Re: [WSG] box-shadow is causing black borders in IE9

2012-04-20 Thread Al Sparber

On 4/20/2012 10:18 PM, tee wrote:


And a google search showed that I am not the only one having this bizzarre 
behavior in IE9.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10039577/ie9-strange-black-border


It seems, from your report and the forum link you provided, that it is a 
problem in Mac virtual machines. I just tried the page on 3 different 
computers running Windows 7 and IE9 natively and, like Jon, it's fine.


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Re: [WSG] Possibly the best CSS framework ever?

2012-03-31 Thread Al Sparber

On 3/31/2012 11:27 PM, Russ Weakley wrote:

You have probably seen all sorts of CSS frameworks over the years...
but is this the best CSS framework ever?
http://morecss.org/


That was priceless and provided a much-needed laugh. Thanks for posting it.

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[WSG] A Holiday Treat from PVII

2011-12-21 Thread Al Sparber

Happy Holidays from PVII

Save time this holiday season with a free productivity booster from PVII


Equal Height CSS Columns

Learn how to make your CSS columns automatically adjust to the height of 
the tallest column in just a few minutes. This free productivity booster 
includes a tutorial, and a bonus 3-column CSS layout all decked out for 
the holidays with rounded corners and inset shadows!



Instead of using background images, CSS hacks, or CSS that is not yet 
supported by all browsers, PVII Equal Height Columns uses modern DOM 
Script to work its magic.



Go to Tutorial:

http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/css/pvii_columns/index.htm


Key Features

Supports dynamic content height

If the height of any column ever changes, PVII Equal Height Columns will 
make all necessary adjustments—instantly. The script monitors your page 
every few milliseconds to see if the height of any column needs 
adjustment. Your column height will always be perfect. If your page 
includes a panel widget (like an accordion) that causes column height to 
change when you move from panel to panel, the system will adapt to the 
new height seamlessly.



Deploying PVII Equal Height Columns

Deployment is as easy as linking the PVII Equal Height Column script and 
assigning a class to a set of columns.



Nested Groupings

You can deploy the PVII Equal Height Columns script on your outer column 
structure, as well as column structures nested inside.



Best Regards,

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Re: [WSG] A Holiday Treat from PVII

2011-12-21 Thread Al Sparber

On 12/21/2011 5:54 PM, Thierry Koblentz wrote:

Looking at the demo page, it looks like authors would be better using a 
faux-columns technique which would also  remove the need for polling.

Or is there a better reason to go the JS route?


It's easier on the designer and allows for quick changes that would 
otherwise require redoing images. Don't get me wrong, at various times 
we still use faux columns, negative padding, and a few other means to 
achieve EHC. This is just one more tool and, like other tools, needs to 
be fitted to the right project.


Happy Holidays to you and yours :-)


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Re: [WSG] z-index bug in webkit?

2011-07-21 Thread Al Sparber

On 7/21/2011 10:10 PM, tee wrote:

I have never experienced z-index issue before in webkit browsers and this one 
really got me. It's been two days still haven't been able to solve.

Visit from Chorme or Safari, the slideshow has a transparent layer for texts. I 
do believe the z-indx order is correct because it works for IE6/7.

http://bit.ly/qJoJcy


Actually, it does not work well in any modern browser. Perhaps IE7 is 
its sweet spot :-)



Looking at the page, I would say that z-index might be the least of your 
concerns.


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Re: [WSG] a more cross-browser consistent box shadow effect?

2011-05-09 Thread Al Sparber

On 5/10/2011 1:04 AM, tee wrote:

Please go to this site and choose the box shadow,
http://css3generator.com/

In IE9, no shadow for the left/top but right/bottom only

#container {-webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 3px #ccc;
-moz-box-shadow: 0 0 3px #ccc;
box-shadow: 0 0 3px #ccc;}

My test shows that 0 0 6px is the closer I can get to make left/top  show in 
IE9, problem is, this will not work so well for Opera for the result I wanted.


0 0 3px cc works fine for me in IE9 on that generator page.


And a near future problem: I was hoping maybe in 6 months time it'll be safe to 
drop the vendor prefixes for a number of CSS3 elements including box-shadow. 
Should I do so I can never get the closer result across browsers. Am I right 
that if the vendor prefixes existed, browsers that can handle CSS3 native will 
still treat their prefixes?


IE9 and Firefox 4 work without prefix. Webkit should be coming around soon.

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Re: [WSG] IE hasLayout - the long and short of it

2011-01-05 Thread Al Sparber

On 1/6/2011 1:21 AM, David Hucklesby wrote:

Here's my attempt to put a gradient behind some headings. To get
Microsoft's gradient filter to work, I must give the headers layout.
This causes the headings to expand in width in IE6, and to shrink in IE7:

http://thewebwiz.net/temp/has-layout-long-and-short/

Any solution, even a scripting one, will be most gratefully welcome.
Thank you for your time.


Hi David,

Don't have the time to go through all of your CSS, but here is a quick 
example that seems to work fine in IE5.5, IE6 and IE7:


http://www.projectseven.com/csslab/css3/gradients/quickie.htm

Here is a more complex gradient implementation that works fine down to 
IE5.5:


http://www.projectseven.com/products/tools/tpm2/demos/page2.htm


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Re: [WSG] Touch screens

2010-11-15 Thread Al Sparber

On 11/15/2010 2:10 PM, designer wrote:

Do any of you guys have experience with touch screen designing?

I looked at an iPAD today, with a view to buying, and I was horrified when I 
looked at a site of mine that used a spry dropdown menu. It worked sometimes 
and not others. Is that the norm? - do I have to redesign? If so, what's the 
best way?

You know the sort of thing I want to hear.


I believe the latest version of spry has incorporated some of the 
techniques we pioneered (for Dreamweaver menu system plugins). I'm not 
sure though. If you want to get a feel for what it takes to make a 
drop-down menu work in touch devices, this tutorial might be helpful:


http://www.projectseven.com/products/menusystems/pmm2/ug-examples/accessible/index.htm


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Re: [WSG] Touch screens

2010-11-15 Thread Al Sparber

On 11/15/2010 9:52 PM, Michael MD wrote:


Does anyone know of any good emulation software for testing for those of us
who don't yet own a touch screen device?
(perhaps making use of a laptop touchpad?)


Emulation software is never going to be 100% reliable for testing. An 
iPod Touch will give you the same interface for web browsing as an 
iPhone or iPad, while being less expensive than either and not requiring 
a phone account. It will connect to any WiFi network.



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Re: [WSG] A simple IE and JS detection method?

2010-10-30 Thread Al Sparber

On 10/30/2010 11:58 AM, David Hucklesby wrote:

On 10/29/10 3:22 PM, G.Sørtun wrote:

On 29.10.2010 23:33, David Hucklesby wrote:

Perhaps you know of a browser-safe filter for IE8?


Don't know about safe, but maybe you can find what you need here...
http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/styles/target-browser.css



Thank you, Georg. Your valuable comments in that file actually convinced
me to stay with the Paul Irish CCs method. It just seems safer, as
well as relatively easy to understand. After all, this:

.ie8 .hacked-element {...}

seems to me clearer than

@media all {
html:lang(en) body .hacked-element {...}
}

:)


Indeed it is. There is nothing wrong about using CCs - absolutely 
nothing. They have been a marvelous solution medium for handling 
Microsoft browser bugs for years. People who obsess against their use 
are usually just grappling to find another obtuse way to add more 
complexity to CSS. Perhaps it's therapeutic :-)


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Re: [WSG] A simple IE and JS detection method?

2010-10-30 Thread Al Sparber


On 10/30/2010 3:29 PM, Thierry Koblentz wrote:


Add more complexity? Really? I can always remember the syntax for the two or
three CSS filters I use, while I'm never 100% sure how to properly write
CCs.


I simply expressed an opinion, as you did. Readers can choose to agree 
or disagree with either, as hundreds have done before us :-)


That's what makes the field democratic, rather than dictatorial.

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Re: [WSG] CSS rollovers for images?

2010-10-20 Thread Al Sparber

From: Patrick H. Lauke re...@splintered.co.uk

On 20/10/2010 10:44, cat soul wrote:

Yes, and while we're on the topic of things that won't work on phones
and iPadsis there anything else we need to know about that also
won't play nice with those two handheld platforms?


A gentle reminder that iDevices are not the only platform that has touch 
interfaces, and that Mobile Safari is not the only browser on devices 
with touch interfaces.


Interestingly enough, the old problems of hover/mouse based interactions 
that we've been preaching against for ages with regards to (keyboard) 
accessibility have now reappeared in terms of touchscreen interfaces, 
where hovering doesn't work (reliably - some devices have weird 
heuristics where a click can be interpreted as a hover in certain 
conditions).


Touch devices can be served targeted CSS via media queries. Just something to 
keep in mind :-)

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Re: [WSG] Long documents

2010-10-16 Thread Al Sparber

On 10/16/10 6:19 PM, grant_malcolm_bai...@westnet.com.au wrote:

Hello,

Is there any standard (official or otherwise) that limits the length
of single web pages?

I edit an online journal which contains articles of up to 7000 words.
Currently each article resides on a single web page which the viewer
must scroll to read. Some of the articles are 10-20 'screens' in length.

If anyone could clarify whether there is a standard and, if so, how
such documents should be presented, I would be grateful. If you want
to look at the journal I'm talking about see www.baileyandireland.com.


I wouldn't change a thing. You could split the articles into x-number of pages with page links at the bottom, but text loads very 
quickly and unless you limit a page to a single paragraph or two, people are invariably going to need to scroll so you may as well 
have the entire article on the page. Makes printing easy, too.


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Re: [WSG] So this is *the* good accessible keyboard supported dropdown menu?

2010-10-14 Thread Al Sparber

From: Thierry Koblentz thierry.koble...@gmail.com

What is the solution you're talking about?
That link you posted does not tell us much about your own simplistic,
unsophisticated way, nor what is your different view of menu
Accessibility.


