[WSG] Explorer woes with list dropdowns
Hello fellow web standard groupies. I have built a dropdown menu using lists. It works in Firefox and Safari but doesn't seem to work in IE6 or 7. Any suggestions? http://www.treasurehillskihomes.com/TESTING/navtest.html Greatly appreciated! Shane Helm www.sonze.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Explorer woes with list dropdowns
Seems I got it working in IE 6. The background color cannot be the same for the css from .menus a, .menus :visited and from .menus :hover the two values must be different, or the script wont work. Can anyone confirm it is working in IE 7? http://www.treasurehillskihomes.com/TESTING/navtest.html Thanks! Shane On Jan 28, 2008, at 8:52 PM, Shane Helm wrote: Hello fellow web standard groupies. I have built a dropdown menu using lists. It works in Firefox and Safari but doesn't seem to work in IE6 or 7. Any suggestions? http://www.treasurehillskihomes.com/TESTING/navtest.html Greatly appreciated! Shane Helm www.sonze.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] dropdown menus
I have a few clients who want dropdown menus used in the main navigation of their websites because 'so-and-so' has it on their site. I attempt to explain the problems they have over forms, Flash, Google maps, etc. and they are inconsistent in browsers. I thought I would bring this before the group to hear your opinions on using dropdown menus. How do you feel about them? What is the best method for usability? Thank you, Shane Helm Sonze.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Safari 1.3 vs Safari 2 differences
Oh no. Not another browser difference to account for. When does it ever end? :) (Please excuse me if this has been discussed before and I missed it.) Has anyone else been noticing differences on sites rendering differently in Safari 1.3 vs Safari 2? I sure have in the 2 latest sites I've been involved in. Anyone know a good resource to read or what exactly is different? Just wondering. Thanks for your time. Shane Helm www.sonze.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] double space after period
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Russ, My thought exactly! Depending on the font, there are times when it is difficult to determine, at first glance, where sentences begin and end. By the way, I still use a double space at the end of a period as we were taught this in grammar and writing classes, not typing! ;-) Suzanne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Me too. For the very same reason. Shane Helm sonzeDesignStudio www.sonze.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] ie INSANITY ... please help me
On Feb 10, 2005, at 9:31 PM, Mani Sheriar wrote: The H1 for the first article (at the top left) does not display in IE. It does not show up at all, even though the code is exactly the same as it is for the following two articles. What shows up is just blank white space. The icon (small arrow) for the H2 (showing the author's name) shows up when the page first loads, but not after one has scrolled down and then back up. After that it disappears. Huh?!?!?! Once again, the code in this first article div is exactly the same as the following ones. What is going on here? Can anyone help me before I need to be put in a padded room? At least stay half way out of the padded room. :) All works well in Mac IE. BTW, I'm liking the renditions you have made to the aesthetics of the site since I saw it last. No Windows here to help with the rest. Sorry. Shane Helm sonzeDesignStudio www.sonze.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] 1. Unwanted Gap 2. Flash files shift when scrolling in Firefox
Hello all. I have 2 problems with the following pages. These pages do validate. I have not seen these on a PC. Mac IE gets it all right, but I have a couple of problems with Mac Safari and Mac Firefox. XHTML page: http://sonze.com/dvre/who.html CSS page: http://sonze.com/dvre/css/internal.css 1. In Mac Safari and Mac Firefox there is an unwanted gap between div id=navigation and div id=content . This gap does not exist in Mac IE. Can you tell me where I've gone wrong and a fix and why ? Thank you. 2. The navigation that the client wants is going to be done in Flash (I know most of you believe this is wrong so there is no need in you reminding of it.). There is also a Flash presentation on this page. There are incomplete Flash files as holders currently in the code. When I view this page (http://sonze.com/dvre/who.html) in Mac Firefox and scroll the Flash files scroll at a different rate than the other divs (they move around). Does anyone know what the problem is? I've used Flash before but never seen this shift in any of my other websites. Also, if you have time, please check in the PC browsers for me and report. Thank you very much! Shane Helm sonzeDesignStudio www.sonze.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] What's up with Mac IE and floats?
