Re: [WSG] I'm on a question roll.... background images on links
Floating the link left as well as display:block should make the image sit at the end of the text, as opposed to spaning the width of the page. This can cause problems in a few older browsers such as Netscape 6, as once you float something left it is no longer a block element. Hope that makes sense. - Original Message - From: Drake, Ted C. To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org' Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 5:32 PM Subject: [WSG] I'm on a question roll background images on links We are using a background image on links to signify they are external. Theimage sits on the right side of the link using background: url() 100% 0;All is fine in firefox, but in IE the icon overlaps or sits at the top whenthe text wraps to a second line. Is there a way to make the backgroundimage follow the text inside a link rather than looking at the link as ablock?I've tried display: inline-block and that made the spacing better, butdidn't fix the issue.Here's an exampleGood link: | Google Virtual || World (icon) |Bad link:| Google Virtua(icon) | The icon sits at the top and doesn't | World | flow with the textHas anyone found a way to fix this? I don't want to go back to inline imagesand our standard is to have the icon on the right and not the left.Otherwise, I would have placed it on the left and it would have been acake-walk.P.S. sorry about an earlier html formatted email, I try to send them inplain text.ThanksTed Drakewww.tdrake.net **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help**
[WSG] Dublin Core metadata
Hi all,I have recently been reading about Dublin Core meta data. I would liketo know what the main advantages are of using it and how widely it isinterpreted by search engines. I am having a hard time finding out theright information, could anyone point me in the correct direction ormaybe give some knowledge?Thanks, Paul Collins
[WSG] Character encoding mismatch
I am getting the followingwarningwhen I validate my pages: -- Character Encoding mismatch! The character encoding specified in the HTTP header (iso-8859-1) is different from the value in the meta element (utf-8). I will use the value from the HTTP header (iso-8859-1) for this validation. -- My header code looks like this, which should validate fine: !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en" lang="en"headtitletitle/titlemeta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8;"/ I have just started reading more about character encoding and special characters, is my problem that I have used decimal character refereces? For example - as #45; ' as #39; and so on. I thought this was the correct way to add special characters for XHTML, but what I am reading now seems to contradict this. This is the part of standards where I get a bit confused. Does anyone have any advice or know of some good articles where they explain this in simple terms?? Cheers
Re: [WSG] Character encoding mismatch
That seems to work, thanks heaps Rimantas - Original Message - From: Rimantas Liubertas To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 12:01 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Character encoding mismatch 2005/11/10, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I am getting the following warning when I validate my pages: -- Character Encoding mismatch! The character encoding specified in the HTTP header (iso-8859-1) is different from the value in the meta element (utf-8). I will use the value from the HTTP header (iso-8859-1) for this validation and so on. I thought this was the correct way to add special characters for XHTML, but what I am reading now seems to contradict this. This is the part of standards where I get a bit confused. Does anyone have any advice or know of some good articles where they explain this in simple terms??The problem is not with your XHTML but with your server. Most likelyyou are running Apache with AddDefaultCharset in configuration. If youhave access to httpd.conf youshould just comment out this directive, or change it to utf-8.Regards,Rimantas**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help**
Re: [WSG] Character encoding mismatch
Thanks Susanne, that's a really good reference. Cheers,Paul - Original Message - From: Susanne Jäger To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Character encoding mismatch Paul Collins wrote, On 10.11.2005 12:44: I thought this was the correct way to add special characters for XHTML, but what I am reading now seems to contradict this. This is the part of standards where I get a bit confused. Does anyone have any advice or know of some good articles where they explain this in simple terms??Have a look at the material in W3Cs internationalization-SectionW3C I18N Topic Indexhttp://www.w3.org/International/resource-index.html#charsetI like the Tutorial: Character sets encodings in XHTML, HTML and CSShttp://www.w3.org/International/tutorials/tutorial-char-enc/#choosingAt least they try to explain the rather complicated stuff for everyone. ;-)HTHSusanne-- http://sujag.de - Webentwicklung und -beratung[EMAIL PROTECTED]Lottumstr. 22, 10119 Berlin, Tel: 030 - 440 483 47**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help**
Re: [WSG] Character encoding mismatch
Hi Richard, Thanks for that info, the guy who runs the server here has fixed the server to run UTF-8, so no problems there. The XHTML reference was really good. I had started using the apos; XHTML tag for #39; not realising that it wouldn't work for browsers that don't read XHTML (such as IE5). Glad I got to read that one before we went live! I have now changed it to rsquo; What's your opinion on using Character Entities over Hexadecimal values. I can't seem to get a clear response on which is better. Thanks again. Paul - Original Message - From: Richard Ishida To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 6:54 PM Subject: RE: [WSG] Character encoding mismatch Thanks, Susan, for pointing to that stuff.Paul, you if you're using Apache you may also find this particularly useful:"Setting 'charset' information in .htaccess"http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-htaccess-charsetThat would allow you to continue using utf-8, which I think is a good move.Also, you may find the following useful wrt using character references:"Using character entities and NCRs"http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-escapesHope that helps,RIRichard IshidaInternationalization LeadW3Chttp://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/http://www.w3.org/International/http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/http://www.flickr.com/photos/ishida/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susanne Jäger Sent: 10 November 2005 12:21 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Character encoding mismatch Paul Collins wrote, On 10.11.2005 12:44: I thought this was the correct way to add special characters for XHTML, but what I am reading now seems to contradict this. This is the part of standards where I get a bit confused. Does anyone have any advice or know of some good articles where they explain this in simple terms?? Have a look at the material in W3Cs internationalization-Section W3C I18N Topic Index http://www.w3.org/International/resource-index.html#charset I like the Tutorial: Character sets encodings in XHTML, HTML and CSS http://www.w3.org/International/tutorials/tutorial-char-enc/#choosing At least they try to explain the rather complicated stuff for everyone. ;-) HTH Susanne -- http://sujag.de - Webentwicklung und -beratung [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lottumstr. 22, 10119 Berlin, Tel: 030 - 440 483 47 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help**
Re: [WSG] Images as DIV Background with and without link (w3c friendly)
Hi Fausto, A good way of doing it, but It doesn't work with Images off and CSS still turned on, which becomes an Accessibility issue. Has anyone ever resolved a way ofdoing this for graphic links containing a rollover state? The problem is, IE doesn't let you add a hover state to anything other than the a tag. So thecommon methods of image replacement don't seem to work in those instances: I thought the Gilder/Levin/Shea Enhancement Method was best, but you can't have a hover state on a graphic link using this. Example HTMLwould be: a id="header" title="Revised Image Replacement" href=""span/spanRevised Image Replacement/a Anyonefoundanother method? For a good list of ideas Fausto, you could try this page if you haven't already seen it: http://www.mezzoblue.com/tests/revised-image-replacement/ Cheers,Paul - Original Message - From: Fausto Balloni To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 2:16 PM Subject: [WSG] Images as DIV Background with and without link (w3c friendly) Hi All,We came with a W3C friendly solution to insert images with or without link in the layout, being able to control it via CSS only, without writing the IMG tag on the HTML code). It also helps Google and other search engines to find the name, "title" or "alt" of the image.Image Without Link:http://www.sugarman.ca/temp/w3c/imagem_sem_link.htmImage With Link:http://www.sugarman.ca/temp/w3c/imagem_com_link.htmWe would like to have your opinion about it and sugestions are welcome![]'sFausto Balloni FilhoClient-Side - Globo.com**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help**
Re: [WSG] Images as DIV Background with and without link (w3c friendly)
Hi Martin, thanks for your reply...
You can't use the :hover pseudo class on any
element other than an anchor in IE unfortunately. I don't have time to look too
far, but with a brief search I found this link that mentions it:
http://4umi.com/web/css/hover.htm
They say it will be fixed in the IE7 blog, but I'm
still developing back to version 5!
http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/07/29/445242.aspx
I've seen a _javascript_ solution, but again that
would cause Accessibility issues. Would love to hear if anyone has a solution to
this??!
- Original Message -
From:
Martin
Heiden
To: Paul Collins
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 4:07
PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Images as DIV
Background with and without link (w3c friendly)
Paul,on Wednesday, January 4, 2006 at 15:48 wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
wrote: I thought the Gilder/Levin/Shea Enhancement Method was
best, but you can't have a hover state on a graphic link using
this. Example HTML would be: a id="header"
title="Revised Image Replacement"
href=""span/spanRevised Image
Replacement/aWhy?a#header:hover span {
background: url(another url) no-repeat (or shift);}should
work.regards
Martin**The
discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See
http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor
some hints on posting to the list getting
help**
Re: [WSG] Images as DIV Background with and without link (w3c friendly)
Martin,
That works on every site I need to test on, can't
believe the solution is that easy!!
Tested on PC:
IE6, IE5.5, IE5.0, Opera 7, Netscape
6.
Tested on Mac:
IE5.2, Safari, Firefox
Can't thank you enough for that solution, really
appreciate it.
Now I have to go and overhaul all my rollover
graphics!
Paul
- Original Message -
From:
Martin
Heiden
To: Paul Collins
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 4:07
PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Images as DIV
Background with and without link (w3c friendly)
Paul,on Wednesday, January 4, 2006 at 15:48 wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
wrote: I thought the Gilder/Levin/Shea Enhancement Method was
best, but you can't have a hover state on a graphic link using
this. Example HTML would be: a id="header"
title="Revised Image Replacement"
href=""span/spanRevised Image
Replacement/aWhy?a#header:hover span {
background: url(another url) no-repeat (or shift);}should
work.regards
Martin**The
discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See
http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor
some hints on posting to the list getting
help**
[WSG] Check boxes ticked (UK Law)
Hello all I recall reading somewhere a while back that UK law states you can't have a check box ticked on a form EG- "untick this box if you don't want to receive emails" would beillegal for a UK site. Could anyone tell me if I'm right or wrong and if possible give me some credible links to back this up?Thanks heaps, Paul Collins
[WSG] list's with header text
Hello all. Just wondering if there is such a thing as a header tag for a HTML list, ul or ol, such as the TH tag or the Summary tag for a table? Would be a handy feature, but I haven't seen anything like this out there yet? So you could have: The following are the days of the week 1. Monday 2. Tuesday 3. Wednesday and so on, with there being some method of indicating that the heading is related to the list items. Would anyone know if this is possible or a W3C plan in the works? Cheers Paul
Re: [WSG] list's with header text
Hi thanks allfor your replies. Stephen, are definition lists supported by JAWS or any other screen reader? Last time I tried to test them with JAWS it didn't seem to pick up that it was anything different to normal text. Maybe you can tell me otherwise. Thanks Paul - Original Message - From: Stephen Stagg To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] list's with header text Sarcasm Alert :)!--[if ! Moral High-Horse Police]or... you could use a definition list:dldtDays of the Week/dtdddldtDay 0/dtddSunday/dddtDay 1/dtddMonday/dd./dl/ddThat way, everyone will know what you mean. ![endif]--Stephen.On 31 Jan 2006, at 11:09, Martin Heiden wrote: Paul, on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 at 11:39 wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: What's wrong with this? hxThe following are the days of the week/hx ol liMonday/li liTuesday/li liWednesday/li /ol regards Martin ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help**
Re: [WSG] list's with header text
Thanks Ric, you're definitely right and this would work. It would be nice however if there was an equivalent to the Summary or Legend attribute where a screen reader would read outthat there is an unorderedlist with say,10 items and then read the summary at the top. What yousay would workwell though, just a whim really. Cheers mate Paul - Original Message - From: Ric Raftis To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:43 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] list's with header text G'day Paul,I haven't done coding on this, however I think it may be possible by setting a class for your bold heading with no bottom padding or margin and then using an ordered list.Regards,RicPaul Collins wrote:Paul Collins wrote: Hello all. Just wondering if there is such a thing as a header tag for a HTML list, ul or ol, such as the TH tag or the Summary tag for a table? Would be a handy feature, but I haven't seen anything like this out there yet? So you could have: *The following are the days of the week* 1. Monday 2. Tuesday 3. Wednesday and so on, with there being some method of indicating that the heading is related to the list items. Would anyone know if this is possible or a W3C plan in the works? Cheers Paul**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help**
[WSG] Accessible drop down menu
Hello all, Got another question today which I can't seem to find any new information on. Was wondering with Ajax and some of these new methods coming out, is there a way of creating an accessible drop-down menu that doesn't use scripting? As in, can we have a drop-down menu that wouldsubmit to the serverwhen you click on a selection, instead of requiring a submit button? One option would be to use _javascript_ to submit using "onchange", then hiding the submit button in a nosript tag for those who don't have jscript turned on. Does anyone havea better idea? I realise it may be better practice to have a go button, but would like to know if it's possible to do without. Cheers, Paul
Re: [WSG] Accessible drop down menu
Hi Richard, Thanks for that one, that will definitely come in handy in the future and I've got it bookmarked. Unfortunately though, in this instance the design won't permit me to have a list of links as it would be far too long to fit, so a select box is preferable. Really useful though, thanks very much. Paul - Original Message - From: Richard Stephenson To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessible drop down menu One option would be to use _javascript_ to submit using "onchange", then hiding the submit button in a nosript tag for those who don't have jscript turned on. Does anyone have a better idea?Hi Paul,Don't know if its exactly what you are after but i did a little scripta while ago that turns a list of links into a select box that acts asa jumpmenu that loads a new url onchange. If the user has no js theyjust get the list of links.http://www.donkeymagic.co.uk/listselectRichard--DonkeyMagic: Website design developmenthttp://www.donkeymagic.co.uk**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help**
[WSG] Testing multiple Flash Player versions...