It must be so simple it went over your head :-)

I'm not here to argue, debate, or press my views. Consider my post a statement about a system that works for us and our customers. 
Perhaps someone else would be interested in engaging in a debate or raising other accessibility solutions - but mine was a one-way 
post and I am only replying to you to clarify that. Ours works for us and for our testers - and that's all that matters to us. Read 
it and understand or simply present or use another solution.


Cheers and adios.

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Re: [WSG] AAA Accessibility and validation

2010-01-12 Thread Al Sparber

From: c...@fagandesign.com.au
I guess my question is: Do IE-related CSS hacks cause a document to
fail AAA (or A/AA for that matter) Accessibility compliance?


Hi Christian,

If you mean things like zoom or even proprietary -Moz or -KHTML 
properties... no, that doesn't affect accessibility. Guidelines are 
subjective in that it's up to the site's owner to say whether or not his 
site is accessible after testing it against the various guidelines. The W3 
validator is the issue. It should have been programmed years ago to ignore 
most, if not all, proprietary properties.


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Re: [WSG] [WSG Announce] Some links for light reading (22/12/09)

2009-12-23 Thread Al Sparber

From: Erickson, Kevin (DOE) kevin.erick...@doe.virginia.gov

You didn't give up did you Russ??? There is always hope if we choose to
see it right?
Please keep sending your links and don't let the bad apples spoil the
whole bunch :)

-

I think Russ needs to thoroughly read each of the articles he is considering 
for inclusion in his (one-way?) announcement and simply make sure that the 
subject is something that every subscriber to this list agrees with. Sounds 
simple enough to me.


Merry Christmas (to all who will celebrate it).

and loosen up :-)

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Re: [WSG] expandable menu

2009-12-01 Thread Al Sparber

From: Nancy Johnson njohnso...@gmail.com

I have a question on Expandable menus. I am working on a rather large
site, which html and CSS were delivered along with some minimal
jquery.  Our task is to put a Vignette CMS behind it and am working
with Vignette Developers.

There is a vertical left-hand navigation the only the CSS was
delivered. The Vignette Developer wants a javascript expandable and
collapse menu so when he adds the Vignette portlets, it will
automatically expand and contract at will. It also needs to be 508
compliant.

He would like to use an accordion collapsible menu which he has, but I
wanted to try to find an expandable/collapsible menu.

I found 
http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200705/accessible_expanding_and_collapsing_menu/

but this one needs to onclick to expand and another onclick to
contract.  He needs it to automatically contract when the focus is
removed.  It uses a toggle. I am not strong enough in JS to make
adjustments.

Any suggestions?  Has anyone used an accordion expandable menu for the
left hand navigation?


I always hate to post examples of our stuff here because it's not free, but 
perhaps this will give you some ideas - or perhaps you can ask jQuery's 
author if similar functionality can be had with his free script:


http://www.projectseven.com/products/tools/accordion2/examples-options/cat01-02.htm

Then again, I also could have misread exactly what you want.

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Re: [WSG] Tree structure

2009-05-07 Thread Al Sparber

Lionel Bethancourt wrote:

Hi:
I think Project7 (http://www.projectseven.com/) had something like
this up, some 8~9 yrs ago.
Not so much different.


http://www.projectseven.com/products/menusystems/tmm2/09multicolor.htm

It's a Dreamweaver extension, though, and it's not free.

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Re: [WSG] Image Replacement and Accessabilty

2009-04-16 Thread Al Sparber

From: Gary Barber gary.barber...@gmail.com

Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote:

On 16/4/09 05:56, Gary Barber wrote:

Now it is

h#{

left: -px;

}

that had issues with screen readers.


Interesting. Not in my experience.


this may have improved with the browsers and readers (as happens), but 
when in was popular, years ago, I do distinctly remember running into this 
issue time and time again with testing.  hence why text-indent is the 
preferred, if not the best all round option.


Mind you we shouldn't develop to the latest in software as a good number 
of people with accessibility issues do not have the latest equipment.


Hi Gary,

We test extensively with JAWS, current at v10, but we have test notes back 
to v5. Sending content off-screen via position or indent was never an issue. 
Perhaps you thinking of display or visibility.


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Re: [WSG] add to favorites? - ADMIN - KEEP IT POLITE PLEASE

2009-03-25 Thread Al Sparber

From: Rick Faircloth r...@whitestonemedia.com


huggroup/hug

Sorry that tag isn't to standard... ;o)


Read Russ's DOCTYPE :-)


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Re: [WSG] Chrome now higher traffic than IE

2009-03-03 Thread Al Sparber

From: Nick Cowie cowie.n...@gmail.com


Hi

It is the State Library of WA.

Looking further into our stats, over one third of our visitors come
from the 80 public access machines around the building, which accounts
for the heavy bias of IE7 on windows. Making these stats
unrepresentative,  sorry I did not expect that many when I start using
them.

An equal number are from within WA, with a large number of visitors
from the education (schools and universities) and government sectors
as well as local libraries.

The remaining 30% are evenly split between the rest of Australia and
the rest of the world.


Thanks, Nick.


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Re: [WSG] Javascript Accessibility

2009-03-02 Thread Al Sparber

On 3/2/09 2:02 AM, Mathew Robertson mat...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
Its been possible to do ARIA style accessibility since about 1995 - its 
just

now that people are starting to care.


But ARIA, as deployed by companies like Yahoo with its ARIA Menu [1] is very 
nice, but with JavaScript disabled there is a not-so-nice blank page.


[1] http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/menu/menuwaiaria_source.html

Getting worked up over stuff like, for the average developer/designer is 
going to be as illogical and incongruous as ever.


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Re: [WSG] Chrome now higher traffic than IE

2009-03-02 Thread Al Sparber

From: Nick Cowie cowie.n...@gmail.com


OK here are some other interesting stats from another major library
site, IE7 rules and Chrome is  0.5%

Browser  Website IE7/IE6
Internet Explorer 86.88% (80/20)
Firefox 9.29% 
Safari   2.17%
Chrome0.47% 
Opera   0.27%


Fascinating.

Can you provide some demographic context to this library site?

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Re: [WSG] Chrome now higher traffic than IE

2009-03-02 Thread Al Sparber

From: Nick Cowie cowie.n...@gmail.com


OK here are some other interesting stats from another major library
site, IE7 rules and Chrome is  0.5%

Browser  Website IE7/IE6
Internet Explorer 86.88% (80/20)
Firefox 9.29% 
Safari   2.17%
Chrome0.47% 
Opera   0.27%


Fascinating.

Can you provide some demographic context to this library site?

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Re: [WSG] DHTML Menus

2009-02-26 Thread Al Sparber

From: David Dorward da...@dorward.me.uk

Al Sparber wrote:
... then don't use an ancient DHTML menu that carries your links in a 
script file. Instead, use a modern menu that employs list-based markup 
and a script that visually and interactively enhances that markup, 
progressively and unobtrusively. Today's options in that area are many.
Splurging every significant link in the site in a set of lists at the top 
of every page probably isn't ideal for the speed of the site, or its 
usability in browsers without JS (who wants to scroll through four screens 
of links on each page of a site)?


Linking to category index pages is probably a better approach most of the 
time.


I agree wholeheartedly. In the case of menu scripts we write, this is how 
we'd like to see folks who use our scripts deploy them:

http://www.projectseven.com/products/menusystems/pmm2/ug-examples/accessible/index.htm

It's like those alcoholic beverage commercials where they end with a note to 
drink responsibly :-)


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Re: [WSG] DHTML Menus

2009-02-25 Thread Al Sparber

From: Chris Dimmock chris.dimm...@gmail.com


Q. What is the percentage of

population that does not have javascript enabled?


A. 100% of search engine spiders.

So if you don't want your site fully spidered.


... then don't use an ancient DHTML menu that carries your links in a script 
file. Instead, use a modern menu that employs list-based markup and a script 
that visually and interactively enhances that markup, progressively and 
unobtrusively. Today's options in that area are many.


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com






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Re: [WSG] Safari Beta 4

2009-02-25 Thread Al Sparber

From: Todd Budnikas to...@missiondata.com


according to Mr. Andrew Lyle:
Safari 4 is the first web browser to pass the web standards Acid 3
test which demonstrates how well a browser adheres to CSS, javascript,
XML and SVG.

So, i'd say it's handling them pretty well :)

http://acid3.acidtests.org/


Smoke and mirrors.

document.ready (a staple of modern DOM Scripting) does not wait for external 
CSS or CSS written in external scripts and is the only modern browser to do 
this. Log on to the Safari bug list and you'll see a bunch of 
double-talkers. Another point is it's not Safari (and Apple by implication), 
it's an open source rendering engine. Apple has contributed several nice 
shades of gray, though :-)


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
The Finest Dreamweaver Menus | Galleries | Widgets
http://www.projectseven.com/go/pop
The Ultimate DW Menu System






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Re: [WSG] DHTML Menus

2009-02-17 Thread Al Sparber

From: Kristine Cummins des...@kristinecummins.com


I've recently seen some arguments against the use of DHTML menus for
accessibility issues. How much is this an issue.. What is the percentage 
of
population that does not have javascript enabled? Any other thoughts on 
the

topic?


My thoughts have always leaned towards using them as an enhanced form of 
navigation that supplements a well-designed site, while not requiring that 
they be used as the sole means of navigation. Making this decision 
eliminates the need for Rube Goldberg-esque attempts at providing keyboard 
support and other means that try to emulate OS UI conventions, while always 
falling short. I would also recommend against using so-called pure CSS 
multi-level menus, such as Suckerfish as they are often more of an 
accessibility and usability problem than anything else.


