Re: [WSG] IE7 zoom collapses horizontal tab navigation

2007-06-22 Thread Miles Tillinger
Hi Paul,
 
Its ok when using the View  Text Size  options, but if I use the Zoom
tool in the bottom right hand corner to set a percentage zoom, that's
when the problem occurs.  Is it the Zoom tool you tried?  If so, then
I'm even more confused!
 
Cheers,
 
Miles.

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[WSG] IE7 zoom collapses horizontal tab navigation

2007-06-21 Thread Miles Tillinger
This is a centered tab menu based on Alistapart's Sliding Doors concept.
The IE7 zoom tool is making the anchor text in the tabs 'collapse' away
from the tab background images.  See example:
http://www.streetdaddy.com/temp/ce/
 
It only happens when the li is display: block (needed to center the ul).
Its fine if the li's are floated.
 
I can't seem to find a fix for the problem, but it must be out there...
anyone?
 
Cheers,
 
Miles.
 

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RE: [WSG] AIMIA Awards

2006-02-27 Thread Miles Tillinger
I am going to the Awards ceremony at the Adelaide Convention Centre as
my work was given some invites.  I'm interested to see what sort of role
standards has played in the finalists projects and I'll be sure to ask
lots of annoying questions if I get the chance!

Sifting through the finalists doesn't give much hope, e.g. the non-flash
version of the Australia Post Personalised Stamps online
(http://www.pstamps.auspost.com.au/) uses javascript includes for the
header and footer ... http://www.engagingcommunities2005.org/ doesn't
even have alt text on the splash page images (but wait, they've broken
up the image for better optimisation!  wow, maybe I'm wrong, they're way
ahead of the game on that one) ... I could go on... I don't think
standards-compliance was a priority!

Any other Adelaide WSG'ers going?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kat
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 4:09 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] AIMIA Awards


Gday,

I find this list filled with dynamic, inspirational people. I come away 
being motivated and energised. I love youse guys. :)

Today, I came across AIMIA (Australian Interactive Media Industry 
Association - http://www.aimia.com.au/) that are having their 12th 
Annual AIMIA awards. Is anyone a member of this group? Does anyone know 
anything about them? Is anyone a finalist?

I had a look at some of the finalists and although they seem to require 
WCAG Priority 1 Accessibility, to reach that, don't your websites need 
to actually validate (at least some of their finalists don't)? Have I 
misunderstood?

I rather think it's a good idea - but I think it misses a certain 
something (tableless design, validation, accessibility, etc). There are 
so many designers/developers on this list (and elsewhere) doing so many 
amazing things - why don't they ever get recognised for the good things 
they do? They deserve it more!! Would there be a way to give them the 
recognition they deserve?

Kat



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RE: [WSG] AIMIA Awards

2006-02-27 Thread Miles Tillinger
Further investigation shows that there are a few finalists that have
somewhat adhered to standards, but hardly to the level of satisfaction
that many WSG regulars would want.  I think they're missing a category:

BEST ACCESSIBILITY

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kat
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 4:09 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] AIMIA Awards


Gday,

I find this list filled with dynamic, inspirational people. I come away 
being motivated and energised. I love youse guys. :)

Today, I came across AIMIA (Australian Interactive Media Industry 
Association - http://www.aimia.com.au/) that are having their 12th 
Annual AIMIA awards. Is anyone a member of this group? Does anyone know 
anything about them? Is anyone a finalist?

I had a look at some of the finalists and although they seem to require 
WCAG Priority 1 Accessibility, to reach that, don't your websites need 
to actually validate (at least some of their finalists don't)? Have I 
misunderstood?

I rather think it's a good idea - but I think it misses a certain 
something (tableless design, validation, accessibility, etc). There are 
so many designers/developers on this list (and elsewhere) doing so many 
amazing things - why don't they ever get recognised for the good things 
they do? They deserve it more!! Would there be a way to give them the 
recognition they deserve?

Kat



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RE: [WSG] new yahoo user interface library

2006-02-14 Thread Miles Tillinger



I am in awe! I'm yet to score a commercial excuse to 
implement an AJAX solution, but I've been playing around with 
scriptaculousand other frameworks. This offering from Yahoo is just 
amazing and looks to provide yet more functionality. I'm sure this will be 
appreciated by everyone who is lucky enough to use it!

Thanks, Miles. 


  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted 
  DrakeSent: Wednesday, 15 February 2006 4:28 AMTo: 
  wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: [WSG] new yahoo user interface 
  library
  
  
  Hi 
All
  As you may know, Yahoo has been 
  hiring some very talented web developers over the past year, not to mention 
  purchasing great companies like flickr and 
  de.licio.us.
  
  Now, they have opened that wealth 
  of talent to you for free. Yes, Im pimping my bosses. But seriously, this is 
  really good stuff. Theyve released an open-source platform of standards-based 
  code snippets and best-practices. Many of these are similar to other 
  projects out there. However, Yahoo has taken the time to make sure they scale 
  to millions of hits and pass privacy scrutiny (now stop typing the 
  China related snickering), Im 
  talking about making sure there are no memory leaks or possibly passing along 
  less that secure protocols. Further, the library discusses the JSON data 
  transfer protocol.
  
  So, enough of the sales pitch (I 
  had nothing to do with this project.. but I plan on using it!) visit the http://www.yuiblog.com/ yahoo user 
  interface blog and learn how to use these advanced programming techniques. 
  
  
  Ted 
  Drake
  Front-end 
  Engineer
  Yahoo! 
  Tech
  	
	
	
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[WSG] 3 column layout - centre column forced below side columns in IE at low resolution

2006-02-08 Thread Miles Tillinger
I recently launched an overhaul of the interface of
www.education.gov.au.  Its been a bit of a battle trying to get the
client to sacrifice things for the sake of accessibility and
standards-compliance, not to mention the state of the legacy content and
CMS templates, battles still raging anyway , those things
aside...

There is a problem with the 3-column layout I've implemented.  In IE at
resolutions around 800x600 and below the centre column is dropping below
the left and right floated columns.  I know its to do with the animated
GIF logo at the top of the centre column and have already made a fix
(not in production yet) so the problem doesn't occur at 800x600.

What I'm looking for is suggestions of better columnar layout in which
rather than the centre column dropping down, columns stay where they
should and the browser's horizontal scrollbar appears instead.

URL:www.education.gov.au
CSS:http://www.education.gov.au/intranet.css
http://www.education.gov.au/styles/basic.css
http://www.education.gov.au/styles/layout.css
http://www.education.gov.au/styles/content.css
etc... so many, you're better off using the FF Web Dev
extension!

Any advice is much appreciated!


Regards,

Miles.
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RE: [WSG] CSS Driven?

2005-12-12 Thread Miles Tillinger
Could CSS be used to display that two-column table layout as a single
column?  Say. for small screen devices like PDA's or XDA's?  Seems to be
a flaw of table-based layouts and crosses platform-independence off the
list...  

correct me if I'm wrong (I usually am)...

Regards,

Miles.
 

 As for a standards-based page, agreeing that it is not a hard 
 and fast rule that tables be banned for layout, can you 
 present some logical arguments against this page - keeping 
 strictly within the context of standards:
 
 http://www.projectseven.com/csslab/zealotry/linear_basics.htm
 
 
 Al Sparber
 PVII
 http://www.projectseven.com
 
 Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a 
 crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the 
 knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday.
 
 
 
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[WSG] Friday fun with Suckerfish dropdowns

2005-08-26 Thread Miles Tillinger
Has anyone been able to successfully right align the Suckerfish
horizontal dropdown menu without defining the width of the container or
UL?  Preferably would work in Opera and Mac IE5 if possible.

I am using the following example:

http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/bones/

MT.
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[WSG] 100% width table inside a DIV

2005-08-17 Thread Miles Tillinger
Hi,

Consider the following example:

http://www.streetdaddy.com/temp/index.html
http://www.streetdaddy.com/temp/index.css

I am developing a site based around this structure, however something in
the complicated CSS of my site is causing it to not behave the same as
this simple example.  The basic problem is that IE5+ is calculating
percentage widths based on the viewport rather than its parent element,
so the 100% width table goes off screen and the floated inner-columns
don't fit next to each other .  I have tried and tried to work out why
this is happening, to no avail...  Can anyone fill me in on the nuances
of this annoying problem?  Will I need to employ some browser specific
hacks?

The site im developing is slightly sensitive but if needed I can post up
the HTML and CSS for it...

Cheers,

Miles.
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RE: [WSG] 100% width table inside a DIV [SOLVED]

2005-08-17 Thread Miles Tillinger
SOLVED ... I think!

After reading some recenet articles at positioniseverything.net I
discovered that one method of fixing the IE bug is to use the
double-wrapper method:
http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/percentages.html (down the
page)

Not elegant, but works for me in IE5+.

The root cause is that I'm using a fluid 3 column layout in which the
centre div does not have a fixed width.  Setting a relative width on the
centre div also caused problems.  So I have another div around the table
so it can use it as the parent element:

div style=width:100%;
table ... /table
/div

So I can now have the table width set to 100% in CSS without causing any
problems.  I assume I could also set the table width inline but since
that sucks I haven't bothered to confirm it...

If there's a better way to do it I'd love to hear about it, but for now
it might just help me meet my deadline!

Regards,

Miles.
 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Miles Tillinger
 Sent: Wednesday, 17 August 2005 3:27 PM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: [WSG] 100% width table inside a DIV
 
 Hi,
 
 Consider the following example:
 
 http://www.streetdaddy.com/temp/index.html
 http://www.streetdaddy.com/temp/index.css
 
 I am developing a site based around this structure, however 
 something in the complicated CSS of my site is causing it to 
 not behave the same as this simple example.  The basic 
 problem is that IE5+ is calculating percentage widths based 
 on the viewport rather than its parent element, so the 100% 
 width table goes off screen and the floated inner-columns 
 don't fit next to each other .  I have tried and tried to 
 work out why this is happening, to no avail...  Can anyone 
 fill me in on the nuances of this annoying problem?  Will I 
 need to employ some browser specific hacks?
 
 The site im developing is slightly sensitive but if needed I 
 can post up the HTML and CSS for it...
 
 Cheers,
 
 Miles.
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RE: [WSG] how to use external fonts with css?

2005-04-07 Thread Miles Tillinger
I can't remember for sure, but I think font embedding is an IE only
thing...

IMHO it's for the best anyway coz I'd hate to try and read a page of
content written in some crazy Matrix font or similar!

