[WSG] Footer on the very bottom of the viewing port
I want to have a footer stuck to the bottom of the browser window, but if the window reduces in size, the footer goes over the top of other page content. What I'd like to do is have the footer stick to the bottom of the browser, except ifit collides with other page content, which will push it down below the bottom of the viewing port and have a vertical scroll bar appear.Is this possible with CSS? I know it's done with tables, because that's how this site is now, butI want to get rid of these tables.CheersMike KearAFP Webworks, Windsor, NSW, Australia. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
[WSG] Why does my menu float high in IE?
Can anyone see why my menu is floating above the content div in IE6? It's supposed to be touching the white area below it, as it does in Firefox and Netscape, but for a reason I can't find, in IE6 it floats above and resists any attempt I've made to bring it to heel. Obviously it's possible to get it to behave, because others have made it do so, but all the things I've tried have come to naught. I'm clearly missing something simple, but can't figure out what it is. I just KNOW its going to be one of those moments when you slap your forehead and say OH YEAH!! OF COURSE!!! The page in question is at http://staging.atalkingdog.com and the style sheet is at http://staging.atalkingdog.com/styles/atalkingdog3.css Cheers, Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia http://afpwebworks.com AFP Webworks Pty Ltd ColdFusion, .asp, .asp.net, php, perl hosting starting at A$15/month.
Re: [WSG] Convert uppercase file names to lower case
Helen there's no need to cringe if you use Dreamweaver. It's an extremely professional development tool. People produce rubbish from it, but other people produce sites that are quite sublime. I do believe there's a setting in DreamweaverMX that allows you to convert all links to lower case. There's a preferences setting that you can specify all lower case tags, all lower case attributes (and also all upper case if you prefer) and if you use the convert to XHTML feature (File Convert to XHTML) it will convert the page to valid XHTML as far as it's able. It will give you warnings for anyhing it's unable to do (e.g. add alt tags to images). Amongst the things in this process is convert all tags to lower case. First of all, convert your page (or pages) to XHTML then select Commands Clean up xhtml and it'll remove deprecated tags, remove any that you want removed, tidy up improperly nested tags, close off unclosed tags such as br, and change all your tags (including href) to lower case. I havent tested it, but I dont think it changes the filename you are 'hreffing' to lower case, but if the page is inside your site, changing its name should have Dreamweaver changing every page that links to it. Hope this helps. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks == ColdFusion, ASP, ASP.NET, PHP, PERL hosting from $15/month. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Convert uppercase file names to lower case Lovely, thanks - I will definitely keep this handy. Now is there any way of making sure all the href urls in the site are in lower case too? I use DW (please don't cringe) and normally when you make a change it updates all the links. Some of the links are mixed case that is why I need to do this as well. Thanks Helen *** Helen Rysavy Web Designer, Teaching Learning Development Charles Darwin University, Northern Territory 0909 Tel: 8946 7779 Mobile: 0403 290 842 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.cdu.edu.au CRICOS Provider No: 00300K ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Floats dont float - can you see what i've got wrong please?
I'm away from all my reference materials, and have net access only 30 minutes a day, so I hope you'll forgive me asking a simple questoin - I've tried everything I can think of and havent been able to fix my problem. the page is at http://www.grandchesterdesigns.com.au/Buffets.htm - content box, surrounded by a red border, ought to be up at the top of the page, alongside the menu (surrounded by the green border) but it isnt. I've floated left, and removed float. I've tried all the position combinations i'can think of, and i've tinked all i can with the location of the divs. Can anyone else see where i've got it wrong? I havent validated the page externally, because i dont have online time to do it. I'll do it when i get back home again next week. but it validates in my own internal validator. The CSS is at http://www.grandchesterdesigns.com.au/styles/GrandchesterDesigns01.css I'd be REALLY grateful if i could get this page looking proper by the weekend, so if anyone could help me, I'd be most grateful. Cheers Mike Kear AFP Webworks Windsor, NSW, Australia.
Re: [WSG] Floats dont float - can you see what i've got wrong please?
