Re: [WSG] What do you think about slicing images?

2004-11-15 Thread Thierry Koblentz





  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Marilyn 
  Langfeld 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 9:19 
  AM
  Subject: [WSG] What do you think about 
  slicing images?
  
  I haven't seen any discussions about slicing images, with regards to web 
  standards. I expect slicing is discouraged, since it is table-based. 
  
  It doesn't have to. The slices can be put 
  together without the use of a table. Simple BR tags are enough for the 
  construct.
  
  Thierry ---Pure CSS Navigation 
  Menu | Scalable Tabshttp://www.kaosweaver.com/extensions/details.php?id=76 
  


Re: [WSG] Kaosweaver Complete CSS Menu - accessible or not?

2005-02-01 Thread Thierry Koblentz
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 http://www.kaosweaver.com/extensions/details.php?id=76

 Hi I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this extension
 and whether it is fully accessible etc as it looks like it could be
 quite a time saver.

Hi Helen,
I'm biased on this, but I'd like to point out what I think is the best
feature of this menu re: accessibility.
This CSS menu allows the use of tabs images as background-images for the
list items, so it is possible to increase or decrease text-size and have the
Tabs expand or contract to always fit the size of the navigation links.

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com | CSS-P Templates compatible NN4.7

-
| CSS Popups | CSS Tabs | CSS Dropdown Menus | Articles and Tutorials |

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Re: [WSG] List Indenting

2005-02-04 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Paul wrote:
 Just did, on the UL class as well as the li class, no luck

Hi Paul,
The problem lies in your bluebox container. *Remove* the left declaration
and use margin-left instead, that should fix it.

Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] 3 cols width any column longest and no div clear

2005-03-16 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Gianfranco Todini wrote:
 And it doesn't use any hacks as well...

What's this?
* html #container {display:inline-block;}

And this?
* html #left {width:197px;}

:-)

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] NS4 spacing borders

2005-03-19 Thread Thierry Koblentz
 True, but management should make educated decision and
 that means listening to developers.

But a developer who doesn't know how to design for NN4 would be biased, no?

IMHO, supporting NN4 is a call for:
- bad semantic,
- structural hacks,
- extra hours spent on the project.

Out of these three points, I'd say only the last one would make sense for a
client   :-)

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] NS4 spacing borders

2005-03-19 Thread Thierry Koblentz
 but a useful one to know for sure.

Since we're talking about NN4...
Another interesting thing about this browser is the way it handles the
noscript tag. In NN4, a simple noscript tags pair can break apart a whole
CSS layout; at other times, it can be a great way to clear floats. Once a
designer knows about these things (as using a clear.gif to set backgrounds
color) it becomes much easier to support this browser.

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] you've been framed!

2005-03-24 Thread Thierry Koblentz
designer wrote:
 OK, I know about the pitfalls, but the bookmarking thing is easy to
 get over - just add 2 short lines of javascript from
 www.CodeLifter.com :

 if (parent.location.href == self.location.href){
 window.location.href = 'whateverframeset.html' }

I don't think this has to do with bookmarking; it is more about calling the
default frames when a naked page loads in the UA.
And IMO it is better to use the replace() method in this case to avoid
messing with the user browser's back button.

 However, what I want to know is, which browsers don't support frames?
 And should I be
 bothered?

MSIE 2 (Win  Mac), AOL 1.0  2.7 (Mac), AOL 1.0 Win
Note that in some browsers (Opera for example) frames can be turned off.

You have the noframes tag to help you deal with frame-challenged UAs

I've written an article about frames, you may find something useful in
there:
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/frames/default.asp

HTH,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] position:absolute in IE

2005-04-04 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
 A simple float-design with a little bit of AP, can be as fluid as one
 may like it. How about 3-column floats?
 http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_1.html

 Basically it is this:
 http://www.alistapart.com/articles/negativemargins/

This technique uses negative margins too, but does not require structural
hacks for clearing, and I believe it has better browsers support:
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/challenge/3cols/

HTH,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] position:absolute in IE

2005-04-05 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
 Yes, that's another variant that'll work just fine. I made one based on
 the same idea back in may/june 2004, but Gecko-browsers wasn't
 clearing too well then:
 http://www.gunlaug.no/homesite/main_7_b.html

Hi Georg,
You're floating the right column and you have a few structural hacks for
clearing in there.
Did you try without floating it? I had much better result that way. Then,
the *only* browser that needs a clearing element for the left column seems
to be NN6.

 Browser-support shouldn't be a problem with either, as long as the old
 browsers are left out.

The solution I've posted works in NN4 :-)

Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] How exactly can I get pixel perfect in IE?

2005-04-05 Thread Thierry Koblentz
tee wrote:
 Hi, Been wanting to find a solution  but it's sort of something not
 critical until I came up with this menu
 
 http://www.lotusseeds.com/tryagain_michael.html
 Any idea?

In the markup, do not leave whitespace between the list items

HTH,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] position:absolute in IE

2005-04-05 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
 reached by different means. I don't have a personal preference, so I
 look into all solutions, and pick and choose from ideas and
 inspiration when/as needed. Guess that's how it should work across
 the web.

The same here. There is a lot of good stuff out there, very inspirational...

 Nice, but if any of my solutions works in NN4, then it may only be
 because I've forgotten to hide my styles from it. I usually stop well
 short of supporting old browsers, simply because I don't want to.

I like supporting NN4, I know it doesn't make much sense (structural hacks
and bad semantic), but I really enjoy the challenge ;-)

 Now I only have to list some of my structural navigation and clean
 up a bit, since the styles are already in place. Next stage is to cut
 the amount of styles in half, without loosing anything. After that --
 nobody knows.

:-)

 CSS is fun :-)

A lot of fun...

FWIW: I thought it would be more appropriate to send you this email
off-list, but it bounced...

Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] IE problem

2005-04-11 Thread Thierry Koblentz
 I've seen hacks over the net and used one to define sizes in IE...but
 this problem is driving me crazy...

Hi Javier,
As Alan said, you should use display:inline on every float that include
margins, but I believe you need more than that to fix your problem. Try
this:
#contizq {
display:inline;
width:170px !important;
...
...
}

HTH,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] more float problems

2005-04-11 Thread Thierry Koblentz
 Its the input buttons that are floated and overlapping causing the
 .sectionfooter| to shove over.

Try :
div.sectionfooter {clear:left}

Also make sure you set a background-color for body, because white is not the
color by default ;-)

HTH,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] CSS issues: Opera's absolute positioning

2005-04-11 Thread Thierry Koblentz
 would anybody be able to suggest a simple fix to
 get the advanced search/preferences list to align properly
 next to the input on my frugal google experiment
 http://www.splintered.co.uk/experiments/74/ ?

You could try to move the UL just before the text box and then use *float*
rather than an AP div...

