Re: [WSG] best formatting for alt text

2010-11-12 Thread Christian Montoya
On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Patrick H. Lauke
re...@splintered.co.uk wrote:
 On 13/11/2010 01:23, cat soul wrote:

 Right..I noticed this while playing around, and I wondered whether it
 represents an opportunity by making sure that it has some desired
 formatting, or whether those who rely upon alt information just want
 normal, smallish text.

  so if the image was, for instance, a heading (not doing any
 css image replacement, just putting straight images in the markup), then
 obviously the entire image would be wrapped in the appropriate heading
 element.

Hear, hear. If you are using images for text, you should still wrap
them semantically.

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Re: [WSG] Google 'X-ray' banner

2010-11-08 Thread Christian Montoya
In the future, right click, Open Image in New Tab. At least if you
are using Google Chrome...

http://www.google.com/logos/2010/xraydiscovery2010-ps.gif


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Re: [WSG] CSS rollovers for images?

2010-10-19 Thread Christian Montoya
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 4:13 PM, cat soul cats...@thinkplan.org wrote:
 Any thoughts on using CSS hover properties to show larger images?

 The scenario I'm envisioning is one where you'd have small thumbnails of
 samples, and hovering the mouse over them would invoke a hover state in
 which a larger version of that same image would appear...Larger meaning
 400x600 pixels, or in that neighborhood.

 Is this not wise from a coding perspective? How about usability? Do web page
 visitors not expect this kind of behavior..would it be confusing to them as
 to what they're supposed to do, or what to expect?

I think people might expect a larger version of a thumbnail when they
click on it, not necessarily when they hover over it. I guess it
depends on how you would indicate to the user that this functionality
exists.

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Re: [WSG] Image Maps

2010-10-14 Thread Christian Montoya
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 12:52 PM, David Dorward da...@dorward.me.uk wrote:

 On 14 Oct 2010, at 17:27, Tom Livingston wrote:

 Are image maps still ok?

 Still?

 Server side image maps are as inaccessible as ever.

 Client side image maps had issues last time I looked at them, but things 
 might have improved since then.

 http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/mapalt.html is an (oldish) resource 
 which describes some of the issues and ways to work around them.

 --
 David Dorward
 http://dorward.me.uk


 When I say ok I mean as OK as they can be. And the question may
 have been better as Does anyone still use image maps?

 Anyway, thanks for the link.

Bandcamp is an indie-artist music store service that allows you to
design your own storefront, but if you want to link to other sites
from your header, you have to use an image map. So yes, there are
people out there still using image maps. I'm one of them. But not by
choice.

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Re: [WSG] :: makeready ::

2009-12-22 Thread Christian Montoya
On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 12:13 PM, David Laakso
da...@chelseacreekstudio.com wrote:
 I'd appreciate your comments and suggestions on this site.
 http://chelseacreekstudio.com/


I would prefer if set 1 were expanded by default, and if set 1
through set 3 were presented as tabs on the same line, instead of
vertically, or if they were not present and the 3 sets were displayed
as a horizontal sliding ribbon. In essence, more of a pagination view
instead of disparate vertical blocks.

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Re: [WSG] Remove CSS inheritance property

2009-06-01 Thread Christian Montoya
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Douglas Reith doug...@reith.com.au wrote:
 Hi,
 This might be basic to some people...

 The site I'm working on has a default CSS that comes with the framework that
 it runs on. The default CSS defines a property, specifically

 p { margin: 1em 0; }
...
 However, what I would really like to do is actually revert
 to the browser's margin property. That is, not override the margin property
 but remove it. I don't want the default margin property either. I just want
 the browser to define it.

 Can this be done?

No. But considering that the defaults can vary across browsers, it's
better to have a base reset that sets an exact default, which this
framework has done for you.

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[WSG] CSS 3 Media Queries iPhone / Opera Mini 4

2009-05-29 Thread Christian Montoya
I am looking into delivering an iPhone-specific stylesheet and I came
across this:

For example, to specify a style sheet for iPhone, use an expression
similar to the following:
link media=only screen and (max-device-width: 480px)
href=small-device.css type= text/css rel=stylesheet

To specify a style sheet for devices other than iPhone, use an
expression similar to the following:
link media=screen and (min-device-width: 481px)
href=not-small-device.css type=text/css rel=stylesheet

on this page: 
http://developer.apple.com/safari/library/documentation/AppleApplications/Reference/SafariWebContent/OptimizingforSafarioniPhone/chapter_3_section_2.html.

What I am finding is that I can apply a mobile stylesheet using the
first example, but all of my screen stylesheets are still applied. So
using the second example I could eliminate this, but my concern is
that other browsers will not understand the second example and
therefore not render any screen styles at all. What is the preferred
course of action here? Can I really inject a media query into all of
my link media attributes without affecting older browsers?

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[WSG] Problems with IE 6 on a simple example page

2009-05-28 Thread Christian Montoya
Hello list,

I put up a simple example page at this address:
http://christianmontoya.net/help/
and I have been working on fixing the bugs in IE 6. Usually I have no
trouble doing this but today I can't seem to figure things out. First,
the main content section does not come out tall enough, so the bottom
background image gets cut off. I used a combination of hasLayout
triggers + float containment on this section to make things work, but
I don't understand why my background image still gets cut off. Second,
the text in the right sidebar does not wrap properly, so I either have
to use overflow:hidden or break this text. This comes from two block
elements that have been given display:inline to make them behave
like one text element. Third, the images are supposed to be vertically
centered in their gray boxes, but this doesn't happen in IE 6... any idea
what's needed to make this work?

Any help solving these three problems would be greatly appreciated!

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Re: [WSG] Span within a li

2009-05-11 Thread Christian Montoya
On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 10:33 AM, Simon Josephson
si...@artatwork.com.au wrote:
 hi guys

 I am stumped with this - I have a menu list that is generated out of a
 database; the menu has several items and each has a 'class' attribute that
 reflects the item id, thus:

 ---
 div id=left
 div class=moduletablemain_er
 ul class=menu
 li id=current class=active item1
 /li
 li class=item361
 a href=/index.php?option=com_contentview=articleid=222Itemid=361
 span• Who Are We/span
 /a
 /li
 li class=item111
 a href=/index.php?option=com_sectionexview=categoryid=1Itemid=111
 spanRecent News/span
 /a
 /li
 li class=item359
 /li
 
 etc etc


 Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to style... JUST the li class of
 item361 (the reference '361' is to a document and remains static)... the
 span of the li to • Who Are We?

 Just the span within the li class item361. Is it possible?

 Note... only the 'item361'; not item111 or item359, nor 'current'.

li.item361 span {
  [styles go here]
}


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Re: [WSG] Safari background image problem with transparent PNGs

2009-03-31 Thread Christian Montoya
Would someone please post a solution to this problem in Safari's
rendering rather than criticizing the example posted or insisting on
an alternate route? For f***'s sakes already.

Regards not accepted,
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[WSG] Safari background image problem with transparent PNGs

2009-03-30 Thread Christian Montoya
I am running Safari 3.2.1 on Mac OSX Leopard. I am working on the
following page:

http://blueprintcss.org/index2.html

and I have noticed that when the page loads, the background image is
tiled a second time behind the images in the header, creating a
noticeable shift. I have posted a screenshot here:

http://blueprintcss.org/img/shift-safari.png

I've looked around for a possible fix for this but found nothing. It
goes away if I use:

background-attachment:fixed

but that doesn't fit the design I'm trying to make. Any ideas?

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Re: [WSG] IE8: Extensions to CSS

2009-03-26 Thread Christian Montoya
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 1:56 PM, James Jeffery
jamesjeffery@googlemail.com wrote:
 Why do Microsoft always feel the need to include their own properties.

 Are these in the CSS 2.1 specs? I've never seen them.

For the same reason as Mozilla, Apple, etc. And I think I know the
reason... because 5 years down the road, there's always a chance that
a new property will become a candidate for an upcoming CSS spec.

At least they followed the convention of prefixing the extensions.

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Re: [WSG] Browser Backwards Compatibility -- How far back?

2009-03-14 Thread Christian Montoya
On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Brett Patterson
inspiron.patters...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi all,

 I was just reading from a book that talked about some code that would not
 work in Internet Explorer 3.0, but would in Internet Explorer 4.0 and later,
 and Netscape Navigator 3.0 and later. This brought up a question that I
 could not find direct and consistent answers while searching the
 Internet...so, how far back would it be acceptable to design for, when it
 comes to backwards browser compatibility? I have been told from some sites,
 that Internet Explorer 5.0/later and Netscape Navigator 4.0/later, as well
 as Firefox 1.5/later and Opera 6.0/later. Is this correct?

Yahoo! has a good chart for browser support here:
http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/articles/gbs/

This is not so much which browsers they support, but more which they
test against and *guarantee* support for. So a Yahoo! site mike also
work with IE 5.0, but they won't lose sleep if it doesn't.

I think it's safe to say that if your client wants to guarantee
support for an older browser not in this chart, then you should charge
extra.

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Re: [WSG] Implication of empty divs

2009-02-08 Thread Christian Montoya
On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 6:33 PM, Ben Lau bensan...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi all,

 Are there any (seriously) bad implications of having empty DIVs around your
 HTML document?

No.

p.s. ignore all the long-winded answers.

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Re: [WSG] Opera Targeting?!

2009-02-03 Thread Christian Montoya
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Gunlaug Sørtun gunla...@c2i.net wrote:
 David Dixon wrote:

 Chomping at the bit to dismiss IE7 a little early aren't we Georg? :)

 :-)

 Look at IE7 from a designer/developer's point of view...

