Re: [WSG] best formatting for alt text
On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Patrick H. Lauke re...@splintered.co.uk wrote: On 13/11/2010 01:23, cat soul wrote: Right..I noticed this while playing around, and I wondered whether it represents an opportunity by making sure that it has some desired formatting, or whether those who rely upon alt information just want normal, smallish text. so if the image was, for instance, a heading (not doing any css image replacement, just putting straight images in the markup), then obviously the entire image would be wrapped in the appropriate heading element. Hear, hear. If you are using images for text, you should still wrap them semantically. -- -- Christian Montoya mappdev.com :: christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Google 'X-ray' banner
In the future, right click, Open Image in New Tab. At least if you are using Google Chrome... http://www.google.com/logos/2010/xraydiscovery2010-ps.gif -- -- Christian Montoya mappdev.com :: christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] CSS rollovers for images?
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 4:13 PM, cat soul cats...@thinkplan.org wrote: Any thoughts on using CSS hover properties to show larger images? The scenario I'm envisioning is one where you'd have small thumbnails of samples, and hovering the mouse over them would invoke a hover state in which a larger version of that same image would appear...Larger meaning 400x600 pixels, or in that neighborhood. Is this not wise from a coding perspective? How about usability? Do web page visitors not expect this kind of behavior..would it be confusing to them as to what they're supposed to do, or what to expect? I think people might expect a larger version of a thumbnail when they click on it, not necessarily when they hover over it. I guess it depends on how you would indicate to the user that this functionality exists. -- -- Christian Montoya mappdev.com :: christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Image Maps
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 12:52 PM, David Dorward da...@dorward.me.uk wrote: On 14 Oct 2010, at 17:27, Tom Livingston wrote: Are image maps still ok? Still? Server side image maps are as inaccessible as ever. Client side image maps had issues last time I looked at them, but things might have improved since then. http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/mapalt.html is an (oldish) resource which describes some of the issues and ways to work around them. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk When I say ok I mean as OK as they can be. And the question may have been better as Does anyone still use image maps? Anyway, thanks for the link. Bandcamp is an indie-artist music store service that allows you to design your own storefront, but if you want to link to other sites from your header, you have to use an image map. So yes, there are people out there still using image maps. I'm one of them. But not by choice. -- -- Christian Montoya mappdev.com :: christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] :: makeready ::
On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 12:13 PM, David Laakso da...@chelseacreekstudio.com wrote: I'd appreciate your comments and suggestions on this site. http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ I would prefer if set 1 were expanded by default, and if set 1 through set 3 were presented as tabs on the same line, instead of vertically, or if they were not present and the 3 sets were displayed as a horizontal sliding ribbon. In essence, more of a pagination view instead of disparate vertical blocks. -- -- Christian Montoya mappdev.com :: christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Remove CSS inheritance property
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Douglas Reith doug...@reith.com.au wrote:
Hi,
This might be basic to some people...
The site I'm working on has a default CSS that comes with the framework that
it runs on. The default CSS defines a property, specifically
p { margin: 1em 0; }
...
However, what I would really like to do is actually revert
to the browser's margin property. That is, not override the margin property
but remove it. I don't want the default margin property either. I just want
the browser to define it.
Can this be done?
No. But considering that the defaults can vary across browsers, it's
better to have a base reset that sets an exact default, which this
framework has done for you.
--
--
Christian Montoya
mappdev.com :: christianmontoya.net
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
[WSG] CSS 3 Media Queries iPhone / Opera Mini 4
I am looking into delivering an iPhone-specific stylesheet and I came across this: For example, to specify a style sheet for iPhone, use an expression similar to the following: link media=only screen and (max-device-width: 480px) href=small-device.css type= text/css rel=stylesheet To specify a style sheet for devices other than iPhone, use an expression similar to the following: link media=screen and (min-device-width: 481px) href=not-small-device.css type=text/css rel=stylesheet on this page: http://developer.apple.com/safari/library/documentation/AppleApplications/Reference/SafariWebContent/OptimizingforSafarioniPhone/chapter_3_section_2.html. What I am finding is that I can apply a mobile stylesheet using the first example, but all of my screen stylesheets are still applied. So using the second example I could eliminate this, but my concern is that other browsers will not understand the second example and therefore not render any screen styles at all. What is the preferred course of action here? Can I really inject a media query into all of my link media attributes without affecting older browsers? -- -- Christian Montoya mappdev.com :: christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Problems with IE 6 on a simple example page
Hello list, I put up a simple example page at this address: http://christianmontoya.net/help/ and I have been working on fixing the bugs in IE 6. Usually I have no trouble doing this but today I can't seem to figure things out. First, the main content section does not come out tall enough, so the bottom background image gets cut off. I used a combination of hasLayout triggers + float containment on this section to make things work, but I don't understand why my background image still gets cut off. Second, the text in the right sidebar does not wrap properly, so I either have to use overflow:hidden or break this text. This comes from two block elements that have been given display:inline to make them behave like one text element. Third, the images are supposed to be vertically centered in their gray boxes, but this doesn't happen in IE 6... any idea what's needed to make this work? Any help solving these three problems would be greatly appreciated! -- -- Christian Montoya mappdev.com :: christianmontoya.net -- -- Christian Montoya mappdev.com :: christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Span within a li
On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 10:33 AM, Simon Josephson
si...@artatwork.com.au wrote:
hi guys
I am stumped with this - I have a menu list that is generated out of a
database; the menu has several items and each has a 'class' attribute that
reflects the item id, thus:
---
div id=left
div class=moduletablemain_er
ul class=menu
li id=current class=active item1
/li
li class=item361
a href=/index.php?option=com_contentview=articleid=222Itemid=361
span• Who Are We/span
/a
/li
li class=item111
a href=/index.php?option=com_sectionexview=categoryid=1Itemid=111
spanRecent News/span
/a
/li
li class=item359
/li
etc etc
Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to style... JUST the li class of
item361 (the reference '361' is to a document and remains static)... the
span of the li to • Who Are We?
Just the span within the li class item361. Is it possible?
Note... only the 'item361'; not item111 or item359, nor 'current'.
li.item361 span {
[styles go here]
}
--
--
Christian Montoya
mappdev.com :: christianmontoya.net
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***
Re: [WSG] Safari background image problem with transparent PNGs
Would someone please post a solution to this problem in Safari's rendering rather than criticizing the example posted or insisting on an alternate route? For f***'s sakes already. Regards not accepted, -- Christian Montoya mappdev.com :: christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Safari background image problem with transparent PNGs
I am running Safari 3.2.1 on Mac OSX Leopard. I am working on the following page: http://blueprintcss.org/index2.html and I have noticed that when the page loads, the background image is tiled a second time behind the images in the header, creating a noticeable shift. I have posted a screenshot here: http://blueprintcss.org/img/shift-safari.png I've looked around for a possible fix for this but found nothing. It goes away if I use: background-attachment:fixed but that doesn't fit the design I'm trying to make. Any ideas? -- -- Christian Montoya mappdev.com :: christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] IE8: Extensions to CSS
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 1:56 PM, James Jeffery jamesjeffery@googlemail.com wrote: Why do Microsoft always feel the need to include their own properties. Are these in the CSS 2.1 specs? I've never seen them. For the same reason as Mozilla, Apple, etc. And I think I know the reason... because 5 years down the road, there's always a chance that a new property will become a candidate for an upcoming CSS spec. At least they followed the convention of prefixing the extensions. -- -- Christian Montoya mappdev.com :: christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Browser Backwards Compatibility -- How far back?
On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Brett Patterson inspiron.patters...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I was just reading from a book that talked about some code that would not work in Internet Explorer 3.0, but would in Internet Explorer 4.0 and later, and Netscape Navigator 3.0 and later. This brought up a question that I could not find direct and consistent answers while searching the Internet...so, how far back would it be acceptable to design for, when it comes to backwards browser compatibility? I have been told from some sites, that Internet Explorer 5.0/later and Netscape Navigator 4.0/later, as well as Firefox 1.5/later and Opera 6.0/later. Is this correct? Yahoo! has a good chart for browser support here: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/articles/gbs/ This is not so much which browsers they support, but more which they test against and *guarantee* support for. So a Yahoo! site mike also work with IE 5.0, but they won't lose sleep if it doesn't. I think it's safe to say that if your client wants to guarantee support for an older browser not in this chart, then you should charge extra. -- -- Christian Montoya mappdev.com :: christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Implication of empty divs
On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 6:33 PM, Ben Lau bensan...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, Are there any (seriously) bad implications of having empty DIVs around your HTML document? No. p.s. ignore all the long-winded answers. -- -- Christian Montoya mappdev.com :: christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Opera Targeting?!
