RE: [WSG] IE and the button element
Which IS semantic and separates content (the link) from presentation (a button). On Mon, February 23, 2009 10:56 pm, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: On Tue, 24 Feb 2009, John Horner wrote: Thanks for all the discussion so far. It seems I'll have to re-code. I will definitely not be using Javascript. It seems entirely logical to me that there should be such a thing as a button, which can exist outside a form, which has an HREF attribute or can be wrapped in an anchor. Why? All you need do is style the anchor element. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster http://woodbine-gerrard.com = Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] IE and the button element
Which IS semantic and separates content (the link) from presentation (a button). On Mon, February 23, 2009 10:56 pm, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: On Tue, 24 Feb 2009, John Horner wrote: Thanks for all the discussion so far. It seems I'll have to re-code. I will definitely not be using Javascript. It seems entirely logical to me that there should be such a thing as a button, which can exist outside a form, which has an HREF attribute or can be wrapped in an anchor. Why? All you need do is style the anchor element. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster http://woodbine-gerrard.com = Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] DHTML Menus
Q. What is the percentage of population that does not have javascript enabled? A. 100% of search engine spiders. So if you don't want your site fully spidered. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] IE and the button element
On Tue, 24 Feb 2009, John Horner wrote: Advantages of using buttons: 1) Button elements don't need styling, they take their styling from the user's operating system, which they are, I assume, familiar and comfortable with. I won't be reinventing the wheel. Button elements are styled by the browser. 2) Anchor elements don't have a built-in disabled mode, buttons do, Disabled mode is just more styling. and again the styling comes directly from the OS and the user is familiar with it. Anchor elements are styled by the browser. -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Chris F.A. Johnson Sent: Tuesday, 24 February 2009 9:56 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] IE and the button element On Tue, 24 Feb 2009, John Horner wrote: Thanks for all the discussion so far. It seems I'll have to re-code. I will definitely not be using Javascript. It seems entirely logical to me that there should be such a thing as a button, which can exist outside a form, which has an HREF attribute or can be wrapped in an anchor. Why? All you need do is style the anchor element. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster http://woodbine-gerrard.com = Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster http://woodbine-gerrard.com = Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] IE and the button element
Chris F.A. Johnson On Tue, 24 Feb 2009, John Horner wrote: 1) Button elements don't need styling, they take their styling from the user's operating system, which they are, I assume, familiar and comfortable with. I won't be reinventing the wheel. Button elements are styled by the browser. But the browser should, in normal circumstances, heed any OS preferences (or at least, unless explicitly styled differently, present all those controls with a consistent look and feel). 2) Anchor elements don't have a built-in disabled mode, buttons do, Disabled mode is just more styling. It's also a functional change, as it disables the button (makes it unclickable and does not trigger the specified onclick action). and again the styling comes directly from the OS and the user is familiar with it. Anchor elements are styled by the browser. I believe John meant the styling of the 'disabled' button, so same as above applies. P Patrick H. Lauke Web Editor Enterprise Development University of Salford Room 113, Faraday House Salford, Greater Manchester M5 4WT UK T +44 (0) 161 295 4779 webmas...@salford.ac.uk www.salford.ac.uk A GREATER MANCHESTER UNIVERSITY *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] IE and the button element
On Tue, February 24, 2009 1:54 am, John Horner wrote: Advantages of using buttons: 1) Button elements don't need styling, they take their styling from the user's operating system, which they are, I assume, familiar and comfortable with. I won't be reinventing the wheel. Actually, the specific purpose of the button is to allow one to have buttons that *don't* look like ordinary buttons: Buttons created with the BUTTON element function just like buttons created with the INPUT element, but they offer richer rendering possibilities: the BUTTON element may have content. http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#edef-BUTTON In other words, the purpose of the button element is to allow the functionality of a button without imposing the appearance of one. 2) Anchor elements don't have a built-in disabled mode, buttons do, and again the styling comes directly from the OS and the user is familiar with it. If it doesn't do anything (that is, it is disabled), then it shouldn't be an anchor element. An anchor element used as a hyperlink has a semantic meaning. If that meaning should not be attached to a piece of content - e.g. the words Next page when there is no next page - then the link should be absent. While there may be good usability reasons for retaining the content, such as maintaining consistency of interface, to think in terms of providing functionality and then disabling it is to put the cart before the horse: instead, only provide the functionality when it is functional. Regards, Nick. -- Nick Fitzsimons http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Classes---Adding multiple classes to an element, is there a downfall???