Regards,

Miles.
 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hopkins Programming
 Sent: Thursday, 7 April 2005 12:20 AM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: [WSG] how to use external fonts with css?
 
 I looked into this once.  It was a little over my head, but 
 maybe it can help you - 
 http://www.netmechanic.com/news/vol3/css_no15.htm
 
 --Zachary
 
 On Apr 6, 2005 10:31 AM, tomcask o_o [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   I will wish to use external fonts (noncommon to pcs, 
 obtained through 
  server by the pagina Web) for my designs with css, somebody 
 knows like 
  doing it?
   
   Thanks.
   
 
 
 -- 
 
 ==
 The best way to predict the future is to invent it. 
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  http://www.hopkinsprogramming.net
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RE: [WSG] naughty horizontal unformatted list in OSX IE 5.2 - Mac-addicts needed!

2005-03-10 Thread Miles Tillinger
Hi Zachary,

I'll take a better look at your link bar and see if I can work out why
yours works and my doesn't...  thanks :)

nb. In my CSS, the LI's are floated left and it doesn't seem to help...

Regards,

Miles.
 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zachary Hopkins
 Sent: Friday, 11 March 2005 10:54 AM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: [WSG] naughty horizontal unformatted list in OSX 
 IE 5.2 - Mac-addicts needed!
 
 I've got a horizontal link bar on my site, 
 http://www.hopkinsprogramming.net/, it works fine in IE 5 on 
 Mac.  Try adding *float:left* to the navigation items.
 
 --Zachary
 
 Miles Tillinger wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 I've managed to get this horizontal menu working in most 
 browsers that 
 it needs to, but IE 5.2 on OSX is being painful (not surprisingly).  
 The original HTML was provided by another designer who 
 seemed to build 
 standard-compliant sites differently to me so I've changed 
 most of the 
 menus to use unformatted lists.  The Top Menu list refuses to go 
 horizontal, instead it just stacks the list items.  Also the links 
 don't even work!  A nested list is supposed to popup when 
 hovering over 
 'Components', however I expected that to be a problem.
 
 Example page
 http://career.uat.edna.edu.au/career/Jahia/news
 
 CSS
 http://career.uat.edna.edu.au/styles/acdsScreen.css
 
 I'm running out of hair trying to get a nice solution, so 
 before I give 
 in and use a hack to hide the styles from OSX IE 5.2, has 
 anyone been 
 able to fix a similar problem?
 
 Regards,
 
 Miles Tillinger
 Senior Technical Officer
 education.au limited
 178 Fullarton Road
 Dulwich SA 5065
 Ph. (08) 8334 3247
 Fax. (08) 8334 3211
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Please visit our websites: 
 http://www.edna.edu.au/
 http://www.educationau.edu.au/
 Building and managing online information services and knowledge 
 networks
 
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 -- 
 
 The best way to predict the future is to invent it. 
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  http://www.hopkinsprogramming.net
 
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RE: [WSG] Has news.com.au redesigned to Standards?

2005-01-23 Thread Miles Tillinger
A lot less tables than before 8D but plenty of validation errors...  It
scares me to think of how difficult it would be to keep all of the
content compliant when there's so much 3rd party shite plugged into
every page.  Definitely a step in the right direction, thumbs up!

Mt. 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, 24 January 2005 9:07 AM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: [WSG] Has news.com.au redesigned to Standards?
 
 http://www.news.com.au/
 
 I had a pleasant surprise this morning when I saw this 
 redesign.  Good to see another big site making the effort.
 
 Cheers
 
 ***
 Helen Rysavy
 Web Designer, Teaching  Learning Development Charles Darwin 
 University, Northern Territory 0909
 Tel: 8946 7779 Mobile: 0403 290 842
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 www.cdu.edu.au
 CRICOS Provider No: 00300K
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RE: [WSG] IE 5

2005-01-03 Thread Miles Tillinger
In regards to the links ppl have given you to the 'Multiple Internet
Explorer versions' downloads, you should be aware of the potential
issues.  There is no evidence either way that says this method is a true
representation of older versions of IE and all inherent issues with
Javascript, CSS, DOM, etc.  Sure it's a great way to quickly check
cross-browser compatibility across a few different version of IE, but
never forget that the most comprehensive method of testing is to have a
proper suite of OS's and browsers available to you, either via multiple
PC's or one PC with Virtual OS's.  If you have the time and the money
then your final product should be put through a proper test suite before
going to production, don't rely on 'hacks'.

Mt.
 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, 4 January 2005 9:11 AM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: [WSG] IE 5
 
 Hi All,
 
 I hope this isn't OT, but I want to test my sites on various 
 browsers and versions to ensure their compliancy, which I'm 
 assuming is standards related. I currently have IE 6.0, NN 
 7.0, FF 1.0 and Mozilla 1.6
 
 I downloaded IE version 5.0 from your Evolt's browser 
 archive, and wanted to ensure that initiating the setup 
 wouldn't cause problems with my current OS or browser 
 configuration. I'm currently running Windows XP Home Edition, 
 and I recieve the following message when I launch the setup
 application:
 
 The Windows Update: Internet Explorer and Internet Tools 
 files on your computer are not the correct files for your 
 operating system. Setup will download the correct files from 
 the Internet.
 
 I know many of you are running IE 5, and wondered if you had 
 encountered any problems running multiple versions? Any 
 advice you can provide ragarding this matter would be greatly 
 appreciated.
 
 Respectfully yours,
 Mario S. Cisneros, President
 WebNet Design Studios, LLC
 
 
 
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[WSG] Unordered list as Path won't wrap

2004-12-22 Thread Miles Tillinger
Hi,

I'm trying to represent the path as an unordered list, e.g.

Home  Level One  Level Two  Level Three  etc.

ul
  liHome/li
  liLevel One/li
  liLevel Two/li
  liLevel Three/li
  lietc./li
/ul

However in situations where the path is extremely long the list will not
wrap and breaks my layout, so I've had to float the div so it will wrap.
This in turn causes problems with the title if the path information goes
beyond one line.

An example with a long path:
http://dev4.newstage.edna.edu.au/aictec/go/pid/128
CSS is at:
http://dev4.newstage.edna.edu.au/aictec/jsp/jahia/templates/aictecsite/d
efault/styles/aictec.css

Any suggestions of a better way to achieve this will be appreciated.  I
am determined to keep it as a list!

Mt.


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[WSG] 4-column layout

2004-07-29 Thread Miles Tillinger
Title: 4-column layout






I've been able to find a few 4-column CSS layouts but they're all either 4x fixed divs or 4x fluid divs. Before I embark on my own voyage of discovery/pain, is there any examples that allow for a mixture of fluid and fixed divs? I've thought a bit about it and I'm envisaging some major cross-browser issues, but then I'm dumber than most so maybe some clever person has come up with something?

Thanks in advance...


Mt.


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RE: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?

2004-07-28 Thread Miles Tillinger
That's not the first vulnerability to be found in Firefox and whilst it
may be ammunition for IE-zealots it's nothing compared to all of the
exploits that IE is vulnerable to...  As Firefox gains popularity I
don't doubt more holes will appear, but that's the price of fame!

Mt. 

 -Original Message-
 From: Amit Karmakar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 12:24 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
 
 Although I support firefox  this may work against Firefox thought.
 http://secunia.com/advisories/12160/
 
 
 
 On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 14:29:41 +1200, Peter Asquith 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hi Helen
  
  I use Firefox, in combination with Chris Pederick's Web Developer 
  extension 
 (http://www.chrispederick.com/work/firefox/webdeveloper/), 
  as my primary development browser. Firefox renders my 
 markup and CSS 
  as I'd expect it to be rendered, gives me good page information and 
  has a built in DOM inspector. Once the Web Developer toolbar is 
  included it becomes very easy to check on page structure, 
 validation and the like.
  
  Opera still has some rendering quirks and a somewhat more 
 cluttered feel.
  
  I know this isn't much help for your list but there's a 
 certain je ne 
  sais quoi about Firefox - it just feels right!
  
  Cheers
  Peter
  
  ---
  Peter Asquith
  http://www.wasabicube.com
  
  
  
  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  Hi
  
  I'm putting together a list of web development tools and 
 am wondering 
  about the following:
  
  Why is the Firefox browser used by Web Developers?   What 
 does it have that
  makes it a good tool?  - over other browsers?  Why not Opera?
  
  Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks
  
  ***
  Helen Rysavy
  Designer / Webmaster
  Learning Resources Division
  Charles Darwin University
  Northern Territory 0909
  Tel: 8946 7779 Mobile: 0403 290 842
  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  www.cdu.edu.au
  CRICOS Provider No: 00300K
  ***
  
  
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 --
 Regards,
 Amit Karmakar
 http://www.karmakars.com
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RE: [WSG] What CMSs are Developers Using

2004-07-05 Thread Miles Tillinger
I'm using Jahia CMS at work (www.jahia.org), however commercial license
is pricey.  Jahia allows you to develop templates from scratch so the
site and content can be as standard as you want to make it.  The admin
and content management interface would not be classed as standards-based
or accessible but if you really needed to, say if Content Editors would
be using assistive technologies, you could go through the source and fix
it up.

Mt.

 -Original Message-
 From: Geoff Deering [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 3:27 PM
 To: WebStandardsGroup
 Subject: [WSG] What CMSs are Developers Using
 
 Hi,
 
 Can I ask what commercial and/or open source CMSs developers 
 on this list use, which ones they prefer, ones they don't 
 like (and for what reasons).  I am asking from the point of 
 view of providing clients with easy to use interfaces, whilst 
 maintaining standards based markup?
 
 Is anyone using Apache/Cocoon/Lenya, Apache/AxKit or Forrest?
 
 Regards
 Geoff Deering
 
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RE: [WSG] How to Make Your Web Site Work with Windows XP Service Pack 2

2004-06-09 Thread Miles Tillinger
Hi Neerav,

Thanks for the link :)  Very useful to know...  Just another good reason to build 
accessible interfaces...  I now know a few of my older sites will have problems due to 
SP2 but I wouldn't have realised if not for those checkpoints!

Cheers,

Mt.

