Re: [WSG] which tag to use for link to reference?
On 30 Jun 2012, at 11:04, tee wrote: I thought maybe I can use hyperlink for monolithic instead of adding 3 (which will be directed to Appendix), but this often is not desirable because in other sections of paragraphs where citations are used, there aren't alway clear sentences to hyperlink. A hyperlink (to an aside) is the closest thing HTML has AFAIK. This is for an ebook project, it's different from the webpage, and the readers are more accustom to the footnotes, but footnote doesn't work for ebook format, because devices' sizes vary, and portrait vs landscape view affects text flow too so strictly speaking there isn't pagination. The example syntax given in the EPUB specification[1] is: html … xmlns:epub=http://www.idpf.org/2007/ops; … p … a epub:type=noteref href=#n11/a … /p … aside epub:type=footnote id=n1 … /aside … /html [1] http://idpf.org/epub -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] More on forms
On 19 May 2012, at 10:04, coder wrote:
var re = new RegExp('[\?\\[\\]]', 'g');
What I'm asking now is, is there an equivalent function using words instead
of characters?
In a regular expression bar will match bar while [bar] will match b or
a or r. Just don't use the square brackets.
(You should also use regular expression literals ( /bar/ instead of new
RegExp(bar) ) as they avoid having to escape things for regex and then escape
them again for the string.)
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Re: [WSG] list heading – best practice?
On 2 Mar 2012, at 17:07, Hanspeter Kadel wrote: looks like back in 1984 people could use LH for the job. No, they couldn't. It was proposed for HTML 3, but that spec was ditched in favour of documenting the then current state of the browser wars. how to do it in 2012? h? before the list. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Best Practice - Content Within Tables
On 12 Oct 2011, at 20:58, Lapcewich, Dennis wrote: Is it a best practice to wrap content in a table cell using p tags? It is best practise to wrap paragraphs in a P element. If you have paragraphs in your table data (which is relatively rare, but still possible), then you should use P elements. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] a:link behaviors issues
On 29 Jul 2011, at 14:14, Oliver Boermans wrote: Mathew is asking the pertinent question. There are five pseudo selectors to consider on links: :link :visited :focus :hover :active By applying the font attributes to link and visited you leave the others undefined. A link doesn't stop being a link just because it is a hovered, focused or active link. :link and :visited are mutually exclusive (since :link means unvisited link) but the other pseudo-classes stack (with them and each other). The only time you need to worry about focus/hover/active applying when link/visited don't is when you have a non-linked anchor (which you shouldn't have these days since `id` on a heading or div/section/etc makes more sense). -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] HTML5 and invalid meta tags
On 26 Jul 2011, at 11:12, designer wrote: I notice that some meta tags (like copyright) are invalid html5. The validator complains of a 'bad value'. I've searched for this and indeed found refs to others having the same problem, but I didn't find anything which details the change as such, or indeed why. Is it real, or do I just ignore it as a blip? Anyone know what's going on? http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/semantics.html#standard-metadata-names I love this bit, it makes having the restriction feel so worthwhile: Extensions to the predefined set of metadata names may be registered in the WHATWG Wiki MetaExtensions page. [WHATWGWIKI] Anyone is free to edit the WHATWG Wiki MetaExtensions page at any time to add a type. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Breaking validation using noscript - Is there a solution?
On 14 Jul 2011, at 16:50, Chad Kelly wrote: Just on the noscript tag, isn't it meant to be used within the JS itself No. script elements aren't allowed any child elements. and I am quite sure it is deprecated. It isn't. I recommend against it because it is a binary check and progressive enhancement[1] is a better approach, but it isn't deprecated Which means you would need to use a transitional doctype. The relationship between Appears in transitional but not string and is deprecated is not 1:1. [1] http://icant.co.uk/articles/pragmatic-progressive-enhancement/ -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Modal/Lightbox Code
On 17 May 2011, at 17:05, Carl Heaton wrote: You are mainly looking for CSS3 type things as full accessibility means no Javascript. No, it doesn't. Start with something that provides access to all the content with plain HTML. Apply JavaScript over the top of it to provide an enhanced experience. Make sure that the JS doesn't introduce problems for users of screen readers, screen magnifiers, non-pointer based input devices, etc and you are accessible. You have to check the same things with CSS based solutions too. I've seen plenty of :hover based interfaces that have no keyboard fallback. Take the second item on the list on the page you pointed to, for instance. When I focus the Clickbox Gallery link, a photo unexpectedly and jarringly pops up. I haven't found a way to navigate to the next/prev links that appear when I use a mouse, or found any other way to get access to the other images. So, despite being CSS 3 based and without JavaScript, a cursory glance at it leads me to conclude that it is highly inaccessible. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Title tags - site name then keywords?
On 19 Apr 2011, at 20:30, Stevio wrote: When it comes to search engine optimisation, Stop. Build sites for people, not robots. Search engines are optimising to find the best sites for people, aim for the same target as they are. are you better to list the site name/business name first in the title tag, and then keywords, or the other way round? Specific title first. If the visitor has multiple pages from your site open in tabs, then they will be indistinguishable with the generic bit first. e.g. ABC Engineering Ltd - Steel Fabrication, Pipework, Welding or Steel Fabrication, Pipework, Welding - ABC Engineering Ltd And put titles in the title element, not a list of keywords. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Need to access parent content from iframe
On 5 Apr 2011, at 10:52, Mahendran Venkatesan wrote: In my website, I have a requirement like the iframe js should access the form fields of parent window. I tried with window.parent.document.forms, but it is not working. Is there any possibility to access the parent window content from iframe js? p.s. The iframe and parent window are different domain. The js file resides in iframe. No. https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Same_origin_policy_for_JavaScript -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Need to access parent content from iframe
On 5 Apr 2011, at 11:55, Mahendran Venkatesan wrote: I thought the policy is applicable only for accessing the content from parent window to iframe. So, the access permission in both ways is not possible. It applies to all cross origin communication - XHR, frames, etc, etc. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Need to access parent content from iframe
On 5 Apr 2011, at 11:48, Elankeeran / இளங்கீரன் V wrote: if both the page are in different domain and if your owning both page then you can add below line in the top of your both page window.domain=yourdomainname; From: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/document.domain In the DOM HTML specification, this property is listed as being read-only. So you shouldn't be able to do that. However, Mozilla will let you set it to a superdomain of the current value, constrained by its base domain. For example, on developer.mozilla.org it is possible to set it to mozilla.org but not mozilla.com or org. So you can, but only in non-standard and very limited ways. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] why :first-child pseudo-class doesn't work for some selectors/elements?
Because those elements are not the first child element in their respective
containers.
