ADMIN Re: [WSG] AOL mail problems?

2012-06-15 Thread Lea de Groot

On 16/06/12 9:35 AM, Chris Pearce wrote:

I'm sorry but how is this related to Web Standards?


Its not relevant to web standards, but when the list is quiet (as the 
word echoes around the room) its harmless to have a little technical 
off-topic chatter.

(but only a little)

Lea
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Re: [WSG] Market share of smartphones in Australia

2012-06-04 Thread Lea de Groot

Well, I've dropped a csv file here:
http://vikings.homeip.net/temp/Analytics-Devices-20120504-20120603.csv
It shows mobile visit data over the last month from 2 (thus the 2 
columns) moderate-volume sites that are visited by typical 'mum and dad' 
users.

(Data from Google Analytics)
Man those Apple device are popular!

Hope it helps.

Lea
--
Lea de Groot
Brisbane, .au

On 4/06/12 1:39 PM, Grant Bailey wrote:

Would someone be able to provide me with recent information about the
market share of the different smartphones in Australia. I have not been
able to find much using Google since such data is usually
subscription-only.



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Re: [WSG] Accessibility changer

2012-04-25 Thread Lea de Groot

On 25/04/12 4:52 PM, steve paultan wrote:

What is?  Could you explain it more clearly? Thanks,


I found this vid from Google which gives a demo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=9c6W4CCU9M4

Of course, the parodies are already out there:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=t3TAOYXT840
:)

Lea
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Lea de Groot
Brisbane, .au


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[ADMIN Thread closed Re: [WSG] I am currently out of the office Re: WSG Digest

2012-04-05 Thread Lea de Groot

Handled off list

Lea

On 5/04/12 3:27 PM, Terence Zweni Express wrote:

Could you please unsubscribe us
-Original Message-
From: Rebecca Rodgersrebe...@steptwo.com.au
Sender: lists@webstandardsgroup.orgDate: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 22:06:24
To:wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Reply-to: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] I am currently out of the office Re: WSG Digest

I am currently out of the office on annual leave and will return on
Tuesday, 10 April.  If you have an urgent query, please call my
mobile, 0413 602 697.

Otherwise, I will respond to your email on my return.

Kind regards
Rebecca


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[ADMIN] Thread closed Re: [WSG] Keyboard Tabbing no longer working in FF v11/Mac

2012-04-04 Thread Lea de Groot

User deleted - sorry so many got through!

Lea

On 4/04/12 7:09 PM, sale.jordantradezone wrote:

Dear friend ,



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Re: [WSG] The mailto link

2012-01-03 Thread Lea de Groot

On 4/01/12 6:51 AM, Chris Price wrote:

I've been discussing the mailto link with other designers on LinkedIn
and wonder what the opinions of other standards based designers are.


I suspect this topic will open another kettle of fish, but - oh, well, 
things are always quiet in the new year :)


I always offer a contact form, because people aren't always on a 
computer where they have access to their mail client.


In addition, I always offer the option of 'click an email address' to 
send an email from the email client, in case thats what they prefer.


Do both - no loss. :)

Lea
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Elysian Systems
Brisbane, .au


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Re: [WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites

2011-12-28 Thread Lea de Groot

On 28/12/11 7:39 PM, coder wrote:

So, why do
some folk think that's OK, but if you are using a browser it's awful?


I think it comes down to predictability.
The various programs mentioned open new windows in a predictable pattern 
- one knows when a new window will open.
Websites open windows not only unpredictably (ignoring the small status 
bar message which I note, but I'm sure Jo(e) Public doesn't) but 
somewhat invisibly - it isn't always obvious if you blink at the wrong 
moment that a new window opened, it just looks like the back button 
stopped working...


IMHO

Lea
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Elysian Systems
Brisbane, .au


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[ADMIN] Re: [WSG] major web site project

2011-08-10 Thread Lea de Groot
This member has been removed from the mailing list for inappropriate 
language.


Lea
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WSG Core Member

On 11/08/11 12:30 PM, garment4u...@gmail.com wrote:
snip


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Re: [ADMIN] Re: [WSG] [THREAD CLOSED] inappropriate behaviour

2011-08-10 Thread Lea de Groot

Obviously that sort of behaviour is inappropriate!
But, we'll close the unacceptable part of the thread, while leaving open 
Marvin's website project thread.


~ back on topic, people :)

Lea
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[ADMIN] THREAD CLOSED Re: [WSG] is this infection of Safari or FB page?

2011-03-16 Thread Lea de Groot
We're offtopic here and I don't think putting the question of 'are these 
links dangerous?' is anything this group is qualified to discuss.

(OK, maybe *you* are, but its certainly outside the group remit.)
Closed.
(Thanks for the prompt, Joseph)

Lea
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[ADMIN] Thread Closed Re: [WSG] RE: WSG Digest [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

2011-02-10 Thread Lea de Groot
I've unsubscribed Ms Fleming - please don't respond to this thread any 
further.


Yes, all reasonable people can unsubscribe all by themselves by visiting:
http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm

When you respond to a digest post, PLEASE trim down to just the part you 
are responding to


warmly,
Lea

On 11/02/11 4:17 PM, Henry Mencia wrote:

Hello C Fleming,

If you want to be removed go here Unsubscribe:
http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm

Cheers,





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Re: [WSG] spam in the site...

2010-12-12 Thread Lea de Groot

On 13/12/10 9:51 AM, Andrew Harris wrote:

A query about the http://webstandardsgroup.org/ site.


Yikes! Well spotted!
I've temporarily unpublished the page while we figure out what the 
problem is.

(Sorry everyone - you don't get to see the spam when you click through!)
Thanks for letting us know
Ah, the joys of volunteer run websites :(

warmly,
Lea
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[ADMIN] Thread closed Re: [WSG] greetings

2010-08-10 Thread Lea de Groot

I don't think we are adding any value to the world by going on about this.

Lea
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[ADMIN] Thread Closed Re: [WSG] Fw: Fwd: Fw: Read Alone - very special! - (i like the poem not the bits before it)

2010-07-22 Thread Lea de Groot

I've sent a message to Robert asking him to check his machine for viruses.
I don't think we need to discuss this any further.
I haven't opened the attachment, and I suggest that no one else does 
either :(


warmly,
Lea
--
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WSG Core Member

On 23/07/10 7:01 AM, Robert Dixon wrote:


*From:* Christopher Simon mailto:chrissan...@sky.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 21, 2010 10:28 PM
*Subject:* Fwd: Fw: Read Alone - very special! - (i like the poem not
the bits before it)









- Original Message - Subject: Fw: Read Alone - very special!
- (i like the poem not the bits before it)





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Re: [WSG] IE6 Finally Nearing Extinction [STATS]

2010-06-11 Thread Lea de Groot

On 11/06/10 9:32 PM, Foskett, Mike wrote:

I just took a peek at our own stats for May 2010.

A very large set limited to UK online shoppers only.

And I couldn't agree less with the article.


I have a couple of large .au 'mum and dad' sites (ie, not techie) and I 
have similar results to your .uk figures:


Internet Explorer   67.11%  
Firefox 17.19%  
Safari  9.70%   
Chrome  4.67%   

with specific IE figures of
IE8.0   59.08%  
IE7.0   28.46%  
IE6.0   12.44%  

ie IE 6 is at 8.3% overall - lower than your numbers, but still worth 
testing for.


Interestingly, I have iphone/ipod numbers at 2.77% and rising fast - I 
guess I better get those mobile versions up!


Lea
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Lea de Groot
Elysian Systems
Brisbane, .au


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Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?

2010-06-04 Thread Lea de Groot

On 4/06/10 2:41 PM, nedlud wrote:

The full questions in the form is Do you require an interpreter?
This is followed by: If so, what language?



Personally, I would try this structure:

Do you require a translator?
o No
o Yes
   [] Greek | {I require a Greek Translator  written in greek}
   [] Russian | { I require a Russian Translator written in Russian}
   [] etc
   [] Other [__ ]

and so on, obviously using the languages appropriate to your population 
segment.


I wouldn't do anything clever with making the language part appear and 
disappear when they select yes/no, as seeing the name of their language 
in the form can help prompt them to check it.


Hope it helps

Lea
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Lea de Groot
Elysian Systems
Brisbane, .au


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[ADMIN] Thread closed Re: [WSG] Birthday Calendar

2010-05-04 Thread Lea de Groot

Yes, I know.
I've spoken to Sivaramakrishnan and I don't think we need to discuss it 
further, do we?


warmly,
Lea
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WSG Core Group


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[ADMIN] THREAD CLOSED - OFF TOPIC Re: [WSG] G'day from Copenhagen!

