Re: [WSG] dl question

2008-08-03 Thread Kevin Futter
On 4/08/08 1:20 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi all,
 
 I was under the impression a dl could only contain one dt and one
 or many dd's.
 
 But I have just come across a piece of code that uses multiple dt's
 in the one dl
 
 Upon further investigation, it seems this is legitimate
 practicebut does it make sense?!?!
 
 Semantically, isn't the whole point of a dl to use definition data
 tags (dd's) to describe a definition title (dt)!? Does it make
 sense to have multiple definition titles in the same dl?! Or does it
 make more sense to have a seperate dl for each dt??

The point you probably haven't considered is that it's a definition *list* -
a list of things and their definitions. So, one dl can have as many dts
(and their attendant dds) as you like.

-- 
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Webmaster, St. Bernard's College
http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/


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Re: [ADMIN] THREAD CLOSED [WSG] XSLT: looping through ancestors looking for a specific node

2008-07-27 Thread Kevin Futter
On 28/07/08 2:07 PM, Matt Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Sorry, Grant, this is off topic for this list.

Is it? I thought XSLT was a web standard - it certainly has a home on the
W3C site ( http://www.w3.org/TR/xslt). Are we just a CSS group now?

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Re: [WSG] Who's A Front End Developer?

2007-07-04 Thread Kevin Futter
On 5/7/07 9:37 AM, Lucien Stals [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I think I missed something in the original question. The front end
 part. Somebody else categorised some of the technologies as back end
 and that got me wondering.
 
 When I said I was a web developer, I meant back end development. So
 what is front end development? DHTML? Anything not related to visual
 design but *not* talking to a back end system? (as opposed to front end
 design)
 
 Developing for the web is such a mixed bag, I just can't see an easy
 way to categorise things into dev/design or front end / back end.
 
 I like Bruce's suggestion for a break down, but he too acknowledges the
 grey area around development. And I'd say that once you touch the db,
 you are definitely back end, not front end.
 
 In the end I guess I question the validity of defining developers in
 terms of front end and back end. Can we just stick to designers and
 developers?
 
 Lucien.

I work in a school as part of a team of 3 IT people, so I need to be able to
do it all - from configuring the server to developing the databases to
designing the interfaces to building the back-end to crafting the HTML/CSS
to coding the JavaScript where necessary. So, roles like that do indeed
exist, especially in small businesses or where this kind of work is not core
business. Am I an expert practitioner of all these disciplines and
technologies? Of course not, but I get the job done, and know how to find
out what I need to know. Your biggest asset in this game is your
problem-solving ability, regardless of how you define your role. For the
record, I usually describe myself as a 'web developer', but my school
defines my role as 'IT Support'. (I'm also responsible for my share of IT
support and staff training too, so it doesn't even end there!)

Kevin 

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Re: [WSG] JavaScript gurus - exercise in vanity

2007-06-19 Thread Kevin Futter
On 19/6/07 9:27 PM, Rob Kirton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Lars
 
 Your problem is going to be to get what are deemed good academic sources. As
 you will already know academic publications and conference papers will carry
 greater weight than books, especially those not peer reviewed and published as
 an academic work.
 
 It's who your tutor / prof is going to rate as a guru; sad as that may seem.
 The names mentioned are good in their field and have written books, however
 you may have been going more down the correct path with your original list.
 
 Find good conference papers if you can

No one¹s mentioned John Resig, developer of JQuery?

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Re: [WSG] Acronym tag usage

2007-05-10 Thread Kevin Futter
On 11/5/07 1:08 AM, russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Well, technically this is not an acroynm or even a tag.  :)
 
 An acronym is defined as a WORD formed from the initial letters of a
 multi-word name. The important point here is that an acronym must be a WORD
 - this means that the joined initial letters must be able to be pronounced.
 http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/abbreviations/
 
 Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) is actually an initialism - An
 abbreviation pronounced as the names of the individual letters formed only
 from the initial letter of constituent words.
 
 Initialisms are subsets of abbreviations. So theoretically this should be
 marked up using the abbr element:
 abbr title= Metropolitan Statistical AreaM.S.A./abbr
 
 The problem is that the abbr is poorly supported by IE5 and IE6. This
 means you may have to (1) revert to using the acronym element, or (2)
 place a span inside your abbr element and style this instead or (3) use
 JavaScript:
 http://annevankesteren.nl/2003/08/improved-styling-abbr-in-ie
 
 The full stops between the letters in the initialism are used by some
 authors in order to allow screen readers to spell out the letters properly
 rather than coming out as a single unintelligible word - msah.
 
 Oh, and I'd vote for just the first instance on each page - as others have
 suggested.
 
 Thanks
 Russ
 


Russ is indeed absolutely correct. These terms are confused all the time,
and while colloquial use might have become blurred in recent years, their
technical definitions have not.

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Re: [WSG] Acronym tag usage

2007-05-10 Thread Kevin Futter
On 11/5/07 10:23 AM, Dan Dorman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 5/10/07, Kevin Futter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Russ is indeed absolutely correct. These terms are confused all the time,
 and while colloquial use might have become blurred in recent years, their
 technical definitions have not.
 
 I'm genuinely interested in seeing some references on the proper
 technical definitions of the terms; apparently even linguists don't
 agree, and fifty/sixty years of usage (at least) seems a rather loose
 interpretation of recent years.
 
 I was unable to dig up any positive position one way or t'other, just
 varying opinion.
 
 I promise, I won't argue any more on the matter, since this is getting
 awfully pedantic, but I am genuinely curious:  if anyone has some
 concrete sources on the subject, please let me know; off list would be
 fine.
 
 Dan Dorman


Dan - I sent you an email offlist.

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Re: [WSG] What do we say if we don't say click?

2007-04-18 Thread Kevin Futter
On 19/4/07 8:29 AM, John Foliot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

[snip]
 
 One way around this would be to announce prior to the image array to Click
 on any image to view a larger version (or similar).

This is the solution that I've (eventually) arrived at for most image
galleries - just a simple line of text above the gallery itself explaining
what you need to do. The images themselves or their captions are then left
alone to function as intended.

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Re: [WSG] Global and page-specific style sheets

2007-03-13 Thread Kevin Futter
On 13/3/07 3:01 PM, Cole Kuryakin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hello All ­
  
 I¹ve got a site that has a fairly MASSIVE style sheet. It¹s quite long as the
 design spec dictates a number of different pages be layed-out differently.
  
 Accordingly, its becoming quite tedious to find certain style blocks that need
 to be altered/tweaked as development continues.
  
 So, I¹m beginning to think that the better way to accomplish this is to attach
 a ³global² sheet in the head that would take care of all ³generic² issues and
 page requirements.
  
 Then, in those pages that need ³special handling² I would attached separate
 sheets that would address page-specific requirements.
  
 BTW: This site is a dynamic one (php) so these special-case pages are
 ³included² depending on query-string variables/conditions.
  
 What do the good folks say here about this particular topic? Is this a normal
 (and preferred) workflow when one has to deal with long and unwieldy style
 sheets?
  
 Are there any ³best practice² guidelines for such an issue?
  
 Cole
  
I usually do that as a matter of course ­ one global style sheet that I
usually call Œdefault.css¹, which sets up all the default styles (no
kidding?), and then a page- or section-specific style sheet to deal with
the, well, specifics (man, I think I see a pattern here...). I find that it
makes managing larger sites much easier.

-- 
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Re: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com

2006-03-02 Thread Kevin Futter
On 3/3/06 10:24 AM, Rob Mientjes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 02/03/06, Kevin Futter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Well, it
 should be *who* will grin gleefully for a start.

My apologies for that
 typo, but it shouldn't detract from the matter at
 hand.

-Rob.

Partly my fault there Rob - I didn't realise until after I'd posted that
your comment wasn't part of the quoted material you were referring to. I
wouldn't have commented had I realised. I decided not to post a
correction/clarification as it was already off-topic enough (even more
off-topic now I guess).

Kevin Futter
Webmaster, St. Bernard's College
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Re: [WSG] Breadcrumb as Section Heading H1

2006-02-23 Thread Kevin Futter
On 23/2/06 10:19 PM, Ian Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Kevin Futter wrote:
 
 Anyway, for the benefit of others interested in this thread/topic, the
 upshot from the above link seems to be that the pipe character (|) is the
 best compromise currently available as a screen reader-friendly element
 separator.
 
 I profoundly disagree with that. The vertical bar is the worst thing you
 can use in a breadcrumb trail, regardless of how it reads in a screen
 reader. This is conventionally used on the web as a separator for
 sibling links, and it really doesn't work as a breadcrumb separator for
 sighted users.

For the record, I was merely summarising the article that Patrick's earlier
link pointed to, not endorsing its conclusions. I too tend to agree that the
pipe is a poor choice for sighted users as it already has semiotic
significance on the web.
 
 I don't think a list is appropriate markup for breadcrumbs and prefer
 the conventional You are in: home  products  foo

We certainly agree here!

 Screen reader users in our user testing on sites with this construct had
 no problems with it reading home  greater than products greater than
 foo, and reported that it was a very useful aid.

Now I find this very interesting, mainly because the article seemed not to
be based on any user testing, but rather a developer running various
alternatives through JAWS and making assumptions about the usability of the
results. (Please correct me if I'm wrong - I didn't bookmark the link so I
can't go back to confirm.) What you're saying is based on direct observation
of and feedback from the target audience, which is of course far more
valuable.

-- 
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Re: [WSG] Breadcrumb as Section Heading H1

2006-02-22 Thread Kevin Futter
On 22/2/06 10:38 AM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Kevin Futter wrote:

 My only concern about using a string
 of text is defining a semantically-appropriate item delimiter that works
 well for assistive technologies.
 
 This seems apropos:
 http://www.standards-schmandards.com/?2004/11/06/6-the-sound-of-the-accessibl
 e-title-tag-separator

Thanks for the link Patrick - quite interesting. I must admit that I'm
guilty of using raquo;, so I may need to rethink that. One thing I found
interesting in the comments is the idea of using a colon as a delimiter,
with one person commenting that it's semantically appropriate as it's used
this way in English grammar. This is not actually correct; colons are used
to *introduce* a list (there's that word again) of elements, but semicolons
(;) are used to separate the constituent elements, with the last element
technically requiring a full-stop (period). I must say though that I feel
drawing on the already-muddled semantics of the English language as a model
for web semantics is a tenuous affair.

