Re: [WSG] Marking up multiple form inputs
Chris, Please can you provide more information about the form. I would be hesitant in agreeing with a solution that seems to omit the labels for the second form controls. Darren 2008/6/10 Chris Pearce [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, Would the following layout be best marked up using a table: Column Header Column Header [label tag] [input tag] [input tag] [label tag] [input tag] [input tag] [label tag] [input tag] [input tag] Cheers solutions for a digital world Exchange Server 2007 Built-in Protection, Anywhere Access, Operational Efficiency BLUEARC WILL HELP YOU MAKE THE MOVE. FIND OUT HOW level 1, 11 albany street st leonards nsw 2065 p: 02 9467 2500 d: 02 9467 25 f: 02 9431 5999 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: www.bluearcgroup.com ARE YOU READY FOR NEXT GENERATION WEB TECHNOLOGY? Leading the way in Web Content Management, IgnitionSuite Version 3.0 prepares you for the future of the web. To learn more call 9467 2500 or email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Privileged - Private Confidential This email and files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) and may contain information which is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this email or any attachment is prohibited. If you receive this email and you are not the addressee, or you have received this email in error, please disregard the contents of the email, delete the email and notify the author immediately. P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Should we design for 800x600 screens?
An alternative could be to develop with relative sizes for all measurements, allowing the interface to be scaled to any screen resolution. Examples can be seen at http://www.linkedin.com and http://www.sky.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript
Joe said: then you need to be aware at build time that when javascript off, and nested navigation is therefore expanded in order to provide equal access to features for people without dependence to javascript, the design needs to allow for this. Yes, the equality should be inherent. At build time? having the nav overlap content is pretty unnecessary anyway. I don't think this is a matter of necessity. I was referring to the drop downs overlapping the content which I believe in the majority of use cases that is exactly what happens ...they rarely push the content down when shown? Sorry but bad design, planning and and architecture is not an excuse... No one here is making excuses You could, for example, not have it popout in the first place, negating the need to have an alternative solution for others. You could, also, for example, only show subnav within a section, negating the need for popouts. If your architecture is clear and obvious, and you have plenty of clear pointers to the content sections, the popout subnav becomes less necessary. Again I don't believe believe we're talking necessity, the popout or drop down menu I believe should be there to enhance the user experience, make it easier and quicker to navigate 2008/6/7 Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]: then you need to be aware at build time that when javascript off, and nested navigation is therefore expanded in order to provide equal access to features for people without dependence to javascript, the design needs to allow for this. having the nav overlap content is pretty unnecessary anyway. Sorry but bad design, planning and and architecture is not an excuse... You could, for example, not have it popout in the first place, negating the need to have an alternative solution for others. You could, also, for example, only show subnav within a section, negating the need for popouts. If your architecture is clear and obvious, and you have plenty of clear pointers to the content sections, the popout subnav becomes less necessary. On Jun 6 2008, at 16:18, Darren West wrote: Joe said: Therefore if javascript is off, any descended subnav should display in it's expanded state. I agree with this pattern for some scenerios, for example with tabbed panels, but (depending on the design) surely with drop down navigation it would cause usability issues with the expanded states for all drop downs overlapping each other and other content *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.typingthevoid.com www.joiz.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript
Cool design, maybe you could reveal the sublnks onClick? then keep the panel open and repopulate with the relevant links as you move over the navigation links. If you have the time/money in the project, it would be well worth doing user testing :-) We maybe veering away from the purpose of this mailing list 2008/6/6 James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The same image but with the content and withut the dropdown showing: http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=standard01qi5.png I think it might work without the dropdown. I will have to speak to the youth centre manager on Wednesday. James On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 5:34 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is an example of the NEW idea: http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/3992/standard01yo8.png This has got me thinking though. If there is going to be a sub navigation part on every page is there really any need for the dropdown? By adding the dropdown the only benefit the user will get is that they don't have to click twice to get to a section/sub page. For example to access Maypole Radio they select other services and click. Without it they would have to click Other Services and select from the static sub navigation menu. I am not sure if its going to be worth it in the end. Obviously the static sub navigation is going to be amust so that i can cover everything. The Suckerfish menu now seems useless in a way. If i leave it there it may add extra confusion to the navigation of the website. If you get what i mean. Cheers for the input so far. James On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 5:07 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With the pure CSS version, and using Javascript to take care of IE 5, you can ensure it will work with browsers with JS disabled. Thats why i chose to use the Suckerfish style dropdowns. Also you can add some extra behvaiour ontop of the pure CSS menu's. I think maybe the best solution would be to display sub link on the sub pages. Save all the hassle of using conditionals and stuff. I did think about doing it this way at first but then started wondering about user experience and possible confusion. It's always the simple approaches that tend to be the best. Thanks for your support fellow CSS'ers On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Jeffery Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 2:49 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript Maybe i am being a little bit picky with this. I have a suckerfish dropdown, as i feel it is the best approach for cross-browser (but not A grade) dropdowns. The website i am working on is a youth centre's. The target audience is the community, which can be young or very old. The very old may be using IE 5 on older computers (at a guess). If they have JS disabled and are using IE 5 then they cannot view the navigation links. Whats your views on the best way around this? I was thinking about sing PHP to determine what browser the user is using and if JS is enabled. If its IE 5 and it is not enabled then when a user clicks a link from the navigation menu the page will load but under the navigation will be another div that lists the links uder that sub heading. - | nav nav nav nav nav nav nav | - | sub link sub link | | sub link sub link | | sub link sub link | - all the other content goes on as normal Only users who are using a browser that does not support the hover psudeo selector on anything other than a elements will see that box. It will be generated using PHP before the page loads. I was thinking about doing that for all the users, and have that displaying regardless, but that may add confusion to the user experience i feel. Anyone ideas? Hi James, I have these two: http://tjkdesign.com/articles/Pure_CSS_Dropdown_Menus.asp I believe they are compatible with ie5 Win and Mac But if you ask me, I'd say the best approach would be to use a good JS menu rather than a pure CSS solution. -- Regards, Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe:
Re: [WSG] Breadcrumbs showing organisational structure and usability
Ihttp://developer.yahoo.com/ypatterns/pattern.php?pattern=breadcrumbs 2008/6/6 libwebdev [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi folks, My organisation manages around 7000+ pages for 100s of departments, using a CMS. Mine is the only department outside the CMS, just because we can. We have been persuaded (read: bullied) to redesign our header to exactly match that of the parent organisation. I have no problem with that per se, but theirs includes breadcrumbs, and we don't want 'em. I'm wondering what the consensus is here on their usefulness. I've always been under the impression that the purpose of breadcrumbs was to indicate to the user where they had been. However, the ones we are being urged to implement do no such thing; they simply display our organisational structure. This means that on every one of our 200-odd pages, the breadcrumbs will appear like so (we are the library): Parent Org Clinical Services Library Current page The only thing that's going to change is the current page. To me, that's not a breadcrumb trail at all. Am I wrong in my thinking? Is this a common usage? How does this benefit the user at all? I'm questioning it because of usability issues, which is how I tie it in with web standards. If this is considered off-topic, I apologise, and replies should come directly to me rather than the list. thanks, lib. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript
James, Have you heard of progressive enhancement? - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Enhancement I would link all the 'nav' items to root pages that include the sub links so if JS is unavailable a usable experience is provided for all, then if JS is available, enhance the experience by displaying the 'sub links' in a dropdown ... Darren *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript
Joe said: Therefore if javascript is off, any descended subnav should display in it's expanded state. I agree with this pattern for some scenerios, for example with tabbed panels, but (depending on the design) surely with drop down navigation it would cause usability issues with the expanded states for all drop downs overlapping each other and other content *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Help With Hover
Olajide,
I've not tested on IE as just reinstalled and haven't had chance to
put parallels back but, what about this ...
a {
background: black;
}
a:hover {
padding: 5px;
}
a:hover img {
margin: -0px -5px -10px -5px;
}
Hope it helps
Darren
2008/6/5 Olajide Olaolorun [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Please i need help in fixing this. If you go to
http://www.rockondude.net/index.php in the main content area, am trying to
have it that the images dont have an a:hover effect. How do i achieve this?