 -Original Message-
 From: Neerav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 10:11 AM
 To: WSG
 Subject: [WSG] How to Make Your Web Site Work with Windows XP Service
 Pack 2
 
 
 I foresee in my crystal ball a lot of headaches for web 
 developers who 
 use popups  Heres something that might help
 
 http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-
 us/dnwxp/html/xpsp2websites.asp
 
 -- 
 Neerav Bhatt
 http://www.bhatt.id.au
 Web Development  IT consultancy
 Mobile: +61 403 8000 27
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RE: [WSG] www.seoed.com - Please review

2004-06-08 Thread Miles Tillinger
I think the design is great, very clean and easy to read.  My only thought as far as 
standards go is that for the title 'SEOed.com' you could use:

h1span class=oneSeo/spanspan class=oneed/spanspan 
class=one.com/span/h1

instead of an image and format the text with CSS, using some spans to create the 
desired effect.

Just my $0.02...

Mt.

 -Original Message-
 From: Razvan Pop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 1:18 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [WSG] www.seoed.com - Please review
 
 
 Hello.
 
 http://www.seoed.com/
 
 Please take a look at my site and tell me what you think. :)
 
 I would like some more opinions regarding usability and accessibility.
 
 I look forward for your feedback. Site in 90% finished.
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RE: [WSG] Definition list formatting problem in IE

2004-05-27 Thread Miles Tillinger
Update!

Added width: 50em; to dd and it stopped it from floating to the right.  But now the dd 
wraps at a fixed width!  I want it to go 100% but it won't play ball...

Mt.

 -Original Message-
 From: Miles Tillinger 
 Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 3:26 PM
 To: Web Standards Group (E-mail)
 Subject: [WSG] Definition list formatting problem in IE
 
 
 Surprise!  A formatting problem in IE...
 
 In IE5+ and Opera, the second dd, which contains the Category 
 links, is jumping up and floating to the right of the first 
 dd with the URL.  It displays fine in Firefox and Netscape 7.
 
 html/css is at http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/index2.html
 
 Thanks in advance,
 
 Miles.
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RE: [WSG] Definition list formatting problem in IE

2004-05-27 Thread Miles Tillinger
It would appear not... :)  Thanks Patrick, worked a treat!

 -Original Message-
 From: P.H.Lauke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 8:30 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: [WSG] Definition list formatting problem in IE
 
 
 Have you tried *not* floating the dd?
 
 #apiresults dt
 {
   width: 8em;
   float: left;
   clear: left;
   margin: 0;
   padding: 0;
   font-weight: normal;
 }
 
 #apiresults dd
 {
   margin: 0;
   padding: 0;
 }
 
 Should be enough.
 
 Patrick
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Miles Tillinger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: 27 May 2004 08:09
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: RE: [WSG] Definition list formatting problem in IE
  
  
  Update!
  
  Added width: 50em; to dd and it stopped it from floating to 
  the right.  But now the dd wraps at a fixed width!  I want it 
  to go 100% but it won't play ball...
  
  Mt.
  
   -Original Message-
   From: Miles Tillinger 
   Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 3:26 PM
   To: Web Standards Group (E-mail)
   Subject: [WSG] Definition list formatting problem in IE
   
   
   Surprise!  A formatting problem in IE...
   
   In IE5+ and Opera, the second dd, which contains the Category 
   links, is jumping up and floating to the right of the first 
   dd with the URL.  It displays fine in Firefox and Netscape 7.
   
   html/css is at http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/index2.html
   
   Thanks in advance,
   
   Miles.
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RE: [WSG] new to the list

2004-05-27 Thread Miles Tillinger
Because you've declared XHTML doctype for your page (see first line of your code) you 
need to use parameter=value pairs in all cases.

So for valid XHTML you'd need

option value=# selected=selectedSelect a page/option

For more XHTML syntax rules see http://www.w3schools.com/xhtml/xhtml_syntax.asp

If you don't really need to use XHTML then just use HTML doctype and you won't need 
the pairs.

HTH.

-Original Message-
From: Marie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:47 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] new to the list


I'm having an issue with a drop-down menu on my page. When I run my validator it comes 
up with this message  I'm not sure how to fix it - can someone help please?

The page is here - http://marie-str.com/faeries/tester.html

This is the line of code I'm referring to -
option value=# selectedSelect a page/option

and this is the message I get -
The attribute selected does not have a value. All attributes must have a value. This 
is required for XHTML/XML documents or if the option to require attribute values is 
enabled. 

Marie  ~aka~  Vanille 
About Certified XHTML Developer Level 1
Vanille's Place - http://marie-str.com
Technicolour Rainbow - http://techrain.ca
the FlipSide - http://the-flipside.com
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[WSG] Definition list formatting problem in IE

2004-05-26 Thread Miles Tillinger
Surprise!  A formatting problem in IE...

In IE5+ and Opera, the second dd, which contains the Category links, is jumping up and 
floating to the right of the first dd with the URL.  It displays fine in Firefox and 
Netscape 7.

html/css is at http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/index2.html

Thanks in advance,

Miles.
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[WSG] Mozilla and lack of URL wrapping

2004-05-23 Thread Miles Tillinger
IE6 wraps long URL's at spaces ( ), hyphens (-), question marks (?) and percent signs 
(%), whereas Mozilla doesn't wrap unbroken strings at all.  In the crazy world of 
CMS's and unpredictable 'cowboy' content editors this can be a bit of a problem for 
multi-column portal sites. Is there any way to make Mozilla play nice without 
resorting to a server-side solution?

Mt.
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RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary?

2004-05-13 Thread Miles Tillinger
My short answer:

A uni degree is more than just a piece of paper, its a statement that you were 
determined and dedicated enought to finish what you'd started.  I dropped out in 3rd 
of 4 years and even though it hasn't affected me yet, I worry that I'll be wishing I 
had finished it when I apply for higher paid positions in future.

My long answer:

If you have 3 hours free to read my rant below you might make some sense of it.  After 
reading it myself I'm thinking that I just really needed to VENT!

RANT ALERT!

I don't think anyone would argue that you'll get a better 'education' working in the 
real world, compared to learning in University.  Well, maybe some would argue?  When I 
was still Uni about 5 years ago they were just starting to create courses that catered 
for the emergence ecommerce.  The course I was already in was a CS/Multimedia degree 
with little to no real web stuff at all.  We did do some flash and shockwave stuff but 
I was more interested in data driven applications.

I was already playing around designing websites and basic database driven PHP 
applications and I was pretty sure that I was never going to be taught about Apache, 
PHP, HTML or advanced CSS at uni.  So far (in 3rd year) we'd spent about 2 weeks on 
web site development, and that involved building a basic page in Netscape Composer of 
all things!  That said, i think the CS subjects gave me invaluable knowledge about the 
basics of programming and I'd probably be a much worse coder than I am if not for that 
basic training.  It just got to a point where I wanted to go in a direction that uni 
just wasn't gonna cater for...

Like many of my friends I got a part-time IT job to compliment my full-time uni.  
After about 3 months into 2nd year it swapped to full-time IT job (VB Programmer, 
YUCK) and part-time uni.  So 5 years later and I've got a year of full-time study left 
to finish the degree, but I definitely think that real-world IT experience is of 
greater value to employers.  I've now got about 7 years of experience plus a 66% 
completed CS degree and plenty of respect from my peers.  A lot of my uni friends who 
opted to stick out uni and get the degree are still looking for a good IT job (tech 
support for an ISP is not what I would consider a positive outcome after 4 years of 
uni).

That said, I think its a different decision for everyone.  I think the thing I have 
going for me in the real-world of IT is that I didn't just do a CS degree coz I 
couldn't decide what to do.  I did it coz I was a fricken website making, 
game-playing, warez leeching, IRC chatting NERD and I thought i'd need a degree to get 
my foot in the door.  Turns out that my enthusiasm was my most powerful weapon!

I continue to keep up with all the latest internet technologies in my own personal 
time because that's what I love.  I'm probably nothing compared to some of the guys on 
this list who are constantly pushing the boundaries and trying to invent a better 
wheel.  Basically I think if you love the internet and everything IT in general then 
ppl will notice.  You'll also be 'studying' on a daily basis, however for you it will 
be disguised as FUN!  Geez, I don't even know if I made a point here but perhaps 
something I said will help you with your decision.  Just get a job in IT first and see 
if you cut it...

Probably a little more than my $0.02...  I'm now very interested to see other members 
replies!

Mt.

 -Original Message-
 From: Gabriel Vasquez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 4:09 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [WSG] Is a degree necessary?
 
 
 Hi Everyone, I apologize if this is off topic but this is one 
 of the few
 places that I would be able to talk to web designers and get 
 their opinions
 on this.
 
 I've been attending school to get an Associates degree in 
 Digital Media. The
 program is 18 months and ranges from html to 3d graphics. I'm 
 already more
 than halfway through my courses, but I find that I hit a road 
 block; I'm not
 really learning anything. We are just now getting into 
 *basic* css, and
 javascript in dreamweaver (which I already know how to do, 
 even though I
 prefer to hand-code). The program is now focusing on 3D 
 animation but that's
 really not what I'm into at all. I just want to do web 
 design: xhtml, css,
 ECMAScript/DOM, etc. -- no more, no less. I don't feel I 
 should spend the
 money for something I'm not getting anything out of.
 
 My question to you is this: Do you think it would be wise for 
 me to finish
 the program and get the degree even though I'm not learning 
 what I want to
 be learning, or should I just call it off and focus on web design?
 
 TIA in advanced for your feedback!
 
 Gabriel
 
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RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary?

2004-05-13 Thread Miles Tillinger



Having 
the degree is one thing, but enjoying what you do is another thing 
completely. I don't think you'll find many ppl who are successful at what 
they do but totally hate doingit... If you get into an IT job before 
you finish then you'll havea headstart on everyone 
else.

  -Original Message-From: Hill, Tim 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 4:47 
  PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [WSG] Is a 
  degree necessary?
  eheheh 'before 
  computers were used in design' sounds really old sorry 
  =)
  
  I 
  think having a degree is alot better than just having a portfolio. I guess its 
  really what you put in, is what you get out. Like you could still do a degree 
  and just do the bare minimum just keeping up, not putting in any real work, 
  and then wow you have the degree but not an awful lot of experience. 3D might 
  help you out later on, or can you ask to take different subjects 
  perhaps?
  
  
  Tim 
  HillComputer 
  AssociatesGraphic Artisttel: +612 9937 
  0792fax: +612 9937 0546[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Universal 
  HeadSent: Thursday, 13 May 2004 5:01 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [WSG] Is a degree 
  necessary?
  