Hello Everyone. I'm not sure if I made myself clear enough in the last email. This may help better. What's up with Mac IE and floats? This page works in PC IE and FF and all the browsers on Mac except IE. Please view this page http://sonze.com/dvre/who.html for me. It works fine on Mac Safari, Netscape, Firefox but in IE the right column float is falling below that previous div> instead of to the right of it. Does anyone know what the problem is and the solution to fix it? The CSS file is here http://sonze.com/dvre/css/internal.css Notice anything wrong in my coding? The CSS XHTML validate. XHTML Page: http://sonze.com/dvre/who.html CSS: http://sonze.com/dvre/css/internal.css Thank you! Shane Helm sonzeDesignStudio www.sonze.com
Re: [WSG] What's up with Mac IE and floats?
Philippe Wittenbergh wrote: the problem is the clear:left on you #container which is kind of inherited in IE Mac See http://www.l-c-n.com/IE5tests/float2misc/#fm002 Awesome! That did it. Thanks a ton! No need for other responses. I'm not even quite sure why I had the clear:left on the container anyway. Thanks for the article. I'll study it this weekend. Happy Member, Shane Helm sonzeDesignStudio www.sonze.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] befuddled over IE with Floats
I'm sure I'm overlooking something simple (hopefully). My floats (right column) mess up in Mac IE 5.2.3. I don't have a Windows machine so I'm unsure if it is messed up in IE there too. Probably is. Any help or advice on a fix for this is welcome. XHTML Page: http://sonze.com/dvre/who.html CSS: http://sonze.com/dvre/css/internal.css Thank you! Shane Helm sonzeDesignStudio www.sonze.com
[WSG] cssedit review
I've been reading the member's reviews of editors in the thread Help - newbie. Upon this subject I am interested to know if any of you have used CSSEdit from http://www.macrabbit.com/cssedit/ I am considering a new editor and am asking for reviews, pros cons of this program. Does it have built in ftp? Does it have syntax highlighting? Does it have validation built in? Is the preview accurate? What do you like and dislike about the program? Any info would be appreciated. Thank you very much! Happy Coding, Shane Helm sonzeDesignStudio www.sonze.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] External Links Won't Validate (URL Cleaner doesn't help)
Hello Group. Happy New Year! I have a site that just went live: http://www.willlange.com/. There are 5 pages that have external links that cause the page not to validate. These links are called into an iFrame to give search results for real estate product. In the past when I have had this problem with external links, I've used URL Cleaner: http://automaticlabs.com/products/urlcleaner/ to clean up the code and then validate the pages. The problem I'm having now is the URL Cleaner doesn't even help because it causes errors with the search results. What do I do at this point? Is there a way to fix the problem or do I have to admit defeat and have 5 pages that don't validate? The latter annoys me. Here is one of the pages as an example (all 5 pages have the same links so fixing one will do the trick): http://www.willlange.com/listluxury.html Thanks! Shane Helm sonzeDesignStudio www.sonze.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] External Links Won't Validate (URL Cleaner doesn't help)
= amp; -- Jan Brasna :: alphanumeric.cz | webcore.cz | designlab.cz | janbrasna.com I tried amp; but it doesn't work for these external links to this particular external website. That's the whole issue. Shane Helm sonzeDesignStudio www.sonze.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] External Links Won't Validate (URL Cleaner doesn't help)
Change to amp;, e.g. http://www.pcmls.com/willlange/cgi-bin/aa.fcgi?aacmd=resultsamp; id=dauckfamp;r=1amp;f=0amp;t=0 -- Patrick H. Lauke Did you test this link you just sent me because it doesn't work? That's the issue. When you change to amp; the link no longer works. I am very familiar with the practice but it does not work with the site I am linking to. Shane Helm sonzeDesignStudio www.sonze.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] IE PC Problem with
