RE: [WSG] RE: Using background images on submit buttons

2009-06-24 Thread Rachel Radford
Hi Jens,

Sorry for replying so late, just wondering if you found a solution?  

The only things I have found online have been to make .Net produce an
input type=image / which isn't ideal (the image is in the HTML, not
the CSS), or a Linkbutton to then format with CSS more easily.  I
believe that Linkbuttons don't work when Javascript is turned off, so
they are not a good option either.

I fear the only proper solution while using .Net is for the HTML that is
produced to change!


Cheers,
Rachel

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Jens-Uwe Korff
Sent: 19 June 2009 00:39
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] RE: Using background images on submit buttons

on an ASP.NET-driven site we'd like to use background images for
flexible-width submit inputs.
Due to the .NET limitation we cannot use the button tag and are stuck
with the following syntax:
input type=submit value=Button Text /

Thank you for your inputs.

However, we really cannot use the button element.
I'll be looking into adding a wrapper to the input which appears to be
the best solution as of now.

Heavy Javascripting would complicate the build even further and I hope
we can get around that option.

Cheers,
 
Jens


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RE: [WSG] First Attempt

2008-11-24 Thread Rachel Radford
Hi Kate,

For a first webpage you're doing pretty well - you have some images
there and have changed the background colour and text colour on the
page.

However, using the Dreamweaver design view approach will not give you
the best end results, or teach you the best practices.  Peter's link
gives you some really good tips on moving beyond the elementary use of
Dreamweaver's design view, and point 5 - validate your page to find
basic errors is a definite step you don't want to miss.

Other than that, you may want to look at following online tutorials.
For example, your menus can be enhanced by following some easy steps
(for example,
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listutorial/horizontal_introduction.htm)
which you can then edit as you like.  You will be able to find many
tutorials for page layout, table styling, menus etc. by searching Google
and people here will also be able to give you pointers on good
tutorials.

Then moving forward when you feel more confident with editing the html 
css from these tutorials, you will be able to build your own menus and
eventually the entire website from scratch based on your custom design
:)

All the best,
Rachel


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of kate
Sent: 24 November 2008 11:57
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] First Attempt

Hello Peter,
I followed with another messge for the link but here it is:
http://www.jungaling.com/katalinadesigns/index.html
Sorry.!
Kate
- Original Message - 
From: Peter Mount [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] First Attempt


 Hi
 
 What's the url?
 
 --
 Peter Mount
 Web Development for Business
 Mobile: 0411 276602
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.petermount.com
 
 On 24/11/2008, at 9:55 PM, kate wrote:
 
 Hello,

 My first attempt at Web design but only first step to any design and

 wondered what you think so far as to:
 Top menu/color/images/table/..gently *grin

 In IE the page color is white so need to find how to get the correct

 color. This color works in FF ok - #172228
 I am working in DW8 on WinXP

 I have yet to get to grips with CSS yet but learning as I go along.
 Thanks
 Kate.


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RE: [WSG] labels as input wrappers + h6 in place of legend

2008-10-16 Thread Rachel Radford
I understand where you’re coming from because for some designs the legend isn’t 
easy to style consistently cross-browser, and so sometimes I have used a 
heading instead.  However if possible, using the legend is much better.

 

I also used to wrap form inputs in labels for the same reason as you say – 
styling the form becomes easy – however Mike’s article is very insightful and 
since then I’ve changed what I did and wrap as he suggests.  

 

So I just realised I’m basically echoing Mike’s comments, as that’s what I have 
also discerned as my best practice after quite a bit of form css experience and 
research.

 

J

Rach

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 16 October 2008 12:35
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] labels as input wrappers + h6 in place of legend

 

I am looking  for feedback on two questions, based on the simple form snippet 
below.

fieldset
   legendbPersonal Details/b/legend
   label for=nameName:/label
   input id=name type=text name=name size=30 br
   label for=idID Number:/label
   input id=id type=text name=id number size=10
/fieldset

Question 1:
Is it acceptable, or advisable, to use a header tag h6 in place of the 
legend in order to get cross-browsers consistency when dealing with complex 
form styling?  How much impact might this have on accessibility, if any?

Question 2:
I don't see many folks using the label as a wrapper to contain the input.  
Any reason not to do this?  It allows for the br / to be removed via display: 
block; on the label tag as well as allowing users (of most browsers) to click 
on a much larger label to select the accompanying input.

 fieldset
   h6Personal Details/h6
   label for=nameName:
   input id=name type=text name=name size=30
   /label
   label for=idID Number:
   input id=id type=text name=id number size=10
   /label
/fieldset


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RE: [WSG] .NET sites which are XHTML 1.0 strict

2008-10-08 Thread Rachel Radford
It can be done... although hard to achieve using the webforms .net, and
I found it hard to find an example!

Here is one that validates xhtml strict and is .Net:
http://www.miloclinic.com/

Ironically enough it's the blog that is in Wordpress that doesn't
validate! Although that is easy enough to resolve, it is usually any
area that is let loose to a client with a CMS that doesn't validate
post-launch...

