Re: [WSG] disallow IE6 to load the main style sheet

2010-12-19 Thread Paul Irish
tee,

you want this:
http://forabeautifulweb.com/blog/about/universal_internet_explorer_6_css/

it greatly simplifies the layout for IE6.. to just be the straight-up
content.. no layout tricks.
plus decent typography. :)



On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 3:59 PM, G.Sørtun gunla...@c2i.net wrote:

 On 19.12.2010 22:13, David McKinnon wrote:

 Sounds like you're going to a lot of effort to make the IE6 experince
 worse than it needs to be.
 Is this *dis*graceful degradation? ;)

 David


 As it says in my article: I've restricted disgraceful degradation to IE6
 and older. And, the effort is minimal :-)

 Not sure if limited styles necessarily make the IE6 experience worse than
 weak and/or failing styles and corrective measures. As usual that depends on
 the designer/coder.


 regards

Georg


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[WSG] seeking JavaScript Bible reviewers

2010-12-01 Thread Paul Novitski

Hi all,

I'm looking for established reviewers of programming books to whom to 
send copies of the JavaScript Bible 7th Edition (Wiley, 2010).

http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0470526912,descCd-description.html

If you're interested please write to me off-list, let me know what 
publications you write for, and include links to some of your 
published book reviews.


Thanks,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com



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Re: [WSG] blockquote

2010-04-03 Thread Paul Novitski

At 4/3/2010 07:39 PM, T. R. Valentine wrote:

Apparently, blockquote/blockquote cannot be used alone. It
produces 'character data is not allowed here'. What does it need?



Check the spec:

HTML 4.01 Specification
9 Text
9.2 Structured text
9.2.2 Quotations: The BLOCKQUOTE and Q elements
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/text.html#h-9.2.2

!ELEMENT BLOCKQUOTE - - (%block;|SCRIPT)+ -- long quotation --

This excerpt from the Document Type Declaration specifies that the 
only children of blockquote permitted are block-type elements and 
script. In other words, text within the blockquote element must be 
enclosed in a p, div, list, or other block-type element.




Also, can the blockquote tag have a class assigned to it?


Let's find out. From the above reference:

!ATTLIST BLOCKQUOTE
  %attrs;  -- %coreattrs, %i18n, %events --
  cite%URI;  #IMPLIED  -- URI for source document or msg --
  

This specifies which attributes blockquote may have. The symbol 
%attrs is defined as:


!ENTITY % attrs %coreattrs; %i18n; %events;

...%coreattrs in turn is defined as:

!ENTITY % coreattrs
 id  ID #IMPLIED  -- document-wide unique id --
  class   CDATA  #IMPLIED  -- space-separated list of classes --
  style   %StyleSheet;   #IMPLIED  -- associated style info --
  title   %Text; #IMPLIED  -- advisory title --
  

So yes, you may validly assign a class attribute to a blockquote element.

Regards,

Paul
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Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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[WSG] Use CSS to target last 2 list items

2010-02-22 Thread Paul Collins
Hi all

Just wondering, is it possible to use the nth-child in CSS2 to target the
last 2 items of an unordered list?

I know you can do nth-last-child, but I wanted to target the last TWO list
items. Is this possible?

Thanks for any help


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Re: [WSG] Minimal forms or marking up a search field

2010-02-17 Thread Paul Novitski



A practical distraction for the standardistas and accessibility gurus�

Hoping tap your brain for an alternative perspective on the simple and
common HTML scenario of a site search form.

...


To revisit this topic, I'm considering the 
following and would appreciate feedback:

_

a) Submit button as label:

form ...
   div
  input type=text id=search name=search /
  label for=search
 input type=submit value=Search /
  /label
   /div
/form
_

b) Label hidden from view:

form ...
   div
  label for=search id=search-labelSearch:/label
  input type=text id=search name=search /
  input type=submit value=Search /
   /div
/form

label#search-label
{
position: absolute;
left: -1000em;
}
_

The rationale for both of these is that the 
Search submit button serves as a clear and 
unambiguous label for the input field. In listing 
a) the button is literally the label; in b) there 
is a separate literal label present in the markup 
but hidden from cosmetic view.


Both validate for W3C HTML  Cynthia 528  Accessibilty.

Can you see any problems with them?

I favor a) but it feels edgy.

Regards,

Paul
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Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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RE: [WSG] CSS off button

2010-02-04 Thread Paul Novitski

At 2/4/2010 10:43 AM, Erickson, Kevin (DOE) wrote:
Here is the page using your example: 
http://www.doetest.vi.virginia.gov/z_testing_area/kevin/test-css-off-from-wsg2.shtmlhttp://www.doetest.vi.virginia.gov/z_testing_area/kevin/test-css-off-from-wsg2.shtml



I recommend that you give folks a corresponding button to turn 
styling back on after they switch it off.


Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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Re: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE

2010-02-03 Thread Paul Novitski

At 2/3/2010 02:47 PM, Marvin Hunkin wrote:

http://www.raulferrer.com/joe/html/



Hi Marvin,

Overall I found this to be a clear and attractive site. Good work!

A few quick notes:

1) Phone number formats vary from place to place, but in North 
America at least the convention is to insert spacing or punctuation 
between the first '1' and the area code. I would change 
1800-Joe-Fruit to 1-800-Joe-Fruit unless the Australian convention differs.


2) Many people find phone numbers translated to letters annoying or 
difficult to use. I recommend that you repeat the phone number in all 
digits: Phone 1-800-Joe-Fruit (1-800-563-37848)


3) The address of the shop at the bottom of the home page looks odd 
because the lines are spaced apart, which is the default styling for 
paragraphs but not for addresses. I suggest using either a break tag 
between lines (addresses and poetry being two good opportunities for 
the poor unappreciated break tag to do its thing) or style those 
paragraphs with no margin-bottom. In order to separate the mailing 
address from the phone number lines, I would do this by enclosing the 
physical address in one div and the phone number lines in another:


div class=contact
pJoe's Fruit Shop/p
p55 Main Road/p
pAnytown 2999/p
/div

div class=contact
pPhone: 9555-9876/p
pFor phone orders: 1800-Joe-Fruit/p
/div

with the styling rule:

div.contact
{
margin-bottom: 1em;
}
div.contact p
{
margin-bottom: 0;
}

That will leave a gap between clusters of paragraphs but no space 
between the paragraphs themselves inside each div.



4) On the Recipes page you are using break tags to insert space after 
the h3 subheads. Please remove them, and any other break tags you're 
using for spacing. The amount of space you've inserted here looks 
unattractive, it's confusing because it separates a headline so much 
from the text that belongs to it, and using break tags in this way 
contradicts the separation of content from presentation that is one 
of our industry's best practices today. If you want to present more 
space after h3's, do so using your stylesheet.



5) The Search page seems out of place and mis-named. It's really an 
index to the Produce page, not a search function. I would move the 
index to the top of the Produce page. If you want a true Search page 
you can do so easily using a common search engine. If you want to 
keep this page on its own the way it is now, at least consider 
renaming it Produce Index. I would place it immediately before or 
after the Produce page in the menu.



6) In your main menu, Fruit And Vegetable Recipes might be better 
called Fruit And Vegetable Recipe Links



7) On the Credits page, you've inserted two break tags immediately 
inside the first list item, causing Mike Levin's Photo Gallery to 
site two lines below its bullet. The main navigation menu has the 
same problem, with break tags in the list item for the home page, 
causing the nav menu to look broken on this page.



Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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Re: [WSG] e-mail link

2010-02-02 Thread Paul Novitski

At 2/1/2010 08:29 PM, Marvin Hunkin wrote:

what is the correct code for the subject line to appear in e-mail.



Marvin, here is a link to a summary of mailto syntax:
http://www.ianr.unl.edu/internet/mailto.html

For much more detail, here is a link to RFC 2368 The mailto URL 
scheme written in 1998:

http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2368

As you may know, there are problems using mailto links on a website, 
one of which is that spam spiders look for them in order to harvest 
email addresses. There are ways to obfuscate or conceal an email 
address in a mailto link but many methods are inaccessible or require 
JavaScript to be running or both. One very low-tech but possibly 
effective method is to verbalize the email address, such as chris at 
example dot com with at and dot spelled out. In order to fool 
the spam bots, you need to conceal both the email address displayed 
for the visitor and the address within the HTML href attribute.


Another problem with using mailto is that it assumes that the website 
visitor's browser can find an email client on their computer. Best 
practices urge us not to make assumptions about software installed on 
users' computers. Many people do not use an email client resident on 
their computer but instead use an online service such as gmail. 
Mailto will also fail or cause problems if the visitor is using a 
public computer at a library or internet cafe.


One of the most common solutions is instead use a contact form that 
posts information to a server-side script which can validate the 
input, check for obvious spam, and if satisfied generate an email 
message containing the form input. There are many free contact form 
scripts kicking around the net in a variety of scripting languages to 
suit your server.


Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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Re: [WSG] Assistance with flash example sites

2010-02-01 Thread Paul Novitski

At 1/31/2010 07:52 PM, Russ Weakley wrote:

A colleague has just asked me for some examples of Flash sites:

1. examples of flash sites which are not keyboard accessible (and/or
poor tab ordering)
2. examples of flash sites which ARE keyboard accessible



A wrinkle in keyboard accessibility is what I think of as the Black 
Holes of Flash: when a Flash application swallows keystrokes that 
normally operate the browser such as the CTL and ALT combinations in 
Windows. It's commonplace in my experience that Flash developers will 
prevent me from using CTL-w to close the current tab, CTL-TAB to 
switch to the next tab, ALT-whatever to use the browser's menu, and 
so on. They're not even re-purposing the keystrokes for new uses in 
their applications, they're just eating them. Keyboard accessibility 
can therefore be seen as a matter of degree, not merely true/false. A 
Flash app might itself be keyboard-accessible but still be quite 
frustrating for a keyboard user for whom the Flash app is not the 
only activity in their day. If you can't leave the browser window 
running Flash without using a mouse, someone's botched their job.


An example of a Flash application which itself is, alas, not 
keyboard-accessible but that does honor browser keystrokes is the 
jacket designer http://tmathletics.com/designer.php which we 
produced a few years ago. (The next-gen version we're producing this 
year will be accessible!)


Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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Re: [WSG] Accessibility does not matter!

2010-01-29 Thread Paul Novitski

At 1/29/2010 06:09 AM, Jason Grant wrote:

I feel there has been LOADS of 'accessibility is a must' type
discussion on this list, but at the same time I feel that there is
loads of arguments which are essentially 'accessibility for the sake
of accessibility'.

My point is that we are heading towards the times where 'relevant
accessibility' is more important than 'accessibility' per se.

Please have a read of my article and comment via email or on the blog itself.

http://www.flexewebs.com/semantix/accessibility-does-not-matter/



Sorry, Jason, but your essay is so poorly thought out and poorly 
written that you've given critical readers little to work with. 
You're just throwing a cat into a dog pen to watch the fun, and it's 
not even a real cat. If you really think there are types of websites 
in which accessibility concerns are irrelevant, list or describe 
them, but really all you're doing is exposing your own lack of broad, 
deep, and empathetic thinking.



When accessibility matters
...
* A company cares about their users


You could have stopped right there.

Glumly,
Paul 




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Re: [WSG] I need a professional eye.

2010-01-29 Thread Paul Novitski

At 1/29/2010 08:36 PM, PurencoolGmail wrote:

The site is www.purencool.com



All I want to know is there too much css?



No.

Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com



PS: Are you *sure* this is all you want to know?

What does the question mean? Too much CSS for what? If you're 
concerned about the size of your stylesheets, the two supporting the 
home page are only 5 KB so I would say No. If you're worried about 
the number of CSS rules, perhaps because you're afraid it will be 
difficult to maintain or degrade browser response time, I would say 
flatly No. Or do you mean that you're worried that the site might be 
over-styled? I would say no, it looks simple and open (which I like). 
I'm not positive what over-styled might look like, perhaps with too 
much decorative detail, but your site doesn't have that problem.


I do see some problems with the site most of which have nothing to do 
with CSS. (Yes, I know you didn't ask.)


- Neither the image fader nor the calculator worked properly in my 
Win Firefox 3.6 or IE8. Shall we assume they're still under development?


- The calculator breaks on text-only zoom enlargement. It would be 
simple enough to style its widths in ems so that it grows naturally 
with text zoom.


- I dislike the fact that your nav menus don't have hover states or 
an indicator of which page we're currently on.


- The footer menu text looks too high in the blue bar at normal zoom, 
and both menus quickly break cosmetically on text-only zoom. (It's 
easy to make menus with stretchable graphics.)


- The demos aren't enough to sell your apps. I recommend that you 
take a few paragraphs to detail their functionality, scope, 
limitations, and flexibility. I don't want to have to download a 
script merely to find out whether I can use it; that feels pushy and invasive.


- It's irritating that your demo pages lose the nav menus so the only 
way to get back to the rest of your site is by Backing up. Keep in 
mind that many people will land on a demo page right from a search 
engine or other link and you want to make it easy for them to browse 
your site from there.


- I think you should let people view the demos immediately, either 
right there on your home page or on the Services page. Why do we need 
to go to a separate demo page at all? Far better to integrate the 
apps right into your own site as an implicit demonstration of their 
integratability.


- Personally I think the delay on your fader is at least twice as 
long as it should be. Making people wait to watch a cosmetic effect 
is irritating.


- Your home page headline Latest Product or Service is odd. First, 
the ambiguity of the headline is mysterious; after all, it's your 
site so you should know whether the content below is a product or a 
service which are two very different things. Second, you don't have a 
Products page listed in your nav menus, and the Product or Service 
featured on your home page is in fact a product, creating an 
unnecessary and off-putting confusion. Perhaps Services in the top 
nav menu should be P  S.




Any feed back would be great and you don't have to
be nice.


*Whew!*

Good luck with your site.

Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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Re: [WSG] :: makeready ::

2010-01-26 Thread Paul Novitski

At 1/26/2010 01:07 AM, David Laakso wrote:

Comments and suggestions on this site appreciated.
markup
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/mhr/



The blank alt attributes for the foreground images are brow-wrinklers 
for me. When an image is in the foreground I figure that it is 
content that contributes substantially to the comprehension of the 
site, and I see no reason to withhold that information from search 
engines and other sightless users. In contrast, when an image is 
purely decor and contributes aesthetically but not 
informationally then I like to see it as a background image where 
it hovers ghostlike, insubstantial, visible but not touching the 
content nor touchable by a parsing hand.


(Of course the aesthetic components of any work are part of its total 
information, but in terms of the content/presentation dichotomy we 
work with every day we can usually separate them with little effort. 
For example, which foreground and background colors you use for a 
website featuring construction equipment are irrelevant to the 
product content at hand. The colors might well be relevant to the 
client if they echo the corporate palette, but not worthy of bringing 
to the attention of a screen-reader or search engine -- except in 
those cases where the cosmetic design is brought to the foreground in 
an article on corporate communication or web design.)


Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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Re: [WSG] CSS off button

2010-01-22 Thread Paul Novitski

At 1/22/2010 12:22 PM, Erickson, Kevin (DOE) wrote:
Could anyone please tell me if there is a right way to put a 
clickable button in a web page that will turn off all CSS?



To be perhaps overly precise, I'm guessing that you probably don't 
want to turn off *all* styling because that would render your 
document as one long string of undifferentiated text, but instead you 
want to keep the browser's default styling and/or the user's custom 
styling and suppress the page author's additional styling.


The approach would most likely be to strip out the style elements 
from the html head and the style attributes from all elements on the 
page. I think it would be unreasonable to ask a program to also 
suppress styling imposed by client-side scripting but if you were 
being paid enough this would be doable.


The best practice way to do this would be, first of all, to provide a 
submit button or link that asked a server-side script to re-deliver 
the current page with style elements and attributes removed. Then you 
could add a JavaScript layer that intercepted the button click and 
stripped away styling on the fly. I don't think removing the style 
elements in the head after a page is rendered has the desired effect, 
so you'd probably have to delete all the children of the style object 
in addition to deleting the style attributes on the page.


Depending on your purpose, you'd also want to decide whether to strip 
other presentational elements and attributes at the same time.


Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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Re: [WSG] a tiny usability question on web form

2010-01-08 Thread Paul Novitski

At 1/5/2010 06:19 AM, tee wrote:

Was making a web form for a commercial software which clientele are
mainly from EU countries, in the original form the order of the
Country field. The order looks like this:

address/street
country
state
city
zipcode

Maybe I'd been making too many web forms for US and some Asian
countries' clients, I find it creates a tiny usability issue for user
to have the country field places above state, city and zipcode. From
my own experience, I always use tabbing to navigate web form, in a few
US sites that I did shopping and that has country, city, state and
zipcode setup in a non-US format, I find them to be a usability
problem because I didn't read carefully but out of habit (and this is
something I expect many web users would do), entered my address
expecting  them to be in standard US format.

My client thinks otherwise:

...

from a usability standpoint it seems weird to me to for example show
the Country field AFTER the State field. Why? Because the State
field is depending on the Country field.




I have often placed the nation before the state/province for exactly 
this reason, but nearly as often my clients protest that it's just 
too weird and unconventional and they don't want to confuse or put 
off their customers.


One solution is to ask the nation first, perhaps in a form by itself 
or before the rest of the address fields are revealed.


Another solution is the make the state/prov field a plain text field, 
not a drop-down, and then validate it after the nation is entered (or 
the default nation is accepted through form submission), and if 
invalid present a drop-down based on the nation.


Another solution is to combine nation  prov in the same drop-down:

Afghanistan
Albania
...
Aruba
Australia - ACT
Australia - New South Wales
Australia - Northern Territory
Australia - Queensland
Australia - South Australia
Australia - Tasmania
Australia - Victoria
Australia - Western Australia
Austria
...

This wouldn't be egregiously unwieldy unless you broke out a lot of 
nations rather than just a few. The most common break-downs I do are 
for Australia, Mexico, UK, and USA.


Many nations don't require or prefer a state/province/canton as part 
of a mailing address. Has anyone here done the leg-work to determine 
which nations do?


On quick google I found this chart of mailing address formats around the world:
http://www.bitboost.com/ref/international-address-formats.html#Formats
I don't know how up-to-date it is.

On the note of US-myopia it's worth pointing out that in many 
countries (particiularly Europe) the postal code precedes the city, e.g.


00-940 Warszawa
Poland

...and some countries such as Russia are big-endians and sequence 
the address as nation, postal code, city, street address, recipient 
(although naturally they cope with the little-endian format when 
processing international mail).


Also, remember that ZIP Code refers to the US only; everyone else 
calls them postal codes or equivalent. ZIP is an all-caps acronym 
for Zone Improvement Plan coined by the US Postal Service in 1963.


Yet more reasons to query the nation first~

Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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[WSG] Ways of sending a HTML email

2010-01-06 Thread Paul Collins
Hi all,

A client of mine wants a HTML email with very little budget! So, I don't
want to spend time setting it up in Campaign monitor for him.

I'm wondering, can you send HTML emails straight from Word or Acrobat, or
something like that these days? I'm not up to speed and can't find any info.
It would be good if I could hand him some kind of design he can edit and
send himself.

Thanks for any advice,
Paul


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[WSG] G'day from Copenhagen!

2009-12-07 Thread Paul Collins
Hi all,

I've decided to stop whinging about the lack of action on Climate Change and
do something about it! I am currently in Copenhagen for the Climate Change
Summit (COP15), which you've probably been hearing about.

There's a load of stuff going on behind the scenes that you won't get to see
on the news, such as Klimaforum - a totally seperate people's forum, where
anyone can attend. I've setup a Blog about these things, which I'll be
updating dailly. http://climatechangestuff.com

I'm no expert on this stuff and there is so much technical jargon out there;
the point of this trip is to learn more. The focus of the Blog is to
document what I'm finding out and make the issues easy to understand.

Please take a look if you're interested in Climate Change  COP15. I don't
want to annoy you with constant messaging if you're not though, so I've
setup a Facebook page, if you subscribe here you can get updates:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cozza/18826599?v=wall

Or, you can sign-up for email updates on the right hand column of the site.

Or Twitter: http://twitter.com/cozzabags

Cheers, and and all the best.
Paul


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Re: [ADMIN] THREAD CLOSED - OFF TOPIC Re: [WSG] G'day from Copenhagen!

2009-12-07 Thread Paul Collins
Hi all

I'm really sorry for that last email, I sent it to the wrong list. Please
ignore it!

Cheers
Paul


2009/12/7 Lea de Groot w...@elysiansystems.com




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-- 
---
I'm at the Copenhagen COP15 Climate Change Summit Dec 4th-19th
Check out my blog: http://climatechangestuff.com


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Re: [WSG] dl as paragraph?

2009-10-12 Thread Paul Novitski

At 10/12/2009 04:01 PM, nedlud wrote:
I was just looking at a page on the National Library of Australia 
web site 
(http://www.nla.gov.au/services/issnabout.htmlhttp://www.nla.gov.au/services/issnabout.html) 
and noticed the font rendering was strange in my browser (Firefox 
3.5.3). When I looked at the markup to try and understand why, I 
found that the site seem to be marked up using definition lists for 
paragraphs.


I don't want to jump to conclusions, so can anyone suggest a 
legitimate reason for doing this?


Each paragraph seems to be a new list (not a new list *item*. A 
whole new list).


My guess is that the markup was engineered by someone still learning 
the ropes. The page content is in the form of a QA and they validly 
selected a definition list as the markup structure, but then they 
decided to use h3 for the questions and realized an h3 couldn't be 
the immediate child of a dl so they dropped out of the list structure 
for each question. I think a better solution would have been to make 
the whole FAQ a single dl and drop the h3's.




And the text is in a dd tag with no dt.


I believe that's valid markup. As I read the DTD, a definition list 
must contain at least one dt *OR* dd but doesn't require at least one of each:


!ELEMENT DL - - (DT|DD)+  -- definition list --
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/lists.html#h-10.3

Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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[WSG] Best book for learning PHP

2009-10-07 Thread Paul Collins
Hi all,

I really need to get better at PHP  MYSQL, mainly for customising Wordpress. 
I'm scouring Amazon and the interweb and finding conflicting opinions. I was 
just wondering what any of the experts on here recommend?!

PS - this isn't off topic, right?!

Cheers
Paul


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RE: [WSG] The 'Some Links for Light Reading' posts

2009-09-23 Thread Paul Collins
I third that, those links for light reading are one of the best sources of 
information I get. Thanks Russ!


From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On 
Behalf Of Jason Grant
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 11:45 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] The 'Some Links for Light Reading' posts

I also second that.
It's become a part of my routine whenever the links come in to comb through 
them and check out what's going on right now regarding CSS and HTML techniques. 
:-)

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Russ Weakley 
r...@maxdesign.com.aumailto:r...@maxdesign.com.au wrote:
Thanks everyone for kind words!

Remember, you can email me any time if you have events, resources, new 
applications, articles or links you want to share/pimp etc :)

Thanks
Russ




On 23/09/2009, at 5:43 PM, Frank Palinkas wrote:

Indeed. Spot on Captain!

Med vennlig hilsen / Kind regards,

Frank M. Palinkas
Technical Writer, Opera Software
Documentation  Localization
Core Engineering  Consumer Products
Mobile: (+47) 95 17 61 11
http://dev.opera.com/articles/accessibility/



On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 7:52 AM, 
lisa.kerri...@iird.vic.gov.aumailto:lisa.kerri...@iird.vic.gov.au wrote:

 me too! fabulous stuff

Lisa Kerrigan | Manager Content  User Experience
www.business.vic.gov.auhttp://www.business.vic.gov.au; 
www.diird.vic.gov.auhttp://www.diird.vic.gov.au
' +61 3 9651 9176 8 
lisa.kerri...@diird.vic.gov.aumailto:lisa.kerri...@diird.vic.gov.au
Department of Innovation, Industry and Regional Development
Level 31, 121 Exhibition Street, Melbourne, Victoria 3000.






On Wed, 23 Sep 2009, nedlud wrote:

 I second that.

 On the other hand, after looking at a few of the links the first
 few times I received those messages, I now delete them unseen.

 On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Susie Gardner-Brown
susi...@uq.edu.aumailto:susi...@uq.edu.auwrote:

   Hi there
 
  I?d just like to send a big thank you to Russ Weakley for taking the
time
  to collate and send this to WSG Announce each week! I always find
really
  interesting stuff there, and usually bookmark a couple of links from
it.
 
  So, thanks Russ ? it?s really appreciated!

--
 Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster http://woodbine-gerrard.com
 ===
 Author:
 Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)



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--
Jason Grant BSc, MSc
CEO, Flexewebs Ltd.
www.flexewebs.comhttp://www.flexewebs.com
ja...@flexewebs.commailto:ja...@flexewebs.com
+44 (0)7748 591 770
Company no.: 5587469

www.flexewebs.com/semantixhttp://www.flexewebs.com/semantix
www.twitter.com/flexewebshttp://www.twitter.com/flexewebs
www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebshttp://www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs

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RE: [WSG] Ordered List Best Practice

2009-09-22 Thread Paul Novitski

At 9/22/2009 08:43 AM, Kepler Gelotte wrote:

ol type=A
  lia href=a.pdfFirst/a
div class=margin_left_minus_40px
  h3Subheading/h3
/div
  /li
  lia href=b.pdfFirst/a/li
  lia href=c.pdfFirst/a
div class=margin_left_minus_40px
  h3Subheading/h3
/div
  /li
  lia href=d.pdfFirst/a/li
  lia href=e.pdfFirst/a/li
/ol



I find this solution problematic. Scrutinizing the markup, I would 
put a subhead at the beginning of the content it heads, not at the 
tail of whatever content precedes it.


Semantically, if items d  e deserve their own subhead, to what 
extent are they really part of the same list as a, b,  c? They might 
be on the same nesting level, but are they really part of the same 
list? It would be interesting to see some of the actual content of 
this list to see why the original poster felt that all five items 
belong in one list.


I guess the bottom line here is that today's HTML doesn't permit us 
to insert a headline into the middle of a list but gives us this solution:


ol
   li
  ol
 li a /li
 li b /li
 li c /li
  /ol
  h3 subhead /h3
  ol
 li d /li
 li e /li
  /ol
   /li
/ol


div class=margin_left_minus_40px
  h3Subheading/h3
/div


Aside, is the div really necessary? Could not any necessary styling 
be applied to the h3 itself? If complicated markup is deemed 
necessary, for example because of multiple background images  CSS3, 
I myself would rather nest structures inside the headline rather than 
hang them outside of it so as to reach for a greater semantic clarity.


Also, I suggest you use class names that evoke the purpose of a 
structure and not its presentation. If your class names are going to 
be as explicit as margin_left_minus_40px then you're no better off 
than injecting style rules inline. Either way, if you change the 
graphic design you'll be changing your markup. In this particular 
example you likely don't need class names at all because you can 
specify the divs and h3s unambiguously from their position in the markup, e.g.


ol.listName li h3

Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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Re: [WSG] legal list numbering

2009-08-26 Thread Paul Novitski

At 8/25/2009 10:11 PM, Andrew Harris wrote:

How do people get around the problem of marking up ordered lists in
legal documents, such as policies or terms and conditions?

A typical structure might look like:

1 blah blah blah
1.1 blah blah blah
1.2 blah blah blah
1.2.1 blah blah blah
1.2.2 blah blah blah
1.3 blah blah blah
2 blah blah blah
2.1 blah blah blah
2.1.1 blah blah blah*



In all of the discussions of this issue I've read, the final wisdom 
has been to actually hard-code the numbering of contracts, bylaws, 
etc. in nested lists, suppressing the normal list-style-type. That 
might seem retro, but you can't afford to have any of the numbering 
change because of an editing error. The whole point behind 
auto-numbering is thoughtless re-numbering, something a legal 
document cannot tolerate. It would be better to have an 
accidentally-deleted item leave a hole in the numbering that a 
proofreader could easily catch than to have HTML automatically close 
up the numbering sequentially over such an elision.


Another advantage is that the numbering is manifest in the markup 
itself, rather than being a sequence of bare LIs. Someone can snip an 
excerpt from the markup with the numbering intact. (In this vein, 
implementing the numbering of a contract with JavaScript sounds about 
as smart as printing the contract on sheets of ice.)


This decision is made easier, of course, by the limited 
auto-numbering options of HTML!


Justification for hard-coding the numbering from a semantic 
perspective is that the numbering is actually integral to the content 
and not merely an incidental by-product of its sequence in the 
greater list. I believe the logic is that once the legal document is 
finalized, an item's number becomes part of its fixed name used in 
quoting and references and a great weight of legality rests on the 
accuracy and persistence of the numbering.


Of course, when you're drafting a contract it's handy to use 
auto-numbering in word processing, but once you get to the final 
draft stage I'd freeze it for HTML.


Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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RE: [WSG] How Important Is Web Accessibility?

2009-08-18 Thread Paul Collins
I think it's still necessary...

These articles sum it up well.
http://zomigi.com/blog/why-browser-zoom-shouldnt-kill-flexible-layouts/
http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200906/page_zoom_does_not_mean_the_end_of_flexibility/




From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On 
Behalf Of James Jeffery
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:08 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] How Important Is Web Accessibility?

Zooming is present on the majority of modern browsers, so where does this leave 
elastic layouts, and em's? Should we still develop sites that grow should the 
user want to increase the text size? Even though it's the lower browsers that 
do that?