Yeah, I know Bert, But i did it in a tent, with the sounds of surf in my ear, and the smell of cool beverages in my nostrils.Whoever said working for yourself was a bad thing!!? So I didnt have all my reference stuff with me, nor access to the net to look up how to do stuff. I just wanted it done as fast as possibled so i could get back down to the beach. It's a temporary site, to hold the fort while i build him a 'proper' site with shopping cart, specification forms for custom quotes etc, so i just wanted his existing catalogue content on the web as fast as i could. Thanks for your help, it fixed the problem. Cheers Mike Kear AFP Webworks Pty Ltd Macromedia Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer. http://afpwebworks.com - Original Message - From: Bert Doorn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Floats dont float - can you see what i've got wrong please? G'day the page is at http://www.grandchesterdesigns.com.au/Buffets.htm - I'd be REALLY grateful if i could get this page looking proper by the weekend, so if anyone could help me, I'd be most grateful. Add the following to #menucontainer: clear:left; float:left; Remove the following from #content: clear:left; That should fix it. I won't comment on the use of tables... OK, I did :-) Regards -- Bert Doorn, Better Web Design http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au/ Fast-loading, user-friendly websites ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)
With radio buttons, no value is passed to the form's action page unless one of the options is selected. This will normally cause an error in the processing page unless special consideration is given to this possibility.Normally if there are radio buttons on the form, it is best to ensure that at least one option is selected.CheersMike KearAFP Webworks Pty LtdWindsor, NSW, Australiahttp://afpwebworks.comIndustrial strength coldfusion, .asp, .asp.net, php hosting from A$15/month - Original Message From: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgTo: "wsg@webstandardsgroup.org" wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: RE: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)Date: 01/02/05 20:56I think this is like FAQs - my FAQ is never there. Likewise, pre-set a controlto option A and I'm equally likely to want option B.IMHO pre-setting options for the user (unless they're VERY obvious) is likemaking assumptions about them.That said, RFC1866 says 'CHECKED' is optional but then says "At all times,exactly one of the radio buttons in a set is checked. If none of the INPUTelements of a set of radio buttons specifies 'CHECKED', then the user agentmust check the first radio button of the set initially."Does anybody know why one button has to be checked "at all times" in acircumstance like Chris referred to?ThanksRowanQuoting Iain Gardiner [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Oops, sorry I didn't really read your question thoroughly. Surely an e-mail address will be either a personal or a business address. Personally I'd set the default to personal as this seems to me the most likely option. Iain -- Iain Gardiner http://www.firelightning.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris W. Parker Sent: 01 February 2005 19:12 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?) Hello, Not sure if this is off topic or not, but let me know if it is. I'm wondering what the suggested default state of a group of radio buttons is? Let me use a current, specific example. In a form I'm writing I have one set of radio buttons. The current options are 'Home', or 'Agency'. The radio button is meant to designate what type of mailing address the customer has provided. Right now I've got neither option being defaulted to. I know that radio buttons should have exactly one option chosen at all times, but in this case it doesn't make sense to add a third option of 'None', or have the group default to one option or the other. How should I handle this? Should I bite the bullet and have the options default to one of the options (both options will probably be chosen an equal amount of times, as has been the case in the past)? Or maybe I should go to a drop down list with three options? 1. '-', 2. 'Home', 3. 'Agency' Your feedback is appreciated. Chris. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help** Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)
There are reasons why you might not want to select a 'default' on radio buttons. It can distort your data.For example, if you have option 1 checked as the default, and a user forgets to choose one of the options, they're selecting option 1 anyway. This may be erroneous data. (Or it may not matter in which case, do whatever you like). For example in a survey, if youindicate any default answers, you are automatically slanting the results, and if someone doesnt make a choice to a question, they wont get a warning popup, instead they will have a selection of your default entered. How will you know which of the results are where users have selected option 1, and which are where they have forgotten to give an answer at all?That's not to say you shouldn't use default answers. I'm saying you shouldn't always use defaults just because the 'normal' practice is to do so. If the radio button gathers important data, another practice could well be to offer no defaults, but instead show a warning or some kind if the user doesnt select one or the other and force them to choose before you process the rest of the form.CheersMike KearAFP Webworks Pty LtdWindsor, NSW, Australia Http://afpwebworks.comIndustrial Strength hosting - coldfusion, .asp, .asp.net, php from AUD$15/month - Original Message From: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgTo: "wsg@webstandardsgroup.org" wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)Date: 01/02/05 22:53IIRC though, while RFC 1866 says "exactly one" the checked attributeis optional in W3C guidelines.HTML 4.01 (and thus also the XHTML 1 series) state:[http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html#radio]If no radio button in a set sharing the same control name isinitially "on", user agent behavior for choosing which control isinitially "on" is undefined.So if you leave them both undefined, some UAs will select the first,some will select neither. I can't see many doing anything else. It'snot standards aversion and I can't see why that's not ok. HTML4.01spec goes on to say that authors should ensure one is selected bydefault but I'm not sure why you need consistant behavior in thiscase.If worst comes to worst, just have whichever one comes first in thepage checked="checked". You'll be "inconveniancing" roughly half thepeople no matter which is checked by default. If neither are thenit's the same "inconvenience" for everyone.I guess I'm saying that I'd consider this a moot point - checkwhichever you'd like and the user will deal with it.Regards,mjecOn Wed, 2 Feb 2005 08:54:31 +1100, Wybrow, Mark[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or pass hidden parameters onto the action page ... these then can be over ridden if the radio is selected ____ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Kear Sent: Wednesday, 2 February 2005 2:51 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?) With radio buttons, no value is passed to the form's action page unless one of the options is selected. This will normally cause an error in the processing page unless special consideration is given to this possibility. Normally if there are radio buttons on the form, it