A visual illustration would be this mini test site:
http://www.projectseven.com/products/menusystems/pmm2/ug-examples/accessible/index.htm


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
The Finest Dreamweaver Menus | Galleries | Widgets
http://www.projectseven.com/go/pop
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Re: [WSG] Dropmenu accessibility and layout problem IE6

2008-12-12 Thread Al Sparber

Henrik Madsen wrote:

Seeking input and layout assistance (IE6, what else).

I am considering using a Son of Suckerfish dropmenu for one item in my
main nav bar.

It is accessible to screenreaders but how - if it's even possible –
can it be made keyboard accessible?

For example, tab to the item in the menu  hit another key(?) to open
the dropmenu  tab to chosen submenu item  hit enter.

http://htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/


Having a hierarchical menu operate via the keyboard is, in my opinion, not 
the most accessible approach. This simple example page might provide some 
insight into how to apprach the accessibility of a dropdown or flyout menu:


http://www.projectseven.com/products/menusystems/pmm2/ug-examples/accessible/

--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Fully Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets
http://www.projectseven.com/go/Elevators




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Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon???

2008-09-04 Thread Al Sparber

From: Adam Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon???


Hey guys... it is great that talk about accessibility and chrome has been 
raised - but I do think that we need to wait until it is out of beta.

---

I think it might be in beta in perpetuity - sort of like g-mail and Adobe 
Spry. My guess is it protects them from litigation. I would be very 
surprised to ever see a shipping release.


That said, I'm not sure what this all has to do with standards :-)

--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Fully Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets
http://www.projectseven.com/go/Elevators




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Re: [WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE

2008-09-01 Thread Al Sparber

From: willdonovan [EMAIL PROTECTED]


I thought that was the case but does it render the same.

FF renders quite differently I find across PC, Mac and Lynx.


Safari does have some bugs (what browser doesn't?) but, in my experience, 
the largest area of concern for certain types of layouts, is in how 
differently Safari renders text. Its font-smoothing marches to a much 
different drummer :-) A case in point would be a floated menu list without a 
defined width for each LI (or width set in ems). The list will be 
signifantly wider in Safari.


As for the original question, it's usually better to code to standards. 
Addressing IE can be easy or hard, depending on experience level. After a 
while IE bugs become second nature... resulting in a hack as you go type 
of workflow.


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Fully Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets
http://www.projectseven.com/go/Elevators




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Re: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not

2008-08-01 Thread Al Sparber

From: Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Interesting this works

select style= font-size: 8px  name=cruiseline

but this does not

select class=small name=month

.small  {
   font-size:8x;
}


8x is a typo?

--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets
Lightshow Magic




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Re: [WSG] Extra white line on the top of my list

2008-08-01 Thread Al Sparber

From: Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I a dealing with a different issue.  I am just having above my menu list a 
time barely visable white line occurring.  Site XHTML and CSS both 
validate.  Any ideas what to look for.  If you want to look it is at 
horowitzfamily.net.


#mainNav{
   position: relative;
   top: 17px;
}
#mainNav ul a.menu {
  position: relative;
  bottom: 5px;
}

In terms of CSS only (I can't see your markup), the properties cited above 
could be likely candidates. I won't ask you why you are positioning like 
that as it would be better to see a live test page.


Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Lightshow Magic



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Re: [WSG] XHTML Strict and scrollable page content

2008-07-27 Thread Al Sparber

From: Bas V [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I need to scroll a php/mysql generated list of text with url's within a page 
whilst using up-down arrows rather then a scrollbar.
It needs however to be XHTML Strict valid and that is where my problem 
starts...


A non-Strict example of how it  exactly has to look and work:
http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex11/scrollc2.htm

Does anyone know of if this is possible at all using Strict and how it can 
be done?

--

Sure. J-Query will enable you to build one yourself or, if you use 
Dreamweaver and have a budget, I know this will work:

http://www.projectseven.com/products/tools/vscroller/testing/strict/

..and it has more features for accessibility and usability then are 
possible with many of the libraries.


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Fully Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets



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Re: [WSG] XHTML Strict and scrollable page content

2008-07-26 Thread Al Sparber

From: Bas V [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I need to scroll a php/mysql generated list of text with url's within a page 
whilst using up-down arrows rather then a scrollbar.
It needs however to be XHTML Strict valid and that is where my problem 
starts...


A non-Strict example of how it  exactly has to look and work:
http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex11/scrollc2.htm

Does anyone know of if this is possible at all using Strict and how it can 
be done?

--

Sure. J-Query will enable you to build one yourself or, if you use 
Dreamweaver and have a budget, I know this will work:

http://www.projectseven.com/products/tools/vscroller/testing/strict/

...and it has more features for accessibility and usability then are 
possible with many of the libraries.


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Fully Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets



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Re: [WSG] Image gallery layout

2008-07-07 Thread Al Sparber

Good morning

My client wants her image galleries to look the same (if possible) as on
her Power Point Presentation. These images (in PPP) are positioned
absolutely ie a certain cm measurement  from top left in each case.  The
images are of paintings and are NOT  of  uniform size so I am working
with different thumbnail sizes.  I have made them a uniform  maximum
150px high but of course some are a lot wider and do not reach 150px
vertically.

http://www.westernwebdesign.com.au/sarwon/slightly.html

CSS is ul#img

I have tried giving them ALL a uniform height 150px  regardless of width
- see bottom 4 images - but of course I had to add a new bit of CSS -
ul#img2 with a much wider ul#img2 li.


You could constrain the thumbnails you see on the page to a certain 
consistent dimension, using height and width or using overflow hidden and 
then show the thumbnail in its natural aspect ration on hover. That can be 
done with pure CSS. Additionally, you could something like Lightbox 2 to add 
a bit of pizazz while eliminating the popup windows. If you are a 
Dreamweaver user, we will be releasing a fully automated presentation 
framework in a week or so. Here is a live preview of the output:


http://www.projectseven.com/products/staging/lightshow2/demo_01.htm

--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Fully Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets
http://www.projectseven.com/go/Elevators




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Re: [WSG] Image gallery layout

2008-07-07 Thread Al Sparber

From: Al Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Good morning

My client wants her image galleries to look the same (if possible) as on
her Power Point Presentation. These images (in PPP) are positioned
absolutely ie a certain cm measurement  from top left in each case.  The
images are of paintings and are NOT  of  uniform size so I am working
with different thumbnail sizes.  I have made them a uniform  maximum
150px high but of course some are a lot wider and do not reach 150px
vertically.

http://www.westernwebdesign.com.au/sarwon/slightly.html

CSS is ul#img

I have tried giving them ALL a uniform height 150px  regardless of width
- see bottom 4 images - but of course I had to add a new bit of CSS -
ul#img2 with a much wider ul#img2 li.


You could constrain the thumbnails you see on the page to a certain 
consistent dimension, using height and width or using overflow hidden and 
then show the thumbnail in its natural aspect ration on hover. That can be 
done with pure CSS. Additionally, you could something like Lightbox 2 to 
add a bit of pizazz while eliminating the popup windows. If you are a 
Dreamweaver user, we will be releasing a fully automated presentation 
framework in a week or so. Here is a live preview of the output:


http://www.projectseven.com/products/staging/lightshow2/demo_01.htm



Sorry. Didn't see Thierry's suggestion. That should work for you if perfect 
symmetry is not a requirement.


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Fully Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets
http://www.projectseven.com/go/Elevators




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Re: [WSG] Browsers and Zooming

2008-07-04 Thread Al Sparber

From: Rick Lecoat [EMAIL PROTECTED]


On 3 Jul 2008, at 22:16, Al Sparber wrote:


When a block of text exceeds the viewport width, that means
horizontal scrolling for *each line* - a royal PITA.


I kid of think you are speaking for yourself ;-)


Well, he's speaking for me as well.
Al, do you really *not* find having to continuously scroll back and  forth 
horizontally (because the width of the text block is wider than  the 
viewport) to be an annoyance?



Hi Rick,

If a single or main text block is wider than my window, then that is a 
problem. Far more typical is that one or more sidebar or ancillary columns 
go off screen. In that case, I use my keyboard's arrow/navigation keys or 
make my window wider. It doesn't really annoy me though. I tend to get 
annoyed at other things ;-)


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Fully Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets
http://www.projectseven.com/go/Elevators




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Re: [WSG] Browsers and Zooming

2008-07-04 Thread Al Sparber

From: Joseph Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I agree with Rick here.

Having to scroll horizontally is not only an accessibility issue but a 
serious design issue. I challenge AI to find proof people don't mind  this 
as all my research and experience says otherwise.


Hi Joseph,

I have no incentive to do formal research as I don't work as a usability 
consultant. As I stated in another post to this thread, an important 
criteria is the target audience.


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Fully Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets
http://www.projectseven.com/go/Elevators




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Re: [WSG] Browsers and Zooming

2008-07-03 Thread Al Sparber

 I wonder what a partially sighted user would thing of these
'improvements'. Would they be glad that now they can see images a little
easier and the layout seems to break less or would they be annoyed at the
sudden appearance of a horizontal scrollbar?


I think web developers have an irrational fear of scrollbars :-) They are 
tools to scroll a window, not signs of bad design. I have never encountered 
a friend, family member or other civilian who has a problem scrolling in 
either direction if necessary.


For folks who need to increase the text size for a specific page (perhaps 
because the designer set microscopic font-sizes) a true zoom, rather than a 
text resize, preserves the line-length proportions in a fixed-width layout.




Or would they be using screen magnification software anyway, and it
wouldn't make a difference to them?


Probably not.

There are far more important issues to get bogged down in ;-)

--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Fully Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets
http://www.projectseven.com/go/Elevators




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Re: [WSG] Browsers and Zooming

2008-07-03 Thread Al Sparber

From: Trisha Salas [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I haven't been totally following this thread, but My 15 yo son has low 
vision.  It has come on very recently (last 6 months), He is 20/200 
corrected.  We have discovered the zoom feature on the old version of Mac 
OSx... he prefers it much more than enlarging text.  We have played with 
some of the accessibility features on the the PC and they don't work for 
him.  He has his own pc laptop and and hasn't been on it in months, he 
prefers to use my mac after I go to bed.  The left right scroll and design 
in general becomes irrelevant in these situations.  He wants to do what 
everyone else does and doesn't really care about scrolling to do it.