 IE7 is dead - meaning: stable,

Ah, well, most people would consider dead and stable to be two
entirely different things. Dead is more akin to abandoned or
unsupported. And it's still entirely possible that while Microsoft
is supporting IE 7, they could release a patch for it, if they ever
decide they need to.

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Re: [WSG] Website review : http://webprocafe.com

2009-01-16 Thread Christian Montoya
On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Stewart Griffiths
stewartmgriffi...@gmail.com wrote:
 All,

 Please can you provide feedback on the following website
 http://webprocafe.com/

 We are looking for thoughts on the design and usability of the site, plus
 any general feedback you want to provide.

The sub-nav bar (register, faq, members list) could be combined into a
vertical list and sit in the row above it, between the site title and
the login form. As it is, it's very awkward.

Also, there's a billion links on the page that all point to
webprocafe.com... the two title images, the navigation sections, etc.
Why so many? It takes attention away from the other links.

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Re: [WSG] embedding quicktime .mov cross-platform

2009-01-15 Thread Christian Montoya
My recommendation is that you convert the movies to FLV and use a
standard Flash FLV player. You'll find better support that way, and
you can do things like basic streaming, rather than just putting the
videos on the page with object or embed.

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Re: [WSG] Title attribute

2009-01-11 Thread Christian Montoya
On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 7:37 PM, Hayden's Harness Attachment
vig...@gmail.com wrote:
 Jens

 I found that, contrary to what I believed previously, this is not
 required for assistive technologies, ie. screenreaders. They usually
 pick up the anchor text well.

 Anchor text? What is anchor text? I thought the Title attribute was the 
 anchor text.

a href=...THIS is the anchor text/a

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Re: [WSG] Chrome and Safari render the same...or do they?

2009-01-08 Thread Christian Montoya
 From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
 Behalf Of Johan Douma
 Sent: 08 January 2009 11:22
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Chrome and Safari render the same...or do they?

 Just though I'd let you know about this, I actually think this is a pretty
 serious problem, because it breaks a lot of scripts and doesn't conform with
 the other browsers even though it conforms to the javascript spec.

 V8 (chrome's js engine) can take the values in an array in a random order.

 If we have my_array = new Array(val1,val2,val3,val4, etc... );
 And we loop thru that array with for-in the values might come out as val4,
 val1, val3

 The js spec actually says that it can loop thru an array in any order, but
 it actualy should be fixed to conform with other browsers.
 (https://mail.google.com/mail/?zx=zux2r51mnf08shva=1#label/assoc/11eb4c430f775f2c)

And this, my friends, is why web developers like me always insist that
specs should be more specific instead of being so flexible.

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Re: [WSG] valid lightbox++ ??

2008-12-16 Thread Christian Montoya
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 1:24 PM, designer
desig...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk wrote:
 I expect some may consider this off-topic, though it isn't really :- ).

 I recently tried using lightbox and then lightbox++ , the latter because it
 enables flash movies to be presented in the same way as images did in
 lightbox.  However, the big pitfall is that in order to make it work the
 syntax has to be of this form:

 a href=images/gwelanmor.swf width=600 height=400 rel=lightbox
 title=Gwelanmor Internet - flash version
 img src=thumbs/tn_flash.jpg alt=flash page thumbnail
 width=250 height=147
 /a


 You'll notice that the a href has a width and height specified, but of
 course that won't validate.  I've googled, but found no mention of this. I
 wondered if anyone here has encountered it, or better yet, solved it?

 Any bright ideas to solve this non validation?

There's a jQuery plugin called metadata that allows you to put these
kinds of options inside the class=  attribute. An example is on this
page:

http://jqueryjs.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/plugins/metadata/test/index.html

The tags that use a data=  attribute don't validate, but the ones
that use class=  seem to validate. Maybe you could try to find a way
to use the class=  attribute to pass your options to Lightbox++, or
use a similar plugin for jQuery that allows options to be submitted
via the metadata plugin. This way you won't have to rely on putting
incorrect attributes in your tags.

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Re: [WSG] Downloading Fonts

2008-12-09 Thread Christian Montoya
On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 7:44 PM, Nick Cowie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 @font-face supported by Firefox 3.1+ (currently beta), Safari 3+, Opera 10+
 (currently alpha) and internet explorer 5+

 only problem Firefox 3+, Safari 3+, Opera 10+ support raw font formats (OTF,
 TTF) only

 IE supports EOT format only

Let me just chime in and say that if you ever try to make font
embedding actually work, you'll quickly find that it's a pain in the
neck and very far from ready for primetime. I recently played with
it on a redesign and I quickly found that:

- Safari supported it.
- Firefox  Opera don't support it yet.
- Regardless of support, there's still issues with how well the fonts
are actually rendered, as well as there's always a lag time between
when the document is displayed and when the font is actually rendered,
during which you are just looking at blank spaces.
- Firefox is still the only browser that supports font-size-adjust,
which actually allows you to make all the fonts in your font-family
display with the same x-height.
- Making EOT files for IE is next to impossible, as the only tool for
generating them is not compatible with Windows Vista, or any
non-Windows operating systems.
- Making an EOT involves scanning a page of content and generating a
minimal set of characters  glyphs based on that content, meaning that
if you add more content later, and suddenly you are using a glyph you
were not using before, you have to regenerate the EOT file.

Overall, at no point was I convinced that I would be able to use font
embedding any time soon, as the current options have too many
challenges and drawbacks to make the time investment worthwhile. As
far as I'm concerned, it's still a pipe dream, and I doubt it will get
any better any time soon, considering how much all the browser makers
disagree about the Right Way (tm) to do it.

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Re: [WSG] Acceptable JavaScript Coding Practice?

2008-12-09 Thread Christian Montoya
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Brett Patterson
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 To All,

 I was playing around with a page where I found out that just about
 everything that I wanted to do I had to use:

 function namedFunction(layer)
  {
  var whatever = document.getElementById(layer);
  // other code here.
  }

 And I got really annoyed at having to either copy and paste or retype the
 getElementById(layer) part. So I thought about a way to not have to retype
 it (and make it cross-browser compatible) and to assign it a variable that I
 could use over and over again.

Just about ever Javascript framework does something similar to:

function $(id) {
  return document.getElementById(id);
}

So then you can just do:

$('header');

But if you really want cross-browser compatibility and also
ease-of-use, I would suggest combining unobtrusive practices with a
decent JS framework. There's a lot of gotchas out there.


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Re: [WSG] your best practise for CSS sprites for elements that have no height declared

2008-11-25 Thread Christian Montoya
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 9:06 AM, Foskett, Mike
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Sorry Brett, you're wrong.

 The png format will handle three levels of bit-depth including 8-bit which
 is the same as the gif format.

 The references you state are somewhat outdated and don't consider the
 different methods of compression that a png will handle natively.



 I suggest you try a few comparisons out yourself.

 They don't always work out smaller but most often they do.

Seconded. You can make 8 bit PNGs with as little as 8 colors or as
many as 256. Just try Save for Web  Devices in Photoshop CS3. I
don't even bother with GIFs anymore, the 8-bit PNGs come out smaller
almost every time.

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Re: [WSG] your best practise for CSS sprites for elements that have no height declared

2008-11-25 Thread Christian Montoya
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:23 AM, Brett Patterson
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 First of all, No I am not! Second I have tried out differences. Notice the
 difference in file sizes. Thirdly, I did not say that png did not support
 8-bit, nowhere does it say that, it does however say that GIF only supports
 a maximum of 256 colors. Fourthly, Todd your argument is off subject,
 because neither MIke nor me ever mentioned it looking best, although I would
 have to agree, PNG most certainly does look best, depending on the image.
 And fifthly, Mike, sorry, but no, without using a PNGGauntlet or whatever, I
 am not. All I simply stated is that gif files have to be smaller, (probably
 should have said before) without using pnggauntlet. And I say without,
 because anyone else may not have, or know where to get it. Well...and
 sixthly, I use PNGs just as much you, but there are a lot of times when PNGs
 will not cut the job, and GIFs are, again, majority of the time smaller and
 better.

Brett, I am afraid that you might be using a bad image processing
program that does not do a good job of optimizing PNGs.

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Re: HTML reached end of life?? (Was: Re: [WSG] Sorry Link)

2008-11-24 Thread Christian Montoya
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 5:28 PM, rch lib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

 I took a look at that Drew Mclellan article. He says:

 Step 3: Future-proof your site with XHTML
 HTML has reached the end of its life and is no longer being developed as a
 mark-up language. Its replacement is Extensible HTML (XHTML)—an
 implementation of XML that works in all browsers, old and new. Even though
 XHTML is strict XML, its tags and attributes are so similar to HTML that
 old browsers do not spot the difference. Using XML is advantageous because
 it's a modern, future-proof standard.

 Is that correct??

Don't believe everything you read on the Internet!

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Re: [WSG] HTML/XHTML/XML - Question about the future of.

2008-11-21 Thread Christian Montoya
On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 12:36 AM, Rimantas Liubertas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I made the same decision. I still follow HTML and XHTML, but anything I do
 (and have a choice about) is always HTML 4.01 Strict. I think it makes more
 sense than XHTML 1.0 Strict at this point since we can't really use real
 XHTML yet. It seems to defeat the purpose if you are using a Strict DTD
 incorrectly.

 Same here and looking forward to start using HTML5, at least for the
 personal projects first.

Interestingly enough, though, I had to use Facebook Connect on a
recent project, and in order to use it you have to use XHTML 1.0
Strict with Facebook's xmlns:

!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd; html
xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml;
xmlns:fb=http://www.facebook.com/2008/fbml;

Then, you use Facebook's AJAX bridge to replace their markup language
with data from Facebook.