I've been messing around with it all day but nothing..
--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
RoD: http://www.rockondude.net
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz
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Re: [WSG] Help With Hover
Opps, no, it sucks up the next block element
2008/6/5 Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Olajide,
I've not tested on IE as just reinstalled and haven't had chance to
put parallels back but, what about this ...
a {
background: black;
}
a:hover {
padding: 5px;
}
a:hover img {
margin: -0px -5px -10px -5px;
}
Hope it helps
Darren
2008/6/5 Olajide Olaolorun [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Please i need help in fixing this. If you go to
http://www.rockondude.net/index.php in the main content area, am trying to
have it that the images dont have an a:hover effect. How do i achieve this?
I've been messing around with it all day but nothing..
--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
RoD: http://www.rockondude.net
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz
***
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Re: [WSG] Help With Hover
Maybe this ...
a {
background: black;
}
a:hover {
border: 0;
padding: 5px;
}
a img {
border: 0;
}
a:hover img {
border-bottom: 6px solid white;
margin: -0px -5px -10px -5px;
}
Its not happening on the homepage now as the images have been centered
using the align attribute on the parent paragraph
2008/6/5 Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Opps, no, it sucks up the next block element
2008/6/5 Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Olajide,
I've not tested on IE as just reinstalled and haven't had chance to
put parallels back but, what about this ...
a {
background: black;
}
a:hover {
padding: 5px;
}
a:hover img {
margin: -0px -5px -10px -5px;
}
Hope it helps
Darren
2008/6/5 Olajide Olaolorun [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Please i need help in fixing this. If you go to
http://www.rockondude.net/index.php in the main content area, am trying to
have it that the images dont have an a:hover effect. How do i achieve this?
I've been messing around with it all day but nothing..
--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
RoD: http://www.rockondude.net
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz
***
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Re: [WSG] Help With Hover
Target the links specifically in the mainContent using:
div#mainContent a {
...
2008/6/5 Olajide Olaolorun [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Darren, at the sidebar the new changes is affecting the images on the
sidebar... :( The sidebar was alright before...
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 5:02 PM, Olajide Olaolorun
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks Darren. If you look at the events page not, everything is good. Jut
the movement is still there, thats ok. That one is not like the other one so
thats good ;-)
One more question, if you look at the end of a post, you will see the
Share This link. Now mouse over it and see that the Share This moves into
the image? Why is that?
THANKS
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Maybe this ...
a {
background: black;
}
a:hover {
border: 0;
padding: 5px;
}
a img {
border: 0;
}
a:hover img {
border-bottom: 6px solid white;
margin: -0px -5px -10px -5px;
}
Its not happening on the homepage now as the images have been centered
using the align attribute on the parent paragraph
2008/6/5 Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Opps, no, it sucks up the next block element
2008/6/5 Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Olajide,
I've not tested on IE as just reinstalled and haven't had chance to
put parallels back but, what about this ...
a {
background: black;
}
a:hover {
padding: 5px;
}
a:hover img {
margin: -0px -5px -10px -5px;
}
Hope it helps
Darren
2008/6/5 Olajide Olaolorun [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Please i need help in fixing this. If you go to
http://www.rockondude.net/index.php in the main content area, am
trying to
have it that the images dont have an a:hover effect. How do i achieve
this?
I've been messing around with it all day but nothing..
--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
RoD: http://www.rockondude.net
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz
***
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***
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--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
RoD: http://www.rockondude.net
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz
--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
RoD: http://www.rockondude.net
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz
***
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Re: [WSG] Help With Hover
Because in your style.css you have:
a:hover {
padding: 2px;
}
and in sharethis.css you have:
a.stbutton {
padding:1px 5px 5px 22px;
}
so when you hover over any link it will set the padding to 2px,
overiding the padding of a.stbutton.
Try
a.stbutton:hover {
padding:1px 5px 5px 22px;
}
2008/6/5 Olajide Olaolorun [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Thanks Darren. If you look at the events page not, everything is good. Jut
the movement is still there, thats ok. That one is not like the other one so
thats good ;-)
One more question, if you look at the end of a post, you will see the Share
This link. Now mouse over it and see that the Share This moves into the
image? Why is that?
THANKS
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Maybe this ...
a {
background: black;
}
a:hover {
border: 0;
padding: 5px;
}
a img {
border: 0;
}
a:hover img {
border-bottom: 6px solid white;
margin: -0px -5px -10px -5px;
}
Its not happening on the homepage now as the images have been centered
using the align attribute on the parent paragraph
2008/6/5 Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Opps, no, it sucks up the next block element
2008/6/5 Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Olajide,
I've not tested on IE as just reinstalled and haven't had chance to
put parallels back but, what about this ...
a {
background: black;
}
a:hover {
padding: 5px;
}
a:hover img {
margin: -0px -5px -10px -5px;
}
Hope it helps
Darren
2008/6/5 Olajide Olaolorun [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Please i need help in fixing this. If you go to
http://www.rockondude.net/index.php in the main content area, am
trying to
have it that the images dont have an a:hover effect. How do i achieve
this?
I've been messing around with it all day but nothing..
--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
RoD: http://www.rockondude.net
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz
***
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--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
RoD: http://www.rockondude.net
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz
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Re: [WSG] Help With Hover
You maybe able to make it works with further experimentation ...
2008/6/5 Olajide Olaolorun [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
One more thing, it doesnt work on IE :(
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 5:04 PM, Olajide Olaolorun
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Darren, at the sidebar the new changes is affecting the images on the
sidebar... :( The sidebar was alright before...
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 5:02 PM, Olajide Olaolorun
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks Darren. If you look at the events page not, everything is good.
Jut the movement is still there, thats ok. That one is not like the other
one so thats good ;-)
One more question, if you look at the end of a post, you will see the
Share This link. Now mouse over it and see that the Share This moves into
the image? Why is that?
THANKS
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Maybe this ...
a {
background: black;
}
a:hover {
border: 0;
padding: 5px;
}
a img {
border: 0;
}
a:hover img {
border-bottom: 6px solid white;
margin: -0px -5px -10px -5px;
}
Its not happening on the homepage now as the images have been centered
using the align attribute on the parent paragraph
2008/6/5 Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Opps, no, it sucks up the next block element
2008/6/5 Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Olajide,
I've not tested on IE as just reinstalled and haven't had chance to
put parallels back but, what about this ...
a {
background: black;
}
a:hover {
padding: 5px;
}
a:hover img {
margin: -0px -5px -10px -5px;
}
Hope it helps
Darren
2008/6/5 Olajide Olaolorun [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Please i need help in fixing this. If you go to
http://www.rockondude.net/index.php in the main content area, am
trying to
have it that the images dont have an a:hover effect. How do i
achieve this?
I've been messing around with it all day but nothing..
