Re: [WSG] csscreator.com multimenu
Hi All, My first post to this list. A couple of points regarding CSSCreator MultiMenu which may have been overlooked. Firstly JavaScript is only needed by IE for that menu, any of the other supported browsers will function fine without it. I like the menu because of the very small JavaScript file and would be interested to see any other similar menus that function without JavaScript. If IE with javascript disabled is a problem it would be fairly easy to give it an open bulleted list or formated however you want. The steps would be something along these lines: Firstly load the CSS as normal for all browsers. Then use the Holly Hack or something similar to give IE only a menu that is open and available without JavaScript. Lastly use JavaScript for IE with JavaScript to close up the menu and prepare it for action. This would of course complicate the menu and moves away from the simple menu that it is now. It is wise to provide an alternative way of navigating a site when using any menu. Hope that helps. Tony. http://www.csscreator.com http://www.appcreator.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] csscreator.com multimenu
I have answered this on the CSS Forum. Just to add a little more, vertical-align works on the inline box or line-height and positions the text within that line, not within the container as a whole. If bottom worked correctly that would have been a good option, but for your example just using margin-top will do what you need. Tony http://www.csscreator.com http://www.appcreator.com Quoting theGrafixGuy [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Yes, I tried that initially and no go - hence the stupid question that is turning out to not be so stupid after all :-) Right now I got it faked using a few br / but I don't wanna do that as it just feel to go against the clean code I am trying to create here. Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy http://www.thegrafixguy.com 503-887-4943 925-226-4085 (fax) * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS support table?
Hi Zulema, I developing a list of CSS properties that contains a description and browser support. It is still very much under construction, more content needed. http://www.csscreator.com/attributes/ Hope that helps. Quoting !!blue [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi all, Where can I find some sort of table that lists the CSS attributes and the browsers that support each attribute? I've found a few here and there, for example: -- www.westciv.com/style_master/academy/browser_support/basic_concepts.html or -- www.w3schools.com/css/css_reference.asp are there any others I should be looking at? thanks, Zulema · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Z u l e m a O r t i z w e b d e s i g n e r email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] website : http://zoblue.com/ weblog : http://blog.zoblue.com/ · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Help with Float
Quoting Sean Sullivan-Daley [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I am trying to float 3 columns next to each other. This appearas to be OK in IE6 but is broken in FireFox. The columns break out of the container in FireFox. There's now a new way to clear float containers without the need to use an extra clearing element. http://www.csscreator.com/attributes/containedfloat.php Tony * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS vs tables
Here are some thoughts on Tables and tableless design, I tried to make it brief :). Tables and divs (CSS needs some structure) have different properties and so react differently to different situations. A printed page is very different to a page viewed on the web via a web enabled device. Once a page is printed that's it, no different resolution or device to worry about. Tables give us a more rigid layout closer to print, which is what most web designs were (and possibly still are) based on. As the web evolves we need to develop more flexible pages that can be viewed in numerous devices at different resolutions etc. This is where divs and CSS have a big advantage over table designs. Divs and CSS and be used to develop fluid designs. The problem is that most people still have hangups over printed media and fixed layouts. They want this column next to that one all the time and for it to look the same on every device. There's nothing wrong with a column droping to the next line at small window sizes. Or that the page looks different in browser A when compared with browser B. It's only us web developers that use multiple browsers to view a site anyway. So if A looks slightly different from B as long as they look good and the content is accessible we should have nothing to worry about. Web Development is evolving and will continue to evolve as will the minds and ideas of the developers. There is no perfect way to build a web site we can only do our best with the knowledge of the time. In 5 years people will say that some of the techniques we think are great today are inaccessible for the next generation of devices. We still have a long way to go in improving designs but I think we are heading in the right direction. Tony http://www.csscreator.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Out of office reply
Hi, I will be off line the remainder of Friday April 20th. If this is an urgent matter, please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Regards, Tony Chester - OnWired, LLC. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] repeating background png support ie6
Hey Kevin, I have the same problem with my ies4linux, so I just use an online tester. For quick checks of IE6/7 I use the netrenderer: http://ipinfo.info/netrenderer/ and for more advanced checks use browsershots: http://browsershots.org/ Cheers, Tony kevin mcmonagle wrote: Hi, Whats the standards way to handle or degrade ie6 png support for a repeating background img? Im having problems solving this-ies4mac doesn't seem to do well with conditional comments and png hacks-so i cant tell whats working. Im thinking about putting the wrapper div with the repeating background image in two different stylesheets. One with a png for normal browsers and one with a gif for ie then i would just hide the png from ie6 and give it the gif one with conditional comments. Also if anyone can email me a screen shot from ie6 off list that would be great. beta page: http://www.arasgcc.com/indextest.html -thanks kevin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What Editors do you guys use?
At 05:07 on Sunday, 06 Jun 2004, helmut wrote: What CSS/XHTML/HTML editors do you guys use for hand coding and testing? Topstyle Pro 3.1 is my choice. Simply the best windows application for handcoding html / CSS includes most language syntax coloring and mapping for local live previews via a local server. Support is fantastic, Nick haunts the support bulletin boards and is building version 4 from user feedback and feature requests. Site management makes a lot of stuff quick and easy, The clip library means I can store all my frequently used code, by project/project type. My only criticism is that the bradsoft web site doesn't make enough noise about all the features of the application - you have to download and play to discover them and there are many hidden greats. (integrated accessibility checks, style sweeping, style export to given standard or browser (for sheet separation), replacement tokens for fully customised snippet insertion etc.) It's great. I love it. I'll even split my affiliate commission with you: Topstyle Pro 3.10 http://www.regnow.com/softsell/nph-softsell.cgi?item=6598-4affiliate=16516 Upgrade: http://www.regnow.com/softsell/nph-softsell.cgi?item=6598-5affiliate=16516 coupon code: BOLD-CCN4 ;o) * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Which *free* editors do you guys recommend?
At 08:35 on Sunday, 06 Jun 2004, Sean M. Hall AKA Dante wrote: Self explanatory, see subject. As I said before: syntax highlighting and no automatic insertion. http://www.scintilla.org/SciTE.html small footprint. code folding loads of syntax highlighting hth * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] KHTML ??
At 14:10 on Thursday, 10 Jun 2004, Jad Madi wrote: guys what is KHTML ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KHTML and you'll probably like this: http://www.fuckinggoogleit.com (I'll get my coat) ;o) * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar
At 07:15 on Wednesday, 14 Jul 2004, Donna Jones wrote: Hi everyone, I just signed on to this list today and just set up a new filter and corralled all the messages. I would like to download this new toolbar for accessibility testing. Everyone's talking about it but I couldn't find a url - anyone? I'm mainly here to lurk 'n learn, don't tend to be very chatty but just thought i'd say a few words and see if i could get that toolbar! :-) this one? http://www.nils.org.au/ais/web/resources/toolbar/#download hth * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Table-Free Design
Hi John, You could also try out the css layout generator http://www.csscreator.com/version2/pagelayout.php Tony http://www.csscreator.com/ http://www.multiwebspace.com/ John Horner wrote: If I want to find solid building blocks for a table-free layout, where should I start? I mean, I know there are hundreds of websites, but the recommendations of this group ought to be particularly useful. The thing is, I want a lot! In terms of the page, I'm simply looking for * banner * three-column flexible layout for the main content * footer but I'm hoping that the page doesn't exhibit any strange behaviours when the page gets too small/content gets too bit, like DIVs overlapping each other or disappearing to the bottom of the page, and I'm even hoping that the layout can be content-first, nav-second in the source. I was also hoping that the CSS can be relatively straightforward and not consist of 147 nested @import statements full of high-pass/low-pass filters and box model hack code etc. Am I asking too much? I won't be trying to support Netscape 4, if that helps... jh ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Anyone know of any good DOM tutorials?