  Maybe you should look into design education. It sounds like the course 
  you are doing is very technology based. Of course if you want to code, that's 
  fine. But if you want to communicate visually, and understand how to present 
  information using space, type, colour, relationships etc, then that's a whole 
  different ballgame. 
  It was a long time ago, but I did four years of design education before 
  computers were used in design, and I learnt things that seemed very general at 
  the time, but I realise now were a perfect grounding for a design career. It 
  seems that courses now are so eager to get people into using Maya or learning 
  _javascript_ or whatever that they don't actually teach the basics. 
  Man, I really sound like an old fogey don't I? 
  Peter 
  On 13/05/2004, at 4:38 PM, Gabriel Vasquez wrote: 
  
Hi Everyone, I apologize if this is off topic but this is one of the 
few 
places that I would be able to talk to web designers and get their 
opinions 
on this. 
I've been attending school to get an Associates degree in Digital 
Media. The 
program is 18 months and ranges from html to 3d graphics. I'm already 
more 
than halfway through my courses, but I find that I hit a road block; 
I'm not 
really learning anything. We are just now getting into *basic* css, and 

_javascript_ in dreamweaver (which I already know how to do, even though 
I 
prefer to hand-code). The program is now focusing on 3D animation but 
that's 
really not what I'm into at all. I just want to do web design: xhtml, 
css, 
ECMAScript/DOM, etc. -- no more, no less. I don't feel I should spend 
the 
money for something I'm not getting anything out of. 
My question to you is this: Do you think it would be wise for me to 
finish 
the program and get the degree even though I'm not learning what I want 
to 
be learning, or should I just call it off and focus on web design? 

TIA in advanced for your feedback! 
Gabriel 
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* 
  
  
  Universal 
  Head 
  Design That Works. 
  7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore 
  NSW 2048 Australia 
  T (+612) 9517 1466 
  F (+612) 9565 4747 
  E [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  W www.universalhead.com 
  


RE: [WSG] centering an element

2004-05-12 Thread Miles Tillinger
and then in finding the quirksmode url I found this!

http://vmalek.murphy.cz/

Has anyone discovered any issues with this method?

 -Original Message-
 From: glenn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 11:35 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [WSG] centering an element
 
 
 i am trying to center an element in the middle of the screen using 
 css...
 when the browser resizes it moves into the new middle.
 
 with tables i simple make a table 100% height and width.
 then put a fixed width table inside it with postition set to centre
 
 i can only find info on centering columns
 
 thank you
 
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RE: [WSG] centering an element

2004-05-12 Thread Miles Tillinger
www.quirksmode.org/css/centering.html

seems that you need to use a table if you want vertical alignment that is consistent 
across recent browsers.  I haven't been able to do it without using a table either...

HTH.

 -Original Message-
 From: glenn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 11:35 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [WSG] centering an element
 
 
 i am trying to center an element in the middle of the screen using 
 css...
 when the browser resizes it moves into the new middle.
 
 with tables i simple make a table 100% height and width.
 then put a fixed width table inside it with postition set to centre
 
 i can only find info on centering columns
 
 thank you
 
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RE: [WSG] reply from ACA

2004-05-06 Thread Miles Tillinger



Seems 
like they glazed over when reading the accessibility information in your 
original email. This is all to familiar for me as there are ppl you can 
explain the benefits of standardsto 10x a day and they still forget what 
it all means by the next day... In most cases if it's a small site then 
the person maintaining it is probably not very web-savvy and probably knows 
little or nothing of the HTML/CSS that formats the site behind the scenes. 
As long as they can publish content with Frontpage then that's all they'll ever 
want...

  -Original Message-From: Universal Head 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 2:04 
  PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [WSG] reply from 
  ACA
  You all might be interested in the reply I received from the ACA in 
  response to my email. I leave it to speak for itself. 
  Peter 
  On 07/05/2004, at 2:21 PM, WebMaster wrote: 
  
Dear Mr 
Gifford, 
Pleqase accept my 
apologies for the delay in respond to your email. 
We are aware of some 
issues with the use of the ACA Website and Apple operating systemsand 
are currently working on a fix to the solution. Unfortunately this would 
appear not to be a simple solution and therefore may take some 
time. 
As I'm sure you can 
appreciate maintaining a site that renders well in all browser and operating 
systems is a constant battle for the ACA, however we do endeavour to provide 
equal access to all users. 
It may be of some 
benefit for you to access our site map at (http://www.aca.gov.au/help/sitemap.htm), which will provide you with static html links to all 
pages. 
Regards 

Sheila 
Grant 
Web 
Administrator 
Information Management 
Team 
Australian 
Communications Authority 
  
  Universal 
  Head 
  Design That Works. 
  7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore 
  NSW 2048 Australia 
  T (+612) 9517 1466 
  F (+612) 9565 4747 
  E [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  W www.universalhead.com 
  


RE: [WSG] Australian Communications Authority

2004-05-05 Thread Miles Tillinger
Three cheers for Web Standards evangelism!  Kudos for making the effort to spread the 
gospel, but I don't know if I agree with the approach.  Fair enough that you'd like to 
win the job, but the end of the email starts sounding like marketing spam.  A 
political approach might be more effective for getting them to think about it because 
the last thing any government department wants to think about is more costs and they 
could be to short-sighted to consider the long-term gains...

Just my $0.02...

Mt.

-Original Message-
From: Universal Head [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:59 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Australian Communications Authority


Just came across this thread and by coincidence I had been told about the site and 
tossed off this email to them: 


--- 
I thought I would take the time to make you aware of some problems with your website. 


The site does not communicate to Mac users at all. In Safari 2, the most common MacOSX 
browser, none of the navigation bars (left or top) appear at all. On IE5, the most 
common browser for MacOS9 users, navigating to your site brings up a page of code - no 
site. On Mozilla, a common open source browser recommended as the best browser 
available in last week's Sydney Morning Herald, the navigation also does not work. 


These problems would be serious for any website, but for the Australian Communications 
Authority I would have thought they were disastrous. 


If you are interested I can make recommendations on how to make your site standards 
compliant across the entire range of browsers, with simple xhtml and css coding. The 
Sydney Morning Herald (www.smh.com.au) and The Age (www.theage.com.au) have recently 
converted their sites to this approach, which is widely recognised as the future of 
the web. You can cut the size of your pages in half (faster site loads and less server 
demand) and make the site compatible to ALL users, not just a percentage. 


My company, Universal Head, has ten years experience in design and specialises in 
online communications. I would be happy to discuss the possibilities with you further. 


Best regards 
Peter Gifford 
--- 



On 02/05/2004, at 6:41 PM, Rob Unsworth wrote: 


An official press release from the Web Standards Group would carry more 
weight than an individual. Written by someone with better journalistic 
skills that yours truly. 


Universal Head  
Design That Works. 


7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore 
NSW 2048 Australia 
T (+612) 9517 1466 
F (+612) 9565 4747 
E [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
W www.universalhead.com 
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[WSG] Aligning two DIVs horizontally

2004-04-29 Thread Miles Tillinger
I thought this would be simple but it's making me feel a bit useless!

I'm simply trying to align two DIVs horizontally for the Search form :

http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/test.html
http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/domainname.css

The div with submit button (green border) always gets stacked vertically under the div 
with the textfield (red border) but I want it to be aligned with the textfield and 
select list.  I originally had the whole form in one div however differences in the 
size of form elements made some small pixel differences between browsers.  Pixel 
perfect isn't necessary, however I'm sure there must be a simple way to align the two 
divs!

Am I even close?

Regards,

Miles Tillinger
Web Developer
education.au limited 
178 Fullarton Road 
Dulwich SA 5065 
Ph. (08) 8334 3247 
Fax. (08) 8334 3211 
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Please visit our websites: 
http://www.edna.edu.au/ 
http://www.educationau.edu.au/ 
Building and managing online information services and knowledge networks 

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RE: [WSG] Aligning two DIVs horizontally

2004-04-29 Thread Miles Tillinger
I've tried floating them both left, both right, one left/one right, and in all cases 
the right div drops down a line.

 -Original Message-
 From: Hill, Tim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 11:06 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: [WSG] Aligning two DIVs horizontally
 
 
 Could you float both perhaps? Or would that not work?
 The divs would need to be the same height I guess though.
 
 
 Tim Hill
 Computer Associates
 Graphic Artist
 tel: +612 9937 0792
 fax: +612 9937 0546
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Miles Tillinger
 Sent: Friday, 30 April 2004 11:24 AM
 To: Web Standards Group (E-mail)
 Subject: [WSG] Aligning two DIVs horizontally
 
 I thought this would be simple but it's making me feel a bit useless!
 
 I'm simply trying to align two DIVs horizontally for the Search form :
 
 http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/test.html
 http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/domainname.css
 
 The div with submit button (green border) always gets stacked 
 vertically
 under the div with the textfield (red border) but I want it to be
 aligned with the textfield and select list.  I originally had 
 the whole
 form in one div however differences in the size of form elements made
 some small pixel differences between browsers.  Pixel perfect isn't
 necessary, however I'm sure there must be a simple way to 
 align the two
 divs!
 
 Am I even close?
 
 Regards,
 
 Miles Tillinger
 Web Developer
 education.au limited
 178 Fullarton Road
 Dulwich SA 5065
 Ph. (08) 8334 3247
 Fax. (08) 8334 3211
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Please visit our websites: 
 http://www.edna.edu.au/
 http://www.educationau.edu.au/
 Building and managing online information services and 
 knowledge networks
 
 
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RE: [WSG] Aligning two DIVs horizontally

2004-04-29 Thread Miles Tillinger
Its now lined up ok and I increased the size of the submit image to fill the space.  
Looks ok in IE as well, until I stuff something else further down the page...

Thanks Tim and Lachlan for the advice :)

Miles.

 -Original Message-
 From: Lachlan Hardy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 12:16 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Aligning two DIVs horizontally
 
 
  I thought this would be simple but it's making me feel a bit useless!
 
  I'm simply trying to align two DIVs horizontally for the 
 Search form :
 
  http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/test.html
  http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/domainname.css
 
  The div with submit button (green border) always gets stacked
  vertically
  under the div with the textfield (red border) but I want it to be
  aligned with the textfield and select list.  I originally had
  the whole
  form in one div however differences in the size of form 
 elements made
  some small pixel differences between browsers.  Pixel perfect isn't
  necessary, however I'm sure there must be a simple way to
  align the two
  divs!
 
  Am I even close?
 
