RE: [WSG] Google 'Alexander Calder' theme
Looking at it in Chrome it's two canvas elements (one for the animation, one for the shadow) with a noscript fallback: canvas id=calder width=400 height=300 style=margin-left: -48px; z-index: 0; cursor: move; /canvas canvas id=calder_shadows width=400 height=300 style=margin-left:-48px;position:relative;top:-140px;z-index:-5/canvas noscriptamp;lt;a href=/search?q=Alexander+Calderamp;amp;ct=calder11amp;amp;oi=ddle title=Alexander Calderamp;amp;#39;s 113th Birthday. Courtesy of Calder Foundation / ARS, NY.amp;gt;amp;lt;img id=hplogo src=/logos/2011/calder11.png alt=Alexander Calderamp;amp;#39;s 113th Birthday. Courtesy of Calder Foundation / ARS, NY.amp;gt;amp;lt;/aamp;gt;/noscript Trying to decipher the JavaScript that runs this is pretty hard, though... Chris -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of grant_malcolm_bai...@westnet.com.au Sent: 22 July 2011 07:16 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Google 'Alexander Calder' theme Hello, Today's Google home page theme seems to be a very good example of progressive enhancement. The mobile graphic is non-interactive in IE7 but looks fine. In Chrome, however, the graphic swings about in response to mouse movements (as does its shadow, not present for IE7). Could anyone advise: (i) what technologies were used for this (canvas, etc.), and (ii) whether it is possible to save a working copy of the page locally in order to study its function (I've never had luck doing this with Google themes). Thank you and regards, Grant Bailey *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] XHTML or HTML?
From: cat soul Sent: 10 November 2010 23:32 Great! Most everyone else is saying HTML5 is 10 years off and not to code for it, not to worry about it until then. HTML5 as a finished, published spec may be 10 years off, but there are plenty of HTML5 features you can use right now with some careful handling of older (IE) browsers. The future is already among us. In fact, this is HTML5-style - !doctype html - but will work fine in all browsers (as far as I know). For more information check out: http://html5doctor.com/how-to-use-html5-in-your-client-work-right-now/ http://diveintohtml5.org/ http://www.html5rocks.com/ And there's Andy Clarke's new book Hardboiled Web Design which deals with HTML5 and more: http://hardboiledwebdesign.com/ So is HTML5 ready, as far as http://ishtml5readyyet.com/ sees it isn't the same as can I use parts of this spec yet? Chris This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] XHTML or HTML?
From: David Dorward Sent: 11 November 2010 10:30 On 11 Nov 2010, at 09:18, Chris Taylor wrote: In fact, this is HTML5-style - !doctype html - but will work fine in all browsers (as far as I know). When you come to perform basic QA using a validator, on the other hand, you get very different results. Agreed, and it is a problem, but how much of that problem is validators not being updated? To be honest, if that's the only error I get from a validator I'd feel I was doing a decent job. The crux is, as it has always been, what actually happens in browsers themselves. Chris This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] IE6 Finally Nearing Extinction [STATS]
I have stats from a few websites which show a similar picture: Financial services site (5800 visitors over the last couple of months): Internet Explorer 80.12% Firefox9.52% Safari 5.71% Chrome 3.52% Mozilla0.34% Opera 0.29% And for IE: 8.060.43% 7.027.03% 6.012.55% An e-commerce site (just over 3000 visitors in the last month): Internet Explorer 67.42% Firefox20.42% Safari 5.22% Chrome 4.50% Opera 1.44% For which IE: 8.060.58% 7.024.95% 6.014.47% However a small blogging site (4000 visitors over the last month) shows very different results: Firefox49.42% Internet Explorer 21.60% Chrome 10.66% Safari 7.51% Opera 6.96% Mozilla3.76% Of which IE: 8.059.04% 7.026.37% 6.014.59% So I'd say for most mainstream commercial sites, IE6 is definitely still a consideration. Chris This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Using Fonts
Marvin, Sitepoint have a good article on font stacks which I've found to be a very easy way of making text look quite a bit better: http://www.sitepoint.com/article/eight-definitive-font-stacks/ Regards Chris -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Marvin Hunkin Sent: 12 September 2009 13:51 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Using Fonts hi. creating a asp dot net site in visual web developer express 2008. now, to look visually appealing , as well as functional. instead of just having the boring times new roman fonts. what fonts would you suggest i should use for the site. what is the most common fonts, that should be used. if any one has got any low vision at all. what would look really appealing on a page. for fonts. for all elements and controls on my pages i am creating with a friend. cheers Marvin. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] hr / or CSS3 Border Background
Hi, tee said: However, seeing that HTML 5 has given hr tag a new purpose: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#the-hr-element http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#flow-content-0 quote: The hr element represents a paragraph-level thematic break, e.g. a scene change in a story, or a transition to another topic within a section of a reference book. In HTML5 doesn't the section element do that job? To be honest, I've always felt hr seems a strange element to use in any circumstance. Chris This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] RE: Using background images on submit buttons
On Behalf Of Rachel Radford Sent: 24 June 2009 14:51 Subject: RE: [WSG] RE: Using background images on submit buttons I fear the only proper solution while using .Net is for the HTML that is produced to change! Rachel, have you had a look at the CSS control adapters (http://www.asp.net/CssAdapters/)? I'm not sure which controls are in there, but that seems to be the most popular way to produce (more) valid HTML from .Net. Chris This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] How to hide/show form questions with javascript while meeting WCAG 2?
Toggling the visibility of elements while respecting accessibility is one of the features of Performer (http://performerjs.org). A new site is currently in the works with much better documentation, but if you’re interested in using this drop me a line off-list and I’ll be glad to help. Chris From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of littler...@internode.on.net Sent: 27 January 2009 05:19 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] How to hide/show form questions with javascript while meeting WCAG 2? Hi everyone, I am starting to learn javascript/jquery and would like to use it to hide questions on a form dependant on the answer to another question. I have seen plenty of working examples but am concerned that they wouldn't be accessible or comply with WCAG 2.0. Does anyone have an example of best practice or can advise on how they deal with this issue? The websites I have been looking at include: http://www.quirksmode.org/dom/usableforms.html http://www.frinity.com/posts/css/show-hide-form-field-selecting-a-radio-button-option Thank you, ~Rachel *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** Click herehttps://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/wQw0zmjPoHdJTZGyOCrrhg== to report this email as spam. This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] JavaScript and Accessibility
From: Chris Knowles
I wouldn't be waiting for ARIA to get out of draft before using it :) It
has pretty good support in browsers already so get stuck in. And because
essentially all you are doing with ARIA is adding attributes to tags,
the worst that can happen is your pages no longer validate - but who
cares if you are making them more accessible?
I think validation is still important to ensure a consistent and future-proof
experience across browsers, but ARIA is definitely needed. So seeing as ARIA
attributes are there to offer a solution to problems introduced by JavaScript,
why don't we use JavaScript to add the ARIA attributes. Using a similar idea to
my Performer script [1] we could add these using CSS:
p id=updates class=aria-live-politeThis content will be updated by an
AJAX-type script/p
A simple script could parse all elements in the DOM tree, and anything with the
class aria-live-polite add the attribute aria-live with a value of
polite. If this was done before any other JavaScript was run it would prepare
the page with ARIA attributes before it is needed, whilst keeping the code
validating. The resulting code in this example would be:
p id=updates class=aria-live-polite aria-live=politeThis content will
be updated by an AJAX-type script/p
Of course, elements with ARIA classes could be styled differently if required:
.aria-live-polite { border: 1px dotted #CCC; }
If JavaScript is not present or disabled, the ARIA attributes will not get
applied. But that won't be a problem, as no other JavaScript will be run anyway.
There are actually a lot of ARIA attribute variations so this idea may not
scale very well, but for simple use it may be a suitable answer to the ARIA /
validation problem.
Chris
[1] http://performerjs.org - add JavaScript features using just CSS classes and
standard attributes. New website and lots more features coming very soon. Get
in touch if you'd be interested in helping / testing.
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RE: [WSG] JavaScript and Accessibility
From: Chris Knowles yes, so you still run your code through the validator and make sure it only fails on the ARIA attributes - that way you save yourself a whole lot of trouble. I don't really understand inserting attributes with javascript just so you get a tick from the validator? Maybe I'm missing something but what benefit does that bring? And validators will catch up at some point anyway. Quite apart from the satisfaction I get from those green ticks (I loves me them green ticks), I think providing a validating page to the browser is an important part of creating a web that is accessible to all. We all know the problems that certain (ahem) browser manufacturers have with a properly-validating document, but if we have these document definitions in place we should use them. Adding ARIA attributes using JavaScript is therefore part of progressive enhancement, much like using any AJAX-type features is - or at least should be. It's not ideal, I'm not pretending for one minute it is, but that's the web world we live in. Hopefully, in the fullness of time, all these measures will become unnecessary and we'll all bask in the warm glow of browsers that natively handle all the goodies which are being waved in front of our noses (not just ARIA, CSS3, HTML5 etc). But I'm not holding my breath for that day. Chris This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] JavaScript and Accessibility
-Original Message- From: Chris Knowles does that actually work? My understanding is that one problem ARIA addresses is that when javascript alters the DOM, assistive technologies don't necessarily get notified of the changes. So do they get notified that you've injected ARIA attributes? The thought had crossed my mind, but unfortunately I have no reliable way to test it. If anyone wants to let us know whether this idea is a goer, I'd be very grateful. Chris This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] JS patterns
From: Foskett, Mike Subject: RE: [WSG] JS patterns Solution: Instead of adding an onclick to a heading, try adding a link to the heading then put the onclick on that. Use the id of the hidden div as the link href and you're done. Best practice observed and everyone's happy. I agree entirely. There seems to be many developers discovering the joys of these JavaScript frameworks, but forgetting that we have a responsibility to use them wisely. With great power comes great responsibility, or something. I put together a little script to act as a bridge between HTML and the prototype JavaScript library called Performer [1]. It allows you to use JavaScript effects (hide and show elements, do AJAX calls, limit textbox input length etc) with nothing more than CSS classes and standard element attributes (rel and rev, mainly). It's also meant to be keyboard-accessible, but more work is needed to get that perfect (any help will be greatly appreciated). Despite this being quite an early version (currently 0.4 - please report any bugs!) I'm also trying to get a jQuery and mootools version developed. If this helps developers to use JavaScript in an accessible way then some good will come of it. Chris [1] http://performerjs.org This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Acceptable JavaScript Coding Practice?