In my own personal opinion, if you get into the situation where you want to use a selector like: .class1.class2 { stuff } then it is time to do a little re-factoring. The whole point of allowing an element to have two or more classes is so that each class remains semantically logical. As you pointed out, it is legal to use a selector like the above, but I would never allow such code on any project I was working on. Worst case is you need to be more specific with your rules. Obviously, the cascade determines exactly which rule will win, but I would also be very wary of relying on source-order - it would be far too easy for you (or someone else) to decide to tidy up the stylesheet at some point and change the order of these two rules. Mike Mike Brockington Web Development Specialist www.calcResult.com www.stephanieBlakey.me.uk www.edinburgh.gov.uk This message does not reflect the opinions of any entity other than the author alone. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Code scan, complient to guidelines version 2.0
Thiru Yoganathan wrote: I am looking for a code scan tool that compliant to the new accessibility guidelines v2.0 We currently use Bobby, however that is still adhering to the guidelines, version 1.0 Does anybody know of a tool which can do this? I use siteSifter - http://www.sitesifter.co.uk/ http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tools/ has some lists. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] DHTML Menus
Kristine Cummins wrote: I’ve recently seen some arguments against the use of DHTML menus for accessibility issues. How much is this an issue…. What is the percentage of population that does not have javascript enabled? Any other thoughts on the topic? DHTML menus is a very vague term. The tool doesn't matter so much as what you do with it. A menu which used JavaScript to change the background colour of the menu item when pointed at would qualify as a DHTML menu. It would be an inefficient way to do something that could be more easily achieved with CSS, but the term would still apply. I'm going to assume you are talking about drop down menus. It is entirely possible to create something that works without JavaScript progressively enhances (although there are some arguments about whether drop down menus are an 'enhancement' on websites, see below) when it is. It is also possible to create things that not only fail to work when JS isn't available, but sometimes fail to work when it is. Take, for instance, a menu that depends on the user moving the mouse over the title to cause the menu to appear. Now approach it with a keyboard - there aren't any links (in their theoretical example) for the focus to go to, so the menu can't be used - even those the client supports JavaScript. Next approach it with a touch screen (on an iPhone for example). The client supports JS. The client can click. But the client can't hover the pointer over anything. It's broken again. Then there are other arguments again them: http://www.message.uk.com/index.php?page=81 -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] IE and the button element
Nick Fitzsimons wrote: Actually, the specific purpose of the button is to allow one to have buttons that *don't* look like ordinary buttons: Buttons created with the BUTTON element function just like buttons created with the INPUT element, but they offer richer rendering possibilities: the BUTTON element may have content. http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#edef-BUTTON No, you can have richer rendering possibilities without giving up looking like ordinary buttons. The typical case is a button with an icon on it. http://www.packagekit.org/img/kpk-confirm.png for example. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] meta tag questions
I have questions regarding two types of meta tags, Dublin Core and geo.position: 1. Dublin Core: I have only been able to find older studies (2000) regarding the possible improvement in search engine positioning through the use of these tags. The conclusion in these olders studies was no significant imporvement, however they did go on to say that in the future these tags will play a more important role. Has that future arrived or are these tags essentialy still code bloat? 2. geo.position: According to Wikipedia geo.position tags help in returning regional search requests, or as they put it: It understandably makes little sense to look for a baker and find one who has his shop in a completely different town. If this is the case, then it would seem putting geo.position tags on a bed and breakfast site in Pisa, Italy that is trying to reach potential guests around the world would not be a good idea. Anyone have any experience or thoughts regarding these tags? Thanks, Bob Schwartz *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Code scan, complient to guidelines version 2.0