His issues have affected how I feel as a developer.  It really does boil 
down to usability.


We are going to get some more testing and in depth help the 25th of this 
month (for any who are wondering).  I am sure I will learn about all the 
things they have to offer him beyond zooming on a mac but for now this is 
working for us.


-

More important than anything we can discuss here, I wish your son well and 
pray that his vision problems are managed. 




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Re: [WSG] Browsers and Zooming

2008-07-03 Thread Al Sparber

From: Andrew Maben [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Browsers and Zooming



On Jul 3, 2008, at 3:41 PM, Al Sparber wrote:


an irrational fear of scrollbars


When a block of text exceeds the viewport width, that means
horizontal scrolling for *each line* - a royal PITA.


I kid of think you are speaking for yourself ;-)


If a right hand column falls outside the viewing area, it's not
unreasonable to assume that a significant number of users will not
bother to look.

Concern for either of these is scarcely irrational fear IMHO.


I think you have to first buy into someone else's usability tests. I don't. 
I am skeptical of many usability manifestos. That said, I'm not totally sure 
one way or another on this issue. What I am sure of is that I have not 
conducted conclusive testing, but the testing I have conducted leads me to 
believe, for now, that fear of scrolling is a fear that is far more 
prevalent among web developers than it is for the general population.


As for right columns falling outside the viewing area - whose viewing area? 
What size window? How many people have set a window size that will make your 
page or my page either fall outside the viewing area or squish to the point 
that other usability issues come to bear?


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Fully Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets
http://www.projectseven.com/go/Elevators




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Re: [WSG] Browsers and Zooming

2008-07-03 Thread Al Sparber

From: Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Well here's a guy who has done a bit of usability testing. To quote from 
the

article:

We know from user testing that users hate horizontal scrolling and always
comment negatively when they encounter it.

http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20050711.html

Of course he could be entirely wrong but I don't know of any more credible
research than his.


I know a lot of folks respect him. I'm not a huge fan, though. Like 
everything, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.





How many people have set a window size that will make your page or my 
page

either fall outside the viewing area or squish to the point that other
usability issues come to bear

Quite a few actually, now that designers tend to design for a minimum 
screen
resolution of 1024x768 while there are still a significant number of 
people

still using lower resolutions.


A user's video settings do not equate with the size of his window. Taking 
the approach I see so often taken by some web designers, if I were truly 
going to design a page for people whose monitors were set to 1024 x 768, I 
would have to assume the actual browser window would not, as is often the 
case, be maximized. Now what do I do? ;-)


I don't intend to be argumentative and I really do wish I knew what the 
answer were. Since I don't, I have to conclude that there are probably many 
different answers. Sites like A List Apart or my own can probably get away 
with a wider fixed design because of our audience. If I were making a site 
for health information, it might wind up a lot more flexible.


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Fully Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets
http://www.projectseven.com/go/Elevators






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Re: [WSG] IE6 width issue

2008-04-27 Thread Al Sparber

From: Lynette Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]

A client is still having issues with his site  www.bourkebridgeinn.com.au. 
I asked him to send me a screenshot:


http://www.westernwebdesign.com.au/test/screenshot.jpg

It seems to be a problem only in IE6 at a screen resolution of 800x600


It breaks to 2 lines in all browsers if you make the window width such that 
all those items will not fit.


I was wondering if it was anything to do with the max-width I have on 
#container and #nav as I know IE6 does not recognise  max-width.


You need min-width in addition to, or instead of, max-width. IE7 will be 
fine, along with other modern browsers.


For IE6 you need to use a script or a CSS expression to set min-width. You 
can google ie6 min-width css expression. You should get lots of hits. If 
not, reply back and I'll give you one.


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Fully Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets
http://www.projectseven.com/go/Elevators




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Re: [WSG] IE6 width issue

2008-04-27 Thread Al Sparber

From: Lynette Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE6 width issue



Thanks Al


You need min-width in addition to, or instead of, max-width. IE7 will 
be fine, along with other modern browsers.


For IE6 you need to use a script or a CSS expression to set min-width. 
You can google ie6 min-width css expression. You should get lots of 
hits. If not, reply back and I'll give you one.
I have indeed already looked at using expressions and found it all a bit 
confusing so I resorted to not using max-width and substituting width: 
100%; it seems to be OK now. Thanks for the offer, though.
Re the #nav  breaking, is there any way around this?  I must confess I 
don't really worry about 640x480 anymore.


If it doesn't concern you than you are right to ignore it :-)

--
Al


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Re: [WSG] Links are not hot in ie8

2008-03-06 Thread Al Sparber

From: Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I think it's going to be a fun ride...

http://tjkdesign.com/test/ie8/links.asp


I hope people are using IE8 for its intended purpose of Technical Beta. 
Microsoft's own home page does not work very well and major sites (like 
Adobe.com and Yahoo are rendered in degrees of chaos). In the event this 
beta gets out in the wild and folks start using it as their default browser 
for general surfing, I'd recommend a little warning:


http://www.projectseven.com/testing/ie8/pmm/

You'll see an alert box if you use IE8.

--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets
Authors: 42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design




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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

2008-03-03 Thread Al Sparber

From: tee [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I wonder id IE team from M$ sends the flower bouquets and chocolates  
to Mr Meyer and Mr  Zeldman with Hallmark cards to apologize for  
putting them being bug guys by supporting that silly idea.


Sorry, I just can't resist to asking this question.


I don't think anyone held a gun to anyone else's head ;-)

--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets
Authors: 42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design




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Re: [WSG] Compatibility and IE8

2008-01-24 Thread Al Sparber

From: Ben Buchanan [EMAIL PROTECTED]

crikey, that's some list. thanks Russ.
On the issue... it's something MS simply won't back down on no matter what
any of us think. So we may as well figure out how to deal with it.



Discuss? :) Surely this list has some opinions...


It's all about numbers. There are too many users lingering with old Windows 
versions and old browsers. Many of them refuse to upgrade because of 
sentiments similar to those couched in this thread. That is, they either 
dislike or distrust Microsoft. That's a tough position to be in. Others are 
quasi-competent developers running huge intranets laced with proprietary IE 
features. The folks who use the intranet, use their same antiquated IE 
browsers to view the public Web. I think Chris Wilson is a brilliant fellow 
and I also believe the IE team can make a browser as compliant as anyone 
else. Perhaps it's time for Microsoft to take some risks and forcibly push 
new browser versions out. Perhaps a marketing campaign to educate 
civilians and done as well as Apple's I'm a Mac ads would get things 
rolling along.


In any event, I think that Microsoft has demonstrated a commitment to 
standards and it might be time to cut them some slack.


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets
Authors: 42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design




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Re: [WSG] Float-less layouts

2008-01-07 Thread Al Sparber

From: Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED]


My apologies for cross-posting.

I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this article:
http://tjkdesign.com/articles/float-less_css_layouts.asp

Demo:
http://tjkdesign.com/articles/css-layout/no_div_no_float_no_clear_no_hack_no
_joke.asp


I'll cross-post, too - since I really like the essence of your approach, 
though I'm not fully sold on the lists. My opinion notwithstanding, that's a 
very industrious piece of work. Interestingly, I played with something like 
that for a Page Pack last year. We just used DIVs, however. The reason we've 
not felt good releasing it was because of  Dreamweaver's inability to render 
it. Of course, many people on this list probably are not as obsessed with 
Dreamweaver rendering as on the Adobe forum. Perhaps if your exercise gets a 
good response (on Adobe's forum), we can reconsider :-) Here is our little 
exercise, with just non-floated DIVs:


http://www.projectseven.com/products/staging/float_not/

--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets
Authors: 42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design





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Re: [WSG] Float-less layouts

2008-01-07 Thread Al Sparber

From: Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I gave it a quick try, but I didn't really spend much time on this as I'm
not a fan of cheating with the visual flow.


I agree. Skip to links would be the solution. Layout is difficult enough 
with the existing standards, but source ordering is, in my opinion, largely 
a wasted effort. If a web designer feels it important to have the main 
content come first, then that is the way the page should both display and be 
read.


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets
Authors: 42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design




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Re: [WSG] Float-less layouts

2008-01-07 Thread Al Sparber

From: Philippe Wittenbergh [EMAIL PROTECTED]

One of the issues with this technique: you can't use the 'columns' as  a 
containing block for absolute positioned elements.
Another issue: width on a 'table-cell' is more like 'min-width' than 
'width'. The cell can expand in width if it contains e.g. long 
unbreakable text strings (or strings of text with white-space:pre).  This 
can eventually be controlled by wrapping such content in a 
'overflow:auto' wrapper, but not always.


