[WSG] NoScript Help Please!
Hi, I'm totally hoping that someone can help me with this. I'm trying to use noscript tags but I CANNOT get my page to validate. Below is the section which is giving me trouble. Please can someone tell me what the trouble is. td class=delete_filenoscripta href=a_link.htm/noscript img src=pics/delete.gif alt=Delete File /noscript/a/noscript/td I know it looks odd but this version does exactly what I need. However it refuses to validate. I use XHTML 1.0 strict and do not want to step down to transitional. Unless someone can tell me how to give javascript priority then I need to work this out because if I put the link in on it's own it does the javascript part and then does the link and I only want the link to be activated if javascript is turned off. Please someone help. I'm going crazy! IceKat. -- Nothing is impossible, the impossible just takes longer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] global site list...
could it be split into choosing a continent then a country? might help to make a it bit less busy? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] a question concering shopping cart function (somewhat usability issue I think)
When a customer add a product to cart, which way is more user- friendly? Be redirect to 'my cart' page, or stay at the same page? Right now Magento directs it to checkout page (p/s. this is the only eCommerce software I ever use apart from the paypal BIN button so I have no comparison and don't know how other carts do it), it makes sense to me as a customer because this is how I expect it to be : add cart, process to checkout. I don't want one more click to do the checkout. But client thinks otherwise, he wants no redirect as he wants people continue shopping. Also makes sense too, though not for my habit, but I have learned that I don't make sites for myself :-) I hope this is ON topic as I view it as a usability issue. Thanks! tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] NoScript Help Please!
Hey, My suggestion would be td class=..a href=...img src=.. alt=.. //a/td And attaching the onclick event to a with return false; to stop it executing when there is javascript. The alternative is to have an onload function that puts the image outside the a and deletes the a element. Both of these will degrade gracefully without needing that ugly noscript Regards, Michael On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 4:11 PM, IceKat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm totally hoping that someone can help me with this. I'm trying to use noscript tags but I CANNOT get my page to validate. Below is the section which is giving me trouble. Please can someone tell me what the trouble is. td class=delete_filenoscripta href=a_link.htm/noscript img src=pics/delete.gif alt=Delete File /noscript/a/noscript/td I know it looks odd but this version does exactly what I need. However it refuses to validate. I use XHTML 1.0 strict and do not want to step down to transitional. Unless someone can tell me how to give javascript priority then I need to work this out because if I put the link in on it's own it does the javascript part and then does the link and I only want the link to be activated if javascript is turned off. Please someone help. I'm going crazy! IceKat. -- http://mine.mjec.net/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Fwd: using fieldsets and legends (outside a form) for adding structural markup
Hi Julien A little history may help. In the early days of standards-based markup, people were looking for more structural ways to markup content. It was a bit of a wild west and you saw various attempts to replace a table with x, y, or z. Unfortunately, the standards-based developers did not always read the html guidelines, or the documentation was just vague enough to give some flexibility (Ive been rightly blamed for bastardizing my much beloved definition list). So, there were a number of sites that began using fieldsets and legends outside of forms. You may still find documentation talking about how nice it is to work with. Unfortunately, fieldsets and legends are only for forms and you shouldnt use them otherwise. Ive actually been dealing with this recently in the zemanta firefox plugin. This inserts a fieldset with a list of links for adding related content to blog posts. I logged a bug and theyll fix it in a future release. But it just goes to show this is a commonly misused pattern. Go for the header and div. its semantic and the header gives screen readers (and Opera) something to navigate with. Ted Drake Last-child.com _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Julián Landerreche Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 9:45 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Fwd: using