Anyway, for the benefit of others interested in this thread/topic, the
upshot from the above link seems to be that the pipe character (|) is the
best compromise currently available as a screen reader-friendly element
separator.

-- 
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Webmaster, St. Bernard's College
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Re: [WSG] Breadcrumb as Section Heading H1

2006-02-21 Thread Kevin Futter
On 21/2/06 7:00 PM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Kevin Futter wrote:
 
 Yes, I've argued strongly in the past that a list is not completely
 semantically-appropriate for breadcrumbs markup. Unlike breadcrumbs, a flat
 list does not represent a hierarchy, unless you nest them
 ...
 Of course I have to qualify this by saying that I treat breadcrumbs not as a
 dynamic path mirroring your journey through my website, but a clear and
 fixed path from site root to the page you're currently on.
 
 But one could also look at a homeward path as an ordered set of steps
 from the homepage to the current page, where the hierarchy is implied by
 the order in which the list items appear.

While I can concede that an ordered list offers more chance of an implied
hierarchy than an unordered one, I'm not keen on the amount of code required
to produce the result, nor the concept of a series of nested lists, each
with one element.

Based on what you're saying Patrick, my preference for a simple string of
text (a paragraph, for example), set out as an ordered set of steps from
the homepage to the current page would have a hierarchy implied by the
order in which the list items appear. My only concern about using a string
of text is defining a semantically-appropriate item delimiter that works
well for assistive technologies. I can but defer to earlier threads
referring to Occam's Razor.

-- 
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Re: [WSG] Breadcrumb as Section Heading H1

2006-02-20 Thread Kevin Futter
On 21/2/06 12:31 PM, Terrence Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 James Hunter:
 Is it appropriate to use the breadcrumb as the H1 element?
 
 Breadcrumbs do not describe the *document* structure - they hint at the
 *site* structure (provided you only provide a hierarchal navigation
 system) or site history (depending on what type of breadcrumb you
 employ).
 
 I'm thinking out aloud here: not sure why, but using a list for
 breadcrumbs doesn't quite sit right with me, despite it being a type of
 navigation device. I think it is due to list structures replacing the
 dir and menu elements - and the notion that the site hierarchy
 represented as links is distinctly different from a navigation menu.
 Anyone else have thoughts on this?

Yes, I've argued strongly in the past that a list is not completely
semantically-appropriate for breadcrumbs markup. Unlike breadcrumbs, a flat
list does not represent a hierarchy, unless you nest them (and of course
then it's no longer a flat list). So, breadcrumbs would need to be a series
of nested lists, each with only one element, in order to satisfy me
semantically. And of course, that is just absurd. Breadcrumbs are more about
integrating a vertical site or navigation path, rather than a horizontal (in
the conceptual sense) collection of same-level data.

Of course I have to qualify this by saying that I treat breadcrumbs not as a
dynamic path mirroring your journey through my website, but a clear and
fixed path from site root to the page you're currently on. If you want to
traverse back and forth along your own personal path, you can use the ...
wait for it ... Back and Forwards buttons.
-- 
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Re: [WSG] TARGET in 4.01 Strict

2006-02-15 Thread Kevin Futter
On 15/2/06 6:57 PM, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Bert Doorn wrote:
 Serdar Kýlýç wrote:
 How does one open a new window with a 4.01 Strict DOCTYPE and have it
 be valid? For my weblog I ran the w3 validator and it complained that
 there is no attribute called target
 
 The users!  Please, won't somebody think of the *users*!
 
 Many users hate popup windows.  There are no valid use-cases or reasons
 for opening a popup window, don't do it.  If you think you have one, I'd
 like to hear it, but know this: I've heard many excuses over the years
 (some more often than others) but every single one of them has been
 flawed in some way.

Yes, in fact I do have one. For a couple of sites I do for musicians, I open
a Flash-based music player in a new window - a small pop-up. Why? Because if
you embed the music player in the page and begin to play a song, and then
navigate to a different page or website, you lose the entire show. My choice
was to put it in a frame - which I did do for a while - or open a new
window. I decided that the small pop-up was the lesser of two evils, as the
other choice required changing the structural approach of the entire
website. An additional benefit of the pop-up not afforded by frames is that
the music player is still available even when the user chooses to leave the
site.

-- 
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Re: [WSG] Justify this

2005-12-15 Thread Kevin Futter
On 15/12/05 4:27 PM, Paul Noone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi Kevin,
 
 That's just another limitation of the parameter. Justified text actually
 comes in several flavours - left, right and both.
 


Actually, that's quite wrong. There is no such thing as left- or
right-justified text, only left- or right-aligned text. Justified text is
exactly as I described in my last post: text that spans a full block element
(print or screen) and is aligned to both left and right margins. I am of
course talking about the technical publishing definition of the term, not
the CSS version.

-- 
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Re: [WSG] Browser Resolutions

2005-12-15 Thread Kevin Futter
On 16/12/05 7:07 AM, Brian Cummiskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Michael Wilson wrote:
   I was surprised to see (in the data
 Brian posted) so few users at a 1280 x 960 setting. We have a large
 percentage who use this (I suppose because it is a 3:4 resolution).
 
 Isn't 1280x960 mostly on laptops?  i don't even have that option on my
 machine (basic intel built in graphics card)

It's a standard 4:3 screen resolution, so any graphics card should support
it by default. Sounds like a deficiency in your Intel graphics. I use this
resolution myself, as I don't like the slight aspect ratio distortions I get
using 1280x1024. (Skulks away realising none of this is on-topic ...)

-- 
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Re: [WSG] Justify this

2005-12-14 Thread Kevin Futter
On 15/12/05 2:49 PM, Paul Noone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi Lachlan,
 
 Thanks for that but I was actually wanting to center align justified text
 for a particular purpose. Evidently my experiment is invalid.
 
 Thanks anyway.

Justified text runs full-width and aligns to both left and right margins,
and is hence incompatible with the concept of being centred. This is also
why it's less legible - the rivers of white space alluded to already are
caused by varying and inconsistent word spacing, which makes the eye jump
from word to word instead of tracking smoothly. I'd also have to dispute
that it looks better, but that's just subjective on my part.

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Re: [WSG] firefox 1.5 is official

2005-11-30 Thread Kevin Futter
On 30/11/05 9:39 PM, Rimantas Liubertas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
  The Mac version of HTMLTidy doesn't work under 1.5, which actually prevents
 me from upgrading on my work machine, as I use this all the time as a handy
 shortcut for picking up validation errors (and puts this thread vaguely
 on-topic too). The PC version works, so I'll be upgrading my PC for sure.
 
 
 Version which I got from
 http://users.skynet.be/mgueury/mozilla/download.html worked
 on 1.5RC just fine.
 
 Regards,
 Rimantas

Ah, thanks Rimantas - last time I checked (a couple of weeks ago), the 0.7.6
version for Mac wasn't there, only the older 0.6.2 version (which definitely
doesn't work with FF1.5).

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Re: [WSG] firefox 1.5 is official

2005-11-29 Thread Kevin Futter
Title: Re: [WSG] firefox 1.5 is official



On 30/11/05 12:07 PM, Jay Gilmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

The one extension set that no longer works and I haven't found a solution is the libraries for Spellbound. I am not sure where to find the libraries. They are available at for Thunderbird. I really do use it alot for blogging and forum posting.

-best.
Jay
Jay Gilmore
Developer/Consultant
Affordable Websites and Marketing Solutions for Real Small Business.
SmashingRed Web  Marketing http://www.smashingred.com 
P) 902.529.0651
E) [EMAIL PROTECTED]


The Mac version of HTMLTidy doesnt work under 1.5, which actually prevents me from upgrading on my work machine, as I use this all the time as a handy shortcut for picking up validation errors (and puts this thread vaguely on-topic too). The PC version works, so Ill be upgrading my PC for sure.

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Re: [WSG] Accessibility: Default placeholders

2005-11-14 Thread Kevin Futter
On 15/11/05 3:20 PM, Andy Kirkwood, Motive [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi Geoff,
 
 (To pick up on Patrick's point.) Have you come across a scenario on a
 website where  it seems appropriate to use an input element to
 indicate that an option exists but cannot be edited by the user?
 
 Perhaps it's preferable to show such content as text rather than as
 an input? (Seems like an instance of yes, we have no bananas: yes
 this is an input, but no you can't.)
 
 Best regards,

I actually used read only input fields recently for our online subject
selections. Compulsory subjects were pulled out of a database and displayed
as read only input fields, while other fields were normal select elements.

Why not just display the compulsory subjects as plain text? Because then
there is a visual and cognitive dissonance between the two information sets
- they can seem unrelated, especially when you consider that high school
students rarely read a web form's accompanying text, no matter how
important. I think in this case the fact that the information was displayed
with as part of the form avoided that problem, while using the readonly
attribute and styling the input text a medium grey took care of the rest.

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Re: [WSG] specifying width of pre

2005-10-24 Thread Kevin Futter
On 25/10/05 1:59 PM, Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Other than a scroll bar (overflow) there is no solution?
 
 The reason I need to use pre is that the content comes from a database that
 doesn't use HTML br's, but normal linebreaks. So to format the text
 correctly I need to put it in pre tags, but of course I want it to still fit
 into the rest of the content.

Can you not use PHP to replace the line breaks with br / tags? I use
something like this:

?php
$br = chr(10); //single line feed character (LF)
$description = str_replace(chr(10), br /\n);
// etc
?

You just need to verify which character your db is using for line breaks
(MySQL?).

Sorry to the list for straying off-topic, and apologies to Andreas (like the
new site mate!) if I'm barking up the wrong tree.

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Re: [WSG] javascripts and standards

2005-10-16 Thread Kevin Futter
On 17/10/05 8:01 AM, Andrew Krespanis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 10/17/05, Mordechai Peller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 One of the best
 books on JavaScript is: JavaScript: The Definitive
 Guide, by David
 Flanagan (O'Reilly  Associates, Inc.)

Couldn't agree more. A fantastic
 reference manual that will remain on
my desk for years to come.

