RE: [WSG] Today's lesson: Respect - be courteous up or leave

2006-02-10 Thread John Foliot - WATS.ca
Lachlan Hunt wrote:
 Unfortunately, top posting (or failing to quote at all) is often the
 result users of broken e-mail clients (usually Outlook or some web
 based mail).  I find the best approach is to just set a good example,
 and hope that others eventually get the idea and/or switch mail
 clients. 

For those users married to their MS Office suite (and thus Outlook), you
may be interested in this:
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/outlook-quotefix/

Problem solved.

JF
--
John Foliot  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Accessibility Specialist
WATS.ca - Web Accessibility Testing and Services
http://www.wats.ca   
Phone: 1-613-482-7053 



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[WSG] ACCESS + KEY still = ACCESSKEY

2005-11-18 Thread John Foliot - WATS.ca
With apologies for cross posting.

Dear Friends,

For the many that know me, you will know that a post to any of the lists
I subscribe to on the topic of ACCESSKEY will automatically receive a
response from me.  I think by now my position is abundantly clear on
this topic.

When I first heard that XHTML 2 was deprecating ACCESSKEY in favor of
the ACCESS element and the ROLE attribute, my initial reaction was,
Finally, they will get this right and a  predictable, useful, stable
means will finally emerge to provide keyboard navigation to those that
can truly benefit from it.  For while I have continually decried the
mess and potential for harm that ACCESSKEY presented, I have always
supported and advocated for a better way, and we publicly applauded the
W3C for getting it too (Aug. 14, 2004 -
http://www.wats.ca/articles/thefutureofaccesskeys/66).

Along the way however, the ACCESS element has been shackled with the
KEY attribute, allowing the possibility for the content author to
dictate a specific key binding to one or more of the access points, in
effect, I believe, replicating and perpetuating many of the most serious
issues with ACCESSKEY: keystroke conflicts, little or no conflict
resolution, internationalization issues, lack of an existing or
persistent standard, etc.

And so I have asked the Editors of the XHTML 2 Draft Recommendation to
remove the KEY attribute from the specification.  The full text of my
request is published on the WATS.ca website:
http://www.wats.ca/articles/xhtmlroleaccessmodulestillflawed/80

I ask that you take the five minutes required to review my request, and
if you believe, as I do, that the KEY attribute has no place in XHTML 2,
then I urge you to say so to the Draft Editors at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Remember, The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) is an international
consortium where Member organizations, a full-time staff, AND THE PUBLIC
work together to develop Web standards. (http://www.w3.org/Consortium/)

Thank you.

JF
--
John Foliot  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Accessibility Specialist / Co-founder of WATS.ca
Web Accessibility Testing and Services
http://www.wats.ca   
Phone: 1-613-482-7053  


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RE: [WSG] computer arts mag article/review

2005-09-25 Thread John Foliot - WATS.ca
Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] wrote:
 From my personal perspective, Dreamweaver
 has a fantastic coding view similar to Homesite, with the additional
 features of FTP, CSS and Site Management. 

Uhm... It *is* HomeSite, which Macromedia bought to add to their
Dreamweaver Suite (they also bought ColdFusion, which shipped with
HomeSite as the editing environment, eons ago).  You can still purchase
Homesite as a stand-alone app, and this old dog still swears by it; I
use it daily.  

JF


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RE: [WSG] 'em' versus '%'

2005-09-25 Thread John Foliot - WATS.ca
Felix Miata wrote:
 
 No, it's not 16px. It's whatever size the user's browser default is
 set to. In most modern browsers, it just happens to start at 16px in
 most cases, but that is partly by accident, and is subject to user
 adjustment in multiple ways.   

The W3C has specified 16px/96ppi as a standard default text size, and
most modern browsers on the Macintosh and Windows platforms have honored
that specification since 2000*. (Alas, that rules out Netscape 4.x -
grin) None-the-less, today's Standards compliant browser generally
renders a default EM as 16 pixels.

