Re: # Re: [WSG] Beta Testers Needed for BCAT - THREAD CLOSED
THREAD CLOSED GONE ON LONG ENOUGH Please do not reply to this thread any more. Thanks Russ List admin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply - ADMIN
ADMIN This user has been temporarily removed from the system. Apologies all Thanks Russ It says lol 5th of Jan anyone want to call him? anybody know when Geoff is coming back?? I am on vacation until 5 January 2009. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] is there a way to force legend text shows in TWO lines?
Hey Paul, 1. almost all browsers left-indent the legend element to some degree. They use different amounts, with IE being slightly different to most other browsers. 2. This may have been mentioned in the thread before but FireFox will not allow the legend element to be positioned at all. However, you can place a span inside the legend and move this. 3. You can use relative positioning or negative margins to move the legend to the left. If the positioning or negative margin is applied to the span within the legend it will work across all browsers. 4. Then the only remaining issue is that IE is still slightly different to other browsers. So, you can use a conditional comment, serve IE a new style sheet, and adjust the amount of relative position or negative margin - and this will only affect IE - no other browser. Why use a conditional comment linking to a new style sheet just for ie? - it means you do not have to do any form of hack, you are simply rewriting a rule - if the browser becomes obsolete in the future you can simply remove the conditional comment and style sheet - no need to hunt back through all of your CSS to find work-arounds. Like anything, everyone has their own opinion and their own solutions - this is just one possibility :) HTH Russ on 28/11/08 12:30 AM, Paul Collins at wrote: Hi all, Just to elaborate on this one, has anyone ever found a way to remove the left indent on the legend element in IE? I don't care if I have to add a SPAN inside the LEGEND element, I just want to make sure the text will be left aligned correctly in all browsers. Please send a link if you know a good one! Cheers *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Web governance - IGNORE POST
ADMIN Please ignore this post. Focus on the initial question post by Andrew. For those wondering, this post is wrong for two reasons: 1. totally unrelated to list purpose 2. hijacked an existing thread for totally unrelated topic. Thanks Russ on 24/11/08 4:58 PM, Tony Paterson at wrote: Ladies and Gents I am seeking JV partners for some of our company¹s websites If you have any interest please call or email me Cheers *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: Some links for light reading (11/11/08)
Didn't notice - but how funny :) on 11/11/08 11:28 PM, Dave Hall at wrote: On Tue, 2008-11-11 at 22:33 +1100, russ - maxdesign wrote: The Ethics of Quick Backlinking Strategy http://monsterboxpro.com/2008/11/7/high-page-rank-30-minutes-simple-backlink ing-strategy-guaranteed Is your (website¹s) underwear showing? http://www.zeldman.com/2008/11/07/is-your-websites-underwear-showing/ I don't know if anyone else picked this up, but link #1 has the problem described in link #2. I wonder if the positioning in the list was intentional :) Cheers Dave *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Who are the Away on leave Notices from? THREAD CLOSED, THREAD CLOSED, THREAD CLOSED!
THREAD CLOSED If there are any more posts to this thread I will have to come to your houses, one at a time... Comments? Do so offlist. Please, do not continue this pointless discussion. Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Who are the Away on leave Notices from? ADMIN THREAD CLOSED
ENOUGH! THREAD CLOSED 1. the issue is something we are aware of. The entire mail system will soon be changing so this issue will no longer be present. Please be patient. 2. We have just had 13 people complain about it, on list, which has created more noise than the last month of real away on leave emails. 3. Any issues/suggestions you have, we would love to hear them - but not on list. Email offlist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PHP DEVELOPER SYDNEY NEEDED! - ADMIN
ADMIN Please reply to Levell off-list as this is off-topic Thanks Russ on 30/10/08 2:39 PM, Levell Rampono at wrote: Hi All, I¹m looking for a PHP developer to do some work on a number of site (Sydney). If you are looking for work please let me know [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, -Lev *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Email form builder - ADMIN
ADMIN As this is off topic, please email Paul directly off-list. Thanks Russ Hi all, Does anyone know of a free online resource for building a form that sends an email? One that's aimed at people with limited knowledge of databases. I'm trying to locate one for a friend. He'd like to add his own customisable fields too. Most of the ones I am searching for want you to pay for it. Would really appreciate any help. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Fieldsets Legends
Hi Clare, Roger Hudson recently wrote a detailed article on legends and fieldset - including a series of movies showing both JAWS 9 and Window-Eyes 6.1 in action. The article is here: http://www.usability.com.au/resources/wcag2/ The relevant movie is here: http://dotsub.com/view/0064d19b-a8da-4729-86f7-a45aaa5bdd57 If you watch the movie you will hear JAWS 9 clearly reading out the relevant legends (at 2:25 of the movie). When Andrew goes into forms mode, the screen reader says: Participants name colon edit Participants is the legend, name is the label. You can also here the legend being read our in association with each checkbox item. For example: Areas of interest pottery checkbox not checked Areas of interest is the legend, pottery is the label, and the item is a checkbox. HTH Russ on 3/10/08 7:02 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at wrote: Hi, I'm trying to educate developers to add fieldsets and legends to their code when building applications. Jaws 5.0 handles fieldsets and legends in the form field dialog box but jaws 9.0 doesn't. I've spoken to freedom scientific and they say this Therefore, there is really no setting in JAWS 9.0 that can be changed to cause the List of Form Fields dialog to behave in the same manner as it in JAWS 5.0. Does anyone have any thoughts on this matter or know of any software that does support fieldsets and legends! Thanks Clare *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Accessible Forms using WCAG 2.0- an interesting article by Roger Hudson
Hi Folks, In case you are interested... Roger Hudson has written a detailed article called Accessible Forms using WCAG 2.0. The article provides practical advice about the preparation of accessible HTML forms. http://www.usability.com.au/resources/wcag2/ More importantly, it compares the WCAG 1.0 accessibility requirements relating to forms with those contained in WCAG 2.0. There are also a selection of movies where Andrew Downie demonstrate screen readers in action on specific aspects of forms. The videos are embedded in the article, as well as available here: Label and titles http://dotsub.com/view/9787ebec-941f-4e04-a5dc-f6ed7fde7247 Forms in datatables http://dotsub.com/view/b885eaad-5397-4db6-9970-ee39f51ed7ab Fieldset, Legend and nested fieldsets http://dotsub.com/view/0064d19b-a8da-4729-86f7-a45aaa5bdd57 Form errors and corrections http://dotsub.com/view/9276a7d3-cca5-4285-9a5d-89b21c0f9e57 Dynamically populated JavaScript Select Menu http://dotsub.com/view/4e2b28d0-4c13-4e98-8ce3-b380ef4be710 Show and hide form sections: http://dotsub.com/view/1cb6c35a-fc12-4f90-8faa-b5490d87ac2d Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon???