I didn't test Thierry's layout, but this page, setting widths on each DIV 
that is set to display table-cell, seems to behave as expected with respect 
to overflowed content:

http://www.projectseven.com/products/staging/float_not/index2.htm

--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
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Re: [WSG] Float-less layouts

2008-01-07 Thread Al Sparber

From: Geoff Pack [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thierry wrote (in the linked article, not his post):

DIVs are meaningless and cannot represent the structure of a document


Really?
According to the HTML 3.2 spec, where they first appear:
DIV elements can be used to structure HTML documents as a hierarchy of
divisions.
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html32#div

See also:
http://www.mail-archive.com/wsg@webstandardsgroup.org/msg29003.html


Hi Geoff,

The problem is with the standard. If one gets too hung up on semantic markup 
then there is the risk of bending the logical or implied semantics of an 
element to suit ones project. I submit that in the absence of a perfectly 
specific semantically correct element for a given task, a DIV becomes, by 
default, the logical choice. The world, and everything in it, is a list. The 
danger with that thinking, of course, is that everything in the world is 
data and can, therefore, be described in the cells of a table :-)


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets
Authors: 42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design




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Re: [WSG] Opera files antitrust against MS: standards one part

2007-12-14 Thread Al Sparber

From: David Storey [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I just one to make one point about this case clear (although I'm not
involved in it in any way).  The complaint is manly about getting
Microsoft to follow accepted web standards more closely, and isn't
about money at all.  I believe we (Opera) have stated that we don't
want to earn any money as a result of this complaint.  Hopefully this
is not one of the cases where just lawyers win.
--

No offense, but (imo) anyone who believes what you just wrote is extremely 
naive. While all web developers want standards conformance (whether they 
admit it or not), an industry with multiple browsers is not a healthy 
industry. No 2 browsers are alike. Every browser has quirks, anomalies, and 
bugs. What you (Opera) need to spend your idle time doing is coming up with 
a means for web developers to deploy fixes for your bugs. Something similar 
to Microsoft conditional comments. Then spend time convincing your compadres 
at Mozilla and Apple to do the same thing. Once you admit that you produce 
bugs, you'll have done a good deed... a noble deed. Then you can go about 
suing and whining all you want. Or do you believe that your browser is 
perfect?


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets
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Re: [WSG] Opera files antitrust against MS: standards one part

2007-12-14 Thread Al Sparber

From: liorean [EMAIL PROTECTED]


On 14/12/2007, Al Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
No offense, but (imo) anyone who believes what you just wrote is 
extremely

naive. While all web developers want standards conformance (whether they
admit it or not), an industry with multiple browsers is not a healthy
industry. No 2 browsers are alike. Every browser has quirks..


Isn't that effort more well spent in actually fixing those bugs,
instead?  The goal should IMHO be all browsers supporting the same
HTML/XHTML/XML/XSLT/CSS/JS/DOM/SVG/PNG/whatever without having to
write something specifically to each browser. Reducing the disparities
is a better way to go.


Yes, of course every effort needs to be made to fix and eliminate bugs... 
but you answered your question in the last sentence of your first paragraph. 
Reducing the disparities is not the same as eliminating disparities. It is 
human nature to make mistakes. It's often the best way to learn.




Developers don't WANT to send separate style sheets or scripts for ie.
Developers want ie to get fixed so that it supports those original
style sheets and scripts that are already supported by everyone else.
Op is close enough to the standards and to the other browsers that
they won't break particularly much code out there by fixing those bugs
that are actually bugs. For ie, the situation is different since
fixing those bugs would actually break terribly large amounts of
present code. That's why ie needs conditional comments and compliance
mode switches when other browsers don't.


One bug is all it takes to break a page. One bug is all it takes to make a 
client climb all over you. For hobby sites or sites targeted at web 
developers this is not a big problem. We understand. But when you develop a 
site for a commercial entity, the rules change. I must go under a couple of 
assumptions here:


1. All browsers will always have some bugs
2. Some users will always be browsers with an older version

It is for these reasons that all browser makers need to provide developers 
with a means of eploying targeted workarounds.



In which way is it better to let developers send code specifically for
fixing a bug, which creates a dependency of that code on the bug in
question, than fixing the bug? If such dependencies are created, they
make it harder to actually fix bugs.


That's a great philosophy for teachers and parents to have. It does not work 
so well, however, for businesses. The assumption, again, is that human 
nature is imperfect. Mistakes will always be made. So long as there are more 
than one browser, there will be unique bugs. It's useless to talk about MSIE 
having lots of bugs because it only takes one bug to keep a developer up at 
night. The reason I like conditional comments is that once I identify a fix 
for IE, I can fix it in a fully insulated way and for specific versions.


I recognize differences of opinion here and am so glad that this discussion 
remains civil. The object is always better standards support. I can't change 
Opera's mind and while I disagree with their premise, I can only hope that 
as this thing runs its course there will be benefits for us web developers 
and a better window into the web for all users.


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets
Authors: 42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design




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Re: [WSG] IE6 issue with a ul

2007-12-14 Thread Al Sparber

From: Lyn Patterson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 8:42 PM
Subject: [WSG] IE6 issue with a ul



Am having trouble with a photo gallery that is not displaying as it
should in IE6.

http://www.westernwebdesign.com.au/bluelightning/gallery.html

It is fine in Fx, IE7 and Opera.  In IE6, ul#img li is not displaying.
This is the bit that supplies the background  and room for a large 
caption.


Can anyone tell me why this is so?


It's a bug. Fixed in IE7. Set the element to position: relative and you 
should be good to go.


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets
Authors: 42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design




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Re: [WSG] Opera files antitrust against MS: standards one part

2007-12-13 Thread Al Sparber

From: Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED]


My concern with the complaint is that it is clearly twofold; that
Microsoft is holding standards back, and that Microsoft is holding
competitors back. One is valid, the other is clearly business.


Here's another way to look at it...

Microsoft is a software publisher. It develops an OS that contains a default 
browser: Internet Explorer. Microcenter makes PowerSpec brand computers. It 
made my computer. It installed Microsoft Windows on my computer in the 
flavor I specified. It installed a 1 year subscription NAS, which it does on 
all of its computers. It also installed Firefox. When I booted up the 
computer the first time, Windows asked me to set my default programs. One of 
the choices was for a browser. I could have chosen Firefox.


As my logic goes, Opera should be suing Microcenter -- as well as any other 
computer manufacturer that does not include Opera.


Further:

Apple is both a computer manufacturer and a software publisher. It develops 
an OS that contains a default browser: Safari. My iMac comes with neither 
Firefox nor Opera. Opera, using its logic, should sue Apple, the software 
publisher. Using my logic, they should sue Apple, the computer manufacturer.


If I were Opera, I'd take a long walk along the fjords and do some 
soul-searching about ethics, EU-style ethics notwithstanding.


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
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Authors: 42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design




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Re: [WSG] Opera files antitrust against MS: standards one part

2007-12-13 Thread Al Sparber

From: Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Personally I'm looking forward to buying computers with virtually nothing 
pre installed.  I always end up deleting most of it anyway.  Alot of 
people start off by reinstalling the OS to get rid of all the junk the PC 
manufacturers put on.


Indeed. But to bring it on-topic, I doubt very highly that Opera's 
motivation is standards. If the unimaginable happened and MSIE8 were as 
standards-comformant as Opera, it would also be stronger in the marketplace. 
The best thing that could happen for standards-oriented web developers would 
be that all computers shipped with a single, extensible browser appliance 
with a standards-based module, managed and updated by an independent party, 
being the chief extension. It's better that the industry wake up now because 
eventually someone is going to figure out that a browser is an appliance and 
the only thing it should be doing is supporting standards and sitting 
unobtrusively in the background acting as a window to the web.


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets
Authors: 42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design




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Re: [WSG] Idiot's guide to JavaScript

2007-11-27 Thread Al Sparber

From: Breton Slivka [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Of course if you don't feel like reading it, then don't. You have the
reccomendations here for the books that have good information (Unless
nobody has yet reccomended David Flanagan's Javascript: The
Definative Guide). When you're ready for good information, that is,
you have a specific problem that calls for a correct solution, then go
for those books. Otherwise, read whatever gets you into action, and
actually working in the language the quickest.


I recommend Flanagan's book highly. I also caution the original questioner 
to be wary of buzzwords like Dom Scripting and Web 2.0. And to a previous 
poster, there are times when even the most accomplished scripter might need 
to use document.write or an inline handler. Be wary of absolutes and, when 
convenient, check the actual work of some of these authors and you might be 
surprised - or not :-)


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets
Authors: 42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design




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Re: [WSG] z-index problem with dropdown menu

2007-11-04 Thread Al Sparber

From: John Faulds [EMAIL PROTECTED]


I've z-indexed just about everything on the page to no avail so far.


#header {
position: relative;
z-index: 999;
}

--
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Re: [WSG] Leopard mail and standards

2007-10-27 Thread Al Sparber

From: Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED]


On 10/22/07, Al Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

From: Breton Slivka [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Have you tried outlook 2007 Lately? the way it reads/displays html has
 been THE issue ever since it was released.

No. I'd assumed it displayed the same as OE6 or Windows Mail (Vista).


A.. it doesn't. You should do a test and send us your results.


For the type of announcements we send out, the problems are minimal. In 
testing, we find that Font-family is not properly picked up and padding is 
junked. So this page, representative of our mailings, is acceptable and not, 
in our opinion worth the bother of hacking up:

http://www.projectseven.com/products/menusystems/pmm/style-packs/pmmsp/mail/

I guess the bottom line is to keep it simple. It's only an email. A bigger 
problem for html email senders is what happens when the page is viewed in 
some web-based mails.


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
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Re: [WSG] Leopard mail and standards

2007-10-22 Thread Al Sparber

From: Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sorry, had to go back and re-read the thread starter. In rushing through 
my mail, I thought the question was more along the lines of will it 
support our carefully crafted HTML/CSS emails, but I see now that it 
specifically concerned the shipped templates. In which case yes, their 
templates will probably not follow full separation, simply because they'll 
have to actually work with Outlook.


I'm not entirely sure. The HTML/plain text announcements we send out are 
standards-based with one exception - we embed the CSS in the body section. 
These mails display perfectly in Outlook, OE, Windows Mail, Apple Mail, and 
Thunderbird. The problem with Outlook, I believe, is more to do with what it 
generates, rather than what it can read/display.


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
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Re: [WSG] will Eric Meyer's CSS SCULPTOR put me out o f job?

2007-08-28 Thread Al Sparber

From: Tee G. Peng [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Al, I am not afraid you CSS Layout Magic will put me out of job  because I 
saw some of your customers managed to mess up your layout  and I actually 
helped a few to clean up their messes :)


Why didn't you just say what you meant, then :-)

Not saying  your extension is not good or not as good as  the CSS 
Sculptor,  besides, I am in no position to compare because I never use 
either of  them.