Hi Seona, Mozilla has really good DOM resources http://www.mozilla.org/docs/dom/ http://www.mozilla.org/docs/dom/domref/ This might be specifically what you want http://www.mozilla.org/docs/dom/domref/dom_el_ref4.html#1027595 Tony Aslett http://www.csscreator.com/ Seona Bellamy wrote: Hi guys, Anyone know where I can find a good, easy to follow online tutorial on using the DOM to control elements on a webpage? Specifically, I need to change the class of an element to a different class. Cheers, Seona. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS rules quirks database
Hi Paul, I created a list of CSS properties and browsers that support them http://www.csscreator.com/attributes/ It still needs a little work refining and adding content. The idea was to get the community (members of the CSS Forum) behind it and have them add to the content. Once logged in you can add / edit content and levels of browser support or make a comment. Eventually I will get around to finishing it off, it's on my to do list. Tony Aslett http://www.csscreator.com/ Paul Novitski wrote: Friends, Drowning as I am in the unending flood of details about CSS -- what works and what doesn't on which browsers, and how to make a particular effect work cross-browser -- I've started conceiving a database to augment my maxed-out cerebrum. Such a database could be queried for suggestions of how to accomplish a given presentational task, to advise about the cross-browser issues of particular elements, and to provide links to source material and demos on the net. Ultimately it might be made into a validator to help folks pinpoint problems in their markup. It would contain the kinds of details that are imparted daily on this glorious list, although I cannot imagine it ever rendering CSS listserves obsolete because of the endless fountain of human invention they convey. Before I get too far into this project, I'm wondering: - Is anyone else working on this kind of thing? - Would you like to join a working group to discuss its feasibility and implementation? Thanks, Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS rules quirks database
Paul Novitski wrote: At 05:00 PM 9/23/2004, Tony Aslett wrote: I created a list of CSS properties and browsers that support them http://www.csscreator.com/attributes/ Excellent work, Tony. Are you storing this in an SQL database? Thanks Paul, Yes it's stored in a MySQL database. I'd like to see some other layers of information added to a database such as yours. For instance, in addition to generalizing None, Part, or Full support of a property by various browsers, I'd also like to specify exactly how they differ, since all browsers that support a particular feature may not do so in the same way. There are also quirks that don't quite come in the category of support but are critical nonetheless, such as the way IE requires there to be a background-color in order to render certain elements properly. Comments were meant to take care of browser quirks, so far there is only a couple of properties that have had comments added. Hopefully over time more will be added. Other quirks, such as IE's maverick box model, would be difficult to categorize in a listing of properties but could probably be referenced under such properties as margin padding. Again comments should be able to take care of that. There are certain phenomena that occur when several properties and elements interact, and it would be great to be able to find out what the database knows about, say, a UL nested inside a DIV when its LIs have float: left. Cross referencing properties would be possible but not on the database in it's current form. It really wasn't in my initial design to be able to cross reference properties and it would increase the complexity quite a lot. Onward~ Paul Tony Aslett http://www.csscreator.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Yahoo CSS'ing
I'm a bit confused, if I go to http://www.yahoo.com/ I'm still seeing the tabled version. have they got some clever locale sniffing going on or what? (I'm in the UK) -- listening to: background noise http://wiki.workalone.co.uk http://www.xebit.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Yahoo CSS'ing
At 09:34 on Thursday, 30 Sep 2004, Mugur Padurean wrote: Tony Crockford wrote: I'm a bit confused, if I go to http://www.yahoo.com/ I'm still seeing the tabled version. have they got some clever locale sniffing going on or what? (I'm in the UK) Here you go: http://www.yahoo.com/?r=1096530966 but sadly not for me seems to be very selective, some colleagues in a different office (1 on mac 1 on pc) get two different sites... -- listening to: background noise http://wiki.workalone.co.uk http://www.xebit.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Table-style admin layouts
At 07:48 on Tuesday, 05 Oct 2004, Peter Ottery wrote: Is there a best-practice way to build an item display with multiple columns, but without using tables? Name Price Quantity EditDelete Apple $5.0025 [edit] [delete] Pear $4.00 3 [edit] [delete] Banana $12.00 5 [edit] [delete] 1 vote for thats table data - use a table /lurk A small concern here... The subject line and the presence of edit and delete columns suggest that this is in fact an interactive form, not a display of tabular data. shouldn't we be pointing to all the good stuff on form styling and layout? (eg http://www.aplus.co.yu/dots/109/) or are we saying that forms with tabular data (and edit/delete buttons) can be in tables? ;o) lurk -- listening to: background noise http://wiki.workalone.co.uk http://www.xebit.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: Re[2]: [WSG] Table-style admin layouts
At 09:47 on Tuesday, 05 Oct 2004, Peter Goddard wrote: Just because the table contains links to an edit page doesn't need for it to be defined in a form. Surely the solution is to present the information in a table and then style the 'edit' links with css, taking advantage of the querystring. Sure, that makes sense. so we're saying it's okay to have a table with buttons in it, but we shouldn't have a form laid out as a table semantically speaking. I'm not trolling, just looking for best practice guidance. A list of items with edit delete buttons is okay as a table, but the edit page should be a form laid out without tables? ;o) -- listening to: R. Carlos Nakai - Shaman's Call [stopped] http://wiki.workalone.co.uk http://www.xebit.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Unwanted gaps between divs
At 05:14 on Tuesday, 16 Nov 2004, Nick Lo wrote:
By the way it can be solved by adding padding to it's container:
div#content { margin-left: 190px; margin-right: 200px; padding-top: 3pt;
}
However I'm still not clear why.
I'd imagine this might explain:
http://www.complexspiral.com/publications/uncollapsing-margins/
hth
;o)
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Re: [WSG] Avoiding image cut-off through CSS?
At 03:52 on Tuesday, 16 Nov 2004, Chris Stratford wrote: Wow, that is something I didn't realise existed! That is great! Thanks a lot Natalie! - Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] Natalie Buxton wrote: Armit You can force a page break before an image using css. page-break-before: always; Natalie The downside of that is that *every* image will be at the head of a new page. FWIW User agents are supposed to avoid splitting images across pages by default. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Avoiding image cut-off through CSS?
At 11:30 on Tuesday, 16 Nov 2004, Natalie Buxton wrote:
It wont do that unless he puts the CSS in the img {}. You can do it
inline for a specific image, paragraph, whatever, or in a span
specifically for that purpose.
You dont have to specify it globally for all images.
sure, but then you have to know which ones will be split across the
printed page and I got the impression that this wasn't always clear.
I've run aground on this many times with dynamic or data driven sites
where content and image placement isn't known beforehand.
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[WSG] User Preference Script
Hi All, I would love some feedback on a User Preference Script http://www.csscreator.com/generator/userpref.php Reports of support from Mac browser and early IE would be especially useful to me at the moment. Please provide responses Off List unless you think others would benefit from it in some way. Tony Aslett [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.csscreator.com http://www.appcreator.com http://www.multiwebspace.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] User Preference Script
Hi Kornel,
That looks very similar to something I saw not long ago at alistapart.
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/bodyswitchers/
It's a fine solution, but you still need to pre-define each rule in a
stylesheet and there will be browser that don't support the technique.
Tony.
Kornel Lesinski wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 19:34:58 +1000, Tony Aslett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I would love some feedback on a User Preference Script
http://www.csscreator.com/generator/userpref.php
Because Opera is not able to modify stylesheet rules,
I've been looking for a different solution, and I found one -
use multiple classes on body:
body class=smallfont verdana red
body.smallfont {font-size: small;}
body.verdana {font-family: verdana,sans-serif;}
body.red {color: red;}
body.red #something.else {color: red;}
This way you don't need to have lots of alternate stylesheets.
You could even put all such rules in a default stylesheet
and have classic style switcher additionally.
