[WSG] How Important Is Web Accessibility?

2009-08-18 Thread James Jeffery
Zooming is present on the majority of modern browsers, so where does this
leave elastic layouts, and em's? Should we still develop sites that grow
should the user want to increase the text size? Even though it's the lower
browsers that do that?

I've been out of the scene for a while, so I've lost touch with the current
practices and conventions.


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***

Re: [WSG] IE8: Extensions to CSS

2009-03-26 Thread James Jeffery
Why do Microsoft always feel the need to include their own properties.

Are these in the CSS 2.1 specs? I've never seen them.

2009/3/26 tee weblis...@gmail.com

 I was looking for a IE8 CSS support chart (do you know any?) and stumble on
 this site:

 http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc304082(VS.85).aspxhttp://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc304082%28VS.85%29.aspx

 Extensions to CSS
 The following CSS attributes are Microsoft extensions to the CSS 2.1
 specification and should be specified with an -ms- prefix in IE8 mode:

• -ms-accelerator
• -ms-background-position-x
• -ms-background-position-y

 .

 Interesting! Would be nice if it has -ms-border-radius .

 tee





 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
 ***




-- 
James Jeffery
Web Developer and iPhone Applications Developer
m: 07964722061


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***


Re: [WSG] Hotlinking prevention does not work

2009-03-21 Thread James Jeffery
This is not the place to discuss such problems. This mailing list is to be
used for discussions based around Web Standards.

Thank you.

2009/3/21 Keryx Web webmas...@keryx.se

 Hi

 I looked at my logs today and I saw a lot of hotlinking gping on.

 So just why does this code not work?

 RewriteEngine on

 RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} !^http://(.+\.)?keryx\.se/ [NC]
 RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} !^$
 RewriteRule .*\.(jpe?g|gif|bmp|png)$ /bilder/image-theft.png [L]


 Lars Gunther


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
 ***




-- 
James Jeffery
Web Developer and iPhone Applications Developer
m: 07964722061


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***

[WSG] Blueprint Grids

2009-03-15 Thread James Jeffery
After reading 'Transcending CSS' I have learnt that grids are not a
replacement for table based layouts (as has been drummed into me by so
called evangelists on IRC). I understand the importance of grids in print
and non-web media and now want to start using them.

I've started using Blueprint. I quickily scrolled through the CSS file and
got a grasp for it.

My problem is this. In the book I am seeing examples where they are using 4
and 5 columns. I have developed a layout, which uses the divine proportion.
So far I have the container, and 2 divs. Now, within these grids do I use
more columns to go with the layout and structure of the design? And if so,
how can I overlap? For example, in the main-content area I might have 5
columns, now lets say using Blueprint and my own CSS I want to use 4 columns
for the content and 1 for meta date per article. How do I use all 4 and
leave the one?

Sounds like a silly, vaugue, question ... I know. But I'm a little taken by
this and am eager to learn because I feel this is going to greatly boost
productivity.

Thanks

-- 
James Jeffery
Web Developer and iPhone Applications Developer
m: 07964722061


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***

Re: [WSG] Failed A Job :(

2009-01-29 Thread James Jeffery
Guys thanks for the response. I hit the sac last night at nearly 6am and was
very pissed off, with myself for failing the job. I'm all good now though
because at the end of the day it wasn't really my doing. The guy that passed
me the work does front-end development all day, I thought it was strange why
he passed on the work to me. Now I see why ... because it was a bloody mess.

Anyway. I can't say who it is, but it's a cable/sat


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***

Re: [WSG] Failed A Job :(

2009-01-29 Thread James Jeffery
Indeed. My only problem is I have lost future work from the guy that feeds
me these jobs because I failed it, he isn't even understanding my situation
and he's a front-end developer aswell. I mean 10 hours to do a whole lot of
bug fixing and a near rewite is stupid. Also there was no SV so when I
edited stuff, they overwrite it and it was an absolute nightmare.

As you said. Lesson learned :p

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Krystian - Sunlust sunl...@gmail.comwrote:

 I remember when through GAF I got a on-page SEO job for a website, I
 was stupid enough to accept it without first looking at the code, it
 came out that it's a table based design with images in the markup used
 for layouts etc.

 I've done as much as I could, but it was a nightmare.

 Like Simon posted, it's a good lesson.

 Regards,

 --
 Krystian - Sunlust
 Affordable Web Services in Eastbourne:
 http://eastbournewebdesign.net
 Mobile UK (Orange): 07528 036 337
 Call for more information or email me.


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***

Re: [WSG] Failed A Job :(

2009-01-29 Thread James Jeffery
Some people are so tight with money (even those with alot) that they settle
for cheap mess rather then refined bliss.

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Viable Design desi...@viabledesign.comwrote:

 I've been feeling a bit guilty for the past few months because I wouldn't
 get the bugs out of a friend's insurance-business site for him on the
 ultra-cheap. The tables and inline mess would've taken so long to sort out
 that I probably would've been better off, time-wise, starting from scratch.
 I offered him a discounted rate, but it wasn't enough of a discount for him,
 I guess.

 Now, I'm thinking I did the right thing after all. I know he wouldn't've
 appreciated the clean coding, and he definitely wouldn't've appreciated the
 time spent.

 Jo Hawke

 On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Simon Pascal Klein kle...@klepas.orgwrote:


 On 30/01/2009, at 2:15 AM, kie...@humdingerdesigns.co.uk 
 kie...@humdingerdesigns.co.uk wrote:

  Join the club, I've been commissioned to do a local website and the guy
 was hoping he'd be able to get a quick bug-fix on his current with a bit of
 updating.

 Unfortuanetly the css was akin to the Guttenberg Bible; completely
 unreadable and would have been a pig to translate. Not to mention, a strange
 and chaotic mishmash of tables, frames and weird proprietary software
 markup. Some clients (and this one did, thank god) need to realize that when
 the original is written by a back street bedroom I can do that wannabe,
 they're paying for someone who can stick a few words and pics up and not
 much else.


 Wel, I for one, relish at the idea of getting my hands on a Gutenburg
 Bible and reading it… well analysing the lettering and type rather, but hey.
 :-)


  From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
 On Behalf Of James Jeffery
 Sent: 29 January 2009 14:13
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Failed A Job :(

 [...]


 ---
 Simon Pascal Klein
 Graphic  Web Designer

 Web: http://klepas.org
 E-mai: kle...@klepas.org
 Twitter: @klepas; http://twitter.com/klepas


 Kaffee und Kuchen.



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
 ***



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
 ***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***


Re: [WSG] friends? - was( Failed A Job :()

2009-01-29 Thread James Jeffery
Aye' I did a task for a friend once. Charged him £100 for a few pages, a
nice design etc. He refused to pay. He is a near millionaire, well his
assets are worth that much.

Business owners don't know how much work is involved sometimes. Even
something basic requires some tweaking for browser support, mobile devices
etc.

To much infatuation with money in the business world. Some people are rich
because they are tight.

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 6:30 PM, designer desig...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk
 wrote:

  I did a site for one of my friends 'on the cheap', but put a lot of hours
 into it, and did it as 'properly' as I could. It was all hand coded and
 validated to the point of neurosis. Eventually, he decided that he wanted to
 pay me because he wanted to add a few more pages. When it was done, I told
 him to 'call it £160'. He went barmy - shouted about the lunacy of charging
 such a crazy amount, just for 'putting a few words in and moving a bit of
 stuff around.  I've haven't heard from him for six months now, despite us
 growing up together on the same road many years ago.

 Friends?  Keep well away!

 Bob

 - Original Message -
 *From:* Viable Design desi...@viabledesign.com
 *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 *Sent:* Thursday, January 29, 2009 5:04 PM
 *Subject:* Re: [WSG] Failed A Job :(

 I've been feeling a bit guilty for the past few months because I wouldn't
 get the bugs out of a friend's insurance-business site for him on the
 ultra-cheap. The tables and inline mess would've taken so long to sort out
 that I probably would've been better off, time-wise, starting from scratch.
 I offered him a discounted rate, but it wasn't enough of a discount for him,
 I guess.

 Now, I'm thinking I did the right thing after all. I know he wouldn't've
 appreciated the clean coding, and he definitely wouldn't've appreciated the
 time spent.

 Jo Hawke


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
 ***


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***


[WSG] Failed A Job :(

2009-01-28 Thread James Jeffery
Big company, worldwide infact. A great one for the resume but I failed it.

I was brought in at the end of the project to fix some bugs. Let me just say
that from viewing the source it was majorly flawed! I spent 6 hours on it
before handing in the towel right near their deadline. The CSS was
unstructured, way to much repetition which was the cause of some bugs and
errors.

The only way out of that was to rewrite the whole lot. I mean the guys who
were on this project were creating empty spans with classes to push elements
along a page (like spacers). They had an empty h1 with a span inside it
for the logo they placed in using CSS ... that was only a part of the issue.

I don't question my knowledge. It's up to par and I have completed a number
of jobs, but on this occasion I sucked ... or they sucked ... or both. This
website will be released to the world, and millions will use it, but its
awfully constructed, not semantic at all and its another case of a poor
website on the web.

Ah well. Lesson learn't. Never jump into a project at the last minute to be
relied upon for a couple of pennies.


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***

[WSG] Multi Column Category Lists

2009-01-27 Thread James Jeffery
Hey all,

Quick question. I have some data pulled from a database (50 of the most
recent categories/tags). These are positioned in a list in 2 columns
(example below):

-
Category1Category5
Category2Category6
Category3Category7
Category4Category8

Its important that these are listed in that order as they are alphabetical
going down the column.

Currently I split the results from the database, place them in an array, and
print 2 columns in separate lists. I was wondering if there is a way to do
it without creating 2 lists and do it with one. I have had a think and a
browse on google and couldn't find anything, so my last resort is to ask
here.

Ideas?


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***

Re: [WSG] Checking My Page

2009-01-14 Thread James Jeffery
I thinks it's worth reminding everyone on the list that Marvin is actually a
blind web developer.

Personally Marvin I would stick with plain vanilla HTML with no styles at
all. Get rid of the Javascript and focus your time into developing and
marking up some rich content.

Never the less, given your circumstances I have to give you praise for your
work.

Btw. I am still trying to locate that paper I write for you. As soon as I
find it I will email it over. Having to search to the works backup server as
it's not on the system.

James

On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 5:18 AM, Luke Hoggett luke.hogg...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi Marvin,

 Wow a flash back to web design circa 1997.

 Well it does pass XHTML transitional, so  plus there.

 In terms of css errors well you really shouldn't be placing styling
 information in id attributes i.e. id=Borg; width: 400px; margin: 1%
 auto;

 Your positioning breaks (text and images in the wrong places) when the
 window is resized.

 Frankly I haven't seen such a bad design in years, the only way you could
 make it better is to add this style to the css
 * {text-decoration: blink}

 Check out some css gallery sites for better design ideas. Do the original
 design as an image in Photoshop or similar, then cut up the xhtml and css
 working from your design.

 Also this isn't a help desk
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm

 best regards
 Luke

  Marvin Hunkin wrote:

 Hi.
 Thanks to Mark Harris, he put my files up on his server.
 so, will post the url for feedback.
 the main problem, i have is the styles.css and the navlinks.css.
 so can people take a look, and show me how to fix some of the errors in the
 css sheets i have.
 and also general feedback, not so much on content, pretty happy with the
 content and the message.
 now, formatting, colours, background, etc.
 all comments, suggestions, and complaints are welcome.
 cheers Marvin.

 ps: so here's the url to the site.
 http://tracs.co.nz/marvin/
 E-mail: startrekc...@gmail.com
 MSN: sttartrekc...@msn.com
 Skype: startrekcafe
 We Are The Borg! You Will Be Assimilated! Resistance Is Futile!
 Star Trek Voyager Episode 68 Scorpian Part One




 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
 ***





 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
 ***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***

Re: [WSG] Blockquote

2009-01-08 Thread James Jeffery
This is the Internet mate, the site owners of the sites I'm to be scraping
use the same methods. If I was to cite that site it would be wrong anyway
because they don't even own all the content.

If there is a financial gain, why sit back and let someone else gain from
it? I know a guy that does the same with a lyrics site and makes roughly
£14,000 a year in Adsense. It has to be done.

On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Adam Martin ajmartin...@gmail.com wrote:

 Yes I don't think this is the place to ask advise on illegal matters.
 Scraping content from websites that you do not have permission from is
 copyright infringement. The fact that you don't want to cite the original
 source inidcates to me that you are building this site for some financial
 gain - whether that is to get exposure, advertising revenue or other means.

 Respect the content owners, ask for their permission to use the content!!


 - Original Message - From: David Dorward da...@dorward.me.uk
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 8:42 AM
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Blockquote


  James Jeffery wrote:

 Thanks for the heads up guys. I know how to use blockquote, that's not an
 issue, but I'm wondering if using cite would be worth it.

 I won't be storing the URL from the original page. If I did citing the
 orig. page that could get me into a while lot of trouble if I am
 mirroring/scraping/*stealing* quotes from certain sites. Hence why I do not
 want to cite the original site.


 I'm not sure I understand you correctly. Are you saying that your are
 infringing on copyright and are worried that citing the source will get you
 caught? If so, you're trying to solve the wrong problem and should be
 seeking to license the content or otherwise use it within the constraints of
 the law.


 --
 David Dorward
 http://dorward.me.uk/


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
 ***




 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***


Re: [WSG] Blockquote

2009-01-08 Thread James Jeffery
It doesn't. I was supposed to email off list. Back to the question.

On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Andrew Maben and...@andrewmaben.com wrote:

 On Jan 8, 2009, at 8:49 AM, Adam Martin wrote:

 but theft is theft, because someone else does it does not change the law...


 indeed...

 but I'm losing track of what exactly this has to do with standards?


 Andrew



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
 ***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***

Re: [WSG] Checking My Page

2009-01-07 Thread James Jeffery
lol. Don't worry Lisa.

I was reading it and I thought for a second it was some spam type of email.
Was a good read :p

I've did the same in the past.

