[WSG] Multiple pseudo class selectors

2010-10-14 Thread Grant Bailey
Hello, I was wondering whether it is acceptable CSS to combine pseudo class selectors, like this: div#div_Navigation ul li:first-child:before { ... [STYLES HERE] } The W3C CSS validator does not complain and my versions of Firefox, Chrome, Safari or Opera display the style. Internet Explorer 7

[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest

2010-10-14 Thread Carbis, Che
Thanks for your email, I am travelling interstate and will have limited access to email. If you are a client of Hitwise and require imediate technical assistance, please contact our support team support...@hitwise.com. Otherwise I will respond to your email as soon as I can Regards, Ché

Re: [WSG] Multiple pseudo class selectors

2010-10-14 Thread tee
Just some thoughts 1. :before is not supported by IE7 2. if :before is supported by IE7.js, Dean Edwards may not anticipated the use of multiple selectors in such manner, thus thus the script ignores it. 3. (Though very unlikely) If you have a set of group selectors and this

[WSG] Image Maps

2010-10-14 Thread Tom Livingston
Are image maps still ok? -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe:

Re: [WSG] Image Maps

2010-10-14 Thread David Dorward
On 14 Oct 2010, at 17:27, Tom Livingston wrote: Are image maps still ok? Still? Server side image maps are as inaccessible as ever. Client side image maps had issues last time I looked at them, but things might have improved since then. http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/mapalt.html is

Re: [WSG] Image Maps

2010-10-14 Thread Tom Livingston
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 12:52 PM, David Dorward da...@dorward.me.uk wrote: On 14 Oct 2010, at 17:27, Tom Livingston wrote: Are image maps still ok? Still? Server side image maps are as inaccessible as ever. Client side image maps had issues last time I looked at them, but things might

Re: [WSG] Image Maps

2010-10-14 Thread Christian Montoya
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 12:52 PM, David Dorward da...@dorward.me.uk wrote: On 14 Oct 2010, at 17:27, Tom Livingston wrote: Are image maps still ok? Still? Server side image maps are as inaccessible as ever. Client

RE: [WSG] Image Maps

2010-10-14 Thread Steve Green
-Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Christian Montoya Sent: 14 October 2010 18:56 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Image Maps On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu,

Re: [WSG] Image Maps

2010-10-14 Thread Christian Snodgrass
Can you use an image map? Yes. Do people still use image maps? Yes. Should you find a better way to implement it? Absolutely. Basically image maps can be used, but they aren't usually a good idea. A better method would be to split it up into separate images and smash them together to look

Re: [WSG] Image Maps

2010-10-14 Thread cat soul
On Oct 14, 2010, at 12:09 PM, Christian Snodgrass wrote: Basically image maps can be used, but they aren't usually a good idea. A better method would be to split it up into separate images and smash them together to look like one map. This lets you add alt tags and what-not to make it

Re: [WSG] Image Maps

2010-10-14 Thread Christian Snodgrass
You can use transparent images and negative margins. The simplest way to set this up would be to use a program like Fireworks (which lets you move stuff around freely and gives you an x and y). Cut up all of your states into separate images with transparent backgrounds. Then you can bring them

RE: [WSG] Image Maps

2010-10-14 Thread Dan Freeman
If you use PNG's and negative margins, this would allow you to piece together images, but how would you handle hovering or clicking? For example, if you had a circle image with a transparent background, how would you identify hovering or clicking only on the circle piece? Dan Freeman

Re: [WSG] Image Maps

2010-10-14 Thread Hassan Schroeder
On 10/14/10 1:23 PM, Christian Snodgrass wrote: If you needed to get more exact, you could use any number of Javascript script to get more exact results. And all this thrashing about is going to provide a more accessible solution than an image map? The exact solution depends on the exact

Re: [WSG] Image Maps

2010-10-14 Thread Christian Snodgrass
In the US map problem, an image map may make sense. However, there are many more in which an image map doesn't make sense. For example, having a graphical menu with an image map, having a header image map for links, etc. These would be better done using separate images. Also, sometimes a

Re: [WSG] Image Maps

2010-10-14 Thread Henrik Madsen
US map example: http://davidlynch.org/js/maphilight/docs/demo_usa.html Henrik Madsen +61 08 9387 1250 hen...@igenerator.com.au www.igenerator.com.au On 15/10/2010, at 7:19 AM, Christian Snodgrass wrote: In the US map problem, an image map may make sense. However, there are many more in