I've been out of the scene for a while, so I've lost touch with the current 
practices and conventions.

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RE: [WSG] How Important Is Web Accessibility?

2009-08-18 Thread Paul Collins
At least he didn't call us fucktards, like the last bloke :)


From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On 
Behalf Of Andrew Maben
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 12:02 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] How Important Is Web Accessibility?

Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm

How hard can that be?

On Aug 18, 2009, at 6:37 AM, Scott Andrews wrote:

Dont just auto mail me back. Actually delete me


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[WSG] The head of the document

2009-07-23 Thread Paul Collins
Hi all,

I'm just curious to know what other people do these days with the header of 
their document? What is best practice for:

- Good search engine rankings
- Best charset for English text (utf-8, right?)
- Do we need robots - all anymore?
- Any Accessibility issues? (Can't think of any)
- Does anyone bother with descriptions, keywords anymore?
- Dublin Core metadata, is that a forgotten fad?!

I'll show you an example of how I setup a standard page, please anyone offer 
what they think is best practice, or perhaps send any useful links:

!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN 
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd;
html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; 
xmlns:v=urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml xml:lang=en lang=en
head
 meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=utf-8/
 meta http-equiv=Content-Language content=en-us/
 titleTITLE/title
 meta name=ROBOTS content=ALL/
 meta http-equiv=imagetoolbar content=no/
 meta name=MSSmartTagsPreventParsing content=true/
link rel=stylesheet href=STYLESHEET type=text/css media=all/
/head

Cheers




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[WSG] RE: The head of the document

2009-07-23 Thread Paul Collins
Thanks for your replies everyone...

I didn't know Metadata had any influence at all anymore! Thanks for letting me 
know... Need to get back onto my own sites and add it :)


From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On 
Behalf Of David Nixon
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 1:43 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] RE: The head of the document

Hi Paul

From an SEO perspective there is great value put on keywords and titles 
providing they reflect the content within the document.
However if the keywords are over proliferated within the document the index 
engines tend to pick up on this and mark them down as 'suspect'

Content is king!





_



David Nixon

Consultant

Altran CIS UK

Tel: +44(0)1625 666910

Mob: +44(0)7964 673164

david.ni...@altran-cis.co.uk

www.altran-cis.co.ukhttp://www.altran-cis.co.uk/



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From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On 
Behalf Of Paul Collins
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 1:15 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] The head of the document

Hi all,

I'm just curious to know what other people do these days with the header of 
their document? What is best practice for:

- Good search engine rankings
- Best charset for English text (utf-8, right?)
- Do we need robots - all anymore?
- Any Accessibility issues? (Can't think of any)
- Does anyone bother with descriptions, keywords anymore?
- Dublin Core metadata, is that a forgotten fad?!

I'll show you an example of how I setup a standard page, please anyone offer 
what they think is best practice, or perhaps send any useful links:

!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN 
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd;
html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; 
xmlns:v=urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml xml:lang=en lang=en
head
 meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=utf-8/
 meta http-equiv=Content-Language content=en-us/
 titleTITLE/title
 meta name=ROBOTS content=ALL/
 meta http-equiv=imagetoolbar content=no/
 meta name=MSSmartTagsPreventParsing content=true/
link rel=stylesheet href=STYLESHEET type=text/css media=all/
/head

Cheers



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Re: [WSG] Usability in Links

2009-07-18 Thread Paul Novitski

At 7/18/2009 12:58 PM, Bushidodeep wrote:

I've a client wishing to call attention to (2) a: links, in a vertical
list by simply reversing with the hover color. The a:links are now the
hover color value and the a:hover is now the a:link color value.
After reviewing the change I found it conflicting with the
surrounding  a:links, so did some of my flat-mates used for usability
testing.

Would someone suggest a method that doesn't cause disharmony, or is it
just nit-picking on our part?



What I would say to your client is this: Graphic designs communicate 
much like any language with the elements of the design comprising the 
vocabulary of meaning. A website design must actually teach us its 
own design language even as we're using it. While graphic design has 
a lot of flexibility for creating new terminology with each new 
design, designs must still abide by certain patterns of human 
language comprehension if they wish to communicate well. One of those 
patterns is that elements that look alike mean something similar. 
Unlike the richness of spoken language that can afford such luxuries 
as ambiguity, a page has only a few dozen design elements in its 
vocabulary and therefore each element should express a distinct, 
unique meaning in order to keep the design easy to understand and 
quick to apprehend. A page that's confusing leaves the visitor 
unsure, while a page that's clear helps us feel comfortable and 
confident while we're reading or using it.


Using the same color combination for menu item hover state as to 
highlight an item the client feels is important is unnecessariliy 
confusing. Surely the color palette of the overall design is rich 
enough to come up with a unique combination to represent 'importance'.


Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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Re: [WSG] Back to basics!

2009-07-11 Thread Paul Novitski

At 7/11/2009 04:44 AM, designer wrote:

So you are really saying that typing

I have got �100 to spare

is OK, instead of:

#8220;I have got pound;100 to spare#8221;



Absolutely. As an example, look at the HTML source for this page:
http://laurietobyedison.com/WOJwords_HanashiroIkuko.asp

Scroll down past the nav menu and you'll see both 
Roman and Japanese text. There are HTML entities 
in the pages of this site that have survived from 
an earlier iteration, but none of the quotes and 
dashes need to be escaped with UTF-8.


Just try it -- it will be a revelation.

Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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RE: [WSG] Back to basics!

2009-07-10 Thread Paul Novitski



Could anyone tell me where there is information regarding character code
'usage' that is simple.  I always use UTF-8 and, e.g., if I want to put
a left quote in my text I can use quot; or #8220;  Which is
recommended?

...

One of the main points of using Unicode is that you don't need to use
entities, other than for a handful of chars used by HTML.



Yes! Using UTF-8 in your web pages means NOT having to use HTML 
entities for text such as #241; or ecirc;. The only HTML entities 
you need to use in your character data are amp; for '' ampersand, 
lt; for '' less-than, and gt; for '' greater-than so that those 
characters don't confuse the HTML parser.


To get you started, two basic rules are:

1) Save your HTML/PHP files with UTF-8 character encoding. In many 
text editors there's a character encoding option in the Save As dialog.


2) Declare UTF-8 as the character encoding in the HTML header, e.g.:

meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=utf-8 /

(XHTML has different character set declarations than HTML.)

For more details see Richard Ishida's W3C Internationalization pages 
at http://www.w3.org/International/


Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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Re: [WSG] working with line-height

2009-07-02 Thread Paul Novitski

At 7/1/2009 07:19 PM, Ben Lau wrote:
This is what I'm trying to achieve: 
http://hellobenlau.net/wsg/eg.gifhttp://hellobenlau.net/wsg/eg.gif
So there'll be a div with padding top and bottom of 20px, and with 
text inside.



This doesn't look to me like a line-height topic at all. If you 
increase the line-height, the lines of text within each paragraph 
will separate from one another, and that isn't what your gif 
illustrates. It looks more like a (default) line-height of 1.


Instead, this looks like a simple matter of applying padding  
margins to the wrapper div its paragraphs.


Now, if we're to take your gif literally, it looks like you've got 
17px between the two paragraphs.  That implies:


div
{
padding-top: 20px;
padding-bottom: 3px;
}
div p
{
margin-bottom: 17px;
}

div
20px
psome text/p
17px
psome more text/p
17px
 3px
/div

Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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Re: [WSG] Accessible websites (was: accessible free web hosting account)

2009-06-30 Thread Paul Novitski

At 6/29/2009 11:46 PM, Jens-Uwe Korff wrote:
I found that some of these elements take quite some time to 
integrate. Creating high-contrast CSS can take up to a day (or more 
if you're new to it), non-Javascript states usually more than an 
hour because you also have to edit the script.


By non-Javascript states do you mean that the website should work 
in the absence of JavaScript? I like to think that this is where web 
development should begin, with JavaScript added to enhance, not to 
provide core functionality.



For an example of a high-contrast version may I suggest to check out 
the Sydney Morning Herald's Travel section 
(http://www.smh.com.au/travel/). Click on Low vision in the 
navigation bar (We're going to replace low vision with high 
contrast since the former can be perceived as discriminatory). The 
styles you see then have been developed together with a vision-impaired person.


FYI, when I click on Low vision and get the high-contrast 
stylesheet, that right-most menu pick changes to High contrast and 
is highlighted, indicating that I am now on the high-contrast page. I 
click it again and I return to the starting stylesheet and the menu 
pick changes to Normal contrast.


This is inconsistent -- first you're using the menu pick as a sign 
post to another state, and then you're using it as a current state 
indicator. Was this deliberate? It feels broken to me. Usually I 
click on menu items in order to go to the named item or to invoke the 
named change. You're using the menu pick initially in this way, but 
after you begin using it, it becomes an indicator of the current 
state rather than a sign post pointing off-stage.


I would choose just one of those models, leaning toward sign post. If 
you want to indicate the current state, I would display both states 
and highlight the current one.


Also, to ditto Jim Croft, it's terribly ironic that this menu pick 
becomes large enough for a person with limited vision to read only 
after it's been selected.


Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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Re: [WSG] DIV Javascript Problem

2009-06-29 Thread Paul Novitski

At 6/29/2009 02:32 AM, Aaron Wheeler wrote:

taken charge of maintaining a website for a client who uses divs to display
data onto a .htm page. They do not want to use .php and mysql data basing as
they are worried about losing their ranking in the search engines.


Please tell the client that search engines do not use JavaScript, 
therefore all content that is displayed on the page by JavaScript 
will not be seen by search engines and will not improve their SEO.


This sounds like a classic example of a non-technically-proficient 
client making low-level technical decisions that are simply outside 
of their purview. In my opinion the scope of their mandate should be 
to have a website created that furthers their business model, and to 
hire the expertise to make this happen. Exactly which technologies 
are used to reach their goal should not be decided by anyone with 
little or no experience using those technologies.




body onLoad=loadPrices('ox001, ment001 ,hvh001 ,vhw001')


For modern HTML support you'll want to enclose attribute values in 
quotation marks.

http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/intro/sgmltut.html#h-3.2.2

To support modern coding principles such as progressive enhancement 
and graceful degradation you'll want to strip all JavaScript out of 
the HTML and confine it to the linked .js file where it belongs.

http://accessites.org/site/2007/02/graceful-degradation-progressive-enhancement/

The W3C HTML Validator referred to previously can be found at
http://validator.w3.org/



script language=javascript src=rates.js/script
body onLoad=loadPrices('ox001, ment001 ,hvh001 ,vhw001')
div id=hvh001/div

So I was wondering why this does not always work and especially when I seem
to update pages using dreamweaver.
I dunno how this works or why it even works.


It's impossible to say without seeing the complete HTML page and 
JavaScript file. If you want help, I suggest you post links to where 
they're located. It's possible that the solution to your problem is 
simple; if not, it may be beyond the scope of this list to help you 
for free and you may have to hire some expertise.


Good luck! You've got a long climb ahead of you, but achieving 
altitude to so worth it.


Paul
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Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
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Re: [WSG] Expand width of container to fit content's width?

2009-06-26 Thread Paul Novitski

At 6/26/2009 12:58 PM, Stevio wrote:

Is it possible to expand a container's width to fit its content?

For example, if I have a page where the content is wider than the 
width available at the browser's current size, which means the 
horizontal scrollbar appear, I want the container to expand to fit 
the width of the content instead of having the content sticking out 
the side (because that makes the design of the page look poor when 
the user scrolls horizontally).



It's always a good idea to include a link to a page where your 
problem is actually occurring so we can give you pertinent advice.


Speaking in generalities, normal behavior is for a container to 
stretch to contain its content. However, if content is floated left 
or right or positioned absolutely or relatively, it's taken out of 
the flow and can visually extend beyond the boundaries of its 
containing block. The solution is often to float or relatively 
position the container. If the problem is that you've absolutely 
positioned your content, I would further recommend that you rethink 
that plan, as in most cases absolute positioning is an unnecessary, 
brute-force approach to solve a problem that can be handled much more 
gracefully with different styling.


Regards,

Paul
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Re: [WSG] website fonts

2009-06-23 Thread Paul Novitski

At 6/22/2009 08:49 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

To put what you wrote another way, with a font family list such as your
example, the visitor is at the designer's mercy to see only the designer's
choice of fonts, instead of the visitor's, even if the visitor has spent big
money on high quality but uncommon fonts and chosen as default one of them.
To actually see his choice, the visitor will have to set is browser to
completely ignore the designer's font choices throughout all documents.

Like Mark, I say let the visitor's choice be the choice applied to most
content, with the designer specifying otherwise only to highlight or provide
character, as in headings, emphasis, or menuing. On body at least, it should
be enough to specify either serif or sans-serif (partial deference to
visitor), or nothing at all (total deference to visitor). If the visitor
wants Comic Sans, let him have it. It's his puter, not yours.



Oh, it doesn't stop with fonts! Some website producers are arrogant 
enough to force text and images on the visitor instead of allowing 
them to enjoy the default text and images they have written for their 
own browser. It's shocking; simply shocking. If people actually 
wanted to read the text, see the images, and enjoy the graphic and 
typographic design of other people (give me a break!), they would 
have connected these computers into a world-wide network and 
permitted us to browse around looking at one another's... hey... wait 
a minute... hmm, let me rethink this one.


Regards,

Paul
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Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
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Re: [WSG] website fonts

2009-06-23 Thread Paul Novitski

At 6/22/2009 08:49 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

To put what you wrote another way, with a font family list such as your
example, the visitor is at the designer's mercy to see only the designer's
choice of fonts, instead of the visitor's, even if the visitor has spent big
money on high quality but uncommon fonts and chosen as default one of them.
To actually see his choice, the visitor will have to set is browser to
completely ignore the designer's font choices throughout all documents.

Like Mark, I say let the visitor's choice be the choice applied to most
content, with the designer specifying otherwise only to highlight or provide
character, as in headings, emphasis, or menuing. On body at least, it should
be enough to specify either serif or sans-serif (partial deference to
visitor), or nothing at all (total deference to visitor). If the visitor
wants Comic Sans, let him have it. It's his puter, not yours.



I submit that installing a font on one's computer establishes a 
concrete desire to view text styled in that font to be displayed in 
that font. Conversely, if we don't wish to see text in a particular 
font, we can simply remove it or choose not to install it in the 
first place. We're still at the mercy of PDFs and word processing 
documents with embedded fonts and Flash movies and docs containing 
text-as-image, but plain text HTML cannot force fonts on us that we 
do not choose to see. The user has complete control over their own 
computer in this regard and cannot be forced or coerced by a document designer.