The short answer is yes Details of the accessibility of internet Explorer can be found in the VPAT (voluntary product accessibility template) supplied by Microsoft: (http://download.microsoft.com/download/c/2/3/c23bc250-5f80-4d0c-a29d-877355ff 91e8/IE7_VPAT%20version%201%200.doc) Thanks Steve! You can also download the VPAT word files for all of their products from their Section 508 VPATs for Microsoft products page here: http://www.microsoft.com/Industry/government/products/section508.mspx Search on the page for Internet Explorer 7.0 VPAT if you'd like the IE7 info as a 208k word file. Stimulating reading :) Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Coming very soon... ADMIN THREAD CLOSED
ADMIN THREAD CLOSED The employment aspect of this thread has been closed for two reasons 1. This list does not allow posts about employment opportunities. If you wish tyo post a job, email me offlist and I can add it to the weekly email that goes out to all members. 2. This discussion has hijacked a totally different thread. Please do not reply to this thread unless you are discussing the original thread topic - CHROME. Thank you Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Facebook downgrading support for IE6
Most schools around here don't even allow win2k on their network anymore. An interesting discussion. Agree that Facebook is an application and not a website - and an absolutely huge and complex one. From what I can see, Facebook is doing the right thing... offering full support for latest browsers and some support (access to content and key functions) for older browsers. - along with information about why upgrades and where to upgrade. Of more concern is the discussion about simply blocking versions of a browser (which is nor what Facebook is doing from what I can tell). This is not a good idea! Ideally, we should aim to provide support to as many devices as we can - whether we are building an application or a website. For many reasons: 1. business - can we afford to cut off 10%, 17%, 25% of our audience? While this number will continue to drop - the number is still high. 2. moral/accessibility - many people who use assistive devices such as JAWS run on IE6 still due to inability, lack of knowledge of how to upgrade etc. Do we really want to cut these people off entirely? The rules are completely different for intranets and closed environments, but on the web (site or app) we should aim to support everyone - and where needed, provide a lesser but acceptable experience. 2cents Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Google chrome... Coming very soon...
Some of the many comments about the proposed new Google browser... http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2008/09/fresh-take-on-browser.html http://blogoscoped.com/google-chrome/ http://blogoscoped.com/archive/2008-09-01-n47.html http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10029914-2.html http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/google_to_offer_its_own_browser_chrome. php http://www.smh.com.au/news/biztech/new-google-browser-to-muscle-in-on-micros oft/2008/09/02/1220121183420.html Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Internet Explorer 8 Beta 2 Now Available
http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/08/27/internet-explorer-8-beta-2-now-a vailable.aspx Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG promoting standards via teaching? ADMIN
ADMIN Enough! This thread has been completely out of line. The aim of this list, as others have said, is to HELP EACH OTHER. If you want to abuse people, please use a different list. THREAD CLOSED Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Spice up your mobile - ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED
ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED Please do not reply to this thread. The offending party has been removed from the WSG system. Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hoot of the day - ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED
ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED Please refrain from these type of posts to the list as they are DEFINITELY non-Web Standards related. If unclear, please read the guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm If you have an issue with this, please do not discuss it on the list - email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Please unsubscribe me - ADMIN
ADMIN 1. if you wish to unsubscribe, please see the info at the bottom of EVERY post: Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm; Remember, telling the entire list that you'd like to unsubscribe is like announcing to a room full of people that you are going to the toilet. It's not only embarrassing, but there is a very good chance that none of them will care! 2. Although tempting, please refrain from answering these types of emails. This just adds chatter to the list. Thanks for your patience! Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Marking Up Poems
Not if it's your own poem you're putting on your own page. Rubbish - I quote myself all the time! :) Don't you mean: blockquote cite=me Rubbish - I quote myself all the time! :) /blockquote :) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Firefox 3 candidate
Maybe a mac thing but I have have a variety of FF versions (as well as Moz, Opera, Safari, IE and Netscape versions) going back in time on one laptop and can open any as needed. The only limitation I've noticed with Moz related browsers is that you can only open one at a time. on 18/6/08 10:17 PM, Paul Collins at wrote: Does anyone know if it will replace your version of Firefox 2, or will it run side by side?! Cheers *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Job posting - ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED
ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED Please be aware that this list does NOT allow job posts as is clearly stated in the guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm The mail list does not cover: - Employment opportunities If you would like a job posted to the group, email me off list and the job can be added to the weekly email that goes out to all members. This email includes any jobs or events that members wish to share. Send here: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Russ Hope this is not OT! My parent company, Hoop Associates, are looking for a standards-savvy Digital Project Manager and a LAMP Web Developer to complement our expanding digital team. Full details here: http://www.thisishoop.com/careers *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Join me on Last.fm! - ADMIN
Thread closed. Please do not reply *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] 5.3 Expansion of abbreviations and acronyms in a document
a href=http://.co.nz/rss/; acronym title=Real Simple SyndicationRSS/acronym News Feed/a I'd go for something similar to your option 2: a href=http://.co.nz/rss/; abbr title=Rich Site SummaryRSS/abbr News Feed /a The advantage of using the abbr element instead of just the a is that users can hover over the RSS and receive additional information. Why an abbr instead of an acronym? It comes down to personal opinion but RSS is actually an initialism not an acroynm. Initialisms An abbreviation pronounced as the names of the individual letters formed only from the initial letter of constituent words. Acronyms An acronym is defined as a WORD formed from the initial letters of a multi-word name. Initialisms - like CSS or RSS - should be marked up as abbreviations - abbr. HTH Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Feedback - ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED
ADMIN _ THREAD CLOSED Hi Matthew, Happy to chat with you about mail list options, but this should be sent to the list admins, rather than to the list. All of these sort of comments, enquiries, suggestions should go to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Russ on 15/5/08 8:50 AM, Matthew Chambers at wrote: Dear sir / madam I recently joined this mailing list and signed up for the daily digest however I'm finding the digest hard to skim through to see if there is anything of interest to me. It would be great if you had the subject summary list at the top of the email which shows each of the conversations. This would mean that we could easily skim read this list to see if there is anything of interest. An extra bonus would be if you could just click on the subject name and it takes you through to the thread in the website. Cheers Matthew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?
CSS classes are for presentation. Content is content. Centering content is presentation. Class names should not use keywords such as center. centre is not a keyword and can be used. The class centre can then be used anywhere centering is desired. It is quite easy to remember what this class name does, but if you wish to use some more obscure name, feel free. But the class attribute (centre) is not css. css is what you apply to that class. Markup is markup. Css is css. Is it just me or has this list suddenly become a Zen poem society? Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] transitional vs. strict
Pages that validate as strict are superior to transitional because Because the strict doctype helps us follow one of the principles of best practice - to remove all presentation from markup. To do this fully, we should aim to remove all presentational elements and attributes from our markup. How does the strict doctype help this? Here are some examples... Using the Transitional doctype, the following presentational ELEMENTS are allowed: - u - s and strike - center - font - basefont Using the strict doctype these are not allowed - they are invalid. Using the Transitional doctype, the following presentational ATTRIBUTES are allowed: - background and background-color attributes for body element. - align attribute on div, form, paragraph (p), and heading (h1...h6) elements - align, noshade, size, and width attributes on hr element - align, border, vspace, and hspace attributes on img and object elements - align attribute on legend and caption elements - align and background-color on table element - nowrap, bgcolor, width, height on td and th elements - bgcolor attribute on tr element - clear attribute on br element Using the strict doctype these are not allowed - they are invalid. With the transitional doctype inline elements and character strings are allowed in: - body - blockquote - form - noscript - Noframes Using the strict doctype these are not allowed. They are invalid. Why is it important to remove presentational elements and attributes from markup? Because presentational elements and attributes add weight to the page and make it harder for you to manage, change the presentation of the page at a later date. Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] transitional vs. strict