fieldsets and legends (outside a form) for adding structural markup A workmate come with this idea, which then I have searched on web and haven't found too much information about it, but this: [1] and [2]. The idea: using fieldset and legend for adding structural markup/labes [3]. It seems that using fieldsets _outside_ forms doesn't make the code to invalidate. Also, in HTML 4.01, legend is required, but optional in XHTML. Currently, I like the approach of adding structural markup using a heading (hn class=structural) even just a simple strong class=structural, and if necessary, hide them by CSS I borrowed the idea from NetRelations.se and 456bereastreet.com. Example: div id=main-nav strong class=structuralMain navigation/strong !-- or hnMain navigation/hn -- ul liaSection 1/a/li liaSection 2/a/li liaSection 3/a/li /ul /div So, applying fieldset and legend this could be rewritten like this: fieldset id=main-nav legend class=structuralMain navigation/legend ul liaSection 1/a/li liaSection 2/a/li liaSection 3/a/li /ul /fieldset Another example: a list of actions (that are in fact, simple links, so, it's just another navigation) where it could make even more sense. fieldset id=actions legend class=structuralYou can do the following/legend ul liaCreate/a/li liaDelete/a/li liaEdit/a/li /ul /fieldset Putting aside anything related to CSS styling (legends could be difficult to style, but aren't really difficult to hide using display:none; although using position: absolute; left:-px could be better for accesibility, but that positioning method on legends has inconsistencies across browsers): 1. Could there be accessibility issues using fieldset/legend outside a form? 2. Or could this method enhance the accessibility (in fact, structural labels enhance accessibility)? 3. Is there any other research/resource that can add some light on this? Thanks. Julián. [1] http://www.opendesigns.org/forum/discussion/2047/ [2] http://drupal.org/node/233928 [3] http://www.usability.com.au/resources/source-order.cfm *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a question concering shopping cart function (somewhat usability issue I think)
Hi tee, Always think as if you're there...and think about the possibilites. In such a situation, either the user(buyer) added something to the shopping cart, and still wants to add some other stuff, we will call this case A, or the user(buyer) just wanted this single item case B. I believe the ratio of case A is much higher than case B. Now, if you're case A, what would you want to see after clicking on add to shopping cart ? I tried to show you the way here instead of giving you the solution. :) cheers, On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 9:26 AM, tee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When a customer add a product to cart, which way is more user-friendly? Be redirect to 'my cart' page, or stay at the same page? Right now Magento directs it to checkout page (p/s. this is the only eCommerce software I ever use apart from the paypal BIN button so I have no comparison and don't know how other carts do it), it makes sense to me as a customer because this is how I expect it to be : add cart, process to checkout. I don't want one more click to do the checkout. But client thinks otherwise, he wants no redirect as he wants people continue shopping. Also makes sense too, though not for my habit, but I have learned that I don't make sites for myself :-) I hope this is ON topic as I view it as a usability issue. Thanks! tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Walied Youssry Art Director mobile: (+2).010.1555.709 - Do not argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and beat you up with their experience. *peace* :-| *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] NoScript Help Please!
On 21 May 2008, at 07:11, IceKat wrote:
I'm totally hoping that someone can help me with this. I'm trying to
use noscript tags but I CANNOT get my page to validate. Below is the
section which is giving me trouble. Please can someone tell me what
the trouble is.
td class=delete_filenoscripta href=a_link.htm/noscript
img src=pics/delete.gif alt=Delete File /noscript/a/
noscript/td
Three issues:
1: A start tag starts an element, an end tag ends an element, and
elements must be contained entirely within other elements.
2: noscript is a very poor means of handling the 'no js case', it
doesn't cope with 'JavaScript supported, but not the functions you are
calling'
3: Links make GET requests, and GET requests shouldn't do anything
significant to the server (like deleting files). People have run into
problems with precaching proxy servers following all the links to get
the content available for users and deleting lots of files as they go.
For changes to the server, use POST.