What prompted me to ask this question is because, I guess, the  impression 
I got is the way it's being advertised- The ultimate Web  standards 
compliant CSS layout


I own both and prefer mine. I believe they prefer theirs. We try not to use 
words like best and certainly never use ultimate, though definitive is 
cool so long as someone else is describing your work as such.



I see so many web designers using CSS without a bit of understanding  of 
semantical and structural markup, and the way I see it, the way  they do 
with the div classes is nothing different than the table  layout, so I 
always thought extension like yours provides a good  ground however, 
exactly like you're saying You have to have a basic  understanding of CSS 
and markup to use these tools to their full  potential.


Yeah. Whether you get that info from our free support channels, or from 
lists like this one, or from people like you, it's the same thing. We make 
our living selling tools for Dreamweaver users and sometimes we get hammered 
for it in subtle and not-so-subtle ways... but we are no different from any 
good web developer, even the ones who assert that everything should be open 
source and free except for the bills they send their clients.



Guess it probably just a marketing gimmick to market an extension  as 
The ultimate Web standards compliant CSS layout, but I respect Eric 
Meyer so much (no he doesn't know my existence) that I want to  believe 
The ultimate Web standards compliant CSS layout is exactly  as it 
advertised, that it really can help many web designers to use  the CSS and 
markup correctly, semantically and structurally. If so, I  may even 
consider to purchase it myself to help enchance my  production :)


It is a gimmick, and I do respect Eric too, but sometimes when talent meets 
marketing hyperbole reigns. I'm old enough to remember when one of my 
favorite acronyms was still fresh:


K.I.S.S.

Keep it simple, stupid.

Web developers can sometimes over-code and web tool developers sometimes 
over-program.


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets
Authors: 42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design




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Re: [WSG] will Eric Meyer's CSS SCULPTOR put me out o f job?

2007-08-27 Thread Al Sparber

From: Tee G. Peng [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I am just curious, what you do guys think of the dreamweaver  extension 
like this one and the PVll CSS layout Magic, and the Google  Blueprint ?
Can they take over the carefully crafted CSS and structural markup  you 
deliver to your clients? There first one even take care of IE  browsers.


Both products produce standards-based CSS layouts that work in modern 
browsers (ours also addresses IE5.0x, too). I can only speak for our product 
(CSS Layout Magic). It is a rapid deployment (one click) tool that produces 
a minimally styled, structurally sound layout set up with easy-to-edit faux 
column images. The idea is that you get a rock-solid structure on which to 
build and enhance. While Jakob Neilsen might consider it a finished design, 
we don't :-). You have to have a basic understanding of CSS and markup to 
use these tools to their full potential, other wise the pages you produce 
will always look like a rental house with white walls (in this case, a lot 
of yellow). The faux images approach allows quick customization to easily 
turn this:

http://www.projectseven.com/products/templates/pagepacks/cssmagic/cssmagic08.htm

into this:
http://www.projectseven.com/products/templates/pagepacks/cssmagic/tweaks/rounded/fixed/

A little texture, some shadow, and voila, in less than an hour one can have 
a decent home page comp to show a client.



I notice fewer people ask me to do CSS and XHTML templates lately :)


If what you mean above is that you are having web designers hire you to do a 
page structure, then I can see where products like this might have a small 
impact, but neither of the products is targeted at end users.


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets
Authors: 42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design




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Re: [WSG] Using target=_blank

2007-07-24 Thread Al Sparber
From: David Hucklesby [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Hmm. What's easy to use when you wind up with a bunch of spawned
 windows that must be closed one by one? 

I'm not advocating popup windows, but with a simple script is very easy to open 
popup windows while reusing the same window. That is, maximum number of windows 
possible (not counting the main site window) = 1.

-- 
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http://www.projectseven.com
Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets
Authors: 42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design




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Re: [WSG] Javascript image rotator

2007-07-13 Thread Al Sparber
From: Micky Hulse [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 For my last project I used this:
 
 http://www.electricprism.com/aeron/slideshow/
 
 You can simplify it down to fading transitions with random image 
 display. It will display a placeholder image of your choosing if JS is 
 not available.
 
 I have yet to find an equivalent JS slideshow.
 
 Uses mootools. I am not the biggest fan of the mootools documentation 
 and/or forum support, but it is pretty lieghtweight js framework.
 
 The Slideshow itself is pretty good from a JS perspective... I mean, I 
 do think it could be a little more decoupled from the CSS/HTML, but 
 overall I think it is well written.

The animations are cool but if one optimizes images for the web then there's 
not much to work with and you're back to a cross-fade. All the animations are 
jittery in Firefox, which is normal, and there does not seem to be a fallback 
if script is disabled to at least be able to link to all of the images. I'm 
obviously a bit prejudiced, but I kind of think this one is more usable:
http://www.projectseven.com/products/galleries/ssm/ssm_03.htm

It's not free, though... but it is totally automated for Adobe Studio users.

-- 
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http://www.projectseven.com
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Re: [WSG] Javascript image rotator

2007-07-13 Thread Al Sparber
From: Micky Hulse [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 I guess I thought the original poster wanted something more for a simple 
 banner vs an actual gallery script.

You're right. I didn't go back far enough in the thread. Sorry.


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Re: [WSG] WCAG Samurai Errata

2007-06-08 Thread Al Sparber
From: Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
uments. 
 As a side note, it also says:
 Earlier versions of this script did not use document.write(), I was using
 the DOM to plug the stylesheets in the HEAD element. Unfortunately, setting
 the rel attribute of the LINK element makes Safari go blank and STYLE
 fails in IE Win. So, I decided to go with what works!

That's a wise decision in this business. It might not win points in a standards 
forum, but if the goal is a working application with reasonable backwards 
compatibility, I'm with you.

-- 
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets
Authors: 42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design




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Re: [WSG] target and accessibility

2007-03-12 Thread Al Sparber

From: Designer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I may be late to the party with this, but I think what they're 
looking for would be:


a href=LINK title=Buy TITLE 1 nowBuy Now/a
a href=LINK title=Buy TITLE 2 nowBuy Now/a
a href=LINK title=Buy TITLE 3 nowBuy Now/a
a href=LINK title=Buy TITLE 4 nowBuy Now/a
a href=LINK title=Buy TITLE 5 nowBuy Now/a



Andrew

Thanks Andrew - Simon put me on to this also, and it's EXACTLY what 
the

validator is demanding.


There really is not an accessibility validator in the same sense as 
there is an HTML or CSS validator. Accessibility is not black and 
white. I believe your original code is fine:


h1 EVERY STREET IN MANCHESTER /h1
a href=esim/btsa.htmlAbout the book/a
a href=esim/btsa_pt2.htmlWhat the critics say/a

h1 MANCHESTER KISS /h1
a href=mk/introduction.htmlIntroduction/a
a href=mk/introduction_pt2.htmlWhat the author says/a
a href=mk/introduction_pt3.htmlWhat the critics say/a

An assistive reader, in the vast majority of cases,  is not going to 
machine-gun What the critics say. It's going to read the headings, 
then the content/links that come below.


This might be a case of overanalyzing things a bit. The goal is not to 
satisfy a machine-based checker, but to provide a usable and 
accessible page.


--
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http://www.projectseven.com
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Re: [WSG] target and accessibility

2007-03-12 Thread Al Sparber

From: Designer [EMAIL PROTECTED]

There really is not an accessibility validator in the same sense 
as there is an HTML or CSS validator. Accessibility is not black 
and white. I believe your original code is fine:


h1 EVERY STREET IN MANCHESTER /h1
a href=esim/btsa.htmlAbout the book/a
a href=esim/btsa_pt2.htmlWhat the critics say/a

h1 MANCHESTER KISS /h1
a href=mk/introduction.htmlIntroduction/a
a href=mk/introduction_pt2.htmlWhat the author says/a
a href=mk/introduction_pt3.htmlWhat the critics say/a

An assistive reader, in the vast majority of cases,  is not going 
to machine-gun What the critics say. It's going to read the 
headings, then the content/links that come below.


This might be a case of overanalyzing things a bit. The goal is not 
to satisfy a machine-based checker, but to provide a usable and 
accessible page.


Thanks Al, I appreciate your input on this. Point is, I am new to 
giving accessibility some serious consideration  (other than the 
obvious simple things) and my only teacher at this stage are the 
various checkers such as those which come in the FF dev toolbar. 
Only this last week I decided to put a few sites on the W3C site 
thing (http://www.w3csites.com/) and, of course, you have to specify 
certain ratings such as html validation as well as WAI/section 508 
validation. I thought this was an interesting challenge/tutorial to 
see what was needed to get my sites to pass automatic WAI3 
validation.  It has been a very educational exercise and there has 
been a couple of things (like the case discussed here) which I would 
never have dreamed of.  Clearly, accessibility is a big area and 
currently outside of my expertise, but it's a start.


Or do you think it's a misleading one, perhaps?


No. Just confusing :-) It's much more a subjective area than is CSS or 
general markup, for example. I would sign off on the heading/DD 
scenario you have, with the duplicated link text. But that's not to 
say you should. You might want to subscribe to the WebAim 
accessibility mailing list and see if you can get a clear concensus 
there.


http://list.webaim.org/

Best of luck.

--
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http://www.projectseven.com
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Authors: 42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design







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Re: [WSG] target and accessibility

2007-03-11 Thread Al Sparber

From: Designer [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Al Sparber wrote:


[snip]
. . . No one is forcing you to not use Buy Now 20 times, on 20 
different links. . . .


Well Al, they are if I want to make an 'accessible' site which 
passes the WAI validation.  No-one is 'forcing me' not to put font 
tags in the markup, or lay it out with tables, or etc.


:-)


That's an interesting bit of logic ;-) Nevertheless, I'm glad you've 
found a solution. 





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Re: [WSG] target and accessibility

2007-03-10 Thread Al Sparber

From: Designer [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thanks John!   But . . .