Hi all Just wondering if anyone has a clever way of testing multiple Flash players on a single machine? Preferably without having to uninstall. If not, does anyone know of a good place to download earlier versions? Cheers, Paul
[WSG] css type loop
Hi all,
I recently had to add numerical bullet point graphics to an OL. This
meant I had to add an individual class and style to each bullet point
for each image, which can add up when you've got 20 bullets. I was
wondering, does anyone know more clever way of doing this in some kind
of a CSS loop, without using Jscript?!
Example:
CSS
li.bullet1 {background:url(images/bullet1.gif} no-repeat;}
li.bullet2 {background:url(images/bullet2.gif} no-repeat;}
HTML
li class=bullet1lorem ipsum/li
li class=bullet2lorem ipsum/li
Cheers
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[WSG] Hack for all IE versions including 7
Hi all, I am trying to find hacks for IE7 and I can't, could someone please point me in the right direction? I would like the following: - a hack to target IE7 only - a hack to target all versions of IE, including IE7 Anyone got any ideas? I don't want to create conditional comments as this is one hack needed for an entire site, not worth creating a new style sheet for it. Cheers *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Hack for all IE versions including 7
Nice one, thanks for your help. I knew there was an answer!
The only problem is validation I guess, anyone know of a hack that validates?
Cheers
On 18/05/07, Stephen Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I find this invaluable,
http://www.webdevout.net/css-hacks
On 18/05/07, Matthew Pennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 5/18/07, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am trying to find hacks for IE7 and I can't, could someone please
point me in the right direction? I would like the following:
#mydiv {
background: red; /* all browsers */
*background: green; /* all IE */
_background: blue; /* IE6 and below */
}
Or use conditional comments, obviously.
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---
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Re: [WSG] Hack for all IE versions including 7
Stuart,
How can it be called invalid coding if it does validate? I find using
conditional comments gives an excuse to be lazy and just write a whole
new bunch of styles for IE that could have been fixed in the original
stylesheet with a bit of playing around. When working on sites built
by other people, it is always a pain to have to search through 10
stylesheets to fix a problem in IE5, you end up getting hacks for
hacks cause there are too many stylesheets. Hence I would rather not
use them and just add a select number of hacks to my main stylesheet
when it is a known bug. When I stop supporting IE6 and below, I can do
a simple search and replace for the * html hack.
The debate could go on for days really, all I'm after is a way of
targeting IE7 that does validate, not opinions on whether I'm
pretending to create valid code or not!
On 18/05/07, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
If you want to do hacks then you shouldn't pretend to do valid coding.
Stuart
On Fri, May 18, 2007 2:05 pm, Paul Collins wrote:
Nice one, thanks for your help. I knew there was an answer!
The only problem is validation I guess, anyone know of a hack that
validates?
Cheers
On 18/05/07, Stephen Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I find this invaluable,
http://www.webdevout.net/css-hacks
On 18/05/07, Matthew Pennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 5/18/07, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am trying to find hacks for IE7 and I can't, could someone please
point me in the right direction? I would like the following:
#mydiv {
background: red; /* all browsers */
*background: green; /* all IE */
_background: blue; /* IE6 and below */
}
Or use conditional comments, obviously.
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BigEasy Web Design
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Tel. 07751 413451
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Re: [WSG] css type loop
Thanks for all your comments, CSS3 sounds loads better, but it will probably be many years until we can get decent browser support! I decided to put it in as an image, because I can't hide the text of an ordered list (list-style:none;) without it causing problems with Screen readers anyway. Hence if I used a background image to replace it, I defeat it's intended purpose. So, with that done, I can also use server side code to implement the image names. A bit easier all round, but the HTML doesn't look as clean as I would like. Thanks for your help everyone. Paul On 18/05/07, Mordechai Peller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lucien Stals wrote: Why aren't you just dealing with this server side and generating the desired classes and tags there? I see two reasons. First, by generating the CSS dynamically, browsers are unable to cache it, thereby loosing one of the benefits of external style sheets. Second, by adding all those extra classes (or ids), the HTML becomes bloated and looses semantic value. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- --- Paul Collins Ph: +44 (0) 793 9038 249 (UK) [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Hack for all IE versions including 7
Thanks Theiry, I haven't seen the voice family one for quite some time :)
It is all down to personal preference of course. I have found it
easier to have the hack directly after the style I am trying to hack
for in the code; that way I don't have to search anywhere for it to
figure out what's going on and it would make it easier for others to
figure out.
IMO: If you take your time you shouldn't need too many hacks anyway,
maybe a box model or two and a peekaboo bug here and there, which
should really only require a \ or a * html, not too complex. But
again, that is just down to my experience.
Cheers,
Paul
On 18/05/07, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Behalf Of Paul Collins
conditional comments gives an excuse to be lazy and just write a whole
new bunch of styles for IE that could have been fixed in the original
stylesheet with a bit of playing around. When working on sites built
Do you mean that kind of playing around?
div.content {
width:400px;
voice-family: \}\;
voice-family:inherit;
width:300px;
}
htmlbody .content {
width:300px;
}
FWIW, I prefer to contain fixes in separate styles sheets rather than
forking back and forth in the same file (and that can be done without using
conditional comments).
---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
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[WSG] Image in a label in IE
Hi all, Just encountered a problem where IE won't do anything if you add an image inside your label, that is you can't click on the label to activate the radio, checkbox etc. I found this idea, which sounded good, but the Javascript conflicts with another onclick event. Just wondering if anyone had found a CSS solution since 2005 when this one was written?! http://snook.ca/archives/javascript/using_images_as/#c There is also this, but it doesn't seem to work in IE 5.0 for me. http://riddle.pl/-/xhtml/css-img-in-label/fixed.html Any ideas?! Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Image in a label in IE
Interesting, I will have to see how I can apply this to an image in a label, will come in handy definitely at some stage either way. Thanks for your help Sam. On 22/05/07, Samuel Tan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.chriserwin.com/scripts/crir/ This is a script that does that. It's a good reference i guess. Sam Paul Collins wrote: Hi all, Just encountered a problem where IE won't do anything if you add an image inside your label, that is you can't click on the label to activate the radio, checkbox etc. I found this idea, which sounded good, but the Javascript conflicts with another onclick event. Just wondering if anyone had found a CSS solution since 2005 when this one was written?! http://snook.ca/archives/javascript/using_images_as/#c There is also this, but it doesn't seem to work in IE 5.0 for me. http://riddle.pl/-/xhtml/css-img-in-label/fixed.html Any ideas?! Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] semantic HTML for intro text
Hi all, Just marking up a page, the layout seems to require various tags, as far as I can gather, I need seperate tags for: - The intro heading (a H2) - The orange intro text (not sure what tag to add here) - a smaller, bold heading, same size as body text (probably a h3) - a quote (probably a blockquote tag) My question is, what would be the best semantic tags to use here, that will be picked up by assistive technology and validate for XHTML 1.0 Transitional. In particular, I want to know about the Orange intro text and the quote. Any suggestions would be great, I have posted a JPEG here: http://www.method.com.au/storage/sampleText.gif Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] semantic HTML for intro text
OK, thanks for your help, I just thought there may be some kind of HTML tag that adds seperate semantic value to the introductory paragraph, to differentiate it from the strong text in the body, like the big tag for example. I will probably use the strong tag then. Cheers Paul On 25/05/07, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, If the choice of the colour orange is to add emphasis to this text, the answer to this part is really a no brainer - code it with emphasis (the actual colour/styling is down to the CSS). I would use strong markup for this. On Fri, May 25, 2007 7:56 pm, Nick Fitzsimons wrote: On 25 May 2007, at 18:03:06, Paul Collins wrote: Hi all, Just marking up a page, the layout seems to require various tags, as far as I can gather, I need seperate tags for: - The intro heading (a H2) - The orange intro text (not sure what tag to add here) - a smaller, bold heading, same size as body text (probably a h3) - a quote (probably a blockquote tag) My question is, what would be the best semantic tags to use here, that will be picked up by assistive technology and validate for XHTML 1.0 Transitional. In particular, I want to know about the Orange intro text and the quote. Any suggestions would be great, I have posted a JPEG here: http://www.method.com.au/storage/sampleText.gif Assuming the page on which this will appear already has an h1: h2.../h2 p class=introduction.../p h3...h3 p.../p blockquotep.../p/blockquote p.../p and then apply things like the different font sizes weights, colours and spacing with CSS. If there will only ever be one introductory paragraph per page, then you could use p id=introduction instead. HTH, Nick, -- Nick Fitzsimons http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Stuart Foulstone. http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk BigEasy Web Design 69 Flockton Court Rockingham Street Sheffield S1 4EB Tel. 07751 413451 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] semantic HTML for intro text
Sorry, I've been away for a while and lost track of this, thanks to everyone for your comments. I think what you have said is right in that perhaps the intro text doesn't really have any semantic value, so there doesn't need to be any tag to match it. Thanks again for all your replies. On 26/05/07, Paul Novitski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 5/26/2007 10:04 AM, Designer wrote: Presumably, p title=introduction and p id=introduction would do the trick also? My own preference would be for the latter. Of course, if you are referring to a GROUP of paragraphs constituting the introduction, then Paul's class would have to be used. Yes, either an introduction consisting of multiple paragraphs or multiple introductions on the same page. Since we don't really know the present and future architecture of the site in question, either of those possibilities seems so likely to occur, particularly the former, that painting oneself into a corner with id seems to beg for the busywork of modifying markup stylesheet down the road. Regards, Paul __ Paul Novitski Juniper Webcraft Ltd. http://juniperwebcraft.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] 1 pixel gap
Hi all, Just got a 1 pixel gap at the left of my image here that is baffling me. It is happening in Firefox and Safari on Mac - the only browsers I have tested in so far. you can see there is space below the image to the right where it sticks out a bit too. http://method.com.au/test.html I have changed the doctype to HTML 4.0, I have made the image inline, position:relative, but nothing I can do seems to work. Any ideas? The 1 pixel gap does go away when the scrollbar apears on the browser window, so when there is enough content to go below the fold. Thanks Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] 1 pixel gap
Thanks Alex, I feel a bit daft for not noticing that myself :) It seems though, that even though this has fixed that, the problem is now occuring the other way; So when there is NO content, it displays fine and when there IS content going below the fold, it shows the 1px gap on the right now. It seems to be to do with the center alignment I think, but I can't figure out why. Any ideas? Thanks for your help On 19/06/07, Alex James [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just got a 1 pixel gap at the left of my image here that is baffling me. http://method.com.au/test.html Try reducing 'bgMain.gif' to 709px Thanks, Al *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] 1 pixel gap
Sorry, there seems to be some inconsistencies now, the version on my localhost is showing the problem I just sent, yet when I put it live it doesn't occur. Both versions are using the same CSS and HTML... Anyone seen a problem like that before? It's just static HTML, so I'm guessing it wouldn't be a server thing? Cheers On 19/06/07, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Alex, I feel a bit daft for not noticing that myself :) It seems though, that even though this has fixed that, the problem is now occuring the other way; So when there is NO content, it displays fine and when there IS content going below the fold, it shows the 1px gap on the right now. It seems to be to do with the center alignment I think, but I can't figure out why. Any ideas? Thanks for your help On 19/06/07, Alex James [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just got a 1 pixel gap at the left of my image here that is baffling me. http://method.com.au/test.html Try reducing 'bgMain.gif' to 709px Thanks, Al *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] 1 pixel gap
Umm, Forget my last post, I hadn't uploaded the image. Doh! It appears the problem is that the background image width isn't an even number, causing the alignment to change when the scrolling occurs, as it can't find exactly 50%, so it adds an extra pixel Thanks for your help. Paul On 19/06/07, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, there seems to be some inconsistencies now, the version on my localhost is showing the problem I just sent, yet when I put it live it doesn't occur. Both versions are using the same CSS and HTML... Anyone seen a problem like that before? It's just static HTML, so I'm guessing it wouldn't be a server thing? Cheers On 19/06/07, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Alex, I feel a bit daft for not noticing that myself :) It seems though, that even though this has fixed that, the problem is now occuring the other way; So when there is NO content, it displays fine and when there IS content going below the fold, it shows the 1px gap on the right now. It seems to be to do with the center alignment I think, but I can't figure out why. Any ideas? Thanks for your help On 19/06/07, Alex James [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just got a 1 pixel gap at the left of my image here that is baffling me. http://method.com.au/test.html Try reducing 'bgMain.gif' to 709px Thanks, Al *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Safari 2.0?!