On 6 Mar 2011, at 10:03, tee wrote:
http://jsbin.com/apate4/9/
dt, dd { border-top:1px solid #555;float:left }
dt:first-child {border-top:0}
dd:first-child {border-top:0}
!-- Container -- dl
!-- 1st Child -- dttest/dt
!-- 2nd Child -- ddThere should be no border top here/dd
Since the dd is not the first child, a selector using :first-child won't
apply.
h2, p {background:#ddd;padding:15px;margin:5px}
h2:first-child,p:first-child {background:#95B26B} p/s. I tried declared the
two individually as I thought maybe they can't be grouped, but it makes no
differences.
!-- Container -- body
!-- 1st Child -- dl ... /dl
!-- 2nd Child -- h2Heading 2 this is the first-child and the bg color
should be in Olive./h2
Ditto.
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Re: [WSG] HTML5 v. HTML 4.x
On 25 Jan 2011, at 08:34, Steve Green wrote: You can use it, but will anyone benefit from it? Assistive technologies don't support much, if any, of the new semantics. I don't know if search engines and other users of programmatic access to websites are currently able to make use of HTML5 markup, but I have not seen anything to indicate that they do. So what exactly is the benefit? It saves having to rewrite the site when AT, SEs, etc do have significant support for them. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] To marquee or not to marquee here is the question!!! [SEC=UNOFFICIAL]
On 19 Jan 2011, at 01:43, David Bromage wrote: marquee is non-standard and deprecated. It can't be both. It is not valid HTML 'tis. Sadly. (So long as you accept drafts) http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/obsolete.html#the-marquee-element and is not supported by all browsers. Yes, well, nor is abbr. I don't like marquee, but the only argument I have against it (when the alternative is JavaScript to achieve the same effect) is that it is purely presentational and therefore doesn't belong in markup. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Default style declaration?
On 14 Jan 2011, at 18:40, Richard R. Hill wrote: Yet, the W3C validation tolls never flag a missing default CSS language declaration as an issue when validation XHTML. The W3C Validation Service is a generic SGML/XML validator, not an HTML conformance checker. It doesn't check for things that are not expressed in the DTD (which this isn't, and couldn't be). Should we make sure our pages declare the default CSS type as we do for Javascript? If you use style attributes (which you shouldn't) or fiddle the style.* properties with JavaScript (which you shouldn't unless you need to deal with a wide range of values, such as when you are animating), then the spec requires that you do so. (Although this will, IIRC, change for (X)HTML 5). Like: META http-equiv=Content-Style-Type content=text/css meta http-equiv=Content-Style-Type content=text/css / since you said XHTML. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Fixed-position menus?
On 23 Nov 2010, at 21:05, cat soul wrote: Here is a link illustrating what I mean: http://thinkplan.org/menupersist.jpg What are peoples' thoughts on this kind of menu? It eats valuable vertical screen real estate (very important in these days of widescreen netbook computers) and breaks linking to fragment identifiers in the document (#foo - div id=foo). If the user wants to get back to the menu, it is not a great hardship to scroll back up or hit the home key. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Touch screens
On 15 Nov 2010, at 19:10, designer wrote: Do any of you guys have experience with touch screen designing? I looked at an iPAD today, with a view to buying, and I was horrified when I looked at a site of mine that used a spry dropdown menu. Never heard of it. I'm going to assume it depends on hover events (rather that click events) It worked sometimes and not others. Is that the norm? - do I have to redesign? If so, what's the best way? Touch screens and hover effects don't mix well. The iPad tries to guess which hover effects are important and move them to touch events, but it is imperfect. AFAIK, explicitly duplicating the hover events in touch events will give you decent control. That said, using hovers isn't a good idea for triggering menus in the first place. http://www.cennydd.co.uk/2010/end-hover-abuse-now/ sums up the problems quite nicely. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] accessible screen reader cms
On 16 Nov 2010, at 01:28, Marvin Hunkin wrote: tried using wamp server 2.0 and xampp and now trying to install word press 3.0. and get a error saying php is not turned on. what is the easiest and screen reader cms to use While there are quite a few people who care enough about accessibility to check that the content they produce is accessible, far fewer have any experience with accessible admin interfaces for the tools they use. You might be better off in a more specialised forum. The WAI Interest Group http://www.w3.org/WAI/IG/ or Authoring Tool Accessibility Guidelines Working Group http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/Overview.html might be able to offer more useful advise than a general web development mailing list (but please lurk and read their content for a while before diving in to make sure they ARE appropriate). , and do i just do away with wamp or xammp, and maybe go with php. WAMP and XAMMP are just ways to get PHP bundled with a while of other software that you need or might need for web development. If you struggle with those tools, then I expect trying to do manually everything that they do for you would be even more difficult. So I would suggest you stick with the tools you have and try to get some advice on the specific problems you are experiencing. where to get php from and which version. http://php.net/ — 5.3.3 is the latest stable version. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] css
On 15 Nov 2010, at 06:18, PurencoolGmail wrote:
I have an issue with this menu it works fine but the client has asked when
you hover over
Shame: http://www.cennydd.co.uk/2010/end-hover-abuse-now/
top menu that the sub menu becomes visible and the stays there until you
hover over than
part of the top menu. If I was to move the mouse anywhere on the screen the
menu sub menu
will stay visible.
I was thinking hover a {display:block} any help would be appreciated. But I
am not sure how to
do this in css.
If you are going to do this, then do it in JavaScript.
While it is clever to make content appear and disappear in CSS, JavaScript is
much better suited to this type of task.
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Re: [WSG] XHTML or HTML?
On 11 Nov 2010, at 09:18, Chris Taylor wrote: HTML5 as a finished, published spec may be 10 years off, but there are plenty of HTML5 features you can use right now with some careful handling of older (IE) browsers. The future is already among us. In fact, this is HTML5-style - !doctype html - but will work fine in all browsers (as far as I know). As far as browsers are concerned, it is will act no differently to HTML 4.01 Strict (or a number of other Doctypes). When you come to perform basic QA using a validator, on the other hand, you get very different results. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] XHTML or HTML?
On 11 Nov 2010, at 10:50, Chris Taylor wrote: From: David Dorward Sent: 11 November 2010 10:30 On 11 Nov 2010, at 09:18, Chris Taylor wrote: In fact, this is HTML5-style - !doctype html - but will work fine in all browsers (as far as I know). When you come to perform basic QA using a validator, on the other hand, you get very different results. Agreed, and it is a problem, but how much of that problem is validators not being updated? To be honest, if that's the only error I get from a validator I'd feel I was doing a decent job. The crux is, as it has always been, what actually happens in browsers themselves. Error? I wasn't suggesting that a validator would complain about the Doctype. It will either fail to recognise it (and thus refuse to do any validation) or it will trigger HTML5 validation. This isn't built on HTML 4.01 validation since HTML 5 is not an SGML application. The result is that you get a completely different validation engine — one that isn't mature and is still trying to track a moving target. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] XHTML or HTML?