I would do something like this:
form method=POST action=a_link.html class=delete_file
div
input name=delete type=image
src=pics/delete.gif alt=Delete File
/div
/form
And then:
script type=text/javascript src=http://yui.yahooapis.com/2.5.1/build/yahoo-dom-event/yahoo-dom-event.js
/script
script type=text/javascript
function deleteFiles(e, obj) {
YAHOO.util.Event.preventDefault(e); // Don't submit the form
normally
// And then whatever else you want your JS to do
}
var elements = YAHOO.util.Dom.getElementsByClassName('delete_file',
'form');
YAHOO.util.Event.addListener(elements, submit, deleteFiles);
/script
YUI documentation is available from http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/
--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/
http://blog.dorward.me.uk/
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Re: [WSG] PHP Standards
Ian Chamberlain skrev: Fingers crossed this is not too far off topic; being a newby to PHP; any clues where I can find how-to's, snippets, libraries or even application suites built from PHP that are built to a good minimum standard please. I am guessing that PHP is much like JavaScript in that a lot of what is floating about is either poor or pooh the result of all the good programmes stending their time on ASP or J2EE. There is no standard for PHP, but there are best practices. And they mimick what's happening on the client. Client: Separation of concerns between design, content and behavior. Server: Separation of concern between different kinds of logic. The number one priority having grasped the basics of the language would be to separate presentation logic from business logic, the second to separate business logic from data storage logic. When you evolve as a developer you may have even more tiers. Some people like to call this MVC. However, the web and PHP are ill suited for *pure* MVC implementations. But PHP has never been about purity... Another thing they have in common. Frameworks ar good, but not something you can use to avoid learning the language http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200701/learn_javascript_before_tasting_the_library_koolaid/ A third thing in common: All devs should agree on a style guide! Naming conventions, indentation, bracket placement, etc. A few more notes: PHPDoc is something that should be picked up ASAP. I teach it to newbies. Read the manual and search it thoroughly. The strength of PHP are the numerous built in functions. Replication of built in functions in userland PHP code is a waste of time, CPU cycles and makes the code bloated. And PHP 4 really is dying. PHP 5 is faster and has a ton of goodies. Do not bother with PHP 4 any more! Good books: Learning PHP PHP 5 Unleashed PHP Power Programming Advanced PHP Programming Lars Gunther *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Guestbook
Hi All, I've had a request to put a guestbook on a client's site. I've searched amomgst the maze of google refs, but there seems to be a lot of micky mouse things. I am after an accessible, (x)html valid (of course!) example. I feel sure that someone on the list will have done this, or at least know where to point me? Any help gratefully appreciated. Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Guestbook
Dear Bob, I suggest you try to find a CMS guestbook that is also editable and accessible with a PHP interface to manager non wanted articles and writing. It is very useful for a client or yourself to manage it with a simple login... Michael Designer wrote: Hi All, I've had a request to put a guestbook on a client's site. I've searched amomgst the maze of google refs, but there seems to be a lot of micky mouse things. I am after an accessible, (x)html valid (of course!) example. I feel sure that someone on the list will have done this, or at least know where to point me? Any help gratefully appreciated. Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Michael Persson front-end developer seo *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a question concering shopping cart function (somewhat usability issue I think)
On May 21, 2008, at 3:44 AM, walied yossry wrote: In such a situation, either the user(buyer) added something to the shopping cart, and still wants to add some other stuff, we will call this case A, or the user(buyer) just wanted this single item case B. I think in either case a user needs confirmation that the selected item has indeed been added to the cart. Redirection to the cart page is probably the easiest (from a development perspective) and most reassuring (from a user perspective). I'd suggest that if you're going to stay on the shopping page then the user needs to see a message to the effect that Item X has been added to your cart with a Checkout link, and possibly even a list of all items in the cart - and even so a number of users are likely to take a side trip to the cart page to make sure, at least for the first purchase. Levels of trust in e-commerce remain low (sorry, no citations) so it's still very important to provide reassurance at every step. Andrew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a question concering shopping cart function (somewhat usability issue I think)