It's not just a valid use of XHTML; it's actually a useful one, too.

http://developers.facebook.com/connect.php

But unless I'm doing something that justifies it, I stick to HTML 4.01.

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Re: [WSG] Text-only version

2008-11-20 Thread Christian Montoya
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 3:40 PM, Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 You can do a lot of what Betsie does using CSS but the one thing you can't
 do is replace the images with their 'alt' attributes.

Does this solve some problem?

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Re: [WSG] Animated gifs

2008-11-20 Thread Christian Montoya
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 7:46 PM, David Pietersen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I had to do this once in the past... and in the end I split the animation up
 into its individual frames, optimized each frame to within an inch of its
 life, then re-built it as an animation.  Cut the file size down to 10% of
 the original size.
 I recall that I did screen-shots of every 'frame' of the animation and
 started from there, but I am sure I later found a way to pull the frames
 straight out of the file.

GIMP will allow you to open it as separate layers which you can optimize.

But please, convince him this is a bad idea! Show him some good
looking websites that are similar in their style but don't rely on
animation. Make him think it was HIS idea.

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[WSG] Disappearing legends in IE 6

2008-11-17 Thread Christian Montoya
Hello list. I just put up a new design at http://christianmontoya.com
and I'm just trying to make it work in IE 6. The one problem that's
left is that the legends on my fieldsets don't show up. If you view it
in IE 6 you'll see just white spaces in place of them. Can anyone
suggest a fix? Thanks in advance.

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Re: [WSG] Disappearing legends in IE 6

2008-11-17 Thread Christian Montoya
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 4:41 PM,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Christian,

 Put a ' margin : 0;'  style to your legend tag and you're home free..

You guys were right, it was the negative margins. Now I'm just
wondering why the Blueprint core files had those to begin with. Unless
anyone here knows what good would come of applying negative margins to
legends, I'm going to remove them for good.


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Re: [WSG] img cannot be contained within the body?

2008-11-06 Thread Christian Montoya
On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 3:04 PM, James Jeffery
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 A very silly question that I cannot believe I am asking.

 I have never had to use img within the body tag. I was playing about with
 a test case for a client and happened to put img directly within the body
 (was for an image on screen with next and prev. links ... a gallery).

 I validated, and it was saying img needs to be contained. I checked the
 specs but could not see anything that was stating this.

 In the real application it wouldn't be directly within the body, because it
 would be within a page section div anyway, but am just curious.

The specs say that inline elements have to be contained within block
level elements. IMG is inline, DIV is block. BODY is neither.

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Re: [WSG] JavaScript clarification please

2008-10-24 Thread Christian Montoya
On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 8:16 AM,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 If you ask people who are truly expert with JavaScript, they will all
 tell you that it _is_  Object-Oriented, not least because it is entirely
 object-based: the first rule of JavaScript is: Everything is an object.
 A function is an object, a string is an object, and an array is an
 object.


I hate to throw another buzzword into the mix, but in a language where
every data structure is an object, even the primitives, like Java, we
call that Object-Based, not Object-Oriented. That's because no
matter what you do, you are always forced to use objects. In Java,
even if you just want to print Hello World, you have to create an
object, define it's main method, and call a method of the System
object.

I don't think Javascript is Object-Based, because I can just write a
function that prints instead of using an object. And even though
Javascript has objects, I think the style of writing it is more
accurately described by the prototype model.

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Re: [WSG] CSS font-size-adjust

2008-10-21 Thread Christian Montoya
On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:14 AM, Rob Schumann
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Christian,

 Christian Montoya wrote on 20-10-2008:

   http://unitinteractive.com/blog/2008/06/26/better-css-font-stacks/

 Back in September 2006 I wrote a piece that reached some similar
 conclusions to that above
 http://www.webspaceworks.com/resources/fonts-web-typography/60/

 At the time the use of font-size-adjust was an impractical solution due
 to it's very poor support among browsers... not even consistently across
 all platforms for firefox. I don't think much has changed in that
 regard, but would have to check to be sure.

 The best solution therefore was to use available resources regarding
 font availability and to plan typography around that, looking for fonts
 of similar aspect ratio with which to build your family (or stack, call
 it what you will).

 I've also setup tables of aspect ratios and x-widths for some common
 fonts, since aspect ratios don't give necessarily the complete picture
 (verdana and tahoma share the same aspect ratio, but differ
 significantly in x-width).

 http://www.webspaceworks.com/resources/fonts-web-typography/43/

Thanks Rob, I think that just about answers all my questions. Would it
be possible for you to update your tables with the Vista fonts?



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[WSG] CSS font-size-adjust

2008-10-20 Thread Christian Montoya
Hello list,

I am currently investigating the disparities between various screen
fonts and trying to come up with good font stacks that I can use in
Blueprint CSS [1]. I found this page:

http://www.w3schools.com/CSS/pr_font_font-size-adjust.asp

which explains how Verdana and Times, for example, have different
aspect values. One of the problems I've had with specifying font
families is that the size of text blocks, and the overall look of a
page, is greatly affected if the user sees it in a different font from
the intended choice, such as Verdana vs. Lucida Grande, because the
actual size of the font (beyond just the font-size property) is vastly
different. A further problem is that recently common fonts such as the
Vista font collection (Calibri, Cambria, etc.) are significantly
smaller at the same font-size as the classic Windows fonts (Arial,
Verdana, Georgia, Trebuchet). Ultimately the goal is to be able to set
up a font stack with fonts that have similar aspect values, letter
widths, spacing, etc. so that the difference from one OS or device to
the next is minimal, but it seems that I would have to adjust the
aspect value with CSS to make that happen.

So here are my questions:

- What's the support across browsers / machines for the
font-size-adjust property?
- Is adjusting the aspect value bad form? Is this as bad as
letter-spacing body copy? Would this kill sheep?
- Has anyone done this before? Is there an ideal aspect value for
screen display?

Thanks in advance.

[1] http://blueprintcss.org

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Re: [WSG] CSS font-size-adjust

2008-10-20 Thread Christian Montoya
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 6:21 PM,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I am sure most experienced Web authors know this, but some newer ones might 
 not. A quick and handy way to incrementally zoom and/or change text size when 
 viewing a web page is via keyboard shortcuts (Windows O/S):


Could someone please read the body of my email instead of just looking
at the title and then post a response that is on-topic?

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Re: [WSG] CSS font-size-adjust

2008-10-20 Thread Christian Montoya
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 8:41 PM, David Hucklesby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:36:26 -0400, Christian Montoya wrote:

 - What's the support across browsers / machines for the font-size-adjust 
 property?
 - Is adjusting the aspect value bad form? Is this as bad as letter-spacing 
 body copy?
 Would this kill sheep?
 - Has anyone done this before? Is there an ideal aspect value for screen 
 display?


 Hi Christian,
 I believe that Firefox 3 supports it, but must admit I have not tried
 using it. Interestingly I can't see the property listed in Sitepoint's
 Ultimate CSS Reference. Hmm.

 As for setting up font stacks, I found this article useful:

  http://unitinteractive.com/blog/2008/06/26/better-css-font-stacks/

 The linked PDF with samples of each type face shown side-by-side
 is a useful resource too, I think.


David,

I've been looking at that exact article, actually. It's very helpful.
I guess the biggest dilemma, currently, is that I am to come up with a
consistent vertical rhythm, but with just font-size and line-height
alone, such as:

body {
 font-size:75%;
 line-height: 1.5;
}

it's not enough. The difference in x-height between small fonts like
Calibri and large fonts like Verdana makes for very different
results. As far as I can tell, even using pixel or point sizes for
fonts doesn't make a difference. And I'm guessing that as far as
browser compatibility goes, there's nothing that does. Is that right?

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Re: [WSG] CSS font-size-adjust

2008-10-20 Thread Christian Montoya
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 6:21 PM,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I am sure most experienced Web authors know this, but some newer ones might 
 not. A quick and handy way to incrementally zoom and/or change text size when 
 viewing a web page is via keyboard shortcuts (Windows O/S):


Could someone please read the body of my email instead of just looking
at the title and then post a response that is on-topic?

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Re: [WSG] Flash replace Javascript in Future?

2008-10-16 Thread Christian Montoya
On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 9:27 AM, Charles Ling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Guys/Gals,

 I would like to get some opinion from you all, that would Flash 10 or ++
 will replace JavaScript in the future?
 According to this blog :
 http://ajaxian.com/archives/flash-10-and-the-bad-news-for-javascript-interaction.

 I found that alot of media website started to replace Javascript to play
 their audio/video and of course Flash required to be install as third
 party plugin and had to be updated (which is annoying). Did you guys/gals
 use alot of flash in your past projects that you were working with?

I think you misunderstood the article big-time. It's saying that Flash
10 is planned to not support DHTML scripting access, which means you
won't be able to control a flash video via Javascript. That just means
that a lot of interfaces where Flash is *not* currently sufficient
(such as Yahoo Video) or where Flash is used as a workaround to assist
Javascript/HTML (such as batch uploading in Wordpress) will no longer
be possible, at which point people will need to find a way to make
these things work with Javascript alone, or convince Adobe to change
their minds about this.

As for whether or not Javascript is ever going away, try using web
apps like Gmail or Facebook without Javascript and see what you lose.
The reason why Javascript has gained so much traction in the past few
years is because you can do a heck of a lot with it before you have to
load up a third-party plugin.


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Re: [WSG] Browser loading images issue

2008-10-15 Thread Christian Montoya
On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Kristine Cummins
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi all,

 I'm still having this issue as the client is contacting about images simply
 not showing up but on refresh, they do. Frustrating as I don't know how to
 solve this issue.