Hi Brett,
The problem isn't this:
var whatever = document.getElementById(layer);
I's this:
onhover=namedFunction('timer')
What you're doing is mixing JavaScript in the HTML of the page. What you should
do is use a listener on your link to see when it is hovered over. This code
uses the prototype library [1] but you can do the same thing with other
libraries such as jQuery and mootools. I recommend you take a look at one of
those libraries to help you with this stuff. (Warning: I've not tested this
code!)
In the head of your page:
script type=text/javascript
// listen for the page being loaded completely
Event.observe(window, 'load', HoverListener, false);
function HoverListener()
{
// for each link with the class 'hover'
$$('a.hover').each(function(element)
{
// listen for the 'mouseover' event on this link and execute
the 'RunCode' function when it happens
Event.observe(element, 'mouseover', RunCode, false);
// also listen for the 'focus' event on this link for
keyboard-compatibility
Event.observe(element, 'focus', RunCode, false);
});
}
function RunCode(e)
{
// get the element which triggered the event
var el = Event.findElement(e, 'A');
// now do your code! In this example I'm just alert()ing the text in
the link
alert(el.innerHTML);
}
/script
You can apply the class hover to any link, it will execute the RunCode
function above when that link is hovered over (or receives focus from a
keyboard action):
a href=somepage.html class=hoverHover over this link.../a
Hope this helps,
Chris
[1] http://prototypejs.org
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RE: [WSG] Acceptable JavaScript Coding Practice?
Is not acceptable to put event handlers like onhover and onclick in an HTML page? Sorry, but I am still learning JavaScript. Not if you want to do things the Proper Way :0) The term for keeping JavaScript out of the HTML page is Unobtrusive JavaScript, and we do it for the same reasons we don't have inline (like p font=Arial) stuff. These links should help you out: http://www.onlinetools.org/articles/unobtrusivejavascript/ http://icant.co.uk/articles/seven-rules-of-unobtrusive-javascript/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtrusive_JavaScript http://adactio.com/atmedia2005/ http://www.sitepoint.com/article/unobtrusive-javascript/ Chris This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] RE: Tools or analytics to detect assistive devices
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of McLaughlin, Gail Sent: 19 November 2008 16:50 I'm wondering if anybody here knows of a way to use analytics data to help determine a good guess or idea of which users are using screen readers to access data, or having trouble with certain pages (thus making the case for doing usability and accessibility exercises)? As screenreaders work within existing browsers (normally IE) it's very hard to detect them. To detect different browsers you'd use the user agent string, but screenreaders don't have user agent strings of their own. At least that's as far as I (and a few other people [1]) am aware. Maybe one of the accessibility gurus on the list has a magic method to detect of a visitor is using a screenreader? Chris [1] http://www.accessifyforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3775 This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] RE: Accessible date picker widget
Hi, This is the one I've used with good success: http://www.frequency-decoder.com/2006/10/02/unobtrusive-date-picker-widgit-update. It has a lot of options set from the CSS classes of an input type=text element. Chris From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jens-Uwe Korff Sent: 30 October 2008 03:25 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Accessible date picker widget Hi all, I'm looking for an accessible widget that lets you select a date. It should be lightweight (or compressible), not depend on frameworks and allow for keyboard use / screenreaders. The ones I've found so far couldn't take all hurdles. Thank you! Cheers, Jens The information contained in this e-mail message and any accompanying files is or may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, dissemination, reliance, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail or any attached files is unauthorised. This e-mail is subject to copyright. No part of it should be reproduced, adapted or communicated without the written consent of the copyright owner. If you have received this e-mail in error please advise the sender immediately by return e-mail or telephone and delete all copies. Fairfax does not guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in this e-mail or attached files. Internet communications are not secure, therefore Fairfax does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message or attached files. Click here to report this email as spam. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Re: Form (layout/accessibiity)
-Original Message-
From: John Unsworth
Sent: 09 July 2008 14:37
It's a bit late of night, but if I read this right, if this section
(as it is a form, right?) is wrapped in a fieldset you can then hide
both labels and use legend to identify that's it's postcode
That's certainly an idea, but legends are notoriously difficult to style
reliably across browsers. I'd go with something similar to Thierry's solution:
HTML:
label for=PostCode1Postcode:/label
input type=text class=postcode id=PostCode1 name=PostCode1
maxlength=4 /
label for=PostCode2 class=hidesecond part of postcode:/label
input class=postcode type=text id=PostCode2 name=PostCode2
maxlength=4 /
CSS:
.hide { left: :-em; overflow: hidden; }
Chris
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RE: [WSG] Browsers and Zooming
On 3 Jul 2008, at 22:16, Al Sparber wrote: When a block of text exceeds the viewport width, that means horizontal scrolling for *each line* - a royal PITA. I kid of think you are speaking for yourself ;-) Rick Lecoat replied: Well, he's speaking for me as well. Me too. I find that incredibly annoying, and it seems to happen in Bloglines a lot. Long lines are difficult enough to read without having to scroll. Chris This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)?
Michael, What if JavaScript isn't enabled or available on my smartphone? I presume your websites are not for people accessing the web while on the move, as well as people whose preference or requirement is to use a web client without JavaScript. These standard[s] freaks you seem to think so little of *are* trying to make the web a better place for users - by levelling the playing field, making things fairer and ensuring we all stick to the same high standards. You can choose not to do that which is fine by me - my websites will gladly accept the visitors (and customers) who can't use yours. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Persson Sent: 16 June 2008 10:53 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)? The best way is a form that also has a secure SPAM code or just make a image that search engines cannot read... I believe that people that does not have Javascript working are not using internet for the purpose i produce websites for, and im sorry we cant accept all kind of users. Also users has to follow the standard where website production also is based in the clients need and NOT on web standards. Standard freaks are trying to make things better for web standards and not for the clients or visitors in general... There is a war and it will always be there until understanding from all parts are met. Michael James Leslie wrote: Why is this the best way? It means that anyone without JavaScript enabled cannot contact you. Spam is a pain, but not giving a user the basic opportunity of contacting you is a bigger problem IMO. I think mailto's and spam filters are the best way to go, as they are accessible for everyone. J *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Fuji kusaka *Sent:* 13 June 2008 05:23 *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)? Hi The best way is to encrypt the email address and make use of a js. This will avoid loads of problems specially spamming. This is simple just follow the instructions here http://jumk.de/nospam/stopspam.html Fuji On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 6:22 AM, tee [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is one of the thing I can't decide. At time, it seemed nothing wrong to have an email link (js encrypted, not mailto that shows email address nakely to Mr. Spam King), but as many people are actually using webmail, or sometimes access websites via public computer (internet cafe or library for instance), I find that having email link actually is causing usability for users. When client insists on having direct email link. What do you do so that it won't cause problem for above users? Thanks! tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Fuji kusaka *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)?
Michael said: Are you willing to work 3 days extra for each project to implement the usability / accessibility regulations in order to follow the web standard in order to create a better website that the client will not pay for or even understand what they are paying for...?? I try to quote clients for the amount of time it will take me to do a website the right way. Following the standards and implementing solutions which fit in with the regulations (in the UK I believe there are laws covering accessible websites) is always the right way. Setting your pricing to cover this would be a good move. I'm a realist as well, but I believe that you should only do things the non-standard, inaccessible, non-degradable, easy way when there's a very strong business reason to do it. Off the top of my head the only valid reason I can think of for ignoring the standards and accessibility would be when you're writing a private intranet with known client software and users. Chris This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)?
Michael, I understand where you're coming from, but your original message did not come across like that at all. Of course budgets will be cut, deadlines brought forward, other responsibilities heaped on you etc. That's the nature of business. However wherever possible standard and accessibility should be baked into sites right from the beginning. Doing that gives your clients a better solution, whether or not they understand it. And where they don't understand it, what difference does it make to them? They don't need to know what goes on under the hood, just that it works and is the best solution for the current and future state of the web. If they do ask questions show them the Seybold presentation. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Persson Sent: 16 June 2008 14:34 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)? Dear Chris, I could not said it better myself. I am alone front end developer and technical responsible for the projects we are creating in the company i work. I have tried to implement web standards, accessibility and usability for the last 2 years but sometimes I am just chopped by the shoulders because noone else have any idea of what I am talking about... Michael Chris Taylor wrote: Michael said: Are you willing to work 3 days extra for each project to implement the usability / accessibility regulations in order to follow the web standard in order to create a better website that the client will not pay for or even understand what they are paying for...?? I try to quote clients for the amount of time it will take me to do a website the right way. Following the standards and implementing solutions which fit in with the regulations (in the UK I believe there are laws covering accessible websites) is always the right way. Setting your pricing to cover this would be a good move. I'm a realist as well, but I believe that you should only do things the non-standard, inaccessible, non-degradable, easy way when there's a very strong business reason to do it. Off the top of my head the only valid reason I can think of for ignoring the standards and accessibility would be when you're writing a private intranet with known client software and users. Chris This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Website Accessability Tools
The HTML Validator for Firefox works in offline mode, as far as I’m aware: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/249 Chris From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of dwain Sent: 17 April 2008 05:11 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Website Accessability Tools marvin, here are some tools i use for accessibility and link checking. http://www.tawdis.net -- there is an offline accessibility checker here http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file/fid,6974-order,1-page,1-c,alldownloads/description.html -- online and offline link checker xenu sleuth http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/adesigner/download -- offline or online accessibility checker i have seen an offline html validator, but i can't remember where it is. hth, dwain On 4/16/08, Marvin Hunkin [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. does any one know of any good accessible off line software accessability tools, for checking broken links, that the right colour is for the element on the page, like on my site, for the headings, you have a red colour,a nd a good offline vallidator, if not connected to the internet. if any one can help, let me know and e-mail me privately off list. cheers marvin. -- Check out my home page at http://startrekcafe.stevesdomain.net/ Check out my Jaws Australia Group at http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/JawsOz/ -- Check out my home page at http://startrekcafe.stevesdomain.net/ Check out my Jaws Australia Group at http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/JawsOz/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- dwain alford The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Click herehttps://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/wQw0zmjPoHdJTZGyOCrrhg== to report this email as spam. This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Shorthand rule for border?
