Re: [WSG] scrolling text and images
Hi, When I have implemented these news-ticker-like 'widgets', I have made sure that at the very least, the content I am using within the widget is readable by a screen reader. This can be done by putting xhtml into a div, and placing it off screen (to the left with negative em). On instantiation of the 'widget', it sources its news from the hidden content div, or simply uses the div itself by un-hiding it. The content xhtml is usually an unordered list of news items. This borrows from the technique used with drop-down menus and the like... The other major problem though, and something this alone won't resolve, is the issue of a client being 'javascript-less'. There are a few options here though, for instance, the noscript tag could be employed to deliver alternative content to those users. This might be a partial representation of the news items or a link to a page containing all the news in full. Hope this helps. Richard: You could use a satay method for flash (ALA), however it doesn't deal with the IE patenting issue regarding Active X plugins. Flash player will not become interactive until after the player is 'activated' by the user - painful. You would be better off using UFO or SWFObject scripts to embed flash movies in pages. On 5/3/07, Richard McCoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robin wrote: I have been asked by a client for an area on his website that will have scrolling text or images or both and also a devolving and resolving image panel. I have advised against this as moving things on pages constantly annoy as well as the inaccessibility issues that using scripts bring. So my question is does anyone know of any application or any way that i can do this in a way that will make the least amount of compromises to accessibility and degrade nicely if either active x or javaScript or what ever else might be used to create these transitions are not available. An example of what the client is looking for is. http://investhawkesbay.com/ YU. Could you not build the flappy about stuff in flash and use an adaptation of the flash satay method to replace the core information in standard images and text, that way the information will still be accessible to spiders and other non visual readers without the need for scripting jiggery pokery. Rich -- RICHARD McCOY ~ McCOY DIGITAL LTD PORTFOLIO ~ http://www.mccoy.co.uk PHOTOGRAPHY ~ http://www.littlehellos.com CV ~ http://www.webfellowforhire.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] markup for headline and tagline
Who says? How's he to know that people aren't displaying content in their sidebar which deserves to be introduced with a H2? So you are saying that sidebar content is as important as the main body of the page? If so, shouldn't that content be in the main body of the page? Just being a devils advocate here... Karl *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] wa state guidlines question
Jermayn, I think that it really depends on the end user. I know that any .pdf I open within my copy of Firefox or Safari will always open up a separate instance of Acrobat Reader or OSX Preview.app anyway (= new window). It might have something to do with how Acrobat Reader is installed by the end user, i.e Either as a plugin or standalone app. As a side question, why use PDF? As a governmental body (assumption made by examining your email address), why are you putting your public information into a proprietary format that requires a proprietary reader to read? Can someone tell me how accessible PDF documents are to people with special needs? I'm assuming that it's not hopeless with the likes of the accessibility features within Windows and OSX, or am I wrong? Karl On 5/9/07, Jermayn Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi group, This may only relate to Western Australian people but someone else may know... I have a page that has links to a pdf and the client wanted to know whether it can be linked to a new window or not. They dont really care about best practises etc but rather what the state Internet guidlines are. I have looked through the 107 page doco but cannot find anything. Thanks for you rhelp Jermayn The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE 7 body length problem
On 5/9/07, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On my site, http://christianmontoya.net/
the body does not extend past the content in IE 7 on initial page
load, so the background doesn't reach the bottom of the screen. I know
there's a simple fix for this, but I can't remember it... can someone
help me out? Thanks in advance.
Hi Christian,
I don't see this behavior in ie7 WinXP Pro
But I think you should be able to fix what you describe by giving layout to
some element in there.
Did you try: body {zoom:1}
Couldn't see this issue on my IE7 too (are you using a beta?). Thierry
is right, the element needs to be given layout.
http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html
enjoy...
Karl
---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] IE 7 body length problem
The concept of 'Has Layout' is not a hack, its part of IE's rendering
model... It happens to be something that is outside of the CSS
standard - that doesn't make it a hack.
Microsoft developers decided that elements should be able to acquire
a property (in an object-oriented programming sense) they referred
to as hasLayout, which is set to true when this rendering concept
takes effect.
Besides, if one is worried about validating CSS (which they should
be), it can be dealt with by using conditional mark-up just like any
other IE bollocks. :)
On 5/9/07, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thierry Koblentz wrote:
I don't see this behavior in ie7 WinXP Pro
But I think you should be able to fix what you describe by giving layout
to some element in there.
Did you try: body {zoom:1}
Be very careful about overusing hasLayout. It's not something that
should just be gratuitously used everywhere you think there's a bug,
particularly when you can't actually see a bug. If used carelessly,
hasLayout has the potential to cause more problems than it actually solves.
Hacks should always be a last resort, not something you turn to at the
first sign of a bug. It's always better if you can resolve the issue at
source, instead of throwing random hacks at it until it's patched.
--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/
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Re: [WSG] Carousel effect
http://prototype-carousel.xilinus.com/static Just incase you are using Prototype Karl On 5/10/07, Paul Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Helen, this one uses YUI: http://billwscott.com/carousel/carousel_slides.html HTH, Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible, complex forms
Greg and Steve, I had the idea of doing something like the following: !-- Begin Code -- Balance is within $span style=position:relative;height:1%;padding-right:3em;margin:0;padding-left:0;/spancredit limitlabel for=balance style=position:absolute;text-indent:-999emBalance is within $/labelinput id=balance style=width:3em;position:relative;left:-8.25em;margin-right:-3em name=balance type=text /More text here !-- End Code -- Excuse the inline styling... And make sure that goes in a strict xhtml 1.0 document! or else you will go into quirks under IE. What that basically does is this: - Create the text which the input is to appear within. - Where you want the input, insert a 'spacer' (in this case, a span tag) that spaces out the text the same width that the input is - Create a label that is visible only to screen readers. This label should 'read right' i.e as if it is a label to an actual box - Create your input - Move the input back so that appears to be inside the gap made by the 'spacer' - remove the space (with negative-right margin = to width of input) Pros: -Visually, it kind of gives you what you want. Using em values means that increases of font sizes will still give the same result too. Cons: -We now have some extra text before/after the label/input pair, and it makes even less sense when being read back by a screen reader (or I would assume) - Because the em calculations are consistant over all browsers and font-sizes, sometimes the field overlaps the text. - BIG PITA: You will have to calculate a lot padding and negative margin values per input field Unknown: - How would this deal with big sentences going over multiple lines? - What if text appeared in a fluid layout and the wrap occurred before the input? Frankly, I think you would be better off ditching the label all together and hoping for the best with the text description mixed with inputs. Thanks for the exercise though, was fun! Karl On 5/15/07, Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This kind of design always causes problems during user testing because a screen reader user does not know what comes after form controls when they occur in the middle of a line. In fact they don't even know it's in the middle of a line. You are asking them to read the whole sentence then go back to the middle to enter data in the form. Screen reader users' ability to deal with unusual constructions like this depends on their experience to a far greater extent than fully able users. We find that they may be able to hear all the content but just can't understand what they are supposed to do with it. If this form control is on its own then they will probably cope but if there are lots more like it then it becomes increasingly likely they won't. Blind people don't always 'visualise' things the way you might expect, particularly if they have been blind from birth. Invisible labels are fine, but if you really want it to be more accessible, put the form controls at the end of the sentences. Steve www.testpartners.co.uk www.accessibility.co.uk From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Sent: 14 May 2007 21:23 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Accessible, complex forms I have a dilemma that I hope someone can advise me on. A client wants a fairly complex form that will have input fields in the middle of a line of text (think adlibs), and then a select box at the end of the line. For example: [th] Alert ... [th] Status or delivery choice [td] Balance is within $_ of my credit limit[td] select box [email/sms/both] I hope that example made sense. The problem we are facing is with screen readers, and our approach so far has been to create invisible labels with css. Is there a more accessible way to make this type of form more accessible? Thanks in advance, Greg http://www.wolkinsphotography.com http://www.catscape.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Semantics and small
