Re: [WSG] legal list numbering
At 8/25/2009 10:11 PM, Andrew Harris wrote: How do people get around the problem of marking up ordered lists in legal documents, such as policies or terms and conditions? A typical structure might look like: 1 blah blah blah 1.1 blah blah blah 1.2 blah blah blah 1.2.1 blah blah blah 1.2.2 blah blah blah 1.3 blah blah blah 2 blah blah blah 2.1 blah blah blah 2.1.1 blah blah blah* In all of the discussions of this issue I've read, the final wisdom has been to actually hard-code the numbering of contracts, bylaws, etc. in nested lists, suppressing the normal list-style-type. That might seem retro, but you can't afford to have any of the numbering change because of an editing error. The whole point behind auto-numbering is thoughtless re-numbering, something a legal document cannot tolerate. It would be better to have an accidentally-deleted item leave a hole in the numbering that a proofreader could easily catch than to have HTML automatically close up the numbering sequentially over such an elision. Another advantage is that the numbering is manifest in the markup itself, rather than being a sequence of bare LIs. Someone can snip an excerpt from the markup with the numbering intact. (In this vein, implementing the numbering of a contract with JavaScript sounds about as smart as printing the contract on sheets of ice.) This decision is made easier, of course, by the limited auto-numbering options of HTML! Justification for hard-coding the numbering from a semantic perspective is that the numbering is actually integral to the content and not merely an incidental by-product of its sequence in the greater list. I believe the logic is that once the legal document is finalized, an item's number becomes part of its fixed name used in quoting and references and a great weight of legality rests on the accuracy and persistence of the numbering. Of course, when you're drafting a contract it's handy to use auto-numbering in word processing, but once you get to the final draft stage I'd freeze it for HTML. Regards, Paul __ Paul Novitski Juniper Webcraft Ltd. http://juniperwebcraft.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Multiple IE's for browser testing
If you use the freely availabel Microsoft Virtual PC you can run the also freely available IE Compat images Microsoft provides. These are timebombed which means you'll have to re-download them about every 3 to 4 months, but it also saves you having to buy 3 separate Windows XP licenses to run the current (IE8), previous (IE7) and ancient and evil (IE6) browsers. Best, Matijs On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 9:19 AM, James Ellis james.el...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Use virtualbox (.org) and run up a virtual machine that only has IE7 on it. You can do this by installing XP into the virtual machine and updating it to IE7. Remember to turn off Windows Update so it doesn't upgrade to IE8 when you are not looking. Virtualisation is the only real way to get an IE that matches what site visitors are using, meaning less fubar when debugging an issue. (I don't see the general public browsing with a MultipleIE browser). Note you will need a Windows license for each virtualised Windows machine you use. HTH James On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:04:13 am Kristine Cummins wrote: I've recently downloaded IE8 and now my standalone IE7 refuses to work. Anyone else have this issue and have a better way to get IE to cooperate for Webmasters??? I downloaded the standalone at http://tredosoft.com/Multiple_IE Thanks for your time, Kristine *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] legal list numbering
For an example how to solve this take a look at http://www.regels-stadskanaal.nl It's an online archieve of the legislation of the city of Stadskanaal in the Netherlands. As you can see i've moved the nummers of the listitems to the content of the documents. Koen Willems Citeren Andrew Harris and...@woowoowoo.com: How do people get around the problem of marking up ordered lists in legal documents, such as policies or terms and conditions? A typical structure might look like: 1 blah blah blah 1.1 blah blah blah 1.2 blah blah blah 1.2.1 blah blah blah 1.2.2 blah blah blah 1.3 blah blah blah 2 blah blah blah 2.1 blah blah blah 2.1.1 blah blah blah* I've seen a variety of convoluted javascript and CSS methods, but they're all hacks for what is essentially a pretty logical structure... nested ordered lists! I have to admit, I haven't even checked whether this is addressed in html 5. * BTW: I've read lots of legal documents and I reckon the text can mostly be replaced with blah blah blah without affecting their meaning. -- Andrew Harris and...@woowoowoo.com http://www.woowoowoo.com ~~~ * ~~~ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] legal list numbering
