[WSG] Find your way through standards legal docs
[Apologies for cross-postings] The Canberra Information Architects group is having a very special speaker at their upcoming Cocktail Hour on Thursday 2 October. The session will be relevant to anyone having to make sense of legal or compliance documents, such as standards and guidelines, and as such we thought the folk on this mailing list might be interested. Details below: The next Canberra IA Cocktail Hour is Thursday 2 October 2008. We are delighted to have Nathan McDonald, Service Director of the Mustor Institute, coming down from Sydney especially to speak to us. The Mustor Institute works hard to make the complex world of regulation, business, contracts etc accessible for, and understandable by, all through their novel “Regulatory DNA (MIS 1000)” approach. This system for navigating through these difficult domains has been described as “revolutionary” and “one of the most exciting developments”. Nathan will demonstrate the clarity and simplicity provided by the DNA method using examples such as: * NSW Building Industry payment regulations; * Austrac Anti Money Laundering and Counter Terrorism Financing (AML/CTF) regulations; * Australian Department of Defence contracts; and * Australian Taxation Office regulations. The session aims to be interactive and practical, so we want you to submit examples of the legal texts that you have to work with (e.g. contracts, policies, regulations and agreements). Nathan will use these as an exercise and point of discussion. Send your examples, preferably in Word or RTF format, to jessica [at] formulate [dot] com [dot] au by close of business on Monday 1 October. Join us for what’s guaranteed to be a thought-provoking and fascinating meeting. You’re also welcome to come for an informal dinner afterwards in Manuka/Kingston. Time: 17:30-19:00 Day/Date: Thursday 2 October 2008 Venue: Stamford Interactive Level 1 301 Canberra Avenue (right near Officeworks) Fyshwick Please RSVP to [facibus AT gmail DOT com] as soon as possible for catering purposes. Cheers Jessica Enders Principal Formulate Information Design http://formulate.com.au Phone: (02) 6116 8765 Fax: (02) 8456 5916 PO Box 5108 Braddon ACT 2612 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] contentEditable
I don't mind so much about the javascript thing myself, my problem is that contentEditable areas don't generate onChange events like form elements do, so they are very difficult to script properly On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Robin Gorry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, this is an in-house project so this may not be a problem but an excellent point. Robin Gorry Senior Web Developer Xplore Net Solutions Xplore.net Website of the Week: Weleda (Australia) - www.weleda.com.au Weleda has a range of anthroposophic medicine - the simple yet powerful way to utilise nature's medicines to stimulate the body to 'heal itself'. Until recently their website did not accurately reflect their brand and they had no easy way to profile their product range to their Australian consumers. The new Weleda website is powered by the Xsite content manager, Xforms, Xshop, Xmembers and Xtend. Combined, this powerful toolset enables Weleda staff to add/edit/delete pages, text and imagery throughout their site, create online forms and surveys, provide an online product catalogue and issue logins to restricted access areas on their website. f: 00 64 (0)6 834 24 86 e : [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: www.xplore.net Take control of your website - ask me today about Xsite-tomorrows Content Management System CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Martin Sent: 26 September 2008 15:18 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] contentEditable The issue with this approach is that it is not part of a form - so the only way to submit it will be too use javascript which is an issue if javascript is not enabled. - Original Message - From: Robin Gorry To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 1:06 PM Subject: [WSG] contentEditable I am putting together an in-house application and I want to have editable areas on html template. I have come across what I think is a de facto standard across most browsers and that is the contentEdiatble attribute. I have tested it and it works in ff3, ie6 +, opera 9.52, windows safari 3.1.2. Has anyone had any experience or problems with using this attribute? Here is the code if anyone would like to test. !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd; html head meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=utf-8 titleUntitled Document/title /head body div contentEditable this is my editable div (or is it) /div /body /html Any comments would be most welcome. Robin Gorry Senior Web Developer Xplore Net Solutions Xplore.net Website of the Week: Weleda (Australia) - www.weleda.com.au Weleda has a range of anthroposophic medicine - the simple yet powerful way to utilise nature's medicines to stimulate the body to 'heal itself'. Until recently their website did not accurately reflect their brand and they had no easy way to profile their product range to their Australian consumers. The new Weleda website is powered by the Xsite content manager, Xforms, Xshop, Xmembers and Xtend. Combined, this powerful toolset enables Weleda staff to add/edit/delete pages, text and imagery throughout their site, create online forms and surveys, provide an online product catalogue and issue logins to restricted access areas on their website. f: 00 64 (0)6 834 24 86 e : [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: www.xplore.net Take control of your website - ask me today about Xsite-tomorrows Content Management System CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[WSG] Uppercase Tag Names
I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase text for tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because otherwise I will lose a mark. I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I didn't really want to argue with him because he assumes I know nothing. I do know that the source code has become difficult to read using that method. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names
2008/9/26 James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase text for tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because otherwise I will lose a mark. I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I didn't really want to argue with him because he assumes I know nothing. I do know that the source code has become difficult to read using that method. I may sound a bit rebel, but if it was up to me, I would tell him to get out of the 90s, screw the mark. Then again, I have some very strange morals and such. Beliefs, I suppose you can call them. However, if I can thoroughly argue for my case, I'd do it. And usually I can. And I don't think the standard actually says you should write the tag names in uppercase, in fact, as far as I recall W3C suggests the exact opposite, *also* for HTML 4.01. Regards, Svip *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names
Hi James, they said to use uppercase text for tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because otherwise I will lose a mark. That's a shame they're enforcing that. In HTML 4.01 either upper or lowercase is acceptable, but uppercase usage isn't forward-compatible into more modern doctypes. In general it's frowned upon and not considered a best practice. I guess you have to live with it for school; you don't want to anger the master and all that, but then again if others chime in with what I'm saying, perhaps a slew of anonymous forwarded emails to the poers-that-be might be for the general good. Respectfully, Mike Cherim http://green-beast.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names
