Re: [WSG] What is the best solution for IE6 png issue?

2008-08-03 Thread Сергей Кириченко

not to use png with alpha in IE6 )
just like  adobe.com (look at drop-down menu in different browsers)

sri ni пишет:

Hi All,

What is the best *solution *for IE6 PNG issue?

--
Thanks,
Srini Perumal


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Re: [WSG] What is the best solution for IE6 png issue?

2008-08-03 Thread Joseph Taylor
In the end IE6 isn't going to be 100% if you're using .png files.  Even 
the javascripts out there cause odd bugs - things like link over .png 
backgrounds not working etc.


My advice and what I do in actual practice - use conditional comments to 
address IE6 and lower and replace all instances of .png with a .gif.


Yes, it doesn't look as nice the .pngs, but then again everything looks 
like crap on them - just look at the non-aliased text!


Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Сергей Кириченко wrote:

not to use png with alpha in IE6 )
just like  adobe.com (look at drop-down menu in different browsers)

sri ni пишет:

Hi All,

What is the best *solution *for IE6 PNG issue?

--
Thanks,
Srini Perumal


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begin:vcard
fn:Joseph Taylor
n:Taylor;Joseph
org:Sites by Joe, LLC
adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:Designer / Developer
tel;work:609-335-3076
tel;fax:886-301-8045
tel;home:609-886-9660
tel;cell:609-335-3076
x-mozilla-html:TRUE
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end:vcard



Re: [WSG] What is the best solution for IE6 png issue?

2008-08-03 Thread James Ellis
Hi

There is some really good information in all these posts. I'd also go so far 
as to say look at the theory of developing specifics for IE6. There is a 
gaining movement around to start phasing out IE6 support - look at 37signals, 
I think they begin IE6 phase out this week or next. They've done their maths 
and taken a gamble. Hopefully it'll spark something.
For all my new clients, I have added a clause in the contract which states 
we'll be phasing out IE6 support beginning 2009- their site may work in IE6 
after the phase out date but for full support they should use a better browser 
- Firefox, Opera, Safari, IE7, Konquerer etc etc

I pitch it to them that in the long run they'll actually be spending more 
money developing for IE6 (a browser which is patched by upgrading to IE7) than 
in adding features that could bring in more revenue. They'll also be 
prolonging the shelf life of a browser which has the functional equivalence of 
5 year old cheese at the back of a fridge, making it more difficult to add 
features next year.

That said, allowing a site to be unusable in IE6 is going to be alienating. 
Giving users some graceful degradation while making it known that they'll get 
normal functionality by spending 10 minutes upgrading is a better way to go. 
An example - I have a rounded corner generator that uses Imagick to create 
images on the fly (cached  for later use) - the images are 24 bit PNGs with an 
alpha channel - because I don't know what the background will be. In IE6, the 
user gets square boxes -- perfectly functional as they can still use the site 
-- when a client asks me about it I remind them of our upgrade path 
conversation. If they still want it I tell them they'll get something that'll 
be uglier than square boxes... and so on.

In the end, do you want to spend hours developing hacks for IE6 or just nicely 
push people into an upgrade path?

HTH
James


On Monday 04 August 2008 01:53:46 Joseph Taylor wrote:
 In the end IE6 isn't going to be 100% if you're using .png files.  Even
 the javascripts out there cause odd bugs - things like link over .png
 backgrounds not working etc.

 My advice and what I do in actual practice - use conditional comments to
 address IE6 and lower and replace all instances of .png with a .gif.

 Yes, it doesn't look as nice the .pngs, but then again everything looks
 like crap on them - just look at the non-aliased text!

 Joseph R. B. Taylor
 /Designer / Developer/
 --
 Sites by Joe, LLC
 /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
 Phone: (609) 335-3076
 Fax: (866) 301-8045
 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Сергей Кириченко wrote:
  not to use png with alpha in IE6 )
  just like  adobe.com (look at drop-down menu in different browsers)
 
  sri ni пишет:
  Hi All,
 
  What is the best *solution *for IE6 PNG issue?
 
  --
  Thanks,
  Srini Perumal
 




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Re: [WSG] Positioning was Extra white line on the top of my list

2008-08-03 Thread David Hucklesby
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 23:32:16 -0400, Michael Horowitz wrote:
 The live page is horowitzfamily.net.  I'm just learning positioning and this 
 seemed to
 work.  The issue as mentioned earlier was transparency in my image.

 however I am just learning to do css without tables and really don't know 
 what I
 should be doing for positioning.  Quite honestly in hacking around this 
 worked.  I'll
 be happy to get feedback on better techniques for the future


CSS gives you a lot of options for positioning elements on a page.
As with all design issues, the best choice is usually a compromise,
depending on what you want to achieve.

