Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: [WSG] semantics of a simple form

2008-10-01 Thread Drew Trusz
 The aspx programmer is open to standards and may be receptive to my advice.


 how about this:

 fieldset

 legendRoom Search/legend
 div class=checkin
 labelCheck-in Date:/label
 select name=...
 option value=101/option
 /select ..
 /div
 div class=checkout
 label for=...Check-out Date:/label
 select name=...
 ./select
 div class=button
 input type=submit name=... value=Search id=... /
 /div
 /div
 /fieldset

 ...allthough when i look at it this nearly feels like a list to me...
 -best
 kevin


Reading slow these days.

An explicit label has two parts: the label with its for attribute
and the id attribute in the control. Your example need to have the
id attribut equal to the for attribute of the label added to the
select:
label for=bbbselect name=xxx id=bbb

Or use the implicit form which includes the select in the label and
therefore doesn't need the for  or id attributes:
labelCheck-in Date:
select name=...
option value=101/option
/select
/label

Most form look like lists, don't they? What makes them different is
you are collecting data with which something is done.

drew


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Re: [WSG] semantics of a simple form

2008-09-26 Thread Drew Trusz
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 4:28 PM, kevin mcmonagle
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 im not an expert on this but should there be a fieldset or legend around
 this?
 not even sure if it qualifies as a form, although it has a submit button.



The reference about forms is:
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html

If you are going to see this as a form you are goping to have to
rewrite it to include labels and other requirements. All in the specs.

The basic purpose of the form element, as found in the above cited
Chapt 17 Form, is

The FORM element acts as a container for controls. It specifies:

* The layout of the form (given by the contents of the element).
* The program that will handle the completed and submitted form
(the action attribute). The receiving program must be able to parse
name/value pairs in order to make use of them.
* The method by which user data will be sent to the server (the
method attribute).
* A character encoding that must be accepted by the server in
order to handle this form (the accept-charset attribute). User agents
may advise the user of the value of the accept-charset attribute
and/or restrict the user's ability to enter unrecognized characters.

A form can contain text and markup (paragraphs, lists, etc.) in
addition to form controls.

While it is possible that the check-in-check-out is truly a header, it
seems unlikely. It feels like a text sizing issue and that should be
done through css not mangled headers. I realize you may have no
control over that but it seems worth mentioning.


drew


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Re: [WSG] ibm's adesigner says....

2008-08-29 Thread Drew Trusz
On 8/28/08, dwain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 i've been working on the accessibility of a page.  i have added
 longdesc inside the img tag with the page where the information is
 found.  according to what i've read the d link is deprecated.

 adesigner says that i need the d link in addition to the longdesc.
 i feel that i can safely ignore the errors since the d link is
 deprecated.

 any thoughts on the matter?

In a sense the longdesc is functionally the equivalent of the old d
link. The specs define a longdesc as:

This attribute specifies a link to a long description of the image.
This description should supplement the short description provided
using the alt attribute. When the image has an associated image map,
this attribute should provide information about the image map's
contents. This is particularly important for server-side image maps.
Since an IMG element may be within the content of an A element, the
user agent's mechanism in the user interface for accessing the
longdesc resource of the former must be different than the mechanism
for accessing the href resource of the latter.
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/objects.html#adef-longdesc-IMG

Hence it appears not as text but as a link in the example found in the specs:
IMG src=sitemap.gif
 alt=HP Labs Site Map
 longdesc=sitemap.html

I suppose you could be very careful about the length of an alt
description and try to fit the material in that.


drew.


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Re: [WSG] Removing space from division between header and content wasWhy css settings a background image in the body tag wouldn't work

2008-07-30 Thread Drew Trusz
 Now here is my question someone mentioned starting to use em instead of
 pixels for all of this. How does this work?

 Michael Horowitz

em's are somewhat like cubits and leagues. The typographers will give
you a full discourse, or six, about them. (A lot of the discourse will
even be interesting. )Consider an em to be 15px or 16px if you think
size matters.