We have strong, we should have weak :) On 5/17/07, Ben Buchanan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is the best way to show something is less important than the surrounding information (e.g. the date of a post or article, supplementary information at the bottom of a post or article)? Really there's no element other than small which comes close to helping out here; otherwise it really is just a case of using CSS and that's not adding semantics, just style. In typical western communication, people do refer to fine print for supplementary information. The implication of small text is often that it has to be there but nobody expects you to read it. In actual fact the small text is often extremely important but full of legal mumbling that the average reader won't understand anyway. I wouldn't expect that same implication for the date of a post though. So in my culture at least, small sort of does what you want. But I have no idea at all if the smaller text paradigm translates in the slightest for other cultures. So it's just a tad weak, semantically speaking :) HTML5 does add semantics for small but again the semantics described do not work for the date. -Ben -- --- http://www.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Form drop-downs for countries
How are you producing the select and option html? If you are producing these on a webserver via a scripting language, its probably best to do the grouping there. Use the Optgroup tag (which I believe is fairly well supported) to group the list of common countries together with a nice label. Not entirely sure what question you are actually asking here? What do you mean by usability scenarios? Karl On 5/24/07, Sarah Peeke (XERT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi folks, Just wondering what you think about form usability scenarios for drop-downs for countries. I currently maintain a database of countries which is displayed alphabetically in a form drop-down. To save the user having to scroll, I'm considering repeating common countries at the top of the drop-down (as I've seen in use elsewhere), but I'm not sure how accessible that would be. Alternatively, I'm thinking of defaulting to USA - the site I'm working on has an international focus. I would prefer not to use javascript. Thanks Sarah -- XERT Communications email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mobile: 0438 017 416 http://www.xert.com.au/ web development : digital imaging : dvd production *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] dl v table for form layout
I found these awhile back and was hoping to roll something similar back into my css framework: http://dnevnikeklektika.com/uni-form/ I know that forms are a b*tch to get looking even slightly good on all browsers, but frankly, tables are an old dog and dl's are just younger dogs. Field sets are part of the answer, but you will still have problems with borders and legends on those. In the end, I use a combo of fieldsets, spans and divs (and some javascript in the mix for unobtrusive error highlighting). Karl On 5/25/07, Sander Aarts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Mike, Mike at Green-Beast.com schreef: If one tries hard enough, it seems anything can be considered a list of sorts. That might be true, but I hope you will agree that it's easier to consider a form being a list than a whole page. A form is a list of controls and their related inputs, but we wouldn't use a list to organize form controls, so we'd use fieldsets/legends, labels and inputs. Using the QA scenario which you might use to try and justify the use of a DL to organize a form, let's swap out the elements with their appropriate ones (which need to be used anyway). DL = Fieldset ?? = Legend DT = Label (the Q) DD = Input (the A) I didn't say I use dls instead of fieldsets. I use them too if needed, although I'm not a big fan of legend (from a layout point of view this must be the most annoying element). Btw, in some cases the label is not the 'Q' but the 'A', as with checkboxes and radio buttons. And I think that originally legends were meant to replace the 'Q'-label in these cases. It seems to me the form has everything we need to properly organize it. Once it's made we can add then a few styles and layout rules with CSS to make it look good. But in most cases not as good as the designer whose designs I'll have to translate into templates wants it. Sometimes you just have not enough hooks for CSS or you'll have to add extra elements in order to make clear snippets that can be reused within the system of the site. And even though we would all like to create websites that use no more than the necessary semantic elements, I'm sure you're familiar with this problem if you work with designs that are not yours or for customers that want don't want an archaic form layout. And if you do need another element then I'd say a dl comes very close to the semantic structure of a form because of this QA thing. See a real (somewhat styled) example: http://green-beast.com/gbcf/ (Demo Form) Using this is satifies all of the needs of users and spec requirements. No definition list necessary or needed. Your demo form is a wonderful example of a web standards compliant and accessible form (although I think that placing the label text before the field instead of above makes it even more accessible for the avarage visitor, especcially if the form tends to be long), but it also has this basic layout. Which is fine, but not always what is requested. !-- slightly off topic: if I may make a suggestion concerning usability: why not have JavaScript, if supported, answer and hide the anti-spam question? That way a lot of people won't be bothered with it :-) -- I certainly wasn't trying to make a case for using a list, any list, for a form. I know and you are forgiven ;-) Cheers. Sander *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] dl v table for form layout
The point of my comments, though, was what I have been saying all along. You simply don't need additional structure to put a form on a page. All you need are the form-related elements: Form, fieldset, legend, label, input (varied), and textarea. Using these elements and CSS you can lay out a form and, if this done properly, it's good to go, semantic, valid, accessible, and actually fairly controllable. There is actually a lot one can do without having to introduce something like a list or table structure. Try clever floats, et. al. For the most part your comments are correct - however the reality is that these alone will not allow for more complex presentation requirements. This becomes VERY apparent when dealing with errors... For instance, say I am required to indicate to a user that there is a problem with a particular field. More than just providing a list of errors, I wish to highlight each field visually (ideally semantically too) and display a useful help message indicating what the user has done wrong. Here is my label/input ONLY mark-up: label id=label_email for=field_emailEmail Address span class=required*/span/label input type=text id=field_email name=email / How am I going to highlight the label input pair without a container div? A fieldset? But, its one field and field sets seem to indicate multiple related fields? If I put a background colour on a label, how does it appear? What about a background colour on the input itself? We try: div class=labelInputPair label id=label_email for=field_emailEmail Address span class=required*/span/label input type=text id=field_email name=email / span class=errorMessageSorry, your email address was not valid. It should look something like [EMAIL PROTECTED]/div /div But... Where does the 'error message' go? Before or after the input? What about the semantics of this error message? What about the semantics of the required nature of the field in my business logic itself too, surely that might be nice for a screen reader user to know as well? Even if I add in container divs or spans to allow for additional presentation elements, the semantic value of them is still completely non-existent. Thats a limitation with HTML and XHTML, they simply don't allow for meaningful mark-up when it comes to form fields. At any rate, I hope you can see that people are really struggling with this stuff and for good reason. The standards are archaic and leave a lot to be desired. Karl *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] dl v table for form layout