--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
RoD: http://www.rockondude.net
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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***
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--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
RoD: http://www.rockondude.net
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz
--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
RoD: http://www.rockondude.net
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz
--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
RoD: http://www.rockondude.net
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz
***
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Re: [WSG] Help With Hover
I should have made it clear, the CSS rules I gave you were meant as a
guide; to be fair, as Prisca has just said in your new thread, your
CSS really could do with being tightened up to avoid these problems. A
start would be to put more specificity into your rules, so
replace:
a img {
...
with:
div#mainContent a img {
...
2008/6/5 Olajide Olaolorun [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
What do you mean?
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 5:11 PM, Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Target the links specifically in the mainContent using:
div#mainContent a {
...
2008/6/5 Olajide Olaolorun [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Darren, at the sidebar the new changes is affecting the images on the
sidebar... :( The sidebar was alright before...
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 5:02 PM, Olajide Olaolorun
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks Darren. If you look at the events page not, everything is good.
Jut
the movement is still there, thats ok. That one is not like the other
one so
thats good ;-)
One more question, if you look at the end of a post, you will see the
Share This link. Now mouse over it and see that the Share This moves
into
the image? Why is that?
THANKS
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Maybe this ...
a {
background: black;
}
a:hover {
border: 0;
padding: 5px;
}
a img {
border: 0;
}
a:hover img {
border-bottom: 6px solid white;
margin: -0px -5px -10px -5px;
}
Its not happening on the homepage now as the images have been centered
using the align attribute on the parent paragraph
2008/6/5 Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Opps, no, it sucks up the next block element
2008/6/5 Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Olajide,
I've not tested on IE as just reinstalled and haven't had chance to
put parallels back but, what about this ...
a {
background: black;
}
a:hover {
padding: 5px;
}
a:hover img {
margin: -0px -5px -10px -5px;
}
Hope it helps
Darren
2008/6/5 Olajide Olaolorun [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Please i need help in fixing this. If you go to
http://www.rockondude.net/index.php in the main content area, am
trying to
have it that the images dont have an a:hover effect. How do i
achieve
this?
I've been messing around with it all day but nothing..
--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
RoD: http://www.rockondude.net
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz
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--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
RoD: http://www.rockondude.net
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz
--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
RoD: http://www.rockondude.net
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz
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--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
RoD: http://www.rockondude.net
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz
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Re: [WSG] Help With Hover
No but you do have access to style.css so pop it in there
2008/6/5 Olajide Olaolorun [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Where did you see the sharethis.css? I think thats on the sharethis.com
website. I have no access to that.
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 5:19 PM, Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You maybe able to make it works with further experimentation ...
2008/6/5 Olajide Olaolorun [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
One more thing, it doesnt work on IE :(
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 5:04 PM, Olajide Olaolorun
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Darren, at the sidebar the new changes is affecting the images on the
sidebar... :( The sidebar was alright before...
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 5:02 PM, Olajide Olaolorun
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks Darren. If you look at the events page not, everything is good.
Jut the movement is still there, thats ok. That one is not like the
other
one so thats good ;-)
One more question, if you look at the end of a post, you will see the
Share This link. Now mouse over it and see that the Share This moves
into
the image? Why is that?
THANKS
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Maybe this ...
a {
background: black;
}
a:hover {
border: 0;
padding: 5px;
}
a img {
border: 0;
}
a:hover img {
border-bottom: 6px solid white;
margin: -0px -5px -10px -5px;
}
Its not happening on the homepage now as the images have been
centered
using the align attribute on the parent paragraph
2008/6/5 Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Opps, no, it sucks up the next block element
2008/6/5 Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Olajide,
I've not tested on IE as just reinstalled and haven't had chance
to
put parallels back but, what about this ...
a {
background: black;
}
a:hover {
padding: 5px;
}
a:hover img {
margin: -0px -5px -10px -5px;
}
Hope it helps
Darren
2008/6/5 Olajide Olaolorun [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Please i need help in fixing this. If you go to
http://www.rockondude.net/index.php in the main content area, am
trying to
have it that the images dont have an a:hover effect. How do i
achieve this?
I've been messing around with it all day but nothing..
--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
RoD: http://www.rockondude.net
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz
***
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--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
RoD: http://www.rockondude.net
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz
--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
RoD: http://www.rockondude.net
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz
--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
RoD: http://www.rockondude.net
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz
***
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--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
RoD: http://www.rockondude.net
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz
***
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Re: [WSG] Help With Hover
Are there ... how many?
2008/6/5 Todd [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Darren West wrote:
You maybe able to make it works with further experimentation ...
2008/6/5 Olajide Olaolorun [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
One more thing, it doesnt work on IE :(
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 5:04 PM, Olajide Olaolorun
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Darren, at the sidebar the new changes is affecting the images on the
sidebar... :( The sidebar was alright before...
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 5:02 PM, Olajide Olaolorun
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks Darren. If you look at the events page not, everything is good.
Jut the movement is still there, thats ok. That one is not like the other
one so thats good ;-)
One more question, if you look at the end of a post, you will see the
Share This link. Now mouse over it and see that the Share This moves into
the image? Why is that?
THANKS
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Maybe this ...
a {
background: black;
}
a:hover {
border: 0;
padding: 5px;
}
a img {
border: 0;
}
a:hover img {
border-bottom: 6px solid white;
margin: -0px -5px -10px -5px;
}
Its not happening on the homepage now as the images have been centered
using the align attribute on the parent paragraph
2008/6/5 Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Opps, no, it sucks up the next block element
2008/6/5 Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Olajide,
I've not tested on IE as just reinstalled and haven't had chance to
put parallels back but, what about this ...
a {
background: black;
}
a:hover {
padding: 5px;
}
a:hover img {
margin: -0px -5px -10px -5px;
}
Hope it helps
Darren
2008/6/5 Olajide Olaolorun [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Please i need help in fixing this. If you go to
http://www.rockondude.net/index.php in the main content area, am
trying to
have it that the images dont have an a:hover effect. How do i
achieve this?
I've been messing around with it all day but nothing..
--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
RoD: http://www.rockondude.net
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz
***
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--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
RoD: http://www.rockondude.net
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz
--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
RoD: http://www.rockondude.net
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz
--
Best Regards,
Olajide Olaolorun
###
Personal: http://www.olajideolaolorun.com
RoD: http://www.rockondude.net
Business: http://www.tripleo.biz
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maybe you could contact each other directly instead of bombarding the
list/group with all these e-mails? 30 in my inbox and counting?