(See the W3C CSS1 Specifications at
www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-CSS1-19990111#length-units plus the Errata Notice
correcting the original CSS1 spec.
www.w3.org/Style/css1-updates/REC-CSS1-19990111-errata.html)

JF
--
John Foliot  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Accessibility Specialist / Co-founder of WATS.ca
Web Accessibility Testing and Services
http://www.wats.ca   
Phone: 1-613-482-7053  


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Censorship (was RE: [WSG] IE Showing Transparent - APOLOGY)

2005-09-17 Thread John Foliot - WATS.ca
Ingo Chao wrote:
 Rick Faaberg wrote:
 Where do we draw the line on these sites?
 
 The reason why this did not happen before on the WSG mail list is
 because no poster before did have problems in drawing a line for
 himself. 
 
 We should not change this unwritten agreement.

Please do not impose your personal morality on this list.  

I do not believe that we should be censoring materials based solely on
content.  I *DO* agree that when providing links to examples where the
content *may* be of a potentially offensive or questionable content,
that it be indicated clearly up front, which did not happen this time.
However, the development question it's self was both legitimate and fair
game for a list on web standards and web development.  What next?   No
links to religious sites?  To pro-choice/anti-abortion sites?  To sites
dedicated to gay rights and same sex marriage?  Who decides where the
line is drawn? 

No, I believe posters to this list have a personal and PROFESSIONAL
obligation to flag sites containing potentially 'incendiary' content,
and then readers can apply their own moral judgment as required (and
perhaps this should be added to the List's Guidelines / Rules of
Participation: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm, with
failure to do so an actionable offense).  

Anything else is offensive _to me_!

JF
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Perth, Ontario


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Staying on topic (was RE: [WSG] Accessibility, the possibilities)

2005-08-23 Thread John Foliot - WATS.ca
Stuart Sherwood wrote:
 
 Hi All,
 If you pass all these test, does this exhaust all accessibility
 issues or are there more? 
 

Stuart,

There are also the soft tests - often these deal with areas of
cognitive issues, from dyslexia to English as a second or third
language, etc.  Consider the requirement for appropriate and descriptive
ALT text... What is appropriate, and further, who decides?  Then there
is the whole issue of readability - test such as the Flesch-Kincaid
Grade Level Score can give you an idea if your content is written in
language appropriate for the site's intended audience, but it's hardly
an exact science. (http://wats.ca/resources/determiningreadability/1).  

There are also issues surrounding appropriate use of tables, list types,
etc. which require judgment calls.  Here, once the appropriate container
has been chosen (UL, OL, table?), you must then check to ensure that
they have been constructed appropriately - for example does your table
have (or even require) a summary?  Scope / headers  ID, etc.?

As for testing tools, in addition to the ones already mentioned, we have
collected a number of other gadgets which can be of assistance:
http://wats.ca/resources/testingtools/44


Geoff Deering wrote:
 
 http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/full-checklist.html
 http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/checkpoint-list.html
 
 I think there are P3 checkpoints that are not covered here that you
 would need to check manually.

There are in fact checkpoints under all three Priorities which require
brain intervention - they simply cannot be tested mechanically.  Try
running a page through something like Cynthia says
(http://www.cynthiasays.com) will quickly show you what needs to be
manually checked.  Cynthia says also provides a fairly extensive chart
of what and how their tests are run
(http://www.cynthiasays.com/Standards/CynthiaVersusBobby.htm)

 
 Just as a side issue, there is a lot of debate in the accessibility
 community about the merit of using accesskeys, tabindex, etc.

Did somebody say accesskeys?  Whoa-boy...

Using Accesskeys - Is it worth it?: 
http://www.wats.ca/articles/accesskeys/19

More reasons why we don't use accesskeys: 
http://www.wats.ca/articles/accesskeyconflicts/37

Accesskeys and Reserved Keystroke Combinations: 
http://www.wats.ca/resources/accesskeysandkeystrokes/38  

Link Relationships as an Alternative to Accesskeys: 
http://www.wats.ca/articles/accesskeyalternatives/52

The Future of Accesskeys: 
http://www.wats.ca/articles/thefutureofaccesskeys/66 



 
 IMHO, many accessibility practitioners aim for WAI-AA, whilst
 incorporating the most practical of the WAI-AAA checkpoints to aid
 accessibility.