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Gunlaug Sørtun gunla...@c2i.net wrote: David Dixon wrote: Chomping at the bit to dismiss IE7 a little early aren't we Georg? :) :-) Look at IE7 from a designer/developer's point of view... IE7 is dead - meaning: stable, Ah, well, most people would consider dead and stable to be two entirely different things. Dead is more akin to abandoned or unsupported. And it's still entirely possible that while Microsoft is supporting IE 7, they could release a patch for it, if they ever decide they need to. -- -- Christian Montoya mappdev.com :: christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Website review : http://webprocafe.com
On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Stewart Griffiths stewartmgriffi...@gmail.com wrote: All, Please can you provide feedback on the following website http://webprocafe.com/ We are looking for thoughts on the design and usability of the site, plus any general feedback you want to provide. The sub-nav bar (register, faq, members list) could be combined into a vertical list and sit in the row above it, between the site title and the login form. As it is, it's very awkward. Also, there's a billion links on the page that all point to webprocafe.com... the two title images, the navigation sections, etc. Why so many? It takes attention away from the other links. -- -- Christian Montoya mappdev.com :: christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] embedding quicktime .mov cross-platform
My recommendation is that you convert the movies to FLV and use a standard Flash FLV player. You'll find better support that way, and you can do things like basic streaming, rather than just putting the videos on the page with object or embed. -- -- Christian Montoya mappdev.com :: christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Title attribute
On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 7:37 PM, Hayden's Harness Attachment vig...@gmail.com wrote: Jens I found that, contrary to what I believed previously, this is not required for assistive technologies, ie. screenreaders. They usually pick up the anchor text well. Anchor text? What is anchor text? I thought the Title attribute was the anchor text. a href=...THIS is the anchor text/a -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Chrome and Safari render the same...or do they?
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Johan Douma Sent: 08 January 2009 11:22 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Chrome and Safari render the same...or do they? Just though I'd let you know about this, I actually think this is a pretty serious problem, because it breaks a lot of scripts and doesn't conform with the other browsers even though it conforms to the javascript spec. V8 (chrome's js engine) can take the values in an array in a random order. If we have my_array = new Array(val1,val2,val3,val4, etc... ); And we loop thru that array with for-in the values might come out as val4, val1, val3 The js spec actually says that it can loop thru an array in any order, but it actualy should be fixed to conform with other browsers. (https://mail.google.com/mail/?zx=zux2r51mnf08shva=1#label/assoc/11eb4c430f775f2c) And this, my friends, is why web developers like me always insist that specs should be more specific instead of being so flexible. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] valid lightbox++ ??
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 1:24 PM, designer desig...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk wrote: I expect some may consider this off-topic, though it isn't really :- ). I recently tried using lightbox and then lightbox++ , the latter because it enables flash movies to be presented in the same way as images did in lightbox. However, the big pitfall is that in order to make it work the syntax has to be of this form: a href=images/gwelanmor.swf width=600 height=400 rel=lightbox title=Gwelanmor Internet - flash version img src=thumbs/tn_flash.jpg alt=flash page thumbnail width=250 height=147 /a You'll notice that the a href has a width and height specified, but of course that won't validate. I've googled, but found no mention of this. I wondered if anyone here has encountered it, or better yet, solved it? Any bright ideas to solve this non validation? There's a jQuery plugin called metadata that allows you to put these kinds of options inside the class= attribute. An example is on this page: http://jqueryjs.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/plugins/metadata/test/index.html The tags that use a data= attribute don't validate, but the ones that use class= seem to validate. Maybe you could try to find a way to use the class= attribute to pass your options to Lightbox++, or use a similar plugin for jQuery that allows options to be submitted via the metadata plugin. This way you won't have to rely on putting incorrect attributes in your tags. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Downloading Fonts
On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 7:44 PM, Nick Cowie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: @font-face supported by Firefox 3.1+ (currently beta), Safari 3+, Opera 10+ (currently alpha) and internet explorer 5+ only problem Firefox 3+, Safari 3+, Opera 10+ support raw font formats (OTF, TTF) only IE supports EOT format only Let me just chime in and say that if you ever try to make font embedding actually work, you'll quickly find that it's a pain in the neck and very far from ready for primetime. I recently played with it on a redesign and I quickly found that: - Safari supported it. - Firefox Opera don't support it yet. - Regardless of support, there's still issues with how well the fonts are actually rendered, as well as there's always a lag time between when the document is displayed and when the font is actually rendered, during which you are just looking at blank spaces. - Firefox is still the only browser that supports font-size-adjust, which actually allows you to make all the fonts in your font-family display with the same x-height. - Making EOT files for IE is next to impossible, as the only tool for generating them is not compatible with Windows Vista, or any non-Windows operating systems. - Making an EOT involves scanning a page of content and generating a minimal set of characters glyphs based on that content, meaning that if you add more content later, and suddenly you are using a glyph you were not using before, you have to regenerate the EOT file. Overall, at no point was I convinced that I would be able to use font embedding any time soon, as the current options have too many challenges and drawbacks to make the time investment worthwhile. As far as I'm concerned, it's still a pipe dream, and I doubt it will get any better any time soon, considering how much all the browser makers disagree about the Right Way (tm) to do it. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Acceptable JavaScript Coding Practice?
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Brett Patterson
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
To All,
I was playing around with a page where I found out that just about
everything that I wanted to do I had to use:
function namedFunction(layer)
{
var whatever = document.getElementById(layer);
// other code here.
}
And I got really annoyed at having to either copy and paste or retype the
getElementById(layer) part. So I thought about a way to not have to retype
it (and make it cross-browser compatible) and to assign it a variable that I
could use over and over again.
Just about ever Javascript framework does something similar to:
function $(id) {
return document.getElementById(id);
}
So then you can just do:
$('header');
But if you really want cross-browser compatibility and also
ease-of-use, I would suggest combining unobtrusive practices with a
decent JS framework. There's a lot of gotchas out there.
--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.net
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***
Re: [WSG] your best practise for CSS sprites for elements that have no height declared
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 9:06 AM, Foskett, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry Brett, you're wrong. The png format will handle three levels of bit-depth including 8-bit which is the same as the gif format. The references you state are somewhat outdated and don't consider the different methods of compression that a png will handle natively. I suggest you try a few comparisons out yourself. They don't always work out smaller but most often they do. Seconded. You can make 8 bit PNGs with as little as 8 colors or as many as 256. Just try Save for Web Devices in Photoshop CS3. I don't even bother with GIFs anymore, the 8-bit PNGs come out smaller almost every time. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] your best practise for CSS sprites for elements that have no height declared
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:23 AM, Brett Patterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First of all, No I am not! Second I have tried out differences. Notice the difference in file sizes. Thirdly, I did not say that png did not support 8-bit, nowhere does it say that, it does however say that GIF only supports a maximum of 256 colors. Fourthly, Todd your argument is off subject, because neither MIke nor me ever mentioned it looking best, although I would have to agree, PNG most certainly does look best, depending on the image. And fifthly, Mike, sorry, but no, without using a PNGGauntlet or whatever, I am not. All I simply stated is that gif files have to be smaller, (probably should have said before) without using pnggauntlet. And I say without, because anyone else may not have, or know where to get it. Well...and sixthly, I use PNGs just as much you, but there are a lot of times when PNGs will not cut the job, and GIFs are, again, majority of the time smaller and better. Brett, I am afraid that you might be using a bad image processing program that does not do a good job of optimizing PNGs. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: HTML reached end of life?? (Was: Re: [WSG] Sorry Link)
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 5:28 PM, rch lib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I took a look at that Drew Mclellan article. He says: Step 3: Future-proof your site with XHTML HTML has reached the end of its life and is no longer being developed as a mark-up language. Its replacement is Extensible HTML (XHTML)—an implementation of XML that works in all browsers, old and new. Even though XHTML is strict XML, its tags and attributes are so similar to HTML that old browsers do not spot the difference. Using XML is advantageous because it's a modern, future-proof standard. Is that correct?? Don't believe everything you read on the Internet! -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] HTML/XHTML/XML - Question about the future of.