 The page is http://www.cpwrehab.com/employee_listing.html
 Stylesheet is: http://www.cpwrehab.com/styles.css


I noticed you have some CSS hacks like:

* html #container,
* html #headercontainer {
height: 1%; overflow: visible;
}


If you remove those, does this problem go away?

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Re: [WSG] best practices for using access keys

2008-09-07 Thread Christian Montoya
On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 10:25 PM, dwain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 i've read the following two articles and i would entertain some
 feedback on using access keys.  i'm slowly bringing my web site up to
 better accessibility standards and i have a few more things to do like
 add a skip nav link and access keys.  any other articles and resources
 would be appreciated for both subjects.

 http://www.alistapart.com/articles/accesskeys/

 http://www.sitepoint.com/article/accesskeys/

I would say that unless you have a very specific need within a web app
where you need to capture more usage options than just the standard
mouse  keyboard, don't use accesskeys. Don't use tabindex either. I
hate running into cookie-cutter weblogs and such that don't need these
things but use them anyway, making the expected use-case scenarios
very confusing.


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Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon???

2008-09-05 Thread Christian Montoya
On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 3:33 AM, Keryx Web [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Adam Martin skrev:

 Hey guys... it is great that talk about accessibility and chrome has been
 raised - but I do think that we need to wait until it is out of beta.

 A beta is supposed to be feature complete. otherwoise it's an alpha.


Just clear up my understanding, folks; is Internet Explorer accessible
because Microsoft builds the accessibility features, or because a
third-party software vendor builds the features? I know Microsoft has
been very good about building a number of user-friendly features into
Windows, like the on-screen keyboard and OS-level magnifying tool, but
I thought that all the screen readers and similar assistive devices
were developed by third parties.

If Google Chrome is really open source, then it seems that the same
could be done for it, with a lot less expense than designing assistive
software/devices for a proprietary browser.

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Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Coming very soon...

2008-09-04 Thread Christian Montoya
I can't believe this is still going. You guys are ALL off-topic for
this list. Please take your employment discussions elsewhere (like,
off-list).

2008/9/4 nishanth [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hi,
 You can send your profile and portfolio to this company. Sometimes we
 outsource some projects.

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Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Coming very soon...

2008-09-03 Thread Christian Montoya
On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 7:24 AM, David Storey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 3 Sep 2008, at 13:08, Todd Budnikas wrote:


 On Sep 3, 2008, at 6:19 AM, David Storey wrote:


 On 3 Sep 2008, at 11:42, tee wrote:


 On Sep 3, 2008, at 2:36 AM, David Storey wrote:


 On 3 Sep 2008, at 11:28, Regnard Raquedan wrote:

 Well, if it's akin to Safari, then it's as good as testing it there,
 right? :)

 Or is it...?

 No, it has a different JavaScript engine, and doesn't support a number
 of things the regular WebKit supports, such as text-shadow, @font-face 
 and a
 few others.


 Does it support border-radius or -webkit-radius?

 no browsers support border-radius.  It does support
 -webkit-border-radius, as far as I know (I'm running on Mac and parallels
 doesn't work on my 64-bit Vista, and I can't be bothered to do the few hours
 re-install process of Vista)

 -webkit-border-radius renders just fine. Running Chrome on XP on VMWare
 Fusion. http://www.css3.info/preview/rounded-border/

 Without WebKit's anti-aliasing as far as I can tell from Twitter posts. I'm
 wondering if this is due to webkit using platform specific code for things
 like this and text-shadow, as being a reason why they are not in Chrome
 (Safari on Windows has a compatibility layer), or if it is a older branch.
  I'm thinking more the former.


Could someone tell me if it has Google Download Accelerator or other
Google Toolbar features built in? I'm just wondering how much is under
the hood...

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Re: [WSG] Facebook downgrading support for IE6

2008-09-02 Thread Christian Montoya
On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 2:51 PM, Jens Brueckmann
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 2008/9/2 Gregorio Espadas [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 I like the IE6Blocker from Chris Coyier, check it out at
 http://css-tricks.com/ie-6-blocker-script/

 ONLY if a web application absolutely relies on certain javascript
 methods not available in old browsers may a user be warned about
 difficulties in using this application. In these cases, detection
 should be done by testing said methods, not by user agent sniffing.


Leave it to WSG to assume that Facebook.com is just another website.

Log into Facebook and profile your session with Firebug or a similar
Javascript tool. What you will soon find is that Facebook is one of
the most complex web applications out there today. It has a huge
number of AJAX  animation events throughout the many sections, as
well as a live chat feature similar to the one in Gmail. Just to give
you an example, Facebook has a continuously running presence monitor
that sends information via AJAX to the backend even as the logged-in
user is idle, to track and identify how users interact with the site.
One of the uses for this is to tell other users, with certainty, if
you are currently online.

Facebook has had a warning message on their homepage for a long time;
I remember seeing it at the beginning of this year. It's a way of
letting users know that some features of the site are bound to be
hindered because IE 6 is so outdated. I think this message went up
around the time that Facebook chat was released (April 2008), this is
why:

http://www.theangryhedgehog.com/2008/04/facebook-chat-and-ie-6.html

Currently, Facebook has a redesign of their site which is opt-in until
the testing period is over, which does not work with IE 6. It is well
understood that the new version features a lot more Javascript  AJAX
than the current design, and therefore, will take a while to make
compatible with IE 6, if at all. Facebook has not finished the opt-in,
testing period for their new design, so it is not correct to say that
they are downgrading support for IE 6. We can only say that if those
users are still blocked when the new design is actually released to
all users (which is scheduled to happen soon).

We might not agree with the way Facebook sniffs the user's browser,
but the point I am trying to make is that Facebook is far more a web
app than many people on this list may have ever known, and it
certainly does have different requirements than our blogs and
public-facing brochure sites. Also, since Facebook hasn't actually
finished their latest redesign, there is still a chance that they will
support IE 6 in the end; but I doubt it.

Last link:
http://siteanalytics.compete.com/google.com+myspace.com+facebook.com/?metric=uv

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Re: [WSG] Skype changing format of my pages

2008-08-26 Thread Christian Montoya
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 11:29 AM, designer
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Does anyone know a way to prevent Skype changing telephone numbers into
 skype buttons on pages I have carefully designed/coded.  It bothers others
 too :

 http://forum.skype.com/index.php?showtopic=113096


When a user installs Skype or updates to a version that has this
feature, they have the option to turn it off. It even tells them what
it is going to do. I understand that most users aren't savvy enough to
pay attention to these things, but this is like turning off the custom
outline on clicking links in Mozilla, or turning off the click sound
in IE.

Also, even if users find it annoying, I really doubt they will look
down on *your* site because it does the same exact thing all the other
sites do, that is, it has that weird-phone-number-thing (as your
client might have put it). Basically, don't fix what you didn't break!

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Re: [WSG] resetting input boxes

2008-08-08 Thread Christian Montoya
On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 2:16 AM, John Unsworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Paul Bennett wrote:

  Hi Kevin,
 
  It's not clear what you're trying to achieve. Can you give us some more
 information?
 
  Paul
 
 Christian Snodgrass wrote:

 
  I think he's essentially talking about a CSS reset file, specific to input,
 to neutralize all of the browser differences.

  I'm not sure of the specific elements, but just about any CSS reset should
 handle it. This is the one I prefer:
 http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2007/05/01/reset-reloaded/

  Yahoo also has it's own, but it's a lot bigger and I think somewhat of an
 overkill.

  --
  Christian Snodgrass
  Azure Ronin Web Design
  http://www.arwebdesign.net
  Phone: 859.816.7955


 Having just been working on a series of pages consisting predominately
 of form elements, including inputs fields/boxes etc, and also using
 the Eric Meyer reset, it's my experience thus far that the reset does
 not neutralize all the browser differences. Opera for one seems to
 treat the sizing of the input boxes differently to Firefox and Safari.
 Added to that you can differing results depending on the system of
 measurement you use, ie: em's vs pixel vs percentage, although I'm
 inclined now to stick to percentage, ensuring the containing div or
 fieldset is sized consistently across browsers with either em's or
 px's.
 I'm not informed or smart enough to know exactly why this is, but
 suspect that as the browser is applying the OS input elements, in the
 process it is creating dimensions that go beyond padding and margin.
 Otherwise the reset would work?
 Slightly off topic, but still with the Eric Meyer reset, I found that
 when it declares a universal - background: transparent; - it disabled
 Safari and IE7 from applying a class to the tr in a table when I
 tried to Zebra stripe the table rows. I removed it (the univeral
 reset), and at least in Safari (not yet tested on IE7) it was fixed.
 Firefox, Opera and Camino all rendered the stripes as expected. Can
 anyone possibly explain that?

2 quick things:

line-height: the ugly henchman lurking in the shadows, ready to strike
when margin and padding have been defeated.

Eric Meyer's CSS reset is old and outdated.

gotta run, hope that helps.

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Re: [WSG] resetting input boxes

2008-08-07 Thread Christian Montoya
On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 10:40 PM, kevin mcmonagle
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 can they be set for consistency across browsers?
 if so what are all the attributes that need to be reset, i missing
 something.
 -best
 kevin


The short answer is, no, not really. Some browsers have very limited
support for form styling. And some will render a completely bland form
if you apply the simplest of resets. So I don't know if there's much
more that can be done past what Blueprint already offers.

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Re: [WSG] Pop-Ups (BOM)

2008-07-17 Thread Christian Montoya
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 6:30 AM, David Fuller - magickweb
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Popup messages can be VERY useful… These days with floating divs etc they
 are not always necessary, however I do agree that they have a definite
 place.


I think they can be more useful when a small sound is played. The
other option is an error message that appears in the document flow.