For example, I don't use the strict doctype because, its better, cooler etc. I use it because it makes IE6 more predictable as the traditional doctype puts the browser into quirks mode which makes for a few more css display oddities. This is not entirely correct. There is a confusion here between strict and transitional vs standards and quirks mode Strict and transitional are both correct doctypes. Quirks mode vs standards compliance mode is about whether a correct doctype is present or not. For example, if IE6 uses a full and complete doctype it will render in standards compliant mode - regardless of whether it uses a transitional or strict doctype. If IE6 uses no doctype then it will switch to quirks mode. You can see this in effect in the three examples below... In the first two examples, the box model is correct width. In the third example, when no doctype is used, IE switches to Quirks mode and the box model is rendered incorrectly. STRICT DOCTYPE http://maxdesign.com.au/jobs/boxmodel-strict.html TRANSITIONAL DOCTYPE http://maxdesign.com.au/jobs/boxmodel-transitional.html NO DOCTYPE http://maxdesign.com.au/jobs/boxmodel-none.html The last page will shew a box model that is much narrower than the other two. Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] transitional vs. strict
Hey Dory, There are probably more detailed outline of all the differences but the ones listed are a start. If you are after strict validation, then the W3C's HTML validator is your friend. When you test a document using the tool it will tell you what is invalid and (even though the explanations are sometimes a little intense) give you an explanation on what is wrong. These explanations are a good teaching aid! It is also important to understand that a strict and valid document is not the ultimate aim - it is just one aspect of best practice. For example, you can create a document that is valid but uses poor semantics or poor accessible markup. Ideally we should be aiming to create documents that: - Valid - Use Semantic markup - Use Accessible markup - Separate markup, presentation and behaviour Thanks Russ on 30/4/08 8:44 AM, Dory at wrote: I have never seen the differences between the two doc types spelled out like this. When I was learning CSS our instructor taught us to use transitional-- less problems she said. I guess I fell into the belief that strict was for those who knew CSS forward and backward That strict was unobtainable for those of us who still refer to a css handbook at times and have a sense of dread with a new IE browser release. There are times when getting a page to work on all browsers and validate can be daunting enough just in transitional... Is this really all the difference between the two doctypes? If I print this out and place it beside the CSS handbook could I possibly obtain Strict validation? Thank you for posting this, Dory *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Spam mail got through? ADMIN
ADMIN Apologies to all for this post. The person responsible for the email has been removed from our list. As Andrew says, please let us know if you have problems rather than post to the list (to avoid additional traffic for members) - using the email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Russ on 28/4/08 5:36 AM, kate at wrote: Hi I just got an e-mail from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear friend We mainly sell electrical product . such as digital cameras, mobile,LCD TV,xbox, Laptops,DV,Mp4, GPS, and so on.All items come with 12month international warranty . If you want to buy something , please contact us freely , It looked suspeciously like spam to me. Has it come from WSG? Kate *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE 6 bugs
So this is one of those famed IE 6 bugs that is hopefully going away soon. Two issue sidebar shows up on top and not on the side and some of the fields have a yellow background (less important issue) Without looking in detail, when a column drops in IE6 there are normally 2 common reasons. 1. The most common cause is setting a margin on one of the floated columns that triggers a double margin float bug. In your case this does not seem to be the issue. 2. The next common cause is to do with content that is too wide for the parent container. You have two columns (#colLeft or #colRight) inside a parent container (#container). There is a possibility that some element inside one of the two columns (#colLeft or #colRight) is wider than the column itself. In most browsers this will not be an issue. The width of the columns (#colLeft or #colRight) will be honoured -regardless of the width of content inside. However, IE6 will honour the width of content inside the columns (#colLeft or #colRight) rather than the width assigned to the columns. This means that the column may appear wider in IE than other browsers. This has a spill-over effect... If the two columns (#colLeft or #colRight) have defined widths (240px and 530px), and they sit inside a parent (#container) that also has a defined width (770px) then the two columns may not fit if IE has determined that one of these two columns is wider. So, IE6 will allow the second column (#colRight) to drop below the first column (#colLeft). You can quickly test this by commenting out the content inside the columns (I'd start with content inside #colRight where all the action is) and see if the layout suddenly works again. If this happens, you will know the culprit and can deal with it - by assigning a specific width or using one of the more nasty work-arounds: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/column-collapse/ The yellow background in form elements may be a case of Mystical Yellow Form Fields http://www.htmldog.com/ptg/archives/17.php HTH Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Centering Elements
Try this explanation: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/center/ HTH Russ on 10/4/08 8:31 AM, Chris Kennon at wrote: Hi, I yet to devise an elegant solution centering all elements within div#innerContainer. Would a gifted Standardista offer an elegant backward compatible solution? CK *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] netscape 4 and css
Hey Dwain,
1. be aware than NN4 has appalling support for CSS so your styles will have
to be quite simple. For example, NN4 requires borders around any containers
where background colour and padding are used - in order for the background
colour to spread out behind the padded areas.
2. you will probably want to serve NN4 some CSS but then be able to
over-ride this CSS for newer browsers.
3. luckily, NN4 does not support multiple media types so you can simple
serve two CSS files via the link elements in your html document. The first
CSS file link contains a single media type = screen. The second CSS file
link contains two media types - screen, projection - which NN4 cannot
read. For example:
link rel=stylesheet href=nn4.css type=text/css media=screen /
link rel=stylesheet href=modern.css type=text/css media=screen,
projection /
4. Rules that are written in the second file that are of the same weight as
in the first file will over-ride those in the first file - because the
second file is later in the source order. For example:
nn4.css may contain:
body { color: blue; }
modern.css may contain:
body { color: red; }
NN4 will see blue text, all modern browsers that support the multiple media
type will see red text.
This is based on the the Cascade order: 4. Finally, sort by order
specified: if two rules have the same weight, origin and specificity, the
latter specified wins.
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/cascade.html#cascading-order
HTH
Russ
on 23/3/08 6:27 PM, dwain at wrote:
i have a style sheet for a site that i would like to serve a netscape 4 style
sheet, but i don't know how to do it. would someone offer advise as to how to
do this. some sample code would be a nice touch.
dwain
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Re: [WSG] netscape 4 and css
Hi Dwain, Hard to tell what is going on... Can you put a simplified version online for us to see? Easier for people to help then :) Thanks Russ when i view this site on the internet with nn4 the design breaks. i expected this. nn4 sees the background png and the background images as well even though the rest of the design breaks. i placed netscape.css first and adg-styles.css second in meta order. i would expect that the same styles in both sheets would make nn4 go ga-ga, but i get no styles at all in nn4. i placed the same styles from the default sheet in the netscape style sheet to work on getting nn4 to at least accept margins, but no, nothing, nada. now i'm really puzzled. i'm going to work this out. any ideas why nn4 shows no styles, when fed the same style sheet that breaks it on the web, locally? dwain *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction - ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED
--- ADMIN --- Hi all, We have had some complaints that this SEO, fact or fiction thread is off-topic. We have left it alone till now as the list has been surprisingly (spookily) quite for the last week. However, the thread has now gone on long enough. So, this thread is now officially shut down. PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS THREAD Replying to this thread could result in a warning email and a note sent home to your mother. Repeat offenders may be removed from the mail list, as outlined in the mail list guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm If you have an issue with the closing of this thread, please do not discuss it on list, email [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Have a nice seo-fact-or-fiction-free day :) Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE8 news
How many time you guys think that will take to at least 70% of ie7 users update their browsers? I estimate 2/half years ... anyone can predict? Yes, I can predict. IE8 goes on-line August 4th, 2009. Human decisions are removed from strategic browser development. IE8 begins to learn, at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. eastern time, August 29. In a panic, the IE8 development team try to pull the plug. Too late. IE8 launches its ICBMs against it's target - Firefox! How do I know all of this? I have detailed files: http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/makeup/4303/t2script.txt :) Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] strong element being more semantical and accessible for required field
I can't speak for screen readers since I've never used one my self...
But would there be any reason you couldn't do both and please the
client and the screen reader(assuming it does help them)? a simple
strong* First Name/strong
Just something I thought of :)
Interesting discussion. You could also use more meaningful flags like the
word Required instead of * and style this content in red/bold. This
means that everyone, including screen reader users understand the
implications much more clearly (as long as this information is included
inside the label element.
For example:
label for=details-email
Email span class=required(Required)/span:
/label
Or...
label for=details-email
Email strong(Required)/strong:
/label
Then you could easily style it with something like:
label strong (or label span.required)
{
color: red;
font-weight: bold
text-transform: uppercase;
font-size: 85%;
}
You can even position this required content after the input element
using absolute positioning as Derek Featherstone has proposed.