On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 12:36 AM, Rimantas Liubertas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I made the same decision. I still follow HTML and XHTML, but anything I do (and have a choice about) is always HTML 4.01 Strict. I think it makes more sense than XHTML 1.0 Strict at this point since we can't really use real XHTML yet. It seems to defeat the purpose if you are using a Strict DTD incorrectly. Same here and looking forward to start using HTML5, at least for the personal projects first. Interestingly enough, though, I had to use Facebook Connect on a recent project, and in order to use it you have to use XHTML 1.0 Strict with Facebook's xmlns: !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd; html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; xmlns:fb=http://www.facebook.com/2008/fbml; Then, you use Facebook's AJAX bridge to replace their markup language with data from Facebook. It's not just a valid use of XHTML; it's actually a useful one, too. http://developers.facebook.com/connect.php But unless I'm doing something that justifies it, I stick to HTML 4.01. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Text-only version
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 3:40 PM, Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You can do a lot of what Betsie does using CSS but the one thing you can't do is replace the images with their 'alt' attributes. Does this solve some problem? -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Animated gifs
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 7:46 PM, David Pietersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had to do this once in the past... and in the end I split the animation up into its individual frames, optimized each frame to within an inch of its life, then re-built it as an animation. Cut the file size down to 10% of the original size. I recall that I did screen-shots of every 'frame' of the animation and started from there, but I am sure I later found a way to pull the frames straight out of the file. GIMP will allow you to open it as separate layers which you can optimize. But please, convince him this is a bad idea! Show him some good looking websites that are similar in their style but don't rely on animation. Make him think it was HIS idea. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Disappearing legends in IE 6
Hello list. I just put up a new design at http://christianmontoya.com and I'm just trying to make it work in IE 6. The one problem that's left is that the legends on my fieldsets don't show up. If you view it in IE 6 you'll see just white spaces in place of them. Can anyone suggest a fix? Thanks in advance. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Disappearing legends in IE 6
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 4:41 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Christian, Put a ' margin : 0;' style to your legend tag and you're home free.. You guys were right, it was the negative margins. Now I'm just wondering why the Blueprint core files had those to begin with. Unless anyone here knows what good would come of applying negative margins to legends, I'm going to remove them for good. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] img cannot be contained within the body?
On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 3:04 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A very silly question that I cannot believe I am asking. I have never had to use img within the body tag. I was playing about with a test case for a client and happened to put img directly within the body (was for an image on screen with next and prev. links ... a gallery). I validated, and it was saying img needs to be contained. I checked the specs but could not see anything that was stating this. In the real application it wouldn't be directly within the body, because it would be within a page section div anyway, but am just curious. The specs say that inline elements have to be contained within block level elements. IMG is inline, DIV is block. BODY is neither. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] JavaScript clarification please
On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 8:16 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you ask people who are truly expert with JavaScript, they will all tell you that it _is_ Object-Oriented, not least because it is entirely object-based: the first rule of JavaScript is: Everything is an object. A function is an object, a string is an object, and an array is an object. I hate to throw another buzzword into the mix, but in a language where every data structure is an object, even the primitives, like Java, we call that Object-Based, not Object-Oriented. That's because no matter what you do, you are always forced to use objects. In Java, even if you just want to print Hello World, you have to create an object, define it's main method, and call a method of the System object. I don't think Javascript is Object-Based, because I can just write a function that prints instead of using an object. And even though Javascript has objects, I think the style of writing it is more accurately described by the prototype model. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS font-size-adjust
On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:14 AM, Rob Schumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Christian, Christian Montoya wrote on 20-10-2008: http://unitinteractive.com/blog/2008/06/26/better-css-font-stacks/ Back in September 2006 I wrote a piece that reached some similar conclusions to that above http://www.webspaceworks.com/resources/fonts-web-typography/60/ At the time the use of font-size-adjust was an impractical solution due to it's very poor support among browsers... not even consistently across all platforms for firefox. I don't think much has changed in that regard, but would have to check to be sure. The best solution therefore was to use available resources regarding font availability and to plan typography around that, looking for fonts of similar aspect ratio with which to build your family (or stack, call it what you will). I've also setup tables of aspect ratios and x-widths for some common fonts, since aspect ratios don't give necessarily the complete picture (verdana and tahoma share the same aspect ratio, but differ significantly in x-width). http://www.webspaceworks.com/resources/fonts-web-typography/43/ Thanks Rob, I think that just about answers all my questions. Would it be possible for you to update your tables with the Vista fonts? -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] CSS font-size-adjust
Hello list, I am currently investigating the disparities between various screen fonts and trying to come up with good font stacks that I can use in Blueprint CSS [1]. I found this page: http://www.w3schools.com/CSS/pr_font_font-size-adjust.asp which explains how Verdana and Times, for example, have different aspect values. One of the problems I've had with specifying font families is that the size of text blocks, and the overall look of a page, is greatly affected if the user sees it in a different font from the intended choice, such as Verdana vs. Lucida Grande, because the actual size of the font (beyond just the font-size property) is vastly different. A further problem is that recently common fonts such as the Vista font collection (Calibri, Cambria, etc.) are significantly smaller at the same font-size as the classic Windows fonts (Arial, Verdana, Georgia, Trebuchet). Ultimately the goal is to be able to set up a font stack with fonts that have similar aspect values, letter widths, spacing, etc. so that the difference from one OS or device to the next is minimal, but it seems that I would have to adjust the aspect value with CSS to make that happen. So here are my questions: - What's the support across browsers / machines for the font-size-adjust property? - Is adjusting the aspect value bad form? Is this as bad as letter-spacing body copy? Would this kill sheep? - Has anyone done this before? Is there an ideal aspect value for screen display? Thanks in advance. [1] http://blueprintcss.org -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS font-size-adjust
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 6:21 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am sure most experienced Web authors know this, but some newer ones might not. A quick and handy way to incrementally zoom and/or change text size when viewing a web page is via keyboard shortcuts (Windows O/S): Could someone please read the body of my email instead of just looking at the title and then post a response that is on-topic? -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS font-size-adjust
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 8:41 PM, David Hucklesby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:36:26 -0400, Christian Montoya wrote:
- What's the support across browsers / machines for the font-size-adjust
property?
- Is adjusting the aspect value bad form? Is this as bad as letter-spacing
body copy?
Would this kill sheep?
- Has anyone done this before? Is there an ideal aspect value for screen
display?
Hi Christian,
I believe that Firefox 3 supports it, but must admit I have not tried
using it. Interestingly I can't see the property listed in Sitepoint's
Ultimate CSS Reference. Hmm.
As for setting up font stacks, I found this article useful:
http://unitinteractive.com/blog/2008/06/26/better-css-font-stacks/
The linked PDF with samples of each type face shown side-by-side
is a useful resource too, I think.
David,
I've been looking at that exact article, actually. It's very helpful.
I guess the biggest dilemma, currently, is that I am to come up with a
consistent vertical rhythm, but with just font-size and line-height
alone, such as:
body {
font-size:75%;
line-height: 1.5;
}
it's not enough. The difference in x-height between small fonts like
Calibri and large fonts like Verdana makes for very different
results. As far as I can tell, even using pixel or point sizes for
fonts doesn't make a difference. And I'm guessing that as far as
browser compatibility goes, there's nothing that does. Is that right?
--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.net
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***
Re: [WSG] CSS font-size-adjust
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 6:21 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am sure most experienced Web authors know this, but some newer ones might not. A quick and handy way to incrementally zoom and/or change text size when viewing a web page is via keyboard shortcuts (Windows O/S): Could someone please read the body of my email instead of just looking at the title and then post a response that is on-topic? -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Flash replace Javascript in Future?
On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 9:27 AM, Charles Ling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Guys/Gals, I would like to get some opinion from you all, that would Flash 10 or ++ will replace JavaScript in the future? According to this blog : http://ajaxian.com/archives/flash-10-and-the-bad-news-for-javascript-interaction. I found that alot of media website started to replace Javascript to play their audio/video and of course Flash required to be install as third party plugin and had to be updated (which is annoying). Did you guys/gals use alot of flash in your past projects that you were working with? I think you misunderstood the article big-time. It's saying that Flash 10 is planned to not support DHTML scripting access, which means you won't be able to control a flash video via Javascript. That just means that a lot of interfaces where Flash is *not* currently sufficient (such as Yahoo Video) or where Flash is used as a workaround to assist Javascript/HTML (such as batch uploading in Wordpress) will no longer be possible, at which point people will need to find a way to make these things work with Javascript alone, or convince Adobe to change their minds about this. As for whether or not Javascript is ever going away, try using web apps like Gmail or Facebook without Javascript and see what you lose. The reason why Javascript has gained so much traction in the past few years is because you can do a heck of a lot with it before you have to load up a third-party plugin. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Browser loading images issue
On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Kristine Cummins
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi all,
I'm still having this issue as the client is contacting about images simply
not showing up but on refresh, they do. Frustrating as I don't know how to
solve this issue.