 
 Yep. Basically, just remove the margin and float #field
 
 #field {
  margin: 0;
  padding: 0;
  float:left;
  border: 1px solid #F00;
  height: 25px;
 }
 
 #submit {
  margin: 0;
  padding: 0;
  float:right;
  border: 1px solid #0F0;
 height: 25px;
 }
 
 As suggested by Tim Hall, I also made the divs the same 
 height. Then all you
 need to do is centre your #submit image vertically (I didn't 
 bother messing
 with your HTML, but you can obviously do that fairly easily)
 
 And, because floating both divs removes them from the 
 document flow, you
 need to add some height to your #search div
 
 #search {
  background: url(images/search_bar_bg.gif) #009A00 repeat-y 
 top left;
  margin: 0;
  padding: 14px 0 14px 40px;
 height: 30px;
 }
 
 My fiddling was done via the EditCSS plug-in for Firefox, so 
 results may
 differ for other browsers
 
 Cheers,
 Lachlan
 
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RE: [WSG] Org Charts

2004-04-29 Thread Miles Tillinger
It might be difficult and ultimately an unwieldy waste of effort, however charts 
aren't really a picture.  The objects are visually simple being either boxes or lines. 
 I guess that's why I'm trying to style HTML generated from XML topic maps and XSLT, 
but the output gets so complicated that it's as inaccessible as flash anyway.  Just 
thinking about it makes my brain hurt...

Mt.

 -Original Message-
 From: Geoff Bowers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 12:27 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Org Charts
 
 
 Miles Tillinger wrote:
  How well does the solution degrade for older browser and screen
  readers?  I'm trying to come up with a topic mapping solution that
  degrades nicely.  It's to replace an existing Flash-based topic
  structure, however solutions seem to be just as 
 inaccessible as Flash
  anyway?  The difficult bit to represent is the lines linking the
  objects.  If I could represent it all in text it'd be no problems,
  but that seems to be a distant dream...
 
 I think older browser and screen readers are not relevant in this 
 context.  Organisation charts are by their very nature 
 data-visualisations.  I think the age old adage, a picture tells a 
 thousand words is the very definition of the problem represented.
 
 -- geoff
 http://www.daemon.com.au/
 
 
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[WSG] IE mystery whitespace

2004-04-29 Thread Miles Tillinger
I've found a few references to mystery whitespace in IE but they're all related to 
space above and below elements.  I've got mystery whitespace on the left of an element.

In exhibit A in IE, the image (blue border) has a 3px gap on the left between it and 
the paragraph (red border).
Firefox has no gap.

In exhibit B I've removed the left paragraph (solid grey border) and the 3px gap is 
gone.  I can't work out where the mystery space is coming from?  I've tried removing 
whitespace in the HTML but that didn't help.  

http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/test.html
http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/domainname.css

Any ideas how I can get IE to play nice?

Mt.
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[WSG] Browser testing across Windows OS's

2004-04-16 Thread Miles Tillinger
Hi all,

I'm working on improving the site testing procedures here at work.  I'm trying to 
gauge the need to test browsers on the different Windows (and other) OS's.   I'm using 
the standalone IE's under Windows XP and I'm wondering if the IE5.5 standalone is 
behaving exactly the same as an integrated IE5.5 installation on Windows 2000, ME or 
98(SE)?  E.g. Are there any HTML, Javascript or CSS bugs that are present in IE5.5 
Win2k, but not IE5.5 WinXP?  Same question for Netscape, Mozilla and other browsers.  
Are they mostly identical across the various OS's they support?

Evolt.org's testing chart only includes Windows, not the individual versions 
(http://evolt.org/article/Browser_testing_list/20/548/index.html looks rather old).  
Nor does it talk about different versions of MacOS.  Do WSG members consider this 
sufficient testing strategy?  I understand this is probably going to be very different 
from one organisation to another but there has to be a baseline at least!

I'm keen to hear some opinions and get some good resources on this to hopefully get an 
idea of how far I need to take our testing strategy.

Thanks in advance,

Miles.
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RE: [WSG] best method for columns inside a column

2004-03-30 Thread Miles Tillinger
 On Tuesday, March 30, 2004, at 03:57  PM, Miles Tillinger wrote:
 
  I've managed to get it basically perfect in IE6, but there is small 
  2-3 pixel discrepancy in Mozilla and Opera (haven't had a chance to 
  check on Safari yet *shudder*) down the left side of the 
 right column. 
   I'm guessing that its to do with how I've made the columns 
 inside a 
  column layout, but I can't work out a better way to do it.
 
 You're worried about 2-3 pixels?  I wouldn't be, unless it 
 looks awful, 
 just aim for close and visually balanced rather than pixel 
 perfect.

I agree and I'm happy with where it's at now.  It definitely doesn't look awful, in 
fact a few ppl that've seen the site didn't notice it, although they aren't hunting 
for it like we would!

 
 Furthermore, I'd suggest that Safari, Mozilla, Opera et al are 
 correct and IE is 2-3 pixels out, not the other way around :)

Yeah it's certainly IE that is being silly as I've measured the pixels.

 
 FWIW, it renders the same in Safari and Opera 7.5Beta on Mac OS X.

Thanks for the OSX check, that makes me feel better!
 
 
  Is what I am trying to do not suited to CSS positioning?  
 Or is there 
  a better way to do it?
 
 Seems perfect to me -- you should be able to almost achieve 
 everything 
 (and then some) with CSS layout that you used to with tables, 
 with the 
 exception of tabular data, which should remain in tables.

MT.

 
 ---
 Justin French
 http://indent.com.au
 
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RE: [WSG] best method for columns inside a column

2004-03-30 Thread Miles Tillinger
 
 Sorry no answer to the problem... But your services div has a margin
 left of 197 and your splitter one has a margin left of 200. 
 The splitter
 seems to be pushing out as well in ie5.0, im not sure why that is.
 Probably the width of the feature or services div becomes 
 smaller in ie5
 and so its out of whack. 

That was the smoking ears problem I had, trying to make small changes to pixel values 
to get it to line up in different browsers.  I will take a look at the IE5 issue.

 
 Also with regards to your box model hacks, if you haven't 
 used a left or
 right padding/margin, ie5 and 6 should read the width as the same non?
 So no need to use the hack? Or does ie5 put some stupid 2 
 pixel space in
 for some reason?

I think the hacks were in there from the layout-o-matic template.  I'm yet to try 
removing them.

 
 How come you decided to use float and abosolute positioning? I would
 have thought to only use one or the other, not together. It is sitting
 within the main div already so would float: right take care of the
 positioning using a specific margin and width? Or does it break the
 layout?

When I first tried that method it worked ok but removing the float right broke the 
layout.  However it changed a fair bit after that so working backwards a bit may help 
solve the problem.

 
 Site looks awesome btw, shadows are nicely done imo.

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll try them out :)

MT.

 
 
 Tim Hill
 Computer Associates
 Graphic Artist
 tel: +612 9937 0792
 fax: +612 9937 0546
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Miles Tillinger
 Sent: Tuesday, 30 March 2004 3:57 PM
 To: Web Standards Group (E-mail)
 Subject: [WSG] best method for columns inside a column
 
 Finally a chance for my first attempt at a 100% CSS 
 positioning site and
 besides using the deprecated align parameter for an input:image, the
 site validates ok!
 
 http://streetdaddy.gotdns.com/astute/index.html
 http://streetdaddy.gotdns.com/astute/main.css
 http://streetdaddy.gotdns.com/astute/astute.css
 
 (sorry if the dyndns is borked, try 150.101.34.189 
 temporarily if it is)
 
 Its a simple header  two-columns  footer layout based on a
 layout-o-matic template.  I then use absolute positioning to float the
 #feature div to the right of the #services div, however the 
 correct top
  left values seem to differ between IE and Mozilla/Opera.
 
 I've managed to get it basically perfect in IE6, but there is 
 small 2-3
 pixel discrepancy in Mozilla and Opera (haven't had a chance 
 to check on
 Safari yet *shudder*) down the left side of the right column.  I'm
 guessing that its to do with how I've made the columns inside a column
 layout, but I can't work out a better way to do it.
 
 Is what I am trying to do not suited to CSS positioning?  Or 
 is there a
 better way to do it?
 
 Cheers,
 
 MT
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[WSG] [OT] Outlook error: Can't open this item. Your Digital ID name ... etc

2004-03-29 Thread Miles Tillinger
Firstly, apologies for the OT repost and I'm not even sure if anyone else worries 
about this, but...

First list member I started having the problem with was Mark Stanton back in January, 
now James Silva and Gary Greer as well (and another one-off from Dominique something 
or other).  I'm using MS Outlook 2000 SP3 on XP Pro.  I can't open the above member's 
emails to the list, I get the following error:

'Can't open this item.  Your Digital ID name can not be found by the underlying 
security system'

I know from this previous reply:

http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg01806.html

that others on the list are having the same problem.  I can understand completely that 
the guys will occasionally neglect to remove the sig that causes the problem, so is 
there anything I can do at my end so I don't have to ponder what wonderfully 
enlightening web standards conversations I'm missing out on?  ;)

Cheers,

MT 

 error.GIF 
attachment: error.GIF

[WSG] best method for columns inside a column

2004-03-29 Thread Miles Tillinger
Finally a chance for my first attempt at a 100% CSS positioning site and besides using 
the deprecated align parameter for an input:image, the site validates ok!

http://streetdaddy.gotdns.com/astute/index.html
http://streetdaddy.gotdns.com/astute/main.css
http://streetdaddy.gotdns.com/astute/astute.css

(sorry if the dyndns is borked, try 150.101.34.189 temporarily if it is)

Its a simple header  two-columns  footer layout based on a layout-o-matic template.  
I then use absolute positioning to float the #feature div to the right of the 
#services div, however the correct top  left values seem to differ between IE and 
Mozilla/Opera.

I've managed to get it basically perfect in IE6, but there is small 2-3 pixel 
discrepancy in Mozilla and Opera (haven't had a chance to check on Safari yet 
*shudder*) down the left side of the right column.  I'm guessing that its to do with 
how I've made the columns inside a column layout, but I can't work out a better way to 
do it.

Is what I am trying to do not suited to CSS positioning?  Or is there a better way to 
do it?

Cheers,

MT
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RE: [WSG] New site - looking for feedback

2004-03-29 Thread Miles Tillinger
Very nice indeed James, thanks for passing me the links otherwise I would've missed 
out on seeing it...

The first word bold, second word normal thing seems to be gaining momentum amongst the 
various CSS sites I've seen lately, understandably as it is a nice effect for titles.