David Dorward I use siteSifter - http://www.sitesifter.co.uk/ With the usual caveat that automated testing tools can flag up false positives and false negatives (for instance, on one site I just ran through the free sitesifter service, it flagged the lack of Content-Language in the HTTP header as a problem, while ignoring the fact that the language is set with both lang=en and xml:lang=en in the actual document). Particularly in the case of the tech-agnostic WCAG 2, automated tools can only really check the machine-checkable parts, and there only using an interpretation of the WCAG 2 Techniques document for a specific subset of technologies. P Patrick H. Lauke Web Editor Enterprise Development University of Salford Room 113, Faraday House Salford, Greater Manchester M5 4WT UK T +44 (0) 161 295 4779 webmas...@salford.ac.uk www.salford.ac.uk A GREATER MANCHESTER UNIVERSITY *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] meta tag questions
I don't know about the Dublin Core issue but my gut feeling with geo.position and your example would be that of course the bed and breakfast in Pisa, Italy should have their location as the hotel will always be in the same place. I think that you've looked at the issue from the wrong side in that you assume it would only show in regional searches (e.g. an italian search engine) whereas in actual fact it should show up in a global search for that region - e.g. if I search for hotels pisa italy I would expect it to show up as it's geo.position clearly states that is where it is and so the search engine can be 100% sure that it is in the area I'm looking for. I haven't done any tests, etc, but that is what I would expect of the tag. How much difference it makes in terms of SEO will be harder to gauge as I doubt that adding that tag will make you rank higher (as the search engines cater for the lowest possible denominator) but it should help in terms of specific search queries. Ben --- e: b...@bendodson.com w: http://bendodson.com/ Feeling social? Connect with me on various social networks at http://social.bendodson.com/ - You might also want to follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/bendodson On 24 Feb 2009, at 11:21, Bob Schwartz wrote: I have questions regarding two types of meta tags, Dublin Core and geo.position: 1. Dublin Core: I have only been able to find older studies (2000) regarding the possible improvement in search engine positioning through the use of these tags. The conclusion in these olders studies was no significant imporvement, however they did go on to say that in the future these tags will play a more important role. Has that future arrived or are these tags essentialy still code bloat? 2. geo.position: According to Wikipedia geo.position tags help in returning regional search requests, or as they put it: It understandably makes little sense to look for a baker and find one who has his shop in a completely different town. If this is the case, then it would seem putting geo.position tags on a bed and breakfast site in Pisa, Italy that is trying to reach potential guests around the world would not be a good idea. Anyone have any experience or thoughts regarding these tags? Thanks, Bob Schwartz *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] meta tag questions
Ben, I think that you've looked at the issue from the wrong side in that you assume it would only show in regional searches (e.g. an italian search engine) whereas in actual fact it should show up in a global search for that region - e.g. if I search for hotels pisa italy I would expect it to show up as it's geo.position clearly states that is where it is and so the search engine can be 100% sure that it is in the area I'm looking for. That's why I posted, to get another perspective - thanks - what you say makes perfect sense. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] IE and the button element
On Tue, February 24, 2009 10:57 am, David Dorward wrote: Nick Fitzsimons wrote: Actually, the specific purpose of the button is to allow one to have buttons that *don't* look like ordinary buttons: Buttons created with the BUTTON element function just like buttons created with the INPUT element, but they offer richer rendering possibilities: the BUTTON element may have content. http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#edef-BUTTON No, you can have richer rendering possibilities without giving up looking like ordinary buttons. The typical case is a button with an icon on it. http://www.packagekit.org/img/kpk-confirm.png for example. True; I didn't phrase that very well. The point I was really trying to make is that to suggest that the value of the button element is that it *looks* like a button is to miss the point; the point is that it *behaves* like a button. In other words its purpose is to provide a specific kind of functionality, not a specific kind of appearance. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Fitzsimons http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Classes---Adding multiple classes to an element, is there a downfall???
