[WSG]WCAG 2.0 enlarging text to 200% ?
Hi, With WCAG 2.0 finally coming out yesterday - I was wondering how many ctrl + clicks in (firefox for example) 200% is? I would say it was 3 but some colleagues argue 2 or 4 ? Any suggestions? Kind Wishes Heather VALENTIN Serensites, Création de Sites Web Accessibles http://www.serensites.com http://blog.serensites.com Téléphone bureau: +33 (1) 60 35 98 70 Téléphone mobile: +33 (6) 80 57 82 44 Télécopie (Fax) : +33 (1) 60 36 06 53 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG]WCAG 2.0 enlarging text to 200% ?
Thanks for reply Patrick, very interesting - looking at that I do agree that it would be 6 steps according to the latest Firefox browser. I'm not really understanding this point very well and I'm not sure how this is measurable and testable across a wide range of platforms? What if the websites default size is set in percentage to 75% and then another website has default setting of 110%? --- Large scale (text) Note 4: When using text without specifying the font size, the smallest font size used on major browsers for unspecified text would be a reasonable size to assume for the font. If a level 1 heading is rendered in 14pt bold or higher on major browsers, then it would be reasonable to assume it is large text. Relative scaling can be calculated from the default sizes in a similar fashion. Heather -Message d'origine- De : li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] De la part de Patrick Lauke Envoyé : vendredi 12 décembre 2008 11:39 À : wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Objet : RE: [WSG]WCAG 2.0 enlarging text to 200% ? Heather With WCAG 2.0 finally coming out yesterday - I was wondering how many ctrl + clicks in (firefox for example) 200% is? I would say it was 3 but some colleagues argue 2 or 4 ? Any suggestions? I'd say conceptually that's quite a nitpicky argument...say a page broke spectacularly after 4 resize steps...would they then argue but it passes WCAG 2.0's SC, because it's 3 steps that go to 200%? Also, by default, Firefox 3 has whole page zoom (text, images and all) enabled, and has to explicitly be set to only resize text. With that said, go to about:config and look for toolkit.zoomManager.zoomValues, and this will show the various zoom factors at each step. In my case (which should be the default) these are: .3, .5, .67, .8, .9, 1, 1.1, 1.2, 1.33, 1.5, 1.7, 2, 2.4, 3 So, nominally 200% (which, according to the Understanding... bit for that SC, means 200%, that is, up to twice the width and height - so really a 400% increase in total area) is actually 6 steps, if you want to go purely by numbers. P Patrick H. Lauke Web Editor Enterprise Development University of Salford Room 113, Faraday House Salford, Greater Manchester M5 4WT UK T +44 (0) 161 295 4779 webmas...@salford.ac.uk www.salford.ac.uk A GREATER MANCHESTER UNIVERSITY *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG]WCAG 2.0 enlarging text to 200% ?
Heather With WCAG 2.0 finally coming out yesterday - I was wondering how many ctrl + clicks in (firefox for example) 200% is? I would say it was 3 but some colleagues argue 2 or 4 ? Any suggestions? I'd say conceptually that's quite a nitpicky argument...say a page broke spectacularly after 4 resize steps...would they then argue but it passes WCAG 2.0's SC, because it's 3 steps that go to 200%? Also, by default, Firefox 3 has whole page zoom (text, images and all) enabled, and has to explicitly be set to only resize text. With that said, go to about:config and look for toolkit.zoomManager.zoomValues, and this will show the various zoom factors at each step. In my case (which should be the default) these are: .3, .5, .67, .8, .9, 1, 1.1, 1.2, 1.33, 1.5, 1.7, 2, 2.4, 3 So, nominally 200% (which, according to the Understanding... bit for that SC, means 200%, that is, up to twice the width and height - so really a 400% increase in total area) is actually 6 steps, if you want to go purely by numbers. P Patrick H. Lauke Web Editor Enterprise Development University of Salford Room 113, Faraday House Salford, Greater Manchester M5 4WT UK T +44 (0) 161 295 4779 webmas...@salford.ac.uk www.salford.ac.uk A GREATER MANCHESTER UNIVERSITY *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG]WCAG 2.0 enlarging text to 200% ?