Here's the
 complete 4th edition
 online:
http://157.26.64.29/OReilly_books/books/webprog/jscript/index.htm
fou
 nd via: http://www.maththinking.com/boat/booksIndex.html

I *believe* it's
 legal... fingers crossed!

-Andrew.
����.�Ȩ� b��i��y�-jwZ�� ������I
 瀆�i��y�-jwZ�� ������f���.�ץ�w����+�xb���p)��b�-�ax b����)���

Well, having just read this:

http://157.26.64.29/OReilly_books/books/webprog/jscript/copyrght.htm

... I suspect that it's not (legal, that is).

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Re: [WSG] Tables and divs and soon

2005-09-06 Thread Kevin Futter
I would posit that this association of poor markup and table-based design
has more to do with a certain approach to web development than merely a
raised risk of error in using table-based design. What I mean by that is
that most designers/developers who are entrenched in the table-based
approach are old skool, knowing nothing of standards-based approaches, or
dismissing them as unnecessary. This mindset also tends to treat HTML with
disdain, and the vast majority of designers/developers under this umbrella
fall into 1 of 3 categories:
1. Hacks who have been asked to produce websites for their
company/department in the absence of a qualified professional;
2. Old skool warriors whose hard-earned table-based hacks are just too
entrenched to let go of;
3. Programmers, who almost unanimously seem to treat the inevitable HTML
output of their web apps with contempt, or at best, as an afterthought.

The practical upshot of this is that they don't care, or know enough to
care, that their markup is invalid, and will always argue that it works.

I think the key here - and I know this was the case for me - is getting them
to understand the semantic value of their markup, more so than the simple
binary opposition of tables vs css. Being inspired to strip away all the
crap is the natural and inevitable result of the semantics light bulb coming
on in someone's head. Then they realise that it's not an arbitrary debate
about style or best practise, but about efficient and effective information
architecture and delivery.

Hope all that made sense!

Kevin

On 7/9/05 10:24 AM, John Allsopp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 And the location of the overwhelming percentage of these
 malformations is in and around tables.
 
 So the use of tables appears to be associated strongly with invalid
 documents (and not only through poorly formed documents, but also
 through the use of invalid attributes associated with td and tr
 elements).
 
 In short, using tables is a very good way of raising the risk of
 invalid documents.
 


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Re: [WSG] Safari 1.3 vs Safari 2 differences

2005-08-18 Thread Kevin Futter
On 19/8/05 8:22 AM, chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 quoteSafari 1.3 and 2.0 are supposed to be identical/quote
 
 I was recently working on a site that errors out completely in
 Safari/Tiger but works great in Safari/Panther.
 
 The error in Tiger is too many http requests when downloading images.
 However, viewing the activity bar for the same page, the error is shown
 for random images .. There's no (observable-to-me) consistency.
 
 Has anyone else witnessed a similar problem? I haven't located any
 resources yet.
 
 -chris

Are you sure that the Panther version of Safari you're using is 1.3? Safari
v1.3 *requires* 10.3.9, and in fact was part of that OS update. The
intention of the 1.3 update was to bring its rendering engine into line with
v2, effectively making them the same. You *should* be seeing the same
results in either version, OS-specific features aside (font rendering etc).

Having said all that, I'm not sure what's causing your error.


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Re: [WSG] Strange font-family behavior on Mac

2005-06-21 Thread Kevin Futter
On 22/6/05 6:52 AM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Marcello Cerruti wrote:
 I have the same strange problem that you can see on this Apple site  page:
 http://guide.apple.com/index.lasso
 If you look at the left side column with IE (Mac) or Firefox (Mac)  the
 font is different from the one that you can see on Safari, iCab,
 OmniWeb, Opera, and on all the Windows browsers as well.
 
 Not having a Mac, I can't test this, but: could it not just be the fact
 that (stab in the dark) Safari and co use a better font smoothing
 algorithm than FF and IE?

As far as I'm aware font smoothing is handled by the OS in OS X, and apps
are hands-off in this regard.

K

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Re: [WSG] Site check - lastminute.com

2005-05-25 Thread Kevin Futter
On 24/5/05 4:43 PM, Rick Faaberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 5/23/05 11:33 PM Kevin Futter [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent
 this out:
 
 I can't speak for all browsers, but I do find it annoying that Firefox on
 Windows has the print preview option, but Firefox on the Mac does not
 (latest versions). Makes it hard to recommend for verifying print output
 (assuming it would be at all accurate in the first place).
 
 On FF Mac, just choose File  Print and then click on Preview button. No?
 
 Hth,
 
 Rick Faaberg

Actually, that's correct, but more a function of OS X than FF. Still, thanks
for reminding me, and apologies for straying off-topic.

Kevin

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Re: [WSG] Site check - lastminute.com

2005-05-24 Thread Kevin Futter
On 22/5/05 10:23 AM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Thierry Koblentz wrote:
 
 I was talking about the user, not the designer. Most browsers do not offer a
 Print Preview option
 
 Getting off topic (so perhaps email me back off list) but: which
 browsers exactly?

I can't speak for all browsers, but I do find it annoying that Firefox on
Windows has the print preview option, but Firefox on the Mac does not
(latest versions). Makes it hard to recommend for verifying print output
(assuming it would be at all accurate in the first place).

Kevin

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Re: [WSG] Firefox bug?

2005-05-01 Thread Kevin Futter
On 2/5/05 8:04 AM, Matt Thommes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I experience this vertical line problem quite a bit. It only happens
 on my Mac - using Firefox.
 
 It's something to do with Firefox, because it doesn't seem to happen
 in any other browser.
 
 Also, I don't recommend Firefox for the Mac. For the PC, it's great.
 The Mac version has issues.

Issues? The only serious one I've come across is the completely
non-functional Import from file feature. It also delivers more JavaScript
errors than any other browser on either platform (apologies to Linux users).
Camino has even more issues (naturally, at v0.8.4), but access to the Web
Developer toolbar for Firefox certainly makes up for any (real or imagined)
shortcomings for anyone hoping to use Web Standards.

(For the record, Firefox is my primary browser on both platforms.)

Sorry if this is off-topic.

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Re: [WSG] double space after period

2005-02-01 Thread Kevin Futter
Apologies for being so late on this (been rather busy at work). The
double-space after a full-stop (period) thing is simply a notational
convention that sprang out of the typing pools of the 1950s. It has nothing
to do at all with grammar, and is in fact actively discouraged as practise
in the modern age. Many old school secretaries who may have come through
'secretarial school' swear by it, but it's a very out-of-date practise
confined to old school corporate documents. Anyone insisting on it now as
'grammatically correct' simply doesn't know what they're talking about.

Cheers,
Kevin Futter

On 23/1/05 10:23 PM, Iain Gardiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 It certainly has nothing to do with grammar, it's more a presentation
 convention that has evolved with type.  As for a solution, maybe the CSS
 property 'white-space: pre' would work?
 
 Iain
 
 --
 Iain Gardiner
 http://www.firelightning.com


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Re: [WSG] Help - newbie

2005-01-20 Thread Kevin Futter
Even Dreamweaver's code editing mode does this (context-sensitive syntax
highlighting). There's been a good deal of derogatory commentary about
Dreamweaver recently, but as a web IDE I think it's fantastic. Where people
get into trouble is by relying solely on WYSIWYG mode. I rarely use WYSIWYG
mode, but if you know what you're doing and stick to code editing mode it's
relatively easy to churn out standards-compliant code in DW.

On 21/1/05 1:32 AM, Alan Trick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 Actually that's nothing new.  Many of the better editors will do that.
 The reasons I switched were 1) I was using PHP and so many of the nice
 things like the built in HTML/CSS Validator.  2) Besides syntax
 highlighting, it doesn't really support PHP (as in being able to parse
 it on the fly) 3) Doesn't work in linux 4) Eclipse can do everything TSW
 Webcoder can do, everything I just mentioned (besides 1, but if I was
 smart enough I could just right and extention for that), and a whole lot
 more.
 
 Alan Trick
 


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Re: [WSG] Standards Macromedia Contribute

2004-12-15 Thread Kevin Futter
On 16/12/04 3:04 AM, david [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi Sam
 
 Whilsts not completely off-topic, this is relevant:
 
 It depends on the complexity of the CSS code for layout
 
 Macromedia's Contribute uses the same page-render engine as Dreamweaver, and
 we all know what that's like to work with ;)

Actually, at a Macromedia seminar I attended last year, Bob Regan told us
that the Contribute render engine was definitely NOT the same as
Dreamweaver's (newer and more advanced in fact, as my own tests seem to
indicate). He did say however that they were working towards integration and
uniformity of the two products, and I got the impression that meant
migrating Contribute's engine to Dreamweaver.

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Re: [WSG] using IE7 script

2004-12-15 Thread Kevin Futter
On 16/12/04 10:50 AM, Natalie Buxton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I wouldn't even be relying on my users having IE7, let alone JS being on or
 off.

Hi Natalie,

Andreas is not referring to MS's official IE7 here, but an extensive
JavaScript solution (confusingly called IE7) that attempts to make IE6
behave in a more standards-compliant manner. See the link that Andreas
supplied for more details.

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Re: [WSG] using IE7 script

2004-12-15 Thread Kevin Futter
On 16/12/04 11:16 AM, Natalie Buxton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I Know - I think everyone missed my second post that states as much :)

Actually, a little bit OT, but I often receive posts out of order or out of
sync, so my post actually went off long before your second post arrived. I
think this is why when the list admins scream CLOSED on a thread, messages
for that thread can still arrive thereafter - we're not being rebellious,
just slow to catch up!


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Re: [WSG] Cross browser background-position

2004-12-15 Thread Kevin Futter
On 16/12/04 2:29 PM, Jonathan T. Sage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Alright, so, I am out of ideas...
 
 page :  http://apathy.jtsage.com/
 
 css: http://apathy.jtsage.com/wp-layout.css
 
 is there any way that the effect achieved in firefox / mozilla can be
 achieved in IE/Win as well?  (that of the multiple background images
 with the one under the content div being fixed at the bottom of the
 viewport)
 
 My problem is that IE/Win does not support background-position: fixed
 in the same way that gecko does (or at all maybe?)  not sure which
 browser 'get's it right' here, but the desired effect is the one in
 firefox.