Hello all, I downloaded the beta for Safari 3 the other day, it looks nice. Unfortunately, someone has pointed out a problem with a site I'm building and they are using version 2.0. I can't replicate the problem in the new version!! So after searching Evolt and a few other places, I can't find the original version now! They only have version 1 on offer. Does anyone know how I can get back to version 2 - the current version?! PS - on OS X, of course. Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Safari 2.0?!
great, done. I usually throw those things away :) Cheers for that. On 19/06/07, Nick Fitzsimons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 19 Jun 2007, at 20:39:44, Paul Collins wrote: I downloaded the beta for Safari 3 the other day, it looks nice. Unfortunately, someone has pointed out a problem with a site I'm building and they are using version 2.0. I can't replicate the problem in the new version!! So after searching Evolt and a few other places, I can't find the original version now! They only have version 1 on offer. Does anyone know how I can get back to version 2 - the current version?! PS - on OS X, of course. The beta download comes with an uninstall package to roll you back to your previous version of Safari. It's on the Safari3Beta.dmg you originally installed from. Regards, Nick. -- Nick Fitzsimons http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Javascript problem
Hi all,
I hope this is on topic, please ignore it if not, I have a small
Jscript problem that shouldn't be hard to sort out, but I am not great
with these things...
I have a script that adds colours to a all the columns in a table. It
works fine, the only problem is, it is trying to apply the code to all
pages, when the table is only on a couple. So when I am viewing all
other pages, it comes up with this error:
document.getElementById(tableID) has no properties
So, what I would like to do, is add a checker to the script to see if
the table actually exists before doing the rest of the code.
Unfortunately, I am a novice to this and I've been stuffing around for
a while and can't get it to work.
Here is the teh script, it is worth mentioning that this is the only
table on the site, so that may help with the re-working of the code,
although it would be nice to have a checker that looks for the
specific table id.
Thanks in advance:
// script to add alternating table background colours
var colors=[#E5D9DB,#C5D3D8,#DBCBBE,#E9DBC7,#D4E0E0,#C5CEC7];
function alternateRows(tableID,numberOfColors,colorArray){
var
trs=document.getElementById(tableID).getElementsByTagName(TD);
len=trs.length;
var myColors=colorArray.slice(0,numberOfColors);
while(len--){
trs[len].style.backgroundColor=colors[len%myColors.length];
}
}
// add onload event
addLoadEvent(function() {
alternateRows(caseStudiesTable,6,colors);
}
);
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Re: [WSG] Javascript problem
Thanks for your replies everyone, much appreciated. All working well now.
Cheers
Paul
On 21/06/07, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Behalf Of Paul Collins
I have a script that adds colours to a all the columns in a table. It
works fine, the only problem is, it is trying to apply the code to all
pages, when the table is only on a couple. So when I am viewing all
other pages, it comes up with this error:
document.getElementById(tableID) has no properties
So, what I would like to do, is add a checker to the script to see if
the table actually exists before doing the rest of the code.
Unfortunately, I am a novice to this and I've been stuffing around for
a while and can't get it to work.
Here is the teh script, it is worth mentioning that this is the only
table on the site, so that may help with the re-working of the code,
although it would be nice to have a checker that looks for the
specific table id.
Thanks in advance:
// script to add alternating table background colours
var
colors=[#E5D9DB,#C5D3D8,#DBCBBE,#E9DBC7,#D4E0E0,#C5CEC7];
function alternateRows(tableID,numberOfColors,colorArray){
var
trs=document.getElementById(tableID).getElementsByTagName(TD);
len=trs.length;
var myColors=colorArray.slice(0,numberOfColors);
while(len--){
trs[len].style.backgroundColor=colors[len%myColors.length];
}
}
// add onload event
addLoadEvent(function() {
alternateRows(caseStudiesTable,6,colors);
}
);
Try this:
addLoadEvent(function() {
if(document.getElementById(caseStudiesTable))
alternateRows(caseStudiesTable,6,colors);
}
---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
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[WSG] Font-size 62.5% problem
Hi all,
I seem to be having trouble assigning the font-size:62.5%; property to
the body of my document. Basically, it doesn't seem to be working and
I can't figure out why. The font stays slightly larger than 11px, when
I set it to 1.1em. this has worked fine on other sites, so not sure
why it isn't working here. Any ideas?
Here is the CSS:
/* BODY STYLES */
body {margin:0; padding:0; color:#FFF; font-size:62.5%; background:#EAE7E7;}
* {font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;}
#leftPanel {width:204px; float:left; font-size:1.1em;}
/* CONTENT */
#content {width:543px; w\idth:503px; font-size:1.2em; float:left;
text-align:left; padding:0 23px 30px 17px;}
Here is the HTML
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd;
html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml;
head
meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=UTF-8 /
titleBSix/title
link href=/css/main.css rel=stylesheet type=text/css
media=screen, print /
script type=text/javascript src=/includes/scripts.js/script
/head
body id=home
div id=wrapper
!--TOP NAVIGATION--
div id=topNavigation
img id=logoBSix src=/images/logoBSix.gif
width=142
height=72 title=Logo: BSix - Brooke House Sixth Form College
alt=Logo: BSix - Brooke House Sixth Form College/
emimg id=mainQuote
src=/images/quoteHighStandarsForAll.gif
width=247 height=26 title=Quote: High Standards for all
alt=Quote: High Standards for all//em
ul
li
class=homestrongem/emHome/strong/li
li class=collegea
href=college.phpem/emCollege/a/li
li class=coursesa
href=courses.phpem/emCourses/a/li
li class=studentsa
href=students.phpem/emStudents/a/li
li class=parentsa
href=parents.phpem/emParents/a/li
li class=applya
href=apply.phpem/emApply/a/li
li class=staffa
href=staff.phpem/emStaff/a/li
/ul
/div
!--LEFT NAVIGATION--
div id=leftPanel
!--LINKS--
!--Find the course for you--
ul
li class=first
a href=/img
src=/images/leftPanel/leftLinkFindTheCourse.gif alt=Find the course
for you //a
p
Search our brilliant portfolio
of academic and
vocational courses to find the
one that suits
your needs and ambitions.
/p
form action=post method=get name=selectCourse
id=selectCourseForm
select name=courses
optionSelect one of our
courses/option
optioncourse
one/option
optioncourse
two/option
/select
/form
/li
li
a href=/img
src=/images/leftPanel/leftLinkTakeATour.gif
alt=Take a tour of BSix //a
p
You'll be impressed by the
facilities we offer at
BSix – see for yourselfhellip;
a class=arrowLink href=/Virtual
Tour/a
/p
/li
!--Get Prospectus--
li
a href=/img
src=/images/leftPanel/leftLinkGetProspectus.gif alt=Get Prospectus
//a
p
a class=arrowLink
href=/Download PDF/a
a class=arrowLink href=/Email
us a request/a
/p
p
Call us strongFREE/strong
onbr/
0800 3892 947
/p
/li
!--Student Room--
li
a href=/img
src=/images/leftPanel/leftLinkStudentRoom.gif
alt=Student Room //a
p
Re: [WSG] Font-size 62.5% problem
Thanks for your replies everyone. My target would be Firefox, Safari, IE, Opera. This seems to have worked in the past on those browsers. It has worked fine for me in the past. Kepler, I tried adding it inline to the body tag, still can't get it to work. Tony, I tried getting rid of the minimum font-size in firefox and still no result! Can't for the life of me figure this out! Cheers On 02/07/07, Nick Gleitzman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2 Jul 2007, at 3:10 PM, Felix Miata wrote: Paul Collins apparently typed: I seem to be having trouble assigning the font-size:62.5% Please note that... Toldja. N ___ omnivision. websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Select that goes to a new URL
Hi all, This should be pretty basic stuff, but coding the forms can be a bit above me sometimes :) I've hunted around and can't seem to find the answer, so here goes... I've got a select box, with a bunch of options that need to go to another page in the website when the go button is clicked. I'm running this on my localhost, so not sure if the CGI scripts are all there, I am running PHP though, so it would be ideal to set it up that way. Here is my code, would appreciate any links/advice. Cheers form action=post action=http://localhost/includes/redirect.php; name=selectCourse id=selectCourseForm fieldset select name=New_URL optionSelect a course/option option value=http://localhost/courses/artsAndMedia.php;Arts amp; Media/option option value=http://localhost/courses/businessAndPublicServices.php;Business amp; Public Services/option option value=http://localhost/courses/careTravelAndTourism.php;Care Travel amp; Tourism/option optionESOL amp; Languages/option optionHair, Beauty amp; Sport/option optionHumanities amp; English/option optionICT amp; Maths/option optionPerforming Arts amp; Media/option optionSkills for life/option optionScience/option /select input name=submit type=submit id=goButton_replace value=Go/ /fieldset /form I've tried it with this redirect PHP script, but doesn't seem to work: ?php header(Location: . $_POST['id']); ? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Select that goes to a new URL
Thanks for your help guys, makes more sense. It still isn't working though, so I'll go find another forum to post to about PHP. Cheers Paul On 10/07/07, Ross Bruniges [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you should use $_POST['New_URL'] - thats going to be the value of the select box. Looking at your code there is nothing called ID on there! and also - PHP is really off topic of this list, not sure of any PHP mailers but the sitepoint forums always get me out of bother! - Original Message From: Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, 10 July, 2007 3:57:58 PM Subject: [WSG] Select that goes to a new URL Hi all, This should be pretty basic stuff, but coding the forms can be a bit above me sometimes :) I've hunted around and can't seem to find the answer, so here goes... I've got a select box, with a bunch of options that need to go to another page in the website when the go button is clicked. I'm running this on my localhost, so not sure if the CGI scripts are all there, I am running PHP though, so it would be ideal to set it up that way. Here is my code, would appreciate any links/advice. Cheers form action=post action=http://localhost/includes/redirect.php;; name=selectCourse id=selectCourseForm fieldset select name=New_URL optionSelect a course/option option value=http://localhost/courses/artsAndMedia.php;Arts Media/option option value=http://localhost/courses/businessAndPublicServices.php;Business Public Services/option option value=http://localhost/courses/careTravelAndTourism.php;Care Travel Tourism/option optionESOL Languages/option optionHair, Beauty Sport/option optionHumanities English/option optionICT Maths/option optionPerforming Arts Media/option optionSkills for life/option optionScience/option /select input name=submit type=submit id=goButton_replace value=Go/ /fieldset /form I've tried it with this redirect PHP script, but doesn't seem to work: ?php header(Location: . $_POST['id']); ? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ___ What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits
Funny you should send that one Kevin, I am literally just scoping around for a similar solution to the site I have just built. I was recommended these two aparrently free CMS solutions by another client. http://www.dotnetnuke.com/ http://www.cmsmadesimple.org/ I am only just taking a look now so not sure how standards compliant they are. The last site I built used a combination of Contribute and Wordpress, not so pretty and kind of limiting. Depends on what they want to update and the type of content I guess. I would like to hear of any other free open source CMS solutions there are out there? preferably one using PHP, but open to suggestions. Cheers Paul On 10/07/07, Kevin Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I find it very disappointing that very few clients really appreciate the amount of hard work that goes into designing and building a site (in my experience). This particular client wants to save a few bucks by maintaining the site herself. She doesn't seem to realize that her time is valuable as well and better used when devoted to her strengths. I think most of us know that we need to call a plumber or electrician as they are experts in their fields, and rightly so. Nuff said... Now that I have a realization that I need to incorporate some sort of a CMS solution, can anyone lead me to resources that may help to teach me the ropes? I am leaning towards PHP, as I am somewhat familiar with the language. Thanks. Regards, Kevin. On 7/10/07, Matthew Ohlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Ross wrote: Hi all, I am trying to find a solution to a nagging problem. Most of my client's sites are not very dynamic and I update them as the client requires. Because the updates are very infrequent, I have not been charging very much for this ongoing support. However, I have a new client who wants to maintain her own site (one I designed for her). She is pretty good on the computer, but doesn't really know her way around HTML or CSS. I am agonizing over how to pass the torch over to her. The site is not extremely complex, but is more than a little task for someone who does not design web sites. I am wondering for advice on this situation and I am also wondering how others handle ongoing updates after the initial design has been implemented. I am also wondering if a CMS system would, in any way, be a solution to a situation like this. Thanks. Be careful if you don't use a CMS system. I donated a web site for a local organization and it was a beauty...since I no longer had the time to devote to updating I turned it over to a so called 'web designer' in the community (at the recommendation of the executive director). Sadly, he has basically ruined my site because he has no idea what he is doing and has no concept of web standards--or style for that matter. It is a real shame that so many people charge for and design web sites that don't follow any sort of standards. Matthew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] RE: WSG Digest
