Re: [WSG] How do you cater to users with disabilities?
we have a new super-hero in our midst, keeping the city safe from people with disabilities and their nonsense. You'll see him in a costume pushing in front of disabled people trying to get on a bus and yelling his catch phrase 'tough luck' as the the door closes. Thanks No Nonsense Man! -- Chris Knowles On 26/08/11 3:15 PM, Jay Tanna wrote: Personally I don't go out of my way to do anything special. I design the site as it comes and if some people can't access it - tough luck. There is no point in spending any additional time or money in buying specialist tools for people who are challenged in some form! Some people on certain forums call me dragon because of my no nonsense views and I don't normally let them down!. --- On Thu, 18/8/11, Mike Kearw...@afpwebworks.com wrote: How to the rest of you a/b people (i.e. able bodied) cater to users with various forms of disability? Up until recently, I've tended to rely on keeping my code to standards, eliminating tables except for their proper purpose of tabulating data, and hoping that will give the accessibility level required. Do you go to the step of accessing your sites with JAWS or something similar to see how the site works for users with screen readers? I remember in the 1990s when I was working at Australian Consumers Association (choice.com.au) we had someone come and bring his PC with JAWS. The web team all sat in the boardroom getting ever more glum looks on our faces as we saw to our horror how terrible our new design was for this poor guy. We thought we'd got a terrific new design, and were about to launch it, when he did this demo for us. We had to go back and recode everything. This was before anyone was talking about standards though - it was back when the normally accepted method of laying out pages was to use tables, and buttons were nearly always images. I remember being astounded at how fast he was moving around the page, even though we'd unwittingly designed an obstacle course of humungous proportions for him. Our anguish at the time resulted in a far better web site, and convinced me to pay attention to standards and accessibility ever since. But now I'm wondering if simply sticking to standards is enough? What do you all think? Do you include JAWS in your site testing? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] CSS support of HTML5 tags not ready yet?
try adding display: block - by default they are usually displayed as inline
in ie you need to add them via javascript before it will recognise them:
document.createElement(header);
--
Chris Knowles
On 27/09/10 8:13 PM, tee wrote:
Only the two Webkit browsers are able to render the header and footer
correctly.
http://lotusseedsdesign.com/css-test/templegate.html
header {
height : 300px;
width : 980px;
text-align : center;
position : relative;
clear : both;
overflow : hidden;
margin : 0 auto;
border : 1px solid #369;
background : #ddd;
}
I can't find anything wrong with my style sheet and the html code.
tee
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Re: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5
a 'div' definitely has meaning, ie: it is a division of one part of the page, from another; whether it is used for other behaviour, doesn't preclude it from from its original meaning. but when everything is in a div, div ceases to have much meaning. It simply says theres a bunch of things on the page that are separate to each other without giving any clue as to what they might contain Similarly, a #id was originally designated as the location within a page, not for CSS - semantically it is to reference a particular piece of information, within the bigger piece of content, eg: a section header maybe... It just so happens that it works really well for CSS too. And simplifying content manipulation. And so on. but in the context of the question, the reason to use header, for instance, vs div id=header, is to add meaning to the markup I'm not sure why you would infer that information in section's, is any more important than stuff written in a div? Can you elaborate? ie: assistive technologies can already target div's, so using that argument needs more. I didn't intend to infer that, I was just trying to show how section is more useful because it can be programmatically accessed in a way that div id=section can't. With regard to relevance of content, I was just trying to say that a search engine *might* choose to weight content in a given tag more than in another, whereas if everything is in a div it's harder to do this. A better example would have been to have said that the content in article *might* be more relevant to a search engine than the content in aside - compared with div id=article and div id=sidebar which would be harder to tell apart. -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5
Tom, I think the answer to that is semantics - div has no meaning. Id's are there for you to manipulate the look and behaviour, the tags themselves offer a way for third parties to glean meaning from the page. e.g you could build an overview of a page by grabbing the first bit of text inside each section, assistive technologies can benefit from knowing what part of the page is the main part, header, footer, asdie or google might give greater weight to any text inside a section etc. The problem is that IE currently doesn't recognise these tags, but if you do this for any element it does... script document. createElement(‘ header’ ); document. createElement(‘ nav’ ) ; document. createElement(‘ article’ ) ; document. createElement(‘ footer’ ); /script or use this which includes it... http://remysharp.com/2009/01/07/html5-enabling-script/ except the issue here is that it makes your page dependent on javascript. Without it some elements will be styled in IE, some won't (the above comes from Introducing HTML5 by Remy Sharp and Bruce Lawson) -- Chris Knowles On 13/08/10 6:38 AM, Tom Livingston wrote: List, Here's a theory question ( i think) for ya. I'm working on a layout, and am attempting to usesection andaside. Properly, I believe. But as I look at my layout, I'm thinking ok, i'll put an ID on this section, and one on that section... and I stopped and thought Uh oh... it's the same as i've always done withdiv id= etc. Am I wrong? Is there still benefit to usingsection... I don't wanna just substitute div for section... am I way off track already?? help... *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Using a dot . in a class name
I would have thought the problem would be when you want to use it in a
stylesheet...
.ratingL-4.5 {...}
presumably a browser will read this as two classes. But if it's purely
there for something like javascript to grab hold of and interpret it
should be ok
--
Chris Knowles
Jens-Uwe Korff wrote:
Hi all,
I've noticed that YouTube uses a dot for its star rating:
button class=[...] ratingL ratingL-4.5
It seems to work in browsers, but I'd like to know if this character is valid
and if it might have future implications if used that way.