:)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Anthony Milner
Sent: 08 October 2008 03:23
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] .NET sites which are XHTML 1.0 strict

Hi,

I was having a *chat* with some .NET developer colleagues and they
challenged me to find a .NET site that achieves XHTML 1.0 strict
compliance. Hoping to prove to them that it can be done.

Does anybody know of some .NET sites which are XHTML 1.0 strict (or even
transitional)?

Thanks,
Anthony

 


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RE: [WSG] Is it a good practice to have 'Back to Top' link?

2008-09-30 Thread Rachel Radford
Hi Joe,

Therefore, the use of 'Return to top' link will be required unless I can prove 
to my client that users don't click them via studies, research or user 
feedback, not just only from my personal experience.

I think you answered your own question there... Can you do some studies or 
research (such as implementing crazy egg or similar, observing the users etc.) 
into how people use the current site and the back to top links on it?  You may 
find that they are used a lot, and that site visitors find them very useful, 
regardless of what our own opinions and feelings are.  You may also find that 
they are not used at all, in which case there is no need to include them in a 
redesign.

Likewise, continue testing on the new redesigned site to see whether the back 
to top links are required on your new design, or what the best implementation 
(sticky sidebar, fixed position, etc.) of the back to top links is.

:)
Rach

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Chiang
Sent: 30 September 2008 09:19
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Is it a good practice to have 'Back to Top' link?

Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts and commenting.

After reading through the responses to my original post, I'm trying to
frame a conclusion here.

But first, a little website background:
- target audience don't have much computer background
- majority of target audience use IE 6/7
- since it's an academic site, I think many users would like to print
out the page to read
- the page includes references

Personally, I prefer not to have 'Return to top' links as I don't click
on them and also feel it is annoying.
But, my target audience may expect or use those links as the 'Return to
top' links have been present on the site for the last 10 years and I
think my client will also prefer to have them. Therefore, the use of
'Return to top' link will be required unless I can prove to my client
that users don't click them via studies, research or user feedback, not
just only from my personal experience.

I think the solution I found to be best suited for me is to make a
'Return to top' link appearing on the page as neatly as possible and use
CSS for printer-friendly version (not include those links).

Perhaps, implement something like 'sticky sidebar' or 'position fixed'
to present the 'Return to top' link rather than adding it after each
section is another option I look favourably at. Obviously, I need to
work out on IE6 for this.
http://www.derekallard.com/blog/post/conditionally-sticky-sidebar
http://www.nowcss.com/javascript/emulating-position-fixed-in-ie-6-below

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Joe

On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Gunlaug Sørtun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 May I suggest that we fix an Up link at the bottom and a series of
 section tabs and Skip to ... at the top of the window - 'position:
 fixed' that is.

 Should work on all but the smallest windows and in all the latest
 browsers, and are easy to reposition or turn off for print.
 IE6 will have to pull a little extra, but should otherwise cooperate well.

 regards
Georg
 --
 http://www.gunlaug.no


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RE: [WSG] Opera not playing nice with checkbox

2008-09-11 Thread Rachel Radford
Hi Tee,

Radio buttons and checkboxes are used in different situations - a radio
button is when only one option in the list is able to be chosen such as
in your Poll, and checkboxes are for when more than one option can be
chosen, check all that apply type questions.  Some survey programmes
make radio buttons look like checkboxes, I guess to make them prettier
as you suggest, but I tend to err towards convention to avoid confusion
for the person filling it in.

In your case it may be easiest to just return the
checkboxes/radiobuttons for your poll to their default rendering (which
looks nice in Opera anyway, but not so hot in IE!) by styling the text
inputs specifically, rather than all inputs.  Non-text inputs do get
tricky to style cross browser without using javascript, etc. 

Rach

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of tee
Sent: 11 September 2008 01:39
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Opera not playing nice with checkbox


On Sep 10, 2008, at 4:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I'm not familiar with the issue.  Could you send a reduced test case  
 (will be quicker for us to find the issue), or failing that ,a link  
 to the page where it happens.

James and David,

Thanks for your attention.

Here is the page:
http://teesworks.com/index.php/
On the right column, community poll, the checkboxes are not selectable  
(it's radio button there but I changed it to checkbox so that you can  
take a quick look without adding product to cart). In other pages  
where I have the a:focus declared with background color in input, I  
could see the background color when a checkbox is selectable.

Only tested in Mac Opera 9.50, Build 4870  on system 10.5.4

On Sep 10, 2008, at 4:09 PM, James Ellis wrote:

 Tee:
 I haven't seen your code but is it possible this is occurring  
 because both checkboxes and radios are, in fact, input elements ?
 e.g
 input {
 border : #000;
 background-color : #f00;
 }

yes, I have input element declared for borders and background color  
because input text field is used in every page, so it's easier to  
declare them directly to the element instead of adding a new class.

I thought we can have

checkbox, radio {border:none}

But they don't work for IE an Opera ?!

This reminds me to ask another question, does it matter whether one  
chooses to use Radio button or Checkbox. I like checkbox better  
because radio button is uglier in IE :)

tee




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RE: [WSG] Appropriate postings

2008-08-07 Thread Rachel Radford
I like the newbie questions personally!  This list was a HUGE help to me
when I was learning CSS (it still is a huge help when I come across a
problem) and I would like to think that it hasn't lost that community.  

