RE: [WSG] An efficient CSS architecture
Jens, I worked up something for www.iasbet.com which was reasonably robust. This was before we adopted the Yahoo YUI for our in-house development. I'd suggest you create separate CSS files and workflows for a creative workgroup and a development workgroup (content.css and controls.css) as both departments will want to release unique controls and content elements that won't be able to pick up the existing styles. This will relieve pressure on the framework CSS files. I'd suggest that CSS be added to a project and validated before going out, and use ID to isolate areas where you can. You should be able to clean out the content.css and controls.css files periodically. The multiple stylesheets are a concern, but your base framework can be combined and compressed and served from somewhere else as others have suggested. You can do much the same for the javascript too. Cheers Paul Paul Minty Director mintleaf studio We design create stylish websites Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne T. 03 9662 9344 F. 03 9662 9255 M. 0418 307 475 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mintleafstudio.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jens-Uwe Korff Sent: Thursday, 24 April 2008 4:31 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] An efficient CSS architecture Importance: Low Hi all, I'm currently in the lucky position to be able to design a CSS architecture from scratch. I was thinking of creating a layered approach where I have a CSS layer for - the CSS reset - the site layout (structural parts, ie. columns, rows, header, footer) - the site's elements (boxes which can be reused across pages; a box might contain images, heading, paragraphs) - the site's skin (colours, sprites etc.) I'd like to know if you have been through this thought process and if you have proven concepts that you would like to share. (You can email me offline too, but we've got a long weekend here so I'll contact you Monday.) Thank you! Cheers, Jens The information contained in this e-mail message and any accompanying files is or may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, dissemination, reliance, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail or any attached files is unauthorised. This e-mail is subject to copyright. No part of it should be reproduced, adapted or communicated without the written consent of the copyright owner. If you have received this e-mail in error please advise the sender immediately by return e-mail or telephone and delete all copies. Fairfax does not guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in this e-mail or attached files. Internet communications are not secure, therefore Fairfax does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message or attached files. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] semantic list with explanations
Tim, a definition list is called for. You can set it to be numbered in the CSS. You could also use headings and paragraphs (semantically it is the same as we have a set of name-value pairs). You could also use a two column table (name-value pairs). cheers Paul Paul MInty Director mintleaf studio We design create stylish websites Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne T. 03 9662 9344 F. 03 9662 9255 M. 0418 307 475 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mintleafstudio.com.au http://www.mintleafstudio.com.au/ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim MacKay Sent: Wednesday, 9 January 2008 3:01 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] semantic list with explanations Hello all, Just looking for a little help. I'm creating a sort of 'point form' list that goes a bit like this: 1. Pursuit of customer satisfaction We promise to pursue customer satisfaction as our main point of customer focus...blah blah blah 2. Pursuit of customer loyalty We promise to pursue customer loyalty as our secondary point of customer focus...blah blah blah What is the best way to semantically mark this up? My first guess would be an ordered list but the definitions underneath don't really allow for it. A definition list doesn't seem very appropriate either because of the wordiness of the explanations; to me a true definition list would only be a few words. Any thoughts? Thanks, Tim *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Preventing copying of text from web page.