Thanks,
Jens
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Re: [WSG] Data URI encoder
The main application is to reduce HTTP requests and thereby increase page delivery speed. Hi Mike, I see that the page you refer to links to a stylesheet with 4 images embedded in it, rather than the stylesheet linking to those 4 images, therefore, you have one http request rather than 5 and also, that stylesheet has an expires header set to 10 years from now. You say it's a lot faster, but I question the value of going to this trouble. I agree there is a performance gain, but if you link to the images from the stylesheet instead and also set an expires header on them then subsequent page loads become irrelevant so it's just the initial visit with an empty cache that is affected. Given that the download size is pretty much the same with either method, the only gain i can see is a marginal one from those initial extra 4 http requests. Is that really such a huge gain? -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Strange Table Border Rendering in everything BUT FF and IE
Cole Kuryakin wrote: Hello All - This is the first time I've come across this issue. First, go here in either FireFox or IE7 or greater: http://www.sangat.ph/index.php?cmd=08.01.00 Both of these browsers render two guestbook entries (displayed in a table) with a thin green line set on the top border of each of the two tables. This is the way it should look. Now, if you go to the same page with Opera, Safari (windows), or Chrome, the table border only renders to the width of td class=flag within each of these two tables. Hummm. Hi Cole in the first row the td needs a colspan of 2 I think table cellspacing=0 class=guestBook trtdnbsp;/td/tr should be... table cellspacing=0 class=guestBook trtd colspan='2'nbsp;/td/tr -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] web hosting
info wrote: Also, not meaning to flame you, but if you think the server needs to support javascript, then I doubt you really know what your doing. Javascript comes down to the client side browser, not the server side host. javascript is a server side and client side language, so maybe Marvin needs it on the server Marvin, is this a small project site or a commercial site? Because if it's just a project, maybe theres someone out there with some kind of reseller account that could give you some space for free? I have one and I would, but it's Linux/Apache/MySQL/PHP hosting. As others have stated, the problem you have is the technologies you require have expensive licenses and so free hosting is going to be hard to come by. But if you confirm it's only a small site, maybe someone out there has a bit of spare space? -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] JavaScript and Accessibility
Chris Taylor wrote: From: Chris Knowles I wouldn't be waiting for ARIA to get out of draft before using it :) It has pretty good support in browsers already so get stuck in. And because essentially all you are doing with ARIA is adding attributes to tags, the worst that can happen is your pages no longer validate - but who cares if you are making them more accessible? I think validation is still important to ensure a consistent and future-proof experience across browsers yes, so you still run your code through the validator and make sure it only fails on the ARIA attributes - that way you save yourself a whole lot of trouble. I don't really understand inserting attributes with javascript just so you get a tick from the validator? Maybe I'm missing something but what benefit does that bring? And validators will catch up at some point anyway. -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] JavaScript and Accessibility
Chris Taylor wrote: Adding ARIA attributes using JavaScript is therefore part of progressive enhancement does that actually work? My understanding is that one problem ARIA addresses is that when javascript alters the DOM, assistive technologies don't necessarily get notified of the changes. So do they get notified that you've injected ARIA attributes? -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] JavaScript and Accessibility
Anthony Ziebell wrote: ARIA looks good, looking forward to it getting out of draft status. I wouldn't be waiting for ARIA to get out of draft before using it :) It has pretty good support in browsers already so get stuck in. And because essentially all you are doing with ARIA is adding attributes to tags, the worst that can happen is your pages no longer validate - but who cares if you are making them more accessible? -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Google chrome...
Nancy Gill wrote: I can't figure out why it has to load the process three times in order to run. the google explanation: http://blogoscoped.com/google-chrome/3 -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] input type image
Taco Fleur wrote: I have a question in regards to styling a submit button. I have the following HTML input name=doSearch type=image id=btnGo value=GO src=/certainedge/_resource/generic/image/btn_go.jpg alt=GO Would it be acceptable to just use a input of type submit and leave the value empty? you could use: button type='submitspanSubmit/span/button then shift the span off the page and style the button with a sprite - this gets around having an empty value -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Link Help please
Hayden's Harness Attachment wrote: I am rebuilding a web site and have the following code in it. link rel=stylesheet type=text/css media=screen href(layout.css) / link rel=stylesheet type=text/css media=screen title=Default font size href(?php echo (!$sitestyle)?'layout':$sitestyle ?.css / link rel=alternate stylesheet type=text/css media=screen title=larger Font size href(layout_large.css) / What am I doing wrong? The web site will not use the layout.css file. The default directory is http://www.choroideremia.org/new/. try href= not href() -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] WCAG 2 implementation site
Rick Lecoat wrote: I recall reading somewhere that 'accesskey' is often considered more hindrance than benefit because there are no standardised keys for specific functions and it inevitably ends up conflicting with regular browser shortcuts that keyboard users or screenreader users are likely to wish to utilise. thats my understanding too. Firstly, you have to communicate to the user what the access keys are for which there are no clear guidelines I know of, and secondly, whats to say your choice of keys doesn't conflict with existing ones the user has set? The only way i see access keys becoming useful is if user agent vendors agree on and implement some kind of name-spacing scheme for author defined keys to prevent conflicts -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [WSG] Styling forms
