Re: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5
On 18 Aug 2010, at 23:40, Rob Crowther wrote:
On 18/08/10 17:51, tee wrote:
This example doesn't look very semantic to me :-) Is there a tag
that can replace or substitute the use of headings?
If you properly nest your section and article elements then you
can use just h1 everywhere:
section
h1Monday/h1
article
h1First post/h1
p...
/article
article
h1Second post/h1
p...
/article
/section
section
h1Tuesday/h1
article
h1First post...
The weight of each heading is then determined by the outlining
algorithm:
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/sections.html#outlines
So the section or article elements could be taken out of context and
displayed elsewhere but retain their h1 headings.
You could, but I still use the h1 to h2 inside the sections because no
browser uses the sectioning algorithm for thing like styling. So all
the H1s will be the size set by the h1 selector, unless you do
something like:
section h1 { }
section + section h1 { }
section + section + section h1 { }
etc… which is verbose.
Is this what you meant?
There was some discussion about replacing h1-6 with, simply, h and
letting the outline algorithm determine the weight, but this was
eventually dropped for backwards compatibility reasons.
Rob
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W3C WG: Mobile Web Best Practices / SVG Interest Group
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Re: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5
On 19/08/2010 10:13, David Storey wrote: So the section or article elements could be taken out of context and displayed elsewhere but retain their h1 headings. You could, but I still use the h1 to h2 inside the sections because no browser uses the sectioning algorithm for thing like styling. Also worth pointing out that, to my knowledge, no AT/screen reader currently supports it either, so this may cause some issues for these users at present. P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com | http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ __ twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Current thinking on fixed width/liquid design ?
I prefer liquid layouts, but I use a max-width property to control how wide my content is allowed to get. *Ben Davies* On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Lyn Smith l...@westernwebdesign.com.auwrote: Good morning Was wondering what the latest opinions are on using fixed width or liquid design in light of the ever increasing size of monitor screens. Having just got a new computer with a 24 screen, I was not happy with the look of some of my liquid design sites. While they are OK in screen resolutions up to 1280, above that, they seem too stretched out. One in particular had a couple of lines of text which went from one side of the screen to the other - not a good look. It seems to me, going by the sites I have frequented of late, that many seem to favour fixed width of 900-1000px which requires scrolling for 800x600 resolutions but don't look too bad whatever the higher size of screen and resolution. -- Lyn Smith www.westernwebdesign.com.au Affordable website design Perth WA *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5
Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
On 19/08/2010 10:13, David Storey wrote:
So the section or article elements could be taken out of context and
displayed elsewhere but retain their h1 headings.
You could, but I still use the h1 to h2 inside the sections because no
browser uses the sectioning algorithm for thing like styling.
I think Firefox 4.0 will, this will also be the first version of Firefox
to have the HTML5 parser enabled by default. Styling is especially fun
because it's not just sections you have to worry about, several other
elements also create a new sectioning context. Life will be made easier
by the new any() selector:
/* Level 0 */
h1 {
font-size: 30px;
}
/* Level 1 */
:-moz-any(section, article, aside, nav) h1 {
font-size: 25px;
}
/* Level 2 */
:-moz-any(section, article, aside, nav)
:-moz-any(section, article, aside, nav) h1 {
font-size: 20px;
}
/* Level 3 */
:-moz-any(section, article, aside, nav)
:-moz-any(section, article, aside, nav)
:-moz-any(section, article, aside, nav) h1 {
font-size: 15px;
}
https://developer.mozilla.org/en/CSS/:-moz-any
Also worth pointing out that, to my knowledge, no AT/screen reader
currently supports it either, so this may cause some issues for these
users at present.
Similarly the native semantics of elements like header and nav don't yet
have any impact on screen readers which support the similar ARIA roles
(unless NVDA added support?) so you should add them even when there's
duplication:
http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/content-models.html#annotations-for-assistive-technology-products-aria
Rob
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Re: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5
On 19 Aug 2010, at 11:51, Rob Crowther wrote:
Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
On 19/08/2010 10:13, David Storey wrote:
So the section or article elements could be taken out of context
and
displayed elsewhere but retain their h1 headings.
You could, but I still use the h1 to h2 inside the sections
because no
browser uses the sectioning algorithm for thing like styling.
I think Firefox 4.0 will, this will also be the first version of
Firefox to have the HTML5 parser enabled by default. Styling is
especially fun because it's not just sections you have to worry
about, several other elements also create a new sectioning context.
Life will be made easier by the new any() selector:
maybe, but any is not backwards compatible so not really an option to
use any time soon, and is (AFAICT) a Mozilla only extension that is
not in any specification. As it isn't even in any spec, even if it
does get accepted by the CSS working group, it will take ages to be
specced up, refined and included in the other browsers.
This is why I just stick to using the appropriate h* element for the
section level that stick to h1, as it is more backwards compatible and
solves all the head scratching.
/* Level 0 */
h1 {
font-size: 30px;
}
/* Level 1 */
:-moz-any(section, article, aside, nav) h1 {
font-size: 25px;
}
/* Level 2 */
:-moz-any(section, article, aside, nav)
:-moz-any(section, article, aside, nav) h1 {
font-size: 20px;
}
/* Level 3 */
:-moz-any(section, article, aside, nav)
:-moz-any(section, article, aside, nav)
:-moz-any(section, article, aside, nav) h1 {
font-size: 15px;
}
https://developer.mozilla.org/en/CSS/:-moz-any
Also worth pointing out that, to my knowledge, no AT/screen reader
currently supports it either, so this may cause some issues for
these users at present.