HTH,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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[WSG] Multiple comments to filter non Gecko-based browsers

2005-04-13 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Hi,
I'm trying to use nested comments as a filter for non gecko-based
browsers.
This is my markup:

!--
style type=text/css
some rules here
/style
!--

Gecko-based browsers get it right; they see the nested comment and ignore
the inner block.
But the Validator gives me a warning about this (multiple comments in
comment declaration).
The thing that bothers me is that WDG [1] says that !-- hello-- is a
legal comment, but my guess is that the Validator would choke on this too.
Isn't confusing?

[1] http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/wilbur/misc/comment.html

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Multiple comments to filter non Gecko-based browsers

2005-04-13 Thread Thierry Koblentz
 I guess the first question would be.. what are you trying to do and is
 their another solution?
 Not sure what you mean by filter for non Gecko browsers?

Hi James,
I found out that non Gecko-based browsers see the inner block (between the
comments), so I can use this markup to feed them without styling elements in
FF, etc. Honnestly, I didn't find a real need for that yet, but I'm
frustrated with the info I found so far re: multiple comments. It's very
inconsistent and I hoped that one of you guys could give me a definitive
answer on this.

Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility

2005-04-13 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Sarah Peeke (XERT) wrote:
 Many sites I have seen *retain this link's visibility* despite it
 being intended (AFAIK) primarily 
 for screen readers.

It also helps people who use tabbing navigation.

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com |
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Re: [WSG] Accessible dropdown menus

2005-04-14 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Roger Johansson wrote:
 * Semantic markup (i.e. nested unordered lists)
 * Graceful degradation when support for CSS and/or JavaScript is
 missing
 * Keyboard navigable, preferrably with optionally expandable menus.
 * Top level menu items should be real links
 * Menus drop down on hover (obviously)

Hi Roger,
I have something that (I believe) fits #1, #2, #3 (not all browsers though),
#4 and #5

http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/dropdown/demo.asp

HTH,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Disjointed Rollovers in css

2005-04-19 Thread Thierry Koblentz
jackie reid wrote:
 is there a tutorial out there that anyone has seen or used that may
 help me achieve this. 

Hi Jackie,
This may help you:
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/css%20pop%20ups/

HTH,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] Suggestions for compliant drop down menus...

2005-04-20 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Lee Jorgensen wrote:
 http://alistapart.com/articles/hybrid/

I didn't know about that one, but I believe it is the worst article ever
published by ALA.
The author says:
What if we could have one clean, well-structured menu which would combine
the dynamism and code-ease of dropdown menus and do away with their main
problems (not to mention degrade beautifully)?
This technique is a bulletproof way to ensure browser compatibility and to
maintain usability

In fact, the technique has many issues:
- poor browser support,
- text is not scalable,
- tabbing navigation is not possible,
- list items are not accessible in IE if JS is disabled.

I think ALA should have published this solution instead ;-)
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/dropdown/demo.asp

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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[WSG] Heads up re: skipNav and other jump links

2005-04-21 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Hi all,
I've noticed that many of you are using a container ID as a named anchor
(to create a skip nav for example), but I'm not sure if you're all aware
that this creates an accessibility issue: the user can jump to the location,
but is unable to tab past it.

Also, I've found that most of the techniques work when it comes to the
jumping part, but making sure tabbing navigation is not disturbed is not
that simple.
For example it appears that a name=content/a is not bullet proof while
a href=# name=content/a is.
I've also noticed that if one uses display:none to style a named anchor,
MSIE can't find its location (FF seems to be OK with it).
One last thing: for the UA, case is not an issue, so a jump link (#content)
would work, but tabbing navigation would fail if the anchor named content
is contained in a DIV named CONTENT.

Anybody knows why empty anchors are not 100% reliable when it comes to
tabbing navigation? I just can't figure it out...

Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Heads up re: skipNav and other jump links

2005-04-21 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Drake, Ted C.  wrote:
 I've been replacing my a name=deepcontent/a with h3
 id=deepcontent Or something similar.
 Isn't that the most appropriate way of going?

Hi Ted,
Try the 2 methods and you'll see how the latter solution disturbs tabbing
navigation.
Using the former allows UAs to jump to that location, but once there, the
user cannot tab *from there*. On her next tab, she is brought back to where
she comes from, or even farther up.

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: Betr.: [WSG] Window Pop-ups

2005-04-26 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Gerard Copinga wrote:
 Hello,
 a href=help.htm target=_blank
 onClick=javascript:openNewWindow(this.href); return false;
 title=opens in new windowHelp/a

As a side note: using _blank as the value of the target attribute is not a
good idea unless the designer wants a *new* window to open each time the
event is triggered. To make sure the link(s) open(s) in the *same* window,
the best is to use ThisCanBeAnyName for value.

HTH,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: Betr.: [WSG] Window Pop-ups

2005-04-26 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Kornel Lesinski wrote:
 And what about what _user_ wants?
 For me there is nothing more annoying that page with links to
 screenshots or faq entries that all stubbornly open in the same
 window and don't let me see more than one of them at once.

IMHO, this technique gives some control to the user since it is still
possible for her to open such links in new windows (i.e. Right-click  Open
Link in New Window (or Tab)).
Using _blank leaves her with no choice.

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: Betr.: [WSG] Window Pop-ups

2005-04-26 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
 Even if a link *has* _blank, you can use the right click option.

I know that ;-)
My point is that setting the target attribute's value to WhatEverName
gives the user a *choice*.
It allows him to either open these links in new windows or in the *original
new one*. With _blank, each link clicked would create a new window, and
AFAIK, there is no right-click option to change this behavior.

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Voice family box model hack

2005-04-27 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Stevio wrote:
 Can someone explain how the following works?

Hi Stephen,
You may want to read this:
http://tantek.com/CSS/Examples/boxmodelhack.html

Then this:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/dhtml/overview/ccomment_ovw.asp

Unless I'm missing something, the latter is a simpler and - IMHO - cleaner
solution to fix MSIE.

HTH,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Two separate CSS issues

2005-04-28 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Stevio wrote:
 Anyone know why a floated div is hidden in IE6?

Try position:relative on #sidebar, that should fix it

To set padding and margin to 0 value for all the elements, try * instead
of  #, like this:
* {margin:0;padding:0}


HTH,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Voice family box model hack

2005-04-28 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Michael Wilson wrote:
 If I have to use a box model hack (BMH), rather than a conditional
 comment, I prefer the following [01]:
 * html foo { /* Selector recognized by IE only */
  height: 100%; /* Value for IE5.x/Win and IE6.x/Win QM */
  hei\ght: auto; /* Value for IE6/Win */
 }

I believe it is worth mentionning that IE5 Mac would also apply that second
declaration.

 Conditional comments are a pretty well know and documented technique,

You may find this useful:
http://www.positioniseverything.net/articles/multiIE.html

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Combination of CSS menu with dhtm/javascript menu button?