tml
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Re: [WSG] Marking up company logo
My 2 pence ... titlePage title - Site title/title div id=brand pimg alt=Site title ... //p /div div id=content h1Page Title/h1 ... /div div id=search h1Search/h1 form ... /div div id=nav h1Navigation/h1 ul ... /div 2008/6/3 Rick Lecoat [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 3 Jun 2008, at 07:04, Matijs wrote: How about: titleThe Times/title h1Homepage/h1 h2There's water on mars/h2 titleThe Times/title h1Financial stuff/h1 h2Redmond stock going down further/h2 etc... Where would one fit in a company logo? Wouldn't a background image be best? And if so, where? My understanding of the title tag is that it is the title of the page, not the name of the site, and ideally every page should have a different title (at least from an SEO point of view) appropriate to its content -- so the above examples are not ideal IMHO. Re. logos as background images, that leaves anyone viewing the page without styles turned on out in the cold as far as seeing the company logo is concerned. Dan Cederholm uses a method whereby the logo is both a background image *and* a regular img tag, depending on whether you have styles on or off. That's my preferred technique. I just put the logo image in a div id=logo and keep the H1 for the page's own title. -- Rick Lecoat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Marking up company logo
I do feel this is all rather subjective and depends on what you're building, that is until you consider SEO; which I feel flies in the face of Web Standards 2008/6/3 Stewart Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED]: For the title you should really switch it around so that it is more specific to the page, and will be much better for SEO purposes. titlePage title - Section Title - Site title/title For the Logo h1 aspect, I would personally use the gilder/levin image replacement technique, using within this the Page title - Section Title - Site title combination within a h1 tag. This way you get a fancy logo, plus the benefits of you keyword rich Page title - Section Title - Site title combination to help boost your on-site SEO. Stew 2008/6/3 Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]: To throw another question in here, should the page title therefore be different to the main heading of the page? I thought the content in the page title should be as specific as possible for SEO, including the heirarchy? So, for example titleSite title - Section Title - Page title/title And h1Page title, section title or Logo?/h1 Once you have it in the title tag, does it matter whether you have the logo in a H1 or not? Should you have something different between the title and main heading? Cheers 2008/6/3 Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED]: My 2 pence ... titlePage title - Site title/title div id=brand pimg alt=Site title ... //p /div div id=content h1Page Title/h1 ... /div div id=search h1Search/h1 form ... /div div id=nav h1Navigation/h1 ul ... /div 2008/6/3 Rick Lecoat [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 3 Jun 2008, at 07:04, Matijs wrote: How about: titleThe Times/title h1Homepage/h1 h2There's water on mars/h2 titleThe Times/title h1Financial stuff/h1 h2Redmond stock going down further/h2 etc... Where would one fit in a company logo? Wouldn't a background image be best? And if so, where? My understanding of the title tag is that it is the title of the page, not the name of the site, and ideally every page should have a different title (at least from an SEO point of view) appropriate to its content -- so the above examples are not ideal IMHO. Re. logos as background images, that leaves anyone viewing the page without styles turned on out in the cold as far as seeing the company logo is concerned. Dan Cederholm uses a method whereby the logo is both a background image *and* a regular img tag, depending on whether you have styles on or off. That's my preferred technique. I just put the logo image in a div id=logo and keep the H1 for the page's own title. -- Rick Lecoat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Marking up company logo
To be clear, my statement, which was quite sweeping, was meant to express that when a site is built for computers as opposed to humans then that to me flies in the face of Web Standards. So I agree :-) 2008/6/3 Rick Lecoat [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 3 Jun 2008, at 12:55, Darren West wrote: I do feel this is all rather subjective and depends on what you're building, that is until you consider SEO; which I feel flies in the face of Web Standards I agree that much of this stuff is, inevitably, subjective. Web standards gives us a good framework to work to, but within that there are always numerous ways to skin the same cat (yes, it's a very unlucky cat). Re. SEO, I think that it can work just fine alongside web standards -- in moderation; as soon as you get too SEO-crazed you risk starting to erode the web standards 'purity' (if that doesn't sound too fascist) in order to accommodate some pro-Google trick or another. The root of Google's webmaster guidelines can be summarised as just create your page for humans to read without difficulty and don't obsess about trying to manipulate our search engine, and really that's not so far from web standards, is it? -- Rick Lecoat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute
Seems like a good idea, any implications? 2008/5/28 Rick Lecoat [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 28 May 2008, at 11:31, Gunlaug Sørtun wrote: Me too. IE/win shows title-text on images when such exists, otherwise it shows the alt-text if such exists. For this reason I quite often use a null-value title attribute alongside filled-in alt text, simply because I don't *want* tooltips in my pages. This means that the alt text is there for those who need/want it, but image-savvy users aren't pestered by yellow text boxes popping up every time they happen to mouse over an image. Is this (eg: img src=bb.jpg alt=Big Ben clocktower in London title= / something that the panel would condone or condemn? -- Rick Lecoat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute
There is the argument that you are changing the behaviour of IE, however wrong it is, it could be what users expect. I believe Jaws ignores empty attributes so all good there ... 2008/5/28 Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Seems like a good idea, any implications? 2008/5/28 Rick Lecoat [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 28 May 2008, at 11:31, Gunlaug Sørtun wrote: Me too. IE/win shows title-text on images when such exists, otherwise it shows the alt-text if such exists. For this reason I quite often use a null-value title attribute alongside filled-in alt text, simply because I don't *want* tooltips in my pages. This means that the alt text is there for those who need/want it, but image-savvy users aren't pestered by yellow text boxes popping up every time they happen to mouse over an image. Is this (eg: img src=bb.jpg alt=Big Ben clocktower in London title= / something that the panel would condone or condemn? -- Rick Lecoat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute
Rick Lecoat wrote: I agree that that's an argument. But the counter-argument, to my mind, is that I'm *correcting* the behaviour of IE through markup and css (well, ok, not css in this case) to bring it into line with standards compliant browsers, which is what we, ad web designers/developers regularly do when working around the old IE box model, etc. I agree. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute
Rick, what email client are you using? how do you get the 'on 28 may darren wrote ...' and the border-left on the quote? Cheers Darren 2008/5/28 Rick Lecoat [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 28 May 2008, at 12:53, Darren West wrote: There is the argument that you are changing the behaviour of IE, however wrong it is, it could be what users expect. I agree that that's an argument. But the counter-argument, to my mind, is that I'm *correcting* the behaviour of IE through markup and css (well, ok, not css in this case) to bring it into line with standards compliant browsers, which is what we, ad web designers/developers regularly do when working around the old IE box model, etc. I don't want my alt text showing up as tooltips in IE, period, so tweaking the markup to correct IE's implementation would appear to be the logical choice, especially since it does not break the semantics of the page. On the other hand, I would be interested to hear of any problems that my method creates for screen readers. -- Rick Lecoat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute
ahhh hahaha thats brilliant!! Tom said: How about a real 'attributes for dummies' reference?? are you writing a book? 2008/5/28 Tom Livingston [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 6:57 PM, Andrew Maben [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 27, 2008, at 3:43 PM, Andrew Freedman wrote: kate provided the following information on 28/05/2008 5:21 AM: The alt tag which is'nt really the right discription is really called the attribute tag. Kate Patrick H. Lauke also provided the following information on 28/05/2008 5:33 AM: or...the alt attribute, if you want to correct people... That's all well and good and I for one thank you for clarifying that but how does that answer Tom's query? Andrew. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Really! Is there anyone on this list who doesn't understand the distinction between 'tag' and 'attribute'. And does anyone seriously not understand what is meant when reference is made to the 'alt tag', or to HTML 'code' rather than 'markup'? I would certainly agree that in the context of a lecture on the subject these distinctions are important. But in the context of discussions on this list I think this is taking semantic hair-splitting to unwarranted extremes, especially if, as Andrew points out, it doesn't accompany some effort to respond to the question at hand. I move that henceforth it should be acceptable here to use 'tag' as shorthand for 'attribute' and 'code' for 'markup'. Andrew May I also note that in my original question, I never used the term 'alt tag' in the first place. Thanks to those with the helpful replies... -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Alt versus Title Attribute
I'm not sure exactly what the spec says, go read it, but alt stands for alternative so the content would be represented alternatively when say the other content was unavailble. Where as title is meant to provide additional information related to the content such as a title. So img src=whatever.jpg alt=whatever title=a piss take / 2008/5/27 Tom Livingston [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello list, I know this might seem basic, and I searched, but came up confused... Can anyone give me a clear example/explanation of the difference between the alt attribute and the title attribute? How about a real 'attributes for dummies' reference?? The difference seems very slight to me... Thanks -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Conact Form!