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[WSG] divs don't align
I'm having trouble with http://www.outdoorinsights.com.au appears ok on IE on a pc but the left hand image is about 15px below on Safari and Camino. If I set the margin at -15px, it is ok on Safari Camino but moves up on IE. Any clues? Sampai berjumpa lagi Tony Lim [EMAIL PROTECTED] +61 2 44418668 ph +61 2 44418898 fax 0411052746 mobile P O Box 138 Huskisson NSW 2540 Level 1 51 Owen St Huskisson NSW ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] IT Job Search Engine
Zudora.com today launched an IT job search engine http://www.zudora.com that combines over 20,000 new IT jobs daily from a wide range of employment web sites across the USA. The new search engine provides users with an ability to search for IT related jobs within specific States. -- Cheers and Solidarity, Tony B http://CLNews.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Communicate or Die
Dear Labor and IT supporter, I wanted to draw your attention a new online community called Communicate or Die at http://www.communicateordie.com. Our mission is to build a network of labor activists and technology practitioners to discuss and develop solutions that allow unions to realize the full potential of Internet technology. Based on your membership in the Web Standards Group List serve, I thought you might be interested, hence this e-mail. We're just starting out. Please register and start commenting and contributing if you're interested in becoming a member of the Communicate or Die community. In Solidarity, Tony Budak Communicate or Die http://www.communicateordie.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - educate, agitate, and organize, Tony Budak at Community Labor News www.CLNews.org To subscribe, to the discussion group e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] standards selling points
kevin mcmonagle wrote: Hello, This has been discussed before but i was wondering about new input. I've tendered on a big job and i will be up against a lot of competition. What are some web standards selling points that might get through to a completely uniformed, unsavy client. MACCAWS was ahead of its time and seems to have been forgotten, mores the pity, but it was set up specifically to help web designers in your position. There's a whole Kit of information here: http://www.maccaws.org/kit/ Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards | maccaws.org hth *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] target and accessibility
Designer wrote: Ludicrous! I see the point, obviously, but really!!! not really, you're missing the obvious. the links should be buy book on cooking ISBNx buy book on Shiatsu ISBNx buy book on Vegetarian cooking ISBN etc and the visual styling would be a graphic buy now (using some accessible image replacement technique) and everyone is happy. you the designer can have your visual button, and Google and all the other people that can't see your button get a meaningful list to choose from. think about it... ;o) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Teaching CSS
Cole Kuryakin wrote: Besides a book, are there any on-line, step-by-step “foundation to penthouse” curriculum course that anyone knows about and TRUSTS by experience? Thanks to all for weighing through this windy post; and advance appreciation to all who care to comment. I'm guessing, that as a designer, you're a visual learner, so may I suggest a different offering by Eric Meyer: CSS Web Site Design - Hands On Training. http://tinyurl.com/3yeqyb 60 step by step tutorials, and the accompanying CD has videos. If you, or your designer are more book learners, then Stylin with CSS http://tinyurl.com/2nd2yf is a good read with a designer slant. after that there are dozens more good books on mastering CSS. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Floating Divs Over Flash
John Gribben wrote: Does anyone have any experience floating HTML elements over Flash via absolutely-positioned divs? I know that this is possible with the most up-to-date browsers, but I’m not aware of how wise this is in terms of backward-compatibility. Can anyone point to successful examples of this? http://www.boldfishclient.co.uk/go/flash (uses the UFO embedding method with wmode set to transparent) Browsercam link to screen grabs to see cross browser efficiency: http://www.browsercam.com/public.aspx?proj_id=344019 (Browsercam is still capturing as I type) hth ;o) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Safari now on Windows
James Leslie wrote: Just to add to the confusion... I have winXP SP2 with quicktime installed (previously, not as part of the safari install) and am having no problems at all with it. Fonts all seem to render nicely, even the bug button brings up a bug reporting page for me directly. Me too, worked first time... *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Page Structure
James Jeffery wrote: H1 should be your company name, or logo. Why? shouldn't stuff that appears on every page, maybe in a div id=branding, be of less importance than the subject of the page? I'd be doing: head titleRugby World Cup 2007 Packages - Glory Days/title /head body div id=branding pGlory Daysspantickets, accommodation travel packages for major events throughout the uk,europe and worldwide/span/p div id=content h1Rugby World Cup 2007 Packagesh1 content... /div /body and applying appropriate visual styling to the branding elements. (and I guess we now have both sides of the argument, so debate on...) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Page Structure
Chris Taylor wrote: However that means it's probably not going to be the first heading element on the page, which is frowned upon by some. Can anyone else expand on the reasons for that? I think we need to be careful how we visualise page structure. I prefer the pragmatic headed paper approach, which says that there's a header (branding) on every page, the content, and then a footer (often on every page) using that concept, the heading structure begins with the content, not the branding. can anyone explain why branding should be included in the page heading hierarchy? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Page Structure
Web Man Walking wrote: h1 id=companyGlory Days/h1 h2 id=taglinetickets, accommodation travel packages for major events throughout the uk, europe and worldwide/h2 div id=content h1Rugby World Cup 2007 Packages/h1 /div Would I penalised for something like this? My understanding would be that the first h1 is the ones the search spiders use to determine what the page is about. Hence I don't use headings for branding. why do you want to put strapline and company names in hx's? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Page Structure
James Jeffery wrote: So basically what your trying to say is that branding is the least important part of the page, so place it in a p ? no, I'm saying what the page is about is the most important, so put that in the h1 take a multiple page site with branding on every page - after the first page you're more interested in what the page is about than which company it is. if you're looking for widgets for your foobar then you want to find foobar widget pages, not a specific company... for a while I put all the branding and footer information at the end of the source and then visually displayed it at the head. SEO and semantics are tricky areas, I doubt we'd ever reach consensus, but my view of the web is as a collection of connected pages, rather than web sites as books with pages as chapters. (and it's how the search engines see the web too, in the most part) on that basis the page content is the most important and therefore the semantic structure should follow content, not the book cover. my 2p. ;) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Page Structure
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I tend to agree with James Jeffery on this one. I just checked one of my sites front page and found not a single h1, h2 or h3. Yet many of my key words like 'group health insurance' or 'freedom blue ppo' show that site on Google first page. Oh how I wish I knew how some magic code like h1 would place me on the first page for everything I create. using headings that contain your key phrases are a clear indication to the search engine algorithm that this page is about that keyphrase. if your page is all about Steam engines and steam engine is contained in the page title and a couple of headings, then the page will be ranked higher than a similar page that just contains the words steam engine a similar number of times. page content and structure is just one small part of your SERP factor though, as inbound links, Page freshness and other factors play a large part too. ;o) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Page Structure
Joseph Taylor wrote: this conversation says that I should probably markup pages like: div id=header vcard content=for company name branding / other header info / /div div id=content h1My big page Heading/h1 content / /div Seems pretty straight forward. If the logo needs to be an image, we can make a vcard entry for that. CSS will handle how it looks size-wise etc Thoughts? Add in some skip to links and I think you're onto a winner, as long as the content doesn't get too far down the source. -- Join me: http://wiki.workalone.co.uk/ Engage me: http://www.boldfish.co.uk/portfolio/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Page Structure
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course the branding shouldn't be an h1. Totally disagree. Why? Seriously. Why is the company logo and strap line the most important thing on every page of a web site. isn't the page content more important than the branding? isn't the headline for the page content the most important? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Page Structure
Nick Gleitzman wrote: Exactly. But I still contend that my company name, being most likely more unique than any name of goods or services that I provide, doesn't require as much semantic weight in my markup and it will *still* be easily found by those who already know I exist - but that the strongest weight is given to the name/s and description/s of what I'm offering, because *I* think that's what the majority of searchers will be looking for. +1 and more eloquently put than my feeble attempts! ;) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Font-size 62.5% problem
Paul Collins wrote: The font stays slightly larger than 11px, when I set it to 1.1em. this has worked fine on other sites, so not sure why it isn't working here. Any ideas? check that you haven't set a minimum font size in your browser preferences. ;) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS/IE Link Color Problem - SOLVED
On 4 Aug 2007, at 05:46, Cole Kuryakin wrote:
er-riding user styles??? I've never run into that one before.