pFields marked with * (asterisk) are required./p Yep, instructions are definitely the way to go with the 'required'. we might even look at making instructions for the required as a definition list (hahaha just for fun) form dl dt*/dt ddFields whose labels contain an asterisk require a value./dd /dl Hey, I mean it kind of makes sense - I have defined what a '*' means in the context of the form... :) Seriously though, we could look at adding more text instructions and aids to help non-visual browsers with the error messages e.g: labelField Label a name=fieldAnchor/ainput span class=error span class=forScreenReaders emAn Error Has Occurred For Field ?php =$fieldLabel?:/embr / /span?php echo $error? span class=forScreenReaders br /a href=#?php =$fieldAnchor? title=Fix the errorTake me to the field so I can fix the error/a /span /span!-- Close of error -- And style accordingly, where forScreenReaders 'hides' elements off left of screen. Not sure if a link to a named anchor before/after/around the field is enough - it would be nice to focus the screen reader onto the input field itself, perhaps a piece of javascript in the onclick would work with SOME screen readers here. labelspan*/span Name: ?php echo $error; ? input value= / /label Im not the biggest fan of a label 'around' an input. To me, it doesn't make a lot of sense, but I know that its standard practice with a lot of people. I understand that it gives us another means of encapsulating our label/field pair, but again I am unsure on the semantics - it poses the question, what is the purpose of the attribute for in labels? - Note: Error would be empty if not applicable. And the script outputted error would be in an unclassed span like the asterisk. About putting the error in the label, not sure on that one either. Is an error a label after all... Overall though, I think if we are trying to cut down on the use of superfluous containers, your method is as good as any other :) Man, I hope for us all that the new HTML and XHTML standards cover form semantics better... Karl *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Safari now on Windows
I recommend it to all those developers that are stuck in a Windows environment - I have already fixed a few bugs I would have had to use my bosses Mac to find! My only concern is that at the moment, I can get away with It might not look 100% in Safari, but it still works... With Safari on Iphone, something which is almost guaranteed to be a raging success, I'm pretty sure I wont be able to use that defense forever. On 6/12/07, Geoff Pack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This will be interesting... Safari 3 Public Beta: http://www.apple.com/safari/ == The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments == *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Safari now on Windows
iPhone might be a different thing altogether .. just because a page renders nicely in Safari on a desktop machine doesn't necessarely mean it is going to be very usable on a tiny screen! (I haven't yet seen an iPhone but I assume the screen would be small like a mobile phone screen...?) Point taken, however I am not just referring to visual appearance. More interested in functionality differences for web applications (AJAX and Javascript in general). I think Apples approach with the safari on the iphone is that it will work the same on all platforms, even XP/Vista now too. That 'hopefully' means that developing with testing for Safari in the present, *should* mean that it will just works on the iphone in the future... Just have to wait and see if that happens or not I guess. If you ask me, I think that the Iphone is probably the major reason for porting Safari to Windows in the first place. Developers will have less excuses not to develop sites capable of running on the latest apple gadget. If more sites work, more people will like the iphone and it will sell better. Im certainly in no hurry to pick one up - even knowing its going to be a few years before it gets off the ground here in Australia. Karl *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Drop Down
Ryan, Sure they are frowned upon, but what option do you have? I always resort to a solution that involves javascript - CSS alone just doesn't work in IE6: Dropdowns/flyouts will show appear under select boxes - this is a big issue in IE6 and no amount of css (even hacks) can get around this in that browser. Oh and besides, it doesnt even support :hover css attributes for anything other than an anchor tag... If you could guarantee that IE7 was used by everyone, at least them we could have CSS only solutions. Frankly, I hate drop down menus. They are unnecessary on most standard websites. Jame's work on UDM is probably the most accessible and functional ones out there - they cost, but he's a nice bloke so its worth it if you are doing something professionally with them. Karl On 6/13/07, Ryan Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks For your Input Phil. What annoys me with some of the solutions is trying to understand some of the browser hacks, and isn't it now with many of the browsers improving that hacks are frowned upon? On 6/12/07, Philip Kiff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ryan Moore wrote: I see that it relies on a source of JS to complete the effect, and i'm wondering if it's possible to complete this purely with XHTML CSS. Anyone have a good example of this? Keryx Web (Lars Gunther) wrote: Just do not do it. It cannot be done. a. JS is the best tool for *behavior*. CSS for design. b. There are huge accessibility and usability issues with pure CSS menus, such as: - off-screen positioning - moving the mouse the shortest distance will often lead to the menu getting closed - non-intuitive keyboard navigation Ryan Moore wrote: Ok. So typically is any form of navigation that relies on a rollover or hover state would be a bad practice of accessibility/usability? It depends on how it is done. I would disagree with Lars that it cannot be done, but to do it properly in a way that meets usability and accessibility guidelines requires a great deal of care and attention to detail. I think that the Ultimate Drop Down Menu 4.5 by Brothercake comes about as close as any I've seen to meeting those guidelines (someone else mentioned it last week in response to a similar question about accessible drop-down menus): http://www.udm4.com/ UDM4 normally uses JavaScript, but it is designed so that the it will degrade gracefully and you can set it up so that your menu will work the same way as a CSS-only menu if JavaScript is turned off. It also includes a keyboard module that allows you to configure better keyboard access. UDM4 is copyrighted and there is a licensing fee, but non-profit organizations can obtain a free license. I do not have any relationship, business or personal, with Brothercake/UDM4 other than having used it when working on a non-profit site in the past. Phil. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Difference between IE and Firefox - can't figure it out...
Not sure why this sort of tabular information isn't in a table? Tables are not all evil... I suppose you are going to have expanding/contracting with the plus button/icon. Besides that though, you should look into the absolute positioning of some of the elements you are putting on the page. You could always pull them back into line for IE6 alone: left:auto !important; /* For reasonably standards based browsers */ left:-20px; /* For hideous non-standards based browsers */ Karl On 6/15/07, Taco Fleur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, I'm hoping someone can see the obvious on the following page and tell me where I've gone wrong; http://vasco.brucehighway.com/reports-hierarchical-display.htm in Firefox it displays the totals on the right-hand side exactly where I expect it to be. In Internet explorer the numbers are aligning to the document and not to the relative positioned elements as in Firefox. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Kind regards, Taco Fleur clickfindT www.clickfind.com.au the new Australian search engine for businesses, products and services . *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Difference between IE and Firefox - can't figure it out...
heh, funny, I see it as having absolute positioning within firebug when I
inspect one of the numbers in the very right column:
#result-tree .c-4 {reports-hierarchi... (line 102)
right:0px;
}
#result-tree .c-2, #result-tree .c-3, #result-tree .c-4 {reports-hierarchi...
(line 81)
position:absolute;
top:0pt;
}
p span {text.css (line 7)
color:#0099CC;
font-weight:bold;
}
Remember that firebug is showing the real-time cascade of the .c-4 styles.
Get firebug if you don't have it! It sometimes helps you diagnose greater
issues in all browsers, even if its a firefox-only extension.
In terms of the expanding/contracting feature determining if its a table or
a list: I actually believe it is safe to have this kind of UI feature within
a table cell, and the data still be tabular in nature. The expand/contract
is simply offering more detailed information for that particular cell of a
particular row.
The added semantic benefits of a table might be worth your while, besides
the fact that it will make the implementation of your css/xhtml far easier
and be visually consistent over more browsers (thinking older 5.0 browsers
here too).
With regards to that, I got a YAHOO javascript error on IE6 while trying to
expand/contract, which indicates to me that whoever is implementing the
client side is using YUI. That might not be the best choice if you are
concerned with older browsers, Yahoo have pretty much written off version 5
browsers...
Regards,
Karl
On 6/15/07, Philippe Wittenbergh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Jun 15, 2007, at 10:12 AM, Taco Fleur wrote:
I'm hoping someone can see the obvious on the following page and
tell me
where I've gone wrong;
http://vasco.brucehighway.com/reports-hierarchical-display.htm
in Firefox it displays the totals on the right-hand side exactly
where I
expect it to be.
In Internet explorer the numbers are aligning to the document and
not to the
relative positioned elements as in Firefox.
Internet Explorer (6 but I've seen 7 acting up as well) doesn't know
where 'right' is. It always computes that based on the nearest
container that 'hasLayout' [1] and is positioned. In your case, I
think it is body (I haven't gone through all of your stylesheets).
giving the parent p 'layout' _might_ solve the issue.
Why not a table ?