Recently a member of this list hugely helped one of my colleagues with a
layout issue, which was a great encouragement to him.  

Let's not be too intimidating to new comers, I think it's wonderful when
people want to learn, and a community is an ideal place for guidance and
advice on best practice. The mixture of people make it interesting, I
would certainly would get bored if this list became purely a place for
academic comment on advanced (X)HTML  CSS..!


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Erickson, Kevin (DOE)
Sent: 06 August 2008 14:30
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Appropriate postings

Thank you!!! I agree 100%. Nothing is better than trying to find
information from a well rounded group. That is what makes this list so
great! For some one to say they want a newbie level list, tells me they
have not thought it through. We should ask those that don't want to
participate in a subject to delete/ignore it. 

Sincerely,
kevin

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Mike at Green-Beast.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 6:11 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Appropriate postings

On lists like these, newbies can become gurus. And the cycle unselfishly
gets repeated. :)

Respectfully,
Mike Cherim
http://green-beast.com 



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RE: [WSG] Help with div tags in Dreamweaver CS3

2008-06-13 Thread Rachel Radford
Hi Susan,

It looks like it's quite a big jump to move to all CSS for you right now, 
especially for that design which isn't perhaps the most straightforward one 
with lots of images, image replacement and Flash.  There's nothing wrong in 
taking it in steps - read Jeffery Zeldman's book Designing with Web Standards 
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0321385551/ref%3Dnosim/jeffreyzeldmanprA/),
 which will give you some guidelines on how to make those steps. This will be a 
better approach than trying to use the CSS templates in Dreamweaver, as you'll 
learn more along the way. Then you can interatively improve the site as you 
learn more CSS, and come back to this list with any questions you find along 
the way.

All the best,
Rachel


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Susan Levin
Sent: Thu 12/06/2008 19:01
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Help with div tags in Dreamweaver CS3
 
Hello everyone. I am pretty new to Dreamweaver and CSS and Flash. I  
have created pieces for a new website and I desperately want to make  
the jump to using CSS for all placement...but don't know where to  
start. My client is patiently waiting and I am pulling my hair out by  
now. A comp of what I am trying to get my master page to look like can  
be found here:

http://www.thewowfactorcakes.com/comp.html


And here is the page that is up and waiting for some placement help:

http://www.thewowfactorcakes.com/

I need first of all the make the white background go away for both the  
handwriting swf file and the fade in and fade out images file below  
that.

I created this page from a one column fixed centered template in  
Dreamweaver CS3.
Can anyone come to my rescue? Sincerely, mango2020





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winmail.dat

RE: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript

2008-06-06 Thread Rachel Radford
 
It sounds like a lot of work for something that you are purely guessing?

As your audience is already part of the community that you're doing the website 
for, it should be easy to find out a typical setup.  Many old people I know 
aren't using IE5 - either they aren't using anything or they have a computer 
that someone else, such as their children or grandchildren, has set up for them 
and is relatively new.  

Put the work into finding out more about your audience, as IE5 may not even 
need to be supported to that level.  As a backup I would put a list of links to 
all the subpages on the parent page (where the drop downs originate from), so 
if there does happen to be someone using IE5 with JS turned off, then they can 
still easily navigate to all the pages (although it adds another step).

Rach :o)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of James Jeffery
Sent: Fri 06/06/2008 10:48
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript
 
Maybe i am being a little bit picky with this.

I have a suckerfish dropdown, as i feel it is the best approach for
cross-browser (but not A grade) dropdowns. The website i am working on is a
youth centre's. The target audience is the community, which can be young or
very old. The very old may be using IE 5 on older computers (at a guess).
If they have JS disabled and are using IE 5 then they cannot view the
navigation links.

Whats your views on the best way around this?

I was thinking about sing PHP to determine what browser the user is using
and if JS is enabled. If its IE 5 and it is not enabled then when a user
clicks a link from the navigation menu the page will load but under the
navigation will be another div that lists the links uder that sub heading.

-
|   nav   nav   nav  nav  nav  nav  nav |
-

|   sub link sub link |
|   sub link sub link |
|   sub link sub link |

-
all the other content goes on as normal

Only users who are using a browser that does not support the hover psudeo
selector on anything other than a elements will see that box. It will be
generated using PHP before the page loads.

I was thinking about doing that for all the users, and have that displaying
regardless, but that may add confusion to the user experience i feel.

Anyone ideas?


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RE: [WSG] New to Standards.

2006-01-04 Thread Rachel Radford
Hi Alvaro,

A really good book that I'm sure has taught many of us lots is Jefferey
Zeldman's book Designing with Web Standards. It introduces everything from a
beginner's view, moving from tables to more standard markup and more css.
Eric Meyer on CSS is also a brilliant book.

Rachel 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Alvaro Mouriño
Sent: Thursday, 5 January 2006 3:45 p.m.
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: [WSG] New to Standards.

