[WSG] How Important Is Web Accessibility?
Zooming is present on the majority of modern browsers, so where does this leave elastic layouts, and em's? Should we still develop sites that grow should the user want to increase the text size? Even though it's the lower browsers that do that? I've been out of the scene for a while, so I've lost touch with the current practices and conventions. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] IE8: Extensions to CSS
Why do Microsoft always feel the need to include their own properties. Are these in the CSS 2.1 specs? I've never seen them. 2009/3/26 tee weblis...@gmail.com I was looking for a IE8 CSS support chart (do you know any?) and stumble on this site: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc304082(VS.85).aspxhttp://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc304082%28VS.85%29.aspx Extensions to CSS The following CSS attributes are Microsoft extensions to the CSS 2.1 specification and should be specified with an -ms- prefix in IE8 mode: • -ms-accelerator • -ms-background-position-x • -ms-background-position-y . Interesting! Would be nice if it has -ms-border-radius . tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- James Jeffery Web Developer and iPhone Applications Developer m: 07964722061 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Hotlinking prevention does not work
This is not the place to discuss such problems. This mailing list is to be
used for discussions based around Web Standards.
Thank you.
2009/3/21 Keryx Web webmas...@keryx.se
Hi
I looked at my logs today and I saw a lot of hotlinking gping on.
So just why does this code not work?
RewriteEngine on
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} !^http://(.+\.)?keryx\.se/ [NC]
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} !^$
RewriteRule .*\.(jpe?g|gif|bmp|png)$ /bilder/image-theft.png [L]
Lars Gunther
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James Jeffery
Web Developer and iPhone Applications Developer
m: 07964722061
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[WSG] Blueprint Grids
After reading 'Transcending CSS' I have learnt that grids are not a replacement for table based layouts (as has been drummed into me by so called evangelists on IRC). I understand the importance of grids in print and non-web media and now want to start using them. I've started using Blueprint. I quickily scrolled through the CSS file and got a grasp for it. My problem is this. In the book I am seeing examples where they are using 4 and 5 columns. I have developed a layout, which uses the divine proportion. So far I have the container, and 2 divs. Now, within these grids do I use more columns to go with the layout and structure of the design? And if so, how can I overlap? For example, in the main-content area I might have 5 columns, now lets say using Blueprint and my own CSS I want to use 4 columns for the content and 1 for meta date per article. How do I use all 4 and leave the one? Sounds like a silly, vaugue, question ... I know. But I'm a little taken by this and am eager to learn because I feel this is going to greatly boost productivity. Thanks -- James Jeffery Web Developer and iPhone Applications Developer m: 07964722061 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Failed A Job :(
Guys thanks for the response. I hit the sac last night at nearly 6am and was very pissed off, with myself for failing the job. I'm all good now though because at the end of the day it wasn't really my doing. The guy that passed me the work does front-end development all day, I thought it was strange why he passed on the work to me. Now I see why ... because it was a bloody mess. Anyway. I can't say who it is, but it's a cable/sat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Failed A Job :(
Indeed. My only problem is I have lost future work from the guy that feeds me these jobs because I failed it, he isn't even understanding my situation and he's a front-end developer aswell. I mean 10 hours to do a whole lot of bug fixing and a near rewite is stupid. Also there was no SV so when I edited stuff, they overwrite it and it was an absolute nightmare. As you said. Lesson learned :p On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Krystian - Sunlust sunl...@gmail.comwrote: I remember when through GAF I got a on-page SEO job for a website, I was stupid enough to accept it without first looking at the code, it came out that it's a table based design with images in the markup used for layouts etc. I've done as much as I could, but it was a nightmare. Like Simon posted, it's a good lesson. Regards, -- Krystian - Sunlust Affordable Web Services in Eastbourne: http://eastbournewebdesign.net Mobile UK (Orange): 07528 036 337 Call for more information or email me. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Failed A Job :(
Some people are so tight with money (even those with alot) that they settle for cheap mess rather then refined bliss. On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Viable Design desi...@viabledesign.comwrote: I've been feeling a bit guilty for the past few months because I wouldn't get the bugs out of a friend's insurance-business site for him on the ultra-cheap. The tables and inline mess would've taken so long to sort out that I probably would've been better off, time-wise, starting from scratch. I offered him a discounted rate, but it wasn't enough of a discount for him, I guess. Now, I'm thinking I did the right thing after all. I know he wouldn't've appreciated the clean coding, and he definitely wouldn't've appreciated the time spent. Jo Hawke On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Simon Pascal Klein kle...@klepas.orgwrote: On 30/01/2009, at 2:15 AM, kie...@humdingerdesigns.co.uk kie...@humdingerdesigns.co.uk wrote: Join the club, I've been commissioned to do a local website and the guy was hoping he'd be able to get a quick bug-fix on his current with a bit of updating. Unfortuanetly the css was akin to the Guttenberg Bible; completely unreadable and would have been a pig to translate. Not to mention, a strange and chaotic mishmash of tables, frames and weird proprietary software markup. Some clients (and this one did, thank god) need to realize that when the original is written by a back street bedroom I can do that wannabe, they're paying for someone who can stick a few words and pics up and not much else. Wel, I for one, relish at the idea of getting my hands on a Gutenburg Bible and reading it… well analysing the lettering and type rather, but hey. :-) From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of James Jeffery Sent: 29 January 2009 14:13 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Failed A Job :( [...] --- Simon Pascal Klein Graphic Web Designer Web: http://klepas.org E-mai: kle...@klepas.org Twitter: @klepas; http://twitter.com/klepas Kaffee und Kuchen. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] friends? - was( Failed A Job :()
Aye' I did a task for a friend once. Charged him £100 for a few pages, a nice design etc. He refused to pay. He is a near millionaire, well his assets are worth that much. Business owners don't know how much work is involved sometimes. Even something basic requires some tweaking for browser support, mobile devices etc. To much infatuation with money in the business world. Some people are rich because they are tight. On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 6:30 PM, designer desig...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk wrote: I did a site for one of my friends 'on the cheap', but put a lot of hours into it, and did it as 'properly' as I could. It was all hand coded and validated to the point of neurosis. Eventually, he decided that he wanted to pay me because he wanted to add a few more pages. When it was done, I told him to 'call it £160'. He went barmy - shouted about the lunacy of charging such a crazy amount, just for 'putting a few words in and moving a bit of stuff around. I've haven't heard from him for six months now, despite us growing up together on the same road many years ago. Friends? Keep well away! Bob - Original Message - *From:* Viable Design desi...@viabledesign.com *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Sent:* Thursday, January 29, 2009 5:04 PM *Subject:* Re: [WSG] Failed A Job :( I've been feeling a bit guilty for the past few months because I wouldn't get the bugs out of a friend's insurance-business site for him on the ultra-cheap. The tables and inline mess would've taken so long to sort out that I probably would've been better off, time-wise, starting from scratch. I offered him a discounted rate, but it wasn't enough of a discount for him, I guess. Now, I'm thinking I did the right thing after all. I know he wouldn't've appreciated the clean coding, and he definitely wouldn't've appreciated the time spent. Jo Hawke *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Failed A Job :(
Big company, worldwide infact. A great one for the resume but I failed it. I was brought in at the end of the project to fix some bugs. Let me just say that from viewing the source it was majorly flawed! I spent 6 hours on it before handing in the towel right near their deadline. The CSS was unstructured, way to much repetition which was the cause of some bugs and errors. The only way out of that was to rewrite the whole lot. I mean the guys who were on this project were creating empty spans with classes to push elements along a page (like spacers). They had an empty h1 with a span inside it for the logo they placed in using CSS ... that was only a part of the issue. I don't question my knowledge. It's up to par and I have completed a number of jobs, but on this occasion I sucked ... or they sucked ... or both. This website will be released to the world, and millions will use it, but its awfully constructed, not semantic at all and its another case of a poor website on the web. Ah well. Lesson learn't. Never jump into a project at the last minute to be relied upon for a couple of pennies. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Multi Column Category Lists
Hey all, Quick question. I have some data pulled from a database (50 of the most recent categories/tags). These are positioned in a list in 2 columns (example below): - Category1Category5 Category2Category6 Category3Category7 Category4Category8 Its important that these are listed in that order as they are alphabetical going down the column. Currently I split the results from the database, place them in an array, and print 2 columns in separate lists. I was wondering if there is a way to do it without creating 2 lists and do it with one. I have had a think and a browse on google and couldn't find anything, so my last resort is to ask here. Ideas? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Checking My Page
I thinks it's worth reminding everyone on the list that Marvin is actually a
blind web developer.
Personally Marvin I would stick with plain vanilla HTML with no styles at
all. Get rid of the Javascript and focus your time into developing and
marking up some rich content.
Never the less, given your circumstances I have to give you praise for your
work.
Btw. I am still trying to locate that paper I write for you. As soon as I
find it I will email it over. Having to search to the works backup server as
it's not on the system.
James
On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 5:18 AM, Luke Hoggett luke.hogg...@gmail.comwrote:
Hi Marvin,
Wow a flash back to web design circa 1997.
Well it does pass XHTML transitional, so plus there.
In terms of css errors well you really shouldn't be placing styling
information in id attributes i.e. id=Borg; width: 400px; margin: 1%
auto;
Your positioning breaks (text and images in the wrong places) when the
window is resized.
Frankly I haven't seen such a bad design in years, the only way you could
make it better is to add this style to the css
* {text-decoration: blink}
Check out some css gallery sites for better design ideas. Do the original
design as an image in Photoshop or similar, then cut up the xhtml and css
working from your design.
Also this isn't a help desk
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best regards
Luke
Marvin Hunkin wrote:
Hi.
Thanks to Mark Harris, he put my files up on his server.
so, will post the url for feedback.
the main problem, i have is the styles.css and the navlinks.css.
so can people take a look, and show me how to fix some of the errors in the
css sheets i have.
and also general feedback, not so much on content, pretty happy with the
content and the message.
now, formatting, colours, background, etc.
all comments, suggestions, and complaints are welcome.
cheers Marvin.
ps: so here's the url to the site.
http://tracs.co.nz/marvin/
E-mail: startrekc...@gmail.com
MSN: sttartrekc...@msn.com
Skype: startrekcafe
We Are The Borg! You Will Be Assimilated! Resistance Is Futile!
