Re: [WSG] introducing a prompt to download or open a pdf
Reply Chris, Macs do have a right click (right-click being a geenral Microsoft / PC term) Holding down control or the new mouse Apple releases with a right click option. William Chris Price wrote: I would use the file name (or description) as a hyperlink. Its good to have the file size so the visitor knows what they're dealing with. I link to a php page for pdf downloads. The header of the page ensures that the file is served as a pdf not html which means that an option is presented asking the user whether they want to save or view the pdf. This way you're fixing how the file is to be served rather than letting the browser decide. The same page can be used for any format (Word, Excel etc.). The file type is put in the link as a query. I have seen many sites where the link opens to a new window but I am then presented with the same save/view option and left with an empty window and its all very messy. BTW Macs don't have a right click. Paul Minty wrote: I'd recommend displaying with a PDF icon, the text 'PDF' and a file size (in Kb or Mb). I suggest setting the target to a new window, then the user can righ click to save. If you want to go further, I'd suggest having two links labelled 'open' and 'save'. You could put in a pop-up with the option; but I think that this would break the expected behaviour more. You could also detect the connection speed and suggest a download time; but this may not give you much ROI. Kind Regards *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Site check requested
Hi Rick, I loaded up your page, facinated by your achievement for a semantic structure, it looks good, however I'm getting validation errors for the DOC type, the img tag and trimming empty on 2 span tags, Did you get the same? William Rick Lecoat wrote: Hi; I'm recreating a table-based site that I did a few years back, rebuilding it (hopefully) to web standards and making it as accessible as I can. Currently it's one static page and the links largely don't go anywhere, but I would appreciate feedback from the list before I proceed with more pages. http://sandbox.sharkattack.co.uk/novaRebuild/working.html It's really my first stab at a semantic markup, fully-CSS, accessible site; it's also my first ever attempt at an elastic layout, so be merciful. Many thanks! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] skip to content: care of accessibility causing usability
I dont seem to get any of the flicking effects that everyone is talking about. I'm using Firefox 2.0.0.8 William Gunlaug Sørtun wrote: Tee G. Peng wrote: teesworks.com/ Been working on this site in the last 2 days, I find that I am getting so annoyed by the surprise' everytime the hover pops up. If I, the site builder, find it annoying, what will the users find ? As a user I find that kind of visual flicker highly annoying. I am beginning to think this is causing a usability issue and is killing all other usable elements that I work so hard to try to get them right. A 'Skip to content' link may have its uses, but I don't see much need for one in that design - too few links to skip (at least in that dev page). Basic accessibility is too hard to sell anyway, and I don't see the point in annoying clients and/or the majority of users with such minor issues when there are so many other practical issues to take care of and spend dev-time on. Personally I don't provide skip to (whatever) links in a design unless there's a client-request for them, and then I style them without any flicker effects. regards Georg *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] skip to content: care of accessibility causing usability
on the topic of skip links and semantic styling, and to add to the mix of usability, accessibility and getting into the habit of best practice, Accessibility is not just for the impaired, it is also for people who access through different devices where CSS has not been styled to suite what is being looked at. I know that mobile isn't a big thing right now, however it is gaining pace and there are more internet enabled mobile devices than there are desktop computers. food for thought William Tee G. Peng wrote: On Oct 28, 2007, at 3:56 AM, Stuart Foulstone wrote: But the point is that, this accessibility feature is for people who can't use a mouse - i.e. they cannot click anywhere. Ah yah right A good point you have made. I am a 'mouse' user, and I do find skip to (content/navigation) useful for me. Now you pointed out ( John and other did too but I was blind :) ), makes me realized I was mainly viewing this feature from my own' benefit. Glad that I asked. Sometimes one has to show one's ignorance so one can learn something important :) tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?