My first choice for positioning elements is often to use margins -
including negative margins on occasion. See this CommunityMX article
for more:

  http://www.communitymx.com/content/article.cfm?cid=b0029

Hope this helps.

Cordially,
David
--



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[WSG] Western Australia Web Awards

2008-08-03 Thread Gary Barber

Just to give people in Western Australia the heads up.

The WA Web Awards close this Thursday 7th August.

This awards comp is very much run on strict web standards and 
accessibility lines.   So it you have a site that was launched last 
financial year and its a gem of web standards... well I would be 
submitting it .


http://www.wawebawards.com.au/


--
Gary Barber
Freelance User Interaction Designer/ Information Architect

Web: radharc.com.au
blog: manwithnoblog.com



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[WSG] dl question

2008-08-03 Thread cf

Hi all,

I was under the impression a dl could only contain one dt and one  
or many dd's.


But I have just come across a piece of code that uses multiple dt's  
in the one dl


Upon further investigation, it seems this is legitimate  
practicebut does it make sense?!?!


Semantically, isn't the whole point of a dl to use definition data  
tags (dd's) to describe a definition title (dt)!? Does it make  
sense to have multiple definition titles in the same dl?! Or does it  
make more sense to have a seperate dl for each dt??

__
Christian Fagan
Fagan Design
fagandesign.com.au


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RE: [WSG] dl question

2008-08-03 Thread Tatham Oddie
DL = definition LIST

Just like you have multiple bullet points in a UL or OL, you can have
multiple entries in a DL. It's a perfectly valid use.


Thanks,

Tatham Oddie
call:+61414275989, call:+61280113982, skype:tathamoddie,
msn:[EMAIL PROTECTED], tatham.oddie.com.au

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 4 August 2008 1:20 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] dl question

Hi all,

I was under the impression a dl could only contain one dt and one  
or many dd's.

But I have just come across a piece of code that uses multiple dt's  
in the one dl

Upon further investigation, it seems this is legitimate  
practicebut does it make sense?!?!

Semantically, isn't the whole point of a dl to use definition data  
tags (dd's) to describe a definition title (dt)!? Does it make  
sense to have multiple definition titles in the same dl?! Or does it  
make more sense to have a seperate dl for each dt??
__
Christian Fagan
Fagan Design
fagandesign.com.au


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Re: [WSG] dl question

2008-08-03 Thread Blake
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 1:20 PM,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Semantically, isn't the whole point of a dl to use definition data tags
 (dd's) to describe a definition title (dt)!? Does it make sense to have
 multiple definition titles in the same dl?! Or does it make more sense to
 have a seperate dl for each dt??

A DL is a definition LIST - a list of definitions. Multiple terms and
definitions makes perfect sense.


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Re: [WSG] What is the best solution for IE6 png issue?

2008-08-03 Thread Lewis, Matthew


as to say look at the theory of developing specifics for IE6. There is a 
gaining movement around to start phasing out IE6 support - look at 37signals, 
I think they begin IE6 phase out this week or next. They've done their maths 
and taken a gamble. Hopefully it'll spark something.

[snip...]
In the end, do you want to spend hours developing hacks for IE6 or just nicely 
push people into an upgrade path?
  
OT and not much to do with IE6 .png solutions but instead, the ongoing 
support of IE6 aspect of this thread.


I was advised by a lesser Microsoft management bot that many corporate 
organisations have a 'latest minus one' policy, which means only running 
up to the previous version of any current browser. This will hopefully 
mean that when IE8 is fully released many corporate techs will then 
upgrade to IE7, ideally resulting in a bulk upgrade of the costly IE6.


I hope this has some truth.


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Re: [WSG] dl question

2008-08-03 Thread Kevin Futter
On 4/08/08 1:20 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi all,
 
 I was under the impression a dl could only contain one dt and one
 or many dd's.
 
 But I have just come across a piece of code that uses multiple dt's
 in the one dl
 
 Upon further investigation, it seems this is legitimate
 practicebut does it make sense?!?!
 
 Semantically, isn't the whole point of a dl to use definition data
 tags (dd's) to describe a definition title (dt)!? Does it make
 sense to have multiple definition titles in the same dl?! Or does it
 make more sense to have a seperate dl for each dt??

The point you probably haven't considered is that it's a definition *list* -
a list of things and their definitions. So, one dl can have as many dts
(and their attendant dds) as you like.