Hi list,
For about 8 years I've been working with HTML and web-related
languages. One day I discovered CSS and learnt (not much) about it,
but I never realized how powerful it is. Little time ago something
called Web Standards called my attention, causing me a very strong
curiosity. That's why I started investigating (and found this list in
the process), but never found material that introduced the subject
from scratch, for a beginner.
Now I'm writing to this list to ask for books, eBooks, links, and
every piece of information that could help me to learn and understand
Web Standards and not feel like an ignorant when I read the posts sent
to the list, and, in a not-far future, help others too.
Thanks in advance everyone,

AlvAro
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RE: [WSG] Best Web Standards thing I learnt in 2005.

2005-12-21 Thread Rachel Radford
Sheesh, I've learnt everything this year!  Transition from tables to web
standards :D

The most revolutionary of all would probably creating forms using labels,
field sets etc. instead of tables.

The coolest would be style-switching (I know it's not new - but new to me in
2005!)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Terrence Wood
Sent: Thursday, 22 December 2005 10:22 a.m.
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Best Web Standards thing I learnt in 2005.

The best web standards thing I learnt in 2005 is:

How to best use the summary attribute for screen reader users:

The summary attribute is best used to describe the structure of the table,
not to summarise it's content. A longer summary is better according to
actual screen reader user testing.

How do you know if your summary works, if you don't have any screen reader
users to test with?

You need two people, someone to read the summary and someone to draw the
table. Read your summary aloud and see what the other person draws. If the
result resembles your table then you are on the right track =)

Example from complex financial table:
summary=There are 8 columns. Column 1 names the appropriation and labels
the row or rowgroup. Columns 2 through 5 report the numbers for 2004/5,
where column 2 is Budgeted Annual, column 3 is Budgeted Other, column 4 is
Estimated Actual Annual, column 5 is Estimated Actual Other. Columns 6
through 7 report the numbers for 2005/6 where column 6 is Vote Annual,
column 7 is Vote Other. Column 8 contains narrative on the scope of the
appropriation. Rows are grouped by appropriation type.

(yep.. rowgroup is jargon, but most people got it... you could say
group of rows)

HTH, please share your discovery in 2005.

kind regards
Terrence Wood.

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[WSG] styling auto-generated .net id values

2005-12-08 Thread Rachel Radford
Hi everyone,

Just wondering if anyone else has come across the following problem and if
so, how they fixed it?

I'm working with a page that has auto-generated html from a .net engine that
I then style up with css.  In this case I need to reference one item on the
page that has an id of #_1740__ctl2__1125.  When I style this up in Firefox
it works fine. But it seems that IE gets stuck somewhere on the underscores
and ignores the rule.  I can't change the underscores because it is .net
generated - even though yes, I know that underscores are not recommended as
id values.  Can anyone help me on how I would get around this?

Thanks,
Rachel

p.s. I don't have the option of ditching IE support!!


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RE: [WSG] Standards and .NET

2005-11-08 Thread Rachel Radford
Hi Chris,

To echo what Wayne says - Visual Studio 2005 is MUCH better when it comes to
css/standards layouts.  Unfortunately it is still fairly new, and so not
going to be commonly used for a wee while.

When dealing with older .net stuff - like I also currently am - yes it is a
headache. How closely do you work with these developers?  Currently I am
battling with 30 odd validation errors on each page because of what Visual
studio is putting in.  In short, it helps a lot to have the doctype as HTML
4 strict (unless you have to use xhtml?).  

If they are telling you to use tables for stuff other than data tables, then
they need to get their act together.  They should have no problems bringing
your html in.  One thing that could be causing a problem is if they are
needing to use the id values for .net stuff then you need to change your
styles into classes instead.  However even that isn't a common occurrence.

They need to make sure that they ARE using YOUR code and not putting their
asp:Table stuff around everything. They don't need to be there!  If you
see they have put those around your opening div tags which I imagine is
causing most of the problems at this stage.

All the best!
Rachel

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Wayne Douglas
Sent: Wednesday, 9 November 2005 9:12 a.m.
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Standards and .NET

http://www.codeproject.com/aspnet/ASPNET2XHTML.asp

VS2005 drastically improves this situ.

hth

:]

w

Chris Kennon wrote:

 Hi,

 Yesterday I spoke with you all regarding issues with using CSS and 
 .NET. Below is the site underdevelopment. I'm told div's are casuing a 
 problem, in addition to tdth

 Could someone look over this and offer suggestions, on Standards based 
 implementation with .NET



 /Today we found screen resolution Problem.  Please test different screen/
 /resolutions also try to use tables instead of div tags./
 /
 /
 Try the following link to get an idea of what we are getting.


 http://www.red-threads.com/beacontest/processes.aspx

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RE: [WSG] standards, accessability and validation?

2005-11-02 Thread Rachel Radford
We have moved a lot into .net stuff while still keeping it css layout, and
although yes it did take time, our programmer now does this as normal
practice.  So it is possible!!  It does take more time and effort for the
programmer.  You just have to make sure that they don't use the pre-built
.net modules because visual basic puts in tables and junk around it all.  