I put it to you that all of the text on a page provides character to 
the page, not just headlines  menus. It is the relationship between 
different fonts on a page that gives it deeper character. Sans-serif 
heads are not the same when paired with either serif or sans-serif body text.


Please explain the boundary you perceive between body text, which you 
feel should not be styled by the page designer, and headlines, 
emphasis, and menuing which you think are OK for a designer to 
design. Why should the page designer not influence the former and why 
should the font-sensitive end-user relinquish control over the latter?


Further, why should we not influence letter forms but have our merry 
way with foreground  background colors, borders, images, surrounding 
margins  padding, line height, and other stylistic memes that can 
affect both readability and the reader's aesthetic context just as 
much as or more than font choice?


I suggest we go ahead and suggest font-families but do it 
intelligently and compassionately, choosing fonts for a particular 
purpose for their grace and readability and compatibility with 
column-width and all the rest of the page design.


Regards,

Paul
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Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
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Re: [WSG] website fonts

2009-06-22 Thread Paul Novitski

At 6/22/2009 12:24 AM, matt andrews wrote:

2009/6/22 Mark Harris w...@tracs.co.nz
 The biggest cost I have seen in web design since 1996, when I 
started, is the perceived need to make the web like the printed 
page. That, and the desire to make it pixel-identical in multiple browsers.


 Let the control go to the user, focus on getting information out 
there. You can't control everything, just make it make sense.


Absolutely.  This is probably old hat (where did *that* phrase come
from?) to most on this list, but if you haven't come across it before,
A Dao of Web Design, a short article by John Allsopp (of  Westciv
and Web Directions fame) is a must-read:

http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dao/



With respect, a few points:

- Allsop's article (which, although written in 2000 and out-dated in 
some of its specific references to browser development, is completely 
relevant today) primarily advises us not to try to control font-size. 
With regard to font-family he writes, With CSS, you can suggest a 
number of fonts, and cover as many bases as possible. But don't rely 
on a font being available regardless of how common it is. So his 
philosophy DOES permit font-family suggestions and advises merely 
against RELYING on any particular font being available. To me this is 
a far cry from avoiding font-family suggestions in the stylesheet.


- If we don't rely on the presence of particular font-families and 
let go of the desire to make the web pixel-identical in multiple 
browsers, then the philosophical problem goes away, does it not?


- Even if we suggest fonts in the stylesheet, they're just 
suggestions. I don't consider this to be controlling the user 
agent. A suggested font will display if it's on the user's computer 
and otherwise default to something that is. The user has ultimate 
control in installing fonts of choice and overriding all stylesheets 
(including the default stylesheet the comes packaged with the 
browser) with their own.


- CSS font-family suggestions are a perfect case of both graceful 
degradation and progressive enhancement. The browser ensures that the 
text will render if there is at least one font installed on the 
client computer, then the stylesheet can suggest a series of families 
that more closely approach the designer's ideal. It's a system 
guaranteed not to break on even the most rudimentary system, and will 
look better and better the more of the desired software (fonts) are installed.


- I submit that suggesting serif and sans-serif in the stylesheet is 
exactly as controlling (that is, NOT) as suggesting Georgia or Lucida 
Sans. It is 'controlling' in the sense that it's suggesting to the 
user agent whether to use a serif font or not, but with no control 
whatsoever in determining whether a corresponding font resides on the 
user's computer. If I install even one serif font on my computer, 
your CSS rule of 'font-family: serif' will invoke that font unless I 
override it. If I install only sans-serif fonts on my computer, your 
CSS rule will ultimately be ignored and I'll see your serif text in 
my Helvetica or Univers.


- There is no such thing as a web page without styling. Every browser 
comes with its own default stylesheets which will determine things 
like font-size, margins, and padding if not overridden by the 
author's or the user's own stylesheets. So we're not really living in 
a pure universe in which it's possible not to style. If you don't use 
a stylesheet at all, you're just asking the browser to apply its own, 
so by refusing to control you're not helping to create a situation of 
no control, you're simply passing the buck. As a Buddhist you can 
refuse to kill animals but as long as you're alive you can't avoid 
killing vegetables and microorganisms and you can't prevent the lion 
from taking down the antelope nor the spider the fly. Styling 
Happens. Get used to it.


- Finally, if your relinquishing of control extends to not even 
suggesting font-families, what do you use stylesheets for? Unlike 
font-family suggestions, stipulations of color, margins, padding, and 
other properties really are commands and will be carried out in most 
browsers. {margin-left: 10px;} doesn't say to the browser if you 
feel like it, it says just do it. If you do use stylesheets at 
all, it strikes me as odd that you would take exception to named 
font-families, the one aspect of CSS that is the least controlling of all.


Curiously,

Paul
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Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
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Re: [WSG] more on fonts

2009-06-22 Thread Paul Novitski

At 6/22/2009 05:00 AM, Marvin Hunkin wrote:

hi.
well, the subject that i was taking, and the web page for pinciples of
visual design, my professor, said i have to had fonts, in the style sheet.
that was the requirmenet of this site i was doing for a fruit shop.



Just as a reality check, let me go over how this works.

You don't have to have any particular fonts on your own computer in 
order to designate them in a web page.


You create a web page on your computer, upload it to the server, and 
after that each visitor who sees the page downloads it to their 
computer where it is displayed (rendered). It is the fonts installed 
on each visitor's computer that determine how the text will be 
displayed on their screens.


If you specify font-families in the stylesheet, you're not DICTATING 
what font must appear, you're only SUGGESTING which fonts you'd like 
to appear. If a font you've requested isn't installed, it doesn't 
show up; that simple.


If you use the stylesheet to ask that some text be rendered in a very 
common font such as Arial, it will be displayed in Arial on the vast 
majority of visitors' computers. If you use a more unusual font, only 
a small number of visitors might have that font and see it on the 
page. Everyone else will see your 2nd or 3rd choice font for that text.


For example, if your stylesheet says:

h1
{
font-family: Gothic Rare, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;
}

...then the visitor's browser checks to see if it can find a match 
with any of the fonts in the list. Gothic Rare will not be found 
anywhere because I just made it up. Helvetica is far from universally 
installed, but Arial is extremely common so most people will see the 
text in Arial. If none of those three fonts is found, 'sans-serif' 
tells the browser to use whatever its default sans serif font is 
which might easily be different on every computer.


A sans serif font is a font with no serifs. See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sans_serif

Does that help clarify any of this?

Regards,

Paul
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Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
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Re: [WSG] Using background images on submit buttons

2009-06-18 Thread Paul Novitski

At 6/17/2009 06:45 PM, Jens-Uwe Korff wrote:
on an ASP.NET-driven site we'd like to use background images for 
flexible-width submit inputs.


Due to the .NET limitation we cannot use the button tag and are 
stuck with the following syntax:


input type=submit value=Button Text /

Did you ever style these submit inputs with background images that 
allowed a flexible width?



I have successfully applied a background image to input, for example 
the join-list form on this pre-launch site:

http://innerpeaceyogatherapy.com.s9135.gridserver.com/

I consider the above solution, with its single background image, to 
be a mediocre, interim placeholder approach because this image with 
its rounded corners doesn't support text-resizing well. If you 
enlarge text separately from layout, the background image repeats, 
spoiling the cosmetic effect. (We're using a fixed width in this 
instance, but the same applies to horizontal repeats.) In this 
particular case our background image is such that input text remains 
legible on enlargement but we sacrifice the cosmetic single-pill 
appearance. If we were using a plain rectangle with at most say a 
uni-directional gradient but without special top-  side-caps, we 
could simply allow it to repeat vertically  horizontally without 
cosmetic penalty.


To support rounded corners in an enlargeable context, I'd surround 
each input control with a matrix of divs and apply fragmented 
background images to those parts to allow for variable height  
width. ...Pending universal implementation of CSS3's multiple backgrounds!


One of the usability/accessibility problems with background images on 
input fields is that in order for the background image to display you 
need to override the default border  background color. Then if you 
disable images the input field disappears. I suppose a workaround 
would be possible in which the input field is positioned on top of a 
div with a border and/or background color that would show through if 
the input's background image were missing from the rendering.


Regards,

Paul
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Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
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Re: [WSG] Using background images on submit buttons

2009-06-18 Thread Paul Novitski

At 6/17/2009 06:45 PM, Jens-Uwe Korff wrote:
on an ASP.NET-driven site we'd like to use background images for 
flexible-width submit inputs.


(I apologize for getting off-topic and discussing text inputs 
instead. Too little sleep!) 




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Re: [WSG] returning to scroll position in a table inside a fixed hight div

2009-06-15 Thread Paul Novitski

At 6/14/2009 06:02 PM, Andrew Stewart wrote:


If you can improve the user experience using JS (why else would you be
spending time on it) then you must accept that the user experience for
those 10% without JS is going to be worse and hence they are less
likely to buy from you, or give you some kind of revenue. Is it really
worth spending all this effort to cater for users that in the end may
only account for a tiny percentage of sales?



Conversely, if you start out by building a robust site with 
server-side scripting, and then add JavaScript as an enhancement on 
top, you'll be spending the extra time catering to those with 
JavaScript, not those without, and by your way of thinking those are 
the folks who are more likely to bring in more revenue, so the 
financial model would fit the demographics.


However, if someone's not using JavaScript on your site, they 
probably aren't using it on sites in general. Rather than compare 
their likelihood to buy with others of your customers who do run JS, 
compare their experience on your site with their experience on other 
sites -- the folks you're competing with. If someone is driven to 
your site because the competing sites are broken or clumsy without 
JS, then making your own site work competently without JS is a 
revenue generator. If you try to cut costs by shutting out that 10% 
or whatever of potential buyers, you're simply driving them to 
competitors whose sites they can use. I don't see the bottom-line 
benefit of that.


Ten percent, by the way, is an enormous number.

I mean, you have to start out by building a robust site -- that's 
bottom-line, right? You don't go into it with a goal to build a 
broken one. Is it more time-consuming to build a site that works with 
and without JavaScript than to build one that breaks without it? 
Where would the time-savings come in the development plan? If you're 
validating a form with JS, you still have to validate it server-side 
so you don't invite hackers. If you're using Ajax to update the 
server, you still need to write those server-side modules to receive, 
validate, and process the data; whether the update mechanism is an 
HTML form submit or a JavaScript XMLHttpRequest you still have to 
write the same core back-end code. We can certainly imagine pages 
such as drag--drop layout modifiers whose user interfaces would 
likely have to be radically different if pulled off completely 
server-side, but by far most websites have user interfaces that can 
look very similar if not identical without JavaScript; it's just 
their response time that isn't as instantaneous when it comes to, 
say, forms morphing as the user drills into the options. That said, 
client-server round trips on broadband are pretty fast these days and 
people are accustomed to waiting for page refreshes on most sites, so 
I don't think most people would consider that aspect to be a 
sale-killer. I don't see, for example, Amazon.com suffering for lack 
of sales because people are too impatient to wait for page refreshes.




I am not saying this is
definitely the case, but plain statistics about how many users have JS
or flash or siverlight etc don't tell you the full story. If a
developer has X amount of hours to spend on a site, then it is
possible that the most effective way to increase revenue of that site
might be to forget about people without JS etc and just create the
best experience for the majority of internet users.


That's graceful degradation talking. Sit tight, we're sending over 
the deprogrammers.




Sorry if this sounds a bit like heresy.


No worries -- a) it ain't religion and b) thinking people welcome heresy.

Regards,

Paul
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Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
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Re: [WSG] returning to scroll position in a table inside a fixed hight div

2009-06-14 Thread Paul Novitski

At 6/14/2009 02:25 AM, Ido dekkers wrote:

thanks for the help

but for some reason, the #id works only for rows that are visible to 
start with?

i added id= to all rows and the #id works only up to row 4?


In the earlier page you posted there were ids in only the first four 
TRs in the HTML source. In its current iteration, I see ids in all 
twenty rows, and the URI fragment approach does work, e.g.

http://test3.dekkers.net/policies/viewer.htm#tr10



how do i get the scrollTop ?


https://developer.mozilla.org/en/DOM/element.scrollTop

Because scrollTop is pixel-based, does it fail to give you the effect 
you're looking for when the user changes text size in mid-process? If so,


Keep in mind as always that a JavaScript solution will not work in 
user agents not running JavaScript, which can include search engines, 
mobile devices, assistive technology, browsers in certain corporate 
contexts in which JavaScript is globally turned off or stripped out 
of incoming pages by firewalls, old browsers, and modern browsers 
used by folks who turn it off for whatever reason. A developer 
embracing progressive enhancement (q.v.) will first make sure that 
the page works for everyone and then add client-side scripting to 
make it faster and cooler for people using script-enabled UAs.


Your policies/viewer page is dead as a doornail without JavaScript 
running, but it doesn't have to be. It's like you've put all your 
energy into the icing but forgot to bake the cake. In my own 
experience, getting a page to work first without JavaScript leads me 
to such elegant solutions that I end up adding less JavaScript than I 
had originally thought I would, so everyone wins: the page works 
universally and it's lighter-weight and more bulletproof for JS-enabled users.


Regards,

Paul
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+1 250-226-7050
skype juniperpaul 




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Re: [WSG] returning to scroll position in a table inside a fixed hight div

2009-06-14 Thread Paul Novitski

I incompletely wrote:
Because scrollTop is pixel-based, does it fail to give you the 
effect you're looking for when the user changes text size in 
mid-process? If so,


If so, consider whether the auto-scrolling is critical to the 
functionality of the page and how confusing it might be if the table 
auto-scrolls to a different row than was just edited. If both answers 
are Yes, you may wish to consider a more bulletproof solution.


Paul 




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[WSG] functionality without JavaScript [WAS: returning to scroll position in a table inside a fixed hight div]

2009-06-14 Thread Paul Novitski

At 6/14/2009 11:28 AM, raven wrote:

 Keep in mind as always that a JavaScript solution will not work in
 user agents not running JavaScript,
which can include search engines,
 mobile devices, assistive technology, browsers in certain corporate
 contexts in which JavaScript is globally turned off or stripped out
 of incoming pages by firewalls, old browsers, and modern browsers
 used by folks who turn it off for whatever reason.

Hmmm... what exactly problem can cause using of 
JavaScript *in this case* from SEO point of view?


Not having seen the original poster's development 
plan, we can't judge whether any of the parts 
that are broken without JavaScript will 
deleteriously affect its search engine ranking. 
Because the page was SO dead without JavaScript, 
I made the assumption that the author wasn't 
considering scriptless UAs and therefore my remarks were intended generally.




Or what browser, *witch you really support*, don't support JS?


In my own work, my CSS support for mobile devices 
has lagged, but as my pages all work 100% in the 
absence of JavaScript (which I do use in every 
site I produce) I can say I do support to that 
extent all the JavaScript-disabled user agents 
listed at the beginning of this post. (Also I do 
support witches, but that's off-topic.)



