Re: [WSG] HTML5 v. HTML 4.x

2011-01-24 Thread Andrew Cunningham


On 25/01/2011 12:34 PM, Christian Snodgrass wrote:
 One word : semantics.
 

Assuming authors use the element in the same way, and assuming the
element has only one semantic meaning possible.

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Re: [WSG] Mobile urls

2010-11-15 Thread Andrew Cunningham


On 15/11/2010 6:15 PM, Michael MD wrote:
 Although the most interesting aspect of BBC mobile content esp. for complex 
 script languages is the choice between a textual version and an image 
 version:
 
 http://www.bbc.co.uk/hindi/mobile/india/2010/11/101114_raja_resign_final_skj.shtml
 
 http://www.bbc.co.uk/hindi/mobile/image/india/2010/11/101114_raja_resign_final_skj/
 
 Since mobile devices are years behind desktops and laptops in text rendering 
 capabilities.
 
 
 Wow, thats insane given the high prices charged for data by some phone 
 companies!
 ...but yes its probably the only way you can do it for those languages on a 
 lot of devices.
 
 

Esp. since in some countries, mobile access to internet is more common
that desktop access to internet, and data charges can be prohibitive.

most common approaches to language support on mobiles devices involves:

* jail breaking the device and hacking support into device
* using images
* using legacy encodings
* using pseudo-Unicode solutions (essentially an 8-bit legacy glyph
based encoding superimposed over a Unicode block).

Sometimes I feel I'm back in the 90s.

Andrew

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Re: [WSG] Mobile urls

2010-11-14 Thread Andrew Cunningham
Although the most interesting aspect of BBC mobile content esp. for
complex script languages is the choice between a textual version and an
image version:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/hindi/mobile/india/2010/11/101114_raja_resign_final_skj.shtml

http://www.bbc.co.uk/hindi/mobile/image/india/2010/11/101114_raja_resign_final_skj/

Since mobile devices are years behind desktops and laptops in text
rendering capabilities.

On 15/11/2010 12:22 PM, Jason Grant wrote:
 First time I have come across the first convention you outline Sam, but
 it is an interesting proposition.
 
 I have a feeling that it is a better way (in the long term) to treat
 content, rather than having a mobile specific site. 
 
 However, sticking an MP extension onto a page name is arguably nothing
 different to having that MP as a subdomain indicator (e.g.
 example.com/mp/page.html http://example.com/mp/page.html instead of
 example.com/pagemp.html http://example.com/pagemp.html). 
 
 BBC also seems to mix in stuff like
 this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/mobile/index.html 
 
 I don't think that currently there are 'generally accepted' ways of
 handling mobile content. There are at least 3 ways in which I can think
 people will handle mobile stuff right now and they are all as common as
 anything else. 
 
 Thanks,
 
 Jason 
 
 On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 1:05 AM, Sam Dwyer dwyer@abc.net.au
 mailto:dwyer@abc.net.au wrote:
 
 Does anyone have any thoughts on the best way to handle mobile
 versions of content? Specifically arguments for and against how the
 BBC handles different formats – including mobile, simply by
 appending a format type to the end of a canonical url.
 
 Ie.
 
 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007rsj5 is the base url
 
 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007rsj5.mp is the mobile version
 
 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007rsj5.xml is the same data in xml
 format
 
 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007rsj5.rdf is the rdf
 representation of the data
 
  
 
 VS the generally accepted alternative to doing mobile which is to
 provide a different domain, such as mob. Or m.
 
 Ie.
 
 http://m.smh.com.au/
 
 http://m.abc.net.au/
 
  
 
  
 
 Anyone have any thoughts on pros/cons of the two methodologies? Just
 curious to see if anyone else has implemented the BBC method?
 
  
 
 Cheers,
 
 Sam Dwyer
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
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Re: [WSG] A question about RTL

2010-08-16 Thread Andrew Cunningham
 
On Tue, August 17, 2010 14:41, Mathew Robertson wrote:
 The problem itself is that bidi is hard and there are some corner
 cases that arn't well defined - basically, if you want to display LTR
 text, on RTL layout, then you will probably find stuff that doesn't
 work right  (AFAIK this is sanctioned as undefined behaviour).


It doesn't help that different browsers have somewhat different behaviour
in this scenario.

There has been discussions on what is needed in HTML5 to get better bidi
support, but guess it will be a while before we see such things.

Currently the best approach is to use markup correctly, and use bidi
control characters as needed.

Embedding LTR only text in a RTL block is likely to cause grief, as does
RTL text in a LTR block

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Re: [WSG] Korean fonts

2010-07-09 Thread Andrew Cunningham
or

On 9/07/2010 3:51 PM, Matthew Pennell wrote:
 On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 12:33 AM, Brett Goulder brett.goul...@gmail.com
 mailto:brett.goul...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 font-family:돋움, Dotum, sans-serif;
 This should work, this is from Cyworld.



alternatively, assuming you aren't targeting Windows only:

AppleGothic (애플고딕) – default Korean font on Apple Mac OS X.
Dotum (돋움), DotumChe (돋움체), Gulim (굴림) – Korean version of the
fonts found in Microsoft Windows, all regions of Windows XP or later.
GulimChe (굴림체) – Distributed with all regions of Windows 2000 and later
Malgun Gothic (맑은 고딕) – distributed with Windows Vista as default
interface font.
UnDotum (은돋움) – one of Un-series fonts initially derived from Korean
LaTeX fonts with the same name. freely available and licensed under GPL.
included in a number of Linux distributions
Baekmuk Gulim (백묵굴림) – freely available and included in a number of
Linux distributions

Can't remember what the default Windows 7 korean font is.

so maybe:

font-family:
애플고딕, AppleGothic, 맑은 고딕, Malgun Gothic, 돋움, Dotum, 은돋
움, UnDotum, 백묵굴림, Baekmuk Gulim, sans-serif;

alternatively if you don't want a dodum typeface, but would prefer a
Myeongjoche style typeface the follwoing fonts are available:

Batang (바탕), BatangChe (바탕체), Gungsuh (궁서), GungsuhChe (궁서체)
UnBatang (은바탕), UnGungsuh (은궁서) - included in most Linux distributions
Baekmuk Batang (백묵 바탕) - included in most Linux distributions

so maybe something like:

font-family: 바탕, Batang, 은바탕, UnBatang, 백묵 바탕, Baekmuk
Batang, serif;


Andrew

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Re: [WSG] Korean fonts

2010-07-08 Thread Andrew Cunningham


On 9/07/2010 8:44 AM, David Hucklesby wrote:
 Can you please suggest a font stack suitable for a site that's entirely
 in Korean?
 

depends on who the audience is, where they are.

If most users are using Korean localised operating systems, then the
range of core fonts that can be used in a font stack is quite large.

For users suing a non-Korean OS, the choice of fonts are limited. And
you'd take into account variation in fonts across OS versions.


 I am assisting a student Web designer who is developing a site in
 Korean--a language with which I am entirely unfamiliar. Using a font
 stack out of Dreamweaver, none of which have any Korean glyphs AFAICT,
 browsers make their own choices, it seems. But IE's choice is a
 particularly ugly one...
 
 Many thanks for any help you can offer.
 
 Cordially,
 David
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RE: [WSG] HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives

2010-05-17 Thread Andrew Cunningham
On Tue, May 18, 2010 02:06, Ted Drake wrote:
 This has some nice descriptions about why you'd use certain strategies
 for alternate text. I'm gonna start throwing in some aria-describedby
 attributes right away.

Although what is lacking so far is good alternatives for text as distinct
from text alternatives.

Some of the discussions in the ICT4D area and in other avenues is the need
for support or oral rather than literate models for the web.