The other thing to be aware of is that sometimes they will need to use
visual basic's id values which sometimes forces you to use classes even
where id's would be more appropriate.  However our process usually works
where I design and build the front-end code, then the programmer integrates
this code into the .net stuff, so I might have more control over the xhtml +
css than you might?  Perhaps it would be worth trying to get the rights to
build the front-end code too?

The way the css layouts look in visual basic is much like the design view of
dreamweaver - not hot and so you can't use it as an indication of what it
will look like in the browser.  Yes some stuff does generate tables, such as
the pre-built modules (which they can change, but usually don't...) and
database generated content.  However now our programmer understands
standards stuff I haven't had a problem with tables turning up where they
shouldn't be or anything.  Sometimes the data tables that it does generate
are extraneous - empty cells and such.

Best of luck!!  It will likely be something that will develop over time
while the programmers understand the importance and get used to working with
standard and accessible code.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of kvnmcwebn
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 9:00 a.m.
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] standards, accessability and validation?

props to everyone who provided feedback on this post earlier.
(regarding designing accessible sites 
for non standards savy programmers to mark up)

I spoke with programmers today.
They were more receptive than i'd expected. 
They agreed give standards a go by 
easing into css based design one step at a time.

I think out of all the great advice i got just being humble 
and not making them feel inferior was the most important. The
conversation would have been a lot shorter if i had tried to preach.
Also the accesibilty points/screen reader argument were huge.

The big concern is how non-table layouts will show up in visual 
studio during database/form development...also that some of the dynamic
content generation creates tables. Anyway were off to a good start. 

-best
kvnmcwebn




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RE: [WSG] Firefox filter?

2005-10-30 Thread Rachel Radford
Hi Kenny,
As far as I can tell it is all about how the browser plays and handles the
animated GIFs.  I have found that FF using animated GIFs as backgrounds will
play the animation once on each page and it takes a refresh or navigating to
a new page to play the animation again.

I actually found Safari to be the most frustrating with animated GIFs as
backgrounds - it depends on what element the GIF is placed as a background,
but it will only play the first frame and stop.

But yes, IE plays the animations perfectly each time as expected.

However on site that I used animated GIFs as backgrounds it wasn't so much
of an issue as they were little extras, not on navigation.  I have not found
any work around or solution so I'm afraid I can't help you any further.

Rachel

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Kenny Graham
Sent: Saturday, 29 October 2005 8:17 p.m.
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Firefox filter?

 I would be concerned about a bug only showing up in Firefox, I believe
 that hiding something from Firefox is not the way to go, but rather,
 make it right in Firefox and then worry about the others.

Usually I'd agree.  But in this case, that won't work. :(
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RE: [WSG] Complex form - markup help?!

2005-10-20 Thread Rachel Radford
*Thank you* everyone for your layout suggestions! - yes Peter that does make
a lot more sense doesn't it?!  I think I must need some sleep. HAHA!

Any advice then on the best way to lay it out in that format?  Could each
row be a fieldset and the legend positioned on the right...   Still very
complicated...

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Peter Ottery
Sent: Friday, 21 October 2005 5:23 p.m.
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Complex form - markup help?!

Hi Rachel,
before you dive into the markup ( i'm not sure if this is much help
to you)  but if you can simplify the proposed visual design you may be
able to save yourself some pain in the css layout (cause agreed, it
would be fairly complex)

it took me a while to understand the form and what columns related to
what. i think it has some usability problems. are you able to lay it
out a bit simpler? something like this maybe?
http://skunkworks.farcrycms.com/pot/temp/complexform2.gif
going with something like that would require much fewer hooks to get
everything aligning right.

i realise this is off the topic of standards but it all fits in
together at some point

cheers,
pete :)


On 10/21/05, Rachel Radford wrote:
 I am completely stumped as to what the best way to attack the markup for
 this form:
 http://www.heliocell.com/complexform.gif

 It isn't a data table and yet there are headers there and it is in
 columns... so not sure if it warrants being in a table or if everything
 should be divs. But then also unsure how it would all fit together as a
 form.

 It is an internal application for a limited number of people, and
 accessibility therefore isn't a major concern - although obviously I would
 like to make it as accessible as possible in case there is need for it in
 the future.

 Anyone able to give me any advice on how to tackle this one?!
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RE: [WSG] liquid faux columns

2005-10-19 Thread Rachel Radford
Hi Ted,

I haven't tried it out, but at WE05 in one of the presentations there was
images given a percentage width for fluididity. Check it out:
http://we05.com/podcast/ Russ Weakley's one.

I guess you could apply it to backgrounds too??? I've been meaning to
try it myself.

But yes, it will be LOVELY when we can have multiple backgrounds!!


