So, given that the W3C buttons enforce compliancy by returning errors if the
page isn't valid, what's wrong with them again?
I actually sport mine with some pride and have had several visitors comment
on the fact. Sure, some of their comments have been along the lines of what
are they for? and
Trolling?
:)
Tip:(unrelated to this dead thread)
I found this good reference: a list of commonly confused HTML special characters
http://www.cs.sfu.ca/~ggbaker/reference/characters/#single
Paul
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alan
I find it hard to believe but it looks like it's using an image file to draw
the button?!?!
I'v enever noticed this before. Perhaps I've never had buttons that long.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Tim Burgan
Sent: Thursday, 8 December
That just sounds like ignorance to me but perhaps they'd be more comfortable
with Table of Contents, given that most site maps are nothing more than this
anyway?
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Gerardo Chairez [Addictive Media]
Sent:
Not so. It depends on Apache and how it's configured.
You can check how PHP is set up by creating a new PHP page and just inlcude
the following:
?php phpinfo() ?
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Stephen Stagg
Sent: Friday, 9 December 2005
Thanks for that, Russ. I hadn't come across that neat chart before. Handy
reference.
But now I find myself confused by a couple of the elements listed as
optional (O); namely the HEAD and BODY tags. Optional?
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf
, Paul Noone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks for that, Russ. I hadn't come across that neat chart before.
Handy reference.
But now I find myself confused by a couple of the elements listed as
optional (O); namely the HEAD and BODY tags. Optional?
Yep. Few people know this. try it out
of brevity where the meaning is still implicit. Though I would
dispute implicitness with many examples, particularly US states. ;)
Either way, although an acronym is a class of abbreviation, an abbreviation
is never a class of acronym.
HTH
--
Paul A Noone
Webmaster, ASHM
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original
At the end of the day what are we trying to achieve by using these tags?
Does semantically correct code take precedence over usability?
IMO, provided you are somehow offering a visible definition of the acronym
or abbreviation - be it by use of a specific tag, or the ill-fated title
attribute -
Makes good sense to me. Otherwise why stop at acronym? Next
thing you'd have tags for slang, idiom, abstract, outline, summary...the list
goes on. What we're trying to do is display a descriptive
meaning.
All this should be achived by way ofa
singleattribute to a tag. I still don't see why
Looks good, Paula.
Again, I think a table is fine for this type of data.
I don't understand your problem with the caption. It serves the same purpose
as your Week by Week h3 but IMO does it better.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Paula
The fact that the text-only version fails basic checkpoints is very
disappointing however. I don't know about the rest of you but I certaily let
them know my feelings via email.
Strength in numbers and all that.
There's been a lot of MM propaganda around of late with regards to
high-profile
through
browser quirks?
text-align: center justify;
--
Paul A Noone
Webmaster, ASHM
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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] Justify this
what are you applying it to? a heading or a paragraph of text?
-Original Message-
From: Paul Noone
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: 15/12/05 14:18
Subject: [WSG] Justify this
Hopefully a quick question, I hoope, as the W3C specs are no help on this
one.
I want to centre
Hi Lachlan,
Thanks for that but I was actually wanting to center align justified text
for a particular purpose. Evidently my experiment is invalid.
Thanks anyway.
--
Paul A Noone
Webmaster, ASHM
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED
, Lisa
Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2005 2:59 PM
To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org '
Subject: RE: [WSG] Justify this
Justified text really isn't a good idea in terms of usability/readability.
Maybe there was a conscious effort not to support it :)
-Original Message-
From: Paul Noone
] Justify this
no, I'm a comedian every day, it's just that I don't post every day :P
but seriously, are you adding paragraphs of justified text to the page...?
(irrespective of which element you're using to mark up).
-Original Message-
From: Paul Noone
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent
Hi Kevin,
That's just another limitation of the parameter. Justified text actually
comes in several flavours - left, right and both. I believe there are also
settings to use it vertically to fill a box but I'm not even going to begin
to paddle down that white river. ;)
--
Paul A Noone
suggestions and comments but I'm well and truly done
with this line of inquiry for now.