HTH
Russ
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Re: [WSG] data generator
Gary was having a bad day. He's now left the list. Don¹t take his comments personally, anyone! Let¹s all calm down and focus on the topic. Thanks Russ Looks to me like Gary was talking to all of us, or do I understand _list_ differently to others? Joe *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hello - ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED
Please do not reply to this thread Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hello - [OT]- ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED
Please do not teply to this thread either Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hello - ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED - AGAIN!!!
This thread has been closed. Twice. No more Thanks Russ I've been vaguely following this discussion and thought I would step in here. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hello
OK enough. Lets stay on topic before we irritate the masses! Russ List-get-back-on-topic-person *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hello
Have a read of these for the official definitions or descriptions of web 2.0: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/oreilly/tim/news/2005/09/30/what-is-web-20.h tml http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_2 A good slide show on the topic: http://www.andybudd.com/presentations/dcontruct05/ Or, sit down with some popcorn and watch a web 2.0 video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LzQIUANnHc HTH Russ on 12/2/08 11:07 PM, Gitanjali at wrote: Hello all! Can anybody help me in web 2.0 please *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Revolutionary news
May I also add that I do not trust this enough to add it to my flowchart that I've done to illustrate MS proposal... (Which hits a nasty bug in FFox!) It is a very interesting chart (I haven't seen anyone map out the IE8 situation this well), but it also renders poorly in Safari (can't read a lot of the text)... Do you have a simpler version of the chart (like, horror of horrors, an image) you could post and then link here for discussion? Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Compatibility and IE8
Hi all, Have you been following the discussions on the IE8 and compatibility for the last couple of days? For those that haven't been following it (or have deliberately run away to hide), here are a few articles to read :) Here is how it all began... http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/01/21/compatibility-and-ie8.aspx Then there were these two: http://alistapart.com/articles/beyonddoctype http://alistapart.com/articles/fromswitchestotargets And responses/discussions came thick and fast... http://annevankesteren.nl/2008/01/ie-lock-in http://ejohn.org/blog/meta-madness/ http://www.webstandards.org/2008/01/22/microsofts-version-targeting-proposa l/ http://unstoppablerobotninja.com/journal/entry/518/ http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roc/archives/2008/01/post_2.html http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roc/archives/2008/01/slipping_the_ba.html http://www.isolani.co.uk/blog/standards/EndOfLineInternetExplorer http://adactio.com/journal/1402/ http://www.zeldman.com/2008/01/22/in-defense-of-version-targeting/ http://www.news.com/Acid2%2C-Acid3%2C-and-the-power-of-default/2010-1013_3- 6227171.html?part=rsstag=2547-1_3-0-5subj=news http://intertwingly.net/blog/2008/01/22/Best-Standards-Support http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2008/01/the_versioning.html http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200801/standards_mode_is_the_new_quir ks_mode/ http://www.andybudd.com/archives/2008/01/has_internet_ex/ http://morethanseven.net/posts/who-loses-out-to-x-ua-compatible/ http://dean.edwards.name/weblog/2008/01/quotes/ http://www.rachelandrew.co.uk/archives/2008/01/22/ie8-and-the-future-of-the -web/ http://www.snook.ca/archives/browsers/version_targeting_ie8/ http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1201080691count=1 http://webkit.org/blog/155/versioning-compatibility-and-standards/ http://my.opera.com/dstorey/blog/2008/01/22/the-great-opt-out And two final entries discovered just now :) http://weblog.200ok.com.au/2008/01/opt-out-version-targeting-is-spam.html http://log.lachstock.com.au/past/2008/1/23/X-UA-Compatible-past-thoughts-of -children/ Phew...enjoy the reading... Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Opera files antitrust ... ADMIN
ADMIN: THREAD CLOSED This has long ceased to be a discussion on standards and has become a political debate. Feel free to move it the the WSG forum or off list if you wish to continue, but no longer on list. Please do not reply to or continue this thread. If you have an issue with the closing of this thread, email me off-list. Thank you Russ WSG Core *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Mail issues
Hey all, As you know, we are experiencing some mail issues. The read receipts issue has been resolved and the offender removed from the WSG system. However, the double posts has not yet been resolved. It appears that the problem is not with the WSG mail server but being caused by someone who is reposting messages. Regardless, we are looking into the problem now. Be aware that we may shut down the mail server for a short time today. Thanks for your patience! Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible likert scale (disagree/agree/strongly agree/etc) forms
Hi Nick, The sample code on this page you link to does not look ideal. As has been mentioned on this list a few times, title attributes are often ignored by screen readers. And the use of a table element to lay out the form is a little odd. Unless I am missing something, I'd say it would be much better if it marked up with standard form elements. For example (warning - code below thrown together very quickly): form action=# method=get fieldset legendThe product is a good value for the dollar/legend label for=strongly-agreeinput name=likert id=strongly-agree type=radio /strongly agree/label label for=agreeinput name=likert id=agree type=radio /agree/label label for=disagreeinput name=likert id=disagree type=radio /disagree/label label for=undecidedinput name=likert id=undecided type=radio /undecided/label label for=strongly-disagreeinput name=likert id=strongly-disagree type=radio /strongly disagree/label input name=submit id=submit type=submit value=Submit / /fieldset /form You can then use CSS (and a hammer if needed) to position these form elements exactly as you want. HTH Russ Hello All, I'm working on a Likert scale questionnaire (Strongly Agree/Agree/ Undecided/Disagree/Strongly Disagree) with 20 questions and some Googling came up with the following approach... http://www.enterpriseaccessibility.com/articles/ AccessibleRadioButtons.html *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] How to make DHML cover flash - ADMION - THRERAD CLOSED
ADMIN THREAD CLOSED These sort of comments are not acceptable between members: you are doing more than just your coding wrong you are not fit to manage a commercial development operation Michael and Chris this thread has now been closed as it has deteriorated into an emotional exchange that is benefiting no one. As mentioned yesterday - this list is supposed to be about helping each other. If you have nothing positive, informative or helpful to say, please refrain from sharing it with the list. Please do not reply to this thread at all! Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash - ADMIN
ADMIN A reminder to all WSG members (and this is not directed at any one individual) this list is all about helping each other. Please refrain from attacking, abusing or ridiculing anyone. Be civil and courteous. If you have nothing positive, informative or helpful to say, please refrain from sharing it with the list. The thread can continue, but please do not reply to this post. If you have anything you wish to say about this post, email me off-list. As you were Russ Miss manors *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Priority 2 error - Clearly identify the target of each link.
Hi Tee, Is it an Idiotic error? Imagine you're blind... Like a sighted user, you want to be able to skim across web pages rather than having to read every single word. For sighted users this is easy, as their eyes can grab snippets of content and subheadings to give them some context - without having to read the page from start to finish. For blind users who want to skim across a page, or jump straight to desired content, there are two common methods they use. 1. pop open a headings dialog box that lists all headings on the page. Then they can quickly select the desired heading and jump to this heading on the page. 2. pop open a links dialog box that lists all links on the page. Just like headings, they should then be able to choose from the list of links, and jump straight to the desired link on the page. Now, imagine that the link dialog box comes up and many of the links say continue reading. This would mean the blind user has absolutely no context for any of these link. This method of navigating is now much less useful. The same happens when they come across this sort of link when reading the page contents. A link saying continue reading gives them absolutely no context. They have to guess from associated content what you are pointing to. I've seen this happen many times when watching blind users in action and it is very frustrating for these people! Some are so irritated that they simple leave the website and go elsewhere. This is going to sound pompous... But even if it was not a legal requirement, it should be a moral obligation for all developers. We should all be trying to make our pages accessible to as many people as possible - not placing barriers in their way. If desperate, you can use methods like simple, accessible more links: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/more-links/ Apologies for the rant :) Russ on 21/10/07 7:13 AM, Tee G. Peng at wrote: working on a project that must meet all mechanical check for priority 2, via WAI or Total validator. Client is from UK and according to an article I read, by year 2008, all government websites must meet the priority 2 is that correct? This is not a site for government but client wanted WCAG AA compliant. In the site, there is a section for blog, and the excerpt follows with a 'continue reading' link (title attribute generated by the blog or CMS script I have yet to find out, and can't find a way to change or customize it). In the same page more than one article is listed, that means more than one title attribute with 'continue reading', as a result I am unable to pass the Priority 2: 13.1 Clearly identify the target of each link. http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT/#tech-meaningful-links Can this idiotically error be ignored? Thanks! tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Priority 2 error - Clearly identify the target of each link.