[1] http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html
Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://emps.l-c-n.com
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Re: [WSG] Re: video
Flash all the way im afraid. 2c Karl On 7/4/07, Paul Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Flash: (google video, youtube, yahoo video, revver, dailymotion, etc etc) http://www.digital-web.com/articles/the_rise_of_flash_video_part_1/ http://www.digital-web.com/articles/the_rise_of_flash_video_part_2/ http://www.digital-web.com/articles/the_rise_of_flash_video_part_3/ Yes, you can get (pretty) good quality flash video at a low file size Quicktime gives good quality (at a larger file size) but just isn't as ubiquitous as flash... My 2c anyway *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Who's A Front End Developer?
Javascript is really starting to move into the realm of software/application developer. Currently a bleeding edge javascript programmer has to have extensive knowledge of the entire 'web platform'. This includes: server/datastore programming, sound understanding of client/server architecture, standards compliant content delivery, client end compatibility, event driven and accessible user interface design/implementation. And the list goes on... Now, frankly thats a kick-ass javascript programmer. More than likely, you don't need him - let alone can afford him or can hire him as he's hired already by Yahoo or Google or something... You want someone who knows how to implement a graphic designers ideas into a static, browser compatible and hopefully standard semantic markup with a good separtion of presentation from logic. Anything else is a bonus - a bit of experience with javascript (especially use of a framework like Prototype or Mootools), some experience with Flash is also nice if you are into that sort of thing too. Thats about the level of javascript I believe you need to from a front-end developer. I think though, eventually your front-end developer isn't going to need to know Javascript inside and out. They probably won't need to have such an extensive knowledge of the 'web platform' either. Instead, all the work of on frameworks and libraries will reduce the requirement to know 'everything'. The datastore/backend guys will just make sure the data is in a nice format (JSON or something) and that its accessible from a url - their job is done my friends. User interfaces will probably be designed using IDE's (Check out Tibco if you don't believe me) They will be accessible by default due to the use of better mark-up languages with richer widgets and components. Browsers will be compliant to standards and code will be portable between browser and desktop (We can dream can't we?!) In fact, it will be just like Windows application programming - man how boring! Karl *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits
I would also consider Contribute, but only if the site information architecture is relatively small and unlikely to change. You can create areas within your perfectly crafted html that the customer can edit and update with a desktop application. For the most part, it seems to function well from what I have seen, and is particularly useful for those small sites that don't require a lot of smarts, but do require the odd update. Otherwise, yeah, go with a CMS if the site is larger. Karl On 7/12/07, James Gollan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It has been mentioned before, but I find Drupal has been great. It has modules for most things, has a fabulous extensible content system where you can define custom content types, a very powerful theming engine, and an incredibly modular approach to core functionality. When you learn how to use the system you can 'hook into' virtually all aspect of the system to configure it to do just about anything without adjusting the core code (and thus complicating your upgrade path). I have used it to create www.organicexpo.com.au which has an extensive backend order management system, but it is also being used on MTV sites and the satirical news site www.theonion.com. And it runs on php4 and 5. and it can be configured to use external authentication, customised caching such as memcache, and features a database agnostic abstraction layer. IBM, Yahoo (and Google i think) are using it for many internal sites. On 7/12/07, Rahul Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11-Jul-07, at 4:09 AM, Kevin Ross wrote: Now that I have a realization that I need to incorporate some sort of a CMS solution, can anyone lead me to resources that may help to teach me the ropes? I am leaning towards PHP, as I am somewhat familiar with the language. Thanks. Hi Kevin, I have used Textpattern on a number of client sites, and have been very happy with it so far. It is extensible using PHP (I believe), and produces valid, accessible code when used 'out of the box'. It is simple to install, use and maintain. Do take a look. Best, - Rahul. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE bug?
Cant seem to see the problem you are experiencing. It works every time I look at the page in IE6 and IE7... Karl On 9/19/07, Stijn Audooren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I have a little trouble with IE :-(. Don't know if someone can help me or if you know anybody who could help me fix the problem... Don't know if this is a bug or something wrong from my side. I try to explain: I've made a website (www.tessadockers.be) and in the item agenda the pictures don't come always on the screen visually. After refresh, everything looks fine. In FF there is no problem. In IE (tested in 6 and 7) the images are on the right place, but they are not always immediately ready to see. If you go over the image (or the place where the image has to be) the alt-text is shown. Don't think it's the peekaboo. It's not the first IE problem of course, but I just can't fix this one right away :-s. Don't know if I explained the problem properly. If you have questions, please ask. Pages with the problem: for ex.* **www.tessadockers.be/agenda/september.htm*http://www.tessadockers.be/agenda/september.htm * **www.tessadockers.be/agenda/augustus.htm*http://www.tessadockers.be/agenda/augustus.htm * **www.tessadockers.be/agenda/juli.htm*http://www.tessadockers.be/agenda/juli.htm * **www.tessadockers.be/agenda/juni.htm*http://www.tessadockers.be/agenda/juni.htm Why doesn't everybody uses Firefox ;-)? Hope someone can help me with that. Thanks in advance!!! Regards, *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard
Well that's a matter of opinion (preferably a matter of legal opinion). The thing is, it really should be, but right now, there aren't many laws written that protect much of what occurs online (read as: none). Sometimes I am glad thats the case however. I bet everyone around here has a website thats still alive and kicking on the Net filled with nested layout tables and nonsemantic HTML. What if all of a sudden, you have to fix those evil mistakes because a law is introduced that says you have to? And if you don't, you go to jail? But then again, who is accountable when that building you built collapses in a pile of rubble solely because you forgot a few important bricks? As time goes by, websites will probably become so intrinsically linked to our existence that it would be catastrophic to be without access to the services or information they provide. When that day comes, and God help us, we will expect and demand access for everyone. Fair nuff. For now though, I get by when the Internet Banking servers are down and I fire up my copy of Parallels and Windows XP to run a Windows application to lodge my Tax return. Just as I believe it's entirely possible blind people will surf to another website because this one is crap. It's only a mouse click after all - if they can use a mouse that is, maybe its some other assistive technology. Speaking of Microsoft, AHHH another big company to bash, does anyone else find it strange that no one has sued them for the countless hours lost to the incompatibilities of IE? I have a few years owing by reckoning... Karl P.s A braille issue of Playboy - is it perverted that I think this is a cool idea??! You know this exists right? http://www.banterist.com/archivefiles/000305.html [link is safe for work] I was hoping for a something a bit more graphic... Hehe. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard
Russ, time to step in the ring perhaps? On 10/4/07, Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yes for an old site I no longer need. but been too busy fixing sites that people actually need and use. fair nuff. you gonna sue me? On Oct 3 2007, at 23:33, Chris Wilson wrote: If you are going to argue for standards and accesability, follow your own advice first. Captain table layout over here. You don't even have alt tags on your images. Hypocritical aren't ya? Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.joiz.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.joiz.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Load Javascript early or on-demand?