IIRC, background-position declarations are supposed to apply to any element
that can take an image as a background, but IE/Win supports it only on the
body element of a document.

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Re: [WSG] Validating unicode files

2004-12-12 Thread Kevin Futter
On 13/12/04 8:23 AM, Matthew Cruickshank
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi chaps,
 
 When it comes to text encoding the character range from 127-255 is, as I
 understand it, disputed territory. In that all kinds of regional hacks
 were used over the years and with Unicode they're no longer neccessary
 so I should avoid this range. I was just copying some text together and
 my xml parser didn't like it because of some characters in this range.
 It seems that even when you tell notepad.exe to save as utf-8 it
 sometimes doesn't.
 
 So is there a bit of software to validate UTF-8 encoded files?
 
 
 .Matthew Cruickshank
 http://holloway.co.nz/

My understanding is that it's a known 'feature' of Notepad to add some
internal proprietary identifier to UTF-8 encoded files that actually render
them invalid, so-to-speak. I'm sure someone else can explain it better than
I just did!

I've found this article quite useful, though it may not necessarily directly
address your problem:

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html

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Re: [WSG] Semantic Breadcrumbs

2004-12-06 Thread Kevin Futter
On 6/12/04 9:31 PM, Mordechai Peller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 
 Time to call a truce?
 
 I am unwilling to change my view as I've seen no reason to do so; in
 fact, I believe even more strongly now in what I'm  saying that I did
 when this discussion began. If you want to leave it at that, I won't
 object (not that an objection would be worth much, anyway).
 

OK, time to wrap this up methinks, as you seem to be getting a little testy
here Mordechai (and I'm sure this issue's had more than enough air time
now). By calling a truce I'm not asking you to change your mind, nor has
that been my goal throughout this discussion. I need to state this plainly I
think: I'm not against the use of lists for breadcrumbs, I think they're
fine; I do however take issue with the notion that they are the only
semantically valid approach. I too don't see any reason to change my views
on this, which renders further discussion/debate kinda pointless.

I respect your views on this issue Mordechai and you argue them well, and I
apologise if I've antagonised you in any way, but at the end of the day it's
better to 'agree to disagree' and move on to more fruitful discussions.

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Re: [WSG] Semantic Breadcrumbs

2004-12-05 Thread Kevin Futter
On 6/12/04 5:32 AM, Mordechai Peller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Richard Spence wrote:
 
 In my opinion a simple string of a/a would work just fine.  The
 information that you are trying to display is not really a list.
 
 I strongly disagree. Breadcrumbs are most definitely a list of links;
 they're even normally represented as a horizontal list. A list,
 according to The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language,
 Fourth Edition (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=list) is:
 
 A series of names, words, or other items written, printed, or imagined
 one after the other: a shopping list; a guest list; a list of things
 to do.
 
 Paul Farrell wrote:
 
 Am I correct in understanding that an ordered list is the best way of
 marking up a breadcrumb system that shows where a user has been ?
 
 As far as ordered or unordered goes, whether it shows where you've been
 or where you are, either is acceptable, though an ordered list is
 slightly better.
 
 Here's a couple of examples. The first uses borders for the arrows and
 works in IE6. The second uses generated content.
 http://testing.pellerweb.com/bclist1.html
 http://testing.pellerweb.com/bclist2.html
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I don't buy the argument that breadcrumbs *have to be* structured as lists.
Why? Because they're not a collection of loosely-related list items, like a
shopping list or such; rather, a unit of breadcrumbs collectively delineates
a *path* to a resource (without resorting to conventional OS-style paths).
For me it's a subtle but important difference that allows either approach to
work effectively. To take the 'breadcrumbs must be lists' argument to its
logical extreme would see us marking up sentences as ordered lists, with
individual words as list items, simply because each component has a
relationship to its neighbours. I don't see any inherent semantic
superiority in the list approach in this case.

Perhaps the W3C needs to introduce a breadcrumbs element?

Cheers,
Kevin Futter


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Re: [WSG] Semantic Breadcrumbs

2004-12-05 Thread Kevin Futter
On 6/12/04 10:12 AM, Jonathan T. Sage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I think for this argument, I would go towards the analogy of driving
 directions.
 
 1.) Go to the Home page
 2.) go the the sub-section  etc.
 
 Just my thought. 
 
 As for your comment about sentences as lists, everybody knows that a
 sentence isn't a list.  It needs to be a graphic since it's really a
 diagram anyways, and the unimportant words don't even go on there.
 
 (if you're young enough not to understand what I'm refering to,
 consider yourself lucky! for those who care to know -
 http://www.geocities.com/gene_moutoux/diagrams.htm )
 
 ~j
 
 
 
 I don't buy the argument that breadcrumbs *have to be* structured as lists.
 Why? Because they're not a collection of loosely-related list items, like a
 shopping list or such; rather, a unit of breadcrumbs collectively delineates
 a *path* to a resource (without resorting to conventional OS-style paths).
 For me it's a subtle but important difference that allows either approach to
 work effectively. To take the 'breadcrumbs must be lists' argument to its
 logical extreme would see us marking up sentences as ordered lists, with
 individual words as list items, simply because each component has a
 relationship to its neighbours. I don't see any inherent semantic
 superiority in the list approach in this case.
 
 Perhaps the W3C needs to introduce a breadcrumbs element?
 
 Cheers,
 Kevin Futter
 
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... everybody knows that a sentence isn't a list - this is a specious
argument. Sentences can indeed be construed as a list, particularly those
built with dependent clauses (true, this concept applies more readily to
paragraphs). I'm not arguing that lists are not the way to go, merely that I
don't see that approach as inherently superior, semantically, since the
relationship between breadcrumb elements is not as compellingly list-like,
and I'm beginning to understand why some are labelling lists as 'the new
tables'. But like I said, I don't think either approach is inappropriate.


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Re: [WSG] Semantic Breadcrumbs

2004-12-05 Thread Kevin Futter
On 6/12/04 11:09 AM, Mordechai Peller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Kevin Futter wrote:
 
 I don't buy the argument that breadcrumbs *have to be* structured as lists.
 Why? Because they're not a collection of loosely-related list items, like a
 shopping list or such; rather, a unit of breadcrumbs collectively delineates
 a *path* to a resource (without resorting to conventional OS-style paths).
  
 
 No, they're not loosely related collection of items, they're strongly
 related, so all the more so they should be a list.
 
 To take the 'breadcrumbs must be lists' argument to its logical extreme would
 see us marking up sentences as ordered lists, with individual words as list
 items, simply because each component has a relationship to its neighbours. I
 don't see any inherent semantic superiority in the list approach in this
 case.
 
 A sentence isn't a collection of related item because each word is
 dependent on the rest of the sentence to give it meaning. In a list,
 while the list itself may impart context, each item otherwise stands on
 it's own. Adding or removing items from a list doesn't change the
 meaning of the list, nor its members. Adding or removing words from a
 sentence changes the meaning of the sentence to such an extent that it
 may make the sentence meaningless. As with words of a sentence, to a
 slightly lesser extent, so could be said about sentences of a paragraph.

Yes, breadcrumb elements are strongly related in exactly the same way that
sentence elements (i.e. words) are; and sentences can be rendered with
precise meaning even if some words are omitted (prepositions, conjunctions,
most adverbs, many adjectives). You're chasing your tail here.

 Also, while the order of an ordered list imparts meaning to the list,
 little or no meaning is imparted to its item. Change the order of the
 words of a sentence, not only can the sentence take on new meaning, so
 can its words.

This is true, and in my opinion only makes it more useful in a breadcrumbs
context, as you can't arbitrarily move breadcrumb elements around or omit
them without destroying the meaning of the whole, either.

 
 Perhaps the W3C needs to introduce a breadcrumbs element?
  
 
 In XHTML 2 there's a navigation list (nl).

I did not know that - it sounds useful.


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Re: [WSG] Semantic Breadcrumbs

2004-12-05 Thread Kevin Futter
On 6/12/04 2:23 PM, Mordechai Peller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Kevin Futter wrote:
 
 Yes, breadcrumb elements are strongly related in exactly the same way that
 sentence elements (i.e. words) are; and sentences can be rendered with
 precise meaning even if some words are omitted (prepositions, conjunctions,
 most adverbs, many adjectives).
 
 Not at all in the same way. Each word in a sentence gets its meaning
 from the sentence, while with breadcrumbs its the list which receives
 meaning from the items. It's the commonality which the items bring to
 the list which gives the list meaning. Words of a sentence have no
 commonality outside the sentence.
 
 Removing any word from a sentence removes meaning from the sentence.
 Take His car, versus His blue car. The latter conveys more meaning
 than the former. A longer breadcrumb list may provide more information
 than a shorter one, but no additional meaning.

I think we're crossing at talked purposes here. I see breadcrumbs as a
complete unit - just as a file path is a complete unit; take out a component
and you render it useless. The fact that each breadcrumb unit is hyperlinked
to the resource it represents is less important in my view than the fact
that they clearly show where you are in the document hierarchy. And therein
lies the rub: lists are one-dimensional, as you yourself point out
elsewhere; breadcrumbs attempt to represent a path across the document
hierarchy, whereas lists imply, and are taken to imply, that each element
exists on the same hierarchical plane. To me, they imply a semantic
structure that is not consistent with what breadcrumbs are trying to
achieve.
 
 A word outside a sentence is of little
 worth, however, the value of a link is unchanged irrespective of whether
 or not it's in a list. If I were to say blue, you would likely respond
 'Blue what? because the word blue isn't useful on its own. On the
 other hand, the link http://www.somedomain.com/thispage.html; means the
 same thing wherever you encounter it.

I disagree - there is profound meaning in a single word, but we're
definitely off-topic for web standards now! But as I said earlier, I'm not
so interested in the individual breadcrumb components, linked or not, as I
am in the breadcrumb unit as a whole.


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Re: [WSG] Semantic Breadcrumbs

2004-12-05 Thread Kevin Futter
On 6/12/04 4:04 PM, Mordechai Peller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Kevin Futter wrote:

 Less important doesn't mean not important.

Exactly, which is why I didn't say not important ...