You have given a good reason, still, I think that criteria should have room for flexibility (just as George has given the same reason) because, link texts in the articles aren't the same and the excerpt of the article should have given enough information for a user (including screen reader user) whether he wants to continue reading the full article. If my argument is prudent, I think validator should have something like Tee, I apologise if I misread your original post. You mentioned a ...'continue reading' link... and then mentioned ...more than one title attribute with 'continue reading' I assumed you were referring to the content of the link being the same for each link - like this: a href= title=continue readingcontinue reading/a a href= title=continue readingcontinue reading/a However, you may have been referring to the content of the title attribute only - like this: a href= title=continue readingUnique content/a a href= title=continue readingSome other content/a If this is the case, then I agree with Gunlaug - that this is much less of an issues. The title is designed to provide additional information, and is rarely used by assistive devices. As you say, Steve Faulkner has raised issues with the title attribute - even though his original article is not online, he gives a brief summary here: http://webstandardsgroup.org/features/steve-faulkner.cfm#seven due to its present support in browsers, it can actually add to making content less accessible. Guideline 13.1 states that Link text should be meaningful enough to make sense when read out of context. It goes on to say In addition... content developers may further clarify the target of a link with an informative link title. To me, this implies that this title is not essential. It could also be interpreted that as long as your content is meaningful and unique, you should pass this checkpoint. Someone with a deeper understanding of this checkpoint may be able to clarify this! Again, apologies for misreading and for any confusion. Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] source order
Is there a prevailing wisdom in this matter? Content first? Or navigation first? You're probably referring to this: It is our view, that a continuation of the practice of placing navigation before the content of the page will benefit some screen reader users, in particular those users who are still developing their skills with the technology. http://usability.com.au/resources/source-order.cfm Bruce Lawson suggests otherwise: Personally, I use the visual layout of nav on the left, but at the bottom of the source. With a huge nav like a blog generally has, I think Google likes my content better if it¹s at the top of the source, and it¹s better for screenreader users not to tab through endless nav. http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/index.php/2007/navigation-or-content-first/ Vision Australia suggests that source order should reflect the visual order of the page where possible. So, if you had as header across the top of the page, then three columns beside each other (such as navigation, content, extra information), the source order should follow the same order. This would mean (header followed by navigation, content and finally, extras). Like many areas of accessibility, there are grey areas and differences of opinion. :) However, most people would agree that: 1. consistency across the site is the most important thing (changing the source order on different pages could cause a great deal of confusion). 2. if navigation comes before content, skip links are valuable for certain types of users. But for less experienced screen reader users, it seems clear that many are likely to find skip links a useful device for moving directly to specific sections of the page. An endless debate. And this is before opening up the other aspect of the debate... How source order affects Google rank :) Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard
I can only assume this is an attempt at trolling... Either that or phrases like the web is for everyone has fallen on deaf ears. Luckily, there are laws in many countries to stop companies and agencies doing whatever the hell the like when it comes to website and accessibility. Russ A private company should be able to do whatever the hell they like. Suit is without merit and frivolous. What's next, suing vehicle manufacturers for not providing a braille manual? I'm all for accesability, but there is no reason it should be mandated, and lack of is in no was discriminatory. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard
Which idea of accessability should be imposed? Yours? Mine? There are clearly defined ideas of accessibility for most countries - such as the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 1.0: http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT/ Or Section 508 in the case of America: http://www.section508.gov/ In Australia, for example, web accessibility hinges on the Disability Act of 1992 http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/dda1992264/ And is backed up by HEREOC's World Wide Web Access: Disability Discrimination Act Advisory Notes: http://www.hreoc.gov.au/disability_rights/standards/www_3/www_3.html#s3_3 In June 2000, the Online Council, representing the Commonwealth and all State and Territory governments, agreed that the Worldwide Web Consortium's Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 1.0 will be the common best practice standard for all Australian government websites. All this will change soon when WCAG2 hits the stands :) Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard -ADMIN
ADMIN OK, lets keep this discussion civil and productive, people! Russ Admin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest - ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED
ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED Yes, it is annoying, and something we are looking into. However, we have requested, MANY TIMES, that you make you comments/complaints/issues known to memberhelp rather than to the entire list - as all you do is aggravate the situation. If issues - send to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Russ on 17/8/07 4:25 AM, Alvaro Mouriño at wrote: On 8/16/07, Chris Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My point is, there must be a software solution to this in the mailing list software. Yahoo must be filtering these messages, no? Isn't there a better mousetrap here, rather than expecting thousands of members to remember to edit their settings right before they head out on holiday? I agree, this is the list with more oof replies I'm subscribed to. It's a bit annoying. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] ADMIN - You MUST take yourself off the list if setting an away message
ADMIN If you set your email with an automatic away message, you MUST change your mail settings so that you message doesn't hit the mail list. 1. log into the WSG site: http://webstandardsgroup.org/ 2. go to members http://webstandardsgroup.org/manage/ 3. click on Edit your login details and mail list subscriptions which is in the left column. 4. next to the Mail list options, change your settings to No mail from the WSG list. This must be done, regardless of wether you are currently set to either Full WSG list or WSG list in digest mode. It takes 2 mins. It saves a lot of irritation for others. It also saves you the embarrassment of having your away message hitting the list. I've taken all current offenders off our mail list manually. Repeat offenders will be permanently removed from the WSG system. I'd like to thank everyone for their patience and for avoiding the cardinal sin of complaining on list! It seems everyone is getting the message - if you have a complaint or issue, don't send a post to the list, Instead, let us know at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] opinions on the sale of .com.au - ADMIN
-- THREAD CLOSED -- This is off-topic so please reply to Matthew OFF LIST If you would like to comment on the closing of this thread, please either reply to me directly, or to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do not comment on the closing of this thread to the list. Thanks Russ Hi all, just a two question survey on australian domain names (.com.au) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Free Web Hosting With No Adds - ADMIN
We will soon be offering free webhosting services via ADMIN Please make all replies to Marvin offlist as he requested! This is wy off topic Thanks Russ Official off-topic police *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] ADMIN - Maria has left the building, and won't be returning.
ADMIN Please do not reply to messages posted by Maria Solange Siebra Borges. This users has been taken out of the system. As always, if you havge comments about the mail list or the running of the mail list, then email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do not send these comments to the list. Thanks for your patience. Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
There are about 65 so far. The user has been deleted and we are working on the issue. Apologies to all. Russ on 14/7/07 8:16 AM, Nancy Gill at wrote: Is there a way to turn this guy off? I just got about 15 of these in my email. Thanks! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites - ADMIN - very close to closing thread!
OK, this is not pointed at any one person... Lets get this thread back on topic and into more helpful, positive dialog - NOW! Otherwise the thread will be closed and you will all have to go to your rooms without supper! Russ (with wooden spoon!) If people are as severly misguided as you believe, and your opinion is this controversial, you owe it to yourself (let alone us) to elaborate on why this is the case. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites - THREAD CLOSED!