The first thing I though was 'oooh, how did he get the Go buttons to align so nicely 
with the form fields?', coz I had been trying to do it without resorting to a table or 
the deprecated align=absmiddle parameter.  Then I realised you're using images which 
gets around the problem, however this will eventually become an accessibility issue as 
the only way to submit the forms will be via href=javascript:submit() on the image, 
no good for screen readers.  As soon as you replace the img with input type=image 
I'm pretty sure you'll have the same alignment issues I had.  If anyone knows of a 
solution for this I'd love to know!

That's that only thing I could find in what is an aesthetically pleasing design that 
is a credit to the WSG.  Maybe it's time for a WSG Member's portfolio?

MT.


-Original Message-
From: Ben Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:53 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] New site - looking for feedback


pretty slick, I like it..

- with a few little coding tweaks you could probably eliminate most of 
your CSS IE width hacks.
- Rollover colours on top nav could have more contrast - difficult to 
read dark on dark..
- It seems weird to me that the underline disappears on mouseover of 
regular links..

well done.

B
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RE: [WSG] New CSS site

2004-03-11 Thread Miles Tillinger



Nice 
one yetagain Peter! All of your recent sites have been a pleasure to 
look at and the simple yet beautiful designs are the perfect partner for 
table-less layouts...

Miles.

  -Original Message-From: Universal Head 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:20 
  AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [WSG] New CSS 
  site
  Hi all 
  Just about to be officially announced, my new fully CSS/XHTML 1.0 Trans 
  site, and the smoothest experience I've had with css so far: 
  http://www.cinema4duser.com 
  Comments and crits most welcome. 
  Peter 
  
  Universal 
  Head 
  Design That Works. 
  7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore 
  NSW 2048 Australia 
  T (+612) 9517 1466 
  F (+612) 9565 4747 
  E [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  W www.universalhead.com 
  


RE: [WSG] SimpleBits ripped - is this for real?

2004-03-04 Thread Miles Tillinger

yeah that is just ridiculously blatant and so comical with his copyright notices at 
the bottom!  No 'permission given' information anywhere, be it the About page or at 
least some commenting in the HTML or CSS!

I can accept that sometimes designers see a CSS layout that they want to base their 
site on, probably because I personally borrowed heavily from someones zengarden entry 
that I really really liked the look of, but I asked permission before I even started 
on it and even then you'd barely recognise it from the original.  I just wanted to use 
it as a good starting point to work from and it taught me a lot of little tricks that 
I had no idea about!

But ranada.com is just a blatant attempt at making him/her self look like some kind of 
uber-css wizard by completely copying someone elses design!  Times like these I think 
a site hacking is an acceptable option...

M.

-Original Message-
From: Chris Blown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 11:28 AM
To: WSG
Subject: [WSG] SimpleBits ripped - is this for real?



I cannot not believe this.. How can someone be so dumb and lazy to do
such a blatant rip off. Is this for real?

I just had to post this, it boils my blood to see this sort of thing!

http://www.simplebits.com/

http://ranada.com/home.xhtml

Cheers
Chris Blown
http://hinterlands.com.au

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RE: [WSG] Nicely styled Hx tags

2004-03-02 Thread Miles Tillinger



For 
the ultimate in accessibility, all websites should include a 
1800-human-screen-reader option...

  -Original Message-From: Universal Head 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 3:26 
  PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [WSG] Nicely 
  styled Hx tags
  The question is, how do we provide accessible websites for those with 
  images, text, and indeed their computer switched off?? 
  ;) It's been a long afternoon, 
  Peter 
  On 03/03/2004, at 3:23 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
  
Fahrner Image Replacement is all 
well and good, but does anyone have any pointers to using a similar method 
that will work (ie: display replacement text) for users with images turned 
off? 
  
  Universal 
  Head 
  Design That Works. 
  7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore 
  NSW 2048 Australia 
  T (+612) 9517 1466 
  F (+612) 9565 4747 
  E [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  W www.universalhead.com 
  


RE: [WSG] Table style definition lists

2004-03-01 Thread Miles Tillinger

That's kinda risky though if the content is dynamic because one long line could break 
the layout.  I try to avoid using nowrap's or non-breaking spaces wherever possible. 
Just my $0.02...

MT

-Original Message-
From: James Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 4:05 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Table style definition lists



off the top of my head

white-space :pre; /* possibly nowrap or whatever the other one is */

on the long term 1 will force it to be rendered in a line - I use this 
when I don't want lines broken.

Cheers
James

Mark Stanton wrote:

Hey All

If anyone has a few minutes and a couple of spare brain cells I'd appreciate
some help with a definition list problem in IE6.

I guess the reference point is Russ's demo at:
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/definition/dl-table-display.html.
The example works fine unless you end up with two lines of text on the left
hand side - then things go pear shaped.

------
Term 1 Def 1
------
Term 2 Def 2
------
Term 3 Def 3
------

That's all fine but in IE6 you can end up with the following when you have a
long term.

------
Long Term  Def 1
1  ---
---Def 2
Term 2 ---
---Def 3
Term 3 ---
---

Does anyone have any ideas of how this can be fixed up. I'd imagine having a
clear:both on the dt would clear things up but it doesn't. Looks great in
Firefox though :)


Cheers

Mark


--
Mark Stanton 
Technical Director 
Gruden Pty Ltd 
Tel: 9956 6388
Mob: 0410 458 201 
Fax: 9956 8433 
http://www.gruden.com 

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RE: [WSG] more usable forms

2004-01-22 Thread Miles Tillinger

My current job has a big responsibility to ensure Priority 1, 2 and in some cases 3 
levels are satisfied.  Accessible forms are especially cool coz you can click a label 
to give focus to its corresponding form element, just like a good GUI should ;)

MT.

-Original Message-
From: Mark Stanton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 1:52 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] more usable forms



Hey Andrew

You may also be interested in the accessible form demo presented to the
Sydney group by Roger Hudson -
http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/documents/doc_5_accessform.html.

There are a few other links to stuff he discussed that night at -
http://webstandardsgroup.org/go/resourcecat15.cfm.

Lastly Dive into Accessibility goes into a bit more detail about label -
http://diveintoaccessibility.org/day_28_labeling_form_elements.html


Cheers

Mark


--
Mark Stanton
Technical Director
Gruden Pty Ltd
Tel: 9956 6388
Mob: 0410 458 201
Fax: 9956 8433
http://www.gruden.com

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[WSG] OT: damn I feel old

2004-01-18 Thread Miles Tillinger

There is really no other way of finding this out other than posting to the list, so 
here goes some OT goodness:

A couple of 'youngsters' posted today, one 17 (from Plone.org) and one 16, both must 
be pretty competent web designers from the links they've posted, especially Plone, i 
love what they do!   Made me feel a bit long in the tooth at 27, so I started 
wondering how old you gurus are?  Would be good to get an idea of where we sit 
demographically...

p.s. if you don't want to post your age on the list, feel free to email me direct if 
you really want to be part of my little survey...

Regards,

Miles.

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RE: [WSG] OT: damn I feel old

2004-01-18 Thread Miles Tillinger

Hi Gary,

Actually that would've been a much better way to ask the question without actually 
asking an OT subject...

e.g. Please check out this CSS layout at http://blah.com, and while ur there why not 
submit your age...

So much for my creative thinking!

MT.

-Original Message-
From: Gary Menzel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 3:53 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] OT: damn I feel old



 p.s. if you don't want to post your age on the list, feel free to email 
me direct if you really want to be part of my little survey...

Write a website app for it ;)

Gary Menzel
Web Development Manager
IT Operations Brisbane -+- ABN AMRO Morgans Limited
Level 29, 123 Eagle Street BRISBANE QLD 4000
PH: 07 333 44 828  FX:  07 3834 0828



If this communication is not intended for you and you are not an authorised recipient 
of this email you are prohibited by law from dealing with or relying on the email or 
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contact ABN AMRO Morgans Limited immediately by returning the email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and destroy the original. We will refund any reasonable costs associated 
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RE: [WSG] big trouble...still!

2004-01-14 Thread Miles Tillinger

If the css is in a linked file, change the filename to prevent users getting the 
cached version.

-Original Message-
From: Chris Blown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 1:34 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] big trouble...still!



This may be a caching issue. I tried it here and its OK on IE v6

ChrisB

On Thu, 2004-01-15 at 13:38, stuart wrote:
 Received and e-mail today regarding the unexpected crashing of this 
 page *still*
 http://www.weddingphotography.com.au/prices/index.htm
 


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RE: [WSG] Subject headings (was: ?)

2004-01-12 Thread Miles Tillinger

oh man, I'm such a luser!  Good stuff though, at least now I understand why I get 
ignored a lot...

mt.

-Original Message-
From: Ben Bishop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 1:45 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Subject headings (was: ?)



Taco Fleur wrote:

 I am having a bit of a blond day, so blond I can't even think of a 
 subject for this email.


Hi Taco,

If you're stuck for a subject header, this great resource, found by 
following links from a recently posted link by Mark Stanton, has a good 
section on writing effective, meaningful and specific subject headers.

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Regards,
Ben


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RE: [WSG] Small bug

2004-01-05 Thread Miles Tillinger
Title: Small bug



The 
confidentiality issue would be a problem for many ppl who want help on this 
list. But its a bit of an annoyance to strip all the identifying logo's 
and text from a design so I can safely post the URL to this 
list...

  -Original Message-From: Universal Head 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 
  11:08 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [WSG] 
  Small bug
  A small bug I can't seem to track down:
  
  http://universalhead.com/clients/jands/
  
  There's padding around the nav links that only appears in Mozilla and I 
  can't seem to work out why ...
  
  Much obliged y'all. Hey, and work in progress exhibited on this list is 
  confidential, right?
  
  Peter-- 

  peter gifforduniversal 
  head design that 
  worksvisit 7/43 bridge 
  road stanmore nsw 
  2048 
  australiacall (+612) 9517 
  1466fax (+612) 9565 
  4747email 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]site 
  www.universalhead.com


[WSG] Hiding LEGEND in Netscape 4

2003-12-14 Thread Miles Tillinger

I'm developing an accessible form template that uses fieldsets.  I'm hiding the legend 
using display:none so it doesn't appear, which keeps the form accessible.  Problem is 
that the legend still displays in Netscape 4, but I thought display:none was supported?

e.g.

legend class=legDefaultTitle/legend

class is

legDefault { default: none; }

Any ideas why this wouldn't work in NS4?