Thanks Greg, just taking a look at WebGUI, looks really good. On 11/07/07, Greg Hacke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would avoid CMSMadeSimple It's not a bad CMS but _everything_ is after-market and it is very difficult to maintain as standards compliant. I use WebGUI (www.webgui.org) right now for CMS work. It maintains compliance quite well - although its server requirements are a bit higher. Greg Hacke Idle Hands Press :: idlehandspress.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] :: IM greghacke +1.614.388.9106 :: Skype greghacke There is no right. -Original Message- From: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 12 July 2007 0:19 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: WSG Digest * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:17:03 +0100 Subject: Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits Funny you should send that one Kevin, I am literally just scoping around for a similar solution to the site I have just built. I was recommended these two aparrently free CMS solutions by another client. http://www.dotnetnuke.com/ http://www.cmsmadesimple.org/ I am only just taking a look now so not sure how standards compliant they are. The last site I built used a combination of Contribute and Wordpress, not so pretty and kind of limiting. Depends on what they want to update and the type of content I guess. I would like to hear of any other free open source CMS solutions there are out there? preferably one using PHP, but open to suggestions. Cheers Paul On 10/07/07, Kevin Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I find it very disappointing that very few clients really appreciate the amount of hard work that goes into designing and building a site (in my experience). This particular client wants to save a few bucks by maintaining the site herself. She doesn't seem to realize that her time is valuable as well and better used when devoted to her strengths. I think most of us know that we need to call a plumber or electrician as they are experts in their fields, and rightly so. Nuff said... Now that I have a realization that I need to incorporate some sort of a CMS solution, can anyone lead me to resources that may help to teach me the ropes? I am leaning towards PHP, as I am somewhat familiar with the language. Thanks. Regards, Kevin. On 7/10/07, Matthew Ohlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Ross wrote: Hi all, I am trying to find a solution to a nagging problem. Most of my client's sites are not very dynamic and I update them as the client requires. Because the updates are very infrequent, I have not been charging very much for this ongoing support. However, I have a new client who wants to maintain her own site (one I designed for her). She is pretty good on the computer, but doesn't really know her way around HTML or CSS. I am agonizing over how to pass the torch over to her. The site is not extremely complex, but is more than a little task for someone who does not design web sites. I am wondering for advice on this situation and I am also wondering how others handle ongoing updates after the initial design has been implemented. I am also wondering if a CMS system would, in any way, be a solution to a situation like this. Thanks. Be careful if you don't use a CMS system. I donated a web site for a local organization and it was a beauty...since I no longer had the time to devote to updating I turned it over to a so called 'web designer' in the community (at the recommendation of the executive director). Sadly, he has basically ruined my site because he has no idea what he is doing and has no concept of web standards--or style for that matter. It is a real shame that so many people charge for and design web sites that don't follow any sort of standards. Matthew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join
[WSG] Javascript image rotator
Hi all, I thought this would be an easy one to Google, but yet I find myself here again asking your professional opinions :) Trying to find a script for random image rotation on a website. Meaning the images would rotate every 5 seconds or so automatically, without the need for a refresh. The only requirements would be: - A fade effect between the rotating images. - A fall back so users without javascript will still get a single image. Any links would be greatly appreciated. Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Javascript image rotator
Thanks for your reply Barney Hmm, I have seen a few examples of people using Jscript only to do it. I don't need to modify the image, just reload a new one every five seconds or so. I can find scripts to do this, just need the fade bit I guess. Apparently, I can't use Flash for this. Cheers Paul On 12/07/07, Barney Carroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: swifr offers cute image modifying effects (including rotation) using Flash, and degrades gracefully. http://www.swfir.com/ However it can't do the other things you're asking for by itself. The problem is really the image rotating - everything else could be done with lightweight javascript but actually modifying an image is a bit beyond its reach and as such that puts you in the Flash object department. Regards, Barney Paul Collins wrote: Hi all, I thought this would be an easy one to Google, but yet I find myself here again asking your professional opinions :) Trying to find a script for random image rotation on a website. Meaning the images would rotate every 5 seconds or so automatically, without the need for a refresh. The only requirements would be: - A fade effect between the rotating images. - A fall back so users without javascript will still get a single image. Any links would be greatly appreciated. Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Javascript image rotator
Hey thanks for your help Ed, Got that working now, all looks good. Does work with Javascript turned off, but only if you put the original image in a NOSCRIPT tag. Certainly works well, so thanks for all your help. I found the original here BTW: http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex14/fadeinslideshow.htm Thanks again Paul On 12/07/07, Web Man Walking [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I did one for a client of mine. Feel free to take a look... http://thepaperchain.co.uk/ Not sure where I found the code but it is excellent and without JS on, it shows an image. !*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*! Chris Ed successfully ran the 2007 Edinburgh Marathon for the Meningitis Research Foundation We are still looking for sponsors! Our Progress: http://wmwmarathon.com/ Sponsor Us: http://justgiving.com/wmwmarathon !*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*! Regards Ed Henderson Web Man Walking - web design usability experts t: 0131 669 8800 m: 0781 253 6964 f: 0797 062 1532 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: web-man-walking.com a: 48 Eastfield, Edinburgh, EH15 2PN skype: webmanwalking msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] New technology, old fashioned service -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Collins Sent: 12 July 2007 12:45 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Javascript image rotator Hi all, I thought this would be an easy one to Google, but yet I find myself here again asking your professional opinions :) Trying to find a script for random image rotation on a website. Meaning the images would rotate every 5 seconds or so automatically, without the need for a refresh. The only requirements would be: - A fade effect between the rotating images. - A fall back so users without javascript will still get a single image. Any links would be greatly appreciated. Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Javascript image rotator
I guess I thought the original poster wanted something more for a simple banner vs an actual gallery script. You're right. I didn't go back far enough in the thread. Sorry. You are all right, thanks for your replies everyone. Sorry, I've been away from the machine for a few days, but I did get it sorted before I left. Thanks again. Paul On 13/07/07, Al Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Micky Hulse [EMAIL PROTECTED] I guess I thought the original poster wanted something more for a simple banner vs an actual gallery script. You're right. I didn't go back far enough in the thread. Sorry. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Absolute positioning in the flow of the document?
Hi all, I've spent a while trying to figure this out and I'm not sure there is a solution. I've got two levels of navigation here; visually one sits on top of the other, but the second level will change according to what top level link you click: http://www.method.com.au/newWebsite/ So, my problem is, I initially had two seperate lists, one appearing seperately after the other. ul class=firstLevel li class=homea href=/index.phpstrongimg src=/newWebsite/images/topNavHome.gif alt=Home//strong/a/li li class=developmenta href=/newWebsite/development.phpimg src=/newWebsite/images/topNavDevelopment.gif alt=Development//a/li /ul ul class=secondLevel lia href=/About this website/a/li lia href=/How to use this website/a/li /ul Visually, this is fine. In particular, when I enlarge the text on the page the second level will continue to push down as the square blocks from the first level start to wrap. The problem is that semantically this is not correct, the second level here is relating to the home link and therefore should be a sub-list contained in the LI of the home link. If you look at my example link, this is how the code appears now. My problem is, this method caused the top level nav to break as all the other blocks pushed away to the right of the second level text. This could be fixed by making the second level navigation absolute and giving a padding in EM's. The problem I am left with now is the second level is now out of the document flow, so when you go to enlarge the text the top level begins to overlap the text as the blocks begin to wrap. Sorry for the long email, but my basic question is, does anyone have another suggestion of positioning that second level nav without taking it out of the document flow? Thanks for any help! Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Absolute positioning in the flow of the document?
Sorry, yes Phillip. I haven't done PC testing at all yet, I'm on Firefox on the Mac. Wanted to decide how to code this before I get onto testing. Should have mentioned that! Cheers On 02/08/07, Philip Kiff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Collins wrote: I've spent a while trying to figure this out and I'm not sure there is a solution. I've got two levels of navigation here; visually one sits on top of the other, but the second level will change according to what top level link you click: http://www.method.com.au/newWebsite/ Probably you are just in the middle of making changes or something, but the nav menu doesn't't seem to show up at all on my Internet Explorer version 7 or version 6? It does show up correctly on Opera and Firefox. Phil. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Absolute positioning in the flow of the document?
Thanks Gunlag I think you are right about semantics there. I don't have to have it as a Sub-nav I guess. I will see how much trouble I have getting this to work in IE; if it doesn't work I will definitely put it back to the way you have suggested. I'm not terrible happy about using absolute positioning in this site. Thanks for taking the time to reply, much appreciated. Paul On 02/08/07, Gunlaug Sørtun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Collins wrote: http://www.method.com.au/newWebsite/ ... The problem is that semantically this is not correct, the second level here is relating to the home link and therefore should be a sub-list contained in the LI of the home link. If you look at my example link, this is how the code appears now. I think you've got your semantics wrong by over-complicating those relations, and thereby creating an (almost) unsolvable design problem. You can of course let your semantic reasoning control the entire design - change its appearance until it works, but I don't think you want that. IMO: the second-level list doesn't/shouldn't relate to a particular list-item in the first-level list. Instead it does/should relate to the relevant _page_ itself. The links in the second-level list branches out to connect other pages (or sections or whatever) to that particular _page_. This means that it doesn't really matter, semantically, where on the page the second-level list is, as it has no relations to any particular element on the page. The relevant second-level list just has to be on the relevant page. The fact that you want the second-level list to appear under the first-level list, is perfectly understandable and reasonable - and a good design-choice, IMO. You should then keep the second-level list separate, in the flow below the first-level one, and not complicate things any further. Your design is fine, and it can take whatever when you get the order right - again. After all: semantics works best when it actually works in the real world. Otherwise it doesn't really make sense, IMHO :-) regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] When to use image replacements?
Hi Lee, I think Image replacement is probably best to use if you are developing for Mobiles; as these are becoming more relevant. You don't want people to have to scroll past 10 navigation images in their mobile browser everytime the page loads. The logo should be a graphic as you want people to see it in a mobile browser. Images with relevant copy For example, if you visit Panic's website here: http://www.panic.com/ coda/ and go to the books tab, there is a picture of a book with some relevant copy a user would find interesting. Again would this be a candidate for image replacement? I think these would be a normal candidate for IR, as the icons will take a long time to load in a Mobile Browser, plus you'll need to scroll past them every time. Better to just have a text link. However, these are all apps that wouldn't work on a mobile anyway, so not sure how relevant it would be in this case! As far as print goes, I would imagine as a guess you want to take things like navigation and buttons out of the page you are printing anyway and just show the body content of that page. I am sure this wouldn't apply to all cases of course. There is of course sIFR if you want your graphic titles to be enlarge-able as well, if you aren't aware already. Cheers On 06/08/07, Kit Grose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The biggest issue I see with image replacement (which I, too, use ridiculously often) is with printing. Most browsers remove background images from printing, and since image replacement usually makes extensive use of background images, the print will usually only list the text (which clients tend to dislike). This has got one specific benefit, though: if your logo is usually set reversed (white on dark), you're not left printing a badly anti- aliased, low-resolution white image on white paper. So my advice is to use image replacement for navigation, buttons, etc., but not for logos or images that you require to be able to be printed by a grandmother. Cheers, Kit Grose *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Imageready CS3
Is it bothering anyone else out there that they've removed Imageready in CS3? I've tried to use Fireworks and it just isn't the same... Anyway, I found this petition online, quite short of signatures so far, but I guess no-one is really putting it out there and it's only been up a month. http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/imageready-cs3/ (to see the signatures, click the signatures link at the top. You don't have to donate, don't click that link...) So, if it bothers you as well, sign the petition, help start the revolution :) I hope this is on topic, isn't it?! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Cross platform line-height?
Hi all, Just wondering if anyone here has ever found a way of achieving a consistent line-height for Windows and OS X? Been searching for a while and can't seem to find the answer... Can it be done? Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Cross platform line-height?
