Re: [WSG] Dev. For Mobile Browsers

2008-09-12 Thread James Gollan
There is a good introductory book by cameron moll - not very techie  
but nice starting point

http://mobilewebbook.com/

And i have a few links
http://delicious.com/gollyg/mobile

On 13/09/2008, at 12:13 PM, James Jeffery wrote:

Anyone got any good resources on developing for mobile browsers?  
It's an area I have never really looked into, but am interested in.


Cheers.

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Re: [WSG] Please help! CSS/IE Link Color Problem

2007-08-03 Thread James Gollan
FWIW seems to work in IE7 - dont have IE6 setup at the moment.

On 8/4/07, Cole Kuryakin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hello All -

 After tearing my hair out for over 4 hours I come to you guys/gals for a
 fresh eye and perhaps a solution.

 I've got a simple class name (.active) attached to an a tag. This class
 is
 programmatically activated when a link is chosen and the page loads.

 When the chosen page loads, the chosen link turns deep red.

 The declaration for this is as follows:

 /*ACTIVE LINKS ONLY*/
 ul#navTopSimpleUL li a.active
 {
 color: #CC0033;
 cursor: default;
 text-decoration: none;
 }

 A similar declaration is in force for the side AND footer navigation.

 In FF it works as required/expected. But, even though the HTML and CSS
 validates, this small but important functionality doesn't work in IE 6.

 If you look at the testing site in FF (www.koisis.com/.problems/index.php)
 this works as required and expected.

 If you then view the same page in IE 6 however, the .active class doesn't
 work at all - I haven't begun to test in IE7 yet and I can't figure out a
 work-around for IE 6..

 If you'd like to view the css that controls the navigation rules, it's
 named
 c.project_navigation.css.

 Can someone(s) please take a look at this for me and tell me where I'm
 going
 wrong, or what alteration(s) I can make to trigger this class in IE?

 Great appreciation and thanks to all in advance!

 Cole






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Re: [WSG] Please help! CSS/IE Link Color Problem

2007-08-03 Thread James Gollan
you could try adding !IMPORTANT after the colour declaration just to see if
it is an inheritance issue

On 8/4/07, James Gollan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 FWIW seems to work in IE7 - dont have IE6 setup at the moment.

 On 8/4/07, Cole Kuryakin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Hello All -
 
  After tearing my hair out for over 4 hours I come to you guys/gals for a
  fresh eye and perhaps a solution.
 
  I've got a simple class name (.active) attached to an a tag. This
  class is
  programmatically activated when a link is chosen and the page loads.
 
  When the chosen page loads, the chosen link turns deep red.
 
  The declaration for this is as follows:
 
  /*ACTIVE LINKS ONLY*/
  ul#navTopSimpleUL li a.active
  {
  color: #CC0033;
  cursor: default;
  text-decoration: none;
  }
 
  A similar declaration is in force for the side AND footer navigation.
 
  In FF it works as required/expected. But, even though the HTML and CSS
  validates, this small but important functionality doesn't work in IE 6.
 
  If you look at the testing site in FF (www.koisis.com/.problems/index.php
  )
  this works as required and expected.
 
  If you then view the same page in IE 6 however, the .active class
  doesn't
  work at all - I haven't begun to test in IE7 yet and I can't figure out
  a
  work-around for IE 6..
 
  If you'd like to view the css that controls the navigation rules, it's
  named
  c.project_navigation.css.
 
  Can someone(s) please take a look at this for me and tell me where I'm
  going
  wrong, or what alteration(s) I can make to trigger this class in IE?
 
  Great appreciation and thanks to all in advance!
 
  Cole
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [WSG] Please help! CSS/IE Link Color Problem

2007-08-03 Thread James Gollan
the given rule is not using a pseudo selector (:) - it is a simple class
definition. This should be consistent across browsers.

On 8/4/07, Kepler Gelotte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 When the chosen page loads, the chosen link turns deep red.

 The declaration for this is as follows:

 /*ACTIVE LINKS ONLY*/
 ul#navTopSimpleUL li a.active
 {
 color: #CC0033;
 cursor: default;
 text-decoration: none;
 }


 Hi Cole,,

 You may want to also set focus on the element and declare a
 ul#navTopSimpleUL li a.focus definition mimicking the active definition.
 I
 believe I read somewhere that IE6 treats active and focus states the same,
 or confuses them.

 Regards,
 Kepler



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Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites

2007-07-11 Thread James Gollan

James Ellis wrote:

Hi

This is true, the C4 course in Web Technology or whatever it is called 
now at TAFE NSW aims to give everyone a grounding knowledge in the 
fundementals of well, web technology. This includes graphic design, 
database design, server side coding, project management and many others.
And this is, generally, desirable. Many people don't know what topics 
interest them. Others think they know, but then find another area more 
appealing. And even those that know exactly what they are interested in 
benefit from that area being placed in some kind of context. As you move 
up through the AQTF toward higher level qualifications you will find 
that the knowledge and skills become more specific and are treated in 
increasing depth. For those who feel that they have the necessary skills 
to skip a stage there are typically advanced standing provisions to 
demonstrate they have the pre-requisite skills. The Cert IV is mostly 
front end, with the diploma looking at server-side, although different 
campuses will choose a different mix of electives.
Some people find they are good at all, although that's rare, and they 
take this knowledge into being a good all rounder. Others find one 
topic that interests them. That's the value of a course like that, 
although they might not teach everything to top spec (at least they 
didn't in 2000).
I think that web design education, like web design, has moved forward 
since 2000. At least in the campuses I have worked at there was a focus 
on semantics, CSS layout, accessibility and the likes. It is easy to 
think back to the days when we were at college and say they didn't even 
mention CSS, but its like looking back at old table based sites that you 
created back in the day. shudder.


Having said that, it varies between campuses and institutions.



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Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits

2007-07-11 Thread James Gollan

It has been mentioned before, but I find Drupal has been great. It has
modules for most things, has a fabulous extensible content system where you
can define custom content types, a very powerful theming engine, and an
incredibly modular approach to core functionality.

When you learn how to use the system you can 'hook into' virtually all
aspect of the system to configure it to do just about anything without
adjusting the core code (and thus complicating your upgrade path).

I have used it to create www.organicexpo.com.au which has an extensive
backend order management system, but it is also being used on MTV sites and
the satirical news site www.theonion.com.

And it runs on php4 and 5.

and it can be configured to use external authentication, customised
caching such as memcache, and features a database agnostic abstraction
layer.

IBM, Yahoo (and Google i think) are using it for many internal sites.

On 7/12/07, Rahul Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


On 11-Jul-07, at 4:09 AM, Kevin Ross wrote:

 Now that I have a realization that I need to incorporate some sort
 of a CMS solution, can anyone lead me to resources that may help to
 teach me the ropes?  I am leaning towards PHP, as I am somewhat
 familiar with the language. Thanks.

Hi Kevin,

I have used Textpattern on a number of client sites, and have been
very happy with it so far. It is extensible using PHP (I believe),
and produces valid, accessible code when used 'out of the box'. It is
simple to install, use and maintain. Do take a look.

Best,
  - Rahul.



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Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits

2007-07-09 Thread James Gollan

Kevin Ross wrote:
I am wondering for advice on this situation and I am also wondering 
how others handle ongoing updates after the initial design has been 
implemented.


I am also wondering if a CMS system would, in any way, be a solution 
to a situation like this.
Probably more appropriate for the WSG CMS list, but short answer is yes, 
a CMS would definitely address this issue. Other options include Adobe 
Contribute.




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Re: [WSG] colour matching transparent png files

2007-04-10 Thread James Gollan

PNG has built in colour correction that creates problems when trying to
match against a hexcode in the browser.
If you really need png you can export a small backgroound tile for the area
that it needs to blend into.

http://hsivonen.iki.fi/png-gamma/

On 4/11/07, Andrew Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Learned friends - hope you can help me.

I am having trouble matching transparent png files to html background
colours. The dodgy test page here: http://www.woowoowoo.com/pngtest/
illustrates the effect.

It's pretty self explanatory, but I want to run a div which matches
the page background and provides a 'band' effect over a background
image for me to run some type through.