2009-12-07 Thread Lea de Groot




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[ADMIN] OFF TOPIC - CLOSED Items for Sale Re: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs

2009-12-06 Thread Lea de Groot
im having a out of business sale , my partner ship finish and im going 
on my own but we ened to sell the equipment.


THIS THREAD IS CLOSED - WSG IS NOT A CLASSIFIEDS FORUM.
(The original thread, about breaks etc is still open)

Lea


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[ADMIN] THREAD COSED Re: [WSG] Looking for Images

2009-11-02 Thread Lea de Groot

This thread is closed as off topic for this list.
Should you wish to help the OP, please reply off list.

warmly,
Lea


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[ADMIN] THREAD CLOSED Re: [WSG] Re: International SMS Provider

2009-10-26 Thread Lea de Groot

This thread is off topic for this list and is closed.

Should you wish to help the OP, please reply off list.

warmly,
Lea
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WSG Core Member



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[ADMIN] Thread closed Re: [WSG] Auction Auto Bidder

2009-09-15 Thread Lea de Groot
Mister Shamveel won't be bothering us anymore :) (so we don't need to  
discuss this further)


Lea
--
Lea de Groot
WSG Core Member

On 15/09/2009, at 2:46 PM, Mohamed Shamveel wrote:
Some stuff we don't need to see


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[ADMIN] THREAD CLOSED Re: [WSG] E Power Lanka Web Site

2009-08-27 Thread Lea de Groot
I don't know what the point of the post was - probably spam - but best  
just to ignore it.

If the offender repeats we'll be unsubscribing him or her
(We'll assume it was a missend at this point)

warmly,
Lea
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WSG Core Member


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[ADMIN] Thread Closed Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest

2009-08-03 Thread Lea de Groot

OK, I've unsubscribed both parties.
Thread closed, party over :-P

Lea
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ADMIN: THREAD CLOSED Re: [WSG] using images for my website and accessibility

2009-07-14 Thread Lea de Groot

This thread is closed.
I'm afraid 'how can I license these images?' isn't a matter for web  
standards discussion.

Please feel free to answer Marvin offlist.

People - please try to stick to on topic posts!

warmly,
Lea
--
Lea de Groot
WSG Core Member

On 14/07/2009, at 3:42 PM, Marvin Hunkin wrote:


hi.
tried looking for these images for a web project.
and needs the url, so i can contact the owner to get permission to  
use these

images.
will paste the names below.
tried looking on google, altavista, yahoo, etc.
but no luck.
cheers Marvin.
ps:have these images on my hard disk, but need to get permission to  
use

these.

the images i am looking for are:

banana.jpg
cherry.jpg
image002.gifimage002.gif
img_0537.jpg
logo_01.gif
mango.png
Mushrooms.jpg
pineapple.jpg
rockmelon_large.jpg

E-Mail: startrekc...@gmail.com
Msn: startrekc...@msn.com
Skype: startrekcafe
Visit my Jaws Australia Group at http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/ 
JawsOz/





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Re: [WSG] SEO vs. Accessibility

2009-05-26 Thread Lea de Groot


On 27/05/2009, at 2:26 AM, Spellacy, Michael wrote:


It was recently brought to my attention that a few elements I
have placed on a site that have text indented px to the left for
accessibility might be viewed as a form of cloaking by some search
engines. Is my colleague correct in this assessment? If so, is there a
middle ground that can be met to make search engines and visually
impaired folks happy?


Yes, it is an issue, and at times people will jump on it.
It really comes down to how much you've done, and what it looks like.
Its the sort of thing that will be picked up in a manual review, and  
they aren't that common.
I tend to use a class name like class=accessabilityonly for these  
fields, in the hopes of giving a reviewer at least a clue as to what I  
am doing, but it isn't a well defined field.
The litmus test is: if you took them out., would you be more worried  
about the search engines not seeing your text, or the accessability  
implications...


hope it helps :)

Lea
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Elysian Systems
Brisbane, .au






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[ADMIN] Thread closed Re: [WSG] SEO - how to upgrade my skills?

2009-05-11 Thread Lea de Groot

and... we do need to close this thread.
'how do I get better SEO skills', while dear to my heart, *is* off  
topic.


If you'd like to help Mike out, please feel free to reply offlist

warmly,
Lea
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Re: [WSG] Time For a Table?

2009-05-07 Thread Lea de Groot


On 08/05/2009, at 3:27 AM, CK wrote:

Would this group of link listhttp://archive.bushidodeep.com/theme_test/links.html 
 be better served inside a table with headers?


No.
To figure out 'is this a table?' look *across* the columns. Do you  
need to match up particular cells in each row?

If so, its a table.
If not, it probably isn't.

So, in your layout there's no relationship between, for example,  
'Heartfelt Writers' and 'Request OOP Code', so - no table layout.


Hope it helps.

Lea
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Elysian Systems
Brisbane, .au






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[ADMIN] THREAD CLOSED Re: [WSG] Login/password app?

2009-04-29 Thread Lea de Groot

This thread is closed, as it is not on topic.
Please only post discussions, questions, etc, based on  standards to  
the list.


Should you wish to answer Brooke, please do so offlist.

Lea
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WSG Admin Member


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Re: [WSG] Exemples to use microformats?

2009-02-23 Thread Lea de Groot

On 23/02/2009, at 5:19 PM, Ronaldo Bitencourt - Webmaster wrote:

I am looking for example to use microformtas, something relatively  
new here

in brazil, someone can help me with some links?


http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-examples-in-wild

Lea
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Lea de Groot
Elysian Systems
Brisbane, .au






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Re: [WSG] css Help Please

2009-01-12 Thread Lea de Groot

On 12/01/2009, at 11:37 AM, Marvin Hunkin wrote:


Sorry! We found the following errors (3)
URI : file://localhost/C:\DOCS\MarvinsWebsite\styles.css
6 div header  Lexical error at line 5, column 2. Encountered:  
i (105),

after :  id=Borg; width: 400px; margin: 1% auto; }



OK, you haven't quite picked up how CSS works.
I haven't seen your actual markup (the contents of the 'view source'  
of your page) but it looks like you have something like this:


div id=Borg; width: 400px; margin: 1% auto;
...
/div

where you want to have:
div id=Borg
...
/div

and in your .css file (or inside your style type=text/css ... / 
style element) put:

#Borg {
  width: 400px;
  margin: 1% auto;
}

if you want to have a 'Borg' type block appear more than once, you  
should use a 'class' rather than an 'id' - an 'id' should only appear  
once on the page while a 'class' is for repeating blocks.

This would give markup like this:
div class=Borg
...
/div

and the class would be referenced in the CSS with 'dot' notation:
.Borg {
  width: 400px;
  margin: 1% auto;
}

Hope it helps

Lea
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Elysian Systems
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ADMIN: THREAD CLOSED Re: [WSG] Fw: The Great Firewall of Australia

2008-11-30 Thread Lea de Groot
Its been a good read, but I think we've said everything we need to  
say, and I can't think of any excuse to make it on-topic.

Thread closed.

So - Aussies, make sure you make your opinion known to the appropriate  
people.
Rest of the world - please try not to snicker, point and laugh at us  
too much :(


Lea
~ but the implementation is non standard! Umm, no, still off topic ;)
--
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WSG Core Member


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THREAD CLOSED (well, the off topic part) Re: [WSG] Web governance

2008-11-23 Thread Lea de Groot

On topic? no way!
Tony is no longer with us. Bye bye Tony! Don't let the door hit you on  
the way out!


But - please continue discussion of the 'web governance' topic.
'How to move to Web Standards' is certainly on topic :)
What do you think of the issues Andrew is facing?
What have you done in similar situations?

Lea
--
Lea de Groot
WSG Core Member


On 24/11/2008, at 3:58 PM, Tony Paterson wrote:


Ladies and Gents
I am seeking JV partners for some of our company's websites
If you have any interest please call or email me
Cheers




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Re: [ADMIN] THREAD CLOSED AGAIN [WSG] Who are the Away on leave Notices from? THREAD CLOSED, THREAD CLOSED, THREAD CLOSED!

2008-11-06 Thread Lea de Groot
Really guys - you aren't adding any value to a list with thousands of  
members that is supposed to be conversations about Web Standards.

Yes, you're very amusing.
Amuse your friends off list
You're currently in violation of the terms of the list. The normal  
penalty is un-subscription. I'm hoping the thread will go quiet now  
and my finger won't have to hit that button.


Lea
--
Lea de Groot
WSG Core Member


On 07/11/2008, at 9:51 AM, Brett Patterson wrote:


And I'll bring the empty belly.