 
 And therein lies the rub: lists are one-dimensional, as you yourself point
 out
 elsewhere; breadcrumbs attempt to represent a path across the document
 hierarchy, whereas lists imply, and are taken to imply, that each element
 exists on the same hierarchical plane.
 
 Not ordered lists. The fact that they are ordered gives them a hierarchy.

You can slice it and dice it however you want, but 'order' does not mean
'hierarchy'. Any given unit cannot exist in the same physical or virtual
space as any other unit, so it has to displaced from them. This displacement
has to be ordered, sometimes arbitrarily; the result is not necessarily a
hierarchy, and it is folly to assume that it is so. Order is horizontal
integration, hierarchy is vertical integration.


 Perhaps, except semantics are important to Web standards.
 

Perhaps, but Web standards semantics are not the same as linguistic
semantics, and neither has much to do with the compressed meaning a single
word can contain.

Time to call a truce?

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Re: [WSG] Code or Markup

2004-12-02 Thread Kevin Futter
Title: Re: [WSG] Code or Markup



In the document editing and proofing field (obviously related to the typesetting industry as its natural precursor in the workflow chain), markup is the word used to describe an editors or a proofreaders copy editing symbols. Corrections are made by hand using a specialised symbol set and then handed off to the relevant person to implement  the document is said to be marked up for correction.

Getting further off topic here ...

Cheers,
Kevin

On 3/12/04 12:29 AM, Marilyn Langfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Well, speaking again as a print designer, markup is a typesetting industry term meaning applying styles (yes style tags) to text (and has been for a very long time). 

Used to be, you'd mark up text to send to the typographer. They'd apply that markup to text in whatever technology was employed at the time (hot metal to phototype). 

With desktop publishing wiping out that industry, anyone who styles text (read content) is marking it up--whether in Word or BBedit, WordPress or Dreamweaver. I'd say that CSS is a markup language developed to separate markup from coding, Which is why CSS works together with XSLT to style XML. I don't know the history. Was CSS developed first for XSLT/XML and then applied to HTML? Or vice versa? 

Best regards, 

Marilyn Langfeld 
http://www.langfeldesigns.com 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
+1.301.598.3300 business phone 
+1.301.598.0532 fax 
+1.202.390.8847 mobile 



-- 
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Webmaster, St. Bernard's College
http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/






Re: [WSG] Code or Markup

2004-12-01 Thread Kevin Futter
On 2/12/04 1:33 PM, Nick Lo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 This seems a silly question but it bounces about enough that whilst
 discussing it with a client I thought I'd put it to the list.
 
 During development when referring to HTML (and perhaps CSS) with a
 client do you use the term code or the more pedantically correct,
 though perhaps less recognised, term markup ?
 
 I'm asking as I often wonder which one the client grasps first.
 
  From The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing:
 
 code:
  software Instructions for a computer in some programming
  language, often machine language.  The word code is often
  used to distinguish instructions from data (e.g. The code
  is marked 'read-only') whereas software is used in
  contrast with hardware and may consist of more than just
  code.
 
 markup
  text In computerised document preparation, a method of
  adding information to the text indicating the logical
  components of a document, or instructions for layout of the
  text on the page or other information which can be interpreted
  by some automatic system.
 
  For example, the source of this dictionary is marked up by
  enclosing cross-references in curly braces which are
  significant to the World-Wide Web server software.
 
 Nick

I tend to use 'code', because a) this indeed makes more immediate sense for
the client, and b) in a less technical definition, markup *can* be
considered code, in that markup tags are the codes that the relevant parser
requires to render the expected output. In fact, my other commonly used
option is just to say 'HTML' - just about everybody understands roughly what
that is, conceptually at least.

Cheers,
Kevin

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Re: Focus highlighting, was Re: [WSG] Some links for light reading (30/11/04)

2004-11-30 Thread Kevin Futter
I interpreted 'IR' to stand for 'image replacement', such as FIR and sFIR et
al.

Cheers,
Kevin Futter

On 1/12/04 7:50 AM, Terrence Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I'm not sure what IR refers to. Here's the the CSS rule explained:
 
snip

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http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/



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Re: [WSG] Adobe Forum comment on CSS in visual editors

2004-11-28 Thread Kevin Futter
On 26/11/04 6:10 PM, Rick Faaberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 11/25/04 9:46 PM Sam - SS29 [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent this out:
 
 As far as I see Adobe is not to bothered with webstandards, Macromedia
 see standard compliance as a string to DW bow.
 
 The adobe site is based old skool web design, surface looks nice but
 underneth its ugly.
 
 Sorry, but your post is idiotic.
 
 I use GoLive everyday and all the code it produces is standard. What
 GoLive are you using that produces non-standard code?
 
 Rick Faaberg
 
 Ps. Please learn to spell, and to use apostrophes for plurals and
 contractions correctly. Thanks!

This is decidedly off-topic but I'll put it out there anyway. Rick, I hope
you're not suggesting here that plurals require apostrophes! For the record,
plurals only require apostrophes if they are also possessive. I'm sure
you're phrasing is just misleading here - we can discuss it off list if
necessary.

Cheers,
Kevin


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Re: [WSG] Margin Madness

2004-11-02 Thread Kevin Futter
Actually, it's been my experience that using transparent makes no difference
to the layout problems. For me, I've always had to define a border colour -
obviously the same as the background colour - in order for this 'hack' to
work.

Cheers,
Kevin Futter

On 1/11/04 10:55 AM, Andrew Krespanis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Another is to add a 1px border of the same colour as the container - depends
 on your need.
 
 Or even
 border:1px solid transparent;
 
 
 Andrew
 
 http://leftjustified.net/
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Re: [WSG] Firebird / Mozilla

2004-11-02 Thread Kevin Futter
On 3/11/04 1:09 AM, Nick Gleitzman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On 2 Nov 2004, at 11:38 PM, Sam Hutchinson wrote:
 
 Hi all,
  
 Fairly new here and been monitoring list for a day or so, all very
 useful stuff.
  
 Anyway, i'm having a bit of trouble with hanging images - my right
 image hangs into the footer on Mozilla - any ideas?
 http://www.sammyco.co.uk/pages/solutions/default.html
  
 Page validates as xhtml  css, and works ok everywhere else but still
 looks slightly odd in Moz
  
 Cheers
 Sam
 
 ---
 -
 SAM[MY]CO » CREATIVE DESIGN SOLUTIONS
 » website [re]launch november 04
 http://www.sammyco.co.uk/ 
 ...let's fix the web !
  
 
 Just noticed something about Sam's javascript - he's using a chunk of
 code to display a rotating message in the status bar - and in Firefox,
 even when I have another site loaded in a new tab, Sam's contact
 details are still happily rotating right there at the bottom of the
 screen. Not very friendly - kind of hijacks the second site...
 Comments? (or not, if it's OT)
 

I've noticed this about Firefox too - it appears that the status bar belongs
to the parent window, and child tabs open in the same window will inherit
any status bar wrangling that is applied to that window. IMHO this is a
minor flaw in the way Firefox uses the status bar, as it should be relative
to the current tab, not the 'containing' window. Do any other tabbed or
Gecko-based browsers exhibit this behaviour?

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Re: [WSG] skip to content (was: Site Review Request)

2004-10-27 Thread Kevin Futter
While I agree with the idea of clarifying the destination, I disagree with
the logic of your choice here. The pronunciation issues with A are
significant enough to warrant B as the first choice.

Cheers,
Kevin 

On 27/10/04 6:48 PM, Mike Foskett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Clarify the destination.
 
 So if there is more than one set of content B. otherwise A.
 
 mike 2k:)2
  
 marqueeblink
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
site: http://www.webSemantics.co.uk
 /marquee/blink
  
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: john [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 27 October 2004 09:38
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [WSG] skip to content (was: Site Review Request)
 
 
 So, what do others think?
 
 A. skip to content
 B. skip to main content
 C. skip navigation
 
 ~john
 _
 Dr. Zeus Web Development
 http://www.DrZeus.net
 content without clutter
 
 
 
 
 Damian Sweeney wrote:
 Regarding skip to content links, I found this article recently about
 usability testing of screen reader users:
 
 http://www.stcsig.org/usability/newsletter/0304-observing.html
 
 In particular under the 'Many want to skip the navigation, but don't
 use
 that feature' section:
 
 Some developers have used the phrase Skip to Content instead of
 Skip
 Navigation. Good idea. But it does not work because content in
 English can be a noun or an adjective. JAWS reads it here as an
 adjective with the accent on the second syllable. So it does not make
 sense to users. A solution that does seem to work is Skip to Main
 Content. JAWS reads that correctly as the noun content with the
 accent on the first syllable.
 
 Cheers,
 
 Damian
 
 I like it.  Clean and simple.
 
 IMO, you should include a skip to content link for the screen
 readers.
 
 ~john
 _
 Dr. Zeus Web Development
 http://www.DrZeus.net
 content without clutter
 
 
 
 
 Daniel Bowling wrote:
 
 Hello, I would greatly appreciate any feedback for my personal site
 regarding design, standards compliance, usability and general code
 quality.
 
 http://www.danbowling.com
 
 Thank you for your time,
 
 Dan Bowling
 W: http://www.danbowling.com
 
 
 
 
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Re: [WSG] Stadards Site Section

2004-10-24 Thread Kevin Futter
Hi Chris,

The semi-accessible way of creating JavaScript pop-ups would go something
like this:

Create a js function called popWindow() or somesuch, with all the relevant
code to create your pop-up window. Your HTML code would then look something
like this:

a href=myWindow.html onclick=popWindow('myWindow.html'); return
false;Click here/a

This essentially creates the pop-up window if JavaScript is available, but
falls back to just loading the linked page in the same window if it isn't.

Cheers,
Kevin


On 25/10/04 6:18 AM, Chris Kennon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi,
 
 It doesn't keep page count down after thinking about it, can you direct
 me to the correct solution you alluded to.
 