Irritating.
Aside from the !important solution or the (as yet untried) focus
solution
that Kepler suggested, does anyone else have an even more elegant
option or
... for my issue ... is this (these) the only ones that'll work?
In the past I have classed the li, rather than the a.
ul#navTopSimpleUL li.active a
{
color: #CC0033;
cursor: default;
text-decoration: none;
}
as it overcomes any pseudo differences.
however I have since stopped having links to the page on the page
they are on (as they go nowhere and do nothing and AIUI are bad
accessibility practice).
now I replace the link with the navigation text wrapped in a span
(programatically) and style the span to match my active/hover needs.
e.g.
ul#navTopSimpleUL li a:focus,
ul#navTopSimpleUL li a:hover,
ul#navTopSimpleUL li.active span
{
color: #CC0033;
cursor: default;
text-decoration: none;
}
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Re: [WSG] CSS/IE Link Color Problem - SOLVED
On 4 Aug 2007, at 08:49, Cole Kuryakin wrote:
Why, however, do you wrap your link text in a span? Are there
standards -
or some other - issues I'm not aware of if you simply border your
landing-page link text with the li's without span elements?
I use the span to apply other styling to the contained text in most
cases.
I'm in the habit of not using horizontal padding, preferring to
margin the contained text and often use borders for horizontal visual
separation, bare text inside a li can't have a margin or a border
and in that instance some other element is required to contain the text.
e.g
li class=activespanhome/span/li
li class=widera href=about.htmabout us/a/li
lia href=consultancy.htmconsultancy/a/li
lia href=training.htmtraining/a/li
lia href=testimonials.htmtestimonials/a/li
lia href=contact.htmcontact us/a/li
li class=lasta href=news.htmnews/a/li
gets styled:
div#nav ul li span,
div#nav ul li a{
color: #FFF;
background-color: #005EB0;
font-size: 0.7em;
font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;
font-weight: bold;
text-decoration: none;
padding: 0 27px 0 26px;
border-right: 1px solid #FFF;
line-height: 2.2;
text-transform: uppercase;
display: block;
}
div#nav ul li.last span,
div#nav ul li.last a{
border: none;
}
div#nav ul li.active span,
div#nav ul li a:hover{
color: #bfdfed;
}
if you're just styling the color of the text within the li, then I
see no reason at all to use span.
YMMV
(P.S. I know the above code has accessibility issues of font-size,
but I'm not always at liberty to surmount that with clients, and I
also know that it should be ul#nav, rather than wrapping it in a div,
but there you go and there are shorthand opportunities for font too,
but hey)
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Re: [WSG] setting fontsize in body
On 9 Aug 2007, at 07:27, Felix Miata wrote: On 2007/08/07 20:38 (GMT+0100) Alastair Campbell apparently typed: You could take Jacob Neilsons finding that small fonts were the most popular 'mistake' as proof that people don't know how to change their settings Or you could take it as proof that web designers as a group have perfect vision, and fail to understand normal web users as a group do not have perfect vision, resulting in fonts on web pages just right for most web designers and too small for most others. or it could be, that a lot of designers don't have perfect eyesight, wear glasses and when sites were designed for 640x480 wanted to cram as much message into the above the fold area as they could so reduced the font size to do so. line length and readability have as much to do with the problem as font-size. I have poor eyesight and a huge screen, yet I still set my code editor to a bitmapped font of 9pt so I can see a decent amount of code at a time, the windows on my screen are generally no more than 800px wide. Millions of people cannot participate fully online because most Web sites are built for people with perfect vision and the manual dexterity needed to operate a mouse. http://xhtml.com/en/future/fixing-the-web-1/ millions of people cannot participate fully online because they don't have Internet Access. However, I do agree we shouldn't be preventing users adjusting font sizes. you did once post a useful method for setting a default on body that allowed the use of ems, but didn't change the users browser defaults, i can't remember what it was, though, was it set the body font-size to medium? or just use 100%. IE being broken requires some setting on body font-size or em sizing will break. what's the best pragmatic approach? given that we can't (commercially) just let the browsers dictate font and font size (as times new roman at default doesn't give you many words per line and *is* hard to read) how best to set a font-size that doesn't prevent users from choosing something else. my view has been that those that need something special, generally know how to do it and those that don't either don't care or can't be bothered. e.g I find white text on a dark background difficult to read, so rarely spend time on sites with a dark theme. Others I know find black text on white harder... flexibility and choice are the key surely? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Font sizing: top down or bottom up
On 5 Sep 2007, at 15:21, Felix Miata wrote: Who made this a fact? Just because web designers, a group with the following characteristics (creating a bias among them) to distinguish it from an average member of the general public: 1-detail oriented (more comfortable than average with small things) 2-use large computer displays 3-leave their browsers set to the defaults that they believe most people use (untweaked to suit their own personal preferences) 4-young (have not yet reached age of deteriorating eyesight) think it so, doesn't make it so. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Proof_by_assertion right back at you. I'm 50 with imperfect vision, and still a web designer. (I do have a big screen with unchanged browser settings I'll grant you) A lot of the web designers I know are not young and most of them wear glasses. so proof by assertion works both ways. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Font sizing: top down or bottom up
On 5 Sep 2007, at 20:15, Felix Miata wrote: There's already proof in the results - the web is overwhelmed by sites that set fonts smaller than the defaults - and the consequence that normal web users don't like it. http://www.useit.com/alertbox/designmistakes.html Is it possible that the last few years of preaching about font sizes *has* made a difference? I don't remember the last time I visited a mainstream site and found the fonts smaller than normal. can you point to some popular sites (I mean mainstream popular sites) where the fonts are (a) non-resizable and (b) too small I think most of us *get it*. leave the default alone so as not to interfere with the minority of users that have adjusted their browser font size and then adjust to what seems to be the norm, or what the client asks for. (it's not 16px AFAICT) why is it, I ask in all honesty, that the comments pages of the BBC site aren't full of complaints that the fonts are unreadable? (they care about Accessibility too - http://www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/) (FYI, my big screen is for usable screen space, not font size - I code in TextMate using a bitmap font at 9pt and the screen resolution is 2560x1600 and I'm viewing it from about arms length with my reading glasses on.) When was the last time normal users were asked about font sizes? How normal are Jacobs Alertbox subscribers and just how many of them responded to his quiz two years ago? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Font sizing: top down or bottom up
On 5 Sep 2007, at 22:04, Felix Miata wrote: On 2007/09/05 21:06 (GMT+0100) Tony Crockford apparently typed: I don't remember the last time I visited a mainstream site and found the fonts smaller than normal. can you point to some popular sites (I mean mainstream popular sites) where the fonts are (a) non-resizable and (b) too small BBC News seems to be still as described on http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ SS/bbcSS.html (body is still 'font:normal 13px Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, MS sans serif;'). Which brings me back to the question: Who says it's too small? which you don't seem to be able to answer in an objective way. I'm suggesting that normal users don't find the BBC site too small, or they would have complained and the BBC, being responsible and interested, would have done something about it. ;o) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Font sizing: top down or bottom up
On 6 Sep 2007, at 17:39, Rick Lecoat wrote: The issue of whether an unchanged default setting, except when left as it is by deliberate choice, should be considered a 'user preference' in the context of most people have their preferred size set to 16px has not really been decided for me, but maybe it's like trying to prove a negative. default settings aren't user preferences, they are manufacturer preferences. only when a user changes those defaults do they become the preference of the user. surely? and I'm not just referring to browsers, I'm talking generally. I believe we're talking this thing round in circles, but if *most* users leave the defaults as they are and most designers have set the fonts on most sites smaller than the defaults then the norm for *most* users is smaller than default. we're in a catch 22 as I see it. if the browser manufacturers make the defaults smaller, then a lot of web sites break. If you don't adjust the font size at all it looks bigger than expected to *most* users - and if the client is looking at their site compared to everyone else they also expect it to look similar, not have massive fonts. perhaps the wise and good on his list would make it blindingly obvious which is the best and most pragmatic way to set font-size to conform to the norm - i.e. smaller than the default *without* messing up the minority of web users who have changed the defaults in their browser. which I think is the crux of the matter, since in the absence of hard evidence all our feelings on who has set what and what they think to the norm is pointless. I'd like a foolproof way of pleasing my client, without upsetting anyone. is there a way? ;) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Font sizing: top down or bottom up