That's what I want : 2 different books, each in it's own headed 
list, both with a section on what the critics say.  Does this mean 
I can't have that?  If so, that is ridiculous!!


If I have 20 items for sale in a list, does that mean I can't have a 
'buy now' button for each of them, because the link text is the 
same? Ludicrous!


See checkpoint 13.1:
http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT/

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Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling 
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Re: [WSG] target and accessibility

2007-03-10 Thread Al Sparber

From: Designer [EMAIL PROTECTED]

So I repeat : 20 items for sale would have to be:

Buy now,
Buy it now,
Buy this now,
Now buy it,
Get it at once,
Purchase now,
Get yer wallet out,
Fork out now,
Dig in for the dosh,

etc etc.  :-)

Ludicrous!  I see the point, obviously, but really!!!


Accessibility sometimes involves judgement calls. No one is forcing 
you to not use Buy Now 20 times, on 20 different links. But you can 
use:


Buy Machester Kiss now
Buy Manchester Hug now

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Re: [WSG] PopUp windows

2007-03-07 Thread Al Sparber

From: Kim Kruse [EMAIL PROTECTED]

What about PDF's. Should they open the same window?


I've had such poor history with Acrobat Reader stability when running 
inside a browser that I try to avoid PDF when alterntatives are 
available, but when only a PDF is possible, I usually give a clear 
notice with the link that this is a PDF file then zip it up just to be 
safe - like the Cookie Monster link on this page:


http://www.projectseven.com/extensions/listing.htm
(Under Heading: Free Extensions) 





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Re: [WSG] Talking about tabular data...

2007-03-06 Thread Al Sparber

Dwain Alford wrote:

ok, i'll bite.  how does it change the meaning?  i really don't
understand what you mean.  after reading a later post about screen
readers and how they would go crazy with the dots, that i 
understand;

but again, i don't understand your statement about changing the
meaning.  what is the meaning in this case?


Why would this even merit a debate? If one wants to choose a 
definition list for structure, then he has obviously determined that 
it's logical for his particular application. If one chooses a table, 
given the relationship Thierry presented, then that logic is also 
valid.


If I had a relational database that joined an employee_name table to 
a position table, then I might be inclined to use a table and it's 
no more arguable then if I were creating a static relationship 
directly on a page and decided to use a definition list.


The dots are academic since anyone with a good CSS grounding would 
deploy them using a background image - not by typing in a bunch of 
dots :-)


Consider this:
http://www.projectseven.com/csslab/tables/dotleader/

If Thierry wants to use a definition list, then that's his decision 
and it's probably not going to end the world. If he wants to debate 
with someone who's made his own decision to use a table and who, 
perhaps, simply wants to know a good way to make the dots, then that 
could be an invitation to a controversy.


--
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com

Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that 
repairs

are scheduled for next Tuesday.






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Re: [WSG] Absolute Positioning-A Naive Question (Maybe)

2006-03-13 Thread Al Sparber

Paula Petrik wrote:

When I read the W3C specs (not the most riveting exercise on the
planet), it seems that the developers emphasize absolute 
positioning.

For example, they describe using floats to float small bits of text
or images. It seems, however, that floats have become the order of
the day. Rather than small bits, whole parts of designs are floated
about. Was this the W3C's intent? Or, have floats become the modern
equivalent of tables?


In a manner of speaking, yes.

Here is a whimsical page using floats in a way I believe they were 
actually intended to be used:

http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/css/holy-gruel/ifloats.htm



Is there some reason why absolute positioning
has fallen by the wayside? CSS-Discuss's wiki describes absolute
positioning as capable of simple designs; yet, a significant
proportion of csszengarden designs are absolutely positioned, and I
wouldn't term them simple. Just wondering what the current wisdom is
on this issue.


It's one tool in the box - though I believe it is much more useful 
than a lot of other CSS authors.


This page uses a classic float, as well as an absolutely positioned 
sidebar:

http://www.projectseven.com/products/templates/pagepacks/tbm/keylime/p7keylime_03.htm


--
Al Sparber
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Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that 
repairs

are scheduled for next Tuesday.




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Re: [WSG] Do you still support 4.0 browsers?

2006-02-27 Thread Al Sparber

From: Gunlaug Sørtun [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I often add links to http://browsehappy.com/ since all IE versions 
up
to and including IE7 are/will be less capable than the others, and 
leave

the rest up to the visitor without further disclaimers of any sort -
apart from those I include on my own site :-)


It's always good to ask the client if he or she wants a tangential 
statement associated with their business. It could make more 
traditional business people feel uneasy - with their web developer.


--
Al Sparber
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Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling 
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Re: [WSG] Converting the heathen: never again

2006-02-26 Thread Al Sparber

SunUp wrote:

Hi folks,



My own fault, I asked for it, obviously.
I will now be a good little backyard hobbyist web-designer as they
called me (actually, it's my day job too), and never mention 
standards

again.



I don't think you need to go back to 10th grade, but - for your own 
sake - you might want to read Genesis 4:9 :-)


--
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com

Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that 
repairs

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Re: [WSG] TARGET in 4.01 Strict

2006-02-15 Thread Al Sparber

From: Ric Raftis [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Bert Doorn wrote:

The main idea is that one should not open new windows at all, 
leaving it up to the user to decide, which is why the target 
attribute was removed.


G'day Bert,

This always seems to be a subject of some debate.  For commercial 
sites, I ALWAYS open a new blank window on a link.  I do however 
advise users that this will happen and that they only have to close 
the new window to return to my site.  From a marketing standpoint, 
why would you want to be showing people the door and then pushing 
them out into the street?


I think you raise a very valid point. People who rely on a web site 
to make money tend to have a much different view of such things and 
use much different criteria to judge the merits of various techniques. 
That said, I have maintained for a long time that Javascript, with a 
return false, is the best way to open a new window and we've been 
doing it that way for years. The W3C, however, does need to get a bit 
more mindful of the commercial side of the Web. Who knows, frames 
might one day become the tool they should have been all along, if the 
W3C develops logical specifications :-)


--
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com

Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling 
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that 
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Re: [WSG] TARGET in 4.01 Strict

2006-02-15 Thread Al Sparber

From: Terrence Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The usually reason cited in support of new windows for money makers 
is that they improve conversion. However, AFAIK there is no 
evidence to support this, and in all the literature I have read 
(outside of opinions expressed in  mailing lists) I am yet to come 
across a recommendation (with proof) that popping new windows is a 
good practice to improve conversion. There are examples that 
recommend against it, including one from an e-marketeer.


You might be right about new windows being a fiscal non-issue when 
examined or tested. We do have experience with some frameset impact, 
that are downright interesting. 



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Re: [WSG] TARGET in 4.01 Strict

2006-02-15 Thread Al Sparber

Christian Montoya wrote:

On 2/15/06, Al Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


From: Ric Raftis [EMAIL PROTECTED]

For commercial
sites, I ALWAYS open a new blank window on a link.  I do however
advise users that this will happen and that they only have to 
close
the new window to return to my site.  From a marketing 
standpoint,

why would you want to be showing people the door and then pushing
them out into the street?


I think you raise a very valid point. People who rely on a web 
site

to make money tend to have a much different view of such things and
use much different criteria to judge the merits of various
techniques. That said, I have maintained for a long time that
Javascript, with a return false, is the best way to open a new
window and we've been doing it that way for years. The W3C, 
however,

does need to get a bit more mindful of the commercial side of the
Web. Who knows, frames might one day become the tool they should
have been all along, if the W3C develops logical specifications :-)


Maybe, but this is just another example of how marketers try to
control the browsing experience. Things have to look a specific way,
behave a specific way, etc... but there isn't any proof that this is
good for business. Popups are a usability problem, in that they 
break

the back button and they result in a lot of windows that have to be
closed.


You're pre-supposing. If popup windows are scripted you reuse the same 
window object over and over. You can never have more than one open. 
Your statement is only true if the target attribute is used.



--
Al Sparber
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Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that 
repairs

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Re: [WSG] TARGET in 4.01 Strict

2006-02-15 Thread Al Sparber

From: Terrence Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED]

1. Your links open a new window object 'foo'.
2. User now has two windows: their window with your page, 'foo' with 
external page.
3. User decides to leave 'foo' open because they are interested in 
the page loaded into it, and return to their window to explore your 
page again. Success!! this is the exact behaviour we want from 
opening new windows - it's the marketing argument.
4. User finds another link to explore on your page and clicks the 
link.

5. The link targets 'foo' and loads a new page into it.

Now we are not only forcing the user to manage two windows, but we 
are also loading all our links into 'foo', which potentially the 
user may not want (if they are expecting to return to some content 
they have left before) or notice.


Phew... it all seems so much more complicated than just using a back 
button =)


OK. I see. If a developer has all the links, or a lot of the links, on 
a page, open in foo, then that would be very bad. In a real world 
scenario, I would use a popup only to show, for example, an example 
during the course of a tutorial - like on this page:


http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/navigation/pmm/rootimages/index.htm

--
Al 



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Re: [WSG] TARGET in 4.01 Strict

2006-02-15 Thread Al Sparber

From: Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You're pre-supposing. If popup windows are scripted you reuse the 
same

window object over and over. You can never have more than one open.
Your statement is only true if the target attribute is used.


I'm not pre-supposing anything. All popup windows break the back
button (popup as in a new window, Javascript or not). When I am done
with the site that pops up, I want to use the back button to get back
to the original site. That is natural web use and popups interfere
with that. I have to close the window to go back, which, like has
already been said, is not as convenient, as the back button is on my
trackball (like a mouse but cooler), while closing a window requires
alt-f4 (two buttons miles apart) or reaching for the X.

Usually at this point I close the popup and back out of the
offending site. But maybe I'm too harsh.