Star Trek Voyager Episode 68 Scorpian Part One
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Re: [WSG] Blockquote
This is the Internet mate, the site owners of the sites I'm to be scraping use the same methods. If I was to cite that site it would be wrong anyway because they don't even own all the content. If there is a financial gain, why sit back and let someone else gain from it? I know a guy that does the same with a lyrics site and makes roughly £14,000 a year in Adsense. It has to be done. On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Adam Martin ajmartin...@gmail.com wrote: Yes I don't think this is the place to ask advise on illegal matters. Scraping content from websites that you do not have permission from is copyright infringement. The fact that you don't want to cite the original source inidcates to me that you are building this site for some financial gain - whether that is to get exposure, advertising revenue or other means. Respect the content owners, ask for their permission to use the content!! - Original Message - From: David Dorward da...@dorward.me.uk To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Blockquote James Jeffery wrote: Thanks for the heads up guys. I know how to use blockquote, that's not an issue, but I'm wondering if using cite would be worth it. I won't be storing the URL from the original page. If I did citing the orig. page that could get me into a while lot of trouble if I am mirroring/scraping/*stealing* quotes from certain sites. Hence why I do not want to cite the original site. I'm not sure I understand you correctly. Are you saying that your are infringing on copyright and are worried that citing the source will get you caught? If so, you're trying to solve the wrong problem and should be seeking to license the content or otherwise use it within the constraints of the law. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Blockquote
It doesn't. I was supposed to email off list. Back to the question. On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Andrew Maben and...@andrewmaben.com wrote: On Jan 8, 2009, at 8:49 AM, Adam Martin wrote: but theft is theft, because someone else does it does not change the law... indeed... but I'm losing track of what exactly this has to do with standards? Andrew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Checking My Page
lol. Don't worry Lisa. I was reading it and I thought for a second it was some spam type of email. Was a good read :p I've did the same in the past. Regards James Jeffery On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Lisa B McLaughlin l...@allspunup.comwrote: OMG! So sorry to blast a personal email here! I WILL use my glasses when using my BlackBerry! Really. (I at least how you got a laugh from my idiocy!) Lisa -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of l...@allspunup.com Sent: 07 January 2009 07:04 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Checking My Page Hi My sister was only able to afford a house because a hurricane made her eligible for a spacial deal. Lots of luck finding something where transportation isn't such an issue. Lots of places open now. Yes, I am planning on Ian's party so getting a ride home shouldn't be a problem. David is as can be expected. Funeral is today so he's on his way to Belfast. LL xx --Original Message-- From: Marvin Hunkin Sender: li...@webstandardsgroup.org To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org ReplyTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Checking My Page Sent: Jan 7, 2009 05:15 Hi. well, got some suggestions, from a friend. and now uploaded my latest files to http://drop.io/startrekcafe/ so, take a look, give me feedback, and any other suggestions, i might need, or if my page, style sheet, and the nav links.css, looks fine and it looks professional, and the fonts, colours, and the page looks fine, then give me some feedback. cheers Marvin. E-mail: startrekc...@gmail.com MSN: sttartrekc...@msn.com Skype: startrekcafe We Are The Borg! You Will Be Assimilated! Resistance Is Futile! Star Trek Voyager Episode 68 Scorpian Part One *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** Sent from my BlackBerryR wireless device *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Blockquote
I'm developing a site. A quote site infact. For the quotes I think it's wise to use blockquote ... but, the quotes are being scraped from other sites so how would I cite them? Could I use a wiki url for the author? And what if the author is unknown or has no wiki page. Do I *need* to include the cite attribute? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Blockquote
Thanks for the heads up guys. I know how to use blockquote, that's not an issue, but I'm wondering if using cite would be worth it. I won't be storing the URL from the original page. If I did citing the orig. page that could get me into a while lot of trouble if I am mirroring/scraping/*stealing* quotes from certain sites. Hence why I do not want to cite the original site. Any advances on the problem? If I could leave the cite out, without it causing an issue then I would. I was going to use a p, but an uncited blockquote would be more semantic than a p I felt. On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 12:33 AM, Chris Cressman ch...@chriscressman.comwrote: ,,,and the cite attribute itself is optional, used only when the quote, as you say, is scraped from another site. :) The cite attribute is poorly supported by most browsers, in the sense that they don't do anything with it. However, you can use a CSS attribute selector and CSS generated content to display its value on your page. I'm not a CSS expert, so I can't code it up, but perhaps someone else will do it if you're interested. Chris *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: FW: [WSG] High-Pass Filter and Yahoo's reset stylesheet (question regarding validation)
Ted,
Thanks for going the extra mile. Iit explains it really well for those that
don't know.
James
On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 8:58 AM, Ted Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Here's a reply from Nate K, the architect of grids, fonts, reset, … files
in YUI
--
*From:* Nate Koechley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Sent:* Thursday, November 20, 2008 7:27 PM
*To:* Ted Drake
*Subject:* Re: [WSG] High-Pass Filter and Yahoo's reset stylesheet
(question regarding validation)
My explanation of the things that don't validate is here:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-javascript/message/40059
Thanks,
Nate
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 11:06 AM, James Jeffery
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
20
input, textarea, select
Parse Error {*font-size:100%;
20
input, textarea, select
Parse error - Unrecognized ;}
Test it:
http://mi-linux.wlv.ac.uk/~0802390/reset.csshttp://mi-linux.wlv.ac.uk/%7E0802390/reset.css
That's not in reset.css, it's from fonts.css. It's also not the High Pass
filter
- see here for an explanation:
http://tantek.com/CSS/Examples/highpass.html
If you're worried about it, extract the IE-only code out of the file and
wrap it in conditional comments.
- Matthew
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[WSG] High-Pass Filter and Yahoo's reset stylesheet (question regarding validation)
Was just wondering. I always use Yahoo's reset.css file to reset elements, but I have just noticed there is a CSS parse error in it (purposely put there for browser selecting). I used the reset.css file in a web development assignment at uni and am worried that I will lose marks. The marking guide says to get an A you must have no CSS errors, but do you think in this case exceptions could be made? Also the High-Pass filter flags a CSS 'File Not Found' error because it uses null as a filename. I used this to target IE 5 and below so they recieve no CSS document. There are 2 errors within the document, should these be classed as errors to degrade my final mark? I have documented them in my test plan to show they are not missed errors but I'm not sure what they will think of it. Any help would be great. James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] High-Pass Filter and Yahoo's reset stylesheet (question regarding validation)
20 input, textarea, select Parse Error {*font-size:100%; 20 input,
textarea, select Parse error - Unrecognized ;}
Test it: http://mi-linux.wlv.ac.uk/~0802390/reset.css
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Matthew Pennell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 10:45 AM, James Jeffery
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Was just wondering. I always use Yahoo's reset.css file to reset elements,
but I have just noticed there is a CSS parse error in it (purposely put
there for browser selecting).
I can't see any parse errors in reset.css:
http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/reset/
I use it myself as the basis for all stylesheets, and have never had a
validation problem.
- Matthew
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Re: [WSG] High-Pass Filter and Yahoo's reset stylesheet (question regarding validation)
Dude, I didn't say that was the high pass filter. I said that was the error
in the reset.css. The high pass filter is a different issue unrelated to the
Yahoo
reset stylesheet.
Also, if you look at the source code for reset-min.css you will see it isn't
nothing to do with the fonts stylesheet and is infact in the reset-min.css
stylesheet.
Check it yourself. You will see I'm correct ;)
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Matthew Pennell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 11:06 AM, James Jeffery
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
20 input, textarea, select Parse Error {*font-size:100%; 20 input,
textarea, select Parse error - Unrecognized ;}
Test it:
http://mi-linux.wlv.ac.uk/~0802390/reset.csshttp://mi-linux.wlv.ac.uk/%7E0802390/reset.css
That's not in reset.css, it's from fonts.css. It's also not the High Pass
filter - see here for an explanation:
http://tantek.com/CSS/Examples/highpass.html
If you're worried about it, extract the IE-only code out of the file and
wrap it in conditional comments.
- Matthew
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[WSG] Strange character encoding issue
Never had a problem with character encodings on web pages, but since I reinstalled the OS on my iMac I have had an issue. Some of my characters, especially when using ' seem to mess up. This is the page, content and layout are simple as it's for a uni assignment: http://mi-linux.wlv.ac.uk/~0802390/overview.html Check out the overview.html page, and notice the issues. There is one noticeable in the overview page ‘SOAP’ Any ideas? (for those interested I do plan to publish a website regarding the Semantic Web shortly). *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Strange character encoding issue
I don't own the server. Anyway. I saved as ISO-8859-1, and it works on windows now but not on Mac. Pulling my hair out at this issue. On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 4:23 PM, David Dorward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James Jeffery wrote: Never had a problem with character encodings on web pages, but since I reinstalled the OS on my iMac I have had an issue. Your server says: Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 But the data is UTF-8. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Strange character encoding issue
Got it to work. I think, back when I got the iMac I set all this up because I had a similar issue. When I formatted I forgot to do it again. On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 4:32 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't own the server. Anyway. I saved as ISO-8859-1, and it works on windows now but not on Mac. Pulling my hair out at this issue. On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 4:23 PM, David Dorward [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: James Jeffery wrote: Never had a problem with character encodings on web pages, but since I reinstalled the OS on my iMac I have had an issue. Your server says: Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 But the data is UTF-8. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Strange character encoding issue
I used the iso-8859-1 charset and all works :) On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 4:35 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your server send the data as: Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 but in your code says UTF-8. The values in the http-header overwrites any values in the document. == change the content type settig on your server or == use iso-8859-1 charset in your documents and only valid chars. hope this helps. Kind regards, Stefan James Jeffery wrote: Never had a problem with character encodings on web pages, but since I reinstalled the OS on my iMac I have had an issue. Some of my characters, especially when using ' seem to mess up. This is the page, content and layout are simple as it's for a uni assignment: http://mi-linux.wlv.ac.uk/~0802390/overview.htmlhttp://mi-linux.wlv.ac.uk/%7E0802390/overview.html Check out the overview.html page, and notice the issues. There is one noticeable in the overview page ‘SOAP’ Any ideas? (for those interested I do plan to publish a website regarding the Semantic Web shortly). *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Strange character encoding issue
Tim, Yes that is a common problem. Usually I would fix that, but seen as I have about 3 hours to get this tested and handed in I think I will leave it. I'll just underline the links :) Thanks for the complement on the design and the fact you spotted the usability issue. Much appreciated. James On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 5:09 PM, Tim Offenstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Never had a problem with character encodings on web pages, but since I reinstalled the OS on my iMac I have had an issue. Some of my characters, especially when using ' seem to mess up. This is the page, content and layout are simple as it's for a uni assignment: http://mi-linux.wlv.ac.uk/~0802390/overview.htmlhttp://mi-linux.wlv.ac.uk/%7E0802390/overview.html Check out the overview.html page, and notice the issues. There is one noticeable in the overview page ⤗SOAP⤠Any ideas? (for those interested I do plan to publish a website regarding the Semantic Web shortly). James, Running your page through the W3 Validator (validator.w3.org) gives the following response: Error line 5 7 , C o l u m n 2 0 : n o n S G M L c h a r a c t e r n u m b e r 1 4 5 . t h e k e y w o r d ë S O A P í i n a s e a r c h e n g i n e w i l l r e t u r n r e s u l t s You have used an illegal character in your text. HTML uses the standard UNICODE Consortium (http://www.unicode.org/) character repertoire, and it leaves undefined (among others) 65 character codes (0 to 31 inclusive and 127 to 159 inclusive) that are sometimes used for typographical quote marks and similar in proprietary character sets. The validator has found one of these undefined characters in your document. The character may appear on your browser as a curly quote, or a trademark symbol, or some other fancy glyph; on a different computer, however, it will likely appear as a completely different character, or nothing at all. Your best bet is to replace the character with the nearest equivalent ASCII character, or to use an appropriate character entity ( http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/html3/latin1.html). For more information on Character Encoding on the web, see Alan Flavell's excellent HTML Character Set Issues/a reference ( http://web.archive.org/web/20060425191748/ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/~flavehttp://web.archive.org/web/20060425191748/ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/%7Eflave ll/charset/). End of quote. I always recommend people use UTF-8 because it's a much larger character set than ISO-8859-1. I also recommend use of XHTML Transitional rather than HTML DTD's. On a side note, I like your page, very attractive. But I found the 1, 2, 3, ... buttons at the top confusing because I kept trying to click the number. Then I tried clicking the blue text, both of which produced nothing. Finally my cursor wandered over the black text and I realized it was the link. Perhaps underlining that link or making it dynamic like the button would prevent the confusion I encountered. On the other hand, perhaps I just need another cup of coffee! Peace, -Tim -- Tim Offenstein *** Campus Accessibility Liaison *** (217) 244-2700 CITES Departmental Services *** www.uiuc.edu/goto/offenstein *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Tools or analytics to detect assistive devices
Install the web accessibility toolbar for Firefox, that will help you out. I am doing alot of testing at the moment for a site I am developing. I use Cynthia Says, TAW, WebAIM WAVE to name a few. James On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 4:49 PM, McLaughlin, Gail [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I'm wondering if anybody here knows of a way to use analytics data to help determine a good guess or idea of which users are using screen readers to access data, or having trouble with certain pages (thus making the case for doing usability and accessibility exercises)? Thanks, Gail *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] img cannot be contained within the body?
A very silly question that I cannot believe I am asking. I have never had to use img within the body tag. I was playing about with a test case for a client and happened to put img directly within the body (was for an image on screen with next and prev. links ... a gallery). I validated, and it was saying img needs to be contained. I checked the specs but could not see anything that was stating this. In the real application it wouldn't be directly within the body, because it would be within a page section div anyway, but am just curious. James. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] img cannot be contained within the body?