And actually size does matter since an em will scale. As font settings
are changed, em sizes with the changes. So 16 at 100% (unless you, the
end user, redefine 100%) and 32ish at 200%. Being somewhat mystical is
an advantage. And is furthermore part and parcel of the advantages of
fluid designs implicit in separating presentation and content.

Amazingly it all does fit together.

andy


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Re: [WSG] Re: Form (layout/accessibiity)

2008-07-10 Thread Drew Trusz
On 7/9/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Is it appropriate that I have one label for two inputs or does anyone
 know of a surefire way to hide second label I have tried this but it does not
 seem cross browser

Only one input per label according to the fine manual
The LABEL element may be used to attach information to controls. Each
LABEL element is associated with exactly one form control.
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#edef-LABEL



One alternative is to use the implicit association format which would
allow you to have the two necessary labels and use an expected
separator between them. A dash? A blank space? In the States it would
be Zip 5+4 with two input boxes and a space between them. Something
like this:

labelPostcodeinput type=text class=postcode
id=PostCode1 name=PostCode1  maxlength=4 /
/label -
labelinput type=text id=PostCode2 name=PostCode2
maxlength=4 / /label

drew


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Re: [WSG] Marking up company logo

2008-05-31 Thread Drew Trusz
On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 9:06 AM, Jens Brueckmann
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I said it may explain ALA's approach, but that doesn't mean I like the idea
  ;)
  fwiw, I never use more than one H1 per document since I'm using it for site
  title. imho, if H1 is used for site title it can't be used again in the
  page.

 I agree. Two level-1 headings seem somewhat confusing to me.


Why is it confusing? Unusual perhaps.  What's the basis in the specs
for this kind of argument? The specs discuss sections not pages or
documents -- just sections. If an author is comfortable defining a
section as a page or a document, that's fine. But saying that once an
h1 is used as a page title it can't be used again on the page, or that
ALA has the right way simply can't be supported. These are simply
alternate interpretations of the term section. Indeed again it is
worth pointing out that in the specs h1 is wrapped in a div to help
define the section not the other way around.

Even the discussion of skipping numbered headers isn't definitive. The
note says some people not you must not. Granted that the some
people is as I recall having this discussion a few years back, IEEE,
it is still not normative.. Again, if you want to read the tea leaves,
look at the html5 specs. There h1-h6 are clearly subordinate to
sections and site headers.

So within rather broad guidelines it is a matter of choice. When and
if 5 is implemented the choices are more confined and proper semantic
use of elements will go much further towards making it possible for
UA's to more fruitfully interpret author intent  which is the point of
css and xhtml in enhancing usability and accessibility.

drew


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Re: [WSG] Marking up company logo

2008-05-30 Thread Drew Trusz

 I'd say when it comes to news the source is very important, so imho the
 publisher is key.

 Imaging this:

 h1The Times/h1
 h2There is water on Mars/h2

 or this:

 h1The Sun/h1
 h2There is water on Mars/h2

 versus:

 h1There is water on Mars/h1

 --

So following the specs that a  heading element briefly describes the
topic of the section it introduces. Heading information may be used by
user agents, for
example, to construct a table of contents for a document
automatically you now have:


I. The Times
  A. There is water on Mars

Or


I. The Sun
   A. There is water on Mars


Or

1. There is water on Mars


Perhaps this might work:

1. The Sun

II. There is water on mars.





drew


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Re: [WSG] Marking up company logo

2008-05-28 Thread Drew Trusz
On 5/28/08, Chris Pearce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 For a few years now I've been marking up a clients company logo as a h1. I
 just wanted to get an idea of how many people actually do this compared to
 using a html image tag? I believe a h1 is more semantically correct
 however I'd be interested in seeing what other people on this list think.