Regards

James Jeffery

On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Lisa B McLaughlin l...@allspunup.comwrote:

 OMG! So sorry to blast a personal email here!  I WILL use my glasses when
 using my BlackBerry!  Really.  (I at least how you got a laugh from my
 idiocy!) Lisa

 -Original Message-
 From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
 Behalf Of l...@allspunup.com
 Sent: 07 January 2009 07:04
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Checking My Page

 Hi
   My sister was only able to afford a house because a hurricane made her
 eligible for a spacial deal. Lots of luck finding something where
 transportation isn't such an issue. Lots of places open now.
   Yes, I am planning on Ian's party so getting a ride home shouldn't be a
 problem.
   David is as can be expected. Funeral is today so he's on his way to
 Belfast.
 LL xx
 --Original Message--
 From: Marvin Hunkin
 Sender: li...@webstandardsgroup.org
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 ReplyTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: [WSG] Checking My Page
 Sent: Jan 7, 2009 05:15

 Hi.
 well, got some suggestions, from a friend.
 and now uploaded my latest files to http://drop.io/startrekcafe/
 so, take a look, give me feedback, and any other suggestions, i might need,
 or if my page, style sheet, and the nav links.css, looks fine and it looks
 professional, and the fonts, colours, and the page looks fine, then give me
 some feedback.
 cheers Marvin.
 E-mail: startrekc...@gmail.com
 MSN: sttartrekc...@msn.com
 Skype: startrekcafe
 We Are The Borg! You Will Be Assimilated! Resistance Is Futile!
 Star Trek Voyager Episode 68 Scorpian Part One




 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
 ***



 Sent from my BlackBerryR wireless device
 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
 ***




 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***

[WSG] Blockquote

2009-01-07 Thread James Jeffery
I'm developing a site. A quote site infact. For the quotes I think it's wise
to use blockquote ... but, the quotes are being scraped from other sites
so how would I cite them? Could I use a wiki url for the author? And what if
the author is unknown or has no wiki page.

Do I *need* to include the cite attribute?


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***

Re: [WSG] Blockquote

2009-01-07 Thread James Jeffery
Thanks for the heads up guys. I know how to use blockquote, that's not an
issue, but I'm wondering if using cite would be worth it.

I won't be storing the URL from the original page. If I did citing the orig.
page that could get me into a while lot of trouble if I am
mirroring/scraping/*stealing* quotes from certain sites. Hence why I do not
want to cite the original site.

Any advances on the problem?

If I could leave the cite out, without it causing an issue then I would. I
was going to use a p, but an uncited blockquote would be more semantic
than a p I felt.


On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 12:33 AM, Chris Cressman ch...@chriscressman.comwrote:

  ,,,and the cite attribute itself is optional, used only
  when the quote, as you say, is scraped from another site. :)

 The cite attribute is poorly supported by most browsers, in the sense
 that they don't do anything with it. However, you can use a CSS
 attribute selector and CSS generated content to display its value on
 your page. I'm not a CSS expert, so I can't code it up, but perhaps
 someone else will do it if you're interested.

 Chris


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***

Re: FW: [WSG] High-Pass Filter and Yahoo's reset stylesheet (question regarding validation)

2008-11-21 Thread James Jeffery
Ted,

Thanks for going the extra mile. Iit explains it really well for those that
don't know.

James

On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 8:58 AM, Ted Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Here's a reply from Nate K, the architect of grids, fonts, reset, … files
 in YUI


  --

 *From:* Nate Koechley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 *Sent:* Thursday, November 20, 2008 7:27 PM
 *To:* Ted Drake
 *Subject:* Re: [WSG] High-Pass Filter and Yahoo's reset stylesheet
 (question regarding validation)



 My explanation of the things that don't validate is here:

 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-javascript/message/40059



 Thanks,

 Nate





 On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 11:06 AM, James Jeffery 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   20

 input, textarea, select

 Parse Error {*font-size:100%;

 20

 input, textarea, select

 Parse error - Unrecognized ;}


 Test it: 
 http://mi-linux.wlv.ac.uk/~0802390/reset.csshttp://mi-linux.wlv.ac.uk/%7E0802390/reset.css


 That's not in reset.css, it's from fonts.css. It's also not the High Pass 
 filter
 - see here for an explanation:

 http://tantek.com/CSS/Examples/highpass.html

 If you're worried about it, extract the IE-only code out of the file and
 wrap it in conditional comments.

 - Matthew




 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***


[WSG] High-Pass Filter and Yahoo's reset stylesheet (question regarding validation)

2008-11-20 Thread James Jeffery
Was just wondering. I always use Yahoo's reset.css file to reset elements,
but I have just noticed there is a CSS parse error in it (purposely put
there for browser selecting).
I used the reset.css file in a web development assignment at uni and am
worried that I will lose marks.

The marking guide says to get an A you must have no CSS errors, but do you
think in this case exceptions could be made? Also the High-Pass filter flags
a CSS 'File Not Found' error
because it uses null as a filename. I used this to target IE 5 and below so
they recieve no CSS document.

There are 2 errors within the document, should these be classed as errors to
degrade my final mark? I have documented them in my test plan to show they
are not missed errors but
I'm not sure what they will think of it.

Any help would be great.

James


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] High-Pass Filter and Yahoo's reset stylesheet (question regarding validation)

2008-11-20 Thread James Jeffery
20 input, textarea, select  Parse Error {*font-size:100%;   20 input,
textarea, select  Parse error - Unrecognized ;}
Test it: http://mi-linux.wlv.ac.uk/~0802390/reset.css

On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Matthew Pennell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:

 On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 10:45 AM, James Jeffery 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Was just wondering. I always use Yahoo's reset.css file to reset elements,
 but I have just noticed there is a CSS parse error in it (purposely put
 there for browser selecting).


 I can't see any parse errors in reset.css:

 http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/reset/

 I use it myself as the basis for all stylesheets, and have never had a
 validation problem.

 - Matthew


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] High-Pass Filter and Yahoo's reset stylesheet (question regarding validation)

2008-11-20 Thread James Jeffery
Dude, I didn't say that was the high pass filter. I said that was the error
in the reset.css. The high pass filter is a different issue unrelated to the
Yahoo
reset stylesheet.

Also, if you look at the source code for reset-min.css you will see it isn't
nothing to do with the fonts stylesheet and is infact in the reset-min.css
stylesheet.

Check it yourself. You will see I'm correct ;)

On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Matthew Pennell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:

 On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 11:06 AM, James Jeffery 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 20 input, textarea, select  Parse Error {*font-size:100%;   20 input,
 textarea, select  Parse error - Unrecognized ;}
 Test it: 
 http://mi-linux.wlv.ac.uk/~0802390/reset.csshttp://mi-linux.wlv.ac.uk/%7E0802390/reset.css


 That's not in reset.css, it's from fonts.css. It's also not the High Pass
 filter - see here for an explanation:

 http://tantek.com/CSS/Examples/highpass.html

 If you're worried about it, extract the IE-only code out of the file and
 wrap it in conditional comments.


 - Matthew

 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

[WSG] Strange character encoding issue

2008-11-19 Thread James Jeffery
Never had a problem with character encodings on web pages, but since I
reinstalled the OS on my iMac I have had an issue.

Some of my characters, especially when using ' seem to mess up. This is the
page, content and layout are simple as it's for a uni assignment:
http://mi-linux.wlv.ac.uk/~0802390/overview.html

Check out the overview.html page, and notice the issues. There is one
noticeable in the overview page ‘SOAP’

Any ideas?

(for those interested I do plan to publish a website regarding the Semantic
Web shortly).


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***


Re: [WSG] Strange character encoding issue

2008-11-19 Thread James Jeffery
I don't own the server.

Anyway. I saved as ISO-8859-1, and it works on windows now but not on Mac.
Pulling my hair out at this issue.

On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 4:23 PM, David Dorward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 James Jeffery wrote:
  Never had a problem with character encodings on web pages, but since I
  reinstalled the OS on my iMac I have had an issue.

 Your server says:

  Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1

 But the data is UTF-8.

 --
 David Dorward   http://dorward.me.uk/


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Strange character encoding issue

2008-11-19 Thread James Jeffery
Got it to work.

I think,  back when I got the iMac I set all this up because I had a similar
issue. When I formatted I forgot to do it again.

On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 4:32 PM, James Jeffery 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I don't own the server.

 Anyway. I saved as ISO-8859-1, and it works on windows now but not on Mac.
 Pulling my hair out at this issue.


 On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 4:23 PM, David Dorward [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:

 James Jeffery wrote:
  Never had a problem with character encodings on web pages, but since I
  reinstalled the OS on my iMac I have had an issue.

 Your server says:

  Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1

 But the data is UTF-8.

 --
 David Dorward   http://dorward.me.uk/


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***





***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Strange character encoding issue

2008-11-19 Thread James Jeffery
I used the iso-8859-1 charset and all works :)

On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 4:35 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Your server send the data as:

 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1

 but in your code says UTF-8.

 The values in the http-header overwrites any values in the document.

 == change the content type settig on your server

 or

 == use iso-8859-1 charset in your documents and only valid chars.


 hope this helps.

 Kind regards, Stefan




 James Jeffery wrote:

 Never had a problem with character encodings on web pages, but since I
 reinstalled the OS on my iMac I have had an issue.

 Some of my characters, especially when using ' seem to mess up. This is the
 page, content and layout are simple as it's for a uni assignment:
 http://mi-linux.wlv.ac.uk/~0802390/overview.htmlhttp://mi-linux.wlv.ac.uk/%7E0802390/overview.html

 Check out the overview.html page, and notice the issues. There is one
 noticeable in the overview page ‘SOAP’

 Any ideas?

 (for those interested I do plan to publish a website regarding the Semantic
 Web shortly).


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***


Re: [WSG] Strange character encoding issue

2008-11-19 Thread James Jeffery
Tim,

Yes that is a common problem. Usually I would fix that, but seen as I have
about 3 hours to get this tested and handed in I think I will leave it. I'll
just underline the links :) Thanks for the complement on the design and the
fact you spotted the usability issue. Much appreciated.

James

On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 5:09 PM, Tim Offenstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Never had a problem with character encodings on web pages, but since I
 reinstalled the OS on my iMac I have had an issue.

 Some of my characters, especially when using ' seem to mess up. This is the
 page, content and layout are simple as it's for a uni assignment:
 http://mi-linux.wlv.ac.uk/~0802390/overview.htmlhttp://mi-linux.wlv.ac.uk/%7E0802390/overview.html

 Check out the overview.html page, and notice the issues. There is one
 noticeable in the overview page ⤗SOAP⤠

 Any ideas?
  (for those interested I do plan to publish a website regarding the
 Semantic Web shortly).

 James,

 Running your page through the W3 Validator (validator.w3.org) gives the
 following response:

  Error line 5 7 , C o l u m n 2 0 : n o n S G M L c h a r a c t e r n u m b
 e r 1 4 5 .
   t h e k e y w o r d ë S O A P í i n a s e a r c h e n g i n e w i l l r
 e t u r n r e s u l t s
   You have used an illegal character in your text. HTML uses the standard
 UNICODE Consortium (http://www.unicode.org/) character repertoire, and it
 leaves undefined (among others) 65 character codes (0 to 31 inclusive and
 127 to 159 inclusive) that are sometimes used for typographical quote marks
 and similar in proprietary character sets. The validator has found one of
 these undefined characters in your document. The character may appear on
 your browser as a curly quote, or a trademark symbol, or some other fancy
 glyph; on a different computer, however, it will likely appear as a
 completely different character, or nothing at all.

 Your best bet is to replace the character with the nearest equivalent ASCII
 character, or to use an appropriate character entity (
 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/html3/latin1.html).

 For more information on Character Encoding on the web, see Alan Flavell's
 excellent  HTML Character Set Issues/a reference (
 http://web.archive.org/web/20060425191748/ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/~flavehttp://web.archive.org/web/20060425191748/ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/%7Eflave
 ll/charset/).

 End of quote.

 I always recommend people use UTF-8 because it's a much larger character
 set than ISO-8859-1. I also recommend use of XHTML Transitional rather than
 HTML DTD's.

 On a side note, I like your page, very attractive. But I found the 1, 2, 3,
 ... buttons at the top confusing because I kept trying to click the number.
 Then I tried clicking the blue text, both of which produced nothing. Finally
 my cursor wandered over the black text and I realized it was the link.
 Perhaps underlining that link or making it dynamic like the button would
 prevent the confusion I encountered. On the other hand, perhaps I just need
 another cup of coffee!

 Peace,

 -Tim



 --

 
Tim Offenstein  ***  Campus Accessibility Liaison  ***  (217)
 244-2700
 CITES Departmental Services  ***  www.uiuc.edu/goto/offenstein
 

 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***


Re: [WSG] Tools or analytics to detect assistive devices

2008-11-19 Thread James Jeffery
Install the web accessibility toolbar for Firefox, that will help you out.

I am doing alot of testing at the moment for a site I am developing. I use
Cynthia Says, TAW, WebAIM WAVE  to name a few.

James

On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 4:49 PM, McLaughlin, Gail
[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:

  I'm wondering if anybody here knows of a way to use analytics data to
 help determine a good guess or idea of which users are using screen readers
 to access data, or having trouble with certain pages (thus making the case
 for doing usability and accessibility exercises)?

 Thanks,
 Gail

 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

[WSG] img cannot be contained within the body?

2008-11-06 Thread James Jeffery
A very silly question that I cannot believe I am asking.

I have never had to use img within the body tag. I was playing about with
a test case for a client and happened to put img directly within the body
(was for an image on screen with next and prev. links ... a gallery).

I validated, and it was saying img needs to be contained. I checked the
specs but could not see anything that was stating this.

In the real application it wouldn't be directly within the body, because it
would be within a page section div anyway, but am just curious.

James.


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] img cannot be contained within the body?

2008-11-06 Thread James Jeffery
Ah, see. One little assumption threw me off.

I know inlines can't contain blocks. I assumed the body element was block
level by default. You see, it goes to show, after developing websites for
many companies and government agencies over the years you can still be threw
off by something silly.

Cheers anyway.

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 8:18 PM, Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 3:04 PM, James Jeffery
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  A very silly question that I cannot believe I am asking.
 
  I have never had to use img within the body tag. I was playing about
 with
  a test case for a client and happened to put img directly within the
 body
  (was for an image on screen with next and prev. links ... a gallery).
 
  I validated, and it was saying img needs to be contained. I checked the
  specs but could not see anything that was stating this.
 
  In the real application it wouldn't be directly within the body, because
 it
  would be within a page section div anyway, but am just curious.

 The specs say that inline elements have to be contained within block
 level elements. IMG is inline, DIV is block. BODY is neither.

 --
 --
 Christian Montoya
 christianmontoya.net


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] JavaScript clarification please

2008-10-27 Thread James Jeffery
My statement was not worded correctly.

I use Java, C++, PHP and Javascript and I can tell you that out of the lot
of them, Javascript is the most difficult to incorperate conventional Object
Orientated design. For example you cannot simply define classes, or use
visability keywords (you can do it, but not the conventional way) and some
of the OOP design patterns are difficult to put into Javascript.