On 6 Sep 2007, at 18:30, Felix Miata wrote: On 2007/09/06 17:58 (GMT+0100) Tony Crockford apparently typed: - and if the client is looking at their site compared to everyone else they also expect it to look similar, not have massive fonts. You're the expert. Your clientele is a limited universe you can try to educate. You could offer it a look at some authoritative sites that both exhibit respect and recommend respect. but sadly, in my world, they don't. The majority is what they want to *be* like. I'm still looking for a best practice solution to reducing font size to the *norm* and not causing problems when I do so. have you any suggestions on that front? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Font sizing: top down or bottom up
On 6 Sep 2007, at 20:32, dwain wrote: Tony Crockford wrote: I'm still looking for a best practice solution to reducing font size to the *norm* and not causing problems when I do so. have you any suggestions on that front? in web design and the way the viewer can set font limits, i don't think there is a *norm*. setting your font size to 100% in the body and then using ems or percentages to shrink font size is what i would recommend. That's what I've been doing. what are the downsides of this approach? who do they affect? how are they affected. (I'm slightly hazy on the whole user set browser defaults thing, there seem to be a number of options including application preferences and user stylesheets. and a combination of minimum fonts, ignore all fonts and larger/smaller text settings in IE) so, what happens if a user has their default font set larger than the browser default in this case? conversely what happens if they have set their default smaller than the manufacturer shipped settings? Maybe Felix explained it, but I didn't understand it, can someone just make it simple, so I can judge the merit of this pragmatism? tia *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Font sizing: top down or bottom up
On 7 Sep 2007, at 00:39, Felix Miata wrote: On 2007/09/06 20:42 (GMT+0100) Tony Crockford apparently typed: so, what happens if a user has their default font set larger than the browser default in this case? Can't happen. Browser default == user default. :-p You *know* I meant manufacturer browser default... so what happens if a user has altered the browser default to a larger size. does body: 100% mean that all other measurements are then derived from the users, larger font setting? if so am I safe setting body: 100% and then setting text elements using ems? if i check in a range of sizes (IE smallest - IE largest) on a range of screens and the design doesn't break - is that okay? I'm sure it is. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Font sizing: top down or bottom up
On 7 Sep 2007, at 00:03, Felix Miata wrote:
Don't what? Don't understand your instruction? Don't believe your
instruction? Don't let you try to instruct them? Don't look at the
good example sites you offer them? ? ? ?
yes to all of those.
most real world clients I am aware of are being driven by different
desires than accessibility.
I have been an accessibility evangalist for many years, but the real
world is a wrld compromise and conformity. they believe what they
want to believe, the see what they see and what feels right to them
is what they want.
Do they understand that it's good business to treat customers
right, which on the WWW means big, easy-to-read text?
http://www.lighthouse.org/accessibility/top-10/
I have trouble reading that site.
first off, with a window set to 1024x768 on my 30 dell on OS X this
line:
6. The fastest growing market segment is Americans age 50+. In fact,
every seven
is over seven inches long, which makes it hard to scan - each word
becomes discrete letters if you understand me...
if I remove my reading glasses, the text is so large and contrasty
that I get double vision blurring. my glasses correct my astigmatism.
so in my case I want text that's readable with my glasses on, not
text sized so large I can't scan it.
I wonder how many of these studies took into account that most web
users with poor vision, use some means of corrective device?
body {font-size: medium !important;}
That simplicity cannot work on sites where fonts are set on
particular elements, or via class ids or names. Anything much
beyond that one rule is beyond the capability of any besides web
design professionals accustomed to
routine use of CSS.
I've been using CSS for seven years or more and I'm trying to adopt
best practice in a pragmatic way, which means I can't deliver my
clients sites with excessively large fonts - they are trying to
design interfaces that look attractive and create income for their
business. I'm trying to ensure the sites they get are as accessible
as possible, we have to meet somewhere in the middle.
and talking of UI, why are we fighting for 16px fonts in browsers
when most UI text is much smaller?
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Re: [WSG] magazine
On 20 Sep 2007, at 21:28, Rick Lecoat wrote: On 20/9/07 (20:57) Rafael said: I'm looking for a good offline (printed version) magazine to stay tune with the latest news about Web 2.0, Javascript, Ajax, CSS and Web Standarts. Do you have any ideas? I get Web Designer (Imagine Publishing) and .Net (Future Publishing). I find both to be really good sources of information. Much of their content is way beyond my knowledge, which I take to be a good sign -- magazines I can grow into, so to speak. I'm not familiar with Web Designer, but I know that a fair number of the .Net journos frequent lists like this and then interview people for *stuff* to print. I suspect the latest news about your list of topics is right here on the web in blogs and RSS feeds, rather than some over-priced fancy- schmancy print mag like .Net has become... (IMHO of course!) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Form styling
On 26 Sep 2007, at 18:15, Tom Livingston wrote: Does anyone have a favorite resource for dealing with forms. how about: http://www.accessify.com/tools-and-wizards/accessibility-tools/form- builder/default.php?type=css http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk/archives/stylish_accessible_forms.html and the one I usually base mine on: http://www.aplus.co.yu/lab/forms/?css=1 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Adobe Photoshop and flash With Jaws
On 27 Sep 2007, at 09:48, James Jeffery wrote: And i also said a blind person can create graphics, but only at a certain level. there are also degrees of sight impairment. I think we should all review our attitudes to sight and sightedness before assuming that vision impairment and the use of a screen reader automatically means totally blind. shades of grey, not Black and White thinking ;o) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard
On 4 Oct 2007, at 04:33, Jim Davies wrote: Speaking only of businesses int he United States, no government entity should be telling a private business what it must do WHAT? with that one line you have just summarised all that is strange about America. Private business is above the law? They can do whatever they like? so it's okay if a private business murders people? what about paying taxes? the government tells them to do that, are you saying that a private business can decide not to pay tax? sheesh. whatever country we live in, we're all on the same planet and laws are generally made by the people for the people to protect the people... I just woke up to an inbox full of misguided bigotry and confused logic that makes me wonder why I'm on this list. ;( *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard
On 4 Oct 2007, at 08:33, Rimantas Liubertas wrote: Speaking only of businesses int he United States, no government entity should be telling a private business what it must do WHAT? with that one line you have just summarised all that is strange about America. Private business is above the law? They can do whatever they like? so it's okay if a private business murders people? what about paying taxes? the government tells them to do that, are you saying that a private business can decide not to pay tax? I think these were mentioned in the part of the post you did not include in your quote... Interesting quoting tactics. well, no, they weren't specifically mentioned. what was said was my quote above and this (which you might be referring to): Bottom line is the government has no business sticking its nose in a private business as long as health and safety issues are not the issue. It doesn't even need to know how much money a business makes except we are forced to report it for our out of control IRS requirements. to which I strongly disagree, but that's not the point, and I'm not sure why you tackled me on it, when the issue is about if an anti discrimination law should be enforced - I think it should, and Jim Davies disagrees, that's all I'm saying - what are you saying? ;) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard
On 4 Oct 2007, at 17:27, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I try to ensure my professional work is accessible, but I am far from being persuaded that legislation of this nature can ever be effective, without also being a burden on smaller sites, particularly those that are no longer actively maintained. tongue-in-cheek Maybe we *should* legislate to get rid of sites that are no longer actively maintained? /tongue-in-cheek ;) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Cost of Accessibility