I specify the page background to #003366
In photoshop I specify the starting blue of the vignette to #003366
I also create a 20px square of #003366, set the opacity to 50% and
save out a png24 with transparency

Trouble starts in the browser though - the 'transparent' bands are
almost always visible - if not in one browser then another. Now I have
a fair hunch that this is to do with colour profiles, but my trial and
error testing so far has only resulted in confusion and frustration.

I get it almost right in Firefox and IE7 goes crazy or pretty good in
both and Opera and Safari fall off. It's cross browser incompatibility
gone mad! Is it just my browsers? (I doubt it!)

Has anyone got any experience or resources that they can ease my troubles
with?

--
Andrew Harris
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.woowoowoo.com


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Re: [WSG] Validating HTML output for XSLT

2007-03-30 Thread James Gollan

the web developer toolbar gives you access to view generated source - this
will reveal the result of the transformation

On 3/30/07, Katrina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Gday,

If we create HTML/XHTML output through XSLT, is there anyway we can
check the quality of that output?

My check local HTML in the Firefox Web Developer Toolbar doesn't work :(

It looks alright in the DOM Inspector. Is that the best available
currently?

Kat



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Re: [WSG] Need help with CSS breadcrumbs and navigation

2007-03-30 Thread James Gollan

You have a padding and margin declaration on the hover state for the
breadcrumbs.
elastic.css line 69. Remove this, or set it on #breadcrumb a

On 3/30/07, Chris Rahe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Thanks so much Tee, and everyone else who offered suggestions. Some of the
flaws that turned up were my misguided efforts to compensate for the weird
behavior.

The new breadcrumbs look much better, but I'm noticing an odd behavior in
IE7. When I mouse over the breadcrumbs the footer suddenly shifts up and
over the body text. Then shifts back down when I mouse over the navigation
menu.

What's up with that?

Also Tee, I noticed the problem in Safari too. I put that menu shift in
there because IE was shifting them too far to the right and my fix helped
in
IE and also Firefox on Windows and Mac, but now Safari is annoying me.

At this point, I decided I can live with it, but if you have an easy
solution I'd certainly be happy to hear it.

Thanks again for all the help.

Chris Rahe
Executive Director of Marketing and Development
1020 High Road - P. O. Box 8
Bremen, IN 46506
Telephone 574.546.8011
Facsimile 574.546.4312
Email - [EMAIL PROTECTED]




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tee G. Peng
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 5:13 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Need help with CSS breadcrumbs and navigation


On Mar 30, 2007, at 12:53 AM, Stuart Foulstone wrote:

 Hi,

 I would suggest you use a line-height greater than 2pt in #breadcrumb.

 Stuart

Hi Chris,

Stuart's suggestion is good, however I do think there are more
underlying problem in your code that needs to fix.

To begin with, you may want to add this rule in your CSS.
* {margin:0; padding:0}

Because headings and other html tags have their default top/bottom
margins and paddings, by using an universal declaration, you are
removing the default margins/paddings. You then adding your desired
paddings/margins in the id and classes selectors directly.

Be aware that the universal declaration is a double-edged sword,
somewhere down the road when you are more comfortable doing CSS and
code for more complex CSS layout, you may find it not so good but
getting  into your way all the time, but for now... I think it's good
for your layout.

Your breadcrumb declaration is a bit heavy and some are unnecessary:
#breadcrumb {
font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 10pt;
color: #FF;
background-color: #00;
width: 100%;
height: auto;
position: relative;
list-style: none;
float: left;
line-height: 2pt;
}
#breadcrumb ul {
list-style-type: none;
}
#breadcrumb li {
float: left;
margin-right: 1em;
padding-bottom: 10px;
}


I will slim it down to this:

#breadcrumb {
font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 10pt;
color: #FF;
background-color: #00;
width: 100%;
}


You don't need the last 5 declarations in the #breadcrumb. Only
declare 'list-style' in the 'ul' and 'ol', as for float, there is no
point for it when you have only one column of content to go in a
block. 'position' here will require 10 pages of A4 paper for me to
explain, even if I bother to do so, you will end up more confusing,
so I will skip it :) Declare line-height in the 'li' instead.


#breadcrumb ul {
list-style-type: none;
margin:0; padding:0 /* if you don't want universal declaration,
then

you must zero out paddings and margins here */

}
#breadcrumb li {
display: inline; /* here you can choose to use display: inline or
float: left - personally I favor inline because the breadcrumb is
just a run-in text to me */
padding:  0 20px; /* note that when display:inline is used, the
top

and bottom padding won't work because now your breadcrumb is inline
element. Our list dad Russ wrote an excellent article about it:
http://maxdesign.com.au/presentation/inline */
line-height: 30px /* 30px pleases my eyes, but it's fine with me if
you want something higher or lower */
}

Also, the position of your drop-down navigation behaves erracticlly:
in Safari. It shifted to the left, about 80px nears the menu before
it, for example, I hover on 'Hospital Services, the zero position of
the X axis of drop-down starst somewhere between Home and Emergency;
in Firefox, it starts from the 'p' word in 'HosPital'.


Another thing, you may like to pick up CSS shorthand to slim down
your style sheet, the obvious example is you can use this in the
#breadcrumb

#breadcrumb {
font: 10pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
color: #FF;
background-color: #00;
width: 100%;
}

Hope this helps a bit

tee



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Re: [WSG] vertically aligning objects of unknown height

2007-03-29 Thread James Gollan

if they both shared a container and the input was positioned absolutely to
top:50% from that container would that work?

On 3/29/07, Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hi guys,

Is there any way to vertically align objects in CSS next to each other if
the height of them is not set?

This is what I am trying to achieve:

http://www.prototype.net.au/boxes.html

I want to create a box with an undefined amount of text inside of it and
next to the box I want a checkbox. But the checkbox should be vertically
centered.

I tried putting them both into a container that has got display set to
table-cell and then turn on vertical-align:middle, but this only works if
I
know the height of the container. And even then will the checkbox and the
text box align in the middle of the container, but still be aligned next
to
each other.

I wonder if anybody found a solution for this problem?

Cheers,

Andreas






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Re: [WSG] vertically aligning objects of unknown height

2007-03-29 Thread James Gollan

.container {
display:block;
position:relative;
}
.checkbox {
position:absolute;
top:45%;
}
.box {
background-color:#00CCFF;
width:620px;
margin-left:21px;
}

something like this


On 3/29/07, Designer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] wrote:
 Hi guys,

 Is there any way to vertically align objects in CSS next to each other
if
 the height of them is not set?

 This is what I am trying to achieve:

 http://www.prototype.net.au/boxes.html

 I want to create a box with an undefined amount of text inside of it and
 next to the box I want a checkbox. But the checkbox should be vertically
 centered.

 I tried putting them both into a container that has got display set to
 table-cell and then turn on vertical-align:middle, but this only works
if I
 know the height of the container. And even then will the checkbox and
the
 text box align in the middle of the container, but still be aligned next
to
 each other.

 I wonder if anybody found a solution for this problem?

 Cheers,

 Andreas


With forms, many folk resort to being 'naughty' and use:

table class=container
   tr
 td class=checkbox
input type=checkbox
 /td
 td class=box
   Lorem ipsum dolor sit ametbr
   Lorem ipsum dolor sit ametbr
   Lorem ipsum dolor sit ametbr
   Lorem ipsum dolor sit ametbr
   Lorem ipsum dolor sit ametbr
 /td
   /tr
   tr
 td class=checkbox
input type=checkbox
 /td
 td class=box
  Lorem ipsum dolor sit ametbr
   Lorem ipsum dolor sit ametbr
   Lorem ipsum dolor sit ametbr
   Lorem ipsum dolor sit ametbr
   Lorem ipsum dolor sit ametbr
 /td
   /tr
/table

It's cross browser, safe, and sturdy . . . :-)

--
Bob

www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk



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Re: [WSG] Web design education

2006-02-16 Thread James Gollan

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I've been following this discussion with great interest.

I've taught HTML, CSS and JavaScript at a TAFE, but not as part of a 
coding course, as part of a graphic design course. That's an 
interesting environment in which to think about standards -- the 
students were totally focused on design and graphics, and were really 
learning three applications: Photoshop, FireWorks and DreamWeaver, 
rather than what web pages were all about.
I actually think that is a sign of the educational institutions being 
slow to catch up in their approach to web design. From what I can tell 
it currently seems to be considered either:


   * an add-on to a graphic design course, in the form of 'and you can
 turn your print/marketing campaign into a web site/online
 marketing campaign'.
   * as a part of programming and applicatoin development.