Cheers,

Miles.

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RE: [WSG] Hiding LEGEND in Netscape 4

2003-12-14 Thread Miles Tillinger

before you say it, yes, i did actually use a . in the declaration, e.g.

legDefault { default: none; }

-Original Message-
From: Miles Tillinger 
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 12:42 PM
To: Web Standards Group (E-mail)
Subject: [WSG] Hiding LEGEND in Netscape 4



I'm developing an accessible form template that uses fieldsets.  I'm hiding the legend 
using display:none so it doesn't appear, which keeps the form accessible.  Problem is 
that the legend still displays in Netscape 4, but I thought display:none was supported?

e.g.

legend class=legDefaultTitle/legend

class is

legDefault { default: none; }

Any ideas why this wouldn't work in NS4?

Cheers,

Miles.

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RE: [WSG] Hiding LEGEND in Netscape 4

2003-12-14 Thread Miles Tillinger

DOH, I did a fantastic job of writing this email!  Let me try again:

legend class=legDefaultTitle/legend

legDefault { display: none; }

This works fine in IE4+ and Mozilla flavours.  But not NS4...

-Original Message-
From: russ weakley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 12:45 PM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: Re: [WSG] Hiding LEGEND in Netscape 4


Try:
display: none;



 
 I'm developing an accessible form template that uses fieldsets.  I'm hiding
 the legend using display:none so it doesn't appear, which keeps the form
 accessible.  Problem is that the legend still displays in Netscape 4, but I
 thought display:none was supported?
 
 e.g.
 
 legend class=legDefaultTitle/legend
 
 class is
 
 legDefault { default: none; }
 
 Any ideas why this wouldn't work in NS4?
 
 Cheers,
 
 Miles.
 
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Thanks
Russ

---
Russ Weakley
Max Design
Phone: (02) 9410 2521
Mobile: 0403 433 980
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.maxdesign.com.au
---


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RE: [WSG] OT: Opening documents in _blank window

2003-12-11 Thread Miles Tillinger

I don't suppose we're actually 'serving' the PDF or DOC as such, in that we only link 
to the file.  As we have no control over the header of the file, the user's OS will 
handle it however it is configured to.  Herein lies the problem...

-Original Message-
From: Bradley Wright [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 9:06 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] OT: Opening documents in _blank window



Miles,

Generally when serving PDF type document at my place of work, we serve 
them using a custom HTTP header:

header( content-disposition: inline );

(that's the PHP way to do it).

This works for us because we serve most of our documents as BLOBs from 
the database. If you're not doing that, I'm not sure my help will be 
any... help.

Be careful with this one, it seems to work pretty well in IE, but other 
browsers ignore it. Then again, other browsers generally behave better 
with attachments/mime-types in general.

Miles Tillinger wrote:

Just a question about how other developers handle opening documents e.g. PDF, DOC, in 
a new window.

At the moment I am using _blank targets.

Scenario 1: User is using IE with Word configured to open inside the IE window.  When 
the user clicks on a link to the Word doc a new IE window opens and the doc is loaded 
in that window.

Scenario 2: User is using IE or another browser, but is configured to open Word doc's 
in Word, not in the Browser window.  When the user clicks on a link to the Word doc a 
new Browser window open and the user either prompted to Save or Open the doc, or may 
even open the doc in Word automatically if the user has previously selected that 
option.  The problem here is that the user is left with a blank Browser window.

So Scenario 1 is how I'd like it to behave in every case, but is this possible?  
Since I have no way of knowing how the user has their system configured I don't know 
whether to offer the link with a _blank target or not?  Is there an accessible 
standard way of doing it?

Regards,

Miles

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RE: [WSG] Fixed Width Design

2003-12-11 Thread Miles Tillinger

If I had a dollar for everytime that I had given some a www-less URL verbally and 
they've just entered www. blah out of habit, I'd be a millionaire!

Ubergeek:
Ok, enter the URL 'news.google.com'

N00b:
[enters www.news.google.com]

Ubergeek:
No, no no, no WWW!

N00b:
news.google.com, without www?  wow, does that work?  That's amazing!  How about the 
http://?  I can leave it out?  OMG!

-Original Message-
From: Jonathan Baldwin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:12 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Fixed Width Design



I agree. I've long advocated easy to remember URLs because, although 
most of us do as Gary says and get URLs directly from email, I've 
observed that a *lot* of users don't know that they can copy URLs from 
the browser so type them out when passing them on, or do it verbally, 
so it is important to have easy to remember URLs and to ensure that 
content is easily accessible from the top of the site. An easy to type 
URL is more likely to be passed on by people e.g. saying something 
like:  I saw a great article at zeldman dot com, just go to the 
'articles' section and look for 'standards'  is, in my experience, how 
most people pass on URLs...

On a related note, when will people stop saying dot and slash? 
Can't we move forward and instead of announcers after TV programmes 
saying wwwDOTbbcDOTcoDOTukDORWARDSLASHeastenders just www (very short 
pause) bbc (very short pause)co(very short pause)uk slash eastenders, 
using the punctuation like puncttuation. Wouldn't that work if it were 
adopted as a convention? It's make URLs easy to remember.(in fact we 
could drop the www like we dropped the httpcolonslashslash

See Malcom Gladwell's Tipping Point for an excellent discussion of 
The Stickiness Factor - there are lessons throughout the whole book 
for designers and web site creators.


On 11 Dec 2003, at 23:37, Taco Fleur wrote:

 http://www.notestips.com/articles/2003/1/ or 
 http://www.notestips.com/articles/limitPageWidth
 Would have been better.

 Is this something for Standards or out of scope?

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RE: [WSG] Re: px em pt ???

2003-12-09 Thread Miles Tillinger

I definitely agree that relative sized fonts provide a more accessible design but I 
wonder about how sight-impaired users themselves use the web and their PC's in 
general?  For instance, my grandfather has coke-bottle-thickness glasses and as such 
uses a 19 monitor in 800x600 resolution, which seems ridiculous to me with my 20/20 
vision.  However for him it is perfect and when he reads websites he doesn't have to 
adjust the font size because it is already fine for him based on the fact that his 
interface is already configured to be large in all respects.

I doubt there would be site-impaired users who use 1280x1024 resolution for Windows 
and just increase the font-size in their browser.  In fact I would guess that they 
would, like my grandfather, already have their interface appearance tweaked the way 
thay want and therefore their browser would inherit the same appearance.

Just my $0.02...

Miles.


-Original Message-
From: Cameron Adams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 1:49 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] Re: px em pt ???



That article gives the worst advice I've seen.

Basically, they're saying that if someone wants to
resize the text on your web page, you shouldn't allow
them to because it will break your site, making it
illegible.

If a user wants to resize the text on your site, it is
because it is illegible to them in the first place;
increasing font size can only improve matters.  Better
that it breaks your design and they're able to see the
content, rather than them not being able to see it at
all.

By using px units, you lock many users into exactly
the font size specified (some browsers can resize px,
but not IE).  Using a relative unit, such as em or %
(I use em), allows users to resize text so they can
ACTUALLY SEE IT.  If you ask any reasonably
usability-oriented designer they will tell you to use
relative units (www.stopdesign.com | www.zeldman.com),
and to code your web page structure to allow for
variable text sizes.

Hope this helps (and it didn't seem like I was yelling
at you), 
--
Cameron Adams

W: www.themaninblue.com


In reply to:

(aayyy, my third post today?) 

I'd like to see what all of yours opinion is on what
to use for sizes, I have always been a believer to
stick to pixels, because that is the only size that to
me sounds as something that is not platform/OS bound.

Anyway, I also found the following article to back
this up, who wants to break it down? 
 
Using CSS (cascading style sheets) makes it easy to
specify font sizes, but before you set a font size you
should be aware that it could change the layout of
your site considerably. Different browsers interpret
font sizes differently, so a font that appears
readable in Microsoft Internet Explorer may be smaller
when viewed in Netscape. In addition, font sizes on
Windows systems are not always the same as they are on
other platforms. Your site may look great to Windows
users, but it may be illegible to those using a Mac.

There is much controversy in relationship to font-size
specifications. Our advice is the same as the majority
of long-time designers. When you specify a font size,
specify it in pixels (px) not points (pt) or em. Using
a pt or em font-size property instead of px allows for
your site text to be resized according to the viewer's
system settings. If their system is set to view very
large text, your web site's layout will become
distorted and your web site may be illegible to them.

Also, be very careful not to set your font-size pixels
too small. Some folks may not be able to read tiny
text and adjusting their system text size will have no
effect on your site because your font-size is
specified as px. There truly is a happy medium in any
situation and the font-size (ie. 12px) will vary
depending on the font-family (ie. Arial, Times New
Roman, etc.) you use. 

__
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
http://photos.yahoo.com/
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RE: [WSG] Re: px em pt ???

2003-12-09 Thread Miles Tillinger

touché Mark ;)  It is a problem that Windows buries its accessibility options so deep. 
 I think it would be better that he could walk into a net cafe and be able to easily 
changes the OS font-size.  However since this isn't the case, the ability to change it 
in the browser IS the next best thing...

Personally I am not going to use anything but relative font sizes in future site 
design, however I think it can be a steep learning curve for an amateur web designer 
when pixel sizes seem to be consistent in all browsers and so much simpler to use.

-Original Message-
From: Mark Stanton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 2:19 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] Re: px em pt ???



I get your point Miles - but why should your grandfather NOT be able to walk
into an internet cafe and use the 15 monitor at 1024x768 with IE 5 on it?
Accessibility means removing as many obstacles as possible.


Cheers

Mark


--
Mark Stanton
Technical Director
Gruden Pty Ltd
Tel: 9956 6388
Mob: 0410 458 201
Fax: 9956 8433
http://www.gruden.com

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RE: [WSG] A Little CSS Help

2003-12-03 Thread Miles Tillinger



more 
here...

http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/fonts.html#generic-font-families

  -Original Message-From: Chris Stratford 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 
  5:28 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [WSG] A 
  Little CSS Help
  
  Hey 
  Everyone!
  
  Well I have been soldering on 
  with my first attempt at a fully CSS powered website.
  I have the total layout setup: 
  www.neester.com/index2.php
  The only thing bugging me is 
  this error:
  
  Line : 0 font-family: You are 
  encouraged to offer a generic family as a last 
  alternative
  
  How do I fix 
  that?
  I dont know what it means, how 
  does one offer a generic family?
  
  Thanks in 
  advance!
  