On 5 Oct 2007, at 06:02, Christie Mason wrote: No one has a right to shop at Target. I think that's the real point of disagreement in this whole discussion. As a society we have allowed the concept of ownership and commerce[1] and in order to enable those concepts to work we have rules about how ownership works and how commerce works, e.g what is theft, and who can you sell what to[2]. We also have rules about how people should be treated, e.g women should be treated the same as men, children should be cared for not abused, and you shouldn't treat some different because they're not the same as you. so if we have a rule that says you can't provide a service to one group of people and not another, then yes, everyone does have a *right* to shop at Target. explain to me why that's not true and I might be able to understand the rest of your argument. Tony. [1] we don't have finders-keepers and it's mine, I saw it first or give it to me or I'll pull your hair as social rules outside the playground (and I suspect our educators are doing their best to change those rules too...) [2] gunsol, alchohol, fireworks, drugs etc all have legislation to control their commerce. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Cost of Accessibility
On 5 Oct 2007, at 08:15, Christie Mason wrote: There are many ways to change a culture, but legislating is not one of them. what you appear to be missing is that when all other attempts fail, legislation and enforcement of legislation is the only socially acceptable way left. Target chose not to change to meet the needs of a group of disadvantaged people who asked nicely for some simple to implement changes that would enable them to use the Target web site, those disadvantaged people have now chosen to test the legislation that prevents them being discriminated against in a case against a high profile company in the hope that by highlighting the issues of discrimination, that other people will be persuaded enough for a culture change. without legislation how would *you* ensure fair treatment for all? at one point in history women were second class citizens and it took a whole heap of direct action and eventual legislation to get to where we are today... ;) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Cost of Accessibility
On 5 Oct 2007, at 10:03, Geoff Pack wrote: Tony Crockford wrote: we don't have finders-keepers and it's mine, I saw it first or give it to me or I'll pull your hair as social rules outside the playground (and I suspect our educators are doing their best to change those rules too...) Well, actually we do. What do you think happened when the Europeans got to the new world? that's history and I'm speaking of the now. my grandfathers generation put cripples on the street as beggars... ;o) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
On 17 Oct 2007, at 04:56, Nick Cowie wrote: I was experimenting with HTML over flash, and while param name=wmode value=transparent / works great on Windows. The flash plugin could not get the order right for OsX or *nix, no matter what I tried (source order, z-index etc). It was purely random 50% of the time the flash would appear over the HTML and the other 50% of the time the HTML would appear over the flash file. I was using it on a footer and could just scroll up and down the page a few times to get different results. in my experience wmode transparent doesn't work for any *nix browser - nothing I tried seems to let *nix browsers do anything other than render flash movies on top of everything else... OS X seemed okay mind... YMMV my test: www.boldfishclient.co.uk/go/flash the browsercam results: http://www.browsercam.com/public.aspx?proj_id=383238 hth *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
On 17 Oct 2007, at 08:01, Michael Kear wrote: Nick I'm away from my Mac machine for a couple of weeks .. Do you think you (or someone else with a mac) could do me a favour and have a look at the page in question and tell me if the problem is fixed or not on your mac? I see the dropdown over the flash on my Mac Pro in Safari and Firefox, but in firefox the font specified for the drop downs is way too small and pixellates... to become unreadable. I'll try and get screenshots to you. hth *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Web Standards In Colleges and Universities
On 20 Oct 2007, at 10:18, James Jeffery wrote: Should i use my essay and examples and take it to the head of the college? I really don't know how to go about this, but its definatly a problem. Who set the syllabus? Assuming it's the college administration, then they are the people to discuss your concerns with. don't assume the tutor is at fault. have a private chat with him, if he truly isn't aware of web standards, then you can tell him that you will be speaking to the college administration about the syllabus being taught and its shortcomings. if he is aware, but is bound by the syllabus, then you may find an ally in your quest. either way, have the private chat, challenging him in front of class, is bound to create a defensive stance from him. if the syllabus is wrong (as it appears to be) work your way through the college administration, explaining that the methods being taught are wrong and using this as support for your case: http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/government_it/web_guidelines/ consultations.aspx In order to meet European objectives for inclusive e-government and so that the UK public sector meets its obligations with regards to disability legislation, we have proposed that all government websites must meet Level Double-A of the W3C guidelines by December 2008. Government websites are strongly recommended to develop an accessibility policy to aid the planning and procurement of inclusive websites. This includes building a business case, analysing user needs, developing an accessibility test plan and procuring accessible content authoring tools. The guidance covers some of the design solutions to common problems faced by users but is mainly aimed at strategic managers and project managers to assist with planning and procurement. try not to be adversarial, you'll get a better response with a can you explain why we are learning outdated methods approach. hth and good luck... *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?
On 29 Oct 2007, at 15:46, Simon Cockayne wrote: Hi, I am sure I read that CSS's display: none has a detrimental on SEO. Is this true* or did I dream it? *To clarify...I am keen to know if it is true that there is a detrimental impact...not whether it is true that I read it or not. Google specifically caution against hiding text with CSS: http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=66353 is that what you meant? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?
On 29 Oct 2007, at 17:43, James Jeffery wrote: I highly doubt that presentational styles will effect SEO. When you use display:none you are not removing the content from the source, you are just hiding it from users viewing the web page. If you was to remove the element from the source using DOM that would be different. The whole point is that you leave it in the source for the web spiders to index and remove it from plain view for the visitor, so they don't see your multiple keyword spam read the google guidelines linked to below. Google specifically caution against hiding text with CSS: http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=66353 is that what you meant? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Site content not showing up in Firefox on Leopard
On 20 Nov 2007, at 14:53, Christian Montoya wrote: Here is a screenshot of a page from my site in Firefox 2.0.0.9 on Leopard 10.5.1: http://www.flickr.com/photos/thephotoherald/2049540131/ I have no idea why so much text is not appearing at all. Could someone with Leopard look into this for me? Thanks in advance. just compared them in Safari and Firefox on Leopard and it looks the same - i.e. no missing text. did get a report of problems here: plia href=http://www.christianmontoya.com/2007/11/19/how- familiar/ title=How familiarHow familiar/a:/p pa href=http://www.uniqlo.com/grid/;UNIQLO_GRID/a reminds me very muchly of my latest a href=http://apps.facebook.com/ mob_art/Facebook app/a, which people are finally playing with. Maybe tonight I'll add multiple color options. Also, a href=http://apps.facebook.com/businessiq/ Business IQ/a is much more playable now./p p/li/p to do with nesting I guess.. but it looks fine in that it doesn't match your screenie. ;) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Disabling Fonts in Font Stacks
On 29 Nov 2007, at 10:46, James Leslie wrote: Thanks everyone for your responses to this. I might give the stylish extension a try or just stick to removing them by hand in the web developer extension. Sorry, bit late to the party, but FontExplorer X allows you to activate and de-activate fonts, might be worth a try, I seem to recall having to close and re-open the browser... http://www.linotype.com/fontexplorerX? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] css issues
On 14 Dec 2007, at 17:32, Michael Horowitz wrote:
I am wondering if there is an issue in how I am redefining
.module-content
{
margin: 5px 0 20px 0;
color: #FF;
font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, sans-serif;
font-size: medium;
line-height: 150%;
text-align: left;
}
I can't change this code I can only append new css to the end of the
file where I add
.module-content
{
margin: 0px 0 0px 0;
color: #d22539;
}
Could I be doing something wrong here?
coming in late, but when I'm puzzled about things in CSS I add borders
to the elements to see where they are.
I suspect you are removing the margins on the div okay, but that's not
what's controlling the link widths - that's in the defaults, and might
all come down to the widths you have set on the links..