2005-05-02 Thread Thierry Koblentz
tee wrote:
 Seven, but I really prefer to stay with css menu as it delivers
 cleaner code. I was thinking perhaps I can insert one dhtml menu in

Son of suckerfish dropdowns:
http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/

I'm a bit biased about this one:
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/dropdown/demo.asp

HTH,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] Combination of CSS menu with dhtm/javascript menu button?

2005-05-02 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Michael Wilson wrote:
 It works in NN6 Win, but I'm not sure about NN on Mac; that fix link I
 posted earlier has a listing of tested browsers.

Michael,
I've tested this page [1] in NN v6.2.3 on XPPro and it does not work. 

Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

[1] http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/example/bones1.html
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Re: [WSG] Combination of CSS menu with dhtm/javascript menu button?

2005-05-03 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Michael Wilson wrote:
 This [01], however, does work in NN v6.2.3 on XPPro. According to the

Hi,
I don't think it works as intented. The nested ULs appear, but NN6 doesn't
paint any background, so it is not legible.
Re: the Mac fix. This fix is for MSIE 5.2 (OSX), it doesn't fix 5.0 (OS9)
and IMO, this is the IE version mostly used by Mac users.
Also, the script triggers JS errors in Opera 6.05 so the ULs do not popup,
but the most important is that it makes the top level list items *not*
accessible.

 As I said previously, if you want 100% coverage, you will need to get
 into allot more JavaScript or you can simply link the top level
 navigation items to a shortened table of contents. In my view, this is
 the cleanest method as it doesn't require the added script and it's
 accessible by everything that can follow a link.

As I said previously, I'm biased toward this method [1], but so far it seems
to be the cleanest one without allot more JavaScript :-)

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

[1] http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/dropdown/demo.asp
(I've now added a list of browsers I have tested the technique with)

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Re: [WSG] liquid 3-column layout - my head is spinning

2005-05-04 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Drake, Ted C.  wrote:
 I've looked at about 3 dozen web sites this morning discussing the
 best three column layout and it is getting really confusing. So many
 of them are variations of each other and there are few dates on the
 pages to know what is new and better.

Hi Ted,
I don't know if this one [1] is better, but it is fairly new...

In the footer, there is a list of browsers in which I've tested the page
And there is a bit more complex design page too [2]

[1] http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/challenge/3cols/default.asp
[2] http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/challenge/

HTH,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] update-- liquid 3-column layout - my head is spinning

2005-05-04 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Drake, Ted C.  wrote:
 I've got a question. You mention the IE
 painting bug, which is very similar to the issue that I am having.

Hi Ted,
I think I mentionned this bug re: the ALA demo page. 
Did you notice background painting problems with my pages?

 However, I was able to solve the problem, knock on wood, by removing
 the background color of the sub divs. I had a combination of

You still have weird things going on in the Problem Area.
Try this:
click in the lower right corner (below turn dark on click)
do not release the mouse's button
drag the pointer diagonaly toward the top left corner of that DIV
the whole container got painted over.

I believe it is the left negative margin that triggers this bug. 
You can try the following to fix the different problems in IE:
#orgintranets {display:inline}
#orgintranets,#orgintranets a:hover {zoom: 1}
#menu a {margin-left:1px !important;border:1px solid blue}
#menu a:active {background:#e6e6c1}
.cleanlist a:active {background:#fff}

 What has been your experience with the background painting bug?

Painful ;-)

HTH,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] liquid 3-column layout - my head is spinning

2005-05-04 Thread Thierry Koblentz
David Laakso wrote:
 Just in case you change your mind about source order:
 http://www.alistapart.com/articles/negativemargins/

FYI:
The ALA's article doesn't mention a few things:
- links inside the right column appear not to be clickable in Opera 6,
- there are background painting problems in IE,
- there is one structural hack missing from the markup to help NN6 clear the
left column.

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] liquid 3-column layout - my head is spinning

2005-05-04 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
 Just some quick questions -- and please don't misunderstand me here.
 :-)

NP ;-)

 - How many of the old browser-versions should be allowed to influence
 our choice of design-methods?
 - Aren't there enough bugs and flaws in the new browser-versions?

I see your point, but when it comes to choose between different solutions, I
find info re: browser compatibility very valuable.

Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] font list?

2005-05-05 Thread Thierry Koblentz
john wrote:
 No matter how hard I try to explain, one of my clients just cannot
 understand that fonts are taken from the user's computer when they
 view the page.  Basically, he can't shake the distinctions between
 print design and web design.

You may want to look into sIFR:
http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/mx/dreamweaver/articles/sifr_demo.html

Not for a whole document, but atleast for the headings.

HTH,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] Can fonts be fixed in firefox?

2005-05-09 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] wrote:
 font-size? Or do I have to go and use images instead? In which case I
 would have to use Javascript for the Rollover, which really goes too
 far!

To go with CSS rather than Javascript, you can use a transparent image and
swap its background.

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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[WSG] Site check please - eCommerce

2005-05-09 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Hi all,
I have a WAI-AAA icon at the bottom of the pages and I'd like to know if I
can leave it there or if I have a few more things to work on
:-)

I'm using label with all my input elements, but the one for the search
form at the top at the page. Does using the title attribute make it
accessible enough or do I must use label?

Also, I've put skip table links inside caption/caption (for people who
are not using pointing devices), but they are ignored by FF.
How come? Try to tab through the links on the page, you'll see that they are
skipped.

For the ones who'll check the markup: the few structural hacks are for NN4.

http://www.tjkdesign.com/clients/uni/OrderForm.asp?cart=-

Thanks,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Site check please - eCommerce

2005-05-09 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Jan Brasna wrote:
 Label is in Priority 2, title is enough for Priority 1.
 BTW placing a label there and hiding it via CSS does the job too...

Duh! LOL

Thanks,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] Site check please - eCommerce

2005-05-09 Thread Thierry Koblentz
diona kidd wrote:
 I'm using FF 1.0.1 on Fedora 3 and the links are working for me. Which
 version/platform FF are you using?

I'm using v. 0.8 and 1.0.2 on WinXP
When you say working, do you mean you can click on them and jump to the
anchors or that you can tab through all the links in the main section of the
page without skipping them? Because the former works, it is the latter that
doesn't.

Thanks for your feedback,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Site check please - eCommerce

2005-05-09 Thread Thierry Koblentz
tee wrote:
 Hi Thierry,
 I think your page has issued with Safari (Jaguar), it shuts down the
 browser after 2 or 3 second of loading. I tested 4 times, same result.

Hi Tee,
I was going to reply off-list, but on the other hand I'd like to see someone
else using Jaguar to check the page.
Just to make sure the problem is related to the site itself.

BTW, what OS is Jaguar? (you can answer this off-list)
I've checked with Safari v. 1.2.4 in OSX v.10.3.7 and it is working fine...

Thanks for checking,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] IE not displaying a link as a block level element

2005-05-11 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Drake, Ted C.  wrote:
 The rest of the styles use body classes to show or hide specific
 nested menus.
 
