RE: [WSG] Figures out issues. Standards for troubleshooting css

2008-09-01 Thread michael.brockington
Many people have some sort of reset stylesheet, that turns on a border for every div or every element. The 'perfect' version of this idea can get very complex, but something as simple as setting a border on all divs can often show you where something is stretching or floating where you were not

RE: [WSG] E649: The default scripting language must be specified for an intrinsic event:

2008-09-01 Thread michael.brockington
I think you will find that this has no direct effect on accessibility. As I am sure you know, if you rely on these methods for navigation, or if that select isn't made keyboard-friendly, then that is a problem, but inline JavaScript on its own is fine. In some circumstances it is better to have it

Re: [WSG] Figures out issues. Standards for troubleshooting css

2008-09-01 Thread designer
Hi Mike (and all), I also find outline : 1px dashed #f00; very useful as, unlike 'border' it doesn't add any extra pixels. (However, It doesn't work in IE, of course.) Bob www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org

[WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE

2008-09-01 Thread David McKinnon
Hi, For a while now, I've been operating on the principle Code for Firefox, hack for IE. That is, writing CSS for the most standards-compliant browser, and then making adjustments for non-standard behaviour. I said this in a meeting last week to argue a point and my boss said who says?.

Re: [WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE

2008-09-01 Thread Rob Enslin
Hi David, Good question you raise. This's how I've been working for years - design for the most standards-compliant browser, FF. Could it be that we code for FF because it's easier to debug (Firebug)? Or perhaps, that most designers hear of/read articles about IE hacks assuming that it's the

RE: [WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE

2008-09-01 Thread michael.brockington
This is how I work, but mainly for pragmatic reasons: Better JavaScript de-bugging tools in FireFox. Better CSS support, therefore fewer problems out of the box, and better stylesheet analysis tools. Finally, the one good reason: anything that needs to be fixed for IE can be done with conditional

Re: [WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE

2008-09-01 Thread David Storey
If coding for the most standards compliant browser, then hack for IE, then you wouldn't code for FF first. Maybe third. It however comes with the best developer tools on the market, which makes it easier to developer for, and that comes from someone that is working as the product manager

Re: [WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE

2008-09-01 Thread Ben Buchanan
For a while now, I've been operating on the principle Code for Firefox, hack for IE. That is, writing CSS for the most standards-compliant browser, and then making adjustments for non-standard behaviour. Is this the way anyone works? Is it the best way to work? I use basically the same

Re: [WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE

2008-09-01 Thread kevin_erickson
I have also read and believe that you code correctly and, yes, the browsers that are web standard compliant should not need any hacks. However there will most likely be the need for IE6 hacks. --- Original Message --- From:David McKinnon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent:Mon 9/1/08 6:55 am

RE: [WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE

2008-09-01 Thread Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd
I would say code for standards at the end of the day, because standard is really the minimum requirement, once that's ticked off then code/hack for other browsers. Can't say I've read it anywhere but my web sites certainly look, work and load a lot better since I've started following that process.

Re: [WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE

2008-09-01 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
David McKinnon wrote: For a while now, I've been operating on the principle Code for Firefox, hack for IE. Is this the way anyone works? Apart from that I code for the most standard compliant browsers (plural) at present time, and then hack for various IE versions, I think I'll go along

Re: [WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE

2008-09-01 Thread willdonovan
I would have to agree with the others here. Coding for / with FF is easier because of the debugging tools (i.e. Firebug, Web Developer Toolbar, etc) Otherwise I have atleast 4 other browsers open, all the popular IE's (5.5, 6, 7 soon 8) and Opera. I do find that Opera can give a good idea

Re: [WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE

2008-09-01 Thread willdonovan
I started learning hacks, and now don't use them at all. I find that if I'm attempting to make the site cross browser, try not to make the CSS too complicated. William David Storey wrote: If coding for the most standards compliant browser, then hack for IE, then you wouldn't code for FF

Re: [WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE

2008-09-01 Thread Rick Lecoat
On 1 Sep 2008, at 12:27, Ben Buchanan wrote: I use basically the same approach, but I code for Opera; checking in Firefox and Safari. Then hack for IE at the end. On very large builds I do the occasional check for IE as well just to make sure things haven't gone really badly wrong in IE in