;)
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Re: [WSG] css issues
On 14 Dec 2007, at 18:06, Michael Horowitz wrote: Figured it out. You can ignore this question. no fair! you're supposed to tell us what it was! ;) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Colors for web design
On 14 Dec 2007, at 19:50, Michael Horowitz wrote: Anyone know a good online resource or book that discusses how to decide the best color combinations for use on the web. there's a lot of good information here: http://www.tigercolor.com/color-lab/Default.htm (see the resources section) (and if you're on windows I can vouch for the ColorImpact Software - I used it a lot before switching to OS X, and I'm still looking for something as nice) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] strange css behavior
On 18 Dec 2007, at 23:32, Michael Horowitz wrote: People may remember I'm working on an issue where when I click on one link on my site http://theatomicconservative.typepad.com/ other links such as Subscribe to this blogs feed turn red as if they were visited. Doing more testing I started changing the page without clicking on the link (ie putting the address directly in the browser) and the problem still occurs. I'm wondering if this gives anyone an idea what I should look at. what browser are you using for testing? all the links i've visited are red in Safari ? you know you need to clear your cache for the links to revert to *unvisited* before you can test this behaviour, and you know that the order for decalring the link states is crucial too? perhaps the issue is related to your multiple declaration of link state I assumeyou upgraded to Pro Level so you can properly customise the CSS? why not look at an open source blog solution and some cheap web hosting, you're making life difficult for yourself trying to bend something to a shape it's not designed for! ;o) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Marking up company logo
Hi Chris, I've always done that too, it's always seemed to make the most sense here too. I've seen many sites that use image tags instead and do concede the point that without css, the logo could still be considered as worthy showing. I wonder if there would be a good middle ground with this. Cheers, Tony -Original Message- From: Chris Pearce [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 17:49:21 To:wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Marking up company logo Hi, For a few years now I’ve been marking up a clients company logo as a h1. I just wanted to get an idea of how many people actually do this compared to using a html image tag? I believe a h1 is more semantically correct however I’d be interested in seeing what other people on this list think. Cheers *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] 100% height over existing page
Hmm, What about just making it the size of the viewport, and stopping scrolling? Maybe an overflow: hidden on the body? Cheers, Tony -Original Message- From: Seona Bellamy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 16:48:48 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] 100% height over existing page That's already what I'm doing. Not the problem here, though. The issue isn't whether the overlay and disclaimer appear - I have that bit working just fine. The issue is making the overlay extend all the way to the bottom of the page if the page is longer than the viewport. Cheers, Seona. 2008/7/31 Luke Hoggett [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Doesn't have to be a separate divert page, you can just use the session variable to decided whether the overlay element is displayed on each page regards Luke Seona Bellamy wrote: What, and divert them to the agreement page if they'rve not agreed? Hmm... not sure that I'll get the go-ahead to do that. We're working to some fairly tight design requirements. I've already got it saving the session variable once they agree, so that they only get bothered once. Cheers, Seona. 2008/7/31 Luke Hoggett [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Depending on what/whether you're using anything server side, just set a session variable that records whether the person has agreed to the terms, do this across every page and no worries for Google or any other entry that doesn't come from the front page. regards Luke *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] 100% height over existing page
But that doesn't stop you from adding more css in the markup for this feature, to override the default styles. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:09:30 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] 100% height over existing page no JS - no decision ;) 2008/7/31 Tony McNulty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hmm, What about just making it the size of the viewport, and stopping scrolling? Maybe an overflow: hidden on the body? Cheers, Tony -Original Message- From: Seona Bellamy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 16:48:48 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] 100% height over existing page That's already what I'm doing. Not the problem here, though. The issue isn't whether the overlay and disclaimer appear - I have that bit working just fine. The issue is making the overlay extend all the way to the bottom of the page if the page is longer than the viewport. Cheers, Seona. 2008/7/31 Luke Hoggett [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Doesn't have to be a separate divert page, you can just use the session variable to decided whether the overlay element is displayed on each page regards Luke Seona Bellamy wrote: What, and divert them to the agreement page if they'rve not agreed? Hmm... not sure that I'll get the go-ahead to do that. We're working to some fairly tight design requirements. I've already got it saving the session variable once they agree, so that they only get bothered once. Cheers, Seona. 2008/7/31 Luke Hoggett [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Depending on what/whether you're using anything server side, just set a session variable that records whether the person has agreed to the terms, do this across every page and no worries for Google or any other entry that doesn't come from the front page. regards Luke *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] form from the 7th level of hell
That could have been off list too :-D --Original Message-- From: Mike Brown Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org ReplyTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: 7 Aug 2008 20:56 Subject: Re: [WSG] form from the 7th level of hell kevin mcmonagle wrote: joseph i keep my brightness at 0, and thought it matched. thanks for the tip Joseph Taylor wrote: Kevin, If I may make a recommendation, adjust the background color of your cells to match the bottom color of your background gradients so when text gets enlarged it still looks smooth inside the cell rather than having the graphic cut off. Kevin Honestly, there is no reason to send a simple thanks to the *whole* list. Just a reply to the person you're thanking would be appropriate and wouldn't increase the email overload for thousands of others on this list. Thank you. Mike *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names
Hi James, While not a good practice, there may be the ulterior motive of the teacher to get you used to conforming to other people's standards. In the workplace, you will have to do this too - you may find yourself in similar situations, where you have to maintain legacy systems, where converted the mass of old code/markup isn't practical. It's more likely that the teacher is stuck in the nineties, but it's a good exercise nonetheless. Definitely recommend that he chooses better practices in your submission or end of course feedback though, but don't rebel :-D Cheers, Tony -Original Message- From: James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:38:39 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Uppercase Tag Names I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase text for tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because otherwise I will lose a mark. I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I didn't really want to argue with him because he assumes I know nothing. I do know that the source code has become difficult to read using that method. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Browser loading images issue
Hi all I am looking for tenders for 1. search engine sites both. .com.au and .com 2. .com.au classifieds site 3. News site both .com and .com.au Anyone interested on quoting please contact me Thanks Tony Paterson Tel: +61 3 5981 4457 This email (including all attachments) may contain personal information and is intended solely for the named addressee. It is confidential and may be subject to legal or other professional privilege. Any confidentiality or privilege is not waived or lost because this email has been sent to you by mistake. If you have received it in error, please let us know by reply email, delete it from your system and destroy any copies. This email is also subject to copyright. No part of it should be reproduced, adapted or communicated without the written consent of the copyright owner. Any personal information in this email must be handled in accordance with the Privacy Act 1988 (Cth). Emails may be interfered with, may contain computer viruses or other defects and may not be successfully replicated on other systems. We give no warranties in relation to these matters. If you have any doubts about the authenticity of an email purportedly sent by us, please contact us immediately. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kristine Cummins Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 5:55 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Browser loading images issue Hi all, I'm still having this issue as the client is contacting about images simply not showing up but on refresh, they do. Frustrating as I don't know how to solve this issue. The page is http://www.cpwrehab.com/employee_listing.html Stylesheet is: http://www.cpwrehab.com/styles.css Thanks, Kristine -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kristine Cummins Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 11:28 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Browser loading images issue I noticed that sometimes some images will not load upon visiting a page while others on the page will, but when I hit the browser's refresh button, the image will load. This was happening in IE, but no other browser. Anyone have any ideas how to fix this issue? Thanks, Kristine *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Web governance