I would also like to add that staying on the page when adding a product to the cart is quite likely going to use javascript (aka ajax) to add the product to the cart and inform the user that the item has been added. This obviously has both usability and accessibility issues. I think Magento's approach is pretty standard and what the user expects. The idea that by taking someone to the cart will stop them shopping is in my opinion very flawed. In fact, i would argue in the opposite - in that if the customer merrily puts item in the cart - they will then get a shock when they do get too see the cart.. and give up. Great work magento is doing... I have been playing with it since day 1. Adam Tweakmag.com Andrew Maben wrote: On May 21, 2008, at 3:44 AM, walied yossry wrote: In such a situation, either the user(buyer) added something to the shopping cart, and still wants to add some other stuff, we will call this case A, or the user(buyer) just wanted this single item case B. I think in either case a user needs confirmation that the selected item has indeed been added to the cart. Redirection to the cart page is probably the easiest (from a development perspective) and most reassuring (from a user perspective). I'd suggest that if you're going to stay on the shopping page then the user needs to see a message to the effect that Item X has been added to your cart with a Checkout link, and possibly even a list of all items in the cart - and even so a number of users are likely to take a side trip to the cart page to make sure, at least for the first purchase. Levels of trust in e-commerce remain low (sorry, no citations) so it's still very important to provide reassurance at every step. Andrew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Fwd: using fieldsets and legends (outside a form) for adding structural markup
So, there were a number of sites that began using fieldsets and legends outside of forms. You may still find documentation talking about how nice it is to work with. Unfortunately, fieldsets and legends are only for forms and you shouldn't use them otherwise. I've actually been dealing with this recently in the zemanta firefox plugin. This inserts a fieldset with a list of links for adding related content to blog posts. I logged a bug and they'll fix it in a future release. But it just goes to show this is a commonly misused pattern. People were also using fieldsets simply because they contain floats -- Regards, Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Fwd: using fieldsets and legends (outside a form) for adding structural markup
Hi Julian, One more subtle point here (after taking this discussion into the office with guys that work with me) a point was made today that within DOM fieldset is part of the form hence you cannot reference a fieldset through DOM unless it is inside a form, so it is definitely a wrong approach to use it in that way, especially if you want to do fancy JavaScript stuff with it all. Hope this helps. Regards, Jason www.flexewebs.com On 5/21/08, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, there were a number of sites that began using fieldsets and legends outside of forms. You may still find documentation talking about how nice it is to work with. Unfortunately, fieldsets and legends are only for forms and you shouldn't use them otherwise. I've actually been dealing with this recently in the zemanta firefox plugin. This inserts a fieldset with a list of links for adding related content to blog posts. I logged a bug and they'll fix it in a future release. But it just goes to show this is a commonly misused pattern. People were also using fieldsets simply because they contain floats -- Regards, Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Fwd: using fieldsets and legends (outside a form) for adding structural markup
Jason Grant wrote: One more subtle point here (after taking this discussion into the office with guys that work with me) a point was made today that within DOM fieldset is part of the form hence you cannot reference a fieldset through DOM unless it is inside a form ... An easy theory to test, and hence, to prove utterly wrong :-) Not that I support the idea of using a fieldset outside a form, but bogus is bogus... -- Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-621-3445 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a question concering shopping cart function (somewhat usability issue I think)
On May 21, 2008, at 4:48 AM, Adam Martin wrote: I would also like to add that staying on the page when adding a product to the cart is quite likely going to use javascript (aka ajax) to add the product to the cart and inform the user that the item has been added. This obviously has both usability and accessibility issues. Hi Adam, just learned that I can easily switch on/off from the configuration, and the js validation has already in place. The transition of how the message shows up isn't very smooth (jumpy!) when the product to add to cart isn't at the top of the page. I will try talk client out of it, my worry is that this is not a client who cares about people using other UA except the common browsers. I have no success in selling accessibility when I try to find clients, nobody buys it, so whatever extra care I make for accessibility is from me, free of charge, that I have not found anybody appreciate it except people from this list :-) Such is a reality. I think Magento's approach is pretty standard and what the user expects. The idea that by taking someone to the cart will stop them shopping is in my opinion very flawed. In fact, i would argue in the opposite - in that if the customer merrily puts item in the cart - they will then get a shock when they do get too see the cart.. and give up. Great work magento is doing... I have been playing with it since day 1. Same here. There were times (in beta) I regretted being jumping in too early for this software, however, as the site's launch date gets closer, I feel that I have after all made a great choice talking client into waiting this long - I'd been building this site since day 1. A great learning opportunity that I can also get paid. tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a question concering shopping cart function (somewhat usability issue I think)