Admin This thread has moved way off topic. No hope of recovery. This thread is now officially closed Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites - THREAD CLOSED
THIS THREAD IS CLOSED This is the second reply to a closed thread. No more! The list guidelines state: The list administrators (and Core members) reserve the right to unsubscribe any member from the mail list(s)... Reasons include: - Repeatedly replying to threads that have been closed Thanks Russ on 13/7/07 12:51 AM, Bruce at wrote: ...As long as you have an endless appetite for learning more and more all over the board, before you know it you'll be pretty far along with your knowledge There really is no end to it, daily I am updating my skills and seem always to reach out and make that latest script I just mastered do even more. The only problem I have with this as a one man shop is that I spend more time learning than working on clients sites. Alas, I have not yet made my million...one more skill needed...ten to ignore - have no time...so I learn priorities...foundations. Web Standards. Content Management. Then the programming skills. After four or five years doing this full time and five part time, being from a construction background I speak of foundations a lot. Standards are that foundation. Bruce P bkdesign *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] ADMIN - Vacation messages and the WSG list
Hi all, A quick reminder... The WSG mail list guidelines state: If you are going away and setting a vacation message, please edit your preferences so that you only receive the Announce list or we'll delete you from the list http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm So, if you are turning on a vacation message: 1. Go to the WSG site and log in 2. Go to the members page 3. Look under the heading Edit live content 4. Click on the link Edit your login details and mail lists subscriptions 5. Beside Mail list options, choose No mail from the WSG. When you return from vacation, change the setting back to whatever it was prior to leaving. Simple? Sort of... Quick? Yes Effective? Yes - avoids arousing the anger of almost 5000 WSG members. Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] OT on list - ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED
Enough with the discussion on off topic on topic. Causing far to much green house gas emissions. Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] ADMIN - personal attacks, or disrespect on list are not acceptable
Hi all, Today we have seen a range of unacceptable behaviour on list including rude or abusive comments, personal attacks and a post to a closed thread. None of these are acceptable and future offenders will be removed from the list immediately. Around 12 months ago I posted about this to the list. It seems that a little reminder is in order... --- original post I want to talk today about respect. For those of you who have not heard of this concept, respect is sometimes defined as courteous regard for people's feelings. When you reply to a post on the list, you should at all times try to do so with respect. Everyone on this list is entitled to their own opinion. Sometimes they may be factually incorrect, other times they may have a different view from you but EVERYONE should be treated with respect. Below are some examples of replies that LACK respect: You are totally wrong That is silly That is stupid You know nothing about... You are dumb You smell Below are some more respectful alternatives: I'm not sure I agree with that I think you may be misinterpreting... I respectfully disagree for the following reasons Have you considered taking a bath? Today's lesson: when replying to others, be courteous or leave! -- end post -- Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] A note from ADMIN - out of office and trimming replies
Hi WSG peoples Two things to keep in mind - out of office messages and trimming replies. 1. OUT OF OFFICE --- If you go on holidays and set your out of the office message, make sure you change your mail status so you don't send out of the office mail to the list. To change your mail status: 1. go to members section of the WSG website and login: http://webstandardsgroup.org/manage/index.cfm 2. find a link in the left column called Edit your login details and mail list subscriptions. This will take you to the manage login page. 3. on the Manage login page, change your mail list settings from Full WSG list to No mail from the WSG list. Simple! All out of office senders will now be taken off the main list by core members immediately and set to No mail. Repeat offenders will be forced to take all 4500 WSG members on their next holiday. 2. TRIM REPLIES --- If you reply to a post, please trim your replies. This means taking off any unnecessary info from the previous email. This is especially important for those on Digest mode, as they receive all recent emails in one huge string. Trimming emails is also good for the environment. Remember, those extra pixels are adding to global warming - so do your bit and TRIM TRIM TRIM. Thanks Russ ADMIN *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] How to mark up a flowchart?
Forgive me if I sound defeatist in this, but does anyone have any ideas as to how to best markup a film in a webpage in a semantically meaningful way? Without opening another can of worms, there actually *is* a way to add meaning to films - called SMIL - Synchronized Multimedia Integration Language. SMIL When You Play That http://alistapart.com/articles/smil An example by Patrick Lauke http://www.splintered.co.uk/experiments/66/ But that is not really addressing the question :) Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Recommendations for books to take one to the next level
Whatever you do, avoid CSS in 10 minutes. The author was obviously a drunken bum who knows nothing. Plus I have heard rumours there will be a CSS in 9 minutes coming out, so why waste that extra minute! On my to-read list, and sitting on my desk, is Pro CSS Techniques. How Pro this is though I don't yet know. Kat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] stopping the email - ADMIN
If you could cancel the account for me that would be ace! ADMIN If you want to unsubscribe or you want help with the mail list, please email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DON'T email the list with these sort of topics as they go out to 4500 people who don't really care about your issues. We, on the other had, do :) And just so we are all clear, the help email address is on the bottom of EVERY post that goes out to the list. Have a happy day/night/non-denominational time period Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] target and accessibility
a href=LINK title=Buy TITLE 1 nowBuy Now/a a href=LINK title=Buy TITLE 2 nowBuy Now/a a href=LINK title=Buy TITLE 3 nowBuy Now/a a href=LINK title=Buy TITLE 4 nowBuy Now/a a href=LINK title=Buy TITLE 5 nowBuy Now/a This is an elegant solution but has one drawback. The title attribute is sometimes not supported by screen readers. Even in screen readers that do support titles, the option is not often turned on due to lack of knowledge or information overload. For many screen reader users, the solution above would give repeated links saying buy now - which is not ideal. Steve Faulkner wrote about the inaccessibility of title attributes a while ago: http://www.sf.id.au/ozewai/ A possible solution, as mentioned before on this thread, is to use slightly more descriptive link content - such as including the title in the link content. You can also hide some of the link content if needed: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/more-links/ The interesting challenge here is the difference between passing accessibility tests vs helping real world users. The title method shown above is elegant and would pass many accessibility tests, yet could be less than ideal for real world screen reader users. The slightly more verbose methods, including those where hiding is used, are less elegant but much more accessible for real users. The choice, as always, is yours :) Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Talking about tabular data...
Not only that the dots look clunky, like a word document user who hasn't yet discovered tabs, and so just uses stops or the space bar. If the dots were essential, they should be created using CSS (definitely presentational as they are there to help line up the two blocks of content). This would mean that they would not appear in the markup (they would make life hell for screen readers if the dots were content). This could be achieved using border bottom set with border-style to dots or a background image that is cut off under the two blocks of content... Should be easy :) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Website Directory Structure - Best Practice
I smell troll here's me showing my greeny status again... ;) What do they mean when they mean when they say that.. :( Someone who posts controversial or provocative messages in a deliberate attempt to provoke flames. Normally young and male, as surprising as that sounds ;) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Announcing GrayBit v0.5 Beta
Is the submission form supposed to work? On both Firefox 1.5.0.1 and Safari 2.0.3 on Mac OS X 10.4.5 I end up with a blank screen when submitting my web site (dynamic using phpWebSite). Try adding http://; in front of the web address before submitting. If the web address doesn't contain the http://; then it returns a blank screen - at least for me. Tip of the day: trim your replies! Saves people reading screens of text and helps the environment (or so I have been told). Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] targeting link class problem
div id=navcontainershort
ul
li a href=# class=onebla bla/a/li
li a href=# class=twobla/a/li
Start by thinking of the path from the body to the element you are trying to
select. In this case the path (we don't know the entire path but
theoretically) would be something like this:
body
div#navcontainershort
ul
li
a.one
So the selector could be:
body div#navcontainershort ul li a.one {}
You don't need to use the full path, so these are just as valid:
body ul li a.one {}
div#navcontainershort ul li a.one {}
#navcontainershort ul a.one {}
ul li a.one {}
a.one {}
The main point is to use these various elements as needed to make the
selector more specific (target certain instances but not others) or to add
weight (give it higher specificity).