Yea, I would never consider allowing it on any project I am working on either...I was actually asking because I have heard that it could be done, but never really understood (maybe, come to think of it, heard) what the downfalls were. I do, now, thanks to you and Russ Weakley. -- Brett P. On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 5:17 AM, michael.brocking...@bt.com wrote: In my own personal opinion, if you get into the situation where you want to use a selector like: .class1.class2 { stuff } then it is time to do a little re-factoring. The whole point of allowing an element to have two or more classes is so that each class remains semantically logical. As you pointed out, it is legal to use a selector like the above, but I would never allow such code on any project I was working on. Worst case is you need to be more specific with your rules. Obviously, the cascade determines exactly which rule will win, but I would also be very wary of relying on source-order - it would be far too easy for you (or someone else) to decide to tidy up the stylesheet at some point and change the order of these two rules. Mike Mike Brockington Web Development Specialist www.calcResult.com www.stephanieBlakey.me.uk www.edinburgh.gov.uk This message does not reflect the opinions of any entity other than the author alone. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] meta tag questions
You can see dublin core as well as RDF and microformatted information has been indexed by yahoo when you use the BOSS api and/or build a SearchMonkey application. I don't know how much it influences Yahoo's rankings, but it is being used in building the index. http://developer.yahoo.com/boss http://developer.yahoo.com/searchmonkey http://developer.yahoo.com/yql Ted _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Ben Dodson Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 12:38 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] meta tag questions I don't know about the Dublin Core issue but my gut feeling with geo.position and your example would be that of course the bed and breakfast in Pisa, Italy should have their location as the hotel will always be in the same place. I think that you've looked at the issue from the wrong side in that you assume it would only show in regional searches (e.g. an italian search engine) whereas in actual fact it should show up in a global search for that region - e.g. if I search for hotels pisa italy I would expect it to show up as it's geo.position clearly states that is where it is and so the search engine can be 100% sure that it is in the area I'm looking for. I haven't done any tests, etc, but that is what I would expect of the tag. How much difference it makes in terms of SEO will be harder to gauge as I doubt that adding that tag will make you rank higher (as the search engines cater for the lowest possible denominator) but it should help in terms of specific search queries. Ben --- e: b...@bendodson.com w: http://bendodson.com/ Feeling social? Connect with me on various social networks at http://social.bendodson.com/ - You might also want to follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/bendodson On 24 Feb 2009, at 11:21, Bob Schwartz wrote: I have questions regarding two types of meta tags, Dublin Core and geo.position: 1. Dublin Core: I have only been able to find older studies (2000) regarding the possible improvement in search engine positioning through the use of these tags. The conclusion in these olders studies was no significant imporvement, however they did go on to say that in the future these tags will play a more important role. Has that future arrived or are these tags essentialy still code bloat? 2. geo.position: According to Wikipedia geo.position tags help in returning regional search requests, or as they put it: It understandably makes little sense to look for a baker and find one who has his shop in a completely different town. If this is the case, then it would seem putting geo.position tags on a bed and breakfast site in Pisa, Italy that is trying to reach potential guests around the world would not be a good idea. Anyone have any experience or thoughts regarding these tags? Thanks, Bob Schwartz *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] IE and the button element
On Feb 24, 2009, at 7:28 AM, Nick Fitzsimons wrote: the point is that it *behaves* like a button. In other words its purpose is to provide a specific kind of functionality and if I remember correctly, the functionality to be provided as originally stated was a link to a next page. I'd suggest that that specific functionality - linking - is adequately provided by the anchor tag, and it is inappropriate to use a button (of any kind) to provide that functionality. (And I believe it's irrelevant that various screens specific to an OS use buttons to progress from screen to screen, e.g. MacOS's use of a Continue button during software installation. If it's a web site provide a consistent, standard *web* interface). $0.02 Andrew http://www.andrewmaben.net and...@andrewmaben.com In a well designed user interface, the user should not need instructions. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Inserting text in IE8
Hi all. My problem isn't strictly standards but more JavaScript compatibility between IE versions. In IE6, 7 I can insert text on a range (either on highlighted text or where the cursor is placed) using pasteHTML(). In IE8 I can only pasteHTML() when text is highlighted and not when the cursor is placed. See here for very simple example. http://robing.xtools.co.nz/demo_cms/test_editor/ Any idea's why? Robin. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] inserting text in to IE8