Similarly the native semantics of elements like header and nav don't
yet have any impact on screen readers which support the similar ARIA
roles (unless NVDA added support?) so you should add them even when
there's duplication:
http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/content-models.html#annotations-for-assistive-technology-products-aria
Rob
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David Storey
Chief Web Opener / Product Manager, Opera Dragonfly
W3C WG: Mobile Web Best Practices / SVG Interest Group
Opera Software ASA, Oslo, Norway
Mobile: +47 94 22 02 32 / E-Mail/XMPP: dsto...@opera.com / Twitter:
dstorey
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Re: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5
On 19/08/2010 11:51, Rob Crowther wrote: Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Also worth pointing out that, to my knowledge, no AT/screen reader currently supports it either, so this may cause some issues for these users at present. Similarly the native semantics of elements like header and nav don't yet have any impact on screen readers which support the similar ARIA roles (unless NVDA added support?) so you should add them even when there's duplication: http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/content-models.html#annotations-for-assistive-technology-products-aria However, with the new outline/sectioning algorithm, you can potentially go well over the classic h1-h6 number of heading levels, while the ARIA additional hints only allow mapping back to those six levels. In principle though, absolutely. P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com | http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ __ twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5
David Storey wrote: maybe, but any is not backwards compatible so not really an option to use any time soon, and is (AFAICT) a Mozilla only extension that is not in any specification. As it isn't even in any spec, even if it does get accepted by the CSS working group, it will take ages to be specced up, refined and included in the other browsers. I think that its incredible usefulness for this particular scenario will lead to very quick uptake by other browser engines as their own HTML5 parsing support comes online, eg. WebKit switched over (in development builds) earlier this month: http://webkit.org/blog/1273/the-html5-parsing-algorithm/ I'm hopeful standardizing of any (or similar) can go a bit quicker than 'normal' as the main benefit of this selector is brevity, and the main drawback of vendor extensions is the lack of brevity from having to state the same thing five times. I won't be holding my breath, mind you... This is why I just stick to using the appropriate h* element for the section level that stick to h1, as it is more backwards compatible and solves all the head scratching. Of course in practical situations you should just pick and choose the parts of HTML5 that work across browsers and are completely backwards compatible, but some of us enjoy a bit of head scratching now and again :) Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Current thinking on fixed width/liquid design ?
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010, Ben Davies wrote: I prefer liquid layouts, but I use a max-width property to control how wide my content is allowed to get. That's what I do, too. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Lyn Smith l...@westernwebdesign.com.auwrote: Good morning Was wondering what the latest opinions are on using fixed width or liquid design in light of the ever increasing size of monitor screens. Having just got a new computer with a 24 screen, I was not happy with the look of some of my liquid design sites. While they are OK in screen resolutions up to 1280, above that, they seem too stretched out. One in particular had a couple of lines of text which went from one side of the screen to the other - not a good look. It seems to me, going by the sites I have frequented of late, that many seem to favour fixed width of 900-1000px which requires scrolling for 800x600 resolutions but don't look too bad whatever the higher size of screen and resolution. -- Lyn Smith www.westernwebdesign.com.au Affordable website design Perth WA *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Chris F.A. Johnson, http://cfajohnson.com Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Current thinking on fixed width/liquid design ?
Thanks everyone - the media queries look interesting and I will definitely take on max-width. -- Lyn Smith www.westernwebdesign.com.au Affordable website design Perth WA *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Video Accessibility Help
Hi all, Has anyone heard of Sorenson Communications? They handle free communications for deaf, etc. - http://www.sorensonvrs.com/svrs. From what I can tell, it looks like a good way to try out. Did I mention it's free??? Kevin -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Spellacy, Michael Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 1:05 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Video Accessibility Help Every little bit helps, John. These look like good places to start. Thank you. If anybody else has anything to share please keep it coming. I stumbled upon a site called subply.com which will create caption files (in various flavors) based on the audio track in video. It seems like a pretty decent service. Sent from my iPod On Jun 15, 2010, at 9:13 PM, John Unsworth john.unswo...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Michael, Your first port of call might be the WCAG2 guidelines, found here; http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/#media-equiv I also did a quick search for accessible online video best practice and this link to a PDF from the US Department of Health and Human Services exactly on the topic of Online Viral Video Requirements and Best Practices might be useful to you. It is dated Jan 2010 and covers the departments use of YouTube (and other video providers) and importantly Section 508 compliance. A good deal of the document regards brand guidelines as much as technical requirements, but in that regards questions about dimension and file size and type might be useful knowledge. This was the PDF link; www.cdc.gov/socialmedia/Tools/guidelines/pdf/onlinevideo.pdf Accessibility advocate Joe Clark I recall became very interested in the question and quality of captioned video. From my search above this resource of links from the Victorian Government in Australia might also be useful; http://www.egov.vic.gov.au/website-practice/online-video-content.html I'm not that knowledgeable about Flash, but to your questions I recall seeing a presentation from Adobe regards CS4 and that their Audio program, whose name escapes me, could extract Caption text and that in turn that file could be brought into Flash. However I thought it was an XML file. I also understood that using ActionScript you could program the import of the XML file, but the last time I used Flash was at school and it was Flash8 and given the presentation I mentioned it might be a tool built in?? Of course how this would be handled in HTML5 I'm less clear on:) Didn't really answer your questions directly, but I hope some of this is useful. Cheers, John Unsworth *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Current thinking on fixed width/liquid design ?
Lyn, If you need to cover IE6 then you might need to make adjustments as it does not recognise max-width. I think the Dean Edwards JavaScript solution helps here. Regards, Grant Bailey -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Lyn Smith Sent: Thursday, 19 August 2010 11:30 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Current thinking on fixed width/liquid design ? Thanks everyone - the media queries look interesting and I will definitely take on max-width. -- Lyn Smith www.westernwebdesign.com.au Affordable website design Perth WA *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
