause headaches in some users.  I would also be interested to know
of any research into what borders on acceptable luminosity.  For
example, I know in a couple of mockups that we have done, the red has
been very glary, and makes focusing on the content quite difficult.
Unfortunately, this being a personal opinion, we need the research to
back it up with.

Any help that you can give will be appreciated.

Regards,
Linda


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