I have no success in selling accessibility when I try to find clients, nobody buys it, so whatever extra care I make for accessibility is from me, free of charge Accessibility is really not that difficult to put in place - I also believe as professionals providing web design / development services that this should not be an addon that we charge but part of what the client should expect too get - imagine a builder charging you to make your house compliant. :) I have a strong belief that here in Australia a lot of websites are going to be tested on discrimination grounds - do you want to be the one bearing this as the provider? Cheers Adam On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 12:56 PM, tee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 21, 2008, at 4:48 AM, Adam Martin wrote: I would also like to add that staying on the page when adding a product to the cart is quite likely going to use javascript (aka ajax) to add the product to the cart and inform the user that the item has been added. This obviously has both usability and accessibility issues. Hi Adam, just learned that I can easily switch on/off from the configuration, and the js validation has already in place. The transition of how the message shows up isn't very smooth (jumpy!) when the product to add to cart isn't at the top of the page. I will try talk client out of it, my worry is that this is not a client who cares about people using other UA except the common browsers. I have no success in selling accessibility when I try to find clients, nobody buys it, so whatever extra care I make for accessibility is from me, free of charge, that I have not found anybody appreciate it except people from this list :-) Such is a reality. I think Magento's approach is pretty standard and what the user expects. The idea that by taking someone to the cart will stop them shopping is in my opinion very flawed. In fact, i would argue in the opposite - in that if the customer merrily puts item in the cart - they will then get a shock when they do get too see the cart.. and give up. Great work magento is doing... I have been playing with it since day 1. Same here. There were times (in beta) I regretted being jumping in too early for this software, however, as the site's launch date gets closer, I feel that I have after all made a great choice talking client into waiting this long - I'd been building this site since day 1. A great learning opportunity that I can also get paid. tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- - http://myfitness.ning.com A community of people that care about their health and fitness Free fitness videos, recipes, blogs, photos etc. -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] NoScript Help Please!
Hi,
Thanks to those who have replied so far. I'm still a bit lost because
this has gotten a bit more complicated so I'll explain a bit.
I have a page which lists records in a mysql database. They each have
varying options including delete. They are printed with a php loop. The
table of records is in a form and the delete button has in fact become a
input type=image which posts some data back to the page with a
javascript return confirm. The posted data is then excecuted. The php
and mysql is fine but the javascript is doing the confirming which means
that if it's turned off then there is no confirmation of the delete.
This is the reason why I am trying to put in a regular image with a link
to another page which only appears if javascript is disabled.
I know this isn't a JavaScript help page but I'm hoping that someone
will understand my babbling because I'm having trouble getting this to
do what I need and validate my page at the same time. The first solution
posted by Michael seemed good until I realised it was actually an input
type=image that I needed (sorry about that). The solution below seems to
do what I need but the complexity of the javascript makes me feel cold.
Can anyone either mail me directly to save clogging up this mailing list
or point me to a place where I can learn what I need? Does anyone know a
good javascript forum?
Many Thanks,
IceKat
David Dorward wrote:
Three issues:
1: A start tag starts an element, an end tag ends an element, and
elements must be contained entirely within other elements.
2: noscript is a very poor means of handling the 'no js case', it
doesn't cope with 'JavaScript supported, but not the functions you are
calling'
3: Links make GET requests, and GET requests shouldn't do anything
significant to the server (like deleting files). People have run into
problems with precaching proxy servers following all the links to get
the content available for users and deleting lots of files as they go.
For changes to the server, use POST.