Headers and particularly h1 headers are not the most important item
on a page. Headers introduce sections of which there can be more than
one on a page and which can run more than one page. This is what the
html 4.01 specs say about headers:

A heading element briefly describes the topic of the section it
introduces. Heading information may be used by user agents, for
example, to construct a table of contents for a document
automatically.

There are six levels of headings in HTML with H1 as the most important
and H6 as the least. Visual browsers usually render more important
headings in larger fonts than less important ones.

The following example shows how to use the DIV element to associate a
heading with the document section that follows it. Doing so allows you
to define a style for the section (color the background, set the font,
etc.) with style sheets.

DIV class=section id=forest-elephants 
H1Forest elephants/H1
PIn this section, we discuss the lesser known forest elephants.
...this section continues...
DIV class=subsection id=forest-habitat 
H2Habitat/H2
PForest elephants do not live in trees but among them.
...this subsection continues...
/DIV
/DIV
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#edef-H1

HTML5 is perhaps even clearer on the sectioning nature of headings
since it also calls for the specific use of section tags to work with
headers:

The h1–h6 elements and the header element are headings.

The first element of heading content in an element of sectioning
content gives the header for that section. Subsequent headers of equal
or higher rank start new (implied) sections, headers of lower rank
start subsections that are part of the previous one.

Sectioning content elements are always considered subsections of their
nearest ancestor element of sectioning content, regardless of what
implied sections other headings may have created.

Certain elements are said to be sectioning roots, including blockquote
and td elements. These elements can have their own outlines, but the
sections and headers inside these elements do not contribute to the
outlines of their ancestors. 
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#headings0

Discussions of sections and articles and outlines seem to further
confirm that headers are for sections not sites. Site headers are
discussed under articles and outlines which include and seem to
superceed headers in 5.

In other words, it seems completely plausible to have an h1 for the
logo and an h1 for the page topic if both of those seem to the author
to constitute separate sections in 4.01 and obligatory in 5.


drew


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Re: [WSG] Making Video Accessible

2008-04-03 Thread Drew Trusz
On 4/3/08, Viable Design [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello. I recently found a video embedder plugin that works well with
 WordPress and validates perfectly with a strict doctype. But I realize
 validation does not equal accessibility, so what exactly needs to be done to
 make video accessible? Is it a matter of adding a subtitle track?


Captions synchronized to the actions and dialogue. That is, tell the
story in words as it happens including the dialogue, if any.

drew


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Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com

2006-03-03 Thread Drew Trusz
On 3/2/06, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Everyone,
A new site I recently developed the front-end for over the past few
 months, called Edentiti [1], has just officially launched and I wanted
 to get some feedback about the usability, accessibility and over
 functionality in whatever browsers you can get your hands on.  I've
 tested in various Windows and Mac browsers during development, but as is
 always the case, bugs tend to sneak in wherever they can and something
 may have been missed.


Leaving aside all of the technical issues, the site is innocuous
without being understated. But since that is what they want -- good
job.

drew
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Re: [WSG] Overflow and inheritance problems with a 2-column layout

2006-02-17 Thread Drew Trusz
On 2/16/06, John Latter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 http://evomech2.blogspot.com/2006/02/re-evomech-re-peer-review-and-genetic.html

 Its a 2 column layout and I think the relevant css code is:

 div#mainClm{float:right;width:66%;padding:30px 7% 10px
 3%;border-left:dotted 1px #E0AD12;}
 div#sideBar{margin:20px 0px 0px 1em;padding:0px;text-align:left;width:100%;}

 The first problem (which occurs on Firefox but not IE6) can be seen at
 the bottom of the above page where the sidebar text overflows into main
 content area. I have tried to fix it myself but with many other things
 to do I'm really stumbling about in the dark.

 The second problem isn't readily apparent because I've tidied the main
 column content up:

 Entries in the main column are auto-added from a yahoo group and contain
 tt tags which are then carried over into the sidebar and change the
 text font. A similar effect is caused by posters using a variety of
 composing programs. Is there any code I can add to the end of the main
 div to stop _anything_ being inherited by the sidebar div?