 
 C
 On Saturday, October 23, 2004, at 11:30 PM, Mordechai Peller wrote:
 
 Chris Kennon wrote:
 
 I dread the use of JS  pop up windows, but would like to keep the
 page count down,
 
 Besides being potentially inaccessible to those without JavaScript
 (unless done correctly) or XP SP2, and annoying to those where it does
 function (again, depending on how and where it's done), since each
 pop-up is a separate page, how does it  keep the page count down?
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 Imagination is more important than knowledge.
 -Albert Einstein
 
 
 Chris Kennon
 Principal
 ckimedia (www.ckimedia.com)
 ph: (619)429-3258
 fax: (619)429-3258
 e-mail: ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
 
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Re: [WSG] Stadards Site Section

2004-10-24 Thread Kevin Futter
On 25/10/04 12:13 PM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Kevin Futter wrote:
 
 a href=myWindow.html onclick=popWindow('myWindow.html'); return
 false;Click here/a
 
 Small modification: use popWindow(this.href) to refer back to the A
 element's HREF attribute. This way, if you change the href at some
 point, you won't have to remember to change the javascript as well, as
 it will automatically pick it up...
 
 Patrick H. Lauke

Thanks Patrick - I wasn't aware of this trick. Nice one.

Kevin



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Re: [WSG] 256 colours or the whole enchilada?

2004-10-21 Thread Kevin Futter
Here's a link to an article that convinced me the Websafe colour palette
sits alongside Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster ...

http://webmonkey.wired.com/webmonkey/00/37/index2a.html?tw=design

Cheers,
Kevin Futter

On 21/10/04 4:49 PM, Neerav [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 http://www.mail-archive.com/cgi-bin/htsearch?method=andformat=shortconfig=ws
 g_webstandardsgroup_orgrestrict=exclude=words=Web+safe+colours+-+still+rele
 vent 
 will answer our question
 
 Neerav Bhatt
 http://www.bhatt.id.au
 Web Development  IT consultancy
 
 http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts
 http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav
 
 Andreas Boehmer wrote:
 Out of curiosity: what's your stand to the 216 web colours? Do you stick
 with them or do you go the full 16 bits?
 
 I personally have stopped limiting myself a long time ago (unless
 absolutely necessary), but keep coming across articles warning me from
 doing so.
 
 What's your thoughts?
 
 
 
 Andreas Boehmer
 User Experience Consultant
 
 Phone: (03) 9417 0468
 Mobile: (0411) 097 038
 http://www.addictiveMedia.com.au
 Consulting | Accessibility | Usability | Development
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Re: [WSG] Broken Menus and Bullets

2004-10-20 Thread Kevin Futter
I interpreted this as a z-index issue too ... (but I didn't check the code).

Kevin


On 21/10/04 1:48 PM, Stephen Cheshire [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 What's the z-index of the block of text starting with Maecenas laoreet
 laoreet...
 
 is it greater than the submenus? Because I'm thinking the menus aren't
 transparent but simply behind the text?
 
 Steve.
 
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Behalf Of Natalie Buxton
 Sent: Thursday, 21 October 2004 1:31 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [WSG] Broken Menus and Bullets
 
 
 Hi All
 
 Im having big issues with a design Im working on.
 
 Example live: http://pixelkitty.net/devel/wsg/whirl.php
 
 The left Menu is broken in both Mozilla and IE on Windows. As you go
 further down, the menu items are transparent. The menu is the basic
 one from ALA's horizontal drop down example.
 
 issue two is that when the menu is included in the #sidebar , my
 bullets dissapear in the #content.
 
 This issue is driving me completely insane and I just cannot work out
 where the conflict is.
 
 Looking forward to your advice.
 
 Natalie
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Re: [WSG] w3c badges

2004-10-17 Thread Kevin Futter
Hi Rick,

You're not tied to using the W3C images, and there are a few good
replacements around. I'm using a pretty common set of examples on the front
page of my site (http://www.klp.com.au/). They're not mine, and I've
forgotten exactly where I borrowed them from (so apologies to the original
creator), but they are free to use (otherwise I wouldn't be using them).

I also agree with your last point - the general public neither knows nor
cares about this stuff. We developers only do it for self-congratulation and
brownie points from other developers and standards zealots. I'd certainly
think twice (or more) before putting them on a client's site.

Cheers,
Kevin

On 18/10/04 12:50 PM, Rick Faaberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi all,
 
 Who can I send a suggestion to at W3C that they make their web badges a lot
 more subtle (and smaller) so that I would actually use them on my sites?
 
 Or do I just put up text that says W3C Valid? Is that what you do?
 
 Or just forget it entirely, 'cause who beside developers care in the first
 place?
 
 Best,
 
 Rick Faaberg
 
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Re: [WSG] w3c badges

2004-10-17 Thread Kevin Futter
I think for most clients you just don't go there - after all, it's their
site, not yours. They don't know or care about web standards, and neither do
their clients - it just doesn't mean anything to them, so is hardly useful
for evangelical purposes. Imagine if all TV commercials had a SMPTE banner
splashed across their final moments ...

(Still, there are always exceptions.)

Cheers,
Kevin

On 18/10/04 2:08 PM, Rick Faaberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I also agree with your last point - the general public neither knows nor
 cares about this stuff. We developers only do it for self-congratulation and
 brownie points from other developers and standards zealots. I'd certainly
 think twice (or more) before putting them on a client's site.
 
 What is your opinion (and practice) with regard to putting the W3C badges on
 you clients' sites?
 
 I'm thinking just don't do it.
 
 Best,
 
 Rick Faaberg
 
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Re: [WSG] CSS caching problem in IE and Firefox

2004-10-12 Thread Kevin Futter
Hi Sean,

IE on both platforms is notorious for its caching issues, but is especially
tenacious on the Mac (though this is the first time I've heard of problems
with Firefox). The usual solution, which doesn't always work, is to hold
down the shift key while hitting refresh/reload (from memory, it's the
option key for IE/Mac - maybe someone else here can clarify). In the past,
I've had to resort to deleting temporary Internet files, closing the
browser, restarting the machine and starting from scratch (on Windows). Even
then my mileage varied.

Good luck!

Kevin Futter

On 13/10/04 8:21 AM, Sean Ho @ W3 Compliant Sites [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Hi all,
 
 I am having this caching problem everytime I update my CSS file and the
 browser suddenly stop showing the new changes. This only happens in IE
 and Firefox occasioinally. I realised it straight away it's a caching
 problem but often clearing the cache (or temporary internet files in IE)
 doesn't make any difference. The only browser that I know that does work
 everytime though is Opera. But for IE and Firefox, I sometimes have to
 wait for 10 or 15 minutes before I hit refresh then only it will
 register the new changes.
 
 I use Firefox mainly for my browsing but always check my pages in IE and
 Opera. Is there anything I can do when this problem occur again for IE
 and Firefox?
 
 Lil' annoyed,
 Sean.
 http://w3csites.com
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Re: [WSG] Mac Tools Kit for Web Standards Developer

2004-10-11 Thread Kevin Futter
On Windows I use Crimson Editor (sorry, can't provide a link right now, but
I'm sure Google can), which shares many of the same features as SubEthaEdit,
such as syntax colouring for multiple languages. In fact, in Crimson this is
extensible through syntax modules, so in theory it could support ANY syntax.
It's free, too.

Cheers,
Kevin Futter

On 12/10/04 1:05 AM, Genau Junior [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Anybody  knows some software like that for Windows?
 
 
 Genau Lopes Júnior
 WebDesigner
 
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Clayton Lengel-Zigich [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 1:12 AM
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Mac Tools Kit for Web Standards Developer
 
 
 I really like SubEthaEdit!
 
 http://www.codingmonkeys.de/subethaedit/
 
 
 On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:20:42 +1000, Amit Karmakar
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Just ro reiterate. Style Master rocks! Nothing come close to it. I
 switched a few months back and only ever use my windows box sparingly.
 There is no coming back from  a PowerBook! While I use BBEdit a lot I
 do like Xpad a whole lot too for quick edits etc
 
 
 
 
 On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 08:52:28 +1000, John Allsopp [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
 From: Andy Budd
 
 Not forgetting Style Master http://www.westciv.com/style_master/
 
 Andy Budd
 
 
 Yeah, I was waiting for that one to come up.
 
 
 Thanks Andy and Geoff
 
 Review comparing Mac CSS Editors at the bible MacWorld here
 
 http://www.macworld.com/2004/07/reviews/cascadingstylesheeteditors/?
 lsrc=mwweek-0719
 
 John
 
 John Allsopp
 
 :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/
 software, courses, resources for a standards based web
 :: style master blog ::
 http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/
   :: WebEssentials Sept 2004 Sydney Australia ::
 http://www.we04.com
 
 
 
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 --
 Regards,
 Amit Karmakar
 http://karmakars.com
 
 
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 --
 Clayton Lengel-Zigich
 http://www.lengelzigich.com
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Re: [WSG] Mac Tools Kit for Web Standards Developer

2004-10-10 Thread Kevin Futter
I use Dreamweaver MX2004 for site development and SubethaEdit for nuts and
bolts text editing. I know some people are leery of DW because they see it
as purely a WYSIWYG solution, but its code editing tools are robust and its
site management tools can't be matched by any text-editor. And it makes a
decent fist of producing compliant code. I almost never switch it to visual
layout mode these days.

SubethaEdit is impressive, especially given that it's free, and it comes
with a bunch of preset 'pretty print' modules for code colouring in a number
of syntaxes.

By the way Kristof, I use Transmit too, but unlike you I think it sucks, and
is poor in comparison to things like WS_FTP on Windows.

Cheers,
Kevin


On 9/10/04 2:13 AM, Kristof Rutten [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi Geoff,
 
   I've 'switchted' sides in March of this year and haven't returned to
 my old Win-platofrm ;)
 
   Tools I use most while desingning :
 
   CSSEdit from MacRabbit - http://www.macrabbit.com/cssedit/
   Transmit - a great FTP client -http://www.panic.com/transmit/
   CocoaMySQL - database tool - http://cocoamysql.sourceforge.net/
 
   Take care, the OS X platform is highly adictive and you are not likely
 to return
   to your old win/linux boxes ;)
 
 Regards, .K
 
 
 On 08 Oct 2004, at 12:36, Geoff Deering wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 I'm wondering what tools Mac developers out there use?  I'm basically
 and
 windows and linux person, but will get a small iBook for travelling and
 testing on next week.  I'll be OS in Nov/Dec and need to still do some
 work,
 so I need to be able to work pretty comfortably on the Mac.  On
 Windows I
 mainly use TopStylePro.
 