The page is http://www.cpwrehab.com/employee_listing.html
Stylesheet is: http://www.cpwrehab.com/styles.css
I noticed you have some CSS hacks like:
* html #container,
* html #headercontainer {
height: 1%; overflow: visible;
}
If you remove those, does this problem go away?
--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.net
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***
Re: [WSG] best practices for using access keys
On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 10:25 PM, dwain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i've read the following two articles and i would entertain some feedback on using access keys. i'm slowly bringing my web site up to better accessibility standards and i have a few more things to do like add a skip nav link and access keys. any other articles and resources would be appreciated for both subjects. http://www.alistapart.com/articles/accesskeys/ http://www.sitepoint.com/article/accesskeys/ I would say that unless you have a very specific need within a web app where you need to capture more usage options than just the standard mouse keyboard, don't use accesskeys. Don't use tabindex either. I hate running into cookie-cutter weblogs and such that don't need these things but use them anyway, making the expected use-case scenarios very confusing. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon???
On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 3:33 AM, Keryx Web [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Adam Martin skrev: Hey guys... it is great that talk about accessibility and chrome has been raised - but I do think that we need to wait until it is out of beta. A beta is supposed to be feature complete. otherwoise it's an alpha. Just clear up my understanding, folks; is Internet Explorer accessible because Microsoft builds the accessibility features, or because a third-party software vendor builds the features? I know Microsoft has been very good about building a number of user-friendly features into Windows, like the on-screen keyboard and OS-level magnifying tool, but I thought that all the screen readers and similar assistive devices were developed by third parties. If Google Chrome is really open source, then it seems that the same could be done for it, with a lot less expense than designing assistive software/devices for a proprietary browser. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Coming very soon...
I can't believe this is still going. You guys are ALL off-topic for this list. Please take your employment discussions elsewhere (like, off-list). 2008/9/4 nishanth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, You can send your profile and portfolio to this company. Sometimes we outsource some projects. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Coming very soon...
On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 7:24 AM, David Storey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3 Sep 2008, at 13:08, Todd Budnikas wrote: On Sep 3, 2008, at 6:19 AM, David Storey wrote: On 3 Sep 2008, at 11:42, tee wrote: On Sep 3, 2008, at 2:36 AM, David Storey wrote: On 3 Sep 2008, at 11:28, Regnard Raquedan wrote: Well, if it's akin to Safari, then it's as good as testing it there, right? :) Or is it...? No, it has a different JavaScript engine, and doesn't support a number of things the regular WebKit supports, such as text-shadow, @font-face and a few others. Does it support border-radius or -webkit-radius? no browsers support border-radius. It does support -webkit-border-radius, as far as I know (I'm running on Mac and parallels doesn't work on my 64-bit Vista, and I can't be bothered to do the few hours re-install process of Vista) -webkit-border-radius renders just fine. Running Chrome on XP on VMWare Fusion. http://www.css3.info/preview/rounded-border/ Without WebKit's anti-aliasing as far as I can tell from Twitter posts. I'm wondering if this is due to webkit using platform specific code for things like this and text-shadow, as being a reason why they are not in Chrome (Safari on Windows has a compatibility layer), or if it is a older branch. I'm thinking more the former. Could someone tell me if it has Google Download Accelerator or other Google Toolbar features built in? I'm just wondering how much is under the hood... -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Facebook downgrading support for IE6
On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 2:51 PM, Jens Brueckmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/9/2 Gregorio Espadas [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I like the IE6Blocker from Chris Coyier, check it out at http://css-tricks.com/ie-6-blocker-script/ ONLY if a web application absolutely relies on certain javascript methods not available in old browsers may a user be warned about difficulties in using this application. In these cases, detection should be done by testing said methods, not by user agent sniffing. Leave it to WSG to assume that Facebook.com is just another website. Log into Facebook and profile your session with Firebug or a similar Javascript tool. What you will soon find is that Facebook is one of the most complex web applications out there today. It has a huge number of AJAX animation events throughout the many sections, as well as a live chat feature similar to the one in Gmail. Just to give you an example, Facebook has a continuously running presence monitor that sends information via AJAX to the backend even as the logged-in user is idle, to track and identify how users interact with the site. One of the uses for this is to tell other users, with certainty, if you are currently online. Facebook has had a warning message on their homepage for a long time; I remember seeing it at the beginning of this year. It's a way of letting users know that some features of the site are bound to be hindered because IE 6 is so outdated. I think this message went up around the time that Facebook chat was released (April 2008), this is why: http://www.theangryhedgehog.com/2008/04/facebook-chat-and-ie-6.html Currently, Facebook has a redesign of their site which is opt-in until the testing period is over, which does not work with IE 6. It is well understood that the new version features a lot more Javascript AJAX than the current design, and therefore, will take a while to make compatible with IE 6, if at all. Facebook has not finished the opt-in, testing period for their new design, so it is not correct to say that they are downgrading support for IE 6. We can only say that if those users are still blocked when the new design is actually released to all users (which is scheduled to happen soon). We might not agree with the way Facebook sniffs the user's browser, but the point I am trying to make is that Facebook is far more a web app than many people on this list may have ever known, and it certainly does have different requirements than our blogs and public-facing brochure sites. Also, since Facebook hasn't actually finished their latest redesign, there is still a chance that they will support IE 6 in the end; but I doubt it. Last link: http://siteanalytics.compete.com/google.com+myspace.com+facebook.com/?metric=uv -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Skype changing format of my pages
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 11:29 AM, designer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know a way to prevent Skype changing telephone numbers into skype buttons on pages I have carefully designed/coded. It bothers others too : http://forum.skype.com/index.php?showtopic=113096 When a user installs Skype or updates to a version that has this feature, they have the option to turn it off. It even tells them what it is going to do. I understand that most users aren't savvy enough to pay attention to these things, but this is like turning off the custom outline on clicking links in Mozilla, or turning off the click sound in IE. Also, even if users find it annoying, I really doubt they will look down on *your* site because it does the same exact thing all the other sites do, that is, it has that weird-phone-number-thing (as your client might have put it). Basically, don't fix what you didn't break! -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] resetting input boxes
On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 2:16 AM, John Unsworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Bennett wrote: Hi Kevin, It's not clear what you're trying to achieve. Can you give us some more information? Paul Christian Snodgrass wrote: I think he's essentially talking about a CSS reset file, specific to input, to neutralize all of the browser differences. I'm not sure of the specific elements, but just about any CSS reset should handle it. This is the one I prefer: http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2007/05/01/reset-reloaded/ Yahoo also has it's own, but it's a lot bigger and I think somewhat of an overkill. -- Christian Snodgrass Azure Ronin Web Design http://www.arwebdesign.net Phone: 859.816.7955 Having just been working on a series of pages consisting predominately of form elements, including inputs fields/boxes etc, and also using the Eric Meyer reset, it's my experience thus far that the reset does not neutralize all the browser differences. Opera for one seems to treat the sizing of the input boxes differently to Firefox and Safari. Added to that you can differing results depending on the system of measurement you use, ie: em's vs pixel vs percentage, although I'm inclined now to stick to percentage, ensuring the containing div or fieldset is sized consistently across browsers with either em's or px's. I'm not informed or smart enough to know exactly why this is, but suspect that as the browser is applying the OS input elements, in the process it is creating dimensions that go beyond padding and margin. Otherwise the reset would work? Slightly off topic, but still with the Eric Meyer reset, I found that when it declares a universal - background: transparent; - it disabled Safari and IE7 from applying a class to the tr in a table when I tried to Zebra stripe the table rows. I removed it (the univeral reset), and at least in Safari (not yet tested on IE7) it was fixed. Firefox, Opera and Camino all rendered the stripes as expected. Can anyone possibly explain that? 2 quick things: line-height: the ugly henchman lurking in the shadows, ready to strike when margin and padding have been defeated. Eric Meyer's CSS reset is old and outdated. gotta run, hope that helps. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] resetting input boxes