Here's the shorthand for what you want to do:
.someClass
{
border: 1px solid #CCC;
border-width: 1px 2px 2px 1px; /* top, right, bottom, left */
border-bottom-color: #666;
border-right-color: #666;
}
Obviously if all your borders have the same color you can forget the last 2
lines, which makes it pretty easy.
Chris
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cole Kuryakin
Sent: 17 April 2008 14:09
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Shorthand rule for border?
Hello All -
This is something that I've been wondering about for a long time - a shorthand
rule for borders.
I often find myself in a situation where I have to define a different border
size and/or color for two (or more) sides of an element so I'm always going
through the drudgery of:
.someClass
{
border-top: 1px solid #CCC;
border-left: 1px solid #CCC;
border-bottom: 2px solid #666;
border-right: 2px solid #666;
}
Boy, that gets boring (not to mention tedious)... especially if I've got to do
different rules to yield the same general effect. I've taken a look around the
web and can't find any reference to some sort of short-hand condensation for
borders (after all, we've got 'em for padding and margins, etc); and then
again, maybe I'm not putting in the right keywords.
Interested in all enlightenment and/or links.
Cole
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RE: [WSG] seo / standards question
Hi, I'd say use a list, for two reasons. Firstly you said im generating a stronglist/strong of page links, and secondly a heading should be a heading for something that comes after it in the content. So not this: h3apage name/a/h3 !-- something should be here... -- h3apage name2/a/h3 But this would be good: h3apage name/a/h3 pSome content describing page/p h3apage name2/a/h3 pSome content describing page 2/p Lists are the way to go, I think. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kevin mcmonagle Sent: 09 April 2008 14:36 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] seo / standards question hi, im generating a list of page links from my cms, its not really for a nav bar just a section of the site that has a number of related articles. im using h2 for the over all list label but am wondering what to use for the list break tags. right now im using li with the title of each page like this. h2section title/h2 ul liapage name 1/a/li liapage name 2/a/li ... /ul but im wondering if i should use h2's instead? would google give more importance to the h2s? plus it really is a list of page headings so i guess semantically it could go either way right? so either: h2section title/h2 h3apage name/a/h3 h3apage name2/a/h3 ... thanks in advance -kevin mcmonagle www.mcmonagledesign.com www.donegalimage.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Unobtrusive JavaScript (was: generate data)
Hi, I've written a small set of helper functions that will allow you to unobtrusively add JavaScript to a web page. It's built on the back off the prototype library so you'll need that as well. See the details here: http://www.stillbreathing.co.uk/projects/performer/performer.html A couple of examples. 1) If you want to create a toggling element you can do this: pa href=# class=togger rel=toggleelementToggle the visibility of the toggleelement element/a/p div class=hider id=toggleelementThis element will be toggleable (is that a word?)/div The hider class on the toggleable element will hide the element only if JS is enabled, so if it's not the element will never be hidden. Of course you can add additional classes both to the link and the toggleable element, and you can set the href attribute of the link to whatever you want. 2) Loading remote content into an element (known as AJAX) pa href=# class=loader rel=targetelement rev=targetpage.phpLoad content/a/p p id=targetelementTarget element/p When the link with class loader is clicked the element with the id targetelement will be filled with the content from the targetpage.php page. If anyone needs any more information please get in touch. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ray Leventhal Sent: 25 February 2008 20:20 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] re: generate data tee wrote: Hi, I really enjoyed reading this thread, especially the responses from Georg and Breton, and thank you Dwain for asking the question. I have heard a lot about unobtrusive js but thus far it's more like a buzzword to me because I understand no JS. Can one recommend which JS library is more accessibility user-friendly (is there such word?!). I know the jquery, mootool, prototype, Dojo, Extjs, YUI libraries, and have recently used the jquery for accordion menu and prototype for glider (sliding gallery like the one in Panic.com), but I don't know enough to settle for one that is relatively small size and unobtrusive. Everybody claims he is unobtrusive, and I have difficulty to settle down with one. Thanks! Hi tee, An interesting thread indeed. I can't recommend any JS libraries as I'm only now cutting my teeth on JS, but I can wholeheartedly recommend a book on JS which focuses on graceful degradation and manipulation of the DOM: DOM Scripting: Web Design with JavaScript and the Document Object Model by Jeremy Keith HTH, -Ray *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Unobtrusive JavaScript (was: generate data)
Good ideas Ben, thanks. I did think about that but went for the option which means the least amount of work for the developer. I don't pretend that Performer is suitable for really advanced stuff, just the basics. The reason I hook the events into the a element is because it gives the developer the opportunity to use the link as a link in the even of a non-JS user. For example: pa href=index.php?toggle= toggleelement class=togger rel=toggleelementToggle the visibility of the toggleelement element/a/p The querystring parameters in the href of this link could tell some server-side code to apply a class to the element. It's a simple example, but I'm sure you can see how this could be used to provide both a standard and enhanced interface to the user. Chris From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Dodson Sent: 26 February 2008 11:30 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Unobtrusive JavaScript (was: generate data) Hi, Although I'm a jQuery man myself, it's good to see someone actively encouraging the use of unobtrusive javascript although I would make one or two tweaks. Wouldn't it be better to add your class hooks to the p rather than to an a as at present, if the user had javascript disabled then they would have a link saying toggle that would take them to the top of the page if clicked. Even better would be to insert the a using javascript so that if you have javascript disabled you don't even get the option to toggle visibility - the item is just there. Just a thought! Cheers, Ben -- e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] w: http://www.bendodson.com/ On 26/02/2008, Chris Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I've written a small set of helper functions that will allow you to unobtrusively add JavaScript to a web page. It's built on the back off the prototype library so you'll need that as well. See the details here: http://www.stillbreathing.co.uk/projects/performer/performer.html A couple of examples. 1) If you want to create a toggling element you can do this: pa href=# class=togger rel=toggleelementToggle the visibility of the toggleelement element/a/p div class=hider id=toggleelementThis element will be toggleable (is that a word?)/div The hider class on the toggleable element will hide the element only if JS is enabled, so if it's not the element will never be hidden. Of course you can add additional classes both to the link and the toggleable element, and you can set the href attribute of the link to whatever you want. 2) Loading remote content into an element (known as AJAX) pa href=# class=loader rel=targetelement rev=targetpage.phpLoad content/a/p p id=targetelementTarget element/p When the link with class loader is clicked the element with the id targetelement will be filled with the content from the targetpage.php page. If anyone needs any more information please get in touch. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Ray Leventhal Sent: 25 February 2008 20:20 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgmailto:wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] re: generate data tee wrote: Hi, I really enjoyed reading this thread, especially the responses from Georg and Breton, and thank you Dwain for asking the question. I have heard a lot about unobtrusive js but thus far it's more like a buzzword to me because I understand no JS. Can one recommend which JS library is more accessibility user-friendly (is there such word?!). I know the jquery, mootool, prototype, Dojo, Extjs, YUI libraries, and have recently used the jquery for accordion menu and prototype for glider (sliding gallery like the one in Panic.comhttp://Panic.com), but I don't know enough to settle for one that is relatively small size and unobtrusive. Everybody claims he is unobtrusive, and I have difficulty to settle down with one. Thanks! Hi tee, An interesting thread indeed. I can't recommend any JS libraries as I'm only now cutting my teeth on JS, but I can wholeheartedly recommend a book on JS which focuses on graceful degradation and manipulation of the DOM: DOM Scripting: Web Design with JavaScript and the Document Object Model by Jeremy Keith HTH, -Ray *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.comhttp://www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED
RE: [WSG] Preventing copying of text from web page.