 Does anyone see a reason why the links would not display as block? It
 is causing some flashing as you mouse over the links and hit dead
 air. The hover goes off and on

Hi Ted,
To fix IE, try:
#mainnav a {height:1%}

HTH,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] IE not displaying a link as a block level element

2005-05-11 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Drake, Ted C.  wrote:
 I could probably generalize the holly hacks to the whole site, but
 for now I am doing it on the individual nav.  Are there reasons why I
 shouldn't just say * html li and * html a ?

Did you try to use Conditional Comments instead of CSS filetrs?
IMO, that's where this declaration belong...

The height:1% lets you also use padding with *regular* anchors in IE.

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] CSS Comments

2005-05-11 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Drake, Ted C.  wrote:
 This is a hack to send a style to Internet Explorer on windows and
 not mac. 

IMHO, IE CCs are a better alternative to this hack:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/dhtml/overview/ccomment_ovw.asp

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] Minimum browsers/OS tested for?

2005-05-12 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Neerav wrote:
 I havent asked this for a while so it would be interesting to know
 what the current trend in Browser/Operating system support is for the
 freelancers/corporates on this list to see if there has been any
 change in the last 6-12 months

I think of people stuck with old browsers, the same way I think of people
using keyboard navigation, etc.
I believe browser support is accessibility, so I spend time tweaking my
sheets, *trying* to make my sites look good in as many browsers as possible.

I test in:
Mac: Mozilla, Firefox, Safari, Camino, IE5.0 (OS9) and 5.2 (OSX)
Windows: MSIE 5.0/5.5/6.0 - NN 4/6/7 - Opera 6+, Mozilla, Firebird, Firefox
0.8+

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Minimum browsers/OS tested for?

2005-05-12 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Kornel Lesinski wrote:
 Pretty does not mean accessible.

OK, I should have said look good and functional ;-)
For example, when DIVs overlap, links become unclickable, content disappear.
etc.

 I think it's better to spend time on
 some WAI checkpoints rather than adding display tweaks for NN4 and
 alike.

I try to do both.

 If your HTML is well-written, it should be pretty accessible without
 stylesheets or scripting, and you could spend your time on something
 more useful.

If the HTML/CSS is well written a document can look good/be functional in
many browsers too.
For example, why is it so complicated for some people to have a decent
layout in IE5/Win? Because of its broken box model or because of the
designer's skills?

BTW, I think serving no style sheet to NN4 is one thing, but letting v.5
browsers feed on styles that break them is another story.

 I'd absolutely drop NN4. If it still has any users alive, they should
 be used to that sites are unstyled/broken in it.
 NN6 is rather experimental/broken and I can't even find a trace of it
 in webstats I use (ranking.pl).

My reply to the OP was to tell him how I do it, not to tell people what they
should do ;-)

 Opera users upgrade so quickly that Opera 6 now has few times smaller
 userbase than IE4. It's really marginal - I guess most of them are
 mobile phones users, and only Opera 7+ has option for testing
 handheld styles...

I agree...

 Check Gecko versions in NN7/Firebird and Mozilla/Firefox you use -
 probably they use (almost) the same engines, so you don't have to use
 them all for testing.

You're right, but it feels so good when you open a document in 4 or 5
different browsers in a row and it looks the *same* :-)

I don't [try to] build layouts with strong browser support because I have
too, I just do it for the challenge. And there is no time wasted because
that's the way I learn...

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] there is no attribute name

2005-05-14 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
 The proper way in XHTML is using fragment identifiers: giving an ID to
 an element, and linking to that, e.g.
 a href=#contentgo to content/a
 div id=content

I've found that using id instead of name for anchors (including a href
attribute) creates an accessibility issue since some browsers (at least
MSIE) find the location, but are unable to keep track of the link sequence
re: tabbing navigation.
I posted a message a while back about this, warning people that skipnav
links built this way are just *useless*.

HTH,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] there is no attribute name

2005-05-14 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
 I found that, even when using NAME, IE (particularly IE6/SP2 on
 WinXP/SP2) can exhibit this same behaviour of forgetting the right
 tab order. In fact, I just created a super simple page where my IE
 (version and OS as above) just does that
 http://dev.splintered.co.uk/IE_tab_order/.

Hi Patrick,
That's correct, NAME by itself is not bullet proof, but if you include a
href attribute in the named anchor (as mentionned in my post) it fixes
MSIE.
Try: a href=# name=content/a and you'll see that IE gets it right.

 And, in a weird twist, there are situations where, even using ID /
 fragment identifiers, IE gets it right (see for instance

I've also seen cases where it works fine, but I still have no clue why ;-)

FYI: I've also found out that styling an A element with no content (a
regular anchor) using position:absolute makes MSIE ignore the location
of this element, so IE does not jump to that anchor.

Anyway, it is important for people implementing skip nav links to *check*
them in IE to see if they work with keyboard navigation.


Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com | CSS-P Templates compatible NN4.7

-
| CSS Popups | CSS Tabs | CSS Dropdown Menus | Articles and Tutorials |

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Re: [WSG] there is no attribute name

2005-05-15 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Thomas Ditmars wrote:
 div id=content ...
 Does this also apply to HTML 4.01 Strict?

 I guess my actual question is: What is the proper way of coding
 '#anchor-name' links in HTML 4.01 Strict?

It is best to use *both* (up to XHTML 1.0) *with* a A element, to be nice
to old browsers. You may want to remove styles, but not functionality ;-)

a href=# id=content name=content/a

This should take care of old browsers, tabbing navigation and the Validator.

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] search engine question

2005-05-16 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Kornel Lesinski wrote:
 You have to use good, accessible menu that uses links in HTML.
 See son of suckerfish dropdowns.

I'm not sure if CSS menus are really accessible. IMHO, they lack a
timer, browser support is weak and most of them do not allow keyboard
navigation. On top of that, if not well implemented, they can be totally
inaccessible to IE users if scripts are disabled.
FWIW, I'd go with a DHTML solution that degrades nicely.

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] search engine question

2005-05-16 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Kvnmcwebn wrote:
 heres the menu

 http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex1/hvmenu/horizon.htm

Nice, but totally inaccessible without JS support.
Check www.projectseven.com I believe most of their menus are fully
accessible. It is important that without client script, the navigation fully
expands.
BTW, keeping this in mind, it may be better to go with a *vertical* flyout
menu.

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] search engine question

2005-05-16 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Kvnmcwebn wrote:
 heres the menu
 http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex1/hvmenu/horizon.htm

This link is to show you that I'm not biased when I say you should favor a
DHTML solution:
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/dropdown/demo.asp

;-)

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] search engine question

2005-05-16 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Kornel Lesinski wrote:
 I'm not sure if CSS menus are really accessible. IMHO, they lack a
 timer, browser support is weak and most of them do not allow
 keyboard navigation.