On 10 Nov 2010, at 22:34, cat soul wrote: Any thoughts on which we ought to be using HTML, since it works in IE 9 without having to pretend it is HTML. 4.01, since it is a stable recommendation with mature QA tools (unless you have a need for features added in HTML5 and are willing to life on the bleeding edge) Strict, unless you need something only offered by Transitional (in which case think twice as not being in Strict is a clue that you probably shouldn't use something). , and what information ought to be up at top of an HTML page, along with !DOCTYPE, etc? Title is mandatory. Meta charset if you think people are more likely to view a locally saved copy of the document than a copy that has gone through a transcoding proxy. Links to any stylesheets. Scripts that need to run before the page has finished loading. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] A simple IE and JS detection method?
On 29 Oct 2010, at 09:49, Mathew Robertson wrote: Browsers support expando elements (aka, you can bind properties into the DOM object), so adding a class attribute is valid Valid has a specific technical meaning when dealing with SGML and XML. What browsers supports isn't it. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] CSS, :hover and touch screen devices (Was: CSS rollovers for images?)
On 20 Oct 2010, at 16:59, cat soul wrote: will there be/can there be a new command/property which can be read by each device the way it needs to be? could there be soon a touch command so that you could write the code like: hover, do this. If no hover, then touch, do this. If no touch, then __ and do this We shouldn't need it. We have :hover which can be thought of When the user is potentially about to activate something and we have :active which is When the user is activating something. That should be enough until you start trying to use :hover for doing things beyond indicating the possibility of activation, and one you start doing that … http://www.cennydd.co.uk/2010/end-hover-abuse-now/ -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Image Maps
On 14 Oct 2010, at 17:27, Tom Livingston wrote: Are image maps still ok? Still? Server side image maps are as inaccessible as ever. Client side image maps had issues last time I looked at them, but things might have improved since then. http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/mapalt.html is an (oldish) resource which describes some of the issues and ways to work around them. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] CSS support of HTML5 tags not ready yet?
On 27 Sep 2010, at 22:46, tee wrote: Without CSS, wouldn't the browsers render the page just like normal HTML page with browser default styling? Yes … so the blocks would collapse back to inline. Quote Hugo, It will create those elements for IE6-8 (and older browsers with lack of HTML5 support) in DOM. I suppose DOM will still work in older IEs when CSS is off yes? Yes -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] CSS support of HTML5 tags not ready yet?
On 27 Sep 2010, at 11:13, tee wrote: Only the two Webkit browsers are able to render the header and footer correctly. Most browsers don't yet apply default styles to them. Current versions of IE don't recognise them at all without a JS shim. While you can use a JS shim and explicitly set display: block, the rendering fails (usually quite badly) if JS or CSS isn't available. I wouldn't depend on those elements until HTML5 browsers are common. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] un-border-collapse, possible?
On 15 Sep 2010, at 18:42, tee wrote:
I have this:
table {border-collapse:collapse}
I can't overwrite the border-collapse:collapse. Another two options are
separate and inherit.
separate is the opposite of collapse, they aren't independent states. A table
is either one or the other (with inherit meaning to inherit the value from the
parent element).
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Re: [WSG] html5 issue
On 27 Aug 2010, at 19:30, Tom Livingston wrote: Line 12, Column 21: A charset attribute on a meta element found after the first 512 bytes. Can anyone tell me why? You have too much content before the meta tag. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Semantics, lists and links
On 26 Aug 2010, at 17:35, Ellen Herzfeld wrote: An alternative solution is to put all the links in a nav with no list (I'm using html5 elements). The links will then appear on one line when CSS is disabled. Try it in Lynx (last stable release came out last year, newer development builds are available), you'll find it very difficult to tell the difference between white space between links and white space inside links. i.e. the only way to tell where one link ends and the next begins will be to step through them one at a time. As a sentence goes, it won't make a lot of sense either. I'm not sure yet if a p in the nav would be necessary for old browsers. A single link will rarely be an entire paragraph. Lists are the right choice here, other posts to this thread explain some of the ways that screen readers handle them. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] HTML5 offline storage question
On 9 Aug 2010, at 08:59, Josh Godsiff wrote: I avoid Apple products like the plague, so perhaps I'm missing some info here, but what's wrong with simply getting the user to download the file in the normal fashion? Apps are heavily sandboxed and there is no user accessible global file system. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Using CSS instead of JS for accessibility (was Re: [WSG] CSS Expandable Menu)
On 29 Jun 2010, at 00:30, grant_malcolm_bai...@westnet.com.au wrote: I'm trying to avoid use of Javascript due to accessibility concerns. Trying to shoehorn functionality (which is what JS was designed for) into CSS (which is designed for presentation, not logic) is not good for accessibility. The classic example is the drop down menu which, if built using :hover instead of JS: * Can't respond to navigation without a pointer (e.g. keyboard tabbing, or a breath switch) * Can't have any 'fuzz factor' around the pointer position and timing of when a menu goes away (so if someone has any trouble at all with motor skills (e.g. because they have arthritis) they they could find it very different to get to the bottom of a menu without sliding outside it for a second and losing it) * Can't work in IE6 (since it's support for :hover is poor) (at least not without using a really evil hack involving conditional comments and layout tables). JavaScript is not the enemy of accessibility, it just has to be handled with care. If you are worried about pages breaking if JS is not available, then build on things that work: http://icant.co.uk/articles/pragmatic-progressive-enhancement/#build -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Is it still necessary to encode ampersands?
On 25 Jun 2010, at 06:39, Dan Webb wrote: Years ago, I use to painstakingly and religiously convert to amp; when ever I encountered it (HTML 4.01 Strict doctype). It's still pegged as invalid by the W3C validator, but is it really still necessary these days? Yes What could possibly go wrong in modern browsers? * Your ampersand might be followed by a genuine entity name. copy is a good one to have as a field name in a form. * Your pile of validity errors might obscure, by weight of numbers, another screw up on the part of the author that some browsers can't recover from. I'm talking specifically here about ampersands in URLs that are provided to me by database vendors, which I have no control over; I'm about to start inserting literally 100s of them into static html pages. If they are giving you URLs (as opposed to fragments of HTML with errors in them) then the solution is simple - use a tool more powerful than a simple text editor. If not, then run the documents through a fix up script (like HTML Tidy), then for a link check over the results, and hope that they aren't returning 200 OKs for any pages which had real entities in them in the first place. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Is it still necessary to encode ampersands?