Kit, Seems like you answered your own question there. The only added benefit of putting the script in the header of every page, is that for the first time the script is downloaded, every subsequent page load will not require the same download again, even your Javascript reliant page. If you are talking about only half of your site visitors viewing this Javascript page FIRST, It seems foolish to make the other half suffer. Also, this other half will be bogging down your server for the said script files. I would seriously suggest you consider the usual methods of improving performance. Consider looking at YSLOW, a popular extension to Firebug that Yahoo have developed that outlines some of these methods. Yahoo cares about every byte that goes out of their servers. One thing that I would really recommend straight off the bat is obtaining a minified version of Prototype and Scriptaculous (Protoculous I think its called). This will reduce the number of requests to some rather large files. Also, if you are only including the effects.js aspects of Scriptaculous, do not include scriptaculous.js by itself. Finally, make sure your server can Gzip on the wire as this will reduce your bandwidth usage and reduce page load times substantially (but may hammer your webserver a bit). Karl On 10/9/07, Kit Grose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: G'day all, I've had some internal debate about this topic, so I thought I'd put it to the list: Imagine a large (300 dynamic pages+) site with a real client focus on speed. An average user is expected to visit around 5% of the site per visit (~15 pages), and the user is expected to visit with an unprimed cache around 75% of the time. One very popular page of the site expects to get hits from more than half of all visitors, and uses all kinds of (unobtrusive) Javascript goodies, requiring Script.aculo.us (and therefore Prototype). The page is the only page on the entire site that uses either library. The server is quite slow, so HTTP requests are at a premium. So the question I ask is this: do you 1. load the libraries as part of the global header on every page so that visitors to the swishy page aren't waiting an exorbitant time to view all the Javascript goodies while waiting for two entire JS libraries (and the actual behaviour for the page) to download, but extending the initial load time of the site, or 2. load the libraries on the page in question only, slowing the intra- site navigation, but not penalising users who never intend to visit that particular page of the site. In essence, is it more important to optimise the initial load time, or load-time per subsequent page? Cheers, Kit Grose Frontend Developer iQmultimedia [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] London Meetup for people interested in an informal discussion around web standards
Joe, Great to see gatherings of like-minded folk all over the place. As a side note, have you heard about Pubstandards UK? http://www.pubstandards.co.uk/ Website has kind of died off, but they have a mailing list that has updates on meetings (Generally something on every week or so from what I hear, with Sub-standards). Some very interesting webby people get involved... For Australian Melbournites, there is also Pubstandards: http://www.pubstandards.org Karl On 10/9/07, Joseph Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the Attention of those of you in London, UK. WS Meetup London Group I hope this isn't an infringement of the mailing list. Apologies if I got it wrong. Sorry for the short notice but there has been a bit of an internal debate on the merits of letting you all know about this. For those of you who are not aware, there is a site called Meetup dot com that allows people to create a regular group meeting among people who wish to meet and discuss a topic. anything from books, television programs, games, etc. whatever your interests it helps you find others then start a group. For the past year or so there have been over 100 people who expressed an interest in joining a Web Standards Meetup Group and I managed to get a few dozen interested in joining these past weeks. There will be an inagural meeting of the Web Standards London Meetup Group TONIGHT for anyone interested in discussing issues around implementing Web Standards. This is in no way connected to WASP or Web Standards Group dot org and arose from my experiences in various meetups around London. The aim of this meetup is to have informal discussions or very short presentations (15 mins max) in a pub or coffee-house and to open the floor to informal discussions, support, sharing and commiserate. If possible I would very much like to help promote the WSG London branch through this. They don't seem to be posting their events on the webstandardsgroup.org site since July 2006, even though you get to join the London branch by joining WSG.org. Please visit: http://webstandards.meetup.com/130/ if you are interested in joining this group, which, as some have mentioned in the discussion, is not designed to supplant but instead to compliment the existing WSG.org. London group. http://webstandards.meetup.com/130/ == Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Improving Website Image and Map Accessibility
Posted an article on this topic yesterday. Would be interested to hear what you lot have to say about it: :) http://www.datalink.com.au/company/emagination/webdev/improving_website_image_and_map_accessibility_ Regards, Karl Lurman *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?
In most cases, positioning the element off left of screen is a much
better approach than display:none. Accessibility does not mean that
all css is ignored, and in this case, display:none will probably be
adhered to by a screenreader.
If you can absolutely position an element, set it's left property to
be a negative em value, e.g:
.hideLeft {
position:absolute;
left:-999em;
...
}
Alternatively, sometimes a text-indent will also work (especially if
your absolute element is inside another absolute/relative element)
.hideLeft {
text-indent:-999em;
...
}
Karl
On 10/30/07, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Toney i was speaking in general, i didn't realize he was talking about
hiding keywords from visual view but so spiders see them.
I though he was on about Would hiding elements, such as replacing
navigation text with images, effect search engine spiders and would
the see the navigation text.
I am fully aware SEO abuse, i didn't know he was referencing to that,
my mistake.
James
On 10/29/07, Dave Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It depends what you're using it for. If it's for black hat search
engine tactics which will contain keywords then yes it's bad as it can
get you completely banned from Google.
If it's for hiding an element of the page which you'll then be
displaying using either CSS or JavaScript then it's not neccesarily
bad for search engines but can be bad for accessibility as screen
readers will ignore it so you'd be better off using negative text
indent or negative absolute positioning.
It depends on what situation you're using it for but yes it can be bad
if used wrongly.
Thanks
Dave
- - - - - - - - - -
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk
On 29/10/2007, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I highly doubt that presentational styles will effect SEO.
When you use display:none you are not removing the
content from the source, you are just hiding it from
users viewing the web page.
If you was to remove the element from the source using
DOM that would be different.
James
On 10/29/07, Tony Crockford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 29 Oct 2007, at 15:46, Simon Cockayne wrote:
Hi,
I am sure I read that CSS's display: none has a detrimental on SEO.
Is this true* or did I dream it?
*To clarify...I am keen to know if it is true that there is a
detrimental impact...not whether it is true that I read it or not.
Google specifically caution against hiding text with CSS:
http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=66353
is that what you meant?
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Re: [WSG] Firefox is a pushover
Firefox is also a little naughty when it comes to Javascript parsing.
A friend of mine pointed out how he always gets caught out when
declaring objects in JSON:
var JsonObject{
objectFunction:function() {
// blah
}, // extra comma here...
}
Firefox will happily parse this object without complaint, while IE
will throw a syntax error. The syntax error may rear its head in
firefox if you minify your Javascript. All of a sudden, your
once-working Javascript will start to fail in Firefox too...
Karl
On Nov 22, 2007 5:22 AM, Kurt Lovelace [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
James' advice is it -- there are gobs of plug-ins for FireFox.
There are plug-ins to not only validate HTML but whole singular
toolkits for working with the entire plethora of site spewage:
cookies, CSS, images, links, Id tags, div orders, stack levels,
anchors, block sizes, frames, headers, deprecated elements, feed
validation, section 508 validation, Dom inspectors, speed reports, etc
cetera.
One FireFix plug-in does it all: Web Developer by Chris Pederick
located at
Http://www.chrispederick.com/work/web-developer
Is the über-plugin you are wanting.
I routinely use it to deconstruct sites and quickly resolve issues.
Regarding closed tags...not all need closing. Let not my comment start
a spec war discussion please.
The Best,
-=KuRt=-
Kurt Lovelace
MindRoot Media Inc
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 21, 2007, at 9:54 AM, Chris Price [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I build websites on a Mac and have to check my websites on another
machine in order to view them in IE.
I experience the usual issues with IE applying css differently than
Firefox but my biggest frustrations, lately, have come from errors
in my html that Firefox has happily ignored but IE has faithfully
shown up.
Its traditional to knock IE6 for its non-compliance but its done a
good job of validating my html lately.
I would like to get my Firefox to toughen up and show up errors in
the html without having to submit it to a validator?
The problem usually comes from missing closing tags.