Sorry, I meant to say: Any idea how I can get them to be exactly the same height? Using CSS or something simple :) On 17/08/07, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Phillipe, Thanks for your reply. I've been given a design that has a box with specified height containing Web Text. It's CMS too :) I've told the client many times that in the design the height should be expandable, but they have refused to change, so the end solution is offering a word count for content added in the CMS. So, I've built it, but the line-height of the text is larger in all Windows Browsers compared to OS X. I've set a fixed line-height in my stylesheet, but Windows will still display a larger line-height than OS X. Any idea how I can get them to be exactly the same height? Cheers Paul On 17/08/07, Philippe Wittenbergh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 17, 2007, at 10:07 PM, Paul Collins wrote: Just wondering if anyone here has ever found a way of achieving a consistent line-height for Windows and OS X? Been searching for a while and can't seem to find the answer... For a given font[size][face] you'll get consistent results using length (e.g. 1.5) across a wide range of UA's that support the css 1 and css 2.1 font-properties. Consistent doesn't mean that all UA's on all platforms will display a line-box at exactly the same pixel size. Different platforms have different (raw) font-metrics, different UA's use different methods for rounding off numbers, etc. What exactly is your problem ? Philippe --- Philippe Wittenbergh http://emps.l-c-n.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Cross platform line-height?
Hi Phillipe, Thanks for your reply. I've been given a design that has a box with specified height containing Web Text. It's CMS too :) I've told the client many times that in the design the height should be expandable, but they have refused to change, so the end solution is offering a word count for content added in the CMS. So, I've built it, but the line-height of the text is larger in all Windows Browsers compared to OS X. I've set a fixed line-height in my stylesheet, but Windows will still display a larger line-height than OS X. Any idea how I can get them to be exactly the same height? Cheers Paul On 17/08/07, Philippe Wittenbergh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 17, 2007, at 10:07 PM, Paul Collins wrote: Just wondering if anyone here has ever found a way of achieving a consistent line-height for Windows and OS X? Been searching for a while and can't seem to find the answer... For a given font[size][face] you'll get consistent results using length (e.g. 1.5) across a wide range of UA's that support the css 1 and css 2.1 font-properties. Consistent doesn't mean that all UA's on all platforms will display a line-box at exactly the same pixel size. Different platforms have different (raw) font-metrics, different UA's use different methods for rounding off numbers, etc. What exactly is your problem ? Philippe --- Philippe Wittenbergh http://emps.l-c-n.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Priority 2 error - Clearly identify the target of each link.
I agree with what everyone is saying, altough it is not always feasible to make the link text descriptive and sometimes makes it look clunky when you've added the read more link straight after the title, having to write read more about... and repeat the title again. All that aside, it is a requirement, so it must be followed. I did find Joe Clark's comments at @media interesting though. If you go to his speaker's notes and search for Headings and links read out of context, it's worth a read and a valid point. http://joeclark.org/appearances/atmedia2007/ Anyway, until it is no longer a requirement, I'll be making my links descriptive. On 21/10/2007, russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You have given a good reason, still, I think that criteria should have room for flexibility (just as George has given the same reason) because, link texts in the articles aren't the same and the excerpt of the article should have given enough information for a user (including screen reader user) whether he wants to continue reading the full article. If my argument is prudent, I think validator should have something like Tee, I apologise if I misread your original post. You mentioned a ...'continue reading' link... and then mentioned ...more than one title attribute with 'continue reading' I assumed you were referring to the content of the link being the same for each link - like this: a href= title=continue readingcontinue reading/a a href= title=continue readingcontinue reading/a However, you may have been referring to the content of the title attribute only - like this: a href= title=continue readingUnique content/a a href= title=continue readingSome other content/a If this is the case, then I agree with Gunlaug - that this is much less of an issues. The title is designed to provide additional information, and is rarely used by assistive devices. As you say, Steve Faulkner has raised issues with the title attribute - even though his original article is not online, he gives a brief summary here: http://webstandardsgroup.org/features/steve-faulkner.cfm#seven due to its present support in browsers, it can actually add to making content less accessible. Guideline 13.1 states that Link text should be meaningful enough to make sense when read out of context. It goes on to say In addition... content developers may further clarify the target of a link with an informative link title. To me, this implies that this title is not essential. It could also be interpreted that as long as your content is meaningful and unique, you should pass this checkpoint. Someone with a deeper understanding of this checkpoint may be able to clarify this! Again, apologies for misreading and for any confusion. Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Floated list items of differing heights
Hi all, I've managed to avoid doing this for while, but I'm doing a CMS job and the content in a floated group of LI's is going to be differeing heights. They need to wrap onto a new line when they hit the right edge of the container, causing layout problems. I've found this article, but it doesn't work for me and seems like a lot of work. Has anyone see a better way of getting it to work? http://www.ruzee.com/blog/2007/05/align-list-items-horizontally-with-css/comment-page-1/ Cheers *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Floated list items of differing heights
Thanks for your replies. Unfortunately, the site hasn't gone live yet, so I can't show anything. It's the exact same problem as the examples given on the link I sent. Just wish there was a simpler way of fixing it other than giving it a fixed height. Cheers for your help On 25/10/2007, Matthew Pennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 24/10/2007, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've managed to avoid doing this for while, but I'm doing a CMS job and the content in a floated group of LI's is going to be differeing heights. They need to wrap onto a new line when they hit the right edge of the container, causing layout problems. You either need to force the list items to all occupy the same height, by using a fixed height, or use a server-side counter that sets clear: left on every Nth item. -- Matthew Pennell // m: 07904 432123 // www.thewatchmakerproject.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Floated list items of differing heights
Hi Mathew, I have gone the path of clearing left on the first LI of each new line. This doesn't seem to work in all versions of IE for me, have you got it working yourself? Cheers Paul On 25/10/2007, Matthew Pennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 24/10/2007, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've managed to avoid doing this for while, but I'm doing a CMS job and the content in a floated group of LI's is going to be differeing heights. They need to wrap onto a new line when they hit the right edge of the container, causing layout problems. You either need to force the list items to all occupy the same height, by using a fixed height, or use a server-side counter that sets clear: left on every Nth item. -- Matthew Pennell // m: 07904 432123 // www.thewatchmakerproject.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Testing emails for Outlook 2007
Hi all, Just wondering if anyone has found a clever way of testing your HTML emails for Outlook 2007? I don't have Vista and can't see myself buying it just yet! I thought there may be some kind of online rendering engine setup by now, but couldn't find anything in a search. Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Testing emails for Outlook 2007
Thanks for your replies everyone. I was hoping Browsercam had gotten onto it or a site like that. I think the best thing to do is grab a version for XP, I didn't actually know I could add it to that. Thanks for your help Paul On 07/11/2007, Joshua Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/7/07, Mohamed Jama [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You could always open the page in word document and if everything looks fine there it will look fine in outlook 2007 since its using MS Word to render! Problem with that is potential differences between Word HTML rendering 2003 - 2007. I haven't really looked into it but it would stand to reason there may be differences... they stupidly thought it good enough to be the sole renderer for the most widely used email client on the planet, so you'd at least hope it improved... *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Skip nav links, tab through
Hi all, I've added a hidden skip navigation link to my site, that I want to show up when you tab through each page. I'm using the method described on the webaim site: http://www.webaim.org/techniques/skipnav/#focus Problem is, I realised that you can't actually tab through the links on a page using Firefox or Safari. I am guessing this has to do with Tabbed Browsing shortcuts?! Does anyone know a better way of doing this, so when someone tabs through your site they get the Skip Navigation link displayed? Cheers *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Skip nav links, tab through
Thanks for your help everyone. For some reason my version of Firefox
and Safari are both not tabbing through links. They just keep tabbing
around the form fields on the actual browser.
Anyway, I will check it on another machine. Thanks Thierry and Jamie,
I have added the :focus element now, so should be all good once I can
test on another machine.
Thanks everyone.
On 15/11/2007, Jamie Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Paul,
I've actually seen this before, and this approach is pretty much ideal, the
only tweak you have to make is as well as having a:active you also need
a:focus and this will fix your issue.
ul.skipNav li a:focus, ul.skipNav li a:active { /* your active styles*/}
Hope this helps
Cheers
Jamie.
On 15/11/2007, Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to tab through the links in
Firefox. Links are not on the tab sequence in Safari by default, but you
can
turn that on in the Preferences. I have no idea if users actually do in
practice.
Steve
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Paul Collins
Sent: 15 November 2007 14:45
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Skip nav links, tab through
Hi all,
I've added a hidden skip navigation link to my site, that I want to show
up when you tab through each page. I'm using the method described on the
webaim site:
http://www.webaim.org/techniques/skipnav/#focus
Problem is, I realised that you can't actually tab through the links on a
page using Firefox or Safari. I am guessing this has to do with Tabbed
Browsing shortcuts?!
Does anyone know a better way of doing this, so when someone tabs through
your site they get the Skip Navigation link displayed?
Cheers
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Re: [WSG] Testing emails for Outlook 2007
Thanks again for your replies on this guys, just got back on my email. It might be worth investing 10 bucks in campaign monitor just to see what they recommend. Cheers On 07/11/2007, Chris Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tim Palac wrote: Paul, You might also check out Campaign Monitor - they have a new service where, for 10 bucks, they'll show you where your email fails to pass spam filters and also gives you screenshots of what it looks like in all the various email programs including Outlook 2007. Enjoy! I was going to suggest the same - and they also have free templates that are already tested: http://www.campaignmonitor.com/resources/templates.aspx -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Skip nav links, tab through
Thanks for your replies Steve and Phillipe, sorry to take so long to get back. My Safari works well now, so that's good news. I can't figure out how to set this up in Firefox, any ideas? Cheers On 16/11/2007, Tee G. Peng [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 15, 2007, at 5:42 PM, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote: You need to turn FKA (Full Keyboard Access) 'on' in System Preferences Keyboard and Mouse. Also for Safari and Camino: Safari: Preferences Advanced: see the checkbox. Camino: Preferences Web Features: see the checkboxes at the bottom. Thanks Steve and Philippe, Finally got it working. I didn't check the 'Advanced' as I am average user :-) So much for the universal access of Apple! Glad to know Camino has this feature too (I swear I checked it) as this is my default browser for web browsing. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Reset the styles on a submit button with CSS
Hi all,
Here's an odd one I can't seem to solve. I had to style all input
fields in a form with a black background, white text. Rather than give
them a class, I've just given all inputs this styling
EG: input {background:#000; color:#FFF;}
My issue is that the submit buttons now have this styling also in
certain browsers. I'd like to give them a class and set them back to
their original look, but background:none; doesn't work. Is there a way
of doing this does anyone know?
I am aware that I could give every field a class and add the black
background to that, but I'd like to do it the other way around and
only have a class for the buttons, less classy!
Any ideas?
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Re: [WSG] Reset the styles on a submit button with CSS
Thanks for taking the time to reply everyone. Much appreciated.
Not quite what you asked, but have you considered using the button element
for your submit button instead of an input? Removes this kind of annoyance.
Yes, I did forget about that one. However though, I'm stuck in this
.NET vortex and I don't have much control over field elements.
You could put them in two separate containers/divs and give the one
containing the form elements you want to style an id.
Doesn't have to be a div though. You could use a list, or anything else that
is containing the form inputs you want to style.
I think you're right Darren. I can just add an ID to the fieldset. Makes sense.
You can use CSS selectors:
input[type=text],input[type=password],input[type=checkbox],input[type=radio]
{background:#000; color:#FFF;}
But this doesn't work in IE6...
Thanks Samuel. I am already using them actually, IE6 is the one
browser that's causing the problem :) No surprise there of course!
Cheers and thanks for your help.
2008/5/6 Nick Cowie [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Paul
Go have a look at http://nickcowie.com/presentation/s5-button.html
it should show what you can and can't style on input type submit
(particularly safari/camino), and what you can do with the button element.
Note it is a couple of years old and I don't use the button element at the
moment. Waiting for XHTML-MP 1.2 to get into common use.
2008/5/6 Matthew Pennell [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 1:52 PM, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
My issue is that the submit buttons now have this styling also in
certain browsers. I'd like to give them a class and set them back to
their original look, but background:none; doesn't work. Is there a way
of doing this does anyone know?
Not quite what you asked, but have you considered using the button
element for your submit button instead of an input? Removes this kind of
annoyance.