Ah, see. One little assumption threw me off. I know inlines can't contain blocks. I assumed the body element was block level by default. You see, it goes to show, after developing websites for many companies and government agencies over the years you can still be threw off by something silly. Cheers anyway. On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 8:18 PM, Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 3:04 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A very silly question that I cannot believe I am asking. I have never had to use img within the body tag. I was playing about with a test case for a client and happened to put img directly within the body (was for an image on screen with next and prev. links ... a gallery). I validated, and it was saying img needs to be contained. I checked the specs but could not see anything that was stating this. In the real application it wouldn't be directly within the body, because it would be within a page section div anyway, but am just curious. The specs say that inline elements have to be contained within block level elements. IMG is inline, DIV is block. BODY is neither. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] JavaScript clarification please
My statement was not worded correctly. I use Java, C++, PHP and Javascript and I can tell you that out of the lot of them, Javascript is the most difficult to incorperate conventional Object Orientated design. For example you cannot simply define classes, or use visability keywords (you can do it, but not the conventional way) and some of the OOP design patterns are difficult to put into Javascript. I have the Apress book on Javascript Design Patterns, which helped alot when learning OOP in JS. Sorry my wording was wrong. I think the above is what I meant. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS editors
I have both BBEdit and TextMate. I use TextMate alot because it's a nice and simple text editor. Project creation is easy also, you just drag in project folders. I like BBEdit when I am doing Java, C/C++ and general programming, but depending on the task I will use XCode aswell. If it's just HTML, CSS, JavaScript, PHP/Python/Ruby then I'd go with TextMate: http://macromates.com/ Good move on the Mac though. James On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 10:51 AM, Gicela Morales [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Hi Everyone, I've just migrated form PC to a new macbook :-) but was wondering about the best xhtml/css editors for macs around that people can recommend? I can see that BBEdit is still around ( I used to use this back in the 90's) and CSSedit seem to have some good reviews. Any preferences? Kind regards, Gicela *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Uppercase Tag Names
I am at university at the moment, and they said to use uppercase text for tag names and lowercase for attributes. I have to do it because otherwise I will lose a mark. I disagreed (because it makes the source hard to read) but he said you need to so that you can conform to HTML 4.01. I think this a case of someone reading far to deep into the specs. I didn't really want to argue with him because he assumes I know nothing. I do know that the source code has become difficult to read using that method. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Dev. For Mobile Browsers
Thank you shawn, they are helping alot :) On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 2:58 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone got any good resources on developing for mobile browsers? It's an area I have never really looked into, but am interested in. - Mobile Web Best Practices http://www.w3.org/TR/mobile-bp/ - Mobile Web Application Best Practices http://www.w3.org/TR/mwabp/ - W3C Mobile Web Initiative home page links to related info http://www.w3.org/Mobile/ - Web Content Accessibility and Mobile Web: Making a Web Site Accessible Both for People with Disabilities and for Mobile Devices http://www.w3.org/WAI/mobile/ Hope these help... ~Shawn - Shawn Lawton Henry W3C Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: +1.617.395.7664 about: http://www.w3.org/People/Shawn/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Dev. For Mobile Browsers
Thanks to everyone. And thank you Frank. On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 7:53 AM, Frank Palinkas [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: James, please take a look here: http://dev.opera.com/articles/mobile/ This is a collecton of developer articles on mobile technology at the dev.opera.com. Kind regards, Frank M. Palinkas QA Documentation/Technical Writer Opera Software ASA, Oslo, Norway http://www.opera.com/ http://dev.opera.com/articles/accessibility/ http://frank.helpware.net On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 4:13 AM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone got any good resources on developing for mobile browsers? It's an area I have never really looked into, but am interested in. Cheers. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Dev. For Mobile Browsers
Anyone got any good resources on developing for mobile browsers? It's an area I have never really looked into, but am interested in. Cheers. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon???
Just got chrome on my XP machine. Looks good but I am concerned about accessibility. Again, thanks Steve. James Jeffery On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 5:19 PM, kevin erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Thank you for the report Steve. It was very helpful!! kevin On Wed, 03 Sep 2008 11:23:15 -0400, Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, this is the case. There has been a lot of talk about this in GAWDS, and Steve Faulkner has written about it at http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/?p=92. Basically it looks like there's no MSAA support. If they don't address this, many large organisations (at least in the UK) will not use it. I imagine that such organisations are exactly the people Google are expecting to build applications using Chrome, so hopefully this will be addressed at some point, ideally before it comes out of beta. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kevin erickson Sent: 03 September 2008 16:07 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon??? I have a huge concern about accessibility here. Apparently Jaws and other screen readers don't work on Google Chrome at all. Can others please confirm? kevin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Coming very soon...
I am looking forward to Google's Chrome browser. I have been on many IRC channels today, and on many forums and everyones talking about Chrome. Its got more hype than FF3 had, so lets hope it loves up to the hype. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Web dev or design certificates
I havn't even viewed the Opera certs. but I 'think' they do something similar. I also know that PPK is doing something to get front end engineers recognized. He is developing a cert. programme or something. As for PHP you can do the Zend Certified Engineer exam. Web Development is a fast changing subject and there are many branches to it. I doubt any certification would be 'in date' for long. On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 6:57 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Every once in a while I'll have a student ask if there are any global or national web design or web dev certificate programs that are worth more than the paper they are printed on. Anyone know of any (XHTML, CSS, PHP, Flash, etc) that adhere to web standards and are recognized by employers? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: RE: [WSG] Web Application Accessibility
Could be a genuine mistake guys. I doubt its spam. I like that building, and how you can click an apartment and get an birds eye view of it. Did you develop that? I completed the survey btw. James On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 3:06 AM, William Donovan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chris, I got it twice as well. Hence the spam question. I doubt it is in the system twice. do you generally get new posts twice? William Melbourne CORE Ash, Chris \(SYD-MWG\) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just got the below email twice. Do i have two instances of my email in your database ? If yes can u pls amend Regards. Chris Ash | Interactive Developer McCann Worldgroup Sydney | 166 William Street, Woolloomooloo, NSW 2011, Australia T: +61 (0)2 9994 4280 | M: +61 (0)414 772 551 | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Taylor Sent: Wednesday, 20 August 2008 11:27 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Web Application Accessibility Hi, I am conducting a study into the accessibility of Internet application frameworks for a thesis in computer science and I would be grateful if you would take the time to complete the following test, its very short and would help a lot with this piece of research, I will post a link to a summarized version when I have completed the research. http://www.krumphau.com/disapps/index.php Regards Andy *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** _ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.mci.com This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive this message for the intended recipient), you may not use, copy, disseminate or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail, and delete the message. Thank you. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Issues making compliant code using Joomla! [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
I stopped using Joomla! because of security flaws and the whole system is code bloated and difficult to understand. The documentation is also weak. I started getting to grips with Symfony, although strictly not a CMS, it offers alot more power and flexability. James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Tables for product=price list
In the past I have tryed to avoid tables as much as possible and sometimes going as far as using lists for data that should be placed in tables. I am trying to sway away from the 'never use tables' crowd and have started to use them when they need to be used. I am working on a tattoo website and the client wants a list of pricing for tattoos and peircings. Would you say this is a good candidate for a table? Although 'price list' states list, its not to say that a list should be used. Any ideas. James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
Here is the current mark-up h3Body Art/h3 table captionBody Art Price List/caption thead tr thProduct/th thPrice/th /tr /thead tbody tr tdSmall (writing only, per letter)/td td£10/td /tr tr tdLarge (writing only, per letter)/td td£20/td /tr tr tdSmall (single color)/td td£40/td /tr tr tdMedium (single color)/td td£80/td /tr tr tdLarge (single color)/td td£110/td /tr tr tdSmall (3 colors)/td td£90/td /tr tr tdMedium (3 colors)/td td£180/td /tr tr tdLarge (3 color)/td td£250/td /tr /tbody /table *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
Disagree. Many shopping carts on the web have product lists or summarys marked up in a table. When you look at it from the point of view where one column is the products and the other is the price, and another is VAT per product its more semantic to do it that way. Again, just because something is a list does not mean it should be in a list. Take for example students grades. The school needs to list the name, the subject, the expected grade, the outcome (30/30) and a percentage (100%). You could easily say its a list of students grades, because it is, but you are not going to put that into a list because it would be wrong to. James On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:24 AM, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: A list is the most appropriate for a list. The fact that price list states list DOES mean a list should be used - when you use the term list that's what the user then expects it to be. If you don't want to use a list (for whatever pedantic reason) then don't call it one. If you want to use a table, call it a table. Not using a list when a list is appropriate is just as bad as not using a table when a table is appropriate. On Mon, August 11, 2008 9:31 am, silky wrote: On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 6:01 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the past I have tryed to avoid tables as much as possible and sometimes going as far as using lists for data that should be placed in tables. I am trying to sway away from the 'never use tables' crowd and have started to use them when they need to be used. I am working on a tattoo website and the client wants a list of pricing for tattoos and peircings. Would you say this is a good candidate for a table? use a table. those that say 'never use tables' are insane and often think that 'css' and 'tables' are mutually exclusive. i ignore those people. tables are perfectly appropriate for this situation. Although 'price list' states list, its not to say that a list should be used. Any ideas. James -- silky http://www.themonkeynet.com/armada/ http://www.boxofgoodfeelings.com/ http://www.themonkeynet.com/ http://lets.coozi.com.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
And the same can be said for my example where each row has data relating to the product, size, color info and price. On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: On Mon, August 11, 2008 10:38 am, James Jeffery wrote: Disagree. ... Again, just because something is a list does not mean it should be in a list. Take for example students grades. The school needs to list the name, the subject, the expected grade, the outcome (30/30) and a percentage (100%). You could easily say its a list of students grades, because it is, but you are not going to put that into a list because it would be wrong to. You could easily say its a list, but it's not. It's a table of related student data in which comparisons are made across the rows and down the columns. One compares across the rows for each student's results (expected, actual and percentage) and compares down columns for differences between students. Much more than a list. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
Even if it where product and price, as in my origional example, a table is still more semantic because the data in the rows relate to the columns i.e. product and price. On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:38 AM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And the same can be said for my example where each row has data relating to the product, size, color info and price. On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, August 11, 2008 10:38 am, James Jeffery wrote: Disagree. ... Again, just because something is a list does not mean it should be in a list. Take for example students grades. The school needs to list the name, the subject, the expected grade, the outcome (30/30) and a percentage (100%). You could easily say its a list of students grades, because it is, but you are not going to put that into a list because it would be wrong to. You could easily say its a list, but it's not. It's a table of related student data in which comparisons are made across the rows and down the columns. One compares across the rows for each student's results (expected, actual and percentage) and compares down columns for differences between students. Much more than a list. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