From: Joe Ortenzi Sent: 21 December 2007 07:32 Why not simply make people register for it? Then you have their details and if you make the registration process intelligent, they will be aware they are being tracked and more likely to behave. All sorts of benefits and if the discussion forum is inside there as well then you can even claim some web 2.0-ness as an added benefit of registration! This to me seems like a good option, and by registering someone you could then give them a doctored version of the data including unique information to tie that particular view of the data with their session. That unique ID could be in a table cell, in the title of the page, as a footer etc. If you found a copy of that data with the unique session ID anywhere you could trace it back to a date, time, IP address and registered user. Of course the problem there is that anyone with a bit of HTML skill could remove the unique ID from the page. Still, it may help to deter casual copiers. Chris This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Opera files antitrust against MS: standards one part
While I think the Opera complaint has firm ground to stand on, there's one thing in David's announcement to this group I'm unsure about. We think these actions are essential for the evolution of web standards and the open web, which Microsoft is hindering due to it's dominant market share controlling consumer choice in web browsers and trying to force web developers to adopt proprietary technologies and techniques (ie hacks, and things like Silverlight.) Why was Silverlight included? As far as I am aware it's a plug-in much like Flash, so why would it be hindering the open web? Surely web developers have a choice whether to use that plug-in, just as they have the choice to use Flash. I'm not saying the IE/web standards thing is unfounded, but the Silverlight comment raises some concerns in my mind regarding Operas aims with this complaint. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Storey Sent: 14 December 2007 09:16 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Opera files antitrust against MS: standards one part I just one to make one point about this case clear (although I'm not involved in it in any way). The complaint is manly about getting Microsoft to follow accepted web standards more closely, and isn't about money at all. I believe we (Opera) have stated that we don't want to earn any money as a result of this complaint. Hopefully this is not one of the cases where just lawyers win. I'm hoping that IE8 comes out and surprises a lot of people with its level of standards support. That would be a win for everyone. David On 14 Dec 2007, at 00:05, James Ellis wrote: Hi I read this on the Opera feed this morning, I'm not sure how it will proceed but it mentions: The complaint describes how Microsoft is abusing its dominant position by tying its browser, Internet Explorer, to the Windows operating system and by hindering interoperability by not following accepted Web standards http://www.opera.com/pressreleases/en/2007/12/13/ I wonder what the flow on effects of this would be internationally rather than just in the EU ? Of course there is the opinion that only lawyers win out of arguments like this but it would defnitely be a more interesting playground if IE wasn't bundled and supported accepted standards better. Cheers James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** David Storey Chief Web Opener Opera Software Oslo, Norway W: http://my.opera.com/dstorey ✉ : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ✆ : +47 24 16 42 26 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] SIte Maps?
But even for a relatively small site having a sitemap will help some users find what they want quickly. Those people are the same ones who will scan the index of a book before flicking through the pages. I've done that on this site: http://www.2plan.com/ despite it only being 15 pages or so. Does anyone think that is overkill? Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christian Montoya Sent: 21 November 2007 14:26 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] SIte Maps? On Nov 20, 2007 7:04 PM, Jermayn Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In coming in late to the discussion: Do we really need a sitemap? I recently read an article were it talked that if all the seo was done properly and it was smallish, you probably do not need a sitemap. I remember that article too. It was saying that a sitemap is meant to expose pages of your site that are difficult to reach for a search spider that starts at the homepage. If you have a working link structure and anyone can reach any page of your site by just following all the links, everything is already exposed and you don't need a sitemap. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Social Networking Site Software / Script
There's a new project by the name of Buddypress which is a open source social networking platform build on Wordpress MU. I believe Andy is trying to make it as standards-compliant as possible. See it at http://buddypress.com. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of varun krishnan Sent: 09 November 2007 12:17 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Social Networking Site Software / Script check http://www.phpfox.com/ On Nov 9, 2007 5:46 PM, varun krishnan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: but pligg is just for social bookmarking and not much into social networking Varun On Nov 9, 2007 5:32 PM, Dave Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vanilla is definitely the most standards compliant forum software I've seen. If you wanted to go down the social networking/bookmarking site route then there's some software called pligg which I believe the likes of digg and sphinn use. http://www.pligg.com/ On 09/11/2007, Rahul Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 09-Nov-07, at 5:04 PM, Web Dandy Design wrote: Discussion Forums. Vanilla [1] seems to be an interesting project, which aims to be a standards-based discussion forum. I seem to remember having little difficulty in installing the software, though I haven't experimented with styling it yet. Best, - Rahul. [1] http://getvanilla.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. www.surfcontrol.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Select that goes to a new URL
Your select name attribute is New_URL but you're looking for a POST attribute called id. Change your PHP script to $_POST[New_URL] and it should work. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Collins Sent: 10 July 2007 15:58 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Select that goes to a new URL Hi all, This should be pretty basic stuff, but coding the forms can be a bit above me sometimes :) I've hunted around and can't seem to find the answer, so here goes... I've got a select box, with a bunch of options that need to go to another page in the website when the go button is clicked. I'm running this on my localhost, so not sure if the CGI scripts are all there, I am running PHP though, so it would be ideal to set it up that way. Here is my code, would appreciate any links/advice. Cheers form action=post action=http://localhost/includes/redirect.php; name=selectCourse id=selectCourseForm fieldset select name=New_URL optionSelect a course/option option value=http://localhost/courses/artsAndMedia.php;Arts amp; Media/option option value=http://localhost/courses/businessAndPublicServices.php;Business amp; Public Services/option option value=http://localhost/courses/careTravelAndTourism.php;Care Travel amp; Tourism/option optionESOL amp; Languages/option optionHair, Beauty amp; Sport/option optionHumanities amp; English/option optionICT amp; Maths/option optionPerforming Arts amp; Media/option optionSkills for life/option optionScience/option /select input name=submit type=submit id=goButton_replace value=Go/ /fieldset /form I've tried it with this redirect PHP script, but doesn't seem to work: ?php header(Location: . $_POST['id']); ? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Page Structure
I'd agree with the SEO expert, H1 should be saved for the most important heading on a page - which is not generally the company name. So in your example I'd say that Rugby World Cup 2007 Packages should be in a H1. However that means it's probably not going to be the first heading element on the page, which is frowned upon by some. Can anyone else expand on the reasons for that? Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Web Man Walking Sent: 27 June 2007 09:25 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Page Structure Hello I am about to start a new website and was given some advice by a SEO expert who says the h1 on the page should be the most relevant thing to the page. For example for a Sports Packages company I design the website for they have: Company Name Tagline Page Content Which in my instance is: Glory Days tickets, accommodation travel packages for major events throughout the uk, europe and worldwide Rugby World Cup 2007 Packages How should this be marked up: h1Glory Days/h1 h2tickets, accommodation travel packages for major events throughout the uk, europe and worldwide/h2 h3Rugby World Cup 2007 Packages/h3 However the Rugby World Cup 2007 is the actual page content, they say that should be the h1 does anyone have a better suggestion as to how to deal with this common problem? Regards Ed Henderson Web Man Walking - web design usability experts t: 0131 669 8800 m: 0781 253 6964 f: 0797 062 1532 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: web-man-walking.com a: 48 Eastfield, Edinburgh, EH15 2PN skype: webmanwalking msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] New technology, old fashioned service *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Page Structure
Good point Tony. Your example with the branding in a p looks like the best one for this situation. I'm certainly going to stick to that for future projects. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Crockford Sent: 27 June 2007 10:09 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Page Structure Chris Taylor wrote: However that means it's probably not going to be the first heading element on the page, which is frowned upon by some. Can anyone else expand on the reasons for that? I think we need to be careful how we visualise page structure. I prefer the pragmatic headed paper approach, which says that there's a header (branding) on every page, the content, and then a footer (often on every page) using that concept, the heading structure begins with the content, not the branding. can anyone explain why branding should be included in the page heading hierarchy? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Tackling tabular data + per row form input
I could do what other frameworks I've worked with do and wrap the whole table in a form and name elements with a parseable delimiter... input type=text name=foo$row$1 ... / This is the type of solution I've used in the past, and then put the save button in the last column of each row, ideally with something like this: button type=submit name=action value=123Save row/table Where the value 123 is the number of the row that should be saved. My server-side script then takes that number and gets all form fields where the name ends with _123 (or similar). The major problem with this is that IE messes up the value of button elements, so I've generally used this: input type=submit name=action value=Save row #123 Then the server-side script takes the value of the action form field, parses out the Save row # and uses the number that's left. It's not pretty but it's the best I could come up with and it seems to have worked for a lot of apps. By the way, using that method you could also have input type=submit name=action value=Save all rows at the top/bottom of the table which the server-side script would then know to loop all form fields and save them all. More complicated code-wise, but useful for users. Hope that helps Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of C. Bergström Sent: 22 June 2007 08:42 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Tackling tabular data + per row form input Hopefully I'm missing something obvious here.. In .Net and Jave this is handled transparently within the framework and I haven't had to look at it in a while.. I'd really like a clean and valid html way to display tabular data, but also need per row ability to do form posts without using a js library preferred. This snippet below works until the point when the table becomes more complex or the the text width varies widely between columns. Source ref [0] !-- Tableless tables start -- div class=notSoWide div class=table div class=th div class=tdItem/div div class=tdDescription/div div class=tdQty/div div class=tdPrice/div div class=td/div div class=td-clear-both/div /div !-- start repeater -- form action=cart.asp method=post class=cmxform div class=tr div class=td%=rs(ProductID)%/div div class=td%=rs(ProductName)%/div div class=td%=rs(Quantity)%/div div class=td%=FormatCurrency(curPrice)%/div div class=td input type=submit value=Remove name=Action class=submit / input type=hidden name=CartID value=%=rs(CartID)% / input type=hidden name=ProductID value=%=rs(ProductID)% / /div div class=td-clear-both/div /div /form !-- loop -- /div /div Alternatively there's something like this.. which isn't valid html and completely out of the question.. table form ... tr tdinput type=text... //td tdinput type=submit ... //td /tr /form or something like this which can be made valid, but I then you come across an almost similar problem as with the div solution in that now columns aren't guaranteed to to line up.. Unless you start forcing width.. etc.. table tr td class=one-big-td form table . I'm a bit out of my normal water on this and making a working mock-up prototype before actually write the app.. I could do what other frameworks I've worked with do and wrap the whole table in a form and name elements with a parseable delimiter... input type=text name=foo$row$1 ... / I know this has been tackled before, but mostly looking for interesting feedback on how it was accomplished.. Cheers, Christopher [0] http://www.bernzilla.com/design/tables/table.html *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Tackling tabular data + per row form input
In this case I don't care about semantics as much as not having to do funky backend parsing and fighting css bugs because of the naming conventions in my controls.. Thankfully this will never see production and just reminds me of the hackish days from the past.. Those hackish days, I remember them well. To be honest I can't see another way round this. You've got a choice between horribly complicated (but technically semantic) HTML, complex JavaScript that could scupper some of your users, or a kludge of backend code. I like doing the backend stuff (stop sniggering, children) so that's the choice I make. But it could be a whole lot easier. Anyway, good luck. Chris *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Triggering POSTs with links?