--
- Matthew
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--
Nick Cowie
http://nickcowie.com
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Re: [WSG] Background on body not aligning with tiled background on wrapper DIV
Thanks for your reply Adam. I can't really put what's I have now due to copyright restrictions, or I would have. I was hoping someone had encountered this before and would know the answer. I'll have to try and set up a dummy page later today when I have more time. Thanks Paul 2008/5/15 Adam Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: can we see an example? Paul Collins wrote: Hi all, I've seen this problem before, but can't remember how I solved it. Basically, I have put a centred background that repeats vertically on the body of my page using CSS. The main wrapper div is also centred and has a background sits on top of the Body one, but is only a fixed height Basically, they need to match up where they meet, which is working fine in Firefox, Safari, Opera, etc. The only place it's having an issue is IE6 7. I know what the problem is; the background is centred and the width of your browser can be an odd or even number, so it can't sit dead centre all the time. If I drag the browser in to resize it, the backgrounds keep matching up then falling out of place. I have solved this before without adding an extra div for the body background, but I just can't remember how I did it. Does anyone have an idea? Thanks Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Background on body not aligning with tiled background on wrapper DIV
Hi all, I've seen this problem before, but can't remember how I solved it. Basically, I have put a centred background that repeats vertically on the body of my page using CSS. The main wrapper div is also centred and has a background sits on top of the Body one, but is only a fixed height Basically, they need to match up where they meet, which is working fine in Firefox, Safari, Opera, etc. The only place it's having an issue is IE6 7. I know what the problem is; the background is centred and the width of your browser can be an odd or even number, so it can't sit dead centre all the time. If I drag the browser in to resize it, the backgrounds keep matching up then falling out of place. I have solved this before without adding an extra div for the body background, but I just can't remember how I did it. Does anyone have an idea? Thanks Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Background on body not aligning with tiled background on wrapper DIV
Hi all, I've managed to put a page together. If you look at the green area in Firefox and IE you will notice a small gap at the right of the green area in IE. If you try to resize the browser by dragging it, you will notice the gap keeps closing then appearing. It's to do with the odd and even number of pixels on the window size when you have a centred background. Anyway, here is the test URL, anyone got an idea of how to solve this without an extra DIV?! http://paulcollinslondon.com/test/ Cheers Paul 2008/5/15 Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Thanks for your reply Adam. I can't really put what's I have now due to copyright restrictions, or I would have. I was hoping someone had encountered this before and would know the answer. I'll have to try and set up a dummy page later today when I have more time. Thanks Paul 2008/5/15 Adam Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: can we see an example? Paul Collins wrote: Hi all, I've seen this problem before, but can't remember how I solved it. Basically, I have put a centred background that repeats vertically on the body of my page using CSS. The main wrapper div is also centred and has a background sits on top of the Body one, but is only a fixed height Basically, they need to match up where they meet, which is working fine in Firefox, Safari, Opera, etc. The only place it's having an issue is IE6 7. I know what the problem is; the background is centred and the width of your browser can be an odd or even number, so it can't sit dead centre all the time. If I drag the browser in to resize it, the backgrounds keep matching up then falling out of place. I have solved this before without adding an extra div for the body background, but I just can't remember how I did it. Does anyone have an idea? Thanks Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Background on body not aligning with tiled background on wrapper DIV
A good idea Matijs, but doesn't seem to work. Thanks for taking a look anyway. 2008/5/15 Matijs [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Does overflow: hidden on the containing div and making the green bar wider help? On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:23 PM, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I've managed to put a page together. If you look at the green area in Firefox and IE you will notice a small gap at the right of the green area in IE. If you try to resize the browser by dragging it, you will notice the gap keeps closing then appearing. It's to do with the odd and even number of pixels on the window size when you have a centred background. Anyway, here is the test URL, anyone got an idea of how to solve this without an extra DIV?! http://paulcollinslondon.com/test/ Cheers Paul 2008/5/15 Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Thanks for your reply Adam. I can't really put what's I have now due to copyright restrictions, or I would have. I was hoping someone had encountered this before and would know the answer. I'll have to try and set up a dummy page later today when I have more time. Thanks Paul 2008/5/15 Adam Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: can we see an example? Paul Collins wrote: Hi all, I've seen this problem before, but can't remember how I solved it. Basically, I have put a centred background that repeats vertically on the body of my page using CSS. The main wrapper div is also centred and has a background sits on top of the Body one, but is only a fixed height Basically, they need to match up where they meet, which is working fine in Firefox, Safari, Opera, etc. The only place it's having an issue is IE6 7. I know what the problem is; the background is centred and the width of your browser can be an odd or even number, so it can't sit dead centre all the time. If I drag the browser in to resize it, the backgrounds keep matching up then falling out of place. I have solved this before without adding an extra div for the body background, but I just can't remember how I did it. Does anyone have an idea? Thanks Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] AJAX short courses london
Hi all, I hope this is on topic. I'm trying to find a short course on AJAX in london and having troubles finding one that is of a reasonable price (IE- less than £300 for a half day). Could anyone recommend me one or possibly a good school to look into? Thanks for any help, Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] AJAX short courses london
Oh yes, I'm not bothered about Accredations really. More concerned about the quality of the course and most employers I've come across are more concerned with your experience. Cheers again! 2008/6/3 Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi all, Sorry, I lost this thread. Perhaps you are right about the online training with Video. I just find it easier to have someone to ask face to face - you learn quicker that way. I'll look into this IRC thingo, never actually taken a look. Thanks for your replies. Paul 2008/6/3 Jennie K [EMAIL PROTECTED]: You are probably right - it's just some employers demand accreditation - although I am in Aus not UK (so Í'm sure it's different here). I learnt most of my skills on the job and from books but ended up getting some kind of accreditation as well. Also just wanted to let you know its $50 US dollars not pounds - so you might find it is only 25 UK pounds On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 3:38 AM, Ben Dodson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in. I've always learnt things from either books or from chatting with other developers in IRC (there are no doubt some ajax specific groups - I recommend #jquery for the jQuery library which is my particular ajax weapon of choice). Accreditations are definitely not required in the web development world - the worst developers I've interviewed are always the ones with accreditations whereas the best have just taught themselves or been taught by their peers! Cheers, Ben -- e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: http://bendodson.com/ On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: so where else can you be taught in bed for £50* (*stop sniggering in the back there!) and as for accreditation, some of my best developers were not accredited and their experience counted for much more than any course could provide. They are much better at independent thinking, self-study for things they need to know more about, and less likely to get stuck in a conceptual rut. Joe On May 30 2008, at 22:39, James Jeffery wrote: Only problem with the Lynda.com DVDs is sometimes they can be outdated. Although, this one is £50 and looks good. I might actually buy this, i like watching the movies when in bed. http://movielibrary.lynda.com/html/modPage.asp?ID=480 On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 9:51 PM, Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree. I have rarely seen any course in web technologies that you couldn't get further for much less money with either a video tutorial from places like lynda.com or from good how to books from great publishers like new riders, friends of ed, o'reilleys, etc. you can study at your own pace, replay and review difficult bits, skip over others, and the resource stays with you.. On May 27 2008, at 05:28, Jennie K wrote: If you are not after accreditation try this website www.lynda.com - it's all online and you study at your own pace. I've recommended the training to numerous people and they have all said it is of good quality. You can try some of the free courses before committing - there are also books and cds if you don't like the online version. On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 11:20 PM, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I hope this is on topic. I'm trying to find a short course on AJAX in london and having troubles finding one that is of a reasonable price (IE- less than £300 for a half day). Could anyone recommend me one or possibly a good school to look into? Thanks for any help, Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.typingthevoid.com www.joiz.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.typingthevoid.com www.joiz.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail
Re: [WSG] AJAX short courses london
Hi all, Sorry, I lost this thread. Perhaps you are right about the online training with Video. I just find it easier to have someone to ask face to face - you learn quicker that way. I'll look into this IRC thingo, never actually taken a look. Thanks for your replies. Paul 2008/6/3 Jennie K [EMAIL PROTECTED]: You are probably right - it's just some employers demand accreditation - although I am in Aus not UK (so Í'm sure it's different here). I learnt most of my skills on the job and from books but ended up getting some kind of accreditation as well. Also just wanted to let you know its $50 US dollars not pounds - so you might find it is only 25 UK pounds On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 3:38 AM, Ben Dodson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in. I've always learnt things from either books or from chatting with other developers in IRC (there are no doubt some ajax specific groups - I recommend #jquery for the jQuery library which is my particular ajax weapon of choice). Accreditations are definitely not required in the web development world - the worst developers I've interviewed are always the ones with accreditations whereas the best have just taught themselves or been taught by their peers! Cheers, Ben -- e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: http://bendodson.com/ On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: so where else can you be taught in bed for £50* (*stop sniggering in the back there!) and as for accreditation, some of my best developers were not accredited and their experience counted for much more than any course could provide. They are much better at independent thinking, self-study for things they need to know more about, and less likely to get stuck in a conceptual rut. Joe On May 30 2008, at 22:39, James Jeffery wrote: Only problem with the Lynda.com DVDs is sometimes they can be outdated. Although, this one is £50 and looks good. I might actually buy this, i like watching the movies when in bed. http://movielibrary.lynda.com/html/modPage.asp?ID=480 On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 9:51 PM, Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree. I have rarely seen any course in web technologies that you couldn't get further for much less money with either a video tutorial from places like lynda.com or from good how to books from great publishers like new riders, friends of ed, o'reilleys, etc. you can study at your own pace, replay and review difficult bits, skip over others, and the resource stays with you.. On May 27 2008, at 05:28, Jennie K wrote: If you are not after accreditation try this website www.lynda.com - it's all online and you study at your own pace. I've recommended the training to numerous people and they have all said it is of good quality. You can try some of the free courses before committing - there are also books and cds if you don't like the online version. On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 11:20 PM, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I hope this is on topic. I'm trying to find a short course on AJAX in london and having troubles finding one that is of a reasonable price (IE- less than £300 for a half day). Could anyone recommend me one or possibly a good school to look into? Thanks for any help, Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.typingthevoid.com www.joiz.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.typingthevoid.com www.joiz.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List
Re: [WSG] Marking up company logo
To throw another question in here, should the page title therefore be different to the main heading of the page? I thought the content in the page title should be as specific as possible for SEO, including the heirarchy? So, for example titleSite title - Section Title - Page title/title And h1Page title, section title or Logo?/h1 Once you have it in the title tag, does it matter whether you have the logo in a H1 or not? Should you have something different between the title and main heading? Cheers 2008/6/3 Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED]: My 2 pence ... titlePage title - Site title/title div id=brand pimg alt=Site title ... //p /div div id=content h1Page Title/h1 ... /div div id=search h1Search/h1 form ... /div div id=nav h1Navigation/h1 ul ... /div 2008/6/3 Rick Lecoat [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 3 Jun 2008, at 07:04, Matijs wrote: How about: titleThe Times/title h1Homepage/h1 h2There's water on mars/h2 titleThe Times/title h1Financial stuff/h1 h2Redmond stock going down further/h2 etc... Where would one fit in a company logo? Wouldn't a background image be best? And if so, where? My understanding of the title tag is that it is the title of the page, not the name of the site, and ideally every page should have a different title (at least from an SEO point of view) appropriate to its content -- so the above examples are not ideal IMHO. Re. logos as background images, that leaves anyone viewing the page without styles turned on out in the cold as far as seeing the company logo is concerned. Dan Cederholm uses a method whereby the logo is both a background image *and* a regular img tag, depending on whether you have styles on or off. That's my preferred technique. I just put the logo image in a div id=logo and keep the H1 for the page's own title. -- Rick Lecoat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Outlook 2007
Hi all, I am building an email for Outlook 2007, oh joy. I am aware that you can no longer use background images, that's fine. The one thing I want to confirm is whether the background colour will disappear when you nest a table inside your TD. I can't test here, but this will cause me a lot of pain. So, for example: table cellpadding=10 cellspacing=0 border=0 tr td bgcolor=#00 table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 border=0 tr tdSome text/td /tr /table /td /tr /table Will I lose my black background there on the outer table, or can I just add it again to the inner table? Obviously the outer table has a cellpadding of 10, so I need the black background to appear on both. Thanks for any help. Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Firefox 3 candidate
Does anyone know if it will replace your version of Firefox 2, or will it run side by side?! Cheers *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Firefox 3 candidate
Hi all, Thanks for your replies to this thread last week. I'm on a PC today and trying to get both versions of Firefox running, the only issue is, I can't find where to download version 2 of Firefox anymore! Mozilla have made it very hard to find previous versions Does anyone know where you can get version 2?! Cheers 2008/6/19 Paul Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED]: select custom install and install it to another directory (something like /Mozilla/Firefox3) and the two will run side-by-side. You can do this with Opera too. :) Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Firefox 3 candidate
Thanks Sagnik, that is a good site! 2008/6/23 Sagnik Dey [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Paul, You can download Firefox Ver 2.0 from . http://www.oldapps.com/firefox.htm This is a very good website for downloading older appz. -- Cheers to life Sagnik :: 26four79.com On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 3:31 PM, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Thanks for your replies to this thread last week. I'm on a PC today and trying to get both versions of Firefox running, the only issue is, I can't find where to download version 2 of Firefox anymore! Mozilla have made it very hard to find previous versions Does anyone know where you can get version 2?! Cheers 2008/6/19 Paul Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED]: select custom install and install it to another directory (something like /Mozilla/Firefox3) and the two will run side-by-side. You can do this with Opera too. :) Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS
Hi all, I'm trying to find a comprehensive list of Mobile phone browsers and CSS support. I currently have a Nokia N70 and as far as I can see it doesn't support CSS at all. But, perhaps with a stylesheet targeting mobile phones it would?! The main reason is, I am trying to decide whether putting the main logo of a site in as an inline image is better than a background, as it would still show up with CSS not supported. But then, how many mobile browsers still don't support CSS whatsoever?! Any advice or links would be great. Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Firefox 3 candidate