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Re: [WSG] Background music on web pages

2010-02-28 Thread Andrew Cunningham


On 28/02/2010 12:36 AM, Henrik Madsen wrote:
 
 80s Kevin? Mid 90s at the latest.
 
don't you mean mid-90s at the earliest?



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Re: [WSG] Background music on web pages

2010-02-28 Thread Andrew Cunningham
HI

On 28/02/2010 6:18 PM, Brett Goulder wrote:
 I would just point your client to some usability articles and educate
 them why background music is very bad.
 

although I tend to hate background music, even when it was in vogue way
back when 

There are valid accessibility reason for playing sound files on page load.

On one project i'm starting work on we are working with what UNESCO
tends to refer to as a lesser used language on the internet.

A lot of information needs to presented, but we also need to take into
account mother language literacy levels, which are quite low in the
target communities. So need to for usability and accessibility reasons
to look at non-textual alternatives to textual material.

So options to enable the playing of audio on page load is quite useful.

Doesn't get around that problem of site navigation, maybe sound snippets
and icons may help, but rendering complex semantics into small icons can
be difficult if not impossible.

This project has definitely shown me how much the web is mired in a
literate model, and am stuggling with how to adapt to a model based on
orality rather than literacy.


 My 2 cents would be to just not do it.

for music I'd agree, for other purposes 

 http://completeusability.com/regrettable-background-music/
 
 
 
 Bruce P wrote:
 Smal player and an off button one can find immediately is a
 prerequisite :)

 Bruce
 - Original Message - From: Lesley Lutomski
 ubu...@webaflame.co.uk
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:50 AM
 Subject: [WSG] Background music on web pages


 Hi all,

 I apologise if this is off-topic, but I'd really appreciate some advice.

 I have clients who insist they want background music on their Web
 site. I've tried to dissuade them, but without success.  What is the
 most acceptable/least intrusive method of doing this?  UK licensing
 requirements differ depending on whether the music is downloadable or
 not, so I need to sort out the method in order to advise them on the
 licences. I'm still hoping the complexities of the licensing system
 will succeed where I've failed and put them off the whole notion, but
 in case not, I'd be most grateful for some input here.

 Thank you.

 Lesley


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Re: [WSG] Back to basics!

2009-07-12 Thread Andrew Cunningham
I just use a modified keyboard layout that allows me to directly type 
necessary punctuation directly form the keyboard. no messing around with 
entities or NCRs.


Andrew

designer wrote:

Hi all,

Could anyone tell me where there is information regarding character 
code 'usage' that is simple.  I always use UTF-8 and, e.g., if I want 
to put a left quote in my text I can use quot; or #8220;  Which is 
recommended?


Any help, links etc most welcome. (I have googled, but . . .)

Thanks,

Bob



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Re: [WSG] utf8 character display problem

2009-07-07 Thread Andrew Cunningham
Richard Ishida's i18n checker is a useful tool for this type of case. 
Available at



http://rishida.net/tools/i18nchecker/index.php



Rimantas Liubertas wrote:


Here's the issue:

We are working on a site that incorporates Russian text. It displays OK on
our development server, but when transferring the files to the live server
we get garbled output.


…
  

However, the same file uploaded to the live server displays the last menu
item incorrectly:

http://www.imperial-russian-dating.com/utf8-test.php

The file has been saved as utf8 encoded in the editor (Komodo) and then
uploaded to each server.

Any ideas ?



There are headers sent by your live server:
Connection:close
Content-Length:862
Content-Type:text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Date:Tue, 07 Jul 2009 16:22:43 GMT
Server:Apache/2.2.3 (CentOS)
X-Powered-By:PHP/5.1.6

Take a look at Content-Type header: it specifies charset as iso-8859-1. Charset
specified in HTTP has preference over charset in META. If you have
access to your
server configuration look for AddDefaultCharset directive in Apache
config. You can either
change it to UTF or comment it out.

Regards,
Rimantas
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Re: [WSG] website fonts

2009-06-22 Thread Andrew Cunningham



Felix Miata wrote:


On 2009/06/22 12:58 (GMT+1000) James Ellis composed:

To put what you wrote another way, with a font family list such as your
example, the visitor is at the designer's mercy to see only the designer's
choice of fonts, instead of the visitor's, even if the visitor has spent big
money on high quality but uncommon fonts and chosen as default one of them.
  


I wish it was possible for users of all languages to set their preferred 
font for their language in all browsers. IT IS NOT possible. Doesn't 
matter which browser you use there are writing scripts for which a user 
can not set or specify a default font through the browsers user 
interface. The best you can do is write a stylesheet to override a sites 
CSS rules. But not all users are able to write their own stylesheets.


Andrew

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Re: [WSG] valid meta tags

2009-06-04 Thread Andrew Cunningham



Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote:



W3C suggests using meta http-equiv='content-language' in a subtly 
different way from the lang and xml:lang attributes:




There are important differences between meta 
http-equiv='content-language' and lang and xml:lang attributes


the lang and xml:lang attributes can only contain a single language

meta http-equiv='content-language' can contain a list of languages

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Re: [WSG] Where is browser compatibility in wcag?

2009-04-08 Thread Andrew Cunningham

I tend to follow a hierarchy of needs.


At the most basic level, the text needs to be correctly rendered.


This implies that a web site may be dependant on specific versions of 
operating systems or browsers. This is the reality of text layout/font 
rendering systems.



In theory supporting older browsers is good, but if the text will never 
be displayed or rendered in older browsers, the exercise in supporting 
older browsers becomes pointless and meaningless.



Andrew



Matthew Pennell wrote:

On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 1:31 AM, Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] 
aboeh...@addictivemedia.com.au 
mailto:aboeh...@addictivemedia.com.au wrote:



I went through WCAG 1 and WCAG 2, and I expected an appropriate
guideline to
show up under Priority 1 (or Level A), but nothing. Or am I missing
something in the obscure wording of the document that is WCAG?


A user's choice of technology is not an accessibility issue. If people 
want to view content on the web, they have to make sure they are using 
suitable hardware and software - using a 10-year-old browser doesn't 
qualify, IMO. Should I be able to view a site on my Commodore 64?


- Matthew


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Re: [WSG] Testing in IE7 both Win XP and Vista

2009-03-17 Thread Andrew Cunningham

testing on one should be enough.


Athough Vista has more fonts, the core fonts exist on both systems.


Any font differences (between versions 3.0.6 and 5.0 of core fonts) will 
only affect lesser used languages, and are mostly likely to be 
irrelevant in this case.



michael.brocking...@bt.com wrote:


The only difference that you are likely to see is going to be due to a
different set of default fonts - iirc a few more were introduced with
Vista.

Regards,
Mike

 


-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Peter Mount
Sent: 15 March 2009 01:07
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Testing in IE7 both Win XP and Vista

Hello

Is it necessary to test web sites in IE7 on both Win XP and Vista? Or is
it good enough to just test in IE7 on Vista?

I'm just worried about IE7 rendering differently on Win XP compared to
Vista.

Thanks


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Re: [WSG] Downloading Fonts

2008-12-08 Thread Andrew Cunningham
Just remember these are older versions of the fonts and will have
different character repertoires and differences in the OpenType tables.

But then again Vista and XP use different versions of the core fonts as well.


On Tue, December 9, 2008 8:25 am, Dave Hall wrote:
 On Mon, 2008-12-08 at 12:33 -0800, David Hucklesby wrote:
  On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Marvin Hunkin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
  Hi.
  rebuilding my site.
  and i have the following fonts in my style sheet.
 
  georgia, century school book, courrier, new courrier, comic ms, and
 others. but i
  notice, that on my local hard disk, or when i did have it on the web,
 but closed it
  for copyright issues. it was only displaying  arial. did try
 searching on google. but
  found a couple of sites, but did not work. so where can i download
 fonts for my site?

