RE: [WSG] Google 'Alexander Calder' theme

2011-07-22 Thread Chris Taylor
Looking at it in Chrome it's two canvas elements (one for the animation, one 
for the shadow) with a noscript fallback:

canvas id=calder width=400 height=300 style=margin-left: -48px; 
z-index: 0; cursor: move; /canvas

canvas id=calder_shadows width=400 height=300 
style=margin-left:-48px;position:relative;top:-140px;z-index:-5/canvas

noscriptamp;lt;a 
href=/search?q=Alexander+Calderamp;amp;ct=calder11amp;amp;oi=ddle 
title=Alexander Calderamp;amp;#39;s 113th Birthday. Courtesy of Calder 
Foundation / ARS, NY.amp;gt;amp;lt;img id=hplogo 
src=/logos/2011/calder11.png alt=Alexander Calderamp;amp;#39;s 113th 
Birthday. Courtesy of Calder Foundation / ARS, 
NY.amp;gt;amp;lt;/aamp;gt;/noscript

Trying to decipher the JavaScript that runs this is pretty hard, though...

Chris


-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On 
Behalf Of grant_malcolm_bai...@westnet.com.au
Sent: 22 July 2011 07:16
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Google 'Alexander Calder' theme

Hello,

Today's Google home page theme seems to be a very good example of progressive 
enhancement. The mobile graphic is non-interactive in IE7 but looks fine. In 
Chrome, however, the graphic swings about in response to mouse movements (as 
does its shadow, not present for IE7).

Could anyone advise: (i) what technologies were used for this (canvas, etc.), 
and (ii) whether it is possible to save a working copy of the page locally in 
order to study its function (I've never had luck doing this with Google themes).

Thank you and regards,

Grant Bailey


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***

RE: [WSG] XHTML or HTML?

2010-11-11 Thread Chris Taylor
From: cat soul
Sent: 10 November 2010 23:32
 Great! Most everyone else is saying HTML5 is 10 years off and not to
 code for it, not to worry about it until then.

HTML5 as a finished, published spec may be 10 years off, but there are plenty 
of HTML5 features you can use right now with some careful handling of older 
(IE) browsers. The future is already among us.

In fact, this is HTML5-style - !doctype html - but will work fine in all 
browsers (as far as I know).

For more information check out:

http://html5doctor.com/how-to-use-html5-in-your-client-work-right-now/
http://diveintohtml5.org/
http://www.html5rocks.com/

And there's Andy Clarke's new book Hardboiled Web Design which deals with 
HTML5 and more: http://hardboiledwebdesign.com/

So is HTML5 ready, as far as http://ishtml5readyyet.com/ sees it isn't the 
same as can I use parts of this spec yet?

Chris


This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***



RE: [WSG] XHTML or HTML?

2010-11-11 Thread Chris Taylor
From: David Dorward
Sent: 11 November 2010 10:30

 On 11 Nov 2010, at 09:18, Chris Taylor wrote:
 In fact, this is HTML5-style - !doctype html - but will work fine in all 
 browsers (as far as I know).

  When you come to perform basic QA using a validator, on the other hand, you 
 get very different results.

Agreed, and it is a problem, but how much of that problem is validators not 
being updated? To be honest, if that's the only error I get from a validator 
I'd feel I was doing a decent job. The crux is, as it has always been, what 
actually happens in browsers themselves.

Chris



This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***



RE: [WSG] IE6 Finally Nearing Extinction [STATS]

2010-06-14 Thread Chris Taylor
I have stats from a few websites which show a similar picture:

Financial services site (5800 visitors over the last couple of months):

Internet Explorer  80.12%
Firefox9.52%
Safari 5.71%
Chrome 3.52%
Mozilla0.34%
Opera  0.29%

And for IE:

8.060.43%
7.027.03%
6.012.55%

An e-commerce site (just over 3000 visitors in the last month):

Internet Explorer  67.42%
Firefox20.42%
Safari 5.22%
Chrome 4.50%
Opera  1.44%

For which IE:

8.060.58%
7.024.95%
6.014.47%

However a small blogging site (4000 visitors over the last month) shows very 
different results:

Firefox49.42%
Internet Explorer  21.60%
Chrome 10.66%
Safari 7.51%
Opera  6.96%
Mozilla3.76%

Of which IE:

8.059.04%
7.026.37%
6.014.59%

So I'd say for most mainstream commercial sites, IE6 is definitely still a 
consideration.

Chris


This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com

***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***

RE: [WSG] Using Fonts

2009-09-14 Thread Chris Taylor
Marvin,

Sitepoint have a good article on font stacks which I've found to be a very easy 
way of making text look quite a bit better: 
http://www.sitepoint.com/article/eight-definitive-font-stacks/

Regards

Chris

 -Original Message-
 From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
 On Behalf Of Marvin Hunkin
 Sent: 12 September 2009 13:51
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: [WSG] Using Fonts

 hi.
 creating a asp dot net site in visual web developer express 2008.
 now, to look visually appealing , as well as functional.
 instead of just having the boring times new roman fonts.
 what fonts would you suggest i should use for the site.
 what is the most common fonts, that should be used.
 if any one has got any low vision at all.
 what would look really appealing on a page.
 for fonts.
 for all elements and controls on my pages i am creating with a friend.
 cheers Marvin.




 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
 ***



This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***



RE: [WSG] hr / or CSS3 Border Background

2009-08-10 Thread Chris Taylor
Hi,

tee said:
 However, seeing that HTML 5 has given hr tag  a new purpose:
 http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#the-hr-element
 http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#flow-content-0

 quote:
 The hr element represents a paragraph-level thematic break, e.g. a
 scene change in a story, or a transition to another topic within a
 section of a reference book.

In HTML5 doesn't the section element do that job? To be honest, I've always 
felt hr seems a strange element to use in any circumstance.

Chris


This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***



RE: [WSG] RE: Using background images on submit buttons

2009-06-24 Thread Chris Taylor
 On Behalf Of Rachel Radford
 Sent: 24 June 2009 14:51
 Subject: RE: [WSG] RE: Using background images on submit buttons
 I fear the only proper solution while using .Net is for the HTML that is
 produced to change!

Rachel, have you had a look at the CSS control adapters 
(http://www.asp.net/CssAdapters/)? I'm not sure which controls are in there, 
but that seems to be the most popular way to produce (more) valid HTML from 
.Net.

Chris


This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***



RE: [WSG] How to hide/show form questions with javascript while meeting WCAG 2?

2009-01-27 Thread Chris Taylor
Toggling the visibility of elements while respecting accessibility is one of 
the features of Performer (http://performerjs.org). A new site is currently in 
the works with much better documentation, but if you’re interested in using 
this drop me a line off-list and I’ll be glad to help.

Chris



From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On 
Behalf Of littler...@internode.on.net
Sent: 27 January 2009 05:19
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] How to hide/show form questions with javascript while meeting 
WCAG 2?

Hi everyone,

I am starting to learn javascript/jquery and would like to use it to hide 
questions on a form dependant on the answer to another question. I have seen 
plenty of working examples but am concerned that they wouldn't be accessible or 
comply with WCAG 2.0.

Does anyone have an example of best practice or can advise on how they deal 
with this issue?

The websites I have been looking at include:
http://www.quirksmode.org/dom/usableforms.html
http://www.frinity.com/posts/css/show-hide-form-field-selecting-a-radio-button-option

Thank you,
~Rachel

***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***

Click herehttps://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/wQw0zmjPoHdJTZGyOCrrhg== to report 
this email as spam.


This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com

***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***

RE: [WSG] JavaScript and Accessibility

2009-01-20 Thread Chris Taylor
 From: Chris Knowles
 I wouldn't be waiting for ARIA to get out of draft before using it :) It
 has pretty good support in browsers already so get stuck in. And because
 essentially all you are doing with ARIA is adding attributes to tags,
 the worst that can happen is your pages no longer validate - but who
 cares if you are making them more accessible?

I think validation is still important to ensure a consistent and future-proof 
experience across browsers, but ARIA is definitely needed. So seeing as ARIA 
attributes are there to offer a solution to problems introduced by JavaScript, 
why don't we use JavaScript to add the ARIA attributes. Using a similar idea to 
my Performer script [1] we could add these using CSS:

p id=updates class=aria-live-politeThis content will be updated by an 
AJAX-type script/p

A simple script could parse all elements in the DOM tree, and anything with the 
class aria-live-polite add the attribute aria-live with a value of 
polite. If this was done before any other JavaScript was run it would prepare 
the page with ARIA attributes before it is needed, whilst keeping the code 
validating. The resulting code in this example would be:

p id=updates class=aria-live-polite aria-live=politeThis content will 
be updated by an AJAX-type script/p

Of course, elements with ARIA classes could be styled differently if required:

.aria-live-polite { border: 1px dotted #CCC; }

If JavaScript is not present or disabled, the ARIA attributes will not get 
applied. But that won't be a problem, as no other JavaScript will be run anyway.

There are actually a lot of ARIA attribute variations so this idea may not 
scale very well, but for simple use it may be a suitable answer to the ARIA / 
validation problem.

Chris

[1] http://performerjs.org - add JavaScript features using just CSS classes and 
standard attributes. New website and lots more features coming very soon. Get 
in touch if you'd be interested in helping / testing.


This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com

***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***

RE: [WSG] JavaScript and Accessibility

2009-01-20 Thread Chris Taylor
 From: Chris Knowles
 yes, so you still run your code through the validator and make sure it
 only fails on the ARIA attributes -  that way you save yourself a whole
 lot of trouble. I don't really understand inserting attributes with
 javascript just so you get a tick from the validator? Maybe I'm missing
 something but what benefit does that bring? And validators will catch up
 at some point anyway.

Quite apart from the satisfaction I get from those green ticks (I loves me them 
green ticks), I think providing a validating page to the browser is an 
important part of creating a web that is accessible to all. We all know the 
problems that certain (ahem) browser manufacturers have with a 
properly-validating document, but if we have these document definitions in 
place we should use them.

Adding ARIA attributes using JavaScript is therefore part of progressive 
enhancement, much like using any AJAX-type features is - or at least should be. 
It's not ideal, I'm not pretending for one minute it is, but that's the web 
world we live in.

Hopefully, in the fullness of time, all these measures will become unnecessary 
and we'll all bask in the warm glow of browsers that natively handle all the 
goodies which are being waved in front of our noses (not just ARIA, CSS3, HTML5 
etc). But I'm not holding my breath for that day.

Chris


This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com

***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***

RE: [WSG] JavaScript and Accessibility

2009-01-20 Thread Chris Taylor
 -Original Message-
 From: Chris Knowles
 does that actually work? My understanding is that one problem ARIA
 addresses is that when javascript alters the DOM, assistive technologies
 don't necessarily get notified of the changes. So do they get notified
 that you've injected ARIA attributes?

The thought had crossed my mind, but unfortunately I have no reliable way to 
test it. If anyone wants to let us know whether this idea is a goer, I'd be 
very grateful.

Chris


This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com

***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***

RE: [WSG] JS patterns

2008-12-09 Thread Chris Taylor
From: Foskett, Mike
Subject: RE: [WSG] JS patterns
 Solution:
 Instead of adding an onclick to a heading, try adding a
 link to the heading then put the onclick on that.
 Use the id of the hidden div as the link href and you're
 done.
 Best practice observed and everyone's happy.