Joe Ortenzi wrote: Perhaps Chris But standards people are interested in following standards, not what others may do. We are meant to be leaders, not followers. I also know some people who still want tabled layouts running in Mambo. That doesn't mean their options are either standards compliant nor sensible. what i really meant was, I can't see why people would use lists for forms and I don't know why they have started doing so. I was just offering one possible reason why they have. There's nothing stopping us from: id =form element_1 id =form element_2 id =form element_3 if we need to order elements. Or have I missed something? yes, you can do it that way. I myself tried to implement a drag and drop on table rows which essentially worked quite well but messed up inexplicably at times in certain browsers and therefore wasn't an acceptable solution. And it took some time to code, so what I'm saying is, it's easier in a case like that to implement as a list if possible and use a pre-written javascript library that easily adds drag and drop to lists in a few lines of code. Therefore, you start using markup based on pre-written libraries and not on your natural choice. Hence, maybe thats where this using lists in forms has come from? -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Styling forms
Michael Horowitz wrote: I've been looking at styling forms and I'm seeing some people mark them up as ordered lists and other using paragraphs. What are the arguments for the different markup types. from what I can see the reason lists have come into use in forms has a lot to do with javascript libraries that have re-ordering of elements by drag and drop that tend to work mainly on lists. Therefore lists are useful to wrap form elements if you are creating form building software so the form elements can be easily reordered by non-technical users. -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [WSG] Styling forms
Joe Ortenzi wrote: I would have thought so. Isn't that what the id attribute is used for? Something for JavaScript to reference? Chris Knowles wrote: CK from what I can see the reason lists have come into use in forms has a CK lot to do with javascript libraries that have re-ordering of elements by CK drag and drop that tend to work mainly on lists. Therefore lists are CK useful to wrap form elements if you are creating form building software CK so the form elements can be easily reordered by non-technical users. I suppose that form elements can be easily reordered even if form elements are not LI-wrapped. Can't they? yes, but my point was that a lot of js libraries base drag and drop re-ordering of elements around list elements and not other elements. And I have noticed a lot of form building services use lists to markup forms because they require drag and drop re-ordering of form elements. So I'm suggesting they are only using list elements because they can add drag and drop easily by using an external library that supports it, not because they think lists are necessarily a good markup choice. -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy
Thomas Thomassen wrote: You don't have to modify every single HTML you publish. You can set the HTTP header for HTML files on your server and off you go. What I've yet to hear from people who don't like the solution is a realistic alternative. Letting the sites break is not an alternative. heres an alternative, instead of letting the sites break, add a meta tag to them to fix them to an older browser version. You don't have to modify every single HTML you publish. You can set the HTTP header for HTML files on your server and off you go. It seems that what is so quick and simple for one group of people to do is somehow a huge task for the other group? -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy
Chris Broadfoot wrote: I personally think it's great. Think of the time you save by not having to debug IE. why won't we have to debug IE? We'll still have to make our sites work in IE7 and IE6 for quite some time. I don't see how opting-in to standards by adding a meta tag does anything for me or anyone else. Except for Microsoft of course, by allowing them to do the right thing at last and create a decent browser while at the same time not doing the right thing and ignoring the mess they created. -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy
Chris Broadfoot wrote: Chris Knowles wrote: I don't see how opting-in to standards by adding a meta tag does anything for me or anyone else. Except for Microsoft of course, by allowing them to do the right thing at last and create a decent browser while at the same time not doing the right thing and ignoring the mess they created. I don't think they're ignoring the mess they created at all.. Is adding a meta tag really too much work to provide your users/visitors the viewing experience they should have? Yeah actually I agree, they're not ignoring the mess. Just actively covering it up by enlisting yours and my support. My users/visitors should get the right viewing experience by default, not by having to opt-in. On the contrary, if you wish your users/visitors to NOT get the right viewing experience, is opting-out by adding a meta tag really too much work? -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy
Christian Snodgrass wrote: The biggest problem is the fact that if they don't have it be the opt-in option, that any older sites that used all of the hacks that made it work in IE6 and IE7 won't work in IE8. That probably includes even a lot of your own sites. Beyond that (since they could just make it ignore those types of hacks which wouldn't be difficult), is pages even older, and especially those web-based applications that relied on those hacks. It's the lesser of two evils, but it's still a huge pain. If you have a web-based application that will break in IE8, then whats so wrong with adding an HTTP header or a meta tag to say 'use IE7' ? -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy
Chris Broadfoot wrote: Too much work for those that aren't in the know. but not too much work for you and me? What I think it really means is that those not in the know would have to be told - and that could damage reputations! (which can hurt revenues) I'd argue that it's one of the tenets of good web development that we embrace forwards compatibility and not backwards compatibility. I think what they are doing flies in the face of this. -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Usability for downloading documents
Tony wrote: Should we be making this decision for the user though? If, by default, PDFs open within the browser, then won't we be changing their user experience by forcing them to open/save? Yes, I think we should make this decision. It's in the users best interests IMO. And by doing this maybe we can make that the new default (if there is one as others suggest). By not directly opening a resource in the browser, you delegate the downloading to the application assigned to it by the OS, which is separate to the browser. That way you avoid freezing your browser if it's a large resource and takes a while to download or if it's a slow connection, or potentially crashing your browser if it freezes and you start hitting the back button etc in an attempt to undo your action. -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Where did I come from?