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Andrew Boyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


And I'll bring the beer! :)

Sent from my iPhone.




On 06/11/2008, at 8:53 PM, 8bits Media [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

Russ,


Will you be bringing a cake?

Nick.

On 6 Nov 2008, at 21:44, russ - maxdesign wrote:




If there are any more posts to this thread I will have to come to  
your

houses, one at a time...






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Re: [ADMIN] Thread closed - unsubscribe request [WSG]

2008-11-04 Thread Lea de Groot

This thread is closed.
Please don't reply any further to this unsubscribe request.

If you need to discuss it, the address to use is at the bottom of the  
message.


Lea
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Re: [WSG] Marking up company logo

2008-05-28 Thread Lea de Groot
On Wed, 28 May 2008 17:49:21 +1000, Chris Pearce wrote:
 For a few years now I’ve been marking up a clients company logo as a 
 h1. I just wanted to get an idea of how many people actually do 
 this compared to using a html image tag? I believe a h1 is more 
 semantically correct however I’d be interested in seeing what other 
 people on this list think.

There are many discussions of this one around. Here's one:
http://www.andybudd.com/archives/2004/03/quick_quiz_h1s_and_logos/
There are lots more :)

My take is that I will put the logo in the h1 element when the logo is 
the most important thing on the page (most important isn't quite what 
I mean, but its as close as I am getting at 6PM :))
This is usually the homepage.
So other pages don't get a h1 for the logo, the title of that page gets 
the h1 instead.

I usually end up with markup like this:
div id=mast
XX id=logoimg/XX
pPossibly other stuff too/p
/div

Where XX is ether H1 or div depending on the page.
This lets me write a set of rules like:
#mast { ... }
#mast #logo { ... }
so all pages are the same, whether the logo has the h1 or not

Hope it helps

warmly,
Lea
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Elysian Systems
Brisbane, Australia

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[WSG] Spolsky on IE8 flag

2008-03-17 Thread Lea de Groot
Joel Spolsky has published an ... interesting article
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/03/17.html

I wonder if Microsoft considered the approach of IE 7 is the last 
version of IE. Our new product will be $NEW_PRODUCT_NAME[1]. All old 
hacks for IE are irrelevent - we're starting afresh, people!
Sounds like its worth considering :)
After all, when I browse the web with Safari or Firefox I literally 
never see a broken page, because nothing assumes I am using some 
version of IE.
M2CW :)

warmly,
Lea
[1] I like Internet Avenger for I am a romantic. Who can think of a 
better name? :)
-- 
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Re: [WSG] IE8 news - stats

2008-03-09 Thread Lea de Groot
Well, if you'd like some stats from a .au site with very much 
non-technical, typically Australian-sourced traffic:

1.  Internet Explorer / Windows 44,549  80.32%  

1.  7.0 23,965  53.77%  
2.  6.0 20,507  46.01%  
3.  5.5 47  0.11%   
4.  5.0117  0.04%   
5.  5.0 16  0.04%   
6.  5.2311  0.02%   
7.  4.5 3   0.01%   
8.  4.0120.00% 
9.  5.2220.00% 
10. 4.0 10.00%

2.  Firefox / Windows   6,581   11.86%  
3.  Safari / Macintosh  2,352   4.24%   
4.  Firefox / Macintosh 828 1.49%   
5.  Mozilla / Linux 623 1.12%   
6.  Opera / Windows 150 0.27%   
7.  Firefox / Linux 121 0.22%   
8.  Mozilla / Windows   48  0.09%   
9.  Konqueror / Linux   37  0.07%   
10. Internet Explorer / Macintosh   24  0.04%

So, 80% Windows IE, split between 7  6 - I too expect to see most of 
the IE7 users migrate to an IE8 Gold release quite quickly, but that 
IE6 will hang around for much longer.

warmly,
Lea
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Elysian Systems
Brisbane, Australia


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Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction and myths

2008-03-09 Thread Lea de Groot
On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 16:11:53 -0800, tee wrote:
 Anybody knows about this? The robots text is good for search robots, 
 but I read from somewhere, that robots text no longer is needed when 
 Google Sitemap is implemented for the site. 

For Google bots, there are some elements of Google Sitemaps that 
interact with the robots.txt file.
No other bots have access to Google Sitemaps info.
You still want a robot.txt file even if you are using Google Sitemaps

 I didn't know robots text 
 was important for accessibility, however I learned from the 
 accessites team that it is.

Umm... no - you (or someone) has mixed up robots.txt with something 
else (not sure what!)
robots.txt is generally used to tell bots where they can't go.
People who benefit from high accessability in a site are not bots! :)

I can't think of *any* overlap between accessability and robots.txt
True statement: 'if it is accessible then a bot will be able to crawl 
it well' (a general rule, anyway)
False statement: 'if you block a bot with robots.txt then the site is 
not accessible'

IMHO

warmly,
Lea
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Elysian Systems
Brisbane, Australia


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[ADMIN: THREAD CAUTION] Re: [WSG] Electronic forms building software

2008-02-05 Thread Lea de Groot
On Tue, 5 Feb 2008 14:53:22 +1100, Jessica Enders wrote:
 I was wondering what WYSIWYG electronic (web and other) forms 
 building software would you recommend or avoid? I'm interested in 
 experience with Form Assembly, in particular.
 
 The sorts of things I'm interested in feedback on include Wufoo, 
 Icebrrg, SurveyMonkey, Zoomerang, QuestionPro, Vovici, FormSite, 
 ColdFusion, InfoPath, Adobe LiveCycle and SnapForm.

Hi guys,

I don't think this is an on on-topic thread, but feel free to reply - 
if you can keep it to a discussion of standards.
Any off topic responses should go directly to Jessica.

warmly,
Lea
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[ADMIN] THREAD CLOSED Re: [WSG] APHP counter script

2008-01-29 Thread Lea de Groot
On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:49:40 -0800, Hayden's Harness Attachment wrote:
 The nonprofit I run a web site for again wants a counter. I did work 
 on putting together a PHP counter and came up with the following.

We are off topic here.
If anyone would like to comment, plase reply to Angus directly :)

warmly,
Lea
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Re: [WSG] Where did I come from?

2008-01-21 Thread Lea de Groot
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:58:52 +1100, Sarah Peeke wrote:
 So, if the HTTP headers are changed along the response chain from 
 server to client what is the likely outcome? Where would the user be 
 directed in this case?

HTML doesn't care.
Its possible to write server-side code that generates different markup 
based on the referer, or even js code the same, but HTML on its own 
doesn't read the referer to care what it says or doesn't say and will 
display the same.

warmly,
Lea
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ADMIN THREAD CLOSED Re: [WSG] Joomla question

2008-01-07 Thread Lea de Groot
Sorry, Jos, this is off topic for this list.
Everyone, if you have a response for Jos please send it off list.
Jos, you might want to search for Joomla forums :)

Lea
-- 
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WSG Core Member

On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 17:12:33 +0700, Jos Flachs wrote:
 I'm familiarising myself with Joomla. The basics, I understand and can
 manage. What I find very difficult to understand is how sections,
 categories and modules work and interact. Also the various template
 layouts. I mean, the blog format, etc. (Not the actual html layout
 itself.)


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[EVEN MORE ADMINISH] thread closed Re: [WSG] [ADMIN] MIND YOUR OOO MESSAGE!

2007-12-21 Thread Lea de Groot
Hi guys!

If you have strong feelings about this, we welcome your email at the 
address down the bottom of this message :waits while you scroll down 
then back up:
However, we like to keep meta discussions off the list - 98% of the 
members don't want to hear it.

So, thread closed.

warmly,
Lea
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[WSG] [ADMIN] MIND YOUR OOO MESSAGE!

2007-12-20 Thread Lea de Groot
Hello everyone!

Its that time of year again - time for me to bang my head on the table 
again!
No, really. I do.
Presently, the large majority of us get a few days off, and, 
responsibly, we will make sure that people who try to talk to us know 
we aren't ignoring them, we've just got our feet up with a nice cold 
one.
Sensibly, we leave an Out Of Office message for our colleagues and 
clients.
But its important not to ruin that professional appearance by doing it 
improperly.
The memberships of all your mailing lists generally don't need to know 
that you are away (and its not just because some of us work through and 
are jeaous - honest!! ;))

SO! Make sure you set your Out Of Office message so it doesn't reply to 
your mailing lists.
It takes a little more effort, but it stops us thinking you're a dork.
And you aren't one.
(Are you?)