Rob, Yeah I have now after extensive research. I have headed the table with a caption and it uses a h3. There are various parent sections above the table that use h2 and h1. Cheers. On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Rob Enslin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James, sounds like you've answered your own question/doubt then? Perhaps you should head your 'list' as h1Prices/h1 and not h1Price List/h1? 2008/8/11 James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Disagree. Many shopping carts on the web have product lists or summarys marked up in a table. When you look at it from the point of view where one column is the products and the other is the price, and another is VAT per product its more semantic to do it that way. Again, just because something is a list does not mean it should be in a list. Take for example students grades. The school needs to list the name, the subject, the expected grade, the outcome (30/30) and a percentage (100%). You could easily say its a list of students grades, because it is, but you are not going to put that into a list because it would be wrong to. James On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:24 AM, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A list is the most appropriate for a list. The fact that price list states list DOES mean a list should be used - when you use the term list that's what the user then expects it to be. If you don't want to use a list (for whatever pedantic reason) then don't call it one. If you want to use a table, call it a table. Not using a list when a list is appropriate is just as bad as not using a table when a table is appropriate. On Mon, August 11, 2008 9:31 am, silky wrote: On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 6:01 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the past I have tryed to avoid tables as much as possible and sometimes going as far as using lists for data that should be placed in tables. I am trying to sway away from the 'never use tables' crowd and have started to use them when they need to be used. I am working on a tattoo website and the client wants a list of pricing for tattoos and peircings. Would you say this is a good candidate for a table? use a table. those that say 'never use tables' are insane and often think that 'css' and 'tables' are mutually exclusive. i ignore those people. tables are perfectly appropriate for this situation. Although 'price list' states list, its not to say that a list should be used. Any ideas. James -- silky http://www.themonkeynet.com/armada/ http://www.boxofgoodfeelings.com/ http://www.themonkeynet.com/ http://lets.coozi.com.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- / Rob Enslin / enslin.co.uk / twitter.com/robenslin / +44759 052 8890 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
Ian and Micheal, you summed up what I was about to write. Some people got really defensive. My argument all along was that a list should not always be marked up as a list as such. Take ebay for example, they even go to the extent of calling their results 'lists'. You can see this on results pages where it says view as list. Nobody says oh look here is my table of results on PS3's they say oh look at that long list of PS3 products, even though behind the scenes its a tables. It would be totally wrong for ebay to mark up their results as lists, but the way they are styled makes them look like lists to humans, though strictly they are not. So a list isn't always a list and my example above was what I was trying to get across. Great debate guys! as always :) James On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:46 AM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rob, Yeah I have now after extensive research. I have headed the table with a caption and it uses a h3. There are various parent sections above the table that use h2 and h1. Cheers. On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Rob Enslin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James, sounds like you've answered your own question/doubt then? Perhaps you should head your 'list' as h1Prices/h1 and not h1Price List/h1? 2008/8/11 James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Disagree. Many shopping carts on the web have product lists or summarys marked up in a table. When you look at it from the point of view where one column is the products and the other is the price, and another is VAT per product its more semantic to do it that way. Again, just because something is a list does not mean it should be in a list. Take for example students grades. The school needs to list the name, the subject, the expected grade, the outcome (30/30) and a percentage (100%). You could easily say its a list of students grades, because it is, but you are not going to put that into a list because it would be wrong to. James On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:24 AM, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A list is the most appropriate for a list. The fact that price list states list DOES mean a list should be used - when you use the term list that's what the user then expects it to be. If you don't want to use a list (for whatever pedantic reason) then don't call it one. If you want to use a table, call it a table. Not using a list when a list is appropriate is just as bad as not using a table when a table is appropriate. On Mon, August 11, 2008 9:31 am, silky wrote: On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 6:01 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the past I have tryed to avoid tables as much as possible and sometimes going as far as using lists for data that should be placed in tables. I am trying to sway away from the 'never use tables' crowd and have started to use them when they need to be used. I am working on a tattoo website and the client wants a list of pricing for tattoos and peircings. Would you say this is a good candidate for a table? use a table. those that say 'never use tables' are insane and often think that 'css' and 'tables' are mutually exclusive. i ignore those people. tables are perfectly appropriate for this situation. Although 'price list' states list, its not to say that a list should be used. Any ideas. James -- silky http://www.themonkeynet.com/armada/ http://www.boxofgoodfeelings.com/ http://www.themonkeynet.com/ http://lets.coozi.com.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- / Rob Enslin / enslin.co.uk / twitter.com/robenslin / +44759 052 8890 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: [WSG] Re: ARIA
Progressive enhancement and accessibility. Hmmm. I am not sure about this, I thought accessibility was about providing access to websites from all angles, not progressivly enhancing access to users with more up to date technology or browsers. Would it not be better to include ARIA markup in HTML5 rather than trying to adapt it to the current version of HTML? Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of ARIA. It just seems like another quick fix to plug the current problems. I can't imagine ARIA markup being used all that much anyway (I will use it, but I am talking about the majority of other developers). One of the reasons is because the majority of poor developers out there cannot be bothered to learn anything new and don't give a hoot about accessibility. The state of the web at the moment in terms of accessibility is poor anyway. I was speaking with a top PHP developer not so long back. He works for a company and is on serious money, and even he little idea about accessibility on the web. I think before we start implementing new ideas we need to inform the the current and the up and coming developers about accessibility. Its not my place to say what should and what shouldn't happen on the web, these are just my views. It kind of reminds me of microformats. A brilliant idea but underused by developers. I am just going to carry on learning, and hope that the ARIA reaches its goals and targets and doesn't get brushed under the carpet. James On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 10:01 AM, Laura Carlson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about browsers that don't support ARIA markup? Graceful degradation (if the page is well written). Or progressive enhancement. Some references: http://www.d.umn.edu/goto/javascript#access A good intro to WAI ARIA by Gez Lemon: http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/introduction-to-wai-aria/ Best Regards, Laura ___ Laura L. Carlson Information Technology Systems and Services University of Minnesota Duluth Duluth, MN U.S.A. 55812-3009 http://www.d.umn.edu/goto/webdesign/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] ARIA
Never really heard of ARIA until I came across it in a Web Development magazine (.net mag). I have just spent a few hours getting my head around it, and whilst I agree it looks useful for screen readers and such, isn't it less semantic? Applying attributes that would currently make your markup invalid is something which I am not happy about. Along with that, using span to create a checkbox seems less semantic than using form elements. Is ARIA markup only supposed to be used with browsers who have JS enabled or sites that use alot of JS for dynamic content? What about browsers that don't support ARIA markup? I'm only dipping my feet in the water at the moment so I probably don't fully understand, but from what I have read so far it seems a bit wishy washy at the moment. Any replies appreciated. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] AJAX and Clickable Elements
Just a quick question. I am developing my first Ajax application. It links in with google maps and will allow users to anonymously plot markers on a map with images. There will be various clickable items such as: Get All Markers which will return a list of links to markers plotted in a given area. I am struggling to decide on what element to use for the clickable element. If I use an a the href will contain a # and if I use a button I would need to create a form just to create a button that won't be sending any data, which seems overkill. Even though users with Javascript disabled wont be able to use the site, I don't want to push out standards, I still want to keep everything semantic and on the right path. Any Ideas? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] AJAX and Clickable Elements
*Why? Can't you have a sensible fallback (e.g. in case the user middle clicks to open in a new tab).* Because the data is going to be loaded into an element within the document dynamically. There would be no option to open it in a new tab. The loaded data will allow users to click on links that will take them to the spots on the map. The only fallback would be for users who don't have JS enabled, but without JS enabled the application is useless because it relies on JS to use the Google Maps API. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Pop-Ups (BOM)
What's your views on Pop-Ups? When I speak in terms of Pop-Ups I am referring to the alert type Pop-Ups that are a part of the Browser Object Model and NOT window Pop-Ups. The ones that are considered annoying! I personally do not think they are annoying when used in the right way. Google Mail uses them correctly. When you are writing an email and you decide to close the tab or move to another webpage it will alert you and ask you if you want to abandon the email you have spent 15 minutes writing and forgot to save as a draft. In the same way MS Word would ask you if you want to save an unsaved project. A good thing in my books. They are probably only best used in Ajax applications in certain situations when a users attention is needed. We have no problems using them in desktop applications so why not use them in web applications (I am talking about applications not web pages). I am only writing this because I see developers label Pop-Ups as annoying. Ganted, when used in the wrong way they are annoying, but you abuse anything (including tables) and it becomes annoying/wrong. To summarize, what's your views on Pop-Ups *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Browsers and Zooming
Are all browsers now using zooming to resize pages? I noticed FF2 wasn't using zooming but FF3 is and I know IE and Safari already do it. Any background information in this? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Marking Up Poems
On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 9:37 AM, Designer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matijs wrote: I have to agree with Elizabeth here. Semantically I'd say that this is one of the few occasions where a br/ would be appropriate. The verses would be paragraphs of course I did this a while back on a site for an author. I decided it was the best compromise between practicallity, readability and standards. I gave each verse a CSS class called 'stanza'. See: http://www.webscribe.fsnet.co.uk/chapters/c3summer.html Bob www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk From all the replies I have read through and from all the articles I have read up on, this is probably the best solution I came across. I would wrap the whole poem within a div, then each of the verses in a paragraph and the lines created using br /. Anyone against this method? and why? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Marking Up Poems
A question was raised at work today 'How do you mark up a poem'. I looked into it but found nothing worthy. My original thought was to use P's and class names, but one article I read said XML is perfect for this case. Whats your views on this, anyone actually did it before? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Marking Up Poems
True. I still think there should be a stanard set of elements to mark up poems though. Not checked if WG are doing anything in HTML 5 - i think they are. On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Michael Cordover [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would suggest that this is pre. Poetry is generally so display-specific that you couldn't hope to mark it up, I'd say. Michael On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 19:08, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A question was raised at work today 'How do you mark up a poem'. I looked into it but found nothing worthy. My original thought was to use P's and class names, but one article I read said XML is perfect for this case. Whats your views on this, anyone actually did it before? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Marking Up Poems
Just another resource for those interested: http://signified.com.au/a-poem-element-for-html5/ On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 10:53 AM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: True. I still think there should be a stanard set of elements to mark up poems though. Not checked if WG are doing anything in HTML 5 - i think they are. On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Michael Cordover [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would suggest that this is pre. Poetry is generally so display-specific that you couldn't hope to mark it up, I'd say. Michael On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 19:08, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A question was raised at work today 'How do you mark up a poem'. I looked into it but found nothing worthy. My original thought was to use P's and class names, but one article I read said XML is perfect for this case. Whats your views on this, anyone actually did it before? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Marking Up Poems
Very good! But I have to say they all sound the same. Did anyone spot any differences? I think there may have been a difference in the second one but can't be sure. On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Jon Tan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 19 Jun 2008, at 11:06, Jon Tan wrote: On 19 Jun 2008, at 10:08, James Jeffery wrote: A question was raised at work today 'How do you mark up a poem'. I looked into it but found nothing worthy. My original thought was to use P's and class names, but one article I read said XML is perfect for this case. [snip] It would be interesting to know how alternative browsers handle both br /s and single/double line breaks in pre blocks. Do they inject a pause or other aural boundary? Jon Gibbins (http://dotjay.co.uk) of GAWDS and Accessify forum has kindly run some screen reader tests on both p with br / and pre. He's also published the actual results as .MP3s: http://lab.dotjay.co.uk/tests/screen-readers/poetry/ Jon - http://jontangerine.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Duplicate Messages? Help!