Cheers, I thought that when I went back to it as well. I'll get that done very soon. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thierry Koblentz Sent: 20 June 2007 17:49 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Triggering POSTs with links? On Behalf Of Chris Taylor Have you tried the button element? As far as I know that can be styled pretty much how you want. I used it on this page: http://www.searchandgo.com/weather/United-States/New-York-City/ - the New York City exchange rates text on the left is a button. Clever... I'd add a cursor:pointer declaration to give pointing device users a clue that this text is clickable. --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Triggering POSTs with links?
Have you tried the button element? As far as I know that can be styled pretty much how you want. I used it on this page: http://www.searchandgo.com/weather/United-States/New-York-City/ - the New York City exchange rates text on the left is a button. I may have missed the point of your question, of course. It happens regularly with me. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Ishida Sent: 20 June 2007 15:52 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Triggering POSTs with links? I put together a box that expands to accommodate larger text in translation, but I forgot that text on a submit button doesn't wrap :O Original: http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-css-charset.en.php#endlinks (see the box to the right) First problematic translation: http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-css-charset.fr.php#endlinks I want the text Send us a comment to look like a link, but trigger a POST, so I put the text in a submit button and styled it. Unfortunately the longer translations won't wrap that way. form action=/International/2007/06/surveyform.php method=post pinput class=interaction value=Send us a comment type=submit/p input name=docname value=/International/questions/qa-css-charset.en.php type=hidden input name=referer value=http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-css-charset.fr.php; type=hidden input name=lang value=en type=hidden /form Does anyone know a better way to do this? I was hoping to avoid using JavaScript, if possible. Cheers, RI Richard Ishida Internationalization Lead W3C (World Wide Web Consortium) http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/ http://www.w3.org/International/ http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/ishida/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Back to the Future
Yes, I did think of that but it's actually an ASP.Net website so really needs to be done in Visual Studio. I'm having great fun, as you can imagine. Things are going to get even more interesting as I'm just about to install Windows 3.11 on a virtual machine to test this stuff *for real*. I have tissues ready and waiting in case I cry. Chris (30 years old today, but feeling at least twice that age) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alastair Campbell Sent: 13 June 2007 19:34 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Back to the Future Chris Taylor wrote: Thanks for the input everyone, it looks like old-school tables with inline styles is the way to go, unfortunately. You may be right, if it were me, I'd install an old copy of Frontpage or dreamweaver and use that... matching the era of the tool with the era of the browser will probably make it less work for you. Cheers, -Alastair *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Back to the Future
Hi all, I've been asked to write a website that MUST work in Netscape 4.03 and IE 3 for Windows 3.1. When you've stopped laughing I'm afraid I have to say I'm serious, and there's no chance at all that the people connecting to the site will upgrade. So, any tips to do this without reverting all the way back to 1996 tables and spacer gifs? Or am I doomed to non-standards hell? Cheers, and wish me luck. Chris *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Back to the Future
Well, there isn't a look yet, as I haven't designed it. It needs to be as simple as possible, so there's no really advanced stuff required and the design will reflect that. It's an intranet system, so only available to users with valid logins, hence it needs to work in a wide spread of browsers. My initial tests show that NN4.03 handles some CSS (float, background, border, font etc) but not some important things (list-style, margin and padding on lists). Is there a source for information about CSS support on old browsers? Thanks Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Dorward Sent: 12 June 2007 17:09 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Back to the Future On 12 Jun 2007, at 17:04, Chris Taylor wrote: I've been asked to write a website that MUST work in Netscape 4.03 and IE 3 for Windows 3.1. When you've stopped laughing I'm afraid I have to say I'm serious, and there's no chance at all that the people connecting to the site will upgrade. So, any tips to do this without reverting all the way back to 1996 tables and spacer gifs? Or am I doomed to non-standards hell? Does 'work' really mean 'look the same'? -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] div hiding and expanding
Hi Kevin, The most obvious way to do this is using JavaScript. There are loads of different JavaScript methods, however I've come up with a small library of functions based on the Prototype framework that lets you do this kind of this, completely unobtrusively and without non-standard markup. Take a look here, it's free to use: http://www.stillbreathing.co.uk/projects/performer/performer.html Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kevin mcmonagle Sent: 22 May 2007 16:39 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] div hiding and expanding Hi, Is there a way to do this unobtrusively and validly? see div ids: div id=/wrapper/ div id=/visible all the time/ /div div id=/hidden but expands when link clicked/, /div /div div id=/wrapper/ div id=/visible all the time/ /div div id=/hidden but expands when link clicked/, /div /div The expanding div would push down the bottom border of the wrapper and expand to the height of its content. It would be used for event listings that have 2 categories of content, one of which is very redundant and wouldn't need to be seen every time. Im not a fan of this kind of thing but in this case the content is very redundant. -best kevin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] div hiding and expanding
Hi Kevin, The most obvious way to do this is using JavaScript. There are loads of different JavaScript methods, however I've come up with a small library of functions based on the Prototype framework that lets you do this kind of this, completely unobtrusively and without non-standard markup. Take a look here, it's free to use: http://www.stillbreathing.co.uk/projects/performer/performer.html Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kevin mcmonagle Sent: 22 May 2007 16:39 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] div hiding and expanding Hi, Is there a way to do this unobtrusively and validly? see div ids: div id=/wrapper/ div id=/visible all the time/ /div div id=/hidden but expands when link clicked/, /div /div div id=/wrapper/ div id=/visible all the time/ /div div id=/hidden but expands when link clicked/, /div /div The expanding div would push down the bottom border of the wrapper and expand to the height of its content. It would be used for event listings that have 2 categories of content, one of which is very redundant and wouldn't need to be seen every time. Im not a fan of this kind of thing but in this case the content is very redundant. -best kevin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Re: Website Directory Structure - Best Practice
I absolutely agree about dated structures, and this technique is well used by millions of blogs around the web. Apache's mod_rewrite makes this pretty easy, and can also handle very complex URI translations. The bottom line for me is to end up with a URI that is obvious and easy for the user to remember, and I make sure that the application does the hard work in translating the URI to display the right information. So, I tend to use this document structure most of the time: /root/ /images/ - all content images /styles/v1/ - CSS for this particular site version (CSS make it easy to redesign sites without modifying the HTML) /styles/c1/images/ - background images, icons etc /page1/ /page2/ /page2/sub-page1/ /page2/sub-page2/ /page3/ With my CMS that uses static files I save all the content HTML in a directory called /content/ with the file name corresponding to the page it is meant to be displayed on. This makes it a simple matter for the server-side script to find the right page and display it. So I only use a-z, 0-9 and - (and /, obviously) in URIs, and replace all the / with _ for the content files, like this: /page1/sub-page2/ - /content/page1_sub-page2.html You may have guessed, for very large sites it's a whole lot easier to use a database! I use this technique to also map navigation, so nested menus (drop menus with sub-sub lists, such as About us Profiles Chris) translate to the correct page (about-us/profiles/chris/). The filesystem was designed as a system to store files, much like a database is a system to store data, therefore it makes sense to logically group related information into directories. The URI and the document that is displayed do not necessarily have to be at exactly the same location. So, I owe the developers of mod_rewrite (and the IIS version, URL ReWrite - http://www.iismods.com/url-rewrite/index.htm) more beers than I care to remember because they make it possible to redirect old (deleted) pages. For example, I'm currently converting one of our websites to CSS and wanted to redirect all old *.asp files to their clean-url counterparts, and can do it with a handy 301 redirect. That helps search engines as well as users. (As an aside, I'm currently experimenting with this URI format as an interface to a RESTful API, the domain just changes to api.myapplication.com). Anyway, there's my tuppence. YMMV! Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lachlan Hunt Sent: 21 March 2006 03:58 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Re: Website Directory Structure - Best Practice Richard Czeiger wrote: For example Latest Mars News for NASA, might be better served with havng an index page with a linked archive of static URLs, or permalinks for latest articles (like /mars/news/060320.html). I fully agree with what you're saying, but just have one minor issue. Dates in file names should always use 4 digit years (or more after y10k). I'm sure you all remember the y2k bug, let's not suffer again with a y2.1k bug. It's best practice to use ISO-8601 dates (with or without the hyphen), especially in file names and it has the advantage that sorting by name also sorts by date. e.g. /mars/news/2006-03-20 Or maybe: /mars/2006/03/20/article-title -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Web design education
Wow, I seem to have kicked off quite a ruckus. From what has been said I believe the situation isn't as bad as I thought, certainly no worse than in business/industry. There is still a long way to go, but we're getting there. So, points to note: 1) Syllabus documents may be out of date, or just not quite in line with what's actually being taught. Lesson: don't believe everything you read, and believe the best until proven otherwise. 2) Some educators are resistant to change, just as some finance directors/marketing departments/project managers are. Lesson: You can lead a horse to water... 3) Many academic institutions are teaching and advocating web standards to their students. Lesson: use the people doing it right as examples, maybe a how web standards has improved our web design course document would be useful. And some things that I've been mulling over for quite a while. Is there an international web design accreditation scheme, or some web master driving licence? Is that one of the aims of a web designers association/guild? And finally, what associations/guilds are you part of? http://www.hwg.org/, http://www.gawds.org/, http://www.iwanet.org/, and http://www.ukwda.org/ are the ones I'm aware of (there are others, I'm sure). thanks Chris ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Re: Web design education
Drew Whitworth said: It does strike me though that the best response of the original poster might have been a polite e-mail to me about it (which to be fair some other posters did do) rather than ranting on a private list about how terrible it all is. All the latter does is exacerbate the appearance of WSG and similar fora as being cliquey. But that is by the by. The feedback has been noted. == Drew, I am sorry that the nature of my original post came across in such an arrogant and ranty manner. That was not my attention, and I unfairly picked on your documentation rather than widening my rant to all organisations unwilling to move with the times - and that's not just academia, but commerce, industry and business in general. However I'm glad the the post started such an interesting discussion, and I hope that in the future a) the good things that are happening will continue to happen and b) I will learn to keep my big gob shut :0) Regards Chris Taylor www.stillbreathing.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Web design education
A large university here in the UK offers web design courses. But I don't hold out much hope for the future when they have things like this in their syllabus: Without the use of tables, all web pages would have to be presented in purely linear form. Many creative uses of the screen would be impossible to achieve. Although tables are a little trickier than other effects used in basic web design, it is mainly a matter of remembering that HTML's first purpose is to structure the page; tables are just an extension of this basic idea. Once you have mastered the basics, you can get some very sophisticated effects with table tags. (Taken from http://www.leeds.ac.uk/acom/webdesign/materials/lesson4.html) Has anyone attended this course? Is it really as bad as all that? To what extent can students do it the right way without being penalised from straying from the Official Course Documentation? And, a larger question for us all: what are we as web standards and accessibility evangelists to do about the continued ingorance and apathy towards this vital subject, especially in academia? Let's hope that the recent Target website court case in the US highlights the cause. Chris Taylor www.stillbreathing.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] CSS background problems in IE6