I have the Apress book on Javascript Design Patterns, which helped alot when
learning OOP in JS.

Sorry my wording was wrong. I think the above is what I meant.


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] CSS editors

2008-10-20 Thread James Jeffery
I have both BBEdit and TextMate.

I use TextMate alot because it's a nice and simple text editor. Project
creation is easy also, you just drag in project folders.

I like BBEdit when I am doing Java, C/C++ and general programming, but
depending on the task I will use XCode aswell.

If it's just HTML, CSS, JavaScript, PHP/Python/Ruby then I'd go with
TextMate: http://macromates.com/

Good move on the Mac though.

James


On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 10:51 AM, Gicela Morales
[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:

 Hi Everyone,
 I've just migrated form PC to a new macbook  :-) but was wondering about
 the best xhtml/css editors for macs around that people can recommend?

 I can see that BBEdit is still around ( I used to use this back in the
 90's) and CSSedit seem to have some good reviews. Any preferences?

 Kind regards,
 Gicela


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

[WSG] Uppercase Tag Names

2008-09-26 Thread James Jeffery
I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase text for
tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because otherwise I
will lose a mark.

I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said you need
to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01.

I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I didn't
really want to argue with him because he assumes I know nothing. I do know
that the source code has become difficult to read using that method.


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Dev. For Mobile Browsers

2008-09-16 Thread James Jeffery
Thank you shawn, they are helping alot :)

On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 2:58 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Anyone got any good resources on developing for mobile browsers? It's an
  area I have never really looked into, but am interested in.

 - Mobile Web Best Practices http://www.w3.org/TR/mobile-bp/
 - Mobile Web Application Best Practices http://www.w3.org/TR/mwabp/

 - W3C Mobile Web Initiative home page links to related info
 http://www.w3.org/Mobile/

 - Web Content Accessibility and Mobile Web: Making a Web Site Accessible
 Both for People with Disabilities and for Mobile Devices
 http://www.w3.org/WAI/mobile/

 Hope these help...

 ~Shawn


 -
 Shawn Lawton Henry
 W3C Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 phone: +1.617.395.7664
 about: http://www.w3.org/People/Shawn/



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Dev. For Mobile Browsers

2008-09-14 Thread James Jeffery
Thanks to everyone. And thank you Frank.

On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 7:53 AM, Frank Palinkas [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:

 James, please take a look here:

 http://dev.opera.com/articles/mobile/

 This is a collecton of developer articles on mobile technology at the
 dev.opera.com.

 Kind regards,
 Frank M. Palinkas
 QA Documentation/Technical Writer
 Opera Software ASA, Oslo, Norway
 http://www.opera.com/
 http://dev.opera.com/articles/accessibility/
 http://frank.helpware.net



 On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 4:13 AM, James Jeffery 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Anyone got any good resources on developing for mobile browsers? It's an
 area I have never really looked into, but am interested in.

 Cheers.

 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

[WSG] Dev. For Mobile Browsers

2008-09-12 Thread James Jeffery
Anyone got any good resources on developing for mobile browsers? It's an
area I have never really looked into, but am interested in.

Cheers.


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon???

2008-09-04 Thread James Jeffery
Just got chrome on my XP machine. Looks good but I am concerned about
accessibility. Again, thanks Steve.
James Jeffery

On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 5:19 PM, kevin erickson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:

 Thank you for the report Steve. It was very helpful!!

 kevin


 On Wed, 03 Sep 2008 11:23:15 -0400, Steve Green 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Yes, this is the case. There has been a lot of talk about this in GAWDS,
 and
 Steve Faulkner has written about it at
 http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/?p=92.

 Basically it looks like there's no MSAA support. If they don't address
 this,
 many large organisations (at least in the UK) will not use it. I imagine
 that such organisations are exactly the people Google are expecting to
 build
 applications using Chrome, so hopefully this will be addressed at some
 point, ideally before it comes out of beta.

 Steve


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of kevin erickson
 Sent: 03 September 2008 16:07
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon???

 I have a huge concern about accessibility here. Apparently Jaws and other
 screen readers don't work on Google Chrome at all. Can others please
 confirm?

 kevin


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




 --
 Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Coming very soon...

2008-09-02 Thread James Jeffery
I am looking forward to Google's Chrome browser.

I have been on many IRC channels today, and on many forums and everyones
talking about Chrome. Its got more hype than FF3 had, so lets hope it loves
up to the hype.


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Web dev or design certificates

2008-08-22 Thread James Jeffery
I havn't even viewed the Opera certs. but I 'think' they do something
similar.

I also know that PPK is doing something to get front end engineers
recognized. He is developing a cert. programme or something.

As for PHP you can do the Zend Certified Engineer exam.

Web Development is a fast changing subject and there are many branches to
it. I doubt any certification would be 'in date' for long.

On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 6:57 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Every once in a while I'll have a student ask if there are any global or
 national web design or web dev certificate programs that are worth more than
 the paper they are printed on.

 Anyone know of any (XHTML, CSS, PHP, Flash, etc) that adhere to web
 standards and are recognized by employers?



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: RE: [WSG] Web Application Accessibility

2008-08-20 Thread James Jeffery
Could be a genuine mistake guys. I doubt its spam.

I like that building, and how you can click an apartment and get an birds
eye view of it. Did you develop that?

I completed the survey btw.

James

On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 3:06 AM, William Donovan 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 Chris,

 I got it twice as well. Hence the spam question.

 I doubt it is in the system twice.
 do you generally get new posts twice?

 William
 Melbourne CORE

  Ash, Chris \(SYD-MWG\) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I just got the below email twice. Do i have two instances of my email in
  your database ?
 
 
 
  If yes can u pls amend
 
 
 
  Regards.
 
 
 
  Chris Ash | Interactive Developer
 
  McCann Worldgroup Sydney | 166 William Street, Woolloomooloo, NSW 2011,
  Australia
  T: +61 (0)2 9994 4280 | M: +61 (0)414 772 551 | E:
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this
  e-mail
 
 
 
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  On Behalf Of Andy Taylor
  Sent: Wednesday, 20 August 2008 11:27 AM
  To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
  Subject: [WSG] Web Application Accessibility
 
 
 
  Hi, I am conducting a study into the accessibility of Internet
  application frameworks for a thesis in computer science and I would be
  grateful if you would take the time to complete the following test,
  its very short and would help a lot with this piece of research, I
  will post a link to a summarized version when I have completed the
  research.
 
  http://www.krumphau.com/disapps/index.php
 
  Regards
 
  Andy
 
 
  ***
  List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
  Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
  Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  ***
  _
  This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed
  Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information
  visit http://www.mci.com
  This message contains information which may be confidential and
  privileged. Unless you
  are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive this message for
  the intended
  recipient), you may not use, copy, disseminate or disclose to anyone the
  message or
  any information contained in the message. If you have received the
  message in error,
  please advise the sender by reply e-mail, and delete the message. Thank
  you.
 
 
 
  ***
  List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
  Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
  Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  ***


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Issues making compliant code using Joomla! [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

2008-08-20 Thread James Jeffery
I stopped using Joomla! because of security flaws and the whole system is
code bloated and difficult to understand. The documentation is also weak.

I started getting to grips with Symfony, although strictly not a CMS, it
offers alot more power and flexability.

James


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

[WSG] Tables for product=price list

2008-08-11 Thread James Jeffery
In the past I have tryed to avoid tables as much as possible and sometimes
going as far as using lists for data that should be placed in tables. I am
trying to sway away from the 'never use tables' crowd and have started to
use them when they need to be used.

I am working on a tattoo website and the client wants a list of pricing for
tattoos and peircings. Would you say this is a good candidate for a table?

Although 'price list' states list, its not to say that a list should be
used.

Any ideas.

James


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list

2008-08-11 Thread James Jeffery
Here is the current mark-up

h3Body Art/h3
table

captionBody Art Price List/caption

thead
tr
thProduct/th
thPrice/th
/tr
/thead

tbody
tr
tdSmall (writing only, per letter)/td
td£10/td
/tr

tr
tdLarge (writing only, per letter)/td
td£20/td
/tr

tr
tdSmall (single color)/td
td£40/td
/tr

tr
tdMedium (single color)/td
td£80/td
/tr

tr
tdLarge (single color)/td
td£110/td
/tr

tr
tdSmall (3 colors)/td
td£90/td
/tr

tr
tdMedium (3 colors)/td
td£180/td
/tr

tr
tdLarge (3 color)/td
td£250/td
/tr
/tbody
/table


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***


Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list

2008-08-11 Thread James Jeffery
Disagree.

Many shopping carts on the web have product lists or summarys marked up in a
table. When you look at it from the point of view where one column is the
products and the other is the price, and another is VAT per product its more
semantic to do it that way.

Again, just because something is a list does not mean it should be in a
list. Take for example students grades. The school needs to list the name,
the subject, the expected grade, the outcome (30/30) and a percentage
(100%). You could easily say its a list of students grades, because it is,
but you are not going to put that into a list because it would be wrong to.

James

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:24 AM, Stuart Foulstone
[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:

 A list is the most appropriate for a list.

 The fact that price list states list DOES mean a list should be used -
 when you use the term list that's what the user then expects it to be.

 If you don't want to use a list (for whatever pedantic reason) then don't
 call it one. If you want to use a table, call it a table.

 Not using a list when a list is appropriate is just as bad as not using a
 table when a table is appropriate.





 On Mon, August 11, 2008 9:31 am, silky wrote:
  On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 6:01 PM, James Jeffery
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  In the past I have tryed to avoid tables as much as possible and
  sometimes
  going as far as using lists for data that should be placed in tables.
  I am
  trying to sway away from the 'never use tables' crowd and have started
  to
  use them when they need to be used.
 
  I am working on a tattoo website and the client wants a list of pricing
  for
  tattoos and peircings. Would you say this is a good candidate for a
  table?
 
  use a table.
 
  those that say 'never use tables' are insane and often think that
  'css' and 'tables' are mutually exclusive. i ignore those people.
 
  tables are perfectly appropriate for this situation.
 
 
  Although 'price list' states list, its not to say that a list should be
  used.
 
  Any ideas.
 
  James
 
  --
  silky
  http://www.themonkeynet.com/armada/
  http://www.boxofgoodfeelings.com/
  http://www.themonkeynet.com/
  http://lets.coozi.com.au/
 
 
  ***
  List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
  Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
  Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  ***
 
 




 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list

2008-08-11 Thread James Jeffery
And the same can be said for my example where each row has data relating to
the product, size, color info and price.

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Stuart Foulstone
[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:



 On Mon, August 11, 2008 10:38 am, James Jeffery wrote:
  Disagree.
 
 ...

 
  Again, just because something is a list does not mean it should be in a
  list. Take for example students grades. The school needs to list the
 name,
  the subject, the expected grade, the outcome (30/30) and a percentage
  (100%). You could easily say its a list of students grades, because it
 is,
  but you are not going to put that into a list because it would be wrong
  to.
 

 You could easily say its a list, but it's not.

 It's a table of related student data in which comparisons are made across
 the rows and down the columns.

 One compares across the rows for each student's results (expected, actual
 and percentage) and compares down columns for differences between
 students.

 Much more than a list.





 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list

2008-08-11 Thread James Jeffery
Even if it where product and price, as in my origional example, a table is
still more semantic because the data in the rows relate to the columns i.e.
product and price.

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:38 AM, James Jeffery 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 And the same can be said for my example where each row has data relating to
 the product, size, color info and price.


 On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Stuart Foulstone 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 On Mon, August 11, 2008 10:38 am, James Jeffery wrote:
  Disagree.
 
 ...

 
  Again, just because something is a list does not mean it should be in a
  list. Take for example students grades. The school needs to list the
 name,
  the subject, the expected grade, the outcome (30/30) and a percentage
  (100%). You could easily say its a list of students grades, because it
 is,
  but you are not going to put that into a list because it would be wrong
  to.
 

 You could easily say its a list, but it's not.

 It's a table of related student data in which comparisons are made across
 the rows and down the columns.

 One compares across the rows for each student's results (expected, actual
 and percentage) and compares down columns for differences between
 students.

 Much more than a list.





 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***





***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list

2008-08-11 Thread James Jeffery
Rob,

Yeah I have now after extensive research. I have headed the table with a
caption and it uses a h3. There are various parent sections above the
table that use h2 and h1.

Cheers.

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Rob Enslin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 James, sounds like you've answered your own question/doubt then? Perhaps
 you should head your 'list' as h1Prices/h1 and not h1Price List/h1?

 2008/8/11 James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Disagree.

 Many shopping carts on the web have product lists or summarys marked up in
 a table. When you look at it from the point of view where one column is the
 products and the other is the price, and another is VAT per product its more
 semantic to do it that way.

 Again, just because something is a list does not mean it should be in a
 list. Take for example students grades. The school needs to list the name,
 the subject, the expected grade, the outcome (30/30) and a percentage
 (100%). You could easily say its a list of students grades, because it is,
 but you are not going to put that into a list because it would be wrong to.

 James


 On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:24 AM, Stuart Foulstone 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 A list is the most appropriate for a list.

 The fact that price list states list DOES mean a list should be used
 -
 when you use the term list that's what the user then expects it to be.

 If you don't want to use a list (for whatever pedantic reason) then don't
 call it one. If you want to use a table, call it a table.

 Not using a list when a list is appropriate is just as bad as not using a
 table when a table is appropriate.





 On Mon, August 11, 2008 9:31 am, silky wrote:
  On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 6:01 PM, James Jeffery
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  In the past I have tryed to avoid tables as much as possible and
  sometimes
  going as far as using lists for data that should be placed in
 tables.
  I am
  trying to sway away from the 'never use tables' crowd and have started
  to
  use them when they need to be used.
 
  I am working on a tattoo website and the client wants a list of
 pricing
  for
  tattoos and peircings. Would you say this is a good candidate for a
  table?
 
  use a table.
 
  those that say 'never use tables' are insane and often think that
  'css' and 'tables' are mutually exclusive. i ignore those people.
 
  tables are perfectly appropriate for this situation.
 
 
  Although 'price list' states list, its not to say that a list should
 be
  used.
 
  Any ideas.
 
  James
 
  --
  silky
  http://www.themonkeynet.com/armada/
  http://www.boxofgoodfeelings.com/
  http://www.themonkeynet.com/
  http://lets.coozi.com.au/
 
 
  ***
  List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
  Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
  Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  ***
 
 




 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




 --
 / Rob Enslin
 / enslin.co.uk
 / twitter.com/robenslin
 / +44759 052 8890

 ***

 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list

2008-08-11 Thread James Jeffery
Ian and Micheal, you summed up what I was about to write. Some people got
really defensive.