Merry Seasonally Appropriate Greetings!
(Santa is bringing me a 30 monitor. Hehehe. God Santa. But there 
better be chocolate in there too! :))

Lea
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Re: [WSG] Preventing copying of text from web page.

2007-12-20 Thread Lea de Groot
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:48:17 +, Nick Roper wrote:
 Is this possible to achieve in a way that is standards-compliant - or 
 indeed in any way at all? One suggestion has been to apply a 
 transparent image over the results table - but not sure if this could 
 be done with CSS etc?

You can make it *harder* to do things like this, but you can't 
completely stop determined and skilled people.
If nothing else, they can always take a screen dump of the window and 
drop the image somewhere else.

Lots of techniques can be used - the invisible image layer over is one.
Writing the page with gobbledygook javascript is another.

A strong but polite copyright message will work for some percentage of 
people.

But all of them will only slow people down - once you've published on 
the internet the content is out there  and it is impossible to 
completely prevent reuse.

warmly,
Lea
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Elysian Systems
Brisbane, Australia


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ADMIN [THREAD CAUTION] Re: [WSG] Opera files antitrust against MS: standards one part

2007-12-16 Thread Lea de Groot
Guys,

While the thread is interesting, do try to keep it on the topic of *web 
standards*.
Some of the points which are either off topic or verging there include:
- is Microsoft the boogey man?
- should the government implement standards.

The thread is still open, and it will stay that way if *you* stay on 
toopic!
:)

warmly,
Lea
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Re: [WSG] Validation questions

2007-11-26 Thread Lea de Groot
Hey Taco!

This sounds like one of those 'its much easier if you show us the code' 
things :)
Write a stripped down version, if its Things You Must Not Show The 
Public ;)
(And often stripping it down will give that marvellous illumination 
that fixes the problem :))

 I have an error where it says document type does not allow element OL
 here
 The ol tag is within a formfieldset I don't understand, is this not
 allowed?

Could the OL be occurring within an inline element?
That would not validate.

 I have an error where it says end tag for element P which is not open.
 The p tag is actually within javascript, within the headscript
 I don't see how I can fix this error.

Move the '/p' into the js too.
Perhaps have 'openThingy' and 'closeThingy' functions?

warmly,
Lea
-- 
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Elysian Systems
Brisbane, Australia


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RE: [WSG] SIte Maps?

2007-11-21 Thread Lea de Groot
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:44:15 +, Chris Taylor wrote:
 But even for a relatively small site having a sitemap will help some 
 users find what they want quickly. Those people are the same ones who 
 will scan the index of a book before flicking through the pages.

Yes, its got to be total 'brochure ware' before I leave off the sitemap.
Its not just for the search engines - some people choose to navigate 
via the sitemap.
If there isn't a reason *not* to have a sitemap (and I can't think of 
one - way too small a budget to do anything extra at all?) then I would 
include one.

It may be the case that 'this site doesn't need a sitemap' but I can't 
think of reasoning 'this site will be damaged by a sitemap'

warmly,
Lea
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Elysian Systems
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RE: [WSG] SIte Maps?

2007-11-21 Thread Lea de Groot
On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 09:07:16 +0900, Jermayn Parker wrote:
 The way I personally do sitemaps (if i decide to do them) is use the
 google sitemaps tool and keep it as a xml document and just make sure
 that your navigation is easy enough so people can access the content
 without getting lost.

XML sitemaps and HTML sitemaps are completely different beasties - its 
unfortunate that they share a name, but we are not discussing the use 
of XML sitemaps in this thread.

 IMO if you create a sitemap so people can get to a location, the
 navigation obviously needs working on. Sitemap is just a bandaide to the
 bigger problem.

But some people prefer to have a quick squiz at the sitemap to see the 
totality of what the site contains.
People are all different. Your navigation can be fine, and their 
mindset just wants to look at things differently. 
Of course, if the logs showed a lot of navigation to the sitemap, I'd 
be examinging the navigation to see if it was adequate, but that 
doesn't change the observation that a minority of people want to see 
your sitemap to navigate through your site.

warmly,
Lea
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Elysian Systems
Brisbane, Australia


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ADMIN THREAD CLOSED Re: [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest

2007-08-16 Thread Lea de Groot
Guys, 

We have asked that meta discussion go directly to the admin group, 
rather than bogging down the list.

That said - while I agree with the sentiment, it is a software based 
problem.
At the moment we are receiving generous free service from webboy.
Webboy uses particular technologies and with a technolofgy choice there 
come limits.

Certainly, Yahoo may have it under control, but last time I looked we 
weren't seeing any ads on this list (sh! Peter isn't looking is he? 
;))

Sadly, its a case of you get what you pay for, and while we all get the 
list for free I don't really think it is productive to complain about 
its features or lack thereof.
There is, of course, now a forum-based alternative at 
http://forum.webstandardsgroup.org/ which should surely be free of OOO 
messages.

So! Back to our regular standards based discussion.
All discussion of this topic should go to the list admins - see the 
contact details below :)

Lea
-- 
Lea de Groot
WSG Core Group

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:44:26 -0700, Chris Williams wrote:
 My point is, there must be a software solution to this in the mailing 
 list software.  Yahoo must be filtering these messages, no?  Isn't 
 there a better mousetrap here, rather than expecting thousands of 
 members to remember to edit their settings right before they head out 
 on holiday?



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Re: [WSG] H1 font not set in IE

2007-07-17 Thread Lea de Groot
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 11:40:00 +0100, Nick Roper wrote:
 http://dev.logical.co.uk/castlewelding/final/gates_railings.php
 
 The font for the h1 should be Garamond - as it is for the menus at 
 the left. However it refuses to render in FF/Windows - although it is 
 fine on FF/Mac. The other weird thing is that FF/Windows renders 
 Garamond for the menus but not the h1.

Could it be a caching issue?
If you view the style sheet directly in the browser, does the H1 have 
the correct style?
If not, hard-refresh it and look again :)

warmly,
Lea
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Elysian Systems
Brisbane, Australia


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Re: [WSG] Re: Microformats was [ Is this a good use of dl ]

2007-07-07 Thread Lea de Groot
On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 18:57:27 +0100, Designer wrote:
 Perhaps I'm being dumb here, but I've looked at Microformats 
 (briefly) and I can't see the advantage over what any decent webby 
 would knock up on his own.  The hcard example makes every line a div 
 and just seems, frankly, daft.

Here's an example of where I have used hcard mf in a dl based structure:

dl class=vcard
dtNAME:/dt
dd class=fn orgUniversity Early Learning Centre/dd

dtADDRESS:/dt
dd class=adrspan class=street-addressUniversity Of Melbourne, 
Faculty of Educationbr40 Clarke St/spanbrspan 
class=localityAbbotsford/span span class=regionVIC/span 
span class=postal-code3067/span/dd

dtPHONE:/dt
dd class=telspan class=value(03) 9419 /span/dd
/dl

It was a bit hacked up and quickly done at the time, so I would pick 
holes in it now (note to self - review time), but hopefully you can see 
how to use hcard microformats in a dl-structure for addresses :)

warmly,
Lea
-- 
Lea de Groot
Elysian Systems
Brisbane, Australia
~ who must get off the computer and go get dressed to go to The Abbey 
Tournament. Ah, Sundays :)


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Re: [WSG] Robot meta tags

2007-07-03 Thread Lea de Groot
On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 17:45:26 -0500, Joyce Evans wrote:
 Is it important to include the following as part of the meta tags on 
 web pages?
  
 meta name=robots content=index,follow

No.
'index' and 'follow' are the default values for the robots meta - any 
robot will assume these values if there is no robots meta element on 
the page.
You only need to include them if you are resetting them to eg 'noindex' 
or 'nofollow', etc.

Of course, it isn't *wrong* to include them, just redundant.

warmly,
Lea
-- 
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Elysian Systems
Brisbane, Australia


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Re: [WSG] force download a media file

2007-06-13 Thread Lea de Groot
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:40:39 +0530, SJL wrote:
 I have this problem where i want to force download and mp3 and mp4 
 format file, but by default the browsers are handling it.
 I actually want the save as window to appear and give the choice to 
 the viewer. 

Zipping the file is the only way I know of to ensure a download.

warmly,
Lea
-- 
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Elysian Systems
Brisbane, Australia


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Re: [WSG] WCAG Samurai Errata

2007-06-08 Thread Lea de Groot
On Fri, 8 Jun 2007 15:22:36 +1000, Kane Tapping wrote:
 I have been reading with interest the WCAG Samurai Errata ( 
 http://wcagsamurai.org/errata/intro.html ) and am suprised to have not 
 found it discussed on WSG as of yet.