I would do something like this:
form method=POST action=a_link.html class=delete_file
div
input name=delete type=image
src=pics/delete.gif alt=Delete File
/div
/form
And then:
script type=text/javascript
src=http://yui.yahooapis.com/2.5.1/build/yahoo-dom-event/yahoo-dom-event.js;/script
script type=text/javascript
function deleteFiles(e, obj) {
YAHOO.util.Event.preventDefault(e); // Don't submit the form normally
// And then whatever else you want your JS to do
}
var elements = YAHOO.util.Dom.getElementsByClassName('delete_file',
'form');
YAHOO.util.Event.addListener(elements, submit, deleteFiles);
/script
YUI documentation is available from http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/
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Re: [WSG] a question concering shopping cart function (somewhat usability issue I think)
On May 21, 2008, at 11:20 PM, Adam Martin wrote: I have no success in selling accessibility when I try to find clients, nobody buys it Sadly, that's probably true enough. But usability is much easier to sell - especially if framed in terms of you do want your customers to be able to find and purchase your products, don't you? Accessibility doesn't even have to be a part of the conversation, it's just a huge component of usability. Andrew http://www.andrewmaben.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a well designed user interface, the user should not need instructions. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a question concering shopping cart function (somewhat usability issue I think)
Ooooh ! What does that button do ? If you call it CHECKOUT, the user knows what will happen. Yes, it will take her straight to the checkout page where she can complete the transaction. If you call it ADD TO SHOPPING CART, you are using a metaphor here. You are telling the user that there is a shopping cart just as there is one in the local departmental store. You are framing the user's mental model. So the user pictures a virtual shopping cart, where she can keep on adding items and when she is done, she can proceed to checkout. Remember, if you are using the label ADD TO SHOPPING CART, you should also have a corresponding icon and an area on the top right of the page designated and labeled as a SHOPPING CART. This area will update on each click of the ADD ... button, so the user knows that she has added some items to the virtual shopping cart. -- Bipul Keshri Senior Information Architect Mobile: +91 999 910 6202 On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 11:56 AM, tee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When a customer add a product to cart, which way is more user-friendly? Be redirect to 'my cart' page, or stay at the same page? Right now Magento directs it to checkout page (p/s. this is the only eCommerce software I ever use apart from the paypal BIN button so I have no comparison and don't know how other carts do it), it makes sense to me as a customer because this is how I expect it to be : add cart, process to checkout. I don't want one more click to do the checkout. But client thinks otherwise, he wants no redirect as he wants people continue shopping. Also makes sense too, though not for my habit, but I have learned that I don't make sites for myself :-) I hope this is ON topic as I view it as a usability issue. Thanks! tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a question concering shopping cart function (somewhat usability issue I think)
On May 21, 2008, at 8:20 PM, Adam Martin wrote: I have no success in selling accessibility when I try to find clients, nobody buys it, so whatever extra care I make for accessibility is from me, free of charge Accessibility is really not that difficult to put in place - I also believe as professionals providing web design / development services that this should not be an addon that we charge but part of what the client should expect too get - imagine a builder charging you to make your house compliant. :) Yes, I embrace that, an accessibility should be a de facto for a web design service. However, a highly accessible site that can be accessed by everyone regardless of disability takes a lot of care and time - but this isn't a problem for me. When I said I have no success in selling accessibility, I meant apart from the basic needs (everything lined up, look good, accessible with mouse and keyboard), clients DO NOT CARE if a person uses screen reader to browse his site. We need law to make them CARE, but there isn't any. Take the shopping site example, he wants the add cart not re-direct to cart page, because he thinks this will prevent people to shop more in his shop (now, this is another whole study of shopper behaviors which I don't know of). I can delivery what he wants on this , but you and other said and I knew it too, that I need to provide a confirmation message, and the best way to do it is using ajax /js as you suggested, quote your word: This obviously has both usability and accessibility issues.. This is what I am unable to sell. Using an ajax validation to show confirmation/warning message works pretty well, the only time it doesn't work is someone using a special UA that supports no JS/AJAX. By 'de facto', if client said I don't want to redirect to checkout page. I answer with a 'no problem' because I know a JS validation can take care of some accessibility, and I don't need to explain anything to him but deliver what he wants. But if I am to be so accessible purist, I will say, no, we can't do that, because how if someone with a screen reader that has no support of JS/AJAX shops your store, and no redirection to the checkout page, then she may get confuse and this is very bad for you site. No law backs me up, and I am unable to sell that 'maybe, possible' 1% accessibility. A good notion and “The power of the Web is in its universality. Access by everyone regardless of disability is an essential aspect.” won't work unless there is a law says so. tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] a question concering shopping cart function (somewhat usability issue I think)