Sarah Peeke wrote: Hi Martin and others, On 19/1/08 1:45 AM, Martin Heiden wrote: 2. HTTP-Header Referrer - may be supressed by proxies/firewalls or the user You can access it via (PHP|Java|ASP|...) or by JS document.referrer Just out of interest, what happens when HTTP-Header Referrer is suppressed? Does the page remain unchanged, is there a 404, or some other error? Sarah, Referer is just one HTTP header - it is separate from response codes (200, 404 etc) and other headers. No error is thrown if it's not present so content is passed on as normal. But because HTTP headers can be changed along the response chain from server to client they can't be relied upon. -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Where did I come from?
Chris Knowles wrote: Sarah Peeke wrote: Hi Martin and others, On 19/1/08 1:45 AM, Martin Heiden wrote: 2. HTTP-Header Referrer - may be supressed by proxies/firewalls or the user You can access it via (PHP|Java|ASP|...) or by JS document.referrer Just out of interest, what happens when HTTP-Header Referrer is suppressed? Does the page remain unchanged, is there a 404, or some other error? Sarah, Referer is just one HTTP header - it is separate from response codes (200, 404 etc) and other headers. No error is thrown if it's not present so content is passed on as normal. But because HTTP headers can be changed along the response chain from server to client they can't be relied upon. actually, I should have said changed along the request/response chain between server and client. -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] semantic list with explanations
David Hucklesby wrote: On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 18:13:13 +1100, Chris Knowles wrote: because thats a different issue. Its an issue of the user not upgrading to software thats available and thats better. ... Just one niggle here. The user might well be using a computer at work, school, a library, or an Internet café. What chance do these millions have of upgrading? It *is* possible to conform to web standards *and* to write code that is accessible to a wide audience, as a great deal of Thierry's writing makes abundantly clear. As an example, I work for a school district that still inflicts Netscape 4 on its children. A clean, semantically marked-up plain HTML page with little or no styling should work fine for them, I hope. I'm not sure why you're quoting me out of context like this? I wasn't suggesting writing non-standards conforming, inaccessible code. And I wasn't suggesting internet cafe customers or the schoolchildren you speak of could upgrade their browsers. But the internet cafe and the school could, but choose not to. Whereas the screen reader user with up to date software that lacks certain support can't upgrade. Therefore, those two groups are different, not the same as was suggested, which was the only point I was making with that particular quote. -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] semantic list with explanations
Thierry Koblentz wrote: Because like I said, following this logic why not using table markup to give users of other UAs (old visual browsers like IE 5 Mac, NN6, etc) a better experience too? Why just SR users? because thats a different issue. Its an issue of the user not upgrading to software thats available and thats better. The issue we speak of is the user unable to do anything about the situation themselves because there is no better software, so we should look after them if we can. User not upgrading to software that's available and that's better. Do you think it's that simple? no i don't Believe me, many people do not have that choice. I know. But someone does. If i own a business and make my staff use IE6 then thats my choice because theres something better out there - my staff can't do anything about it but i can. Which is different to screen reader users who have up to date software that lacks some features. They have no choice to upgrade. Therefore they are a different group to the users of the other UA's you mention. Therefore, it doesn't follow that it's using the same logic if we use tables like you suggest. Although i applaud your commitment, I feel your approach is very academic in nature. As someone who mostly earns their living by producing websites for businesses, I feel that it's my job to do whatever delivers the best user experience for the people who are the end users of the site. And, although I firmly believe in adhering to standards (why would I be here otherwise?), if that means using heading and paragraph tags instead of dl's then so be it. And I don't think it's right to use these client websites as a means to make a stand against user agent vendors if it means sacrificing any of that usability. -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] semantic list with explanations
Tim MacKay wrote: Hello all, My first guess would be an ordered list but the definitions underneath don’t really allow for it. Why? A definition list doesn’t seem very appropriate either because of the wordiness of the explanations; to me a true definition list would only be a few words. I don't think theres any rules about the length of definitions? If the list has a specific order, as you've shown, then I would say use an ordered list, if not a definition list -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] semantic list with explanations
Steve Green wrote: I think that definition lists would be appropriate semantically but in the real world I don't know of any user agent that does anything useful with a definition list or any user group that derives any benefit from them. Certainly they make no sense when read with a screen reader because you cannot differentiate one list item from the next. I would therefore use heading and paragraphs. As ever, your decision depends on your motivation. If you care only about semantic purity and don't care about the user experience, go ahead and use a definition list. If you do care about the user experience, use headings. or if it has a specific order, use headings and paragraphs inside an ordered list -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] semantic list with explanations
Thierry Koblentz wrote: Isn't the responsibility of screen reader manufacturers to treat DLs for what they are? Following this logic, we should be using basic table markup for layout to give people using old visual browsers a better experience. If we cheat with the markup to please user agents what's the incentive for SR manufacturers to take care of the problem? If I hear you right, you're saying we should write code that may disadvantage our users in the hope that it will influence how screen reader manufacturers build their software? I would have thought take care of your users first and foremost and then lobby the vendors is a better approach. -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] semantic list with explanations
Thierry Koblentz wrote: No, what I'm saying is that we should write semantic markup and hope that SR manufacturers fix their product asap. JAWS, to name one product, is a very expensive software. Freedomscientific should take care of its customers, it is not to the authors to lower the quality of their documents to give SR users a better experience. but I would call them your customers first, JAWS customers second - if you can make their life easier, do it, then lobby the vendor and even notify the JAWS user of the issue so they can too Because like I said, following this logic why not using table markup to give users of other UAs (old visual browsers like IE 5 Mac, NN6, etc) a better experience too? Why just SR users? because thats a different issue. Its an issue of the user not upgrading to software thats available and thats better. The issue we speak of is the user unable to do anything about the situation themselves because there is no better software, so we should look after them if we can. We have seen the same issue with acronym and abbr. Most authors are using acronym *instead* of abbr for the only reason that IE is ABBR-challenged, *not* because acronym is the proper element to use. sure, but IE is challenged in many areas so there are many ways we do things so they work in IE to make sure the end user is looked after. Are you saying we should not use any workarounds in the hope Microsoft will fix IE? I would have thought take care of your users first and foremost and then lobby the vendors is a better approach. May be a better approach would be to use something like this: http://tjkdesign.com/articles/best_practice/IamAScreenReaderUser.asp It takes care of the issue without cheating with the markup. thats true and that solution is fine, but looking at the code, it seems to me you've gone to a hell of a lot of trouble - personally I would have just used different markup. But seeing as you've already written it, then it's a good solution. -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Behavior Effecting Presentation or Structure - Precedence?