I agree with you Dave, Google is not about to ban you, however if this is used in combination with other known black hat tactics, then you will. Google will check your CSS but once again, if you are using this technique to excess, then you should be worried. There was talk via a different email thread, and someone raised the same SEO concern, people have been using hidden and the CSS off-page described regularly for accessibility, and there haven't been any stories to date on those using these techniques legitimately and been banned by a search engine. William Dave Woods wrote: As far as I'm aware, it's not something that Google will automatically ban a site for anyway but if it is being used for black hat tactics then the site is open to being reported by anyone (possibly a competitor) which Google may then do a manual check of and ban the site if they deem the site to be breaking their terms of use. If display: none; is being used for a legitimate purpose then I wouldn't worry about it but as I mentioned earlier, it can have a negative impact on accessibility so as with most things, it depends how and why you're using this method. Thanks Dave - - - - - - - - - - http://www.dave-woods.co.uk On 30/10/2007, Alexander Gounder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, The Fact is that SEOs use this CSS feature (display:none) for cloaking which is a Black Hat SEO technique. Further the whole idea of you showing something(h1-3 tags filled with Keywords) to Google or any Search bot and hiding these from you end user speaks very bad about your intentions... Instead if your using this for some other purpose and the effect of this can be viewed by the end user then its not considered cloaking and google is quite intelligent to know that but the same can't be said about other search engines. So you need to decide on this depending on where your traffic is coming from. Thanks Alexander, Web Designer and SEO in Mumbai, India http://www.ecreeds.com On 10/29/07, Simon Cockayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I am sure I read that CSS's display: none has a detrimental on SEO. Is this true* or did I dream it? *To clarify...I am keen to know if it is true that there is a detrimental impact...not whether it is true that I read it or not. Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Special site check invitation (COMPLETE)
Also a thank you for informing everyone that it is completed. This tends not to happen a lot and people (like myself) see the message a few days later and find that the site is taken down. thanks, William Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: Hello all, Thank you to all who volunteered. I owe you one :) I did actually extend the invitation to three people -- more the merrier, right? Cheers. Mike *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hello
I'd also add that the 'Web 2.0' as a word / phrase and phenomena is a way of describing the internet and new design concepts to those who make decisions on it but don't really have any idea about it. e.g. Marketing Managers whom have developers and designers telling them we need to do this and this to the web site and the manager not seeing the pointwhen it looks like their brochure and they do not get many complaints. Oh yeah, and the hits are steady or up! Like others have said a buzz word, but I think a necessary one. William libwebdev wrote: Kat wrote: Is Web 2.0 larger than the web itself? I don't know, but it's certainly *beyond* the web. Librarians around the world have been flapping their arms and gums about Library 2.0 for ages, which, imo, is even more ridiculous than Web 2.0. lib. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] form select help needed
Hi Bob, not being on my main work station, I'll give it a try. the select tag has a set width. There is a chance that IE is restricting the list to that set width and using this set width as the view port of the option list. Look it up. From experience i also notice that IE (IE6 in particular) can have cross-browser CSS conflicts around the padding and margins being set together and with a value of 0. It may be nothing but a place to investigate. Try a search. I also noticed how the list opened upwards for me, as opposed to a 'drop down' combo box. It seems to work fine in FireFox for me. Also found validation error on the input tag on the select list form not close in xhtml format. Also is the javascript orientation for the list the best option. Accessibility issues can rise. A 'Go' button could assist. I'm sure there are better ideas from other members. William Bob Schwartz wrote: If you go to http://www.bobstestplace.com/aahid/ using Safari on the Mac and click on either of the drop down form menus in the right column you will see the option list open below the form menu select in a window that is wide enough to view the entire name of each option. This seems to be default behavior with Safari. If you do the same with FireFox, some clipping occurs. If you do the same with IE6, a lot of clipping occurs. The question: Any way to get the other browsers (and especially IE6) to display like, or nearly like (I would be happy if IE6 was at least like FF), Safari? Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS
Michael, My understanding is that they have different styles targeted for the different handsets and that is the other justification for carrying out such an exercise. William Michael MD wrote: I agree, this is not web standards. However remember they could be following web standards with their CSS version. and I don't think it is just in the UK, it is every where for Vodafone. Which not only defies any effort you made to put the thing together for presentation standards as well. I think it is their solution to controlling the user experience on handset side of things when someone accesses mobile web. Why don't they let the community sought it out? It seems now that if standards are to be effective in the mobile access space, there is now another hump to get an open standard. are they doing this for all sites on all types of phones or only changing it if the phone's browser can't handle the original format/doctype/css/etc The latter is nothing new... Google has been doing it for years for pages linked from mobile search results allowing even ancient phones to browse pages they would not otherwise be able to look at. (ie making them accessible!) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] flash navigation - Devils advocate