This isn't a problem at all. It's a simple thing to do in HTML. Example: ol liBlah Blah/li liBlah Blah/li liBlah Blah ol liBlah Blah/li liBlah Blah/li liBlah Blah ol liBlah blah/li liBlah blah/li liBlah blah/li /ol /li /ol /li /ol Thanks, Jason On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 1:33 PM, kwill...@zonnet.nl wrote: For an example how to solve this take a look at http://www.regels-stadskanaal.nl It's an online archieve of the legislation of the city of Stadskanaal in the Netherlands. As you can see i've moved the nummers of the listitems to the content of the documents. Koen Willems Citeren Andrew Harris and...@woowoowoo.com: How do people get around the problem of marking up ordered lists in legal documents, such as policies or terms and conditions? A typical structure might look like: 1 blah blah blah 1.1 blah blah blah 1.2 blah blah blah 1.2.1 blah blah blah 1.2.2 blah blah blah 1.3 blah blah blah 2 blah blah blah 2.1 blah blah blah 2.1.1 blah blah blah* I've seen a variety of convoluted javascript and CSS methods, but they're all hacks for what is essentially a pretty logical structure... nested ordered lists! I have to admit, I haven't even checked whether this is addressed in html 5. * BTW: I've read lots of legal documents and I reckon the text can mostly be replaced with blah blah blah without affecting their meaning. -- Andrew Harris and...@woowoowoo.com http://www.woowoowoo.com ~~~ * ~~~ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Jason Grant BSc, MSc CEO, Flexewebs Ltd. www.flexewebs.com ja...@flexewebs.com +44 (0)7748 591 770 Company no.: 5587469 www.flexewebs.com/semantix www.twitter.com/flexewebs www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] legal list numbering
This straight OL does not work from a pure XHTML 1.0 Strict perspective unless your legal documents conform to the browsers' default list numbering scheme. The *'type'* attribute is not valid in XHTML 1.0 which really annoys me to no end, since I work for a county government. The numbering in a legal document is an integral part of the pages' content and should not be left to the determination of the CSS, because once you separate the CSS from the XHTML the list's numbering is not valid and much of the use and meaning for the document is lost. I am not sure, but I expect that HTML5 has a similar issue. Correct me if I am wrong. I hope I am. Jim On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 08:16, Jason Grant ja...@flexewebs.com wrote: This isn't a problem at all. It's a simple thing to do in HTML. Example: ol liBlah Blah/li liBlah Blah/li liBlah Blah ol liBlah Blah/li liBlah Blah/li liBlah Blah ol liBlah blah/li liBlah blah/li liBlah blah/li /ol /li /ol /li /ol Thanks, Jason *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] legal list numbering
This isn't work correctly: 'counter-reset' and other CSS styles for this nested lists not supported by IE. 2009/8/26 Jason Grant ja...@flexewebs.com: This isn't a problem at all. It's a simple thing to do in HTML. Example: ol liBlah Blah/li liBlah Blah/li liBlah Blah ol liBlah Blah/li liBlah Blah/li liBlah Blah ol liBlah blah/li liBlah blah/li liBlah blah/li /ol /li /ol /li /ol Thanks, Jason On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 1:33 PM, kwill...@zonnet.nl wrote: -- Jason Grant BSc, MSc CEO, Flexewebs Ltd. www.flexewebs.com ja...@flexewebs.com +44 (0)7748 591 770 Company no.: 5587469 www.flexewebs.com/semantix www.twitter.com/flexewebs www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] legal list numbering
Anthony - what's there to 'understand'? This is the semantically correct way to mark up this particular set of data. Simple as. By all means you should be able to style up looking pixel perfect the same across any browser under the Sun. Cheers, Jason On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Antony Gr. ant.grak...@gmail.com wrote: IE not understand this. You don't agree? 2009/8/26 Jason Grant ja...@flexewebs.com: Inspect the TOC of this page and see that the markup I used is essentially correct. The difference is that they wrote the numbers down into the page (i.e. 1.1, 4.11, 5., etc.) http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/ If unsure, use a W3C page as a reference point :-) Cheers, Jason -- Jason Grant BSc, MSc CEO, Flexewebs Ltd. www.flexewebs.com ja...@flexewebs.com +44 (0)7748 591 770 Company no.: 5587469 www.flexewebs.com/semantix www.twitter.com/flexewebs www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Jason Grant BSc, MSc CEO, Flexewebs Ltd. www.flexewebs.com ja...@flexewebs.com +44 (0)7748 591 770 Company no.: 5587469 www.flexewebs.com/semantix www.twitter.com/flexewebs www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] legal list numbering