Take a quick look here - you will see that javascript off is actually more common than people using safari or opera! I know this is only 1 site - but it does have some relevance. http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 1:54 PM, tee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 21, 2008, at 8:20 PM, Adam Martin wrote: I have no success in selling accessibility when I try to find clients, nobody buys it, so whatever extra care I make for accessibility is from me, free of charge Accessibility is really not that difficult to put in place - I also believe as professionals providing web design / development services that this should not be an addon that we charge but part of what the client should expect too get - imagine a builder charging you to make your house compliant. :) Yes, I embrace that, an accessibility should be a de facto for a web design service. However, a highly accessible site that can be accessed by everyone regardless of disability takes a lot of care and time - but this isn't a problem for me. When I said I have no success in selling accessibility, I meant apart from the basic needs (everything lined up, look good, accessible with mouse and keyboard), clients DO NOT CARE if a person uses screen reader to browse his site. We need law to make them CARE, but there isn't any. Take the shopping site example, he wants the add cart not re-direct to cart page, because he thinks this will prevent people to shop more in his shop (now, this is another whole study of shopper behaviors which I don't know of). I can delivery what he wants on this , but you and other said and I knew it too, that I need to provide a confirmation message, and the best way to do it is using ajax /js as you suggested, quote your word: This obviously has both usability and accessibility issues.. This is what I am unable to sell. Using an ajax validation to show confirmation/warning message works pretty well, the only time it doesn't work is someone using a special UA that supports no JS/AJAX. By 'de facto', if client said I don't want to redirect to checkout page. I answer with a 'no problem' because I know a JS validation can take care of some accessibility, and I don't need to explain anything to him but deliver what he wants. But if I am to be so accessible purist, I will say, no, we can't do that, because how if someone with a screen reader that has no support of JS/AJAX shops your store, and no redirection to the checkout page, then she may get confuse and this is very bad for you site. No law backs me up, and I am unable to sell that 'maybe, possible' 1% accessibility. A good notion and The power of the Web is in its universality. Access by everyone regardless of disability is an essential aspect. won't work unless there is a law says so. tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- - http://myfitness.ning.com A community of people that care about their health and fitness Free fitness videos, recipes, blogs, photos etc. -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] NoScript Help Please!
Hi IceKat
If javascript is required for the link - then write/append it to the
page using javascript - then if javascript is being used - no link
Cheers
Jeff
On 22/05/2008, at 1:31 PM, IceKat wrote:
Hi,
Thanks to those who have replied so far. I'm still a bit lost
because this has gotten a bit more complicated so I'll explain a bit.
I have a page which lists records in a mysql database. They each
have varying options including delete. They are printed with a php
loop. The table of records is in a form and the delete button has in
fact become a input type=image which posts some data back to the
page with a javascript return confirm. The posted data is then
excecuted. The php and mysql is fine but the javascript is doing the
confirming which means that if it's turned off then there is no
confirmation of the delete. This is the reason why I am trying to
put in a regular image with a link to another page which only
appears if javascript is disabled.
I know this isn't a JavaScript help page but I'm hoping that someone
will understand my babbling because I'm having trouble getting this
to do what I need and validate my page at the same time. The first
solution posted by Michael seemed good until I realised it was
actually an input type=image that I needed (sorry about that). The
solution below seems to do what I need but the complexity of the
javascript makes me feel cold.
Can anyone either mail me directly to save clogging up this mailing
list or point me to a place where I can learn what I need? Does
anyone know a good javascript forum?
Many Thanks,
IceKat
David Dorward wrote:
Three issues:
1: A start tag starts an element, an end tag ends an element, and
elements must be contained entirely within other elements.
2: noscript is a very poor means of handling the 'no js case', it
doesn't cope with 'JavaScript supported, but not the functions you
are calling'
3: Links make GET requests, and GET requests shouldn't do anything
significant to the server (like deleting files). People have run
into problems with precaching proxy servers following all the links
to get the content available for users and deleting lots of files
as they go. For changes to the server, use POST.