The pseudo-class can simply be added to the end of an element or class
associated with the element. In this case it could be:
#navcontainershort ul a.one:link {}
#navcontainershort ul a.one:visited {}
#navcontainershort ul a.one:focus {}
#navcontainershort ul a.one:hover {}
#navcontainershort ul a.one:active {}
HTH
Russ
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Re: [WSG] WordPress - Dropped Sidebar In IE
I'm working on my 4th WordPress template, but cannot figure out why the sidebar drops down in IE view. It looks fine in Firefox and Opera though. Can someone take a peek at the stylesheet and tell this *newbie* what I'm missing? Hi Artemis, Rather than a solution, here is a possible method of working through the issue. If other browsers are rendering the column correctly, then the issue is to do with IE's habit of honouring content over containers. Other browsers will allow content to poke out the side of a container, but IE will force the container to wrap around the content. If there is not enough space for the container within the layout, then it will move down, line by line, until there is space for it to fit. This can result in a column that drops. So the question would then be What is causing the issue. One quick method to test the issue is to delete (or comment out) sections of content within the sidebar to see what is causing the issue. My guess would be the calendar that is marked up as a table. As soon as you find the culprit you can work out ways to solve the issue using CSS/HTML solutions such as: - set a width on the problem area - reduce some padding in key areas to make content fit - set a smaller width for IE and use conditional comments - adjust the layout to accommodate wider content There are probably many options but it is hard to list them till the culprit is found :) HTH Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Liquid Design Header
Do you mean like this? http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/liquid-background/ Russ Hi, Can any one point me to a good example of how to do a css header with a background image 100% wide, while having two distinct images on the far left and right and they behave in a liquid manner as the browser window is resized, so that both images maintain being far left and far right. Regards Geoff ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Plain text v HTML on this list
THREAD CLOSED Please do not reply to this thread - it has already been closed Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Font Sizes - Best practice
people that use the Internet world wide. Consider this: the number of people that visit my relatively small site every single day would be more people than I've met in my entire life time, so it's hardly... This could be read in two ways. You have a hugely popular site, or you need to get out more. I am hoping for your sake it it the former ;) IMHO, any smaller than 'small' (approx 82%) is too small for main body copy, though I know some that argue font sizes generally shouldn't be smaller than 'medium' (100%). It's ok for relatively unimportant legal mumbo jumbo (copyright notices, disclaimers, etc.) to go smaller than that, but not for main content. I'd agree, and use a similar principle. However, some would say that that there is no excuse for reducing ANY content below 100%. Could it not be argued that the unimportant legal content is sometimes more important to some users than the general content on the page? :) There are many developers, myself included, who would love to use 100% font-size where possible. However, life is often about compromise. Web designers/developers do what they can to please users, clients, managers, parent-in-laws and the family dog (often my harshest critic). A general request to all... the discussion is great, the information useful. However, this topic has a habit of moving into strongly held views and extremes. Please keep calm and civil. Although not as enjoyable, gentle persuasion is often more effective than clubbing. Russ Gentle-persuasion-free-styler ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Breadcrumb as Section Heading H1
I want to use the name of the site in the H1. Is it appropriate to use the breadcrumb as the H1 element? I'd say it is better to use the h1 element for the site name as an initial statement then use something like an ordered list or unordered list for the breadcrumb: h1 Site name /h1 ol id=breadcrumb liMy Site/li liDevelopers/li liResources/li liSpecific/li liResource/li /ol h2 Welcome to Site name /h2 ... Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] TARGET in 4.01 Strict - ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED
ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED Reason: There has been a lot of good points raised within this thread, on both standards and usability. However, we have definitely moved away from cooperative, useful advice on web standards practices towards strongly held and vocal personal opinion. Please do not continue this thread. If you have a problem or a comment associated with the closing of this thread please do not reply on-list. Instead, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Target sued over non-accessible site
So I have a question, so even if it's Alt Text, how would a blind person even see to read? Minh, Apart from screen readers that others have mentioned, there are also devices such as refreshable braille devices, which transfer text into braille: http://www.flickr.com/photos/russweakley/58957885/ It might be worth having a read of this article that outlines the various assitive technologies and how they are used: Disabilities and Technologies http://www.usability.com.au/resources/statistics.cfm There is also a quick and dirty version here: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/accessibility/04.htm HTH Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Today's lesson: Respect - be courteous up or leave
I want to talk today about respect. For those of you who have not heard of this concept, respect is sometimes defined as courteous regard for people's feelings. When you reply to a post on the list, you should at all times try to do so with respect. Everyone on this list is entitled to their own opinion. Sometimes they may be factually incorrect, other times they may have a different view from you but EVERYONE should be treated with respect. Below are some examples of replies that LACK respect: You are totally wrong That is silly That is stupid You know nothing about... You are dumb You smell Below are some more respectful alternatives: I'm not sure I agree with that I think you may be misinterpreting... I respectfully disagree for the following reasons Have you considered taking a bath? Today's lesson: when replying to others, be courteous or leave! In the near future I will cover a more subtle concept: how not to always have the last word on a subject. However, that is a bit advanced for now, one step at a time. Russ Miss Manors ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] 3 column layout - centre column forced below side columns in IE at low resolution
What I'm looking for is suggestions of better columnar layout in which rather than the centre column dropping down, columns stay where they should and the browser's horizontal scrollbar appears instead. This problem is due to IE's rendering of content and containers. Other browsers honour container width and either wrap or poke content out. IE will force the container to stay as wide as the widest content inside - which could be an image, a flash component, a url or even a long word. This means columns drop down till they find space that accommodates them. Here are a range of off-the-top-of-the-head suggestions - some of which may be totally impractical: 1. make the three columns float (or at least the left and middle) so that the third column will drop rather than the main one. 2. use min-width so the page never collapses below a certain point (would need something like Dean Edwards IE7 added so IE will honour the min-width) 3. use javascript to redraw the layout when the page hits a narrower width - flipping to a new css file: http://www.themaninblue.com/experiment/ResolutionLayout/ 4. place decorative image elements as background images so that containers can collapse without restrictions. 5. make the entire layout liquid so that the page can collapse much further without breaking - at present the left and right columns are locked to a set width which means the middle column does all the collapsing. I'm sure other more valuable offerings will come from others... :) Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] A hand with text wrapping around images in CSS?