Inspect the TOC of this page and see that the markup I used is essentially correct. The difference is that they wrote the numbers down into the page (i.e. 1.1, 4.11, 5., etc.) http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/ If unsure, use a W3C page as a reference point :-) Cheers, Jason On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Antony Gr. ant.grak...@gmail.com wrote: This isn't work correctly: 'counter-reset' and other CSS styles for this nested lists not supported by IE. 2009/8/26 Jason Grant ja...@flexewebs.com: This isn't a problem at all. It's a simple thing to do in HTML. Example: ol liBlah Blah/li liBlah Blah/li liBlah Blah ol liBlah Blah/li liBlah Blah/li liBlah Blah ol liBlah blah/li liBlah blah/li liBlah blah/li /ol /li /ol /li /ol Thanks, Jason On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 1:33 PM, kwill...@zonnet.nl wrote: -- Jason Grant BSc, MSc CEO, Flexewebs Ltd. www.flexewebs.com ja...@flexewebs.com +44 (0)7748 591 770 Company no.: 5587469 www.flexewebs.com/semantix www.twitter.com/flexewebs www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Jason Grant BSc, MSc CEO, Flexewebs Ltd. www.flexewebs.com ja...@flexewebs.com +44 (0)7748 591 770 Company no.: 5587469 www.flexewebs.com/semantix www.twitter.com/flexewebs www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] legal list numbering
IE not understand this. You don't agree? 2009/8/26 Jason Grant ja...@flexewebs.com: Inspect the TOC of this page and see that the markup I used is essentially correct. The difference is that they wrote the numbers down into the page (i.e. 1.1, 4.11, 5., etc.) http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/ If unsure, use a W3C page as a reference point :-) Cheers, Jason -- Jason Grant BSc, MSc CEO, Flexewebs Ltd. www.flexewebs.com ja...@flexewebs.com +44 (0)7748 591 770 Company no.: 5587469 www.flexewebs.com/semantix www.twitter.com/flexewebs www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] legal list numbering
Jason, the markup you presented is semanticly ok, but doesn't solve the issue topic starter mentioned. See the example site i've given before for a solution, http://www.regels-stadskanaal.nl Koen Willems -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] Namens Jason Grant Verzonden: woensdag 26 augustus 2009 16:12 Aan: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Onderwerp: Re: [WSG] legal list numbering Anthony - what's there to 'understand'? This is the semantically correct way to mark up this particular set of data. Simple as. By all means you should be able to style up looking pixel perfect the same across any browser under the Sun. Cheers, Jason On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Antony Gr. ant.grak...@gmail.com wrote: IE not understand this. You don't agree? 2009/8/26 Jason Grant ja...@flexewebs.com: Inspect the TOC of this page and see that the markup I used is essentially correct. The difference is that they wrote the numbers down into the page (i.e. 1.1, 4.11, 5., etc.) http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/ If unsure, use a W3C page as a reference point :-) Cheers, Jason -- Jason Grant BSc, MSc CEO, Flexewebs Ltd. www.flexewebs.com ja...@flexewebs.com +44 (0)7748 591 770 Company no.: 5587469 www.flexewebs.com/semantix www.twitter.com/flexewebs www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Jason Grant BSc, MSc CEO, Flexewebs Ltd. www.flexewebs.com ja...@flexewebs.com +44 (0)7748 591 770 Company no.: 5587469 www.flexewebs.com/semantix www.twitter.com/flexewebs www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] accessibility: government
Good afternoon list, Does anybody know if their exists a list of what is required in terms of accessibility features for each country (governments)? -- Regards, Luc _ http://www.dzinelabs.com Using the best e-mail client: The Bat! version 4.2.6 with Windows XP (build 2600), version 5.1 Service Pack 3 and using the best browser: Opera. Xerox never comes up with anything original. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] accessibility: government