---

With all due respect, you are making a blanket assessment based on a 
worst case scenario. Having one or two links on a few pages in a site 
that open a single, named popup window containing, for example, sample 
pages for a tutorial in the main window, is a practical use for popup 
windows - at least in the opinion of some folks. I think it might be 
gracious of you to admit that there might be more than one useful 
opinion on this matter.


Thanks.

--
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com

Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling 
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that 
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Re: [WSG] CSS Holy Gruel

2006-02-14 Thread Al Sparber

From: Kevin Ross


Just wondering, Al... is the Javascript public domain ?



The Equal Height column script is and you can read more about it here:
http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/css/pvii_columns/index.htm

Also feel free to use and abuse the little min-width expressions in 
the Conditional Comments.


--
Al Sparber
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Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling 
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Re: [WSG] CSS Holy Gruel

2006-02-13 Thread Al Sparber

From: Ric Raftis [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Al Sparber wrote:

We're compiling a folder of CSS layouts. Feel free to play. 
There'll be more.


http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/css/holy-gruel/juanpercent.htm


OK, I'll be the silly bugger who asks.  Why is the layout using a 
HTML 4.01 Transitional DTD?  Just curious.


Because I don't see a practical purpose in using anything else :-) 
It's a sparse page, easily converted to xhtml syntax if one desires 
that.


--
Al Sparber
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Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling 
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Re: [WSG] CSS Holy Gruel

2006-02-13 Thread Al Sparber

Christian Montoya wrote:

Yes, but if you don't use HTML 4.01 Strict, you will get quirks mode
from some browsers. I think that's what Ric was wondering.


Eh, not on that page - but if it's important, here you go:
http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/css/holy-gruel/juanpercent-strict.htm

--
Al Sparber
PVII
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Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling
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repairs

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Re: [WSG] CSS Holy Gruel

2006-02-13 Thread Al Sparber

From: Paul Dwyer [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Wierd...

killed half my own post with a bracket  :)

The rest should read validates once it is removed.


much appreciated :-)

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Re: [WSG] IE7 Compatibility Team

2006-02-10 Thread Al Sparber

From: Bert Doorn [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Which W3C standard/recommendation for CSS defines the zoom property? 
I don't see it in the CSS 2.1 spec.


http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/propidx.html

If indeed it's not defined in any CSS standard/recommendation, are 
MS effectively saying:  We recommend you write invalid CSS so 
things work in our new browser which has better support for 
standards?


Yes. Good analysis :-)

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Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling 
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Re: [WSG] Target sued over non-accessible site

2006-02-09 Thread Al Sparber

From: Ted Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED]



This has the potential for making some positive improvements in the
commercial web sphere.  Target is not blind to good design. Their 
new
prescription bottles have been hailed as one of the best designs of 
the last
decade (I think they were designed by a graduate student before 
Target

purchased them. But at least they recognized the value)

Target has also commissioned top fashion and architecture designers 
to

develop affordable products (Michael Graves, Phiippe Stark, ...)

Target may actually replace their site with an insightful, 
accessible

solution that is a model for other companies.

Unfortunately, it takes a law suit to get corporations to make 
changes these

days.


I'm dumbfounded if, in fact, Target was advised of the absence of Alt 
text and did nothing. I want to believe there must be more to the 
story :-) That said, I think it does emphasize the responsibility that 
web designers have to make their sites accessible - for no other 
reason, then it's the good and moral thing to do. And with that said, 
I believe the authors and marketers of JAWS should be ripped a new 
orifice for selling a seriously flawed application that itself does 
not support long-standing standards.


I feel better now.

--
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com

Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling 
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that 
repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday.





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Re: [WSG] Target sued over non-accessible site

2006-02-09 Thread Al Sparber

From: Joseph R. B. Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]

The only thing I don't understand is how on earth does a blind 
person pick out items that rely on a photograph (clothes etc)...


If you go to Target's home page, you will find, in the left column 
what appear to be headlines describing sale and special items. They 
are images - and there is no Alt text. Blind people do shop :-).


--
Al Sparber
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http://www.projectseven.com

Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling 
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that 
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Re: [WSG] Target sued over non-accessible site

2006-02-09 Thread Al Sparber

From: Minh D. Tran [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Target sued over non-accessible site


So I have a question, so even if it's Alt Text, how would a blind 
person even see to read?

-

It's read to them with a special application called an assistive 
reader. The application reads the alt text and/or title, or provides a 
means to open a special file if a long description attribute is used. 



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Re: [WSG] cool FAQ page [follow up]

2006-02-09 Thread Al Sparber

From: Terrence Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED]


It seems that for the author the bottom line is *consistency*
Consistency *is* the bottom line for usability. I have never 
disputed
that. Nielsen also says use platform conventions. Creating a list of 
links

to resources within a page is a convention for the web.


I hope to hell I'm not opening a can of worms here. Getting away from 
the FAQ thing to links within documents, I find that sort of 
navigation almost as annoying as popup windows. It might very well be 
a convention, but I do consider it a negative for usability. Very 
distracting - even more so when there are mixed links in the same 
area, some of which scroll to another point in the doc, while others 
load new documents.


Back to the FAQs now :-)

--
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com

Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling 
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that 
repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday.





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Re: [WSG] cool FAQ page [follow up]

2006-02-09 Thread Al Sparber

From: Terrence Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Al Sparber:

Very distracting
Are you talking about when there is just the list of links is first 
and

you must scroll to get the first screen of content?


For me, it's any link that scrolls the page. I'm old enough to get 
disoriented, I guess. The exception, of course, is skip links designed 
and implemented to be accessible only to assistive devices and 
keyboard surfers.


--
Al 



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Re: [WSG] cool FAQ page [follow up]

2006-02-09 Thread Al Sparber

From: Paul Novitski [EMAIL PROTECTED]

If a web designer further distinguished between links that jump 
within a page vs. those that load a new page, would that obviate 
your objection?


It would mitigate it. I find it easier to tolerate a FAQ or Q/A thing 
if it's apparent that all of the questions are links to answers far 
down the page. So if I see a compact list of 20 questions and a long 
scrollbar, I'm prepared for the page to scroll when I click a link.


In other words, is the problem the mixture of link types leading to 
frustrations of expectation, or is the problem with the local link 
itself?


It's more an issue of mixing the link types.

--
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com

Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling 
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that 
repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday.





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Re: [WSG] cool FAQ page [follow up]

2006-02-07 Thread Al Sparber

From: Terrence Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Cc: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] cool FAQ page [follow up]



Justin Carter said:

It truly is frustrating when FAQ pages hide everything with
invisible DIVs. As already mentioned it makes Ctrl-F useless 
(which
I personally find very annoying), and it also makes me click a 
whole
bunch of useless + symbols if I want to read more than one question 
on

the page.


Agreed. One of the basic tenents of usability is to prevent errors.
Breaking basic browser funtionality (find function) contravenes 
this...

The rest is fixing what you just broke isn't it?


From a very strict accessibility/usability persepctive you make an 
excellent point. However, a marketing-oriented person wanting to show 
6 major headlines above the fold would probably eat you for lunch in a 
meeting to decide whether to use this feature on a commercial site 
:-) I also agree that for the type of site which targets people in our 
business, it should not be used.


--
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com

Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling 
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that 
repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday.





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Re: [WSG] cool FAQ page [follow up]

2006-02-07 Thread Al Sparber

From: Terrence Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Cc: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] cool FAQ page [follow up]



a marketing-oriented person would probably eat you for lunch

I doubt it. I spent over a decade in marketing =)


I spent 20 years designing and building some of the most upscale food 
markets in America. So let's call it a push and move on, eh?


--
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com

Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling 
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that 
repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday.





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Re: [WSG] cool FAQ page [follow up]

2006-02-07 Thread Al Sparber

From: Terrence Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Cc: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] cool FAQ page [follow up]



Al Sparber said:
I spent 20 years designing and building some of the most upscale 
food

markets in America. So let's call it a push and move on, eh?


Your foo beats mine Al =)


You are a gentleman and a scholar :-)


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Re: [WSG] cool FAQ page [follow up]

2006-02-07 Thread Al Sparber

From: Terrence Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED]
See above. I'm not sure there was agreement that a definition list 
is the

semantic answer. What about headings for Q's and paras for A's. The
heading can be viewed in a document outline (by some browsers), and 
it
avoids the whole Q/A is not a term/definition argument. I'm not 
entirely
sure what you mean by out of context - I'm guessing you are stuck 
on the

idea that the Q's can only appear once on the page?


Here's another approach you're sure not to like :-)
http://www.projectseven.com/csslab/swapclass/outline/

--
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com

Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling 
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that 
repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday.





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Re: [WSG] cool FAQ page [follow up]

2006-02-06 Thread Al Sparber

From: Samuel Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Zah? I thought this was about showing/hiding content within divs. 
Not matter how well written your content/headings whatever, you 
shouldn't disable parts of the browser interface. I've read that 
sentence above about three times and I can't understand it.


For the few people who might take offense at this kind of 
interactivity (likely web developers who are passionate about 
usability), it might not be an issue worth agonizing over. It's 
accessible to both the blind and to keyboard users. It's one of those 
judgement calls best left to the client and not to a committee of 
standards experts  :-)


--
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com

Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling 
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that 
repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday.







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[WSG] Display:Table

2006-02-04 Thread Al Sparber
I'm compiling some information for an article and would appreciate 
your opinion on an issue.


The issue:

Imagine that all display values are supported by all browsers as of 
midnight tonight. Do you think that using display:table and 
display:table-cell to create multi-column layouts is correct or 
incorrect - and why?


Thanks in advance.

--
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com

Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling 
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that 
repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday.





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Re: [WSG] Standards Savvy Shopping Cart

2006-02-04 Thread Al Sparber

From: kvnmcwebn [EMAIL PROTECTED]



hello,
does the ie7 beta allow scaling of fonts set in pixels?
-kvnmcwebn


No - but it does have a new zoom tool a la Opera.

--
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com

Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling 
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that 
repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday.







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