It isn't an overflow problem. The right element floats, the left
element flows around the float. That's what the rules provide for. IE
is wrong; making erroneous columns where none exist. Have a look at
http://www.positioniseverything.net for examples and discussions of
floats and IE's excentricities.

Second problem -- haven't looked closely. It sounds like you need to
reexamine the function that converts the tt tags and be sure it only
is applied to the division you want it applied to.

drew
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Re: [WSG] Target sued over non-accessible site

2006-02-14 Thread Drew Trusz
 Legally courts can and will regulate companies. It's been happening
 for years! We tell them the required minimum wage, the maximum working
 hours, we regulate overtime, we tell them to put wheelchair ramps in
 front of their doors, we zone their buildings, we make them get
 permits, we do health inspections, etc. etc. etc. We have all these
 laws in place to protect people. People are guaranteed freedom, not
 companies.

 No, the courts cannot force me to make my website accessible, but they
 can force Target Inc. Co. TM (R) to make their website accessible,
 just like they can force Target to do a lot of other things, because
 Target is not a person. It is a seperate entity. It is subject to the
 rule of the courts. And hopefully the courts are interpreting the laws
 correctly and deciding what the people want, in applying it to their
 decisions. I know it gets sketchy after that, but that is how things
 are supposed to work.

 We need to stop arguing with each other about the legal basis of this
 case and just wait and see whether or not the courts will apply the
 ADA to this website. It's that simple, and hopefully we can now get to
 what we should be discussing here, that is, the technical reasons why
 Target.com is not accessible and identifying other company websites
 that are also making the same mistakes. That's all.


Courts adjudicate, not regulate. Regulation is a legislative function
in the United State. Courts can and do discerne previously unkown
rights. But it is the legislative branch which sets limits on the
exercise of those rights with the court's subsequent agreement.

And since Santa Clara County vs Southern Pacific in 1886, corporations
have been granted personhood in the United States. In some senses
then, this is a question of balancing competing personal rights.

Drew
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Re: [WSG] Fieldset/legend semantics

2005-12-28 Thread Drew Trusz
On 12/28/05, Jonathan Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I have recently been re-evaluating my thinking on the subject of
 designing semantic forms and the use of fieldsets has raised a few
 questions for me. What I'd like to know is: at what point does it become
 semantically correct to include a fieldset? (Presentational effects
 aside) My first thought is that any time you have two or more related
 fields, a fieldset could be effectively used to group them together so
 that the browser knows what goes with what, therefore making it more
 accessible for future cases. If this assumption is true, does that mean
 a fieldset element should ALWAYS be used anytime two or more form fields
 exist in association? That seems slightly overkill, but if it's semantic
 benefits are as aforementioned, then the extra work would be merited and
 certainly not in vain.

 This leads into my next question: should a legend always be included
 inside a fieldset, even if it's not going to be displayed

While reading the specs is often problematic for answering questions,
in this case it seems fairly straightforward:

The FIELDSET element allows authors to group thematically related
controls and labels. Grouping controls makes it easier for users to
understand their purpose while simultaneously facilitating tabbing
navigation for visual user agents and speech navigation for
speech-oriented user agents. The proper use of this element makes
documents more accessible.[1]

As for legend:

The LEGEND element allows authors to assign a caption to a FIELDSET.
The legend improves accessibility when the FIELDSET is rendered
non-visually.[1]

The example shows legend within the appropriate fieldset (which makes
intuitive sense). So put it inside the fieldset it describes.

The language used in this section describes fieldset and legend as
options which improve usability and accessibility. Along with label;
fieldset and legend help to make the overall purpose of the form and
the themes of its sections clear(er).  That is to say, if you think it
will help make the form clear, do it; otherwise  you can skip it.

All leading me to the conclusion that it is probably better to do it
than not; while also avoiding making it into a fetish.