I believe one of the messages gets sent back to yourself and the other is sent out to everyone one the list. In GMail it will group the emails, so you are infact getting 2, but this is normal. James On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Gregorio Espadas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. I realize that every time I send a message to WSG, I get two copies of that message in my Gmail Inbox. Does it just me? A bug of Gmail? Thanks in advance for the help. Also, I hope this message doesn't botter to the members of this excellent group. Gregorio Espadas http://espadas.com.mx *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Structuring CSS
There really needs to be a consistent method of sturucturing CSS personally. If i cram everything onto one file I feel like the structure of the website is not really effective and editing becomes a task. Most the time I will break up the CSS file into a few sections as standard and use Yahoo!'s reset stylesheet to reset elements. I am not a fan of framworks and like to invent my own naming conventions. CSS Structure - - Reset.css (Yahoo!) - Layout.css (positioning, margins, padding etc.) - Style.css (colours, borders, backgrounds etc.) - Typography (fonts) - Base.css (used to @import everything) I would like to break it up further but I do respect users on slower Internet connections. In all the CSS files you are usually repeating selectors which is generating uneeded code, but on the other hand I have found it useful and easier to edit. It's really good for bug hunting because when you need to find a bug thats messing up the layout, you can focus on a single file (most the time) and narrow down the scope until the bug is eliminated. I like the idea of a server-side stylesheet joiner. I am going to look into that. Keep the replies coming. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Structuring CSS
Lets have it. How are you guys structuring your CSS files? I have been having a think about this over the last few days. My research attempts have failed because most the articles i came across were outdated - so i tend not to trust them. One method i thought about (not sure if it's been coined) is one based on Software Engineering principles, obeying rules such as decoupling et cetera. Maybe by using these principles modules can be included by importing the needed CSS file (and path) in the root CSS file. As i am writing this i am certain CMS systems use this method of structuring CSS. I am sick to death of having to over comment my CSS files to find what it is i'm looking for. I would much rather break up my layout into semantic chunks and create a seperate CSS file for each chunk (i.e navigation, content, footer). I'm guessing this sort of structuring comes at a cost because a number of requests need to be made to the server. Regards James Jeffery *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript
Check my examples i posted and my recent posts, they show what i mean. I think in the case of this design it can work fine without the dropdown menu. On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 2:09 PM, Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: then you need to be aware at build time that when javascript off, and nested navigation is therefore expanded in order to provide equal access to features for people without dependence to javascript, the design needs to allow for this. having the nav overlap content is pretty unnecessary anyway. Sorry but bad design, planning and and architecture is not an excuse... You could, for example, not have it popout in the first place, negating the need to have an alternative solution for others. You could, also, for example, only show subnav within a section, negating the need for popouts. If your architecture is clear and obvious, and you have plenty of clear pointers to the content sections, the popout subnav becomes less necessary. On Jun 6 2008, at 16:18, Darren West wrote: Joe said: Therefore if javascript is off, any descended subnav should display in it's expanded state. I agree with this pattern for some scenerios, for example with tabbed panels, but (depending on the design) surely with drop down navigation it would cause usability issues with the expanded states for all drop downs overlapping each other and other content *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.typingthevoid.com www.joiz.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript
Not really because it cuts into UI design. But i see what you mean, i have it under control. On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 7:14 PM, Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cool design, maybe you could reveal the sublnks onClick? then keep the panel open and repopulate with the relevant links as you move over the navigation links. If you have the time/money in the project, it would be well worth doing user testing :-) We maybe veering away from the purpose of this mailing list 2008/6/6 James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The same image but with the content and withut the dropdown showing: http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=standard01qi5.png I think it might work without the dropdown. I will have to speak to the youth centre manager on Wednesday. James On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 5:34 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is an example of the NEW idea: http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/3992/standard01yo8.png This has got me thinking though. If there is going to be a sub navigation part on every page is there really any need for the dropdown? By adding the dropdown the only benefit the user will get is that they don't have to click twice to get to a section/sub page. For example to access Maypole Radio they select other services and click. Without it they would have to click Other Services and select from the static sub navigation menu. I am not sure if its going to be worth it in the end. Obviously the static sub navigation is going to be amust so that i can cover everything. The Suckerfish menu now seems useless in a way. If i leave it there it may add extra confusion to the navigation of the website. If you get what i mean. Cheers for the input so far. James On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 5:07 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With the pure CSS version, and using Javascript to take care of IE 5, you can ensure it will work with browsers with JS disabled. Thats why i chose to use the Suckerfish style dropdowns. Also you can add some extra behvaiour ontop of the pure CSS menu's. I think maybe the best solution would be to display sub link on the sub pages. Save all the hassle of using conditionals and stuff. I did think about doing it this way at first but then started wondering about user experience and possible confusion. It's always the simple approaches that tend to be the best. Thanks for your support fellow CSS'ers On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] On Behalf Of James Jeffery Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 2:49 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript Maybe i am being a little bit picky with this. I have a suckerfish dropdown, as i feel it is the best approach for cross-browser (but not A grade) dropdowns. The website i am working on is a youth centre's. The target audience is the community, which can be young or very old. The very old may be using IE 5 on older computers (at a guess). If they have JS disabled and are using IE 5 then they cannot view the navigation links. Whats your views on the best way around this? I was thinking about sing PHP to determine what browser the user is using and if JS is enabled. If its IE 5 and it is not enabled then when a user clicks a link from the navigation menu the page will load but under the navigation will be another div that lists the links uder that sub heading. - | nav nav nav nav nav nav nav | - | sub link sub link | | sub link sub link | | sub link sub link | - all the other content goes on as normal Only users who are using a browser that does not support the hover psudeo selector on anything other than a elements will see that box. It will be generated using PHP before the page loads. I was thinking about doing that for all the users, and have that displaying regardless, but that may add confusion to the user experience i feel. Anyone ideas? Hi James, I have these two: http://tjkdesign.com/articles/Pure_CSS_Dropdown_Menus.asp I believe they are compatible with ie5 Win and Mac But if you ask me, I'd say the best approach would be to use a good JS menu rather than a pure CSS solution. -- Regards, Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org
[WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript
Maybe i am being a little bit picky with this. I have a suckerfish dropdown, as i feel it is the best approach for cross-browser (but not A grade) dropdowns. The website i am working on is a youth centre's. The target audience is the community, which can be young or very old. The very old may be using IE 5 on older computers (at a guess). If they have JS disabled and are using IE 5 then they cannot view the navigation links. Whats your views on the best way around this? I was thinking about sing PHP to determine what browser the user is using and if JS is enabled. If its IE 5 and it is not enabled then when a user clicks a link from the navigation menu the page will load but under the navigation will be another div that lists the links uder that sub heading. - | nav nav nav nav nav nav nav | - | sub link sub link | | sub link sub link | | sub link sub link | - all the other content goes on as normal Only users who are using a browser that does not support the hover psudeo selector on anything other than a elements will see that box. It will be generated using PHP before the page loads. I was thinking about doing that for all the users, and have that displaying regardless, but that may add confusion to the user experience i feel. Anyone ideas? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Mixing CSS3 and CSS2
I am very excited about the audio and video elements in HTML 5. I have
been playing with them for a while. Only browser that seems to support it
... sort of ... is Safari (im using an iMac).
Just means i will have to dedicate a few months of solid learning when HTML
5 and CSS 3 is actually released. HTML 5 will be easy to learn, its just
elements and understanding what they are used for and where to use them.
I am guessing CSS 3 is going to be a bit trickier but not to difficult as i
am already fluent in CSS 2.1.
On 6/6/08, Keryx Web [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Rahul Gonsalves skrev:
#foo {
border: 1px solid fuscia;
-moz-border-radius: 0.5em;
-webkit-border-radius: 0.5em;
border-radius: 0.5em;
}
This will ensure that browsers like IE6/IE7 only see the first line
(border...) and draw a straight box around #foo. Slightly smarter browsers
like Camino/Firefox 2/Safari 2 will get the the engine-specific rules
(-moz/-webkit) and all CSS3-supporting browsers (Safari3, Firefox3, IE8(?)
etc) get the last line and give you a pretty rounded corner.
Good advice, but a bit optimistic about the implementations.
Firefox 3.0 does not support border-radius, perhaps in Firefox 3.1. [1].
There are still at least one unsettled issue in the spec (proposed soultion
in editors draft).[2] However, unsolved implementation issues when combined
with gradients and non-solid borders, seem to be fixed from in FFox 3.[3]
Safari 3.1 does not support border-radius without the -webkit prefix.
Here is a nice test from webkit's bugzilla (using prefixes for both webkit
and moz): https://bugs.webkit.org/attachment.cgi?id=8633
Try it in both FFox 3 and Safari 3.1 and you'll see some inconsistencies.
Enough to drive a designer crazy.
Both Webkit and Gecko use the Cairo library (except on Mac OS), so their
rendering will probably be very close to each other in the future.
MSIE 8 is supposed to get full CSS 2.1 support. CSS 3 is not really on the
table, according to the announcements. Now that a lot of modules have moved
much closer to REC-status the pressure to implement them is of course
higher.
There is a a ton of goodness coming up in FFox 3, including full support
for CSS 3 selectors, media queries, HTML 5 audio and video, etc. I am
actually looking more forward to 3.1 than 3.0 as a developer. (But I can't
live without the awesomebar, so as a user 3.0 is great...)
Lars Gunther
1. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=431176
2. http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-background/#the-border-radius
3. Compare this page in FFox 2 and FFox 3:
http://ne.keryx.se/cssdemo/testa_css3.php
4.
http://www.css3.info/firefox-31-is-the-latest-to-pass-our-selectors-test/
(See also D Glazmans test: Six errors in Safari 3.1, one in FFox 3.1
version of Minefield, **zero** in Opera 9.5 beta, build 10048. I have not
tested nightly Webkit.)
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Re: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript
No i havn't herd of prog. enhancement. See you do learn something new everyday. Thanks. On 6/6/08, Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James, Have you heard of progressive enhancement? - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Enhancement I would link all the 'nav' items to root pages that include the sub links so if JS is unavailable a usable experience is provided for all, then if JS is available, enhance the experience by displaying the 'sub links' in a dropdown ... Darren *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript
With the pure CSS version, and using Javascript to take care of IE 5, you can ensure it will work with browsers with JS disabled. Thats why i chose to use the Suckerfish style dropdowns. Also you can add some extra behvaiour ontop of the pure CSS menu's. I think maybe the best solution would be to display sub link on the sub pages. Save all the hassle of using conditionals and stuff. I did think about doing it this way at first but then started wondering about user experience and possible confusion. It's always the simple approaches that tend to be the best. Thanks for your support fellow CSS'ers On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Jeffery Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 2:49 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript Maybe i am being a little bit picky with this. I have a suckerfish dropdown, as i feel it is the best approach for cross-browser (but not A grade) dropdowns. The website i am working on is a youth centre's. The target audience is the community, which can be young or very old. The very old may be using IE 5 on older computers (at a guess). If they have JS disabled and are using IE 5 then they cannot view the navigation links. Whats your views on the best way around this? I was thinking about sing PHP to determine what browser the user is using and if JS is enabled. If its IE 5 and it is not enabled then when a user clicks a link from the navigation menu the page will load but under the navigation will be another div that lists the links uder that sub heading. - | nav nav nav nav nav nav nav | - | sub link sub link | | sub link sub link | | sub link sub link | - all the other content goes on as normal Only users who are using a browser that does not support the hover psudeo selector on anything other than a elements will see that box. It will be generated using PHP before the page loads. I was thinking about doing that for all the users, and have that displaying regardless, but that may add confusion to the user experience i feel. Anyone ideas? Hi James, I have these two: http://tjkdesign.com/articles/Pure_CSS_Dropdown_Menus.asp I believe they are compatible with ie5 Win and Mac But if you ask me, I'd say the best approach would be to use a good JS menu rather than a pure CSS solution. -- Regards, Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript
Here is an example of the NEW idea: http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/3992/standard01yo8.png This has got me thinking though. If there is going to be a sub navigation part on every page is there really any need for the dropdown? By adding the dropdown the only benefit the user will get is that they don't have to click twice to get to a section/sub page. For example to access Maypole Radio they select other services and click. Without it they would have to click Other Services and select from the static sub navigation menu. I am not sure if its going to be worth it in the end. Obviously the static sub navigation is going to be amust so that i can cover everything. The Suckerfish menu now seems useless in a way. If i leave it there it may add extra confusion to the navigation of the website. If you get what i mean. Cheers for the input so far. James On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 5:07 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With the pure CSS version, and using Javascript to take care of IE 5, you can ensure it will work with browsers with JS disabled. Thats why i chose to use the Suckerfish style dropdowns. Also you can add some extra behvaiour ontop of the pure CSS menu's. I think maybe the best solution would be to display sub link on the sub pages. Save all the hassle of using conditionals and stuff. I did think about doing it this way at first but then started wondering about user experience and possible confusion. It's always the simple approaches that tend to be the best. Thanks for your support fellow CSS'ers On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Jeffery Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 2:49 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript Maybe i am being a little bit picky with this. I have a suckerfish dropdown, as i feel it is the best approach for cross-browser (but not A grade) dropdowns. The website i am working on is a youth centre's. The target audience is the community, which can be young or very old. The very old may be using IE 5 on older computers (at a guess). If they have JS disabled and are using IE 5 then they cannot view the navigation links. Whats your views on the best way around this? I was thinking about sing PHP to determine what browser the user is using and if JS is enabled. If its IE 5 and it is not enabled then when a user clicks a link from the navigation menu the page will load but under the navigation will be another div that lists the links uder that sub heading. - | nav nav nav nav nav nav nav | - | sub link sub link | | sub link sub link | | sub link sub link | - all the other content goes on as normal Only users who are using a browser that does not support the hover psudeo selector on anything other than a elements will see that box. It will be generated using PHP before the page loads. I was thinking about doing that for all the users, and have that displaying regardless, but that may add confusion to the user experience i feel. Anyone ideas? Hi James, I have these two: http://tjkdesign.com/articles/Pure_CSS_Dropdown_Menus.asp I believe they are compatible with ie5 Win and Mac But if you ask me, I'd say the best approach would be to use a good JS menu rather than a pure CSS solution. -- Regards, Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript
The same image but with the content and withut the dropdown showing: http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=standard01qi5.png I think it might work without the dropdown. I will have to speak to the youth centre manager on Wednesday. James On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 5:34 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is an example of the NEW idea: http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/3992/standard01yo8.png This has got me thinking though. If there is going to be a sub navigation part on every page is there really any need for the dropdown? By adding the dropdown the only benefit the user will get is that they don't have to click twice to get to a section/sub page. For example to access Maypole Radio they select other services and click. Without it they would have to click Other Services and select from the static sub navigation menu. I am not sure if its going to be worth it in the end. Obviously the static sub navigation is going to be amust so that i can cover everything. The Suckerfish menu now seems useless in a way. If i leave it there it may add extra confusion to the navigation of the website. If you get what i mean. Cheers for the input so far. James On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 5:07 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With the pure CSS version, and using Javascript to take care of IE 5, you can ensure it will work with browsers with JS disabled. Thats why i chose to use the Suckerfish style dropdowns. Also you can add some extra behvaiour ontop of the pure CSS menu's. I think maybe the best solution would be to display sub link on the sub pages. Save all the hassle of using conditionals and stuff. I did think about doing it this way at first but then started wondering about user experience and possible confusion. It's always the simple approaches that tend to be the best. Thanks for your support fellow CSS'ers On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Jeffery Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 2:49 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript Maybe i am being a little bit picky with this. I have a suckerfish dropdown, as i feel it is the best approach for cross-browser (but not A grade) dropdowns. The website i am working on is a youth centre's. The target audience is the community, which can be young or very old. The very old may be using IE 5 on older computers (at a guess). If they have JS disabled and are using IE 5 then they cannot view the navigation links. Whats your views on the best way around this? I was thinking about sing PHP to determine what browser the user is using and if JS is enabled. If its IE 5 and it is not enabled then when a user clicks a link from the navigation menu the page will load but under the navigation will be another div that lists the links uder that sub heading. - | nav nav nav nav nav nav nav | - | sub link sub link | | sub link sub link | | sub link sub link | - all the other content goes on as normal Only users who are using a browser that does not support the hover psudeo selector on anything other than a elements will see that box. It will be generated using PHP before the page loads. I was thinking about doing that for all the users, and have that displaying regardless, but that may add confusion to the user experience i feel. Anyone ideas? Hi James, I have these two: http://tjkdesign.com/articles/Pure_CSS_Dropdown_Menus.asp I believe they are compatible with ie5 Win and Mac But if you ask me, I'd say the best approach would be to use a good JS menu rather than a pure CSS solution. -- Regards, Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: [WSG] Mixing CSS3 and CSS2
I see. If i place the CSS3 background property before the CSS2 background property, will the CSS3 declaration win over the CSS2 one if browsers support CSS3 and if not, then the CSS2 declaration will be used? Thanks On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 6:38 AM, David Dorward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 30 May 2008, at 23:30, James Jeffery wrote: I want to use CSS3 to create rounded corners but provide CSS2 markup for browsers that don't support it. Whats the best way to go about this? Taking a guess i would say use a CSS3 specific selector, so browsers that understand the selector will understand the code, those that don't won't. No, since support for rounded corners and support for CSS 3 selectors do not come hand in hand. Just use the property as normal, browsers that don't support it will ignore it. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Margin or Float error?