 That's the same problem most JS menus have as well.

That may be true for the bad ones, but not for quality JS menus.
And I believe CSS offers no possibility re: a timer. There are
workarounds, but they bring other issues.

 On top of that, if not well implemented, they can be totally
 inaccessible to IE users if scripts are disabled.

 JS-based menu will fail as well, and not only in IE, but in other
 browsers.

I don't really agree.
For example, the menu in my site is based on a projectseven's article.
AFAIK, it degrades nicely in old browsers or in the ones with no script
support.

 Having working, styled top-level items are IMHO best way such menu can
 degrade.
 Otherwise you may get something like few pages of unordered lists or
 spaghetti of links, which breaks page layout and isn't more usable.

That's why I mentionned vertical flyouts vs. horizontal ones

 FWIW, I'd go with a DHTML solution that degrades nicely.

 But suckerfish dropdowns is DHTML solution that degrades nicely.

You know what I mean, the suckerfish technique is not supposed to be a
DHTML solution.
And it degrades *only* if the top level items are actual links, which
sometimes is not the wish of the designer.

 You can get best of both worlds - extend CSS menu to have features of
 best JS menu.
 Add class to menu and make :hover work only on menu with that class.
 Then using JS remove that class and add mouseover/mouseout/focus
 handlers that implement closing delay, keyboard navigation, etc.

We agree on this. I believe that's what DHTML is, a bit of CSS with more
JS ;-)

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] search engine question

2005-05-16 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Kvnmcwebn wrote:
 Unless you think im making a HUGE mistake by using this dhtml menu
 from, im going to leave it.

IMHO, it is a HUGE mistake

 I mean what are the percentages of users with scripting disabled-is it
 really going to come back and haunt me?

Did you check the source code?
It is not only inaccessible to JS-challenged browsers, it is inaccessible to
SE as well.
If you need to go this route, make sure to plug some basic navigation
links inside the noscript tag pair along with the warning you alreeady
have in there.

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] search engine question

2005-05-16 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Kvnmcwebn wrote:
 The only drawback(for me) is that the text size cant be fixed as in
 the js method i was using earlier.

Actually, that should be one more reason to stay away from that menu ;-)
But check that menu in a different browser than IE, you'll see that
text-size can always be increased/decreased.

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Odd Firefox Issue...

2005-05-17 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Chris Stratford wrote:
 Hey Guys,
 Just wondering if you have ever seen this problem with firefox.

Hi Chris,
I do not experience any problem with that page (FF 0.8/WinXP)

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] CSS for changeing colors

2005-05-17 Thread Thierry Koblentz
The Man With His Guide Dog At The Tent Store wrote:
 I do not know if this is off topic. Can CSS be used to change
 background and foreground colors to create a more accessible web
 site.? If so, how? Or please direct me to a web site that discusses
 the topic.

Alternative styles article:
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/alternate/

FWIW, I use session variables to plug the correct styles sheet into my
documents.
It goes like this (ASP):

@import url(/css/generic.css);
@import url(/css/%= variable %.css);

That variable can target any files (for contrast, text-size, background
images...)

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] CSS list spacing: margin or line-height?

2005-05-18 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Matt Thommes wrote:
 I've noticed that the CSS 'line-height' property provides extra
 spacing between list items, such as in an ordered list, unordered
 list, as well as definition lists.

I try to favor line-height rather than padding if I'm dealing with an
element that is styled with a height declaration (because of IE5/Win's
broken box model).
So for horizontal lists, I use:
line-height: X
min-height: X
and then height: X for MSIE
This technique has the advantage of centering the text vertically without
the need of padding.
It works with vertical Lists too, but there is a bug in Gecko browsers that
would randomly create a small gap between some of the list items.

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] lights flashing - I'm not the only one seeing this - CSS list sp acing: margin or line-height?

2005-05-18 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Drake, Ted C.  wrote:
 Hi Thierry

 This has been bugging me lately and I've been adding margin-top:-1px
 to some of my navigation lists to avoid this random space between
 list items in firefox.  Do you have any recommendations for avoiding

Hi Ted,
It's Bruno Fassino on CSS-D who gave me a heads up about this bug.
This is its original post:

bruno
I haven't looked at your code, but the manifestation of the problem and the
fact that it moves changing font-size  makes me think that it is a so-called
rounding error (due to measurements expressed in em.)
Ingo Chao has a very detailed description here [1]; also check [2].
hth,
Bruno
[1] http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/geckogaps.html
[2] http://www.positioniseverything.net/round-error.html
bruno

Using padding *only* fixed my problem

HTH
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Site check - lastminute.com

2005-05-21 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
 In most browsers, there is no way to know how the page would print.

 There is a way: 'testing', but I agree on that browsers don't do their
 print-job the same way. Think Gecko is worst on print-jobs at the
 moment.

Hi Georg,
I was talking about the user, not the designer. Most browsers do not offer a
Print Preview option, so many people are reluctant to print a page not
knowing what they'll get. For example, many would not try to print a page
thinking that a colorfull banner, sidebar or footer (elements not related to
the content they are interested in) would unecessary drain their print
cartgridge.

 - Don't know about the new window - preview though. Not my thing.

It does not have to be a new window, but at least it shows them what they'd
get on paper.

 - Providing available alternatives in clear view, may ease access for
 many.

 - How best to do that, may be the next question.

I think the first link in a document (before the skipnav even) could be
attached to an accessibility page. Such page would address user's
preferences (text-size, contrast) a list of accesskeys (I know this one is
tricky), the CSS signature for the site and much more. I believe that would
help any user to know right away if the content of the site will be
accessible for them, regarding their own issues (whatever they are).
There are many sites out there offering more or less the same content, it
would be less frustration for the user if he/she could find out right away
if the site he/she is about to visit implemented any steps to facilitate
their navigation of choice, reading (contrast, text-size), etc.
I just think it is a waste of time and a lot of frustration for people to
have to discover how much a site is accessible for them when it is so easy
for a designer to make that information available to them early in their
visit.

 How far off from the original thread are we now?

Make sure to change the subject line in your next post
;-)

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Web standards presentation

2005-05-21 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Mike Brown wrote:
 if anyone is interested, I did a presentation on web standards last
 week and have put it online:
 http://govis.signify.co.nz

That's great.
Can we post that link to various NGs?

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[WSG] CSS Dropdown menu

2005-05-23 Thread Thierry Koblentz
For people interested in à la suckerfish menus, this one now allows
tabbing navigation in MSIE too:
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/dropdown/demo.asp


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Re: [WSG] CSS Dropdown menu

2005-05-23 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Frederic Fery wrote:
 on your site is says
 What's Bad

 We're using CSS for another purpose than presentation.
 why is it that bad?