As a general assumption, this is a relatively fair statement.  Please
remember that the WCAG is now 6 years old (May 1999), and it's showing
it's age.  Regrettably, some developers must adhere slavishly to the
checkpoints - often creating more problems than they are solving, but
that is simply due to the fact that the Guidelines were never written to
be Standards - but are now serving that role more often than not.  If
you *do* have the luxury of being flexible, shooting for a WCAG AA+
standing is probably your safest position, but determining that
ranking cannot be measured by simple tools alone - a clear and
experienced understanding of the issues will always be required.  The
clear understanding can come from hanging out in forums such as this
one, the WAI-IG (http://www.w3.org/WAI/IG/), WebAIM
(www.webaim.org/gettinghelp/) and GAWDS (the Guild of Accessible Web
Developers - http://www.gawds.org/discuss/).  Many of the regulars on
these lists are only too happy to lend a hand and provide answers, etc.
when asked.

Experience on the other hand takes time...  But it's really worth the
wait.

HTH

JF
--
John Foliot  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Accessibility Specialist / Co-founder of WATS.ca
Web Accessibility Testing and Services
http://www.wats.ca   
Phone: 1-613-482-7053 



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RE: [WSG] IE Madness

2005-08-18 Thread John Foliot - WATS.ca
Patrick Haney wrote:
 Internet Explorer cannot open the internet site http://
 www.fifeweb.org/wp/events/evnt_ga_res_2005_01.html. Operation
 aborted. 
 
 It seems as if IE is striping off the #top fragment.
 
 Anyone know how to fix this?
 
 Bob,
 

Late to the party, but I cannot replicate this problem (IE 6.0.2 / W2K).
FWIW...

JF
--
John Foliot  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Accessibility Specialist / Co-founder of WATS.ca
Web Accessibility Testing and Services
http://www.wats.ca   
Phone: 1-613-482-7053 


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Stupid Questions? (was RE: [WSG] display: inline-block: valid or not? W3C validator says not.)

2005-08-15 Thread John Foliot - WATS.ca
SunUp wrote:
 I do realise this is probably a very stupid question, and it's more
 than a little scary asking a stupid question on this list, but I'll
 wear the result if it means I can understand what I've done wrong.
 
 Thanks,
 sunny.

Goodness Sunny,

There really is no such thing as a stupid question - please, I really
hope that this list has not reached the point that newer subscribers
feel intimidated to ask questions.  Your question was both valid and
well posed.

Hey everybody!  There is no such thing as a stupid question (although
occasionally we will see stupid responses...)

Cheers all!

JF
--
John Foliot  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Accessibility Specialist / Co-founder of WATS.ca
Web Accessibility Testing and Services
http://www.wats.ca   
Phone: 1-613-482-7053 


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[WSG] RE: Stupid Questions? (was RE: [WSG] display: inline-block: valid or not? W3C validator says not.)

2005-08-15 Thread John Foliot - WATS.ca
Patrick Lauke wrote:
 John Foliot - WATS.ca
 
 There is no such thing as a stupid question (although
 occasionally we will see stupid responses...)
 
 You tell 'em John :)
 
 P

As a point of clarification, when I say stupid responses, I meant in the
form of condescending or mean responses, rather than factually
inaccurate responses (which sometimes *do* crop up, but not that
frequently).  My concern was that a new member felt intimidated to ask
a question here, which made me sad...

JF
--
John Foliot  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Accessibility Specialist / Co-founder of WATS.ca
Web Accessibility Testing and Services
http://www.wats.ca   
Phone: 1-613-482-7053 


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RE: [WSG] Spacing Issue

2005-08-14 Thread John Foliot - WATS.ca
Jeff D. Reid wrote:
 I joined this list well over two years ago.  I have designed sites on
 my own utilizing tips and suggestions I have gathered from most
 people on the list and other lists.  This is the FIRST time I have
 had my hands tied as to follow a Graphic Designer/Marketing expert
 who has new visions for OLP Guitars, which is owned by HHI, for whom
 I work in the capacity of Webmaster.