Hi, I've very nearly finished the new design of my site, available at http://www.stillbreathing.co.uk/design2006/ (css at http://www.stillbreathing.co.uk/design2006/styles/chocolate_and_coffee/s creen.css), however I have a problem in IE6/Win. The header background (the bit with the sunflower) is being repeated, then doing all manner of strange things when the menu is rolled over. I've had a look through QuirksMode but not found quite the same problem. Can the wise persons on this esteemed list please point me in the right direction? Many thanks Chris Taylor Senior Web Developer --- Egton - Leading suppliers of ICT Infrastructure, application software value added services. Telephone: 01132031636 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Privileged and/or Confidential information may be contained in this message. If you are not the original addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, please delete this message, and notify us immediately. Opinions, conclusions and other information expressed in this message are not given or endorsed by my firm nor can I conclude contracts on its behalf unless otherwise indicated by an authorised representative independently of this message. Egton reserves the right to monitor, intercept and (where appropriate) read all incoming and outgoing communications. By replying to this message and where necessary you are taken as being aware of and giving consent to such monitoring, interception and reading. Egton is a division of Egton Medical Information Systems Limited. Registered in England. No 2117205. Registered Office: Park House Mews, 77 Back Lane, Off Broadway, Horsforth, Leeds, LS18 4RF ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Educate the educators (was) Barclays standards redesign
That's actually no different to being a student, with the exception that the lecturer has got a full time job in addition to having to learn all the stuff they have to then teach. ...and that's no different from having a full-time job as a developer, and having to research - and learn - all the new stuff. But you have to agree it is much easier to stay up-to-date if you work in the field every day and actually practically implement new technologies. Surely if you have a room full of 15 students, whose task it is to learn about web development by building website, you have not just one or two clients to try standards out on, but 15. In fact, if each student has 3 projects to do over a year-long course, surely then you have 3 x 15 = 45 different projects? In which case I would say that the role of a web educator is to act as a project manager or technical lead - a code shamen, if you will! - to those students, guiding them into exploring the best way to achieve the desired result. And that should mean regular trips to W3C, QuirksMode, CSS Zen Garden etc etc. Web development - particularly in regard to standards - is an ongoing conversation, never a fixed set of rules. Chris ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Browsers as copilers (was) Barclays standards redesign
Exactly. I was actually thinking the other day, browsers should be more like compilers... they should refuse to parse incorrect code. Then the enforcement would be on the output end, too. Perhaps some clever person could write a Firefox extension that does this - if Chris Pederick is on this list maybe he wants to add this as an option to his excellent Web Developer Toolbar? Or perhaps it could be added as a mode for the FirefoxTIDY extension? Screenshots of a browser displaying (X)HTML errors in the same manner that a compiler does may get the message across that valid markup is important to those that make the decisions about such things. I'd certainly find it useful. Chris ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Barclays standards redesign
Not sure if this has been flagged up anywhere else, but I noticed the barclays website has had a CSS makeover: http://www.barclays.co.uk/. It's great to see a huge company like this hauling themselves into the 21st century web-wise, and maybe it will be a kick up the backside for other less forward-thinking banks. They also have some (brief) information about their design here: http://www.barclays.co.uk/accessibility/web_design.htm regards Chris Taylor Senior Web Developer --- Egton A division of EMIS Leading Providers of ICT Infrastructure, Applications and Value Added Services Tel: 0113 2031636 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: www.egton.net http://www.egton.net/ --- Privileged and/or Confidential information may be contained in this message. If you are not the original addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, please delete this message, and notify us immediately. Opinions, conclusions and other information expressed in this message are not given or endorsed by my firm nor can I conclude contracts on its behalf unless otherwise indicated by an authorised representative independently of this message. Egton reserves the right to monitor, intercept and (where appropriate) read all incoming and outgoing communications. By replying to this message and where necessary you are taken as being aware of and giving consent to such monitoring, interception and reading. Egton is a division of Egton Medical Information Systems Limited. Registered in England. No 2117205. Registered Office: Park House Mews, 77 Back Lane, Off Broadway, Horsforth, Leeds, LS18 4RF ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Learning The DOM
Jeremy, How much JavaScript do you know? Enough to get myself in trouble! Reading Stuarts' book has enlightened me to loads of really useful things, but I realise that as far as scripting languages go (compared to, say, PHP or VBScript) I am just scraping the surface of JavaScript. What kind of things about DOM Scripting need clarifying? Reinforcement of unobtrusive techniques, including best practices and standard code snippets. I'd like to see some more stuff about bullet-proofing scripts as well, particularly when it comes to slower computers and click-happy users. Do you want to see examples of cool stuff with a kind of DOM Scripting for dummies style explanation or more sober articles with a more geeky leaning? Bit of both, really. DOM Scripting has a fairly high built-in cool quotient, just because it makes things happen on the page. But learning why and how something works, not just what it does and how to copy it, is the key to becoming proficient in any area of development. Please share your personal experiences: what's your skill level with JavaScript compared to say, CSS or XHTML? What's your opinion of JavaScript? Compared to (X)HTML and CSS I'm not really very adept at JavaScript, however the few things I've done so far have been a lot easier to complete than I thought they would be. My opinion of JavaScript: the best days are yet to come. Chris ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] are underscores a problem
On Jul 8, 2005, at 1:37 AM, Chris Taylor wrote: I've been using the dash and period in ID names a lot recently (part of an unobtrusive DOM scripting set of functions I've been developing) and not found any problems yet in any of the Win browsers. Whether IDs formatted like this functionName.-fe-4r-6s-ef-s5-ef.2000 will work in older browsers or different operating systems I'm kind of crossing my fingers about! Ben Curtis replied: By not found any problems I assume you mean that these IDs are only referenced by your script, and not the CSS. JS only requires that IDs are strings. Trying to assign styles to your elements via CSS would be problematic, since each period would be interpreted as a class name indicator, and your middle classname starts with a hyphen (an illegal start). But if you are only accessing the info via JS, then it should be fine. Absolutely, and although it would be better to be able to use these IDs for CSS, at the moment it's not essential. Actually, I could have modified the IDs so they didn't have dashes in, but my JavaScript skills gave up at that point. Chris ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] are underscores a problem
I've been using the dash and period in ID names a lot recently (part of an unobtrusive DOM scripting set of functions I've been developing) and not found any problems yet in any of the Win browsers. Whether IDs formatted like this functionName.-fe-4r-6s-ef-s5-ef.2000 will work in older browsers or different operating systems I'm kind of crossing my fingers about! Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter J. Farrell Sent: 08 July 2005 01:25 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] are underscores a problem Richard Czeiger wrote: Does that mean the best way to go fro ID, Class Names, Variables, etc... is interCaps (also known as CamelCase or lowerCamelCase) ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CamelCase R I've adopted lowerCamelCase for nearly everything of my programming guideline except when dealing with databases (in which I use all lower with typical underscores) and class names in Java. As programmed other languages before CSS. Plus lowerCamelCase makes it easier to read than a something named with a ton of underscores. An example from today's work (non-CSS): errorHandler.invalidPropertyName vs error_handler.invalid_property_name Best, .Peter -- Peter J. Farrell :: Maestro Publishing blog:: http://blog.maestropublishing.com email :: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Create boilerplate beans! Check out the Mach-II Bean Creator - free download. http://blog.maestropublishing.com/mach-ii_beaner.htm ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] javascript/DOM resources
As mentioned in a thread last week (?) the DHTML Utopia book is well worth a read, and kudos to the author and publisher for making it. However you should also check out the unobtrusive javascript site at http://www.onlinetools.org/articles/unobtrusivejavascript/ (and the others found at http://www.google.com/search?q=unobtrusive+javascript are worth a look, too). Seeing as there are now loads of tools being offered to simplify Ajax development - Microsoft offered a new one today - it would be best for us standardistas to get in on the act and make sure that things are done properly before it gets too late. The last thing we want is for the entire web community to start doing things the bad old way, it would be like DHTML-Hell all over again... Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Denholm-Price Sent: 29 June 2005 13:12 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] javascript/DOM resources Hi Ted [EMAIL PROTECTED], Just trawling through list emails this seems to have had no replies so my 2p: I'm sure I remember Jeremy Keith (http://adactio.com/) proposing a central archive of modern JS scripts but can't quite find it right now ... try starting from e.g. http://adactio.com/journal/search.php?query=dom+scripting (he told the @media audience that DOM Scripting is the way to throw off the DHTML bad vibes...) A few JS gurus met up after @media PPK's site seems to be a good starting point for ensuing discussion: http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2005/06/you_shouldve_be_1.html Googling for ajax dom scripting throws up loads, including: http://www.andybudd.com/links/javascript_and_the_dom/index.php and a mention of the Sitepoint book DHTML Utopia: Modern Web Design Using JavaScript DOM. HTH, James On 5/3/05, Drake, Ted C. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All I'm in the middle of a site reconstruction. The backbone is ready, the style sheets are ready, what's next? The javascript. We are still using a cookie script copyright 1996. I know there are tons of free javascript archives, but they are equally filled with scripts that live in the old days of tag soup. Is there a resource for javascripts that are designed for standards-compliant web sites. An archive of scripts that work with DOM and degrade well in non-javascript enabled browsers? I would love to approach the scripting team and say, can we replace this with this all-new javascript that will make our lives sooo much better? Thanks ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Background image alignment - percentages and scalable elements
Hi, I'm having difficult aligning a background image the way I want to. The markup is like this: div class=percent2019.65%/div I have a collection of classes (called percent0 to percent100) which have a nice gradiated background image. I'm trying to position the background image on the left of the element so that it covers, in this example, 20% of the element. As you will have guessed this is for a statistics-type application. I've tried all sorts - aligning left/right positive/negative margins etc. As the element needs to be scalable the background should move as well, but keep it's ratio with regard to the width of the element. Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks Chris ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Background image alignment - percentages and scalable elements
Thanks everyone, I got it working. One again the standards ninjas prove their worth! Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of russ - maxdesign Sent: 27 June 2005 13:12 To: Web Standards Group Subject: Re: [WSG] Background image alignment - percentages and scalable elements Hi Chris, Not sure exactly what you mean but this quick sample may help: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/percentage/ The background images scale based on viewport size. Only tested on mac Safari... If this is what you are after, the key is to create large images and use percentages of the images too. In this case I used 1000px wide images (due to laziness) but you should use wider ones in a real site to cover very wide monitors. Russ Hi, I'm having difficult aligning a background image the way I want to. The markup is like this: div class=percent2019.65%/div I have a collection of classes (called percent0 to percent100) which have a nice gradiated background image. I'm trying to position the background image on the left of the element so that it covers, in this example, 20% of the element. As you will have guessed this is for a statistics-type application. I've tried all sorts - aligning left/right positive/negative margins etc. As the element needs to be scalable the background should move as well, but keep it's ratio with regard to the width of the element. Does anyone have any ideas? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Has anybody read these books about JavaScript/AJAX?