The way I read it, the 200% relates to 'twice the size the font appears at a client browser's default setting'. What if the websites default size is set in percentage to 75% and then another website has default setting of 110%? This 200% business is nothing to do with CSS font-size values. (Which depend on the absolute baseline size of the font on your site, set by either you of the browser's default) It's not measurable or testable. It's just there to highlight the fact that users need to (and want to) resize the font and that sites should allow them to do that. On 12/12/2008 11:19, Heather heat...@serensites.com wrote: Thanks for reply Patrick, very interesting - looking at that I do agree that it would be 6 steps according to the latest Firefox browser. I'm not really understanding this point very well and I'm not sure how this is measurable and testable across a wide range of platforms? What if the websites default size is set in percentage to 75% and then another website has default setting of 110%? --- Large scale (text) Note 4: When using text without specifying the font size, the smallest font size used on major browsers for unspecified text would be a reasonable size to assume for the font. If a level 1 heading is rendered in 14pt bold or higher on major browsers, then it would be reasonable to assume it is large text. Relative scaling can be calculated from the default sizes in a similar fashion. Heather -Message d'origine- De : li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] De la part de Patrick Lauke Envoyé : vendredi 12 décembre 2008 11:39 À : wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Objet : RE: [WSG]WCAG 2.0 enlarging text to 200% ? Heather With WCAG 2.0 finally coming out yesterday - I was wondering how many ctrl + clicks in (firefox for example) 200% is? I would say it was 3 but some colleagues argue 2 or 4 ? Any suggestions? I'd say conceptually that's quite a nitpicky argument...say a page broke spectacularly after 4 resize steps...would they then argue but it passes WCAG 2.0's SC, because it's 3 steps that go to 200%? Also, by default, Firefox 3 has whole page zoom (text, images and all) enabled, and has to explicitly be set to only resize text. With that said, go to about:config and look for toolkit.zoomManager.zoomValues, and this will show the various zoom factors at each step. In my case (which should be the default) these are: .3, .5, .67, .8, .9, 1, 1.1, 1.2, 1.33, 1.5, 1.7, 2, 2.4, 3 So, nominally 200% (which, according to the Understanding... bit for that SC, means 200%, that is, up to twice the width and height - so really a 400% increase in total area) is actually 6 steps, if you want to go purely by numbers. P Patrick H. Lauke Web Editor Enterprise Development University of Salford Room 113, Faraday House Salford, Greater Manchester M5 4WT UK T +44 (0) 161 295 4779 webmas...@salford.ac.uk www.salford.ac.uk A GREATER MANCHESTER UNIVERSITY *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** The information in this email and any of its attachments is intended solely for the addressees and is confidential. If you receive this message in error, please immediately notify the sender, destroy any copies and delete it from your computer system. The contents may contain information which is confidential and may also be privileged. Any part of this email may not be used, disseminated, forwarded, printed or copied without authorisation. Liability cannot be accepted for any statements, views or opinions made which are clearly the sender's own and not expressly made on behalf of any of the companies below. Global Radio UK Ltd (6251684), Global Radio Holdings Ltd. (4077052) Registered Office, 30 Leicester Square, London, WC2H 7LA This is Global Ltd (6288359) / Global Talent Group Ltd (3601691) / Global Talent Publishing Ltd (3509421) / Global Talent Management Ltd (4631297) / Global Talent Records Ltd (3598411) / Global Talent Music Ltd (5522116) / Global Talent TV Ltd (4506139) Registered Office, 73 Wimpole St, London. W1G 8AZ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
RE: [WSG]WCAG 2.0 enlarging text to 200% ?