I agree entirely. There seems to be many developers discovering the joys of 
these JavaScript frameworks, but forgetting that we have a responsibility to 
use them wisely. With great power comes great responsibility, or something.

I put together a little script to act as a bridge between HTML and the 
prototype JavaScript library called Performer [1]. It allows you to use 
JavaScript effects (hide and show elements, do AJAX calls, limit textbox input 
length etc) with nothing more than CSS classes and standard element attributes 
(rel and rev, mainly). It's also meant to be keyboard-accessible, but more work 
is needed to get that perfect (any help will be greatly appreciated).

Despite this being quite an early version (currently 0.4 - please report any 
bugs!) I'm also trying to get a jQuery and mootools version developed. If this 
helps developers to use JavaScript in an accessible way then some good will 
come of it.

Chris

[1] http://performerjs.org


This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



RE: [WSG] Acceptable JavaScript Coding Practice?

2008-12-09 Thread Chris Taylor
Hi Brett,

The problem isn't this:

 var whatever = document.getElementById(layer);

I's this:

 onhover=namedFunction('timer')

What you're doing is mixing JavaScript in the HTML of the page. What you should 
do is use a listener on your link to see when it is hovered over. This code 
uses the prototype library [1] but you can do the same thing with other 
libraries such as jQuery and mootools. I recommend you take a look at one of 
those libraries to help you with this stuff. (Warning: I've not tested this 
code!)

In the head of your page:

script type=text/javascript

// listen for the page being loaded completely
Event.observe(window, 'load', HoverListener, false);

function HoverListener()
{
// for each link with the class 'hover'
$$('a.hover').each(function(element)
{
// listen for the 'mouseover' event on this link and execute 
the 'RunCode' function when it happens
Event.observe(element, 'mouseover', RunCode, false);
// also listen for the 'focus' event on this link for 
keyboard-compatibility
Event.observe(element, 'focus', RunCode, false);
});
}

function RunCode(e)
{
// get the element which triggered the event
var el = Event.findElement(e, 'A');

// now do your code! In this example I'm just alert()ing the text in 
the link
alert(el.innerHTML);
}

/script

You can apply the class hover to any link, it will execute the RunCode 
function above when that link is hovered over (or receives focus from a 
keyboard action):

a href=somepage.html class=hoverHover over this link.../a

Hope this helps,

Chris

[1] http://prototypejs.org


This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



RE: [WSG] Acceptable JavaScript Coding Practice?

2008-12-09 Thread Chris Taylor
 Is not acceptable to put event handlers like onhover and onclick
 in an HTML page? Sorry, but I am still learning JavaScript.

Not if you want to do things the Proper Way :0) The term for keeping JavaScript 
out of the HTML page is Unobtrusive JavaScript, and we do it for the same 
reasons we don't have inline (like p font=Arial) stuff. These links should 
help you out:

http://www.onlinetools.org/articles/unobtrusivejavascript/
http://icant.co.uk/articles/seven-rules-of-unobtrusive-javascript/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtrusive_JavaScript
http://adactio.com/atmedia2005/
http://www.sitepoint.com/article/unobtrusive-javascript/

Chris


This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



[WSG] RE: Tools or analytics to detect assistive devices

2008-11-20 Thread Chris Taylor
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of McLaughlin, Gail
Sent: 19 November 2008 16:50
 I'm wondering if anybody here knows of a way to use analytics data
 to help determine a good guess or idea of which users are using
 screen readers to access data, or having trouble with certain
 pages (thus making the case for doing usability and accessibility
 exercises)?

As screenreaders work within existing browsers (normally IE) it's very hard to 
detect them. To detect different browsers you'd use the user agent string, but 
screenreaders don't have user agent strings of their own.

At least that's as far as I (and a few other people [1]) am aware. Maybe one of 
the accessibility gurus on the list has a magic method to detect of a visitor 
is using a screenreader?

Chris

[1] http://www.accessifyforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3775


This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



[WSG] RE: Accessible date picker widget

2008-10-30 Thread Chris Taylor
Hi,

This is the one I've used with good success: 
http://www.frequency-decoder.com/2006/10/02/unobtrusive-date-picker-widgit-update.
 It has a lot of options set from the CSS classes of an input type=text 
element.

Chris



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jens-Uwe Korff
Sent: 30 October 2008 03:25
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Accessible date picker widget

Hi all,

I'm looking for an accessible widget that lets you select a date.

It should be lightweight (or compressible), not depend on frameworks and allow 
for keyboard use / screenreaders.

The ones I've found so far couldn't take all hurdles.

Thank you!

Cheers,
Jens

The information contained in this e-mail message and any accompanying files is 
or may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, 
dissemination, reliance, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail or any 
attached files is unauthorised. This e-mail is subject to copyright. No part of 
it should be reproduced, adapted or communicated without the written consent of 
the copyright owner. If you have received this e-mail in error please advise 
the sender immediately by return e-mail or telephone and delete all copies. 
Fairfax does not guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information 
contained in this e-mail or attached files. Internet communications are not 
secure, therefore Fairfax does not accept legal responsibility for the contents 
of this message or attached files.


Click here to report this email as spam.

***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***


This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



RE: [WSG] Re: Form (layout/accessibiity)

2008-07-09 Thread Chris Taylor
-Original Message-
From: John Unsworth
Sent: 09 July 2008 14:37

 It's a bit late of night, but if I read this right, if this section
 (as it is a form, right?) is wrapped in a fieldset you can then hide
 both labels and use legend to identify that's it's postcode

That's certainly an idea, but legends are notoriously difficult to style 
reliably across browsers. I'd go with something similar to Thierry's solution:

HTML:

label for=PostCode1Postcode:/label
input type=text class=postcode id=PostCode1 name=PostCode1  
maxlength=4 /
label for=PostCode2 class=hidesecond part of postcode:/label
input class=postcode type=text id=PostCode2 name=PostCode2  
maxlength=4 /

CSS:

.hide { left: :-em; overflow: hidden; }

Chris


This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



RE: [WSG] Browsers and Zooming

2008-07-04 Thread Chris Taylor
On 3 Jul 2008, at 22:16, Al Sparber wrote:

 When a block of text exceeds the viewport width, that means
 horizontal scrolling for *each line* - a royal PITA.

 I kid of think you are speaking for yourself ;-)

Rick Lecoat replied:

 Well, he's speaking for me as well.

Me too. I find that incredibly annoying, and it seems to happen in Bloglines a 
lot. Long lines are difficult enough to read without having to scroll.

Chris


This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



RE: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)?

2008-06-16 Thread Chris Taylor
Michael,

What if JavaScript isn't enabled or available on my smartphone? I presume your 
websites are not for people accessing the web while on the move, as well as 
people whose preference or requirement is to use a web client without 
JavaScript.

These standard[s] freaks you seem to think so little of *are* trying to make 
the web a better place for users - by levelling the playing field, making 
things fairer and ensuring we all stick to the same high standards. You can 
choose not to do that which is fine by me - my websites will gladly accept the 
visitors (and customers) who can't use yours.

Chris



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Persson
Sent: 16 June 2008 10:53
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)?


The best way is a form that also has a secure SPAM code or just make a image
that search engines cannot read...

I believe that people that does not have Javascript working are not
using internet
for the purpose i produce websites for, and im sorry we cant accept all
kind of users.
Also users has to follow the standard where website production also is
based in
the clients need and NOT on web standards.

Standard freaks are trying to make things better for web standards and
not for the clients
or visitors in general...

There is a war and it will always be there until understanding from
all parts are met.

Michael



James Leslie wrote:
 Why is this the best way? It means that anyone without JavaScript
 enabled cannot contact you. Spam is a pain, but not giving a user the
 basic opportunity of contacting you is a bigger problem IMO.
 I think mailto's and spam filters are the best way to go, as they
 are accessible for everyone.

 J

 
 *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Fuji kusaka
 *Sent:* 13 June 2008 05:23
 *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 *Subject:* Re: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)?

 Hi

 The best way is to encrypt the email address and make use of a js.
 This will avoid loads of problems specially spamming.

 This is simple just follow the instructions here

 http://jumk.de/nospam/stopspam.html


 Fuji


 On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 6:22 AM, tee [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 This is one of the thing I can't decide. At time, it seemed
 nothing wrong to have an email link (js encrypted, not mailto that
 shows email address nakely to Mr. Spam King), but as many people
 are actually using webmail, or sometimes access websites via
 public computer (internet cafe or library for instance), I find
 that having email link actually is causing usability for users.

 When client insists on having direct email link. What do you do so
 that it won't cause problem for above users?

 Thanks!

 tee



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




 --
 Fuji kusaka
 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***
 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



RE: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)?

2008-06-16 Thread Chris Taylor
Michael said:
 Are you willing to work 3 days extra for each project to implement the
 usability / accessibility regulations in order to follow the web standard
 in order to create a better website that the client will not pay for or
 even understand what they are paying for...??

I try to quote clients for the amount of time it will take me to do a website 
the right way. Following the standards and implementing solutions which fit in 
with the regulations (in the UK I believe there are laws covering accessible 
websites) is always the right way. Setting your pricing to cover this would be 
a good move.

I'm a realist as well, but I believe that you should only do things the 
non-standard, inaccessible, non-degradable, easy way when there's a very strong 
business reason to do it. Off the top of my head the only valid reason I can 
think of for ignoring the standards and accessibility would be when you're 
writing a private intranet with known client software and users.

Chris



This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



RE: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)?

2008-06-16 Thread Chris Taylor
Michael,

I understand where you're coming from, but your original message did not come 
across like that at all. Of course budgets will be cut, deadlines brought 
forward, other responsibilities heaped on you etc. That's the nature of 
business. However wherever possible standard and accessibility should be baked 
into sites right from the beginning. Doing that gives your clients a better 
solution, whether or not they understand it.

And where they don't understand it, what difference does it make to them? They 
don't need to know what goes on under the hood, just that it works and is the 
best solution for the current and future state of the web. If they do ask 
questions show them the Seybold presentation.

Chris


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Persson
Sent: 16 June 2008 14:34
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] a good practise for adding email link (mailto)?


Dear Chris,

I could not said it better myself. I am alone front end developer and
technical responsible for the projects
we are creating in the company i work. I have tried to implement web
standards, accessibility and usability
for the last 2 years but sometimes I am just chopped by the shoulders
because noone else have any idea
of what I am talking about...

Michael




Chris Taylor wrote:
 Michael said:

 Are you willing to work 3 days extra for each project to implement the
 usability / accessibility regulations in order to follow the web standard
 in order to create a better website that the client will not pay for or
 even understand what they are paying for...??


 I try to quote clients for the amount of time it will take me to do a website 
 the right way. Following the standards and implementing solutions which fit 
 in with the regulations (in the UK I believe there are laws covering 
 accessible websites) is always the right way. Setting your pricing to cover 
 this would be a good move.

 I'm a realist as well, but I believe that you should only do things the 
 non-standard, inaccessible, non-degradable, easy way when there's a very 
 strong business reason to do it. Off the top of my head the only valid reason 
 I can think of for ignoring the standards and accessibility would be when 
 you're writing a private intranet with known client software and users.