I've not read those, but I can recommend Stuar Langridge's excellent DHTML Utopia: Modern Web Design using JavaScript and DOM (http://www.sitepoint.com/books/dhtml1/) which covers pretty much all aspects of modern JavaScript development. And, what's more, stresses the use of unobtrusive JavaScript - which helps greatly in keeping documents clear of ugly code. Definitely worth a read, I think. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roberto Gorjão Sent: 24 June 2005 08:47 To: Web Standards Group Subject: [WSG] Has anybody read these books about JavaScript/AJAX? Hi all, I hope this question isn't off topic... I've discovered two quite recent books about JavaScript with a special emphasis on advanced event handling with DOM Level 2 and its use both for separating behaviours from markup and building dynamic web applications using remote scripting techniques / AJAX. I was wondering if someone had already seen/read them and could provide a quick commentary, namely about which one would be preferable (if any) or if acquiring both would be a good choice for complementarity... The books are: *Beginning MySQL (Programmer to Programmer)* - Robert Sheldon *Professional JavaScript for Web Developers* - Nicholas C. Zakas Thanks! Roberto ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Element Properties Cheat Sheet
I presume everyone is aware of the 1-side-A4 cheatsheets available at http://www.ilovejackdaniels.com/cheat-sheets/? There's CSS, MySQL, mod_rewrite and PHP available for free. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cole Kuryakin - x7m Sent: 13 June 2005 10:00 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Element Properties Cheat Sheet Thanks for the explanation Roberto, as well as the link. Cole - Original Message - From: Roberto Gorjão [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Element Properties Cheat Sheet Hi Cole, As far as I know there is not, probably because browsers have different implementations of CSS properties. I think that best way to do it is to know the CSS properties and which elements they theoretically apply to... and then experiment. Take your example - padding: 0; - for instance... Bottom line you should not have to set this kind of rule because the default for any element is no padding. W3C specifications say that Tables have content, padding, borders, and margins. And Internal table elements generate rectangular boxes with content and borders. Cells have padding as well. Internal table elements do not have margins. (http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/tables.html#q2) So, tables and cells should have padding, and they do, but IE normally does not respect rules that cumulate table and cell padding definitions, as happens in the following example: table style=padding:40px; border:1px solid black tr td style=padding:40px; border:1px solid black a/td tdb/td /tr tr tdc/td tdd/td /tr /table Anyway, the W3Schools CSS2 Reference alerted to this fact, so theirs is a good page to confirm eventual doubts: http://www.w3schools.com/css/pr_padding.asp I also think that this book is very useful: Cascading Style Sheets 2.0, Programmer's Reference by Eric Meyer. Roberto Cole Kuryakin - x7m wrote: Is there any guide or cheat sheet out there somewhere which gives the exact properties of each html element which CAN be altered/positioned/styled via CSS? Like I've been putting: margin: 0; padding: 0; on a default table rule set, but something I've just read indicates that tables don't have padding - so the padding rule for tables is useless. I've been doing the same for trs, but something else I came across said that tr's don't have margin or padding properties. I'm trying to streamline my stylesheets and would like to get rid of any superflous rules that don't apply - or have no effect on - specific elements. The easiest way I can think of to do this would be to reference some kind of (easy to understand) document that says - or shows - that you can set the margin of a table, but not the padding, etc. Cole ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us
Great, yet another reason to make me depressed about not being there! Please keep me in the loop about this, I'd be very interested in attending/helping to organise. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke Sent: 12 June 2005 00:07 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us Chris Taylor wrote: Anyone else in the UK want to have our own meeting and show the Ozzies how it's really done? ;0) Can't spill the beans just yet, but there are plans currently being worked on (and further discussed during the recent @media2005 event in London) to set up a network for the organisation of this type of events across the UK. Watch this space... -- Patrick H. Lauke _ re*dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us
I'm near Leeds as well, but I'd come to London for a meeting (probably not on a monthly basis, though). As someone has said, how do we go about organising this? Surely we just need a date and a venue - and if there's only a few people then anywhere that we can get a laptop and projector would do. Preferably with a pub nearby :0) Alternatively, if there's a few of us up North, we could organise something nearby. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lisa B. McLaughlin Sent: 09 June 2005 20:03 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us I live near Leeds and am a newbie with web standards. I'd like to attend anyway if there is a meeting up north. Lisa Lisa B. McLaughlin, NCW [EMAIL PROTECTED] AllSpunUp Web Designs for Small Businesses with Big Visions ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us
Or, as it might be technically easier, providing an audio (MP3/OGG) file of the seminars and the presentation slides would be great. Anyone else in the UK want to have our own meeting and show the Ozzies how it's really done? ;0) Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 09 June 2005 05:30 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us Hey don't forget us folks up in Darwin, we may be in Australia but we are still miles away! A webcast or streaming video would be great. Cheers *** Helen Rysavy Web Designer Teaching Learning Development Group Charles Darwin University, Northern Territory 0909 Tel: 8946 7779 Mobile: 0403 290 842 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] CRICOS Provider No: 00300K *** Adam Burmister (DSL AK) To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org [EMAIL PROTECTED]cc: acom.co.nzSubject: RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] sgroup.org 09/06/2005 12:54 PM Please respond to wsg Somebody should webcast the live event. I'd love to attend in person, but I'm stuck in Auckland :( (Damn cold too)! Adam -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kazuhito Kidachi Sent: Thursday, 9 June 2005 3:17 p.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us 2005/6/9, Cole Kuryakin - x7m [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Man, oh man, would I love to attend some (pretty much all) of the meetings, seminars and discussions being hosted/held by WSG - but they seem to all be in Sydney. Me too. I'm in Japan and I can understand what you feel. So, if some resources like slides or short minutes are available for each meeting, all of the rest of us would be happy, I believe. BTW, now some people living in Tokyo are thinking about planning local meeting as a part of WSG. So my question is, how to setup such a local meeting. Is it only inputting time/place info on the WSG site? Australia, Philippines and Japan are located in almost same time zone. In future, we may share the same experience at the same time. It's just my thought. Kazuhito -- Kazuhito Kidachi mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Valid characters in ID attribute
Hi, I'm writing a function to do all manner of clever stuff and need to create very complex ID attributes for links. As far as I know the only valid characters you can use in an ID (and as a class name, too) are: A-Z, a-z, 0-9, _, - Is that true? Are there any other valid characters that I can use in my IDs, without going the whole hog and creating a new DTD? Example of a link, just to make it clear which bit I mean: a href=index.html class=TheFunction id=TheFunction_%6237%6882/34_923%4623%4-234+6+3-2343Click here to run The Function/a Many thanks in advance Chris ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Valid characters in ID attribute
Great, thanks. I'm very pleased that I can use periods and colons, that makes it much easier. Because this system will only be reading the ID through the DOM and not referring to it for style reasons I'm going to stick with the underscores. However I'll remember that advice for the future. Many thanks. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Gleitzman Sent: 07 June 2005 14:02 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Valid characters in ID attribute On 7 Jun 2005, at 9:35 PM, Ricci Angela wrote: But I'd avoid using underscore for id/class names... I've already had intermitent bugs with IE6 because of it (specially for links). Ditto for Safari... earlier versions, anyway. More recent versions may have been fixed, but I avoid them (underscores) anyway. N ___ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Valid characters in ID attribute
Thanks, obviously ideally I'd like my function to be XHTML-compliant as well. Fortunately I've worked out a way I can do what I want to do using just dashes, periods and alphanumeric characters. Thanks for all the help. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robin Berjon Sent: 07 June 2005 16:22 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Valid characters in ID attribute Chris Taylor wrote: Great, thanks. I'm very pleased that I can use periods and colons, that makes it much easier. Not sure this applies to your case but note that colons are fine in HTML but forbidden in XHTML. -- Robin Berjon Senior Research Scientist Expway, http://expway.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: Subject: DIVs and horizontal scroll -- WAS: RE: [WSG] the mysteries of float - i seek enlightenment
Thanks everyone. In the end I used Gunlaug's solution (slightly modified), and
wrapped the calendar table in an extra DIV with a class of horizontalscroll:
.horizontalscroll
{
overflow: auto;
margin: 0 0 0 1em;
width: 95%;
_overflow-y: visible;
padding: 0 1em 1em 0;
}
Seems to work OK in FF 1.0.4, Opera 7.50, Mozilla 1.7.3 and IE 5.01, 5.5 and 6
all under Windows XP. The _overflow-y bit seems to only affect IE, I'll have
to do some reading up about that property.