Again, anecdotally, either scenario seems to prioritise one aspect of 
the process whilst downplaying or ignoring the importance of the other. 
It would seem that eventually a crossover course is needed, perhaps in 
the form of some type of 'design or development major' . Design students 
interested in the web should receive the relevant knowledge to work in 
that environment right from the beginning. Equally developers should we 
well versed in aspects of usability and interface design, particularly 
when learning their client side technologies.


At the moment in Ultimo we have the balance of 9 hours/week multimedia 
and design, 9 hours per week scripting, HTML, CSS and XML, and 1 1/2 
hours usability and accessibility. It's a fairly  good balance but there 
is so much to get through in 6 months. Once they leave the Cert IV they 
don't cover any aspects of client side web design again - the next year 
is all .NET development (no PHP unfortunately ;(  )


I have sat in course implementation workshops where interface design has 
been dismissed as drawing pretty pictures, and then HTML and CSS has 
been downplayed to learning a few tags - 6 or 8 hours tops (by the 
same person, no less!)


I am not suggesting that we produce a jack of all trades, but I feel 
the education must start out in a much more generalised way.


On a positive note, I have noticed a steady stream of designers 
enrolling in the course to learn how to work for web. Most come in with 
some Dreamweaver experience and the notion that they will learn advanced 
Dreamweaver. For some of them 12 weeks of css and html in notepad is too 
much, but most of them embrace the idea of learning theories of 
usability, accessibility and end up performing really well.


It would be great, however, if there was a course that started taking 
responsibility for the different aspect of web design in a far more 
holistic way right from the begiinning.

I agree with points others have made:

1) IT staff have an amazing amount of control over what is allowed -- 
to the detriment of the students' learning what happens in the real 
world. Not one of my students had ever FTPd a file to a server so, for 
instance, all their paths had to be relative and they could make 
mistakes with case-sensitivity with impunity.


2) Syllabuses are either out of date, or more likely, so general as to 
be meaningless -- students on my JavaScript course had to learn a 
scripting language. Students on my HTML course had to learn a markup 
language. I could have taught them Visual Basic and SGML and been 
entirely within the guidelines.


3) There's no time -- I taught a class of fifteen graphic designers 
the very basics of HTML in a class lasting in total, five hours or so. 
When they said how do I get two columns in my page? I taught them to 
do a table. Mea Culpa. I did, of course, explain about table versus 
div positioning, font tags versus CSS, but I didn't attempt to teach 
them two completely different languages in that very short time. If 
they achieved a valid page with an h1, a couple of ps and a 
working link, I was happy. But I can't say I advanced the cause of 
standards much...


   Have You Validated Your Code?
John Horner(+612 / 02) 8333 3594
Developer, ABC Kids Onlinehttp://www.abc.net.au/

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Re: [WSG] TARGET in 4.01 Strict

2006-02-15 Thread James Gollan

Lachlan Hunt wrote:

Ian Anderson wrote:

Lachlan Hunt wrote:


I think generalisations like users hate popup windows are perhaps a 
little unhelpful.


But the statement is 100% accurate.  I, as a user, hate popups.  I 
know of many others that hate popups too.  I did not say all users, 
just users.  Regardless of how many users that is, are you really 
willing to annoy them?  Is it not safer to avoid using popup windows, 
considering that people that don't mind them won't be at all upset 
when they don't see them; but those that hate them, will be if they do?
It may be technically 100% accurate, but in that case so is the 
statement users hate it when a new site opens in the current window and 
takes them away from the site they were viewing. It only takes 2 users 
to make this true. And these 2 users may also be annoyed :)


I am not a pop-up advocate, I think it's best to clearly identify 
external links but open them in the current window. I do, however, 
wonder about the number of users that actually know that they can 
override the browser and open a link in a new window. This is often put 
up in support of the no pop-up argument, but I find it hard to imagine 
that the average user (whatever that may be) knows about this feature. 
Any stats or studies you know of?


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Re: [WSG] Web design education

2006-02-13 Thread James Gollan

Chris Taylor wrote:

And, a larger question for us all: what are we as web standards and
accessibility evangelists to do about the continued ingorance and apathy
towards this vital subject, especially in academia? Let's hope that the
recent Target website court case in the US highlights the cause.

  
I feel it is worth pointing out that not all educational institutions 
are still teaching table based design. As an educator I feel I am in a 
great position to make a difference at a 'grass roots' level. Students 
studying web design at our college (Ultimo TAFE) are exposed to about as 
much evangelism as they can take! There is a brief mention of tables for 
design, but as a primer for what they may find themselves working with 
in industry. Every site that they design should validate to a strict 
doctype (they choose between HTML and XHMTL after being presented with 
the arguments for and against) and use CSS for all aspects of layout. 
They spend an hour and a half per week studying usability and 
accessibility, they have access to multiple browsers, operating systems, 
and even JAWS (until recently :( ). First lesson they are directed to 
join this list!
Past teachers have been such luminaries as Lisa Herrod and Roger Hudson, 
and, at the end of semester when they are dizzy from this barrage of 
evangalism, they get a good talking to from people such as Russ Weakley, 
Lindsay Evans, Peter Ottery, Lisa Herrod and Roger Hudson (not all on 
the same bill, unfortunately).
I know of other TAFE's (particularly Blue Mountains) that have a similar 
approach toward standards.
Unfortunately it often comes down to the teachers at the educational 
institution to promote this viewpoint, as syllabus documents are 
normally vague and hopelessly out of date. We are currently working of a 
training package that was first developed around 1997 (may have been 
1999, but hell, it's old). It mentions tables for layout etc.
I am sure that other institutions would be taking a similar approach to 
web design as us If not, hopefully the word will get out and the course 
will either drop off or modify its content. We do have mailing lists for 
educators in TAFE to try to disseminate the knowledge and facilitate 
discussion.
I agree that there can be an apathy in educational institutions - often 
as a result of the institutional structure - but it is not necessarily 
the case.

Just wanted to point that out ;)
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Re: [WSG] Web design education

2006-02-13 Thread James Gollan

Christian Montoya wrote:

On 2/13/06, James Gollan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

Chris Taylor wrote:


And, a larger question for us all: what are we as web standards and
accessibility evangelists to do about the continued ingorance and apathy
towards this vital subject, especially in academia? Let's hope that the
recent Target website court case in the US highlights the cause.

  

I feel it is worth pointing out that not all educational institutions
are still teaching table based design.



Yes, we know. I've told the list before that the classes I take at
Cornell teach standards based design with CSS, and it's exciting to
know that all my peers are standardistas like me. But it is very easy
for professors to go against change and keep teaching the same
methods... and if the sites they use are Google-Amazon-Ebay, they
might not even notice that anything has changed. 
Absolutely agree that the institution can provide a fairly protected 
environment for those who want to use it that way - the inertia 
generated by tenure and impending retirement is often insurmountable! 
Encouraging student feedback seems to be one of the only ways of change 
in this situation.

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Re: [WSG] Web design education

2006-02-13 Thread James Gollan

Ric Raftis wrote:

James Gollan wrote:

I feel it is worth pointing out that not all educational institutions 
are still teaching table based design. As an educator I feel I am in 
a great position to make a difference at a 'grass roots' level. 
Students studying web design at our college (Ultimo TAFE) are exposed 
to about as much evangelism as they can take! 
..


It was interesting reading your post James because it seems that TAFEs 
across the country may vary widely despite courses supposedly being 
drawn from a national based syllabus and providing national 
accreditation.


As I mentioned - we work of syllabus documents based on industry 
developed training packages that are often close to 10 years old. In IT 
that is an absurd situation. If the individual is working in isolation 
based on these documents it would be possible (and 'valid' from an 
assessment point of view) to deliver frames and table-based layout. We 
typically stretch or reinterpret the outcomes to make them relevant to 
current industry practice, but for the aforementioned reasons there is 
no guarantee that each TAFE will deliver the same content - even if you 
do identical modules.