Frank Palinkas wrote: Am I correct in thinking that behavior should target structure first, and if necessary, presentation second? Frank, when you have a choice I don't think it matters which one you choose. But this raises another question I'd like to ask...take these situations: a) the user agent has Javascript that doesn't support the DOM (but has CSS enabled) b) the user agent is Javascript enabled and not CSS enabled how common is a) (maybe not on the desktop but what about other devices?) and does b) actually exist out there? If so, then I'm not sure there's ever really a choice. e.g. in your example you would need to use both methods to cover a) and b): a) would need you to set the style to display: none and b) would need you to try and remove the node -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Behavior Effecting Presentation or Structure - Precedence?
Frank Palinkas wrote:
function remove()
{
if (remove)
{
var div = document.getElementById(remove);
div.parentNode.removeChild(div);
}
else
{
document.getElementById(remove).style.display = none;
}
}
Frank,
try this...
if (typeof document.removeChild != undefined) {
var div = document.getElementById(remove);
div.parentNode.removeChild(div);
} else {
document.getElementById(remove).style.display = none;
}
if you're doing a lot of checking throughout your code though set a
global flag...
var DOM = document.getElementById ? true : false;
and then...
if (DOM) {
...
}
email me direct if you want to discuss as it's probably off topic by now.
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Re: [WSG] Lists CSS
Dean Matthews wrote:
What is the method for controlling the amount of indent (specifically,
reducing it) in a list?
Dean,
most likely margins and padding are all you need to take care of
one method is to remove all margins and padding from all lists like:
ol, ul, li {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
}
then add back in the required amounts
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Re: [WSG] Preventing copying of text from web page.
Nick Roper wrote: We have been asked by a client whether it is possible to any extent to prevent/deter users from copying content from a particular web page. The best solution I can think of is to implement a policy to cover that content. Either get the user to sign a non-disclosure agreement or set this up electronically with a screen that has a check box to say the user agrees to the non-disclousre policy before proceeding to view the content - maybe the first time they log in. This way if they breach it you have some legal recourse (maybe?). But importantly, they are made aware of the seriousness regarding the use of the information and the consequences of breaching the trust put in them. You could add some javascript to popup some reminders on certain keyboard actions etc that some users will see and some won't - I guess it reminds them of the situation. And maybe add a small disclaimer to the bottom of every page stating the terms conditions. -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Preserve whitespace
Simon Cockayne wrote: This is *not* a presentation/layout issue. from this i gather you mean it doesn't matter how it appears on screen to the person viewing it - in other words it doesn't matter whether it visually has any indent or not. In which case you can ignore pre, nbsp, css as they are all to do with presentation/layout I have a field that contains leading blanks (space) characters that the user tells me has semantic meaning that they wish to preserve. as its not a presentation issue then presumably it must be a programmatic one whereby the HTML hasn't reached it's end use when it gets displayed in the browser. From there I assume it will be further accessed via the DOM or by scraping or something, where the amount of whitespace at the beginning of the content gives meaning to it? If all the above is correct, then I don't see why you need to do anything other than generate the HTML with the right amount of space in it like: tdcontent/td the browser will only display one of the spaces in the above but they will still remain in the source - they won't be stripped out at any stage or have I misunderstood your question? -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Input tag - closing tag optional?