 Appreciate any Mac software tips for standards based development
 
 -
 Regards
 Geoff Deering
 
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Re: [WSG] Mac Tools Kit for Web Standards Developer

2004-10-10 Thread Kevin Futter
On 11/10/04 10:11 AM, Paul Connolley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On 11 Oct 2004, at 00:54, Kevin Futter wrote:
 
 SubethaEdit is impressive, especially given that it's free, and it
 comes
 with a bunch of preset 'pretty print' modules for code colouring in a
 number
 of syntaxes.
 
 By the way Kristof, I use Transmit too, but unlike you I think it
 sucks, and
 is poor in comparison to things like WS_FTP on Windows.
 
 Transmit is quite nice but is as good an FTP client as Fugu or
 Cyberduck. Combine this with the fact that they both work with SEE
 (SubEthaEdit), in that it combines SFTP functions with the editor, I
 don't need a website management program.

True, but try doing a site-wide, 200-page find-and-replace with a
text-editor; or move a dependent file to a new directory and have the
software automatically update all dependent links in all pages ...

Anyway, I fully appreciate that we all have our various ways of working!

Cheers,
Kevin Futter



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Re: [WSG] thoughts of external links in new window?

2004-10-05 Thread Kevin Futter
Another issue there of course is that there is no task bar in Mac OS, and
that in WinXP separate windows for the same application no longer have
separate task bar buttons, but are 'stacked' in a single application button.
This further reduces any chance of universal comprehensibility with pop-up
windows.

Compounding the annoyance and confusion they (pop-up windows) cause with
back buttons and navigation, those of us who use and prefer tabbed browsing
find that unexpected new windows are exactly that - new windows, not new
tabs on the existing window, and all our existing tabs suddenly 'disappear'.
I find this disconcerting, even as an experienced user and developer.

Having said all that, I still occasionally use pop-up windows, but never
full-screen, and only as an adjunct to the current site. For example, one of
my sites for a musician includes a Flash-based audio player that opens (on a
user-initiated click) in a small pop-up, allowing visitors to continue to
load and listen to her songs, even after moving off to another site.

Cheers,
Kevin Futter

On 6/10/04 2:16 PM, John Horner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Almost too obvious to point out, but we have a web-based app which
 opens (full-sized) new windows sometimes, and in training, I often
 have people say what happened to the Back button? It doesn't work!
 -- if they're running a maximised Windows browser, a new window
 opening is often indistinguishable from navigation to another page.
 These are not the kind of users who will look down at the taskbar and
 notice a second window icon for IE and figure it out for themselves.
 
 Have You Validated Your Code?
 John Horner(+612 / 02) 9333 2110
 Senior Developer, ABC Online  http://www.abc.net.au/
 
 
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Re: [WSG] Semantically creating 'pipes' for footer links

2004-10-04 Thread Kevin Futter
Title: Re: [WSG] Semantically creating 'pipes' for footer links



For the line wrapping issue, you could try:

whitespace: nowrap;

On whatever element is giving you trouble.

Cheers,
Kevin Futter

On 5/10/04 11:28 AM, Richard Czeiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hi guys,

I'm putting together a semantically correct UL of links for my footer.
I'd like to have them separated by 'pipes' as this is a common and easily recognised technique.
But the pipes themselves are irrelevant (semantically). So here's what I've come up with...

ALSO! My one thing is that if the text inside the links is made up of two or more words, then they get pushed to separate lines. Is there a way to avoid this without specifying a width or without putting a 'no broken spaces' between the words?
Can you suggest anything better?


style type=text/css
#footer {
text-align: center; 
}
#footer ul li {
display: inline; width: 1px; 
margin: auto 5px; padding-left: 10px; border-left: 1px solid #00; 
line-height: 120%; 
}
#footer ul li:first-child { border-left: none; }
/* Not rendered by a few agents, so we'll use the 'footerBorderKill' _javascript_ function switches off the first child's left border */
/style

div id=footer
ul id =contentLinks
lia href="" title=Link 1 accesskey=1link/a/li
lia href="" title=Link 2 accesskey=2link with multiple words/a/li
lia href="" title=Link 3 accesskey=3link/a/li
lia href="" title=Link 4 accesskey=4linknbsp;withnbsp;NoBrokenSpaces/a/li
lia href="" title=Link 5 accesskey=5link/a/li
/ul
ul id=validationLinks
lia href="" href="http://validator.w3.org/check/referer">http://validator.w3.org/check/referer rel=external title=Check XHTMLxhtml/a/li
lia href="" href="http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/check/referer">http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/check/referer rel=external title=Check CSScss/a/li
lia href="" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/">http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/ rel=external title=View licensecc/a/li
/ul
/div

script type=text/_javascript_//![CDATA[
// Kills the Left Border on the Footer Navigation
function footerBorderKill() {
myBody=document.getElementById('footer');
myBodyElements=myBody.getElementsByTagName(ul); // Gets all the UL elements that are children of 'footer'
for( var i = 0; i  myBodyElements.length; i++ ) {
myList=myBodyElements.item(i); // Loops through all the ULs in the footer
myListElements=myList.getElementsByTagName(li); // Gets all the LI elements that are children of the ULs
myLI=myListElements.item(0); // Gets the first item of the list of LI elements
myLI.style.borderLeft = 'none'; // And sets its border to nothing
}
}
window.>
//]]/script









Re: [WSG] IE problem with CSS tabs

2004-09-30 Thread Kevin Futter
Actually, I apply classes and styles to hrefs all the time - it's the only
way to emulate button functionality on a text link.

Cheers,
Kevin

On 1/10/04 9:23 AM, David McKinnon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 My very sincerest apologies, John.
 I made one small change to the HTML before I started fiddling with the CSS
 (but which I completely forgot to tell you about).
 I applied the active class to the list item, rather than the a link:
 ul id=tabmenu
   li class=activea href=./index.htmlhome/a/li
 I'm pretty sure that you don't apply classes to the a href bit. I've never
 seen it done (which is why I changed it) but others may know better.
 Sorry about that. This is the one that works for me.
 David
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of john
 Sent: Thursday, 30 September 2004 6:01 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [WSG] IE problem with CSS tabs
 
 Thanks, David, for the suggestions (and for the code).  I implemented the
 changes, however nothing seems to have changed.  I don't understand why that
 would be, as everything you said makes perfect sense.  However, I'm still
 not the getting the you are here active tab in IE.
 
 Any other possible ideas I should consider?
 
 Thanks again.
 
 ~john
 _
 Dr. Zeus Web Development
 http://www.DrZeus.net
 content without clutter
 
 
 
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Re: [WSG] PNGs and IE windows

2004-09-29 Thread Kevin Futter
My understanding is that while IE Win supports the display of PNG files, it
doesn't support any of their transparency features. If you want to use
transparency for images in a cross-browser safe way, GIF is really your only
option. I wouldn't be holding my breath for IE to catch up either ...

Cheers,
Kevin Futter

On 30/9/04 8:48 AM, Wayne Godfrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Could someone please explain what I can and can't do with a PNG image in IE
 Windows? I have a logo with a soft drop shadow that works everywhere except
 IE Win. In IE, there is a gray box that where the transparency should be. So
 I tried one with a solid drop shadow and the transparent part of the PNG
 still shows gray. I've read that I can't use alpha transparencies with IE,
 but I'm not sure how IE defines alpha transparencies. Any help will be
 appreciated. 
 
 Thanks to this list, I've had three or four questions answered without ever
 asking, in the four days I've been a part. I only wish I felt more able to
 answer some questions myself...
 
 Wayne Godfrey
 
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Re: [WSG] fixed background...

2004-09-28 Thread Kevin Futter
The 'fixed' property for element background images works in IE only for the
body selector, and fails in all other cases.

Cheers,
Kevin

On 28/9/04 7:27 PM, john [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Ladies and Gentlemen:
 
 I'm attempting my first fixed background, and I have one question and
 need one solution to a problem.
 
 question: is it supposed to work in IE?
 
 problem: in FF, even though I believe the syntax is correct, it's not
 fixing.  I have a sidepanel ID created specifically to house the
 fixed image (and I've also stuck the same image on the page itself, for
 experimentation purposes).  I tried, instead, to fix the image as a
 background of the content ID (floating left and bottom), but I was
 getting whitespace gaps in the image, and the content in the content
 ID was wigging in IE...that remains a mystery.
 
 I admit that I'm very new at this stuff, and so I'm rather embarassed to
 even mention it (worrying that it's a simple mistake that is easily
 corrected).
 
 You can see what I'm talking about at
 http://www.drzeus.net/redesign/cslewis/
 
 Any assistance in this matter would be greatly appreciated.  I have
 other questions (ie: how can I get the menu to stick in place in IE as
 it does in Firefox), but I'll save those for another time. ;)
 
 Much obliged!



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Re: [WSG] Mac IE5 double character weirdness

2004-09-27 Thread Kevin Futter
Hi James,

I get it too on IE 5.2, but only for the password field, not the username
field. The only difference I can see between the 2 fields is the 'value='
attribute, so maybe try adding that to the password field and see if it
makes any difference.

Kevin

On 28/9/04 1:17 PM, James Ellis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi
 
 Looks like it's Mac IE 5 day today...
 
 Has anyone experienced this before? Mac IE 5.x user hits a page with a
 login form. When they tab to the form field and type in their details
 two characters appear for every one typed.
 If the user clicks in the field with their mouse the problem goes away.
 
 Here's the markup, pretty standard stuff:
 
 fieldset
 legend Returning user login/legend
 
   label for=emailEmail address
 input class=textfield name=email type=text id=email value=
   /label
 label for=passwordEmail password
   input class=textfield name=password type=password id=password
 /label
 
 /fieldset
 
 You can see it in action at my.spamtrap.net.au (but only duplicated with
   the above browser). Validates as HTML 4 Trans.
 