Kind Regards
--
Chris Price
Choctaw
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.choctaw.co.uk
Tel. 01524 825 245
Mob. 0777 451 4488
Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder
while Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional
~~~
-+- Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd -+-
~~~
Choctaw Media Limited is a company
registered in England and Wales
with company number 04627649
Registered Office:
Lonsdale Partners,
Priory Close,
St Mary's Gate,
Lancaster LA1 1XB
United Kingdom
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Re: [WSG] BBC in Beta
Positives: - Theres some clever use of Javascript in there that enables some interesting user interface elements. - In case you missed it, you can drag and drop parts of the page, similar to Yahoo and Googles efforts - although they could have gone some way to making it a bit more obvious. - Another feature I really like is the ability to increase/decrease the number of news stories with the +/- buttons next to the country name. SImilar with the Sports widget. - Customizable interfaces may seem a little gimmicky, but for pages that you visit on a daily basis, they allow people to reduce the 'noise' and increase exposure to content that interests them. - Code is semantic ,gone are the tables for layout, and there are tons of hidden headings and other goodies for screen readers. - Like the use of bold headings and overall larger font sizes compared to previous versions. Negatives: - Messy CSS and Javascript first in source order. - Bit follow the leader (see John Faulds post for link in this thread), but frankly why shouldn't the BBC move with the times. - Agree with Mark Boulton on the Weather icons, the Sunny one is just shocking! - The colour change thing is okay, but I think the colours are a little too light in spots (especially with white text on top). Perhaps its just my LCD... Karl *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Float-less layouts
Does your approach deal with any column any order? Is this a possibility?
Karl
On Jan 8, 2008 6:15 AM, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My apologies for cross-posting.
I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this article:
http://tjkdesign.com/articles/float-less_css_layouts.asp
Demo:
http://tjkdesign.com/articles/css-
layout/no_div_no_float_no_clear_no_hack_no
_joke.asp
I'll cross-post, too - since I really like the essence of your
approach,
though I'm not fully sold on the lists.
The use of lists is not that serious. It was mostly to make the title of
the article more attractive ;)
not felt good releasing it was because of Dreamweaver's inability to
render
it. Of course, many people on this list probably are not as obsessed
with
Dreamweaver rendering as on the Adobe forum. Perhaps if your exercise
gets a
good response (on Adobe's forum), we can reconsider :-)
Dreamweaver users may use a design-time style sheet to make the layout
behave as a float construct.
For example, with my layout they could use the following:
#s1,#s2,#s3 {float:left;overflow:hidden;border:0;}
#ft {clear:left;}
--
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] Float-less layouts
OOps sorry, read your demo page and it doesn't. Sure, your visual
tabbing might not be the same, but for semantics and SEO, I think its
fairly important to have major content ahead of secondary content in
source-order. I think it makes it much easier for screen-readers too.
Have you tried to explore the possibility of changing the visual
layout of the columns? Perhaps with negative margins similar to how
its done with floats?
Karl
On Jan 8, 2008 9:24 AM, Karl Lurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Does your approach deal with any column any order? Is this a possibility?
Karl
On Jan 8, 2008 6:15 AM, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My apologies for cross-posting.
I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this article:
http://tjkdesign.com/articles/float-less_css_layouts.asp
Demo:
http://tjkdesign.com/articles/css-
layout/no_div_no_float_no_clear_no_hack_no
_joke.asp
I'll cross-post, too - since I really like the essence of your
approach,
though I'm not fully sold on the lists.
The use of lists is not that serious. It was mostly to make the title of
the article more attractive ;)
not felt good releasing it was because of Dreamweaver's inability to
render
it. Of course, many people on this list probably are not as obsessed
with
Dreamweaver rendering as on the Adobe forum. Perhaps if your exercise
gets a
good response (on Adobe's forum), we can reconsider :-)
Dreamweaver users may use a design-time style sheet to make the layout
behave as a float construct.
For example, with my layout they could use the following:
#s1,#s2,#s3 {float:left;overflow:hidden;border:0;}
#ft {clear:left;}
--
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] semantic list with explanations
Definition List? On Jan 9, 2008 2:48 PM, Tim MacKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, Just looking for a little help. I'm creating a sort of 'point form' list that goes a bit like this: 1. Pursuit of customer satisfaction We promise to pursue customer satisfaction as our main point of customer focus…blah blah blah…. 2. Pursuit of customer loyalty We promise to pursue customer loyalty as our secondary point of customer focus…blah blah blah…. What is the best way to semantically mark this up? My first guess would be an ordered list but the definitions underneath don't really allow for it. A definition list doesn't seem very appropriate either because of the wordiness of the explanations; to me a true definition list would only be a few words. Any thoughts? Thanks, Tim *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] semantic list with explanations
I don't think theres any rules about the length of definitions? You are correct sir. A definition list implies to me the expansion of a term through definition. If anything that means the more text the better! I just noticed that Tim's list includes numbering... This means there could be some kind of ordering involved. Also, the quotes around his definitions imply some kind of citation. Perhaps something more like this: ul li dl dtPursuit of customer satisfaction/dt ddqQuote/q/dd /dl /li ... /ul But that is a lot of extra guff. Perhaps it could be as simple as: ul li h2Pursuit of customer satisfaction/h2 qQuote.../q /li ... /ul Like Steve says, each list item would not be read out (I believe even the numbering) by a screenreader. Use of headers would probably be more useful. Karl *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Explorer woes with list dropdowns
IE6 doesn't respect the *:hover pseudo selector if I remember rightly... It only supports it for anchors, e.g a:hover You may have to look at a small bit of javascript to 'activate' this behavior. Im pretty sure this is your problem for IE browsers. Karl On Jan 29, 2008 2:52 PM, Shane Helm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello fellow web standard groupies. I have built a dropdown menu using lists. It works in Firefox and Safari but doesn't seem to work in IE6 or 7. Any suggestions? http://www.treasurehillskihomes.com/TESTING/navtest.html Greatly appreciated! Shane Helm www.sonze.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Explorer woes with list dropdowns
http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/video-digital-cloud-invades-british-airways-first-class-lounge-at-heathrow On Jan 29, 2008 3:40 PM, Karl Lurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IE6 doesn't respect the *:hover pseudo selector if I remember rightly... It only supports it for anchors, e.g a:hover You may have to look at a small bit of javascript to 'activate' this behavior. Im pretty sure this is your problem for IE browsers. Karl On Jan 29, 2008 2:52 PM, Shane Helm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello fellow web standard groupies. I have built a dropdown menu using lists. It works in Firefox and Safari but doesn't seem to work in IE6 or 7. Any suggestions? http://www.treasurehillskihomes.com/TESTING/navtest.html Greatly appreciated! Shane Helm www.sonze.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Explorer woes with list dropdowns
Oops * 2 1st oops for sending the link to the WSG instead of my IM conversation (Damn Google Talk!!!) - Its a pretty cool video though... 2nd oops for looking at Shanes code in Firebug instead of by viewing the source! Karl *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy
I think the opt-in approach is really the only path they can take. They can't very well abandon all the website, intranets, extranets that are coded specifically to take advantage of Microsoft 'features' within older IE browsers. The corporate environment is fairly adverse to change, even on a good day. It's not in Microsoft's best interests to create head-aches for the people that have spent good (or is that 'horrendous amounts of') money on solutions based around their products. Frankly, they cost business serious amounts of money in the first place. Anti-virus is a big cost on which platform again? Anyone? I think the thing to remember here is that, over time, the older browsers will be phased out. When was the last time you worried about IE on Mac? In the mean time, you can be rest-assured (*cough*) that the World's leading software manufacturer's latest browser will, with a flick of tag, transform into a lean-mean standards machine. :) Jokes aside. As the older browsers FINALLY become less important, YEARS from now, they can eliminate the meta-tag altogether. However, this won't affect you because all your pages would be standards compliant and work flawlessly anyway. Man, you just saved yourself a heck of a lot of time. More time than the time it took altering your website templates to include the meta-tag in the first place. Karl On Jan 30, 2008 11:55 AM, Jermayn Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: nothing is wrong with it!! saves times, money, grey hairs and we will all live longer happier lives! If you have a web-based application that will break in IE8, then whats so wrong with adding an HTTP header or a meta tag to say 'use IE7' ? The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy
Train: there is a 6:30 pm overnight train,clean and comfortable, that leaves from Bangkok's Hualomphong Station. You can buy a train + ferry ticket package a day in advance(approx.800 baht) from travel agencies on Kao San Rd. You will arrive at 6 am in Surat Thani and catch a connecting bus to the ferry which leaves 8-9 am. You arrive in Tong Sala on Koh Phangan at 12-1 pm. This is the problem... We should have bought the tickets the day before our journey, which is today! Man, we are looking at a long journey tomorrow night huh. x Karl On Jan 30, 2008 2:58 PM, Christian Snodgrass [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is another possible outcome which is positive. It's more likely (assuming they get the info about the meta-tag out there) that new sites will be developed using this meta-tag and standards-compliance. Eventually, the old sites will be replaced with new ones built in this fashion. Then, when they finally just drop the non-standards-compliance all together, fewer sites will break. They may be hoping for that outcome. Katrina wrote: Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Karl Lurman wrote: I think the thing to remember here is that, over time, the older browsers will be phased out. Jokes aside. As the older browsers FINALLY become less important, YEARS from now, they can eliminate the meta-tag altogether. But the crappy intranet sites etc that are coded specifically to IE6 or IE7's quirks *won't* go away (as that's the whole reason why MS are doing this), so no, the meta tag (and the associated rendering engine) will stay. If they're freezing rendering unless you opt-in because corporates won't update the sites now, what makes you think that they will ever update the sites? Come IE9, the argument will be the same: since IE8 rendered as IE7 by default, we can't now default to standards in IE9 because it would break the sites that didn't have to be updated last time around because of the switch...so, the switch stays. P I agree. But eventually MS are going to get sick of maintaining a rendering engine, I guess IE7 first, and then stop supporting it. Then they will 'break' the web. All they will have done is delayed 'breaking' the web. And because of the delay and the meta-tag, more developers will have grown complacent and lazy (coding for just that rendering engine*), and so the number of sites that will 'break' will have increased. Kat * who can blame them? It's the easy way out. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Christian Snodgrass Azure Ronin Web Design http://www.arwebdesign.net/ http://www.arwebdesign.net Phone: 859.816.7955 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy
Damn, this is the second time in the last two days I have replied to something via the WSG instead of to the person I really meant to send it to. Argghhh GMAIL! Or perhaps its just silly user error... :) Sorry everyone!!! On Jan 30, 2008 3:47 PM, Mark Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Karl Lurman wrote: Train: there is a 6:30 pm overnight train,clean and comfortable, that leaves from Bangkok's Hualomphong Station. You can buy a train + ferry ticket package a day in advance(approx.800 baht) from travel agencies on Kao San Rd. You will arrive at 6 am in Surat Thani and catch a connecting bus to the ferry which leaves 8-9 am. You arrive in Tong Sala on Koh Phangan at 12-1 pm. This is the problem... We should have bought the tickets the day before our journey, which is today! Man, we are looking at a long journey tomorrow night huh. x Karl Well, that makes as much sense as anything out of Microsoft about this, so I guess it's on topic ;-) mark (who, for the record, agrees with Patrick) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] floats not wrapping
You need to work out a way of setting the minimum width of your containing div to ensure that it can never get any smaller than your smallest size. You might also want to consider setting the overflow to hidden for this parent container also, but this may mean your overflowed floated content will 'disappear' - perhaps not desirable. This is fairly easy to achieve with most modern browsers, although you will need a little hack for IE6. Google min-width... Karl On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Taco Fleur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, does anyone know how I can stop floats from wrapping (not sure if thats the right word for it). Best way to explain it is by going to the following page and resize the browser to something smaller than 800px http://www.clickfind.com.au/advertise-online.cfm Once you do that, the right side float starts to go below the first float, which is really not what I want to happen, the browser should just show the horizontal scrollbar when the browser is resized. Would adding a whitespace:nowrap somewhere do the trick? And if so, what kind of support does that have? Maybe I should lay the page out differently? Thanks in advance. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] An efficient CSS architecture
Jens, I recommend googling CSS Frameworks. Also, I recommend looking at a site I implemented a CSS framework of my own. It sounds very very much like your approach. http://www.athletics.com.au It works on the concept of layers that can be used to progressively enhance the visual appearance of a given HTML document set. Its actually the base css framework for a content management solution developed by a company called Datalink here in Melbourne, my previous job. Being part of a CMS, it has a few additional layers to further customise the site with respect to customer requirement. Similarly, I used namespacing to separate styles that are part of the base framework with styles that are customer specific. The beauty of the framework is that it is consistent and easy to learn. The idea being that the framework remained unchanged, and only theme and customer specifc stylesheets affected the cascade. Another added benefit was in knowing which sheet a specific style resides in. This was extremely helpful before the likes of Firebug. The only real draw back of this approach is the initial page load. There is an overhead in downloading so many different stylesheets. The best thing to do in this case is to compile your stylesheets into a single build. This is the approach we are applying at my current job here at SitePoint. Good luck with your own framework! :) Karl On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 4:05 PM, Jens-Uwe Korff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I'm currently in the lucky position to be able to design a CSS architecture from scratch. I was thinking of creating a layered approach where I have a CSS layer for - the CSS reset - the site layout (structural parts, ie. columns, rows, header, footer) - the site's elements (boxes which can be reused across pages; a box might contain images, heading, paragraphs) - the site's skin (colours, sprites etc.) I'd like to know if you have been through this thought process and if you have proven concepts that you would like to share. (You can email me offline too, but we've got a long weekend here so I'll contact you Monday.) Thank you! Cheers, Jens The information contained in this e-mail message and any accompanying files is or may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, dissemination, reliance, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail or any attached files is unauthorised. This e-mail is subject to copyright. No part of it should be reproduced, adapted or communicated without the written consent of the copyright owner. If you have received this e-mail in error please advise the sender immediately by return e-mail or telephone and delete all copies. Fairfax does not guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in this e-mail or attached files. Internet communications are not secure, therefore Fairfax does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message or attached files. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO vs. Accessibility
Just as a side note, instead of doing a -px, try using -999em... In most cases, you can probably even get away with -99em. This has two advantages: 1) Its a few less characters in your CSS 2) If the user increases their font size, there is a chance that the thing you are hiding might start to re-appear from the negative indent. Highly unlikely, because it would have to be bigger than px... However, if you are using em values, increasing the font size should actually move the text further out to the left. In terms of how this technique might affect SEO or accessibility, it has a chance of affecting both. I would take a big guess and say that search engine spiders may look at the amount of content you are moving offscreen - if it considers there to be a lot, it may start to get suspicious. In terms of accessibility, more often than not, image replacement for any text is generally a bad idea IMHO - but that said, I think you are safe to use this technique with a high likelihood that a screen reader will 'read out' the hidden content. Karl On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Hargreaves, Michael michael.hargrea...@originenergy.com.au wrote: If I have a css sprite that needs an alt text I'll position it behind the image. My main reason for doing this has nothing to do with SEO though. With images off there is no context to what would've been rendered if images were on. In my experience you really only need to use this (or the text indent method) for buttons and the like. Most other image elements used (like headers etc) can be specified in html and given an alt. I don't think text-indent will affect SEO at all though, it's a legitimate css property. If the spiders are smart enough to know it's there then they're smart enough to know if it's jammed with an unholy string containing keywords. Michael Hargreaves -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Chris Dimmock Sent: Wednesday, 27 May 2009 12:05 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO vs. Accessibility We can flag text that appears to be hidden using CSS at Google. To date we have not algorithmically removed sites for doing that. We try hard to avoid throwing babies out with bathwater. MattCutts at Oct 21 2005 - 02:09 That was nearly 4 years ago - One of the issues is that sometimes, Google does use automated scaleable' processes for spam control (as is their stated aim) - and sometimes it just rains babies. My point? Any CSS 'hiding' method can be detected algorithmically. And while it might be for accessibility/ usability/ whatever - it could get you in trouble. Mostly it won't, if a human checks it, and there is a accessibility/ usability/ rather than spam intent. But algorithms on their own can't detect 'intent'.. Chris http://www.cogentis.com.au/ On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 10:25 AM, David Dixon da...@terrainferno.net wrote: The thing to remember is that while its doubtful google will spot it through an automatic spider, google do manually check pages (either randomly, or when the spider, or even a person, flag something up). Its that manual detection that will spot this kind of fraud, and will likely result in an immediate ban. regards, David Dixon e: da...@temperedvision.com w: www.temperedvision.com On 26/5/09 17:26, Spellacy, Michael wrote: Hello list! I have a quick question for any accessibility and SEO mavens out there. It was recently brought to my attention that a few elements I have placed on a site that have text indented px to the left for accessibility might be viewed as a form of cloaking by some search engines. Is my colleague correct in this assessment? If so, is there a middle ground that can be met to make search engines and visually impaired folks happy? Thanks in advance! Regards, Spell *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Note: This email, including any attachments, is confidential. If you have
Re: [WSG] Major memory leaking in IE
When you say memory leak, what do you mean? Are you saying it just
runs slower and slower over time, or are you saying that it is just
slow in IE?