David Hucklesby wrote: Trying to help a friend with their form markup, I suggested they look up the W3C specifications. Their question was does the input tag require a closing /input. I told them categorically no but was embarrassed to see this in the W3C specs[1]: !ELEMENT INPUT - O EMPTY -- form control -- Now, I read that as closing tag optional. So I am wrong. Or am I? Hi David, there's no closing tag input / is XHTML input is HTML -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Idiot's guide to JavaScript
Rob Mason wrote: I am looking for a really basic, plain English guide to JavaScript. I highly rate this book - easy to read and understand: http://www.quirksmode.org/book/ -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Testing emails for Outlook 2007
Tim Palac wrote: Paul, You might also check out Campaign Monitor - they have a new service where, for 10 bucks, they'll show you where your email fails to pass spam filters and also gives you screenshots of what it looks like in all the various email programs including Outlook 2007. Enjoy! I was going to suggest the same - and they also have free templates that are already tested: http://www.campaignmonitor.com/resources/templates.aspx -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Styling option [Forms]
James Jeffery wrote: I have a select box that has a greater width and hight then the standard size. I am trying to center the default option that displays in the select box. I have tried padding: xem 0; and it centers the options when the list is displayed, but the default option does not change. Basically i want to center (vertically) the default option in a select box. Hi James you can get varying results by setting text-align: center on the select itself and on the option elements but not in IE - I don't think theres any way to control it in IE at all. -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] z-index problem with dropdown menu
John Faulds wrote: http://www.tyssendesign.com.au/sites/evolved/sax/ I can't figure out why the dropdowns fall behind the content below them. seems to me like the dropdowns need a firm hand - try: http://www.saxleather.com.au/index.php?page=homesubrange=crops Can anybody see what I'm obviously missing? :? I can see this but I'm not sure if you're obviously missing it or not: http://www.saxleather.com.au/index.php?page=homesubrange=nipple%20clamps but I can also see that it's a site that not everyone on the list may appreciate ;) -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] z-index problem with dropdown menu
John Faulds wrote: http://www.tyssendesign.com.au/sites/evolved/sax/ I can't figure out why the dropdowns fall behind the content below them. Can anybody see what I'm obviously missing? :? Hi John, I'd have a look at setting a z-index on #sidebar2 (I don't think you have one). Because it comes after the dropdown in the source some browsers may assume it should have a higher z-index than the dropdown so it may help to set it lower. -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Simon Cockayne wrote: Have you come across this flickering problem...is there a better way? Can I remove the DOM elements before they are displayed? Hi Simon you need this... http://dean.edwards.name/weblog/2006/06/again/ -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Chris Knowles wrote:
you need this...
http://dean.edwards.name/weblog/2006/06/again/
in fact, I incorporated this into my own library - I found the order in
which the code tests the different browsers to matter - I think if I
remember rightly I had an issue with safari on windows if the safari
test came before the IE test. Anyway, this is my slightly changed
version ...
var onDomload = function()
{
/* for Internet Explorer */
/[EMAIL PROTECTED] @*/
/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (@_win32)
return function(func)
{
document.write(script id=__ie_onload defer
src=javascript:void(0)\/script);
var script = document.getElementById(__ie_onload);
script.onreadystatechange = function() {
if (this.readyState == complete) {
func(); // call the onload handler
}
};
return;
};
/[EMAIL PROTECTED] @*/
/* for Safari */
if (/WebKit/i.test(navigator.userAgent)) { // sniff
return function(func)
{
var _timer = setInterval(function() {
if (/loaded|complete/.test(document.readyState)) {
func(); // call the onload handler
}
}, 10);
return;
};
}
/* for Mozilla/Opera9 */
if (document.addEventListener) {
return function(func)
{
document.addEventListener(DOMContentLoaded, func, false);
return;
};
}
/* for other browsers */
return function(func)
{
window.onload = func;
};
}();
then use...
onDomload(
function()
{
...
}
);
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Re: [WSG] CSS Help
Olajide Olaolorun wrote:
It doesnt work :(
I just tried it now... placed it in the default.css
On 10/23/07, Tim MacKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
#sidebar a img {border: none}
I haven't looked at your code but you mentioned it not displaying a
border on hover so presumably you need this:
#sidebar a:hover img {border: none}
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Re: [WSG] CSS Help
Chris Knowles wrote:
#sidebar a:hover img {border: none}
I had a look at your code! - try this:
#sidebar .one-image a:hover {
border: 0 !important;
}
in your code you used:
#sidebar a:hover,.blogfoot a:hover{
border:1px solid #FFF !important;
}
because tou used important! you need to use it in the override rule too
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Re: [WSG] CSS Help
Chris Knowles wrote:
Chris Knowles wrote:
#sidebar a:hover img {border: none}
I had a look at your code! - try this:
#sidebar .one-image a:hover {
border: 0 !important;
}
Olajide,
because you are resetting a border of 1px to 0 the image will probably
move so you may need to do this:
#sidebar .one-image a:hover {
border: 1px solid #000 !important;
}
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Re: [WSG] CSS Help
Chris Wilson wrote:
Contrary to everything else put forth about the 'issue', this actually
works...
that statement isn't correct because this also works:
#sidebar .one-image a:hover {
border: 1px solid #000 !important;
}
The other attempts here try to fix a problem with an extra rule, when if
done correctly you don't need it.
I don't think there is a correct way, there are just different ways, as
all solutions have their implications - e.g. your solution assumes only
links in lists require this style which is not necessarily the case - so
if other links are added outside of a list an extra rule may be required
for them
the solution I have given above may add an extra rule but it solves the
problem without tampering with the existing css - so it's not
necessarily clear which solution is better
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Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Simon Cockayne wrote:
Hi Chris,
I'd like bother browser to behave the same.
I can se select() ot maybe change the value of the field to be .
But...the HTML is generated...which means a program change...whereas
the javascript is handcoded...so that is the easier change...that's
all.
Hi Simon
ok, so I take it your problem is that the field is being generated on
the server and inserting unwanted space in the value which then causes
this issue, so ideally you need to remove the whitespace from the value?
If thats the case then really the server side should be changed to not
do it in the first place.
If thats not possible then just use javascript to set the value to an
empty string:
document.getElementById('form1').fld1.value =
If you want the whitespace in there for some reason but want the cursor
in the same place in both browsers then thats a different matter. Maybe
you could clarify this?