Thanks for your replies everyone. I finally got both versions working! 2008/6/23 Felix Miata [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 2008/06/23 11:42 (GMT+0100) Steve Green apparently typed: You can still get some old versions from the Mozilla FTP site at http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/ It's ludicrous that they have removed some old versions - can they really not afford the disk space? Obviously users should not be installing old versions but developers and testers still need them for testing. We download and store all the English versions but it's not practical to save all the localised versions too. They should still be there, but on http://archive.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/ . That is currently redirecting to http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/ which I think is broken behavior. ftp://archive.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases works. -- Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Matthew 7:12 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS
Thanks for your replies everyone, those are good resources. 2008/6/24 Jens Nedal [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Paul Collins wrote: Hi all, I'm trying to find a comprehensive list of Mobile phone browsers and CSS support. I currently have a Nokia N70 and as far as I can see it doesn't support CSS at all. But, perhaps with a stylesheet targeting mobile phones it would?! The main reason is, I am trying to decide whether putting the main logo of a site in as an inline image is better than a background, as it would still show up with CSS not supported. But then, how many mobile browsers still don't support CSS whatsoever?! In addition if you are trying to locate which mobile browser from which mobile vendor is coming along, this universal XML File called WURFL might help alot. It contains information about the capabilities and features of many mobile devices and more. http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/ regards, Jens *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: RE: [WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS
Sorry, haven't been around for a few days. Thanks for the replies everyone. Much appreciated and I can now talk about mobile development with more confidence! Cheers 2008/6/25 Darren Lovelock [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael MD Sent: 25 June 2008 11:10 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: RE: [WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS I agree, this is not web standards. However remember they could be following web standards with their CSS version. and I don't think it is just in the UK, it is every where for Vodafone. Which not only defies any effort you made to put the thing together for presentation standards as well. I think it is their solution to controlling the user experience on handset side of things when someone accesses mobile web. Why don't they let the community sought it out? It seems now that if standards are to be effective in the mobile access space, there is now another hump to get an open standard. are they doing this for all sites on all types of phones or only changing it if the phone's browser can't handle the original format/doctype/css/etc The latter is nothing new... Google has been doing it for years for pages linked from mobile search results allowing even ancient phones to browse pages they would not otherwise be able to look at. (ie making them accessible!) -- I believe that they are changing all types of phones. I have a sony ericcson k800i and it modifies the pages on that unless I go in the vodafone account settings and switch it off. It works fine without it! The Novarra proxy is over-riding the handheld stylesheet when I visit my website. This is because my site will deliver the standard stylesheet as it detects Novarra's user agent and not my mobile's. So it affects any site regardless if they are already mobile friendly! Darren Lovelock Munky Online Web Design http://www.munkyonline.co.uk T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Multiple Firefox on Mac
Hi all, Does anyone have a link to a decent reference on running Firefox 2 3 simultaneously on Mac? I can't seem to find a decent one out there. Basically, I've created the new profile, installed Firefox 3 under a different name, but I can't find any information on how you create shortcuts to the programs on the Mac so I can add the noremote stuff. Thanks for any help, Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] @import rule
Hi all, Just working on someone else's website and they are using the @import rule to include their CSS. I usually use the link rel method. I am wondering, is there really any reason not to use @import, be it Accessibility, standards, etc? I don't want to pull in other stylesheets into the one I'm using, so I have no need for the @import. Would appreciate your advice. Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Correct markup of fieldset
Hi all, This is one I've never been sure of; should the submit button be in a seperate fieldset, or should it even be in a fieldset at all because it is not a group of fields; it's a button on it's own. I usually put groups of fields in a fieldset, then have the submit button on it's own outside of the fieldsets. Would like to know what everyone else does?! For example: form fieldset labelSearch/label input type=text value=/ /fieldset input type=submit/ /form As opposed to: form fieldset labelSearch/label input type=text value=/ input type=submit/ /fieldset /form Any thoughts?! Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Correct markup of fieldset
Very good point Jens, I didn't realise my doctype was transitional. Sorted that now and the validation problems are there. Yes, I think you're spot on there, most of the forms I have here are just for search, email signup, etc, so no reason I couldn't have them as part of the same fieldset. Cheers Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jens Brueckmann Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 11:00 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Correct markup of fieldset 2008/8/7 Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This is one I've never been sure of; should the submit button be in a seperate fieldset, or should it even be in a fieldset at all because it is not a group of fields; it's a button on it's own. For example: form fieldset labelSearch/label input type=text value=/ /fieldset input type=submit/ /form As opposed to: form fieldset labelSearch/label input type=text value=/ input type=submit/ /fieldset /form Hi Paul, in strict (X)HTML documents, the FORM element must only contain block elements [1]. Therefore, an INPUT element as a direct child of FORM would be invalid for documents with strict DTDs. Using transitional DTDs, the FORM element may as well contain inline elements such as INPUT. Apart from considering the validity of the markup in question, the complexity of the form could guide one. In your example with a single text input field one might view the submit button to be part of this same fieldset. In more complex forms, e.g. a feedback form which requires input of name, e-mail, and a textarea for free text, the submit button would rather require its own FIELDSET or DIV or P parent element. Cheers, jens [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#edef-FORM -- Jens Brueckmann http://www.yalf.de *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Correct markup of fieldset
Hi Mike, Thanks for the reply. When you say fieldset labelled, you mean the legend, right? I've actually not been using a legend tag in this instance because the design doesn't warrant it. Case by case basis I guess. But yes, both you and Jens are right that it depends on the content. Cheers again, Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 11:30 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Correct markup of fieldset To my mind, one of the most pressing questions that needs to be answered in any particular case is: How is the fieldset labelled? If it specifically says something like 'postcode' or maybe 'contact details', and is one of a collection of fieldsets, then the button should probably be outside. If the form is simpler, the fieldset is un-labelled, generically labelled, or the only fieldset, then there is no advantage to moving the submit button outside of the fieldset. Of course, what would be best would be a quick study of what actual screen-readers speak in these cases - does the closing of a fieldset lead the user to believe that is the end of the form? I see little issue with the semantics of the form, since the button will still be contained within that boundary, even if it goes outside a fieldset. (Validity of XHTML being a slightly separate argument, especially if, like me, you never use it.) Regards, Mike *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Correct markup of fieldset
That was my thinking originally Stuart, which is why I put up the post. The submit button isn't part of a group, so I thought it shouldn't be in a fieldset. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stuart Foulstone Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 4:36 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Correct markup of fieldset -- Stuart Foulstone. On Fri, August 8, 2008 11:29 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To my mind, one of the most pressing questions that needs to be answered in any particular case is: How is the fieldset labelled? If it specifically says something like 'postcode' or maybe 'contact details', and is one of a collection of fieldsets, then the button should probably be outside. If the form is simpler, the fieldset is un-labelled, generically labelled, or the only fieldset, then there is no advantage to moving the submit button outside of the fieldset. Of course, what would be best would be a quick study of what actual screen-readers speak in these cases - does the closing of a fieldset lead the user to believe that is the end of the form? Fieldsets separate related input fields into different sets for ease of comprehension. The closing of a fieldset leads the user to expect another fieldset, a lone input field or a submit button. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Shopping cart - who does what
Hi Joe, Can you recommend a shopping cart system that is easy to set up and use, be it open source or not? Trying to make a decision myself at the moment and would be interested to hear your thoughts. Cheers Paul From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joseph Ortenzi Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 10:57 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Shopping cart - who does what why would it not work as a directory under the main site tree, i.e.: www.domain.com.au/shop/http://www.domain.com.au/shop/. I think developers are keen on a lightweight, simple to use and deploy and template shopping cart system. ZenCart and osCommmerce are terrible to both set up and use, so lose-lose IMHO. Surely a simple shopping cart that is relatively genertic isn't THAT complicated to do? Joe On Aug 13, 2008, at 10:34, Adam Martin wrote: I am a pretty active magento developer and highly recommend it as well.. but it really only suits those clients whose whole site is an ecommerce solution. For example, take a look at a client of mine - julesroc.com.au I am working on a custom solution that allows ecommerce to be a part of a clients website. So the first question I would be asking is what are the needs of the client. A complete ecommerce solution or an ecommerce component within their site. Cheers Adam magento user: tweakmag - Original Message - From: 8bits Mediamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgmailto:wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Shopping cart - who does what I think it would be worth your while to go and check out Magento - http://www.magentocommerce.com/ The makers of this product have done a great job of making it standards compliant, as well as very usable. We're in the process of integrating it into a new project. Regards, Nick 8bits Media On 13 Aug 2008, at 16:39, Lynette Smith wrote: Do the free [shopping carts] (such as ZenCart and OsCommerce) do an adequate job ? My friend populated the shop at the time because he was savvy with Photoshop and could do all the image work himself. But you could as well end up doing that too if your client hasn't that knowledge. That's what I am afraid of. I think you should weigh your time vs. the fee your colleague charges. You might want to learn ZenCart or another eCommerce solution so you can do it in the future. Thanks, Jens - will re-think if a cart is really necessary. Kind regards Lyn *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** == Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.typingthevoid.com http://twitter.com/wheelyweb *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Shopping cart - who does what
Anyone tried these? Someone just recommended them here: http://www.shopify.com/ http://www.freecsscart.com/ http://www.tradingeye.com/department/products/ Cheers -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 11:51 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Shopping cart - who does what I've recently started to use drupal with the ubercart module. It's really easy to set up and it's pretty easy to theme too. drupal on its own is a great cms. Download the whole package from ubercart though http://www.ubercart.org/downloads The deluxe package includes drupal and some extra modules. I would steer clear of zencart - not keen on that software at all. Not very easy to customise. Darren Lovelock Munkyonline.co.uk Quoting Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Joe, Can you recommend a shopping cart system that is easy to set up and use, be it open source or not? Trying to make a decision myself at the moment and would be interested to hear your thoughts. Cheers Paul From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joseph Ortenzi Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 10:57 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Shopping cart - who does what why would it not work as a directory under the main site tree, i.e.: www.domain.com.au/shop/http://www.domain.com.au/shop/. I think developers are keen on a lightweight, simple to use and deploy and template shopping cart system. ZenCart and osCommmerce are terrible to both set up and use, so lose-lose IMHO. Surely a simple shopping cart that is relatively genertic isn't THAT complicated to do? Joe On Aug 13, 2008, at 10:34, Adam Martin wrote: I am a pretty active magento developer and highly recommend it as well.. but it really only suits those clients whose whole site is an ecommerce solution. For example, take a look at a client of mine - julesroc.com.au I am working on a custom solution that allows ecommerce to be a part of a clients website. So the first question I would be asking is what are the needs of the client. A complete ecommerce solution or an ecommerce component within their site. Cheers Adam magento user: tweakmag - Original Message - From: 8bits Mediamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgmailto:wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Shopping cart - who does what I think it would be worth your while to go and check out Magento - http://www.magentocommerce.com/ The makers of this product have done a great job of making it standards compliant, as well as very usable. We're in the process of integrating it into a new project. Regards, Nick 8bits Media On 13 Aug 2008, at 16:39, Lynette Smith wrote: Do the free [shopping carts] (such as ZenCart and OsCommerce) do an adequate job ? My friend populated the shop at the time because he was savvy with Photoshop and could do all the image work himself. But you could as well end up doing that too if your client hasn't that knowledge. That's what I am afraid of. I think you should weigh your time vs. the fee your colleague charges. You might want to learn ZenCart or another eCommerce solution so you can do it in the future. Thanks, Jens - will re-think if a cart is really necessary. Kind regards Lyn *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] rg *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] rg *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] rg *** == Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.typingthevoid.com http://twitter.com/wheelyweb *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
[WSG] Email form builder
Hi all, Does anyone know of a free online resource for building a form that sends an email? One that's aimed at people with limited knowledge of databases. I'm trying to locate one for a friend. He'd like to add his own customisable fields too. Most of the ones I am searching for want you to pay for it. Would really appreciate any help. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Fw: The Great Firewall of Australia
I'm not sure if this will make it to the table, but it is truly worrying. If they went to the extremes outlined though, don't you think that generally the public (not just the web development community) would put up such a stink about it, the government would be forced into taking several steps back. The things is, once they implement something like this, as other laws, it's hard to turn it back and get rid of it, no matter who we vote for next. The people with the strongest voices are these lobbying groups, such as Getup, but most of them represent religious views and those of the older generations, who would easily be scared into thinking that we need internet censorship or else. Last time I checked, Australia was still a democracy, and while *somebody* must have voted for Conroy, we (Australians) still get a say. Even if you voted for him, you don't have too much control over what he does for the 4 years after that. How often do you pop down and visit your local senator for a chat?! I hope the Getup campaign gets enough votes to put this to a halt. Glad we have Getup out there. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dennis Suitters Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 5:37 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Fw: The Great Firewall of Australia Yes, real, definitely. But think about it, the government would already, and in some part already do filter information. If they went to the extremes outlined though, don't you think that generally the public (not just the web development community) would put up such a stink about it, the government would be forced into taking several steps back. Unfortunately though, even though the government is supposed to work in the best interests of it's people, they don't in the long run. Blake wrote: On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Anthony Ziebell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, it's certainly not spam. It's been all over news, whirlpool, everywhere. Yes, it's definitely real. I feel ashamed of being Australian right there. -- Blake Haswell http://www.blakehaswell.com/ | http://blakehaswell.wordpress.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] is there a way to force legend text shows in TWO lines?