No action attribute on the form? 2008/5/15 james [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi All; On my contact page i have used this code, however it comes back as not being valid XHTML 1.0 Transitional, am i missing something silly here? form label for=userName/label input type=text id=user value= /br / label for=companyCompany:/label input type=text id=company value= /br / label for=emailaddressEmail Address:/label input type=text id=emailaddress value= /br / label for=commentsComments:/label textarea name=comments /textarea br / input type=submit id=submitbutton value=Submit / /form Thanks James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] The Problem of adjacent links
The reason for putting the character there in the first place is explicitly to help screen-reader users distinguish between links. It is my understanding that the fact that they are seperate links is what distinguishes between links ... Screen-reader users have said that the vertical bar is THEIR preferred character (even though this means repeating vertical bar) since it is not used for anything else and can't be confused. Prefered to a list? 2008/5/9 Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The reason for putting the character there in the first place is explicitly to help screen-reader users distinguish between links. Screen-reader users have said that the vertical bar is THEIR preferred character (even though this means repeating vertical bar) since it is not used for anything else and can't be confused. Border is, of course, purely presentational and of no use whatsoever to screen-readers and, therefore, does not fulfill accessibility requirements. On Fri, May 9, 2008 7:31 am, Jens-Uwe Korff wrote: The most common separator used in such circumstances ... is the vertical bar...whilst it is quite wordy That's the reason why I've started *not* to use it anymore. I'm using borders instead and add the class last to the last list element to apply no borders at all. Whilst a border is slightly higher than a vertical bar it avoids screenreaders to go home vertical bar latest posts vertical bar contact us vertical bar sitemap vertical bar Cheers, Jens The information contained in this e-mail message and any accompanying files is or may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, dissemination, reliance, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail or any attached files is unauthorised. This e-mail is subject to copyright. No part of it should be reproduced, adapted or communicated without the written consent of the copyright owner. If you have received this e-mail in error please advise the sender immediately by return e-mail or telephone and delete all copies. Fairfax does not guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in this e-mail or attached files. Internet communications are not secure, therefore Fairfax does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message or attached files. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Page Structure
You can use more than one h1 Darren. On 27/06/07, Web Man Walking [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello I am about to start a new website and was given some advice by a SEO expert who says the h1 on the page should be the most relevant thing to the page. For example for a Sports Packages company I design the website for they have: Company Name Tagline Page Content Which in my instance is: Glory Days tickets, accommodation travel packages for major events throughout the uk, europe and worldwide Rugby World Cup 2007 Packages How should this be marked up: h1Glory Days/h1 h2tickets, accommodation travel packages for major events throughout the uk, europe and worldwide/h2 h3Rugby World Cup 2007 Packages/h3 However the Rugby World Cup 2007 is the actual page content, they say that should be the h1 does anyone have a better suggestion as to how to deal with this common problem? Regards Ed Henderson Web Man Walking - web design usability experts t: 0131 669 8800 m: 0781 253 6964 f: 0797 062 1532 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: web-man-walking.com a: 48 Eastfield, Edinburgh, EH15 2PN skype: webmanwalking msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] New technology, old fashioned service *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] A list of images with text under each image
I would probably use something like this ... (with h replaced with the level heading required) ul li ha href=img src= alt=/a/h ul lia href=View/a/li lia href=Buy/a/li /ul /li li ha href=img src= alt=/a/h ul lia href=View/a/li lia href=Buy/a/li /ul /li /ul Darren. On 26/06/07, Jamie Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good Day All. This is not really a 'How To' post, but instead, id like to know your views on possible ways of marking up the images with links under each image, example : http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/1346/galltr8.gif (A rough mock-up sent to me by the client) Usually i would do either: dl dta href= title=img src= alt=/a/dt dda href= title=View/a/dd dda href= title=Buy/a/dd /dl A ul would seem like a mess when adding the View and Buy links. But the thing that worries me is that this does not show good use of a Def. List because the image isn't exactly a Def. Term and the View and Buy arn't exactly Def. Descriptions are they? I could also think of other ways to do the same thing, by placing a span inside a li and using the span as a container for the image and the links but again, it gets a bit messy, messy mark-up is the last thing i want. Any thoughts on the matter greatly appreciated. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: Accessible auto-submit dropdowns [WAS: Re: [WSG] WCAG Samurai Errata]
Maybe then a tip could be added to explain that functionality
something like:
p title=tipAlt+Demo Arrow to open select spanTurn off
tooltips/span/p
select
Darren
On 09/06/07, Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Internet Explorer users can use Alt+Down Arrow to open the SELECT element
and then use the arrow keys to navigate within it without triggering the
onChange event. One of our JAWS users does this as a matter of course for
every combobox because he cannot know if they have an onChange event
attached or not. However, I suspect that most people will not know that you
can do this even if they routinely use keyboard navigation.
Steve
--
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On
Behalf Of *Sander Aarts
*Sent:* 09 June 2007 05:30
*To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
*Subject:* Accessible auto-submit dropdowns [WAS: Re: [WSG] WCAG Samurai
Errata]
Matthew Pennell schreef:
On 08/06/07, Lea de Groot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, 8 Jun 2007 07:27:46 +0100, Matthew Pennell wrote:
Auto-submitting dropdowns are not usable by keyboard users.
More information, please? :)
Auto-submit dropdowns mostly work by triggering the onchange event of the
SELECT element. This is fired when you select a different OPTION using a
mouse - however, if you are using a keyboard, it is fired when you press the
down arrow to move through the list. You therefore can't select anything but
the first OPTION, as it triggers the onchange event and submits the form.
In Firefox you can use your keyboard in such case, but at least IE and
Opera will submit on the first option.
I've tried to write a script that offers auto submit, but still enables
keyboard navigation. When a keyboard is used the submit is triggered on
blur. In Opera hitting 'enter' can be used as well to submit as this is the
browsers normal behaviour (in IE and Firefox hitting 'enter' only submits
the form if the focus is on an input).
Here it is (autoSubmit() needs to be called on load):
function autoSubmit() {
if (!document.getElementById) return;
var selectNav = document.getElementById('selectNav');
if (!selectNav) return
selectNav.onfocus = function() {
this.origVal = this.value;
}
selectNav.onchange = function() {
if (this.newVal) this.origVal = this.newVal;
this.newVal = this.value;
}
selectNav.onblur = selectNav.onclick = function() {
if (this.newVal this.newVal != this.origVal) {
this.form.submit();
}
}
}
form
select name=selectNav id=selectNav
option value=/option
option value=1one/option
option value=2two/option
option value=3three/option
/select
form
I briefly tested it in IE7, Fx2 and Op9, so it may need some tweaking for
other browser. In real life there should (initially) be a submit button as
well of course to grant access for those who have disabled JavaScript.