TAFE is working reasonably hard on the concept of assessment validation 
- the goal being that every student will be trained to to the same level 
and assessed to this level regardless of college location. This has been 
difficult to achieve without using centralised assessments - an 
expensive and cumbersome approach with many problems of its own, 
including a real lack of flexibility.


I am sorry to hear that your experience of TAFE was less that optimal, 
but it is great to hear that they were willing to listen, and that you 
achieved what you wanted through the course. In many ways this is part 
of the education process, with your tutor taking on the role of a 
facilitator for your learning rather than the more classical 
lecturer/teacher role.

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Re: Recall: [WSG] Web design education

2006-02-13 Thread James Gollan

Mark Harris wrote:

Terrence Wood wrote:

Herrod, Lisa wrote:
Herrod, Lisa would like to recall the message, [WSG] Web design 
education.
What does that mean and where does it come from? Someone else sent me 
one of those recently.



Generally, it means someone is using Outlook on an MS-Exchange server 
as their mail set up. Exchange allows you to recall messages on your 
local server if the recipient hasn't opened it yet. It doesn't work 
outside your local environment though.
Of course it has a secondary effect of causing great interest in the 
offending email, subjecting it to a level of scrutiny that it would 
otherwise not enjoy!

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Re: [WSG] positive-discrimination === not positive and IMG properties

2005-12-15 Thread James Gollan
This is interesting, but a rather pragamitc approach? Are we changing 
our coding practice to suit the technological limitations of current 
user agents. Is some of the power of a standards based approach the idea 
that we do what is considered best practise given the current standards? 
I use titles where possible because the spec allows for them and I can 
see them adding value to an image (a link less so?) for certain user 
groups. If jaws chooses to lock this information away in a preference, 
then this is unfortunate, but when the next screen reader that does 
honour this form of content comes along perhaps its market share will 
grow accordingly.


I am not necessarily arguing that the spec is right - to a large extent 
I agree that content belongs in the document where it can be seen/read, 
but how do we link them meaningfully?


Stephen mentioned the label element which at the moment AFAIK is only 
linked to a form control. Other elements such as caption and legend 
exist to perform a similar role. Perhaps a more generic role for the 
label element would be good, adding a rel attribute to describe the 
relationship the label has to the associated element?



Kim Kruse wrote:


Hi Christian,


From: http://www.sf.id.au/WE05/indexa.html

   * Users that rely upon the keyboard to access web content cannot
access the TITLE text.
   * Some users of screen magnifiers will not be able to read the 
TITLE text.

   * Most users of screen reader software will not be aware of the
TITLE text, some will not be not able to read the TITLE text even if
they know it is there.

I used to have this misconception about title attributes too, that I
could assume every browser displayed them the same and screen readers
would read them. That's not the case. Now I hardly use title
attributes, and instead I put the content into the document where it
belongs.
 


Excellent. Thanks for the explanation :)
Kim


--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com
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Re: [WSG] Firefox :hover font-weight: bold

2005-11-18 Thread James Gollan
its not to do with a bold font taking up more space and shifting other 
elements?


Stuart Sherwood wrote:

Does anyone have any experience with a bug in Firefox when using 
a:hover {font-weight:bold;}?


When the cursor moves over the link, other elements on the page shift 
or even flicker over other elements. Basically, the page is in chaos 
on :hover.


Fixes, suggestions, guesses appreciated!

Regards,
Stuart
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Re: [WSG] injecting an extra hook with javascript

2005-11-02 Thread James Gollan
You mentioned that you wanted to be able to see it when you view the 
source - is that important? Because you wont *see* the span element but 
the browser will. (I imagine you are doing this for an image replacement 
technique in which case not seeing it wouldn't be a big issue). Remember 
you need to call the function, for example


body onload=insertSpan()

Dustin Diaz wrote:


function insertSpan() {
 if ( !document.getElementById || !document.createElement ) {
   return;
 }
 var util = document.getElementById('utilities');
 var links = util.getElementsByTagName('a');
 for ( i=0;ilinks.length;i++ ) {
   var span = document.createElement('span');
   links[i].appendChild(span);
 }
}


Dustin


On 11/1/05, Peter Ottery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 


just say i have markup like this:

--
div id =utility
ul
lia href=List Item/a/li
lia href=List Item/a/li
lia href=List Item/a/li
/ul
/div
-

and for one reason or another I *dont* have access to the html markup.
Then an intricate design comes along that requires an extra hook (a span
tag) to be inserted inside each a href/a tag.
is it possible to use javascript (1) to insert a span tag inside each a
href on the fly so its not in the markup - but would be there if you were
able to view the rendered source? you know what i mean - dynamically
changing the dom... or something

can you tell i know nothing about javascript? :)

any help appreciated.

cheers, pete

(1) - of course, without javascript list items would still be accessible -
they just wouldnt have the nice design inticacies



   


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Re: [WSG] IE BG Image Bug

2005-10-11 Thread James Gollan
sounds a bit like the peekaboo bug. You might try the holly hack on the 
problem element:


/* Hides from IE-mac \*/
* html #myBackgroundContainer
 {height: 1%;}
/* End hide from IE-mac */

Stuart Sherwood wrote:

One of my sites is triggering a bug in IE where a background image 
loads and displays perfectly but dissapears after it has scrolled of 
the page. If you scroll all the way to the bottom and then return to 
the top of the page, the bg image is no longer there.


Any idea what this bug is?

Regards,
Stuart
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Re: [WSG] CSS class and id naming conventions

2005-09-29 Thread James Gollan
Whilst it won't affect accessibility or usability for the end user 
(afaik) the class and id names should have semantic meaning indicating 
there logical function - rather than id=rightColumn you might use 
id=localNavColumn if the function of the column was to contain local 
nav. This means if the column changes to the left hand side there is 
still a logic to the naming. It also helps clarify the division of the 
page in your own mind.
There were some problems in earlier browsers with the underscore in 
class names and ids so I tend to camelCase.
As for the directory links, I think it might be more to do with the way 
the CMS is configured to produce clean URLs rather than any accessiblity 
issue. This increases the likliehood of Google indexing all of your 
pages (as opposed to get strings in the urls such as 
www.example.com?q=22). These are normally handled via server side 
rewrites of the url string.

HTH
James

James Oppenheim wrote:


Hi all,

Does anyone know of a set of naming conventions for css classes and 
ids? Should they have semantic meaning? I.E. “address” rather than 
“bottom”.


How should you go about naming the “right column” div.

div id=”right-col”/div
div id=”right_col”/div
div id=”right-column”/div
div id=”right_column”/div
div id=”rightcol”/div
div id=”rightcolumn”/div
div id=”right”/div

What about for file names.

naming_conventions.html
naming-conventions.html
namingconventions.html
namingConventions.html
conventions.html

I tend to use underscore for class and id, try very much to stay away 
from two word file names.


Also, I have noticed that many people use directories and the index of 
each rather than file names. I.E. 
http://www.companyname.com.au/stuff/conventions


Is this for accessibility?

Sorry about the question of three parts, but what do guys you think?


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Re: [WSG] Clearleft.com

2005-09-20 Thread James Gollan
Site looks great. Slightly OT but the user survey is using a TIFF image 
that is not showing up in Word (Office 2003 WinXP Pro) - says something 
about needing Quicktime installed! I'm sure you could make it work without!


James

Andy Budd wrote:


Hi folks,

We've just launched our new company website, and would love your  
feedback.


http://www.clearleft.com/


Yours

Andy Budd

http://www.andybudd.com/
01273 241355
07880 636677

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[WSG] Problems with print style and general site check

2005-09-07 Thread James Gollan

Hi,
I am having a problem getting a print stylesheet to work in Firefox 1.04 
Win. It  works in opera and IE, but in Fireforx the home page doesn't 
show up the images as expected. Actually, I have found the print preview 
in most recent versions of Firefox to cause crashes regularly - anyone 
else have this issue?