On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 10:40 PM, kevin mcmonagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: can they be set for consistency across browsers? if so what are all the attributes that need to be reset, i missing something. -best kevin The short answer is, no, not really. Some browsers have very limited support for form styling. And some will render a completely bland form if you apply the simplest of resets. So I don't know if there's much more that can be done past what Blueprint already offers. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Pop-Ups (BOM)
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 6:30 AM, David Fuller - magickweb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Popup messages can be VERY useful… These days with floating divs etc they are not always necessary, however I do agree that they have a definite place. I think they can be more useful when a small sound is played. The other option is an error message that appears in the document flow. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Opera files antitrust against MS: standards one part
On Dec 16, 2007 7:06 PM, Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does your company hire the worst developers and designers or the best it can afford at the salary it is willing to pay. I just finished working for a company that would hire the worst developers and designers. I think it was something called outsourcing. So, yeah. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Opera files antitrust against MS: standards one part
On Dec 16, 2007 8:27 PM, Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Look how Firefox has grown to 16% of the market. I think that shows how you are not correct. I also suspect that Open Office is going to start challenging Microsoft as well. Especially is MSFT succeeds with establishing good copy protection Didn't OOo file a complaint regarding Microsoft's Open XML format? I know they started a petition because Microsoft bucked their ODT format and came up with their own, which has been rammed through the standards approval process instead of ODT. So even Microsoft plays the standards system, and OOo appeals to the same powers-that-be as Opera. Do you follow the news about the companies you support? -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Opera files antitrust against MS: standards one part
On 12/13/07, dwain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 12/13/07, Gav... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, OS suppliers should have the option of providing whatever default packages they want, and leave the options open for users to install their own alternatives. Those that need a better, standards compliant web browser will know they can get one. but their os should be able to run other optional packages that the customer chooses. vista has little to no support from other software vendors and drivers are another issue all together. We are on the verge of getting a worse peanut gallery than when we were discussing the target lawsuit. Windows is known for supporting many drivers and programs out-of-the-box. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Opera files antitrust against MS: standards one part
On 12/13/07, John Faulds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First, it requests the Commission to obligate Microsoft to unbundle Internet Explorer from Windows and/or carry alternative browsers pre-installed on the desktop. I can't see that flying. Is anyone going to ask Apple to stop shipping their OS with Safari? Your question is perfectly valid, but where have you been? The EU courts just slammed Microsoft with a huge penalty for their bundling practice with Windows Media Player, which came after a complaint from Real. I don't remember who it was specifically, but someone representing the court said that they are very much against Microsoft's market dominance and want to do more to prevent similar practices from Microsoft. So yes, I definitely see this flying. My concern with the complaint is that it is clearly twofold; that Microsoft is holding standards back, and that Microsoft is holding competitors back. One is valid, the other is clearly business. I don't like the fact that these two things go together. I want to see Microsoft get serious about standards support, but I don't think it's fair to apply a double standard when other companies use bundling practices too. Regardless, I think Opera struck when the iron was hot and I can see this having a lot of traction. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] preserve whitespace
- Original Message - From: Simon Cockayne To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 8:09 PM Subject: [WSG] preserve whitespace Hi, !-- Happy Holidays one and all! -- I have an HTML page and I want to (well my client wants me to) preserve leading blanks in the value of a table data cell. I could use pre /pre around the data. Or I could use an nbsp; for each leading blank. Any others? What is the standard way to do it? I would recommend pre over nbsp;, that way the data itself would stay clean. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Browser test: Construct
On Dec 9, 2007 3:21 AM, Philippe Wittenbergh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 9, 2007, at 4:37 PM, Christian Montoya wrote: Is there any way at all to prevent the FAYT behavior? If I apply return false, will that work? I don't know :-) Nobody ever managed to block FAYT, seen from here. To set FAYT to work automatically, add user_pref(accessibility.typeaheadfind.autostart, true); in your user.js (or use about:config). OK, I added return false; to the keybindings and successfully repressed FAYT in FF on WinVista, but I don't know if that works in all gecko browsers. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Browser test: Construct
Hello list, I just created a layout tool: http://lab.christianmontoya.com/construct/ It's nowhere near to complete yet but I need to get an idea of how many browsers support it fully so far. I know it works great in FF 2, Opera 9 IE 7 on Win. Vista with all the click events and keyboard events supported. If I could get some tests on older browsers and other operating systems, that would be great. Thanks in advance! -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Browser test: Construct
On 12/8/07, Philippe Wittenbergh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 9, 2007, at 11:49 AM, Christian Montoya wrote: I just created a layout tool: http://lab.christianmontoya.com/ construct/ [...] If I could get some tests on older browsers and other operating systems, that would be great. Thanks in advance! Gecko nightly builds (Camino Minefield) seem to do what you expect. Of course, using 'J', 'K', 'L' triggers FAYT (Find as you type) when set to start automatically. Most people reasonably versed in the use of Gecko browsers have it set that way. Safari 3 doesn't get your keyboard input. OS X 10.4.11. OK, I expected that. From what I know, jQuery keyboard events don't work in Safari. As for FAYT, darn, that's good to know. I'll probably add a virtual button panel to get around this issue, but it's nice to at least be able to map keys in a couple browsers. Is there any way at all to prevent the FAYT behavior? If I apply return false, will that work? -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Disabling Fonts in Font Stacks
On Nov 28, 2007 1:23 PM, James Leslie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been looking over some inherited sites and noticed a very common font-family declaration of arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif. I know that arial and verdana are very different in size so thought it would be good to make sure there are not any problems with one font not being available, but aside from changing the stylesheet or removing the font, I don't seem to be able to do this. If you use pixels for font-sizing, the text will be the same size regardless of which font is used. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Validation questions
On Nov 26, 2007 10:34 PM, Taco Fleur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have an error where it says end tag for element P which is not open. The p tag is actually within javascript, within the headscript I don't see how I can fix this error. Clearly you are using XHTML. You have to wrap all your JS with CDATA, I don't have a specific example but look that up and you'll find your solution. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SIte Maps?