 Chris



 This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
 www.surfcontrol.com


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***






***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



RE: [WSG] Website Accessability Tools

2008-04-17 Thread Chris Taylor
The HTML Validator for Firefox works in offline mode, as far as I’m aware: 
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/249

Chris


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of dwain
Sent: 17 April 2008 05:11
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Website Accessability Tools

marvin,
here are some tools i use for accessibility and link checking.

http://www.tawdis.net  -- there is an offline accessibility checker here

http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file/fid,6974-order,1-page,1-c,alldownloads/description.html
  -- online and offline link checker xenu sleuth

http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/adesigner/download  -- offline or online 
accessibility checker

i have seen an offline html validator, but i can't remember where it is.

hth,
dwain
On 4/16/08, Marvin Hunkin [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi.
does any one know of any good accessible off line software
accessability tools, for checking broken links, that the right colour
is for the element on the page, like on my site, for the headings, you
have a red colour,a nd a good offline vallidator, if not connected to
the internet.
if any one can help, let me know and e-mail me privately off list.
cheers marvin.

--
Check out my home page at http://startrekcafe.stevesdomain.net/
Check out my Jaws Australia Group at http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/JawsOz/


--
Check out my home page at http://startrekcafe.stevesdomain.net/
Check out my Jaws Australia Group at http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/JawsOz/


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



--
dwain alford
The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression.  Kandinsky
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Click herehttps://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/wQw0zmjPoHdJTZGyOCrrhg== to report 
this email as spam.


This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com

***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

RE: [WSG] Shorthand rule for border?

2008-04-17 Thread Chris Taylor
Here's the shorthand for what you want to do:

.someClass
{
border: 1px solid #CCC;
border-width: 1px 2px 2px 1px; /* top, right, bottom, left */
border-bottom-color: #666;
border-right-color: #666;
}

Obviously if all your borders have the same color you can forget the last 2 
lines, which makes it pretty easy.

Chris



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cole Kuryakin
Sent: 17 April 2008 14:09
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Shorthand rule for border?


Hello All -

This is something that I've been wondering about for a long time - a shorthand 
rule for borders.

I often find myself in a situation where I have to define a different border 
size and/or color for two (or more) sides of an element so I'm always going 
through the drudgery of:

.someClass

{

border-top: 1px solid #CCC;

border-left: 1px solid #CCC;

border-bottom: 2px solid #666;

border-right: 2px solid #666;

}

Boy, that gets boring (not to mention tedious)... especially if I've got to do 
different rules to yield the same general effect. I've taken a look around the 
web and can't find any reference to some sort of short-hand condensation for 
borders (after all, we've got 'em for padding and margins, etc); and then 
again, maybe I'm not putting in the right keywords.

Interested in all enlightenment and/or links.

Cole


Click herehttps://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/wQw0zmjPoHdJTZGyOCrrhg== to report 
this email as spam.

***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***


This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***


RE: [WSG] seo / standards question

2008-04-09 Thread Chris Taylor
Hi,

I'd say use a list, for two reasons. Firstly you said im generating a 
stronglist/strong of page links, and secondly a heading should be a 
heading for something that comes after it in the content. So not this:

h3apage name/a/h3
!-- something should be here... --
h3apage name2/a/h3

But this would be good:

h3apage name/a/h3
pSome content describing page/p

h3apage name2/a/h3
pSome content describing page 2/p

Lists are the way to go, I think.

Chris



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kevin mcmonagle
Sent: 09 April 2008 14:36
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] seo / standards question

hi,
im generating a list of page links from my cms, its not really for a nav
bar just a section of the site that has a number of related articles.

im  using h2 for the over all list label but am wondering what to use
for the list break tags.

right now im using li with the title of each page like this.


h2section title/h2
ul
liapage name 1/a/li
liapage name 2/a/li
...
/ul



but im wondering if i should use h2's instead?

would google give more importance to the h2s?
plus it really is a list of page  headings so i guess semantically it
could go either way right?


so either:
h2section title/h2

h3apage name/a/h3
h3apage name2/a/h3
 ...


thanks in advance


-kevin mcmonagle

www.mcmonagledesign.com
www.donegalimage.com








***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



[WSG] Unobtrusive JavaScript (was: generate data)

2008-02-26 Thread Chris Taylor
Hi,

I've written a small set of helper functions that will allow you to 
unobtrusively add JavaScript to a web page. It's built on the back off the 
prototype library so you'll need that as well. See the details here: 
http://www.stillbreathing.co.uk/projects/performer/performer.html

A couple of examples. 1) If you want to create a toggling element you can do 
this:

  pa href=# class=togger rel=toggleelementToggle the visibility of 
the toggleelement element/a/p

  div class=hider id=toggleelementThis element will be toggleable (is 
that a word?)/div

The hider class on the toggleable element will hide the element only if JS is 
enabled, so if it's not the element will never be hidden. Of course you can add 
additional classes both to the link and the toggleable element, and you can set 
the href attribute of the link to whatever you want.

2) Loading remote content into an element (known as AJAX)

  pa href=# class=loader rel=targetelement rev=targetpage.phpLoad 
content/a/p

  p id=targetelementTarget element/p

When the link with class loader is clicked the element with the id 
targetelement will be filled with the content from the targetpage.php page.

If anyone needs any more information please get in touch.

Chris

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ray Leventhal
Sent: 25 February 2008 20:20
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] re: generate data

tee wrote:
 Hi, I really enjoyed reading this thread, especially the responses from
 Georg and Breton, and thank you Dwain for asking the question.

 I have heard a lot about unobtrusive js but thus far it's more like a
 buzzword to me because I understand no JS.

 Can one recommend which JS library is more accessibility user-friendly
 (is there such word?!). I know the jquery, mootool, prototype, Dojo,
 Extjs, YUI libraries, and have recently used the jquery for accordion
 menu  and prototype for glider (sliding gallery like the one in
 Panic.com), but I don't know enough to settle for one that is relatively
 small size and unobtrusive. Everybody claims he is unobtrusive, and I
 have difficulty to settle down with one.

 Thanks!
Hi tee,

An interesting thread indeed.

I can't recommend any JS libraries as I'm only now cutting my teeth on
JS, but I can wholeheartedly recommend a book on JS which focuses on
graceful degradation and manipulation of the DOM:

DOM Scripting: Web Design with JavaScript and the Document Object Model
  by Jeremy Keith


HTH,
-Ray



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



RE: [WSG] Unobtrusive JavaScript (was: generate data)

2008-02-26 Thread Chris Taylor
Good ideas Ben, thanks. I did think about that but went for the option which 
means the least amount of work for the developer. I don't pretend that 
Performer is suitable for really advanced stuff, just the basics. The reason I 
hook the events into the a element is because it gives the developer the 
opportunity to use the link as a link in the even of a non-JS user. For example:

pa href=index.php?toggle= toggleelement class=togger 
rel=toggleelementToggle the visibility of the toggleelement element/a/p

The querystring parameters in the href of this link could tell some server-side 
code to apply a class to the element. It's a simple example, but I'm sure you 
can see how this could be used to provide both a standard and enhanced 
interface to the user.

Chris


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Dodson
Sent: 26 February 2008 11:30
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Unobtrusive JavaScript (was: generate data)

Hi,

Although I'm a jQuery man myself, it's good to see someone actively encouraging 
the use of unobtrusive javascript although I would make one or two tweaks.  
Wouldn't it be better to add your class hooks to the p rather than to an a as 
at present, if the user had javascript disabled then they would have a link 
saying toggle that would take them to the top of the page if clicked.  Even 
better would be to insert the a using javascript so that if you have javascript 
disabled you don't even get the option to toggle visibility - the item is just 
there.

Just a thought!

Cheers,

Ben

--
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
w: http://www.bendodson.com/



On 26/02/2008, Chris Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,

I've written a small set of helper functions that will allow you to 
unobtrusively add JavaScript to a web page. It's built on the back off the 
prototype library so you'll need that as well. See the details here: 
http://www.stillbreathing.co.uk/projects/performer/performer.html

A couple of examples. 1) If you want to create a toggling element you can do 
this:

  pa href=# class=togger rel=toggleelementToggle the visibility of 
the toggleelement element/a/p

  div class=hider id=toggleelementThis element will be toggleable (is 
that a word?)/div

The hider class on the toggleable element will hide the element only if JS is 
enabled, so if it's not the element will never be hidden. Of course you can add 
additional classes both to the link and the toggleable element, and you can set 
the href attribute of the link to whatever you want.

2) Loading remote content into an element (known as AJAX)

  pa href=# class=loader rel=targetelement rev=targetpage.phpLoad 
content/a/p

  p id=targetelementTarget element/p

When the link with class loader is clicked the element with the id 
targetelement will be filled with the content from the targetpage.php page.

If anyone needs any more information please get in touch.

Chris

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Ray Leventhal
Sent: 25 February 2008 20:20
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgmailto:wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] re: generate data

tee wrote:
 Hi, I really enjoyed reading this thread, especially the responses from
 Georg and Breton, and thank you Dwain for asking the question.

 I have heard a lot about unobtrusive js but thus far it's more like a
 buzzword to me because I understand no JS.

 Can one recommend which JS library is more accessibility user-friendly
 (is there such word?!). I know the jquery, mootool, prototype, Dojo,
 Extjs, YUI libraries, and have recently used the jquery for accordion
 menu  and prototype for glider (sliding gallery like the one in
 Panic.comhttp://Panic.com), but I don't know enough to settle for one that 
 is relatively
 small size and unobtrusive. Everybody claims he is unobtrusive, and I
 have difficulty to settle down with one.

 Thanks!
Hi tee,

An interesting thread indeed.

I can't recommend any JS libraries as I'm only now cutting my teeth on
JS, but I can wholeheartedly recommend a book on JS which focuses on
graceful degradation and manipulation of the DOM:

DOM Scripting: Web Design with JavaScript and the Document Object Model
  by Jeremy Keith


HTH,
-Ray



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.comhttp://www.surfcontrol.com


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED

RE: [WSG] Preventing copying of text from web page.

2007-12-21 Thread Chris Taylor
 From: Joe Ortenzi
 Sent: 21 December 2007 07:32

 Why not simply make people register for it? Then you
 have their details and if you make the registration
 process intelligent, they will be aware they are being
 tracked and more likely to behave. All sorts of benefits
 and if the discussion forum is inside there as well then
 you can even claim some web 2.0-ness as an added benefit
 of registration!

This to me seems like a good option, and by registering someone you could then 
give them a doctored version of the data including unique information to tie 
that particular view of the data with their session. That unique ID could be in 
a table cell, in the title of the page, as a footer etc. If you found a copy of 
that data with the unique session ID anywhere you could trace it back to a 
date, time, IP address and registered user.

Of course the problem there is that anyone with a bit of HTML skill could 
remove the unique ID from the page. Still, it may help to deter casual copiers.

Chris


This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



RE: [WSG] Opera files antitrust against MS: standards one part

2007-12-14 Thread Chris Taylor
While I think the Opera complaint has firm ground to stand on, there's one 
thing in David's announcement to this group I'm unsure about.

 We think these actions are essential for the
 evolution of web standards and the open web,
 which Microsoft is hindering due to it's dominant
 market share controlling consumer choice in web
 browsers and trying to force web developers to
 adopt proprietary technologies and techniques (ie
 hacks, and things like Silverlight.)

Why was Silverlight included? As far as I am aware it's a plug-in much like 
Flash, so why would it be hindering the open web? Surely web developers have a 
choice whether to use that plug-in, just as they have the choice to use Flash. 
I'm not saying the IE/web standards thing is unfounded, but the Silverlight 
comment raises some concerns in my mind regarding Operas aims with this 
complaint.