I know that there are a lot of free javascript libraries available for you to use without having to go to the extent of programming your own javascript features. things like dhtml goodies and scriptaculous, I'm sure the group has some other options but this is getting off topic now. a quick search would find a few for you. William kevin mcmonagle wrote: Thank you matijs thats what i was wondering, you make a good point about using javascript but im not an expert in using it. Matijs wrote: There isn't really a way for a search engine to see how many times a link has been clicked. It is however possible for a search engine to see / count how many links are pointing to a page (either internally or externally), thereby measuring its 'popularity'. up.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE
I would have to agree with the others here. Coding for / with FF is easier because of the debugging tools (i.e. Firebug, Web Developer Toolbar, etc) Otherwise I have atleast 4 other browsers open, all the popular IE's (5.5, 6, 7 soon 8) and Opera. I do find that Opera can give a good idea of what might be happening with Safari if your a PC user, but do check from time to time, like after major fixes and development stages. William [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is how I work, but mainly for pragmatic reasons: Better JavaScript de-bugging tools in FireFox. Better CSS support, therefore fewer problems out of the box, and better stylesheet analysis tools. Finally, the one good reason: anything that needs to be fixed for IE can be done with conditional comments, no such luck if you do things the other way around. Regards, Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David McKinnon Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:55 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE Hi, For a while now, I've been operating on the principle Code for Firefox, hack for IE. That is, writing CSS for the most standards-compliant browser, and then making adjustments for non-standard behaviour. I said this in a meeting last week to argue a point and my boss said who says?. I could have said me, but maybe that's not a good enough answer. Somewhere some years ago I read this, or heard someone at a conference or something and it got stuck in my head. Is this the way anyone works? Is it the best way to work? Does anyone know where I got this idea from? Book? Blog? A bit of googling this afternoon turned up not very much. Thanks, David *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE
I started learning hacks, and now don't use them at all. I find that if I'm attempting to make the site cross browser, try not to make the CSS too complicated. William David Storey wrote: If coding for the most standards compliant browser, then hack for IE, then you wouldn't code for FF first. Maybe third. It however comes with the best developer tools on the market, which makes it easier to developer for, and that comes from someone that is working as the product manager for Opera Dragonfly. We are working to catch up with and surpass the likes of Firebug and friends, but we are not there yet. It is probably best in my opinion to develop while checking in at least two of the major none-IE/Trident browsers engines (preferably three), especially after making major changes, just to make sure you are not relying on a browser bug or a vendor specific property. Then make it work for IE using conditional comments, as they are much less frail than css hacks and browser sniffing. With CC's you can override the properties IE gets incorrect or doesn't support by using the CSS cascade, and you never have to worry about them affecting the other browsers. On 1 Sep 2008, at 12:55, David McKinnon wrote: Hi, For a while now, I've been operating on the principle Code for Firefox, hack for IE. That is, writing CSS for the most standards-compliant browser, and then making adjustments for non-standard behaviour. I said this in a meeting last week to argue a point and my boss said who says?. I could have said me, but maybe that's not a good enough answer. Somewhere some years ago I read this, or heard someone at a conference or something and it got stuck in my head. Is this the way anyone works? Is it the best way to work? Does anyone know where I got this idea from? Book? Blog? A bit of googling this afternoon turned up not very much. Thanks, David *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** David Storey Chief Web Opener, Product Manager Opera Dragonfly, Consumer Product Manager Opera Core, W3C Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group member Consumer Product Management Developer Relations Opera Software ASA Oslo, Norway Mobile: +47 94 22 02 32 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Blog: http://my.opera.com/dstorey *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE
I thought that was the case but does it render the same. FF renders quite differently I find across PC, Mac and Lynx. William Nathan de Vries wrote: On Mon, 2008-09-01 at 22:09 +1000, willdonovan wrote: I do find that Opera can give a good idea of what might be happening with Safari if your a PC user... Safari has been available for Windows for a little while now. -- Nathan de Vries *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] suckerfish problem - ie6
Hi Kevin, I have the FF issue as well. Fore me: FF2.17 on a PC. William kevin mcmonagle wrote: hi, Thats strange eBiz, The dropdowns are working over the flash in ff3 mac for me. Anyway im getting that or a very similar problem in safari so will def try your suggestion tomorrow. Actually the hover states are not even working in safari though so it might be another issue alltogether. George that ie solution you put together works very nice - thanks again. Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd wrote: FF3, it only happens on the home page where the flash is, if you set your flash container to z-index 1 (assuming your using SWFobject) and you ul to z-index 99 then it will work in all browsers. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] WCAG2 in govt
Hi Anthony, We're not directly doing anything at this stage. However would love to get ideas on puhsing the new implementation through and link with a sub set of internal web page publishing standards that we currently use across federal government. William Andrew Boyd wrote: On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 11:21 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi there - was wondering if there's anyone on the list who works in government and is considering WCAG2. We're looking at this in NZ, and I'd be keen to have a chat about your experiences (and offer my own). cheers Anthony, federal/commonwealth government here in Australia is currently considering this - I have not been directly involved (only in an advisory capacity) but I can say that there is a lot of interest in deciding to WCAG2 or not. Cheers, Andrew -- --- Andrew Boyd http://onblogging.com.au *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