And what part of your target auditory even know 
how to disable JavaScript execution in their browsers?

Don't use common words! Give us facts, numbers, tests.


So, for example, if I could give you the number 
of individuals who would be unable to use a 
website because I built it to unnecessarily 
require JavaScript, then would you be able to 
tell me whether that was an acceptable sacrifice 
in terms of loss of revenue to the client, loss 
of good will, negative reviews, and negative 
viral spread? What percentage of your clients' 
target audiences have you decided to block from 
the sites you build for no reason other than that 
you enjoy building cool user interfaces in 
JavaScript? If a website client of yours hired 
you to manage an actual storefront and you 
arbitrarily slammed the door in the face of every 
100th, 200th, or even 1000th customer, how long 
do you think would you keep your job?




But graceful degradation is good idea.


Graceful degradation is better than nothing, but progressive enhancement rocks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_enhancement
http://accessites.org/site/2007/02/graceful-degradation-progressive-enhancement/


If you have enough time and budget big enough 
you may look for solutions for case when JavaScript is disabled.


I don't need to. I build sites to work well with 
server-side scripting, then I enhance the 
client-side experience with JavaScript. I don't 
have to justify extra work to make a site 
functional for any size of sub-market or worry 
about how many people it's OK to piss off if the 
site already works for every user agent. I don't 
provide core functionality with JavaScript. I 
learned the hard way that doing things the other 
way around is time-consuming, expensive, and 
frustrating. JavaScript is fun, but you aren't 
going to survive long if you consistently eat 
your dessert before your vegetables. No, first 
you build a car that runs well, then you add the 
chrome and fancy sound system. I'd better stop 
before I think of any more metaphors to throw in the pot. Oops, too late.



P.S. In ordinar case if you can get 
functionality, you need, without JS — do it.


Exactly.


To everyone, I apologize for indulging in a 
philosophical argument that has already seen so 
much traffic. Reviewing the wsg list guidelines, 
I hope this falls into the category of discussing best practices.


Regards,

Paul
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Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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Re: [WSG] returning to scroll position in a table inside a fixed hight div

2009-06-13 Thread Paul Novitski

At 6/13/2009 02:20 PM, Ido dekkers wrote:

i'm trying to find a way to get back to the same position in a table
that is nested in a fixed height div.

only 4 lines of the table are showing and i need after post to the
server to get back to the selected line

any suggestions are welcome

the case in question :
http://test3.dekkers.net/policies/viewer.htm



Just as you would in a broader context, give each TR a unique ID and 
add it to the URL to bring it to the top of the (div) window, e.g. 
http://test3.dekkers.net/policies/viewer.htm#tr4


By the way, the HTML validator caught an illegal  character on line 
159 span/span. And did you save the source file as utf-8?

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Ftest3.dekkers.net%2Fpolicies%2Fviewer.htm

Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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Re: [WSG] What to do with buttons when a user copies text from a page.

2009-06-12 Thread Paul Novitski

At 6/12/2009 01:42 AM, James Ducker wrote:
Something I've been pondering - how best to handle buttons and other 
purely functional content residing within a block of selected text? 
Often a user will select a bunch of text and get something like:


 Some Headingminimiseclose
 Some text etc etc.

I was thinking about adding JS mouse drag detection to hide 
minimise and close (let's say they're a elements) when the 
user is mouse-selecting text, but it would fail if a user used the 
text cursor to select.



It sounds as though you've already answered your own question -- 
don't let the controls reside within the block of copyable text. In 
most circumstances the user will want to copy the header along with 
the body text of a given section, so rather than inserting the 
controls in the middle of copyable text I'd put them before or after. 
If you want the controls to appear to the right of the heading in a 
left-to-right text flow, you could try putting them first in the 
markup and then floating them right or absolutely positioning them so 
the heading and text are contiguous.


A more elegant  bulletproof solution might be to rethink the page 
layout and visually place the controls above or to the left of the 
heading to allow the natural text flow to exclude them from 
selection. If the controls look like they're in the middle of the 
copyable text, a user with browsing experience will naturally worry 
that the controls will get copied along with the text, diminishing 
very slightly their sense of trust in the intuitiveness of the 
design. A layout that puts them outside the selection highlight 
altogether -- modelled by the resize  close buttons in pc  mac 
windows that everyone's familiar with -- would be more of a no-brainer to use.


Finding a way to reliably make the controls disappear while the user 
selects text sounds cool -- I can imagine all the ads and navigation 
and chromy bits disappearing while copying a story from a news site, 
for example, leaving my clipboard with the story I'm after not 
needing to be cleaned up -- but it also sounds a bit paternalistic in 
deciding in advance for an unknown user what they're going to want to 
select. If you place the controls before the heading in the markup, 
you leave it to the user to decide whether to include them in the 
selection highlight. For all you know, their purpose in copying text 
from the page is to illustrate in a document that aspect of the page 
layout that includes the controls. There's such a thing as trying to 
be too helpful.


Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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Re: [WSG] Image mapping standards question

2009-06-02 Thread Paul Novitski

At 6/1/2009 07:34 AM, Brett Patterson wrote:
It has recently come to my attention the struggles of an end-user 
when viewing images for any user. I have seen sites such as 
Facebook, MySpace, and other sites where pictures are hosted use 
roll-overs for recognizing certain parts of an image. I realize that 
this can be done using image maps as well as when using image 
mapping, I can add alternative text not only to the img tag itself, 
but the maps as well to show and describe certain features I feel 
are important. Are there recommendations for or against this approach?



Also consider CSS image maps with pop-ups, e.g.: 
http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menu/imap by Stu Nicholls.


Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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[WSG] Test in Outlook 2007

2009-04-29 Thread Paul Collins
Hi all,

Just wondering, has anyone ever figured out a way of testing Outlook 2007 when 
you don't have it installed? Wondering if there is some kind of online software 
that emulates it perhaps?

Campaign Monitor offers testing, but it costs a fiver each time you want to 
check.

Would appreciate any help.
Cheers
Paul


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Re: [WSG] Borders in liquid layouts

2009-04-17 Thread Paul Novitski

At 4/17/2009 11:18 AM, Stevio wrote:
I have created a web site design, with a graphical border down the 
sides of the design (15px wide on each side).


To implement this using CSS would be quite simple if the design had 
a fixed width, but I am looking to implement a liquid layout.


Essentially I reckon it comes down to equal height columns in liquid 
layouts. Any suggestions on how to best accomplish this?



You could wrap the columns in a nested pair of parent containers that 
stretch naturally to contain the widest  tallest of their children, 
then apply one border to the left side of outer parent and the other 
border to the right side of the inner parent.


div id=parent-outer
div id=parent-inner
div id=column-1
/div
div id=column-2
/div
/div
/div

Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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Re: [WSG] 3 column layout issue

2009-03-18 Thread Paul Novitski

At 3/18/2009 12:49 AM, Naveen Bhaskar wrote:

Hi,

I have a 3 column layout structure. My issue is the content of the 
center column is shifting down . pls help me to fix this..



First, test your markup and styling using these validators and make 
sure there are no errors.


HTML:   http://validator.w3.org/
CSS:http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/

Second, give us a hyperlink to a page on a server where we can see 
the problem occurring.  There are a number of reasons why this could 
be happening and we'd have to see your markup  styling to help troubleshoot.


Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com 




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RE: [WSG] Implication of empty divs

2009-02-09 Thread Paul Collins
Isn't CSS about seperating presentation from content? You apply it once in your 
CSS as opposed to multiple times in your HTML.

In actual fact, if you're only developing for IE6+, Firefox 2+, Webkit 
Browsers, Opera, you only need the overflow:auto; usually.



-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On 
Behalf Of Chris F.A. Johnson
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 8:45 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Implication of empty divs

On Mon, 9 Feb 2009, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote:

 On 9/2/09 07:45, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
 How can CSS overflow replace div style=clear:both;/div?

 See http://www.ejeliot.com/blog/59

  Thanks, but I find the extra DIV no more objectionable than the
  hackery and extra CSS described in that article.

--
Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster http://woodbine-gerrard.com
===
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)


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RE: [WSG] Clearing a row with floated list li

2009-02-02 Thread Paul Collins
Thanks very much for that James,

I was trying to avoid using the conditional comments - I don't normally use 
them, but it seems the only way in this case. I've put that in now, so thanks 
very much for your help.

Cheers
Paul



From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On 
Behalf Of James Ducker
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 1:12 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Clearing a row with floated list li

I fixed it in IE7, though that caused the problem that was occuring in IE7 to 
occur in Firefox. If you don't mind a conditional, problem solved!

See it at: http://studioj.net.au/wsg/pcl.html

- James


On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Paul Collins 
p.coll...@twentyfirst.commailto:p.coll...@twentyfirst.com wrote:
Thanks for your replies everyone.

I'm not explaining the problem well, so I've created a demo page:
http://paulcollinslondon.com/temporary/test.html

If you take a look at it in IE7 and Firefox, you should be able to see the 
difference. The first li is taller than the second one, causing the fourth 
one to float up higher than the third, (in IE only). If I clear the left, it 
works in Firefox, but in IE the fourth one still floats up. I know I've solved 
this a while back and I've seen solutions on the internet, but for the life of 
me I cannot find them again!

Any ideas would be most appreciated.
Cheers
Paul



-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.orgmailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org 
[mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.orgmailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On 
Behalf Of Gunlaug Sørtun
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 5:54 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgmailto:wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Clearing a row with floated list li

Paul Collins wrote:

 I can add a class of clear to every third list item, which is great,
 but I'm still having troubles in getting them to behave in IE.
 Has anyone got a solution, or seen on online lately?!

Didn't check for the actual case, but it's usually safer to declare
'clear: left' than 'clear: both' when trying to clear left-floats in IE.
IE has quite a few 'clear' related bugs, and I think this is one of them.

regards
   Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no


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--
James Ducker
Web Developer
http://www.studioj.net.au

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RE: [WSG] Clearing a row with floated list li

2009-01-30 Thread Paul Collins
Thanks for your replies everyone.

I'm not explaining the problem well, so I've created a demo page:
http://paulcollinslondon.com/temporary/test.html

If you take a look at it in IE7 and Firefox, you should be able to see the 
difference. The first li is taller than the second one, causing the fourth 
one to float up higher than the third, (in IE only). If I clear the left, it 
works in Firefox, but in IE the fourth one still floats up. I know I've solved 
this a while back and I've seen solutions on the internet, but for the life of 
me I cannot find them again!

Any ideas would be most appreciated.
Cheers
Paul



-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On 
Behalf Of Gunlaug Sørtun
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 5:54 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Clearing a row with floated list li

Paul Collins wrote:

 I can add a class of clear to every third list item, which is great,
 but I'm still having troubles in getting them to behave in IE.
 Has anyone got a solution, or seen on online lately?!

Didn't check for the actual case, but it's usually safer to declare
'clear: left' than 'clear: both' when trying to clear left-floats in IE.
IE has quite a few 'clear' related bugs, and I think this is one of them.

regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no


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[WSG] Clearing a row with floated list li

2009-01-29 Thread Paul Collins
Hi all,

I'm surprised I can't find the answer to this on the interweb; I haven't had to 
do it for a while!

I have a list of about 10 items, all of varying heights (but fixed widths), in 
a single ul. I want to clear every third list item and start a new row. Of 
course, if they are different heights, the list items will float all over the 
place - I'm sure we've all been through this!

I can add a class of clear to every third list item, which is great, but I'm 
still having troubles in getting them to behave in IE. Has anyone got a 
solution, or seen on online lately?!

Here is the code:

CSS
ul#imageLibraryList li {float:left; width:150px; display:inline; margin:0 20px 
15px 0;}
ul#imageLibraryList li.clearLine {clear:both;}

HTML
ul id=imageLibraryList
 li class=clearLine
  a href=/
   img 
src=/http://xpdev2.thegoodagency.co.uk/ahec/typo3temp/ahecimagelibrary/d_1297_148_148_75.jpg
 alt= /
   strongAlder_140x30.jpg/strongbr/
   dfjdsflkjlk
  /a
 /li
 li
  a href=/
   img 
src=/http://xpdev2.thegoodagency.co.uk/ahec/typo3temp/ahecimagelibrary/d_1291_148_148_75.jpg
 alt= /
   strongAlder_140x30_BUMP.jpg/strongbr/
  /a
 /li
 li class=clearLine
  a href=/
   img 
src=/http://xpdev2.thegoodagency.co.uk/ahec/typo3temp/ahecimagelibrary/d_1152_148_148_75.jpg
 alt= /
   strongAlder_190x30.jpg/strongbr/
  /a
 /li
 li
  a href=/
   img 
src=/http://xpdev2.thegoodagency.co.uk/ahec/typo3temp/ahecimagelibrary/d_1252_148_148_75.jpg
 alt= /
   strongAlder_190x30_BUMP.jpg/strongbr/
asdsdfdssf
/a
 /li
 li class=clearLine
  a href=/
   img 
src=/http://xpdev2.thegoodagency.co.uk/ahec/typo3temp/ahecimagelibrary/d_1202_148_148_75.jpg
 alt= /
   strongAlder_240x30.jpg/strongbr/
  /a
 /li
 li
  a href=/
   img 
src=/http://xpdev2.thegoodagency.co.uk/ahec/typo3temp/ahecimagelibrary/d_1181_148_148_75.jpg
 alt= /
   strongAlder_240x30_BUMP.jpg/strongbr/
  /a
 /li
/ul

Please ignore invalid code, I can assure you it's not finished! Just want to 
figure out a way to clear the line in all relevant browsers.
Cheers
Paul


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[WSG] seeking JavaScript Bible comments

2009-01-28 Thread Paul Novitski

I would love to get your critical comments on Danny Goodman's JavaScript Bible
http://ca.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0470069163.html

I'm updating the book to its 7th edition and am making some 
significant changes, including upgrading it to include separation of 
layers  progressive enhancement.


Do you have any other criticisms of the book, either minor or major, 
that I should consider in the rewrite?  I would be grateful for your 
detailed remarks.


Thanks,

Paul  




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RE: [WSG] Re: Users who deliberately disable JavaScript

2009-01-26 Thread Paul Hudson
Doesn't ie6's highest security setting turn js off? I haven't looked at ie7 but 
would assume similar.

Regards
Paul


-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On 
Behalf Of Simon Pascal Klein
Sent: Tuesday, 27 January 2009 2:59 PM
To: Jessica Enders
Cc: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Re: Users who deliberately disable JavaScript

Comments inline:

On 27/01/2009, at 7:33 AM, Jessica Enders wrote:

 Hi Pascal

 In the JavaScript/Accessibility/form validation discussion you
 mention the growing number of users who purposefully disable
 JavaScript. I'm always curious just how many people this is.