Chris



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Storey
Sent: 14 December 2007 09:16
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Opera files antitrust against MS: standards one part

I just one to make one point about this case clear (although I'm not
involved in it in any way).  The complaint is manly about getting
Microsoft to follow accepted web standards more closely, and isn't
about money at all.  I believe we (Opera) have stated that we don't
want to earn any money as a result of this complaint.  Hopefully this
is not one of the cases where just lawyers win.

I'm hoping that IE8 comes out and surprises a lot of people with its
level of standards support.  That would be a win for everyone.

David

On 14 Dec 2007, at 00:05, James Ellis wrote:

 Hi

 I read this on the Opera feed this morning, I'm not sure how it
 will proceed
 but it mentions:

 The complaint describes how Microsoft is abusing its dominant
 position by
 tying its browser, Internet Explorer, to the Windows operating
 system and by
 hindering interoperability by not following accepted Web standards

 http://www.opera.com/pressreleases/en/2007/12/13/

 I wonder what the flow on effects of this would be internationally
 rather than
 just in the EU ? Of course there is the opinion that only lawyers
 win out of
 arguments like this but it would defnitely be a more interesting
 playground
 if IE wasn't bundled and supported accepted standards better.

 Cheers
 James


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***

David Storey
Chief Web Opener
Opera Software
Oslo, Norway

W: http://my.opera.com/dstorey
✉ : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
✆ : +47 24 16 42 26





***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com

***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

RE: [WSG] SIte Maps?

2007-11-21 Thread Chris Taylor
But even for a relatively small site having a sitemap will help some users find 
what they want quickly. Those people are the same ones who will scan the index 
of a book before flicking through the pages.

I've done that on this site: http://www.2plan.com/ despite it only being 15 
pages or so. Does anyone think that is overkill?

Chris



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christian Montoya
Sent: 21 November 2007 14:26
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] SIte Maps?

On Nov 20, 2007 7:04 PM, Jermayn Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 In coming in late to the discussion:

 Do we really need a sitemap? I recently read an article were it talked
 that if all the seo was done properly and it was smallish, you
 probably do not need a sitemap.


I remember that article too. It was saying that a sitemap is meant to
expose pages of your site that are difficult to reach for a search
spider that starts at the homepage. If you have a working  link
structure and anyone can reach any page of your site by just following
all the links, everything is already exposed and you don't need a
sitemap.

--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.net


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



RE: [WSG] Social Networking Site Software / Script

2007-11-09 Thread Chris Taylor
There's a new project by the name of Buddypress which is a open source social 
networking platform build on Wordpress MU. I believe Andy is trying to make it 
as standards-compliant as possible. See it at http://buddypress.com.

Chris



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of varun krishnan
Sent: 09 November 2007 12:17
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Social Networking Site Software / Script

check http://www.phpfox.com/

On Nov 9, 2007 5:46 PM, varun krishnan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 but pligg is just for social bookmarking and not much into social networking

 Varun


 On Nov 9, 2007 5:32 PM, Dave Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Vanilla is definitely the most standards compliant forum software I've seen.
 
  If you wanted to go down the social networking/bookmarking site route then
  there's some software called pligg which I believe the likes of digg and
  sphinn use.
 
  http://www.pligg.com/
 
 
 
 
  On 09/11/2007, Rahul Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:
   On 09-Nov-07, at 5:04 PM, Web Dandy Design wrote:
Discussion Forums.
   Vanilla [1] seems to be an interesting project, which aims to be a
   standards-based discussion forum. I seem to remember having little
   difficulty in installing the software, though I haven't experimented
   with styling it yet.
  
   Best,
 - Rahul.
  
   [1] http://getvanilla.com/
  
  
   ***
   List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
   Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
   Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   ***
  
  
 
 
  ***
  List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
  Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
  Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  ***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***






This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
www.surfcontrol.com


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



RE: [WSG] Select that goes to a new URL

2007-07-10 Thread Chris Taylor
Your select name attribute is New_URL but you're looking for a POST
attribute called id. Change your PHP script to $_POST[New_URL] and it
should work.

Chris



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Paul Collins
Sent: 10 July 2007 15:58
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Select that goes to a new URL

Hi all,

This should be pretty basic stuff, but coding the forms can be a bit
above me sometimes :) I've hunted around and can't seem to find the
answer, so here goes...

I've got a select box, with a bunch of options that need to go to
another page in the website when the go button is clicked. I'm running
this on my localhost, so not sure if the CGI scripts are all there, I
am running PHP though, so it would be ideal to set it up that way.

Here is my code, would appreciate any links/advice.  Cheers


form action=post
action=http://localhost/includes/redirect.php; name=selectCourse
id=selectCourseForm
fieldset
select
name=New_URL

optionSelect a course/option
option
value=http://localhost/courses/artsAndMedia.php;Arts
amp; Media/option
option
value=http://localhost/courses/businessAndPublicServices.php;Business
amp; Public Services/option
option
value=http://localhost/courses/careTravelAndTourism.php;Care Travel
amp; Tourism/option
optionESOL
amp; Languages/option

optionHair, Beauty amp; Sport/option

optionHumanities amp; English/option
optionICT
amp; Maths/option

optionPerforming Arts amp; Media/option

optionSkills for life/option

optionScience/option
/select
input name=submit
type=submit id=goButton_replace value=Go/
/fieldset
/form


I've tried it with this redirect PHP script, but doesn't seem to work:

?php
header(Location:  . $_POST['id']);
?


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



RE: [WSG] Page Structure

2007-06-27 Thread Chris Taylor
I'd agree with the SEO expert, H1 should be saved for the most important
heading on a page - which is not generally the company name. So in your
example I'd say that Rugby World Cup 2007 Packages should be in a H1.

However that means it's probably not going to be the first heading element
on the page, which is frowned upon by some. Can anyone else expand on the
reasons for that?

Chris



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Web Man Walking
Sent: 27 June 2007 09:25
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Page Structure

Hello

I am about to start a new website and was given some advice by a SEO expert
who says the h1 on the page should be the most relevant thing to the page.
For example for a Sports Packages company I design the website for they
have:

Company Name
Tagline
Page Content

Which in my instance is:

Glory Days
tickets, accommodation  travel packages for major events throughout the uk,
europe and worldwide
Rugby World Cup 2007 Packages

How should this be marked up:

h1Glory Days/h1
h2tickets, accommodation  travel packages for major events throughout the
uk, europe and worldwide/h2
h3Rugby World Cup 2007 Packages/h3

However the Rugby World Cup 2007 is the actual page content, they say that
should be the h1 does anyone have a better suggestion as to how to deal
with this common problem?

Regards

Ed Henderson

Web Man Walking - web design  usability experts
t: 0131 669 8800
m: 0781 253 6964
f: 0797 062 1532
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
w: web-man-walking.com
a: 48 Eastfield, Edinburgh, EH15 2PN
skype: webmanwalking
msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
New technology, old fashioned service




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



RE: [WSG] Page Structure

2007-06-27 Thread Chris Taylor
Good point Tony. Your example with the branding in a p looks like the best
one for this situation. I'm certainly going to stick to that for future
projects.

Chris


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tony Crockford
Sent: 27 June 2007 10:09
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Page Structure

Chris Taylor wrote:

 However that means it's probably not going to be the first heading element
 on the page, which is frowned upon by some. Can anyone else expand on the
 reasons for that?

I think we need to be careful how we visualise page structure.

I prefer the pragmatic headed paper approach, which says that there's a 
header (branding) on every page, the content, and then a footer (often 
on every page)

using that concept, the heading structure begins with the content, not 
the branding.

can anyone explain why branding should be included in the page heading 
hierarchy?



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



RE: [WSG] Tackling tabular data + per row form input

2007-06-22 Thread Chris Taylor
 I could do what other frameworks I've worked
 with do and wrap the whole table in a form
 and name elements with a parseable delimiter...

 input type=text name=foo$row$1 ... /

This is the type of solution I've used in the past, and then put the save
button in the last column of each row, ideally with something like this:

button type=submit name=action value=123Save row/table

Where the value 123 is the number of the row that should be saved. My
server-side script then takes that number and gets all form fields where the
name ends with _123 (or similar). The major problem with this is that IE
messes up the value of button elements, so I've generally used this:

input type=submit name=action value=Save row #123

Then the server-side script takes the value of the action form field,
parses out the Save row # and uses the number that's left. It's not pretty
but it's the best I could come up with and it seems to have worked for a lot
of apps.

By the way, using that method you could also have input type=submit
name=action value=Save all rows at the top/bottom of the table which
the server-side script would then know to loop all form fields and save them
all. More complicated code-wise, but useful for users.

Hope that helps

Chris



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of C. Bergström
Sent: 22 June 2007 08:42
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Tackling tabular data + per row form input

Hopefully I'm missing something obvious here.. In .Net and Jave this is 
handled transparently within the framework and I haven't had to look at 
it in a while..  I'd really like a clean and valid html way to display 
tabular data, but also need per row ability to do form posts without 
using a js library preferred.


This snippet below works until the point when the table becomes more 
complex or the the text width varies widely between columns.  Source ref [0]

 !-- Tableless tables start --
div class=notSoWide
   div class=table
div class=th
 div class=tdItem/div
 div class=tdDescription/div
 div class=tdQty/div
 div class=tdPrice/div
 div class=td/div
 div class=td-clear-both/div
/div
!-- start repeater --
form action=cart.asp method=post class=cmxform
div class=tr
 div class=td%=rs(ProductID)%/div
 div class=td%=rs(ProductName)%/div
 div class=td%=rs(Quantity)%/div
 div class=td%=FormatCurrency(curPrice)%/div
 div class=td
input type=submit value=Remove 
name=Action class=submit /
input type=hidden name=CartID 
value=%=rs(CartID)% /
input type=hidden name=ProductID 
value=%=rs(ProductID)% /
 /div
 div class=td-clear-both/div
/div
/form
!-- loop --
/div
/div

Alternatively there's something like this.. which isn't valid html and 
completely out of the question..

  table
  form ... 
  tr
tdinput type=text...  //td
tdinput type=submit ... //td
  /tr
  /form

or something like this which can be made valid, but I then you come 
across an almost similar problem as with the div solution in that now 
columns aren't guaranteed to to line up.. Unless you start forcing 
width.. etc..

 table
tr
   td class=one-big-td 
  form
 table
.


I'm a bit out of my normal water on this and making a working mock-up 
prototype before actually write the app.. I could do what other 
frameworks I've worked with do and wrap the whole table in a form and 
name elements with a parseable delimiter...

 input type=text name=foo$row$1 ... /


I know this has been tackled before, but mostly looking for interesting 
feedback on how it was accomplished..

Cheers,

Christopher


[0] http://www.bernzilla.com/design/tables/table.html


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



RE: [WSG] Tackling tabular data + per row form input

2007-06-22 Thread Chris Taylor
 In this case I don't care about semantics as much as not
 having to do funky backend parsing and fighting css bugs
 because of the naming conventions in my controls..  
 Thankfully this will never see production and just 
 reminds me of the hackish days from the past..

Those hackish days, I remember them well.

To be honest I can't see another way round this. You've got a choice between
horribly complicated (but technically semantic) HTML, complex JavaScript
that could scupper some of your users, or a kludge of backend code.

I like doing the backend stuff (stop sniggering, children) so that's the
choice I make. But it could be a whole lot easier. Anyway, good luck.

Chris



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



RE: [WSG] Triggering POSTs with links?