On 25 Jun 2010, at 12:32, Nancy Johnson wrote: Besides ampersands, I worked on a dynamic site that the convention was to add a (+) sign in the friendly URL. The plug takes the page title and puts the (+) sign between words. This is fine. A plus just means a space. in a form encoded URL. The W3C validator tells me to convert to amp; and produces 163 errors per page, a site that validated up to the point of the friendly URL was added. There are also URLs to searches that don't validate for other reasons. It will tell you that something is an error. It won't tell you that a + is though. I work as part of a team and had no say in the decision. Sounds like a badly managed team. So now, if I ask for help on certain email lists, and all I get is that your page doesn't validate. I no longer get any help for the question I ask which has nothing to do with why the page isn't validating. This is fair. You ask for free support, but provide test data that doesn't pass basic, automated QA tests. It doesn't really motivate people to help. (BTW, if you really have to work in such a poor environment, you can produce a reduced test case and ask people to help with that instead of your original (invalid) page) As more and more pages are generated dynamically with CMS in place, using friendly URL's or using markers as described below, should this be something the the W3C validator addresses? No, it should be something the CMSs address. There is absolutely no reason for them not to run non-HTML data through X before inserting it into a document. (Where X is http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?HTML::Entities or http://php.net/htmlspecialchars or whatever is the usual tool for the language the CMS is using). A CMS doesn't even have one of the favourite excuses of the hand crafter — it isn't a lot of manual work! -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: IE 6 Nightmare plus new margin problem
On 28 Apr 2010, at 09:43, Kevin Ireson wrote: Try removing display-inline. you dont need it when you use float. Yes, you do. It fixes the IE double margins on floats bug. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] validator error or my code?
On 29 Mar 2010, at 08:24, tee wrote: You are saying W3C is wrong on the techniques for WCAG 2.0 for group radio buttons? This is a good example of just how hard it is to write a validator for accessibility. Use tools for find potential problems, but don't compromise an accessibility and usability to pass a buggy automated test. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] validator error or my code?
On 29 Mar 2010, at 09:23, tee wrote: Can you be more precise as to who got it wrong? I am totally aware the limitation of any validator, but in this case Total Validator flags it (Associate labels properly with their controls), linking to W3C site's techniques for WCAG 2.0. My gut is to trust the techniques provided by W3C than the introduction to form in the same W3C. I've never heard of a user agent have problems with a label appearing after the associated control, and having labels appear after radio buttons and checkboxes is a very old UI convention… and since the tool attempts to use an example that says the code it complains about it OK, I'd say it was a problem with the tool. I have been using WCAG20-TECHS for quite sometimes to keep up with WCAG 2.0, therefore I really want to know if the articles written there can't be trusted but to follow the HTML spec religiously. They should do, but people do make mistakes. This isn't a matter of deviating from the spec though. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Minimal forms or marking up a search field
On 17 Feb 2010, at 19:24, Paul Novitski wrote: To revisit this topic, I'm considering the following and would appreciate feedback: a) Submit button as label: b) Label hidden from view: Neither The label element is not used for the following because labels for these elements are provided via the value attribute (for Submit and Reset buttons), the alt attribute (for image buttons), or element content itself (button). — http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-WCAG20-TECHS/H44.html -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Data URI encoder
On 10 Feb 2010, at 11:48, Hugo Mendes wrote:
http://websemantics.co.uk/online_tools/image_to_data_uri_convertor/
Unfortantly this technique doesn't work on IE6 and 7.
… as it says on the page? Which suggests work arounds?
On the subject of the suggested workaround (conditional comments) - what about
other browsers which don't support data URIs?
How do browsers behave, in practice, given:
background-image: url('http://example.com');
background-image: url('data:...');
Do browsers which support the data scheme successfully override the regular
image before starting to download it?
Do browsers which don't support it still use the earlier declaration? Or do
they go I accept url() values, will override now?
--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk
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Re: [WSG] CSS Validation Error
On 4 Feb 2010, at 07:42, Joshua Street wrote: The validator does correctly parse as per the spec. The spec defines a way for vendor prefixes to exist without conflicting with anything in CSS, no more. This makes them part of the grammar, not the vocabulary, and the validator checks both. The CSS 2.1 specification says Authors should avoid vendor-specific extensions. I agree vendor-specific extensions do not constitute acceptable vocabulary, but as the specification allows a grammatical means for their inclusion it seems counter-productive to flag them as errors. It provides a means for vendors to experiment without conflicting with real CSS, and for authors to *test* those features. The specification assures authors and vendors that An initial dash or underscore is guaranteed never to be used in a property or keyword by any current or future level of CSS - and, accordingly, they are (and will remain) grammatically permissible / safe for use. The imperative to avoid these extensions lacks explanation and, while this list is (by virtue of our name!) perhaps not the place for such views, seems to stem from the desire to preserve the appearance of standardisation rather than maximising the utility and flexibility of the standard in question. The appearance of standardisation? The whole point of vendor extensions is that they are non-standard. Some of them are experimental implementations of standard features, some of them are experimental implementations of proposed features which may appear in future standards, some of them are outright proprietary. They are not standard. As a counterpoint to this, of course, using standards-compliant techniques to achieve an outcome will more successfully preserve interoperability into the future. However, I would assert the advice to avoid vendor-specific extensions should be constrained by this, rather than suggesting that a guaranteed future-compatible (albeit potentially no longer functional, contingent on ongoing vendor support) identifier should be avoided unswervingly. They aren't guaranteed future-compatible. Vendor: We propose this feature and have implemented this as -vendor-foo Other Vendor: Well, it has these problems, what if ... Vendor: OK. We've changed the way it works. All the slightly older clients supporting the original implementation promptly break. How would this be implemented anyway? Anything that looks like a vendor prefix works? -moz-bowder-wadius: Congratulations! It is valid! But why doesn't it work? Or does someone try to maintain a list of all the different extensions? The CSS 2.1 specification lists 12 known vendors who use the vendor prefix. Who is going to maintain a central list of all proprietary extensions and the values they accept? How would they be versioned? -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] CSS Validation Error
On 4 Feb 2010, at 03:29, Joshua Street wrote: The prefix may be part of it to address parsing issues, but - afaik - that does not make these extensions CSS properties. Indeed - yet therein lies the frustration at the validator failing to correctly parse as per spec. The validator does correctly parse as per the spec. The spec defines a way for vendor prefixes to exist without conflicting with anything in CSS, no more. This makes them part of the grammar, not the vocabulary, and the validator checks both. The CSS 2.1 specification says Authors should avoid vendor-specific extensions. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] e-mail link
On 2 Feb 2010, at 09:54, Paul Novitski wrote: Another problem with using mailto is that it assumes that the website visitor's browser can find an email client on their computer. One of the most common solutions is instead use a contact form However, contact forms are much less usable then email clients (lacking features such as CC to someone else and Save a copy to my sent items). I'd recommend * Use a regular email link * Use the email address as the link text ** Benefits printing ** Makes it obvious that it is a mailto: link and not a link to a contact page ** Allows copy/paste (for users not aware of Copy email address features on web browser context menus * Use a form for users who prefer it or don't have access to an email client (including webmail) -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] fonts
On 1 Feb 2010, at 09:01, Marvin Hunkin wrote: so the font for my style sheet. is it coded correctly. We have no way of knowing. now, so do i put say verdana for my body and arial for headings, links, etc. The choice of fonts, especially a choice between two sans-serif fonts, is largely a matter of aesthetics. That said, changing fonts mid-line (and as links are inline elements, this is probably what you are suggesting) is generally a bad idea. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] AAA Accessibility and validation