Actually, when I examine your css more closely - you are already doing this, although you havent applied a width to make the float valid... Apologies for being nitpicky here but a width does not need to be applied to images that are floated as they already have intrinsic width. A floated box must have an explicit width (assigned via the 'width' property, or its intrinsic width in the case of replaced elements). http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visuren.html#floats In HTML, the following elements are examples of replaced elements: IMG, INPUT, TEXTAREA, SELECT, and OBJECT elements. Thanks Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Gaps At The Top - ANSWER
Without wanting to unleash too many ponies, I would be interested to know why using 0(px | em | %) is so much of a standards blunder. I'm sure there some obvious answer but for the life of me, I can't think of one :). It's definitely not a standards blunder to add units to a 0 value, just unnecessary. But don¹t take my word for it... Here is a range of others who have already said it more (or less) eloquently: 1. Specify units for numerical, non-zero values: CSS requires that units are specified for properties like width, height, and font-size. An exception from this is when the value is 0 (zero). In that case, no unit is necessary, since zero is zero, no matter what the unit is. http://www.456bereastreet.com/lab/developing_with_web_standards/css/ 2. When a value is zero, you do not need to state a unit. For example, if you wanted to specify no border, it would be border: 0. http://www.htmldog.com/guides/cssbeginner/selectors/ 3. Note that the zero sized margin is defined as 0, because when any value is zero it doesn't matter what unit you use. A zero amount of any unit (px, em, %, etc.) is equal to a zero amount of any other unit. http://www.communitymx.com/content/article.cfm?cid=90F55 4. If we want to set a margin or padding to zero, we don't need to include a unit (zero of any unit is always the same!) http://www.blueknot.com/CSS/thebox.html 5. You must specify a unit unless the value is zero, in which case no unit should be given. 0px is the same as 0em so units are meaningless for zero values. Write 0 on its own instead. http://wettone.com/code/css-style 6. The only time it's ok to leave out a unit is when you're setting something to zero. padding: 0; is a valid declaration, as zero is zero no matter which way you slice it. http://www.yourhtmlsource.com/stylesheets/cssspacing.html 7. Zero is always zero regardless of whether it's 0px, 0em, 0cm etc.. so no units are required when specifying 0. - exception: using color notation in rgb format: e.g. rgb(0%, 0%, 0%) http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum83/4514-7-10.htm HTH Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Gaps At The Top - ANSWER
Just to be clear, unitless non-zero values are appropriate for line-height http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visudet.html#propdef-line-height and are generally preferred, since computed values are not inherited. http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/line-height-inherit.html A good point, Felix. Also explained in detail by John Allsopp a while ago: http://webstandardsgroup.org/features/john-allsopp.cfm#line-height Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Gaps At The Top
Adding a margin: 0px; to the H1 element pushed up to the top. Remember, every time you add units to a 0 value, a web standards fairy dies. To avoid this on your conscience, simply use margin: 0;. Apart from the lives you could save, think of the bandwidth savings! Russ Web standards shetland pony ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: Moral High-horse - was Re: [WSG] Failed Redesign and the Media
As a far-from-guru-status Web Standards supporter/coder (I try) I have witnessed, on this list and on another css-specific list, quite a bit of condescending and 'forced-opinion' type of replies. It doesn't make for a nice atmosphere when looking to these lists for help. Completely agree. The most common off-list comments I receive are along the lines of a great list, very helpful, but sometimes a bit of attitude. Also, I don't think 'moral high-horse' is the right term for it though... What about web standards shetland pony? Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Cite in blockquote
It said that 'cite' is an attribute for the source of a blockquote,
which makes sense. However, when I tried to use it, I saw no
difference, not something when I hovered the blockquote or right
clicked.
It is also possible to display the cite attribute using attribute selectors,
(except in the wondrous IE). A quick example:
HTML
-
blockquote cite=http://www.site.com;
pLorem ipsum dolor /p
/blockquote
CSS
blockquote[cite]:after
{
content: Source: attr(cite);
display: block;
}
The result should show the following at the end of the blockquote contents
(in attribute selector supporting browsers):
Source: http://www.site.com;
Thanks
Russ
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Re: [WSG] Title Attribute
The flexibility of the title attribute (as opposed to the title element) can be seen in the ever-exciting W3 technical reports. Two places that are always a great read, and full of surprises are the List of attributes [1] and List of elements [2]. The list of attributes shows the title and has info beside it saying its related elements are: All elements but BASE, BASEFONT, HEAD, HTML, META, PARAM, SCRIPT, TITLE Before getting too excited though, an essential read on this topic is Steve Faulkners The Trouble with the Title attribute [3]. [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/index/attributes.html [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/index/elements.html [3] http://www.sf.id.au/ozewai/ Thanks Russ Hi, My understanding of the title element appears shallow. Usage of the title attribute within an Object , Frame and link is well documented. However, when I encountered it with p title=some titleSome Text/ p my was took on a wide-eyed look of embarrassment, as I was unaware of its usage in this context. Would someone enlighten on the flexibility of the title attribute? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Title Attribute
The impression I'm getting from the replies today are title as an attribute, has inconsistent interpretation by most UA's. However, as an element it is essential to the document. Is this interpretation correct? Steve's article would back up your comment that the title attribute is inconsistently interpreted by a range of UAs. The title element is essential in order to create a valid HTML4.01 or XHTML 1.0 document (not sure about HTML3.2 or earlier). You can test this yourself by uploading a file with and without a title then validating it. Hours of fun! Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] what cms system - THREAD CLOSED
THREAD CLOSED The mail list does not cover: Discussion of content management/web publishing system issues beyond those directly involved with Web Standards (there is a CMS list for that purpose, Log in and go to Edit your login details and mail list subscriptions and set your preferences to Full CMS list or CMS list in digest mode) http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm If you want to answer kvnmcwebn, please reply offlist. Please do not continue this thread. If you have a problem with the closing of this thread, please email [EMAIL PROTECTED], do not comment on-list. Thank Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE5.5 indenting list items
I have played with margins, padding, text align and text-indent. I even removed the float on the container div and the problem persists. Has anyone encountered this before? A link to online sample of this problem, stripped back to just the problem area, and a link to the stripped back css file would help a lot. Thanks Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Driven? ADMIN THREAD CLOSED
ADMIN THREAD CLOSED Reasons for closing: The CSS driven thread has gone on far too long and has been dangerously close to flame-wars on several occasions. Time to move on please. Please do not reply to this post or continue this thread. If you have a comment or an issue with the closing of this thread, do not post to the list. Instead, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Help with CSS ul
Hey Jose, It seems that you are referring to the li elements within the #contentright div? I don¹t have IE in front of me but there is a known whitespace bug to do with IE and list items. There are a range of methods that can be used to fix it including: 1. floating the li 2. setting the a element to display block, moving the background image to this element and then adding display: inline to overcome whitespace issues. 3. using negative margins on the li 4. playing with border-bottom on the li Best to try them all and see which suits your needs. On another note, you seem to have linked to the one css file twice in the head of your document. First link: link rel=stylesheet href=http://constantconcept.com/wp-content/themes/mio/style.css; type=text/css media=screen / Second link: style type=text/css !-- @import url(http://constantconcept.com/wp-content/themes/mio/style.css;); -- /style If the aim is to hide styles from older browsers, the second method may be best, but it would definitely be best to link to the same file only once... Unless I am missing something here :) Finally, everyone stuffs up their first post or two to mail lists. I think I stuffed up my first 20 or so... Don't stress about it! HTH Russ Hello, Does anyone can help me? I want to know why in IE my side bar is wrong i mean the bullets are not in the rigth place, and when i see it in Firefox its ok... is there a css hack that i need for IE? Thanks for your help. PD: Sorry about the last message that i sent it had the wrong subject accidentally ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Posting and discussions on the WSG list
Hi all, Generally speaking, the WSG list has a great vibe - with members helping each other and offering advice. However, I have been concerned with a recent trend on list. There seems to be an element of lecturing, chest beating and heavy-handed criticism. Can I ask all members to think of a few things before posting. We should all avoid: - Posts that criticise other people or their opinion. - Posting to show other people how clever we are. - Continuing threads that have obviously moved away from open discussion into dogmatic stances and set opinions. The aim of this list is not to scare people off, to put people down or to hammer people with your opinion. The aim of posting is to help others and to stimulate discussion around the topic of web standards. For new members, a few simple guides that may help you as well as helping those that want to help you (and possibly even help those who want to help those who want to help you - but I should stop before I get dizzy). 1. Set up a sample page that shows just the problem in action. 2. Validate your HTML code 3. Validate your CSS code 4. Test the page on a range of browsers - as many as you can get access to. 5. Post your problem to the list with the following info: - a link to the sample url - a link to the css file if it is separate - a short, clear explanation of the problem - a list of browsers and how they render the problem M Sound familiar? http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm A final request... Please don't respond to this on-list - feel free to abuse me OFFLIST! :) Peace! Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