The site address is
www.abbychambers.com
and the style sheet is:
www.abbychambers.com/themes/greenstripe/print.css
Also, if you are looking at the site, any general issues would be good 
to know about. (i know, i know - it is an inefficient use of space on 
the home page! And the images are quite large file sizes. There are a 
few that need reoptimising, but generally the image quality was more 
important than file size)


Cheers
James
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Re: [WSG] Problems with print style and general site check

2005-09-07 Thread James Gollan

Hi David,
thanks for the feedback. I have to agree that the text, particularly on 
the home page, lacks contrast. I will look to make it a little darker. 
As for the emphasis being on the designer rather than the painter, I 
don't feel this was the case. The painter was very involved during the 
design process and, working in the field of visual communication, very 
particular about the type of site she wanted. I actually started out 
designing a far more standard layout that was rejected.
If you mean that the site fails to communicate and that there are other 
issues involved I would be really interested to know what they are so I 
can address them.

Thanks again for taking the time (no ideas on the print style?)
Cheers
James



FWIW: The emphasis seems to be on the designer rather than the painter 
for whom the site has been designed? I find the text far too light and 
unreadable.

Best,
David Laakso



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Re: [WSG] Accessibility, the possibilities

2005-08-25 Thread James Gollan
Just out of interest Stuart, do you feel that there is a contrast issue 
in your article heading text? On my screens the bg grey is quite dark.


Cheers
James

Stuart Sherwood wrote:


Thanks John,
It took a while but the answer I was looking for came along. Thank 
you! Your web site is very helpful.


I'm wondering how accurate or relevant some of the checks are on 
something like http://webxact.watchfire.com/
I tested my site and there seems to be many warnings that I can 
ignore. Try checking my site if you like. www.re-entity.com
I'm interested if you agree that some warnings can be ignored. I 
gather this is what you are talking about when you mention manual 
checks.


I know there are some things that should be changed on my site. I'm 
currently working on a re-design!


Are any of the validation tools: Bobby, Cynthiasays, Watchfire...more 
respected then the others?


Regards,
Stuart.


 


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RE: [WSG] FW: Site review

2005-02-22 Thread James Gollan
Thanks for all the feedback. I will get to work removing the pop-up
windows - moving the content into the main page template makes sense and
the accessibility advantages make it the obvious choice (easier than
going back to HTML strict too!).

I do care about mac users (being a part-time mac user myself). I was
aware of an issue in ie5 but not the one in firefox. I'll look into it.

The color scheme was an attempt to get away from the traditional view of
organics - to be a little bolder than the harmonious green palette you
may expect. But I know it can look strong!

Once again thankyou everyone for taking the time to look at it - it is
very valuable feedback.

Cheers
James

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter Firminger
Sent: Tuesday, 22 February 2005 11:45 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] FW: Site review

Hi James,

As the page http://www.organicexpo.com.au/exhibitors/index.php validates
as
XHTML 1.0 Strict, this may not mean anything but I have had errors or
warnings from validators about white space in html comments in the past.

!--comment-- wasn't acceptable as there needed to be a space either
inside
the delimiters (--) as in
!-- comment --. Seems this has been changed in the specs, or at least
the
validators. I would still suggest doing it that way anyway. This also
means
that ColdFusion comments !--- comment --- should not really be used on
pages that are not parsed by ColdFusion (removing them from the source).

The links without hrefs in the footer are inaccessible.

a onclick=javascript:newWindow('../articles/terms.php')terms and
conditions/a

Without JavaScript (many smartphones etc. simply don't have it), this
won't
work and they can't read your terms. A potential legal issue. The code
we
use (in HTML and only when we really need to) is:

a href=page.htm target=targetname onClick=window.open('',
'targetname','toolbar=0,location=0,directories=0,status=0,menubar=0,scro
llba
rs=auto,resizable=0,width10,height00') title=Link text (opens in a new
window)Link text/a

This is very stable code that works everywhere.

So, either don't use XHTML if you want accessible links to popup windows
(due to the lack of the target attribute) or don't use popup windows at
all,
loading the terms and conditions and privacy policy in the full window.
The
latter is obviously preferable as people using screen readers without
the
aid of vision may not know the new window has opened and get completely
lost
on a page with no navigation aids.

Just my thoughts...

P


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[WSG] FW: Site review

2005-02-21 Thread James Gollan








Would anyone have the time to look over the following site?

Any feedback much appreciated.



www.organicexpo.com.au



Thanks

James








RE: [WSG] Check website

2005-02-20 Thread James Gollan
Nice and clean looking site. A couple of issues I have noticed:
You may have designed on a high resolution, but at 800x600 (still a
common res) the logo disappears behind the content.
I think that the white line around the top nav looks a little out of
place.  
Cheers
James
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Gizax Studios
Sent: Monday, 21 February 2005 5:19 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Check website

Hi all,

Check this website for a marketing company.
Some section are coming soon. 

http://www.arcapplied.org/tempodaniele/index.php

regards

Daniel
http://www.gizax.it
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[WSG] IE5 mac background and float problem (and site check if you have time!)

2005-02-18 Thread James Gollan








Hi Guys, 



I am having a little problem with at the following site:



www.organicexpo.com.au/visitors/index.php



Relevant style sheet:

www.organicexpo.com.au/assets/layout.css





IE mac doesnt show the
background color on the main content div. The layout is a fairly simple 3
column layout using floated divs and left and right margins
on the main element. There is a clearer div on the main element but IE5 doesnt
seem to respect it, collapsing the background completely.



This error is repeated on other pages within the site that
are using a similar 2 column layout. If anyone has any ideas (I have been
reading about some IE5 mac float issues, but most
seem to suggest a hidden style sheet fix  would prefer to avoid that (Ive
already had to hack the nav style sheet.



And if you have time to look over the site for any other
problems that would be good (holds breath).

There is a page that is not validating (registration form) due
to some php inserted hidden fields, but the rest
should be ok validation-wise 



Any help much appreciated.



James








[WSG] IE5 mac background and float problem (and site check if you have time!)

2005-02-18 Thread James Gollan








Hi Guys, 



I am having a little problem with at the following site:



www.organicexpo.com.au/visitors/index.php



Relevant style sheet:

www.organicexpo.com.au/assets/layout.css





IE mac doesnt show the
background color on the main content div. The layout is a fairly simple 3
column layout using floated divs and left and right margins
on the main element. There is a clearer div on the main element but IE5 doesnt
seem to respect it, collapsing the background completely.



This error is repeated on other pages within the site that
are using a similar 2 column layout. If anyone has any ideas (I have been
reading about some IE5 mac float issues, but most
seem to suggest a hidden style sheet fix  would prefer to avoid that (Ive
already had to hack the nav style sheet.



And if you have time to look over the site for any other
problems that would be good (holds breath).

There is a page that is not validating (registration form) due
to some php inserted hidden fields, but the rest
should be ok validation-wise 



Any help much appreciated.



James








[WSG] SMH launch

2004-04-28 Thread James Gollan








Hey  why has the SMH
site gone haywire in IE6?



Only kidding peter 
looks great. That was the big one!



Well done again



James








RE: [WSG] A CSS Question

2004-04-21 Thread James Gollan
If you are trying to avoid the situation of a separate CSS background
property for each image you could create a single image with all of your
rollover states. You would then use the background position property to
shift this larger image into the correct position. 

The advantage of this method is that you would only need one image in
your CMS and one rule in your CSS applying to the hover state for your
anchor element. The full details on this technique are at
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/sprites/

Cheers,

James

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of theGrafixGuy
Sent: Wednesday, 21 April 2004 7:53 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] A CSS Question

Yeah, that was what I was afraid of. I am looking at in the wrong way - 

Okay, is there a method of perhaps adding an effect to the image that
could
be turned on or off - like for example a border effect where top and
left
are one color and bottom and right another color and on a mouse over
they
reverse? Follow me on this?

Essentially, we are trying to add some sort of visual cue to a static
image
that is embedded in the tables based template system :-/

Brian

-Original Message-
From: Andrew Krespanis
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 2:04 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] A CSS Question


gt;I am thinking changing that to: lt;img
src=quot;images/foo.gifquot; 
class=quot;ro1quot;gt;

I find it hard to see how you plan to overide the src attribute using
CSS...
Just about any other element would probably be workable, but I can't see
ow 
this could be done using img and CSS only.
Andrew.