--
Paul A Noone
Webmaster, ASHM
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Lachlan Hunt
Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2005 4:17 PM
To: wsg
Design for 800 600 and work with the restrictions I say. Don't forget a lot of laptop and a handheld devices will need to look at your site also.
Thanks,Paul
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 00:42:27 +1100 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Browser Resolutions
the
minimum requirements for websites.
--
Paul A Noone
Webmaster, ASHM
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Stephen Stagg
Sent: Friday, 16 December 2005 12:11 AM
To: WSG
Subject: [WSG] Browser Resolutions
Slightly off-list
it for everyone. This has now gone way OT. Direct
replies only please. The list is surely bored to death with this by now.
--
Paul A Noone
Webmaster, ASHM
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Kevin Futter
Sent: Friday, 16 December
Hi,
this discussion has been had before - follow this thread:
http://www.mail-archive.com/wsg@webstandardsgroup.org/msg22706.html
:)
Paul
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Lamberson
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 11:26 AM
As one last comment I'd add that pop-ups and new window
targets are very different beasts. An accessible popup is almost but not quite
impossible, although always less desirable than a simple
target="_blank".
--Paul A NooneWebmaster, ASHM[EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL
Love the idea. I don't think it should be a replacement for many things
which are best learnt through hard expereince, but rather a 7 steps to
success guide for building a standards-based website.
Sure, you could include best practice code samples, particularly for
off-page techniques etc. But I
I think your negative margins are getting the better of you. Because both
elements directly follow each other there shouldn't be any need to do
anything othet than set H# bottom and UL/LI top margins and padding to 0.
The change below worked for me.
.mainleft ul {
margin-top: 0px;
.
Take a look at http://d81314.i50.quadrahosting.com.au for an example of the
dynamic menus I'm referring to. In this case I've actually got a third level
nested as well but you don't need to see any of them until you click
through.
--
Paul A Noone
Webmaster, ASHM
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original
I see a pattern forming. ;)
We do love our definitions on this list. FWIW I think a framework is what
we're after, which may just include links to real world solutions that are
standards based.
An awesome under-taking. I'd love to see it happen.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL
You'll probably want to archive a copy or two now for testing purposes
Why on earth would I want to do that? :)
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Dennis Lapcewich
Sent: Tuesday, 20 December 2005 10:51 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
appreciate it.
--
Paul A Noone
Webmaster, ASHM
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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: Tuesday, 20 December 2005 3:49 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Dropped DIV dilemma
Paul Noone wrote:
Problem:
http://d81314.i50.quadrahosting.com.au/index.php?module=Newsid=cntnt0
1cntn
t01action=detailcntnt01articleid=8cntnt01returnid=11
The Site Updates div gets
Got it. It was the clearfix class applied to the content div directly above
which contained no floated items.
I'm sure something else has broken now but that's for another day.
Thanks again.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Paul Noone
about CSS can be
attributed to positive feedback from this list.
--
Paul A Noone
Webmaster, ASHM
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Samuel Richardson
Sent: Tuesday, 20 December 2005 4:24 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
of font-size: 76% in the body. But
no amount of nested lists in nested tables could reduce the usual array of
inherited sizing that I recall from not so long ago.
So now I can cut yet more dead wood from my CSS. Samuel will be so proud. :)
--
Paul A Noone
Webmaster, ASHM
[EMAIL PROTECTED
size to 100%
and then setting individual elements to ems is how I do all my pages. As
far as I know it is the recommended method so users have control of their
own viewport.
Regards,
Ric
Paul Noone wrote:
So setting the font size for the html element to 100.01% and then
adjusting
Enough said. So nothing changes. Good.
It would be nice if this could be properly documented in Mr Allsopp's new
project. Bad examples are littered throughout the Web and do nothing to help
novices or the greater good.
-Original Message-
From: Felix Miata
Sent: Wednesday, 21 December
Exactly so.