2007-06-21 Thread Chris Taylor
Cheers, I thought that when I went back to it as well. I'll get that done
very soon.

Chris


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Thierry Koblentz
Sent: 20 June 2007 17:49
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Triggering POSTs with links?

 On Behalf Of Chris Taylor
 Have you tried the button element? As far as I know that can be
 styled
 pretty much how you want. I used it on this page:
 http://www.searchandgo.com/weather/United-States/New-York-City/ - the
 New
 York City exchange rates text on the left is a button.

Clever...
I'd add a cursor:pointer declaration to give pointing device users a clue
that this text is clickable.

---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com





***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



RE: [WSG] Triggering POSTs with links?

2007-06-20 Thread Chris Taylor
Have you tried the button element? As far as I know that can be styled
pretty much how you want. I used it on this page:
http://www.searchandgo.com/weather/United-States/New-York-City/ - the New
York City exchange rates text on the left is a button.

I may have missed the point of your question, of course. It happens
regularly with me.

Chris



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Richard Ishida
Sent: 20 June 2007 15:52
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Triggering POSTs with links?

I put together a box that expands to accommodate larger text in translation,
but I forgot that text on a submit button doesn't wrap :O 

Original:
http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-css-charset.en.php#endlinks
(see the box to the right)
First problematic translation:
http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-css-charset.fr.php#endlinks

I want the text Send us a comment to look like a link, but trigger a POST,
so I put the text in a submit button and styled it. Unfortunately the longer
translations won't wrap that way.

form action=/International/2007/06/surveyform.php method=post
pinput class=interaction value=Send us a comment type=submit/p
input name=docname value=/International/questions/qa-css-charset.en.php
type=hidden
input name=referer
value=http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-css-charset.fr.php;
type=hidden
input name=lang value=en type=hidden 
/form

Does anyone know a better way to do this?  I was hoping to avoid using
JavaScript, if possible.

Cheers,
RI



Richard Ishida
Internationalization Lead
W3C (World Wide Web Consortium)
 
http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/
http://www.w3.org/International/
http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ishida/
 



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



RE: [WSG] Back to the Future

2007-06-14 Thread Chris Taylor
Yes, I did think of that but it's actually an ASP.Net website so really
needs to be done in Visual Studio. I'm having great fun, as you can imagine.

Things are going to get even more interesting as I'm just about to install
Windows 3.11 on a virtual machine to test this stuff *for real*. I have
tissues ready and waiting in case I cry.

Chris
(30 years old today, but feeling at least twice that age)



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Alastair Campbell
Sent: 13 June 2007 19:34
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Back to the Future

Chris Taylor wrote:
 Thanks for the input everyone, it looks like old-school tables with inline
 styles is the way to go, unfortunately.

You may be right, if it were me, I'd install an old copy of Frontpage or
dreamweaver and use that... matching the era of the tool with the era of
the browser will probably make it less work for you.

Cheers,

-Alastair




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



[WSG] Back to the Future

2007-06-12 Thread Chris Taylor
Hi all,

I've been asked to write a website that MUST work in Netscape 4.03 and
IE 3 for Windows 3.1. When you've stopped laughing I'm afraid I have to
say I'm serious, and there's no chance at all that the people connecting
to the site will upgrade.

So, any tips to do this without reverting all the way back to 1996
tables and spacer gifs? Or am I doomed to non-standards hell?

Cheers, and wish me luck.

Chris


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



RE: [WSG] Back to the Future

2007-06-12 Thread Chris Taylor
Well, there isn't a look yet, as I haven't designed it. It needs to be as
simple as possible, so there's no really advanced stuff required and the
design will reflect that. It's an intranet system, so only available to
users with valid logins, hence it needs to work in a wide spread of
browsers.

My initial tests show that NN4.03 handles some CSS (float, background,
border, font etc) but not some important things (list-style, margin and
padding on lists). Is there a source for information about CSS support on
old browsers?

Thanks

Chris


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Dorward
Sent: 12 June 2007 17:09
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Back to the Future


On 12 Jun 2007, at 17:04, Chris Taylor wrote:
 I've been asked to write a website that MUST work in Netscape 4.03 and
 IE 3 for Windows 3.1. When you've stopped laughing I'm afraid I  
 have to
 say I'm serious, and there's no chance at all that the people  
 connecting
 to the site will upgrade.

 So, any tips to do this without reverting all the way back to 1996
 tables and spacer gifs? Or am I doomed to non-standards hell?

Does 'work' really mean 'look the same'?


-- 
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/
http://blog.dorward.me.uk/




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



RE: [WSG] div hiding and expanding

2007-05-23 Thread Chris Taylor
Hi Kevin,

The most obvious way to do this is using JavaScript. There are loads of
different JavaScript methods, however I've come up with a small library of
functions based on the Prototype framework that lets you do this kind of
this, completely unobtrusively and without non-standard markup.

Take a look here, it's free to use:
http://www.stillbreathing.co.uk/projects/performer/performer.html

Chris

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of kevin mcmonagle
Sent: 22 May 2007 16:39
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] div hiding and expanding

Hi,
Is there a way to do this unobtrusively and validly? see div ids:

div id=/wrapper/
div id=/visible all the time/  
  /div
div id=/hidden but expands when link clicked/,
/div
/div


div id=/wrapper/
div id=/visible all the time/  
  /div
div id=/hidden but expands when link clicked/,
/div
/div


The expanding div would push down the bottom border of the wrapper and 
expand to the height of its
content. It would be used for event listings that have 2 categories of 
content, one of which is very redundant and wouldn't need to be seen 
every time. Im not a fan of this kind of thing but in this case the 
content is very redundant.

-best
kevin




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



RE: [WSG] div hiding and expanding

2007-05-23 Thread Chris Taylor
Hi Kevin,

The most obvious way to do this is using JavaScript. There are loads of
different JavaScript methods, however I've come up with a small library of
functions based on the Prototype framework that lets you do this kind of
this, completely unobtrusively and without non-standard markup.

Take a look here, it's free to use:
http://www.stillbreathing.co.uk/projects/performer/performer.html

Chris

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of kevin mcmonagle
Sent: 22 May 2007 16:39
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] div hiding and expanding

Hi,
Is there a way to do this unobtrusively and validly? see div ids:

div id=/wrapper/
div id=/visible all the time/  
  /div
div id=/hidden but expands when link clicked/,
/div
/div


div id=/wrapper/
div id=/visible all the time/  
  /div
div id=/hidden but expands when link clicked/,
/div
/div


The expanding div would push down the bottom border of the wrapper and 
expand to the height of its
content. It would be used for event listings that have 2 categories of 
content, one of which is very redundant and wouldn't need to be seen 
every time. Im not a fan of this kind of thing but in this case the 
content is very redundant.

-best
kevin




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



RE: [WSG] Re: Website Directory Structure - Best Practice

2006-03-21 Thread Chris Taylor
I absolutely agree about dated structures, and this technique is well
used by millions of blogs around the web. Apache's mod_rewrite makes
this pretty easy, and can also handle very complex URI translations. The
bottom line for me is to end up with a URI that is obvious and easy for
the user to remember, and I make sure that the application does the hard
work in translating the URI to display the right information.

So, I tend to use this document structure most of the time:

/root/
  /images/ - all content images
  /styles/v1/ - CSS for this particular site version (CSS make it easy
to redesign sites without modifying the HTML)
  /styles/c1/images/ - background images, icons etc
  /page1/
  /page2/
  /page2/sub-page1/
  /page2/sub-page2/
  /page3/

With my CMS that uses static files I save all the content HTML in a
directory called /content/ with the file name corresponding to the page
it is meant to be displayed on. This makes it a simple matter for the
server-side script to find the right page and display it.

So I only use a-z, 0-9 and - (and /, obviously) in URIs, and
replace all the / with _ for the content files, like this:

  /page1/sub-page2/ - /content/page1_sub-page2.html

You may have guessed, for very large sites it's a whole lot easier to
use a database! I use this technique to also map navigation, so nested
menus (drop menus with sub-sub lists, such as About us  Profiles 
Chris) translate to the correct page (about-us/profiles/chris/). The
filesystem was designed as a system to store files, much like a database
is a system to store data, therefore it makes sense to logically group
related information into directories. The URI and the document that is
displayed do not necessarily have to be at exactly the same location.

So, I owe the developers of mod_rewrite (and the IIS version, URL
ReWrite - http://www.iismods.com/url-rewrite/index.htm) more beers than
I care to remember because they make it possible to redirect old
(deleted) pages. For example, I'm currently converting one of our
websites to CSS and wanted to redirect all old *.asp files to their
clean-url counterparts, and can do it with a handy 301 redirect. That
helps search engines as well as users.

(As an aside, I'm currently experimenting with this URI format as an
interface to a RESTful API, the domain just changes to
api.myapplication.com).

Anyway, there's my tuppence. YMMV!

Chris




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lachlan Hunt
Sent: 21 March 2006 03:58
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Re: Website Directory Structure - Best Practice

Richard Czeiger wrote:
 For example Latest Mars News for NASA, might be better served with 
 havng an index page with a linked archive of static URLs, or 
 permalinks for latest articles (like /mars/news/060320.html).

I fully agree with what you're saying, but just have one minor issue. 
Dates in file names should always use 4 digit years (or more after
y10k).  I'm sure you all remember the y2k bug, let's not suffer again
with a y2.1k bug.  It's best practice to use ISO-8601 dates (with or
without the hyphen), especially in file names and it has the advantage
that sorting by name also sorts by date.

e.g. /mars/news/2006-03-20
Or maybe:
/mars/2006/03/20/article-title

--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



RE: [WSG] Web design education

2006-02-14 Thread Chris Taylor
Wow, I seem to have kicked off quite a ruckus. From what has been said I
believe the situation isn't as bad as I thought, certainly no worse than
in business/industry. There is still a long way to go, but we're getting
there.

So, points to note:

1) Syllabus documents may be out of date, or just not quite in line with
what's actually being taught. Lesson: don't believe everything you read,
and believe the best until proven otherwise.

2) Some educators are resistant to change, just as some finance
directors/marketing departments/project managers are. Lesson: You can
lead a horse to water...

3) Many academic institutions are teaching and advocating web standards
to their students. Lesson: use the people doing it right as examples,
maybe a how web standards has improved our web design course document
would be useful.

And some things that I've been mulling over for quite a while. Is there
an international web design accreditation scheme, or some web master
driving licence? Is that one of the aims of a web designers
association/guild? And finally, what associations/guilds are you part
of? http://www.hwg.org/, http://www.gawds.org/, http://www.iwanet.org/,
and http://www.ukwda.org/ are the ones I'm aware of (there are others,
I'm sure).

thanks

Chris
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



RE: [WSG] Re: Web design education

2006-02-14 Thread Chris Taylor
Drew Whitworth said:

It does strike me though that the best response of the original poster
might have been a polite e-mail to me about it (which to be fair some
other posters did do) rather than ranting on a private list about how
terrible it all is. All the latter does is exacerbate the appearance of
WSG and similar fora as being cliquey. But that is by the by. The
feedback has been noted. 

==

Drew, I am sorry that the nature of my original post came across in such
an arrogant and ranty manner. That was not my attention, and I unfairly
picked on your documentation rather than widening my rant to all
organisations unwilling to move with the times - and that's not just
academia, but commerce, industry and business in general.