My argument all along was that a list should not always be marked up as a
list as such. Take ebay for example, they even go to the extent of calling
their results 'lists'. You can see this on results pages where it says view
as list. Nobody says oh look here is my table of results on PS3's they
say oh look at that long list of PS3 products, even though behind the
scenes its a tables. It would be totally wrong for ebay to mark up their
results as lists, but the way they are styled makes them look like lists to
humans, though strictly they are not.

So a list isn't always a list and my example above was what I was trying to
get across.

Great debate guys! as always :)

James

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:46 AM, James Jeffery 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Rob,

 Yeah I have now after extensive research. I have headed the table with a
 caption and it uses a h3. There are various parent sections above the
 table that use h2 and h1.

 Cheers.

 On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Rob Enslin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 James, sounds like you've answered your own question/doubt then? Perhaps
 you should head your 'list' as h1Prices/h1 and not h1Price List/h1?

 2008/8/11 James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Disagree.

 Many shopping carts on the web have product lists or summarys marked up
 in a table. When you look at it from the point of view where one column is
 the products and the other is the price, and another is VAT per product its
 more semantic to do it that way.

 Again, just because something is a list does not mean it should be in a
 list. Take for example students grades. The school needs to list the name,
 the subject, the expected grade, the outcome (30/30) and a percentage
 (100%). You could easily say its a list of students grades, because it is,
 but you are not going to put that into a list because it would be wrong to.

 James


 On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:24 AM, Stuart Foulstone 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 A list is the most appropriate for a list.

 The fact that price list states list DOES mean a list should be used
 -
 when you use the term list that's what the user then expects it to be.

 If you don't want to use a list (for whatever pedantic reason) then
 don't
 call it one. If you want to use a table, call it a table.

 Not using a list when a list is appropriate is just as bad as not using
 a
 table when a table is appropriate.





 On Mon, August 11, 2008 9:31 am, silky wrote:
  On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 6:01 PM, James Jeffery
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  In the past I have tryed to avoid tables as much as possible and
  sometimes
  going as far as using lists for data that should be placed in
 tables.
  I am
  trying to sway away from the 'never use tables' crowd and have
 started
  to
  use them when they need to be used.
 
  I am working on a tattoo website and the client wants a list of
 pricing
  for
  tattoos and peircings. Would you say this is a good candidate for a
  table?
 
  use a table.
 
  those that say 'never use tables' are insane and often think that
  'css' and 'tables' are mutually exclusive. i ignore those people.
 
  tables are perfectly appropriate for this situation.
 
 
  Although 'price list' states list, its not to say that a list should
 be
  used.
 
  Any ideas.
 
  James
 
  --
  silky
  http://www.themonkeynet.com/armada/
  http://www.boxofgoodfeelings.com/
  http://www.themonkeynet.com/
  http://lets.coozi.com.au/
 
 
  ***
  List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
  Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
  Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  ***
 
 




 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




 --
 / Rob Enslin
 / enslin.co.uk
 / twitter.com/robenslin
 / +44759 052 8890

 ***

 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm

Re: [WSG] Re: ARIA

2008-08-10 Thread James Jeffery
Progressive enhancement and accessibility. Hmmm. I am not sure about this, I
thought accessibility was about providing access to websites from all
angles, not progressivly enhancing access to users with more up to date
technology or browsers.

Would it not be better to include ARIA markup in HTML5 rather than trying to
adapt it to the current version of HTML? Don't get me wrong, I love the idea
of ARIA.

It just seems like another quick fix to plug the current problems. I can't
imagine ARIA markup being used all that much anyway (I will use it, but I am
talking about the majority of other developers). One of the reasons is
because the majority of poor developers out there cannot be bothered to
learn anything new and don't give a hoot about accessibility. The state of
the web at the moment in terms of accessibility is poor anyway.

I was speaking with a top PHP developer not so long back. He works for a
company and is on serious money, and even he little idea about accessibility
on the web. I think before we start implementing new ideas we need to inform
the the current and the up and coming developers about accessibility.

Its not my place to say what should and what shouldn't happen on the web,
these are just my views. It kind of reminds me of microformats. A brilliant
idea but underused by developers.

I am just going to carry on learning, and hope that the ARIA reaches its
goals and targets and doesn't get brushed under the carpet.

James

On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 10:01 AM, Laura Carlson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 What about browsers that don't support ARIA markup?


 Graceful degradation (if the page is well written).


 Or progressive enhancement.

 Some references:
 http://www.d.umn.edu/goto/javascript#access

 A good intro to WAI ARIA by Gez Lemon:
 http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/introduction-to-wai-aria/

 Best Regards,
 Laura
 ___
 Laura L. Carlson
 Information Technology Systems and Services
 University of Minnesota Duluth
 Duluth, MN U.S.A. 55812-3009
 http://www.d.umn.edu/goto/webdesign/



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

[WSG] ARIA

2008-08-09 Thread James Jeffery
Never really heard of ARIA until I came across it in a Web Development
magazine (.net mag). I have just spent a few hours getting my head around
it, and whilst I agree it looks useful for screen readers and such, isn't it
less semantic?

Applying attributes that would currently make your markup invalid is
something which I am not happy about. Along with that, using span to
create a checkbox seems less semantic than using form elements.

Is ARIA markup only supposed to be used with browsers who have JS enabled or
sites that use alot of JS for dynamic content? What about browsers that
don't support ARIA markup?

I'm only dipping my feet in the water at the moment so I probably don't
fully understand, but from what I have read so far it seems a bit wishy
washy at the moment.

Any replies appreciated.


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

[WSG] AJAX and Clickable Elements

2008-07-18 Thread James Jeffery
Just a quick question.

I am developing my first Ajax application. It links in with google maps and
will allow users to anonymously plot markers on a map with images.

There will be various clickable items such as: Get All Markers which will
return a list of links to markers plotted in a given area. I am struggling
to decide on what element to use for the clickable element.

If I use an a the href will contain a # and if I use a button I would need
to create a form just to create a button that won't be sending any data,
which seems overkill.

Even though users with Javascript disabled wont be able to use the site, I
don't want to push out standards, I still want to keep everything semantic
and on the right path.

Any Ideas?


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] AJAX and Clickable Elements

2008-07-18 Thread James Jeffery
*Why? Can't you have a sensible fallback (e.g. in case the user middle
clicks to open in a new tab).*

Because the data is going to be loaded into an element within the document
dynamically. There would be no option to open it in a new tab. The loaded
data will allow users to click on links that will take them to the spots on
the map.

The only fallback would be for users who don't have JS enabled, but without
JS enabled the application is useless because it relies on JS to use the
Google Maps API.


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

[WSG] Pop-Ups (BOM)

2008-07-17 Thread James Jeffery
What's your views on Pop-Ups? When I speak in terms of Pop-Ups I am
referring to the alert type Pop-Ups that are a part of the Browser Object
Model and NOT window Pop-Ups. The ones that are considered annoying!

I personally do not think they are annoying when used in the right way.
Google Mail uses them correctly. When you are writing an email and you
decide to close the tab or move to another webpage it will alert you and ask
you if you want to abandon the email you have spent 15 minutes writing and
forgot to save as a draft. In the same way MS Word would ask you if you want
to save an unsaved project. A good thing in my books.

They are probably only best used in Ajax applications in certain situations
when a users attention is needed. We have no problems using them in desktop
applications so why not use them in web applications (I am talking about
applications not web pages).

I am only writing this because I see developers label Pop-Ups as annoying.
Ganted, when used in the wrong way they are annoying, but you abuse anything
(including tables) and it becomes annoying/wrong.

To summarize, what's your views on Pop-Ups


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

[WSG] Browsers and Zooming

2008-07-03 Thread James Jeffery
Are all browsers now using zooming to resize pages?

I noticed FF2 wasn't using zooming but FF3 is and I know IE and Safari
already do it.

Any background information in this?


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Marking Up Poems

2008-06-23 Thread James Jeffery
On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 9:37 AM, Designer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Matijs wrote:

 I have to agree with Elizabeth here. Semantically I'd say that this is one
 of the few occasions where a br/ would be appropriate. The verses would be
 paragraphs of course


I did this a while back on a site for an author. I decided it was the
 best compromise between practicallity, readability and standards.  I gave
 each verse a CSS class called 'stanza'.

See:  http://www.webscribe.fsnet.co.uk/chapters/c3summer.html

Bob
www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk


From all the replies I have read through and from all the articles I have
read up on, this is probably the best solution I came across.

I would wrap the whole poem within a div, then each of the verses in a
paragraph and the lines created using br /.

Anyone against this method? and why?


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

[WSG] Marking Up Poems

2008-06-19 Thread James Jeffery
A question was raised at work today 'How do you mark up a poem'.

I looked into it but found nothing worthy. My original thought was to use
P's and class names, but one article I read said XML is perfect for this
case.

Whats your views on this, anyone actually did it before?


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Marking Up Poems

2008-06-19 Thread James Jeffery
True.

I still think there should be a stanard set of elements to mark up poems
though. Not checked if WG are doing anything in HTML 5 - i think they are.

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Michael Cordover 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I would suggest that this is pre. Poetry is generally so
 display-specific that you couldn't hope to mark it up, I'd say.

 Michael

 On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 19:08, James Jeffery
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  A question was raised at work today 'How do you mark up a poem'.
 
  I looked into it but found nothing worthy. My original thought was to use
  P's and class names, but one article I read said XML is perfect for this
  case.
 
  Whats your views on this, anyone actually did it before?


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Marking Up Poems

2008-06-19 Thread James Jeffery
Just another resource for those interested:
http://signified.com.au/a-poem-element-for-html5/

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 10:53 AM, James Jeffery 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 True.

 I still think there should be a stanard set of elements to mark up poems
 though. Not checked if WG are doing anything in HTML 5 - i think they are.


 On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Michael Cordover 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I would suggest that this is pre. Poetry is generally so
 display-specific that you couldn't hope to mark it up, I'd say.

 Michael

 On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 19:08, James Jeffery
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  A question was raised at work today 'How do you mark up a poem'.
 
  I looked into it but found nothing worthy. My original thought was to
 use
  P's and class names, but one article I read said XML is perfect for this
  case.
 
  Whats your views on this, anyone actually did it before?


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***





***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Marking Up Poems

2008-06-19 Thread James Jeffery
Very good!

But I have to say they all sound the same. Did anyone spot any differences?
I think there may have been a difference in the second one but can't be
sure.

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Jon Tan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 On 19 Jun 2008, at 11:06, Jon Tan wrote:


 On 19 Jun 2008, at 10:08, James Jeffery wrote:

 A question was raised at work today 'How do you mark up a poem'.

 I looked into it but found nothing worthy. My original thought was to use
 P's and class names, but one article I read said XML is perfect for this
 case.


 [snip] It would be interesting to know how alternative browsers handle both
 br /s and single/double line breaks in pre blocks. Do they inject a
 pause or other aural boundary?


 Jon Gibbins (http://dotjay.co.uk) of GAWDS and Accessify forum has kindly
 run some screen reader tests on both p with br / and pre. He's also
 published the actual results as .MP3s:

 http://lab.dotjay.co.uk/tests/screen-readers/poetry/

 Jon
 -
 http://jontangerine.com/


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Duplicate Messages? Help!

2008-06-18 Thread James Jeffery
I believe one of the messages gets sent back to yourself and the other is
sent out to everyone one the list.

In GMail it will group the emails, so you are infact getting 2, but this is
normal.

James

On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Gregorio Espadas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Hi. I realize that every time I send a message to WSG, I get two copies of
 that message in my Gmail Inbox. Does it just me? A bug of Gmail?

 Thanks in advance for the help. Also, I hope this message doesn't botter to
 the members of this excellent group.


 Gregorio Espadas
 http://espadas.com.mx




 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Structuring CSS

2008-06-10 Thread James Jeffery
There really needs to be a consistent method of sturucturing CSS personally.

If i cram everything onto one file I feel like the structure of the website
is not really effective and editing becomes a task. Most the time I will
break up the CSS file into a few sections as standard and use Yahoo!'s reset
stylesheet to reset elements. I am not a fan of framworks and like to invent
my own naming conventions.

CSS Structure
-
- Reset.css (Yahoo!)
- Layout.css (positioning, margins, padding etc.)
- Style.css (colours, borders, backgrounds etc.)
- Typography (fonts)
- Base.css (used to @import everything)

I would like to break it up further but I do respect users on slower
Internet connections. In all the CSS files you are usually repeating
selectors which is generating uneeded code, but on the other hand I have
found it useful and easier to edit.

It's really good for bug hunting because when you need to find a bug thats
messing up the layout, you can focus on a single file (most the time) and
narrow down the scope until the bug is eliminated.

I like the idea of a server-side stylesheet joiner. I am going to look into
that.

Keep the replies coming.


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

[WSG] Structuring CSS

2008-06-09 Thread James Jeffery
Lets have it. How are you guys structuring your CSS files?

I have been having a think about this over the last few days. My research
attempts have failed because most the articles i came across were outdated -
so i tend not to trust them.

One method i thought about (not sure if it's been coined) is one based on
Software Engineering principles, obeying rules such as decoupling et cetera.
Maybe by using these principles modules can be included by importing the
needed CSS file (and path) in the root CSS file.
As i am writing this i am certain CMS systems use this method of structuring
CSS.

I am sick to death of having to over comment my CSS files to find what it is
i'm looking for. I would much rather break up my layout into semantic chunks
and create a seperate CSS file for each chunk (i.e navigation, content,
footer).

I'm guessing this sort of structuring comes at a cost because a number of
requests need to be made to the server.

Regards

James Jeffery


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript

2008-06-07 Thread James Jeffery
Check my examples i posted and my recent posts, they show what i mean. I
think in the case of this design it can work fine without the dropdown menu.

On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 2:09 PM, Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 then you need to be aware at build time that when javascript off, and
 nested navigation is therefore expanded in order to provide equal access to
 features for people without dependence to javascript, the design needs to
 allow for this.
 having the nav overlap content is pretty unnecessary anyway.

 Sorry but bad design, planning and and architecture is not an excuse...

 You could, for example, not have it popout in the first place, negating the
 need to have an alternative solution for others. You could, also, for
 example, only show subnav within a section, negating the need for popouts.
 If your architecture is clear and obvious, and you have plenty of clear
 pointers to the content sections, the popout subnav becomes less necessary.