 On Mon, 8 Dec 2008 13:12:36 +1100, James Ducker replied:
  As a general rule you cannot use non-system fonts on the web, as the
 end user needs to
  have them installed as well (I think this is what you're asking?). One
 workaround is to
  use sIFR ( http://www.mikeindustries.com/blog/sifr/ ). Also, here is a
 list of fonts
  that are generally considered to be web safe:
 http://web.mit.edu/jmorzins/www/fonts.html
 

 Umm. Most of the fonts Marvin lists are available on most computers.
 I think he is saying that he does not have them on *his* computer, so
 wants to download them so he can see how each affects his design.

 I am on Mac, and would like to install some Windows-only fonts
 for myself. Anyone?

 I originally replied to Marvin offlist, but I will post a modified
 version of my response here as others seem interested in it.

 To get the standard Windows fonts, you need to grab them from
 sourceforge using the following instructions.

 Just append the filename to the end of the URL listed below, here is the
 list of files.

 andale32.exe
 arialb32.exe
 arial32.exe
 comic32.exe
 courie32.exe
 georgi32.exe
 georgi32.exe
 impact32.exe
 times32.exe
 trebuc32.exe
 verdan32.exe
 webdin32.exe

 URL: http://switch.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/corefonts/

 So for Arial you would use
 http://switch.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/corefonts/arialb32.exe

 The .exe file are windows cabinets.  Top extract the on a mac try
 http://cabextract.darwinports.com/ .  Note: I don't own a mac, but if
 you send me one I will happily test this on it :)

 You might also want to install the Liberation fonts
 https://fedorahosted.org/liberation-fonts/  which ship with most modern
 Linux distros and are released under the terms of the GPL (with an
 exemption which stops working using the fonts becoming subject to the
 GPL).

 Cheers

 Dave



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Re: [WSG] [at]font-face confusion

2008-07-14 Thread Andrew Cunningham
 
On Mon, July 14, 2008 10:56 pm, Breton Slivka wrote:


 Netscape version 6 (I think) supported @font-face, but support was
 removed from mozilla by the time firefox rolled around, and has not
 been added back to this day.


From memory Netscape used Bitstream's proprietary TrueDoc technology.

Other approaches from that period were server based solutions such as
GlyphGate.



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[WSG] font-size-adjust and related headaches

2008-07-02 Thread Andrew Cunningham

Hi all,

Looking for some advice. Currently working on a web project in Khmer and 
running into a problem with how to style text. For non-Windows Vista 
computers it is necessary to install a Khmer font. Most commonly the 
open source fonts developed by KhmerOS and a few others.


The problem is that Windows Vista ships with Khmer fonts that have been 
optimised as UI fonts. This results in a very different x-height value 
that those used in other Khmer fonts such as the KhmerOS fonts.


On windows Vista computers, in the absence of an alternative Khmer font 
specified in a font family declaration, web browsers will sue the 
default Vista Khmer font. The disparity between x-heights means that a 
font size that easy easy to read for a KhmerOS font is relatively 
illegible in the native Vista Khmer font. And a font size appropriate 
for Vista is very large in other fonts.


Obviously the CSS2 and CSS 3 property font-size-adjust is intended for 
this particular scenario. My understanding is that this property isn't 
included in CSS 2.1 nor does it widely supported by web browsers.


The only alternative i can thing of is to serve up different CSS rules 
if the user is on Vista. Is anyone aware of PHP code or other mechanisms 
for doing operating system detection, or could offer a more standards 
compliant alternative?


Wracking my brains here and seem to keep coming up against limitations.

Andrew

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RE: [WSG] HTML special characters coding

2008-06-18 Thread Andrew Cunningham
 

Yes Patrick is correct.

But that is the same with any character
encoing, everything needs to match up. Different scripting modules throw
in their own quirks into the mix.

How easy it is, or how
complex it is depends on how many languages and how many writing scripts
you need to support.

The more diverse the linguistic content,
the more important it becomes to get the internationalization architecture
right.

To create a monolingual environment in unicode is fairly
routine, just need to make sure everything is right at each step. 

A useful resource on migrating to unicode is available at
http://www.w3.org/International/articles/unicode-migration/

Andrew

On Wed, June 18, 2008 11:12 pm,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Can others with experience
with this please confirm (or not) what Patrick
 has said?
 Thanks.
 Kevin
 
 
 ---
Original Message ---

From:Patrick Lauke
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent:Wed 6/18/08  6:10 am
 To:wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subj:RE: [WSG] HTML special
characters coding
 
 Rick Lecoat
 
 So let me see if I have this right: as long as my page declares
an
 encoding (I use UTF-8) I don't need to encode the
entities, I
 can just
 type them straight into
the markup. Is that correct?
 
 Make sure that your
whole environment is UTF-8 (your code editor, any
 database input
forms /admin page you may have, etc). Then yes, it should
 all
work fine.
 
 Will it validate? (I normally use an
xhtml 1.0 strict doctype).
 
 Yes.
 

P
 
 Patrick H. Lauke
 Web Editor
 Enterprise  Development

University of Salford
 Room 113, Faraday House
 Salford,
Greater Manchester
 M5 4WT
 UK
 
 T
+44 (0) 161 295 4779
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 www.salford.ac.uk
 
 A GREATER MANCHESTER
UNIVERSITY
 
 

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Re: [WSG] HTML special characters coding

2008-06-18 Thread Andrew Cunningham
 


On Thu, June 19, 2008 12:40 am, T. R. Valentine wrote:

 Yes, Patrick is correct.
 
 I would add one
caveat. If you use UTF-8 (personally, I see no reason
 to
anything else), you should not use ASCII characters (hex) 81-9F /
 (dec) 129-159 which includes stuff like 151; for an em dash
and 150;
 for an en dash. Instead, either use the character
directly or use
 #8212; and #8211; for the em dash and
en dash respectively.
 

My understanding is that since
HTML 4.0 all numerical character references are defined in terms of the
document character set. For HTML4 onwards the document character set is
always Unicode regardless of the character encoding of the document. 

So in HTML4 onwards  en dash and em dash are #8211; and
#8212

You'd have to go back to HTML 3.2 for 150; and
151; to be considered en-dash and em-dash characters. And even then
HTML 3.2 used ISO-8859-1 specifically, so 150; and 151; would be
technically undefined.

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and Development Coordinator
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Re: [WSG] HTML special characters coding

2008-06-17 Thread Andrew Cunningham

Use amp; nbsp; lt; and gt;

All other characters should be actual characters.

Use a character encoding that contains all the characters you require.

Use of NCRs and other entities should be rare occurances for language 
challenged environments.


Andrew

kevin_erickson wrote:

Hello,
I am looking for advice on if the best way to code for special characters is to 
use the actual character or the attribute value or the alt code?
i.e. for the ampersand should one use  or amp;? Does it matter? I know that 
Dreamweaver automates some of this but what is the best practice?

Thank you

kevin


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Re: [WSG] HTML special characters coding

2008-06-17 Thread Andrew Cunningham

Patrick H. Lauke wrote:


Beyond the inbuilt entities I tend to just use the characters directly 
in the markup and specify UTF-8 encoding. Has been working reasonably 
well in all modern browsers.



LOL, i enjoyed the wording.

Considering the document character set of HTML4 is Unicode, if it can't 
be displayed in UTF-8 in a browser, then it can't be displayed using 
entitiies or NCRs either ;)





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Re: [WSG] HTML special characters coding

2008-06-17 Thread Andrew Cunningham

Matthew Holloway wrote:

Andrew Cunningham wrote:
  

LOL, i enjoyed the wording.