It is said that flyout and dropdown menus belong to the behavior layer and
that CSS should not be used to accomplish such things.
Also, because this technique relies on CSS *and* Scripting it overlaps 2
layers; and that's supposed to be bad too ;-)
IMO, there is even a third problem, and it is about usability: there is no
delay that can be set regarding the collapsing of the nested lists.

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] CSS Dropdown menu

2005-05-24 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Rowan Lewis wrote:
 Nothing wrong with styling states with CSS, but there is plenty wrong
 with using javascript to overwrite CSS states when you could do
 exactly the same thing with CSS.
 However, adding javascript to make a browser work like the others do
 is fine, but you should try to compress it some what, to save download
 times.

I'm curious to know if you're saying that as a general rule or if it relates
to that menu in particular.

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Re: [WSG] Fluidity help

2005-05-24 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Tom Livingston wrote:
 Hello list,
 Need a little help. I am building a page -
 http://66.155.251.18/platformrg.com/ -  that was designed in a hard
 grid. Can I tweak this so that when text is scaled up, the boxes
 expand, at least vertically, to allow for the larger type as well as
 having the boxes maintain a min-height when scaled down - especially
 in the row that contains the image? I have trouble wrapping my head
 around the 'fluid thing'. I really can't change any design elements at
 Also, in IE 5.5Win, there is something up with the borders. Anyone see
 what that is?

I think it'd be easier to start from scratch. IMO, this layout relies too
much on the position attribute. Use a 3 cols CSS layout that works, float
the buildings image and use the footer for your What's new area.
Re: IE5, I didn't check but there is a good chance that your problem comes
from its broken box model (the relationship between dimension of the box,
border and padding).

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Fluidity help

2005-05-24 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Tom Livingston wrote:
 My first reaction was... Yikes!, Are you nuts!
 Me again,

 http://66.155.251.18/platformrg.com/people/

 In IE5.5/6Win (and Opera 8 MAC) I am seeing extra space under the
 image and can't figure out where the heck it's coming from. Can you?

This is normal behavior. It's because your left bar is taller than the
picture. Remove padding on your elements in the sidebar and you'll see that
the footer moves up and comes touching your image. If you didn't set your
font-size value using pixels, you could have seen the same effects by simply
reducing text-size in MSIE.

Re: the box model, if you have a 100px wide box with a 1px border around it.
In IE5 that box is 100pixel wide (including the border), but in other
browser (including IE6 unless it is in quirks mode), that box will be
102pixels wide. That's what you've small differences in IE5 with the
borders.
And it works the same with padding.

HTH,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] the mysteries of float - i seek enlightenment

2005-05-25 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Scott Reston wrote:
 In Firefox, the pullquote drops within the content to clear the first
 sidebar. Why?

Put your 2 sidebar (do not float  them anymore) into a container that you
float right, and give it a width (pullquote needs a width too).
That should do it.

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] the mysteries of float - i seek enlightenment

2005-05-25 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Thierry Koblentz wrote:
 Put your 2 sidebar (do not float  them anymore) into a container
 that you float right, and give it a width (pullquote needs a width
 too).

Of course, I meant the content of your sidebar DIVs not the whole DIVs. So
you're adding one DIV but remove 2.

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] the mysteries of float - i seek enlightenment

2005-05-25 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Scott Reston wrote:
 sidebars will likely be separate cross-sells. If I wrap the divs in
 one big div, I still see the same issue. 

Are you sure?
I just tried it and it seems to work just fine.

 The thing I'm most interested in, though, is the WHY? I want to

Did you check the BugZilla database?
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/query.cgi?format=advanced

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] the mysteries of float - i seek enlightenment

2005-05-25 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Ingo Chao wrote:
 This is float Rule 5: A floating element's top may not be higher than
 the top of any earlier floating or block level element.

I knew how to fix the issue, but I was missing the big picture. So thanks
for that piece of information

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] the mysteries of float - i seek enlightenment too

2005-05-26 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Ingo Chao wrote:
 While I was zooming the text-size in FF, I saw that
 one line of text partly overlaps the red float.
 http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/tmp/lineinfloat.html
 looks like the real browsers have some float bugs too.
 
 FFnightly20050525 WinXPSP2. Can this be confirmed on a Mac build? If
 this is a bug, someone knows the bugzilla entry for this?

What about this one?
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41412

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] why doesn't this validate with w3c.org and what to do about it

2005-05-26 Thread Thierry Koblentz
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 checked it and  w3c css validator didn't complain?
  once i changed test-align to text-align

If the Validator returned this error, but that you didn't notice anything
abnormal in the rendering of the page it is possible that you can safely
remove the whole declaration rather than correcting the spelling of the
attribute ;-)

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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[WSG] An alternative to FIR (Fahrner Image replacement)?

2005-05-31 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Hi all,
I think I may have found a new way to enhance the original idea:
The demo (scalable image):
http://www.TJKDesign.com/articles/tip_5.asp
The article:
http://www.TJKDesign.com/articles/tip.asp

Please report any error you may find.
-- 
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] An alternative to FIR (Fahrner Image replacement)?

2005-05-31 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Jan Brasna wrote:
 Well, I don't fancy it much, I don't like the idea of presentational
 image in HTML... I personally use own solution[1], based partly on
 Dynatext[2]. Now I'm playing with Anatoly's DIR[3]
 http://fecklessmind.com/main/5/definitive-solution-to-image-replacement

If the user browses with images disabled and large text-size, the heading is
cut-off because of the overflow declaration.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this method (that I mention at the bottom
of the article as well as sIFR) is not one of the very best, I'm just saying
that it has atleast this issue regarding accessibility.

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] An alternative to FIR (Fahrner Image replacement)?

2005-05-31 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Patrick Lauke wrote:
 Maybe I'm missing the point here, but...have we just come full circle?
 If you're already adding IMG to the markup, what's the point of doing
 h1img src=/img/helloworld.gif alt= /Hello World/h1
 and applying lots of CSS to hide the text, if a simple
 h1img src=/img/helloworld.gif alt=Hello World //h1
 will do?

You mean even if images are disabled?
That's true with some browsers, but not all. I believe FF and Safari do not
show the alt attribute value at all when images are disabled. And in MSIE,
this value is not displayed in relation to the user's settings regarding
text-size.

 Another idea behind the IR techniques is the flexibility of defining
 your images in the CSS, so that you can change them easily later by
 simply editing your stylesheet. Your technique hardcodes the images
 in, offering no such benefit (if the image's filename changes, you'll
 have
 to go back to all your HTML pages, rather than just editing your CSS).
 To make it flexible, you could use a dummy placeholder image in the
 HTML
 img src=/img/trans.gif /
 and use CSS background image for the real image, but then you may as
 well use any other element (such as a SPAN in...whatever IR technique
 I'm thinking of).

You're too quick to criticize the method ;-)
Read the article and you'll see that's the way I do it already. The last
example, the one I've posted, is only to show the scalable part (that
would be rarely needed because of type face).
BTW, what would be the advantage of using a span rather than an img element?
And then using CSS declarations that may have SEO implications or, worst,
create accessibility/usability issues?