On Nov 20, 2007 7:04 PM, Jermayn Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In coming in late to the discussion: Do we really need a sitemap? I recently read an article were it talked that if all the seo was done properly and it was smallish, you probably do not need a sitemap. I remember that article too. It was saying that a sitemap is meant to expose pages of your site that are difficult to reach for a search spider that starts at the homepage. If you have a working link structure and anyone can reach any page of your site by just following all the links, everything is already exposed and you don't need a sitemap. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Site content not showing up in Firefox on Leopard
Here is a screenshot of a page from my site in Firefox 2.0.0.9 on Leopard 10.5.1: http://www.flickr.com/photos/thephotoherald/2049540131/ I have no idea why so much text is not appearing at all. Could someone with Leopard look into this for me? Thanks in advance. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Help (another topic)
On Nov 10, 2007 10:30 AM, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks James, Only one minor problem, I know nearly nothing about PHP. How would I write this up? This is TOTALLY off topic for this list so I'll answer this question now but if you have further questions just e-mail me directly, do not e-mail the list about programming questions. ?php echo $_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR']; ? in a .php file and the rest of the file can just be plain HTML. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] POSH article question
On Nov 2, 2007 8:36 AM, Tom Livingston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Case in point, Wordpress doesn't offer i or b in the post editor, just em and strong, and yet the buttons for these say i and b! Annoying! Thanks Christian and others, Another question though... do you have an example of proper, semantic use of strong vs b? Is it just just a tag to allow you to style your own visual emphasis? How about strong vs. em - what's the semantic difference? Here's the shameful confession - I am guilty of blindly swapping these tags for b and i. Now I have to back up my argument to go back! :-P I recommend looking at the recommended tags for HTML 5 to see some more attempts at creating semantic tags for uses of b and i. b and i have no semantic value, but there are lots of times when strong and em would be the wrong tag to use. Also, there's microformats but I don't know if those cover all the bases. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] POSH article question
I don't think it was to imply that b and i are necessarily OK, though they are. The point was this... say you are referring to the title of a book. You can underline it, or you can italicize it... the correct thing to do when italics are available is to italicize it. So you would have done: iThe Call of the Wild/i by Jack London Now a careless standards-nut might come across that and do: emThe Call of the Wild/em by Jack London I'm pretty sure Roger was trying to discourage that sort of behavior. Case in point, Wordpress doesn't offer i or b in the post editor, just em and strong, and yet the buttons for these say i and b! Annoying! -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] multilingual website advice
On 11/1/07, Andrew Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I've been asked to work on a multilingual website - including rtl scripts. I've done bits and pieces before, but always other languages in predominantly english websites. Although I see the problems as mainly technical, I'm getting vibes from others in the team about some mysterious 'cultural sensitivities' that we'll have to consider as the audience in this case includes the Islamic community. Perhaps foolishly, I had assumed that a sensibly designed website, free of pr0n ads and political cartoons, would be acceptable in most cultures, but maybe I'm just naive. One issue is color - some colors are taboo in various cultures and you want to know about this if the site is going to be marketed to a global audience. I can't find you many links about this but I did find this one: http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/eai/implementation/archives/internationalization-of-documents-documentation-16608 Another issue is graphics... if you've got any stock images of people like some sites do, you have to think about what certain cultures might think about how people dress. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SilverLight
On 10/30/07, Derek Featherstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/30/07, Christian Montoya wrote: On 10/30/07, Derek Featherstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christian - do you have a reference for that anywhere? I'd be really interested in seeing it (as I'm sure others would be too!) Just read the spec on XAML, which is what Silverlight uses: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms752059.aspx Hi Christian - I actually meant a reference on this part of your statement: [because Silverlight uses XML] Microsoft claims that Silverlight is much easier for screen readers, search spiders, etc. to work with. Can you show us where they claim it is much easier for screen readers, search spiders to work with? THAT is what I want to see... I know I read it somewhere but unfortunately I didn't save the article. If I come across it again, I'll send it over. Until then, assume it's just hearsay. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: worst site I've seen lately
On 10/29/07, Andrew Boyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Paul, There are bits about it I liked too - I would have done it differently, but I think that it achieves what they set out to do - talk up their fonts to those that want to buy them. That may be true, but I can't actually suffer the UI enough to look through their catalog. Maybe my tolerance for pain is lower than yours. It's just too hard to go through them all. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SilverLight
On 10/29/07, Travis D. Falls [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I have to ask... what do you all think of SilverLight... do you think it is just another way to do Flash work in a different Tech. or will it be more? It's a little more. I've been looking into it and the distinct difference between Silverlight and Flash is that Silverlight is rendered XML while Flash is a compiled format. Therefore, Microsoft claims that Silverlight is much easier for screen readers, search spiders, etc. to work with. We'll see if things really do work out that way. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SilverLight
On 10/30/07, Derek Featherstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/29/07, Christian Montoya wrote: ... Silverlight is rendered XML while Flash is a compiled format. Therefore, Microsoft claims that Silverlight is much easier for screen readers, search spiders, etc. to work with. Christian - do you have a reference for that anywhere? I'd be really interested in seeing it (as I'm sure others would be too!) Just read the spec on XAML, which is what Silverlight uses: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms752059.aspx -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SilverLight
On 10/30/07, Frank Palinkas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From an accessibility aspect, a screen scrapper maybe be able to do its job. However, any attempt to work the markup will be futile. Obviously this wouldn't be as easy as understanding plain HTML markup, but what I was saying was that a device could refer to Scene.xaml.js and parse that to get the relevant content/actions/etc. It's just slightly better than having to look at a .swf to figure out what's going on. New work will have to be done to make sense of Silverlight but the process should be easier than anything Adobe did with Flash... not that I'm bashing Flash here. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: worst site I've seen lately
On 10/28/07, Devi Web Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/28/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just found what I consider to be an extremely annoying, very blinky website someone spent way too much time writing flash for. http://www.ourtype.be/ Sorry, I didn't intend to send that to wsg, although I guess it's related... It kind of is... this could have been done with Flash or Javascript, but the end result would have been the same... bad! Horrible IA here, I can't really skim or even get an idea about the fonts and I can't imagine people would really spend time on that site. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Kear Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:14 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash Since we are likely to have perhaps 1 or 2 users only using any of those browsers, and by far the vast majority of our users are using WindowsXP with IE6 or IE7 (remember this is not a IT related site - our customers are tshirt retailers and advertising agencies) I've decided the cost/benefit of fixing that isn't worth it. I work with a 6 non-techie business types who are all involved in advertising/licensing related functions and they all use Firefox by choice. Have you ever asked your users what they actually use? Do you have any stats on browsers (Google analytics will tell you this)? If not, you are just making a poor assumption. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Leopard mail and standards
On 10/22/07, Al Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Breton Slivka [EMAIL PROTECTED] Have you tried outlook 2007 Lately? the way it reads/displays html has been THE issue ever since it was released. No. I'd assumed it displayed the same as OE6 or Windows Mail (Vista). A.. it doesn't. You should do a test and send us your results. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Web Standards In Colleges and Universities
On Sat, October 20, 2007 10:18 am, James Jeffery wrote: What power do i have (if any) to try and get the college to understand they cannot use a cowboy to teach tomorrows computer experts. Should i use my essay and examples and take it to the head of the college? I really don't know how to go about this, but its definatly a problem. I really am angry and annoyed, you pay money to be taught the correct methods. People who don't understand are fine, they will believe him, and thats the shocking part about it all. My best advice to you is this: don't let your anger get in the way if you do talk to anyone. If you come across as angry and annoyed, you might just be ignored. You've already done yourself a disservice by sounding a bit immature over e-mail with the teacher. Also, I hate to say it but I don't think there is much you can do. It's definitely worth trying and hopefully someone will listen, but when it's 1 student in thousands vs. anyone on the college staff, I've never heard of the student winning. My recommendation is that you at least get the lecturer to allow students to make sites by hand instead of with Dreamweaver if they wish. Explain to him that people can do some really great stuff by hand and it's cheaper that way than relying on commercial software and if they can make it look just as good (or better), then he shouldn't force them to use Dreamweaver. At least that would be something of a compromise. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Jquery and/or Yahoo UI
On 10/13/07, Jason Foss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry if this is a bit of a newbie question, but what's the issue with innerHTML? It's not an official W3C DOM method. When you fill the content of an element with innerHTML, the browser will render it but as far as I can remember, the content doesn't really exist properly within the DOM. The proper DOM methods, such as append, remove, etc. do build up the DOM properly. In a way, it's kind of like embed vs. object. Of course, if you really want to use innerHTML, you could probably go right ahead. But if you are already using a very DOM-friendly framework like jQuery, you may as well take advantage of the face that it makes all the proper DOM methods very easy to use. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Jquery and/or Yahoo UI
On 10/13/07, Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/13/07, Jason Foss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry if this is a bit of a newbie question, but what's the issue with innerHTML? But if you are already using a very DOM-friendly framework like jQuery, you may as well take advantage of the face that it makes all the proper DOM methods very easy to use. * of the FACT. I can't write e-mails in the morning... -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Jquery and/or Yahoo UI
On 10/13/07, Dan Dorman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/12/07, Simon Cockayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am I going to see green lights* in Firefox for standards compliance, error-free CSS and Javascript...oh...and will the HTML and CSS validate? I don't think _any_ Javascript libraries would affect HTML/CSS validation in any way whatsoever, because the validators don't even _use_ JS: they look at the source the way it's originally served up, before any possible JS modifications. Or is this incorrect? Do any of the validation tools revise their validation states based on JS interaction? You are correct. But Simon was also talking about standards compliance, which includes using DOM standards. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Jquery and/or Yahoo UI
On 10/12/07, Simon Cockayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Anyone using jQuery (http://jquery.com/) or Yahoo UI (http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/) ? Do they, help to, build nice Standards based apps? Am I going to see green lights* in Firefox for standards compliance, error-free CSS and Javascript...oh...and will the HTML and CSS validate? If you want to absolutely follow standards, make sure you don't use any methods that wrap innerHTML. jQuery has one but it also has a bunch of methods that use the proper DOM methods (appendElement, removeElement, etc) so stick to the proper DOM methods and you will be fine. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] DOCTYPE prevents script processing in IE!
On 10/8/07, Simon Cockayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
Adding DOCTYPE stops page functioning with IE!
The following HTML works (in QUIRKS) for both IE and
Firefox...alertING Key Pressed!...erm...when a key is pressed.
html lang=en-US
head
title
Keypress testing.
/title
meta http-equiv=Content-Type
content=text/html;charset=utf-8
script type=text/javascript
function handleKeyPress(evt) {
alert(Key pressed!)