I have, however, noticed that I also need to apply a 100%
font-size to - td, ul, ol, li, p, form - to stop inheritance problems though.
This seems to be erratic and something I still haven't completely worked
out.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
We have to start somewhere and building for the majority would seem to make
sense, otherwise why would we even bother how our sites looked in IE? :)
That being said, we are also all about making the Web accessible for
'everyone'. In the case of people who change their browser settings, they
have
My greatest discovery was seeing how images could be sized using % at
WebEssentials. :)
My greatest let-down was learning that it wasn't supported in IE. :(
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Terrence Wood
Sent: Thursday, 22 December 2005
Nice work Georg.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Gunlaug Sørtun
Sent: Wednesday, 21 December 2005 3:31 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Setting Up Font Sizes
Samuel Richardson wrote:
What's the best, cross-browser
There's no prize Graham but I'm gonna say, Aww...shucks anyway. :)
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Kenny Graham
Sent: Thursday, 22 December 2005 9:21 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Best Web Standards thing I learnt in
age Replacement"
href=""span/spanRevised Image
Replacement/a
Anyonefoundanother method?
For a good list of ideas Fausto, you could try this
page if you haven't already seen it:
http://www.mezzoblue.com/tests/revised-image-replacement/
Cheers,Paul
- Original Me
:
Martin
Heiden
To: Paul Collins
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 4:07
PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Images as DIV
Background with and without link (w3c friendly)
Paul,on Wednesday, January 4, 2006 at 15:48 wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
wrote: I thought the Gilder/Levin/Shea Enhancement
Hi AlvAro,
The WSG Resources section is a good place to start:
http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/
:)
Paul
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rollover
graphics!
Paul
- Original Message -
From:
Martin
Heiden
To: Paul Collins
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 4:07
PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Images as DIV
Background with and without link (w3c friendly)
Paul,on Wednesday, January 4, 2006 at 15:48 wsg
that my own suffers from inattention.) If there's
anything about an erroneous site that you LIKE, I'd point that out as
well so your comments will more likely be seen as friendly.
Regards,
Paul
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The discussion list for http
they are sub-pages of the correct tab and people like me are
likely to hit them by accident thinking they're going to a page *on your
site*
Paul
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric
SmithSent: Monday, January 09, 2006 4:36 PMTo:
wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject
are presented, I think it's much
less important to provide the email address in a form that's
machine-readable.
Regards,
Paul
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for some
=articlethe/span
span class=adjectivedamn/span
span class=nounlines/span
span class=punctuation!/span
/p
Paul
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server-side scripting to generate the block
of menu styling rules (in which case it doesn't matter if they're
names or numbers) or to auto-number the menu item ids on the fly.
Regards,
Paul
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for UTF-8 and UTF-16).
Thanks very much for the article, Lachlan.
Paul
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I have been trying to get Thierry's TJKDropdown http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/dropdown/demo.asp
menu to work, but the js has me over a barrel.
IE Win (surprise) is exploded to reveal the whole menu and I think it has to do with how the js is (or isn't) linked to my page.I realise that I don't
convey presentation -- they individuate
the various parts of the page and convey the semantic meaning of
each, but communicate nothing about how they'll be presented.
How does nav semantically define the presentation structure while
table, ol, and h1 do not?
Curiously,
Paul
taggy, but doesn't take a whole lot more markup than
a table would. Nesting the ULs will also maintain the semantic
structure of the complex list.
Paul
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You're saying that Add is a definition of Item 1
dtItem 1/dt
dda href=?add=123Add/a/dd
dda href=?edit=123Edit/a/dd
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At 05:39 PM 1/26/2006, Paul Bennett wrote:
You're saying that Add is a definition of Item 1
dtItem 1/dt
dda href=?add=123Add/a/dd
dda href=?edit=123Edit/a/dd
At 05:44 PM 1/26/2006, Joshua Street wrote:
Hmm I'd strongly contest a definition list. Maybe nested UL's
.