Thank you! I missed this announcement, somehow. What a refreshing read! 
:)

Points

- no noscript?
I still use it to add a submit button to dropdowns which are otherwise 
javascript driven - I thought I was doing a good thing! (Wah! :( )
Hmm.. its in the introduction, but not in the document. Thats not 
right, surely?

- Guideline 10
Do not add non-link, printable characters (surrounded by spaces or 
not) between adjacent links unless the semantics of the document 
naturally would include such characters.
Am I right in interpeting this as that we *don't* need to make sure 
there are extra characters between links! Wow! Cool! :)

:reads more:

warmly,
Lea
-- 
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Elysian Systems
Brisbane, Australia


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Re: [WSG] WCAG Samurai Errata

2007-06-08 Thread Lea de Groot
On Fri, 8 Jun 2007 07:27:46 +0100, Matthew Pennell wrote:
 Auto-submitting dropdowns are not usable by keyboard users.

More information, please? :)

warmly,
Lea
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Elysian Systems
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Re: [WSG] WCAG Samurai Errata

2007-06-08 Thread Lea de Groot
On Fri, 8 Jun 2007 16:49:00 +1000, Kane Tapping wrote:
 I took this one to mean that you should be writing your form in a 
 accessible and non-js way first then use JS to HIJAX (
 http://ajaxian.com/archives/hijax-graceful-degration) that version to 
 provide enhanced useability.This way you get a perfectly useable form 
 without JS and enhanced usability when it is enabled.

I have considered that, and there are very, very few places where I 
would use a noscript element - the 'select dropdown' is probably the 
only *common* implementation I do.
The only problem with the 'make it plain, then pretty it with JS' 
approach is the Redraw Problem.
The first thing to bear in mind is that for the majority of 
applications more than 95% of your visitors will be using a plain 
vanilla graphical browser.
While a web page/app must be accessiible, it must also service your 
majority audience *perfectly*.
Having elements pop in and out on a slow connection is very confusing 
for Joe Public, and if its a page or site that will take their money 
its important Not to make them feel in anyway insecure on what is 
happening.
Because of this, I've made a specific decision that, rather than having 
a: 
 select + button, then use JS to remove the button and add an onclick, 
I have: 
 select + noscripted-button, and use js to add an onclick 
(actually, I think its an onchange - I'd have to go look).
This gives an almost identical experience to non-js browsers and a 
perfect experience to Joe Public's vanilla browser, and avoids elements 
popping in and out on the screen.
If its below the fold it doesn't matter so much
If the element is very visible at the top of the page then its 
important.
It would probably be worthwhile to consider browsers that do js, but 
don't support onchange but I haven't looked into it - its a pretty old 
element.

IMHO

warmly,
Lea
-- 
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Elysian Systems
Brisbane, Australia


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ADMIN Re: [WSG] What does Semantic mean?

2007-06-06 Thread Lea de Groot
OK, people - enough fun and games. 
Lets try and keep the posts on topic and valuable, eh?
:)

warmly,
Lea
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Re: [WSG] Recommended screen size

2007-05-31 Thread Lea de Groot
On Thu, 31 May 2007 22:31:28 -0500, Tim Offenstein wrote:
 Anyone have a recommendation on what size screen to use as a baseline 
 when designing for a new site? 800x600 or 1024x768 or something else?

I do base designs for 1024, but I make sure the final implementation 
doesn't actually break at 800x, although I ignore it being a little 
crowded (I usually also check 600x, but I only fix really bad breakage)

warmly,
Lea
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Re: [WSG] dl v table for form layout

2007-05-30 Thread Lea de Groot
On Wed, 30 May 2007 23:16:11 +1000, John Faulds wrote:
 what if you have a form 
 control that's not really related to anything else? Do you put it in 
 a fieldset by itself? Then what do you do about the legend when in a 
 lot of cases it'll simply be duplicating what's in the label?
 
 For instance, a form which has contact details and a message text 
 area might be split into one fieldset for the contact details and 
 another for the message (I know it could probably be argued that it 
 could all go in one fieldset but let's say for argument's sake that 
 there's another fieldset in between requesting the user to select 
 from a series of checkboxes that needs to go in its own fieldset). 

Generally, I would leave the message text field out of a fieldset 
altogether.
So, I would have
+ fieldset of contact details
+ fieldset of checkboxes
+ textfield for message content
+ submit button
and I would wrap the textfield-plus-label in a div

IMHO
Lea
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ADMIN THREAD CLOSED Re: [WSG] Detecting Anti-Virus Software

2007-05-26 Thread Lea de Groot
This post is off topic and the thread is now closed.
If you would like to help Bas, please email him off list

warmly
Lea
-- 
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WSG Core Group

On Sat, 26 May 2007 16:35:04 +0800, Bas V wrote:
 Now my questions to you:
 a) Is there a way to detect which anti-virus software is used by a 
 site visitor so that I can create a auto-generated message for just 
 McAfee users that they do not need to worry about the false Trojan 
 warning?
 
 b) Do you have any suggestions for me as how otherwise to very 
 securely protect/encrypt source code?


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ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED Re: [WSG] Australian University webpage reviews and WANAU membership

2007-05-24 Thread Lea de Groot
On Fri, 25 May 2007 13:33:46 +1000, Nick Gleitzman wrote:
 Reply made offlist as debates of qualifications and recommended 
 medications are definitely OT.

Thank you Nick.
This thread is closed - it wasn't really on topic originally, although 
it showed some chance of morphing there.
Any discussion needs to be on topic.
If in doubt, please review:
http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
particularly What the list covers and does not cover
The link to that page is always at the bottom of every post.

warmly,
Lea
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ADMIN: THREAD CLOSED Re: [WSG] problem with 1 and 1 wordpress blog

2007-05-06 Thread Lea de Groot
As this thread currently stands, I can't see anything related to web 
standards.
If you would like to help Dwain, please send off list.
ThREAD CLOSED

warmly,
Lea
-- 
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WSG Core Group

On Sun, 06 May 2007 21:03:24 -0500, dwain wrote:
 i'm digging into the files and folders and figuring out where to place
 images and pages.  is it correct to transfer my current folders into the
 themes folder or do they go somewhere else?


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ADMIN Thread Closed Re: [WSG] Yahoo Groups

2007-04-26 Thread Lea de Groot
On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:38:51 +0930, Marvin Hunkin wrote:
 got a group called JawsOz at http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/JawsOz/

This threadd is off topic and closed - if you would like to discuss 
with Marvin please reply off list.

warmly,
Lea
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Re: [WSG] strong v's b , em v's i

2007-04-23 Thread Lea de Groot
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:55:57 +0800, Ca Phun Ung wrote:
 But on a serious note what could we do about resources like these 
 that publicize incorrect information and advocate bad practice? 

I can only think of 2 options:
1. send a message to the site oner asking them to correct them or take 
them down. You might want to offer to help with a rewrite
2. Beat them in the SERPs so fewer people find them ;)

warmly,
Lea
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Re: [WSG] What do we say if we don't say click?

2007-04-18 Thread Lea de Groot
On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 23:54:22 +1000, Raena Jackson Armitage wrote:
 Using something more direct, like View larger image or Send us a 
 message just flows better as written text.

Exactly how to approach this depends on your audience.
If your market is largely internet newbs, who aren't yet cofident with 
this mousey-thing they push around with their hand - gently walk them 
through it with 'click here to view a larger image'
If your market is seasoned web standards developers 'larger image' is 
probably sufficient. ;)
There is no one hard and fast rule - Know Thy Market!

warmly
Lea
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RE: [WSG] What do we say if we don't say click?

2007-04-18 Thread Lea de Groot
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:45:45 +1000, John Horner wrote:
 It's a nice idea, this know your market thing, and I'm sure it's
 appropriate in a commercial context, but our market is *everyone*. 

(The ABC, for the non-.au based, is the major government broadcasting 
arm)

Yes, it is, so you would be justified in 'dumbing it down' for the next 
decade, at least, IMHO.

But, for the majority of developers, there is a market that visits 
their website, and they should have a strong understanding of it.

warmly,
Lea
~ nice work in the Rural area, btw :)
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ADMIN: THREAD CLOSED Re: [WSG] Copyright some thought on the subject

2007-04-04 Thread Lea de Groot
On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 22:00:10 -0500, dwain wrote:
 The issue of copyright has been discussed on this list recently and in
 the past.  I come from a photographic background as an editorial
 photographer where the issue is under constant debate.