Thanks again
Chris
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gunlaug Sørtun
Sent: 26 May 2005 17:46
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: Subject: DIVs and horizontal scroll -- WAS: RE: [WSG] the
mysteries of float - i seek enlightenment
Chris Taylor wrote:
I'm trying to get a very wide table to appear inside a DIV and scroll
horizontally, but not vertically. Take a look at
http://www.egton.net/yearview/index.html to see what I mean. What I
would like is for the calendar table to be horizontally scrollable
inside Tapes due in - Year View DIV. Eventually I'll be adding
additional information inside each days cell, so the DIV needs to be
able to resize vertically, yet not break in IE.
A quick solution - working, but need fine-tuning for your page.
Tested in Opera8, FF1.0 and IE6.
div id=pane2 style=overflow: auto; margin: 0 0 0 10px; float: left;
width: 60%; _overflow-y: visible; _padding-bottom: 1em;
This will auto-adjust no matter how much you put in there (within reason).
Note that your styles for #pane2 is still working. I'm just overriding some of
them. Clean up later... :-)
regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
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RE: [WSG] the mysteries of float - i seek enlightenment
Hi, I'm trying to get a very wide table to appear inside a DIV and scroll horizontally, but not vertically. Take a look at http://www.egton.net/yearview/index.html to see what I mean. What I would like is for the calendar table to be horizontally scrollable inside Tapes due in - Year View DIV. Eventually I'll be adding additional information inside each days cell, so the DIV needs to be able to resize vertically, yet not break in IE. I've tried various permutations of max-width/max-height and overflow, but nothing seems to work. If anyone can help I'd be more than grateful. Thanks Chris ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Subject: DIVs and horizontal scroll -- WAS: RE: [WSG] the mysteries of float - i seek enlightenment
Hi, Posted this with an incorrect subject first time, sorry about that. The end of the week looms and my brain is starting to shut down. I'm trying to get a very wide table to appear inside a DIV and scroll horizontally, but not vertically. Take a look at http://www.egton.net/yearview/index.html to see what I mean. What I would like is for the calendar table to be horizontally scrollable inside Tapes due in - Year View DIV. Eventually I'll be adding additional information inside each days cell, so the DIV needs to be able to resize vertically, yet not break in IE. I've tried various permutations of max-width/max-height and overflow, but nothing seems to work. If anyone can help I'd be more than grateful. Thanks Chris ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Image alignment and text
Hi,
Is there a CSS equivalent for the age-old image properties
'align=left' and 'align=right'. When these are used any text that is
next to the image is automatically lined up with the top of the image.
Using 'float: left' keeps the text level with the bottom of the image.
Example:
Source:
pimg src=logo.png alt=The Company Name/p
Old-style:
pimg src=logo.png alt= align=leftThe Company Name/p
= correct display
New style:
style
img{
float: left;
}
/style
pimg src=logo.png alt=The Company Name/p
= incorrect display
I know it sounds stupid, but I'm a bit stumped. Any help will be
gratefully received.
Thanks
Chris
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RE: [WSG] Image alignment and text
Excellent, many thanks.
Chris
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gunlaug Sørtun
Sent: 25 January 2005 14:28
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Image alignment and text
Chris Taylor wrote:
Is there a CSS equivalent for the age-old image properties
'align=left' and 'align=right'. When these are used any text that
is next to the image is automatically lined up with the top of the
image.
The way we usually do it looks more like this:
style
img{
float: left;
}
/style
img src=logo.png alt=
pThe Company Name/p
...where the entire paragraph flows up and align with the top of the image.
You can also make your image in a paragraph work by using vertical-align.
Some more about that here:
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visudet.html#propdef-vertical-align
regards
Georg
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RE: [WSG] Popups
As I read your mail I was going to suggest the hidden DIV with a show/hide toggle button, then there it was at the bottom. I try to stay away from popup windows where I can. When I've needed to do this, and I you have enough space on the page, I've shown the help in a nicely-formatted (light yellow, grey border) box to the right of the field, rather than below, then when people toggle the DIV it doesn't break the flow of the form if they leave the DIV shown. Depends on the amount of text you need show, I suppose. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of david Sent: 13 January 2005 12:50 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Popups Here's the situation: I've got a form that users fill out in order to add something to a database... Under each dt, there's the label for= element for each of the input elements, and that works fine But because of the layout of the page, the label values are kept short, yes... there are title= attributes, but IE and FF don't show the whole text So I was thinking about doing what other sites do... and thats to put a more info on this field link, people click on it, and a popup appears with the minimum of browser UI chrome and jumps to the right section in the code Ordinarily, this would be achieved with the help of JavaScript and Window.Open(), so much for cross-browser compatibility. Then there's the target=_blank anchor attribute, but this is disallowed by the DTD I'm using (XHTML1.1 w/ IFrame), that... plus it doesn't offer a way to get rid of browser UI elements. Does anyone have any alternatives? I was thinking of having a JavaScript show/hide function with the instructions and extra detail contained in a div style=visibility: none;/div ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Site check
Hi, I'd be very grateful if people could check this site, particularly on Mac and Linux platforms. It seems to run OK in FireFox 1, Mozilla 1.7.3, Opera 7.50 and IE 6, and it validates correctly. URL: http://www.stgauderic.net/en/ It will eventually have some textual content, and be available in a variety of languages. More information is available on request on the underlying structure of the site. Any constructive criticism would be greatly appreciated. While I'm here I'd also like to know of a good mailing list regarding database development and coding for websites and web applications - MySQL, SQL Server, Access, XML etc. If anyone knows of one I'd appreciate the info. Thanks Chris Taylor Senior Web Developer Egton.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Site check www.stgauderic.net/en/
I agree in part with your first comment. The problem is that a lot of the time (I would guess) most people want a complete test in a browser/platform they don't have access to - useability, standards, validity etc etc. BrowserCam is great, but doesn't give you any help regarding useability - other pairs of eyes are what is needed. Therefore a please check this in Mac/PC/WebTV/whatever is pretty valid, as far as I'm concerned. I completely agree with your second point, I'll make sure I do that in future. ta Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Faaberg Sent: 07 January 2005 10:51 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Site check if people could check this site My response has nothing to do with your's or anybody's specific request but I think folks should specify something wrt web standards that they are requesting evaluation or feedback with/about in their message other than please check this on your Mac browsers or please check this in your PC browsers. Also, it would be cool if folks would provide some parenthetical reference to what website we're talking about since site check occurs with great regularity - like site check www.mywonderfulsite.com in the email subject. See ya! Rick Faaberg ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Font size
The solution you posted is user oriented. What about developers ? Surely ANY solution has to be user orientated. After all, we are designing sites for users, not for developers. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Javier Sent: 18 November 2004 09:39 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Font size David Laakso wrote: Jeroen Visser [ vizi ] wrote: I myself set a base size on the body element (most of the time 76% like Owen Briggs) and then use em's to set up the rest of the typography. Hmm, 76% on the body element, thats 24% smaller than my default? Kinda tough on us older folks. David, you understate the problem. Take a look at: http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/area76.html and the three links at the ending the content. -- Well, I love critic people...but also, I know is easy to be critic but is not so easy to give solutions. I really respect your opinion and could agree with it but I find you are so critic with web developers but give no solutions to the problem. Now, I'm a web developer that don't want to fall in the tirany you described. What should I do to be a better developer with the user in mine ? Do you have a solution or recommendation ? The solution you posted is user oriented. What about developers ? thanks in advance Javier __ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Another site review
Looks good (I've only tried it in Win/Firefox so far) but the thing that immediately struck me is that you have all the MIDI files in the site root. I know this isn't a standards issue, but wouldn't it be better to split them into alphabetical folders? Maybe I'm a data structure nutcase, but that would annoy me. Other than that, simple, clean design. I especially like the way the text is so clear - good choice of font, size and color. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bennie Shepherd Sent: 04 November 2004 17:41 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Another site review I would like to get comments on my site. http://bennieshepherd.com Thanks guys... -- Get Firefox Browser http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=6908amp;t=58 Bennie's MIDI Page http://bennieshepherd.com/ Athens, Georgia, Relay For Life http://www.athensrelay.net/ Montrose, Colorado, Relay For Life http://montroserelay.com/ Grand Junction, Colorado, Relay For Life http://grandjunctionrelay.org LZ Friendly Veterans Org http://lzfriendly.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