Re: [WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE

2008-09-01 Thread info
Hi David, I wouldnt say that I code for Firefox, more that I code in immaculate standards compliant code and that it seems to work best in Firefox, Safari and Opera ;) You are right though - make for standard complient browsers and then use conditional statements for IE. Most of the time

Re: [WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE

2008-09-01 Thread huzairy rezuan
I think that I've read about this in Andy Clarke's Transcending CSS book. Maybe it's under the Progressive Enhancement approach. On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 9:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi David, I wouldnt say that I code for Firefox, more that I code in immaculate standards compliant code

Re: [WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE

2008-09-01 Thread Joseph Taylor
My 2 cents: I've been coding CSS layouts since 2003. I've probably laid out several hundred sites at this point. Today, I always code on FF first (yes for the tools). Yes, Opera renders a little more accurately. Once you learn little CSS tricks to stabilize floated items, their

[WSG] Lisa Kerrigan/StateDevPolicy/DSD is out of the office.

2008-09-01 Thread lisa . kerrigan
I will be out of the office starting 02/09/2008 and will not return until 03/09/2008. For Content Requests contact Jason Rhodes. For all other queries, contact Wendy Pryor ** Department of Innovation, Industry and Regional

Re: [WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE

2008-09-01 Thread David Hucklesby
On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 20:55:07 +1000, David McKinnon wrote: For a while now, I've been operating on the principle Code for Firefox, hack for IE. Interesting thread. I learned CSS from Eric Meyer on CSS books. He gives several ideas for avoiding browser bugs and related hacks altogether. FWIW

[WSG] doctype validation and jello layout in ie issues

2008-09-01 Thread kevin mcmonagle
Hi im developing a site and have a couple problems. www.pattersonskitchens.ie First I cant get the doctype to validate, not sure why 2nd: cant get the expanding/repeating background div on left hand side to work in ie. theres a few other issues but these are the two that have me stuck.

Re: [WSG] doctype validation and jello layout in ie issues

2008-09-01 Thread Luke Hoggett
Hi, the doctype belongs outside the html and head tags. also you probably won't get it to validate with p tags wrapped around individual elements of a definition list cheers Luke kevin mcmonagle wrote: Hi im developing a site and have a couple problems. www.pattersonskitchens.ie First I

[WSG] Facebook downgrading support for IE6

2008-09-01 Thread Susie Gardner-Brown
I came upon this - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2008/08/27/facebook-doesnt-really-support-ie6 If Facebook (or the Œnew¹ Facebook look) is doing this, maybe it will really start to move IE6 out the door ... One can only hope anyway!! +++ Susie Gardner-Brown blog: http://susiegb/blogspot.com

Re: [WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE

2008-09-01 Thread Nathan de Vries
On Mon, 2008-09-01 at 22:09 +1000, willdonovan wrote: I do find that Opera can give a good idea of what might be happening with Safari if your a PC user... Safari has been available for Windows for a little while now. -- Nathan de Vries

Re: [WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE

2008-09-01 Thread willdonovan
I thought that was the case but does it render the same. FF renders quite differently I find across PC, Mac and Lynx. William Nathan de Vries wrote: On Mon, 2008-09-01 at 22:09 +1000, willdonovan wrote: I do find that Opera can give a good idea of what might be happening with Safari if

Re: [WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE

2008-09-01 Thread Al Sparber
From: willdonovan [EMAIL PROTECTED] I thought that was the case but does it render the same. FF renders quite differently I find across PC, Mac and Lynx. Safari does have some bugs (what browser doesn't?) but, in my experience, the largest area of concern for certain types of layouts, is in

[WSG] Google chrome... Coming very soon...

2008-09-01 Thread russ - maxdesign
Some of the many comments about the proposed new Google browser... http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2008/09/fresh-take-on-browser.html http://blogoscoped.com/google-chrome/ http://blogoscoped.com/archive/2008-09-01-n47.html http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10029914-2.html