[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Hello I am on holiday until Monday 9th August. If you need to speak to someone in the team before then please contact Richard Garbutt for operational issues and Dr Andy Jupe for financial or contractual matters. Best wishes John Cowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] EM bug in Safari 5?
On 2010/07/29 13:42 (GMT-0700) tee composed: > On Jul 29, 2010, at 12:55 PM, Felix Miata wrote: >>> It appears that safari does not equate font-size: 100% == 16px; >> If Safari's default has been adjusted to something other than 16px to >> accommodate user requirements, or in any other browser, it shouldn't. There's >> _no_ valid point in assuming any particular px size as a default size. > All browsers in my machine use default font size, because I find this is the > only way I could make websites render more consistently. Used to have 2px > extra large in all my browsers, it was very bad as I forgot about it, and a > number of sites I did, the font sizes turned out much smaller in clients' > machines. If you don't either: 1-have multiple browsers and/or profiles each with a multiplicity of default sizes set, or 2-constantly change the defaults in the only/few browser(s) you use, then you're testing inadequately for the way browsers are built by their developers and expected to be used by real users. Whether initial browser defaults are adequate for any particular environment depends on too many factors to expect no one to change them or need to change them. The web isn't paper. Paper design paradigms (e.g. consistence of mere appearance) are inappropriate for web design. On 2010/07/29 16:35 (GMT-0400) tee composed: > em only (width)- I forgot the correct link in my original post. > http://greensho.nexcess.net/em-vs-px/em-width2.html > It has nothing to do with Corbel font. > font: normal 16px/1.5em Arial, sans-serif > http://greensho.nexcess.net/em-vs-px/em-width3.html > font: normal 100%/1.5em Arial, sans-serif > http://greensho.nexcess.net/em-vs-px/em-width4.html > font: normal 1em/1.5em Arial, sans-serif > http://greensho.nexcess.net/em-vs-px/em-width5.html > Anybody has a Safari 4 to test on? I don't seen any difference on http://greensho.nexcess.net/em-vs-px/em-width.html between Safari 4.0.3 & FF 3.6.8, but I have my old G3 Tiger Mac on a big CRT display where 16px is actually a big enough default to use. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] EM bug in Safari 5?
On Jul 29, 2010, at 12:55 PM, Felix Miata wrote: > >> It appears that safari does not equate font-size: 100% == 16px; > > If Safari's default has been adjusted to something other than 16px to > accommodate user requirements, or in any other browser, it shouldn't. There's > _no_ valid point in assuming any particular px size as a default size. All browsers in my machine use default font size, because I find this is the only way I could make websites render more consistently. Used to have 2px extra large in all my browsers, it was very bad as I forgot about it, and a number of sites I did, the font sizes turned out much smaller in clients' machines. > >> Set your font-size to 16px instead of 100.1% and the width will be fixed. > > 1-it's rude I didn't think about rudeness, but I dislike using pixel in the body :-) tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] EM bug in Safari 5?
Thanks! Yes, font size in px in the body tag is the only way to make it work. em only (width)- I forgot the correct link in my original post. http://greensho.nexcess.net/em-vs-px/em-width2.html It has nothing to do with Corbel font. font: normal 16px/1.5em Arial, sans-serif http://greensho.nexcess.net/em-vs-px/em-width3.html font: normal 100%/1.5em Arial, sans-serif http://greensho.nexcess.net/em-vs-px/em-width4.html font: normal 1em/1.5em Arial, sans-serif http://greensho.nexcess.net/em-vs-px/em-width5.html Anybody has a Safari 4 to test on? tee On Jul 29, 2010, at 11:55 AM, Kepler Gelotte wrote: >> It's been quite a while I have to do a site using EM unit for the layout >> width (with max/min-widths treatment), I am getting a shrunk page in >> Safari. > > I see the same problem you mentioned in both safari on windows as well as > safari on the mac. > > It appears that safari does not equate font-size: 100% == 16px; > > Set your font-size to 16px instead of 100.1% and the width will be fixed. > Modern browsers will still be able to resize the font, but for IE you may > want to have a conditional comment and change the font-size back to 100.1%. > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Anya Gerasimchuk is out of the office.