Here in the Netherlands we have http://www.webrichtlijnen.nl/english/ Koen Willems -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] Namens Luc Verzonden: woensdag 26 augustus 2009 20:41 Aan: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Onderwerp: [WSG] accessibility: government Good afternoon list, Does anybody know if their exists a list of what is required in terms of accessibility features for each country (governments)? -- Regards, Luc _ http://www.dzinelabs.com Using the best e-mail client: The Bat! version 4.2.6 with Windows XP (build 2600), version 5.1 Service Pack 3 and using the best browser: Opera. Xerox never comes up with anything original. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] accessibility: government
In Canada, public facing federal government websites must adhere to the Common Look and Feel for the Internet, which includes an accessibility component heavily based on WCAG 1.0. http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/clf2-nsi2/index-eng.asp http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/clf2-nsi2/clfs-nnsi/clfs-nnsi-2-eng.asp Kris Wright On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Koen Willems kwill...@zonnet.nl wrote: Here in the Netherlands we have http://www.webrichtlijnen.nl/english/ Koen Willems -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] Namens Luc Verzonden: woensdag 26 augustus 2009 20:41 Aan: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Onderwerp: [WSG] accessibility: government Good afternoon list, Does anybody know if their exists a list of what is required in terms of accessibility features for each country (governments)? -- Regards, Luc _ http://www.dzinelabs.com Using the best e-mail client: The Bat! version 4.2.6 with Windows XP (build 2600), version 5.1 Service Pack 3 and using the best browser: Opera. Xerox never comes up with anything original. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] legal list numbering (webstandardsgroup: to exclusive)
HTML5 should *never *include specifications for what you're asking. From an
pure HTML standpoint, you should never be specifying what type of numbering
scheme to use, just how to structure list items. The context of *type* you
speak of is presentational. Maybe a *class=legal* attribute might assist
you. Then it is for the CSS to specify the look.
If you're looking for pixel-perfect representation, that is *not* what
HTML/CSS or even Web browsers were intended to do. A potential workaround
may be to offer an HTML version (with JavaScript to prefix the parent
section numbers in each list item == progressive enhancement), but if you
want to maintain the absolute original format, offer a PDF version.
A simple solution using inline CSS and JavaScript (ALWAYS separate them):
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd;
html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml;
head
titleLegal Document/title
style type=text/css
/*** KEEP THIS IN A SEPARATE FILE ***/
ol.legal,
ol.legal ol {/* default display, one reference per
item */
list-style-type: decimal;
padding-left: 1em;
margin-left: .5em;
}
body.ready ol.legal,
body.ready ol.legal ol {/* if JS enabled, allow it to specify
the reference numbers */
list-style-type: none;
}
body.ready ol.legal {
padding-left: 0;
}
body.ready ol.legal span.reference {
padding-right: .5em;
}
/style
!-- using jQuery for DOM traversal --
script type=text/javascript
src=http://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/libs/jquery/1.3.2/jquery.min.js;
/script
script type=text/javascript
/*** KEEP THIS IN A SEPARATE FILE ***/
$(function() {
$('body').addClass('ready'); /* let CSS know that JS is enabled
*/
$('ol.legal li')
.each(function() {
/* each list item should also reference all of it's
ancestors' positions */
var $li = $(this);
$li
.prepend( /* add to beginning of each list item */
'span class=reference' +
$li
.parents('li')
.andSelf()
.map(function() { return
$(this).prevAll().size() + 1; }) /* map all reference positions as array */
.get()
.join('.')
+ '/span'
);
});
});
/script
/head
body
h1Document Name/h1
!-- offer a PDF version if the user needs to see it in its ORIGINAL
format --
pA a href=#PDF version/a is available./p
!-- only layout the structure of the legal document here. CSS should
handle the rest --
ol class=legal
liBlah Blah/li
liBlah Blah/li
liBlah Blah
ol
liBlah Blah/li
liBlah Blah/li
liBlah Blah
ol
liBlah blah/li
liBlah blah/li
liBlah blah/li
/ol
/li
/ol
/li
/ol
/body
/html
Regards,
Jason T. Featheringham
Front-End Engineer
http://thejase.com
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Jason Grant ja...@flexewebs.com wrote:
Anthony - what's there to 'understand'? This is the semantically correct
way to mark up this particular set of data.