is best to ensure that at least one option is selected. Cheers Mike Kear AFP Webworks Pty Ltd Windsor, NSW, Australia http://afpwebworks.com Industrial strength coldfusion, .asp, .asp.net, php hosting from A$15/month - Original Message From: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To: "wsg@webstandardsgroup.org" wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?) Date: 01/02/05 20:56 I think this is like FAQs - my FAQ is never there. Likewise, pre-set a control to option A and I'm equally likely to want option B. IMHO pre-setting options for the user (unless they're VERY obvious) is like making assumptions about them. That said, RFC1866 says 'CHECKED' is optional but then says "At all times, exactly one of the radio buttons in a set is checked. If none of the INPUT elements of a set of radio buttons specifies 'CHECKED', then the user agent must check the first radio button of the set initially." Does anybody know why one button has to be checked "at all times" in a circumstance like Chris referred to? Thanks Rowan Quoting Iain Gardiner [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Oops, sorry I didn't really read your question thoroughly. Surely an e-mail address will be either a personal or a business address. Personally I'd set the default to personal as this seems to me the most likely option. Iain -- Iain Gardiner http://www.firelightning.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris W. Parker Sent: 01 February 2005 19:12 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?) Hello, Not su
Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)
Perhaps, Kornel, but in that case how to you tell the difference between responses where people preferred not to say/didn't know (i.e. an answer to the question), and where people didn't answer the question or didnt notice it?There are cases where a default is a bad thing, and you need to be able to handle forms with no answer, rather than providing a default. In another example, providing a default may slant your responses in favour of the default, because respondents think that's the answer you're wanting. Ever-obliging they tend to give the answer they think the questioner wants.--CheersMike KearWindsor, NSW, AustraliaCertified Advanced ColdFusion DeveloperAFP Webworkshttp://afpwebworks.comColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month - Original Message Good surveys need "don't know/prefer not to answer" for every question andthat might be a good default.--regards, Kornel Lesiñskihttp://browsehappy.pl Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)
Well I got involved in it because (i thought) someone said at the beginning of this thread that it was only valid markup if a set of radio buttons had one and only one 'checked' item.My point was that regardless of the validity of the code, it is sometimes invalid communications/user interface to have one and only one 'checked' item at all times. I said, and still hold to the view, that sometimes a form has to be presented with none of the radio buttons 'checked'.That's the relevance to standards - i.e. that if it's only standard if there is a default radio button and never valid if none of them are 'checked' then the standard is wrong and ought to be changed.CheersMike KearWindsor, NSW, AustraliaCertified Advanced ColdFusion DeveloperAFP Webworkshttp://afpwebworks.comColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month - Original Message From: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgTo: "WSG" wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)Date: 02/02/05 03:56I hesitantly suggest a good place for this discussion would be on JustinFrench's Interface list.http://lists.indent.com.au/mailman/listinfo/interfaceCheersChris Blown Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Menu sits above the line in IE - anyone see why?
I've been trying to figure this one out for a while now, and I can't see what's wrong. (I'm learning - but painfully slowly it seems) The top navigation menu sits where it's supposed to in Firefox (the bottom of the menu should touch the top of the white 'content' area) but in IE it's about 20pixels higher. Can anyone see where I've got it wrong? I've tried everything I can think of but obviously havent found the right tweak yet. The page is at http://staging.atalkingdog.com/goArticle.cfm?pid=799713 and the CSS is at http://staging.atalkingdog.com/styles/atalkingdog3.css --CheersMike KearWindsor, NSW, AustraliaCertified Advanced ColdFusion DeveloperAFP Webworkshttp://afpwebworks.comColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Peekaboo Bug giving problems
I seem to be chasing the IE peekaboo bug around my web page. Every time I get rid of it in one place, it gets fixed, only to reveal itself somewhere else. Can anyone see whats causing it to happen now? The page is at http://atalkingdog.com and the CSS is at http://atalkingdog.com/styles/atalkingdog3.css Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com Business Strength ColdFusion,PHP,ASP,ASP.NET hosting from $15/Month
RE: [WSG] new mycareer.com.au design
Nice Job, Peter. You have every right to be proud of it. Incidentally I'm not sure why you'd want a max salary field, unless you've ever heard of someone saying what??? No!!! You're not going to pay me that much! I'm only going to work for half that That's certainly an expression I can't imagine ever uttering myself. Good work. You're a leader in our industry. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia http://afpwebworks.com .com, .net, .org etc domains start at A$20 / year Full scale ColdfusionMX hosting from $15/month. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bert Doorn Sent: Wednesday, 27 April 2005 3:10 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] new mycareer.com.au design G'day [snip] One more thing and then I'll go In Firefox, if I click on the dropdown for maximum salary, it does not let me select (it appears, then disappears immediately). I have to hold my mouse down and drag to make a selection. Annoying.\ [snip] -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.3 - Release Date: 25/04/2005 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Sydney WSG meeting tonight
I'd love to be there, but sadly Thursday nights is bad for me I have a totally inflexible other commitment. But I wish you all well, and I'll be thinking of you while I try to keep my eyelids from drooping with the boredom of what I have to do instead. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia http://afpwebworks.com .com, .net, .org etc domains start at A$20 / year Full scale ColdfusionMX hosting from $15/month. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Firminger Sent: Thursday, 28 April 2005 9:20 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Sydney WSG meeting tonight Just a reminder as we only have 6 RSVPs so far and that means there won't be much beer/wine/food purchased. If you're coming and haven't let us know you might want to think about shooting off an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] before I leave the Hunter Valley to do the shopping at 11am or we may all be fighting over the last bottle of beer. http://webstandardsgroup.org/go/event34.cfm Regards, Peter Firminger *** http://webboy.net/ info@webboy.net +612 49983388 +614 12932269 *** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.4 - Release Date: 27/04/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.4 - Release Date: 27/04/2005 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] BIIIIIIIG white space in Firefox not IE6