On 13 Jan 2010, at 04:02, c...@fagandesign.com.au wrote: Now, this Accessibility Appendix lists CSS validation (point 3) as a required attribute for compliance. No, it doesn't. The document says, under conformance: Conformance Level Triple-A: all Priority 1, 2, and 3 checkpoints are satisfied; Appendix A doesn't list any checkpoints. I guess my question is: Do IE-related CSS hacks cause a document to fail AAA (or A/AA for that matter) Accessibility compliance? Maybe and no. There are IE-related CSS hacks that are valid, and others that are not. The valid ones don't cause it to fail any checkpoint, as far as I know. Guideline 3 says Use markup and style sheets and do so properly and you could make a case that invalid CSS is not using style sheets properly. Checkpoint 3.2 says Create documents that validate to published formal grammars., but it can be argued that a style sheet is not a document. Meanwhile, WCAG 2.0 makes no requirement that CSS be valid (and when refers to 'markup' rather than 'documents'). -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] AAA Accessibility and validation
On 13 Jan 2010, at 21:30, Chabot, Elliot wrote: The requirement for validation in WCAG 1.0 is contained in checkpoint 3.2, http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/wai-pageauth.html#tech-identify-grammar. Err, yes. As I said (and you quoted!): Checkpoint 3.2 says Create documents that validate to published formal grammars., but it can be argued that a style sheet is not a document. Meanwhile, WCAG 2.0 makes no requirement that CSS be valid (and when refers to 'markup' rather than 'documents'). -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs
On 5 Jan 2010, at 06:40, Jayachandran Kandasamy wrote: Use padding / margin thru CSS instead of BRs... OK, so I want: Mary had a little lamb, little lamb, little lamb, Mary had a little lamb, whose fleece was white as snow. So I would mark this up as: p Mary had a little lamb, br little lamb, little lamb, br Mary had a little lamb, br whose fleece was white as snow. /p Please show us how to achieve this effect with margin and padding instead of line breaks. (It is a slightly different usecase to the one originally described, but the same principles apply) -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] More on understanding html5
On 5 Jan 2010, at 12:59, designer wrote: I used figure in this case: figure img src=graphics/marramgrass.gif alt=marram grass width=116 height=400/ p style=text-align:center Marram Grass /p /figure As an aside, you might want to test in Lynx (which is a quick and cheap way to get some idea of how any non-graphical user agent is likely to encounter your data - including GoogleBot and any screen reader). marram gress Marram Grass … isn't very useful. So, is the validator wrong? Yes. And, if so, where do I get guidance as I bumble along? The most recent draft of the specification. Other users. Following the working group mailing list. Remember, HTML5 is a work in progress. The specification is unstable. Tools (validators, browsers, generators, etc) that use it will be out of date. It is not ready for prime time. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] More on understanding html5
On 5 Jan 2010, at 13:33, Darren Lovelock wrote: But then again html5 seems to not need opening or closing tags in a lot of cases, as it accommodates for a more sloppy way of coding and therefore the validator may be incorrect. HTML4 doesn't require opening or closing tags in many cases either. In this case, however, dt and dd elements are children of the figure element, not a dl element with optional start/end tags. Here it doesn't say to use a definition list, just a legend and an img tag for adding a caption to an image - http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-html5/ That article is 2.5 years old. For something as unstable as HTML5, I'd ignore it. This site however says the html5 spec was changed to use the dddt instead but there are still problems with it - http://html5doctor.com/dd-details-wrong-again/ That is more of a problem with Internet Explorer. It is recovering from the error in the HTML 4.x in a very strange and illogical way. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] google chrome frame
On 3 Jan 2010, at 09:32, tee wrote: For those corporations that are still using W2K and IE6, will IE6 renders like Google Chrome if user installs Google Chrome Frame and that a site has it implemented? Most of those corporations don't allow end users to install software, and Chrome frame appears to require XP or newer (so you can count Win2k users out). However it does not answered if we need to worry about fixing IE6 or not. This nudges the effective usage of IE6 down a little, but the browser is still out there and you still need to decide about the relative merits of supporting those users Vs. not doing a lot of work. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] @font-face?
On 21 Dec 2009, at 12:44, designer wrote: I recently tried a simple @font-face test, via font-squirrel, using a font similar to Bookman. Unless There are tweaks that I don't know, I wouldn't use it on a site that mattered because of the delay. The ordinary font appears, then after some time (seconds, but very noticeable) the embedded font appears. http://24ways.org/2009/designing-for-the-switch has good coverage of this. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
On 8 Dec 2009, at 22:00, Jen Strickland wrote: David, that ul li business was from the PRE ELEMENT definition from the w3c, not a suggestion for the poem formatting. ~ Jen I can't find a definition of the pre element that includes the example you provided on the w3c site. Can you cite a URI please? -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Deprecated start for lists confirmation
On 10 Nov 2009, at 16:43, Jens Brueckmann wrote: Thanks for the responses so far! Does this mean that today's standard is to not break a list apart ever??? No, it means when using strict doctypes the attribute is not allowed. It doesn't. There are a number of attributes / elements which are deprecated or appear only in Transitional/Frameset but not both. In this case, the start attribute is both deprecated and does not appear in Strict. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Including a DIV element inside an HREF tag
On 4 Nov 2009, at 14:03, Foskett, Mike wrote: Personally I’d structure it like so: Then use JavaScript to make the whole div clickable Likewise. This has the advantage of not having hugely long link texts for software which generates lists of links (e.g. lynx, or most screen reader packages) -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Including a DIV element inside an HREF tag
On 4 Nov 2009, at 15:18, Stuart Foulstone wrote: Since links are inline elements, they shouldn't contain block elements, such as div and p. Why not use span (native) inline elements? Because it screws up the semantics. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Including a DIV element inside an HREF tag
On 4 Nov 2009, at 16:12, Kepler Gelotte wrote: Because it screws up the semantics. I thought span and div were semantically neutral (no inherent meaning). They are. The content is a heading and a paragraph. Now compare: span div : with h4 p : This is a heading and a paragraph See also the CSS specification: Note. CSS gives so much power to the class attribute, that authors could conceivably design their own document language based on elements with almost no associated presentation (such as DIV and SPAN in HTML) and assigning style information through the class attribute. Authors should avoid this practice since the structural elements of a document language often have recognized and accepted meanings and author-defined classes may not. — http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/selector.html#class-html Also the javascript approach to apply the link is ignoring the group of users who don't have javascript or have it disabled. No, it doesn't. The link is still accessible with mouse, keyboard and any other input device — it just doesn't fill the entire box. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] skip links
On 29 Oct 2009, at 11:48, designer wrote: Screen magnification users also benefit from skip links. Making these links visible help more than just screen reader and keyboard users. div class=skip a href=#content accesskey=SSkip to Main Content/a /div Presumably, the accesskey caters for those folk also? Assuming they know the link is there. If it is styled to as to be invisible or off-screen, then it hurts more than it helps. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] wrap in print
On 13 Oct 2009, at 11:02, Naveen Bhaskar wrote: Is there any way to wrap the text around an image while printing. Float the image in a print media stylesheet. http://css.maxdesign.com.au/floatutorial/ http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/media.html -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Local W3C CSS Validator for Windows
On 8 Oct 2009, at 12:48, Daniel Anderson wrote: Can anyone help me with a good W3C CSS Validator that will run on Windows? The W3C only provide one CSS validator. It is written in Java though, so it should run on Windows. http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/DOWNLOAD.html -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] unbalanced q tags for extended quotations?