Hi all, Just to elaborate on this one, has anyone ever found a way to remove the left indent on the legend element in IE? I don't care if I have to add a SPAN inside the LEGEND element, I just want to make sure the text will be left aligned correctly in all browsers. Please send a link if you know a good one! Cheers -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tee Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 2:43 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] is there a way to force legend text shows in TWO lines? On Nov 26, 2008, at 6:15 PM, Ben Buchanan wrote: 2) I have a column that is 160px wide, but the text in legend is a bit longer, I added a span class, declared a width, but in Firefox, the text still refuse to run in two lines - the rest of the text simply get cut off when the words reaches 160px threshold. I really don't want to add a br /, and it will be more ridiculous to use a p tag for the text so that I can force it display exactly the way my client wanted, then use a negative text-indent to hide the legend. Did you set the span to display: block? Yes, that is the first thing I did. No use. Here is a quick page I just did. http://lotusseedsdesign.com/csstest/legend.html tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Fw: The Great Firewall of Australia
Just to add to this, you can monitor Senator Conroy via email updates and message him through the Getup wesbite. http://www.projectdemocracy.com/senator/senator.php?senatorid=15 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jelina Korhecz Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 12:50 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Fw: The Great Firewall of Australia I agree with Dave--a letter to Senator Conroy is the best approach. The website previously mentioned (http://nocleanfeed.com/) is also a good place to start if you want to take action. I'm extremely concerned about this plan (and have been since I heard about it a months ago) because at first it seemed like everyone in a position of power thought it was a good idea... despite the fact that their filtering trials clearly showed that a mandatory filter wasn't feasible with the technology currently available. Luckily (and I apologise if this has already been mentioned in a previous email), iiNet--an Australian ISP--has signed up to the live testing that is due to begin mid-December. They have said that they will take part in this test to demonstrate to the government how ineffective an ISP level filter is at the present time. You can check out what they have to say about it on their website: http://www.iinet.net.au/about/news/internet_filtering.html Unfortunately, iiNet have received bad press lately because of a lawsuit brought upon them by the AFACT (Australian Federation Against Copyright Theft--see http://www.lawfont.com/2008/11/21/the-case-against-iinet/ for more info). However, some are saying that this case and iiNet's position on the mandatory filtering scheme are connected (which is why the AFACT went after iiNet and not a larger ISP like Telstra Bigpond), but I'll let you make your own mind up about the link between the two. (See http://defendingscoundrels.com/2008/11/iinet-lawsuit-no-coincidence.html for more.) Don't get me wrong--anything that can stop something that is as horrible as child porn I support. But I honestly do not think this has any chance of working. Please do what you can to help stop this filter going ahead. Otherwise I might need to move countries :( My 2c :) On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 10:42 PM, IceKat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldn't have sent this to the group if I'd had even the slightest idea it was spam. Getup.org.au is a genuinely good site. IceKat. Brett Patterson wrote: 1) That, I do believe is a crock of shit! 2) If he does anything like that, he will be dead!!! --and-- 3) Anyone who believes in those ideas are fucked up, stupid, and this I can promise, will NOT make it in this world, dead or alive! 4) Like I said, I think this a crock of shit, and possibly spam. On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 9:56 PM, IceKat [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Usually I'm suspicious of this stuff but I happen to know that Get Up is legit and thought the Aussie members of this list might like to know about this. IceKat. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Thought you might be interested Love Mum - Original Message - http://www.getup.org.au/campaign/SaveTheNet?dc=564,324731,1 Dear Helen, Imagine a government proposing an internet censorship system that went further than any other democracy - one that made the internet up to 87% slower, more expensive, accidentally blocked up to one in 12 legitimate sites, and missed the vast majority of inappropriate content. This is not China, Saudi Arabia or Iran - this is the vision of Senator Stephen Conroy for Australia. *Testing has already begun.* The community must now move to stop this plan. *Click here to save the net:* *www.getup.org.au/campaign/SaveTheNet* http://www.getup.org.au/campaign/SaveTheNet?dc=564,324731,1 The system that Senator Conroy wants is *a mandatory filter of all internet traffic*, with the government of the day able to add any unwanted site to a secret blacklist. Already, the wrangling has begun for the inclusion of material relating to anorexia, euthanasia and gambling. It isn't difficult to see *the scheme is open to abuse*. Even when it comes to preventing child p-rnography, the filter will not prevent peer-to-peer sharing and is very simple to sidestep. *The protection of our children is vitally important* - that's why we can't afford to waste funds on this deeply flawed system. We should be concentrating on solutions that are more effective and won't undermine our digital economy or our
RE: [WSG] Browser / OS Test on website.
Hi Danny, The site looks great, just had a quick flick through. My only suggestion would be to repeat the main navigation at the bottom of each section, so you don't have to go back to the top every time you've read the section. Cheers Paul From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Danny Croft Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 8:03 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Browser / OS Test on website. Hi All, I was wondering if any of you get a spare minute, could you cast your professional eyes over a site I just put online. Its only a small online resume type site. But I'd be interested to see if anyone could find any issues with it or had any suggestions for items that I may have missed. I have done some testing and it passed the online W3C Validation Service for both the markup and CSS. Also if anyone is running an OS other than OSX (v 10.5.6) then I'd be interested in your results on any of the current browers. Like I said, only if you get a minute. Link: http://dannythewebdev.com (almost forgot to add the link) Cheers, Danny *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Clearing a row with floated list li
Hi all,
I'm surprised I can't find the answer to this on the interweb; I haven't had to
do it for a while!
I have a list of about 10 items, all of varying heights (but fixed widths), in
a single ul. I want to clear every third list item and start a new row. Of
course, if they are different heights, the list items will float all over the
place - I'm sure we've all been through this!
I can add a class of clear to every third list item, which is great, but I'm
still having troubles in getting them to behave in IE. Has anyone got a
solution, or seen on online lately?!
Here is the code:
CSS
ul#imageLibraryList li {float:left; width:150px; display:inline; margin:0 20px
15px 0;}
ul#imageLibraryList li.clearLine {clear:both;}
HTML
ul id=imageLibraryList
li class=clearLine
a href=/
img
src=/http://xpdev2.thegoodagency.co.uk/ahec/typo3temp/ahecimagelibrary/d_1297_148_148_75.jpg
alt= /
strongAlder_140x30.jpg/strongbr/
dfjdsflkjlk
/a
/li
li
a href=/
img
src=/http://xpdev2.thegoodagency.co.uk/ahec/typo3temp/ahecimagelibrary/d_1291_148_148_75.jpg
alt= /
strongAlder_140x30_BUMP.jpg/strongbr/
/a
/li
li class=clearLine
a href=/
img
src=/http://xpdev2.thegoodagency.co.uk/ahec/typo3temp/ahecimagelibrary/d_1152_148_148_75.jpg
alt= /
strongAlder_190x30.jpg/strongbr/
/a
/li
li
a href=/
img
src=/http://xpdev2.thegoodagency.co.uk/ahec/typo3temp/ahecimagelibrary/d_1252_148_148_75.jpg
alt= /
strongAlder_190x30_BUMP.jpg/strongbr/
asdsdfdssf
/a
/li
li class=clearLine
a href=/
img
src=/http://xpdev2.thegoodagency.co.uk/ahec/typo3temp/ahecimagelibrary/d_1202_148_148_75.jpg
alt= /
strongAlder_240x30.jpg/strongbr/
/a
/li
li
a href=/
img
src=/http://xpdev2.thegoodagency.co.uk/ahec/typo3temp/ahecimagelibrary/d_1181_148_148_75.jpg
alt= /
strongAlder_240x30_BUMP.jpg/strongbr/
/a
/li
/ul
Please ignore invalid code, I can assure you it's not finished! Just want to
figure out a way to clear the line in all relevant browsers.
Cheers
Paul
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RE: [WSG] Clearing a row with floated list li
Thanks for your replies everyone. I'm not explaining the problem well, so I've created a demo page: http://paulcollinslondon.com/temporary/test.html If you take a look at it in IE7 and Firefox, you should be able to see the difference. The first li is taller than the second one, causing the fourth one to float up higher than the third, (in IE only). If I clear the left, it works in Firefox, but in IE the fourth one still floats up. I know I've solved this a while back and I've seen solutions on the internet, but for the life of me I cannot find them again! Any ideas would be most appreciated. Cheers Paul -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Gunlaug Sørtun Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 5:54 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Clearing a row with floated list li Paul Collins wrote: I can add a class of clear to every third list item, which is great, but I'm still having troubles in getting them to behave in IE. Has anyone got a solution, or seen on online lately?! Didn't check for the actual case, but it's usually safer to declare 'clear: left' than 'clear: both' when trying to clear left-floats in IE. IE has quite a few 'clear' related bugs, and I think this is one of them. regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Clearing a row with floated list li
Thanks very much for that James, I was trying to avoid using the conditional comments - I don't normally use them, but it seems the only way in this case. I've put that in now, so thanks very much for your help. Cheers Paul From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of James Ducker Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 1:12 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Clearing a row with floated list li I fixed it in IE7, though that caused the problem that was occuring in IE7 to occur in Firefox. If you don't mind a conditional, problem solved! See it at: http://studioj.net.au/wsg/pcl.html - James On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Paul Collins p.coll...@twentyfirst.commailto:p.coll...@twentyfirst.com wrote: Thanks for your replies everyone. I'm not explaining the problem well, so I've created a demo page: http://paulcollinslondon.com/temporary/test.html If you take a look at it in IE7 and Firefox, you should be able to see the difference. The first li is taller than the second one, causing the fourth one to float up higher than the third, (in IE only). If I clear the left, it works in Firefox, but in IE the fourth one still floats up. I know I've solved this a while back and I've seen solutions on the internet, but for the life of me I cannot find them again! Any ideas would be most appreciated. Cheers Paul -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.orgmailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.orgmailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Gunlaug Sørtun Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 5:54 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgmailto:wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Clearing a row with floated list li Paul Collins wrote: I can add a class of clear to every third list item, which is great, but I'm still having troubles in getting them to behave in IE. Has anyone got a solution, or seen on online lately?! Didn't check for the actual case, but it's usually safer to declare 'clear: left' than 'clear: both' when trying to clear left-floats in IE. IE has quite a few 'clear' related bugs, and I think this is one of them. regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.orgmailto:memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.orgmailto:memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- James Ducker Web Developer http://www.studioj.net.au *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Implication of empty divs
Isn't CSS about seperating presentation from content? You apply it once in your CSS as opposed to multiple times in your HTML. In actual fact, if you're only developing for IE6+, Firefox 2+, Webkit Browsers, Opera, you only need the overflow:auto; usually. -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Chris F.A. Johnson Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 8:45 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Implication of empty divs On Mon, 9 Feb 2009, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote: On 9/2/09 07:45, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: How can CSS overflow replace div style=clear:both;/div? See http://www.ejeliot.com/blog/59 Thanks, but I find the extra DIV no more objectionable than the hackery and extra CSS described in that article. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster http://woodbine-gerrard.com === Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Test in Outlook 2007
Hi all, Just wondering, has anyone ever figured out a way of testing Outlook 2007 when you don't have it installed? Wondering if there is some kind of online software that emulates it perhaps? Campaign Monitor offers testing, but it costs a fiver each time you want to check. Would appreciate any help. Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] The head of the document
Hi all, I'm just curious to know what other people do these days with the header of their document? What is best practice for: - Good search engine rankings - Best charset for English text (utf-8, right?) - Do we need robots - all anymore? - Any Accessibility issues? (Can't think of any) - Does anyone bother with descriptions, keywords anymore? - Dublin Core metadata, is that a forgotten fad?! I'll show you an example of how I setup a standard page, please anyone offer what they think is best practice, or perhaps send any useful links: !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd; html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; xmlns:v=urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml xml:lang=en lang=en head meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=utf-8/ meta http-equiv=Content-Language content=en-us/ titleTITLE/title meta name=ROBOTS content=ALL/ meta http-equiv=imagetoolbar content=no/ meta name=MSSmartTagsPreventParsing content=true/ link rel=stylesheet href=STYLESHEET type=text/css media=all/ /head Cheers *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