 On Jun 6 2008, at 16:18, Darren West wrote:

 Joe said:

 Therefore if javascript is off, any descended subnav should display in it's
 expanded state.


 I agree with this pattern for some scenerios, for example with tabbed
 panels, but (depending on the design) surely with drop down navigation
 it would cause usability issues with the expanded states for all drop
 downs overlapping each other and other content


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***


 Joe Ortenzi
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 www.typingthevoid.com
 www.joiz.com




 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript

2008-06-07 Thread James Jeffery
Not really because it cuts into UI design. But i see what you mean, i have
it under control.

On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 7:14 PM, Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Cool design, maybe you could reveal the sublnks onClick? then keep the
 panel open and repopulate with the relevant links as you move over the
 navigation links.

 If you have the time/money in the project, it would be well worth
 doing user testing :-)

 We maybe veering away from the purpose of this mailing list


 2008/6/6 James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  The same image but with the content and withut the dropdown showing:
  http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=standard01qi5.png
 
  I think it might work without the dropdown. I will have to speak to the
  youth centre manager on Wednesday.
 
  James
 
  On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 5:34 PM, James Jeffery
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Here is an example of the NEW idea:
  http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/3992/standard01yo8.png
 
  This has got me thinking though. If there is going to be a sub
 navigation
  part on every page is there really any need for the dropdown?
 
  By adding the dropdown the only benefit the user will get is that they
  don't have to click twice to get to a section/sub page. For example to
  access Maypole Radio they select other services and click. Without it
 they
  would have to click Other Services and select from the static sub
  navigation menu.
 
  I am not sure if its going to be worth it in the end. Obviously the
 static
  sub navigation is going to be amust so that i can cover everything. The
  Suckerfish menu now seems useless in a way. If i leave it there it may
 add
  extra confusion to the navigation of the website. If you get what i
 mean.
 
  Cheers for the input so far.
 
  James
 
  On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 5:07 PM, James Jeffery
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  With the pure CSS version, and using Javascript to take care of IE 5,
 you
  can ensure it will work with browsers with JS disabled. Thats why i
 chose to
  use the Suckerfish style dropdowns. Also you can add some extra
 behvaiour
  ontop of the pure CSS menu's.
 
  I think maybe the best solution would be to display sub link on the sub
  pages. Save all the hassle of using conditionals and stuff. I did think
  about doing it this way at first but then started wondering about user
  experience and possible confusion.
 
  It's always the simple approaches that tend to be the best.
 
  Thanks for your support fellow CSS'ers
 
  On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  wrote:
 
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ]
  On
  Behalf Of James Jeffery
  Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 2:49 AM
  To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
  Subject: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript
 
  Maybe i am being a little bit picky with this.
 
  I have a suckerfish dropdown, as i feel it is the best approach for
  cross-browser (but not A grade) dropdowns. The website i am working on
  is a
  youth centre's. The target audience is the community, which can be
 young
  or
  very old. The very old may be using IE 5 on older computers (at a
  guess).
  If they have JS disabled and are using IE 5 then they cannot view the
  navigation links.
 
  Whats your views on the best way around this?
 
  I was thinking about sing PHP to determine what browser the user is
  using
  and if JS is enabled. If its IE 5 and it is not enabled then when a
 user
  clicks a link from the navigation menu the page will load but under
 the
  navigation will be another div that lists the links uder that sub
  heading.
 
  -
  |   nav   nav   nav  nav  nav  nav  nav |
  -
  
  |   sub link sub link |
  |   sub link sub link |
  |   sub link sub link |
  
  -
  all the other content goes on as normal
 
  Only users who are using a browser that does not support the hover
  psudeo
  selector on anything other than a elements will see that box. It will
 be
  generated using PHP before the page loads.
 
  I was thinking about doing that for all the users, and have that
  displaying
  regardless, but that may add confusion to the user experience i feel.
 
  Anyone ideas?
 
 
  Hi James,
  I have these two:
  http://tjkdesign.com/articles/Pure_CSS_Dropdown_Menus.asp
 
  I believe they are compatible with ie5 Win and Mac
 
  But if you ask me, I'd say the best approach would be to use a good JS
  menu
  rather than a pure CSS solution.
 
  --
  Regards,
  Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  ***
  List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
  Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org

[WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript

2008-06-06 Thread James Jeffery
Maybe i am being a little bit picky with this.

I have a suckerfish dropdown, as i feel it is the best approach for
cross-browser (but not A grade) dropdowns. The website i am working on is a
youth centre's. The target audience is the community, which can be young or
very old. The very old may be using IE 5 on older computers (at a guess).
If they have JS disabled and are using IE 5 then they cannot view the
navigation links.

Whats your views on the best way around this?

I was thinking about sing PHP to determine what browser the user is using
and if JS is enabled. If its IE 5 and it is not enabled then when a user
clicks a link from the navigation menu the page will load but under the
navigation will be another div that lists the links uder that sub heading.

-
|   nav   nav   nav  nav  nav  nav  nav |
-

|   sub link sub link |
|   sub link sub link |
|   sub link sub link |

-
all the other content goes on as normal

Only users who are using a browser that does not support the hover psudeo
selector on anything other than a elements will see that box. It will be
generated using PHP before the page loads.

I was thinking about doing that for all the users, and have that displaying
regardless, but that may add confusion to the user experience i feel.

Anyone ideas?


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Mixing CSS3 and CSS2

2008-06-06 Thread James Jeffery
I am very excited about the audio and video elements in HTML 5. I have
been playing with them for a while. Only browser that seems to support it
... sort of ... is Safari (im using an iMac).

Just means i will have to dedicate a few months of solid learning when HTML
5 and CSS 3 is actually released. HTML 5 will be easy to learn, its just
elements and understanding what they are used for and where to use them.

I am guessing CSS 3 is going to be a bit trickier but not to difficult as i
am already fluent in CSS 2.1.

On 6/6/08, Keryx Web [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Rahul Gonsalves skrev:

 #foo {
  border: 1px solid fuscia;
  -moz-border-radius: 0.5em;
  -webkit-border-radius: 0.5em;
  border-radius: 0.5em;
 }

 This will ensure that browsers like IE6/IE7 only see the first line
 (border...) and draw a straight box around #foo. Slightly smarter browsers
 like Camino/Firefox 2/Safari 2 will get the the engine-specific rules
 (-moz/-webkit) and all CSS3-supporting browsers (Safari3, Firefox3, IE8(?)
 etc) get the last line and give you a pretty rounded corner.



 Good advice, but a bit optimistic about the implementations.

 Firefox 3.0 does not support border-radius, perhaps in Firefox 3.1. [1].
 There are still at least one unsettled issue in the spec (proposed soultion
 in editors draft).[2] However, unsolved implementation issues when combined
 with gradients and non-solid borders, seem to be fixed from in FFox 3.[3]

 Safari 3.1 does not support border-radius without the -webkit prefix.

 Here is a nice test from webkit's bugzilla (using prefixes for both webkit
 and moz): https://bugs.webkit.org/attachment.cgi?id=8633

 Try it in both FFox 3 and Safari 3.1 and you'll see some inconsistencies.
 Enough to drive a designer crazy.

 Both Webkit and Gecko use the Cairo library (except on Mac OS), so their
 rendering will probably be very close to each other in the future.

 MSIE 8 is supposed to get full CSS 2.1 support. CSS 3 is not really on the
 table, according to the announcements. Now that a lot of modules have moved
 much closer to REC-status the pressure to implement them is of course
 higher.

 There is a a ton of goodness coming up in FFox 3, including full support
 for CSS 3 selectors, media queries, HTML 5 audio and video, etc. I am
 actually looking more forward to 3.1 than 3.0 as a developer. (But I can't
 live without the awesomebar, so as a user 3.0 is great...)

 Lars Gunther


 1. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=431176
 2. http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-background/#the-border-radius
 3. Compare this page in FFox 2 and FFox 3:
 http://ne.keryx.se/cssdemo/testa_css3.php
 4.
 http://www.css3.info/firefox-31-is-the-latest-to-pass-our-selectors-test/
 (See also D Glazmans test: Six errors in Safari 3.1, one in FFox 3.1
 version of Minefield, **zero** in Opera 9.5 beta, build 10048. I have not
 tested nightly Webkit.)


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript

2008-06-06 Thread James Jeffery
No i havn't herd of prog. enhancement.

See you do learn something new everyday.

Thanks.


On 6/6/08, Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 James,

 Have you heard of progressive enhancement?

 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Enhancement

 I would link all the 'nav' items to root pages that include the sub
 links so if JS is unavailable a usable experience is provided for all,
 then if JS is available, enhance the experience by displaying the 'sub
 links' in a dropdown ...


 Darren


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript

2008-06-06 Thread James Jeffery
With the pure CSS version, and using Javascript to take care of IE 5, you
can ensure it will work with browsers with JS disabled. Thats why i chose to
use the Suckerfish style dropdowns. Also you can add some extra behvaiour
ontop of the pure CSS menu's.

I think maybe the best solution would be to display sub link on the sub
pages. Save all the hassle of using conditionals and stuff. I did think
about doing it this way at first but then started wondering about user
experience and possible confusion.

It's always the simple approaches that tend to be the best.

Thanks for your support fellow CSS'ers

On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of James Jeffery
 Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 2:49 AM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript

 Maybe i am being a little bit picky with this.

 I have a suckerfish dropdown, as i feel it is the best approach for
 cross-browser (but not A grade) dropdowns. The website i am working on is a
 youth centre's. The target audience is the community, which can be young or
 very old. The very old may be using IE 5 on older computers (at a guess).
 If they have JS disabled and are using IE 5 then they cannot view the
 navigation links.

 Whats your views on the best way around this?

 I was thinking about sing PHP to determine what browser the user is using
 and if JS is enabled. If its IE 5 and it is not enabled then when a user
 clicks a link from the navigation menu the page will load but under the
 navigation will be another div that lists the links uder that sub heading.

 -
 |   nav   nav   nav  nav  nav  nav  nav |
 -
 
 |   sub link sub link |
 |   sub link sub link |
 |   sub link sub link |
 
 -
 all the other content goes on as normal

 Only users who are using a browser that does not support the hover psudeo
 selector on anything other than a elements will see that box. It will be
 generated using PHP before the page loads.

 I was thinking about doing that for all the users, and have that displaying
 regardless, but that may add confusion to the user experience i feel.

 Anyone ideas?


 Hi James,
 I have these two:
 http://tjkdesign.com/articles/Pure_CSS_Dropdown_Menus.asp

 I believe they are compatible with ie5 Win and Mac

 But if you ask me, I'd say the best approach would be to use a good JS menu
 rather than a pure CSS solution.

 --
 Regards,
 Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com








 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript

2008-06-06 Thread James Jeffery
Here is an example of the NEW idea:
http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/3992/standard01yo8.png

This has got me thinking though. If there is going to be a sub navigation
part on every page is there really any need for the dropdown?

By adding the dropdown the only benefit the user will get is that they don't
have to click twice to get to a section/sub page. For example to access
Maypole Radio they select other services and click. Without it they would
have to click Other Services and select from the static sub navigation
menu.

I am not sure if its going to be worth it in the end. Obviously the static
sub navigation is going to be amust so that i can cover everything. The
Suckerfish menu now seems useless in a way. If i leave it there it may add
extra confusion to the navigation of the website. If you get what i mean.

Cheers for the input so far.

James

On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 5:07 PM, James Jeffery 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 With the pure CSS version, and using Javascript to take care of IE 5, you
 can ensure it will work with browsers with JS disabled. Thats why i chose to
 use the Suckerfish style dropdowns. Also you can add some extra behvaiour
 ontop of the pure CSS menu's.

 I think maybe the best solution would be to display sub link on the sub
 pages. Save all the hassle of using conditionals and stuff. I did think
 about doing it this way at first but then started wondering about user
 experience and possible confusion.

 It's always the simple approaches that tend to be the best.

 Thanks for your support fellow CSS'ers

 On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of James Jeffery
 Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 2:49 AM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript

 Maybe i am being a little bit picky with this.

 I have a suckerfish dropdown, as i feel it is the best approach for
 cross-browser (but not A grade) dropdowns. The website i am working on is
 a
 youth centre's. The target audience is the community, which can be young
 or
 very old. The very old may be using IE 5 on older computers (at a
 guess).
 If they have JS disabled and are using IE 5 then they cannot view the
 navigation links.

 Whats your views on the best way around this?

 I was thinking about sing PHP to determine what browser the user is using
 and if JS is enabled. If its IE 5 and it is not enabled then when a user
 clicks a link from the navigation menu the page will load but under the
 navigation will be another div that lists the links uder that sub heading.

 -
 |   nav   nav   nav  nav  nav  nav  nav |
 -
 
 |   sub link sub link |
 |   sub link sub link |
 |   sub link sub link |
 
 -
 all the other content goes on as normal

 Only users who are using a browser that does not support the hover psudeo
 selector on anything other than a elements will see that box. It will be
 generated using PHP before the page loads.

 I was thinking about doing that for all the users, and have that
 displaying
 regardless, but that may add confusion to the user experience i feel.

 Anyone ideas?


 Hi James,
 I have these two:
 http://tjkdesign.com/articles/Pure_CSS_Dropdown_Menus.asp

 I believe they are compatible with ie5 Win and Mac

 But if you ask me, I'd say the best approach would be to use a good JS
 menu
 rather than a pure CSS solution.

 --
 Regards,
 Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com








 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript

2008-06-06 Thread James Jeffery
The same image but with the content and withut the dropdown showing:
http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=standard01qi5.png

I think it might work without the dropdown. I will have to speak to the
youth centre manager on Wednesday.

James

On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 5:34 PM, James Jeffery 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Here is an example of the NEW idea:
 http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/3992/standard01yo8.png

 This has got me thinking though. If there is going to be a sub navigation
 part on every page is there really any need for the dropdown?

 By adding the dropdown the only benefit the user will get is that they
 don't have to click twice to get to a section/sub page. For example to
 access Maypole Radio they select other services and click. Without it they
 would have to click Other Services and select from the static sub
 navigation menu.

 I am not sure if its going to be worth it in the end. Obviously the static
 sub navigation is going to be amust so that i can cover everything. The
 Suckerfish menu now seems useless in a way. If i leave it there it may add
 extra confusion to the navigation of the website. If you get what i mean.

 Cheers for the input so far.