Hi all. My problem isn't strictly standards but more JavaScript compatibility between IE versions. In IE6, 7 I can insert text on a range (either on highlighted text or where the cursor is placed) using pasteHTML(). In IE8 I can only pasteHTML() when text is highlighted and not when the cursor is placed. See here for very simple example. http://robing.xtools.co.nz/demo_cms/test_editor/ Any idea's why? Robin. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
On 24 Feb 2009, at 11:21, Bob Schwartz wrote: 1. Dublin Core: I have only been able to find older studies (2000) regarding the possible improvement in search engine positioning through the use of these tags. The conclusion in these olders studies was no significant imporvement, however they did go on to say that in the future these tags will play a more important role. Has that future arrived or are these tags essentialy still code bloat? The Dublib Core is only one of a few different metadata projects, such as Web Ontology Language (OWL), the Warwick Framework, Resource Description Framework (RDF) to name just a few. These metadata projects try to describe or represent knowledge. The thirteen elements of the Dublin Core include familiar descriptive data such as author, title, and subject... but they are not enough. So the Warwick Framework aimed to expend on the Dublin Core. How essential are they? Well, I remember that the webstandardsgroup.org used to recommend using the DC metadata -- but last I checked they don't anymore. 2. geo.position: [snipped] Anyone have any experience or thoughts regarding these tags? I recently looked into this. I think as with the above, no one standard has emerged just yet. Try and look into .gfx format and .kml format files. But not sure if this is what you meant. Some links to check out: http://www.topografix.com/gpx.asp http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/ http://www.gpsbabel.org/ Elle *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] meta tag questions
Hi Bob, Bob Schwartz wrote: 2. geo.position: According to Wikipedia geo.position tags help in returning regional search requests, or as they put it: "It understandably makes little sense to look for a baker and find one who has his shop in a completely different town". If this is the case, then it would seem putting geo.position tags on a bed and breakfast site in Pisa, Italy that is trying to reach potential guests around the world would not be a good idea. Anyone have any experience or thoughts regarding these tags? Does the geo ontology/schema also represent properties for longitude and latitude? I wrote a geospacial inferencing engine a while back for inferring distances between points using the great circle method. From memory, I think it used the geo schema. If it is for a web page, also look at using an 'ICBM' meta tag (eg. meta name="ICBM" content="12.345, -67.890" / ). *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Rob Turner Company Leader www. f l e x a d a t a .com +1 415 448 7652 +61 7 3040 1337 ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org***begin:vcard fn:Rob Turner n:Turner;Rob org:Flexa Pty Ltd email;internet:r...@flexadata.com title:Company Leader tel;work:+61 7 3040 1337 tel;cell:+61 4 0115 9060 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://flexadata.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] inserting text in to IE8
Dunno about your IE problems, but it doesn't work in firefox at all. Inserting text from the clipboard has always been an issue between browsers, and it was proven a while back that IE browsers could be exploited to steal passwords etc that you copy to your clipboard by pasting the clipboard into hidden regions and posting them back to a server. I'm going to go ahead and say that this is Microsofts attempt to keep the poeple that found this exploit happy, or at least squash the bad press a little bit. On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 8:05 AM, Robin Gorry rob...@xplore.net wrote: Hi all. My problem isn't strictly standards but more JavaScript compatibility between IE versions. In IE6, 7 I can insert text on a range (either on highlighted text or where the cursor is placed) using pasteHTML(). In IE8 I can only pasteHTML() when text is highlighted and not when the cursor is placed. See here for very simple example. http://robing.xtools.co.nz/demo_cms/test_editor/ Any idea's why? Robin. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] inserting text in to IE8