My problem is only in IE on the PC. This is the last issue I am having problems with on this site. I can't figure it out but am hoping I am forgetting something simple. On this page: http://www.willlange.com/index.html between the top button that says SUBSCRIBE TO OUR NEWSLETTER and the 12px tan border of the header bar there is a green space where those 2 graphics aren't lining up. Got any reason why this is a problem? Can it simply be fixed in the external CSS file without changing every page of the site? Example URL: http://www.willlange.com/index.html Image example of problem with text pointing to the problem: http://willlange.com/gap/gap.html CSS file: http://www.willlange.com/css/master.css Thanks a ton! Shane Helm sonzeDesignStudio www.sonze.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE PC Problem with
Bert Doorn wrote: Try putting the image map (if it's really necessary to use that), somewhere else in the document, rather than in the flow, or remove the spaces inside the map.../map. Seems that's the cause of the problem. I made these changes but I am not near a PC at the moment. Could you check this page http://www.willlange.com/index.html to see if the problem is corrected (that no gap exists now). Thanks, Shane Helm sonzeDesignStudio www.sonze.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] New music site barring non IE browsers
Unbelievable! On Nov 30, 2004, at 9:08 PM, Dave Rayner wrote: I went to check out http://hmv.ninemsn.com.au using Firefox and it gave me this: The site you have tried to enter requires Internet Explorer 6 (or better) with Windows Media Player 7 (or better) on Windows XP, 2000, Me or 98. Click Here to use our Doctor Download application to help you check your configuration alternatively Email Dr Download. Please try again. Just when i was feeling confident about the web's progression, i see that. It goes against a few really big things that web standards and the WSG is fighting for. I sent an email the 'doctor' just to show how disappointed i was. That'll teach 'em. dave rayner web www.freshweb.com.au m. 0409 037 250 p. +61 2 89202344 f. +61 2 89203008 This message is confidential, and may contain proprietary or legally privileged information. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it immediately. Internet communications are not secure. You should scan this message and any attachments for viruses. Under no circumstances do we accept liability for any loss or damage which may result from your receipt of this message or any attachments.
Re: [WSG] New music site barring non IE browsers
Even worse, is that there is no way to view the site on the Mac. Now they've wiped out 10% of computer users. That's a good bit of the population. Shane Helm On Nov 30, 2004, at 9:08 PM, Dave Rayner wrote: I went to check out http://hmv.ninemsn.com.au using Firefox and it gave me this: The site you have tried to enter requires Internet Explorer 6 (or better) with Windows Media Player 7 (or better) on Windows XP, 2000, Me or 98. Click Here to use our Doctor Download application to help you check your configuration alternatively Email Dr Download. Please try again. Just when i was feeling confident about the web's progression, i see that. It goes against a few really big things that web standards and the WSG is fighting for. I sent an email the 'doctor' just to show how disappointed i was. That'll teach 'em. dave rayner web www.freshweb.com.au m. 0409 037 250 p. +61 2 89202344 f. +61 2 89203008 This message is confidential, and may contain proprietary or legally privileged information. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it immediately. Internet communications are not secure. You should scan this message and any attachments for viruses. Under no circumstances do we accept liability for any loss or damage which may result from your receipt of this message or any attachments.