Can anyone see where Ive got this wrong please? In Firefox1.0, the content in the body aligns below the image in the left column. At first I thought it was a width issue Id made the content too wide for the size of the div, but thats not the case. No matter how wide I set the screen (and Ive just recently been able to set it to 1600!! Brag brag) it still aligns below the lowest content on the left. Ive tried everything I can think of, but Im obviously unable to think of the proper solution.Can anyone help please? The page in question is at http://atalkingdog.com/goArticle.cfm?pid=11 (and yes, thats me so no personal comments!) Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia http://afpwebworks.com .com, .net, .org etc domains start at A$20 / year Full scale ColdfusionMX hosting from $15/month. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.4 - Release Date: 27/04/2005 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] BIIIIIIIG white space in Firefox not IE6
Thanks Bert - you pointed me at the problem . I have 'clear:left' in lots of places. So that's solved that problem. Now I have another http://atalkingdog.com/goarticle.cfm?pid=716354 shows a series of paragraphs with pointers to other pages. But now they're indenting and not clearing. If I put a 'clear:left' in the teaserpara div, which contains these things it messes up the page horribly. Whats' the best way I can fix this? Page is at http://atalkingdog.com/goarticle.cfm?pid=716354 and the relevant style sheets are at http://atalkingdog.com/styles/atalkingdog3.css and http://atalkingdog.com/styles/formstyles.css -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bert Doorn Sent: Friday, 29 April 2005 4:16 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] BIIIG white space in Firefox not IE6 G'day http://atalkingdog.com/goArticle.cfm?pid=11 Can't quite see all causes of the problem but your clearing of h1 is a contributing factor - it clears the menu div on left, so it drops down to the next line. You may have other issues that are contributing but I haven't got time to analyse all those nested divs and the corresponding CSS. Regards -- Bert Doorn, Better Web Design http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au/ Fast-loading, user-friendly websites -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.4 - Release Date: 27/04/2005 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Chrome now higher traffic than IE
For the first time since I started building web sites, IE is not the most prominent server on my two highest traffic sites. Google Chrome now amounts to over half the traffic on these sites. Not sure what that means for us as web developers, but it would certainly be significant for Microsoft people if it was translated across the web. Of course other sites will have a different pattern, depending on the audience. On these two sites, the breakdown is like this: Unknown: 1.86% IE: 38.85% Bots,Spiders: 1.47% Firefox: 4.91% Google Chrome: 51.35% Opera: 0.72% Safari: 0.46% Netscape: 0.22% Other: 0.15% - Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Chrome now higher traffic than IE
Oops.There's a senior moment. Of course I mean IE is not the highest traffic BROWSER on these two sites of mine, not SERVER. Sorry. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Mike Kear Sent: Tuesday, 3 March 2009 12:03 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Chrome now higher traffic than IE For the first time since I started building web sites, IE is not the most prominent server on my two highest traffic sites. Google Chrome now amounts to over half the traffic on these sites. Not sure what that means for us as web developers, but it would certainly be significant for Microsoft people if it was translated across the web. Of course other sites will have a different pattern, depending on the audience. On these two sites, the breakdown is like this: Unknown: 1.86% IE: 38.85% Bots,Spiders: 1.47% Firefox: 4.91% Google Chrome: 51.35% Opera: 0.72% Safari: 0.46% Netscape: 0.22% Other: 0.15% - Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1974 - Release Date: 02/26/09 14:51:00 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Chrome now higher traffic than IE
In my case, the sample is fairly small, and I never suggested it was representative of the internet as a whole. The bigger of the two sites I've used is a radio station. It has 54,000 user sessions in that set of stats. All I was saying is it's the first time I've seen IE as not the top browser. (one swallow does not a summer make!) It's clear from this discussion that the numbers are all over the place. There are people at the radio station who try to tell me that the world is going mac and we ought to be replacing our network to macs. I say these stats don't support that, at least in our case, and whether or not we should replace our network to macs needs to be for a reason other than 'that's what everyone else is using'! (which was never a good reason in the first place!) There were those who were saying not all that long ago that IE was a gonner, and we'd all best pay attention to Opera. Then along came Firefox, now I'd suggest it's anyone's race and the main contenders are IE, Firefox, Chrome and all the others together add up to a long way behind. The significance for us as web developers is that all this competition is tending towards standardisation. If things had been different, it could easily have gone along the lines of our browser is better because it has all these proprietary commands it understands. Remember how it was in the days when Netscape and IE were the only ones on the block? They would each try to outdo each other with new features they were developing and the whole idea of standardisation was a pipe dream. We had to develop a IE version and a Netscape version of our sites. Now, the browsers are righting with each other to be more standard than the others. THAT makes life a LOT easier for us! As long as no one has any overpowering majority, they all have to pay attention to each other. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Al Sparber Sent: Tuesday, 3 March 2009 4:23 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Chrome now higher traffic than IE From: Nick Cowie cowie.n...@gmail.com OK here are some other interesting stats from another major library site, IE7 rules and Chrome is 0.5% Browser Website IE7/IE6 Internet Explorer 86.88% (80/20) Firefox 9.29% Safari 2.17% Chrome0.47% Opera 0.27% Fascinating. Can you provide some demographic context to this library site? -- Al Sparber - PVII http://www.projectseven.com Dreamweaver Menus | Galleries | Widgets http://www.projectseven.com/go/pop The Ultimate DW Menu System *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Chrome now higher traffic than IE