Rachel

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Ted Drake
Sent: Thursday, 20 October 2005 12:02 p.m.
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] liquid faux columns


Hi All
I'm working on a project in its initial stages and thought about using a
simple background image to create flexible columns. Here's a sketch:

   |  |
   |  |
   |  |
   |  |


Sounds simple enough?  However, I'd like the columns to be flexible. So, my
first thought was to create two background images, one for the right and one
for the left and apply them to the div and another element. But that doesn't
sound like the best idea, I still need them to vary their distances.  Here's
my next idea: create a single background image of a line. Apply it as the
background with a style like this:  
#targeted-div {background: url(line.gif} 33% 0 repeat-y;} 
and just for simplicity 
#inner-div {background: url(line.gif} 66% 0 repeat-y;}

I'd try this out right now, but I'm editor less at this moment.

Has anyone tried something like this? Do you have any suggestions?  Wouldn't
it be nice if we could use the new CSS properties for multiple backgrounds?

Thanks
Ted
www.tdrake.net


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RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE

2005-08-30 Thread Rachel Radford
Thanks everyone for your reply, I'll try each option today...

David - these are HTML 4.0 pages because of the content management it is
running off... so it doesn't seem to be just an XHTML problem. Hmmm...

Irina - thanks for pointing out the background stuff when javascript is
turned off... will be doing something about that!!

Thanks,
Rach 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of David Hucklesby
Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 5:49 a.m.
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:19:33 +1200, Rachel Radford wrote:

 We have just launched a site (www.eastwoodhill.org.nz) but have
 received feedback that IE for windows is crashing!!!  We have
 figured out that it is a bit of Javascript making it crash  this
 bit of Javascript mimicks the CSS min-max behaviour that is needed
 for the navigation and for some images that have captions
 underneath them such as the one on the home page.

Hi Rachel,

We observed the same problem in my web class. I have reason to
believe that this only happens on XHTML documents. At least, one
document I had coded as HTML 4 strict did not have this problem.

This may not be a viable solution for you, but you may like to give
it a try. Seems to be an IE6 on Win XP SP2 problem only. Again,
I may be wrong. Needs testing.

BTW - IE did not exactly crash for us - it simply locked up.

Cordially,
David
-- 
David Hucklesby, on 8/30/2005
http://www.hucklesby.com/
--


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RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE - no javascript

2005-08-30 Thread Rachel Radford
Thanks Ryan, that's a great article - I love Stu Nichols stuff! 
But not sure how I would implement it as it is only applied on the menu
items which are list-items...?

But for now I have made it a fixed width - it's stopped the crashing, looks
okay. Only sacrifice is that at 800 by 600 the last navigation item is
dropping onto another line and looks funny.

Thanks everyone for your help, suggestions and feedback.

Rach :0)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Ryan Blunden
Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 11:55 a.m.
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE - no javascript

Hi Rachael,

Although some may not agree with this method because of the need for
multiple div wrappers, the solution at
http://www.cssplay.co.uk/boxes/width2.html I think is great because it
appears to work in IE5+, doesn't require any javascript and works in
standards compliant browsers that understand the min-width CSS property.

Best Regards,
Ryan

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Rachel Radford
Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 7:01 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE

Thanks everyone for your reply, I'll try each option today...

David - these are HTML 4.0 pages because of the content management it is
running off... so it doesn't seem to be just an XHTML problem. Hmmm...

Irina - thanks for pointing out the background stuff when javascript is
turned off... will be doing something about that!!

Thanks,
Rach 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of David Hucklesby
Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 5:49 a.m.
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:19:33 +1200, Rachel Radford wrote:

 We have just launched a site (www.eastwoodhill.org.nz) but have 
 received feedback that IE for windows is crashing!!!  We have figured 
 out that it is a bit of Javascript making it crash  this bit of 
 Javascript mimicks the CSS min-max behaviour that is needed for the 
 navigation and for some images that have captions underneath them such 
 as the one on the home page.

Hi Rachel,

We observed the same problem in my web class. I have reason to believe that
this only happens on XHTML documents. At least, one document I had coded as
HTML 4 strict did not have this problem.

This may not be a viable solution for you, but you may like to give it a
try. Seems to be an IE6 on Win XP SP2 problem only. Again, I may be wrong.
Needs testing.

BTW - IE did not exactly crash for us - it simply locked up.

Cordially,
David
--
David Hucklesby, on 8/30/2005
http://www.hucklesby.com/
--


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[WSG] IE, Ordered Lists and width on LI

2005-08-18 Thread Rachel Radford
Hi all,
I’ve found that if I have an ol and a width specified through the css on
the li that IE doesn’t actually number the list!  They all turn up as
number 1!  Can someone explain why this would be… and does anyone know of a
way around it?  I have a bottom border on my li’s that looks very weird if
the width isn’t there…!

Rachel Radford
(+64-4-384-3546
: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
*Heliocell | Online Solutions
12 Knigges Ave
PO Box 6859
Marion Square
Wellington
ýwww.heliocell.com
 
PLEASE NOTE: This email message and accompanying data may contain
information that is confidential and subject to legal privilege. If you are
not the intended recipient you are notified that any use dissemination
distribution or copying of this message or data is prohibited. If you have
received this email message in error please notify us immediately and erase
all copies of the message and attachments.  Any views expressed in this
message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states
them, with requisite authority, to be those of Heliocell Ltd. The recipient
stated is the sole intended recipient and this email is not to be forwarded
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RE: [WSG] Align text vertically in a division

2005-08-09 Thread Rachel Radford
Hi everyone,
I'm replying to this because I am also stuck on the same issue. 