_
SEEK: Now with over 50,000 dream jobs! Click here:  
http://ninemsn.seek.com.au?hotmail

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RE: [WSG] A CSS Question

2004-04-21 Thread James Gollan
Having read my post I should point out that I mean a single image for
each button/rollover - not one huge image for everything on your page!
That would just be silly.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of James Gollan
Sent: Thursday, 22 April 2004 9:40 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] A CSS Question

If you are trying to avoid the situation of a separate CSS background
property for each image you could create a single image with all of your
rollover states. You would then use the background position property to
shift this larger image into the correct position. 

The advantage of this method is that you would only need one image in
your CMS and one rule in your CSS applying to the hover state for your
anchor element. The full details on this technique are at
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/sprites/

Cheers,

James

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of theGrafixGuy
Sent: Wednesday, 21 April 2004 7:53 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] A CSS Question

Yeah, that was what I was afraid of. I am looking at in the wrong way - 

Okay, is there a method of perhaps adding an effect to the image that
could
be turned on or off - like for example a border effect where top and
left
are one color and bottom and right another color and on a mouse over
they
reverse? Follow me on this?

Essentially, we are trying to add some sort of visual cue to a static
image
that is embedded in the tables based template system :-/

Brian

-Original Message-
From: Andrew Krespanis
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 2:04 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] A CSS Question


gt;I am thinking changing that to: lt;img
src=quot;images/foo.gifquot; 
class=quot;ro1quot;gt;

I find it hard to see how you plan to overide the src attribute using
CSS...
Just about any other element would probably be workable, but I can't see
ow 
this could be done using img and CSS only.
Andrew.

_
SEEK: Now with over 50,000 dream jobs! Click here:  
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RE: [WSG] A CSS Question

2004-04-21 Thread James Gollan
Just replace any necessary li elements with a block level item such as a
div, or something semantic in your code if it is there anyway. They may
not even be necessary - can't remember what the code was. The  main
thing is the a link for the hover state. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of theGrafixGuy
Sent: Thursday, 22 April 2004 10:28 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] A CSS Question

James,

Took a look at that and I think that is a step in the right direction!!!

Now I jes gotta figure out how to do it NOT using lists as these images
are
not in lists nor do their location lend themselves to being used as
such!

H.

I'll get this yet with the wonderful advice and help ya'll providing :-)

Brian

-Original Message-
From: James Gollan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 4:50 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] A CSS Question

Having read my post I should point out that I mean a single image for
each button/rollover - not one huge image for everything on your page!
That would just be silly.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of James Gollan
Sent: Thursday, 22 April 2004 9:40 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] A CSS Question

If you are trying to avoid the situation of a separate CSS background
property for each image you could create a single image with all of your
rollover states. You would then use the background position property to
shift this larger image into the correct position. 

The advantage of this method is that you would only need one image in
your CMS and one rule in your CSS applying to the hover state for your
anchor element. The full details on this technique are at
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/sprites/

Cheers,

James

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of theGrafixGuy
Sent: Wednesday, 21 April 2004 7:53 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] A CSS Question

Yeah, that was what I was afraid of. I am looking at in the wrong way - 

Okay, is there a method of perhaps adding an effect to the image that
could
be turned on or off - like for example a border effect where top and
left
are one color and bottom and right another color and on a mouse over
they
reverse? Follow me on this?

Essentially, we are trying to add some sort of visual cue to a static
image
that is embedded in the tables based template system :-/

Brian

-Original Message-
From: Andrew Krespanis
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 2:04 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] A CSS Question


gt;I am thinking changing that to: lt;img
src=quot;images/foo.gifquot; 
class=quot;ro1quot;gt;

I find it hard to see how you plan to overide the src attribute using
CSS...
Just about any other element would probably be workable, but I can't see
ow 
this could be done using img and CSS only.
Andrew.

_
SEEK: Now with over 50,000 dream jobs! Click here:  
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RE: [WSG] I am having a problem... Tab (li) width

2004-04-21 Thread James Gollan









Hi Chris,



The big difference between the pages seems
to be the inclusion of the contact form. Try changing the id of your form element
 for some reason that seems to work although I dont know why!



Cheers



James



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Chris Stratford
Sent: Thursday, 22 April 2004 1:24
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] I am having a
problem... Tab (li) width



Hey Peter,

No it didnt work...
I added the code like you said.
But its not the problem.

it only happens with the 5th tab...
even if there are 7 tabs, only the 5th tab is effected...
no matter what content is written in that tab..

its really eating at my sanity.


but yeah.
RE: tab width...

I have styled the a tag to be the tab, not the li
so when i hover it changes appearance...
would making the LI a fixed witdth work?
And also - the LI is display: inline, and I have never seen widths set to
inline elements before...

some things i just dont get!



Chris Stratford[EMAIL PROTECTED]Http://www.neester.com



Peter Firminger wrote: 

Did my suggestion last night help? Hey everyone... this problem is still a problem for me... anyone have any suggestions?? basically - I want to define the width of the tabs on my website... withouth havint to add a span...Try something like this locally if you want to have different values foreach:li style=width: 80px;a href="">li style=width: 90px;a href="">li style=width: 1000px;a href="">P*The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list  getting help* . 




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RE: [WSG] Flow from bottom?

2004-04-04 Thread James Gollan








IE Win wll leave a 1pixel space when you absolutely
position from the bottom or the right, or more if you actually have white space
in your code. Try removing any line breaks  this should get rid of the
worst of it. 



http://css.nu/pointers/bugs-ie.html

http://www.csscreator.com/css-forum/ftopic2581.htmlsid=d5f9e1408a602f90a000282a0293bf15



James





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Sam Walker
Sent: Sunday, 4 April 2004 10:51
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Flow from
bottom?



Thanks. I'm not entirely sure why it works, but it does seem to.
However, it off-sets the content from the bottom by a few pixels. I replaced
the bottom:20px and top:20px with 0px, and it seems to work fine, but it still
leaves a few pixels of space underneath, even with margin and padding at 0.
Anyone know why?

Also, it seems like this makes my content completely disappear in IE Mac..

On Apr 3, 2004, at 4:02 PM, russ weakley wrote:

position: absolute; left:
20px; bottom: 20px;








RE: [WSG] Failure to load under IE and Opera

2004-04-03 Thread James Gollan
You could try taking out the xml prologue (first line). This causes IE
to render in quirks mode, but I don't think it affects Opera.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Randall Potter
Sent: Saturday, 3 April 2004 6:48 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] Failure to load under IE and Opera

I'm having an issue where the site that I'm working on validates as
xhtml-strict and looks fine under Gecko and KHTML based browsers but,
fails to load in IE, Opera, and dillo.  I would much appreciate it if
someone could help me out here and tell me what I'm missing.

http://www.aegisconsulting.org/proof

Thank you in advance,

Randall Potter
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RE: [WSG] Failure to load under IE and Opera

2004-04-03 Thread James Gollan
On closer inspection it looks like the script tag is creating problems,
needs the closing tag rather than the xhtml empty tag syntax.

James

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Randall Potter
Sent: Saturday, 3 April 2004 6:48 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] Failure to load under IE and Opera

I'm having an issue where the site that I'm working on validates as
xhtml-strict and looks fine under Gecko and KHTML based browsers but,
fails to load in IE, Opera, and dillo.  I would much appreciate it if
someone could help me out here and tell me what I'm missing.

http://www.aegisconsulting.org/proof

Thank you in advance,

Randall Potter
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RE: [WSG]Tables or DIVs / Spans?

2004-04-02 Thread James Gollan
Just looking through my archives for some info on forms and found this.
I am wondering about the use of the legend tag in the first example
(http://www.amonline.net.au/sand/using/survey.htm) to set out the
question. Would this be better suited/more semantically correct in the
label tag? I guess I am trying to figure out the exact role of the
legend tag and if it is describing the structure/grouping of the
questions rather than the questions themselves?

Any comments?

James

-Original Message-
From: russ weakley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, 25 September 2003 2:01 AM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: Re: [WSG]Tables or DIVs / Spans?

Hi Beau,

Where possible I'd try and go for non-tables, and use standard form
elements
and  form-accessibility elements in conjunction with CSS to control the
visual layout of a form. This means that fieldsets could be used to
contain each question block, and legends as the form questions. The
hidden
ones would include id  and label for.