I will be out of the office starting 07/29/2010 and will not return until 08/09/2010. *** This message may contain confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above and may contain information that is legally privileged. If you are not the addressee, or the person responsible for delivering it to the addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, disseminating, distributing or copying this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message by mistake, please immediately notify us by replying to the message and delete the original message immediately thereafter. Thank you. *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] EM bug in Safari 5?
On 2010/07/29 14:55 (GMT-0400) Kepler Gelotte composed: > On 2010/07/29 10:29 (GMT-0700) tee composed: >> It's been quite a while I have to do a site using EM unit for the layout >> width (with max/min-widths treatment), I am getting a shrunk page in >> Safari. Here on Linux, it's about 1500px wide in FF and Google Chrome unstable (which uses same Webkit engine as Safari). If Safari isn't doing the same, it must be a Safari-specific bug. http://dowebsitesneedtolookexactlythesameineverybrowser.com/ I wonder for those who do see a difference if it is because on Safari an em may not be generic, but rather specific to the actual font-family. Maybe FF is measuring generically, while Safari is measuring based upon the diminuitive Corbel. Do you see the same result if you remove '"Corbel", Arial,' from the CSS? > I see the same problem you mentioned in both safari on windows as well as > safari on the mac. > It appears that safari does not equate font-size: 100% == 16px; If Safari's default has been adjusted to something other than 16px to accommodate user requirements, or in any other browser, it shouldn't. There's _no_ valid point in assuming any particular px size as a default size. > Set your font-size to 16px instead of 100.1% and the width will be fixed. 1-it's rude 2-it defeats one major purpose of em sizing (to accommodate/honor visitor requirements, while maintaining a design's proportions to whatever extent viewport size permits) > Modern browsers will still be able to resize the font, but for IE you may I've "re"sized in advance by setting my default to to something other than 16px meet my needs. I shouldn't have to do it again on every rude page I load. True resize is a browser defense mechanism. It only need be applied on encountering offensive CSS. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] EM bug in Safari 5?
> It's been quite a while I have to do a site using EM unit for the layout > width (with max/min-widths treatment), I am getting a shrunk page in > Safari. I see the same problem you mentioned in both safari on windows as well as safari on the mac. It appears that safari does not equate font-size: 100% == 16px; Set your font-size to 16px instead of 100.1% and the width will be fixed. Modern browsers will still be able to resize the font, but for IE you may want to have a conditional comment and change the font-size back to 100.1%. Best regards, Kepler Gelotte Neighbor Webmaster, Inc. 156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854 www.neighborwebmaster.com phone/fax: (732) 302-0904 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] EM bug in Safari 5?
tee wrote: In these two examples, the width is 62em which is around 992px according to pxtoem dot com, but in Safari 5 it's around 871px in actual size. First I thought maybe it's because I mixed the EM and % (for left/content columns), so I did another test page using EM only, still getting the same result. http://greensho.nexcess.net/em-vs-px/em-width.html My monitor is 27" 2560x1440 resolution, but I don't think this is the reason. Can you confirm if you see the same? Thanks! tee Mac OS X 10.4.11 [116.5dpi] Safari, WebKit, Camino, FF approx 993 to 995px Mac OS X 10.4.11 [116.5dpi] Parallels XP Safari, FF, IE 6/7/8 approx 993 to 995px Best, ~d -- http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] EM bug in Safari 5?
It's been quite a while I have to do a site using EM unit for the layout width (with max/min-widths treatment), I am getting a shrunk page in Safari. In these two examples, the width is 62em which is around 992px according to pxtoem dot com, but in Safari 5 it's around 871px in actual size. First I thought maybe it's because I mixed the EM and % (for left/content columns), so I did another test page using EM only, still getting the same result. EM and % http://greensho.nexcess.net/em-vs-px/em-width.html http://greensho.nexcess.net/em-vs-px/em-width.png EM only http://greensho.nexcess.net/em-vs-px/em-width.html http://greensho.nexcess.net/em-vs-px/safari-ss.png My monitor is 27" 2560x1440 resolution, but I don't think this is the reason. Can you confirm if you see the same? Thanks! tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