Ladies and Gents I am seeking JV partners for some of our company's websites If you have any interest please call or email me Cheers Tony Paterson Tel. 03 5981 4457 Our other great sites now include:- www.DirectoryAustralia.com- Can you be found?- are you listed? Why Not it's free! http://www.ozengine.com/ www.Postcodes.com.au easy to find postcodes and cities and towns. http://www.sportaustralia.com.au/ www.SportAustralia.com.au where every local sporting club can have a webpage for free and there are more to sites to choose from cricket, football, netball and more http://www.cars.com.au/ www.Classifieds.com.au free to advertise (new site coming soon) accommodationasia.com world wide at the best prices www.Cars.com.au where the best and motoring clubs can earn $$$ also see site for details http://www.e-cards.com.au/ www.e-cards.com.au send that special someone a card it's free and more to come Alliances Business Partner? See http://www.e-info.com.au/ www.e-info.com.au (joint ventures) send request to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew R Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 4:14 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Web governance I realise the list is very much about nuts and bolt of standards. So this might not be the right place for this posting and might be deemed to be 'off topic'. If it is please ignore! I work in a large (lumbering) Australian federal government agency. My colleges in the web publishing section see developing standards compliant web sites as normal professional practice. However, some other parts of the organisation, mainly 'traditional' developers in the IT section, simply don't get it. The outcome of this is some of the organisation's web based applications are riddled with problems caused by poor coding practices. These manifest themselves as accessibility issues, difficulties with cross browser compatibility, and significant bottle necks applying updates to branding and presentation. The problems are steadily growing as the organisation builds more and more web interfaces to various applications and systems. To date the web section has taken the approach of trying to work with the developers in the IT area to help them understand the techniques and benefits web standards. However, this has been problematic because there is a lack of more formal mechanisms to enforce compliances. This brings me on to my question for the group. I'm currently looking for web channel governance models suitable for applying in a large public sector organisation that is moving towards significant delivery of services on-line. Can anyone give me some pointers, do have something that works in your organsiation, etc? The few models that I have found are geared at managing inter/intra net sites with a strong emphasis on managing content publishing and how this is used as a communication/marketing tool. For example http://egovau.blogspot.com/2008/07/drawing-lines-effectively-structuring.ht ml http://egovau.blogspot.com/2008/07/drawing-lines-effectively-structuring.htm l. This approach tends to place the Marketing sections as the owner and avoids engagement with an organisation's IT area. The problem is online services delivery is much bigger then the traditional 'communications' business activities, they cut across many parts of the organisation and require complex integration with other systems. Help! Andrew _ Get the best wallpapers on the Web - FREE. Click http://wallpapers.msn.com/?ocid=%5bB001MSN42A0716B%5d here! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest
Just for that I think we should keep him on! -Original Message- From: Brett Patterson inspiron.patters...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:35:16 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest Please remove this user from the group ASAP! -- Brett P. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Daniel Rowan danielpaulro...@googlemail.com wrote: Stop emailling me you fucktards i unsubscribed leave me alone! On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:40 PM, TapirDesigns desi...@tapirdesigns.co.ukwrote: I am currently away until 5th August but will get back to you as soon as possible on my return. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5
On 13 Aug 2010, at 18:51, Ted Drake wrote: You need to build a site to learn HTML5 semantics, it's like the old days of hybrid table-based layouts. 7 years ago you really needed to ditch tables to truly understand CSS. Are you suggesting that to switch to HTML5 we should avoid the use of div entirely, using only section, article etc to chunk up the content? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] RE: Fonts in MS Publisher compared to onlineRe:
On 15 Sep 2010, at 03:20, Luke Hoggett wrote: Check out Google Font Directory http://code.google.com/webfonts TypeKit http://typekit.com/ which can be used through Google Font Directory and Cufón, and @font-face with packs from font squirrel: Cufón: http://github.com/sorccu/cufon/wiki/About and the generator: http://cufon.shoqolate.com/generate/ @font-face: http://www.miltonbayer.com/font-face/ http://www.fontsquirrel.com/ -- Tony Crockford to...@boldfish.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] adobe tools that works well with jaws?
On 24 Aug 2011, at 01:09, Jay Tanna wrote: You are doing an online course and yet you don't know how to find out what is included in the Web design suite! How about going to Adobe's website and do your own research? You never know this could help you fine tune your research skills. Do we also have to give you the Adobe's website address? I hope not! hth Maybe you'd like to try blindfolded? The clue for the intent of the question is in the Subject. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] adobe tools that works well with jaws?
From: Adam Martin ajmartin...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 08:32:24 +0100 I guess we don't go to boldfish.co.uk for compassion!!! Sent from my iPhone On 24 Aug 2011, at 07:16, Tony Crockford to...@boldfish.co.uk wrote: On 24 Aug 2011, at 01:09, Jay Tanna wrote: You are doing an online course and yet you don't know how to find out wha t is included in the Web design suite! How about going to Adobe's website a nd do your own research? You never know this could help you fine tune your r esearch skills. Do we also have to give you the Adobe's website address? I hope not! hth Maybe you'd like to try blindfolded? The clue for the intent of the question is in the Subject. Take care who you admonish please, I was trying to point out to Jay that telling someone with visual impairment to look harder was a little unfair. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Picture Login
Hi Marvin, I'll have a look Tony Lim Media Marketing Department Hobie Cat Australasia 11 Erina Road Huskisson NSW 2540 P + 61 2 44418 400 ext:116 F + 61 2 44418 444 m +61 438 646 243 t...@hobiecat.com.aumailto:t...@hobiecat.com.au www.hobiecat.com.auhttp://www.hobiecat.com.au/ www.hobiefishing.com.auhttp://www.hobiefishing.com.au/ www.hobiesup.com.auhttp://www.hobiesup.com.au/ Confidentiality Noticehttp://hobiecat.com.au/support/confidentialitynotice.html On 20/01/2012, at 2:07 PM, Marvin Hunkin wrote: Hi. when i registered for this group a few years ago, did i upload a picture of my self. is this allowed. looking for a picture of my self, and do not have it on my computer any more. have searched on google a picture of marvin hunkin. need this now, as learning php, and the current exercises i doing, says i need a picture to upload. if any one can help out, or knows where i can find a picture of my self. let me know. i am totally blind, my parents do not have a digital camera, and hard to take the picture on their mobile, and have internet and e-mail disabled, as on a prepaid card. Marvin. -- Join My Blind-Aid group at : http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/Blind-Aid To join this group , send a blank message to: blind-aid-subscr...@yahoogroups.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Re: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
This book could be useful as well. We plan on buying it next week ourselves. http://www.amazon.com/Communicating-Design-Developing-Documentation-Planning /dp/0321392353/ref=cm_taf_title_featured?ie=UTF8tag=tellafriend-20 -- Regards, Tony Chester | Web Director OnWired Next Generation Web Solutions Local Number: 919.647.9403 Mobile: 919.434.6651 FAX: 630.214.0810 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: www.OnWired.net On 4/8/07 8:18 PM, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: From: Lee Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 15:28:53 +0100 Subject: Client Side Development Process Hi all I wonder if anyone can offer some advice. I've recently landed a new development position within a very credible digital agency as part of their client side development team. One of our things to do is develop a rock solid development process we work through for every project. Traditionally we don't get our hand dirty until a client signs off what the design team have produced, however we are going to try to change this and get involved from an earlier point in the project. Would anyone like to offer any advice on setting up this process, and any advice on things to take into consideration for inclusion of the process. It'd be great to compile some documentation, and share it with the rest of the community... We're starting from a blank canvas so any advice appreciated. Kind Regards Lee Powell From: Jermayn Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 08:42:17 +0800 Subject: Re: [WSG] Client Side Development Process The best suggestion I can come up with is an ebook on grayscreen prototyping Hear are my thoughts etc about it: http://germworks.net/blog/2007/03/28/clients-vs-developer-wars-review/ On 4/7/07, Lee Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all I wonder if anyone can offer some advice. I've recently landed a new development position within a very credible digital agency as part of their client side development team. One of our things to do is develop a rock solid development process we work through for every project. Traditionally we don't get our hand dirty until a client signs off what the design team have produced, however we are going to try to change this and get involved from an earlier point in the project. Would anyone like to offer any advice on setting up this process, and any advice on things to take into consideration for inclusion of the process. It'd be great to compile some documentation, and share it with the rest of the community... We're starting from a blank canvas so any advice appreciated. Kind Regards Lee Powell *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
