[WSG] Find your way through standards legal docs

2008-09-26 Thread Jessica Enders

[Apologies for cross-postings]

The Canberra Information Architects group is having a very special  
speaker at their upcoming Cocktail Hour on Thursday 2 October. The  
session will be relevant to anyone having to make sense of legal or  
compliance documents, such as standards and guidelines, and as such  
we thought the folk on this mailing list might be interested.


Details below:



The next Canberra IA Cocktail Hour is Thursday 2 October 2008. We are  
delighted to have Nathan McDonald, Service Director of the Mustor  
Institute, coming down from Sydney especially to speak to us.


The Mustor Institute works hard to make the complex world of  
regulation, business, contracts etc accessible for, and  
understandable by, all through their novel “Regulatory DNA (MIS  
1000)” approach. This system for navigating through these difficult  
domains has been described as “revolutionary” and “one of the most  
exciting developments”.


Nathan will demonstrate the clarity and simplicity provided by the  
DNA method using examples such as:


* NSW Building Industry payment regulations;
* Austrac Anti Money Laundering and Counter Terrorism Financing  
(AML/CTF) regulations;

* Australian Department of Defence contracts; and
* Australian Taxation Office regulations.

The session aims to be interactive and practical, so we want you to  
submit examples of the legal texts that you have to work with (e.g.  
contracts, policies, regulations and agreements). Nathan will use  
these as an exercise and point of discussion. Send your examples,  
preferably in Word or RTF format, to jessica [at] formulate [dot] com  
[dot] au by close of business on Monday 1 October.


Join us for what’s guaranteed to be a thought-provoking and  
fascinating meeting. You’re also welcome to come for an informal  
dinner afterwards in Manuka/Kingston.


Time: 17:30-19:00
Day/Date: Thursday 2 October 2008
Venue: Stamford Interactive
Level 1
301 Canberra Avenue (right near Officeworks)
Fyshwick

Please RSVP to [facibus AT gmail DOT com] as soon as possible for  
catering purposes.




Cheers


Jessica Enders
Principal
Formulate Information Design

http://formulate.com.au

Phone: (02) 6116 8765
Fax: (02) 8456 5916
PO Box 5108
Braddon ACT 2612




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Re: [WSG] contentEditable

2008-09-26 Thread Breton Slivka
I don't mind so much about the javascript thing myself, my problem is
that contentEditable areas don't generate onChange events like form
elements do, so they are very difficult to script properly

On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Robin Gorry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Ok, this is an in-house project so this may not be a problem but an
 excellent point.



 Robin Gorry
 Senior Web Developer
 Xplore Net Solutions

 Xplore.net Website of the Week:  Weleda (Australia) - www.weleda.com.au

 Weleda has a range of anthroposophic medicine - the simple yet powerful way
 to utilise nature's medicines to stimulate the body to 'heal itself'.  Until
 recently their website did not accurately reflect their brand and they had
 no easy way to profile their product range to their Australian consumers.


 The new Weleda website is powered by the Xsite content manager, Xforms,
 Xshop, Xmembers and Xtend. Combined, this powerful toolset enables Weleda
 staff to add/edit/delete pages, text and imagery throughout their site,
 create online forms and surveys, provide an online product catalogue and
 issue logins to restricted access areas on their website.

 f:  00 64 (0)6 834 24 86
 e : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 w: www.xplore.net


 Take control of your website - ask me today about Xsite-tomorrows Content
 Management System

 CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may
 also be privileged.
 If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and
 do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose, or
 store or copy the information in any medium.

 

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Adam Martin
 Sent: 26 September 2008 15:18
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: [WSG] contentEditable



 The issue with this approach is that it is not part of a form - so the only
 way to submit it will be too use javascript which is an issue if javascript
 is not enabled.

 - Original Message -

 From: Robin Gorry

 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org

 Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 1:06 PM

 Subject: [WSG] contentEditable



 I am putting together an in-house application and I want to have editable
 areas on html template. I have come across what I think is a de facto
 standard across most browsers and that is the contentEdiatble attribute.

 I have tested it and it works in ff3, ie6 +,  opera 9.52, windows safari
 3.1.2.



 Has anyone had any experience or problems with using this attribute? Here is
 the code if anyone would like to test.



 !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN
 http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd;

 html

 head

 meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=utf-8

 titleUntitled Document/title

 /head



 body



 div contentEditable this is my editable div (or is it) /div

 /body

 /html



 Any comments would be most welcome.