[1]http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html#edef-FIELDSET


drew
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Re: [WSG] Yet Another Float Problem

2005-12-27 Thread Drew Trusz
On 12/26/05, Paula Petrik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, the problem is solved--for the time being. It still does not work on Win98 with IE4, but I think that I have to draw the line. As Drew suggested, it was a rounding problem, but I did get a lot of practice writing if statement for the IE family. I do have question. Drew, when you say you will clear to get height, what will I be clearing? I have a 3-column page coming up and want to forestall any further angst.
 

Paula PetrikPaula PetrikProfessorDepartment of History  Art HistoryAssociate DirectorCenter for History  New Media
George Mason Universityhttp://www.archiva.net
What to clear. That's always the question with IE. If you are using a multiple float, the clear usually works best after the last float. If the floats are in a container that would be after the last float and before the container is closed. Sometimes an additional clear is necessary within the last float. And additional clears as always necessary in nested floats.
Looking at a copy of a 3 column template I did when learning css, there is a header, container with 3 columns, footer structure. The clear is between the container and footer. Be glad to send it to you off list if you like. 
In diagnosing these kinds of problems, it works best for me to give the main elements a visible border. It shows me where in fact things don't fit right, which if often different than where I think they shouldn't fit when it doesn't work right the first time. 
If you use a fair number of clears you may well get accused of divitis. Just weigh having to change nothing against having to rework all of the clever hacks for IE should IE7 contain even a small portion of the rumored changes in support for css and xhtml. 
drew


Re: [WSG] Yet Another Float Problem

2005-12-26 Thread Drew Trusz
On 12/26/05, Paula Petrik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm being driven nuts. Pulling out my hair. I cannot get this to workin IE and can't figure out where I'm going wrong. If I float:leftthe #maincontent, I lose my background image because #wrapper has noheight. IE does not want to honor something. The #mainecontent should
move up around the floated #nav. Do I need a :clear? Hoping someoneis working away somewhere.XHTML and CSS validates and have browsercammed.http://www.archiva.net/hist697ay06/
http://www.archiva.net/hist697ay06/hist697ay06_screen.css
It seems to be a width problem. I reduced the #maincontent to
480px and it fits on IE. You might be able to increase the size some,
the 480 was a first attempt. Given the mix of px and em for various
margins, paddings, etc there is likely a rounding difference which
makes one fit and the other not. This is done without the man in the
suite. image. 

I'm curious as to why if you want 2 columns you just don't make 2
columns and float both nav and maincontent. The layout doesn't seem to
call for the margin-left approach but the margin vs float choice is
often personal. 

drew



Re: [WSG] Yet Another Float Problem

2005-12-26 Thread Drew Trusz
On 12/26/05, Paula Petrik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm being driven nuts. Pulling out my hair. I cannot get this to workin IE and can't figure out where I'm going wrong. If I float:leftthe #maincontent, I lose my background image because #wrapper has noheight. IE does not want to honor something. The #mainecontent should
move up around the floated #nav. Do I need a :clear? Hoping someoneis working away somewhere.XHTML and CSS validates and have browsercammed.http://www.archiva.net/hist697ay06/
http://www.archiva.net/hist697ay06/hist697ay06_screen.css
Forgot to add that if you do want to float both you will need the clear to get height.

drew 



Re: [WSG] Float Left Problem

2005-12-25 Thread Drew Trusz
On 12/25/05, Jeff D. Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:








In IE 6, I have managed to get this page to lineup 
somewhat right in visual appearance from the graphic designers overall 
printout. But in Firefox, the left text column is not aligning in the same 
visual placement as in IE.

Also second issue...how to I add the end of column 
graphic that can be seen in IE at the bottom of the text column but appears 
under the main graphics in Firefox. Also in IE, the finalposition of 
this graphic is not correct, as it should but up against the bottom of the text 
column.