Hopefully it is usefull to someone.
cheers,
Sander
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Re: [WSG] Screen reader friendly show/hide dhtml
Hi Rebecca, Screen readers handling of JavaScript events are a real pain as not only do different screen readers handle HTML and CSS differently but this is also true of their handling of JavaScript. Typically as no content should be inaccessible without JS if you must hide content from a sighted user do so with absolutley positioning the element of screen rather than using display none. With regards to the show hide cookie, if you place the links offscreen using the method described above and then position back within the page view on focus then once a person tabs through the anchor list the links show. This is also usefull when providing partially sighted users visual ques onscreen. The JavaScript Anthology by James Edwards http://www.sitepoint.com/books/jsant1/ has a nice chapter on this subject and The Juicy Studio Blog also many informative posts http://juicystudio.com/index.php. Kind Regards Darren On 05/03/07, Rebecca Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I've got a couple of questions regarding DHTML and how to ensure content is accessible usable via screen reader. Say you have a web page with a link to Subscribe to updates - when the user hovers on the link, a form would be displayed below (standard dhtml show/hide). The form would be in the HTML source on page load, hidden using CSS. My questions on this are: 1. If we displayed the content on focus as well as on hover, would this make it screen reader usable? 2. Alternatively, we could make clicking on the link (rather than, or as well as, on focus) display the content and take you to it (ie use an anchor on the page). 2. Does reading out the link (for screen readers) give it focus? 3. If we had (at top of page, with the skip link) a facility to turn off the show/hide functionality, (using a cookie) would this be useful? If anyone has comments, suggestions etc they could pass on to me about this, it would be greatly appreciated:) Regards, Rebecca Cox SIGNIFY LIMITED :: the logic behind ph: +64 4 803-3211 | fax: +64 4 803-3241 http://www.signify.co.nz P.O. Box 24-068, Manners St, Wellington 250A Wakefield St, Wellington This communication, including any attachment, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete/destroy this communication; you may not read and must not copy, send on or retain any part of this communication. Please do not disclose to any third party anything about this communication. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] unobtrusive js help
You will find these books very helpful http://www.amazon.co.uk/DOM-Scripting-Design-JavaScript-Document/dp/1590595335/ref=pd_ka_1/202-6135156-2275021?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1172759335sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.co.uk/JavaScript-Anthology-Essential-Tricks-Hacks/dp/0975240269/ref=pd_ka_1/202-6135156-2275021?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1172759353sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.co.uk/JavaScript-Definitive-Guide-David-Flanagan/dp/0596101996/ref=pd_ka_1/202-6135156-2275021?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1172759366sr=8-1 Darren On 01/03/07, Mordechai Peller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bob Schwartz wrote: I am in the process of converting my javascript library to nonobtrusive js. Where could I go for help in converting these? Here, for one place. Can you be more specific about the problems? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] css generating i.e security pop up
This behaviour is by design, for security reasons when the script is sourced locally (ie. if you load the website and script from your local machine) you will see this alert; I don't get the message and neither will other visitors. On 28/02/07, kevin mcmonagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Im using the pure css - alphaimageloader hack for png transparency. The problem is that its setting of a security warning in ie 6. The pngs will only show up if you click ok and allow the script. How should i handle this? Is there anything i can do to make this less obtrusive? www.mcmonagle.biz/arena7 -best kevin mcmonagle *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Use of Enter key to naviagte between form fields
I would advise your client against this behaviour as it will not only cause user confusion but also conflicts with the default behaviour of the form. Darren On 27/02/07, Nick Roper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, A customer has requested that they should be able to navigate between input fields on a form by using the Enter key - i.e. to replicate the action of the Tab key. I've seen examples of Javascript code to do this, but I'd be interested in any feedback on whether there are any issues with this and what the best approach is to implement. Thanks, Nick -- Nick Roper partner logical elements *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Standards compliant slideshow
Hello, Can anyone please recommend a standards compliant slideshow script that uses a list of images within the HTML markup to dynamically create the show. Thanks Daz ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Standards compliant slideshow
Thats cool, thanks all, although I think I may have miss explained myself - will simplify with links :) Basically I am trying to setup pagination - here are the pages: http://ta.rt-ms.net/teamengine/property.html http://ta.rt-ms.net/teamengine/assets/js/media.js And is the markup: div id=photos class=media h2Photos/h2 pImage 1 of 10/p ul lia id=previous href=Previous Image/a/li lia id=next href=Next Image/a/li /ul pimg id=placeholder src=assets/img/bss1931.jpg width=400 height=300 //p pClick to replace image above/p p id=gallery a href=assets/img/bss1931.jpgimg src=assets/img/bss1931T.jpg width=160 height=120 //a a href=assets/img/bss1931A.jpgimg src=assets/img/bss1931AT.jpg width=160 height=120 //a a href=assets/img/bss1931B.jpgimg src=assets/img/bss1931BT.jpg width=160 height=120 //a a href=assets/img/bss1931C.jpgimg src=assets/img/bss1931CT.jpg width=160 height=120 //a a href=assets/img/bss1931D.jpgimg src=assets/img/bss1931DT.jpg width=160 height=120 //a a href=assets/img/bss1931E.jpgimg src=assets/img/bss1931ET.jpg width=160 height=120 //a /p pa href=Back to top/a/p /div I want to use an unobtrusive method utilising the next and previous IDs to page the anchors href attribute. Thanks again all, any ideas would be very welcome. Daz On 13/03/06, Peter Goddard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Try Eric Meyer's solution http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/s5/ Need I say More? Peter -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Stephenson Sent: 13 March 2006 15:01 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Standards compliant slideshow Can anyone please recommend a standards compliant slideshow script that uses a list of images within the HTML markup to dynamically create the show. http://slayeroffice.com/code/imageCrossFade/xfade2.html -- DonkeyMagic: Website design development http://www.donkeymagic.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Styling Fieldset and Legend Elements
I would advise against * html hacks though - http://www.webstandards.org/buzz/archive/2005_12.html#a000598Daz
On 07/03/06, Gunlaug Sørtun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Lachlan Hunt wrote: The following test case demonstrates how I want it to look and my current solution that works in Firefox.Both examples in the page should look roughly identical
http://lachy.id.au/dev/2006/03/fieldsetDon't know, but the following addition makes it look pretty ok in my IE6...* html legend {margin: 0 -6px; display: block;}
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Re: [WSG] DOM Scripting
Thanks Richard and Jesse for your earlier help, thats all working now. I hope you don't mind but I could do with your assistance again :-) I am now trying to clear the default value of a field (which works fine) and then restore the default value if there is no user input. The problem is I get the following error: Error: [Exception... 'Permission denied to get property XULElement.selectedIndex' when calling method: [nsIAutoCompletePopup::selectedIndex] nsresult: 0x8057001e (NS_ERROR_XPC_JS_THREW_STRING) location: JS frame :: http://ta.rt-ms.net/teamengine/assets/js/global.js :: anonymous :: line 10 data: no] Source File: http://ta.rt-ms.net/teamengine/assets/js/global.js Line: 10 The files are: http://ta.rt-ms.net/teamengine/home.html http://ta.rt-ms.net/teamengine/assets/js/global.js Thanks guys Daz On 02/03/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Hi Daz,The problem is, your form is being submitted. That's why it looks like it only highlights for a second.The easiest fix is to change to >validateForm(). The 'onclick' call itself needs to return false to stopthe submit. You may want to consider using the onsubmit event on the form instead.This would catch the form being submitted by users hitting Enter.You also might want to consider attaching the event completely in _javascript_ instead of as an attribute in the HTML. But this is up to you.Cheers,Jesse Skinnerhttp://www.thefutureoftheweb.com/ Hello All, I am slowly learning the DOM and _javascript_, and have started applying scripts for validation, the validation part works fine (I think) however the problem is I am trying to highlight fields which do not validate and they only highlight for a second (I think while the field is checked against a the regular _expression_). The pages are: http://ta.rt-ms.net/validate/emailagent.html http://ta.rt-ms.net/validate/assets/js/support.js Thanks Daz **The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help**