On 1 Oct 2009, at 06:16, T. R. Valentine wrote: Quotations which are more than one paragraph in length are supposed to get opening quotation marks for each paragraph and only a single closing quotation mark at the very end (in English). It does not seem this can be done using semantic markup, i.e. q tags. Is there some way to use q tags and get the UA to stop treating each paragraph as a new nested quote? Q is intended for short quotations (inline content) that don't require paragraph breaks — http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/text.html#h-9.2.2 Use the right tool for the right job. BLOCKQUOTE cite=http://www.mycom.com/tolkien/twotowers.html; PThey went in single file, running like hounds on a strong scent, and an eager light was in their eyes. Nearly due west the broad swath of the marching Orcs tramped its ugly slot; the sweet grass of Rohan had been bruised and blackened as they passed./P /BLOCKQUOTE -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Ordered list start value
On 29 Sep 2009, at 00:45, Ben Buchanan wrote: The only valid way to change the numbering of lists in strict XHTML is to put a value= on each LI. The value attribute for li elements doesn't appear in Strict. http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/index/attributes.html is marked with an L, so it appears only in Loose (Transitional). -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] [Spam] :The wisdom? of using q to clear
On 29 Sep 2009, at 15:35, Nancy Johnson wrote: I'm not sure q is supported by all browsers. It isn't, but so what? It still causes problems in browsers which do support it when it is abused. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] [Spam] :The wisdom? of using q to clear
On 29 Sep 2009, at 18:35, designer wrote: I'm not sure q is supported by all browsers. It isn't, but so what? It still causes problems in browsers which do support it when it is abused. Such as what? (serious question - as I said, I'm not using this method, but enquiring minds like to know :-) Such as those described in the message to which the highest level quote in this mail was a response to. (The joy of context lost due to top posting) … and the generation of quote marks around the element. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Ordered list start value
On 28 Sep 2009, at 14:02, T. R. Valentine wrote: What is the proper way to start an ordered list at a value other than '1' in XHTML? I had ol start=9 flagged because 'there is no attribute start' Use Transitional. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] web hosting
On 4 Sep 2009, at 13:53, info wrote: Also, not meaning to flame you, but if you think the server needs to support javascript, then I doubt you really know what your doing. Javascript comes down to the client side browser, not the server side host. cough http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server-side_JavaScript -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [Spam] :Re: [WSG] thomas hull website
On 3 Sep 2009, at 23:03, thomas hull wrote: Thank you. I dont understand anything u wrote. I am a newbie! If u got the patiance, please ! Start here: http://opera.com/wsc/ -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] STYLING QUERY
On 25 Aug 2009, at 06:36, Marvin Hunkin wrote: HI. DEVELOPING A WEBSITE USING Microsoft visual web developer express 2008. looking to mix and match styles, by using the css and html styles, I wouldn't do that. Partial separation of style and structure is confusing. classes and ids. See http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=ClassesVsIds so what would the expected result. would it overide a style i have called BlueStyle.css and also would it affect my skin files. http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/cascade.html#cascade describes how to determine which styles 'win' if multiple, conflicting styles are applied to a given element. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Looking For Images
On 24 Aug 2009, at 13:35, Marvin Hunkin wrote: looking for the following images. File names are only unique for a given directory on a given file system. It is impossible to tell what specific image a given filename refers to without actually having the file. John Unsworth explained this when you asked this in July. He also provided you with some suggests on where you might look for images that you can use. can any one help or recommend some good images. The selection of good images for a given site is dependent on the overall design of that site. It isn't possible to make good recommendations out of context. Also, while I appreciate your situation, this mailing list is supposed to be about the discussion of web standards. I don't think requests for graphic design work and media sourcing really fall into category. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms
On 19 Aug 2009, at 16:37, Erickson, Kevin (DOE) wrote: When making a form in Dreamweaver it puts in id=same as name in to every form item. When I take out all the id attributes the form still works. Why are the id attributes being put in by DW and, more importantly, is there an accessibility issue if I take them out? In the case of radio groups — this is a problem, since an id must be unique per document while every element in a radio group must share a name. In the case of everything else… The id itself doesn't matter. What is important is that there is a label associated with the form control. The best supported means of creating this association is with the for attribute. input type=radio name=favourite_pet id=favourite_pet_dog value=dog label for=favourite_pet_dog Dog /label If Dreamweaver is doing a good job, then it will be generating those labels for you, and removing the id attribute will break things. Otherwise, you should be adding the labels yourself. Either way, the id attributes are important. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms
On 19 Aug 2009, at 19:35, Tom Livingston wrote: On a slightly related topic, I have wrapped inputs inside of labels for browser compatibility for the label clickability/focus issue (based on some research some time ago), but have just read for the first time recently, that this is not a good idea. Any thoughts? It isn't really a bad idea. It isn't as well supported as using the for attribute, so you should use that as well. Beyond that it is a matter of person taste. I find having the inputs outside the labels provides for more flexible styling options, YMMV. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] hr / or CSS3 Border Background
On 9 Aug 2009, at 03:53, tee wrote: Then my question, what about those who prefer to stick with XHTML? By Stick with XHTML do you mean not to move to an unstable, draft markup language? Plenty of people are happily writing HTML 4.01 and avoiding the pain of Appendix C. The hr tag is deprecated. Which specification deprecated it? -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] hr / or CSS3 Border Background
On 9 Aug 2009, at 10:38, tee wrote: On Aug 9, 2009, at 1:36 AM, David Dorward wrote: On 9 Aug 2009, at 03:53, tee wrote: Then my question, what about those who prefer to stick with XHTML? By Stick with XHTML do you mean not to move to an unstable, draft markup language? Plenty of people are happily writing HTML 4.01 and avoiding the pain of Appendix C. But isn't it going to have XHTML2 as well? Given that the XHTML working group is being wound up — it seems unlikely. Whatever 'it' is. Things HTML5 does not do: • Does not favor XML facilities (what does this mean? What impact will it have for sites that were built in XHTML strict and CMS that parse XML (not just the RSS feed)? ) Rubbish. It has an XML serialization. • Does not avoid scripting What does this mean? Scripting has its place. • Does not consider integration with the SemWeb a priority (and what does this mean? Is SemWeb semantic web? Both Yahoo and Google adapted Semantic Web, what impact will it have for SEO?) The relationships to RDFa and other semweb technologies are some of the more unstable parts of the HTML 5 draft. So, people like me who are in the web development, but our well- being are on the mercy of you pioneers, HTML5, XHTML2.0 authors and W3C's If you don't like it. Participate in the process. http://www.w3.org/html/wg/ -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] hr / or CSS3 Border Background
Sorry, I missed this bit when I last responded. On 9 Aug 2009, at 10:38, tee wrote: Which specification deprecated it? This is what I learned: All presentation attributes of the hr element were deprecated in HTML 4.01 Deprecating some attributes on an element does not deprecate the element itself. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Form question
steve.haffen...@gmail.com wrote: Can anyone tell me why the HTML specification does not restrict form elements from appearing outside of the form tag? For use in client side scripts IIRC. (HTML 4.01 does have some flaws) -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: Re: [WSG] Form question
Mathew Robertson wrote: Another related question to ask... Why is putting a hidden input field, as the first child of a form element, disallowed? Because it is an %inline element. The child element(s) of a form must be %block. http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html#h-17.3 -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Back to basics!