 James

 On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 5:07 PM, James Jeffery 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 With the pure CSS version, and using Javascript to take care of IE 5, you
 can ensure it will work with browsers with JS disabled. Thats why i chose to
 use the Suckerfish style dropdowns. Also you can add some extra behvaiour
 ontop of the pure CSS menu's.

 I think maybe the best solution would be to display sub link on the sub
 pages. Save all the hassle of using conditionals and stuff. I did think
 about doing it this way at first but then started wondering about user
 experience and possible confusion.

 It's always the simple approaches that tend to be the best.

 Thanks for your support fellow CSS'ers

 On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On
 Behalf Of James Jeffery
 Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 2:49 AM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript

 Maybe i am being a little bit picky with this.

 I have a suckerfish dropdown, as i feel it is the best approach for
 cross-browser (but not A grade) dropdowns. The website i am working on is
 a
 youth centre's. The target audience is the community, which can be young
 or
 very old. The very old may be using IE 5 on older computers (at a
 guess).
 If they have JS disabled and are using IE 5 then they cannot view the
 navigation links.

 Whats your views on the best way around this?

 I was thinking about sing PHP to determine what browser the user is using
 and if JS is enabled. If its IE 5 and it is not enabled then when a user
 clicks a link from the navigation menu the page will load but under the
 navigation will be another div that lists the links uder that sub
 heading.

 -
 |   nav   nav   nav  nav  nav  nav  nav |
 -
 
 |   sub link sub link |
 |   sub link sub link |
 |   sub link sub link |
 
 -
 all the other content goes on as normal

 Only users who are using a browser that does not support the hover psudeo
 selector on anything other than a elements will see that box. It will be
 generated using PHP before the page loads.

 I was thinking about doing that for all the users, and have that
 displaying
 regardless, but that may add confusion to the user experience i feel.

 Anyone ideas?


 Hi James,
 I have these two:
 http://tjkdesign.com/articles/Pure_CSS_Dropdown_Menus.asp

 I believe they are compatible with ie5 Win and Mac

 But if you ask me, I'd say the best approach would be to use a good JS
 menu
 rather than a pure CSS solution.

 --
 Regards,
 Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com








 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: [WSG] Mixing CSS3 and CSS2

2008-05-31 Thread James Jeffery
I see.

If i place the CSS3 background property before the CSS2 background property,
will the CSS3 declaration win over the CSS2 one if browsers support CSS3 and
if not, then the CSS2 declaration will be used?

Thanks

On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 6:38 AM, David Dorward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 On 30 May 2008, at 23:30, James Jeffery wrote:

  I want to use CSS3 to create rounded corners but provide CSS2 markup for
 browsers that don't support it.

 Whats the best way to go about this? Taking a guess i would say use a CSS3
 specific selector, so browsers that understand the selector will understand
 the code, those that don't won't.


 No, since support for rounded corners and support for CSS 3 selectors do
 not come hand in hand. Just use the property as normal, browsers that don't
 support it will ignore it.

 --
 David Dorward
 http://dorward.me.uk/
 http://blog.dorward.me.uk/





 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

[WSG] Margin or Float error?

2008-05-30 Thread James Jeffery
Call me dumb but i am really stumped on this.

If you look through my source you will see i have added a transparent border
to the bottom of #main-navigation and #welcome. Without adding the border
the margins added to ul#article-summary-list (top margin) and the
#main-navigation (bottom margin) are not affected. Im on my new iMac (he he)
using firefox.

Stumped. Here is the source. Copy and paste it as its bare bones anyway:

---
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN 
http://w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd;
html lang=en

head
titleMaypole Youth Centre/title

style type=text/css

/* Globals */
html * {margin: 0; padding: 0;}

body
{
/* 62.5% works out to about 10px, which is good for
sizing things up. 16px/100 x 62.5 = 10 */
font: normal normal 62.5%/1.5 Arial, sans-serif;
width: 80em;
margin: 0 auto;
}

ul {list-style: none;}

/** Layout and Sizing **/
#main-navigation
{
margin: 4em 0;

/* Note: Not sure if this is a fix, but it worked. Scope
out an alternative method ... If one exists.

Problem: Needed to apply overflow:hidden; to this element
but was not possible because of the way i did the dropdown
menu, if i added the O.F it would have hidden the content
from the sub menu dropdown.
Without any fix the H1 (used for testing) was not affected
by the top and bottom margin values that are set above. */
border: 1px solid transparent;
}

#main-navigation li
{
position: relative;
float: left;
width: 13.3em;
height: 2em;
}

#main-navigation li a
{
display: block;
}

#sub-navigation
{
position: absolute;
top: 2em;
left: 0;
}

#main-content
{
overflow: hidden;
}

#welcome
{
float: left;
width: 40%;
border-bottom: 1px solid transparent;
}

#youtube-video-list
{
float: right;
width: 60%;
}

ul#article-summary-list
{
margin-top: 200px;
clear: both;
position: relative;
}

.article-summary
{

}

/* When the menu isn't in use hide the sub menu's */
.sub-navigation
{
display: none;
}

/* When the user hovers over a superlink, display
the list of sublinks.
Note: Needs to be tested in older browsers. Not
sure off hand if :hover works on list elements in
IE5.5 and IE6. */
#main-navigation li:hover ul
{
display: block;
}

/** Style, color and text **/
#main-navigation li
{
text-align: center;
}

/style

/head

body

!-- Navigation Block :: Appears at the top of the page  !--
ul id=main-navigation
li id=firsta href=#Homepage/a/li
lia href=#About Us/a
ul class=sub-navigation
lia href=#The MPC/a/li
lia href=#The Staff/a/li
lia href=#In The Press/a/li
/ul
/li
lia href=#Projects/a
ul class=sub-navigation
lia href=#Adventures/a/li
lia href=#Cycling/a/li
lia href=#Detached Work/a/li
lia href=#Action Group/a/li
lia href=#MYFC/a/li
lia href=#Saturday Club/a/li
/ul
/li
lia href=#Community Boards/a/li
lia href=#Other Services/a
ul class=sub-navigation
lia href=#Maypole Juniors/a/li
lia href=#Studio Practice/a/li
/ul
/li
li id=lasta href=#Contact Us/a/li
/ul
!-- Navigation Block End !--

!-- Main Content Area !--
div id=main-content
div id=welcome
h1Welcome to the Maypole Centre/h1
pThe Maypole Centre has been providing the young people of
Maypole and Druids Heath with
educational services and projects to inspire and develop.
Our aim is to tackle drugs and
crime through education and learning. The key is giving
young people hope, prospects and a
potential future./p
pPete Norman, spanYouth Centre Manager/span/p
/div

div id=youtube-video-list
h2YouTube Video List (Eventually)/h2
/div

ul id=article-summary-list
li class=article-summary

Re: [WSG] Margin or Float error?

2008-05-30 Thread James Jeffery
Thanks for the fix.

Is this a known bug then? If so whats the bug called?

On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:54 PM, Kepler Gelotte 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Hi James,



 You may want to try this instead:



 style type=text/css



 /* Globals */

 html * {margin: 0; padding: 0;}



 body

 {

 /* 62.5% works out to about 10px, which is good for

 sizing things up. 16px/100 x 62.5 = 10 */

 font: normal normal 62.5%/1.5 Arial, sans-serif;

 width: 80em;

 margin: 0 auto;

 }



 ul {list-style: none;}



 /** Layout and Sizing **/

 #main-navigation

 {

 height: 1%;

 margin: 4em 0;

 }



 #main-navigation li

 {

 position: relative;

 float: left;

 width: 13.3em;

 height: 2em;

 }



 #main-navigation li a

 {

 display: block;

 }



 #sub-navigation

 {

 position: absolute;

 top: 2em;

 left: 0;

 }



 #main-content

 {

 overflow: hidden;

 }



 #welcome

 {

 float: left;

 width: 40%;

 }



 #youtube-video-list

 {

 float: right;

 width: 60%;

 }



 ul#article-summary-list

 {

 clear: both;

 float: left;

 width: 100%;

 margin-top: 20px;

 }



 .article-summary

 {



 }



 /* When the menu isn't in use hide the sub menu's */

 .sub-navigation

 {

 display: none;

 }



 /* When the user hovers over a superlink, display

 the list of sublinks.

 Note: Needs to be tested in older browsers. Not

 sure off hand if :hover works on list elements in

 IE5.5 and IE6. */

 #main-navigation li:hover ul

 {

 display: block;

 }



 /** Style, color and text **/

 #main-navigation li

 {

 text-align: center;

 }



 /style





 Best regards,

 *Kepler Gelotte*

 Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.

 156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854

 www.neighborwebmaster.com

 phone/fax: (732) 302-0904



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] AJAX short courses london

2008-05-30 Thread James Jeffery
Only problem with the Lynda.com DVDs is sometimes they can be outdated.

Although, this one is £50 and looks good. I might actually buy this, i like
watching the movies when in bed.

http://movielibrary.lynda.com/html/modPage.asp?ID=480

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 9:51 PM, Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I agree.
 I have rarely seen any course in web technologies that you couldn't get
 further for much less money with either a video tutorial from places like
 lynda.com or from good how to books from great publishers like new riders,
 friends of ed, o'reilleys, etc.

 you can study at your own pace, replay and review difficult bits, skip over
 others, and the resource stays with you..


 On May 27 2008, at 05:28, Jennie K wrote:

 If you are not after accreditation try this website www.lynda.com - it's
 all online and you study at your own pace.  I've recommended the training to
 numerous people and they have all said it is of good quality.  You can try
 some of the free courses before  committing - there are also books and cds
 if you don't like the online version.

 On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 11:20 PM, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 Hi all,

 I hope this is on topic. I'm trying to find a short course on AJAX in
 london and having troubles finding one that is of a reasonable price
 (IE- less than £300 for a half day). Could anyone recommend me one or
 possibly a good school to look into?

 Thanks for any help,
 Paul


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***


 Joe Ortenzi
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 www.typingthevoid.com
 www.joiz.com




 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***


[WSG] Mixing CSS3 and CSS2

2008-05-30 Thread James Jeffery
I want to use CSS3 to create rounded corners but provide CSS2 markup for
browsers that don't support it.

Whats the best way to go about this? Taking a guess i would say use a CSS3
specific selector, so browsers that understand the selector will understand
the code, those that don't won't.

But then comes the question. Should the CSS3 come before the CSS2?

Advice please.


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] My Website query

2008-05-23 Thread James Jeffery
If i remember right, Marvin is blind. If this is correct i am amazed that
you managed to produce a website and think that is worth meritt for
starters.

Marvin i will email you off list regarding an article i would like to write
including some of your work.


On 5/23/08, Jason Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi Marvin,

 Your website has some major design issues that you should probably address.
 For starters, your background wallpaper really reduces legibility, and the
 dark green doesn't show up very well against the black. Also, all of your
 navigation links are illegible at their current font size, I have to
 increase the font size at least 3 times before the navigation becomes
 remotely legible (this is probably because you're using percentages, and at
 values less than 100%). Consider using em, px, or pt values instead of
 percentages - if you do use percentages, consider 100% you're base value and
 only go higher for larger text (ie, 120%, 140%, 160%, etc).

 There are also some copyright issues with your site in that you're using
 some images like the Ford logo and a Star Trek wallpaper likely without
 permission and without copyright or trademark indications. Be very careful
 about just taking images from other websites and using them as your own.

 You might also want to develop some content for your website before you
 make it live. There doesn't seem to much there.

 Cheers,
 Jason

 On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Marvin Hunkin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 Hi.
 1. well, need to download the ati radian display drivers for this Del
 Latitude laptop.
 so that is why jaws not reading properly.
 2. now, could you take a look at my site, and let me know, how to
 increase the font, or maybe change it from percentage font size to
 actual font point size.
  if you have any vision, or maybe ask some sighted colleagues or
 friends, what sizes, for all elements on the page do i need to change
 it to?  maybe you have some web designers, you know.
  if i download jaws 9.1, what performance would i get out of this
 upgrade?  any use to download and install this one?
 3. now, was wondering, could you take a look at my 80s history page.
 if my parents stumbled on to it, might get the fourth degree.  so can
 you take a look at the content, and maybe suggest, how i could maybe
 tone down the information, or tone down the way the text is written to
 be more appealing to those reading it, and maybe even be a bit more
 conservative.
 4. now, looking for some accessability tools to check to see if my
 pages pass all vallidation, for people with all sorts of disabilities,
 like colour blind, colour dependent, flickering, and passes all
 vallidation via w3c, and also section 508. can you suggest some tools,
 and also, to check for correct colour, broken links, and maybe off
 line, as not always on the net, so i could download and run andcheck
 off line, as editing off line at the moment.   if you can help, or
 pass on my message maybe to some of those that you do know, that could
 help, let me know asap.
 5.  Now, when i read using the paragraph mode, when i go to my
 headings and list of links, the navigation and the  Other links, read
 all in one list, but on the Star Trek Links , they read one at a time
 using paragraph mode.  How can i get all the links to read the same on
 the page?
 cheers Marvin.


 --
 http://startrekcafe.stevesdomain.net/
 http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/JawsOz/


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] AJAX short courses london

2008-05-23 Thread James Jeffery
Paul,

For £100 you can get a selection of books that would teach the basics and go
beyond a short course. You can also purchase a DVD package for around $200
(try CBT Nuggets). If you buy DVDs ensure they are up to date.

James

On 5/22/08, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi all,

 I hope this is on topic. I'm trying to find a short course on AJAX in
 london and having troubles finding one that is of a reasonable price
 (IE- less than £300 for a half day). Could anyone recommend me one or
 possibly a good school to look into?

 Thanks for any help,
 Paul


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***


Re: [WSG] AJAX short courses london

2008-05-23 Thread James Jeffery
Oh, and the Internet has tons of free places to learn.

Join an IRC channel, thats where the Guru's live.


On 5/22/08, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi all,

 I hope this is on topic. I'm trying to find a short course on AJAX in
 london and having troubles finding one that is of a reasonable price
 (IE- less than £300 for a half day). Could anyone recommend me one or
 possibly a good school to look into?

 Thanks for any help,
 Paul


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***


Re: [WSG] PHP Standards

2008-05-20 Thread James Jeffery
There are a number of ways to get tasks done on the intnernet. Some hard
core programmers would use plain old C and CGI.

As for PHP Standards, follow the manual and best practices. Get a book on
design patterns, especially the one by the Gang Of Four, as these patterns
can crossover to the majority of programming languages.

There are also plenty of MVC (Model-View-Controller) frameworks such as
cakePHP and Symphony.


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Embed a flash file 100%

2008-05-12 Thread James Jeffery
I had a quick peek but im having problems with this browser at college so i
can't help until i get home

Nice site btw.