Call me dumb but i am really stumped on this.
If you look through my source you will see i have added a transparent border
to the bottom of #main-navigation and #welcome. Without adding the border
the margins added to ul#article-summary-list (top margin) and the
#main-navigation (bottom margin) are not affected. Im on my new iMac (he he)
using firefox.
Stumped. Here is the source. Copy and paste it as its bare bones anyway:
---
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN
http://w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd;
html lang=en
head
titleMaypole Youth Centre/title
style type=text/css
/* Globals */
html * {margin: 0; padding: 0;}
body
{
/* 62.5% works out to about 10px, which is good for
sizing things up. 16px/100 x 62.5 = 10 */
font: normal normal 62.5%/1.5 Arial, sans-serif;
width: 80em;
margin: 0 auto;
}
ul {list-style: none;}
/** Layout and Sizing **/
#main-navigation
{
margin: 4em 0;
/* Note: Not sure if this is a fix, but it worked. Scope
out an alternative method ... If one exists.
Problem: Needed to apply overflow:hidden; to this element
but was not possible because of the way i did the dropdown
menu, if i added the O.F it would have hidden the content
from the sub menu dropdown.
Without any fix the H1 (used for testing) was not affected
by the top and bottom margin values that are set above. */
border: 1px solid transparent;
}
#main-navigation li
{
position: relative;
float: left;
width: 13.3em;
height: 2em;
}
#main-navigation li a
{
display: block;
}
#sub-navigation
{
position: absolute;
top: 2em;
left: 0;
}
#main-content
{
overflow: hidden;
}
#welcome
{
float: left;
width: 40%;
border-bottom: 1px solid transparent;
}
#youtube-video-list
{
float: right;
width: 60%;
}
ul#article-summary-list
{
margin-top: 200px;
clear: both;
position: relative;
}
.article-summary
{
}
/* When the menu isn't in use hide the sub menu's */
.sub-navigation
{
display: none;
}
/* When the user hovers over a superlink, display
the list of sublinks.
Note: Needs to be tested in older browsers. Not
sure off hand if :hover works on list elements in
IE5.5 and IE6. */
#main-navigation li:hover ul
{
display: block;
}
/** Style, color and text **/
#main-navigation li
{
text-align: center;
}
/style
/head
body
!-- Navigation Block :: Appears at the top of the page !--
ul id=main-navigation
li id=firsta href=#Homepage/a/li
lia href=#About Us/a
ul class=sub-navigation
lia href=#The MPC/a/li
lia href=#The Staff/a/li
lia href=#In The Press/a/li
/ul
/li
lia href=#Projects/a
ul class=sub-navigation
lia href=#Adventures/a/li
lia href=#Cycling/a/li
lia href=#Detached Work/a/li
lia href=#Action Group/a/li
lia href=#MYFC/a/li
lia href=#Saturday Club/a/li
/ul
/li
lia href=#Community Boards/a/li
lia href=#Other Services/a
ul class=sub-navigation
lia href=#Maypole Juniors/a/li
lia href=#Studio Practice/a/li
/ul
/li
li id=lasta href=#Contact Us/a/li
/ul
!-- Navigation Block End !--
!-- Main Content Area !--
div id=main-content
div id=welcome
h1Welcome to the Maypole Centre/h1
pThe Maypole Centre has been providing the young people of
Maypole and Druids Heath with
educational services and projects to inspire and develop.
Our aim is to tackle drugs and
crime through education and learning. The key is giving
young people hope, prospects and a
potential future./p
pPete Norman, spanYouth Centre Manager/span/p
/div
div id=youtube-video-list
h2YouTube Video List (Eventually)/h2
/div
ul id=article-summary-list
li class=article-summary
Re: [WSG] Margin or Float error?
Thanks for the fix.
Is this a known bug then? If so whats the bug called?
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:54 PM, Kepler Gelotte
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi James,
You may want to try this instead:
style type=text/css
/* Globals */
html * {margin: 0; padding: 0;}
body
{
/* 62.5% works out to about 10px, which is good for
sizing things up. 16px/100 x 62.5 = 10 */
font: normal normal 62.5%/1.5 Arial, sans-serif;
width: 80em;
margin: 0 auto;
}
ul {list-style: none;}
/** Layout and Sizing **/
#main-navigation
{
height: 1%;
margin: 4em 0;
}
#main-navigation li
{
position: relative;
float: left;
width: 13.3em;
height: 2em;
}
#main-navigation li a
{
display: block;
}
#sub-navigation
{
position: absolute;
top: 2em;
left: 0;
}
#main-content
{
overflow: hidden;
}
#welcome
{
float: left;
width: 40%;
}
#youtube-video-list
{
float: right;
width: 60%;
}
ul#article-summary-list
{
clear: both;
float: left;
width: 100%;
margin-top: 20px;
}
.article-summary
{
}
/* When the menu isn't in use hide the sub menu's */
.sub-navigation
{
display: none;
}
/* When the user hovers over a superlink, display
the list of sublinks.
Note: Needs to be tested in older browsers. Not
sure off hand if :hover works on list elements in
IE5.5 and IE6. */
#main-navigation li:hover ul
{
display: block;
}
/** Style, color and text **/
#main-navigation li
{
text-align: center;
}
/style
Best regards,
*Kepler Gelotte*
Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.
156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854
www.neighborwebmaster.com
phone/fax: (732) 302-0904
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Re: [WSG] AJAX short courses london
Only problem with the Lynda.com DVDs is sometimes they can be outdated. Although, this one is £50 and looks good. I might actually buy this, i like watching the movies when in bed. http://movielibrary.lynda.com/html/modPage.asp?ID=480 On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 9:51 PM, Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree. I have rarely seen any course in web technologies that you couldn't get further for much less money with either a video tutorial from places like lynda.com or from good how to books from great publishers like new riders, friends of ed, o'reilleys, etc. you can study at your own pace, replay and review difficult bits, skip over others, and the resource stays with you.. On May 27 2008, at 05:28, Jennie K wrote: If you are not after accreditation try this website www.lynda.com - it's all online and you study at your own pace. I've recommended the training to numerous people and they have all said it is of good quality. You can try some of the free courses before committing - there are also books and cds if you don't like the online version. On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 11:20 PM, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I hope this is on topic. I'm trying to find a short course on AJAX in london and having troubles finding one that is of a reasonable price (IE- less than £300 for a half day). Could anyone recommend me one or possibly a good school to look into? Thanks for any help, Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.typingthevoid.com www.joiz.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Mixing CSS3 and CSS2
I want to use CSS3 to create rounded corners but provide CSS2 markup for browsers that don't support it. Whats the best way to go about this? Taking a guess i would say use a CSS3 specific selector, so browsers that understand the selector will understand the code, those that don't won't. But then comes the question. Should the CSS3 come before the CSS2? Advice please. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] My Website query
If i remember right, Marvin is blind. If this is correct i am amazed that you managed to produce a website and think that is worth meritt for starters. Marvin i will email you off list regarding an article i would like to write including some of your work. On 5/23/08, Jason Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Marvin, Your website has some major design issues that you should probably address. For starters, your background wallpaper really reduces legibility, and the dark green doesn't show up very well against the black. Also, all of your navigation links are illegible at their current font size, I have to increase the font size at least 3 times before the navigation becomes remotely legible (this is probably because you're using percentages, and at values less than 100%). Consider using em, px, or pt values instead of percentages - if you do use percentages, consider 100% you're base value and only go higher for larger text (ie, 120%, 140%, 160%, etc). There are also some copyright issues with your site in that you're using some images like the Ford logo and a Star Trek wallpaper likely without permission and without copyright or trademark indications. Be very careful about just taking images from other websites and using them as your own. You might also want to develop some content for your website before you make it live. There doesn't seem to much there. Cheers, Jason On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Marvin Hunkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. 1. well, need to download the ati radian display drivers for this Del Latitude laptop. so that is why jaws not reading properly. 2. now, could you take a look at my site, and let me know, how to increase the font, or maybe change it from percentage font size to actual font point size. if you have any vision, or maybe ask some sighted colleagues or friends, what sizes, for all elements on the page do i need to change it to? maybe you have some web designers, you know. if i download jaws 9.1, what performance would i get out of this upgrade? any use to download and install this one? 3. now, was wondering, could you take a look at my 80s history page. if my parents stumbled on to it, might get the fourth degree. so can you take a look at the content, and maybe suggest, how i could maybe tone down the information, or tone down the way the text is written to be more appealing to those reading it, and maybe even be a bit more conservative. 4. now, looking for some accessability tools to check to see if my pages pass all vallidation, for people with all sorts of disabilities, like colour blind, colour dependent, flickering, and passes all vallidation via w3c, and also section 508. can you suggest some tools, and also, to check for correct colour, broken links, and maybe off line, as not always on the net, so i could download and run andcheck off line, as editing off line at the moment. if you can help, or pass on my message maybe to some of those that you do know, that could help, let me know asap. 5. Now, when i read using the paragraph mode, when i go to my headings and list of links, the navigation and the Other links, read all in one list, but on the Star Trek Links , they read one at a time using paragraph mode. How can i get all the links to read the same on the page? cheers Marvin. -- http://startrekcafe.stevesdomain.net/ http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/JawsOz/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] AJAX short courses london
Paul, For £100 you can get a selection of books that would teach the basics and go beyond a short course. You can also purchase a DVD package for around $200 (try CBT Nuggets). If you buy DVDs ensure they are up to date. James On 5/22/08, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I hope this is on topic. I'm trying to find a short course on AJAX in london and having troubles finding one that is of a reasonable price (IE- less than £300 for a half day). Could anyone recommend me one or possibly a good school to look into? Thanks for any help, Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] AJAX short courses london
Oh, and the Internet has tons of free places to learn. Join an IRC channel, thats where the Guru's live. On 5/22/08, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I hope this is on topic. I'm trying to find a short course on AJAX in london and having troubles finding one that is of a reasonable price (IE- less than £300 for a half day). Could anyone recommend me one or possibly a good school to look into? Thanks for any help, Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PHP Standards
There are a number of ways to get tasks done on the intnernet. Some hard core programmers would use plain old C and CGI. As for PHP Standards, follow the manual and best practices. Get a book on design patterns, especially the one by the Gang Of Four, as these patterns can crossover to the majority of programming languages. There are also plenty of MVC (Model-View-Controller) frameworks such as cakePHP and Symphony. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Embed a flash file 100%
I had a quick peek but im having problems with this browser at college so i can't help until i get home Nice site btw. On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 5:49 PM, Laert Jansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, thanks a lot. Here´s what I´m working on http://www.laertjansen.com/zecafreitas/ Would you mind to take a look? :) I have a problem. The flash is the black portion only and it should be at the top...I mean, there should not exist that white area.any ideia of what am I doing wrong? thanks a lot On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 4:11 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SWFObject is currently the best way to go about embedding flash. On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Michael Persson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Laert, have a look at www.staff-jeans.com where I have a full flash site wit ha full flash independent on the screen size... Michael Hello everyone. well, I´d like to know what´s the right way to embed a flash file into the html without tables. The flash file is 100% width and height. Thanks a lot Laert -- Laert Jansen www.laertjansen.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Laert Jansen www.laertjansen.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Embed a flash file 100%
SWFObject is currently the best way to go about embedding flash. On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Michael Persson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Laert, have a look at www.staff-jeans.com where I have a full flash site wit ha full flash independent on the screen size... Michael Hello everyone. well, I´d like to know what´s the right way to embed a flash file into the html without tables. The flash file is 100% width and height. Thanks a lot Laert -- Laert Jansen www.laertjansen.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] YouTube API
Morning all, Not really used the API much, but im digging into it. I was thinking, would it be worth setting up a .php library (and maybe a .js), object-orientated obviously. For example, someone wanting to get a list of video's from a users account can do something like: $yt-usr-list = new userUploads(VIDEO_ID); $yt-usr-list-getList(25, DESC); Which would list a list of 25 videos, with names and links in descending order. I'm open to comments on this. I feel it could benefit developers and nobody has yet done it. The library could also include functions that are not included in the YouTube API, which would require alot of hard work! I have set up the blog, so if anyone wants to post a comment off-list, get involved or check on planning development: www.ytphplib.blogspot.com . Throw em' at me. (something like this may already exists, i couldn't find anything) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] YouTube API