Which means now you must pick your battles.  Been there, done that
grin.  Welcome to the club.

 
 I have attended college and have received a degree in Web Site Design
 and Management.  I have worked for various companies in both
 full-time and freelance capacities and never in my short 8 year
 career in web design have I ever had my knowledge or lack of
 knowledge questioned and thus insulted as you have managed to do in
 this statement to me: 
 
 I won't go into all the remaining issues - you're probably aware of
 them anyway and have done the best you can with what you know.
 
 As for the text on the left.  I am working within a pre-determined
 sized slice of the graphic designer's design.  I have changed font
 faces, styles and sizes 100 times.  Instead of chastising me (for
 doing something you have no idea of how I ended up concluding to) how
 about doing what this list is meant to do...HELP, ASSIST, POINT ME IN
 THE RIGHT DIRECTION!  

But the answer is very simple.  The design must work with the browsers,
not against.  The designer must understand that they too need to have
some give and take.  If this has happened, we aren't aware of it.

Lets start with Standards then: 
font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Sans Serif;
font-size: 9px; 

Item one: fixed font size - ya, ya, ya not as big an issue now as it
used to be, but still considered a no-no. Perhaps try creating you own
style sheets rather than allowing Mr. www.csscreator.com crank out this
stuff.  Are you aware of Nick Bradbury's excellent Top Style and Top
Style Lite (http://www.bradsoft.com/topstyle/tslite/fullver.asp).  Why
PX?

Item two: Verdana?  I'm far from a typography expert, but I do know that
Verdana has a completely different metric than most of the other
sans-serif fonts out there.  It's larger, wider, and spaced differently.
This may be one of your problems.  Yes I hate Arial too (I often use
Tahoma), but the number of sans-serif fonts available to you is very
limited.  But I would strongly avoid Verdana...


 If you have an idea of how to make the font
 size larger as to be readable yet not break the table, please then by
 all means tell me.  If it is to get rid of the table, then that is
 NOT a viable answer or solution for now, but in time that will come.

Using your current design technique, you can't.  You need to walk away
from the table layout - it's that simple.  It may not be the answer you
seek, but it *is* the answer.

 
 I work for a company which up until 3 years ago, could have cared
 less about a web presence.  I am basically in a weird position as the
 company's divisions start to grow and add on additional employees
 (design and marketing).  Yes, I am in control of the sites that
 appear on our web servers.  But yes, I am also needing to follow
 closely the assets that are provided to me regarding the building of
 the divisions web site as well.  I have written a Web Standards paper
 which will be presented to each Division Manager at the next Managers
 Meeting.  If you would like a copy of it so you can really determine
 my level of knowledge or understanding of standards and accessibility
 issues, I will send you one. 

Well Jeff, that's might kind.  But my grandmother used to say that the
proof was in the pudding.  Perhaps you might start by educating your
designer about the current trends in web development.  Make him/her
understand that the web is not a print medium, that you can do some
really cool stuff on the web that you can't in print, and vice-versa.
Perhaps spend some time together looking at sites like CSS Zen Garden
for inspiration; proving that standards based flexible web sites need
not be boring or ugly.  But to show up with a site that would be
better off as a PDF isn't going to win over any fans or strong support,
at least probably not here...

 
 Oh well..end of rant.  I will go back to lurk status and will learn
 the old fashioned way...trial and error until I can begin thinking of
 myself as some form of an elitist as well..

It may seem elitist to you, but look at it from a different
perspective... You come to a list of experts who have been pushing,
pleading, educating, scolding, extolling the virtues of table-less
layouts, and wining about the evils of old-school multi-nested table
layouts for about 3 years+ now, and you offer what?  A table based
design with fixed fonts: 

TR
TDIMG SRC=images/space.gif WIDTH=19 BORDER=0 HEIGHT=1
ALT=spacer/TD
TDIMG SRC=images/space.gif WIDTH=108 BORDER=0
HEIGHT=1 ALT=spacer/TD
TDIMG SRC=images/space.gif WIDTH=83 

Accesskeys (Was RE: [WSG] Re: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org)

2005-08-14 Thread John Foliot - WATS.ca
Josh Rose wrote:
 
 What I'm trying to do is have the accesskey underlined, it works fine
 in Firefox and Opera (wayhey), but in IE 6 the a:first-letter works
 fine, but a:hover doesn't at all (it does without a:first-letter
 though) and in Netscape 7 the a:first-letter doesn't work at all
 (just netscapes css support?) but a:hover does.  Phew.
 