On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 5:49 PM, Laert Jansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hey, thanks a lot. Here´s what I´m working on
 http://www.laertjansen.com/zecafreitas/

 Would you mind to take a look? :) I have a problem. The flash is the black
 portion only and it should be at the top...I mean, there should not exist
 that white area.any ideia of what am I doing wrong?

 thanks a lot

 On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 4:11 PM, James Jeffery 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  SWFObject is currently the best way to go about embedding flash.
 
  On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Michael Persson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  wrote:
 
  
   Hi Laert,
  
   have a look at www.staff-jeans.com where I have a full flash site wit
   ha
   full flash independent on the screen size...
  
   Michael
  
  
Hello everyone.
   
well, I´d like to know what´s the right way to embed a flash file
   into the
html without tables. The flash file is 100% width and height.
   
Thanks a lot
   
Laert
   
--
Laert Jansen
www.laertjansen.com
   
   
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***
   
  
  
  
  
   ***
   List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
   Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
   Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   ***
  
  
 
  ***
  List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
  Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
  Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  ***
 



 --
 Laert Jansen
 www.laertjansen.com

 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***


Re: [WSG] Embed a flash file 100%

2008-05-10 Thread James Jeffery
SWFObject is currently the best way to go about embedding flash.

On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Michael Persson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Hi Laert,

 have a look at www.staff-jeans.com where I have a full flash site wit ha
 full flash independent on the screen size...

 Michael


  Hello everyone.
 
  well, I´d like to know what´s the right way to embed a flash file into
 the
  html without tables. The flash file is 100% width and height.
 
  Thanks a lot
 
  Laert
 
  --
  Laert Jansen
  www.laertjansen.com
 
 
  ***
  List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
  Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
  Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  ***
 




 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***


[WSG] YouTube API

2008-04-30 Thread James Jeffery
Morning all,

Not really used the API much, but im digging into it. I was thinking, would
it be worth setting up a .php library (and maybe a .js), object-orientated
obviously.

For example, someone wanting to get a list of video's from a users account
can do something like:

$yt-usr-list = new userUploads(VIDEO_ID);
$yt-usr-list-getList(25, DESC);

Which would list a list of 25 videos, with names and links in descending
order.

I'm open to comments on this. I feel it could benefit developers and nobody
has yet done it. The library could also include functions that are not
included in
the YouTube API, which would require alot of hard work!

I have set up the blog, so if anyone wants to post a comment off-list, get
involved or check on planning development: www.ytphplib.blogspot.com .

Throw em' at me.

(something like this may already exists, i couldn't find anything)


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] YouTube API

2008-04-30 Thread James Jeffery
VIDEO_ID should be USER_ID

My bad ... just woke up with my little idea :P

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:03 PM, James Jeffery 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Morning all,

 Not really used the API much, but im digging into it. I was thinking, would
 it be worth setting up a .php library (and maybe a .js), object-orientated
 obviously.

 For example, someone wanting to get a list of video's from a users account
 can do something like:

 $yt-usr-list = new userUploads(VIDEO_ID);
 $yt-usr-list-getList(25, DESC);

 Which would list a list of 25 videos, with names and links in descending
 order.

 I'm open to comments on this. I feel it could benefit developers and nobody
 has yet done it. The library could also include functions that are not
 included in
 the YouTube API, which would require alot of hard work!

 I have set up the blog, so if anyone wants to post a comment off-list, get
 involved or check on planning development: www.ytphplib.blogspot.com .

 Throw em' at me.

 (something like this may already exists, i couldn't find anything)

 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] JS Image Slider

2008-04-30 Thread James Jeffery
Yeah i understand that, i agree totally.

One member said create a scrolling block with CSS for users that have JS
disabled. I said that wouldn't be ideal. I only want to serve up large
quanitites of images to users that have JS enabled. If i server up large
quantities when JS isn't enabled then that means users who also have CSS
disabled would get a large list of images. Could cause problems.

I would rather serve up 3 images in the block and use JS (and DOM) to add
more images and provide the scroll feature. If JS is disabled, only 3
'recent upload' images get displayed.

But saying that there could be the case when a user has JS enabled and not
CSS, which would still display the long list of images.

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:10 PM, Joseph Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 An example? Text-only browsers. No visual styles!

 However, a list of images is exactly what you're serving to the visitor,
 right?

 Ugly, yes.  Semantically correct? Quite.

 Furthermore, I'm willing to bet that plenty of text-only users frequently
 encounter lists of images and wouldn't be thrown off by it.

 Joseph R. B. Taylor
 /Designer / Developer/
 --
 Sites by Joe, LLC
 /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
 Phone: (609) 335-3076
 Fax: (866) 301-8045
 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]




 Andrew Freedman wrote:

 James Jeffery provided the following information on 30/04/2008 12:27 AM:

 that will mean that users without CSS will get a bunch of images in a
 list


 You have users that block CSS??

 I have never come across that.  Can you give an instance as to where and
 why you would cater for these visitors?

 Thanks.
 Andrew


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] JS Image Slider

2008-04-30 Thread James Jeffery
Hi Andrew

Dont worry im not considering those rare users :P


On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Andrew Maben [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:


 On Apr 30, 2008, at 7:17 AM, James Jeffery wrote:

 could be the case when a user has JS enabled and not CSS


 I'm having a hard time picturing the circumstances that would prompt a user
 to choose this option - surely, if such a case does indeed exist, it must
 rare as ... (pick your cliche).

 Maximising accessibility is a worthy goal, but surely there comes a point
 where the benefit to one audience segment is outweighed by the harm to
 another segment when a feature is disabled. If I were you I wouldn't let
 your concern for this case hold you back from what looks to me like a very
 elegant solution - one that I'm fairly sure I'm going to find myself
 imitating sooner than later, so thanks in advance!

 Andrew






 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] IE8 beta's a nightmare

2008-04-29 Thread James Jeffery
Microsoft should save themselves all the hassle and use the Geko engine.
There IE still gets shipped with
every version of Windows.

They have created a nice operating system for general users and by changing
their engine to an open source
one is not going to decrease sales in their O/S.

This isn't the end of the IE bugs. I can put my house on it there will be
more to come.

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:04 AM, Sam Sherlock [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 looks like another quagmire is about to open up;

 funny how I still feel that I am getting over ie6

 2008/4/29 Dave Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Don't fix or change anything in your site to be compatible with a beta
 version.

 The beta version is available so that developers can report problems to
 Microsoft so that any bugs can be fixed for the final release. By changing
 your code now, you're likely to find that you'll need to change it again
 when the final release of IE8 is made available.

 If you're already getting a significant number of IE8 users (which is
 probably unlikely) then do as Rahul suggests and use the meta tag to force
 IE7 rendering mode.

 Hope that helps?

 Dave
 --
 http://www.dave-woods.co.uk



 2008/4/29 Rahul Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 On 29-Apr-08, at 12:40 PM, Jens-Uwe Korff wrote:

  we just did some testing of our sites in IE8 beta and got some ahhhs and
 ohhhs - not because of its standard compliance, rather because all sites
 seem to be broken: logos disappeared, elements misplaced, Google maps
 blown up, etc.


 Dare I say:
 meta http-equiv=X-UA-Compatible content=IE=7 /

 Does that not give you enough time to fix the issues with the new layout
 engine and then remove it/set it to content=IE=8?

 Or have I misunderstood how IE works? I frequently do.

 Best,
  - Rahul.



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] IE8 beta's a nightmare

2008-04-29 Thread James Jeffery
Ha Ha, i like name inferior explorer. Maybe someone should set up the domain
name and allow people to comment on I.E for MS to see.

I've said it many times, MS try to outdo the competition and invent their
own mad functions and methods of doing things. You have Mozilla
that are promoting a standard and you have MS who are following (to some
extent) the standard and also inventing their own.

What developer on this planet is going to take advantage of a feature thats
been put into IE and not Mozilla, or any other browser engine for
that matter. Thats like giving one user one thing and another user another.

They are going to slice their own heads off.

I hate to get into the Unix vs. Windows debate but for reasons like this and
others related to MS inventing their own standards, Linux will
eventually take over. Didn't MS try to invent their own version of XML, or
something like that? I remember seeing a petition in college about
it.




On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:35 AM, Sam Sherlock [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Ideas stuff and various work right off the bat with ff and opera tweaking
 ie can go on for weeks and often requires loads of compromises

 the list of issues with ie browsers hurts my noggin

 I can't see m$ using geko though (it would be admitting the competition is
 better) I wish they would, shame it would be better for everyone


 should be forever reffered to as inferior explorer :)
 - S

 2008/4/29 James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Microsoft should save themselves all the hassle and use the Geko engine.
 There IE still gets shipped with
 every version of Windows.

 They have created a nice operating system for general users and by
 changing their engine to an open source
 one is not going to decrease sales in their O/S.

 This isn't the end of the IE bugs. I can put my house on it there will be
 more to come.

 On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:04 AM, Sam Sherlock [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 looks like another quagmire is about to open up;

 funny how I still feel that I am getting over ie6

 2008/4/29 Dave Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Don't fix or change anything in your site to be compatible with a beta
 version.

 The beta version is available so that developers can report problems to
 Microsoft so that any bugs can be fixed for the final release. By changing
 your code now, you're likely to find that you'll need to change it again
 when the final release of IE8 is made available.

 If you're already getting a significant number of IE8 users (which is
 probably unlikely) then do as Rahul suggests and use the meta tag to force
 IE7 rendering mode.

 Hope that helps?

 Dave
 --
 http://www.dave-woods.co.uk



 2008/4/29 Rahul Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 On 29-Apr-08, at 12:40 PM, Jens-Uwe Korff wrote:

  we just did some testing of our sites in IE8 beta and got some ahhhs
 and
 ohhhs - not because of its standard compliance, rather because all
 sites
 seem to be broken: logos disappeared, elements misplaced, Google maps
 blown up, etc.


 Dare I say:
 meta http-equiv=X-UA-Compatible content=IE=7 /

 Does that not give you enough time to fix the issues with the new
 layout engine and then remove it/set it to content=IE=8?

 Or have I misunderstood how IE works? I frequently do.

 Best,
  - Rahul.



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

[WSG] JS Image Slider

2008-04-29 Thread James Jeffery
Im looking on creating an image slider. Basically a 400px x 200px box that
you can slide along and reveal more images. They will hold the 'latest'
image uploads. Each slide will have about 4-5 images, you scoll accross and
you view more.

I want to do this so that users without Javascript enabled can still see the
images. Would it be best to create the box and to start with display the
first 4-5 images and if JS is disabled then they get the first few. The
images are selected at random from the new galleries.

If the user has JS enabled then they can view all the images. There will be
a limit of 15 images in the slider box. I can load the images into an array
using PHP and then use JS to extract the images that wouldn't get displayed
if the user has JS disabled.

Anyone got any views on it? I was looking at the Yahoo Design Pattern for a
similar thing.


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] JS Image Slider

2008-04-29 Thread James Jeffery
I considered the using CSS to recreate the effect for users without
Javascript enabled, but if i use CSS that will mean that users without CSS
will get a bunch of images in a list, which may not be relevant to them. Im
assuming (only assuming) that the majority of visitors that will visit the
site with CSS disabled are on a screen reader, so these images won't be
needed by them.

Its for a youth centre, so i have to keep that in mind you see.

Thanks for the advice.

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 3:07 PM, Joseph Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The non-js version could also hold all the images and the css overflow
 property could be used to force a little scroll bar to scroll through them,
 almost re-creating the effect your going for.

 JS would step in to improve...  What your saying is fine too.

 Joseph R. B. Taylor
 /Designer / Developer/
 --
 Sites by Joe, LLC
 /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
 Phone: (609) 335-3076
 Fax: (866) 301-8045
 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]




 James Jeffery wrote:

 Im looking on creating an image slider. Basically a 400px x 200px box that
 you can slide along and reveal more images. They will hold the 'latest'
 image uploads. Each slide will have about 4-5 images, you scoll accross and
 you view more.

 I want to do this so that users without Javascript enabled can still see
 the images. Would it be best to create the box and to start with display the
 first 4-5 images and if JS is disabled then they get the first few. The
 images are selected at random from the new galleries.

 If the user has JS enabled then they can view all the images. There will
 be a limit of 15 images in the slider box. I can load the images into an
 array using PHP and then use JS to extract the images that wouldn't get
 displayed if the user has JS disabled.

 Anyone got any views on it? I was looking at the Yahoo Design Pattern for
 a similar thing.



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] JS Image Slider

2008-04-29 Thread James Jeffery
Here is an image of what i mean for everyone else. I have quickly knocked up
a youtube box and placed it where it will go on the site.

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3558/newmcvm5.png

Theres actually on 3 images per slide.

Thanks

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 3:27 PM, James Jeffery 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I considered the using CSS to recreate the effect for users without
 Javascript enabled, but if i use CSS that will mean that users without CSS
 will get a bunch of images in a list, which may not be relevant to them. Im
 assuming (only assuming) that the majority of visitors that will visit the
 site with CSS disabled are on a screen reader, so these images won't be
 needed by them.

 Its for a youth centre, so i have to keep that in mind you see.

 Thanks for the advice.


 On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 3:07 PM, Joseph Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The non-js version could also hold all the images and the css overflow
 property could be used to force a little scroll bar to scroll through them,
 almost re-creating the effect your going for.

 JS would step in to improve...  What your saying is fine too.

 Joseph R. B. Taylor
 /Designer / Developer/
 --
 Sites by Joe, LLC
 /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
 Phone: (609) 335-3076
 Fax: (866) 301-8045
 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]




 James Jeffery wrote:

 Im looking on creating an image slider. Basically a 400px x 200px box
 that you can slide along and reveal more images. They will hold the 'latest'
 image uploads. Each slide will have about 4-5 images, you scoll accross and
 you view more.

 I want to do this so that users without Javascript enabled can still see
 the images. Would it be best to create the box and to start with display the
 first 4-5 images and if JS is disabled then they get the first few. The
 images are selected at random from the new galleries.

 If the user has JS enabled then they can view all the images. There will
 be a limit of 15 images in the slider box. I can load the images into an
 array using PHP and then use JS to extract the images that wouldn't get
 displayed if the user has JS disabled.

 Anyone got any views on it? I was looking at the Yahoo Design Pattern for
 a similar thing.



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***





***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

[WSG] Question on YUI

2008-04-28 Thread James Jeffery
Morning all,

I have never used YUI but i thought i might aswell give it a shot on my
latest project, afterall the tools are there to save time. The problem is
though their layouts, some of the ones i was looking at are heavy on
Javascript.