Nick, in general, the web is designed to allow people to copy and paste freely. Web Standards are, by and large, designed to support the maximum interchange of information. So, in my opinion, you can't do this using web standards. That said: you could output the results into an XML file off the web root, then consume and display it into a Flash file (or build the entire interface as a Flash client). In that way you can render the text as an image or non-copyable text fairly easily. Or, you could put the output into PDF format, with copying prevented. Or, you could render it as an image on the server (sort of a poor man's digital rights management). You may not be able to read it properly though. Applying a transparent image will not be very effective as the data can be exposed by either looking at the HTML source or by turning off images using the browser. cheers Paul Paul Minty Director mintleaf studio We design create stylish websites Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne T. 03 9662 9344 F. 03 9662 9255 M. 0418 307 475 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mintleafstudio.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Roper Sent: Friday, 21 December 2007 10:00 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Preventing copying of text from web page. Hi, We have been asked by a client whether it is possible to any extent to prevent/deter users from copying content from a particular web page. The page will comprise two main areas: 1) Selection options in the form of select lists, check boxes etc. 2) Once the criteria have been selected then a 'Search' button will initiate a script that will query the database and display resulting text records in tabular format. The requirement is that the the user should be able to view the resulting output, but not to be able to copy/paste to other applications. Is this possible to achieve in a way that is standards-compliant - or indeed in any way at all? One suggestion has been to apply a transparent image over the results table - but not sure if this could be done with CSS etc? If this is considered off-topic then I would welcome suggestions for more appropriate forums. Many thanks in anticipation. Regards, -- Nick Roper partner logical elements *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] multilingual website advice
Andrew, I don't know about cultural sensitivities; best that you start talking to Islamic people and your specific audience as early as possible! I've got a couple of Islamic friends and they've never mentioned any deep-seated resentment of the internet, except a general awareness of how american and anglo it can be. I've worked with Islamic people on some simple community work, and found a huge range of cultural preferences concerning formality of dress and speech, etc. I wouldn't assume anything about cultural preferences without asking first. I can say that creating a controlled vocabularly is important: you'll need to determine the precise mapping between various labels and instructions before you can design and develop a navigation structure and labels on controls etc. Whilst you can source content from different database tables specific to the language, sourcing the labels for controls and navigation may come from a different part of the application. You'll also have to closely control the character encoding and language for both browser display and for search engines. In my experience, multilingual websites involve: sub-directories for images and css for different languages, different records for langauge specific content, look-up tables for cross-language searching, language and geo-targeting for active detection of language preference, a source for navigation and control labels, a multi-lingual data source for error messages, page and character encoding, different time and date formats and the possibility that you have a user from one language group accessing from a computer that appears to be from another language group (so, user control of language and geo-targeting configuration). Cheers Paul Paul Minty Director mintleaf studio We design create stylish websites Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne T. 03 9662 9344 F. 03 9662 9255 M. 0418 307 475 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mintleafstudio.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Harris Sent: Friday, 2 November 2007 10:46 AM To: WSG Subject: [WSG] multilingual website advice Hi all, I've been asked to work on a multilingual website - including rtl scripts. I've done bits and pieces before, but always other languages in predominantly english websites. Although I see the problems as mainly technical, I'm getting vibes from others in the team about some mysterious 'cultural sensitivities' that we'll have to consider as the audience in this case includes the Islamic community. Perhaps foolishly, I had assumed that a sensibly designed website, free of pr0n ads and political cartoons, would be acceptable in most cultures, but maybe I'm just naive. I'm asking for any gems of wisdom - links or first hand advice, mostly technical, but anything that deals with the pitfalls in building arabic websites would be great. (I should point out the obvious one, we will be engaging native speakers and expert editors - not simply relying on babelfish ;-) Thanks in advance. -- Andrew Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.woowoowoo.com ~~~ * ~~~ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids
Maarten, We've done a few, often with a couple of mods. www.vssmarthomes.com.au www.nyp.com.au (I think) www.wwwatertrucks.com The smaller the job, the more likely we are to use the YUI Grids as they are. Cheers Paul Paul Minty Director mintleaf studio We design create stylish websites Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne T. 03 9662 9344 F. 03 9662 9255 M. 0418 307 475 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mintleafstudio.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Maarten Stolte Sent: Wednesday, 31 October 2007 7:00 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids Hi, We've been using the YUI for a while. We wrote our own variant to support the proportions that our Art Director likes to use, which include the Golden Mean. Can you show any examples of sites using it? I'm wanting to show our front end designer some examples. thanks, Maarten *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids
WSG, 'Universal Principles of Design' states that the Golden Ration is also known as: golden mean; golden number; golden section, golden proportion, divine proportion and sectio aurea. It is an anceint (dating back to the classical greeks) principle of geometry. It may be an early attempt to codify a cognitive phenomenon or a simple tradition. The Fibonacci Sequence can converge to a golden mean. The ratio is 0.618. For a comprehensive discussion of proportions that include the golden mean, see 'Geometry of Design - Studies in Proportion and Composition' by Kimberly Elam (2001). This also presents a case that the general population prefers designs based on some geometric proportions. Another reference is: 'Grids, the structure of graphic design' by Andre Jute (1996). The YUI Grids patterns do not have any great focus on a geometrical proportion. Our Art Director decided that we would have a strong emphasis on classic proportions as part of our house style. Therefore we modified the YUI grids CSS files to change the default proportions to the ones that our Art Director wants to use on a regular basis. This improves our quality and speed on most jobs. It also helps wire-framing as we use a particular proportion to give consistency and attractiveness to our wire-frames. Cheers Paul Paul Minty Director mintleaf studio We design create stylish websites Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne T. 03 9662 9344 F. 03 9662 9255 M. 0418 307 475 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mintleafstudio.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Laakso Sent: Thursday, 1 November 2007 12:01 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids James Jeffery wrote: Hmmm interesting i might take a look at it. I would love to know more about YUI Grids and the 'Golden Mean'. James FWIW, the Golden Mean is a matter of philosophy. I believe the search string you seek is Golden Ratio. Best, ~dL -- http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids
WSGers, We've been using the YUI for a while. We wrote our own variant to support the proportions that our Art Director likes to use, which include the Golden Mean. It's boosted our front end development speed and means we can start getting consitent layout hapenning when we develop HTML prototypes as well. It also gives us a head start when we are browser testing. It was pretty easy to re-write the CSS to support the proportional grids that we want to use. Remember that constraining widths is easy enough, but constraining heights is a real pain if you want the user to be able to resize text. Cheers Paul Paul Minty Director mintleaf studio We design create stylish websites Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne T. 03 9662 9344 F. 03 9662 9255 M. 0418 307 475 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mintleafstudio.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Bennett Sent: Wednesday, 31 October 2007 11:30 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids You mean the 'Golden Mean'? Not that I can see - grids offers a variety of column widths and nesting. You do a large variety of things with it and column widths don't appear to be golden mean base, but based on Yahoo's enormous experience . I am slowly learning to create aesthetically pleasing web designs, although i would never use the Yahoo framework As someone who is getting ready to implement grids for a large government project, may I ask why not? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] introducing a prompt to download or open a pdf
Sent: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 4:16 PM To: web standards group Subject: [WSG] introducing a prompt to download or open a pdf i know that this has come up before, but would someone point me to best practices to introduce aprompt to open or download a pdf or any file for that matter? dwain Dwain, Funnily enough I'm working on a design pattern for this, as it doesn't seem to be documented very well in the usual design pattern collections. I'd recommend displaying with a PDF icon, the text 'PDF' and a file size (in Kb or Mb). I suggest setting the target to a new window, then the user can righ click to save. If you want to go further, I'd suggest having two links labelled 'open' and 'save'. You could put in a pop-up with the option; but I think that this would break the expected behaviour more. You could also detect the connection speed and suggest a download time; but this may not give you much ROI. It's always good to have an HTML version of the content; but you've probably already thought of that. I'd be keen to know other people's thoughts; especially if you know of any design patterns for this. Cheers Paul Paul Minty Director mintleaf studio We design create stylish websites Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne T. 03 9662 9344 F. 03 9662 9255 M. 0418 307 475 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mintleafstudio.com.au *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] will Eric Meyers CSS SCULPTOR put me out of job?