 Nice writeup, but this seems like 2 steps back, rather than a step
 forward, unless I'm missing something fundamental here...

I'm not saying it's fundamental, but I was after a fully accessible
solution.
;-)

 Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] An alternative to FIR (Fahrner Image replacement)?

2005-05-31 Thread Thierry Koblentz
pixeldiva wrote:
 You mean even if images are disabled?
 That's true with some browsers, but not all. I believe FF and Safari
 do not show the alt attribute value at all when images are disabled.
 And in MSIE, this value is not displayed in relation to the user's
 settings regarding text-size.

 They do, they just don't show alt text pop up as a tooltip (because it
 was never meant to be implemented this way).

Who's talking about tooltip? :-)
If I disable images in FF and Safari I do not get anything. Do you?
Regarding MSIE, what I meant is that the alt attribute value does not match
the text-size in relation to the heading.
And I'm not even talking about people using their own styles sheet, that
could include:
img {display:none}
What do you think these people would get?

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Re: [WSG] An alternative to FIR (Fahrner Image replacement)?

2005-05-31 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Patrick Lauke wrote:
 Unless I'm mistaken, the WebDev extension does a fairly brutal
 remove images
 from the DOM. A far more accurate test (if you don't want to change
 your
 global options) is to choose WebDev's Images  Replace Images with
 Alt Attributes
 option.
 Can't vouch for Safari, but if it doesn't behave the way FF does,
 it's going
 against the spec and against User Agent Accessibility Guidelines.

You're right I was not using FF Web Features, but the WebDev toolbar. So
it's true that people who would use the built-in feature would get the alt
attribute value.
But still! What about Safari and MSIE users?
All UAs have flaws. IMO, our business is to deal with them rather than using
the specs as an excuse for not implementing the most accessible solutions.

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] An alternative to FIR (Fahrner Image replacement)?

2005-05-31 Thread Thierry Koblentz
pixeldiva wrote:
 Yes. I do. I get the alt text where it's been applied.

As Patrick pointed out, you must be using the built-in function of FF, but
it does not work that way in Safari (atleast in v.1.2.4).

 Regarding MSIE, what I meant is that the alt attribute value does
 not match the text-size in relation to the heading.

 Agreed. I wasn't remarking on MSIE at all.

We're talking about accessibility (at least I am), so I'd say that leaving
some UAs out of the discussion is kind of a problem ;-)

 And I'm not even talking about people using their own styles sheet,
 that could include:
 img {display:none}
 What do you think these people would get?

 That would depend which technology they use to browse.

I don't understand what you mean by technology.
I'm talking about using a simple style sheet to set one's own preferences to
take over the author's styles. Most of the time, I'd say it is to hide
images, enlarge text-size, add contrast to the documents, etc.

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] An alternative to FIR (Fahrner Image replacement)?

2005-05-31 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
 Ok, the IR technique I was referring to (now that I've checked) was
 the Gilder/Levin method
 http://www.mezzoblue.com/tests/revised-image-replacement/#gilderlevin

Believe it or not, but I didn't know about that one ;-)
Identical approach in term of CSS, but - as you know - very different
regarding markup.

 which uses a span, and my point was: if you're using CSS to scale and
 apply background to what is essentially an empty/transparent image (a
 1x1 transparent gif or whatever), then why use an image at all and not

How do you make the background image of this neutral element scale?

 settle for a completely empty, neutral element like a SPAN (as happens
 in the Gilder/Levin technique)? Either way, you're adding extra markup
 to your HTML, so you may as well use something empty.

The Gilder/Levin method relies only on CSS to display the image, if there is
a need to show both elements in the heading the solution fails if the
document is unstyled.
Also, an empty span is nothing more than an empty span. I believe an image
with meaningful title and alt attributes may be of better use.

Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] An alternative to FIR (Fahrner Image replacement)?

2005-05-31 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:
 For Safari (using 1.3), with images disabled, I get a grey outline
 where the image should be, and **sometimes** the alt text displayed.
 Like: if it fixes inside the bounding box for the image. If the text
 is too long, (ie a long long alt text) on a 20px by 20px image, the
 alt text is not displayed.
 Not Good.

Thanks for the info

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[WSG] Opening external links in popup windows with no extra markup

2005-07-29 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Hi all,
I'd appreciate your feedback about this technique that does not rely on
hooks; it only uses the href attribute...
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/popups.asp

Thanks,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Opening external links in popup windows with no extra markup

2005-07-29 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Hi Brian,

 Looks good Thierry.

Thanks

 One thing though--  what happens to mailto: links?

Good point! To be honnest with you I didn't even think about these :)
But they are safe because I'm checking for an HTTP string inside the
attribute's value.
I think this method could be used to style mailto: links as well, to let the
user knows that clicking on them will open another app...

Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com


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Re: [WSG] Opening external links in popup windows with no extra markup

2005-07-29 Thread Thierry Koblentz
 I think you ought to check specifically that 'http://' is at the
 beginning of the string.

Good point, I'll change this.

  a href=/protocols/about_http.htmlFind out about HTTP/a
  a href=/affiliate.asp?ref=http://foo.com/bar.php;Set your
 affiliation reference cookie/a

 And other than the design choice of whether all external links ought
 to open a new window, I think you've got something good. I like your
 idea of attaching the style and title with javascript so as to leave
 the natural behavior intact.

Thanks, but don't give me credit for that :) The only thing I claim here is
the use of the href attribute as the only element to use to determine on
which links behavior and style should be attached (external links, files
inside a specific folder, links inside a specific element...).

Thanks for your feedback and suggestion,

Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Opening external links in popup windows with no extra markup

2005-07-29 Thread Thierry Koblentz
 A more reusable approach would be to check for '://', as this is what
 differentiates 'mailto:', relative paths and 'http://' links, but will
 still allow you to use the script on secure pages.
 Whenever dealing with href maniputlation, it's always good to keep
 'https' in the back of your mind ;)

Nice catch!

 Other than that, it looks like a great approach for sites with client
 controlled content.

Thanks Andrew,

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Re: [WSG] Opening external links in popup windows with no extra markup

2005-07-30 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Andrew Krespanis wrote:
 The problem was that we wanted to handle links to non-html files in a
 different manner than regular links. Ideally, it shouldn't require any
 more effort from the content author.
 
 The following page shows a simple demonstration of the solution:
 http://leftjustified.net/lab/javascript-file-links/

Nice! Thanks for sharing...

Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] Regexp vs indexOf (followup on: Opening external links)

2005-08-02 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Ben Curtis wrote:

 But, honestly -- fractions of a millisecond. The only concerns I have
 for the equation are:
 1- if it's unobtrusively applied, then is it bullet proof (that is,
 can it give a false positive a non-scriptor will have to contend
 with)?
 2- is it easy to read, understand, and modify three years later
 without documentation?

concern #2 is what made me stick with indexOf
And thanks for the followup, it made me notice that I was still using
toUpperCase after switching from HTTP:// to ://

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Re: [WSG] IE question - user style sheets

2005-08-04 Thread Thierry Koblentz
 or a prefs page ala Stop Design. http://www.stopdesign.com

I'm using server-side scripts to switch Styles Sheets and keep user's
preferences active:
http://www.css-p.com/TNT/


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Re: [WSG] IE question - user style sheets

2005-08-04 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Peter Firminger wrote:
 You have a usability/accessibility issue with the onChange event on
 the style switcher. Take it out and add a button to submit it. Try
 NOT using your mouse and tab through to that form instead, then try
 and arrow down and you'll see the issue.

I know about it, but didn't want to put a button in there.
The second link on every page (after the skipnav) is accessibility, and on
that page the same options are available to all users.
But thanks for pointing it out, I may include a CSS popup or something just
for the non-mouse users.

Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] IE question - user style sheets

2005-08-05 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Peter Firminger wrote:
 You have a usability/accessibility issue with the onChange event on
 the style switcher. Take it out and add a button to submit it. Try
 NOT using your mouse and tab through to that form instead, then try
 and arrow down and you'll see the issue.

 Even something like http://esrab.webboy.net/toolkit.cfm

Peter,
I'm back to tell you that in fact I was totally missing the usability issue.
I knew the feature was accessible (through another page), but I blanked
on the fact that some users would automatically trigger the first option in
that list.
I'm still not using a button, but I removed the select for these users.
Thanks for the heads up...

Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Proper IE Hacks

2005-08-08 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Darren Wood wrote:
 I use a very simple rule that will allow for CSS validation...
 
 Its the  * html  selector

As a side note:
- Conditional Comments are IE/Win only (= v5),
- the star selector hack works with IE/Mac too.

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Re: [WSG] Sliced Image Dilema

2005-08-10 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Jeff D. Reid wrote:
 Can anyone here please post urls to some reading regarding the use of
 sliced images in building a website vs using CSS instead.  Kind of a
 pros and cons type of paper.

I'm not sure I understand your question. Is it about tables used to hold
sliced images, like some Graphics program create?

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Re: [WSG] Spacing Issue

2005-08-11 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Webmaster wrote:
 a div-based header/3-column/footer layout that is accessible.
 http://www.google.com/search?q=3+column+accessible+css+layout
 yields some good results...
 
 Sadly not.
 
 The search for a valid CSS/(X)HTML, hack-free, 3-column CSS layout
 continues.

Did you see this one?:
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/3cols/3cols/6.asp

HTH,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy

2005-08-15 Thread Thierry Koblentz
 I fall in line with Gary.

I do to, it just makes sense

 I use this: onclick=window.open(this.href); return false; instead of
 target=_blank.

This short script doesn't name the window, so it should spawn multiple
popups.
I'd use: onclick=window.open(this.href,'myPopup'); return false;
As a side note, some blockers kill these popups.

 Jeremy Keith recently spoke about using the class in the link to
 target a javascript to add the behavior, leaving a nice, clean link.

One can apply the behavior without any attribute other than href
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/popups.asp


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Re: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy

2005-08-15 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Gez Lemon wrote:
 Hi Thierry,
 
 This short script doesn't name the window, so it should spawn
 multiple popups.
 I'd use: onclick=window.open(this.href,'myPopup'); return false;
 As a side note, some blockers kill these popups.
 
 The window.open function returns true if successful, otherwise false.
 You could use the return value to determine whether or not you want to
 stop the href attribute being honoured to cater for blockers.

Hi Gez,
I thought we had that discussion already ;)

Best regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
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[WSG] window.open and popup blockers

2005-08-16 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Following the opening new window philosophy thread, I'm curious to know if
there are blockers out there that *kill* links that trigger popups (do not
open a new window, do not call the href value either).
I can understand the logic behind ignoring window.open (even in an
anchor), but then I think a return false statement should be ignored as
well.
AFAIK, that's Opera's behaviour...

Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy

2005-08-16 Thread Thierry Koblentz
 In the case of PDFs opening in a new window, you might not even need
 to add a class. You could write a function that looks for the file
 extension .pdf in the href attribute and open that link in a new
 window. 

Andrew Krespanis posted this link a few weeks ago
http://leftjustified.net/lab/javascript-file-links/


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Re: [WSG] window.open and popup blockers

2005-08-16 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Jan Brasna wrote:
 I can understand the logic behind ignoring window.open (even in an
 anchor), but then I think a return false statement should be
 ignored as well.
 
 Are you sure? There's no reason for such an action.

Jan,
I'm not sure I understand your question regarding what you've quoted. 
Do you mean there is no reason for ignoring the return false statement?

Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com


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Re: [WSG] window.open and popup blockers

2005-08-16 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Jan Brasna wrote:
 Do you mean there is no reason for ignoring the return false
 statement?

 Yes. I can't see any reason why a browser/plugin/firewall etc. should
 ignore an independent part of a JS code.

I see one. In that particular case, such behaviour makes sure that the user
still can reach the href value. IMO, it makes sense,
and AFAIK, that's how Opera's blocker works. It ignores *both* statements,
window.open *and* return false.
That's why I didn't really see the need for testing for window.open to
begin with, because in my mind a blocker that ignores window.open in an
anchor should honour the href value.

Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] window.open and popup blockers

2005-08-16 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Gez Lemon wrote:
 I've no idea whether Opera does ignore return false statements, but it
 would be outrageous if it did as it completely violates ECMA-262.
 Ignoring whether or not it's good practice to have JavaScript
 statements in an inline event handler, it is legal, and each statement
 should be considered standalone. It's up to the programmer to add the
 control structures to determine which paths are followed, not a
 browser based on the presence of a function call.

Jan, Gez,
I'm talking about a simple:
onclick=window.open(this.href,'myPopup'); return false;
In this particular case, if you consider normal to arbitrary ignore the
window.open statement, then why do you consider outrageous to ignore
return false. IMO, that's a smart way for a blocker to give control to the
user over the popups without killing the links.
I know Opera's blocker behaves this way, so if it violates ECMA-262 I
believe it's for a good cause ;).

FMI, do you actually know blockers that kill these links?

Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] window.open and popup blockers

2005-08-16 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Jan Brasna wrote:
 In this particular case, if you consider normal to arbitrary ignore
 the window.open statement [...]

 It does not ignore it! The method is fired successfully, but the
 environment processing it just does not open new window and tells the
 method to return false. It is not ignored in any way.

The environment processing it just does not open new window vs. it
ignores it...
Is that supposed to answer the question about the *return false* statement
that is ignored by the browser (Opera in this case)?

 FMI, do you actually know blockers that kill these links?

 Eg. older Operas.

That'd show that they considered previous versions of their blocker as
flawed, no?

Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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