Considering the document character set of HTML4 is Unicode, if it
can't be displayed in UTF-8 in a browser, then it can't be displayed
using entitiies or NCRs either ;)



Generally I agree, although one good thing about entities (including
NCRs of course) is that it'll typically come up as a ? when it's
unknown rather than mangled as ’. So it'll break more gracefully.

  


a slight correction: NCRs by definition are always know. the question 
mark could inticate a number of different problems, not limited to, but 
including lack of appropriate fonts available (although thats more 
likely to be a missing/.notdef glyph rather than a question mark) or the 
character has been mangled by a script or module on a web site's back 
end, etc.


while seeing something like ’ instead is a completely different 
story, i.e. either the http header or the meta element in the web page 
are indicating the wrong encoding, or in some cases no encoding is 
declared. NCRs are defined in terms of the Document Character Set for 
HTML, and are thus independant of the character encoding used to display 
individual pages. But using the most appropraite character encoding for 
the document is the best approach.


Each is an example of very different problems or issues with a web page, 
and shouldn't be lumped in together.


But as I indicated in a previous email:

Use of NCRs and other entities should be rare occurances for language 
challenged environments


The reality is that some tools are very poor at handling Unicode, and 
NCRs are at times a necessary evil.




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RE: [WSG] Character Encoding Mismatch

2008-04-04 Thread Andrew Cunningham
 

The advice below is sufficient if your content is limited to characters in
the ISO-8859-1 repertoire If you are using any characters outside this
repertoire on the site, then i wouldn't use this approach.

As
indicated in a previous email, you could ask your web master to change the
default configuration of the Apache server. Unlikely to happen if other
sites are hosted on server since it may negatively impact on other
sites.

An alternative would be to use a .htaccess file. if the
administrators allow you to do this.

Info on this approach is
available at http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-htaccess-charset


Andrew


On Sat, April 5, 2008 6:52 am, Kepler
Gelotte wrote:
 Can someone tell me how to fix this W3C
warning - I'm new to
 understanding
 this part.

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.beverlywilson.com%2F
 
 
 
 Change this tag in your
head section:
 
 
 
 meta
http-equiv=content-type content=text/html;
charset=utf-8 /
 
 
 

To:
 
 
 
 meta
http-equiv=content-type content=text/html; charset=
iso-8859-1
 /
 
 
 
 Best regards,
 
 Kepler Gelotte
 
 Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.
 
 156 Normandy Dr.,
Piscataway, NJ 08854
 
 
http://www.neighborwebmaster.com www.neighborwebmaster.com
 
 phone/fax: (732) 302-0904
 

Thanks!
 
 

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RE: [WSG] PDF Accessibility

2008-02-22 Thread Andrew Cunningham
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Re: [WSG] Best Practice to Offer Different Formats of Documents

2008-02-17 Thread Andrew Cunningham
 


On Sun, February 17, 2008 10:02 pm, Thomas Thomassen wrote:
 Yes, IE doesn't handle attribute selectors.
 

There are always javascript workarounds for attribute selectors in
IE.

 However, I'd still be tempted to use it. The only
thing that happens is
 that
 IE6 doesn't display the
icons. Graceful degradation. Users with newer
 browsers will get
a better experience, but it'll still work with the older

browsers.
 



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Re: [WSG] Disabling Fonts in Font Stacks

2007-11-28 Thread Andrew Cunningham
We tend to use the Stylish extension internally to provide page or 
domain specific css overrides.


Allows us to use a sites default fonts on Windows Vista and override the 
fonts of the same web service on Windows XP.


For langauge support there are fundamental differences in the 3.0.x and 
5.0.x of the core windows fonts in terms of Unicode ranges supported, 
OpenType features available, etc.


Felix Miata wrote:

On 2007/11/28 18:23 (GMT) James Leslie apparently typed:


I've been looking over some inherited sites and noticed a very common
font-family declaration of arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif. I


Funny you should mention those three:
http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/Font/fonts-comps-verdariahelv


know that arial and verdana are very different in size so thought it
would be good to make sure there are not any problems with one font not
being available, but aside from changing the stylesheet or removing the
font, I don't seem to be able to do this.


I don't think anyone can without changing the stylesheet, but a fairly easy
way to make a temporary change is a toolbox option like Web Developer's edit
CSS.

Removing and replacing fonts at the system or user level is generally really
clumsy.


Does anyone know if there is a way of disabling a font at the browser
level, maybe a firefox plug-in, to be able to do quick checks on
legibility, sizing issues, layout, etc.


One way is to strip all all font-families from your CSS except for the
generics, serif, sans-serif  monospace. Then you need only change the family
specified as your browser default to see what that particular font works
like. Not specifying families leaves visitors an opportunity to see what they
prefer instead of what you specify, something few web sites do any more.

To make it possibly easier, leave font-families out of your default sheet(s),
and create an alternate stylesheet with nothing but each family you wish to
test with, selectable from every good browser's menu system. They very well
can all be left that way when the site goes public.


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Re: [WSG] multilingual website advice

2007-11-04 Thread Andrew Cunningham
A lot of Richard's material and material by other members of the W3C 
Core I18N WG are quite useful. Have a look at 
http://www.w3.org/International/


Some additional thoughts. You're approach really depends on the number 
of languages you need to support and the diversity of languages and 
writing scripts.  The greater the diversity and the number of languages 
the more care you need to take with your internationalization architecture.


You need to make sure that all the components of the web site is 
handling all languages and encodings correctly.


if you are lucky you'll be working with all the easy languages 
(European, Japanese, Chinese and Korean).


Otherwise, some additional points to consider:

* Preferred layouts of pages may change between languages. Cultural 
preferences will vary between dense and compact layouts on one hand to 
open and spacious layouts on the other. What constitutes good and 
optimal de sign is culture based.


* Your user interface needs to be mirrorable.

* Best to avoid CSS rules containing text-align: justify;

Proper justification really requires CSS3 support, and certain browsers 
have bugs rendering justified text and break complex script rendering.


* For most languages line breaking will be handled automatically 
(depending on the language and the operating system version in use). For 
some languages you may require makeshift or manual line breaking techniques.


* If you are supporting multiple languages and writing scripts within 
one site, consider using language specific styling using the language 
pseudo selector. IE can not use this CSS selector, but useful javascript 
libraries offer mechanisms for simulating support.


* Generic font family declarations are meaningless for some writing scripts.



Olly Hodgson wrote:

On 11/1/07, Andrew Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I'm asking for any gems of wisdom - links or first hand advice, mostly
technical, but anything that deals with the pitfalls in building
arabic websites would be great.


I found Richard Ishida's @media07 presentation, Designing for
International Users: Practical Tips rather enlightening. The audio
and slides are available from
http://www.vivabit.com/atmedia2007/europe/schedule/

Cheers,




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Re: [WSG] multilingual website advice

2007-11-04 Thread Andrew Cunningham
One other thing I forgot to emotion, if you are supporting East or West 
African languages, or Vietnamese then Unicode normalisation support will 
be critical.


Andrew

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Re: [WSG] multilingual website advice

2007-11-01 Thread Andrew Cunningham
Added to all the other advice already given, I'd also suggest that web 
typography be tailored for each language. How some of the tags render 
may need to be changed from language to language (not just font 
families, styles, weight, size and leading). Consider how the following 
tags should render: ol, ul, em, strong, cite.


Use of underlining on links may impact on some writing scripts.

On Windows many scripts do not have a monospaced font so be careful with 
styling pre, tt, textarea, input[type=”textarea”], option


using bold and italic text can be problematic since not all writing 
scripts on Windows come with italic, bold or bold italic faces.