However I'm glad the the post started such an interesting discussion,
and I hope that in the future a) the good things that are happening will
continue to happen and b) I will learn to keep my big gob shut :0)

Regards

Chris Taylor
www.stillbreathing.co.uk

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



[WSG] Web design education

2006-02-13 Thread Chris Taylor
A large university here in the UK offers web design courses. But I don't
hold out much hope for the future when they have things like this in
their syllabus:

Without the use of tables, all web pages would have to be presented in
purely linear form. Many creative uses of the screen would be impossible
to achieve. Although tables are a little trickier than other effects
used in basic web design, it is mainly a matter of remembering that
HTML's first purpose is to structure the page; tables are just an
extension of this basic idea. Once you have mastered the basics, you can
get some very sophisticated effects with table tags.

(Taken from
http://www.leeds.ac.uk/acom/webdesign/materials/lesson4.html)

Has anyone attended this course? Is it really as bad as all that? To
what extent can students do it the right way without being penalised
from straying from the Official Course Documentation?

And, a larger question for us all: what are we as web standards and
accessibility evangelists to do about the continued ingorance and apathy
towards this vital subject, especially in academia? Let's hope that the
recent Target website court case in the US highlights the cause.

Chris Taylor
www.stillbreathing.co.uk
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



[WSG] CSS background problems in IE6

2006-01-20 Thread Chris Taylor
Hi,

I've very nearly finished the new design of my site, available at
http://www.stillbreathing.co.uk/design2006/ (css at
http://www.stillbreathing.co.uk/design2006/styles/chocolate_and_coffee/s
creen.css), however I have a problem in IE6/Win. The header background
(the bit with the sunflower) is being repeated, then doing all manner of
strange things when the menu is rolled over.

I've had a look through QuirksMode but not found quite the same problem.
Can the wise persons on this esteemed list please point me in the right
direction?

Many thanks

Chris Taylor
Senior Web Developer
---
Egton - Leading suppliers of ICT Infrastructure, application software 
value added services.
Telephone: 01132031636
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
---
Privileged and/or Confidential information may be contained in this
message. If you are not the original addressee indicated in this message
(or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not
copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, please delete this
message, and notify us immediately. Opinions, conclusions and other
information expressed in this message are not given or endorsed by my
firm nor can I conclude contracts on its behalf unless otherwise
indicated by an authorised representative independently of this message.

Egton reserves the right to monitor, intercept and (where appropriate)
read all incoming and outgoing communications. By replying to this
message and where necessary you are taken as being aware of and giving
consent to such monitoring, interception and reading.

Egton is a division of Egton Medical Information Systems Limited.
Registered in England. No 2117205.

Registered Office: Park House Mews, 77 Back Lane, Off Broadway,
Horsforth, Leeds, LS18 4RF
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



RE: [WSG] Educate the educators (was) Barclays standards redesign

2005-09-08 Thread Chris Taylor
   That's actually no different to being a student, with the
exception 
   that the lecturer has got a full time job in addition to having to

   learn all the stuff they have to then teach.
 
  ...and that's no different from having a full-time job as a
developer, 
  and having to research - and learn - all the new stuff.

 But you have to agree it is much easier to stay up-to-date if you work

 in the field every day and actually practically implement new
technologies.

Surely if you have a room full of 15 students, whose task it is to learn
about web development by building website, you have not just one or two
clients to try standards out on, but 15. In fact, if each student has
3 projects to do over a year-long course, surely then you have 3 x 15 =
45 different projects?

In which case I would say that the role of a web educator is to act as a
project manager or technical lead - a code shamen, if you will! - to
those students, guiding them into exploring the best way to achieve the
desired result. And that should mean regular trips to W3C, QuirksMode,
CSS Zen Garden etc etc.

Web development - particularly in regard to standards - is an ongoing
conversation, never a fixed set of rules.

Chris
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



RE: [WSG] Browsers as copilers (was) Barclays standards redesign

2005-09-08 Thread Chris Taylor
 Exactly. I was actually thinking the other day, browsers 
 should be more like compilers... they should refuse to parse 
 incorrect code. Then the enforcement would be on the output 
 end, too.

Perhaps some clever person could write a Firefox extension that does
this - if Chris Pederick is on this list maybe he wants to add this as
an option to his excellent Web Developer Toolbar? Or perhaps it could be
added as a mode for the FirefoxTIDY extension?

Screenshots of a browser displaying (X)HTML errors in the same manner
that a compiler does may get the message across that valid markup is
important to those that make the decisions about such things. I'd
certainly find it useful.

Chris
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



[WSG] Barclays standards redesign

2005-09-07 Thread Chris Taylor
Not sure if this has been flagged up anywhere else, but I noticed the
barclays website has had a CSS makeover: http://www.barclays.co.uk/.
It's great to see a huge company like this hauling themselves into the
21st century web-wise, and maybe it will be a kick up the backside for
other less forward-thinking banks.

They also have some (brief) information about their design here:
http://www.barclays.co.uk/accessibility/web_design.htm

regards
 
Chris Taylor
Senior Web Developer
---
Egton
A division of EMIS
Leading Providers of ICT Infrastructure, Applications and Value Added
Services
Tel: 0113 2031636
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Web: www.egton.net http://www.egton.net/ 
---
Privileged and/or Confidential information may be contained in this
message. If you are not the original addressee indicated in this message
(or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not
copy or deliver this message to anyone.  In such case, please delete
this message, and notify us immediately.  Opinions, conclusions and
other information expressed in this message are not given or endorsed by
my firm nor can I conclude contracts on its behalf unless otherwise
indicated by an authorised representative independently of this message.
Egton reserves the right to monitor, intercept and (where appropriate)
read all incoming and outgoing communications. By replying to this
message and where necessary you are taken as being aware of and giving
consent to such monitoring, interception and reading.

Egton is a division of Egton Medical Information Systems Limited.
Registered in England. No 2117205.
Registered Office: Park House Mews, 77 Back Lane, Off Broadway,
Horsforth, Leeds, LS18 4RF 
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



RE: [WSG] Learning The DOM

2005-07-19 Thread Chris Taylor
Jeremy,

 How much JavaScript do you know?

Enough to get myself in trouble! Reading Stuarts' book has enlightened
me to loads of really useful things, but I realise that as far as
scripting languages go (compared to, say, PHP or VBScript) I am just
scraping the surface of JavaScript.

 What kind of things about DOM Scripting need clarifying?

Reinforcement of unobtrusive techniques, including best practices and
standard code snippets. I'd like to see some more stuff about
bullet-proofing scripts as well, particularly when it comes to slower
computers and click-happy users.

 Do you want to see examples of cool stuff with a kind of DOM
Scripting for dummies style explanation or more sober articles with a
more geeky leaning?

Bit of both, really. DOM Scripting has a fairly high built-in cool
quotient, just because it makes things happen on the page. But learning
why and how something works, not just what it does and how to copy it,
is the key to becoming proficient in any area of development.

 Please share your personal experiences: what's your skill level with
JavaScript compared to say, CSS or XHTML? What's your opinion of
JavaScript?

Compared to (X)HTML and CSS I'm not really very adept at JavaScript,
however the few things I've done so far have been a lot easier to
complete than I thought they would be. My opinion of JavaScript: the
best days are yet to come.

Chris
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



RE: [WSG] are underscores a problem

2005-07-11 Thread Chris Taylor
On Jul 8, 2005, at 1:37 AM, Chris Taylor wrote:
 I've been using the dash and period in ID names a lot recently (part 
 of an unobtrusive DOM scripting set of functions I've been developing)

 and not found any problems yet in any of the Win browsers. Whether IDs

 formatted like this functionName.-fe-4r-6s-ef-s5-ef.2000 will work 
 in older browsers or different operating systems I'm kind of crossing 
 my fingers about!

Ben Curtis replied:
 By not found any problems I assume you mean that these IDs are only 
 referenced by your script, and not the CSS. JS only requires that IDs
are 
 strings. Trying to assign styles to your elements via CSS would be 
  problematic, since each period would be interpreted as a class name 
 indicator, and your middle classname starts with a hyphen (an illegal 
 start). But if you are only accessing the info via JS, then it should
be 
 fine.

Absolutely, and although it would be better to be able to use these IDs
for CSS, at the moment it's not essential. Actually, I could have
modified the IDs so they didn't have dashes in, but my JavaScript skills
gave up at that point.

Chris
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



RE: [WSG] are underscores a problem

2005-07-08 Thread Chris Taylor
I've been using the dash and period in ID names a lot recently (part of
an unobtrusive DOM scripting set of functions I've been developing) and
not found any problems yet in any of the Win browsers. Whether IDs
formatted like this functionName.-fe-4r-6s-ef-s5-ef.2000 will work in
older browsers or different operating systems I'm kind of crossing my
fingers about!

Chris

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter J. Farrell
Sent: 08 July 2005 01:25
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] are underscores a problem

Richard Czeiger wrote:

 Does that mean the best way to go fro ID, Class Names, Variables, 
 etc... is interCaps (also known as CamelCase or lowerCamelCase) ?

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CamelCase

 R

I've adopted lowerCamelCase for nearly everything of my programming
guideline except when dealing with databases (in which I use all lower
with typical underscores) and class names in Java.  As programmed other
languages before CSS.  Plus lowerCamelCase makes it easier to read than
a something named with a ton of underscores.

An example from today's work (non-CSS):
errorHandler.invalidPropertyName
vs
error_handler.invalid_property_name

Best,
.Peter

--
Peter J. Farrell :: Maestro Publishing

blog:: http://blog.maestropublishing.com
email   :: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Create boilerplate beans!
Check out the Mach-II Bean Creator - free download.
http://blog.maestropublishing.com/mach-ii_beaner.htm

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



RE: [WSG] javascript/DOM resources

2005-06-29 Thread Chris Taylor
As mentioned in a thread last week (?) the DHTML Utopia book is well
worth a read, and kudos to the author and publisher for making it.
However you should also check out the unobtrusive javascript site at
http://www.onlinetools.org/articles/unobtrusivejavascript/ (and the
others found at http://www.google.com/search?q=unobtrusive+javascript
are worth a look, too).

Seeing as there are now loads of tools being offered to simplify Ajax
development - Microsoft offered a new one today - it would be best for
us standardistas to get in on the act and make sure that things are done
properly before it gets too late. The last thing we want is for the
entire web community to start doing things the bad old way, it would be
like DHTML-Hell all over again...

Chris



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Denholm-Price
Sent: 29 June 2005 13:12
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] javascript/DOM resources

Hi Ted  [EMAIL PROTECTED],

Just trawling through list emails  this seems to have had no replies so
my 2p:

I'm sure I remember Jeremy Keith  (http://adactio.com/) proposing a
central archive of modern JS scripts but can't quite find it right now
... try starting from e.g.
http://adactio.com/journal/search.php?query=dom+scripting
(he told the @media audience that DOM Scripting is the way to throw
off the DHTML bad vibes...)

A few JS gurus met up after @media  PPK's site seems to be a good
starting point for ensuing discussion:
http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2005/06/you_shouldve_be_1.html

Googling for ajax dom scripting throws up loads, including:
http://www.andybudd.com/links/javascript_and_the_dom/index.php
and a mention of the Sitepoint book DHTML Utopia: Modern Web Design
Using JavaScript  DOM.

HTH,
  James

On 5/3/05, Drake, Ted C. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi All
 I'm in the middle of a site reconstruction. The backbone is ready, the

 style sheets are ready, what's next? The javascript. We are still 
 using a cookie script copyright 1996.
 