Thanks everyone for your answers. I'm much less confused now as I think I had misinterpreted the SC. Kind Wishes Heather -Message d'origine- De : li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] De la part de Gunlaug Sørtun Envoyé : vendredi 12 décembre 2008 13:14 À : wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Objet : Re: [WSG]WCAG 2.0 enlarging text to 200% ? Heather wrote: I'm not really understanding this point very well and I'm not sure how this is measurable and testable across a wide range of platforms? What if the websites default size is set in percentage to 75% and then another website has default setting of 110%? Doesn't really matter as long as it can handle 200% resizing measured against a browser's own web page normal text defaults. --- Large scale (text) Note 4: When using text without specifying the font size, the smallest font size used on major browsers for unspecified text would be a reasonable size to assume for the font. If a level 1 heading is rendered in 14pt bold or higher on major browsers, then it would be reasonable to assume it is large text. Relative scaling can be calculated from the default sizes in a similar fashion. Web page normal text defaults to 16px on 96DPI screens in nearly all my browsers on that resolution. Checking default-settings on other resolutions is easy, as one only has to override, or ignore, a page's own font-size declarations and leave the browser's own settings at default. Checking web pages ability to handle browser-defaults, usually messes up a large number of pages too a point where further testing becomes a purely academical exercise. So, when I really want to test if a page can take 200% font resizing, I blow it up by setting minimum font size to around 32px on my screens - that's 200% of browser's own default at my end. I use use such testing to see if my own designs are reasonable accessible when put under stress. Of course, this blows most designed web pages apart to a point where content becomes covered up and inaccessible, and then it doesn't matter much if someone has figured out whether these pages meet a WCAG checkpoint or not. Too much font resizing? Well, maybe. At least one is somewhat on the safe side with regards to that particular WCAG2 guideline if a document survives reasonable well and remains accessible and usable. Once that test is over it is time to zoom the page and see what happens... regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] jquery ui.slider keyboard navigation question
It's more an accessibility question so I thought I am posting my question here. jQuery site claims that the ui.slider has keyboard navigation support. I tested in FF, Safari and Opera, the result varies. In FF and Opera, I needed to hold down Control Key with left/right arrow In Safari, left/right arrow works fine. http://dev.jquery.com/view/tags/ui/1.5b2/demos/ui.slider.html Two questions: 1) When we say keyboard navigation for website, is it common to expect only one keystroke for one task? 2) and that it applies to browsers that support tabbing navigation consistently? I can't figure from the code whether the different behaviors in above browsers are caused by the script or a browser default behavior. Thank you! tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] jquery ui.slider keyboard navigation question
It is understood that some tasks will require two keys, such as Alt + down arrow to open a combobox. I presume you are testing on a Mac because I see slightly different behaviour than you describe in Windows browsers. In both Internet Explorer 6 and Firefox 2.0 the arrow keys alone are sufficient to operate the sliders. However, if the window has a scrollbar, both the slider and the scrollbar move at the same time in both browsers. If the Ctrl key is used in addition to the arrow key, only the slider moves. Steve -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of tee Sent: 12 December 2008 16:46 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] jquery ui.slider keyboard navigation question It's more an accessibility question so I thought I am posting my question here. jQuery site claims that the ui.slider has keyboard navigation support. I tested in FF, Safari and Opera, the result varies. In FF and Opera, I needed to hold down Control Key with left/right arrow In Safari, left/right arrow works fine. http://dev.jquery.com/view/tags/ui/1.5b2/demos/ui.slider.html Two questions: 1) When we say keyboard navigation for website, is it common to expect only one keystroke for one task? 2) and that it applies to browsers that support tabbing navigation consistently? I can't figure from the code whether the different behaviors in above browsers are caused by the script or a browser default behavior. Thank you! tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Daniel Craddock/Person/DOJ is out of the office.
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[WSG] Dropmenu accessibility and layout problem IE6
Seeking input and layout assistance (IE6, what else).
I am considering using a Son of Suckerfish dropmenu for one item in my
main nav bar.
It is accessible to screenreaders but how - if it's even possible –
can it be made keyboard accessible?
For example, tab to the item in the menu hit another key(?) to open
the dropmenu tab to chosen submenu item hit enter.
http://htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/
Or is it wiser to forget the dropmenu approach altogether and have an
intermediary page offering the submenu choices?