Tee, My understanding is that the tools being rolled out now are intended to streamline the production of basic layouts. We've used the Yahoo UI library to do that for a while; simple to be competitive on pricing. I know the bigger studios spend a lot of time developing pixel-perfect designs, usually on an elastic layout. We don't often attract the projects and budgets that would justify that level of quality. There has been a couple of years where quite basic page layouts have needed a lot of hours from experienced CSS developers to produce - I reckon those years are over and advanced CSS skills won't be used as often in smaller production teams. There will continue to be a place for highly skilled and experienced front-end developers in the bigger studios. This is a shift in the economics of website production; so yeah, have another think about career path. Remember, these days any designer can create a complex PDF file that can printed straight away - no need for the old technical skills to do colour separations and prepare printing plates! Complex and repetitive work will always be under pressure from engineering solutions. Fashionable design will always be under pressure from younger and cooler designers. I'm gonna get shares in Adobe and RMIT! Cheers Paul Paul Minty Director mintleaf studio We design create stylish websites Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne T. 03 9662 9344 F. 03 9662 9255 M. 0418 307 475 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mintleafstudio.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tee G. Peng Sent: Tuesday, 28 August 2007 10:16 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] will Eric Meyers CSS SCULPTOR put me out of job? Please don't be misguided by the subject :) http://www.webassist.com/professional/products/productdetails.asp? PID=135RID=930 I am just curious, what you do guys think of the dreamweaver extension like this one and the PVll CSS layout Magic, and the Google Blueprint ? Can they take over the carefully crafted CSS and structural markup you deliver to your clients? There first one even take care of IE browsers. I notice fewer people ask me to do CSS and XHTML templates lately :) tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Using XLST to define microformats
Hi all, my first post, so: I'm Paul Minty, I do the IA, project management, some front-end development and even a little copywriting for a small web design and development studio in Melbourne. Does anyone know of an effort to define micro-formats using an XML name space and an XLST? I think that approach would be a great way to achieve some semantic mark-up using the existing XHTML namespace. It's how I prefer to process large amounts of data when we produce a larger web-site and I think it is a technique that could be applied in a more general way. thanks Paul Paul Minty Director mintleaf studio We design create stylish websites Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne T. 03 9662 9344 F. 03 9662 9255 M. 0418 307 475 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mintleafstudio.com.au *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Standards friendly 'page tagging' web stats
Paul, We use Google Analytics in-house and it is a good addition to log file analysis. 'Mint' is another tagging-based stats package that should be OK on a standards-based website http://haveamint.com/ You do get a lot more info on browsers and viewport size throygh the tagging stats approach. Also, Google tells you a lot about pathways through the website that most log-analysis stats packages would charge you a lot of money for. Cheers Paul Paul Minty Director mintleaf studio We design create stylish websites Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne T. 03 9662 9344 F. 03 9662 9255 M. 0418 307 475 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mintleafstudio.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Hempsall Sent: Monday, 27 August 2007 11:16 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Standards friendly 'page tagging' web stats I'm looking for a Javascript page-tagging solution, that is unobtrusive (keeping in line with our current progressive enhancement paradigm), standards compliant, reliable/error free (ie. Supported across multiple browsers). Paul Hempsall Web Developer *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Using XLST to define microformats
Jason, good feedback. For that kind of case I would define an XML namespace that is specific for your project; process the client's data according to that model; then transform the XML namespace into XHTML during the front-end development and content production phase of the project. I agree with you that I haven't come across a lot of mico-formats that are suitable for a specific project, unless it is an address, an event, a news article or a product. Breton has given me some good sources to chase up from the micro-format world. thanks Paul Paul Minty Director mintleaf studio We design create stylish websites Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne T. 03 9662 9344 F. 03 9662 9255 M. 0418 307 475 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mintleafstudio.com.au From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Grant Sent: Monday, 27 August 2007 11:01 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Using XLST to define microformats Hi Paul, Good question. I am working currently on tesco.com and this is one of the ongoing debates we have, inside W3C as well, as XSLT is used all over the place and we are trying to achieve maximum accessibility and so on. I am not aware that something 'standardised' exists on this matter as yet, and would be surprised if it did yet, as the current state of play on this matter seems to be very non-standardised. Only the other day I wanted to do an events listing module and fried my brain in the various (mostly kind of useless) microformats and feed formats for events information (I came to conclusion that using something of my own is probably the best at this point, but obviously stops short of advantages of using microformats and standards, etc.). So if you come across something at least semi-standardised on this matter, please do message us if you are able to do so. It would be very much appreciated. Kind regards, Jason www.flexewebs.com On 8/27/07, Paul Minty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, my first post, so: I'm Paul Minty, I do the IA, project management, some front-end development and even a little copywriting for a small web design and development studio in Melbourne. Does anyone know of an effort to define micro-formats using an XML name space and an XLST? I think that approach would be a great way to achieve some semantic mark-up using the existing XHTML namespace. It's how I prefer to process large amounts of data when we produce a larger web-site and I think it is a technique that could be applied in a more general way. thanks Paul Paul Minty Director mint leaf studio We design create stylish websites Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne T. 03 9662 9344 F. 03 9662 9255 M. 0418 307 475 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mintleafstudio.com.au *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