Thanks, Dwain, but a discussion of copyright is off topic for this list.
Please reply to Dwain off list, if interested, people :)

warmly,
Lea
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[WSG] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

2007-03-03 Thread Lea de Groot
Suzanne,

I've set you to nomail.
Please feel free to reset this once you return to your desk.
You might also consider rethinking your footer - its horribly spammie 
and you may well find your domain now has some spam reports against it, 
as this list has such a wide subscribership :(

warmly,
Lea
-- 
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WSG Core Member
BCC: Core

On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 06:56:20 -, Suzanne Malyon wrote:
 I am out of the office until Monday March 12th. Please call the 
 office on 0208 780 6350 if it's urgent.
 
 NEWS: BUSINESS MONITOR INTERNATIONAL LAUNCH 10 NEW SITES!  eShopworks 
 are pleased to announce the launch of 10 new sites for specialist 
 business information publisher Business Monitor International (BMI) - 
 all powered by a single WORKSsitebuilder implementation.  
 The new sites have been designed and built with customer conversion 
 as the key driver and feature market leading trial and subscription 
 management functionality. BMI are able to configure and report on 
 free and paid trials and create supporting emails for the 44 weekly 
 and monthly publications that the network of sites promote. Advanced 
 member management, access rules and blacklisting provide BMI with the 
 necessary tools to protect the high value of their published content.
 Visit http://www.latinamericamonitor.com to find out more.
 ---
 This email was obviously intended for the people named in the 
 message.  It may be confidential and/or legally privileged.  If you 
 have received it by mistake, please take no action based on it, copy 
 it, or show it to anyone - just delete it and let us know about the 
 error. Also, we should point out that any opinions expressed are not 
 necessarily those of eShopworks.
 Unfortunately email cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free 
 and thus this email should not be construed as a solicitation for, or 
 offer of contract. If verification is required please ask us for a 
 hard-copy.
 And finally, while we've scanned this email on 3/3/2007 to make sure 
 it is virus free to be on the safe side we recommend that you also 
 scan it with your own antivirus software. 
 ---
 
 
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Re: [WSG] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

2007-03-03 Thread Lea de Groot
Aw, crumbs!
You can all pretend I copied the address into the To: field, not the 
Subject: field, and it went where it was supoposed to, right?
:(

All pointing and laughing offlist, please.

Lea
~ wandering away mumbling...

On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 19:06:37 +1000, Lea de Groot wrote:
 Suzanne,
 
 I've set you to nomail.
 Please feel free to reset this once you return to your desk.
 You might also consider rethinking your footer - its horribly spammie 
 and you may well find your domain now has some spam reports against it, 
 as this list has such a wide subscribership :(
 
 warmly,
 Lea
 -- 
 Lea de Groot
 WSG Core Member
 BCC: Core
 
 On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 06:56:20 -, Suzanne Malyon wrote:
 I am out of the office until Monday March 12th. Please call the 
 office on 0208 780 6350 if it's urgent.
 
 NEWS: BUSINESS MONITOR INTERNATIONAL LAUNCH 10 NEW SITES!  eShopworks 
 are pleased to announce the launch of 10 new sites for specialist 
 business information publisher Business Monitor International (BMI) - 
 all powered by a single WORKSsitebuilder implementation.  
 The new sites have been designed and built with customer conversion 
 as the key driver and feature market leading trial and subscription 
 management functionality. BMI are able to configure and report on 
 free and paid trials and create supporting emails for the 44 weekly 
 and monthly publications that the network of sites promote. Advanced 
 member management, access rules and blacklisting provide BMI with the 
 necessary tools to protect the high value of their published content.
 Visit http://www.latinamericamonitor.com to find out more.
 ---
 This email was obviously intended for the people named in the 
 message.  It may be confidential and/or legally privileged.  If you 
 have received it by mistake, please take no action based on it, copy 
 it, or show it to anyone - just delete it and let us know about the 
 error. Also, we should point out that any opinions expressed are not 
 necessarily those of eShopworks.
 Unfortunately email cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free 
 and thus this email should not be construed as a solicitation for, or 
 offer of contract. If verification is required please ask us for a 
 hard-copy.
 And finally, while we've scanned this email on 3/3/2007 to make sure 
 it is virus free to be on the safe side we recommend that you also 
 scan it with your own antivirus software. 
 ---
 
 
 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ***
 
 
 ***
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Re: [WSG] It's times like this you remember how far you've come

2007-03-03 Thread Lea de Groot
On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 15:47:15 +1000, John Faulds wrote:
 Well just so you know Michael, you're not the only one who's had 
 dealings with some Brisbane web dev cowboys. :(

Now, now - don't slag the city for the actions of a few :-P

John, I realise you am just venting, but you should not be reworking 
someone else's markup on your own time.
You should be approaching your client and explaining that you have some 
problems with the markup thats been supplied to you and its going to 
take longer than you anticipated, because you had assumed that the 
other contractor would be supplying professional work.
No problem, but you'll need more $$ (or whatever the deal is for)

Be professional, but my favourite metaphor involves something about a 
model-T Ford and a modern Camry :)

warmly,
Lea
-- 
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Elysian Systems
*cough*Brisbane*cough*, Australia


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ADMIN: THREAD CLOSED Re: [WSG] Re: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org [ZONEALARM CHALLENGE]

2007-03-02 Thread Lea de Groot
Handled!
(and look! I didn't curse even once! ;))

Lea
-- 
Lea de Groot
Core Group Member

On 2 Mar 2007 21:13:18 -0800, RBaggs wrote:
 Subject: Re: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org [ZONEALARM CHALLENGE]
 to: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 X-Mlf-Communication-Key: abbb-dbcg-aaab-fbch-baeb-cbbj;disposition=internal
 Precedence: bulk
 Mime-Version: 1.0
 Content-type: multipart/related; boundary=__1172898796.1051.MlfMimeMail__
snip


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Re: [WSG] Forward-slash suppresses word wrap in Windows IE

2006-03-20 Thread Lea de Groot

Paul Novitski wrote:
In Windows IE, a forward-slash (virgule) that follows whitespace 
suppresses word wrap:

http://juniperwebcraft.com/demo/slashwrap.html


Probably a foolish suggestion - have you tried replacing the slash with 
a character entity?

#047; or sol;
seems to cover it.
Something to try?

warmly,
Lea
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Re: [WSG] Website Directory Structure - Best Practice

2006-03-19 Thread Lea de Groot

Herrod, Lisa wrote:

here's me showing my greeny status again... ;) What do they mean when they
mean when they say that.. :(


From
http://www.google.com/search?q=define:troll
a newsgroup post that is deliberately incorrect, intended to provoke 
readers; or a person who makes such a post 

Close enough.

I hope this thread won't devolve into a debate about trolling - we'd be 
totally off topic if so.


FTR, I agree with most of what Daniel says, except:
* the subdomain thing - although I havent experimented with it -
* the page-name.some-technology, in implimentation. I tend to end all my 
pages in html no matter what I am using server side because a) it says 
'webpage' and b) the technology for turning extensions off is flakey and 
I find putting a single page per directory inefficient in workflow - it 
has to work on both the developers and the users side!


warmly,
Lea
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Re: [WSG] Website Directory Structure - Best Practice

2006-03-19 Thread Lea de Groot

Lachlan Hunt wrote:
What's flaky about it?  Apache MultiViews is the easiest way to not 
require file extensions for static files, with the added advantage of 
making content negotiation extremely easy to do.


The implementation, I should have said :)
As you pointed out, IE doesn't cache properly.
I made a list of problems with it at one point, but I can't put my hand 
on it right now.

Not a long list, but enough that it isn't worth the effort.

5 chars doesnt worry me when it is so clearly a usability aid to say 
'web page' to the user constantly; to Joe Public who is savvy enough to 
look at the URI they are clicking on, but not techie enough to know 
everything that we know, a .html extension clearly implies 'Click here 
to see a web page about xxx - nothing tricky is going to happen, you 
will just get a simple page which won't do nasty things to your machine' 
and improve the probability of click.
Nothing true in that implication, of course, but that doesn't stop me 
from giving my users a simple clear message :)


IMHO

Lea
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Re: [WSG] Re: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org

2006-03-12 Thread Lea de Groot

sime wrote:
I used the following as the foundation of my current approach to style 
sheets.

http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/sample.html


If I am understanding it correctly, thats not meant for page 
developers/designers to base from, its meant for browser developers to 
start from.
You can expect that the default styles supplied by each browser will be 
something like these.
For a web developer to start with something like this would put an 
un-necessary large download on each page. (Yes, yes, I know - caching - 
but its still redundant)


However, I'm told that my code is therefore not XHTML compliant because 
of my use of uppercase. So who then is HTML4 relevant to?