  
   Chris 
  Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.neester.com 
  
  


RE: [WSG] IE whitespace issues

2003-11-18 Thread Miles Tillinger

From an earlier post ('[WSG] relative positioning of nested lists') that sounds 
similar problem:

The extra linebreak vanishes if you specify padding-bottom or border-bottom.

HTH.

-Original Message-
From: James Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 2:42 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] IE whitespace issues



Hi all

I'm beating my head against a wall about this one... IE 5.5 and 6 is 
putting in some mystery whitespace (looks like about 8-10 pixels - a 
line) after a horizontal navigation list. This hor. list has a nested 
list holding some text within it.

The UL tag is contained in a div - the bottom whitespace is in between 
the bottom of the ul and the bottom of the div.

This occurs when I set the  width of the list to a fixed value (% or 
px). When I set to auto the issue  disappears but then when I roll over 
a link in the list (a) the content block (a div) below the list moves 
down the page one line at a time!!! - no javascript involved :D

Has anyone seen or knows of a fix for this (I've tried everything I know.)

Cheers
James

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RE: [WSG] Re: html encryption tool

2003-11-13 Thread Miles Tillinger

Actually, its even BETTER than that!

Its a 'feature':

http://www.mtopsoft.com/
Dec 28, 2003, Encrypt HTML Pro V2.1 Released:
Encrypt and protect your web source code, including HTML source code, JavaScript, 
VBScript, text, links and graphics, from being viewed and reused by others.
..
Disable opera users.  
..

Wow!

-Original Message-
From: Irapuan Martinez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 8:33 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] Re: html encryption tool



At 17:25 13/11/2003 +1100, Hill, Tim wrote:
Does anyone know how this would work? It encrypts the source code so you 
can view it but it is encrypted.
http://www.mtopsoft.com/encrypt-html-pro/index.htm

In on line demo (http://www.mtopsoft.com/encrypt-html-pro/example.htm), appear:

 This web page does not support Opera

Crap IE tecnology proprietary.



  Irapuan Martinez .__
 http://www.hypergraph.com.br

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RE: [WSG] Re: html encryption tool

2003-11-13 Thread Miles Tillinger
No joke!

http://www.mtopsoft.com/, scroll down to the 'News', 'Disable opera users' is fourth 
from the bottom... In fact BOTH of their products news items are listed as 28/12/03 
(good spot!)  I've even taken a ss for any non-believers...

Miles.

-Original Message-
From: James Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 9:30 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Re: html encryption tool




You're joking aren't you? Couldn't find that reference on their site


Miles Tillinger wrote:

..
Disable opera users.  
..

  


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attachment: mtopsoft.gif

RE: [WSG] Preparing for DOCTYPE

2003-11-13 Thread Miles Tillinger

The live version is www.edna.edu.au, but this currently has no DOCTYPE.  However I am 
testing different DOCTYPEs internally on a version of the site templates that have had 
a lot of issues fixed.

I have been instructed to apply as many Priority 1 and 2 accessibility requirements as 
possible, and let me tell you it's not going to be easy as the site design seems as 
though it was built for eye candy rather than usability!  However I'd like to try and 
at least get the existing design somewhat accessible before I convince them a redesign 
is a good idea...

Miles.

-Original Message-
From: Mark Stanton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 10:51 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] Preparing for DOCTYPE



Post a link to the list!


Cheers

Mark


--
Mark Stanton 
Technical Director 
Gruden Pty Ltd 
Tel: 9956 6388
Mob: 0410 458 201 
Fax: 9956 8433 
http://www.gruden.com
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RE: [WSG] Preparing for DOCTYPE

2003-11-13 Thread Miles Tillinger

One of the problems that is really annoying is the font-size.  With a DOCTYPE the text 
shrinks to an unreadable size.  From looking around at other good examples of 
accessible sites it seems that some use em's, and some use a mixture of px and % 
values.  The current css for the site is a jumble of %'s and font sizes vary across 
different browsers.

-Original Message-
From: russ weakley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 11:23 AM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: Re: [WSG] Preparing for DOCTYPE


Miles,

I'd start with a safe option and go for HTML 4.01 transitional. It is easy
to achieve and reliable. We've discussed XHTML doctypes and the issues at
length on the list recently so no point going over that.

I did a quick site validation forcing character encoding (also missing) and
setting it to HTML 4.01:
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.edna.edu.au%2Fedna%2Fpage
1.htmlcharset=iso-8859-1+%28Western+Europe%29doctype=HTML+4.01+Transitiona
l
While the errors look daunting, there is a lot of global replacing that
could solve a chunk of this stuff.

There is a small article that may help on getting your site valid here:
http://webboy.net/presentation/validation.cfm

Russ


 
 The live version is www.edna.edu.au, but this currently has no DOCTYPE.
 However I am testing different DOCTYPEs internally on a version of the site
 templates that have had a lot of issues fixed.
 
 I have been instructed to apply as many Priority 1 and 2 accessibility
 requirements as possible, and let me tell you it's not going to be easy as the
 site design seems as though it was built for eye candy rather than usability!
 However I'd like to try and at least get the existing design somewhat
 accessible before I convince them a redesign is a good idea...
 
 Miles.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Mark Stanton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 10:51 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: [WSG] Preparing for DOCTYPE
 
 
 
 Post a link to the list!


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[WSG] Image float and text wrap

2003-11-12 Thread Miles Tillinger

I want to have an image with text on the right, but when the text goes beyond the 
bottom of the image I don't want it wrap, but rather to keep the consistent margin:

 -
 |   |
 |   |
 |   |
 |   |
 |   |




Regards,

Miles

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[WSG] Re: Image float and text wrap

2003-11-12 Thread Miles Tillinger

Oops, my fingers slipped onto the send shortcut...  so, as I was saying:


 - text text text
 |   | text text text
 |   | text text text
 |   | text text text
 |  image| text text text
 |   | text text text
 |   | text text text
 |   | text text text
 - text text text
   text text text
   text text text
   text text text
   text text text
   text text text
   text text text

Can this be achieved without using tables?

Regards,

Miles
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RE: [WSG] Re: Image float and text wrap

2003-11-12 Thread Miles Tillinger

Thanks, that achieves the effect I'm after,

but

The reason I wanted to do it was because the image and the text both linked to the 
same URL with an a tag each (in separate cells of a table).  I wanted to combine 
them so they were both wrapped in the one a tag, but when the a tag is wrapped 
around both div's clicking the image doesn't open the URL.

So the solution defeats its own purpose :(  Any ideas?

-Original Message-
From: James Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 10:52 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Re: Image float and text wrap



Miles :

Put your text in in a block set its margin-left to x pixels (.eg 170) 
should be wider than the image (.eg 160)..   The margin will run from 
the left of the containing block.

This will work for fixed width images.

Cheers
James

Miles Tillinger wrote:

Oops, my fingers slipped onto the send shortcut...  so, as I was saying:


 - text text text
 |   | text text text
 |   | text text text
 |   | text text text
 |  image| text text text
 |   | text text text
 |   | text text text
 |   | text text text
 - text text text
   text text text
   text text text
   text text text
   text text text
   text text text
   text text text

Can this be achieved without using tables?

Regards,

Miles
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RE: [WSG] RE: Image float and text wrap

2003-11-12 Thread Miles Tillinger

Thanks, but this caused the text next to the image to align to the bottom of the 
image.  Is there any way to make it align the the top?

p.s. I'm having a hard time keeping up with everyone's suggestions, but thanks muchly 
all the same!  I'll try them all :D

-Original Message-
From: Irapuan Martinez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 11:35 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] RE: Image float and text wrap



At 11:09 13/11/2003 +1030, Miles Tillinger wrote:
The reason I wanted to do it was because the image and the text both 
linked to the same URL with an a tag each (in separate cells of a 
table).  I wanted to combine them so they were both wrapped in the one a 
tag, but when the a tag is wrapped around both div's clicking the image 
doesn't open the URL. So the solution defeats its own purpose :(  Any ideas?

Try:

div#megatron {
 position: relative;
 margin-left: 100px;
}

div#megatron img {
 position: absolute;
 top: 0;
 left: 0;
}

..

div class=megatron
 a href=...
 img src=... width=90 /
 All your base are belong ...
 /a
/div

  Irapuan Martinez .__
 http://www.hypergraph.com.br

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[WSG] Browser test suite

2003-10-28 Thread Miles Tillinger
What kind of setup do ppl here use for browser testing?  I'm setting up a PC with 
Virtual PC and multiple OS's, but I'm wondering things like:

how many installs of each OS needed to test various version of IE
for example, does IE6 on Win2k have different issues to IE6 on any other Win OS 
(XP,ME,98)
Is there any way to have multiple IE version on the same OS?
Each OS install will incur another licence fee, so I'm trying to keep things cheap!

If there is a better way to do it I'm open to suggestions...

Cheers,

Miles.
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RE: [WSG] Icon and Aura

2003-10-21 Thread Miles Tillinger
not to bad considering!  Nice one

 -Original Message-
 From: Ben Bishop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, 22 October 2003 2:38 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Icon and Aura
 
 
 Can't quite replicate the hover state, but:
 http://www.browsercam.com/public.aspx?proj_id=26543
 
 Lindsay Evans wrote:
 
 Only tested in FB 0.6.1, IE 6 on XP (I'm lazy today).
 
 Suggestions welcome.
 
 
 
 Oh, and I know the hover thing isn't working in IE.
 IE is a PITA  can go to hell :)
   
 
 
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RE: [WSG] Icon and Aura

2003-10-21 Thread Miles Tillinger
cmon you webstandards ppl!

acronym title=Pain in the ArsePITA/acronym

I had to go look it up myself  :'(

 -Original Message-
 From: scott parsons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, 22 October 2003 2:56 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Icon and Aura
 
 
 um, lindsay you must be half asleep today...
 put the hover on an a tag
 a:hover {
 color: #00;
 background: #66;
 }
 and it works fine in the pita browser, else v cute
 
 s
 
 Lindsay Evans wrote:
 
 Only tested in FB 0.6.1, IE 6 on XP (I'm lazy today).
 
 Suggestions welcome.
 
 
 
 Oh, and I know the hover thing isn't working in IE.
 IE is a PITA  can go to hell :)
 
 Well, at least until I get bored enough to figure out why it 
 isn't working :p
 
 --
  Lindsay Evans.
  Developer,
  Red Square Productions.
 
  [p] 8596.4000
  [f] 8596.4001
  [w] www.redsquare.com.au
 
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