Re: [WSG] problem with border-bottom in mozilla/netscape
Is caused by applying the line-height to the body (http://www.positioniseverything.net/gecko/mozshift.html) DazOn 03/03/06, Soeren Mordhorst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mozilla and Netscape do not display border-bottom: 1px solid #bbb; inthe navigation-list in the 'li': Forums (first right box).Does anybody know why ?Link: http://www.webnauts.net/redesignBesides,Konqueror positions the legend-element too much to the left. For examplehe displays 'Training Academy' in the right box incorrect.I would also appreciate if you could have a look with some browsers and please let me know if you see any otherproblems on our page :)Thank you very much in advance !All the best,Soeren**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Validation problem
Hi Kim, You need to associate a label * with your select element. For instance: form id=selectform method=post action=action_script.php fieldset * label for=selectPlease choose/label select name=select option selected=selected label=vælg herVælg her/option optgroup label=Vælg farver option label=Sort/Grøn value=0Sort/Grøn /option option label=Hvid/Blå value=21Hvid/Blå/option /optgroup optgroup label=Tastatur option label=Sæt accesskeys value=accesskeysSæt accesskeys/option /optgroup /select br / input type=submit name=submit value=Skrift/ /fieldset /form Substituting 'Please choose' with something indicative of the select elements choices. Daz On 01/03/06, Kim Kruse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I run this site http://mouseriders.dk/index.php through Cynthia validator (level 1,2,3) it fails Priority 2 - forms 12.4.3 and I just can't figure out why. Could someone please explain it to me? Thanks a lot -- Med venlig hilsen/Best regards Kim Kruse - http://www.mouseriders.dk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Validation problem
Opps, and associated the label with and id. For instance: label for=selectPlease choose/label select name=select id=select Daz On 01/03/06, Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kim, You need to associate a label * with your select element. For instance: form id=selectform method=post action=action_script.php fieldset * label for=selectPlease choose/label select name=select option selected=selected label=vælg herVælg her/option optgroup label=Vælg farver option label=Sort/Grøn value=0Sort/Grøn /option option label=Hvid/Blå value=21Hvid/Blå/option /optgroup optgroup label=Tastatur option label=Sæt accesskeys value=accesskeysSæt accesskeys/option /optgroup /select br / input type=submit name=submit value=Skrift/ /fieldset /form Substituting 'Please choose' with something indicative of the select elements choices. Daz On 01/03/06, Kim Kruse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I run this site http://mouseriders.dk/index.php through Cynthia validator (level 1,2,3) it fails Priority 2 - forms 12.4.3 and I just can't figure out why. Could someone please explain it to me? Thanks a lot -- Med venlig hilsen/Best regards Kim Kruse - http://www.mouseriders.dk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Online Store Categories
I would say thats a perfect use for a definition list. Daz On 28/02/06, Josh Rose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, I'm creating an online store for a client and they want a browseable list of the store categories, plus a small description of the category underneath each one. I was planning on using a definition list: dl dta href=#Category/a/dt ddCategory Description./dd /dl but would a table be more appropriate? Thanks, Josh. And yes, it will be searchable (in fact, I'm putting an advanced search box above the category list), it's just they think it's a good idea for the categories to be browseable as well. Yahoo! Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Linking to top of page
a href=#Back to Top/a On 27/02/06, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Novitski wrote: At 05:35 AM 2/27/2006, Curby wrote: What is the recommended way for linking back to the top of the page? I can't link to the id of my H1 because of my CSS. Whoa. Stop right there. How can CSS stop you from linking to an h1 that's got an id? It depends where the H1 is positioned. If it's not at the top, the page won't be scrolled to the top. -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Should logo not link to the homepage?
It definatly should, relax and think of home ;-) On 23/02/06, John S. Britsios [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear co-members, I would like to ask your opinion here, if a web site logo should or not link to the homepage. By the way, see for example what Jesper Tverskov wrote about this: http://www.smackthemouse.com/20040719 Thanks in advance for your kind responces. Kind regards, John S. Britsios http://www.webnauts.net --- Redesign in process: http://www.webnauts.net/redesign/ --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0608-0, 20.02.2006 Tested on: 23.02.2006 09:32:33 avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2006 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Min-Width, IE, Fluid Content and Hair Loss
If you werent worried about users without JavaScript enabled you could use this http://dean.edwards.name/IE7/, alternatively have a fixed size for IE. Daz On 24/02/06, Joseph R. B. Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings all, I'm working on getting a site launched - http://mcdowell.sitesbyjoe.com - and was hoping to make it completely fluid in all directions. One problem, IE (surprise!) I have a min-width applied to my wrapper div of 842px, and a width set to 95%. That way it doesn't squish up (in small resolutions) too much and force floats downward. Needless to day, it doesn't work on IE since it doesn't recognize min-width. I've tried various workarounds/ searches on this, setting a width of 842px in IE only etc... These techniques keep it from shrinking, but I lose the fluid expansion that works so nicely on everything else... Anyone have suggestions on this? Joseph R. B. Taylor Sites by Joe, LLC http://sitesbyjoe.com (609)335-3076 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Img element relationship to content
Hello all, If I have an image which has a relationship to other content within a containing element how should this be marked up. For instance: 1. div class=person h2Person A/h2 img src=person_a.jpg / ul liBig feet/li liSmall hands/li /ul /div 2. div class=person h2Person A/h2 pimg src=person_a.jpg //p ul liBig feet/li liSmall hands/li /ul /div 3. div class=person h2Person Abr / img src=person_a.jpg //h2 ul liBig feet/li liSmall hands/li /ul /div 4. div class=person h2Person A/h2 ul liimg src=person_a.jpg //li liBig feet/li liSmall hands/li /ul /div 4. None of the above - use DL instead! ;-) Thanks Daz ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] [admin] list mail turnaround
I too rarely get the start of most threads (although I got this one) Daz On 21/02/06, Felix Miata [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For quite some time I've had a problem with missed and late posts on this list. I've talked to my ISP, as I'm sure the SPAM volume they have to deal with contributes to the problem, but lately following threads here has been rather difficult. As example, early yesterday's Font Sizes - Best practice thread still isn't complete here. I have several responses to posts that never yet showed up here. AM responses from it were still arriving here late last night and this AM. I checked for it on the web site archive yesterday, but found that several days behind. In contrast, on the css-d list just a few minutes ago I replied to a thread post and included a screenshot link. Within 3 minutes of the timestamp of that post that screenshot URL was hit by 3 unique IPs, and as I'm writing this, I've seen 3 more. Are others outside AU and NZ seeing similar behavior from this list, but not so much trouble from other lists closer to home? -- Love your neighbor as yourself.Mark 12:31 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/auth ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Font size menu
Evening groupHas anyone got any suggestions as to how I would mark up a font size menu, for example:pFont size:/pol liA/li liA/li liA/li /olWith font sizes defined ever larger on the list items as a visual indication and the ordered list from an accessible unstyled point of view.Daz
Re: [WSG] Font size menu
Cheers Ted!Even as I read ;-)What are the browser issues with ol's? I would go and research but I gotta get this project out the door by Friday :-oAs an unordered list would it not loose meaning especially if I signfy the choices visually using the same letter A? I could always use em for the current choice. DazOn 15/02/06, Ted Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why an ordered list? Regardless of semantic purposes, you may come across some cross-browser compatibility issues if you are doing any kind of image replacement or background images. I would go with an unordered list as you don't need to go to the smallest size before getting to the medium and then largest size. Or… drum roll please…. Use my swiss army knife, the definition list Dt – font sizes Dd – small Dd – medium dd- large. It could happen! Ted www.tdrake.net From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Darren West Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:58 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Font size menu Evening group Has anyone got any suggestions as to how I would mark up a font size menu, for example: pFont size:/p ol liA/li liA/li liA/li /ol With font sizes defined ever larger on the list items as a visual indication and the ordered list from an accessible unstyled point of view. Daz