Enough people have told me their figures are completely different to mine, but I don't much care about that. The point is the same - while IE is no longer the towering majority in the web browser wars, we have a fighting chance of bringing sanity to browsers. If IE7 became the 80%-90% browser like IE5 once was, then at Microsoft they'll be starting to say once more we don't have to care about standards - we ARE the standard and everyone else will have to match what we do! Thankfully, Firefox and Chrome are going to ensure Microsoft doesn't get into that position again. TO answer your specific question, William, yes I use Chrome myself while I'm developing but i hardly ever browse the site. I usually browse the development version of this site while I'm working on it, and only ever go to the production version of the site to check a page I've just uploaded is the same as on my dev machine. So my own browsing is not significant in those numbers. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com http://afpwebworks.com Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of William Donovan Sent: Tuesday, 3 March 2009 10:54 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Chrome now higher traffic than IE You don't by any chance use chrome yourself while you're developing? I noticed that I mainly use Firefox and I had to stop going back to the site after it was built to allow the data / statistics to clean themselves of my bias. William Donovan mobile: 0403 263 284 2009/3/3 Mike Kear w...@afpwebworks.com In my case, the sample is fairly small, and I never suggested it was representative of the internet as a whole. The bigger of the two sites I've used is a radio station. It has 54,000 user sessions in that set of stats. All I was saying is it's the first time I've seen IE as not the top browser. (one swallow does not a summer make!) It's clear from this discussion that the numbers are all over the place. There are people at the radio station who try to tell me that the world is going mac and we ought to be replacing our network to macs. I say these stats don't support that, at least in our case, and whether or not we should replace our network to macs needs to be for a reason other than 'that's what everyone else is using'! (which was never a good reason in the first place!) There were those who were saying not all that long ago that IE was a gonner, and we'd all best pay attention to Opera. Then along came Firefox, now I'd suggest it's anyone's race and the main contenders are IE, Firefox, Chrome and all the others together add up to a long way behind. The significance for us as web developers is that all this competition is tending towards standardisation. If things had been different, it could easily have gone along the lines of our browser is better because it has all these proprietary commands it understands. Remember how it was in the days when Netscape and IE were the only ones on the block? They would each try to outdo each other with new features they were developing and the whole idea of standardisation was a pipe dream. We had to develop a IE version and a Netscape version of our sites. Now, the browsers are righting with each other to be more standard than the others. THAT makes life a LOT easier for us! As long as no one has any overpowering majority, they all have to pay attention to each other. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Al Sparber Sent: Tuesday, 3 March 2009 4:23 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Chrome now higher traffic than IE From: Nick Cowie cowie.n...@gmail.com OK here are some other interesting stats from another major library site, IE7 rules and Chrome is 0.5% Browser Website IE7/IE6 Internet Explorer 86.88% (80/20) Firefox 9.29% Safari 2.17% Chrome0.47% Opera 0.27% Fascinating. Can you provide some demographic context to this library site? -- Al Sparber - PVII http://www.projectseven.com Dreamweaver Menus | Galleries | Widgets http://www.projectseven.com/go/pop The Ultimate DW Menu System *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
RE: [WSG] Chrome now higher traffic than IE
As I said I hardly ever browse the production site. It's hardly worth the effort.Out of the 54,000 page views in the figures I was quoting earlier, my own browsing would account for maybe 50 . Hardly more than that - I do my development off line using my own dev server, then only check a page looks like it's supposed to after I upload it. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com http://afpwebworks.com Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Matthew Pennell Sent: Wednesday, 4 March 2009 12:36 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Chrome now higher traffic than IE On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 11:53 AM, William Donovan donovan.will...@gmail.com wrote: You don't by any chance use chrome yourself while you're developing? I noticed that I mainly use Firefox and I had to stop going back to the site after it was built to allow the data / statistics to clean themselves of my bias. You can (and should) filter out your own visits by IP address within Analytics reports. - Matthew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Was given a shocker this week ...
You might be amused to learn about the site I was given to rebuild this week.It was built by a photographer who had a mac and some free software, and the client said the problem was she had to get someone to update it for her every time she changed anything in her business. She wanted a content management system. That's no problem for me - that's mostly what I do . But I was appalled when I saw the site she was asking me to rebuild .. . here's what I found - the work of a woman who was claiming to be a professional web designer: [A] the site consisted of 8 html pages [B] each page consisted of some invalid html code produced by a WYSIWYG app, presumably used incorrectly since most WYSIWYG apps are CAPABLE of producing valid code. [C] the content on each page consisted of a single image for the header 1169px x 168px and another jpg image with all the text, photos etc 702px x 961px [D] because of the sizes of the header image and the body image, none of the pages could ever possibly line up across the page without a lot of tinkering about. [E] the html contained no content whatever, except the name of the designer [F] all links inside the pages were using image maps - something I haven't used for about ten years. I don't think I'd even remember how to do that now if I had to. [G] the layout problems caused by the different widths of the header and the image in the body were corrected by nesting tables with lots of cells and a transparent spacer gif to stretch the cells out. I didn't bother working out why there were so many of these spacer tables, I knew at a glance I wasn't going to be needing anything in this code! [H] because my client has had such trouble getting her site updated on a timely basis, she has taken the site away and is hosting it with me, which has sparked off a war between my client and her former web designer, complaining that I have taken her site by using a web archive, in violation of her rights to copyright. (As a first step, I used a browser to copy the files from her existing site, so I could see what's in there, just in case the former designer decided to take it off line.Which she did. So it was a good precaution. Then while my client and I are discussing her new site, I put the existing one up in her new hosting space with me just so the site stays alive while we work out what to do.You can almost hear the former web designer frothing at the mouth as she rants and raves on the phone DEMANDING that I pull everything down off the web within ONE HOUR - OR ELSE!!) It's like a cat fight.I'm expecting to see them both pulling each others hair, biting, and rolling in the mud any time soon. Anyway, I'd done quite a few sites now that I've enhanced by making them standards compliant, but I think this is the most extreme case I've seen - well since I tried Frontpage v2.0 all those years ago. Maybe I can write it up as a case study later when the new site is up. If the client agrees. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] PNG - how cross-browser standard reliable?