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Re: [WSG] Encoded mailto links
Taking a slightly different approach, any bot visiting your site knows your domain name so at that point they don't need to find any addresses to send to or from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Also, they'll likely assume that things like [EMAIL PROTECTED] exist without you ever publishing an address so obviously what we are trying to protect here are bots discovering actual mailbox addresses. Therefore, never use actual email addresses and only ever one or 2 generic addresses on a website. Use something like a href='mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]'email us/a and if it starts to get spammed, change it to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and bounce [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you then needed a few different addresses on a site that appeared across multiple pages, you could have a central config file on the server that mapped addresses like: marketing = [EMAIL PROTECTED] sales = [EMAIL PROTECTED] then when one of these starts getting spam, change it. It's only good for mailto links though and doesn't solve the problem of publishing an address for people to save to their address books. It also means when you click a mailto link the address in the message may look strange to the user. I guess the other thing is if a user saves the address and reuses it later it may bounce. Anyway, just an idea to try and tackle the issue differently. -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Encoded mailto links
Andrew Maben wrote: On Oct 18, 2007, at 4:19 PM, Dejan Kozina wrote: Anybody (Mac Linux browsers...) wants to take a ride? The thing is up there at http://www.kozina.com/mailtest/ . Let us know of your results. worked for me: MacOS 10.4.9/Safari 2.0.4 Andrew I noticed this page also uses entity encoding. This is a solution I have used myself but the more I think about it the more I realise realise how ineffective it is really. take the following PHP code: // some page fetching function $html = fetchPage($url); // convert any entites in the page to plain text $html = html_entity_decode($html); now $html contains plain email addresses - with one line of code surely any harvester performs this operation first? -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Encoded mailto links
Andrew Maben wrote: On Oct 18, 2007, at 4:19 PM, Dejan Kozina wrote: Anybody (Mac Linux browsers...) wants to take a ride? The thing is up there at http://www.kozina.com/mailtest/ . Let us know of your results. worked for me: MacOS 10.4.9/Safari 2.0.4 Not mac or linux but... win xp, firefox 2, thunderbird 2 opens 2 mail messages, both with the correct email address redirects to this url: http://www.kozina.com/mailtest/example/com/me with this content: Found The document has moved here. I tried setting this up myself on win xp, apache 2.2 and fiddled a lot with the rewrite rules and i got mixed results at best. As far as I'm concerned it's too unreliable to use. Plus you're still putting the email address in the source code albeit a modified version. If this became a popular way to handle mailtos a harvester is sure to be written to pattern match http://.../com/... or http://.../com/au/... or whatever at some stage and attempt to construct an email address from it. -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] introducing a prompt to download or open a pdf
Nick Fitzsimons wrote:
Word boundaries aren't right either; for exmple, they will match a
hyphen, so matching on some-thing will match some-thing-else. As per the
HTML spec, class names are space-separated, so you need to match on
spaces and the beginning or end of the string.
of course, class names are separated by whitespace so hopefully this is
it...
function setNewWindowLinks(className)
{
var tags = document.getElementsByTagName('a');
var re = new RegExp('\\s' + className + '\\s');
if (tags.length 0) {
for (var i = 0; i tags.length; i++) {
if (tags[i].className.search(re) != -1) {
tags[i].onclick = function()
{
window.open(this.href, '_blank');
return false;
}
}
}
}
}
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Re: [WSG] Encoded mailto links
Rick Lecoat wrote:
can anyone tell me what is the best accessible way (if any) of encoding
a mailto: link? I want to make the email addresses on a site usable to
screen reader users, but don't want them harvested by spambots.
Javascripted solutions seem like they would create a headache for screen
readers, and any plain text equivalent presented in the name of
accessibility would simply be harvested instead. And I prefer to avoid
jscript if I can anyway.
I too am interested to know what others are doing. Javascript seems the
best way because you can keep the code to generate and insert a mailto
external to the html file but you have to cover the problem where
javascript can't be used.
I have a function I wrote in PHP that converts a string of characters to
their ASCII values and this works ok but is still in the html code so
maybe harvesters look for the ASCII value of the @ symbol and find
addresses still?
function htmlEncode($str)
{
$encoded = ;
for ($i = 0; $i strlen($str); $i++) {
$encoded .= #.ord($str[$i]).;;
}
return $encoded;
}
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Re: [WSG] Encoded mailto links
Rick Lecoat Is there a way out what seems, to my inexperienced eyes, like a catch-22 situation? Patrick Lauke wrote: Fix your spam issues at the mail server + mail client end, not at the web page end, would be my advice. This is good advice and raises the question of whether theres any real need or point in encoding email addresses on web pages at all. All anyone needs is a domain name and they can send mail to (or from) a dictionary of names @domain.name anyway. I guess that when clients want their own email addresses on pages and not just info@ or something generic there is maybe argument for encoding. As for screen readers, are html entities a problem? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Encoded mailto links
Rick Lecoat wrote: I'm surprised that there isn't a workaround -- only because almost everything else that I thought would be impossible some clever person has found a way to do. Well I guess now I really think about it you can't solve it as you could append an email address to the DOM from an obfuscated javascript function and that would likely solve the problem but it's not an accessible solution. For screen readers you need to have the email address in the HTML code and whether it's encoded or not it's accessible to harvesters. Therefore theres no solution, so as Patrick said, Fix your spam issues at the mail server + mail client end -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] introducing a prompt to download or open a pdf
Nick Fitzsimons wrote:
On 17 Oct 2007, at 13:47, Chris Knowles wrote:
Nick Fitzsimons wrote:
Word boundaries aren't right either; for exmple, they will match a
hyphen, so matching on some-thing will match some-thing-else. As per the
HTML spec, class names are space-separated, so you need to match on
spaces and the beginning or end of the string.
of course, class names are separated by whitespace so hopefully this is
it...
var re = new RegExp('\\s' + className + '\\s');
Nope, that won't match thing to thing, only to thing - you need
to check for the start or end of the string as well as a space :-)
HTH,
Nick.
sorry Nick, as stated in your previous post, whitespace and end of lines.