Here is the page in development. See under 'Services'
http://members.iinet.com.au/~generator/chem/index-new.php
I work on a Mac and everything looks and functions perfectly in 5
different browsers. A colleague with IE7 has reported same. However,
the layout is screwed in IE6:
http://members.iinet.com.au/~generator/chem/grab.jpg
Notice the dropmenu pushes content below it downwards and other menu
items to the right. There also appears to be a problem with outer
margins of the main content (which I do not see via browsershots.org).
I have included the relevant css and js (both external files) below.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
TIA,
Henrik
-
The menu is in a div with this css:
#menu {
height: 24px;
width: 840px;
margin-left: 30px;
border-bottom: solid #636467 1px;
float: left;
margin-bottom: 30px;
display: inline;
}
The other css for the menu is:
#nav, #nav ul {
list-style: none;
padding: 0;
margin: 0;
line-height: 1;
}
#nav a {
display: block;
color: #636467;
font-size: 1.2em;
padding-bottom: 8px;
}
#nav a:hover {
color: #E96D1F;
}
#nav li {
float: left;
margin-right: 24px;
}
#nav li ul {
position: absolute;
left: -999em;
background-image: url(images/drop-bg.png);
background-repeat: repeat;
width: 170px;
}
#nav li li a {
color: #FF;
display: block;
padding-left: 8px;
padding-top: 6px;
padding-bottom: -2px;
width: 162px;
}
#nav li:hover ul, #nav li.sfhover ul {
left: auto;
}
-
And the javascript:
sfHover = function() {
var sfEls = document.getElementById(nav).getElementsByTagName(li);
for (var i=0; isfEls.length; i++) {
sfEls[i].onmouseover=function() {
this.className+= sfhover;
}
sfEls[i].onmouseout=function() {
this.className=this.className.replace(new RegExp( sfhover\\b),
);
}
}
}
if (window.attachEvent) window.attachEvent(onload, sfHover);
--
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[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
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Re: [WSG] Dropmenu accessibility and layout problem IE6
On Dec 12, 2008, at 3:56 PM, Henrik Madsen wrote: Seeking input and layout assistance (IE6, what else). I am considering using a Son of Suckerfish dropmenu for one item in my main nav bar. It is accessible to screenreaders but how - if it's even possible – can it be made keyboard accessible? For example, tab to the item in the menu hit another key(?) to open the dropmenu tab to chosen submenu item hit enter. Hi Henrik, for keyboard navigation support, you might want to try superfish instead. It's fully accessible with js turns off and very easy to implement. http://users.tpg.com.au/j_birch/plugins/superfish/ tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] list-style can't work with inline and float in IE?
I have two list items that must display horizontally. Wanting to use
list-style instead of background image, but in IE 6 and 7, the circle
style refuses to show up even I adjusted padding left (or margin).
ul.add-to li{ padding: 5px 10px 5px 0;list-style-type: circle;font-
size: .85em;float: left;color: #d9d49d;margin-right: 5px;}
Using display:inline also of no use.
If I add a 'float:none' in the CC for IE, than it works.
Is this a bug? None of the hasLayout triggers works. Did a google
search, couldn't find anything but the adjustment on padding or margin
left.
Thank you!
tee
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Re: [WSG] Dropmenu accessibility and layout problem IE6
Henrik Madsen wrote: Seeking input and layout assistance (IE6, what else). I am considering using a Son of Suckerfish dropmenu for one item in my main nav bar. It is accessible to screenreaders but how - if it's even possible – can it be made keyboard accessible? For example, tab to the item in the menu hit another key(?) to open the dropmenu tab to chosen submenu item hit enter. http://htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/ Having a hierarchical menu operate via the keyboard is, in my opinion, not the most accessible approach. This simple example page might provide some insight into how to apprach the accessibility of a dropdown or flyout menu: http://www.projectseven.com/products/menusystems/pmm2/ug-examples/accessible/ -- Al Sparber - PVII http://www.projectseven.com Fully Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets http://www.projectseven.com/go/Elevators *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