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Re: [WSG] Opera files antitrust against MS: standards one part

2007-12-16 Thread Christian Montoya
On Dec 16, 2007 7:06 PM, Michael Horowitz
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Does your company hire the worst developers and
 designers or the best it can afford at the salary it is willing to pay.

I just finished working for a company that would hire the worst
developers and designers. I think it was something called outsourcing.
So, yeah.

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Re: [WSG] Opera files antitrust against MS: standards one part

2007-12-16 Thread Christian Montoya
On Dec 16, 2007 8:27 PM, Michael Horowitz
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Look how Firefox has grown to 16% of the market.  I think that shows how
 you are not correct.  I also suspect that Open Office is going to start
 challenging Microsoft as well. Especially is MSFT succeeds with
 establishing good copy protection

Didn't OOo file a complaint regarding Microsoft's Open XML format? I
know they started a petition because Microsoft bucked their ODT format
and came up with their own, which has been rammed through the
standards approval process instead of ODT.

So even Microsoft plays the standards system, and OOo appeals to the
same powers-that-be as Opera.

Do you follow the news about the companies you support?

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Re: [WSG] Opera files antitrust against MS: standards one part

2007-12-13 Thread Christian Montoya
On 12/13/07, dwain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 On 12/13/07, Gav... [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
  No, OS suppliers should have the option of providing whatever default
  packages they want, and leave the options open for users to install their
  own alternatives. Those that need a better, standards compliant web
  browser will know they can get one.
 
 but their os should be able to run other optional packages that the customer
 chooses.
 vista has little to no support from other software vendors and drivers are
 another issue all together.

We are on the verge of getting a worse peanut gallery than when we
were discussing the target lawsuit.

Windows is known for supporting many drivers and programs out-of-the-box.

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Re: [WSG] Opera files antitrust against MS: standards one part

2007-12-13 Thread Christian Montoya
On 12/13/07, John Faulds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 First, it requests the Commission to obligate Microsoft to unbundle
 Internet Explorer from Windows and/or carry alternative browsers
 pre-installed on the desktop.

 I can't see that flying. Is anyone going to ask Apple to stop shipping
 their OS with Safari?

Your question is perfectly valid, but where have you been? The EU
courts just slammed Microsoft with a huge penalty for their bundling
practice with Windows Media Player, which came after a complaint from
Real. I don't remember who it was specifically, but someone
representing the court said that they are very much against
Microsoft's market dominance and want to do more to prevent similar
practices from Microsoft.

So yes, I definitely see this flying.

My concern with the complaint is that it is clearly twofold; that
Microsoft is holding standards back, and that Microsoft is holding
competitors back. One is valid, the other is clearly business. I don't
like the fact that these two things go together. I want to see
Microsoft get serious about standards support, but I don't think it's
fair to apply a double standard when other companies use bundling
practices too.

Regardless, I think Opera struck when the iron was hot and I can see
this having a lot of traction.

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Re: [WSG] preserve whitespace

2007-12-11 Thread Christian Montoya
 - Original Message -
 From: Simon Cockayne
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 8:09 PM
 Subject: [WSG] preserve whitespace

 Hi,

 !-- Happy Holidays one and all! --
 I have an HTML page and I want to (well my client wants me to) preserve
 leading blanks in the value of a table data cell.
 I could use pre /pre around the data.
 Or I could use an nbsp; for each leading blank.
 Any others?
 What is the standard way to do it?

I would recommend pre over nbsp;, that way the data itself would stay clean.

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Re: [WSG] Browser test: Construct

2007-12-09 Thread Christian Montoya
On Dec 9, 2007 3:21 AM, Philippe Wittenbergh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Dec 9, 2007, at 4:37 PM, Christian Montoya wrote:

  Is
  there any way at all to prevent the FAYT behavior? If I apply return
  false, will that work?

 I don't know :-) Nobody ever managed to block FAYT, seen from here.

 To set FAYT to work automatically, add
 user_pref(accessibility.typeaheadfind.autostart, true);
 in your user.js
 (or use about:config).

OK, I added return false; to the keybindings and successfully
repressed FAYT in FF on WinVista, but I don't know if that works in
all gecko browsers.

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[WSG] Browser test: Construct

2007-12-08 Thread Christian Montoya
Hello list,

I just created a layout tool: http://lab.christianmontoya.com/construct/

It's nowhere near to complete yet but I need to get an idea of how
many browsers support it fully so far.

I know it works great in FF 2, Opera 9  IE 7 on Win. Vista with all
the click events and keyboard events supported.

If I could get some tests on older browsers and other operating
systems, that would be great. Thanks in advance!

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Re: [WSG] Browser test: Construct

2007-12-08 Thread Christian Montoya
On 12/8/07, Philippe Wittenbergh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Dec 9, 2007, at 11:49 AM, Christian Montoya wrote:

  I just created a layout tool: http://lab.christianmontoya.com/
  construct/
 
  [...]
 
  If I could get some tests on older browsers and other operating
  systems, that would be great. Thanks in advance!

 Gecko nightly builds (Camino  Minefield) seem to do what you expect.
 Of course, using 'J', 'K', 'L' triggers FAYT (Find as you type) when
 set to start automatically. Most people reasonably versed in the use
 of Gecko browsers have it set that way.

 Safari 3 doesn't get your keyboard input.

 OS X 10.4.11.

OK, I expected that. From what I know, jQuery keyboard events don't
work in Safari. As for FAYT, darn, that's good to know.

I'll probably add a virtual button panel to get around this issue,
but it's nice to at least be able to map keys in a couple browsers. Is
there any way at all to prevent the FAYT behavior? If I apply return
false, will that work?

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Re: [WSG] Disabling Fonts in Font Stacks

2007-11-28 Thread Christian Montoya
On Nov 28, 2007 1:23 PM, James Leslie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I've been looking over some inherited sites and noticed a very common
 font-family declaration of arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif. I know
 that arial and verdana are very different in size so thought it would be
 good to make sure there are not any problems with one font not being
 available, but aside from changing the stylesheet or removing the font, I
 don't seem to be able to do this.

If you use pixels for font-sizing, the text will be the same size
regardless of which font is used.

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Re: [WSG] Validation questions

2007-11-26 Thread Christian Montoya
On Nov 26, 2007 10:34 PM, Taco Fleur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I have an error where it says end tag for element P which is not open.
 The p tag is actually within javascript, within the headscript
 I don't see how I can fix this error.


Clearly you are using XHTML.

You have to wrap all your JS with CDATA, I don't have a specific
example but look that up and you'll find your solution.

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Re: [WSG] SIte Maps?

2007-11-21 Thread Christian Montoya
On Nov 20, 2007 7:04 PM, Jermayn Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 In coming in late to the discussion:

 Do we really need a sitemap? I recently read an article were it talked
 that if all the seo was done properly and it was smallish, you
 probably do not need a sitemap.


I remember that article too. It was saying that a sitemap is meant to
expose pages of your site that are difficult to reach for a search
spider that starts at the homepage. If you have a working  link
structure and anyone can reach any page of your site by just following
all the links, everything is already exposed and you don't need a
sitemap.

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[WSG] Site content not showing up in Firefox on Leopard

2007-11-20 Thread Christian Montoya
Here is a screenshot of a page from my site in Firefox 2.0.0.9 on
Leopard 10.5.1:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thephotoherald/2049540131/

I have no idea why so much text is not appearing at all. Could someone
with Leopard look into this for me? Thanks in advance.

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Re: [WSG] Help (another topic)

2007-11-10 Thread Christian Montoya
On Nov 10, 2007 10:30 AM, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Thanks James,

 Only one minor problem, I know nearly nothing about PHP.

 How would I write this up?

This is TOTALLY off topic for this list so I'll answer this question
now but if you have further questions just e-mail me directly, do not
e-mail the list about programming questions.

?php echo $_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR']; ?

in a .php file and the rest of the file can just be plain HTML.

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Re: [WSG] POSH article question

2007-11-02 Thread Christian Montoya
On Nov 2, 2007 8:36 AM, Tom Livingston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Case in point, Wordpress doesn't offer i or b in the post editor,
  just em and strong, and yet the buttons for these say i and b!
  Annoying!
 


 Thanks Christian and others,

 Another question though... do you have an example of proper, semantic
 use of strong vs b? Is it just just a tag to allow you to style
 your own visual emphasis? How about strong vs. em - what's the
 semantic difference? Here's the shameful confession - I am guilty of
 blindly swapping these tags for b and i. Now I have to back up my
 argument to go back! :-P

I recommend looking at the recommended tags for HTML 5 to see some
more attempts at creating semantic tags for uses of b and i. b
and i have no semantic value, but there are lots of times when
strong and em would be the wrong tag to use. Also, there's
microformats but I don't know if those cover all the bases.

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Re: [WSG] POSH article question

2007-11-01 Thread Christian Montoya
I don't think it was to imply that b and i are necessarily OK,
though they are. The point was this... say you are referring to the
title of a book. You can underline it, or you can italicize it... the
correct thing to do when italics are available is to italicize it. So
you would have done:

iThe Call of the Wild/i by Jack London

Now a careless standards-nut might come across that and do:

emThe Call of the Wild/em by Jack London

I'm pretty sure Roger was trying to discourage that sort of behavior.

Case in point, Wordpress doesn't offer i or b in the post editor,
just em and strong, and yet the buttons for these say i and b!
Annoying!


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Re: [WSG] multilingual website advice

2007-11-01 Thread Christian Montoya
On 11/1/07, Andrew Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi all,
 I've been asked to work on a multilingual website - including rtl scripts.
 I've done bits and pieces before, but always other languages in
 predominantly english websites.