 Robin Gorry
 Senior Web Developer
 Xplore Net Solutions

 Xplore.net Website of the Week:  Weleda (Australia) - www.weleda.com.au

 Weleda has a range of anthroposophic medicine - the simple yet powerful way
 to utilise nature's medicines to stimulate the body to 'heal itself'.  Until
 recently their website did not accurately reflect their brand and they had
 no easy way to profile their product range to their Australian consumers.


 The new Weleda website is powered by the Xsite content manager, Xforms,
 Xshop, Xmembers and Xtend. Combined, this powerful toolset enables Weleda
 staff to add/edit/delete pages, text and imagery throughout their site,
 create online forms and surveys, provide an online product catalogue and
 issue logins to restricted access areas on their website.

 f:  00 64 (0)6 834 24 86
 e : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 w: www.xplore.net


 Take control of your website - ask me today about Xsite-tomorrows Content
 Management System

 CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may
 also be privileged.
 If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and
 do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose, or
 store or copy the information in any medium.



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[WSG] Uppercase Tag Names

2008-09-26 Thread James Jeffery
I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase text for
tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because otherwise I
will lose a mark.

I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said you need
to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01.

I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I didn't
really want to argue with him because he assumes I know nothing. I do know
that the source code has become difficult to read using that method.


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Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names

2008-09-26 Thread Svip
2008/9/26 James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase text for
 tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because otherwise I
 will lose a mark.

 I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said you need
 to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01.

 I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I didn't
 really want to argue with him because he assumes I know nothing. I do know
 that the source code has become difficult to read using that method.


I may sound a bit rebel, but if it was up to me, I would tell him to get out
of the 90s, screw the mark.  Then again, I have some very strange morals and
such.  Beliefs, I suppose you can call them.

However, if I can thoroughly argue for my case, I'd do it.  And usually I
can.

And I don't think the standard actually says you should write the tag names
in uppercase, in fact, as far as I recall W3C suggests the exact opposite,
*also* for HTML 4.01.

Regards,
Svip


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Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names

2008-09-26 Thread Mike at Green-Beast.com

Hi James,


they said to use uppercase text for
tag names and lowercase for attributes.
I have to do it because otherwise I
will lose a mark.


That's a shame they're enforcing that. In HTML 4.01 either upper or 
lowercase is acceptable, but uppercase usage isn't forward-compatible into 
more modern doctypes. In general it's frowned upon and not considered a best 
practice.


I guess you have to live with it for school; you don't want to anger the 
master and all that, but then again if others chime in with what I'm saying, 
perhaps a slew of anonymous forwarded emails to the poers-that-be might be 
for the general good.


Respectfully,
Mike Cherim
http://green-beast.com 




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Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names

2008-09-26 Thread Luke Hoggett
Write you markup in lowercase then parse it with a regex into  
uppercase before you hand it in.


Really the uppercase is fine just bad style especially if you're  
moving on to XHTML.




On 26/09/2008, at 21:38, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:


I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase  
text for tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it  
because otherwise I will lose a mark.


I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said  
you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01.


I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I  
didn't really want to argue with him because he assumes I know  
nothing. I do know that the source code has become difficult to read  
using that method.



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Re: [WSG] semantics of a simple form

2008-09-26 Thread Drew Trusz
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 4:28 PM, kevin mcmonagle
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 im not an expert on this but should there be a fieldset or legend around
 this?
 not even sure if it qualifies as a form, although it has a submit button.



The reference about forms is:
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html

If you are going to see this as a form you are goping to have to
rewrite it to include labels and other requirements. All in the specs.

The basic purpose of the form element, as found in the above cited
Chapt 17 Form, is

The FORM element acts as a container for controls. It specifies:

* The layout of the form (given by the contents of the element).
* The program that will handle the completed and submitted form
(the action attribute). The receiving program must be able to parse
name/value pairs in order to make use of them.
* The method by which user data will be sent to the server (the
method attribute).
* A character encoding that must be accepted by the server in
order to handle this form (the accept-charset attribute). User agents
may advise the user of the value of the accept-charset attribute
and/or restrict the user's ability to enter unrecognized characters.

A form can contain text and markup (paragraphs, lists, etc.) in
addition to form controls.