-- 
Kevin Futter
Webmaster, St. Bernard's College
http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/


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[WSG] Re: WSG Digest

2008-08-03 Thread cpitts
I am out of the office until August 4th and will not be able to access email 
regularly until my return. If this is urgent, please call me at 617 515 7579.


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Re: [WSG] What is the best solution for IE6 png issue?

2008-08-03 Thread Anton Babushkin
It has absolute truth. I work in the biggest state government department in
Australia and we have that exact minus one policy, which means never being
at the bleeding edge.

There are tons and tons of in house applications that have (sadly) been
built around the IE6 platform, which would be an absolute disaster for the
department if IE7 was suddenly rolled out. Its not as simple as upgrading
your home PC or your local internet cafe. This is a very similar story to
many other companies and deparments Australia and World Wide.

The recent embarkement by 37 signals to phase out IE6 is not going to spark
anything. They're a small development company and don't have a large
customer base around IE6 and don't have a large influence on the general
population - rather only on the developmental community.

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 2:04 PM, Lewis, Matthew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


  as to say look at the theory of developing specifics for IE6. There is a
 gaining movement around to start phasing out IE6 support - look at
 37signals, I think they begin IE6 phase out this week or next. They've done
 their maths and taken a gamble. Hopefully it'll spark something.
 [snip...]
 In the end, do you want to spend hours developing hacks for IE6 or just
 nicely push people into an upgrade path?


 OT and not much to do with IE6 .png solutions but instead, the ongoing
 support of IE6 aspect of this thread.

 I was advised by a lesser Microsoft management bot that many corporate
 organisations have a 'latest minus one' policy, which means only running up
 to the previous version of any current browser. This will hopefully mean
 that when IE8 is fully released many corporate techs will then upgrade to
 IE7, ideally resulting in a bulk upgrade of the costly IE6.

 I hope this has some truth.


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-- 
- Anton Babushkin


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RE: [WSG] What is the best solution for IE6 png issue?

2008-08-03 Thread Jason Turnbull
Anton Babushkin wrote: 

 It has absolute truth. I work in the biggest state government 
 department in Australia and we have that exact minus one policy, 
 which means never being at the bleeding edge.

 There are tons and tons of in house applications that have (sadly) 
 been built around the IE6 platform, which would be an absolute 
 disaster for the department if IE7 was suddenly rolled out

If there was truly a 'minus one' policy they would only started developing
for IE6, when IE7 was released

Regards
Jason Turnbull




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Re: [WSG] What is the best solution for IE6 png issue?

2008-08-03 Thread Anton Babushkin
Yes, true. But there are always special case scenarios.

It mainly adopted IE6 as the platform of choice due to the Operating System
that they rolled out across the department (Windows XP).

There never is a trully anything if you look at it from one direction :)

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 3:38 PM, Jason Turnbull [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:

 Anton Babushkin wrote:

  It has absolute truth. I work in the biggest state government
  department in Australia and we have that exact minus one policy,
  which means never being at the bleeding edge.

  There are tons and tons of in house applications that have (sadly)
  been built around the IE6 platform, which would be an absolute
  disaster for the department if IE7 was suddenly rolled out

 If there was truly a 'minus one' policy they would only started developing
 for IE6, when IE7 was released

 Regards
 Jason Turnbull




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-- 
- Anton Babushkin


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RE: [WSG] What is the best solution for IE6 png issue?

2008-08-03 Thread Phillips, Wendy
I would agree. When you have over 20,000 employees and multiple legacy systems, 
upgrading an OS is a really big deal and you will always be behind the pack. 
Staff don't have the choice or ability to upgrade.


WP


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lewis, Matthew
Sent: Monday, 4 August 2008 2:05 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] What is the best solution for IE6 png issue?


 as to say look at the theory of developing specifics for IE6. There is 
 a gaining movement around to start phasing out IE6 support - look at 
 37signals, I think they begin IE6 phase out this week or next. They've 
 done their maths and taken a gamble. Hopefully it'll spark something.
 [snip...]
 In the end, do you want to spend hours developing hacks for IE6 or 
 just nicely push people into an upgrade path?
   
OT and not much to do with IE6 .png solutions but instead, the ongoing support 
of IE6 aspect of this thread.

I was advised by a lesser Microsoft management bot that many corporate 
organisations have a 'latest minus one' policy, which means only running up to 
the previous version of any current browser. This will hopefully mean that when 
IE8 is fully released many corporate techs will then upgrade to IE7, ideally 
resulting in a bulk upgrade of the costly IE6.

I hope this has some truth.


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