Here is the url to a temp page:

http://www.romdev.com/olp/index2.htm

CSS is here:

http://www.romdev.com/olp/css/main.css

Run the css through the validator. There are a lot of minor
points but the main one is that your value fro clear is
incorrect. The values are none, left, right, both. There is no all.
Also the script tag needs to be fixed up. use type not language.

Haven't run the page with the corrections. But visually it makes sense as the cause of the error. Try it and see

drew





Re: [WSG] Float Left Problem

2005-12-25 Thread Drew Trusz
On 12/25/05, Jeff D. Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







Thanks for the reply Drew. The html and css 
both now validate. Changing the clear to clear:both did not help 
though.

Jeff
On my FF the sidebar footer is now in the right place. 

The header image still has problems. 

drew



Re: [WSG] Float Left Problem

2005-12-25 Thread Drew Trusz
On 12/25/05, Jeff D. Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







Thanks for the reply Jorge.

I have posted a jpg of the eps file I have to work 
with from the designer. In Firefox the text column sits closer to the left 
margin of the page than in IE. IE renders the page as close to the jpg 
file as I can get.

I am trying to understand why Firefox does not push 
the text column to the right as it should. I am also trying to understand 
how to add the bottom graphic to the text column as well.

Here is the url to the jpg of the eps 
file:

http://www.romdev.com/olp/olp_home_01.jpg


On my system FF shows no difference in the right margin for
sidebar compared to IE. There are still problems with the header
and now with the left margin of sidebar.

To late for me to deal with this tonite.



[WSG] re: overflow

2005-12-21 Thread Drew Trusz

Barrie North wrote:

  
  
  
  
  
  
  Hi all,
  
  I have a fluid layout and
for the life of me can't get
the image to be cropped as the screen adjusts.
  
  Here is the link:
  
  http://www.compassdesigns.net/joomlashack/

  
  If you resize the window
the image will stay on top. I have
played with z-index, overflow:hidden. I can't for the life of me get
this
to work.
  
  Anyone fancy jumping in
and pointing out the obvious thing I
am missing J ?


  
You have a wrapper with a min-width of 760px so the container is never in an overflow situation.
drew


[WSG] Re: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org

2005-12-21 Thread Drew Trusz



  
  



Barrie North wrote:

  
  
  
  
  
  
  Hi all,
  
  I have a fluid layout and
for the life of me can't get
the image to be "cropped" as the screen adjusts.
  
  Here is the link:
  
  http://www.compassdesigns.net/joomlashack/

  
  If you resize the window
the image will stay on top. I have
played with z-index, overflow:hidden. I can't for the life of me get
this
to work.
  
  Anyone fancy jumping in
and pointing out the obvious thing I
am missing J ?

  
  Barrie North
You've set the wrapper at min-width of 760px. The containing box for the image won't be in overflow condition at lesser widths. drew 


Re: [WSG] Re: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org

2005-12-21 Thread Drew Trusz
On 12/21/05, Barrie North [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
















Hey Drew,



Well, I tried min-width 300px and then removed
the min-width completely and it still didn't work :/



Barrie









That's what I get for not trying the solution before profoundly pronouncing it. 

This one is better. If I remove the absolute positioning of the
#headerbanner the headerimg clips. I didn't take all the images
just the headerimg. There is still a scroll bar but the img clips.
Haven't played with min-max or other absolutes to see if that affects
the scroll.

drew
 


Re: [WSG] Re: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org

2005-12-21 Thread Drew Trusz
On 12/21/05, Barrie North [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
















Hey Drew,



Well, I tried min-width 300px and then removed
the min-width completely and it still didn't work :/



Barrie









  

  

Only way I was able to eliminate the scroll is to make the headerimg a
background image (as someone previously suggested). The image has a
width so when it is used in the foreground that width becomes the
minimum width the page can be reduced to. A page will only shrink
to the size of the smallest irreducible element -- the headerimg in
this case.