While it is possible that the check-in-check-out is truly a header, it
seems unlikely. It feels like a text sizing issue and that should be
done through css not mangled headers. I realize you may have no
control over that but it seems worth mentioning.


drew


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Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names

2008-09-26 Thread Tony McNulty
Hi James,

While not a good practice, there may be the ulterior motive of the teacher to 
get you used to conforming to other people's standards. In the workplace, you 
will have to do this too - you may find yourself in similar situations, where 
you have to maintain legacy systems, where converted the mass of old 
code/markup isn't practical. 

It's more likely that the teacher is stuck in the nineties, but it's a good 
exercise nonetheless. Definitely recommend that he chooses better practices in 
your submission or end of course feedback though, but don't rebel :-D 

Cheers,

Tony
-Original Message-
From: James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:38:39 
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names


I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase text for
tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because otherwise I
will lose a mark.

I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said you need
to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01.

I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I didn't
really want to argue with him because he assumes I know nothing. I do know
that the source code has become difficult to read using that method.


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2008-09-26 Thread Diamond, Robyn - AQISACT
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Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names

2008-09-26 Thread Todd Budnikas
it's irrelevant according to HTML 4 how you write the tags, so on one  
front, your instructor is ok to say you should code that way (as it  
does conform) but you have every right to say that he's *incorrect*  
when saying you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. Tough  
spot to voice your opinion perhaps, but you're not wrong, and i would  
agree about your readability statement which might be a good point to  
make, since it can be written either way. Heck, it might be easier to  
use upper and lowercase:

http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/structure.html#elements

Also, attributes *names* (ie. WIDTH) are case-insensitive but  
attribute values may be case-sensitive.





From: James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:38:39 +0100
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names

I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase  
text for tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it  
because otherwise I will lose a mark.


I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said  
you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01.


I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I  
didn't really want to argue with him because he assumes I know  
nothing. I do know that the source code has become difficult to read  
using that method.



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Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: [WSG] semantics of a simple form

2008-09-26 Thread kevin mcmonagle

Hi Drew,
Thanks for the feedback.
The aspx programmer is open to standards and may be receptive to my advice.


how about this:

fieldset

legendRoom Search/legend
div class=checkin
labelCheck-in Date:/label
select name=...
option value=101/option
/select 
..

/div
div class=checkout
label for=...Check-out Date:/label
select name=...
./select
div class=button
input type=submit name=... value=Search id=... /
/div
/div
/fieldset

...allthough when i look at it this nearly feels like a list to me... 


-best
kevin

Drew Trusz wrote:



While it is possible that the check-in-check-out is truly a header, it
seems unlikely. It feels like a text sizing issue and that should be
done through css not mangled headers. I realize you may have no
control over that but it seems worth mentioning.


drew
  





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Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names

2008-09-26 Thread Anthony
It's no wonder students are coming out with such strange ideals. Tell  
him WSG says so.


Regards,
Anthony.

Sent from my iPhone!

On 26/09/2008, at 10:40 PM, Todd Budnikas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

it's irrelevant according to HTML 4 how you write the tags, so on  
one front, your instructor is ok to say you should code that way (as  
it does conform) but you have every right to say that he's  
*incorrect* when saying you need to so that you can conform to HTML  
4.01. Tough spot to voice your opinion perhaps, but you're not  
wrong, and i would agree about your readability statement which  
might be a good point to make, since it can be written either way.  
Heck, it might be easier to use upper and lowercase:

http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/structure.html#elements

Also, attributes *names* (ie. WIDTH) are case-insensitive but  
attribute values may be case-sensitive.





From: James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:38:39 +0100
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names

I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase  
text for tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it  
because otherwise I will lose a mark.


I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said  
you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01.


I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs.  
I didn't really want to argue with him because he assumes I know  
nothing. I do know that the source code has become difficult to  
read using that method.


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Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names

2008-09-26 Thread Tim Offenstein
I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase text 
for tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because 
otherwise I will lose a mark.


I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said 
you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01.


I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I 
didn't really want to argue with him because he assumes I know 
nothing. I do know that the source code has become difficult to read 
using that method.



James,

I think you're right to disagree, particularly since HTML 4.01 does 
not specify case (and besides the fact that HTML 4.01 is suppose to 
be the precursor to XHTML which *does* specify case for code). 
Ironically I used to code entirely in uppercase with the rationale 
that it made the code easier to differentiate from content.


I would base my argument on the specifications of XHTML which is the 
newer, more modern DTD. Why train ourselves to use outdated methods?


My .02.

-Tim
--

   Tim Offenstein  ***  Campus Accessibility Liaison  ***  (217) 244-2700
CITES Departmental Services  ***  www.uiuc.edu/goto/offenstein


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