I have horizontal navigation that is floated (son of suckerfish style) and
that has relative widths for scalable fonts. Some of the navigation text
runs onto two lines, and some of them are short enough to be on one line. So
problem is the one-liners are at the top of the navigation item and I would
like them to be vertically centered. Can't use line-height trick because
then the two liner nav items get massive line spacing!  Menu is generated
dynamically from CMS database so can't muck with the source code in any way.

Is there any other reliable way of mimicking the old-school valign for table
layouts? I realy don't want to use hacky stuff or any javascript stuff
cause already there is so much hacks just for IE!!!

Rach

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of David Laakso
Sent: Wednesday, 10 August 2005 3:16 a.m.
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Align text vertically in a division

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hello All,

I am sure that you have described this issue thousand times before, but I
cannot find the trick that will do this easily : how do you center text
vertically in a division ?
Easy to do with tables of course, but I would like to avoid using tables at
all.
euh ... as we say in French ... sorry if the question seems stupid.
Pat

There is no such thing as a  stupid question. However, there are often 
stupid answers, and this may be one of them:
CenteringTextVertically-- css-d wiki.
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CenteringTextVertically
Regards,
David Laakso

-- 
David Laakso
http://www.dlaakso.com/


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RE: [WSG] a few more issues with page layout with definition list

2005-08-04 Thread Rachel Radford
Hi Bruce,
It's looking good but quite different between FF and IE... 

Try putting a negative top margin on the image with the hand and key... that
should fix that problem for Firefox. But you might need to make it
conditional so that IE 6 won't do it too.  From a design point of view
perhaps a background colour on the div id=maincontent_image so that you
don't get the green colour below the image and so you create a visual
column??

With your dt... first of all set your margins and padding to 0. That will
give you a clean slate to work from to add your positioning and it *should*
(hopefully!) make it look the same in both IE and FF.

Hope that helps!

Rachel

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Bruce Gilbert
Sent: Friday, 5 August 2005 5:51 a.m.
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] a few more issues with page layout with definition list

Hello,

thanks for the information about using a definition list to layout
thumbnail images and text. I think this is a great way to do things. I
am still having some layout issues looking at firefox on the PC
though.

take a look at
http://www.wealthdevelopmentmortgage.com/test/test_file_home.htm
and the CSS at http://www.wealthdevelopmentmortgage.com/test/WDM.css

the thumbnail images and the text, aren't quite aligning like I
want.The dt shoul align to the right off the image above the dd list.
and a little for space between the image and text.

another small issue I am seeing is the picture with the hand holding
the key has some unwanted spacing at the top before you get to the
darker green bar. I need to get rid of that spacing and am not sure
where it is coming from.

Any assistance on this is greatly appreciated!!! 

-- 
::Bruce::
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RE: [WSG] a few more issues with page layout with definition list

2005-08-04 Thread Rachel Radford
There are many ways of making a css rule so that different browsers see it
differently (do a google search for css filters...) but the way I do it
would  be like this:

div#maincontent_image{/*used as a holder and placement for main images which
appear on a page*/
float:left;
width:214px;
height:366px;
border-right:1px solid #333;
margin:0 1.5em 0 0;/*top margin for IE*/
background-color:#363;
}

div#maincontentdiv#maincontent_image{/*for FF*/
margin-top:-1.14em;
}

Because IE doesn't understand the  child selector so it will ignore that
rule.

It's looking mint in FF!  Good work!!


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Bruce Gilbert
Sent: Friday, 5 August 2005 10:25 a.m.
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] a few more issues with page layout with definition list

On 8/4/05, Rachel Radford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Bruce,
 It's looking good but quite different between FF and IE...
 
 Try putting a negative top margin on the image with the hand and key...
that
 should fix that problem for Firefox. But you might need to make it
 conditional so that IE 6 won't do it too.  From a design point of view
 perhaps a background colour on the div id=maincontent_image so that you
 don't get the green colour below the image and so you create a visual
 column??

Hey Rachel and group,

thanks for the tip about the neg. margin. Looks good in FF now but it
did mess up IE. What would a conditional statement for IE 6 consist
of?

here is the CSS in question:

div#maincontent_image{/*used as a holder and placement for main images
which appear on a page*/
float:left;
width:214px;
height:366px;
border-right:1px solid #333;
margin:-1.14em 1.5em 0 0;
background-color:#363;
}

http://www.wealthdevelopmentmortgage.com/test/test_file_home.htm
http://www.wealthdevelopmentmortgage.com/test/WDM.css
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[WSG] Accessible Flash?

2005-07-06 Thread Rachel Radford
Hi I'm wondering if anyone is able to give me any pointers of creating an
accessible flash movie?

I have this site: http://www.thesurveycompany.com which I am aiming to
change to an accessible flash movie and insert in the page using flash
satay.  I've read articles on how to make the flash movie accessible
(http://www.macromedia.com/resources/accessibility/) and I would like to
have the buttons in the flash movie come into the tab-order.  I've tried
what it says in the article on that page, but it's not tabbing onto the
buttons.