 The CSS is probably a bit bulky, but go easy on me, I'm newish to
 this. 
 
 Any ideas?  If at all possible I'd like to avoid CSS hacks.
 
 Thanks,
 Josh.

En Francais eh?  Bienvenue!

Josh,

Accesskeys?  May I suggest you review the following?

Using Accesskeys - Is it worth it?: 
http://www.wats.ca/articles/accesskeys/19

More reasons why we don't use accesskeys: 
http://www.wats.ca/articles/accesskeyconflicts/37

Accesskeys and Reserved Keystroke Combinations: 
http://www.wats.ca/resources/accesskeysandkeystrokes/38  

Link Relationships as an Alternative to Accesskeys: 
http://www.wats.ca/articles/accesskeyalternatives/52

The Future of Accesskeys: 
http://www.wats.ca/articles/thefutureofaccesskeys/66 

Perhaps after reviewing these, you may consider eliminating them
entirely, making your quest a moot point.

Cheers!

JF
--
John Foliot  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Accessibility Specialist / Co-founder of WATS.ca
Web Accessibility Testing and Services
http://www.wats.ca   
Phone: 1-613-482-7053 


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RE: [WSG] Table header

2005-08-14 Thread John Foliot - WATS.ca
Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
 Lea de Groot wrote:
 
 The thead tag is the key -
 
 If you're using thead, you may as well go all the way and add a tbody
 as well...
 
table
thead
tr
   thID/ththVar 1/ththVar 2/th
/tr
/thead
tbody
   tr
   tdID VALUE/td
   tdVar 1 value/td
   tdVar 2 value/td
   /tr
/tbody
/table

Heck, if you're going to go all the way, why not also include the
tfoot (which comes after the thead, but before the tbody and
essentially mimics the thead - this is useful for larger tables).
Then, if you want to get real fancy, and you have a larger table, you
can set the height of the tbody and make it scroll.  While not
supported in all browsers, those that don't will simply default to a
full table:

tbody style=height: 350px; overflow: scroll;

Sample at: http://wats.ca/resources/accesskeysandkeystrokes/38

Cheers!

JF
--
John Foliot  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Accessibility Specialist / Co-founder of WATS.ca
Web Accessibility Testing and Services
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Phone: 1-613-482-7053 


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RE: [WSG] Newbie Questions: East-Asian Character Sets and Marking-up Poetry

2005-08-09 Thread John Foliot - WATS.ca
Kwok Ting Lee wrote:
 This is, I guess, one of the first times I've written anything here,
 but I've run into a bit of a dilemma and was hoping for some advice:
 
 1.  I have a number of analyses of poems I am planning on posting to
 my weblog over the next few months, however, I'm a bit stumped as to
 what mark-up would be most semantically correct  (The poems are quoted
 from another source, so for the time being I was thinking of using a
 blockquote):
 
 A.blockquote
   h3Title of Poem/h3
   p class=stanza
   Blah...blah..blah...br/
   More blah.br/
   
   /p
   /blockquote
 
 Or:
 
 B.dl class=poem
   dtTitle of Poem/dt
   ddBlah...blah..blach.../dd
   ddMore blah/dd
   ...
   /dl
 

Oh, no, definitely not the second option!  Absolutely wrong use of the
definition list.

Perhaps:

h3Title of Poem/h3
  blockquote
p class=stanza
Blah...blah..blah...br/
More blah.br/

/p
  /blockquote
  panalyse of poem.../p

In other words, you separate your content from the original authors.
You may also want to include the cite attribute, as you indicate that
the source of the texts are from elsewhere:

blockquote cite=http://www.other_source.com;

Also, not sure about Chinese poetry, but I know western poetry often
requires specific line breaks, making it a candidate for pre... (just
a random thought...)

h3Title of Poem/h3
  blockquote
pre
Blah...blah..blah...
More blah.