designer wrote: Hi all, Could anyone tell me where there is information regarding character code 'usage' that is simple. I always use UTF-8 and, e.g., if I want to put a left quote in my text I can use quot; or #8220; Which is recommended? Neither. quot; will give you a straight quote (which you don't want). #8220; is hard to read when you are editing your source (and takes up 7 bytes). Just use “, it *is* in UTF-8 after all. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Fieldset and Legend
CK wrote: Hi, After reading the specification, it appears that the elements fieldset and legend are used to denote groups of related form fields. However, I can across the following code at surf the channel which appears to use it as a decorative element. Does the following usage, contradict the CSS specification? No. It contradicts the HTML specification (multiple times, since you aren't allowed nested anchor elements either). -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] DIV Javascript Problem
Aaron Wheeler wrote:
They do not want to use .php and mysql data basing as
they are worried about losing their ranking in the search engines.
So rather than presenting the data in a form that the search engine will
ready, they are choosing to use a method where the search engines will
ignore it?
Here is an extract of the coding.
script language=javascript src=rates.js/script - obviously
imports the divs with the prices attached.
Um. Right. Obviously.
HTML 3.2 for some reason.
body onLoad=loadPrices('ox001, ment001 ,hvh001 ,vhw001')
And this is invalid. Use a validator before asking humans to look at code
please. It saves their time if you don't waste it with errors that a
machine can pick up.
It is also odd for a JS script to expect a string containing comma
separated data rather than a separate JS argument for each piece.
--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/
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Re: [WSG] Rendering difference between Strict Transitional doctypes in FF, IE8 Safari
David Hucklesby wrote: I don't see anything in the W3C recommendations that forbids frames of any kind? http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/index/elements.html clearly marks iframe as a feature of the Loose (AKA transitional) DTD. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] website fonts
Paul Novitski wrote: I submit that installing a font on one's computer establishes a concrete desire to view text styled in that font to be displayed in that font. More usually, it establishes that the system administrator for that computer installed a piece of software that came with the font. (Which is not to say that style sheets shouldn't suggest fonts, just that that isn't a good argument). -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] no scrollbars in ff
kevin mcmonagle wrote: Any suggestions? I suggest not asking people to debug code based on third party examples that work instead of the code that actually causes the problems. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] valid meta tags
quote who=Andrew Cunningham Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote: There are important differences between meta http-equiv='content-language' and lang and xml:lang attributes the lang and xml:lang attributes can only contain a single language But describe the element they apply to and its children unless another lang is specified. p lang=en-usHer choice of color, left a certain span lang=frje ne sais quoi/span/p meta http-equiv='content-language' can contain a list of languages Which are the natural languages of the intended audience, which are not always the same as the languages used in the document. If we go back to the earlier example, even though it is written in American English, it is intended for all English speakers, and despite having a splash of French in the text, it isn't the version intended for French speakers. Content-Language: en p lang=en-usHer choice of color, left a certain span lang=frje ne sais quoi/span/p *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] PNG - how cross-browser standard reliable?
Mike Kear wrote: I’m looking at a whole bunch of icons to use in a new app I’m building, and rather than convert them all to gifs, I was thinking of leaving them as the .png format they are now.They work on all the browsers I use, but I’m wondering what everyone else’s experience has been of using .pngs in web pages. PNG is fine unless you have gamma information in the file[1] or 24-bit translucency and a need to support IE6[2] [1] http://hsivonen.iki.fi/png-gamma/ [2] http://www.dillerdesign.com/experiment/DD_belatedPNG/ -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Where is browser compatibility in wcag?
Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] wrote: I mean: to be accessible the site doesn't necessarily have to look great, but at least the content should show up in all browsers, even the old ones, right? That would mark any site that used shared webhosting (i.e. most websites) as inaccessible since there are old browsers that do not support HTTP 1.1 and so do not send the HTTP Host header. A line needs to be drawn somewhere. The problem is that nobody can really seem to agree on where a reasonable place to draw it is. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] IE8 compatibility mode
Eyemax Studios wrote: Personally I think this is just another Microsoft attempt at trying to enforce what it believes the Standards should be. The beta program lasted for quite some time, you could have provided feedback if you thought they were deviating from actual standards. I too, spent several minutes trying to fix problems in ie8, when my wife noticed the main business's site not displaying properly, then she noticed the compatibility button next to the address bar in ie8 and it all worked fine. Presumably it was pre-hacked to work with IE7, so it is unsurprising the switching to IE7 compatibility mode would resolve any issues. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] TYPE attribute of BUTTON
tee wrote: My question: on each form, if only one button is used, it's really unnecessary to have type=button right? If you want a type=button, then it is necessary - since the default is submit, not button. OTOH, since a type=button is useless without JS, I would generate one using JS/DOM rather than HTML. If you do want a submit button, then I would generally suggest heading towards input type=submit rather than button unless you really need the latter - since there are some delightful inconsistances between what HTML buttons do according to the spec and what Internet Explorer does with them. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] add to favorites?