Has anyone done something similar before and able to give any pointers??

Is there anything else that should be considered when looking into making
flash accessible?

Thanks!

Rachel


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RE: [WSG] Accessible Flash?

2005-07-06 Thread Rachel Radford
That's great - thank you!!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Nathan Rutman
Sent: Thursday, 7 July 2005 12:18 p.m.
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessible Flash?

Rachel,

See question #6 on WSG's own Ten Questions for Russ Weakley.  He 
addresses that very issue:
http://webstandardsgroup.org/features/russ-weakley.cfm#flash

Hope that helps,
-Nate

*Nathan Rutman* ([EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
Corporate Communications Designer

*Solvepoint Corporation*
882 South Matlack Street, Suite 110
West Chester, PA 19382
800.388.1850 x1208
484.356.0990 (fax)
www.solvepoint.com http://www.solvepoint.com



Rachel Radford wrote:

Hi I'm wondering if anyone is able to give me any pointers of creating an
accessible flash movie?

I have this site: http://www.thesurveycompany.com which I am aiming to
change to an accessible flash movie and insert in the page using flash
satay.  I've read articles on how to make the flash movie accessible
(http://www.macromedia.com/resources/accessibility/) and I would like to
have the buttons in the flash movie come into the tab-order.  I've tried
what it says in the article on that page, but it's not tabbing onto the
buttons.

Has anyone done something similar before and able to give any pointers??

Is there anything else that should be considered when looking into making
flash accessible?

Thanks!

Rachel


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RE: [WSG] Jumping text in FF and Netscape

2005-05-01 Thread Rachel Radford








Hi Cole,

I am having the same problem on a website
that Im working on and Im also stuck hmm! Let us know if
you find a solution  Id be interested!!











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cole Kuryakin - x7m
Sent: Monday, 2 May 2005 3:43 p.m.
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Jumping text in FF
and Netscape







Hello everyone -











I've got this not-so-critical but annoying problem with text below an
image. When the page loads, there'stoo much space (between the bottom of
the image and top of the text), but if you refresh the browser, the text snaps
back to the correct position.











This only happens in FF and Netscape - and only happens on the 2nd and
3rd images. It doesn't happen on the first image at all (strange?), nor
doesIt happen in IE - which leads me to believe that I've left something
out of the css.











Here's the page in question: www.sheavens.com











The first small image on the left, as well as it's caption looks as it
should.











On the second and third image, however, there's too much space between
the bottom of the image and the top of the image caption.











As stated before, if you hit refresh, the text snaps back to the
correct spacing.











Here's the rule I've got for the text beneath the image:











#sideBarGallery p.caption {
margin: 5px 0px 15px 0px;
padding: 0;
font: bold 8px Verdana, sans-serif;
color: #003399;
}











The rule I have for all images is:











img {
display: block;
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
border: 0;
}











Anyone know what I'm doing wrong here?











Cole










RE: [WSG] device independence

2005-04-18 Thread Rachel Radford
You say try  test extensively... but from what I've seen there is SO much
variation between rendering on different cell phone and PDA's.  And I don't
know about the rest of the world, but in NZ it is VERY expensive to use the
browsing on the cell phone.  

Is there a web site or an accurate way of 'testing' websites on PDA's and
cell phones if you don't have access to them?  The only testing websites
I've found did a really really bad job of showing you what it would look
like and was a waste of time?



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Alessandro Calleri
Sent: Tuesday, 19 April 2005 1:31 a.m.
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] device independence

Actually i don't know any specific pitfalls to build web site for cell
phone, in this case i build a specific CSS that disable image and
positioning attribute. I also specify the text size in Em (that wold
be a reasonable mannet to adapt text to screen size). Surely, now
cell-phone are interesting device to use for view web pages, but i
think that we have to wait a pair of year until this medium will
explode in this sense. In order to develop a web site for cell phone i
think that the best solution is write a standard compliant Css/XHTML
code and trytest it extensively

the device indipendence is actually possible, even if you consider
flash. last Saturday i went to a press conference were has been
presentef the last version of www.fotografiafestival.it, the official
site of the international photo festiva in Rome(Italy). I know
personally the developer  and i can assure that they have made a great
work to bouid a flash site that display accessible (triple A
conformance), cross-browser and device indipendent. If you want you
can surf into fotografiafestival also with your cell phone.

i don't know exactily the hacks that they have used to do so, but as i
can understand, the real problem to solve regard the plugin detection.
thanks to a well formed javascript they are able to build a site
compeletely accessible and browser indipendent. (and we speak about a
site on photo and image builded in flash).

Take a look and try it with different browser (also a screen reader).
www.fotografiafestival.it

On 4/16/05, Kvnmcwebn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I am only now starting to think about cell phones as a valid medium for
 veiwing web pages.
 What are some common pitfalls of building websites with regards to device
 independence-especially when considering flash?
 If any meadia in your xhtml doc will degrade to basic html/css sans plug
ins
 are we safe enough?
 
 Thanks
 -Kvnmcwebn
 
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