Re: [WSG] site review
like the background and logo. On Nov 30, 2004, at 9:34 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: x-tad-biggerI need everyone to take a look at my new website and give me some feedback if possible please. /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerhttp://www.jlinasdesign.com/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Thanks guys/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger J.LinasDesign Graphic Designer http://www.jlinasdesign.com/
Re: [WSG] New music site barring non IE browsers
Yep. When has Microsoft showed any real concerns for Web Standards. On Nov 30, 2004, at 9:35 PM, Matt wrote: I would guess the reason for this has been well planned, and is probably not to do with the website itself, - nineMSN is (as the name suggests) part of the Microsoft Network. The music you download from this site is in Windows Media format, and uses their licensing model, this is very big business for them, and they probably want to force potential buyers into using their proprietary format, which will impact the iPod / iTunes market. PS I am not anti Microsoft, so MS fans don't yell at me!... I am just stating why I think they have done this... business is business, but this goes against every grain of the web standards ethos. Matt On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:25:31 -0700, Shane Helm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unbelievable! On Nov 30, 2004, at 9:08 PM, Dave Rayner wrote: I went to check out http://hmv.ninemsn.com.au using Firefox and it gave me this: The site you have tried to enter requires Internet Explorer 6 (or better) with Windows Media Player 7 (or better) on Windows XP, 2000, Me or 98. Click Here to use our Doctor Download application to help you check your configuration alternatively Email Dr Download. Please try again. Just when i was feeling confident about the web's progression, i see that. It goes against a few really big things that web standards and the WSG is fighting for. I sent an email the 'doctor' just to show how disappointed i was. That'll teach 'em. dave rayner freshweb www.freshweb.com.au m. 0409 037 250 p. +61 2 89202344 f. +61 2 89203008 This message is confidential, and may contain proprietary or legally privileged information. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it immediately. Internet communications are not secure. You should scan this message and any attachments for viruses. Under no circumstances do we accept liability for any loss or damage which may result from your receipt of this message or any attachments. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Superior Tutorials
This is where I began: http://www.wpdfd.com/editorial/basics/index.html Shane Helm On Nov 23, 2004, at 12:36 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: x-tad-biggerDoes anyone know of any superior tutorial sites for CSS./x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger J.LinasDesign Graphic Designer http://www.jlinasdesign.com/
Re: [WSG] CSS drop-down menus
This works on Mac Firefox, but not in Safari or IE. Thanks, Shane Helm On Oct 31, 2004, at 1:22 AM, Florin Cojitza wrote: Or you can try: object type=application/x-shockwave-flash data=banner.swf width=250 height=50 param name=movie value=banner.swf / param name=quality value=high param name=bgcolor value=#ff param name=wmode value=transparent img src=banner.jpg width=250 height=50 alt=banner /object See param name wmode! In action at teste.iqmp.ro/romdata/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] CSS drop-down menus
I am about to start a project that I am going to use CSS drop-down menus at the very top of the web page. Directly below the menu bar will be a banner bar that will be done in Flash. So before I begin, will the CSS drop-down menus drop down over the Flash banner correctly? Thanks, Shane Helm ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] my site works on Mac, not PC :: suggestions???
Will do Mike. Thanks for the constructive criticism. I'll delete the full screen. Good suggestion. Shane Helm On Oct 16, 2004, at 6:43 PM, Michael Allan wrote: On Saturday, October 16, 2004, at 03:13 PM, Shane Helm wrote: Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! If others have solved your float problem Shane, can I suggest that you don't insist that the window resize itself to full-screen? I'm lucky enough to have a large screen (20 Apple Cinema Display, running at 1680 x 1050), like a small but presumably growing proportion of web users, and I just *don't* need to see that much of your repeating background ;-) I do however want to see the windows and applications I've got running behind my browser. To make the behaviour worse, Firefox places the resize tab *below* the window edge and out of reach, which is a pain to say the least. I'm sure you don't want to spoil the impression such a beautiful site makes on your visitors by instructing it to behaviour rudely in their environment. :o) Sorry for posting slightly off-topic, but I believe it's in keeping with the standards spirit of providing an equally enjoyable experience for every user. Cheers, Mike ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] my site works on Mac, not PC :: suggestions???
That worked! Sweet! My last problem seems also to be only in IE on the PC. Between the top button that says SUBSCRIBE TO OUR NEWSLETTER and the 12px tan border of the header bar there is a green space where those 2 graphics aren't lining up. Got any reason why this is a problem? http://sonze.com/lange/ Thanks a ton! Shane On Oct 16, 2004, at 1:44 AM, Jason Turnbull wrote: Shane Helm wrote: http://sonze.com/lange/index.html http://sonze.com/lange/bios.html Now the CSS: http://sonze.com/lange/css/master.css IE is doubling the margin on the 'right' and 'left' class, which of course allows no room for the floats to align beside each other Simply add display:inline to these two class styles http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/floatIndent.html Regards Jason ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] my site works on Mac, not PC :: suggestions???