Paul
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://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/cascade.html#specificity
Regards,
Paul
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JavaScript is disabled.
Regards,
Paul
_
[1] A few references on this topic easily revealed by googling
display+none+screen+reader:
ScreenreaderVisibility CSS-D wiki
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=ScreenreaderVisibility
What do Screen Readers really say? by Bob
ible links to back this up?Thanks
heaps,
Paul Collins
From: Paul Novitski [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hmm. The text-toggling examples folks have posted on this topic
use {display: none} to hide text. I'm under the impression that
some screen readers will not speak text that's been hidden with
{display: none}.
At 05:04 AM 1/30/2006, Al Sparber wrote
. Monday
2. Tuesday
3. Wednesday
and so on, with there being some method of
indicating that the heading is related to the list items.
Would anyone know if this is possible or a W3C plan
in the works?
Cheers
Paul
Hi thanks allfor your replies.
Stephen, are definition lists supported by JAWS or
any other screen reader? Last time I tried to test them with JAWS it didn't seem
to pick up that it was anything different to normal text. Maybe you can tell me
otherwise.
Thanks
Paul
- Original
workwell though, just
a whim really.
Cheers mate
Paul
- Original Message -
From:
Ric Raftis
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:43
AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] list's with header
text
G'day Paul,I haven't done coding on this, however I
think
ise it may be better practice to have a go
button, but would like to know if it's possible to do without.
Cheers,
Paul
, thanks very
much.
Paul
- Original Message -
From:
Richard
Stephenson
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 1:05
PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessible drop down
menu
One option would be to use _javascript_ to submit using
"onc
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7
dumping ground for IE7 bugs
--
—pd—
use images they don't support
transparency, although you can create interestingly complex edges by
varying the border colors.
If you google css rounded corners I'm sure you'll find others.
Good luck,
Paul
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to
frustrations of expectation, or is the problem with the local link itself?
Paul
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programming or development (I do) knows that complying with
these would be difficult, and in some situations, impssible. Especially
if navigation menu's are written in _javascript_ or Flash...
Regards :: PAUL
SkyRocket Design Co
link early on the page could get you there quickly.
Please let me know if this scenario would work for you, and if not
what other menu functionality would best suit the screen-reader
environment. If this description isn't clear, let me know and I'll
prepare a live demo.
Thanks,
Paul
position in the nested
menu structure.
I recommend reading Hudson, Weakley and Miller's work on source
order and structural labels:
http://www.usability.com.au/resources/source-order.cfm
Thanks, Terrence.
Paul
**
The discussion list
giving variant definitions of the object.
Considering the W3C's examples and the semantic sense of your contact
info structure, I'd argue for a two-level nested list.
Paul
_
[footnote 1]
HTML 4.01 Specification
10.3 Definition lists: the DL, DT, and DD elements
http://www.w3.org
At 03:30 AM 2/12/2006, kvnmcwebn wrote:
in this structure from the w3c i dont think theres any hierarhcy for the
first dt?
DL
DTCenter
DTCentre
DD A point equidistant from all points
on the surface of a sphere.
DD In some field sports, the player who
Little typo just before the head there Al:
an extra [ lang=en
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Wierd...
killed half my own post with a bracket :)
The rest should read validates once it is removed.
—pd—
Paul Novitski wrote:
Tell me if this would be a better scenario: When you select a menu
item, the page reloads with a set of breadcrumbs that spells out
the history of selected menu items, such as:
Thanks very much, Ian, your response to my posting was exactly the
kind of feedback I
point you in the direction of
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/sprites An old article but the
technique is excellent.
Paul.
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I found an interesting blog entry on Yesterdayishere (Bojan Janjanin). It
discusses the use of this element.
http://yesterdayishere.com/wordpress/arhiva/2005/11/29/the-address-element/
Might prove helpful.
Best Regards,
Paul Hempsall
Web Developer
Lake Macquarie City Council
Phone: (02
s occurred in
the first place.