designer wrote: Does anyone know of a modern, valid, reasonably cross-browser way to provide a link on a page so that a user can add the page to favourites? As far as I know, Microsoft are the only vendor to have implemented a system for triggering bookmark/favourite adding from a webpage. In my opinion, the lack of support is a good thing. I can think of two reasons why you might want to have such a feature. 1. To help users who don't know how to use the feature their browser has built in. ... but if they don't know how to add them, then they probably don't know how to go back to them. 2. To cover up a Oh, you have to love this website, please add it to your bookmarks, pretty please message with something resembling something useful. ... which is just tacky. Are there any other reasons? -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] a WCAG 2.0 question
michael.brocking...@bt.com wrote: I would have to disagree with that. If the user actually _is_ aware that they are about to open a new window, then does the same again somewhere else on the page, or on another page, then they are going to be very confused to discover that only one window has opened. And some systems do not raise windows that already exist when a new document is loaded into them. A few years ago (before I rigged my system to make it very difficult for sites to force new windows on me), I would (every now and again) run into sites where clicking a link appeared to do nothing (because it was changing the content of a window hidden behind the active window). There are lots of reasons why new windows cause accessibility and usability problems. It is almost always better to just work with the window the user provides you with and not try to get extra ones. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] DHTML Menus
Al Sparber wrote: ... then don't use an ancient DHTML menu that carries your links in a script file. Instead, use a modern menu that employs list-based markup and a script that visually and interactively enhances that markup, progressively and unobtrusively. Today's options in that area are many. Splurging every significant link in the site in a set of lists at the top of every page probably isn't ideal for the speed of the site, or its usability in browsers without JS (who wants to scroll through four screens of links on each page of a site)? Linking to category index pages is probably a better approach most of the time. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Code scan, complient to guidelines version 2.0
Thiru Yoganathan wrote: I am looking for a code scan tool that compliant to the new accessibility guidelines v2.0 We currently use Bobby, however that is still adhering to the guidelines, version 1.0 Does anybody know of a tool which can do this? I use siteSifter - http://www.sitesifter.co.uk/ http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tools/ has some lists. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] DHTML Menus
Kristine Cummins wrote: I’ve recently seen some arguments against the use of DHTML menus for accessibility issues. How much is this an issue…. What is the percentage of population that does not have javascript enabled? Any other thoughts on the topic? DHTML menus is a very vague term. The tool doesn't matter so much as what you do with it. A menu which used JavaScript to change the background colour of the menu item when pointed at would qualify as a DHTML menu. It would be an inefficient way to do something that could be more easily achieved with CSS, but the term would still apply. I'm going to assume you are talking about drop down menus. It is entirely possible to create something that works without JavaScript progressively enhances (although there are some arguments about whether drop down menus are an 'enhancement' on websites, see below) when it is. It is also possible to create things that not only fail to work when JS isn't available, but sometimes fail to work when it is. Take, for instance, a menu that depends on the user moving the mouse over the title to cause the menu to appear. Now approach it with a keyboard - there aren't any links (in their theoretical example) for the focus to go to, so the menu can't be used - even those the client supports JavaScript. Next approach it with a touch screen (on an iPhone for example). The client supports JS. The client can click. But the client can't hover the pointer over anything. It's broken again. Then there are other arguments again them: http://www.message.uk.com/index.php?page=81 -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] IE and the button element
Nick Fitzsimons wrote: Actually, the specific purpose of the button is to allow one to have buttons that *don't* look like ordinary buttons: Buttons created with the BUTTON element function just like buttons created with the INPUT element, but they offer richer rendering possibilities: the BUTTON element may have content. http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#edef-BUTTON No, you can have richer rendering possibilities without giving up looking like ordinary buttons. The typical case is a button with an icon on it. http://www.packagekit.org/img/kpk-confirm.png for example. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Marking up news
Kay in t Veen - Gmail wrote: i would not suggest to use h1 for our news cause what benefit would a h1 have on the keywords our news. Think about page structure first, and what search engines think about it second. further a news module is a sub part of your site and never use h1 for that and surely dont use 2 h1's in 1 page. It isn't clear from the original question if this is about a page of news (in which case an h1 would be the right element for the heading that identifies the page as being about news) or some other element (if it was a block which just formed part of other pages). -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessibility testing
Gunlaug Sørtun wrote: 2: according to specs (and browsers) a character encoding stated in an xml declaration is good, and further stating unnecessary. No warning should be given in such a case. An ?xml ? declaration (or anything else before the Doctype) will trigger Quirks mode in IE6 so should be avoided. The prolog is optional if the defaults (XML 1.0 and UTF-8 or UTF-16) are used. It is forbidden if HTML 4.01 is used. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] A Semi-Transparent Background Color?
Brett Patterson wrote: I was wondering why there was no implementation to allow a semi-transparent background color using CSS? If there is, is there a link that would point me in the direction to figure out how to go about implementing it on a Web page? Translucent background colours don't appear until CSS 3. There are some implementations of the drat, but they aren't universal. I wrote about how to make use of the technique with various fallbacks here: http://dorward.me.uk/www/css/alpha-colour/ -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] label:hover - more harm than good?!
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 02:12:31PM -0800, tee wrote: I use label:hover for a site, it's working fine when there is one input field or radio button. But it's creating a confusion for client on checkboxes and select option as clicking on the label text trigger no focus /selection on checkbox or option. It should do. Have you properly associated the label with the input by giving the input a unique id and using it in the for attribute of the label? -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Image with borders due to Anchor tag
Brett Patterson wrote: The question, better explained is, using the above code, why do you have to apply the CSS attribute, border: none;, to the image tag within the anchor tag? Rather than using text-decoration: none;, to the anchor tag, like you would use it to apply to an anchor tag with text in it to remove the underline. Because it is a border not an underline, and it is drawn around the image not the entire link. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Image with borders due to Anchor tag
Brett Patterson wrote: So, my question is this. Why does the image tag have to have the border placed on it, instead of placing the border or text-decoration styles on the anchor tag? Consider the case: a href=/ img src=/foo alt= Ipsum Ipsum /a A border around the entire thing would give a very different effect to a border around just the image. There's no selector in CSS to select an element based on its descendants either. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Blockquote
James Jeffery wrote: Thanks for the heads up guys. I know how to use blockquote, that's not an issue, but I'm wondering if using cite would be worth it. I won't be storing the URL from the original page. If I did citing the orig. page that could get me into a while lot of trouble if I am mirroring/scraping/*stealing* quotes from certain sites. Hence why I do not want to cite the original site. I'm not sure I understand you correctly. Are you saying that your are infringing on copyright and are worried that citing the source will get you caught? If so, you're trying to solve the wrong problem and should be seeking to license the content or otherwise use it within the constraints of the law. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] JavaScript as External File vs. Internal Code and linking to images
Brett Patterson wrote: Recently, I experimented with changing check boxes with JavaScript. If the user clicked on the words next to the check box, then the box would be checked, once checked if the user clicked again, then the box would be unchecked. Sounds like a label would have been easier. I thought that JavaScript was read like an external CSS file was read, where you would have to use the (../) part to link to the image if it was in a different folder one level above the current folder. (as the first line of code above is.) Is that not how JavaScript works? When it comes to linked images? You aren't reading the resource at the URL from JavaScript though - you are changing the DOM so it references a different URL (and it is still using the URI of the HTML document as a base). -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