You can see how this works by taking out the wrapper width and then
seeing where the scroll starts. If your eyes and sense of proportion
are better than mine, you can see this even with the wrapper
width left in place.




[WSG] re:talking points for standards

2005-12-07 Thread Drew Trusz
Bert wrote:When it comes to search engines, can anyone prove that lean codeis better? Has anyone done research on this claim? Google is fullof tagsoup sites that are highly ranked.I searched for web design in Google (pages from Australia
only). The top 3 (non sponsored) sites used tables for layout,none of them validated and only one had a doctype. They all usedsome CSS but only in addition to the tagsoup.So where are the benefits?


=As a digest reader I don't respond much since most things are settled or overworked by the time I read them. This may fit the later category but even so every now and then it's good to ask why bother?. Bert's been at it long enough to know the answer but sometime it's good to hear it.
For standards the answer to why bother isn't really found in page size, bandwidth savings or even ease of reconfiguration. The answer is in the purpose of the semantic web. Berners-Lee, Hendler and Lassila were clear about their goal in their seminal 
The Semantic Web. The target is a decentralized, data driven web. That's the goal of the w3c: a common
framework that allows data to be shared
and reused across application, enterprise, and community
boundaries.[1] To make that vision work, data has to be accessible and understandable. Web standards are focused on making that possible. Page design is a part of those standards but is not the extent of those standards.
The reason we follow standards should be to create pages which offer data that can be searched by User Agents in a reliable way. That is, the content is presented in accordance with a declared set of rules which clearly define what elements are and what their usage means. Furthermore, standards means presentation can be safely ignored since it in no way affects the content. With known elements and no concern about presentational inference, data becomes the focus. Some of the data can be even be extracted from the semantics of the page: proper use of headers, lists as dialogue, etc. A good start but only a start.
What we need to remember is that standards go way beyond this. What we need to remember is that a fully semantic web revolves around the rdf framework;employing uri's, taking advantage of the sparql and owl for data manipulation, making use of daml+oil for establishing data equivalence.--- bringing the flexibility of the web to fruition:
RDF is a flexible and extensible way to represent information
about World Wide Web resources. It is used to represent, among
other things, personal information, social networks, metadata
about digital artifacts, as well as
provide a means of integration over disparate sources of
information. A standardized query language for RDF data with
multiple implementations offers developers and end users a way
to write and to consume the results of queries across this wide
range of information. Used with a common protocol, applications can access 
and combine information from across the Web. [2]This is a vision that moves well beyond the electronic. Uri's are conceived of as representing not just links but also places and people. The rdf framework of grahps provides a way to establish the links in a chain by which a person acquires and evaluates knowledge and resources in a,hopefully, evolving process.
The problem is that the data upon which such a web depends is in incompatible and likely mutually incomprehensible formats. Making that data interchangeable is what standards do. Various forms of xml derived technologies as OWL[3] and daml+oil[4] help to establish an equivalence of data; making it possible for machines and people to trust that the data they are receiving is understood as it was meant to be. So that zip is understood as intended by the original author be that meaning as zip code, nothing, or zipper type. The translation is accurate.
In the end, a user, including all of us, will shape their own experience with the web. Trust, the feeling that the data is accurate, will come with a combination of electronic signature verification and the slower process of building a set of uri's individuals find reliable. It's not an absolute standard of trust, it's a personal and relative standard as varied as the web. 
Will this matter to large commercial sites? Probably not; nor necessarily should it. Their version of the web is proscribed by their concern with brand name recognition and frankly sales. People maintaining such sites won't worry about truples and how daml classes are written. A web authoring tool which is wysiwyg, with nested tables and tag soup, will work fine for them unless and until it becomes a compelling business reason to do pages in another form. 
You can bet that if standards compliant pages lead to new and different search methodologies, commercial sites will follow along. Business didn't invent the web, it just changed it. Other groups can do the same thing. 
You can have the web