Most of the hard word is actually in the admin/editorial interfaces, 
tracking language of articles. Allowing proper typographic and font 
display in editing environment, correct bidi behaviour in editing 
environment, buttons or mechanisms for marking up change of language (if 
you need to comply with WCAG 1.0) the ability to add dir attributes to 
elements in editing environment, etc.


Most CMS editing environments work well in monolingual environments, and 
may be well internationalised. But if you are adding content in multiple 
languages and writing scripts through a single editing environment more 
work may be needed to tweak the editing environment.



Andrew C

Andrew Harris wrote:

Hi all,
I've been asked to work on a multilingual website - including rtl scripts.
I've done bits and pieces before, but always other languages in
predominantly english websites.

Although I see the problems as mainly technical, I'm getting vibes
from others in the team about some mysterious 'cultural sensitivities'
that we'll have to consider as the audience in this case includes the
Islamic community. Perhaps foolishly, I had assumed that a sensibly
designed website, free of pr0n ads and political cartoons, would be
acceptable in most cultures, but maybe I'm just naive.

I'm asking for any gems of wisdom - links or first hand advice, mostly
technical, but anything that deals with the pitfalls in building
arabic websites would be great.

(I should point out the obvious one, we will be engaging native
speakers and expert editors - not simply relying on babelfish ;-)

Thanks in advance.



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Re: [WSG] Padding Hebrew in CGI POST

2007-10-16 Thread Andrew Cunningham
 

Hi 
 
i don't work with RTL languages often, so I may be
somewhat off track here but ...

 *** This is how I want it
to be passed (note the spaces on the right of
 _hebrew_field2 !
):
 

 I'd actually expect the space to be at the left
of the _hebrew_field2 in your example

Spaces are neutral and
inherit directionality, so in your input field you can type a space then a
Hebrew word and that is visually rendered as a space to the right of the
word, i.e. before the word.

It is important to keep
in mind the distinction between visual and logical ordering. The logical
ordering is space before the Hebrew word. 

In a LTR
environment as in the address bar of a web browser, the space which is
logically first will be displayed to the left of the Hebrew word, i.e.
before the Hebrew word.

If you are attempting to
see a space to the right of the Hebrew word in the address bar you are
actually looking for a space after the Hebrew word.

Out of curiosity, if you insert a space at the beginning of an English
field is the space preserved?

Also out of curiosity, is the
space at the beginning of a Hebrew value necessary?

Andrew

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Re: [WSG] How many of us are public and how many private?

2007-09-12 Thread Andrew Cunningham



John Horner wrote:

I've noticed that a lot of articles about web design seem to assume that
the web developer/designer is working in the commercial sector, and
often it's assumed that we're freelance too.


I'd argue that not only the articles, but some of the tools and CMS are 
more aimed at the corporate sector, and in some cases are poorly suited 
to the government sector.


And within the government sector there may be additional or different 
emphasis on various aspects of web design. One that comes to mind is teh 
Australian Federal Governments take on accessibility, and its relation 
to access and equity policies and its implications for developing 
content on government websites aimed at CALD communities.


Andrew

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Re: [WSG] lack of 'lang' attribute fails WAI

2007-09-09 Thread Andrew Cunningham
 


On Sun, September 9, 2007 3:33 pm, Tee G. Peng wrote:
 
 On Sep 8, 2007, at 2:40 AM, Andrew Cunningham wrote:
 
 Hi Andrew, I am curious, is there guideline from WCAG that state
 there should only be one language for the title?
 

Hi Tee,

since Patrick has answered it, I'll jump to
your last point:

 
 If a site contains English and
one or more of the above mentioned
 languages, it's likely at
least x% of users who visit the site may
 use a native search
engine, thus a valid reason to have more than one
 languages in
the metadata.
 

From an internationalization
perspective its important to always know what language you are working
with and anyone time.

For HTML and XHTML elements you can only
declare a single language for an element. This declaration not only
applies to contents off an element, but also to the values of associated
attributes of the element.

In the case of META elements, the
element will inherit the language declared on the HTML element or you can
declare an alternative language using the lang attribute.

Either way the values used in the meta element should be in the
inherited or declared language.

Also Chinese is one of the
small number of languages where adding or leaving out the language tag can
potentially effect the rendering of the text within a web browser. So
always a good idea to language tag in this case.

Andrew
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Re: [WSG] lack of 'lang' attribute fails WAI

2007-09-08 Thread Andrew Cunningham
 


On Sat, September 8, 2007 8:32 am, Tee G. Peng wrote:

 There is also this possibility that a site needs two languages in
one
 page, for instance, a site offers language learning.
 

There is nothing wrong with pages have two or more
languages for each page. Just as long as the CHANGE in langauge is marked
up.

To markup a change in language you need to have an initial
reference point. So one language has to be assigned as the primary
language. not surprising.

Haviung the same content on one page
is no real problem, it would be easy to have text in Chinese and
English.

The probability is that for each page only one
language would be used for the UI and navigation. Its also likely that the
metadata on the page is onely in one language. Its passible to have
metadata in more than one language, but it came become problematic. Anyway
the title element should realistically only have one langauge.

So regardless of whether the content in Chinese and English, one
language logically woiuld be morie prominant fior the page in question.

It becomes more obvious for pages that are bilingual English and
Arabic or English and Hebrew, etc. The User Interface would have a
dominate directionality left-to-right or right-to-left, the directionality
of the page would be reflected in the primary language.

Andrew

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Re: [WSG] Does the HTML working group have to take into account accessibility guidelines?

2007-08-30 Thread Andrew Cunningham
That's the crux with HTML 5. Some aspects of it will take us forward. 
And quite a few aspects will be backwards steps.


The accessibility and internationalization aspects of HTML 5 are going 
to be very interesting to say the least.


Andrew

Steven Faulkner wrote:

alastair campbell wrote:

 Does the HTML working group have to take into account accessibility 
guidelines?


 What I mean is, does it have to make alt mandatory because WCAG (any
 version) does?

I asked around and got some answers that may answer your question:

Charles McCathieNevile  wrote:

The answer to the question is that it has to satisfy WAI that its approach
to accessibility is reasonable and practical. As a sometime WAI member I
will be arguing that WAI is unlikely to accept anything that is a step
backwards from alt, and while it is possible to improve it the volume of
existing content and of existing guidance to use it means that it must be
supported even if there is a better approach proposed to replace it in the
future (like the case of img and object...)

Laura Carlson wrote:

The charter does say:
The HTML Working Group will cooperate with the Web Accessibility
Initiative to ensure that the deliverables will satisfy accessibility
requirements. Coordination with WAI will be primarily conducted
through the Protocol and Formats Working Group, but direct
coordination with other WAI groups, such as Web Content Accessibility
Guidelines Working Group and User Agent Accessibility Guidelines
Working Group, will also be done when appropriate.
http://www.w3.org/2007/03/HTML-WG-charter.html#wai


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Re: [WSG] setting fontsize in body

2007-08-07 Thread Andrew Cunningham
 


On Tue, August 7, 2007 11:24 pm, Felix Miata wrote:


Given that most browsers in most environments nominally default to
12pt,
 and
 that more people prefer 12pt than any other
size, any proposition that a
 site
 should be styled
such that most text is not the user's default size is

unsupportable.


At least for user's reading the Latin,
Cyrillic and Greek scripts. For other scripts preferred fonts sizes may be
either 14pt or 16pt depending on the script.

Although font
metrics can also impact on required font sizes.