 Do you, or does anyone else, have any statistics on this? Is there a
 reason you describe it as a growing number?

 Any information greatly appreciated.

No, I don't have access to any statistics on the matter. I want to
clarify that my comment does not address the growing number of new
Internet users who most likely will have JavaScript turned on or the
majority of users in a holistic sense. I don't think the users that
disable JS are a majority but I definitely think they are on the rise
as many security experts are recommending JS to be disabled by default.

Whether or not JS-disabled users are a statistic worth noting should
not be in question here. I think Anthony Ziebell puts it best:

JavaScript should be implemented only to supplement / layer existing
functionality. Your site should operate just fine without it... There
are always exceptions to this rule however you shouldn't let
JavaScript dictate how you code.


Kind regards.

-Pascal


 Cheers

 Jessica Enders
 Principal
 Formulate Information Design
 
 http://formulate.com.au
 
 Phone: (02) 6116 8765
 Fax: (02) 8456 5916
 PO Box 5108
 Braddon ACT 2612
 

 On 19/01/2009, at 11:14 PM, Simon Pascal Klein wrote:

 If there were further communication between the user and server
 between submission of the form that would entail a page reload then
 a screen user shouldn't have an issue, whereas if JavaScript would
 run in the background and inject errors or suggestions as it thinks
 the user makes them (e.g. password complexity recommendations,
 username not available messages) numerous accessibility issues arise.

 The only solution that came to mind was having a generic message
 (such as 'please fill out all marked (*) fields' or the like) that
 could be hidden using CSS and through JavaScript 'unhidden' when an
 error appears (though it could only be a generic error). As dandy
 as these automatic feedback and error messages are through
 JavaScript maybe a full submission and subsequent page reload is
 best-after all it's impossible to tell those users using an
 accessibility aid like a screen reader from those who do not, and
 hey, the growing number of users who purposefully disable
 JavaScript won't see the glitzy JavaScript injected errors anyway.

 Just my 0.2¢.


 On 19/01/2009, at 5:52 PM, Rimantas Liubertas wrote:

 Isn't 'aria-required' a non-standard attribute?

 Sadly, yes. But there is some hope: it is possible that ARIA will be
 accepted in HTML5 and there is an initiative to provide validation
 for
 (X)HTML+ARIA: 
 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2008Sep/0381.html

 Validator.nu already has experimental support for HTML5+ARIA, and I
 believe (did not check) http://qa-dev.w3.org/wmvs/HEAD/ provides the
 same for document type HTML5.

 There is also a possibility to add ARIA attributes with Javascript.
 All the options are controversial, but that's how it is for now :(

 Regards,
 Rimantas
 --
 http://rimantas.com/


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 ---
 Simon Pascal Klein
 Concept designer

 (w) http://klepas.org
 (e) kle...@klepas.org



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---
Simon Pascal Klein
Graphic  Web Designer

Web: http://klepas.org
E-mai: kle...@klepas.org
Twitter: @klepas; http://twitter.com/klepas


Kaffee und Kuchen.



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RE: [WSG] Browser / OS Test on website.

2009-01-14 Thread Paul Collins
Hi Danny,

The site looks great, just had a quick flick through. My only suggestion would 
be to repeat the main navigation at the bottom of each section, so you don't 
have to go back to the top every time you've read the section.

Cheers
Paul



From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On 
Behalf Of Danny Croft
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 8:03 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Browser / OS Test on website.

Hi All,

I was wondering if any of you get a spare minute, could you cast your 
professional eyes over a site I just put online. Its only a small online resume 
type site. But I'd be interested to see if anyone could find any issues with it 
or had any suggestions for items that I may have missed. I have done some 
testing and it passed the online W3C Validation Service for both the markup and 
CSS. Also if anyone is running an OS other than OSX (v 10.5.6) then I'd be 
interested in your results on any of the current browers.

Like I said, only if you get a minute.

Link: http://dannythewebdev.com   (almost forgot to add the link)

Cheers,

Danny

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RE: [WSG] Fw: The Great Firewall of Australia

2008-11-27 Thread Paul Collins
I'm not sure if this will make it to the table, but it is truly worrying.

 If they went to the extremes outlined though, don't you think that generally 
 the public (not just the
 web development community) would put up such a stink about it, the 
 government would be forced into
 taking several steps back.

The things is, once they implement something like this, as other laws, it's 
hard to turn it back and get rid of it, no matter who we vote for next. The 
people with the strongest voices are these lobbying groups, such as Getup, but 
most of them represent religious views and those of the older generations, who 
would easily be scared into thinking that we need internet censorship or else.

 Last time I checked, Australia was still a democracy, and while *somebody* 
 must have voted for Conroy,
 we (Australians) still get a say.

Even if you voted for him, you don't have too much control over what he does 
for the 4 years after that. How often do you pop down and visit your local 
senator for a chat?!

I hope the Getup campaign gets enough votes to put this to a halt. Glad we have 
Getup out there.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dennis Suitters
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 5:37 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Fw: The Great Firewall of Australia

Yes, real, definitely. But think about it, the government would already, and in 
some part already do filter information. If they went to the extremes outlined 
though, don't you think that generally the public (not just the web development 
community) would put up such a stink about it, the government would be forced 
into taking several steps back.

Unfortunately though, even though the government is supposed to work in the 
best interests of it's people, they don't in the long run.



Blake wrote:
 On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Anthony Ziebell
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Oh, it's certainly not spam. It's been all over news, whirlpool, everywhere.


 Yes, it's definitely real. I feel ashamed of being Australian right there.

 --
 Blake Haswell
 http://www.blakehaswell.com/ | http://blakehaswell.wordpress.com/


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RE: [WSG] is there a way to force legend text shows in TWO lines?

2008-11-27 Thread Paul Collins
Hi all,

Just to elaborate on this one, has anyone ever found a way to remove the left 
indent on the legend element in IE? I don't care if I have to add a SPAN inside 
the LEGEND element, I just want to make sure the text will be left aligned 
correctly in all browsers.

Please send a link if you know a good one!
Cheers


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tee
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 2:43 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] is there a way to force legend text shows in TWO lines?


On Nov 26, 2008, at 6:15 PM, Ben Buchanan wrote:


 2) I have a column that is 160px wide, but the text in legend is a bit
 longer, I added a span class, declared a width, but in Firefox, the
 text still refuse to run in two lines - the rest of the text simply
 get cut off when the words reaches 160px threshold. I really don't
 want to add a br /, and it will be more ridiculous to use a p tag
 for the text so that I can force it display exactly the way my client
 wanted, then use a negative text-indent to hide the legend.
 Did you set the span to display: block?


Yes, that is the first thing I did. No use.
Here is a quick page I just did.

http://lotusseedsdesign.com/csstest/legend.html

tee


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RE: [WSG] Fw: The Great Firewall of Australia

2008-11-27 Thread Paul Collins
Just to add to this, you can monitor Senator Conroy via email updates and 
message him through the Getup wesbite.
http://www.projectdemocracy.com/senator/senator.php?senatorid=15



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jelina Korhecz
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 12:50 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Fw: The Great Firewall of Australia

I agree with Dave--a letter to Senator Conroy is the best approach.
The website previously mentioned (http://nocleanfeed.com/) is also a good place 
to start if you want to take action.

I'm extremely concerned about this plan (and have been since I heard about it a 
months ago) because at first it seemed like everyone in a position of power 
thought it was a good idea... despite the fact that their filtering trials 
clearly showed that a mandatory filter wasn't feasible with the technology 
currently available.

Luckily (and I apologise if this has already been mentioned in a previous 
email), iiNet--an Australian ISP--has signed up to the live testing that is due 
to begin mid-December.  They have said that they will take part in this test to 
demonstrate to the government how ineffective an ISP level filter is at the 
present time.  You can check out what they have to say about it on their 
website:
http://www.iinet.net.au/about/news/internet_filtering.html

Unfortunately, iiNet have received bad press lately because of a lawsuit 
brought upon them by the AFACT (Australian Federation Against Copyright 
Theft--see http://www.lawfont.com/2008/11/21/the-case-against-iinet/ for more 
info).  However, some are saying that this case and iiNet's position on the 
mandatory filtering scheme are connected (which is why the AFACT went after 
iiNet and not a larger ISP like Telstra Bigpond), but I'll let you make your 
own mind up about the link between the two.
(See http://defendingscoundrels.com/2008/11/iinet-lawsuit-no-coincidence.html
for more.)

Don't get me wrong--anything that can stop something that is as horrible as 
child porn I support.  But I honestly do not think this has any chance of 
working.  Please do what you can to help stop this filter going ahead.  
Otherwise I might need to move countries  :(

My 2c  :)


On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 10:42 PM, IceKat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I wouldn't have sent this to the group if I'd had even the slightest
 idea it was spam. Getup.org.au is a genuinely good site.

 IceKat.



 Brett Patterson wrote:

 1) That, I do believe is a crock of shit!
 2) If he does anything like that, he will be dead!!!

 --and--

 3) Anyone who believes in those ideas are fucked up, stupid, and this
 I can promise, will NOT make it in this world, dead or alive!
 4) Like I said, I think this a crock of shit, and possibly spam.

 On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 9:56 PM, IceKat [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hi,

Usually I'm suspicious of this stuff but I happen to know that Get
Up is legit and thought the Aussie members of this list might like
to know about this.

IceKat.


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Thought you might be interested
Love Mum
- Original Message -
http://www.getup.org.au/campaign/SaveTheNet?dc=564,324731,1

Dear Helen,

Imagine a government proposing an internet censorship system that
went further than any other democracy - one that made the internet
up to 87% slower, more expensive, accidentally blocked up to one
in 12 legitimate sites, and missed the vast majority of
inappropriate content.

This is not China, Saudi Arabia or Iran - this is the vision of
Senator Stephen Conroy for Australia. *Testing has already begun.*
The community must now move to stop this plan. *Click here to save
the net:*

*www.getup.org.au/campaign/SaveTheNet*
http://www.getup.org.au/campaign/SaveTheNet?dc=564,324731,1

The system that Senator Conroy wants is *a mandatory filter of all
internet traffic*, with the government of the day able to add any
unwanted site to a secret blacklist. Already, the wrangling has
begun for the inclusion of material relating to anorexia,
euthanasia and gambling. It isn't difficult to see *the scheme is
open to abuse*.

Even when it comes to preventing child p-rnography, the filter
will not prevent peer-to-peer sharing and is very simple to
sidestep. *The protection of our children is vitally important* -
that's why we can't afford to waste funds on this deeply flawed
system. We should be concentrating on solutions that are more
effective and won't undermine our digital economy or our
 

RE: [WSG] Who are the Away on leave Notices from?

2008-11-05 Thread Paul Bennett
Just auto replies from list members away on leave (who have set their 'out of 
office' setting to 'on')

It is annoying, but in saying that I'm probably guilty of it at times ;)


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RE: [WSG] Accessible and cross browser online slide system

2008-10-21 Thread Paul Bennett
Lisa,

On behalf of other list members, any chance of turning return receipts off?

:)
Paul


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[WSG] Email form builder

2008-10-20 Thread Paul Collins
Hi all,

Does anyone know of a free online resource for building a form that sends an 
email? One that's aimed at people with limited knowledge of databases. I'm 
trying to locate one for a friend. He'd like to add his own customisable fields 
too. Most of the ones I am searching for want you to pay for it.

Would really appreciate any help.


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RE: [WSG] Browser loading images issue

2008-10-15 Thread Paul Bennett
Hi there,

A bit left field, but I've had this issues *similar* to this before. It sounds 
like a network or ISP cache issue.

Once it was a company proxy not grabbing the latest files from the webserver 
and serving up old code, the other time, an ISP was caching website data in 
their proxy to limit load on their webservers.

In the 2nd instance, we had to call the ISP and have them manually remove the 
domain form their cache list.

You may want to contact the ISP / hosting company to make sure the site isn't 
on a cache list.

Worth a shot (the site looks fine for me here in New Zealand :) )

Paul


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[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest

2008-09-13 Thread Cantwell, Paul F
I am out of the office on Friday, September 12, 2008. 

I will monitor my e-mails and phone messages via my Blackberry and will respond 
when I am able to do so. 

If there are any issues that that require an immediate response, please contact 
Mark Costello, Mike May, or Terry Coullette. 

Thank-you,
Paul

Paul F. Cantwell
Systems Librarian/Web-Content Manager

United States Department of Justice
Washington, DC 20530
Desk: 202.616.0985
Mobile: 202.532.5392


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[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest

2008-09-09 Thread Cantwell, Paul F
I am currently out of the office. I hope to return to the office on Wednesday, 
September 10 . 

I will monitor my e-mails and phone messages via my Blackberry and will respond 
when I am able to do so. 

If there are any issues that that require an immediate response, please contact 
Mark Costello, Mike May, or Terry Coullette. 

Thank-you,
Paul

Paul F. Cantwell
Systems Librarian/Web-Content Manager

United States Department of Justice
Washington, DC 20530
Desk: 202.616.0985
Mobile: 202.532.5392


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RE: [WSG] Google chrome... Coming very soon...

2008-09-02 Thread Paul Bennett
Unless you're behind a firewall which requires proxy auth. In this case, you'll 
need to wait until tonight :(

http://thingsilearn.wordpress.com/2008/03/05/attention-software-developers-dont-make-assumptions-about-my-internet-connection/



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RE: [WSG] Google chrome... Coming very soon...

2008-09-02 Thread Paul Bennett
Hi Tee,

According to product info, it's been in private beta for a while.
This is the first public beta (well, to 100 or so countries anyway)

Rest assured a Mac ( *Nix ?) version will follow soon :)

Paul


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RE: [WSG] H1 and the img tag

2008-08-25 Thread Paul Bennett
Hi Schalk,

Glad you raised this.
We built a new section of our site a while ago which required different 
treatment from our normal text h1's. I looked at the image replacement route 
and found the approaches kludgy and overwrought.
I ended up doing exactly what you said:

h1a img src= alt=Page Heading ../h1

Looks fine, and the pages revert back to the standard h1 text style when images 
are off.
You can see the results here:
http://tinyurl.com/5b3bwg

The image inside the h1 is simple, accessible and effective. Go with your gut :)

Paul


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RE: [WSG] H1 and the img tag

2008-08-25 Thread Paul Bennett
Hi Michael,

While that is possible, unfortunately the h1 text doesn't display when images 
are off and css is still in use.
This is the issue many image replacement techniques sought to address.

Paul


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RE: [WSG] Shopping cart - who does what

2008-08-13 Thread Paul Collins
Hi Joe,

Can you recommend a shopping cart system that is easy to set up and use, be it 
open source or not? Trying to make a decision myself at the moment and would be 
interested to hear your thoughts.