Here's the URLs for
both pages:
http://www.lakemac.com.au/lakemac_final/pageTransformed_broken.html(breaks
in IE FF)
http://www.lakemac.com.au/lakemac_final/pageTransformed.html(fixed)
Best Regards,
Paul Hempsall
Web Developer
Lake Macquarie City Council
Ph
Thanks for everyone's responses - a wealth of information, as usual.
Nick: I'm using plain text now for my emails, I apologise for the
inconvenience.
PaulH
This information is intended for the addressee only. The use, copying or
distribution of this message or any information it contains, by
Just a followup - in case anyone else was following this thread. I found
a really informative page that expands on the answers provided on this
list: http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2003/03/19/dive-into-xml.html
I've also discovered (after trying to figure out why the W3C Validator
kept saying my MIME
Actually Mike, according to a recent Jakob Neilsen study, Jakob Neilsen is
right 100% of the time.
;)
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Brown
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 3:28 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG]
s occurred in
the first place.
Here's the URLs for
both pages:
http://www.lakemac.com.au/lakemac_final/pageTransformed_broken.html(breaks
in IE FF)
http://www.lakemac.com.au/lakemac_final/pageTransformed.html(fixed)
Best Regards,
Paul Hempsall
Web Developer
Lake Macquarie City Council
Ph
You mean none of you can see my animated gifs?
;)
To set default messages to plain text in Outlook:
Tools Options Mail Format - Compose message in: Plain text (drop down box)
To set html messages as plain text when replying:
Format Plain Text (or Alt+o t for all us keyboard junkies)
Paul
Another Texan! Welcome Sharron. I'm here in Austin. - Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 2:06:29 PMSubject: [WSG] Introduction and first submission Pardon
a silly question, but is it standard procedure to introduce
trust the Texans to be loud!
;)
Tip - a great resource site: http://www.alvit.de/handbook/ [web developer's
handbook]
Paul
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Herrod, Lisa
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 10:38 AM
To: 'wsg
Actually to reply to to Jan first. There is (or was) a WSG group here in
Austin. At least as of
SXSW 2005. They had a big party over at Frog Design. Great group of folks. I'm
on a mailing or
invite for the monthly meeting. Have been traveling and you know according to
Murphy's law I will
always
As promised. For those in and around Austin the Austin WSG group used to be on
Meetup.com. Then
the jerks wanted to start charging. So James Craig, the moderator, moved the
list to Yahoo
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AustinWSM/ Seems they still have monthly meetup.
Maybe some folks
from this
I have been courting disaster with a potential client on these points exactly.
I am risking losing a potentially valuable contract with my
standardista (and I am pretty moderate) standpoint. Heck, I'd just
like to get their sites to validate, but they are old-skool asp guys
who learned all there
At 05:35 AM 2/27/2006, Curby wrote:
What is the recommended way for linking back to the top of the page? I
can't link to the id of my H1 because of my CSS.
Whoa. Stop right there. How can CSS stop you from linking to an h1
that's got an id?
Paul
, opera on PC (winXP).
Wouldn't activating the link in a screen-reader simply move the
cursor (reading point) from the link to the beginning of the page?
Curiously,
Paul
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On 3/2/06, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
... due to Dead Edwards' IE7 script not working
Man, when did Dean Edwards die? I know his last post was in December, but I
didn't know he was *dead*
Maybe MS will make IE7 standards compliant in his honour... ;)
Paul
: Arial, Avant Garde, ...Times Roman, and most other
proportional fonts on my system.
What fonts have you checked?
Paul
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Cascading Style Sheets, level 2 revision 1
CSS 2.1 Specification
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/
Regards,
Paul
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all I need to do is follow my own advice...)
Regards,
Paul
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by a
desire to throw a bucket of water on someone's haughtiness than it
was to start another holy war.
Regards,
Paul
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of all probable worlds.
Paul
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common mistake, often referred to as div-mania (or something along
It's famous!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divitis
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comments?
Paul
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