Simple as.
By all means you should be able to style up looking pixel perfect the same
across any browser under the Sun.
Cheers,
Jason
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Antony Gr. ant.grak...@gmail.com wrote:
IE not understand this. You don't agree?
2009/8/26 Jason Grant ja...@flexewebs.com:
Inspect the TOC of this page and see that the markup I used is
essentially
correct.
The difference is that they wrote the numbers down into the page (i.e.
1.1,
4.11, 5., etc.)
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/
If unsure, use a W3C page as a reference point :-)
Cheers,
Jason
--
Jason Grant BSc, MSc
CEO, Flexewebs Ltd.
www.flexewebs.com
ja...@flexewebs.com
+44 (0)7748 591 770
Company no.: 5587469
www.flexewebs.com/semantix
www.twitter.com/flexewebs
www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs
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Re: [WSG] accessibility: government
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:40 AM, Lucl...@dzinelabs.com wrote: Good afternoon list, Does anybody know if their exists a list of what is required in terms of accessibility features for each country (governments)? -- Regards, Luc Hi Luc, here in Australia we have a couple of pieces of legislation, the main one being the Disability Discrimination Act - there is a guide to it at http://hreoc.gov.au/disability_rights/dda_guide/dda_guide.htm There are some Better Practice Guidelines that touch on a lot of accessibility issues (amongst others) at http://www.finance.gov.au/e-government/better-practice-and-collaboration/better-practice-checklists/index.html Others may wish to add to the list above. Best regards, Andrew -- --- Andrew Boyd http://uxaustralia.com.au -- UX Australia Conference Canberra 2009 http://uxbookclub.org -- connect, read, discuss http://resilientnationaustralia.org Resilient Nation Australia *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] accessibility: government
In the USA, federal government web sites, and those web sites were federal tax dollars are involved, are subject to accessibility requirements of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, as amended. This is more commonly known as Section 508 --- http://www.section508.gov/ Many state governments and public educational institutions have incorporated the federal Section 508 requirements within their state laws for state supported sites. There is no direct requirement for non-federal government commercial and private web sites to follow Section 508. However, the recent target.com court case out of California used that state's laws and the federal Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (ADA - http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/ada.html) as the basis for an accessibility lawsuit later settled out of court. I cannot help you with state- or local-level web accessibility laws. Dennis Luc l...@dzinelabs.com Sent by: li...@webstandardsgroup.org 08/26/2009 11:45 AM Please respond to wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To wsg@webstandardsgroup.org cc Subject [WSG] accessibility: government Good afternoon list, Does anybody know if their exists a list of what is required in terms of accessibility features for each country (governments)? -- Regards, Luc _ http://www.dzinelabs.com Using the best e-mail client: The Bat! version 4.2.6 with Windows XP (build 2600), version 5.1 Service Pack 3 and using the best browser: Opera. Xerox never comes up with anything original. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] accessibility: government
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:40 AM, Lucl...@dzinelabs.com wrote: Good afternoon list, Does anybody know if their exists a list of what is required in terms of accessibility features for each country (governments)? -- Regards, Luc Hi Luc, here in Australia we have a couple of pieces of legislation, the main one being the Disability Discrimination Act - there is a guide to it at http://hreoc.gov.au/disability_rights/dda_guide/dda_guide.htm There are some Better Practice Guidelines that touch on a lot of accessibility issues (amongst others) at http://www.finance.gov.au/e-government/better-practice-and- collaboration/better-practice-checklists/index.html Others may wish to add to the list above. To add to Andrew's response, it's not clear if you're asking for general requirements legislated by governments (of all sites) or just for the requirements for government websites. In either case, many countries have multiple levels of government (national, state/province, local) and each level can have its own rules. Kerry (which I work for a state/local govt, and that makes it even more exciting) --- This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies of this transmission along with any attachments immediately. You should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. --- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] accessibility: government