Andrew
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Re: [WSG] Converting font size from pt to % or em

2007-05-28 Thread Andrew Cunningham

Philip Kiff wrote:

Felix Miata wrote:

BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/home/d/
body {font-size: 62.5%}

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ was recently overhauled. It used to be 13px.
Here's a look at before: http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/SS/bbcSS.html



Compare:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/
body {font-size: 62.5%}

http://news.bbc.co.uk/
body {font-size: 13px}



Lets add to the confusion, BBC publishes in multiple languages. If we 
take a look at the body text of news stories in some of the other 
languages covered on the BBC site:


Tamil12px
Pashto   15px
Hindi, Nepali13px/17px
Bengali  16px
Uzbek,Vietnamese 13px
Simplified Chinese   13px
Persian  15px/19px
Arabic   16px/19px

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Re: [WSG] Converting font size from pt to % or em

2007-05-27 Thread Andrew Cunningham

Christian Montoya wrote:



I hate to make a quick reply to a long post, but not all designers set
body font size to 62.5% when creating websites. It's enough to start
at 100% and set nested containers to fractions of that... just do the
math starting off from 16px. The point that Felix is making is that
setting the body to something small like 62.5% is very destructive,
since user stylesheets and user settings usually just override the
body rule (and ruin all your specific rules).



The practice of setting body font size to 62.5% has some very 
interesting assumptions built in. Any style sheet designed using this 
supposition would be inappropriate for a fully internationalised site.


Andrew

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Re: [WSG] Converting font size from pt to % or em

2007-05-27 Thread Andrew Cunningham

Paul Novitski wrote:

At 5/27/2007 07:44 PM, Andrew Cunningham wrote:
The practice of setting body font size to 62.5% has some very 
interesting assumptions built in. Any style sheet designed using this 
supposition would be inappropriate for a fully internationalised site.



Please elaborate on this point.  Is your statement based on the 
assumption that body text will be sized at 1em, or that the column 
widths will be fixed?




Neither. My assumption is that not all fonts in all scripts are measured 
the same way and mixed script situations are even more problematic.


For Thai body text at 1.0 em with English words or phrases within the 
text, the English content would need to be approximately 0.75em  to 
match the Thai text. Setting body type to a value significantly less 
that one em will make Thai and English text (if English text is resized) 
potentially illegible.


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Re: [WSG] Semantics and small

2007-05-16 Thread Andrew Cunningham

Jixor - Stephen I wrote:
To me small would imply of less importance, like a side note. if you 
just want text to be smaller for design purposes it shouldn't be in a small





would that imply big is more important?


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Re: [WSG] Semantics and small

2007-05-16 Thread Andrew Cunningham

Ben Buchanan wrote:


So in my culture at least, small sort of does what you want. But I
have no idea at all if the smaller text paradigm translates in the
slightest for other cultures. So it's just a tad weak, semantically
speaking :)


it doesn't.

And for some writing scripts, unless the end user has changed their 
browser preferences, small may end up being difficult to read at best or 
at worst illegible.


Although the issue with using the small element would be whether the 
size of text is a way of de-emphasising something or whether its purely 
a presentational style.


I suspect the tradition of typesetting of fine print owes more to trying 
to fit long legal text into a fixed or limited space (and maybe making 
it less readable, if you want to be suspicious) that to a systematic 
method of differentiating it from other text.


From my perspective the small element is not semantic. It is purely 
presentational. To make small semantic would mean that you'd have to 
divorce the semantic function from the presentational function (size of 
text) for web internationalization purposes. Forcing certain typographic 
traditions on all languages is a bad approach.


I have enough trouble with people assuming emphasised text is always 
visually rendered in an italic typeface, and that strongly emphasised 
text is always visually rendered in a bold weight, without throwing in 
small into the mix.


Andrew

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Re: [WSG] Semantics and small

2007-05-16 Thread Andrew Cunningham

Patrick H. Lauke wrote:

Andrew Cunningham wrote:

Jixor - Stephen I wrote:
To me small would imply of less importance, like a side note. if you 
just want text to be smaller for design purposes it shouldn't be in a 
small





would that imply big is more important?


big and small are both presentational in the HTML 4.1 spec. For 
important stuff, there are the semantic alternatives (em and 
strong), so those should be used. For less important, there currently 
isn't an alternative, so small (albeit presentational) may be the only 
option ... or just going for a span, which is semantically just as 
meaningless.




I was being rhetorical, although on the other hand you raise an 
interesting issue.


HTML5, rather than defining a new semantic equivalent, endows small 
with semantics post-facto (as they've done with a few other such 
instances). Not saying that I agree with that, and not saying that this 
should influence the choice to make *today* using HTML 4.1 (or XHTML 1.x).


I suspect that small would only be semantic markup in some languages 
in some instances, and more generally speaking its purely presentational 
(at least from an i18n perspective).


Andrew
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Re: [WSG] strong v's b , em v's i

2007-04-23 Thread Andrew Cunningham

Mordechai Peller wrote:

It should be noted that strong and em are not replacements for b 
and i as the former are semantic and not presentational, while the 
latter are presentational and not semantic. For example, while the 
default presentational representation of strong is bold for many 
languages, it's not the case for all.


And considering that bold text in some writing scripts would be ugly or 
worse illegible on a computer screen ...  likewise italic or oblique 
doesn't make much sense for some other scripts either.



And strong and em can be styled appropriately for each language 
being used.


Andrew
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Re: [WSG] Chinese translations and PHP includes

2006-03-20 Thread Andrew Cunningham



Lachlan Hunt wrote:


Use html lang=zh
Or, if you insist on XHTML, you *must* declare the xmlns and should use 
xml:lang as well.


html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; xml:lang=zh lang=zh




Such a language code would be ambiguous and could have unintended 
rendering consequences in differnet browsers.


For Simplified Chinese, it would be better to label it as zh-CN, not 
overly correct but has a lot of built in support in web broswers.


Likewise use zh-TW for Traditional Chinese.

Andrew
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[WSG] Re: Encoding test page

2006-03-14 Thread Andrew Cunningham
Keryx webb writes: 


Andrew Cunningham wrote:

Keryx webb writes:




That's what we were discussing. If a page is sent as XHTML, one could 
argue that it's supposed to be self-documenting, and that it might mean 
that the xml-prologue should be more important than the http-header. As my 
page proves, in FFox, MSIE and Opera (the three I've tested) that is not 
the case.


of course, since the specs give priority to the http header. 

Comes down to how the character encoding is declared and how servers are 
configured. And wether the correct character encoding is declared. 

I was wondering if you should have another test in there: XHTML document 
with no encoding declared in the http header or in a meta tag, and no xml 
declaration. Sent as html/text. 

In theory the docuemnt should only be in one of the unicode encodings, so 
without a BOM, the browser should try to render it as UTF-8. 

If the page is sent as application/xhtml+xml and no encoding has been 
specified in the http-header, the prologue will be used, though. If the 
page is sent as text/html Firefox will ignore the prologue even if I've 
excluded the encoding from the http-header.


Yep, thats as it should be. 


Andrew
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[WSG] Re: Encoding test page

2006-03-12 Thread Andrew Cunningham
Keryx webb writes: 



According to my tests Firefox *will* use the charset specified in the 
http-header over the one in the XML-prologue if a page is sent as 
application/xhtml+xml. (Or more exactly, regardless whether the page is 
sent as text/html or application/xhtml+xml.) As will Opera. 



isn't that the way the browsers are supposed to operate? That the 
http-header has precedence? 



Andrew Cunningham
Multicultural Officer
Public Libraries Unit, Vicnet
State Library of Victoria
Australia 


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[WSG] Re: Do you still support 4.0 browsers?

2006-02-27 Thread Andrew Cunningham
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 



But in all seriousness, if you were setting up a website for a client who 
has never been on the web before (no server logs to analyse) and  is 
marketing their gates/fencing business, would you try and support 4.0 
browsers? Has the time come to just have a disclaimer on the site stating 
support for 5.0 browsers or above?