This should cover the 4 possiblities:
thing
thing
thing
thing
var re = new RegExp((^|\\s) + className + (\\s|$))
or better still, use this get elements by class function you mentioned
then process the elements:
http://www.robertnyman.com/2005/11/07/the-ultimate-getelementsbyclassname/
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Re: [WSG] introducing a prompt to download or open a pdf
Rather than open a pdf in a browser window albeit the same window or a
popup, I prefer that a pdf is either saved to the filesystem or opened
by a program external to the browser like Acrobat reader. This behaviour
depends on what headers the webserver responds with.
In php you can serve a file with:
header(Content-type: application/pdf);
header(Content-Disposition: attachment);
readfile('test.pdf');
this will usually cause the browser to ask whether to save to disk or
select a program to open the file with.
If you use the following it will load the pdf viewer into the browser
window:
header(Content-type: application/pdf);
header(Content-Disposition: inline);
readfile('test.pdf');
So I'd recommend a link with a pdf icon and the file size and then set
the headers as in the first example
Chris Knowles
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Re: [WSG] introducing a prompt to download or open a pdf
John Horner wrote: Maybe it's just me, but this: where the link would be download.php?filename=mypdftype=pdf looks terribly insecure to me -- I'm allowed to put whatever I want into the URL until I find something interesting? I think I'd start with download.php?filename=../htpasswdtype= It's not just you! - Very insecure - breaks all the rules Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] introducing a prompt to download or open a pdf
John Horner wrote:
Maybe it's just me, but this:
--
$type = $_GET['type'];
$fileName = $_GET['filename'] . . . $type;
$mimeType = application/$type;
if (strpos($_SERVER['HTTP_USER_AGENT'], 'MSIE 5') or
strpos($_SERVER['HTTP_USER_AGENT'], 'Opera 7')) $mimeType =
'application/x-download';
header(content-disposition: attachment; filename =
\$fileName\);
header(content-type: {$mimeType});
readfile($fileName);
where the link would be download.php?filename=mypdftype=pdf
I guess to be fair, the author may have simplified the code and not
detailed the step of validating the input and ensuring it maps to a
legitimate resource. However, I guess the point is that there may be
people on this list with limited server side knowledge who would cut and
paste something like this, so we should all be careful when submitting code.
Chris Knowles
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Re: [WSG] introducing a prompt to download or open a pdf
Paul Minty wrote:
I'd like to see a microformat for this, and an external javascript, so
that people who author these links without the aid of server side
scripting can develop this user experience easily. Anyone seen anything
like that?
Cheers
Paul
heres a generic javascript function I wrote to open links in a new
window based on class name. It's only a partial solution to the pdf
issue but maybe someone will find it useful anyway.
just call it on dom load or window load with the class name you want to use:
setNewWindowLinks('new-win');
It'll hijack any 'a' tags with the class name you use and make them open
in a popup. If no javascript enabled then it'll just go to that link.
The 'a' tag can have multiple class names as well and it'll still work.
function setNewWindowLinks(className)
{
var tags = document.getElementsByTagName('a');
var re = new RegExp(className);
if (tags.length 0) {
for (var i = 0; i tags.length; i++) {
if (tags[i].className.search(re) != -1) {
tags[i].onclick = function()
{
window.open(this.href, '_blank');
return false;
}
}
}
}
}
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Re: [WSG] introducing a prompt to download or open a pdf
Kit Grose wrote:
Just a note:
Your function doesn't currently use the RegExp function for anything
useful (you might as well use indexOf). RegExp is the right way to do
it, though, so you can enforce word boundaries to match complete
classNames only (if I want all a.pop to be new window links, I wouldn't
want a.popcorn to turn into a popup window).
See http://snook.ca/archives/javascript/your_favourite_1/ for more info
(specifically the update) on how to enforce word boundaries but allow
for multiple classnames.
good point - here it is modified to use word boundaries:
function setNewWindowLinks(className)
{
var tags = document.getElementsByTagName('a');
var re = new RegExp('\\b' + className + '\\b');
if (tags.length 0) {
for (var i = 0; i tags.length; i++) {
if (tags[i].className.search(re) != -1) {
tags[i].onclick = function()
{
window.open(this.href, '_blank');
return false;
}
}
}
}
}
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Re: [WSG] IE extra space; background not showing up; odd links
For validation I suggest download the web developer extension for Firefox from... https://addons.update.mozilla.org/extensions/showlist.php?application=firefoxcategory=Developer%20Toolsnumpg=10pageid=3 It's a toolbar you can validate the current page with, disable style sheets and javascript and much more - v.cool Most likely, the pages were checked with the W3C Validator. The Validator checks HTML documents for conformance to W3C HTML and XHTML Recommendations and other HTML standards. http://validator.w3.org/ http://www.amyarver.com/home.shtml ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] best practice?
This works well...
body {
text-align: center;
}
#container {
margin: 0 auto;
text-align: left;
}
But so does this...
#container {
position: absolute;
top: 0;
left: 50%;
width: 60em;
margin-left: 0 0 0 -30em;
}
--
Chris Knowles
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