Hi Peter, The example I linked to is IE only the way IE handles text ranges is fundamentally different than the w3c model that ff opera and the webkit browsers use. That doesn't really add up that this is a security fix because I wouldn't be able to highlight text and pasted it in, it is only when you place your cursor and try and paste in then. Like I said it worked fine in ie6 and 7 so I have submitted it to Microsoft as a bug. We'll see what happens Robin From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Peter Dolkens Sent: 25 February 2009 15:56 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] inserting text in to IE8 Dunno about your IE problems, but it doesn't work in firefox at all. Inserting text from the clipboard has always been an issue between browsers, and it was proven a while back that IE browsers could be exploited to steal passwords etc that you copy to your clipboard by pasting the clipboard into hidden regions and posting them back to a server. I'm going to go ahead and say that this is Microsofts attempt to keep the poeple that found this exploit happy, or at least squash the bad press a little bit. On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 8:05 AM, Robin Gorry rob...@xplore.net wrote: Hi all. My problem isn't strictly standards but more JavaScript compatibility between IE versions. In IE6, 7 I can insert text on a range (either on highlighted text or where the cursor is placed) using pasteHTML(). In IE8 I can only pasteHTML() when text is highlighted and not when the cursor is placed. See here for very simple example. http://robing.xtools.co.nz/demo_cms/test_editor/ Any idea's why? Robin. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] inserting text in to IE8
Robin Gorry wrote: Hi all. My problem isn't strictly standards but more JavaScript compatibility between IE versions. In IE6, 7 I can insert text on a range (either on highlighted text or where the cursor is placed) using pasteHTML(). In IE8 I can only pasteHTML() when text is highlighted and not when the cursor is placed. See here for very simple example. http://robing.xtools.co.nz/demo_cms/test_editor/ Any idea's why? Robin. I don't know a lot about ranges, but I hope this article from PPK might help you. http://www.quirksmode.org/dom/range_intro.html This is the WSG list, so it is reasonable to accept that the list members would promote the W3C DOM method of going about getting the range, rather than via proprietary methods. Does look as though this is cutting edge stuff :) Kat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] inserting text in to IE8
Thanks Katrina, For any javascript problems the first place I look is quriksmode.com. unfortunatly if you want to support IE you have to fork your code ie one section for IE one for the rest. All I can put this down to is a bug in ie 8 rc1. Robin -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Katrina Sent: 25 February 2009 16:39 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] inserting text in to IE8 Robin Gorry wrote: Hi all. My problem isn't strictly standards but more JavaScript compatibility between IE versions. In IE6, 7 I can insert text on a range (either on highlighted text or where the cursor is placed) using pasteHTML(). In IE8 I can only pasteHTML() when text is highlighted and not when the cursor is placed. See here for very simple example. http://robing.xtools.co.nz/demo_cms/test_editor/ Any idea's why? Robin. I don't know a lot about ranges, but I hope this article from PPK might help you. http://www.quirksmode.org/dom/range_intro.html This is the WSG list, so it is reasonable to accept that the list members would promote the W3C DOM method of going about getting the range, rather than via proprietary methods. Does look as though this is cutting edge stuff :) Kat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] meta tag questions
Hi Robert. Does the geo ontology/schema also represent properties for longitude and latitude? I wrote a geospacial inferencing engine a while back for inferring distances between points using the great circle method. From memory, I think it used the geo schema. If it is for a web page, also look at using an 'ICBM' meta tag (eg. meta name=ICBM content=12.345, -67.890 / ). Yes and the ICBM is part of them. As best I can tell a complete set looks like this: meta name=geo.placename content=loc. Amerique, 10, 11020 Quart, Aosta (Valle d'Aosta), Italy meta name=geo.position content=45.740005;7.368822 meta name=geo.region content=IT-Valle d'Aosta meta name=ICBM content=45.740005, 7.368822 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] meta tag questions
Thanks Bob, I've dug up some old java code that contained a snippet from the geo schema I used (in a javadoc comment). Here it is: /** ... * pRDF Vocabulary for describing points: * code * rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#" * xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" * geo:Point * geo:lat54.5722/geo:lat * geo:long0.014024/geo:long * /geo:Point * /rdf:RDF * * (eg. geo:Point geo:lat="54.5722" geo:long="0.014024"/ ) * /code ... */ I hope this helps you out. Cheers, Rob Bob Schwartz wrote: Hi Robert. Does the geo ontology/schema also represent properties for longitude and latitude? I wrote a geospacial inferencing engine a while back for inferring distances between points using the great circle method. From memory, I think it used the geo schema. If it is for a web page, also look at using an 'ICBM' meta tag (eg. meta name="ICBM" content="12.345, -67.890" / ). Yes and the ICBM is part of them. As best I can tell a complete set looks like this: meta name="geo.placename" content="loc. Amerique, 10, 11020 Quart, Aosta (Valle d'Aosta), Italy" meta name="geo.position" content="45.740005;7.368822" meta name="geo.region" content="IT-Valle d'Aosta" meta name="ICBM" content="45.740005, 7.368822" *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Rob Turner Company Leader www. f l e x a d a t a .com +1 415 448 7652 +61 7 3040 1337 ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org***begin:vcard fn:Rob Turner n:Turner;Rob org:Flexa Pty Ltd email;internet:r...@flexadata.com title:Company Leader tel;work:+61 7 3040 1337 tel;cell:+61 4 0115 9060 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://flexadata.com version:2.1 end:vcard