 Although I see the problems as mainly technical, I'm getting vibes
 from others in the team about some mysterious 'cultural sensitivities'
 that we'll have to consider as the audience in this case includes the
 Islamic community. Perhaps foolishly, I had assumed that a sensibly
 designed website, free of pr0n ads and political cartoons, would be
 acceptable in most cultures, but maybe I'm just naive.

One issue is color - some colors are taboo in various cultures and you
want to know about this if the site is going to be marketed to a
global audience. I can't find you many links about this but I did find
this one:
http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/eai/implementation/archives/internationalization-of-documents-documentation-16608

Another issue is graphics... if you've got any stock images of people
like some sites do, you have to think about what certain cultures
might think about how people dress.

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Re: [WSG] SilverLight

2007-10-30 Thread Christian Montoya
On 10/30/07, Derek Featherstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 10/30/07, Christian Montoya wrote:

 On 10/30/07, Derek Featherstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Christian - do you have a reference for that anywhere? I'd be really
  interested in seeing it (as I'm sure others would be too!)
 
 Just read the spec on XAML, which is what Silverlight uses:
 http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms752059.aspx

 Hi Christian - I actually meant a reference on this part of your
 statement:

 [because Silverlight uses XML] Microsoft claims that Silverlight is
 much easier for screen readers, search spiders, etc. to work with.

 Can you show us where they claim it is much easier for screen readers,
 search spiders to work with? THAT is what I want to see...

I know I read it somewhere but unfortunately I didn't save the
article. If I come across it again, I'll send it over. Until then,
assume it's just hearsay.

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Re: [WSG] Re: worst site I've seen lately

2007-10-29 Thread Christian Montoya
On 10/29/07, Andrew Boyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Paul,

 There are bits about it I liked too - I would have done it differently, but I 
 think that it achieves what they set out to do - talk up their fonts to those 
 that want to buy them.

That may be true, but I can't actually suffer the UI enough to look
through their catalog. Maybe my tolerance for pain is lower than
yours. It's just too hard to go through them all.

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Re: [WSG] SilverLight

2007-10-29 Thread Christian Montoya
On 10/29/07, Travis D. Falls [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 So I have to ask... what do you all think of SilverLight... do you think it
 is just another way to do Flash work in a different Tech. or will it be
 more?

It's a little more. I've been looking into it and the distinct
difference between Silverlight and Flash is that Silverlight is
rendered XML while Flash is a compiled format. Therefore, Microsoft
claims that Silverlight is much easier for screen readers, search
spiders, etc. to work with. We'll see if things really do work out
that way.

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Re: [WSG] SilverLight

2007-10-29 Thread Christian Montoya
On 10/30/07, Derek Featherstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 10/29/07, Christian Montoya wrote:

 ... Silverlight is rendered XML while Flash is a compiled format.
 Therefore, Microsoft claims that Silverlight is much easier for screen
 readers, search spiders, etc. to work with.

 Christian - do you have a reference for that anywhere? I'd be really
 interested in seeing it (as I'm sure others would be too!)

Just read the spec on XAML, which is what Silverlight uses:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms752059.aspx

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Re: [WSG] SilverLight

2007-10-29 Thread Christian Montoya
On 10/30/07, Frank Palinkas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 From an accessibility aspect, a screen scrapper maybe be able to do its job.
 However, any attempt to work the markup will be futile.

Obviously this wouldn't be as easy as understanding plain HTML markup,
but what I was saying was that a device could refer to Scene.xaml.js
and parse that to get the relevant content/actions/etc. It's just
slightly better than having to look at a .swf to figure out what's
going on.

New work will have to be done to make sense of Silverlight but the
process should be easier than anything Adobe did with Flash... not
that I'm bashing Flash here.

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Re: [WSG] Re: worst site I've seen lately

2007-10-28 Thread Christian Montoya
On 10/28/07, Devi Web Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 10/28/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I just found what I consider to be an extremely annoying, very blinky
  website someone spent way too much time writing flash for.
 
  http://www.ourtype.be/

 Sorry, I didn't intend to send that to wsg, although I guess it's related...

It kind of is... this could have been done with Flash or Javascript,
but the end result would have been the same... bad! Horrible IA here,
I can't really skim or even get an idea about the fonts and I can't
imagine people would really spend time on that site.

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Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash

2007-10-23 Thread Christian Montoya
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Michael Kear
 Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:14 PM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: RE: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash

 Since we are likely to have perhaps 1 or 2 users only using any of those
 browsers, and by far the vast majority of our users are using WindowsXP with
 IE6 or IE7 (remember this is not a IT related site  - our customers are
 tshirt retailers and advertising agencies) I've decided the cost/benefit of
 fixing that isn't worth it.

I work with a 6 non-techie business types who are all involved in
advertising/licensing related functions and they all use Firefox by
choice. Have you ever asked your users what they actually use? Do you
have any stats on browsers (Google analytics will tell you this)? If
not, you are just making a poor assumption.

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Re: [WSG] Leopard mail and standards

2007-10-22 Thread Christian Montoya
On 10/22/07, Al Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 From: Breton Slivka [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Have you tried outlook 2007 Lately? the way it reads/displays html has
  been THE issue ever since it was released.

 No. I'd assumed it displayed the same as OE6 or Windows Mail (Vista).

A.. it doesn't. You should do a test and send us your results.

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Re: [WSG] Web Standards In Colleges and Universities

2007-10-21 Thread Christian Montoya
 On Sat, October 20, 2007 10:18 am, James Jeffery wrote:

  What power do i have (if any) to try and get the college to understand
  they
  cannot use a cowboy to
  teach tomorrows computer experts. Should i use my essay and examples and
  take it to the head of
  the college? I really don't know how to go about this, but its definatly a
  problem.
 
  I really am angry and annoyed, you pay money to be taught the correct
  methods. People who don't
  understand are fine, they will believe him, and thats the shocking part
  about it all.

My best advice to you is this: don't let your anger get in the way if
you do talk to anyone. If you come across as angry and annoyed, you
might just be ignored. You've already done yourself a disservice by
sounding a bit immature over e-mail with the teacher.

Also, I hate to say it but I don't think there is much you can do.
It's definitely worth trying and hopefully someone will listen, but
when it's 1 student in thousands vs. anyone on the college staff, I've
never heard of the student winning. My recommendation is that you at
least get the lecturer to allow students to make sites by hand instead
of with Dreamweaver if they wish. Explain to him that people can do
some really great stuff by hand and it's cheaper that way than relying
on commercial software and if they can make it look just as good (or
better), then he shouldn't force them to use Dreamweaver. At least
that would be something of a compromise.


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Re: [WSG] Jquery and/or Yahoo UI

2007-10-13 Thread Christian Montoya
On 10/13/07, Jason Foss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Sorry if this is a bit of a newbie question, but what's the issue with
 innerHTML?

It's not an official W3C DOM method. When you fill the content of an
element with innerHTML, the browser will render it but as far as I can
remember, the content doesn't really exist properly within the DOM.
The proper DOM methods, such as append, remove, etc. do build up the
DOM properly.

In a way, it's kind of like embed vs. object.

Of course, if you really want to use innerHTML, you could probably go
right ahead. But if you are already using a very DOM-friendly
framework like jQuery, you may as well take advantage of the face that
it makes all the proper DOM methods very easy to use.

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Re: [WSG] Jquery and/or Yahoo UI

2007-10-13 Thread Christian Montoya
On 10/13/07, Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 10/13/07, Jason Foss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Sorry if this is a bit of a newbie question, but what's the issue with
  innerHTML?

 But if you are already using a very DOM-friendly
 framework like jQuery, you may as well take advantage of the face that
 it makes all the proper DOM methods very easy to use.

* of the FACT. I can't write e-mails in the morning...

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Re: [WSG] Jquery and/or Yahoo UI

2007-10-13 Thread Christian Montoya
On 10/13/07, Dan Dorman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 10/12/07, Simon Cockayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Am I going to see green lights* in Firefox for standards compliance,
  error-free CSS and Javascript...oh...and will the HTML and CSS validate?

 I don't think _any_ Javascript libraries would affect HTML/CSS
 validation in any way whatsoever, because the validators don't even
 _use_ JS: they look at the source the way it's originally served up,
 before any possible JS modifications.

 Or is this incorrect? Do any of the validation tools revise their
 validation states based on JS interaction?

You are correct. But Simon was also talking about standards
compliance, which includes using DOM standards.


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Re: [WSG] Jquery and/or Yahoo UI

2007-10-12 Thread Christian Montoya
On 10/12/07, Simon Cockayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

 Anyone using jQuery (http://jquery.com/) or Yahoo UI
 (http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/) ?

 Do they, help to, build nice Standards based apps?

 Am I going to see green lights* in Firefox for standards compliance,
 error-free CSS and Javascript...oh...and will the HTML and CSS validate?

If you want to absolutely follow standards, make sure you don't use
any methods that wrap innerHTML. jQuery has one but it also has a
bunch of methods that use the proper DOM methods (appendElement,
removeElement, etc) so stick to the proper DOM methods and you will be
fine.

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Re: [WSG] DOCTYPE prevents script processing in IE!

2007-10-08 Thread Christian Montoya
 On 10/8/07, Simon Cockayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hi,
 
  Adding DOCTYPE stops page functioning with IE!
 
 
  The following HTML works (in QUIRKS) for both IE and
  Firefox...alertING Key Pressed!...erm...when a key is pressed.
 
  html  lang=en-US
 head
 title
 Keypress testing.
 /title
 meta http-equiv=Content-Type
 content=text/html;charset=utf-8 
 
 script type=text/javascript  
 function handleKeyPress(evt) {
 alert(Key pressed!)
 }
 /script
 
 /head
 
 body onkeydown=handleKeyPress(event);
 pPress a key!/p
 /body
  /html
 
 
  However, adding...
 