I was having a great week in my Mac world of coding my newest client's website in CSS XHTML. All was well in my happy little MacLife. The site was working just fine in Mac Safari, Firefox, Netscape, IE 5.2.3. Then I got curious as to what was going on in the PC world. So I went to a friend's PC (using IE) and what to my wondering eyes did appear - the site was pretty jumbled and didn't adhere (to my plans). Surprised? No. Upset? Of course. So I believe we need to forget making petitions to have Microsoft update IE, how about a petition to ban Microsoft from ever creating software again! Okay I'm ranting and raving. Sorry. If some of you have a moment, can you verify that my floats are jumbled or something is awry. I believe I've cleared my floats correctly. I'm not sure where I've gone wrong, but I must get a PC to check from now on. Must go shopping. Oh no, will I actually own a PC. Dreadful... Just teasing you PC folks. :) A couple of my html pages: http://sonze.com/lange/index.html http://sonze.com/lange/bios.html Now the CSS: http://sonze.com/lange/css/master.css Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thank you, Shane Helm ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Question
Hello Jack. Welcome to WSG. Rest assured you are in the right place. Don't be afraid to ask any question no matter how stupid you might think it is. You will find a wealth of info everyday and everyone is always sharing the latest reads online to learn more. If you are serious about Web Standards, look no further. Looks like you are off to a great start. Familiarize yourself with the guidelines for the group mailing list here: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm More Info on Standards If you haven't been here already, check it out: http://www.dezwozhere.com/links.html CSS Master Dave Shea sent me to this site and I've learned a lot. Also, pick up the book standards on web standards: Eric Meyer on CSS: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/073571245X/ qid=1097620795/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/104-9409899-5355950? v=glances=booksn=507846 More Eric Meyer on CSS: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0735714258/ qid=1097620795/sr=8-2/ref=pd_csp_2/104-9409899-5355950? v=glances=booksn=507846 Designing with Web Standards: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0735712018/qid=1097620872/sr=2 -1/ref=pd_ka_2_1/104-9409899-5355950 /More Info on Standards Happy coding... Shane Helm On Oct 12, 2004, at 4:28 PM, Jack wrote: I have joined your web site group and have no idea how to use your web site. I am just a novice and want to use xhtml 1.0 and css2. I have created a site or two this way. This is my first site I created using xhtml 1.0 and css2 www.gracepointefc.org I am no longer the webmaster of the site and the person that took over did not validate any of the pages he updated but all my pages were validated. I know the site may be a joke to you experts but I would like to learn more. Is this site the wrong place for me to find help? Thank you, Jack Cramer Tecumseh, Michigan ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Ooh, Pretty Green!!!
Ooh, Pretty Green!!!
http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
The red validation always made my subconscious think something was
wrong; although it said Congratulations!. The aqua green is much
nicer!
Sorry. Just had to comment on it. This was my first time to see the
green Congratulations! in the CSS Validator.
Best,
Shane Helm
{ sonzeDesignStudio
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Re: [WSG] Is XHTML harmful?
All code of every web page should be validated. Any errors need to be corrected. If your typo is in a tag, then it could produce undesirable results. We should all make sure our code on every web page we create has no errors, whether simple typos or forgotten closing tags; whether we use HTML or XHTML. If you live by this standard, then XHTML is a viable coding option. Best, Shane Helm On Oct 6, 2004, at 12:46 PM, Manuel González Noriega wrote: Clayton Lengel-Zigich wrote: Again, higly subjective: it's neat for marchine-parsing but IMHO it's overkill to learn that you've made a teenyweeny mistake in your blog post markup by watching the bloody thing crash before your eyes Yet with each crash and burn of your blog and each little mistake you fix the more and more aware of those little mistakes you become and the cleaner your code becomes. Sure it's a pain when you forget a simple bit of markup but more often than not it's easily fixed. Often, markup errors, like natural language errors, are most likely typos than anything else. Therefore, i don't really learn anything from them and they are just a PITAs I see your point, of course and i still think it's a matter of specific scenarios + personal taste ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Are empty divs okay?
I am working on my second CSS XHTML site.