Interesting. 

You support what you need to support. 

I haven't thought in terms of supporting 4.0 or even 5.0 browsers for a long 
time. If you're looking at version 4.0 and 5.0 of IE, for instance, you're 
talking about quite old operating systems. 

The projects we've been working on lately have operating system dependencies 
(due to font rendering technologies) that would make it pointless aiming for 
an IE version less than IE6. The versions of windows that shipped with those 
older versions of IE can not support the writing systems we are using. 

If we have to think in terms of what we're supporting, it generally isn't in 
terms of browser versions, rather we tend to plan in terms of operating 
systems or font rendering technologies we need to target or support. 

But then thats the nature of the projects we work on. 

One project we're planing, a small digital library, we probably will not 
support any version of IE. 


Andrew
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Re: [WSG] Web page translations

2006-02-23 Thread Andrew Cunningham

HI Zulema,

Zulema wrote:
Speaking of web page translations, I'm going to be getting copy decks of 
a web page[1] translated into six different languages. I'm on the right 
start by having the lines in my html code as specified in the email 
below. :-)


Now, to do the side nav (all I have so far), I had fun(!) because 
Dreamweaver doesn't render the characters of the Chinese, Japanese, and 
Korean languages. They show up as squares.


sounds like you haven't installed East Asian language support in your 
opertaing system. Everything you need should be on your OSes instalation 
media (depending on what OS you are using).


Squares tend to be used as missing glyph symbols, ie the chatacer you 
wnat to display isn't available in the font you are using to display teh 
page.



Does anyone have a suggestions as to what other app I can use to code 
the translated pages in? I would think some thing with support for more 
characters? Anyone have any suggestions (hopefully free)?


If its a very recent version of Dreamweaver, it should work for you. Try 
enaling your langauge support first.


There are a range of text editors and xml editors out there that are 
suitable, what to choose depends on what OS you are using.


Also, any idea how I can have the ALT attributes and the title bar show 
these characters as well in the browser? Or does that have to do with 
the user's computer  fonts installed?


it will be dependant on the end user having their OS support for these 
languages enabled, or having appropraite fonts available.


Andrew

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[WSG] Re: Multiple language usability query

2006-02-07 Thread Andrew Cunningham
Sarah Peeke (XERT) writes: 

Hi Philippe, 

Japanese (and other East-Asian) language support is installed by  
default on OS X.
Not so on Windows side of things (it comes with the install discs as  
an extra package).

I've been told that Firefox/Win tries to display the text
nevertheless.




If no Japanese fonts are installed, Fireofx can't display the charcaters. 

IE, Firefox and Opera have different approaches when trying to display text 
and the font being used doesn't have an appropriate glyph. 

IE will display the missing glyph character ... usually looks like a 
rectangle. Firefox will try to substitute the font for the speciifc 
character missing. Can result in some ugly text display issues with font 
changes within a word. 

Opera has different font preferences for each Unicode block. Not that some 
scripts like Latin have multiple blocks and Opera may be using different 
fonts for each of these bloacks. 

Also worth noting, with CJK text, in the absence of css specifying a font, 
the browser will chose the font based on langauge of the text. If the 
language of the text is not indicated then IE will try ot use a Japanese 
font to display CJK, Opera uses a Korean font instead, and I forget what 
Firefox does. 

Andrew 




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[WSG] Re: Multiple language usability query

2006-02-07 Thread Andrew Cunningham
Philippe Wittenbergh writes: 



On Feb 7, 2006, at 5:08 pm, Andrew Cunningham wrote:
Firefox Win takes the fonts as specified in the browser preferences 
(ContentFont colors advanced). 


It is actually somewhat more complicated than this. 

firstly the unicode range will indicate what font preferences to use, for 
CJK it will then be necessary to use language tags for the browser to use 
the font preferences. Firefox makes certain assumptions, without language 
tagging it will use a Japanese font for Simplified Chinese or Traditional 
Chinese, etc. 

Some of the languages I work with commonly use extended latin characters. If 
no information is available in the CSS, or if an inappropriate font is 
specified, then firefox will use the font specified in the font preferences. 
If the font in the font preferences doesn't have the necessary character, 
Firefox will choose another font to display that specific character, so for 
instance the word may render using Times New roman, but one character in 
that word may display using Code2000 for instance. I suspect that whats used 
ius based on the first font thats installed in your system that supports the 
appropriate code range, ie based on a system registry value in windows. 

If you're typing japanese and use an obscure character not in your default 
fonts, you may find this font switching occuring. I'll need to create a test 
page to confirm this. 

Although on your test page, the text is in kana, so all that would be 
necessary on your system would be a font that supported the kana, ie doesn't 
bneed to be an appropriate japanese font. 

All this depends on what version of Windows you are using. Behaviour will 
differ between versions of Windows. 

The terminology language packs implies you are using Windows 95/98/ME. IE 
on Win2000/XP do not use IE language packs, rather they use Windows' 
supplemental language support (using WinXP terminology). 


Andrew Cunningham
Multicultural Officer
Public Libraries Unit, Vicnet
State Library of Victoria
Australia 


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[WSG] Re: Websites in Different Languages

2006-02-03 Thread Andrew Cunningham


White Ash writes: 


I've designed a website, and we're going to be making an almost identical
Japanese version.  I'm not sure what is involved ~ is it as easy as
including the following at the top of the document: 

  


!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd; 

html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml xml:lang=ja lang=ja 

meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=Shift_JIS 



I'd make a distinction netween two scenarios: 

1) you are adapting your site for Japanese native speakers who are living in 
your country, or
2) you are localizing your website for an audience in Japan. 

For scenario 2, this would be a bare minimum. You'll also need to adjust 
your stylesheets to accomodate Japanses presentation and typography issues. 
You will also need to look at: 


* locale related issues,
* cultural appropriateness of presentation and images
* encoding issues with form submissions (if used)
* script encoding issues, if there are any scripts on your site which 
process information,
* etc. 


Andrew
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[WSG] Re: HTML Numeric and Named Entities

2006-01-11 Thread Andrew Cunningham
Lachlan Hunt writes: 


liorean wrote:


in HTML3.2 and 


  BASESET  ISO Registration Number 177//CHARSET
ISO/IEC 10646-1:1993 UCS-4 with
implementation level 3//ESC 2/5 2/15 4/6


Oh, you're absolutely right.  My mistake, ISO-646 is US-ASCII, I forgot 
that it formally changed to ISO-10646 in HTML 3.2.  However, ISO-10646 is 
mentioned in the prose of RFC 1866 several times and implementations are 
advised that numeric character references (beyond latin1) should reference 
those code points.  However, HTML 2 does formally use Latin 1 (ISO-8859-1) 
for char refs, but these code points are a subset of ISO-10646 anyway. 



although to be precise, it is ISO/IEC 10646-1:1993 rather than ISO/IEC 
10646-1, i.e. all characters added to ISO/IEC 10646-1:1993 are excluded. If 
my reading is correct. 

Similar issue exists with XML 1.0 

Andrew 


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Re: [WSG] BOM and charset declaration in CSS

2005-11-23 Thread Andrew Cunningham

Hi Paul,

Paul Noone wrote:

Who uses an encoding declaration at the head of their external CSS style
sheets?


if my stylesheet just uses the basic Latin range, I usually don't bother 
with an encoding declaration.


If the values of my id and class attributes fall outside that range 
or if I have unescaped text being inserted into the document via CSS 
then I'd add an encoding declaration.



And how do you get around the UTF-8 signature or byte order mark (BOM) that
some editors add to the document? 


