Re: [WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites
On 28/12/11 7:39 PM, coder wrote: So, why do some folk think that's OK, but if you are using a browser it's awful? I think it comes down to predictability. The various programs mentioned open new windows in a predictable pattern - one knows when a new window will open. Websites open windows not only unpredictably (ignoring the small status bar message which I note, but I'm sure Jo(e) Public doesn't) but somewhat invisibly - it isn't always obvious if you blink at the wrong moment that a new window opened, it just looks like the back button stopped working... IMHO Lea -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems Brisbane, .au *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites
This subject and me have some history so please excuse me if I get a little ranty. I’ll do my level best to be rational and on topic. Here goes… To my mind this comes down to a very simple question: What will the user of the website (or piece of software) you are building expect to happen when they click the link? Broadly speaking I believe if you are providing a surprise you need a good reason to do so. If by performing an action that causes something unexpected to happen, an inexperienced users confidence in their ability to use and anticipate how your software works will be eroded. When you surprise an experienced user they are more likely to blame the software rather than themselves for the annoyance. Either outcome is not desirable. Surprise can be wonderful. Essential, for example, to an effective ending to any great movie. I love useful surprises built into software that anticipate my needs. Opening a new window automatically is hardly a delight. The only time I have found it useful for a window to open in fresh browser chrome is where I have a need to see the information on both pages simultaneously. These kind of “pop-up” windows tend to be significantly smaller than the window that launched them. After all the website designer couldn’t presume to know the size of my monitor! These are the kind of utility windows are commonly seen within desktop software. On a website they have been made largely redundant by JavaScript libraries that make it easy to load or reveal information or options within the page to which they have a direct relationship. There is a different (almost opposite) reason many people want links on their web page to open in a new window. This is the one that I find most annoying. They want visitors clicking a link on their site to notice the new window and read it to mean something like: “The link I just clicked is to a website separate to that which I was just looking at. I won’t want to linger there long. It’s a distraction. I’ll pop my head in for a little peek. When I’m done in a moment I can just close this new window to come back to the more important website and continue along my way. A little presumptuous don’t you think? That other website may be exactly what I was looking for. If not, consider what happens when I can’t see the first site (now concealed under the new window) and I reach for the most useful button in my browser – the back button. Nothing. By opening a new window have created a new thread of browsing history for me. If I was an experienced user I would know and understand what happened and recover quickly. I would also know how and when to open a fresh window on my own (I don’t need your help with the items on my desk thank-you). If I was new to this internet thing I may not understand such technicalities and feel needlessly frustrated. I’d love to be able to pull out some user testing that supports my take on this. Sadly I cannot – so take it as experienced opinion and consider the specific context you are working in. Here’s an exception to consider right in front of me. GMail. It is not surprising to me that the links open in a new window because in my experience my email application does not disappear when I click a link in an email. To avoid the surprise you may inform us with phrase or an icon alongside a link that will open in a new window. If in doubt, keep it simple and do what people expect. Use a regular link. Keep the surprises to the twists of action thrillers. Thankfully pop-up windows don’t kill people. Happy New Year when it comes Ollie -- @ollicle *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites
On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 12:49 PM, coder wrote: > SO you mean that mr Dreamweaver programmer, or Mr outlook, etc etc . . . > shouldn't do it either? Since they aren't navigating hypermedia, I'm not sure that's comparable. But typically you have a fine degree of user control of the opening of new windows in such programs. At the very least, it's predictable. -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites
SO you mean that mr Dreamweaver programmer, or Mr outlook, etc etc . . . shouldn't do it either? Bob :-) - Original Message - From: "Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 9:39 AM, coder wrote: What fascinates me (still) is that a PC (laptop, whatever) works by displaying many windows. Hell fire, the OS is called 'windows' . . . (unless you are a fruit fan). All the common programs employ 'several' windows to make their functionality easier to handle (just look at Dreamweaver or any other web design program of that ilk!) So, why do some folk think that's OK, but if you are using a browser it's awful? Strawman. Being able to open multiple browser windows is great! Having Joe Random Site Author decide when that should happen is not. -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites
On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 9:39 AM, coder wrote: > What fascinates me (still) is that a PC (laptop, whatever) works by > displaying many windows. Hell fire, the OS is called 'windows' . . . (unless > you are a fruit fan). All the common programs employ 'several' windows to > make their functionality easier to handle (just look at Dreamweaver or any > other web design program of that ilk!) So, why do some folk think that's OK, > but if you are using a browser it's awful? Strawman. Being able to open multiple browser windows is great! Having Joe Random Site Author decide when that should happen is not. -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of Office
I will be out of the office until January 3rd. If you have an urgent matter contact Chet at c...@inetsgi.com or dial 402.330.0636 x1001. Thank you. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites
What fascinates me (still) is that a PC (laptop, whatever) works by displaying many windows. Hell fire, the OS is called 'windows' . . . (unless you are a fruit fan). All the common programs employ 'several' windows to make their functionality easier to handle (just look at Dreamweaver or any other web design program of that ilk!) So, why do some folk think that's OK, but if you are using a browser it's awful? Are these folk still using DOS with one screen at a time? Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