I don't really understand the question.
As written, the css shown will work under HTML dtds (and XHTML 
transitional? I'm not sure as I never use it) but not XHTML strict DTDs.
To make it work correctly for XHTML strict, you should change each tag 
name to lowercase.

Its a trivial change.

HIH!
Lea
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Re: [WSG] o 0

2006-03-03 Thread Lea de Groot

On 04/03/2006, at 1:51 PM, Christian Montoya wrote:

If the concern is that the number 0 would be excused for the letter O
in a block of text, I can see the issue, but I'm certain that English
style manuals say that one digit numbers like 0 in sentences should be
spelled out.


My main bugbear with such issues is things like Captchas.
I appreciate it when the developer takes care to exclude o,0,1,I,l  
from the possible letters, as I am really bad at guessing which of  
these an example might be :(
In a sentence such as 'you have 0 items in your cart'. one is  
unlikely to mistake 0 for o.


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Brisbane, Australia



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[ADMIN] Re: [WSG] Your email requires verification verify#kdWfF4HBUy_SYGJC5A3KzB6MKspDh3nM

2006-03-02 Thread Lea de Groot

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why do I keep seeing emails asking to verify my email address, I hit 
reply and boom I see my reply come back to me via the list. I also 
wondered why I kept seeing so many others like this with different 
peoples names. Now I understand that they too are doing as requested and 
hitting reply, and then again it shows up in this emailed list.


Admin message:
Please do not reply to messages like this that you see come through your 
friendly neighbourhood mailing list.
Your response will not go back to the foolish sender who does not know 
how to operate the whitelist software they have installed, but instead 
will increase the annoyance factor of the rest of us by returning to the 
list.

Thats the way reply-munging mailing lists work.
Messages like this are sent via people with enough brains to click the 
button and subscribe to the mailing list, but not enough smarts to 
figure out how to add the mailing list they asked for to the whitelist 
software they chose to install.


If you must install these silly things can you please take the time to 
add the mailing lists you subscribe to yourself?
Rest assured that most of us are adding you to a blacklist for running 
such a beastie.


warmly,
Lea
~ why, yes, it has been an aggravating day! How did you guess? ;)
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ADMIN: Thread Closing Re: [WSG] Converting the heathen: never again

2006-02-27 Thread Lea de Groot


On 27/02/2006, at 7:23 PM, adam LEAPER wrote:

who was this whole msg about, sunny? or what, or he started it  
about some1 else


Thats ok - I don't think we need to name names.
mutters some legal mumbo jumbo

Going once, going twice...
If no one has anything good to add, I think we can close this one?

Lea
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Re: [WSG] Converting the heathen: never again

2006-02-26 Thread Lea de Groot


On 27/02/2006, at 1:16 PM, SunUp wrote:


I will now be a good little backyard hobbyist web-designer as they
called me (actually, it's my day job too), and never mention standards
again.


completely gobstopped
These guys are professional service providers?
If the tone of the message was as bad as it sounds I'd consider  
forwarding it to senior management there!


Lea
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Re: [WSG] Converting the heathen: never again

2006-02-26 Thread Lea de Groot


On 27/02/2006, at 4:08 PM, Ben Buchanan wrote:


Not to mention the fact that the people who implemented those
bohemoths can't always separate standards advice from personal
vilification - no matter how polite, rational, independently
verfiable...


I think its important to understand that, for a lot of people who  
actually work on a site, when you say your site doesn't validate/   
isn't accessible/ doesn't work in my browser what they hear is your  
skills are no good / you don't know how to do your job/ say goodbye  
to that next payrise
It takes incredible tact to tell people what a problem is without  
making it feel to them like a personal attack - and I don't know  
about you, but I'm a geek; tact isn't on my strong list :)


I'm not saying don't confront - no way! But I am saying that if you  
can't reach the right audience (the people who sign off on the bills,  
quite often, not the developer) then don't be surprised when they act  
like you have hit them in the face with a wet fish.


Actually, Sunny, have you thought about maybe you hit a home run and  
got all the guy's hot buttons?
Maybe (s)he knew all those things were a problem and couldn't bear  
them being brought up by (cough, splutter) a *customer*

g

Lea
~ although I still can't believe the gall of a response like that:  
'your problems with our site are your own problem.' Amazing! Can you  
imagine going into a supermarket and, upon asking for help finding  
the eggs, being told that the supermarket layout is your problem;  
find them yourself? g

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Re: [WSG] A hand with text wrapping around images in CSS?

2006-02-05 Thread Lea de Groot


On 06/02/2006, at 5:30 PM, John S. Britsios wrote:

I would like to ask here, if there is a possibility making my texts  
wrap around the bottom of my images
here http://www.webnauts.net/redesign/test.html, without becoming  
rubbish when resizing the page.


We've discussed this one before (a long time ago - I remember because  
last time it was me who asked :)) and concluded that it can only be  
done by including the IMG element in the HTML and floating it.
If anyone has thought up something since I would love to hear it, as  
I go for this effect all the time. :(


Lea
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Re: [WSG] Background-Image download order

2006-02-01 Thread Lea de Groot

On 02/02/2006, at 9:59 AM, Todd Baker wrote:

We are finding that the background images for our main navigation are
downloading last and as such the white text is unreadable untill the
background arrives .. almost last. The list that drives this is right
at the topm of the source code.


I've always found the download order somewhat unpredictable,  
particularly cross-browser. Generally the image you want most drops  
in last (I think its related to that butter and bread falling thing)


Just to be a naysayer, have you given consideration to the  
accessability issues of background images being Important?
Derek Featherstone's CSS Background Images: Naughty or Nice?  
discusses it nicely.
http://24ways.org/advent/naughty-or-nice-css-background-images (Hi  
Derek!)

Hope that doesn't make you scream too much :)

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Re: [WSG] No style

2006-01-31 Thread Lea de Groot

On 31/01/2006, at 4:59 PM, Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox wrote:
Let's say I have my global style sheet where I style my ph1  
etc. but on one page I have a div with id #editableArea
I want that div to have no style applied that is defined in the  
style sheet, is that possible?


You would have to undefine any styles applied to it - basically,  
there is no such thing as 'unstyled' in the sense you use it, you  
just have to unset everything that has been applied to it.
The easiest way to do that, I think, would be to open the page in  
Firefox, open the DOM Inspector (Under 'Tools') and navigate down to  
the element of interest. The view 'computed styles' under the icon at  
the top left of the right hand pane, and examine what it has.
You would have to change such things as colours, margins, font-size -  
everything listed there.
Bear in mind that some things are set to 0, some to 'none' and  some  
to 'normal' (Oh for some commonality!)


HIH
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Re: [WSG] list's with header text

2006-01-31 Thread Lea de Groot

On 31/01/2006, at 8:39 PM, Paul Collins wrote:
Just wondering if there is such a thing as a header tag for a HTML  
list, ul or ol, such as the TH tag or the Summary tag for a table?


No, sadly. The only way to 'associate' a header with some following  
content is to wrap the set in a div, or similar:

div id=thisweek
h2The following are the days of the week:/h2
ol
liMonday/li
liTuesday/li
liWednesday/li
...
/ol
/div

Wouldn't
h2 for=mylist/h2
ol id=mylist/ol
be nice? :)
Who's got the ear of the W3C? ;)

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Re: [WSG] list's with header text

2006-01-31 Thread Lea de Groot


On 31/01/2006, at 10:54 PM, Patrick Lauke wrote:


It's not really a scalable solution, IMHO.


Possibly true, but it doesn't make the concept entirely useless.

As someone already mentioned, the source order should be enough to  
inform what the heading refers to, without the need for explicit  
association.


Generally, yes. Its certainly what I use ATM.
I guess we're all just looking for that magic bullet :)

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Re: ADMIN Moral High-horse - was Re: [WSG] Failed Redesign and the Media

2006-01-31 Thread Lea de Groot

On 01/02/2006, at 4:54 PM, Ray Cauchi wrote:

Can someone pleeese just put this thread to its death?
There are much more important things going on in this list...this  
is a waste of space...


No, its important that we define what behaviour is correct and  
acceptable in the community we are building.
But, at the same time, I think we've wrung all the value out of this  
one - the thread's not closed, but 'me toos' won't add any value.
Be sure you are offering something new before you bother... default  
to 'I shouldn't bother'


warmly,
Lea
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Re: [WSG] A Question of Slices

2006-01-29 Thread Lea de Groot

On 30/01/2006, at 4:35 AM, Chris Kennon wrote:

http://working.bushidodeep.com/remix/remix_bg.jpg


Interesting - its a fixed size image. Why slice at all? Drop the  
whole image in as a background, then use a px measurement on the  
content for margins to make sure it stays in the alloted space.
The reason I normally slice is because I will have some portion in  
the middle repeating - this doesn't appear to be the case here?