I'm looking at a whole bunch of icons to use in a new app I'm building, and rather than convert them all to gifs, I was thinking of leaving them as the .png format they are now.They work on all the browsers I use, but I'm wondering what everyone else's experience has been of using .pngs in web pages. Last time I tried using a png, I found it worked ok in some browsers and not in others. Is this still a relevant issue? Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com http://afpwebworks.com Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] SEO - how to upgrade my skills?
Thanks for that little gem, Luke.I was kind of hoping for advice on the best way to learn more about SEO, and the most up todate techniques. I got a bit depressed when I googled SEO, and the first 50 or so results on what I searched for had dates in 2005. I feel sure that SEO has changed since 2005. Maybe it hasn't. And my site is out of date and is being upgraded. Those errors you refer to are a result of the WYSIWYG inline editor I used on my AFPv3.1 CMS. It's since been brought up to date and on the AFPv4.0CMS's I'm installing for clients the results are up todate and much more compliant. I'll upgrade my own site when I get time, but paying work takes precedence over non-paying work in our household. Thanks for pointing it out. Just what I needed. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com http://afpwebworks.com Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Luke Hoggett Sent: Monday, 11 May 2009 4:22 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO - how to upgrade my skills? HI, The internet is a great resource. You won't get a certificate from it, but you will learn. btw your site has 62 validation errors, even transitional XHTML doesn't like href=http://afpwebworks.com/Index.cfm?pid=25 with no quotes on the attribute. also font id deprecated. Cheers Luke Mike Kear wrote: I'm sorry if this is off topic. I think it crosses over standards because it relates in a way, I hope you'll be a bit forgiving to me... I need to upgrade my Search Engine Optimisation skills. I've had quite good success at getting good rankings for my clients with attention to standards, good practices with design and coding, but I feel I need to know more about SEO and ought to update my skills in this area. I need to learn more about current techniques and become more skilful at the techniques I use. So I'm asking for your advice.What's the best way for me to update SEO skills? Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.23/2106 - Release Date: 05/10/09 07:02:00 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] SEO - how to upgrade my skills?
I'm sorry if this is off topic. I think it crosses over standards because it relates in a way, I hope you'll be a bit forgiving to me... I need to upgrade my Search Engine Optimisation skills. I've had quite good success at getting good rankings for my clients with attention to standards, good practices with design and coding, but I feel I need to know more about SEO and ought to update my skills in this area. I need to learn more about current techniques and become more skilful at the techniques I use. So I'm asking for your advice.What's the best way for me to update SEO skills? Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] OT: Dominos Pizza - Looking for someone who's worked there
This is off-topic for this list so please respond direct to me rather than the list ... I'm looking to have a quick chat to someone who's worked at Dominos Pizza some time in the last 5 years - not necessarily in the IT area - even someone who's delivered pizzas would do. But if you've worked there or know something of how they operate, I'd be grateful if you could contact me. (Just being a customer isn't enough - I am too) I need to ask a fairly basic question about an aspect of their operations - I wont be asking you to break any confidences and its not for any competing project. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 02-4577-4898 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Why does IE show text decoration on these buttons?
Thanks a lot for everyone who has shown interest in my little issue.
The problem is around the menubar at the top of this site. They're in a
table cell that's specified as follows:
td colspan=3 id=menubar align=center
They are images with no rollover activity required.The IE style sheet,
called uniquecelebrations_iehacks.css has the following:
#menubar a:link,
#menubar a:visited {
text-decoration: none;
}
#menubar a:hover,
#menubar a:active {
text-decoration: none;
border: none;
font-weight: normal;
}
I have checked that these rules do indeed select the button images in
question by putting a ridiculously large border in the hover/active rule,
and I have seen the border appear and disappear when the mouse rolls over
them. So I know these rules select what I want them to. What I don't
understand is why these rules don't override the text-decoration: underline
which is required elsewhere in the site.
There's a screenshot of what I'm talking about at
http://uniquecelebrations.com.au/screenshot.jpg. In my system this problem
doesn't appear in Chrome or Firefox but does appear in IE7.
http://uniquecelebrations.com.au/
Cheers
Mike Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
0414 622 847
Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer
AFP Webworks Pty Ltd
http://afpwebworks.com
Full Scale ColdFusion 9 hosting from A$15/month
-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Harish Chouhan
Sent: Monday, 3 May 2010 3:52 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Why does IE show text decoration on these buttons?
Hello Mike,
I checked your website in FireFox, IE8, IE7 IE6, it behaves same
everywhere. A screenshot of the issue you are saying would help. Also trying
adding a !important next to the text decoration rule in the CSS for IE7.
Regards,
Harish Chouhan
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The solution (was: [WSG] Why does IE show text decoration on these buttons?)
Ei Sabai Nyo, thank you, you win the prize! By golly it works. When I saw your suggestion, I thought to myself 'that wont work what's background got to do with it?' but I tried it anyway, and the issue has been fixed. So now I have to ask why does it work? What made you say that? Background was waay down on my list of things to check out. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0414 622 847 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com Full Scale ColdFusion 9 hosting from A$15/month From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Ei Sabai Nyo Sent: Monday, 3 May 2010 4:06 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest If you set background: transparent to the a:hover for those navigation items, it will solve the issue. Anansi Web Development - http://www.anansi.com.au/ Web Development Blog - http://eisabainyo.net/weblog/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Need a fresh eye - can anyone see what's wrong please?
I have a draft layout for a client that is fine in all respects except that
in IE8, the background image in the footer is missing.