  !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN
   http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd;
 
  ...before the HTML...makes the Firefox page valid AND it still works ok.
 
  Whereas the IE page, though also now valid, but no alert appears upon key
 press!

Does it matter whether you return true or false? Because every example
I've seen returns something, but you don't return anything.

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Re: [WSG] Cost of Accessibility

2007-10-05 Thread Christian Montoya
On 10/5/07, Christie Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Christie wrote:
  It's very, very difficult to defend the Target site, it's an unusable
 mess
  so I don't use it, but Target does have the right to have a bad site.
 
 Kerry
 Not if they lose this case, they don't.

 Christie
 Then they will still have to the right to have a bad, accessible site.

The case has nothing to do with that. The case is deciding whether
they have the right to discriminate against the blind. Let's all at
least get on board with facts, ok?


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Re: [WSG] Cost of Accessibility

2007-10-05 Thread Christian Montoya
On 10/5/07, Christie Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Are you implying that shopping is a luxury? As horrible as you may find
 it, shopping is actually necessary for human survival in a capitalist
 society. It's the only way we can acquire goods.

 =
 Good point, I'm going to chew on that one for awhile.   I still don't think
 a  right to shop at Target should be legislated and I suspect there's
 already too much emphasis on shopping in society.  I've been reading
 multiple reports that indicate people are letting their mortgage payments
 slide and keeping their credit cards paid up so they can continue to have
 their right to shop.

So just because some people have credit problems and mortgage trouble,
blind people shouldn't have a right to shop? A right to ownership and
commerce in a capitalist society? A right to self-sustainability? You
need to stop letting random crap get in your way of analyzing the
issue here.

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Re: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard

2007-10-04 Thread Christian Montoya
On 10/4/07, Joseph Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I agree, reading her blog she seems to be a knee-jerk reactionary
 Republican who wants government support when they get shafted and
 government to lay off when others accuse them of shafting.

 Someone earlier said she was intelligent - I find little evidence of
 this.

I can't speak at all for Michelle's character but let's not make this
a mudsling. It's way off-topic.

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Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard

2007-10-03 Thread Christian Montoya
On 10/3/07, Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Should every store in the world
 be forced to provide a ramp for wheelchair access? No. Is it logical to do
 so for the large stores that serve thousands of people every day? Yes. But
 just because it is a logical thing to do doesn't mean they should be forced
 to do it. If they don't do it, they lose money. End of story.

If companies were really regulated that way, most of them would not
have wheelchair access. Just look at other countries that don't have
similar laws. People have to be carried up the stairs.

   Would anybody go and sue the local grocery store for having an
  inaccessible
   website? No. Because nobody would expect them to spend much time or
  money or
   effort into building a website that works. So where do you draw the
  line?
 
  You draw it at the company that you do reasonably expect to have a
  website that works.

 You can't treat company's different before the law just because one is
 making more money than the other. Now THAT would be discrimination.

Companies (or, corporations) are not people. They are separate legal
entities and therefore are subject to different treatment. You cannot
compare one legal entity (a corporation) to another (a blind person).
Not even the letter of the law does so.

Companies get treated differently all the time. What might apply to
one company won't apply to the next because one is huge and bordering
on monopoly and the other is small and barely making a dent in its
market. There is no bill of rights for companies, just legal
precedents that influence what happens down the line based on what has
been decided in the courts before.

We always complain about people making peanut-gallery comments on the
business blogs when they know nothing about the technology behind
websites. Well, I'm complaining about the people making peanut-gallery
comments on this list who know nothing about business or law. Make the
arguments you want based on your opinions, but don't make things up.

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Re: [WSG] Accessible Adobe Photoshop and flash With Jaws

2007-09-26 Thread Christian Montoya
 On 9/26/07, marvin hunkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Hi.
  well, next year looking at doing the diploma in information technology,
 website development.
  a couple of challenges i have, is that a couple of units, i probably will
 not be able to do, as one is to use advanced and basic features of adobe
 photoshop, to crop, manipulate images, and create 2d and 3d animation, using
 adobe flash, as part of my major project.
  Now, the National Traning Information System, which is governed by a
 national curriculum, for tafe across Australia, and comes from the
 department of education, canberra.
  now, as i will have trouble being deemed competent, because jaws, will not
 work with this software, as a core part of the course, and i have spoken to
 my disability office and the main lecturer, who organises the learning
 curriculum and talks to other lecturers.
  they will be using adobe photo shop, adobe flash.
  i know, i could probably use the flash development kit, but the major
 challenge is the graphics side of things.  So they are willing to bend, in
 their curriculum, as they said i would have an advantage, if i had sighted
 help to crop, edit and manipulate the objects.
  so, got any tips, tricks, or any work arounds for that, or is this a
 dissability discrimination act complaint, that might change their mind and
 bend to accomodate, not just me, but another vision impaired friend of mine
 is doing the same diploma with new south wales tafe, as this is a national
 curriculum, and has been rolled out as the new training package for the past
 12 months.
  if you can let me know, how to get round this problem, as the other
 subjects, i should be able to use php, editor, my sql database, visual
 studio.net 2005, for the asp stuff, etc.

In my opinion, and unfortunately I'm only offering my opinion here,
you should be able to make the case that Flash and Photoshop are not
essential knowledge for Information Technology. There's a lot of work
to be done with PHP, SQL, ASP, etc. that I don't think you would have
any trouble finding employment without knowing Flash and Photoshop. If
I were you, this would be my argument and I would tell them that you
should be able to pursue this diploma with whatever technologies you
are able to work with.


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Re: [WSG] question on 'logical tab order'

2007-09-22 Thread Christian Montoya
On 9/22/07, Tee G. Peng [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I still don't think my question get answered. I want to know, without
 using the tabindex, can one still claim to have the tab order in
 place? Or rather, how you guys define/understand 'logical tab order'?

 A google search on 'logical tab order', shows up  results that are
 related to tabindex.

Let me see if I can help... if you have the form elements in the order
that you want users to fill them out, then they are in logical tab
order... when the user tabs through them, they'll be going in the
right order. It's better to do this than to set up a tabindex
because that always messes with the natural behavior that someone
would expect. Browsers are already set up to tab through things
linearly, so just place them linearly.

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Re: [WSG] prettier forms

2007-09-14 Thread Christian Montoya
On 9/14/07, Maarten stolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello,

 I'm looking for pointers towards tutorials on how to make a form look
 prettier; especially the selectbox/pulldown and checkboxes are of
 interest.

I think this article would be very useful to you:
http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200701/styling_form_controls_with_css_revisited/

hope it helps.

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Re: [WSG] Accessible Open Source CMS

2007-09-12 Thread Christian Montoya
On 9/12/07, Marghanita da Cruz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Tee G. Peng wrote:
 
  On Sep 12, 2007, at 2:13 AM, Web Dandy Design wrote:
 
  Hi,
 
  Can anyone advise on the most accessible, open-source CMS between Joomla,
  Drupal or Plone?
 
  Modx cms
 
 snip
 Does anyone have any thoughts on Text Pattern?
 http://www.textpattern.com/

I do: use Wordpress http://www.wordpress.org/


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Re: [WSG] Browser Check

2007-09-07 Thread Christian Montoya
On 9/7/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Browser check for the following site:
 http://www.condometropolis.com/buy_orlando_condos.php?Name=action=searchSubmit=Browse+All+Condos!first=yes

Sorry to be off-topic, but is that domain name set in stone? Reading
it left to right can be confusing.


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Re: [WSG] will Eric Meyer�s C SS SCULPTOR put me out of job?

2007-08-27 Thread Christian Montoya
If your job is making plain looking, cookie cutter templates, then
yes, tools like these will put you out of a job. I see CSS as a box of
watercolors; you can do really simple things with it, and you can do
really complex things too. I doubt there will ever be software that
can replicate the kinds of complex things I do with CSS, and that's
why I'm not afraid of being replaced.

And by the way, Blueprint is not a Google project, it's a project by
Olav Bjorkoy that just so happens to be hosted on Google Code. And
it's a CSS framework, which means that it can make your job easier
(and help you make more money). It won't replace anything.

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Re: [WSG] Standards and Blogs

2007-08-13 Thread Christian Montoya
Rick,

Yes, you can make a Wordpress, Expression Engine, Textpattern,
MovableType, etc. blog COMPLETELY validate. Example:
http://www.christianmontoya.com/

You can even make a Wordpress blog (and probably the others) output
valid HTML 4 instead of XHTML. Tutorial:
http://www.christianmontoya.com/2006/02/13/serve-your-weblog-as-html-401/


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Re: [WSG] IE7 on XP security problems

2007-08-09 Thread Christian Montoya
On 8/9/07, M. Jama [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hey Guys,

 I am having this problem, I used custom Firefox properties to get the
 desired opacity effect

 filter:alpha(opacity=65);-moz-opacity:.65;opacity:.65;

 Now it works just fine on IE7:VISTA , FF:VISTA , FF:XP , FF:MAC, SAFARI:MAC,
 when it comes to IE7:XP the browser throws in the activex controller
 security in the information bar and disables my opacity effect, however if
 you accept it will enable it again , but people might get paranoid and
 suspicious about such matter.

I am 99% certain your problem is with:

filter:alpha(opacity=65);

which is not a FF property, it's an IE ActiveX property. My suggestion
is to hide this behind a conditional comment for IE 6 and use some
other method with IE 7.

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Re: [WSG] Who's A Front End Developer?