VIDEO_ID should be USER_ID My bad ... just woke up with my little idea :P On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:03 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Morning all, Not really used the API much, but im digging into it. I was thinking, would it be worth setting up a .php library (and maybe a .js), object-orientated obviously. For example, someone wanting to get a list of video's from a users account can do something like: $yt-usr-list = new userUploads(VIDEO_ID); $yt-usr-list-getList(25, DESC); Which would list a list of 25 videos, with names and links in descending order. I'm open to comments on this. I feel it could benefit developers and nobody has yet done it. The library could also include functions that are not included in the YouTube API, which would require alot of hard work! I have set up the blog, so if anyone wants to post a comment off-list, get involved or check on planning development: www.ytphplib.blogspot.com . Throw em' at me. (something like this may already exists, i couldn't find anything) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] JS Image Slider
Yeah i understand that, i agree totally. One member said create a scrolling block with CSS for users that have JS disabled. I said that wouldn't be ideal. I only want to serve up large quanitites of images to users that have JS enabled. If i server up large quantities when JS isn't enabled then that means users who also have CSS disabled would get a large list of images. Could cause problems. I would rather serve up 3 images in the block and use JS (and DOM) to add more images and provide the scroll feature. If JS is disabled, only 3 'recent upload' images get displayed. But saying that there could be the case when a user has JS enabled and not CSS, which would still display the long list of images. On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:10 PM, Joseph Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An example? Text-only browsers. No visual styles! However, a list of images is exactly what you're serving to the visitor, right? Ugly, yes. Semantically correct? Quite. Furthermore, I'm willing to bet that plenty of text-only users frequently encounter lists of images and wouldn't be thrown off by it. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Andrew Freedman wrote: James Jeffery provided the following information on 30/04/2008 12:27 AM: that will mean that users without CSS will get a bunch of images in a list You have users that block CSS?? I have never come across that. Can you give an instance as to where and why you would cater for these visitors? Thanks. Andrew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] JS Image Slider
Hi Andrew Dont worry im not considering those rare users :P On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Andrew Maben [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 30, 2008, at 7:17 AM, James Jeffery wrote: could be the case when a user has JS enabled and not CSS I'm having a hard time picturing the circumstances that would prompt a user to choose this option - surely, if such a case does indeed exist, it must rare as ... (pick your cliche). Maximising accessibility is a worthy goal, but surely there comes a point where the benefit to one audience segment is outweighed by the harm to another segment when a feature is disabled. If I were you I wouldn't let your concern for this case hold you back from what looks to me like a very elegant solution - one that I'm fairly sure I'm going to find myself imitating sooner than later, so thanks in advance! Andrew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE8 beta's a nightmare
Microsoft should save themselves all the hassle and use the Geko engine. There IE still gets shipped with every version of Windows. They have created a nice operating system for general users and by changing their engine to an open source one is not going to decrease sales in their O/S. This isn't the end of the IE bugs. I can put my house on it there will be more to come. On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:04 AM, Sam Sherlock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: looks like another quagmire is about to open up; funny how I still feel that I am getting over ie6 2008/4/29 Dave Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Don't fix or change anything in your site to be compatible with a beta version. The beta version is available so that developers can report problems to Microsoft so that any bugs can be fixed for the final release. By changing your code now, you're likely to find that you'll need to change it again when the final release of IE8 is made available. If you're already getting a significant number of IE8 users (which is probably unlikely) then do as Rahul suggests and use the meta tag to force IE7 rendering mode. Hope that helps? Dave -- http://www.dave-woods.co.uk 2008/4/29 Rahul Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 29-Apr-08, at 12:40 PM, Jens-Uwe Korff wrote: we just did some testing of our sites in IE8 beta and got some ahhhs and ohhhs - not because of its standard compliance, rather because all sites seem to be broken: logos disappeared, elements misplaced, Google maps blown up, etc. Dare I say: meta http-equiv=X-UA-Compatible content=IE=7 / Does that not give you enough time to fix the issues with the new layout engine and then remove it/set it to content=IE=8? Or have I misunderstood how IE works? I frequently do. Best, - Rahul. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE8 beta's a nightmare
Ha Ha, i like name inferior explorer. Maybe someone should set up the domain name and allow people to comment on I.E for MS to see. I've said it many times, MS try to outdo the competition and invent their own mad functions and methods of doing things. You have Mozilla that are promoting a standard and you have MS who are following (to some extent) the standard and also inventing their own. What developer on this planet is going to take advantage of a feature thats been put into IE and not Mozilla, or any other browser engine for that matter. Thats like giving one user one thing and another user another. They are going to slice their own heads off. I hate to get into the Unix vs. Windows debate but for reasons like this and others related to MS inventing their own standards, Linux will eventually take over. Didn't MS try to invent their own version of XML, or something like that? I remember seeing a petition in college about it. On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:35 AM, Sam Sherlock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ideas stuff and various work right off the bat with ff and opera tweaking ie can go on for weeks and often requires loads of compromises the list of issues with ie browsers hurts my noggin I can't see m$ using geko though (it would be admitting the competition is better) I wish they would, shame it would be better for everyone should be forever reffered to as inferior explorer :) - S 2008/4/29 James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Microsoft should save themselves all the hassle and use the Geko engine. There IE still gets shipped with every version of Windows. They have created a nice operating system for general users and by changing their engine to an open source one is not going to decrease sales in their O/S. This isn't the end of the IE bugs. I can put my house on it there will be more to come. On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:04 AM, Sam Sherlock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: looks like another quagmire is about to open up; funny how I still feel that I am getting over ie6 2008/4/29 Dave Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Don't fix or change anything in your site to be compatible with a beta version. The beta version is available so that developers can report problems to Microsoft so that any bugs can be fixed for the final release. By changing your code now, you're likely to find that you'll need to change it again when the final release of IE8 is made available. If you're already getting a significant number of IE8 users (which is probably unlikely) then do as Rahul suggests and use the meta tag to force IE7 rendering mode. Hope that helps? Dave -- http://www.dave-woods.co.uk 2008/4/29 Rahul Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 29-Apr-08, at 12:40 PM, Jens-Uwe Korff wrote: we just did some testing of our sites in IE8 beta and got some ahhhs and ohhhs - not because of its standard compliance, rather because all sites seem to be broken: logos disappeared, elements misplaced, Google maps blown up, etc. Dare I say: meta http-equiv=X-UA-Compatible content=IE=7 / Does that not give you enough time to fix the issues with the new layout engine and then remove it/set it to content=IE=8? Or have I misunderstood how IE works? I frequently do. Best, - Rahul. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] JS Image Slider
Im looking on creating an image slider. Basically a 400px x 200px box that you can slide along and reveal more images. They will hold the 'latest' image uploads. Each slide will have about 4-5 images, you scoll accross and you view more. I want to do this so that users without Javascript enabled can still see the images. Would it be best to create the box and to start with display the first 4-5 images and if JS is disabled then they get the first few. The images are selected at random from the new galleries. If the user has JS enabled then they can view all the images. There will be a limit of 15 images in the slider box. I can load the images into an array using PHP and then use JS to extract the images that wouldn't get displayed if the user has JS disabled. Anyone got any views on it? I was looking at the Yahoo Design Pattern for a similar thing. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] JS Image Slider
I considered the using CSS to recreate the effect for users without Javascript enabled, but if i use CSS that will mean that users without CSS will get a bunch of images in a list, which may not be relevant to them. Im assuming (only assuming) that the majority of visitors that will visit the site with CSS disabled are on a screen reader, so these images won't be needed by them. Its for a youth centre, so i have to keep that in mind you see. Thanks for the advice. On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 3:07 PM, Joseph Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The non-js version could also hold all the images and the css overflow property could be used to force a little scroll bar to scroll through them, almost re-creating the effect your going for. JS would step in to improve... What your saying is fine too. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] James Jeffery wrote: Im looking on creating an image slider. Basically a 400px x 200px box that you can slide along and reveal more images. They will hold the 'latest' image uploads. Each slide will have about 4-5 images, you scoll accross and you view more. I want to do this so that users without Javascript enabled can still see the images. Would it be best to create the box and to start with display the first 4-5 images and if JS is disabled then they get the first few. The images are selected at random from the new galleries. If the user has JS enabled then they can view all the images. There will be a limit of 15 images in the slider box. I can load the images into an array using PHP and then use JS to extract the images that wouldn't get displayed if the user has JS disabled. Anyone got any views on it? I was looking at the Yahoo Design Pattern for a similar thing. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] JS Image Slider
Here is an image of what i mean for everyone else. I have quickly knocked up a youtube box and placed it where it will go on the site. http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3558/newmcvm5.png Theres actually on 3 images per slide. Thanks On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 3:27 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I considered the using CSS to recreate the effect for users without Javascript enabled, but if i use CSS that will mean that users without CSS will get a bunch of images in a list, which may not be relevant to them. Im assuming (only assuming) that the majority of visitors that will visit the site with CSS disabled are on a screen reader, so these images won't be needed by them. Its for a youth centre, so i have to keep that in mind you see. Thanks for the advice. On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 3:07 PM, Joseph Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The non-js version could also hold all the images and the css overflow property could be used to force a little scroll bar to scroll through them, almost re-creating the effect your going for. JS would step in to improve... What your saying is fine too. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] James Jeffery wrote: Im looking on creating an image slider. Basically a 400px x 200px box that you can slide along and reveal more images. They will hold the 'latest' image uploads. Each slide will have about 4-5 images, you scoll accross and you view more. I want to do this so that users without Javascript enabled can still see the images. Would it be best to create the box and to start with display the first 4-5 images and if JS is disabled then they get the first few. The images are selected at random from the new galleries. If the user has JS enabled then they can view all the images. There will be a limit of 15 images in the slider box. I can load the images into an array using PHP and then use JS to extract the images that wouldn't get displayed if the user has JS disabled. Anyone got any views on it? I was looking at the Yahoo Design Pattern for a similar thing. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Question on YUI
Morning all, I have never used YUI but i thought i might aswell give it a shot on my latest project, afterall the tools are there to save time. The problem is though their layouts, some of the ones i was looking at are heavy on Javascript. Call me wrong but from my knowledge relying soley on JavaScript and JSON for a menu is a bad idea when accessibility is concerned. Do they expect the users to create alternatives for users who would not be using Javascipt? The example that i quickly looked over is: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/menu/topnavfromjswithanim.html *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] valid video in (x)html?