Here's the page concerned:
http://afpwebworks.com/strikingdistance/index.cfm
And the footer div rule is as follows for IE (I have a IE-only style sheet)
:
#footer {
color: #d9d9d9;
background-image: #33 url(images/Footer_background_s1.jpg);
background-repeat: repeat-x;
background-position: top;
min-height: 96px;
}
Both the HTML and the CSS validate ok.
So does any one see what I have wrong for IE?
Cheers
Mike Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer
AFP Webworks
http://afpwebworks.com
ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month
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RE: [WSG] Need a fresh eye - can anyone see what's wrong please?
YEP! That did the trick. I thought i'd checked all those things, but i missed that one on the IE-Only style sheet. Thanks. I knew having a fresh eye look at it would see something that i was too close to to notice - couldn't see the wood for the trees. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Tatham Oddie Sent: Wednesday, 1 December 2010 4:14 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Need a fresh eye - can anyone see what's wrong please? Mike, This line is invalid: background-image: #33 url(images/Footer_background_s1.jpg); You're defining both the color *and* the url in the image property. Either change it to: background-image: url(images/Footer_background_s1.jpg); background-color: #33; or: background: #33 url(images/Footer_background_s1.jpg); This is invalid across all browsers, it's just that IE8 is the only one that seems to actually care. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Detecting Mobile user agent - what methods work best?
I have to convert a client site to enable phone users to use the site and I was wondering what is the best method to detect the mobile user agent and switch the css sheet? As far as I have seen, there are a few ways to do this - which is best? (or maybe the way to put it is 'least bad') [A] a link at the top of the normal page, linking to a mobile version of the page. (yuk) [B] javascript detection (but there are thousands of mobile devices to detect. YUK ) [C] Use CSS @media handheld (but many mobile phones don't support the handheld media type ) [D] server side detection using CGI.User_Agent (but there are so many user agents to detect) [E] screen resolution detection (but is that reliable?) Are there any other ways to do this? How do the rest of you handle serving pages to both computer screens and mobile device screens?? Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Detecting Mobile user agent - what methods work best?
David, this is a variation on the logic that freed us all from the worst of the IE quirks way back then. IF you remember back then, most of us would build our sites for IE5, the drive ourselves crazy trying to put in hacks for all the other browsers. (well **I** did anyway!) That was until someone came up with the simple strategy that was one of those forehead-slapping moments Build for all the standards based browsers, then add hacks for the quirks of IE. DOH!! This is a bit like that.Instead of trying to build a site with hacks/quirks/switches for mobile,build a site for mobile, with fall-back for any phones you don't detect to a standards based browser, and let them scroll back and forth if necessary. SIMPLE. Worth following up, and I'll do some experiments with this in mind. Good thinking David. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of David Hucklesby Sent: Friday, 7 January 2011 5:00 PM Rather than doing a switch for mobile agents, I read recently a proposal to do basic styling for mobile first. Then filter advanced styles for browsers, from smart phones to desktops that understand @media queries, simply by declaring some @media filters at the bottom of the style sheet. I don't remember where I read it, but it seems to me to have other advantages--old browsers like IE6 would only get the simple styles, too, making it much easier to give IE6 visitors a pleasant experience without the usual extensive fix-ups some layouts seem to need. While I don't have a link to the original, very short article, the idea has been taken up by others: http://www.slideshare.net/bryanrieger/rethinking-the-mobile-web-by-yiibu (If that breaks, try http://goo.gl/VqJE ) The downside is that neither IE7 nor IE8 understand @media queries. The idea I am playing with uses Paul Irish's Conditional stylesheets vs CSS hacks idea to filter rules for IE 6-8. http://paulirish.com/2008/conditional-stylesheets-vs-css-hacks-answer-neith er/ (Broken? try http://goo.gl/CRQY ) I'll certainly be interested in any other possibilities. I have not got very far with this myself... Cordially, David *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] How do you cater to users with disabilities?
How to the rest of you a/b people (i.e. able bodied) cater to users with various forms of disability? Up until recently, I've tended to rely on keeping my code to standards, eliminating tables except for their proper purpose of tabulating data, and hoping that will give the accessibility level required. Do you go to the step of accessing your sites with JAWS or something similar to see how the site works for users with screen readers? I remember in the 1990s when I was working at Australian Consumers Association (choice.com.au) we had someone come and bring his PC with JAWS. The web team all sat in the boardroom getting ever more glum looks on our faces as we saw to our horror how terrible our new design was for this poor guy. We thought we'd got a terrific new design, and were about to launch it, when he did this demo for us. We had to go back and recode everything. This was before anyone was talking about standards though - it was back when the normally accepted method of laying out pages was to use tables, and buttons were nearly always images. I remember being astounded at how fast he was moving around the page, even though we'd unwittingly designed an obstacle course of humungous proportions for him. Our anguish at the time resulted in a far better web site, and convinced me to pay attention to standards and accessibility ever since. But now I'm wondering if simply sticking to standards is enough? What do you all think? Do you include JAWS in your site testing? Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] How do you cater to users with disabilities?