Re: [WSG] Font size menu
Thanks for the pointer :-)XHTML1.0 Strict, can I use smallbig? not come across them before.Had a go for the old definition list but it screws up my font sizes for some reason, I can feel a coffee coming on. Quick off topic question: is the census of opinion to lop off the quoted text or leave it to the email client?DazOn 15/02/06, Ted Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's been a while since I've messed with it. But as I remember, if you use list-style-type:none on an ol, you can get some odd positioning in IE6. Does anyone else remember this bug? Are you using html or xhtml? If html, wrap the a in smalla/small biga/big Personally, I don't like those tags but I know others do. You can then use CSS to define the look of those letters ted From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Darren West Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 2:38 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Font size menu Cheers Ted! Even as I read ;-) What are the browser issues with ol's? I would go and research but I gotta get this project out the door by Friday :-o As an unordered list would it not loose meaning especially if I signfy the choices visually using the same letter A? I could always use em for the current choice. Daz On 15/02/06, Ted Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why an ordered list? Regardless of semantic purposes, you may come across some cross-browser compatibility issues if you are doing any kind of image replacement or background images. I would go with an unordered list as you don't need to go to the smallest size before getting to the medium and then largest size. Or… drum roll please…. Use my swiss army knife, the definition list Dt – font sizes Dd – small Dd – medium dd- large. It could happen! Ted www.tdrake.net From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Darren West Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:58 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Font size menu Evening group Has anyone got any suggestions as to how I would mark up a font size menu, for example: pFont size:/p ol liA/li liA/li liA/li /ol With font sizes defined ever larger on the list items as a visual indication and the ordered list from an accessible unstyled point of view. Daz
Re: [WSG] list's with header text
I would use: ul id=nav-bananas li h3Buncrana Town/h3 ul lia href="" Directory/a/li lia href="" Directory/a/li /ul /li li h3Community/h3 ul lia href=""> lia href=""> /ul /li /ul Where 'bananas' is replaced with a semantically suitable name such as main for main navigation or supp for supplemental etc... I would use h3 as long as it fits in with the rest of your markup, for example h1 for page subject, h2 for content subjects on the current page, h3 for content subjects off page. Darren On 01/02/06, kvnmcwebn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi,for a vertical navigation bar with multiple headings like this: div class=navcontainer h3Buncrana Town/h3ul lia href="" Directory/a/li lia href="" Directory/a/li./ul h3Community/h3ul lia href="" lia href="">./ulso on... /divWhat is the proper heading to use(h1, h2, h3)?-best kvnmcwebn**The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help**
Re: [WSG] list's with header text
Exactly for that point; IMHO decribing the content rather than the presentation makes your markup easier to read, style and manage by whomever - users, coders, accessibility tools, browsers, search engines, and yourself, this is why web standards are so important. Some interesting reading on suggested markup guidelines can be found at http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk/archives/whats_in_a_name.html and http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk/archives/whats_in_a_name_pt2.html On 01/02/06, kvnmcwebn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ok thanks,just to clarify a point: what odds that the ul id have a semanticallysuitable name-beside making sense to people working in the code after me?-thanks againkvnmcewbn** The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help**
[WSG] Site Review
Hello all,Please can you review and give comment on the following:http://ta.rt-ms.net/2/properties.html http://ta.rt-ms.net/2/propertydetails.htmlThanks in advanceDarren
Re: [WSG] Site Review
Thanks Nathan,I have removed the strong elements and replaced them with a class for the price, I will have a think regarding the H3 as the context is already set and their is no other monetary data on screen. Do you have a recommended screen reader for testing?DazOn 30/01/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Darren, The markup look pretty slick! My only comment would be around your use of the strong element. For example: pProperty strong3/strong of strong500/strong found/p Have you ever heard a screen reader when it hits strong elements? For this reason I suggest just using a span and 'class' instead to create the bold visual effect - just a personal preference of mine!! Also, maybe for the price you could doing this to improve accessibility. For example, you have: pstrong£450,000/strong/p whereas you can create the same effect visually, but improve (in my opinion) semantics and accessibility by doing something like: h3 class=hidePrice/h3 p class=price£450,000/p Anyway, my suggestions are neither here nore there and probably more about my our personal preferences more than anything else. Cheers Nathan - Original Message - From: Darren West To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 10:26 PM Subject: [WSG] Site Review Hello all,Please can you review and give comment on the following:http://ta.rt-ms.net/2/properties.html http://ta.rt-ms.net/2/propertydetails.htmlThanks in advanceDarren
Re: [WSG] Site Review
Thanks Martin,I have sorted all issues highlighted apart from the DL for the address as only one item will ever appear - would DL still be appropriate? and microformats leave with me.Daz On 30/01/06, Martin Heiden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Darren,on Monday, January 30, 2006 at 12:26 wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: http://ta.rt-ms.net/2/properties.html http://ta.rt-ms.net/2/propertydetails.htmlYou've got some problems in your HTML:1. with/height attributes of img tags don't accept units. 2. the inputs need name attributes (but I guess you will add these later)You should provide some alt-Text for the images of the properties.A page title would be nice ;-)Maybe you should wrap the ie7 script in a conditional comment for only IE using it.The use of strong in:pImage strong1/strong of strong10/strong/pisn't very semantic IMHO, but substituting it by span doesn't add much value too.For the address I'd use a definition list:dl id=agentdtAcme Estate Agents/dtddThe White House/Lodge Road/dd ddNW4 4DD/Tel: 0208 457 4777/Fax: 0208 457 4765/a href="" Agent/a/dd/dl instead of:div id=agenth2Acme Estate Agents/h2pThe White Housebr /Lodge Roadbr /Londonbr / NW4 4DD/ppTel: 0208 457 4777/ppFax: 0208 457 4765/ppa href="" Agent/a/p /divYou could also add some classes for defining the microformat.regardsMartin**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Review
How about the list of class 'properties', should that be an un-ordered list?DazOn 30/01/06, Stephen Stagg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Should an agent's address really be a definition list?? If you want that sort of semantic pedantry, the markup should be:block taghxAcme Estate Agents/hxdldtAddress/dtddThe...Housebr/ Lodge Roa...4DD/dddtTelephone/dtdd0208 457 4777/dd.../dl/block tagI DO think that definition lists are over used and often misused. They should really only be used for concise definitions.An list ofuntitled contact details does not constitute a concise definition ofan agent.Otherwise, the idea of web data becoming machine-readableis defeated. StephenOn 30 Jan 2006, at 11:48, Martin Heiden wrote: Darren, on Monday, January 30, 2006 at 12:26 wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: http://ta.rt-ms.net/2/properties.html http://ta.rt-ms.net/2/propertydetails.html You've got some problems in your HTML: 1. with/height attributes of img tags don't accept units. 2. the inputs need name attributes (but I guess you will add theselater) You should provide some alt-Text for the images of the properties. A page title would be nice ;-) Maybe you should wrap the ie7 script in a conditional comment for only IE using it. The use of strong in: pImage strong1/strong of strong10/strong/p isn't very semantic IMHO, but substituting it by span doesn't add much value too. For the address I'd use a definition list: dl id=agent dtAcme Estate Agents/dt ddThe White House/dd ddLodge Road/dd ddNW4 4DD/dd ddTel: 0208 457 4777/dd ddFax: 0208 457 4765/dd dda href="" Email Agent/a/dd /dl instead of: div id=agent h2Acme Estate Agents/h2 pThe White Housebr / Lodge Roadbr / Londonbr / NW4 4DD/p pTel: 0208 457 4777/p pFax: 0208 457 4765/p pa href="" contactagent.htmlEmail Agent/a/p /div You could also add some classes for defining the microformat. regards Martin ** The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help**