/pre
  /blockquote
  panalyse of poem.../p

Good Luck, HTH

JF
--
John Foliot  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Accessibility Specialist / Co-founder of WATS.ca
Web Accessibility Testing and Services
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Phone: 1-613-482-7053 


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Politically Correct Terminology (was RE: [WSG] New front page for http://abc.net.au/)

2005-08-04 Thread John Foliot - WATS.ca
Nicola Rae wrote:
 Hi,
 
 Just to chip in, I am writing a couple of articles for GAWDS (guild of
 Accessible Web Designers) and have it on authority from them that the
 correct terms to use are:
 
 In the UK - instead of 'users with disabilities' - it should be
 'disabled users'.
 
 In the UK - instead of 'physical disabilities'  - it should be
 'physical impairment'.
 
 As I also thought it was users with disabilities.
 
 Nikki
 


For What it's Worth Dept

About 3 years ago, I received permission to mirror the following Words
With Dignity (http://wats.ca/resources/wordswithdignity/35), created by
the Active Living Alliance, a NGO here in Canada
(http://www.ala.ca/content/home.asp).  

So, not to be contrary to Nikki, it seems that it may also be a cultural
thing, as the ALA suggest Person(s) with a disability.  Perhaps their
final advice is most relevant: Remember, appropriate terminology
changes with the times. If in doubt, ask. Most people with a disability
will be more than willing to help you.

HTH

JF
--
John Foliot  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Accessibility Specialist / Co-founder of WATS.ca
Web Accessibility Testing and Services
http://www.wats.ca   
Phone: 1-613-482-7053 



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RE: 'users with disabilities' WAS: [WSG] New front page for http: //ab c.net.au/

2005-08-04 Thread John Foliot - WATS.ca
Conyers, Dwayne wrote:
 Leslie Riggs wrote:
 
 Following web standards is all well and good,
 but how are you going to stream the audio when
 you can't hear it, if you can't do it this?
 How do you know your method will WORK?
 
 Some people can be thick -- even when well-intentioned.
 
 But on the subject of streaming -- I find that very few streaming
 broadcasts use captioning.  Most television broadcasts have closed
 captioning as mandatory and the ability to transmit text with radio
 broadcasts is being used (although, more as an added feature).  I
 imagine the wild-west unregulated state of the web makes such
 enforcement difficult at best.

WCAG Priority 1: 
1.1 Provide a text equivalent for every non-text element (e.g., via
alt, longdesc, or in element content). This includes: images,
graphical representations of text (including symbols), image map
regions, animations (e.g., animated GIFs), applets and programmatic
objects, ascii art, frames, scripts, images used as list bullets,
spacers, graphical buttons, sounds (played with or without user
interaction), stand-alone audio files, audio tracks of video, and video.

1.3 Until user agents can automatically read aloud the text equivalent
of a visual track, provide an auditory description of the important
information of the visual track of a multimedia presentation.


1.4 For any time-based multimedia presentation (e.g., a movie or
animation), synchronize equivalent alternatives (e.g., captions or
auditory descriptions of the visual track) with the presentation.

FWIW, Captioning is relatively easy these days, even *if* different
vendors use different implementations of SMIL.  Of the 3 major
methods/formats I've played with (QT, Real and Flash), Flash was the
easiest, and given the widespread deployment of the plug-in probably the
most universal of the three. 

If/when it comes to real-time however, all bets are off smile, as it
still is somewhat labor intensive at the development end.

 
 I am sure there would be howls of protest if some licensing, such as
 an FCC license for broadcasting, would be mandatory for the web -- and
 perhaps there should be some citizens band version of the web (which
 the spammers will overrun) and a professional version.  Interesting
 thought...
 

Please, no...

JF
--
John Foliot  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Accessibility Specialist / Co-founder of WATS.ca
Web Accessibility Testing and Services
http://www.wats.ca   
Phone: 1-613-482-7053 



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