Some info on BOM  at 
http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-utf8-bom for those interested.


Some editors will give you the option of saving with or without BOM. For 
this type of stuff I use emeditor.


There are various tools out there for striping the BOM, eg 
http://www.xs4all.nl/~mechiel/projects/bomstrip/


Andrew


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of russ - maxdesign
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2005 1:03 PM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: [WSG] Working Drafts: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2.0


From the W3C


The Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) Working Group has released
Working Drafts of the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2.0 [1] and HTML
Techniques for WCAG 2.0 [2] and a First Public Working Draft of
Understanding WCAG 2.0 [3]. Following WCAG makes Web content more accessible
to the vast majority of users, including people with disabilities and older
users, using many different devices including a wide variety of assistive
technology. Read about the Web Accessibility Initiative [4].

[1] http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-WCAG20-20051123/
[2] http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20051123/
[3] http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20051123/
[4] http://www.w3.org/WAI/

Thanks
Russ

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[WSG] OR 2006 Conference

2005-11-21 Thread Andrew Cunningham

Hi all,

thought some of you might be interested in a Conference in Melbourne in 
Feb. 2006.


http://openroad.net.au/conferences/2006/

The second day includes

Richard Ishida (W3C) on web internationalization

Russ Rolfe (Microsoft) on Windows Vista internationalization

Houman Pournasseh (Microsoft) on ASP and ASP.Net globalization

Alexi Paspalas (BBC), editorial workflow within a multilingual environment



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State Library of Victoria
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Re: [WSG] Bi-directional text

2005-11-17 Thread Andrew Cunningham

Umm

Paul Noone wrote:

Your greatest problem may be deciding which encoding to use. If your English
language text will be inlcined to use a broad spectrum of characters then it
may be prudent to use images for the Hebrew words and put the definition in
the alt tag.



images for words? sounds like an approach I'd expect in the mid to late 90s.

Andrew

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Re: [WSG] Bi-directional text

2005-11-17 Thread Andrew Cunningham



Mordechai Peller wrote:
I need to mark-up a document (XHTML) written in English, but which 
includes some Hebrew words. I'm trying to decide the following:


1. How should the words be marked-up: span, dfn, or just leave them 
in the flow?


Depends on the structure of your text and its purpose to soem extent. 
But considering you need to markup a change in language, I'd be inclined 
to use a span tag to apply the lang and xml:lang attributes.



2. Is the bdo element needed, or just the dir attribute?


Do NOT use BDO, this is a bidi override, and is used to change the 
default directionality of characters.


If it is a single work in hebrew amidst LTR text the you don't really 
need the dir attribute, since each Hebrew character is right to left 
anyway. If you were going to use a group of words or a phrase, then i'd 
wrap it in an appropriate element and indicate the dir, e.g.


span lang=he xml:lang=he dir=rtl/span

3. How should the transliteration and translation be included: title 
attribute or following in the flow?


Posisbly the best approach is to have the transliteration and 
translation in teh etxt rather than in an attribute value.


One of the nice things? or is it problematic things about HTML and XHTML 
is that a lang declaration applies not only to the content of the 
element, but also to the value of the attributes of the element.


A span with a 'lang=he' implies that the valuses of any alt or 
title attributes in this element are also written in Hebrew.



4. How's the browser support for bidi?


for most browsers, its more an OS issue.


5. What should be included in the head element?


not sure what you mean by this. All you should need to do is declare the 
encoding.


Have a look at

http://www.w3.org/International/resource-index.html#bidi

Andrew



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Re: [WSG] Bi-directional text

2005-11-17 Thread Andrew Cunningham

Hi Paul,

Paul Noone wrote:

Thanks for your comments, Andrew.

At least your other reply was of some use.

Just when _did_ this list stop being one of altruistic support for
accessibility issues and become a forum for personal insult?



My deepest apologies Paul, I wasn't meaning to be insulting. Sorry if it 
appeared that way.


Just my frustration level at the time I read the email.

When I read your email, I'd just finished doing a first pass of a review 
of Australian government websites with translated information, and I was 
quite frustrated at the peculiar interpretations of accessibility 
standards that seems to be out there.


For instance the number of government sites that have non-English 
information (even in languages that use the straight Latin alphabet) 
imbeded in GIFs or JPEGs is much higher that I though it would be.


The common practice is to create an image of text for one langauge 
audience, and provide the alt attribute text in a totally different 
language (ie English). In essence the audience of the document and the 
audience of the alt attribute are two discrete groups.


To compound the issue, most translations are provided as PDFs, with 
little effort to ensure that the text in the PDF is extractable or 
reusable, either by a screen reader, a PDF to HTML conversion process or 
even a PDF to TEXT conversion.


Within Australia, It would appear that when it comes to non-English 
language content, we tend to throw web standards out of the window.


Although there are some very good examples out there, on the whole there 
are many very bad examples.


Again, my apologies. I did not intend to offend.

To explain my comment that may have appear flipant or insulting: back in 
 mid-90s, using images of text was the only way to provide some 
languages on the web, since early web browsers could not render those 
languages. Another common practice was to deliberately identify the 
wrong encoding for the page and then specify fonts needed to render the 
page.


Web browser technologies and web standards have progressed dramatically 
since those days. And current use of images to represent non-English 
language text does not comply with web standards. I find it unfortunate 
that the practie is still used so much within Australia government sites.


Andrew



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Andrew Cunningham
Sent: Friday, 18 November 2005 11:14 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Bi-directional text

Umm

Paul Noone wrote:

Your greatest problem may be deciding which encoding to use. If your 
English language text will be inlcined to use a broad spectrum of 
characters then it may be prudent to use images for the Hebrew words 
and put the definition in the alt tag.





images for words? sounds like an approach I'd expect in the mid to late 90s.

Andrew

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Re: [WSG] Page Check: www.qm-consulting.co.uk/test/indextest

2005-11-06 Thread Andrew Cunningham



John S. Britsios wrote:

Hi Richard,

Very good work! Very nice web site!

My suggestions:

1. The XHTML 1.0 recommendation states that both lang and xml:lang 
attributes should be used when specifying the language of an element. 
The value of the xml:lang attribute takes precedence.


assuming the document is sent as text/html

2. The style attribute has been used but a default style sheet 
language has not been defined (note that HTML Validator would not see 
this declaration if it is sent as an HTTP header by a web server). HTML 
4.01 and XHTML require this for valid documents.
For example, include this in the head section of your document to 
specify text/css as the default style sheet language: meta 
http-equiv=Content-Style-Type content=text/css /. See 
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/styles.html#default-style


Good luck,

John

---
John S. Britsios
Web Architect  Marketing Consultant

Webnauts Net
Koblenzer Str. 37A
D-33613 Bielefeld
Germany

Tel.: (+49) 0521 - 3051020

Homepage: http://www.webnauts.net
Academy: http://academy.webnauts.net
Forums: http://forums.webnauts.net



QM Consulting Ltd wrote:

I have been following this list with interest for some time and I am 
currently working on creating my web site. I've done some testing on 
IE and Firefox and validated on w3. I would appreciate any feedback, 
regarding standards, semantics, usability, accessibility etc.
 
The page is at http://www.qm-consulting.co.uk/test/indextest.html
 
Thanks,
 
Richard Morton
 
 
 
 





--
Andrew Cunningham
e-Diversity and Content Infrastructure Solutions
Public Libraries Unit, Vicnet
State Library of Victoria
328 Swanston Street
Melbourne  VIC  3000
Australia

andrewc+AEA-vicnet.net.au

Ph. 3-8664-7430
Fax: 3-9639-2175

http://www.openroad.net.au/
http://www.libraries.vic.gov.au/
http://www.vicnet.net.au/
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