Here is one example I did a while ago with all style controlled by
accessibility elements (it looks at little wide on a full page as it is
designed for a popup window - it is set to flow out to width of
containing
box):
http://www.amonline.net.au/sand/using/survey.htm

Another even simpler (and older) example is where spans can be used to
position the elements so they can control the width of elements so they
line
up as if in a table (but without all the extra code):
http://www.hhmc.com.au/downloads/index.htm

This second form example above uses 3 paragraphs, and the questions are
set
within spans set to specific widths - pushing them out to line up with
each
other down the page. If I were to do that form now I'd use labels or
standard form elements to do the job so no spans were required -
semantically more pure.

Having said all that, I'm sure there are complex forms where it would be
harder to simple use standard accessibility elements or form elements as
the
basis for CSS controlled layout - divs or simple containing tables may
have
to be used.

One quick comment about the first example above is that using
fieldsets
and legends forced me to lay out the form in a simpler, cleaner manor.
This made the table easier to use for normal vision users as well. The
visible containers (which are actually containers to help blind users)
helped to contain each question for those with vision as well.

What do others think?
Russ



 Hi all,
 along a simliar vein to this question, how's this one;
 
 If you are designing a form/survey, would you also go for a table?
It's not
 *really* tabular data, you are using the table for layout/perhaps
grouping
 of elements more than anything.
 
 I know we should be using things like fieldsets, tab order, labels and
all
 other wonderful form elements like that, but they are also compatible
with
 tables (except perhaps fieldsets to some extent...), but what's the
verdict
 about the overall layout?
 
 I know some forms are easily re-designed to avoid tables, but others
would
 really struggle without some sort of rigid, grid-based layouts.
 
 Where do we sit on this one?
 
 Personally, I think I'd go for a table-based design if the layout was
 particularly complex or I thought it required it, but I'd attempt to
 redesign the form (if that was an option) so that this wasn't
necessary.
 
 Beau

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RE: [WSG] Purpose of this mailing list

2004-03-09 Thread James Gollan


I find that whilst there would appear to be a clear separation between a
discussion of web standards and how-to's, quite often a look at
someone's source code sparks off an interesting and valuable debate
about the web standards issues involved. The overlap would seem to add
richness to the list, rather than just volume.

There also seems to be a tendency to email off-list when offering
specific or extensive one-on-one help (which could perhaps be
encouraged)?

One of the downsides of a good list is that it becomes a popular list!!!

Having said this I am not necessarily against the idea of two lists -
I'd join both!

James
-Original Message-
From: Mark Stanton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, 10 March 2004 12:55 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] Purpose of this mailing list


Hi Mike

The purpose of this list is two fold: QA stuff and general web
standards
discussion/news updates. We have tried to create a culture on this list
that
is very topic based rather than creating a really chatty community with
lots
of OT posts about what people got up to on the weekend.

So basically we want this list to contain anything and everything as
long as
its on topic.

I realise that there are other CSS QA lists out there, but this list is
different in the sense that it is really the extension of a group and
the
group's meetings. I would say that at the moment the membership of the
list
these days far exceeds the attendance of our meetings, but the list has
evolved out of the group  group meetings. 

People who can't make it to meetings are always welcomed  encouraged to
organise meetings in their areas.

We are very aware of list volume issues and understand that this is a
touchy
subject for some, but at the same time getting too restrictive will
alienate
other list members. 

I've got a graphic artist in here who has similar complaints to yours -
he
finds Russ's emails with lists of links very interesting because they
give
him a good idea of issues that he has to design around and techniques
that
we can be employing. But he doesn't code CSS all day so he doesn't
really
get much from the how do I get this float working posts.

What would you think about a blog  RSS feed for news stuff (or would
this
just be another CSS blog)? Or two lists, one for news and one for
implementation issues? 

Anyway its an open issue at the moment - we're still trying to find the
right mix.


Cheers

Mark


--
Mark Stanton 
Technical Director 
Gruden Pty Ltd 
Tel: 9956 6388
Mob: 0410 458 201 
Fax: 9956 8433 
http://www.gruden.com  

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RE: [WSG] Padding/Margin in Opera

2004-02-19 Thread James Gollan








Not actually related to your problem, but you
dont seem to have closed your head tag on the home page, creating
problems validating.



-Original
Message-
From: JW
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, 20 February 2004
12:03 AM
To: WSG - CSS List
Subject: [WSG] Padding/Margin in
Opera




 
  
  
  I am converting my entire site from table to css
  layout. SO far so good until this page! 
  
  
  
  
  
  IE6, NS7 and Mozilla Phoenix till Firebird shows ok
  except for Opera.
  
  
  
  
  
  Attached are the screenshots. Somehow Opera seems to
  push the footer down.
  
  
  
  
  
  http://designs.sodesires.com/sodcss/index.htmlis
  where it is located. Test Site.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  With Regards,
  
  
  Jaime Wong
  
  
 
 
  
  
   









   
  
  
  
 



 IncrediMail
- Email has finally evolved - Click Here






image001.gif

[WSG] Site check

2004-02-19 Thread James Gollan








Hi,



Was wondering if anyone with a Mac
would be kind enough to check this out  was having problems with IE5.2,
but any other problems (any browser any platform) would be good to hear about.

http://www.swamphen.com/testing/naturalgrocer/index_v05.html



BTW Michael D  I did change
to the dual float model and it made it a lot easier (although it still may not
work on IE5.2 for mac!) and I went to MacMall and saw the specials. Made me very interested in a
G4 i-book  do you know if the US models power supply is easily converted?



Cheers



James








RE: [WSG] IE 5 position problems

2004-02-14 Thread James Gollan








I think that breaks was a
very gentle word to use  perhaps is destroyed by would better
capture the situation. 



how
different could IE Mac be?, I say to myself as I happily ignore Russs
building with boxes browser checking stage. Gotta get me a Mac.



Thanks Lucian and Russ for your time.



James



-Original Message-
From: Lucian Teo
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, 14 February 2004
4:30 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE 5 position
problems



Looks great on Safari, but breaks in IE / Mac.

Screenshot at http://tribolum.com/space/naturalgrocer.jpg

Lucian
tribolum.com


On Feb 14, 2004, at 1:06 PM, James Gollan wrote:

Thanks
in anticipation  I managed to get it working across all my target
windows browsers. Now to move on to the mac  anyone want to have a look
in a few Mac browsers and tell me the bad news? Go on - itll be
fun breaking another designers spirit ;)



BTW
the working page is http://www.swamphen.com/testing/naturalgrocer/index4.html
- it took some weird changes to a few padding and margin settings to please all
the browsers  and I am still not sure why some things werent
supported. Anyhoo



-Original Message-
From:
James Gollan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent:
Saturday, 14 February 2004 11:18 AM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:
[WSG] IE 5 position problems



Hi guys,



Just wondering if anyone knew why
this layout http://www.swamphen.com/testing/naturalgrocer/index3.html
was breaking in IE5 (severe) and 5.5 (not so severe). I suspect it may be to do
with the box model or a float bug, but cant quite isolate it.



Any help much appreciated.



The rendering problems are:




in
IE5 (Win) the top edges of the two columns are not even;


In
IE5.5 Win the spacing between the columns is too close;


Havent
even looked at the mac yet!



Works in IE6, N6, Firebird



Cheers



James










[WSG] IE 5 position problems

2004-02-13 Thread James Gollan








Hi guys, 



Just wondering if anyone knew why
this layout http://www.swamphen.com/testing/naturalgrocer/index3.html
was breaking in IE5 (severe) and 5.5 (not so severe). I suspect it may be to do
with the box model or a float bug, but cant quite isolate it.



Any help much appreciated.



The rendering problems are:




in IE5 (Win)
the top edges of the two columns are not even;


In IE5.5 Win
the spacing between the columns is too close;


Havent
even looked at the mac yet!



Works in IE6, N6, Firebird



Cheers



James










RE: [WSG] IE 5 position problems

2004-02-13 Thread James Gollan








Thanks in anticipation 
I managed to get it working across all my target windows browsers. Now to move
on to the mac  anyone want to have a look in a
few Mac browsers and tell me the bad news? Go on - itll be fun breaking
another designers spirit ;)



BTW the working page is http://www.swamphen.com/testing/naturalgrocer/index4.html
- it took some weird changes to a few padding and margin settings to please all
the browsers  and I am still not sure why some things werent supported.
Anyhoo



-Original
Message-
From: James Gollan
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, 14 February 2004 11:18 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] IE 5 position
problems



Hi guys, 



Just
wondering if anyone knew why this layout http://www.swamphen.com/testing/naturalgrocer/index3.html
was breaking in IE5 (severe) and 5.5 (not so severe). I suspect it may be to do
with the box model or a float bug, but cant quite isolate it.