I would do something like this:
form method=POST action=a_link.html class=delete_file
div
input name=delete type=image
src=pics/delete.gif alt=Delete File
/div
/form
And then:
script type=text/javascript src=http://yui.yahooapis.com/2.5.1/build/yahoo-dom-event/yahoo-dom-event.js
/script
script type=text/javascript
function deleteFiles(e, obj) {
YAHOO.util.Event.preventDefault(e); // Don't submit the form
normally
// And then whatever else you want your JS to do
}
var elements =
YAHOO.util.Dom.getElementsByClassName('delete_file', 'form');
YAHOO.util.Event.addListener(elements, submit, deleteFiles);
/script
YUI documentation is available from http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/
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Re: [WSG] Fwd: using fieldsets and legends (outside a form) for adding structural markup
Although since the beginning I wasn't convinced (that's why I started this thread) about using fieldset/legend for adding structural labels to non-form content (particularly, action links or site nav links), I'm still not convinced by exposed counter arguments against using it. I wasn't convinced at first because: - fieldset/legends are used in forms to group controls. This is common usage/practice, and even more, it's the usage recommended by the W3C, as some of you already remarked on this thread, .ç - couldn't find any research nor articles in favor or against this practice, particularly, when it concerns to possible issues on accessibility. I wasn't convinced by counter arguments because: - this isn't a CSS/JS issue. In fact, the idea is to have it as structural labels/markup, that will be probably invisible for sighted users. I'm not trying to achieve something fancy, although I have said that fieldset+legend looks fine, and more important, *helpful* for users when CSS is disabled (browser default CSS) And also, not convinced because of this other reasoning (hope it's not a fallacy): - if it validates (true) and - if the W3C doesn't explicitly says anything about not using fieldset/legend outside forms (¿true?) then - it could be used to add semantics or meaning in a new way outside forms. Let me add other real-world examples of using/combining HTML elements/attributes to create new semantics, all well known by us: - ul li a = a navigation menu - div + abbr + span + predifined classes = microformats (chunks of HTML with added meaning). As Jason stated above: divs are for separating components/sections of a page and can be semantically very strong, especially when given a meaningful class or id name Probably, at first, nobody though that by combining an unordered list of items with links could be seen as a navigation. In fact, before the Web Standards mindset change, not too many people were doing nav menus that way. And that's probably my point: trying to add new semantics and better accessibility with current HTML elements. Of course, if the fieldset/legend *really* hurts accessibility, print this thread, delete it and burn the printed copy to ashes. @Ted wrote: Go for the header and div. it's semantic and the header gives screen readers (and Opera) something to navigate with. Probably this is the most common way of doing it. But we all know the problems that arise when using headings: it's pretty hard to establish with level of heading should go for different navigational/secondary content on a page. If we think and rethink a webpage as a document, I really doubt that a navigation menu, or a skip to menu, or even the footer deserve a heading. Haven't you ever think that you were mis-using or wasting headings for the sake of semantics? If we take a look to manual/scientific books (a kind of document, probably the parent of a web pages), there are sometimes notes or boxes with little complementary content on the margins of the page. Although most of the times, they are marked up as a heading and a little paragraph, I've seen also some of this side notes as fieldset+legend+content. I'm not trying to say that fieldset/legends could be used to mark side notations of an article on webpages. Again, the primary use I can think is about adding structural labels. Hope someone could do further research regarding usability/accessibility, which is what should decide the benefits or cons of this proposed practice and what could lead us to have better common practices with current set of HTML elements. Thanks. On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 7:53 PM, Jason Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Julian, One more subtle point here (after taking this discussion into the office with guys that work with me) a point was made today that within DOM fieldset is part of the form hence you cannot reference a fieldset through DOM unless it is inside a form, so it is definitely a wrong approach to use it in that way, especially if you want to do fancy JavaScript stuff with it all. Hope this helps. Regards, Jason www.flexewebs.com On 5/21/08, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, there were a number of sites that began using fieldsets and legends outside of forms. You may still find documentation talking about how nice it is to work with. Unfortunately, fieldsets and legends are only for forms and you shouldn't use them otherwise. I've actually been dealing with this recently in the zemanta firefox plugin. This inserts a fieldset with a list of links for adding related content to blog posts. I logged a bug and they'll fix it in a future release. But it just goes to show this is a commonly misused pattern. People were also using fieldsets simply because they contain floats -- Regards, Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