 I know there are tons of free javascript archives, but they are 
 equally filled with scripts that live in the old days of tag soup.
 
 Is there a resource for javascripts that are designed for 
 standards-compliant web sites. An archive of scripts that work with 
 DOM and degrade well in non-javascript enabled browsers?
 
 I would love to approach the scripting team and say, can we replace 
 this with this all-new javascript that will make our lives sooo much
better?
 
 Thanks
 
 
 
 **
 The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
 
  See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
  for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
 **
 

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



[WSG] Background image alignment - percentages and scalable elements

2005-06-27 Thread Chris Taylor
Hi,

I'm having difficult aligning a background image the way I want to. The
markup is like this:

div class=percent2019.65%/div

I have a collection of classes (called percent0 to percent100) which
have a nice gradiated background image. I'm trying to position the
background image on the left of the element so that it covers, in this
example, 20% of the element. As you will have guessed this is for a
statistics-type application.

I've tried all sorts - aligning left/right positive/negative margins
etc. As the element needs to be scalable the background should move as
well, but keep it's ratio with regard to the width of the element.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks

Chris
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



RE: [WSG] Background image alignment - percentages and scalable elements

2005-06-27 Thread Chris Taylor
Thanks everyone, I got it working. One again the standards ninjas prove
their worth!

Chris



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of russ - maxdesign
Sent: 27 June 2005 13:12
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: Re: [WSG] Background image alignment - percentages and scalable
elements

Hi Chris,

Not sure exactly what you mean but this quick sample may help:
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/percentage/

The background images scale based on viewport size.
Only tested on mac Safari...

If this is what you are after, the key is to create large images and use
percentages of the images too. In this case I used 1000px wide images
(due to laziness) but you should use wider ones in a real site to cover
very wide monitors.

Russ



 Hi,
 
 I'm having difficult aligning a background image the way I want to. 
 The markup is like this:
 
 div class=percent2019.65%/div
 
 I have a collection of classes (called percent0 to percent100) which 
 have a nice gradiated background image. I'm trying to position the 
 background image on the left of the element so that it covers, in this

 example, 20% of the element. As you will have guessed this is for a 
 statistics-type application.
 
 I've tried all sorts - aligning left/right positive/negative margins 
 etc. As the element needs to be scalable the background should move as

 well, but keep it's ratio with regard to the width of the element.
 
 Does anyone have any ideas?

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



RE: [WSG] Has anybody read these books about JavaScript/AJAX?

2005-06-24 Thread Chris Taylor
I've not read those, but I can recommend Stuar Langridge's excellent DHTML 
Utopia: Modern Web Design using JavaScript and DOM 
(http://www.sitepoint.com/books/dhtml1/) which covers pretty much all aspects 
of modern JavaScript development. And, what's more, stresses the use of 
unobtrusive JavaScript - which helps greatly in keeping documents clear of ugly 
code.

Definitely worth a read, I think.

Chris


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roberto Gorjão
Sent: 24 June 2005 08:47
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: [WSG] Has anybody read these books about JavaScript/AJAX?

Hi all,

I hope this question isn't off topic...

I've discovered two quite recent books about JavaScript with a special emphasis 
on advanced event handling with DOM Level 2 and its use both for separating 
behaviours from markup and building dynamic web applications using remote 
scripting techniques / AJAX. I was wondering if someone had already seen/read 
them and could provide a quick commentary, namely about which one would be 
preferable (if any) or if acquiring both would be a good choice for 
complementarity...

The books are:

*Beginning MySQL (Programmer to Programmer)* - Robert Sheldon

*Professional JavaScript for Web Developers* - Nicholas C. Zakas

Thanks!

Roberto

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



RE: [WSG] Element Properties Cheat Sheet

2005-06-13 Thread Chris Taylor
I presume everyone is aware of the 1-side-A4 cheatsheets available at 
http://www.ilovejackdaniels.com/cheat-sheets/? There's CSS, MySQL, mod_rewrite 
and PHP available for free.

Chris



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cole Kuryakin - 
x7m
Sent: 13 June 2005 10:00
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Element Properties Cheat Sheet

Thanks for the explanation Roberto, as well as the link.

Cole

- Original Message -
From: Roberto Gorjão [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Element Properties Cheat Sheet


 Hi Cole,

 As far as I know there is not, probably because browsers have 
 different implementations of CSS properties. I think that best way to 
 do it is to know the CSS properties and which elements they 
 theoretically apply to... and then experiment.

 Take your example - padding: 0; - for instance... Bottom line you should 
 not have to set this kind of rule because the default for any element 
 is no padding.

 W3C specifications say that Tables have content, padding, borders, 
 and margins. And Internal table elements generate rectangular boxes 
 with content and borders. Cells have padding as well. Internal table 
 elements do not have margins. 
 (http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/tables.html#q2)
 So, tables and cells should have padding, and they do, but IE normally 
 does not respect rules that cumulate table and cell padding 
 definitions, as happens in the following example:

 table style=padding:40px; border:1px solid black  tr td 
 style=padding:40px; border:1px solid black a/td tdb/td /tr 
 tr tdc/td tdd/td /tr /table

 Anyway, the W3Schools CSS2 Reference alerted to this fact, so theirs 
 is a good page to confirm eventual doubts:
 http://www.w3schools.com/css/pr_padding.asp

 I also think that this book is very useful: Cascading Style Sheets 
 2.0, Programmer's Reference by Eric Meyer.

 Roberto

 

 Cole Kuryakin - x7m wrote:

  Is there any guide or cheat sheet out there somewhere which gives 
  the exact properties of each html element which CAN be 
  altered/positioned/styled via CSS?
  Like I've been putting:
  margin: 0;
  padding: 0;
  on a default table rule set, but something I've just read indicates
  that tables don't have padding - so the padding rule for tables is 
  useless. I've been doing the same for trs, but something else I 
  came across said that tr's don't have margin or padding properties.
  I'm trying to streamline my stylesheets and would like to get rid of 
  any superflous rules that don't apply - or have no effect on - 
  specific elements.
  The easiest way I can think of to do this would be to reference some 
  kind of (easy to understand) document that says - or shows - that 
  you can set the margin of a table, but not the padding, etc.
  Cole

 **
 The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

  See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
  for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
 **




**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us

2005-06-13 Thread Chris Taylor
Great, yet another reason to make me depressed about not being there!
Please keep me in the loop about this, I'd be very interested in
attending/helping to organise.

Chris

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke
Sent: 12 June 2005 00:07
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us

Chris Taylor wrote:
 Anyone else in the UK want to have our own meeting and show the Ozzies

 how it's really done? ;0)

Can't spill the beans just yet, but there are plans currently being
worked on (and further discussed during the recent @media2005 event in
London) to set up a network for the organisation of this type of events
across the UK. Watch this space...

--
Patrick H. Lauke
_
re*dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-,
re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk |
www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us

2005-06-10 Thread Chris Taylor
I'm near Leeds as well, but I'd come to London for a meeting (probably not on a 
monthly basis, though). As someone has said, how do we go about organising 
this? Surely we just need a date and a venue - and if there's only a few people 
then anywhere that we can get a laptop and projector would do. Preferably with 
a pub nearby :0)

Alternatively, if there's a few of us up North, we could organise something 
nearby.

Chris




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lisa B. 
McLaughlin
Sent: 09 June 2005 20:03
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us

I live near Leeds and am a newbie with web standards.  I'd like to attend 
anyway if there is a meeting up north.
Lisa

Lisa B. McLaughlin, NCW
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
AllSpunUp
Web Designs for Small Businesses with Big Visions
 
 



**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us

2005-06-09 Thread Chris Taylor
Or, as it might be technically easier, providing an audio (MP3/OGG) file
of the seminars and the presentation slides would be great.

Anyone else in the UK want to have our own meeting and show the Ozzies
how it's really done? ;0)

Chris



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 09 June 2005 05:30
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us


Hey don't forget us folks up in Darwin, we may be in Australia but we
are
still miles away!   A webcast or streaming video would be great.

Cheers

***
Helen Rysavy
Web Designer
Teaching  Learning Development Group
Charles Darwin University, Northern Territory 0909
Tel: 8946 7779 Mobile: 0403 290 842
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
CRICOS Provider No: 00300K
***


 

  Adam Burmister

  (DSL AK)  To:
wsg@webstandardsgroup.org

  [EMAIL PROTECTED]cc:

  acom.co.nzSubject:  RE: [WSG] WSG
Meetings for the rest of us
  Sent by:

  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  sgroup.org

 

 

  09/06/2005 12:54 PM

  Please respond to

  wsg

 

 





Somebody should webcast the live event.

I'd love to attend in person, but I'm stuck in Auckland :( (Damn cold
too)!

Adam

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kazuhito Kidachi
Sent: Thursday, 9 June 2005 3:17 p.m.
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us

2005/6/9, Cole Kuryakin - x7m [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Man, oh man, would I love to attend some (pretty much all) of the
meetings,
 seminars and discussions being hosted/held by WSG - but they seem to
all be
 in Sydney.

Me too. I'm in Japan and I can understand what you feel. So, if some
resources like slides or short minutes are available for each meeting,
all of the rest of us would be happy, I believe.

BTW, now some people living in Tokyo are thinking about planning local
meeting as a part of WSG. So my question is, how to setup such a local
meeting. Is it only inputting time/place info on the WSG site?

Australia, Philippines and Japan are located in almost same time zone.
In future, we may share the same experience at the same time. It's just
my thought.

Kazuhito
--
Kazuhito Kidachi
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**






**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



RE: [WSG] A software question

2005-06-09 Thread Chris Taylor
I use TSW WebCoder (http://www.tsware.net/), which I found easier to get
to grips with than Nvu. It's a small payment for commercial use, but
well worth it, I think.

Is there a list of software (rather than just websites) available to
help people involved in standards/accessibility somewhere? If not is
that something that WSG could host?

Chris



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alan Trick
Sent: 09 June 2005 12:32
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] A software question

I don't think there's a really good answer to this question. It really
boils down to using what ever your comfortable with and will let you get
the job done.  Personally, I use plain text editors with syntax
highlighting and I hate Dreamweaver (i've used 2002), but others feel
differently and prefer drag-and-drop stuff. If you like Dreamweaver, but
you can't afford the money, you can always try Nvu
(http://www.nvu.com/), apparently it has fairly good standards support.


Kvnmcwebn wrote:

cant go wrong with dreamweaver mx 2004.
great style sheet integration.
pc version ships with top style lite and home site i think.
costs around 500 hundred quid.
-kvnmcwebn

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



[WSG] Valid characters in ID attribute

2005-06-07 Thread Chris Taylor
Hi,

I'm writing a function to do all manner of clever stuff and need to
create very complex ID attributes for links. As far as I know the only
valid characters you can use in an ID (and as a class name, too) are:

A-Z, a-z, 0-9, _, -

Is that true? Are there any other valid characters that I can use in my
IDs, without going the whole hog and creating a new DTD? Example of a
link, just to make it clear which bit I mean:

a href=index.html class=TheFunction
id=TheFunction_%6237%6882/34_923%4623%4-234+6+3-2343Click here to run
The Function/a

Many thanks in advance

Chris
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



RE: [WSG] Valid characters in ID attribute

2005-06-07 Thread Chris Taylor
Great, thanks. I'm very pleased that I can use periods and colons, that
makes it much easier. Because this system will only be reading the ID
through the DOM and not referring to it for style reasons I'm going to
stick with the underscores. However I'll remember that advice for the
future.