}
/script
/head
body onkeydown=handleKeyPress(event);
pPress a key!/p
/body
/html
However, adding...
!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd;
...before the HTML...makes the Firefox page valid AND it still works ok.
Whereas the IE page, though also now valid, but no alert appears upon key
press!
Does it matter whether you return true or false? Because every example
I've seen returns something, but you don't return anything.
--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.net
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***
Re: [WSG] Cost of Accessibility
On 10/5/07, Christie Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christie wrote: It's very, very difficult to defend the Target site, it's an unusable mess so I don't use it, but Target does have the right to have a bad site. Kerry Not if they lose this case, they don't. Christie Then they will still have to the right to have a bad, accessible site. The case has nothing to do with that. The case is deciding whether they have the right to discriminate against the blind. Let's all at least get on board with facts, ok? -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Cost of Accessibility
On 10/5/07, Christie Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you implying that shopping is a luxury? As horrible as you may find it, shopping is actually necessary for human survival in a capitalist society. It's the only way we can acquire goods. = Good point, I'm going to chew on that one for awhile. I still don't think a right to shop at Target should be legislated and I suspect there's already too much emphasis on shopping in society. I've been reading multiple reports that indicate people are letting their mortgage payments slide and keeping their credit cards paid up so they can continue to have their right to shop. So just because some people have credit problems and mortgage trouble, blind people shouldn't have a right to shop? A right to ownership and commerce in a capitalist society? A right to self-sustainability? You need to stop letting random crap get in your way of analyzing the issue here. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard
On 10/4/07, Joseph Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree, reading her blog she seems to be a knee-jerk reactionary Republican who wants government support when they get shafted and government to lay off when others accuse them of shafting. Someone earlier said she was intelligent - I find little evidence of this. I can't speak at all for Michelle's character but let's not make this a mudsling. It's way off-topic. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard
On 10/3/07, Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Should every store in the world be forced to provide a ramp for wheelchair access? No. Is it logical to do so for the large stores that serve thousands of people every day? Yes. But just because it is a logical thing to do doesn't mean they should be forced to do it. If they don't do it, they lose money. End of story. If companies were really regulated that way, most of them would not have wheelchair access. Just look at other countries that don't have similar laws. People have to be carried up the stairs. Would anybody go and sue the local grocery store for having an inaccessible website? No. Because nobody would expect them to spend much time or money or effort into building a website that works. So where do you draw the line? You draw it at the company that you do reasonably expect to have a website that works. You can't treat company's different before the law just because one is making more money than the other. Now THAT would be discrimination. Companies (or, corporations) are not people. They are separate legal entities and therefore are subject to different treatment. You cannot compare one legal entity (a corporation) to another (a blind person). Not even the letter of the law does so. Companies get treated differently all the time. What might apply to one company won't apply to the next because one is huge and bordering on monopoly and the other is small and barely making a dent in its market. There is no bill of rights for companies, just legal precedents that influence what happens down the line based on what has been decided in the courts before. We always complain about people making peanut-gallery comments on the business blogs when they know nothing about the technology behind websites. Well, I'm complaining about the people making peanut-gallery comments on this list who know nothing about business or law. Make the arguments you want based on your opinions, but don't make things up. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Adobe Photoshop and flash With Jaws
On 9/26/07, marvin hunkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. well, next year looking at doing the diploma in information technology, website development. a couple of challenges i have, is that a couple of units, i probably will not be able to do, as one is to use advanced and basic features of adobe photoshop, to crop, manipulate images, and create 2d and 3d animation, using adobe flash, as part of my major project. Now, the National Traning Information System, which is governed by a national curriculum, for tafe across Australia, and comes from the department of education, canberra. now, as i will have trouble being deemed competent, because jaws, will not work with this software, as a core part of the course, and i have spoken to my disability office and the main lecturer, who organises the learning curriculum and talks to other lecturers. they will be using adobe photo shop, adobe flash. i know, i could probably use the flash development kit, but the major challenge is the graphics side of things. So they are willing to bend, in their curriculum, as they said i would have an advantage, if i had sighted help to crop, edit and manipulate the objects. so, got any tips, tricks, or any work arounds for that, or is this a dissability discrimination act complaint, that might change their mind and bend to accomodate, not just me, but another vision impaired friend of mine is doing the same diploma with new south wales tafe, as this is a national curriculum, and has been rolled out as the new training package for the past 12 months. if you can let me know, how to get round this problem, as the other subjects, i should be able to use php, editor, my sql database, visual studio.net 2005, for the asp stuff, etc. In my opinion, and unfortunately I'm only offering my opinion here, you should be able to make the case that Flash and Photoshop are not essential knowledge for Information Technology. There's a lot of work to be done with PHP, SQL, ASP, etc. that I don't think you would have any trouble finding employment without knowing Flash and Photoshop. If I were you, this would be my argument and I would tell them that you should be able to pursue this diploma with whatever technologies you are able to work with. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] question on 'logical tab order'
On 9/22/07, Tee G. Peng [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I still don't think my question get answered. I want to know, without using the tabindex, can one still claim to have the tab order in place? Or rather, how you guys define/understand 'logical tab order'? A google search on 'logical tab order', shows up results that are related to tabindex. Let me see if I can help... if you have the form elements in the order that you want users to fill them out, then they are in logical tab order... when the user tabs through them, they'll be going in the right order. It's better to do this than to set up a tabindex because that always messes with the natural behavior that someone would expect. Browsers are already set up to tab through things linearly, so just place them linearly. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] prettier forms
On 9/14/07, Maarten stolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I'm looking for pointers towards tutorials on how to make a form look prettier; especially the selectbox/pulldown and checkboxes are of interest. I think this article would be very useful to you: http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200701/styling_form_controls_with_css_revisited/ hope it helps. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Open Source CMS
On 9/12/07, Marghanita da Cruz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tee G. Peng wrote: On Sep 12, 2007, at 2:13 AM, Web Dandy Design wrote: Hi, Can anyone advise on the most accessible, open-source CMS between Joomla, Drupal or Plone? Modx cms snip Does anyone have any thoughts on Text Pattern? http://www.textpattern.com/ I do: use Wordpress http://www.wordpress.org/ -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Browser Check
On 9/7/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Browser check for the following site: http://www.condometropolis.com/buy_orlando_condos.php?Name=action=searchSubmit=Browse+All+Condos!first=yes Sorry to be off-topic, but is that domain name set in stone? Reading it left to right can be confusing. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] will Eric Meyer�s C SS SCULPTOR put me out of job?
If your job is making plain looking, cookie cutter templates, then yes, tools like these will put you out of a job. I see CSS as a box of watercolors; you can do really simple things with it, and you can do really complex things too. I doubt there will ever be software that can replicate the kinds of complex things I do with CSS, and that's why I'm not afraid of being replaced. And by the way, Blueprint is not a Google project, it's a project by Olav Bjorkoy that just so happens to be hosted on Google Code. And it's a CSS framework, which means that it can make your job easier (and help you make more money). It won't replace anything. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Standards and Blogs
Rick, Yes, you can make a Wordpress, Expression Engine, Textpattern, MovableType, etc. blog COMPLETELY validate. Example: http://www.christianmontoya.com/ You can even make a Wordpress blog (and probably the others) output valid HTML 4 instead of XHTML. Tutorial: http://www.christianmontoya.com/2006/02/13/serve-your-weblog-as-html-401/ -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE7 on XP security problems
On 8/9/07, M. Jama [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Guys, I am having this problem, I used custom Firefox properties to get the desired opacity effect filter:alpha(opacity=65);-moz-opacity:.65;opacity:.65; Now it works just fine on IE7:VISTA , FF:VISTA , FF:XP , FF:MAC, SAFARI:MAC, when it comes to IE7:XP the browser throws in the activex controller security in the information bar and disables my opacity effect, however if you accept it will enable it again , but people might get paranoid and suspicious about such matter. I am 99% certain your problem is with: filter:alpha(opacity=65); which is not a FF property, it's an IE ActiveX property. My suggestion is to hide this behind a conditional comment for IE 6 and use some other method with IE 7. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Who's A Front End Developer?