A google search pulls up alot of results: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=enq=embedding+youtube+valid+htmlmeta= Try those. On 4/28/08, Designer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have had a request from a client to include a video on a website. I know nothing about this, except for a simple embedding from youtube. Sadly, the page doesn't validate if I do that. Has anyone any experience of producing a standard (accessible?) video into a web page? I've googled, but not found anything useful. I've done it with Flash by using Bert Stern's method: object data=sitegraphics/creditsv2.swf width=566 height=389 type=application/x-shockwave-flash param name=movie value=sitegraphics/creditsv2.swf / param name=quality value=high / param name=bgcolor value=#fff / a href= http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,29,0 img src=sitegraphics/credits.jpg alt=Credits graphic, for those without flash / /a /object But video seems to be more problematic? I'd be really grateful for any help here. Many thanks, Bob www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Standard for committing changes to a database?
Let the user modify the data and submit any changes. Its how most applications work and its what the users are used to. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Dreamweaver CS3
I've been thinking about buying the new version of Photoshop and Illustrator, as i just purchased a new dual core iMac. Currently i use BBEdit but im thinking about switching to Dreamweaver as i might aswell purchase the creative suite. Is the new dreamweaver any good for us developers? This may not seem related to web standards but i feel it does because back when i used dreamweaver - it was the days when it bloated out your code and caused friction for many developers. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Test Plans
Hi All. Im not familiar with test plans for Websites, i have my own way of running tests that usually run of what the client wants i.e: Is the header 320px heigh? and does it expand when the font size is incremented?. I have to do an in depth test plan for an assignment, which i would also use for future jobs. Has anyone got any good resources on test plans? I'd like to see a few government ones if possible and some 'standard' or 'defacto' plans if possible. Im not sure if this topic borderlines on being removed, but i feel its standards related and most the users here work or have worked for companies that use them or they use themselves so i felt i'd get a better response. Cheers guys. I await your replies and thanks for your time. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Test Plans
Guys, all i can say is WOW! and thanks alot. I didn't expect many replies and surprisingly everyone kept on topic (which is good). I thank everyone for their replies and thanks a million steve, really appreciate that mate. Ill spend all night tonight on research and as well as meeting the assignment guidelines this will give me an insight into something ive never really looked into much before. Cheers. On Jan 15, 2008 6:58 PM, Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've just sent James a heap of sample test plans and stuff, but unfortunately very little of it is online because it's mostly stuff I've collected over the years in case it was ever useful (it wasn't). If you want to learn about how to do bad testing, just Google IEE 829 or ISEB. If you want to learn about good testing, read the following: www.context-driven-testing.com Everything written by Cem Kaner - www.kaner.com Everything written by James Bach - www.satisfice.com Bret Pettichord's four schools of testing - http://www.io.com/~wazmo/papers/four_schools.pdfhttp://www.io.com/%7Ewazmo/papers/four_schools.pdf If anyone wants to know more it's probably best to email me off-list. Steve www.labscape.co.uk -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Horowitz Sent: 15 January 2008 17:54 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Test Plans I'd love to see the stuff online. I think this is a very important part of web standards. QA should not be an afterthought but an integral part of the process. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Steve Green wrote: When you talk about 'standard' or 'government' test plans, what you mean is documentation as per IEE 829. Unfortunately this is an appallingly bad standard that guarantees inefficient and ineffective testing. However, this is what most test consultants peddle because it's easy to teach and some people are impressed by huge piles of test scripts (you might have guessed I'm not). It also maximises consultants' incomes because everything takes much longer than it needs to. I have run an outsource testing company for 6 years and we never use this type of documentation. I have many other resources that may be useful so I'll contact you off-list. Steve Green www.labscape.co.uk http://www.labscape.co.uk -- -- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *James Jeffery *Sent:* 15 January 2008 12:09 *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* [WSG] Test Plans Hi All. Im not familiar with test plans for Websites, i have my own way of running tests that usually run of what the client wants i.e: Is the header 320px heigh? and does it expand when the font size is incremented?. I have to do an in depth test plan for an assignment, which i would also use for future jobs. Has anyone got any good resources on test plans? I'd like to see a few government ones if possible and some 'standard' or 'defacto' plans if possible. Im not sure if this topic borderlines on being removed, but i feel its standards related and most the users here work or have worked for companies that use them or they use themselves so i felt i'd get a better response. Cheers guys. I await your replies and thanks for your time. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: inline styles theoretical question
HTML is the structure and content, CSS is the presentation, Javascript is the behaviour. Its perfectly valid to include in-line styles if you like making life hard for yourself and enjoy updating messy mark-up thats difficult to read. There may be extreme cases when you need to use inline styles, but other than that why would you want to? James On Jan 1, 2008 10:47 PM, kevin mcmonagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sorry my mistake - i forgot inline styles are valid but not best practices. you guys are right in all you say but i dont know if you understand exactly what im saying. A textpattern form with inline styles, only gets loaded once and when a change is made to it every page on the site is globally updated. The reason why I like using inline styles in it these global forms for minor tweaks is that no css file has to be changed saved and uploaded. Anyway i guess its a grey area, im going to keep doing it for now. -best kevin heres and example of a form: body div id=header h1 class=logotxp:link_to_homeimg src=/images/headlogo.png alt=John F. Loughrey and Associates style=border:0px //txp:link_to_home/h1 div style=float:left; display:block; width:250px; border:0px solid black; loads more stuff. /div!-- [/header]-- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: inline styles theoretical question
A CMS system bases itself on templates. A template file will get re-used
over and over as many times as it needs so if you add the following to the
index.php page (which is the base for every page within the CMS):
div style=border:red 1px solid?php get_section('link_list') ?/div
That will give the div a border, because its a template file any page that
uses it will also have the same because each page is a clone/copy of the
template.
Thats why it works the way it does.
On Jan 1, 2008 11:27 PM, John Faulds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A textpattern form with inline styles, only gets loaded once and when
a change is made to it every page on the site is globally updated.
You may only have one file to edit, but what gets sent to the browser is
still a different page for each entry with the inline styles needing to be
downloaded for each individual page. What you're describing isn't unique
to Textpattern, that's how all CMSs work - they use template files but the
HTML doesn't get 'loaded once' and it doesn't get cached; only CSS in an
external stylesheet gets cached.
--
Tyssen Design
www.tyssendesign.com.au
Ph: (07) 3300 3303
Mb: 0405 678 590
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Re: [WSG] AccessResearch // Page Check
On Nov 18, 2007 1:19 AM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James Jeffery wrote: Not every anchor needs extra advisory information, so I don't see an issue here. The title attribute is optional, but a title can help to clearly and accurately describe a link and for a website thats based around accessibility he should be using the title attribute where needed. But his links don't need it in this case. So your saying that before a user reads the content of the home page they are expected to know whats on the My Project page? Keep in mind users who use assistive devices to browse the web might find it very difficult to navigate to other pages. You could sum up the page contents in the title so it saves the user clicking the link. Adding clarity when possibly needed is a good thing. /overAndOut *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] AccessResearch // Page Check
[quote cite=http://juicystudio.com/article/using-title-attribute.php;] Values of the title attribute may be rendered by user agents in a variety of ways. For instance, visual browsers frequently display the title as a tool tip (a short message that appears when the pointing device pauses over an object). Audio user agents may speak the title information in a similar context. For example, setting the attribute on a link allows user agents (visual and non-visual) to tell users about the nature of the linked resource. [quote cite=http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-WCAG20-TECHS/H33.html;] Assistive technologies provide different levels of support for speaking the title attribute for an anchor element. JAWS 7.0 will speak either the link text or the title attribute for a link depending upon a JAWS setting. This setting can be changed temporarily or permanently within JAWS. However, it is awkward to read both the link text and the title attribute for a link. WindowEyes 5.5 has a hot key, ins-E, that will speak additional information, including the title attribute, for the item with focus. Home Page Reader 3.04 will speak the the URL of the current page and title attribute of any element with focus when the control-shift-F1 keys are pressed simultaneously. Some do, some don't. I would rather provide to those that do and give the disabled a greater benifit for those that make use of the title attribute. It would be wrong *not* to use the title attribute when you could be helping others make more sense of your page. Its like saying dont think about users with older browsers, they are the minority. Every user counts. If a user wants to magnify the screen there are alternative methods for making link text bigger, there is no alternative method for a user to make sense of link text. James On Nov 18, 2007 5:44 PM, Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: People with assistive technologies rarely benefit from 'title' attributes. They are not displayed by text browsers, they are not accessible using keyboard navigation (or devices that emulate keyboards) and they are not read by screen readers with default settings. They are only accessible to someone who uses a mouse and can hover it over the link, in which case it is not particularly difficult to go the extra step and click it. On top of that, excessive use of tooltips of any kind causes an obstacle for screen magnifier users, as they obscure a large proportion of the page even at relatively low magnification levels. So I have users very much in mind when I recommend that 'title' attributes should be used as little as possible. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Jeffery Sent: 18 November 2007 10:32 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] AccessResearch // Page Check On Nov 18, 2007 1:19 AM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James Jeffery wrote: Not every anchor needs extra advisory information, so I don't see an issue here. The title attribute is optional, but a title can help to clearly and accurately describe a link and for a website thats based around accessibility he should be using the title attribute where needed. But his links don't need it in this case. So your saying that before a user reads the content of the home page they are expected to know whats on the My Project page? Keep in mind users who use assistive devices to browse the web might find it very difficult to navigate to other pages. You could sum up the page contents in the title so it saves the user clicking the link. Adding clarity when possibly needed is a good thing. /overAndOut *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] AccessResearch // Page Check
I see where you are coming from, in a way. It seems that there is a problem, not with developers, but with accessibility overall if there is no way to provide additional information for link text. Anchor text such as The Future or Our Projects may be intended, but to the average user they can scan the page quickly and get an idea about what The Future is relating to. For users who find it difficult to read or view pages for whatever reason trying to figure out where that link takes you is going to be hard. That visitor may be a customer or it may be someone trying to find information. It would be better to have something like: a href=future.html title=The future of APR Electrical Components CorperationThe Future/a Maybe in the new versions of HTML of WCAG they should think about this, providing addition information. Primarily aimed at people with disabilities but its there for the average Joe aswell. Great discussion though, some valid points on both ends i feel. James On Nov 18, 2007 7:54 PM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James Jeffery wrote: Some do, some don't. I would rather provide to those that do and give the disabled a greater benifit for those that make use of the title attribute. Link text should make sense to *everybody*. If they don't, don't just fix it for the poor disabled users, fix it for everybody. Your intentions are well meant, but misplaced IMHO. And, as I was saying, it's wrong to say you *should* provide title as if the original poster made an omission. This is all opinion, not dogma. P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ Take it to the streets ... join the WaSP Street Team http://streetteam.webstandards.org/ __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Site check
Usability - Poor One off the reasons is viewing your web gallery annoyed me. I had to click through 3 pages to view the gallery and each time the flash too a while to load. - There is to much flash on the site that does not need to be there. - Colors are poor I could point out alo of things but everyone else has said what i was going to say. The site really needs to reflect on what it is you do, and if i was a potential client i would not be influenced to purchase your services based on your website. James On Nov 17, 2007 7:35 AM, John Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I fear for their welfare. Best, ~dL -- http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ Me too. Personally I like seeing h1 tags have only text content in them, and to at least have text content in them. Hey, are we in a timewarp? I have an issue that a lot of the content is inaccurate (eg. Ajax isn't a programming language) and lots of the rest is hard to use, or feels unfinished, from the Web button that when clicked, does nothing but float and return, via the 'web gallery wheel of doom' to the Work links' flash of unstyled content (FOUC) which is very avoidable. Kenny, you've got some fairly big issues with the site. I suggest reading a good book, maybe something like 'Designing with Web Standards', or alternatively 'Foucault's Pendulum'. If you want I can guide you through fixing some of the more obvious ones off-list, stuff like the empty (and useless) span/spans in the nav. Although XHTML 1.1 valid, a cursory glance at webxact would show your site fails some of the basic accessibility standards and quality checks. John *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