 Cheers
 James
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Re: [WSG] Embedding Flash

2004-09-23 Thread Kevin Futter
I thoroughly agree with David here. Web standards are a means to an end and
not an end in themselves. The way I see it, the point of web standards is to
a) separate form from content and both from behaviour; b) make all content
equally accessible to the widest possible audience; c) provide a
predictable, reliable model that we can all work with. It seems to me that
trying to use 'web standards techniques' for embedding Flash content fails
at least two of these aims, and isn't worth pursuing just so that some
software program will 'validate' your code. If you've done everything else
pretty close to right, then the only validation you really need is that your
intended audience sees everything they need to see. After all, Flash content
isn't that accessible to begin with - insisting on embedding it with
strictly valid code is a bit like putting handles on an elephant to make it
easier to carry across a swollen river ...

Cheers,
Kevin Futter

On 24/9/04 8:53 AM, David McKinnon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Reiterating Ben's comments and Zeldman's summary of the problems with the
 Satay method in Designing With Web Standards, that's exactly the problem
 with the Satay--sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. On some
 browsers, on some machines, sometimes. I think Zeldman's comment is how many
 people do you want to choose to alienate?
 This may sound like heresy in this list, but the goal of using Web standards
 is not to get your site to validate. (Wait, put down that pitchfork!) The
 way I see it people, is that it's all about people. The goal is to make it
 better for people. Better for viewers, who don't get things looking like
 krud because they choose the 'wrong' browser or platform. Better for people
 with special needs. Better for people who build and maintain the site and
 better for the people who will redesign the site when it comes to that.
 Then, when the forces of good rise up to crush the forces of tyranny all
 people will live in...
 
 Er... sorry, got a bit carried away there...
 Anyway it may just be better to use the flash default code because it works
 even if it doesn't validate.
 No, not the torch! Arrgh!
 David
 

 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Mike Foskett
 Sent: Friday, 24 September 2004 12:08 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: [WSG] Embedding Flash
 
 Just checked it in:
 
 PC: Opera v7, Firefox v1, IE v6.
 Mac: Safari v1, firefox v1, Netscape v7, IE v5.2
 
 All displayed just fine.
 I'd remind you to replace some of the alt tags though (intro1.jpg etc).
 And perhaps consider adding house doctor to the initial h1.
 
 mike 2k:)2
  
 marqueeblink
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
site: http://www.webSemantics.co.uk
 /marquee/blink
  
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Ian Fenn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 23 September 2004 11:58
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: [WSG] Embedding Flash
 
 
 Mark wrote:
 Unless there is a major reason to be XHTML then I normally use HTML
 4.01 - even if only on the pages with flash included.
 
 That's what I'm going to do now :-(
 
 Thanks for the help everyone!
 
 All the best,
 
 --
 Ian
 
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Re: [WSG] css validation error

2004-09-20 Thread Kevin Futter
My understanding was that there shouldn't be a comma in the shorthand font
selector after Trebuchet MS (but I could be wrong ...).

Cheers,
Kevin Futter

On 20/9/04 4:26 PM, John Oxton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Maybe you could try not using the font shorthand to get it to validate,
 try it as font-family etc. Could it be that there is something missing
 from that rule? Certainly one I have had problem with before.
 
 Cameron Muir wrote:
 Thanks for pointing that out John - serves me right for not cleaning out
 disused styles.
 
 However, I'm still getting the same error.
 
 
 John Oxton wrote:
 
 Hi Cameron,
 You have this
 
 .paymate {
 position: relative:
 top: 20px;
 right: 10px;
 }
 
 the position:relative needs a semi colon and you should be on your way
 
 Regards,
 John,
 
 Cameron Muir wrote:
 
 Hello,
 
 I can't work out why this is producing an error. I'm sure there must
 be a simple solution that I've missed.
 
 body {
font: small Trebuchet MS, sans-serif;
color: #66;
 }
 
 The error:
 
 
  URI : http://design.quagma.net/themes/quagma/style.css
 
* Line: 0 Context : sans-serif
 
  Parse Error - : Trebuchet MS
 
* Line: 0 Context : sans-serif
 
  Parse Error - sans-serif;
 
* Line: 0 Context : sans-serif
 
  Parse error - Unrecognized : { }
 
 
 The site:
 http://design.quagma.net
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Re: [WSG] css validation error

2004-09-20 Thread Kevin Futter
It appears from another post that I am wrong! Oh well ...

Kevin Futter

On 21/9/04 8:56 AM, Kevin Futter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 My understanding was that there shouldn't be a comma in the shorthand font
 selector after Trebuchet MS (but I could be wrong ...).
 
 Cheers,
 Kevin Futter
 
 On 20/9/04 4:26 PM, John Oxton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Maybe you could try not using the font shorthand to get it to validate,
 try it as font-family etc. Could it be that there is something missing
 from that rule? Certainly one I have had problem with before.
 
 Cameron Muir wrote:
 Thanks for pointing that out John - serves me right for not cleaning out
 disused styles.
 
 However, I'm still getting the same error.
 
 
 John Oxton wrote:
 
 Hi Cameron,
 You have this
 
 .paymate {
 position: relative:
 top: 20px;
 right: 10px;
 }
 
 the position:relative needs a semi colon and you should be on your way
 
 Regards,
 John,
 
 Cameron Muir wrote:
 
 Hello,
 
 I can't work out why this is producing an error. I'm sure there must
 be a simple solution that I've missed.
 
 body {
font: small Trebuchet MS, sans-serif;
color: #66;
 }
 
 The error:
 
 
  URI : http://design.quagma.net/themes/quagma/style.css
 
* Line: 0 Context : sans-serif
 
  Parse Error - : Trebuchet MS
 
* Line: 0 Context : sans-serif
 
  Parse Error - sans-serif;
 
* Line: 0 Context : sans-serif
 
  Parse error - Unrecognized : { }
 
 
 The site:
 http://design.quagma.net
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Re: [WSG] question about iframe accessibility

2004-09-20 Thread Kevin Futter
Ted - the content between the iframe tags doesn't need to be hidden or
commented out; in browsers that support iframes, it's automatically replaced
by the content specified in the source attribute, otherwise it's shown.
Think of it a little bit like the noframes or noscript tags in old school
HTML, where people usually just put something like Sorry, your browser
doesn't support iframes 

Cheers,
Kevin

On 21/9/04 10:26 AM, Ted Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Here's what I figured out.
 When you have a frame, you need to specify what the content is.  You could do
 this with a title tag or even better, distinct text in the body of the frame.
 for instance, you would say, this is the navigation frame.
 
 I did both.  I put a title attribute on the iframe saying title=dynamic
 calendar and in the body of the iframe I added
 span class=hiddenDynamic Calendar for form fields/span.
 
 This satisfied the requirements and we are now 508 compliant and wai level 1
 happy.
 
 
 \/   \/   \/\/\/\/\/\/\/   \/
 To satisfy level 2 I have a problem with a series of input fields.  For
 multiple travelers, we have 10 boxes for ages.  I have a label associated with
 the first age and then alt tags on the following inputs.  Should I wrap all
 ten inputs in the lable tag as I've seen elsewhere?  I'd rather not create a
 label for each ten boxes.   What do you think?
 
 Ted
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Ted Drake 
 Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 5:05 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [WSG] question about iframe accessibility
 
 
 We are using a popup calendar for forms on our site and it uses an iframe for
 the calendar.
 I'm getting this message from the developers toolbar 508 checker
 
 Rule: 1.1.6 - All IFRAME elements are required to contain element content.
 
 * Failure - IFRAME Element at Line: 362, Column: 1
 
 I'm not very familiar with iframes.  What do you think it is asking for?
 
 Here's a reference page
 http://v4.csatravelprotection.com/csa/twelcome.do
 
 and the appropriate code:
 iframe width=132 height=142 name=gToday:contrast:agenda.js
 id=gToday:contrast:agenda.js src=../js/cal/ipopeng.htm scrolling=no
 frameborder=0 style=visibility:visible; z-index:999; position:absolute;
 left:-500px; top:0px; 
 /iframe
 
 There is a javascript that populates this iframe.  Do you think the validation
 engine would be happy with a simple comment tag inside the iframe before the
 javascript populates it?  I'll try for the heck of it.  Any other ideas?
 
 Ted

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Re: [WSG] Tidy extension for Firefox

2004-09-20 Thread Kevin Futter
Hi James,

I can't find this anywhere on the Extensions site - can you point to it
specifically? Is it OS or version specific?

Cheers,
Kevin

On 21/9/04 11:10 AM, James Ellis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi all
 
 Just a heads up for all of you trying to move to standards compliant,
 accessible code - there's a new extension at Mozilla update called HTML
 validator with Tidy. This gets triggered when you view the source of a
 page in Firefox, reporting errors and there is an option to Tidy your
 page using the inbuilt Tidy library (tidy.sourceforge.net).
 
 The options for the extension also have Accessibility warnings, sourced
 from the W3C WAI @ http://w3c.org/TR/WCAG10/full-checklist.html
 
 Go forth, accessify and tidy! There's no excuse now... :D
 
 Cheers
 James
 
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Re: [WSG] Tidy extension for Firefox

2004-09-20 Thread Kevin Futter
Actually, I've just found, downloaded/installed and tested it, and it's
running fine on Mac OS X (10.3.5).

Cheers,
Kevin Futter

On 21/9/04 11:59 AM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Kevin Futter wrote:
  Is it OS or version specific?
 It's windows only.
 http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?id=249vid=716page=releases
 
 Patrick
 _
 re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
 [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
 www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
 http://redux.deviantart.com
 
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Re: [WSG] Tidy extension for Firefox - correction!

2004-09-20 Thread Kevin Futter
Well, that's twice today already that I've spoken too soon! This extension
pops the interface up as expected but doesn't actually show anything in the
Errors and Warnings window, so I'd say it doesn't work on Mac OS after all
...

Cheers,
Kevin (red-faced)

On 21/9/04 12:18 PM, Kevin Futter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Actually, I've just found, downloaded/installed and tested it, and it's
 running fine on Mac OS X (10.3.5).
 
 Cheers,
 Kevin Futter
 
 On 21/9/04 11:59 AM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Kevin Futter wrote:
  Is it OS or version specific?
 It's windows only.
 
http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?id=249vid=716page=release
s
 
 Patrick
 _
 re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
 [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
 www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
 http://redux.deviantart.com
 
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