2007-07-04 Thread Christian Montoya

On 7/3/07, John Horner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I just finished a project which required knowledge of the following:

* HTML
* CSS
* Javascript
* XML
* Perl or PHP
* SQL

but what's the minimum set of skills we think someone should have to call
themselves a web developer?

You could make a case, I'm sure, for just HTML and CSS. You develop
(non-interactive) web pages with HTML and CSS. Javascript is really a
programming language. Should AJAX be listed seperately?

However, if that's enough to call yourself a web developer, what do we call
someone with all the skills above?


The company I will be working at in the fall separates the back-end
developers (PHP  MySQL, ASP, Perl) from the front-end developers
(HTML, CSS, Javascript). The front-end developers might have to know
some back-end languages to a degree, but you really can do a lot with
just HTML, CSS, Javascript, and XML.

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[WSG] Site Build It and CSS???

2007-06-29 Thread Christian Montoya

Dear list,

I have a potential client who would like me to redesign her website
with CSS (hooray!).

Her current site runs on Site Built It! and she would like to remain
with that system:
http://buildit.sitesell.com/main/home.html


From the looks of it, SBI! is archaic and I'm wondering how hard it is

to make a CSS template for it.

Has anyone on this lists worked with it in the past? Please let me
know how it is.

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[WSG] Opera and Decimal Percentage Widths

2007-06-26 Thread Christian Montoya

Hello list,

I have a test page set up at
http://lab.christianmontoya.com/point-nine-nine-percent/

and on this page the 3rd and 4th rows have divs with 49.6% and 49.99%
widths, respectively. These behave as expected in Firefox, Safari, and
IE, but in Opera 9+ their widths are the same as 49%. It seems that
Opera 9+ just doesn't do fractional sizes. Is this a bug in Opera?

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Re: [WSG] Safari now on Windows

2007-06-12 Thread Christian Montoya

On 6/11/07, Geoff Pack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


James Ellis wrote:
 Now I don't have to buy a Mac...

Then how will you test for Safari 1, 2, IE 5 Mac, etc?


By posting to the Web Standards Group mailing list (with the subject
line, Mac test please).

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Re: [WSG] Print style sheets

2007-06-08 Thread Christian Montoya

On 6/7/07, Lucien Stals [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hi all,

I'd written a print style sheet for a site I'd done  (
http://www.swin.edu.au/ads/ltshowcase/inspire/presentations.html  ),
but the feedback I got was that nobody knew it was there (unless they
printed the page).

So I hit google for some suggestions on how best to do this. This has
lead to more confusion.

One site I read suggested that print style sheets can confuse users
when what comes out of the printer differs significantly from what they
saw on the page. This is true in my case where I hide the navigation and
some background images. I also change the font and justification to
better suit print.

So do people here think it's a good idea to have a print style sheet
that differs from the screen style sheet?


Yes!


In the end, I used some javascript to allow users to switch between two
style sheets on the screen. One is designed for the screen, the other
designed for print. This way, if they print the page, they get what they
see.

What do people think about this approach. (If you are unclear from my
description about how this works, just visit the page and toggle the
print friendly view link near the top of the page).


I definitely think it is important to let users know that the result
from printing the page will be different than what they see on screen,
only because a lot of users are used to wasting all their ink printing
web pages that do not have print stylesheets, and think this is the
norm. Whether it's a matter of explaining the feature to users or
showing it on-screen, it helps the users who don't know about it.


My approach has caused me a further problem:

Because I used a link to trigger the script, clicks get added to the
browsers history, when technically the user hasn't left the page. Any
suggestions for how to get around this? Should I have used a select
list?


Isn't this problem solved by putting return false; in the event
handler? Or am I missing something?

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Re: [WSG] Recommended screen size

2007-06-04 Thread Christian Montoya

On 6/4/07, kevin mcmonagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

All right-after reading all the posts on this topic ive been reviewing
my rational for sticking with fixed width layouts for the last 50 sites
ive designed.
Where can i find the latest tutorials, articles and examples of creating
relative sized layouts.
Specifically can anyone recommend a site dealing with coverting
existings layouts to relative sizing.


You mean fluid layouts? I have a site for that: cssliquid.com.

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Re: [WSG] A CMS for POSH sites?

2007-05-25 Thread Christian Montoya

On 5/25/07, David Dorward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On 25 May 2007, at 11:54, Alastair Campbell wrote:
 Wordpress will, however, you might have to dig around to prevent it
 putting in closing slashes on head elements. (Closing slashes on
 content items such as images are fine, they are within the body and do
 not cause validation issues.)

Not causing validation issues does not make them fine; even if the
vast majority of user agents don't respect it, img / in an HTML
document means An image element followed by a greater than sign.
The HTML specification explicitly advises authors to avoid them:
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/appendix/notes.html#h-B.3.7


Getting Wordpress to use HTML 4.01 as opposed to XHTML is something I
do all the time, and it's not hard at all. Read my article:
http://www.christianmontoya.com/2006/02/13/serve-your-weblog-as-html-401/

Wordpress can be pretty good about using semantic HTML (it encourages
 em and  strong at the least) and there are some plugins out there
that add microformats support if you are interested in that.

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Re: [WSG] Converting font size from pt to % or em

2007-05-25 Thread Christian Montoya

On 2007/05/25 15:24 (GMT+0800) Nick Cowie apparently typed:

 1em =  100% = 16px = 16pt (yes 1px = 1pt for the screen) in all  PC based
 browsers since 2000


Not true. On high resolution displays (widescreen laptops, for
example) that use 120 dpi instead of the standard, classic 96 dpi and
use Windows' font-scaling to compensate,

1em = 100% = 18px = ?pt.

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Re: [WSG] Converting font size from pt to % or em

2007-05-25 Thread Christian Montoya

On 5/25/07, Philip Kiff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Felix Miata wrote:
 What matters is:
 [...]
 5-that any deviation a designer makes from 100% is
 arbitrary, as it's made from an entirely unknown starting point

 100% of the visitor's choice equals respect for the visitor.

I'm not really convinced that this is an issue of respect for the users of
one's site.

The reference that Kane provided to Owen Briggs's charts over at
thenoodleincident.com I think demonstrates how the operating system
manufacturers and browser companies are the ones who have been arbitrary
about what 100% font size on the body element means.  Here is a link to Owen
Briggs's page discussing Sane CSS Typography:
http://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/typography/index.html

As Kane pointed out, and as Owen Briggs's screenshot studies demonstrate,
the use of 76% as the body font size is to create a more even base-line
size across multiple browsers.  This 76% figure is not therefore entirely
arbitrary: setting the body font size to 65%-76% or so is the size that
designers have come up with over the years that allows them the most freedom
to produce designs that appear similiar across different browsers and
different operating platforms.  These levels don't come from any disrespect
felt towards site visitors, but from a disrespect for the arbitrariness of
different browser defaults and a desire to override the choices made by
those browsers.

Isn't this basically the same kind of thing that a designer does when they
apply zeroing to the body margins or body padding or to any other CSS
element that different browsers set differently.  Designers modify the
default settings of CSS elements all the time - that is what a designer does
in order to create a design.  Sure, designers should create designs that
scale nicely and play well with user specified font sizes, and of course web
designers should learn to embrace the idea that the sites they create will
be accessed in different ways and with different technologies that will not
permit pixel-perfect identical versions to be served to all users.  However,
that doesn't mean that they have to give up on trying to produce designs
that look almost identical to the way they want in the default settings of
the browsers that appear most frequently in their site traffic logs.

I wonder, is it possible that 65%-76% base size body font is in fact the
level that has become a kind of standard on the web?  Or perhaps the web has
a dual standard: one is 65-76% and the other is 100%?  In any case, I'm not
convinced that the choice by many web designers to use 65-76% will be easily
overcome, especially given its usefulness from a design standpoint, and the
apparent arbitrariness of the 100% alternative.


I hate to make a quick reply to a long post, but not all designers set
body font size to 62.5% when creating websites. It's enough to start
at 100% and set nested containers to fractions of that... just do the
math starting off from 16px. The point that Felix is making is that
setting the body to something small like 62.5% is very destructive,
since user stylesheets and user settings usually just override the
body rule (and ruin all your specific rules).

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Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com


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Re: [WSG] Converting font size from pt to % or em

2007-05-25 Thread Christian Montoya

On 5/25/07, Paul Novitski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

At 5/25/2007 03:10 PM, Christian Montoya wrote:
I hate to make a quick reply to a long post, but not all designers set
body font size to 62.5% when creating websites. It's enough to start
at 100% and set nested containers to fractions of that... just do the
math starting off from 16px. The point that Felix is making is that
setting the body to something small like 62.5% is very destructive,
since user stylesheets and user settings usually just override the
body rule (and ruin all your specific rules).


ruin?  Wouldn't it just make everything larger if they overrode the
stylesheet with, say, body {font-size: 100%}?

I guess it will depend on which aspects of the layout are widthed in
ems, but for most pages I'd think it would just start you out at a
larger degree of [text and/or layout] magnification.

(The past tense of the verb to width I just coined is so difficult
to pronounce I just had to use it.)


It can ruin text if it means that things suddenly get much bigger than
the user or designer ever expected and (sometimes) breaks out of
containers. If I enforce 18px as a default because I have a high
resolution display and no elegant way of scaling fonts, I would expect
all text to be just a step larger than the default 16px that most
users at 96 dpi would get. But then you are talking about a page where
the default was intended to start at 10px getting enlarged by a factor
of 1.4, for example, on a container, and with my default of 18px
suddenly I'm getting 25 or 26 px, much much bigger than what I wanted
and bigger than what the designer expected. That's ruined in my book.

IMO it's not hard to just leave the default body size alone and size
from there, which is why I do that in my own stylesheets.

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Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com


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