Also, I am getting an error in IE7...
Google is your friend
For info on difference between replaceWith and html jQuery methods:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/730916/whats-the-difference-between-jquerys-replacewith-and-html
Be careful with anonymous functions and event handlers:
$('#button').click(function(){
... blargh
});
In some circumstances, this is better:
function blargh() {
... click event stuff
}
$('#button').click(blargh)
Now, blargh is declared only once and evaluated the same... You have
to be careful with 'this' though...
Couple of interesting articles:
http://www.communitymx.com/content/article.cfm?cid=4E137
http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/11/12/google-closure-how-not-to-write-javascript/
Karl
On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 12:23 AM, Mads Erik Forberg m...@hardware.no wrote:
Event delegation helped me alot, still some tweaks I can do with that. But
yeah, splitting data in to smaller chunks would probably help. Also I think
the jQuery.fn.replaceWith method is a bit slow in IE, maybe try to use
jQuery.fn.html() instead.
Does anyone have experience with which method is the fastest when replacing
HTML with jQuery?
Kind regards,
Mads
Den 02.12.2009 14:09, skrev i...@eyemaxstudios.net:
Interesting, I've had similar problems all the way through each IE
incarnation, I had a quick look at your example, with no luck, but then I
didn't test it in IE.
You would think M$ would have been able to fix this problem by now, as it
looks like it's a similar problem as I've always experienced, but was able
to get around it by splitting data up into smaller chunks, and renaming vars
to single chars, and removing white space which also helps speed the code
up and reduce file size.
Regards,
StudioJunkyard.com
Mads Erik Forberg wrote:
Hello,
can anyone help me debug the major memory leakage in IE on this page;
http://www.prisguide.no/kategorier/mobiltelefon
It seems to be the JavaScript when rendering new results after selecting
a filter. I have tweaked it a bit, but seems to be very messy in IE. Runs
with the jQuery 1.3.2 JS-lib.
PS: Don't worry about IE6, we don't support it. :) It's just IE7 and IE8.
Kind regards,
Mads
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Re: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE
Marvin, Have you thought about using a fluid-width layout for your web page? It would ensure your page is viewable on browsers smaller than your current maximum fixed-width. Otherwise, I actually think the rest of your site is fine. The simplicity of it all is so refreshing! :) Karl On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 10:50 AM, Webb, KerryA kerrya.w...@act.gov.au wrote: At 2/3/2010 02:47 PM, Marvin Hunkin wrote: http://www.raulferrer.com/joe/html/ You should check the Top of page links on the Recipes page. They each seem to go to the start of the previous recipe rather than to the top of the Web page. Kerry --- This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies of this transmission along with any attachments immediately. You should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. --- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE
For your named anchor tags (a name=Marvin/a, they don't have to be inside 'p' tags. They *do* need to be inside a block-level element, but they are already inside the 'main_content' div, so you should be fine for validation. Ethically, you probably should make your page more accessible to people with disabilities (vision impaired/blind users, non-mouse users etc). Consider the use of access keys, skip navigation links, title attributes on anchors etc. Luckily, your site's simplicity means it's more accessible than a lot of other sites already!!! :) Good luck! Karl On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Karl Lurman karl.lur...@gmail.com wrote: Marvin, Have you thought about using a fluid-width layout for your web page? It would ensure your page is viewable on browsers smaller than your current maximum fixed-width. Otherwise, I actually think the rest of your site is fine. The simplicity of it all is so refreshing! :) Karl On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 10:50 AM, Webb, KerryA kerrya.w...@act.gov.au wrote: At 2/3/2010 02:47 PM, Marvin Hunkin wrote: http://www.raulferrer.com/joe/html/ You should check the Top of page links on the Recipes page. They each seem to go to the start of the previous recipe rather than to the top of the Web page. Kerry --- This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies of this transmission along with any attachments immediately. You should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. --- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE
Fwiw, I don't agree about accesskeys [1]. The article on your site seems to advocate the use of access keys. The concept of allowing users to define which access keys they can use is an interesting and clever approach. Have you got an example of this out in the wild? There are certainly pitfalls with access keys. That fact there isn't a set of standard access keys across various platforms/browsers, is a real shame and goes against them tremendously. Is this why your feelings on access key usage has changed? Or do you have some other reservations? Using title on anchors is also something I would not do. These links are meaningful already and title is ignored by most screen-reader users anyway. Besides, the tooltip that title creates is often a problem for people using screen magnifiers. I think that any additional content that might help a user, sight impaired or otherwise, can't be a bad thing. It adds to the document's semantic value and might also aid in SEO. You are right however, some screen readers will ignore this 'extra' content (other side of the coin, some will not). I think the problem is that the 'title' attribute is abused or used incorrectly. If it doesn't contain any additional semantic value, then perhaps it should be omitted. I was unaware that screen magnifiers may experience problems with tooltips... Thanks for the tip (no pun intended) on that. Karl *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] jQuery accessibility
Use of any framework does not automatically make your website accessible. JQuery only attempts to make the development of JavaScript more consistent across the various browsers (and, as you so rightly point out, some screen readers as well). You must still provide your own 'accessibility'. Firstly, by adhering to standards compliant mark-up with a focus on the various accessibility guidelines. And secondly, by taking into account JavaScripts operation (or lack thereof) within screen readers. Although this stuff is not rocket science, it's not trivial either, and most importantly, there definitely isn't a magic bullet... Karl On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Grant Bailey grant_malcolm_bai...@westnet.com.au wrote: Hello everyone, Could someone please clarify whether a site built with jQuery is consistent with web standards and accessibility, assuming that the jQuery components: (i) degrade gracefully; and (ii) are not necessary for essential functions (such as navigation). I would be grateful for responses as I am confused about screen reading software: I thought these ignored Javascript but apparently, some are Javascript-capable. Moreover, as Filament Group point out (in this article about collapsible panels), many blind users expect a fully-functioning website. Is accessibility normally built in to jQuery or must we add it ourselves (as Filament Group did)? I would be grateful for any responses. Thank you and kind regards, Grant Bailey *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