Any help
much appreciated.



The
rendering problems are:



 in IE5 (Win) the top edges of the two columns are not even;

 In IE5.5 Win the spacing between the columns is too close;

 Havent even looked at the mac yet!



Works in
IE6, N6, Firebird



Cheers



James










RE: [WSG] IE 5 position problems

2004-02-13 Thread James Gollan

Hi Ben,

Thanks to the time delay on the mailing list our messages crossed. I
will take a look at your suggestion and see if it will make the coding
simpler.

Now, as my mother used to say, Go outside and enjoy the sundshine.

Cheers

James

-Original Message-
From: Ben Bishop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, 14 February 2004 4:02 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE 5 position problems


Hi James,

Without my trusty toolkit handy, I can't answer why it is breaking, I
suspect it is probably a box-model issue as you say, but I do have a
suggestion that might fix the problems.

As you have a fixed-width layout, explicitly setting widths for both
columns and float:lefting the first column, changing
#containerProductUpdates to float:right instead of margin-left:auto
should make things simpler for the browser to nut out.

#containerProductUpdates
{
float:right;
/* margin-left:auto; */
padding:0px;
width:387px
}

hth,
Ben

Only one week till the joint Web Standards Group / Macromedia User
Groups meeting at Star City and MXDU!
www.mxdu.com


James Gollan wrote:

 The rendering problems are:

  .   in IE5 (Win) the top edges of the two columns are not even;

 .   In IE5.5 Win the spacing between the columns is too close;



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[WSG] XML 1.1 critique

2004-01-18 Thread James Gollan








Here a fairly scathing article on the
drawbacks of XML1.1, starting out with some rules:

1.
Don't use it.

2.
(For experts only) If you speak
Mongolian, Yi, Cambodian, Amharic, Dhivehi, Burmese, or a very few other
languages and you want to write your markup (not your text but your markup) in
these languages, you can set the version attribute of the XML declaration to 1.1. Otherwise, refer
to rule 1. 

http://www.informit.com/content/index.asp?product_id=%7BDA0BF1A4-D90E-4C74-AFDC-9DEBE1C8B517%7D011804












RE: [WSG] OT: multiple IE versions

2003-11-06 Thread James Gollan

Finally someone's done it - that's brilliant. 

The IE5.5 shows in the about IE section as being version 6, but it seems
to be 5.5, as it misinterprets the box model.

And you can run them open at the same time. Very cool.



-Original Message-
From: Mark Stanton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, 7 November 2003 12:23 PM
To: Sydney Web Standards Group; CFAussie Mailing List
Subject: [WSG] OT: multiple IE versions


Sorry for the cross post.

For those that haven't heard - someone has managed to get multiple
version
of IE running on their machine, someone else has grabbed the minimum
files
required to run IE5.01 and IE5.5 (about 3mb each) and posted them on
their
site.

http://www.skyzyx.com/archives/94.php

Enjoy...


Cheers

Mark


--
Mark Stanton
Technical Director
Gruden Pty Ltd
Tel: 9956 6388
Mob: 0410 458 201
Fax: 9956 8433
http://www.gruden.com

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RE: [WSG] A comic book version of tables to webstandards...

2003-10-27 Thread James Gollan
Great link - the illustrations are chosen really well, and it's not at
all preachy. Well found!

James

-Original Message-
From: russ weakley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, 28 October 2003 11:09 AM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: [WSG] A comic book version of tables to webstandards...

http://www.hotdesign.com/seybold/

Thanks
Russ

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RE: [WSG]WSG Icons

2003-10-04 Thread James Gollan
I like this third option - the anti-aliased WSG looks good, and is still
readable.

James

-Original Message-
From: Ben Bishop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, 4 October 2003 4:29 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG]WSG Icons

Hello Peter and listies,

-Original Message-
the second icon on the page (WSG fir image replacement version - 2) as
it has the correct colours and matches the logo/favicon format with the
dropped s.
--

Here's another one to throw into mix -
http://leorex.com/skunkworks/wsg/icon/

While it has exactly the same specifications as the other icons, the
WSG
more closely matches the logo/favicon format, and I think it looks
rather
spiffy.

So this one gets my vote, otherwise I'm happy with WSG-FIR-v2.

Cheers,

Ben

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RE: [WSG]Vertically aligned text without tables

2003-09-25 Thread James Gollan
I'm probably missing something here (so just ignore this post), but what
about a containing div with positioning relative, and then position your
boxes within this div. Your text inside is positioned absolutely from
the bottom of the containing box.

style type=text/css
#sectionheader
{
position:relative;
}

#box1, #box2, #box3 
{
position:absolute;
display:inline;
margin:10px;
height:100px;
width:100px;
border:1px solid #666;
}
#box2   {
left:110px
}
#box3   {
left:220px
}
.bottom_text
{
position:absolute;
bottom:0px;
margin:10px;
}

/style
/head

body
div id=sectionheader
div id=box1p class=bottom_textsome text/p/div
div id=box2p class=bottom_textmore text/p/div
div id=box3p class=bottom_textmore text/p/div
/div

It would be more elegant with display:inline for the boxes, but that
caused problems for Opera (don't know why!??).

James
-Original Message-
From: George Karabelas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, 25 September 2003 7:43 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG]Vertically aligned text without tables


hi everyone,

Time to stop lurking.

We have recently converted our corporate site (http://hww.com.au) from a
table based layout to (almost) pure CSS. Unfortunately I have had to use
a table to align text to the bottom of a box. See:
http://hww.com.au/syndication/ (the 3 boxes below the header and above
the content id=subHeading)

Can this be achieved without tables? 

cheers,
George

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RE: [WSG] Vertically aligned text without tables

2003-09-25 Thread James Gollan
The display:inline declaration was unnecessary in this context. I
accidentally left it in when playing around with the box positioning. It
worked in aye-eeeh 6, but it came unstuck in Opera 6. Maybe it could be
tweaked to work reliably.

-Original Message-
From: George Karabelas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, 26 September 2003 12:22 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] Vertically aligned text without tables


Thanks Russ  James,

James, looks like it should work. I'll play around with it to see if I
can get consistent results. At the moment some of the boxes are offset
by a few pixels in Opera and Mozilla but I feel it's somehow related the
the rest of my page. Thanks!

cheers,
George


 -Original Message-
 From: James Gollan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, 26 September 2003 11:00 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: [WSG]Vertically aligned text without tables
 
 
 I'm probably missing something here (so just ignore this 
 post), but what
 about a containing div with positioning relative, and then 
 position your
 boxes within this div. Your text inside is positioned absolutely from
 the bottom of the containing box.
 
   style type=text/css
   #sectionheader
   {
   position:relative;
   }
   
   #box1, #box2, #box3 
   {
   position:absolute;
   display:inline;
   margin:10px;
   height:100px;
   width:100px;
   border:1px solid #666;
   }
   #box2   {
   left:110px
   }
   #box3   {
   left:220px
   }
   .bottom_text
   {
   position:absolute;
   bottom:0px;
   margin:10px;
   }
   
   /style
 /head
 
 body
 div id=sectionheader
 div id=box1p class=bottom_textsome text/p/div
 div id=box2p class=bottom_textmore text/p/div
 div id=box3p class=bottom_textmore text/p/div
 /div
 
 It would be more elegant with display:inline for the boxes, but that
 caused problems for Opera (don't know why!??).
 
 James
 -Original Message-
 From: George Karabelas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Thursday, 25 September 2003 7:43 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [WSG]Vertically aligned text without tables
 
 
 hi everyone,
 
 Time to stop lurking.
 
 We have recently converted our corporate site 
(http://hww.com.au) from a
table based layout to (almost) pure CSS. Unfortunately I have had to use
a table to align text to the bottom of a box. See:
http://hww.com.au/syndication/ (the 3 boxes below the header and above
the content id=subHeading)

Can this be achieved without tables? 

cheers,
George

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