Are there any other reasons for slicing that I am overlooking?

warmly,
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Re: [WSG] A Question of Slices

2006-01-29 Thread Lea de Groot

On 30/01/2006, at 8:14 AM, Chris Kennon wrote:

http://working.bushidodeep.com/remix/remix_bg.jpg
The plan is the very back (the textured back ground) is the  
container_bg, the cards are the content_bg, and my question was on  
properly slicing up the tabs along the right side of the cards, for  
use as navigation,


Ah, my apologies - I didn't even *see* the tabs :(
I think my first attempt would to cut the image into 5 pieces:
- the entire left hand side
- top right hand piece, including top tab
- 2 x middle tabs, out to right hand edge of image
- bottom right hand piece, including bottom tab.

This gives the minimum number of pieces to apply to elements.
Hmmm... although thats going to make the anchor over the large pieces  
difficult...


OK, second try:
I would cut it into 6 pieces:
- the left hand piece, to the edge of the top piece of paper
- the right hand piece, from that edge to the right hand edge of the  
image *and do some clever editing so the tabs dont appear*
- then one piece for each tab. This would overlay the large right  
hand piece
I assume the tab sticking out further is the current one - a separate  
image for that.
Not sure if I would make the list item containing the tab the size of  
the larger tab or the size of the smaller one, I would have to  
experiment.


Does that help more?
:)

warmly,
Lea
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Re: [WSG] A Question of Slices

2006-01-29 Thread Lea de Groot


On 30/01/2006, at 11:48 AM, Chris Kennon wrote:


Does this also beg the question, are the tabs to small?


looks again and thinks
Possibly.
Its more about the contrast - the shadow of the top page goes over  
the tab, moving it to 'dont notice me'
Yes, I think making the tabs bigger is the obvious solution - hope  
you can do it without ruining the image.
BTW - beautiful work! Wish I could do graphics like that! :) (I have  
to subcontract to get that quality :))


and I think we're off topic now - please dont start a big thread  
about the size of the tabs. Consider whether your response could be  
sent offlist (I had to send something onlist in order to say this!),  
but I'm sure Chris would love your opinion and suggestions!


Lea
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Re: [WSG] The dilemma: tabular data with sublevels

2006-01-28 Thread Lea de Groot


On 29/01/2006, at 8:57 AM, Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] wrote:


[Add] [Edit] [Delete] Folder 1
[Add] [Edit] [Delete]SubFolder 1
[Add] [Edit] [Delete]SubFolder 2
[Add] [Edit] [Delete]SubSubFolder 1
[Add] [Edit] [Delete]SubSubFolder 2
[Add] [Edit] [Delete]SubFolder 3
[Add] [Edit] [Delete] Folder 2


The other option, from an interface point of view rather than  
standards/semantics, is selection:

[ ] Folder 1
[ ]SubFolder 1
[ ]SubFolder 2
[ ]SubSubFolder 1
[ ]SubSubFolder 2
[ ]SubFolder 3
[ ] Folder 2
   [Add] [Edit] [Delete]

The main 'hard choice' with that layout is 'radio button' or 'checkbox'?
Just an option :)

HIH
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[WSG] Google HTML Check

2006-01-25 Thread Lea de Groot

Interestingly, Google has run a check on the use of HTML elements
http://code.google.com/webstats/index.html
I haven't finished reading it, but I am depressed already. Missing  
alt tags, pervasive table tags... the indicators of poor structure go  
on.

tries to look on the bright side
Well, at least it means lots of work for us, fixing the world's  
problems!

:(

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Re: [WSG] ordered lists inside data tables

2006-01-04 Thread Lea de Groot

On 04/01/2006, at 6:29 PM, Vicki Berry wrote:
With a bit of fiddling I can put a whole list in one table row and  
get the prices to align (might work as long as everyone views in  
the same sized browser window so there is no wrapping! Ha!) but  
then I lose the association between each item and its fee - or  
don't I? Is there another way to do this (using ids perhaps?) where  
I can achieve what I need to do? I can't simply put each item and  
price in its own table row, because then I can't keep the list.


Can you show us an example of what you have so far? It does sound  
like it should be a table, IMHO.


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Re: [WSG] ordered lists inside data tables

2006-01-04 Thread Lea de Groot

On 05/01/2006, at 1:04 AM, Vicki Berry wrote:

http://www.mrc.wa.gov.au/services/fee_schedule.html


The first decision to make is: is the numbering part of the content?
By this I mean does it have to be exact - if this is legislation then  
you may well have to ensure the numbers appear, then you have to  
write them into the content, rather than adding it with css.
If this is the case, then a lot of your issues go away, as you don't  
have the issue of 'is at an ordered list or a table'.
I think it is a table, however if you really want to make it an  
ordered list, I would think that something like:

hnNon Compacted Waste/hn
ol
liTrailer 1.8m x 1.2m or less (per wheel of truck or trailer)span  
class=price17.10/span/li
liTrailer larger than 1.8m x 1.2m (per wheel of truck or trailer) 
span class=price17.10/span/li

/ol

span.price {
  float: right;
  width: 4em;
  text-align: left;
}

** caveat: untested **

would allow you to float the prices right while associating them with  
the item.


HIH
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Re: [WSG] *Why* doesn't Google validate? was New logo scheme was talking points for standards

2005-12-09 Thread Lea de Groot

On 10/12/2005, at 1:20 AM, matt andrews wrote:

Hi Lea,  I completely agree.  Google have somehow developed a blind
spot when it comes to meeting even the basics of current web
standards.  As an exercise, I just threw together a valid version of
the Google Search page:

blog entry:
http://tbp.xomerang.com/?p=18

example page:
http://xomerang.com/testpages/google/validGoogle.html


Hey, cool stuff! :)
I thought about doing that, but decided I didn't have time.
Interestingly, comparing the two pages in
http://www.websiteoptimization.com/services/analyze/
shows the original is *slightly* lighter (but I bet you could beat  
that by removing more carriage returns, same as the original)
Hmmm... the javascript isn't there... I wonder if it would add much  
weight - I wonder if its reused on other pages.

I don't think the comparision is valid without it. :(

Lea
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Re: [WSG] *Why* doesn't Google validate? was New logo scheme was talking points for standards

2005-12-08 Thread Lea de Groot

On 08/12/2005, at 5:35 PM, Bert Doorn wrote:
Just thinking Google may fall into this category as it's obviously  
script driven.


Yeah, its probably mostly that - they are back end coders and aren't  
aware of the front end issues.
But - this is *Google*!! They are hiring the best of breed. I can't  
believe that no one over there has ever come across WaSP et al. :(


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Re: [WSG] *Why* doesn't Google validate? was New logo scheme was talking points for standards

2005-12-08 Thread Lea de Groot

On 08/12/2005, at 10:29 PM, James Ellis wrote:
Having a valid frontend has nothing to do with whether an  
organisation attempts to be socially responsible. I'm sure there  
are heaps of slightly dodgy organisations out there that hire  
programmers who understand standards.


See, thats where I differ - I think that to say 'we do this other  
stuff thats Good, so we don't have to worry about something as  
trivial as Web Standards'[1] undermines all our work, which we like  
to think makes the world a Better Place.
By declining to support Standards they implicitly state that it isn't  
important, and as I think it Is important, I feel they are not doing  
good, they are doing... that other thing ;)


By being a big company (and by golly by market valuation they are  
absolutely Huge these days!) they implicitly make a massive statement  
about the value of something simply by ignoring it :(


Lea
[1] And, I must point out, in fact, they don't say any such thing -  
as usual they don't say anything at all about the matter. No one  
knows why they've never spent the 2.5 hours required to bring at  
least the home page up to standards...

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Re: [WSG] *Why* doesn't Google validate? was New logo scheme was talking points for standards

2005-12-08 Thread Lea de Groot

On 09/12/2005, at 12:20 AM, Al Sparber wrote:
But if I were you, I'd get in touch with Google and really lay into  
them about this :-)


What, when I can whinge on a mailing list?
No, no - I'm leading open and earnest discussion, honest I am ;)

OK, OK, I'll try to figure out what email address to use later today :)

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ADMIN - thread closedRe: [WSG] Dynamic Styles - Inline? What?

2005-12-08 Thread Lea de Groot

On 09/12/2005, at 2:42 PM, Joshua Street wrote:

.htaccess maybe?


Yep, the syntax is:
AddType application/x-httpd-php .html .htm .whateverExtension

This part of the thread is closed, please - we're way off topic!

warmly,
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