Re: [WSG] Image Maps

2010-10-14 Thread cat soul
On Oct 14, 2010, at 4:19 PM, Christian Snodgrass wrote: I'm not saying image maps should never be used... I'm saying that you should keep in mind alternatives because image maps are frequently abuse That is completely clear and understandable. And, I would as (as I don't know) are image

Re: [WSG] Image Maps

2010-10-14 Thread Mathew Robertson
US map example: http://davidlynch.org/js/maphilight/docs/demo_usa.html That isn't really a good example of accessibility + images-maps, as it doesn't have any... maybe it could be updated to use the tabindex attribute. cheers, Mathew Robertson

Re: [WSG] Image Maps

2010-10-14 Thread Christian Snodgrass
That map also illustrates the problem with image maps. Disable images and refresh the page. It becomes completely unusable (granted there are ways to make the image map work better with no images, but this is the more common situation). If they were all separate images with their own alt tags,

[WSG] list style with inline image issue

2010-10-14 Thread tee
In this page: http://lotusseedsdesign.com/css-test/list-style.html Only Firefox got it right. Have not checked in IE yet. li {padding-bottom: 5px;clear: both;list-style-type: disc;margin-left: 25px;} li img {float: left;margin-right:10px;margin-bottom: 10px;border:0}

[WSG] Re: list style with inline image issue

2010-10-14 Thread tee
Forgot to say, I am not interested in background image approach in this case. tee On Oct 14, 2010, at 4:43 PM, tee wrote: In this page: http://lotusseedsdesign.com/css-test/list-style.html Only Firefox got it right. Have not checked in IE yet. li {padding-bottom: 5px;clear:

Re: [WSG] Image Maps

2010-10-14 Thread Christian Snodgrass
As far as I know, image maps are not deprecated... just often abused so you should really consider your options. I agree with your little analogy as well. I'd evaluate exactly what the problem is and then pick a solution. For example, if all the shapes in the potential map are square, it'd be

Re: [WSG] Image Maps

2010-10-14 Thread Mathew Robertson
That is unnecessary - area's support alt. With both CSS and images disabled, a useragent should be able to draw the USA-map graphically using a fallback css; if using a text-browser, it could render it as a list - whether they actually do, is an entirely different problem, ie: if an image has

Re: [WSG] Image Maps

2010-10-14 Thread Christian Snodgrass
Agreed. However, with the separate images you can put them in an unordered list yourself to control the display a bit more closely. I'm not saying any of these are 100% good all the time. I like to soak up as many different techniques as possible and choose the one that is the most appropriate

[WSG] So this is *the* good accessible keyboard supported dropdown menu?

2010-10-14 Thread tee
Disclaimer: This is not a sarcastic question. At Menubar, try tab through the link using your keyboard, right after you hit File, the next link it headed is the download link below the Source. http://hanshillen.github.com/aegisdemo/ As a Superfish script and a frequent keyboard navigation

Re: [WSG] list style with inline image issue

2010-10-14 Thread Tim White
Tee, Just a quick test I came up with this: li { padding-bottom: 5px; clear: both; list-style-type: disc; padding-left: 75px; margin-bottom: 50px; position: relative; } li img { position: absolute; top: 0; left: 0;

Re: [WSG] list style with inline image issue

2010-10-14 Thread tee
Tim, Thanks! This won't work very well though because not all LIs have image and I can't foresee which one will not have. Your example gave me an idea to remove the float, and it seems to be working. See the test page again! vertical-align:top makes the image aligns with the text. tee On

RE: [WSG] So this is *the* good accessible keyboard supported dropdown menu?

2010-10-14 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Probably. I think there is a faction in the accessibility community that believes a web page menu should work like a desktop application or OS menu. The problem is that web surfing civilians who use the keyboard are accustomed to the tab key (or equiv) and not the arrow keys for navigating a

Re: [WSG] So this is *the* good accessible keyboard supported dropdown menu?

2010-10-14 Thread Al Sparber
From: Thierry Koblentz thierry.koble...@gmail.com What is the solution you're talking about? That link you posted does not tell us much about your own simplistic, unsophisticated way, nor what is your different view of menu Accessibility. It must be so simple it went over your head :-) I'm