Many thanks.

Chris

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nick Gleitzman
Sent: 07 June 2005 14:02
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Valid characters in ID attribute


On 7 Jun 2005, at 9:35 PM, Ricci Angela wrote:

 But I'd avoid using underscore for id/class names... I've already had 
 intermitent bugs with IE6 because of it (specially for links).

Ditto for Safari... earlier versions, anyway. More recent versions may
have been fixed, but I avoid them (underscores) anyway.

N
___
Omnivision. Websight.
http://www.omnivision.com.au/

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



RE: [WSG] Valid characters in ID attribute

2005-06-07 Thread Chris Taylor
Thanks, obviously ideally I'd like my function to be XHTML-compliant as
well. Fortunately I've worked out a way I can do what I want to do using
just dashes, periods and alphanumeric characters.

Thanks for all the help.

Chris


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Robin Berjon
Sent: 07 June 2005 16:22
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Valid characters in ID attribute

Chris Taylor wrote:
 Great, thanks. I'm very pleased that I can use periods and colons, 
 that makes it much easier.

Not sure this applies to your case but note that colons are fine in HTML
but forbidden in XHTML.

--
Robin Berjon
   Senior Research Scientist
   Expway, http://expway.com/


**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



RE: Subject: DIVs and horizontal scroll -- WAS: RE: [WSG] the mysteries of float - i seek enlightenment

2005-05-27 Thread Chris Taylor
Thanks everyone. In the end I used Gunlaug's solution (slightly modified), and 
wrapped the calendar table in an extra DIV with a class of horizontalscroll:

.horizontalscroll
{
overflow: auto;
margin: 0 0 0 1em;
width: 95%;
_overflow-y: visible;
padding: 0 1em 1em 0;
}

Seems to work OK in FF 1.0.4, Opera 7.50, Mozilla 1.7.3 and IE 5.01, 5.5 and 6 
all under Windows XP. The _overflow-y bit seems to only affect IE, I'll have 
to do some reading up about that property.

Thanks again

Chris


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gunlaug Sørtun
Sent: 26 May 2005 17:46
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: Subject: DIVs and horizontal scroll -- WAS: RE: [WSG] the 
mysteries of float - i seek enlightenment

Chris Taylor wrote:

 I'm trying to get a very wide table to appear inside a DIV and scroll  
 horizontally, but not vertically. Take a look at 
 http://www.egton.net/yearview/index.html to see what I mean. What I 
 would like is for the calendar table to be horizontally scrollable 
 inside Tapes due in - Year View DIV. Eventually I'll be adding 
 additional information inside each days cell, so the DIV needs to be 
 able to resize vertically, yet not break in IE.

A quick solution - working, but need fine-tuning for your page.
Tested in Opera8, FF1.0 and IE6.

div id=pane2 style=overflow: auto; margin: 0 0 0 10px; float: left;
width: 60%; _overflow-y: visible; _padding-bottom: 1em;

This will auto-adjust no matter how much you put in there (within reason).

Note that your styles for #pane2 is still working. I'm just overriding some of 
them. Clean up later... :-)

regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



RE: [WSG] the mysteries of float - i seek enlightenment

2005-05-26 Thread Chris Taylor
Hi,

I'm trying to get a very wide table to appear inside a DIV and scroll
horizontally, but not vertically. Take a look at
http://www.egton.net/yearview/index.html to see what I mean. What I
would like is for the calendar table to be horizontally scrollable
inside Tapes due in - Year View DIV. Eventually I'll be adding
additional information inside each days cell, so the DIV needs to be
able to resize vertically, yet not break in IE.

I've tried various permutations of max-width/max-height and overflow,
but nothing seems to work. If anyone can help I'd be more than grateful.

Thanks

Chris
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



Subject: DIVs and horizontal scroll -- WAS: RE: [WSG] the mysteries of float - i seek enlightenment

2005-05-26 Thread Chris Taylor
Hi,

Posted this with an incorrect subject first time, sorry about that. The
end of the week looms and my brain is starting to shut down.

I'm trying to get a very wide table to appear inside a DIV and scroll
horizontally, but not vertically. Take a look at
http://www.egton.net/yearview/index.html to see what I mean. What I
would like is for the calendar table to be horizontally scrollable
inside Tapes due in - Year View DIV. Eventually I'll be adding
additional information inside each days cell, so the DIV needs to be
able to resize vertically, yet not break in IE.

I've tried various permutations of max-width/max-height and overflow,
but nothing seems to work. If anyone can help I'd be more than grateful.

Thanks

Chris
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



[WSG] Image alignment and text

2005-01-25 Thread Chris Taylor
Hi,

Is there a CSS equivalent for the age-old image properties
'align=left' and 'align=right'. When these are used any text that is
next to the image is automatically lined up with the top of the image.
Using 'float: left' keeps the text level with the bottom of the image.
Example:

Source:
pimg src=logo.png alt=The Company Name/p

Old-style:
pimg src=logo.png alt= align=leftThe Company Name/p

= correct display

New style:
style
img{
   float: left;
}
/style
pimg src=logo.png alt=The Company Name/p

= incorrect display

I know it sounds stupid, but I'm a bit stumped. Any help will be
gratefully received.

Thanks

Chris
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



RE: [WSG] Image alignment and text

2005-01-25 Thread Chris Taylor
Excellent, many thanks.

Chris
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gunlaug Sørtun
Sent: 25 January 2005 14:28
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Image alignment and text

Chris Taylor wrote:
 Is there a CSS equivalent for the age-old image properties 
 'align=left' and 'align=right'. When these are used any text that  
 is next to the image is automatically lined up with the top of the 
 image.

The way we usually do it looks more like this:
style
img{
float: left;
}
/style
img src=logo.png alt=
pThe Company Name/p

...where the entire paragraph flows up and align with the top of the image.

You can also make your image in a paragraph work by using vertical-align.
Some more about that here:
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visudet.html#propdef-vertical-align

regards
Georg
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



RE: [WSG] Popups

2005-01-13 Thread Chris Taylor
As I read your mail I was going to suggest the hidden DIV with a
show/hide toggle button, then there it was at the bottom. I try to stay
away from popup windows where I can. When I've needed to do this, and I
you have enough space on the page, I've shown the help in a
nicely-formatted (light yellow, grey border) box to the right of the
field, rather than below, then when people toggle the DIV it doesn't
break the flow of the form if they leave the DIV shown. Depends on the
amount of text you need show, I suppose.

Chris

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of david
Sent: 13 January 2005 12:50
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Popups

Here's the situation:

I've got a form that users fill out in order to add something to a
database...

Under each dt, there's the label for= element for each of the
input elements, and that works fine

But because of the layout of the page, the label values are kept
short, yes... there are title= attributes, but IE and FF don't show
the whole text

So I was thinking about doing what other sites do... and thats to put a
more info on this field link, people click on it, and a popup appears
with the minimum of browser UI chrome and jumps to the right section in
the code

Ordinarily, this would be achieved with the help of JavaScript and
Window.Open(), so much for cross-browser compatibility.

Then there's the target=_blank anchor attribute, but this is
disallowed by the DTD I'm using (XHTML1.1 w/ IFrame), that... plus it
doesn't offer a way to get rid of browser UI elements.

Does anyone have any alternatives?

I was thinking of having a JavaScript show/hide function with the
instructions and extra detail contained in a div style=visibility:
none;/div
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



[WSG] Site check

2005-01-07 Thread Chris Taylor
Hi,

I'd be very grateful if people could check this site, particularly on
Mac and Linux platforms. It seems to run OK in FireFox 1, Mozilla 1.7.3,
Opera 7.50 and IE 6, and it validates correctly. URL:
http://www.stgauderic.net/en/

It will eventually have some textual content, and be available in a
variety of languages. More information is available on request on the
underlying structure of the site. Any constructive criticism would be
greatly appreciated.

While I'm here I'd also like to know of a good mailing list regarding
database development and coding for websites and web applications -
MySQL, SQL Server, Access, XML etc. If anyone knows of one I'd
appreciate the info.

Thanks
 
Chris Taylor
Senior Web Developer
Egton.net
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



RE: [WSG] Site check www.stgauderic.net/en/

2005-01-07 Thread Chris Taylor
I agree in part with your first comment. The problem is that a lot of
the time (I would guess) most people want a complete test in a
browser/platform they don't have access to - useability, standards,
validity etc etc. BrowserCam is great, but doesn't give you any help
regarding useability - other pairs of eyes are what is needed. Therefore
a please check this in Mac/PC/WebTV/whatever is pretty valid, as far
as I'm concerned. 

I completely agree with your second point, I'll make sure I do that in
future.

ta

Chris

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rick Faaberg
Sent: 07 January 2005 10:51
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Site check

 if people could check this site

My response has nothing to do with your's or anybody's specific request
but I think folks should specify something wrt web standards that they
are requesting evaluation or feedback with/about in their message other
than please check this on your Mac browsers or please check this in
your PC browsers.

Also, it would be cool if folks would provide some parenthetical
reference to what website we're talking about since site check occurs
with great regularity - like site check www.mywonderfulsite.com in the
email subject.

See ya!

Rick Faaberg

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



RE: [WSG] Font size

2004-11-18 Thread Chris Taylor
The solution you posted is user oriented. What about developers ?

Surely ANY solution has to be user orientated. After all, we are
designing sites for users, not for developers.

Chris


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Javier
Sent: 18 November 2004 09:39
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Font size

 David Laakso wrote:
  
  Jeroen Visser [ vizi ] wrote:
  
   I myself set a base size on the body element
 (most of the time 76%
   like Owen Briggs) and then use em's to set up
 the rest of the typography.
 
  Hmm, 76% on the body element, thats 24% smaller
 than my default? Kinda
  tough on us older folks.
 
 David, you understate the problem. Take a look at:
 http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/area76.html and the three links at 
 the ending the content.
 --


Well, I love critic people...but also, I know is easy to be critic but
is not so easy to give solutions.

I really respect your opinion and could agree with it but I find you are
so critic with web developers but give no solutions to the problem.

Now, I'm a web developer that don't want to fall in the tirany you
described. What should I do to be a better developer with the user in
mine ? Do you have a solution or recommendation ?

The solution you posted is user oriented. What about developers ?

thanks in advance

Javier






__
Do you Yahoo!? 
The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! 
http://my.yahoo.com 
 

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



RE: [WSG] Another site review

2004-11-05 Thread Chris Taylor
Looks good (I've only tried it in Win/Firefox so far) but the thing that
immediately struck me is that you have all the MIDI files in the site
root. I know this isn't a standards issue, but wouldn't it be better to
split them into alphabetical folders? Maybe I'm a data structure
nutcase, but that would annoy me.

Other than that, simple, clean design. I especially like the way the
text is so clear - good choice of font, size and color.

Chris



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bennie Shepherd
Sent: 04 November 2004 17:41
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] Another site review

I would like to get comments on my site.
http://bennieshepherd.com
Thanks guys...

--
Get Firefox Browser
http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=6908amp;t=58

Bennie's MIDI Page
http://bennieshepherd.com/

Athens, Georgia, Relay For Life
http://www.athensrelay.net/

Montrose, Colorado, Relay For Life
http://montroserelay.com/

Grand Junction, Colorado, Relay For Life http://grandjunctionrelay.org

LZ Friendly Veterans Org
http://lzfriendly.org


**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**