Call me wrong but from my knowledge relying soley on JavaScript and JSON for
a menu is a bad idea when accessibility is concerned. Do they expect the
users to create alternatives for users who would not be using Javascipt?

The example that i quickly looked over is:
http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/menu/topnavfromjswithanim.html


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] valid video in (x)html?

2008-04-28 Thread James Jeffery
A google search pulls up alot of results:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=enq=embedding+youtube+valid+htmlmeta=

Try those.


On 4/28/08, Designer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I have had a request from a client to include a video on a website. I know
 nothing about this, except for  a simple embedding from youtube. Sadly, the
 page doesn't validate if I do that.

 Has anyone any experience of producing a standard (accessible?) video into
 a web page?  I've googled, but not found anything useful.

 I've done it with Flash by using Bert Stern's method:

  object data=sitegraphics/creditsv2.swf width=566
 height=389 type=application/x-shockwave-flash
param name=movie value=sitegraphics/creditsv2.swf /
param name=quality value=high /
param name=bgcolor value=#fff /
a href=
 http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,29,0
 
img src=sitegraphics/credits.jpg alt=Credits graphic, for
 those without flash  /
/a
  /object

 But video seems to be more problematic?

 I'd be really grateful for any help here.

 Many thanks,

 Bob
 www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Standard for committing changes to a database?

2008-04-14 Thread James Jeffery
Let the user modify the data and submit any changes. Its how most
applications work and its what the users are used to.


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

[WSG] Dreamweaver CS3

2008-04-04 Thread James Jeffery
I've been thinking about buying the new version of Photoshop and
Illustrator, as i just purchased a new dual core iMac. Currently i use
BBEdit but im thinking about switching to Dreamweaver as i might aswell
purchase the creative suite. Is the new dreamweaver any good for us
developers?

This may not seem related to web standards but i feel it does because back
when i used dreamweaver - it was the days when it bloated out your code and
caused friction for many developers.


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

[WSG] Test Plans

2008-01-15 Thread James Jeffery
Hi All.

Im not familiar with test plans for Websites, i have my own way of running
tests that usually run of what the client wants i.e: Is the header 320px
heigh? and does it expand when the font size is incremented?.

I have to do an in depth test plan for an assignment, which i would also use
for future jobs. Has anyone got any good resources on test plans? I'd like
to see a few government ones if possible and some 'standard' or 'defacto'
plans if possible.

Im not sure if this topic borderlines on being removed, but i feel its
standards related and most the users here work or have worked for companies
that use them or they use themselves so i felt i'd get a better response.

Cheers guys. I await your replies and thanks for your time.


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Test Plans

2008-01-15 Thread James Jeffery
Guys, all i can say is WOW! and thanks alot. I didn't expect many replies
and surprisingly everyone kept on topic (which is good).

I thank everyone for their replies and thanks a million steve, really
appreciate that mate. Ill spend all night tonight on research and as well as
meeting the assignment guidelines this will give me an insight into
something ive never really looked into much before.

Cheers.

On Jan 15, 2008 6:58 PM, Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I've just sent James a heap of sample test plans and stuff, but
 unfortunately very little of it is online because it's mostly stuff I've
 collected over the years in case it was ever useful (it wasn't).

 If you want to learn about how to do bad testing, just Google IEE 829 or
 ISEB.

 If you want to learn about good testing, read the following:

 www.context-driven-testing.com

 Everything written by Cem Kaner - www.kaner.com

 Everything written by James Bach - www.satisfice.com

 Bret Pettichord's four schools of testing -
 http://www.io.com/~wazmo/papers/four_schools.pdfhttp://www.io.com/%7Ewazmo/papers/four_schools.pdf

 If anyone wants to know more it's probably best to email me off-list.

 Steve
 www.labscape.co.uk




 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Michael Horowitz
 Sent: 15 January 2008 17:54
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Test Plans

 I'd love to see the stuff online.  I think this is a very important part
 of
 web standards.  QA should not be an afterthought but an integral part of
 the
 process.

 Michael Horowitz
 Your Computer Consultant
 http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
 561-394-9079



 Steve Green wrote:
  When you talk about 'standard' or 'government' test plans, what you
  mean is documentation as per IEE 829. Unfortunately this is an
  appallingly bad standard that guarantees inefficient and ineffective
  testing. However, this is what most test consultants peddle because
  it's easy to teach and some people are impressed by huge piles of test
  scripts (you might have guessed I'm not). It also maximises
  consultants' incomes because everything takes much longer than it
  needs to. I have run an outsource testing company for 6 years and we
  never use this type of documentation.
 
  I have many other resources that may be useful so I'll contact you
  off-list.
 
  Steve Green
  www.labscape.co.uk http://www.labscape.co.uk
 
  --
  --
  *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *James Jeffery
  *Sent:* 15 January 2008 12:09
  *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
  *Subject:* [WSG] Test Plans
 
  Hi All.
 
  Im not familiar with test plans for Websites, i have my own way of
  running tests that usually run of what the client wants i.e: Is the
  header 320px heigh? and does it expand when the font size is
  incremented?.
 
  I have to do an in depth test plan for an assignment, which i would
  also use for future jobs. Has anyone got any good resources on test
  plans? I'd like to see a few government ones if possible and some
  'standard' or 'defacto' plans if possible.
 
  Im not sure if this topic borderlines on being removed, but i feel its
  standards related and most the users here work or have worked for
  companies that use them or they use themselves so i felt i'd get a
  better response.
 
  Cheers guys. I await your replies and thanks for your time.
 
  ***
  List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
  Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
  Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  ***
  ***
  List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
  Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
  Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  ***


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Re: inline styles theoretical question

2008-01-01 Thread James Jeffery
HTML is the structure and content, CSS is the presentation, Javascript is
the behaviour.

Its perfectly valid to include in-line styles if you like making life hard
for yourself and enjoy updating messy mark-up thats difficult to read. There
may be extreme cases when you need to use inline styles, but other than that
why would you want to?

James

On Jan 1, 2008 10:47 PM, kevin mcmonagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 sorry my mistake - i forgot inline styles are valid but not best
 practices.

 you guys are right in all you say but i dont know if you understand
 exactly what im saying.
 A textpattern form  with inline styles, only gets loaded once and when
 a change is made to it every page on the site is globally updated. The
 reason why I like using inline styles in it these global forms for minor
 tweaks is that no css file has to be changed saved and uploaded. Anyway
 i guess its a grey area, im going to keep doing it for now.
 -best
 kevin



 heres and example of a form:

 body

  div id=header


h1 class=logotxp:link_to_homeimg src=/images/headlogo.png
 alt=John F. Loughrey and Associates style=border:0px
 //txp:link_to_home/h1


 div style=float:left; display:block; width:250px; border:0px solid
 black;

 loads more stuff.



/div!-- [/header]--




 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] Re: inline styles theoretical question

2008-01-01 Thread James Jeffery
A CMS system bases itself on templates. A template file will get re-used
over and over as many times as it needs so if you add the following to the
index.php page (which is the base for every page within the CMS):

div style=border:red 1px solid?php get_section('link_list') ?/div

That will give the div a border, because its a template file any page that
uses it will also have the same because each page is a clone/copy of the
template.

Thats why it works the way it does.

On Jan 1, 2008 11:27 PM, John Faulds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  A textpattern form  with inline styles, only gets loaded once and when
  a change is made to it every page on the site is globally updated.

 You may only have one file to edit, but what gets sent to the browser is
 still a different page for each entry with the inline styles needing to be
 downloaded for each individual page. What you're describing isn't unique
 to Textpattern, that's how all CMSs work - they use template files but the
 HTML doesn't get 'loaded once' and it doesn't get cached; only CSS in an
 external stylesheet gets cached.


 --
 Tyssen Design
 www.tyssendesign.com.au
 Ph: (07) 3300 3303
 Mb: 0405 678 590


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***

Re: [WSG] AccessResearch // Page Check

2007-11-18 Thread James Jeffery
On Nov 18, 2007 1:19 AM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 James Jeffery wrote:
  Not every anchor needs extra advisory information, so I don't see an
  issue here.
 
  The title attribute is optional, but a title can help to clearly and
  accurately describe a link and for a website thats based around
  accessibility he should be using the title attribute where needed.

 But his links don't need it in this case.


So your saying that before a user reads the content of the home page
they are expected to know whats on the My Project page? Keep in mind
users who use assistive devices to browse the web might find it very
difficult to navigate to other pages. You could sum up the page
contents in the title so it saves the user clicking the link.

Adding clarity when possibly needed is a good thing.

/overAndOut


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



Re: [WSG] AccessResearch // Page Check

2007-11-18 Thread James Jeffery
[quote cite=http://juicystudio.com/article/using-title-attribute.php;]
Values of the title attribute may be rendered by user agents in a
variety of ways. For instance, visual browsers frequently display the
title as a tool tip (a short message that appears when the pointing
device pauses over an object). Audio user agents may speak the title
information in a similar context. For example, setting the attribute
on a link allows user agents (visual and non-visual) to tell users
about the nature of the linked resource.

[quote cite=http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-WCAG20-TECHS/H33.html;]
Assistive technologies provide different levels of support for
speaking the title attribute for an anchor element.

JAWS 7.0 will speak either the link text or the title attribute for a
link depending upon a JAWS setting. This setting can be changed
temporarily or permanently within JAWS. However, it is awkward to read
both the link text and the title attribute for a link.

WindowEyes 5.5 has a hot key, ins-E, that will speak additional
information, including the title attribute, for the item with focus.

Home Page Reader 3.04 will speak the the URL of the current page and
title attribute of any element with focus when the control-shift-F1
keys are pressed simultaneously.

Some do, some don't. I would rather provide to those that do and give
the disabled a greater benifit for those that make use of the title
attribute. It would be wrong *not* to use the title attribute when you
could be helping others make more sense of your page. Its like saying
dont think about users with older browsers, they are the minority.
Every user counts.

If a user wants to magnify the screen there are alternative methods
for making link text bigger, there is no alternative method for  a
user to make sense of link text.

James

On Nov 18, 2007 5:44 PM, Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 People with assistive technologies rarely benefit from 'title' attributes.
 They are not displayed by text browsers, they are not accessible using
 keyboard navigation (or devices that emulate keyboards) and they are not
 read by screen readers with default settings. They are only accessible to
 someone who uses a mouse and can hover it over the link, in which case it is
 not particularly difficult to go the extra step and click it.

 On top of that, excessive use of tooltips of any kind causes an obstacle for
 screen magnifier users, as they obscure a large proportion of the page even
 at relatively low magnification levels.

 So I have users very much in mind when I recommend that 'title' attributes
 should be used as little as possible.

 Steve




 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of James Jeffery
 Sent: 18 November 2007 10:32
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: [WSG] AccessResearch // Page Check

 On Nov 18, 2007 1:19 AM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  James Jeffery wrote:
   Not every anchor needs extra advisory information, so I don't see
   an issue here.
  
   The title attribute is optional, but a title can help to clearly and
   accurately describe a link and for a website thats based around
   accessibility he should be using the title attribute where needed.
 
  But his links don't need it in this case.
 

 So your saying that before a user reads the content of the home page they
 are expected to know whats on the My Project page? Keep in mind users who
 use assistive devices to browse the web might find it very difficult to
 navigate to other pages. You could sum up the page contents in the title so
 it saves the user clicking the link.

 Adding clarity when possibly needed is a good thing.

 /overAndOut


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***



 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



Re: [WSG] AccessResearch // Page Check

2007-11-18 Thread James Jeffery
I see where you are coming from, in a way.

It seems that there is a problem, not with developers, but with
accessibility overall if there is no way to provide additional
information for link text.

Anchor text such as The Future or Our Projects may be intended,
but to the average user they can scan the page quickly and get an idea
about what The Future is relating to. For users who find it
difficult to read or view pages for whatever reason trying to figure
out where that link takes you is going to be hard. That visitor may be
a customer or it may be someone trying to find information.
It would be better to have something like:

a href=future.html title=The future of APR Electrical Components
CorperationThe Future/a

Maybe in the new versions of HTML of WCAG they should think about
this, providing addition information. Primarily aimed at people with
disabilities but its there for the average Joe aswell.

Great discussion though, some valid points on both ends i feel.

James

On Nov 18, 2007 7:54 PM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 James Jeffery wrote:

  Some do, some don't. I would rather provide to those that do and give
  the disabled a greater benifit for those that make use of the title
  attribute.

 Link text should make sense to *everybody*. If they don't, don't just
 fix it for the poor disabled users, fix it for everybody.

 Your intentions are well meant, but misplaced IMHO. And, as I was
 saying, it's wrong to say you *should* provide title as if the
 original poster made an omission. This is all opinion, not dogma.

 P
 --
 Patrick H. Lauke
 __
 re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
 [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
 www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
 http://redux.deviantart.com
 __
 Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
 http://webstandards.org/
 __
 Take it to the streets ... join the WaSP Street Team
 http://streetteam.webstandards.org/

 __


 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



Re: [WSG] Site check

2007-11-17 Thread James Jeffery
Usability - Poor

One off the reasons is viewing your web gallery annoyed me. I had to
click through 3 pages to view the gallery and each time the flash too
a while to load.

- There is to much flash on the site that does not need to be there.

- Colors are poor

I could point out alo of things but everyone else has said what i was
going to say.

The site really needs to reflect on what it is you do, and if i was a
potential client i would not be influenced to purchase your services
based on your website.

James

On Nov 17, 2007 7:35 AM, John Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I fear for their welfare.
 
  Best,
 
  ~dL
 
  --
  http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

 Me too. Personally I like seeing h1 tags have only text content in
 them, and to at least have text content in them. Hey, are we in a
 timewarp? I have an issue that a lot of the content is inaccurate (eg.
 Ajax isn't a programming language) and lots of the rest is hard to
 use, or feels unfinished, from the Web button that when clicked, does
 nothing but float and return, via the 'web gallery wheel of doom' to
 the Work links' flash of unstyled content (FOUC) which is very
 avoidable.

 Kenny, you've got some fairly big issues with the site. I suggest
 reading a good book, maybe something like 'Designing with Web
 Standards', or alternatively 'Foucault's Pendulum'.

 If you want I can guide you through fixing some of the more obvious
 ones off-list, stuff like the empty (and useless) span/spans in
 the nav. Although XHTML 1.1 valid, a cursory glance at webxact would
 show your site fails some of the basic accessibility standards and
 quality checks.

 John




 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***




***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***



  1   2   >