Cheers
Paul


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joseph Ortenzi
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 10:57 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Shopping cart - who does what

why would it not work as a directory under the main site tree, i.e.: 
www.domain.com.au/shop/http://www.domain.com.au/shop/.

I think developers are keen on a lightweight, simple to use and deploy and 
template shopping cart system. ZenCart and osCommmerce are terrible to both set 
up and use, so lose-lose IMHO.

Surely a simple shopping cart that is relatively genertic isn't THAT 
complicated to do?

Joe


On Aug 13, 2008, at 10:34, Adam Martin wrote:

I am a pretty active magento developer and highly recommend it as well.. but it 
really only suits those clients whose whole site is an ecommerce solution. For 
example, take a look at a client of mine  - julesroc.com.au

I am working on a custom solution that allows ecommerce to be a part of a 
clients website. So the first question I would be asking is what are the needs 
of the client. A complete ecommerce solution or an ecommerce component within 
their site.

Cheers
Adam
magento user: tweakmag
- Original Message -
From: 8bits Mediamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgmailto:wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Shopping cart - who does what

I think it would be worth your while to go and check out Magento - 
http://www.magentocommerce.com/

The makers of this product have done a great job of making it standards 
compliant, as well as very usable. We're in the process of integrating it into 
a new project.

Regards,

Nick
8bits Media

On 13 Aug 2008, at 16:39, Lynette Smith wrote:

 Do the free [shopping carts] (such as ZenCart and OsCommerce) do an adequate 
 job  ?

My friend populated the shop at the time because he was savvy with Photoshop 
and could do all the image work himself. But you could as well end up doing 
that too if your client hasn't that knowledge.
That's what I am afraid of.

I think you should weigh your time vs. the fee your colleague charges. You 
might want to learn ZenCart or another eCommerce solution so you can do it in 
the future.
Thanks, Jens - will re-think if a cart is really necessary.

Kind regards

Lyn


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==
Joe Ortenzi
[EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.typingthevoid.com
http://twitter.com/wheelyweb


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RE: [WSG] Shopping cart - who does what

2008-08-13 Thread Paul Collins
Anyone tried these? Someone just recommended them here:

http://www.shopify.com/
http://www.freecsscart.com/
http://www.tradingeye.com/department/products/

Cheers



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 11:51 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Shopping cart - who does what

I've recently started to use drupal with the ubercart module. It's really easy 
to set up and it's pretty easy to theme too.

drupal on its own is a great cms. Download the whole package from ubercart 
though http://www.ubercart.org/downloads The deluxe package includes drupal and 
some extra modules.

I would steer clear of zencart - not keen on that software at all. Not very 
easy to customise.

Darren Lovelock
Munkyonline.co.uk

Quoting Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Hi Joe,

 Can you recommend a shopping cart system that is easy to set up and
 use, be it open source or not? Trying to make a decision myself at the
 moment and would be interested to hear your thoughts.

 Cheers
 Paul

 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joseph Ortenzi
 Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 10:57 AM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Shopping cart - who does what

 why would it not work as a directory under the main site tree, i.e.:
  www.domain.com.au/shop/http://www.domain.com.au/shop/.

 I think developers are keen on a lightweight, simple to use and deploy
 and template shopping cart system. ZenCart and osCommmerce are
 terrible to both set up and use, so lose-lose IMHO.

 Surely a simple shopping cart that is relatively genertic isn't THAT
 complicated to do?

 Joe


 On Aug 13, 2008, at 10:34, Adam Martin wrote:

 I am a pretty active magento developer and highly recommend it as
 well.. but it really only suits those clients whose whole site is an
 ecommerce solution. For example, take a look at a client of mine  -
 julesroc.com.au

 I am working on a custom solution that allows ecommerce to be a part
 of a clients website. So the first question I would be asking is what
 are the needs of the client. A complete ecommerce solution or an
 ecommerce component within their site.

 Cheers
 Adam
 magento user: tweakmag
 - Original Message -
 From: 8bits Mediamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgmailto:wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 5:00 PM
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Shopping cart - who does what

 I think it would be worth your while to go and check out Magento -
 http://www.magentocommerce.com/

 The makers of this product have done a great job of making it
 standards compliant, as well as very usable. We're in the process of
 integrating it into a new project.

 Regards,

 Nick
 8bits Media

 On 13 Aug 2008, at 16:39, Lynette Smith wrote:

 Do the free [shopping carts] (such as ZenCart and OsCommerce) do an
 adequate job  ?

 My friend populated the shop at the time because he was savvy with
 Photoshop and could do all the image work himself. But you could as
 well end up doing that too if your client hasn't that knowledge.
 That's what I am afraid of.

 I think you should weigh your time vs. the fee your colleague charges.
 You might want to learn ZenCart or another eCommerce solution so you
 can do it in the future.
 Thanks, Jens - will re-think if a cart is really necessary.

 Kind regards

 Lyn


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 ==
 Joe Ortenzi
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.typingthevoid.com
 http://twitter.com/wheelyweb


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RE: [WSG] Correct markup of fieldset

2008-08-08 Thread Paul Collins
Very good point Jens, I didn't realise my doctype was transitional. Sorted that 
now and the validation problems are there.

Yes, I think you're spot on there, most of the forms I have here are just for 
search, email signup, etc, so no reason I couldn't have them as part of the 
same fieldset.

Cheers
Paul



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jens Brueckmann
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 11:00 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Correct markup of fieldset

2008/8/7 Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 This is one I've never been sure of; should the submit button be in a
 seperate fieldset, or should it even be in a fieldset at all because
 it is not a group  of fields; it's a button on it's own.

 For example:

 form
 fieldset
 labelSearch/label
 input type=text value=/
 /fieldset
 input type=submit/
 /form

 As opposed to:

 form
 fieldset
 labelSearch/label
 input type=text value=/
 input type=submit/
 /fieldset
 /form


Hi Paul,

in strict (X)HTML documents, the FORM element must only contain block elements 
[1].
Therefore, an INPUT element as a direct child of FORM would be invalid for 
documents with strict DTDs.

Using transitional DTDs, the FORM element may as well contain inline elements 
such as INPUT.

Apart from considering the validity of the markup in question, the complexity 
of the form could guide one. In your example with a single text input field one 
might view the submit button to be part of this same fieldset.
In more complex forms, e.g. a feedback form which requires input of name, 
e-mail, and a textarea for free text, the submit button would rather require 
its own FIELDSET or DIV or P parent element.

Cheers,

jens

[1] http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#edef-FORM
--
Jens Brueckmann
http://www.yalf.de


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RE: [WSG] Correct markup of fieldset

2008-08-08 Thread Paul Collins
Hi Mike,

Thanks for the reply. When you say fieldset labelled, you mean the legend, 
right? I've actually not been using a legend tag in this instance because the 
design doesn't warrant it. Case by case basis I guess.

But yes, both you and Jens are right that it depends on the content.

Cheers again,
Paul



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 11:30 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Correct markup of fieldset

To my mind, one of the most pressing questions that needs to be answered in any 
particular case is: How is the fieldset labelled?
If it specifically says something like 'postcode' or maybe 'contact details', 
and is one of a collection of fieldsets, then the button should probably be 
outside.
If the form is simpler, the fieldset is un-labelled, generically labelled, or 
the only fieldset, then there is no advantage to moving the submit button 
outside of the fieldset.

Of course, what would be best would be a quick study of what actual 
screen-readers speak in these cases - does the closing of a fieldset lead the 
user to believe that is the end of the form?

I see little issue with the semantics of the form, since the button will still 
be contained within that boundary, even if it goes outside a fieldset. 
(Validity of XHTML being a slightly separate argument, especially if, like me, 
you never use it.)

Regards,
Mike


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RE: [WSG] Correct markup of fieldset

2008-08-08 Thread Paul Collins
That was my thinking originally Stuart, which is why I put up the post. The 
submit button isn't part of a group, so I thought it shouldn't be in a fieldset.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stuart Foulstone
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 4:36 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Correct markup of fieldset


--
Stuart Foulstone.


On Fri, August 8, 2008 11:29 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 To my mind, one of the most pressing questions that needs to be
 answered in any particular case is: How is the fieldset labelled?
 If it specifically says something like 'postcode' or maybe 'contact
 details', and is one of a collection of fieldsets, then the button
 should probably be outside.
 If the form is simpler, the fieldset is un-labelled, generically
 labelled, or the only fieldset, then there is no advantage to moving
 the submit button outside of the fieldset.

 Of course, what would be best would be a quick study of what actual
 screen-readers speak in these cases - does the closing of a fieldset
 lead the user to believe that is the end of the form?


Fieldsets separate related input fields into different sets for ease of 
comprehension.  The closing of a fieldset leads the user to expect another 
fieldset, a lone input field  or a submit button.





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[WSG] Correct markup of fieldset

2008-08-07 Thread Paul Collins
Hi all,

This is one I've never been sure of; should the submit button be in a
seperate fieldset, or should it even be in a fieldset at all because it is
not a group  of fields; it's a button on it's own.

I usually put groups of fields in a fieldset, then have the submit button on
it's own outside of the fieldsets. Would like to know what everyone else
does?!

For example:

form
fieldset
labelSearch/label
input type=text value=/
/fieldset
input type=submit/
/form

As opposed to:

form
fieldset
labelSearch/label
input type=text value=/
input type=submit/
/fieldset
/form

Any thoughts?!
Cheers
Paul


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[WSG] @import rule

2008-08-06 Thread Paul Collins
Hi all,

Just working on someone else's website and they are using the @import rule
to include their CSS. I usually use the link rel method. I am wondering,
is there really any reason not to use @import, be it Accessibility,
standards, etc? I don't want to pull in other stylesheets into the one I'm
using, so I have no need for the @import.

Would appreciate your advice.
Cheers
Paul


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RE: [WSG] resetting input boxes

2008-08-06 Thread Paul Bennett
Hi Kevin,

It's not clear what you're trying to achieve. Can you give us some more 
information?

Paul


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[WSG] Multiple Firefox on Mac

2008-07-24 Thread Paul Collins
Hi all,

Does anyone have a link to a decent reference on running Firefox 2  3
simultaneously on Mac? I can't seem to find a decent one out there.

Basically, I've created the new profile, installed Firefox 3 under a
different name, but I can't find any information on how you create
shortcuts to the programs on the Mac so I can add the noremote stuff.

Thanks for any help,
Paul


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RE: [WSG] Forcing a vertical scrollbar in Firefox 3

2008-07-10 Thread Paul Bennett
Hi Jen,

Your comment may have come across as a bit more negative than it was intended, 
however:
http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fairfax.com.au%2Findex.ac
(46 errors)

He who lives in a glass house etc, etc...

My opinion (and it is just that) is the we need to stop being so critical about 
trifling matters like this. I applaud Opera for their involvement in web 
standards and for their commitment to put a resource like this together even 
when it doesn't seem to offer a direct business benefit for them.

Lets keep it positive folks. It won't be pretty if we start assigning value to 
people by how their sites look through the validator.

Happy Friday :)
Paul


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Re: RE: [WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS

2008-06-26 Thread Paul Collins
Sorry, haven't been around for a few days. Thanks for the replies
everyone. Much appreciated and I can now talk about mobile development
with more confidence!

Cheers

2008/6/25 Darren Lovelock [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Michael MD
 Sent: 25 June 2008 11:10
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: RE: [WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS



 I agree, this is not web standards. However remember they could be
 following web standards with their CSS version.

 and I don't think it is just in the UK, it is every where for Vodafone.
 Which not only defies any effort you made to put the thing together
 for presentation standards as well.

 I think it is their solution to controlling the user experience on
 handset side of things when someone accesses mobile web.

 Why don't they let the community sought it out?
 It seems now that if standards are to be effective in the mobile
 access space, there is now another hump to get an open standard.



 are they doing this for all sites on all types of phones
 or only changing it if the phone's browser can't handle the original
 format/doctype/css/etc

 The latter is nothing new...
 Google has been doing it for years for pages linked from mobile search
 results allowing even ancient phones to browse pages they would not
 otherwise be able to look at.
 (ie making them accessible!)

 --

 I believe that they are changing all types of phones. I have a sony ericcson
 k800i and it modifies the pages on that unless I go in the vodafone account
 settings and switch it off. It works fine without it!

 The Novarra proxy is over-riding the handheld stylesheet when I visit my
 website. This is because my site will deliver the standard stylesheet as it
 detects Novarra's user agent and not my mobile's. So it affects any site
 regardless if they are already mobile friendly!

 Darren Lovelock
 Munky Online Web Design
 http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
 T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893










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[WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS

2008-06-24 Thread Paul Collins
Hi all,

I'm trying to find a comprehensive list of Mobile phone browsers and
CSS support. I currently have a Nokia N70 and as far as I can see it
doesn't support CSS at all. But, perhaps with a stylesheet targeting
mobile phones it would?!

The main reason is, I am trying to decide whether putting the main
logo of a site in as an inline image is better than a background, as
it would still show up with CSS not supported. But then, how many
mobile browsers still don't support CSS whatsoever?!

Any advice or links would be great.
Cheers
Paul


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Re: [WSG] Firefox 3 candidate

2008-06-24 Thread Paul Collins
Thanks for your replies everyone. I finally got both versions working!


2008/6/23 Felix Miata [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 On 2008/06/23 11:42 (GMT+0100) Steve Green apparently typed:

 You can still get some old versions from the Mozilla FTP site at
 http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/

 It's ludicrous that they have removed some old versions - can they really
 not afford the disk space? Obviously users should not be installing old
 versions but developers and testers still need them for testing. We download
 and store all the English versions but it's not practical to save all the
 localised versions too.

 They should still be there, but on
 http://archive.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/ . That is
 currently redirecting to
 http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/ which I think
 is broken behavior.
 ftp://archive.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases works.
 --
 Where were you when I laid the earth's
 foundation?   Matthew 7:12 NIV

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

 Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/


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Re: [WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS

2008-06-24 Thread Paul Collins
Thanks for your replies everyone, those are good resources.

2008/6/24 Jens Nedal [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Paul Collins wrote:

 Hi all,

 I'm trying to find a comprehensive list of Mobile phone browsers and
 CSS support. I currently have a Nokia N70 and as far as I can see it
 doesn't support CSS at all. But, perhaps with a stylesheet targeting
 mobile phones it would?!

 The main reason is, I am trying to decide whether putting the main
 logo of a site in as an inline image is better than a background, as
 it would still show up with CSS not supported. But then, how many
 mobile browsers still don't support CSS whatsoever?!


 In addition if you are trying to locate which mobile browser from which
 mobile vendor is coming along, this universal XML File called WURFL might
 help alot. It contains information about the capabilities and features of
 many mobile devices and more.

 http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/

 regards, Jens


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Re: [WSG] Firefox 3 candidate

2008-06-23 Thread Paul Collins
Hi all,

Thanks for your replies to this thread last week. I'm on a PC today
and trying to get both versions of Firefox running, the only issue is,
I can't find where to download version 2 of Firefox anymore! Mozilla
have made it very hard to find previous versions

Does anyone know where you can get version 2?!