On 7/3/07, John Horner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just finished a project which required knowledge of the following: * HTML * CSS * Javascript * XML * Perl or PHP * SQL but what's the minimum set of skills we think someone should have to call themselves a web developer? You could make a case, I'm sure, for just HTML and CSS. You develop (non-interactive) web pages with HTML and CSS. Javascript is really a programming language. Should AJAX be listed seperately? However, if that's enough to call yourself a web developer, what do we call someone with all the skills above? The company I will be working at in the fall separates the back-end developers (PHP MySQL, ASP, Perl) from the front-end developers (HTML, CSS, Javascript). The front-end developers might have to know some back-end languages to a degree, but you really can do a lot with just HTML, CSS, Javascript, and XML. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Site Build It and CSS???
Dear list, I have a potential client who would like me to redesign her website with CSS (hooray!). Her current site runs on Site Built It! and she would like to remain with that system: http://buildit.sitesell.com/main/home.html From the looks of it, SBI! is archaic and I'm wondering how hard it is to make a CSS template for it. Has anyone on this lists worked with it in the past? Please let me know how it is. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Opera and Decimal Percentage Widths
Hello list, I have a test page set up at http://lab.christianmontoya.com/point-nine-nine-percent/ and on this page the 3rd and 4th rows have divs with 49.6% and 49.99% widths, respectively. These behave as expected in Firefox, Safari, and IE, but in Opera 9+ their widths are the same as 49%. It seems that Opera 9+ just doesn't do fractional sizes. Is this a bug in Opera? -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Safari now on Windows
On 6/11/07, Geoff Pack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James Ellis wrote: Now I don't have to buy a Mac... Then how will you test for Safari 1, 2, IE 5 Mac, etc? By posting to the Web Standards Group mailing list (with the subject line, Mac test please). -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Print style sheets
On 6/7/07, Lucien Stals [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I'd written a print style sheet for a site I'd done ( http://www.swin.edu.au/ads/ltshowcase/inspire/presentations.html ), but the feedback I got was that nobody knew it was there (unless they printed the page). So I hit google for some suggestions on how best to do this. This has lead to more confusion. One site I read suggested that print style sheets can confuse users when what comes out of the printer differs significantly from what they saw on the page. This is true in my case where I hide the navigation and some background images. I also change the font and justification to better suit print. So do people here think it's a good idea to have a print style sheet that differs from the screen style sheet? Yes! In the end, I used some javascript to allow users to switch between two style sheets on the screen. One is designed for the screen, the other designed for print. This way, if they print the page, they get what they see. What do people think about this approach. (If you are unclear from my description about how this works, just visit the page and toggle the print friendly view link near the top of the page). I definitely think it is important to let users know that the result from printing the page will be different than what they see on screen, only because a lot of users are used to wasting all their ink printing web pages that do not have print stylesheets, and think this is the norm. Whether it's a matter of explaining the feature to users or showing it on-screen, it helps the users who don't know about it. My approach has caused me a further problem: Because I used a link to trigger the script, clicks get added to the browsers history, when technically the user hasn't left the page. Any suggestions for how to get around this? Should I have used a select list? Isn't this problem solved by putting return false; in the event handler? Or am I missing something? -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Recommended screen size
On 6/4/07, kevin mcmonagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All right-after reading all the posts on this topic ive been reviewing my rational for sticking with fixed width layouts for the last 50 sites ive designed. Where can i find the latest tutorials, articles and examples of creating relative sized layouts. Specifically can anyone recommend a site dealing with coverting existings layouts to relative sizing. You mean fluid layouts? I have a site for that: cssliquid.com. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] A CMS for POSH sites?
On 5/25/07, David Dorward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 25 May 2007, at 11:54, Alastair Campbell wrote: Wordpress will, however, you might have to dig around to prevent it putting in closing slashes on head elements. (Closing slashes on content items such as images are fine, they are within the body and do not cause validation issues.) Not causing validation issues does not make them fine; even if the vast majority of user agents don't respect it, img / in an HTML document means An image element followed by a greater than sign. The HTML specification explicitly advises authors to avoid them: http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/appendix/notes.html#h-B.3.7 Getting Wordpress to use HTML 4.01 as opposed to XHTML is something I do all the time, and it's not hard at all. Read my article: http://www.christianmontoya.com/2006/02/13/serve-your-weblog-as-html-401/ Wordpress can be pretty good about using semantic HTML (it encourages em and strong at the least) and there are some plugins out there that add microformats support if you are interested in that. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Converting font size from pt to % or em
On 2007/05/25 15:24 (GMT+0800) Nick Cowie apparently typed: 1em = 100% = 16px = 16pt (yes 1px = 1pt for the screen) in all PC based browsers since 2000 Not true. On high resolution displays (widescreen laptops, for example) that use 120 dpi instead of the standard, classic 96 dpi and use Windows' font-scaling to compensate, 1em = 100% = 18px = ?pt. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Converting font size from pt to % or em
On 5/25/07, Philip Kiff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Felix Miata wrote: What matters is: [...] 5-that any deviation a designer makes from 100% is arbitrary, as it's made from an entirely unknown starting point 100% of the visitor's choice equals respect for the visitor. I'm not really convinced that this is an issue of respect for the users of one's site. The reference that Kane provided to Owen Briggs's charts over at thenoodleincident.com I think demonstrates how the operating system manufacturers and browser companies are the ones who have been arbitrary about what 100% font size on the body element means. Here is a link to Owen Briggs's page discussing Sane CSS Typography: http://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/typography/index.html As Kane pointed out, and as Owen Briggs's screenshot studies demonstrate, the use of 76% as the body font size is to create a more even base-line size across multiple browsers. This 76% figure is not therefore entirely arbitrary: setting the body font size to 65%-76% or so is the size that designers have come up with over the years that allows them the most freedom to produce designs that appear similiar across different browsers and different operating platforms. These levels don't come from any disrespect felt towards site visitors, but from a disrespect for the arbitrariness of different browser defaults and a desire to override the choices made by those browsers. Isn't this basically the same kind of thing that a designer does when they apply zeroing to the body margins or body padding or to any other CSS element that different browsers set differently. Designers modify the default settings of CSS elements all the time - that is what a designer does in order to create a design. Sure, designers should create designs that scale nicely and play well with user specified font sizes, and of course web designers should learn to embrace the idea that the sites they create will be accessed in different ways and with different technologies that will not permit pixel-perfect identical versions to be served to all users. However, that doesn't mean that they have to give up on trying to produce designs that look almost identical to the way they want in the default settings of the browsers that appear most frequently in their site traffic logs. I wonder, is it possible that 65%-76% base size body font is in fact the level that has become a kind of standard on the web? Or perhaps the web has a dual standard: one is 65-76% and the other is 100%? In any case, I'm not convinced that the choice by many web designers to use 65-76% will be easily overcome, especially given its usefulness from a design standpoint, and the apparent arbitrariness of the 100% alternative. I hate to make a quick reply to a long post, but not all designers set body font size to 62.5% when creating websites. It's enough to start at 100% and set nested containers to fractions of that... just do the math starting off from 16px. The point that Felix is making is that setting the body to something small like 62.5% is very destructive, since user stylesheets and user settings usually just override the body rule (and ruin all your specific rules). -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Converting font size from pt to % or em
On 5/25/07, Paul Novitski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 5/25/2007 03:10 PM, Christian Montoya wrote:
I hate to make a quick reply to a long post, but not all designers set
body font size to 62.5% when creating websites. It's enough to start
at 100% and set nested containers to fractions of that... just do the
math starting off from 16px. The point that Felix is making is that
setting the body to something small like 62.5% is very destructive,
since user stylesheets and user settings usually just override the
body rule (and ruin all your specific rules).
ruin? Wouldn't it just make everything larger if they overrode the
stylesheet with, say, body {font-size: 100%}?
I guess it will depend on which aspects of the layout are widthed in
ems, but for most pages I'd think it would just start you out at a
larger degree of [text and/or layout] magnification.
(The past tense of the verb to width I just coined is so difficult
to pronounce I just had to use it.)
It can ruin text if it means that things suddenly get much bigger than
the user or designer ever expected and (sometimes) breaks out of
containers. If I enforce 18px as a default because I have a high
resolution display and no elegant way of scaling fonts, I would expect
all text to be just a step larger than the default 16px that most
users at 96 dpi would get. But then you are talking about a page where
the default was intended to start at 10px getting enlarged by a factor
of 1.4, for example, on a container, and with my default of 18px
suddenly I'm getting 25 or 26 px, much much bigger than what I wanted
and bigger than what the designer expected. That's ruined in my book.
IMO it's not hard to just leave the default body size alone and size
from there, which is why I do that in my own stylesheets.
--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***