As a general rule of thumb best practice would be to follow W3C guidelines. Cheers, Rae 2009/8/27 Webb, KerryA kerrya.w...@act.gov.au On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:40 AM, Lucl...@dzinelabs.com wrote: Good afternoon list, Does anybody know if their exists a list of what is required in terms of accessibility features for each country (governments)? -- Regards, Luc Hi Luc, here in Australia we have a couple of pieces of legislation, the main one being the Disability Discrimination Act - there is a guide to it at http://hreoc.gov.au/disability_rights/dda_guide/dda_guide.htm There are some Better Practice Guidelines that touch on a lot of accessibility issues (amongst others) at http://www.finance.gov.au/e-government/better-practice-and- collaboration/better-practice-checklists/index.html Others may wish to add to the list above. To add to Andrew's response, it's not clear if you're asking for general requirements legislated by governments (of all sites) or just for the requirements for government websites. In either case, many countries have multiple levels of government (national, state/province, local) and each level can have its own rules. Kerry (which I work for a state/local govt, and that makes it even more exciting) --- This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies of this transmission along with any attachments immediately. You should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. --- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- --- Rae Buerckner E: rae.buerck...@gmail.com M: +61 404 675 028 W: http://www.raebuerckner.com ACT Adobe Products User Group Manager http://groups.adobe.com/groups/8980662cdb/summary *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] accessibility: government
It's not that simple. We are working with some UK Government departments that still use WCAG 1.0 and will continue to do so until well into 2010. Other departments have already adopted WCAG 2.0. To answer the question, I do not believe such a list exists, and it would require continuous maintenance as governments switch at varying speeds from WCAG 1.0 to 2.0. This transition may take even longer in cases such as the US who have created their own accessibility requirements based on (but not the same as) the WCAG. Why do you want to know this information? Steve _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Rae Buerckner Sent: 26 August 2009 23:25 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] accessibility: government As a general rule of thumb best practice would be to follow W3C guidelines. Cheers, Rae 2009/8/27 Webb, KerryA kerrya.w...@act.gov.au On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:40 AM, Lucl...@dzinelabs.com wrote: Good afternoon list, Does anybody know if their exists a list of what is required in terms of accessibility features for each country (governments)? -- Regards, Luc Hi Luc, here in Australia we have a couple of pieces of legislation, the main one being the Disability Discrimination Act - there is a guide to it at http://hreoc.gov.au/disability_rights/dda_guide/dda_guide.htm There are some Better Practice Guidelines that touch on a lot of accessibility issues (amongst others) at http://www.finance.gov.au/e-government/better-practice-and- collaboration/better-practice-checklists/index.html Others may wish to add to the list above. To add to Andrew's response, it's not clear if you're asking for general requirements legislated by governments (of all sites) or just for the requirements for government websites. In either case, many countries have multiple levels of government (national, state/province, local) and each level can have its own rules. Kerry (which I work for a state/local govt, and that makes it even more exciting) --- This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies of this transmission along with any attachments immediately. You should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. --- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- --- Rae Buerckner E: rae.buerck...@gmail.com M: +61 404 675 028 W: http://www.raebuerckner.com ACT Adobe Products User Group Manager http://groups.adobe.com/groups/8980662cdb/summary *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] accessibility: government
Very useful links thanks Andrew On 27/08/2009, at 7:27 AM, Andrew Boyd faci...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:40 AM, Lucl...@dzinelabs.com wrote: Good afternoon list, Does anybody know if their exists a list of what is required in terms of accessibility features for each country (governments)? -- Regards, Luc Hi Luc, here in Australia we have a couple of pieces of legislation, the main one being the Disability Discrimination Act - there is a guide to it at http://hreoc.gov.au/disability_rights/dda_guide/dda_guide.htm There are some Better Practice Guidelines that touch on a lot of accessibility issues (amongst others) at http://www.finance.gov.au/e-government/better-practice-and-collaboration/better-practice-checklists/index.html Others may wish to add to the list above. Best regards, Andrew -- --- Andrew Boyd http://uxaustralia.com.au -- UX Australia Conference Canberra 2009 http://uxbookclub.org -- connect, read, discuss http://resilientnationaustralia.org Resilient Nation Australia *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Was: accessibility: government