Write you markup in lowercase then parse it with a regex into uppercase before you hand it in. Really the uppercase is fine just bad style especially if you're moving on to XHTML. On 26/09/2008, at 21:38, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase text for tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because otherwise I will lose a mark. I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I didn't really want to argue with him because he assumes I know nothing. I do know that the source code has become difficult to read using that method. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] semantics of a simple form
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 4:28 PM, kevin mcmonagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: im not an expert on this but should there be a fieldset or legend around this? not even sure if it qualifies as a form, although it has a submit button. The reference about forms is: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html If you are going to see this as a form you are goping to have to rewrite it to include labels and other requirements. All in the specs. The basic purpose of the form element, as found in the above cited Chapt 17 Form, is The FORM element acts as a container for controls. It specifies: * The layout of the form (given by the contents of the element). * The program that will handle the completed and submitted form (the action attribute). The receiving program must be able to parse name/value pairs in order to make use of them. * The method by which user data will be sent to the server (the method attribute). * A character encoding that must be accepted by the server in order to handle this form (the accept-charset attribute). User agents may advise the user of the value of the accept-charset attribute and/or restrict the user's ability to enter unrecognized characters. A form can contain text and markup (paragraphs, lists, etc.) in addition to form controls. While it is possible that the check-in-check-out is truly a header, it seems unlikely. It feels like a text sizing issue and that should be done through css not mangled headers. I realize you may have no control over that but it seems worth mentioning. drew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names
Hi James, While not a good practice, there may be the ulterior motive of the teacher to get you used to conforming to other people's standards. In the workplace, you will have to do this too - you may find yourself in similar situations, where you have to maintain legacy systems, where converted the mass of old code/markup isn't practical. It's more likely that the teacher is stuck in the nineties, but it's a good exercise nonetheless. Definitely recommend that he chooses better practices in your submission or end of course feedback though, but don't rebel :-D Cheers, Tony -Original Message- From: James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:38:39 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase text for tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because otherwise I will lose a mark. I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I didn't really want to argue with him because he assumes I know nothing. I do know that the source code has become difficult to read using that method. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
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Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names
it's irrelevant according to HTML 4 how you write the tags, so on one front, your instructor is ok to say you should code that way (as it does conform) but you have every right to say that he's *incorrect* when saying you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. Tough spot to voice your opinion perhaps, but you're not wrong, and i would agree about your readability statement which might be a good point to make, since it can be written either way. Heck, it might be easier to use upper and lowercase: http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/structure.html#elements Also, attributes *names* (ie. WIDTH) are case-insensitive but attribute values may be case-sensitive. From: James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:38:39 +0100 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase text for tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because otherwise I will lose a mark. I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I didn't really want to argue with him because he assumes I know nothing. I do know that the source code has become difficult to read using that method. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: [WSG] semantics of a simple form
Hi Drew, Thanks for the feedback. The aspx programmer is open to standards and may be receptive to my advice. how about this: fieldset legendRoom Search/legend div class=checkin labelCheck-in Date:/label select name=... option value=101/option /select .. /div div class=checkout label for=...Check-out Date:/label select name=... ./select div class=button input type=submit name=... value=Search id=... / /div /div /fieldset ...allthough when i look at it this nearly feels like a list to me... -best kevin Drew Trusz wrote: While it is possible that the check-in-check-out is truly a header, it seems unlikely. It feels like a text sizing issue and that should be done through css not mangled headers. I realize you may have no control over that but it seems worth mentioning. drew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names
It's no wonder students are coming out with such strange ideals. Tell him WSG says so. Regards, Anthony. Sent from my iPhone! On 26/09/2008, at 10:40 PM, Todd Budnikas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it's irrelevant according to HTML 4 how you write the tags, so on one front, your instructor is ok to say you should code that way (as it does conform) but you have every right to say that he's *incorrect* when saying you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. Tough spot to voice your opinion perhaps, but you're not wrong, and i would agree about your readability statement which might be a good point to make, since it can be written either way. Heck, it might be easier to use upper and lowercase: http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/structure.html#elements Also, attributes *names* (ie. WIDTH) are case-insensitive but attribute values may be case-sensitive. From: James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:38:39 +0100 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase text for tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because otherwise I will lose a mark. I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I didn't really want to argue with him because he assumes I know nothing. I do know that the source code has become difficult to read using that method. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names
I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase text for tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because otherwise I will lose a mark. I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I didn't really want to argue with him because he assumes I know nothing. I do know that the source code has become difficult to read using that method. James, I think you're right to disagree, particularly since HTML 4.01 does not specify case (and besides the fact that HTML 4.01 is suppose to be the precursor to XHTML which *does* specify case for code). Ironically I used to code entirely in uppercase with the rationale that it made the code easier to differentiate from content. I would base my argument on the specifications of XHTML which is the newer, more modern DTD. Why train ourselves to use outdated methods? My .02. -Tim -- Tim Offenstein *** Campus Accessibility Liaison *** (217) 244-2700 CITES Departmental Services *** www.uiuc.edu/goto/offenstein *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