Cheers

2008/6/19 Paul Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 select custom install and install it to another directory (something like 
 /Mozilla/Firefox3) and the two will run side-by-side.

 You can do this with Opera too.
 :)
 Paul


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Re: [WSG] Firefox 3 candidate

2008-06-23 Thread Paul Collins
Thanks Sagnik, that is a good site!


2008/6/23 Sagnik Dey [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Hi Paul,

 You can download Firefox Ver 2.0 from .

 http://www.oldapps.com/firefox.htm

 This is a very good website for downloading older appz.

 --
 Cheers to life

 Sagnik ::
 26four79.com



 On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 3:31 PM, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 Hi all,

 Thanks for your replies to this thread last week. I'm on a PC today
 and trying to get both versions of Firefox running, the only issue is,
 I can't find where to download version 2 of Firefox anymore! Mozilla
 have made it very hard to find previous versions

 Does anyone know where you can get version 2?!

 Cheers

 2008/6/19 Paul Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  select custom install and install it to another directory (something
  like /Mozilla/Firefox3) and the two will run side-by-side.
 
  You can do this with Opera too.
  :)
  Paul
 
 
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RE: [WSG] Firefox 3 candidate

2008-06-19 Thread Paul Bennett
select custom install and install it to another directory (something like 
/Mozilla/Firefox3) and the two will run side-by-side.

You can do this with Opera too.
:)
Paul


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RE: [WSG] Marking Up Poems

2008-06-19 Thread Paul Bennett
 Not if it's your own poem you're putting on your own page.

Rubbish - I quote myself all the time! :)

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RE: [WSG] Marking Up Poems

2008-06-19 Thread Paul Bennett
Must you Australian's *always* have the last say?  ;)


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[WSG] Re: Multiple Language Domains

2008-06-18 Thread Paul McCann

Hi Jay,

Sorry I meant that our system is currently putting the xml statement 
before the doctype and so causing the quirks mode problem, and we cant 
figure out why as it is not doing it on all pages. We were aware of this 
problem and its on my fix list in fact i am working on it now :) 

Would be good to know if you can still see the problem on the website, 
and if so on which pages as currently there is no quirks mode at this 
end now, but it appears to show up outside our network.


Feel free to email me off list.

thanks for all the help
Paul


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[WSG] Firefox 3 candidate

2008-06-18 Thread Paul Collins
Does anyone know if it will replace your version of Firefox 2, or will
it run side by side?!

Cheers


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[WSG] Multiple Language Domains

2008-06-17 Thread Paul McCann
Many thanks for the feedback guys. We wont be using a splash page but I 
have taken the other points on board and will look into them. The quirks 
mode issue, should not be there, we think the system is putting that in 
place for us!!


Paul


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[WSG] Multiple Language Domains

2008-06-13 Thread Paul McCann

Hi Guys,

I am currently in the middle of building a site which has to be 
bi-lingual. We have two domains for the site www.ourwales.org.uk and 
www.cymruni.org.uk


I am looking for suggestions/help on how to handle the two domains.
Currently ourwales is the prominant/main domain and the one to which the 
IP details of the site are set. We are then using an alias within apache 
to also point cymruni to the same site. So you see the same site when 
you visit, but have two different domains. Both these domains are 
advertised.


I have a few worries though, currently both domains point to the english 
language version of the site, this will be changed so cymruni goes to 
the Welsh language side. Although the language is the same and its 
possible for people to flip between the two languages is it possible 
that google will see the site as duplicate content?


Also we are having trouble getting the alias to append the lang=cy to it 
on first visit. My thought was to make the ourwales domain the prominant 
one, and set up a folder with a 301 redirect in it which says 
cymruni.org has moved permanantly to ourwales.org.uk/lang=cy that way we 
have only one domain indexed.


The reason for writing to this group is two fold
1, how does this affect usability and what is 'best practice' in this 
situation?

2, How have/would you implement a problem like this?

Ideally we want to provide the smoothest and friendliest experience to 
both the user and SE whichever domain they use.


thanks
Paul


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[WSG] Outlook 2007

2008-06-04 Thread Paul Collins
Hi all,

I am building an email for Outlook 2007, oh joy. I am aware that you
can no longer use background images, that's fine. The one thing I want
to confirm is whether the background colour will disappear when you
nest a table inside your TD. I can't test here, but this will cause me
a lot of pain.

So, for example:

table cellpadding=10 cellspacing=0 border=0
tr
td bgcolor=#00
table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 border=0
tr
tdSome text/td
/tr
/table
/td
/tr
/table

Will I lose my black background there on the outer table, or can I
just add it again to the inner table? Obviously the outer table has a
cellpadding of 10, so I need the black background to appear on both.

Thanks for any help.
Cheers
Paul


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Re: [WSG] AJAX short courses london

2008-06-03 Thread Paul Collins
Oh yes, I'm not bothered about Accredations really. More concerned
about the quality of the course and most employers I've come across
are more concerned with your experience.

Cheers again!

2008/6/3 Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hi all,

 Sorry, I lost this thread. Perhaps you are right about the online
 training with Video. I just find it easier to have someone to ask face
 to face - you learn quicker that way.

 I'll look into this IRC thingo, never actually taken a look.

 Thanks for your replies.
 Paul


 2008/6/3 Jennie K [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 You are probably right - it's just some employers demand accreditation -
 although I am in Aus not UK (so Í'm sure it's different here).  I learnt
 most of my skills on the job and from books but ended up getting some kind
 of accreditation as well.

 Also just wanted to let you know its $50 US dollars not pounds - so you
 might find it is only 25 UK pounds

 On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 3:38 AM, Ben Dodson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.

 I've always learnt things from either books or from chatting with other
 developers in IRC (there are no doubt some ajax specific groups - I
 recommend #jquery for the jQuery library which is my particular ajax weapon
 of choice).

 Accreditations are definitely not required in the web development world -
 the worst developers I've interviewed are always the ones with
 accreditations whereas the best have just taught themselves or been taught
 by their peers!

 Cheers,

 Ben

 --
 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 w: http://bendodson.com/


 On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 so where else can you be taught in bed for £50*
 (*stop sniggering in the back there!)
 and as for accreditation, some of my best developers were not accredited
 and their experience counted for much more than any course could provide.
 They are much better at independent thinking, self-study for things they
 need to know more about, and less likely to get stuck in a conceptual rut.
 Joe
 On May 30 2008, at 22:39, James Jeffery wrote:

 Only problem with the Lynda.com DVDs is sometimes they can be outdated.

 Although, this one is £50 and looks good. I might actually buy this, i
 like watching the movies when in bed.

 http://movielibrary.lynda.com/html/modPage.asp?ID=480

 On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 9:51 PM, Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I agree.
 I have rarely seen any course in web technologies that you couldn't get
 further for much less money with either a video tutorial from places like
 lynda.com or from good how to books from great publishers like new riders,
 friends of ed, o'reilleys, etc.
 you can study at your own pace, replay and review difficult bits, skip
 over others, and the resource stays with you..

 On May 27 2008, at 05:28, Jennie K wrote:

 If you are not after accreditation try this website www.lynda.com - it's
 all online and you study at your own pace.  I've recommended the training 
 to
 numerous people and they have all said it is of good quality.  You can try
 some of the free courses before  committing - there are also books and cds
 if you don't like the online version.

 On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 11:20 PM, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 Hi all,

 I hope this is on topic. I'm trying to find a short course on AJAX in
 london and having troubles finding one that is of a reasonable price
 (IE- less than £300 for a half day). Could anyone recommend me one or
 possibly a good school to look into?

 Thanks for any help,
 Paul


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 www.joiz.com



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Re: [WSG] AJAX short courses london

2008-06-03 Thread Paul Collins
Hi all,

Sorry, I lost this thread. Perhaps you are right about the online
training with Video. I just find it easier to have someone to ask face
to face - you learn quicker that way.

I'll look into this IRC thingo, never actually taken a look.

Thanks for your replies.
Paul


2008/6/3 Jennie K [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 You are probably right - it's just some employers demand accreditation -
 although I am in Aus not UK (so Í'm sure it's different here).  I learnt
 most of my skills on the job and from books but ended up getting some kind
 of accreditation as well.

 Also just wanted to let you know its $50 US dollars not pounds - so you
 might find it is only 25 UK pounds

 On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 3:38 AM, Ben Dodson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.

 I've always learnt things from either books or from chatting with other
 developers in IRC (there are no doubt some ajax specific groups - I
 recommend #jquery for the jQuery library which is my particular ajax weapon
 of choice).

 Accreditations are definitely not required in the web development world -
 the worst developers I've interviewed are always the ones with
 accreditations whereas the best have just taught themselves or been taught
 by their peers!

 Cheers,

 Ben

 --
 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 w: http://bendodson.com/


 On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 so where else can you be taught in bed for £50*
 (*stop sniggering in the back there!)
 and as for accreditation, some of my best developers were not accredited
 and their experience counted for much more than any course could provide.
 They are much better at independent thinking, self-study for things they
 need to know more about, and less likely to get stuck in a conceptual rut.
 Joe
 On May 30 2008, at 22:39, James Jeffery wrote:

 Only problem with the Lynda.com DVDs is sometimes they can be outdated.

 Although, this one is £50 and looks good. I might actually buy this, i
 like watching the movies when in bed.

 http://movielibrary.lynda.com/html/modPage.asp?ID=480

 On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 9:51 PM, Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I agree.
 I have rarely seen any course in web technologies that you couldn't get
 further for much less money with either a video tutorial from places like
 lynda.com or from good how to books from great publishers like new riders,
 friends of ed, o'reilleys, etc.
 you can study at your own pace, replay and review difficult bits, skip
 over others, and the resource stays with you..

 On May 27 2008, at 05:28, Jennie K wrote:

 If you are not after accreditation try this website www.lynda.com - it's
 all online and you study at your own pace.  I've recommended the training 
 to
 numerous people and they have all said it is of good quality.  You can try
 some of the free courses before  committing - there are also books and cds
 if you don't like the online version.

 On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 11:20 PM, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 Hi all,

 I hope this is on topic. I'm trying to find a short course on AJAX in
 london and having troubles finding one that is of a reasonable price
 (IE- less than £300 for a half day). Could anyone recommend me one or
 possibly a good school to look into?

 Thanks for any help,
 Paul


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 www.joiz.com



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 www.joiz.com



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Re: [WSG] Marking up company logo

2008-06-03 Thread Paul Collins
To throw another question in here, should the page title therefore be
different to the main heading of the page? I thought the content in
the page title should be as specific as possible for SEO, including
the heirarchy?

So, for example

titleSite title - Section Title - Page title/title

And

h1Page title, section title or Logo?/h1

Once you have it in the title tag, does it matter whether you have the
logo in a H1 or not? Should you have something different between the
title and main heading?

Cheers


2008/6/3 Darren West [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 My 2 pence ...

 titlePage title - Site title/title
 div id=brand
pimg alt=Site title ... //p
 /div
 div id=content
h1Page Title/h1
...
 /div
 div id=search
h1Search/h1
form ...
 /div
 div id=nav
h1Navigation/h1
ul ...
 /div


 2008/6/3 Rick Lecoat [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 On 3 Jun 2008, at 07:04, Matijs wrote:

 How about:

 titleThe Times/title

 h1Homepage/h1

 h2There's water on mars/h2

 

 titleThe Times/title

 h1Financial stuff/h1

 h2Redmond stock going down further/h2

 etc...

 Where would one fit in a company logo? Wouldn't a background image be
 best? And if so, where?

 My understanding of the title tag is that it is the title of the page, not
 the name of the site, and ideally every page should have a different title
 (at least from an SEO point of view) appropriate to its content -- so the
 above examples are not ideal IMHO.

 Re. logos as background images, that leaves anyone viewing the page without
 styles turned on out in the cold as far as seeing the company logo is
 concerned. Dan Cederholm uses a method whereby the logo is both a background
 image *and* a regular img tag, depending on whether you have styles on or
 off. That's my preferred technique.

 I just put the logo image in a div id=logo and keep the H1 for the
 page's own title.

 --
 Rick Lecoat



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[WSG] AJAX short courses london

2008-05-22 Thread Paul Collins
Hi all,

I hope this is on topic. I'm trying to find a short course on AJAX in
london and having troubles finding one that is of a reasonable price
(IE- less than £300 for a half day). Could anyone recommend me one or
possibly a good school to look into?

Thanks for any help,
Paul


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RE: [WSG] firefox 3 beta5

2008-05-19 Thread Paul Bennett
Ack!
Anyone else had horrible problems installing FF3?

My install crashes every time I open it, so I had to reinstall FF2..



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Re: [WSG] Background on body not aligning with tiled background on wrapper DIV

2008-05-15 Thread Paul Collins
Thanks for your reply Adam.

I can't really put what's I have now due to copyright restrictions, or
I would have. I was hoping someone had encountered this before and
would know the answer.

I'll have to try and set up a dummy page later today when I have more time.

Thanks
Paul

2008/5/15 Adam Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 can we see an example?

 Paul Collins wrote:

 Hi all,

 I've seen this problem before, but can't remember how I solved it.
 Basically, I have put a centred background that repeats vertically on
 the body of my page using CSS. The main wrapper div is also centred
 and has a background sits on top of the Body one, but is only a fixed
 height Basically, they need to match up where they meet, which is
 working fine in Firefox, Safari, Opera, etc. The only place it's
 having an issue is IE6  7.

 I know what the problem is; the background is centred and the width of
 your browser can be an odd or even number, so it can't sit dead centre
 all the time. If I drag the browser in to resize it, the backgrounds
 keep matching up then falling out of place.

 I have solved this before without adding an extra div for the body
 background, but I just can't remember how I did it. Does anyone have
 an idea?

 Thanks
 Paul


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[WSG] Background on body not aligning with tiled background on wrapper DIV

2008-05-15 Thread Paul Collins
Hi all,

I've seen this problem before, but can't remember how I solved it.
Basically, I have put a centred background that repeats vertically on
the body of my page using CSS. The main wrapper div is also centred
and has a background sits on top of the Body one, but is only a fixed
height Basically, they need to match up where they meet, which is
working fine in Firefox, Safari, Opera, etc. The only place it's
having an issue is IE6  7.

I know what the problem is; the background is centred and the width of
your browser can be an odd or even number, so it can't sit dead centre
all the time. If I drag the browser in to resize it, the backgrounds
keep matching up then falling out of place.

I have solved this before without adding an extra div for the body
background, but I just can't remember how I did it. Does anyone have
an idea?

Thanks
Paul


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