Good evening list, Many thanks for the replies. Indeed, i was looking for a general list but as Steve pointed out, this would be difficult to maintain due to governments switching. -- Regards, Luc _ http://www.dzinelabs.com Using the best e-mail client: The Bat! version 4.2.6 with Windows XP (build 2600), version 5.1 Service Pack 3 and using the best browser: Opera. Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Was: accessibility: government
Luc wrote: Good evening list, Many thanks for the replies. Indeed, i was looking for a general list but as Steve pointed out, this would be difficult to maintain due to governments switching. W3C WAI has a list of Policies Relating to Web Accessibility for several countries at http://www.w3.org/WAI/Policy/ Indeed, it is out of date. It's on our To Do list to update and maintain it, but just hasn't made it to top priority yet. Many are adopting WCAG 2.0 Level AA as their standard. (WCAG is introduced at http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/wcag. Best, ~Shawn - Shawn Lawton Henry W3C Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) e-mail: sh...@w3.org phone: +1.617.395.7664 about: http://www.w3.org/People/Shawn/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] accessibility: government [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
There's also a guide for Australian Government agencies here: http://webpublishing.agimo.gov.au/ As a couple of people have said... at the end of the day it's just different flavours of W3C -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Sue Choong Sent: Thursday, 27 August 2009 9:29 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] accessibility: government Very useful links thanks Andrew On 27/08/2009, at 7:27 AM, Andrew Boyd faci...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:40 AM, Lucl...@dzinelabs.com wrote: Good afternoon list, Does anybody know if their exists a list of what is required in terms of accessibility features for each country (governments)? -- Regards, Luc Hi Luc, here in Australia we have a couple of pieces of legislation, the main one being the Disability Discrimination Act - there is a guide to it at http://hreoc.gov.au/disability_rights/dda_guide/dda_guide.htm There are some Better Practice Guidelines that touch on a lot of accessibility issues (amongst others) at http://www.finance.gov.au/e-government/better-practice-and-collaboration/better-practice-checklists/index.html Others may wish to add to the list above. Best regards, Andrew -- --- Andrew Boyd http://uxaustralia.com.au -- UX Australia Conference Canberra 2009 http://uxbookclub.org -- connect, read, discuss http://resilientnationaustralia.org Resilient Nation Australia *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** WARNING: The information contained in this email may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use or copying of any part of this information is unauthorised. If you have received this email in error, we apologise for any inconvenience and request that you notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this email, together with any attachments. *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] accessibility: government
http://www.gcio.nsw.gov.au/products-and-services/policies-guidelines/UsabilityAssessmentChecklist.pdf/view?searchterm=style%20guide -- Regards, Diganta Kumar m: 0408267082 e: mailtodiga...@gmail.com w: adsinfotech.com.au linkedIn: linkedin.com/in/digantakumar blog: digantakumar.com twitter: twitter.com/digantakumar facebook: profile.to/digantakumar On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:40 AM, Luc l...@dzinelabs.com wrote: Good afternoon list, Does anybody know if their exists a list of what is required in terms of accessibility features for each country (governments)? -- Regards, Luc _ http://www.dzinelabs.com Using the best e-mail client: The Bat! version 4.2.6 with Windows XP (build 2600), version 5.1 Service Pack 3 and using the best browser: Opera. Xerox never comes up with anything original. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Was: accessibility: government
Hello Shawn, It was foretold that on 26/08/2009 @ 19:45:38 GMT-0500 (which was 21:45:38 where I live) Shawn Henry would write: Tnx Shawn :-) SH W3C WAI has a list of Policies Relating to Web Accessibility SH for several countries at http://www.w3.org/WAI/Policy/ Indeed, SH it is out of date. It's on our To Do list to update and maintain SH it, but just hasn't made it to top priority yet. SH Many are adopting WCAG 2.0 Level AA as their standard. (WCAG is SH introduced at http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/wcag. -- Regards, Luc _ http://www.dzinelabs.com Using the best e-mail client: The Bat! version 4.2.6 with Windows XP (build 2600), version 5.1 Service Pack 3 and using the best browser: Opera. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