The conclusion I am coming to, with 5 days since I asked this and no-one actually saying they do ANYTHING to cater for people with disabilities, is that even after all this time, no one really spends much time thinking about users with special needs, other than to code to standards and hope that does the trick. No one either agreed or disagreed with the proposition that sticking to standards IS in fact enough. I asked this question, wondering if someone would say 'yes we have a usability lab' or 'we have a consultant who runs our sites through his screen reader for us' or 'we have meetings before launch specifically to discuss' or something. But no one has said they do anything at all for users with disability. The only responses I've had to this question are people referring me to documents on line that I found long ago with google. I was interested that none of the people who gave me those URLS (except Josh Street) said they actually used the advice in the documents themselves. Josh wasn't specific about how he caters to people with special needs, but seems to speak with some knowledge so I'm assuming he caters to Dyslexics in his designs. I guess it's going to take another law suit like that one against the Olympics2000 site to get anyone to take users with special needs seriously and actually lift a finger to cater to their needs. The conclusion I'm being forced towards is that developers are basically saying that users with special needs will have to swim for themselves and it's up to them to find some software of their own to get around all the obstacles the A/Bs put in their way. I'm glad at least property developers have been forced to change that attitude. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Mike Kear Sent: Thursday, 18 August 2011 11:12 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] How do you cater to users with disabilities? How to the rest of you a/b people (i.e. able bodied) cater to users with various forms of disability? Up until recently, I've tended to rely on keeping my code to standards, eliminating tables except for their proper purpose of tabulating data, and hoping that will give the accessibility level required. Do you go to the step of accessing your sites with JAWS or something similar to see how the site works for users with screen readers? I remember in the 1990s when I was working at Australian Consumers Association (choice.com.au) we had someone come and bring his PC with JAWS. The web team all sat in the boardroom getting ever more glum looks on our faces as we saw to our horror how terrible our new design was for this poor guy. We thought we'd got a terrific new design, and were about to launch it, when he did this demo for us. We had to go back and recode everything. This was before anyone was talking about standards though - it was back when the normally accepted method of laying out pages was to use tables, and buttons were nearly always images. I remember being astounded at how fast he was moving around the page, even though we'd unwittingly designed an obstacle course of humungous proportions for him. Our anguish at the time resulted in a far better web site, and convinced me to pay attention to standards and accessibility ever since. But now I'm wondering if simply sticking to standards is enough? What do you all think? Do you include JAWS in your site testing? Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] CSS3 Development tools?
I've been using TopStyle4 for developing my CSS files, but it still isn't supporting CSS3. What tools are you others using to develop CSS3 files? Yes I realise that you really don't need anything more than notepad to write a CSS file, but a proper tool gives you syntax checking, code hinting, a colour picker, bracket balancing, that kind of thing. I'm developing enough with CSS3 rules now, that I'm looking for a tool to assist me and speed up my development. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] CSS3 Development tools?
Thanks Carlo. Perhaps i should also add that I build dynamic ColdFusion sites, and use Dreamweaver CS5.5 for my development tool. Few CF developers use Dreamweaver - they tend to use Eclipse or its derivatives. I have found that Dreamweaver doesn't do much for CSS, unless you use the so-called WYSIWYG design mode - and that's a hopelessly inefficient mode for efficient dynamic pages. Specially when you're using modular software design, with things like ColdSpring handling the component management etc. And since all my display pages have a header file that holds the CSS calls, the body pages never have the CSS classes available. That's why I have been using TopStyle for developing style sheets - it is stand-alone and doesn't require the dynamic pages to exist before it can display a sample of the effect you're coding. I just wish TopStyle was available to handle CSS3. I assume it will be one day, but I need a tool to help me NOW. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of carlo juancho funtanilla Sent: Wednesday, 12 October 2011 4:32 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS3 Development tools? Try Dreamweaver CS5 On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 7:38 AM, Mike Kear w...@afpwebworks.com wrote: I've been using TopStyle4 for developing my CSS files, but it still isn't supporting CSS3. What tools are you others using to develop CSS3 files? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] More on spam traps
I think its important to give the spammer no indication that you are onto
them. If you give them any kind of feedback, they can use that to work a
way through your maze.The filters i use (which are similar to yours on
the client side, but I also use some tests on the server side, but the
submitter sees the same result either way. Even if the submission is just
discarded to the bitbucket in the sky. They have no way to know their
submission has been discarded.
Cheers
Mike Kear
AFP Webworks
Windsor, NSW, Australia
http://afpwebworks.com
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of coder
Sent: Wednesday, 22 August 2012 9:38 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] More on spam traps
Hi All,
I have recently attempted to 'trap' spammers who use autofilling tactics on
the site at www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk. This is written in html5 and uses
a mixture of simple tests to validate the form. However, yesterday I recvd
a mail thus:
_
. name
* igmgrtasel
. email
*
. hidden
* -9
. comments
* CaWePF a href=http://ipdszgwutyvp.com/;ipdszgwutyvp/a,
[url=http://fkpbtvpaxitv.com/]fkpbtvpaxitv[/url],
[link=http://rtcdalwdjrkb.com/]rtcdalwdjrkb[/link], http://xsejahukjzdr.com/
. send
* send message .
_
The script I used to validate the form is this:
script type=text/javascript
function validateForm()
{
var x=document.forms[contact][email].value;
var atpos=x.indexOf(@);
var dotpos=x.lastIndexOf(.);
if (atpos1 || dotposatpos+2 || dotpos+2=x.length)
{
alert(This is Not a valid e-mail address);
return false;
}
//
var y=document.forms[contact][hidden].value;
if (y==null || y==)
{
return true;}
else
{
alert(I think you are a machine)
return false;
}
}
!--// --
function check(node)
{
var re = new RegExp('[\[\\]]', 'g');
document.getElementById('send').disabled = re.test(node.value);
}
/script
and it works locally and online. However the mail I quote from above is
completely unaffected. Does this mean I give up trying, or what?
Any thing?
Thanks,
Bob
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5212 - Release Date: 08/20/12
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