Home page thus far: http://sonze.com/lange/index.html
CSS for the page: http://sonze.com/lange/css/master.css
I have some empty div tags to be able to make a graphic a background
image since this presentation is common to all pages.
For example in my html:
div id=header3/div
My CSS for header3 is as follows:
#header3
{
position: relative;
width: 836px;
height: 37px;
margin: 0 auto;
padding: 0px;
background: #2A331F url(../img/header3.gif) no-repeat;
}
Since I this is only my second site using Web Standards, I'm unsure if
leaving a div tag empty is okay or not. Or is there another method I
should be using?
Thank you very much,
Shane Helm
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Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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Re: [WSG] Are empty divs okay?
Thanks John.
Is there anyway to avoid the IE nasty margin. Should I put something
in the div to avoid it? Would nbsp or a transparent gif or something
help? How have you avoided the problem?
Thanks for your time,
Shane
On Sep 29, 2004, at 12:55 PM, John Oxton wrote:
Hi Shane,
Well, I don't know if it is okay but I've done it on more than one
occasion.
I have noticed that Internet explorer puts a nasty margin on empty
divs, that might be something to watch out for.
J
Shane Helm wrote:
I am working on my second CSS XHTML site.
Home page thus far: http://sonze.com/lange/index.html
CSS for the page: http://sonze.com/lange/css/master.css
I have some empty div tags to be able to make a graphic a background
image since this presentation is common to all pages.
For example in my html:
div id=header3/div
My CSS for header3 is as follows:
#header3
{
position: relative;
width: 836px;
height: 37px;
margin: 0 auto;
padding: 0px;
background: #2A331F url(../img/header3.gif) no-repeat;
}
Since I this is only my second site using Web Standards, I'm unsure
if leaving a div tag empty is okay or not. Or is there another
method I should be using?
Thank you very much,
Shane Helm
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/
Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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Re: [WSG] Are empty divs okay?
Thanks Paul.
I haven't defined my h1-h6 styles yet just because I haven't gotten
that far yet, but I will. I can change my header3 id to something
more semantic. I currently was just using it to define a background
image that needs no image replacement because it is not an actual text
header, but it is part of the interface design. Maybe I should title
it something more like interface3.
Therefore my question still exists:
For example in my html:
div id=interface3/div
My CSS for interface3 would be as follows:
#interface3
{
position: relative;
width: 836px;
height: 37px;
margin: 0 auto;
padding: 0px;
background: #2A331F url(../img/header3.gif) no-repeat;
}
If I use this, is it okay to leave the div empty as in div
id=background3/div or should I fill the div with something that
the user will never see even if CSS is enabled or not. Make sense?
John Oxten mentioned that this may cause a nasty margin in IE. Can
this be avoided and what is the proper way or is it fine to leave it
empty? Does a non-breaking space make a difference with the IE
problem?
My reference files for the question keeping in mind that header3
would be changed to something more semantic like interface3:
Home page thus far: http://sonze.com/lange/index.html
CSS for the page: http://sonze.com/lange/css/master.css
Thanks again guys,
Shane
My basic question is, Is it okay to leave a div empty in order just to
show a background image?
On Sep 29, 2004, at 1:13 PM, Paul Novitski wrote:
At 11:35 AM 9/29/2004, Shane Helm wrote:
I have some empty div tags to be able to make a graphic a background
image since this presentation is common to all pages.
For example in my html:
div id=header3/div
My CSS for header3 is as follows:
#header3
{
position: relative;
width: 836px;
height: 37px;
margin: 0 auto;
padding: 0px;
background: #2A331F url(../img/header3.gif) no-repeat;
}
Since I this is only my second site using Web Standards, I'm unsure
if leaving a div tag empty is okay or not. Or is there another
method I should be using?
Shane,
Consider using h1-h6 for headlines on your page. Semantically they
mean headings while a div is merely an anonymous division. Your
page should make sense when your stylesheet is missing. If you view
your page without CSS or images, does it lose meaning without the
headline showing? If so, here's an alternative way to mark that up:
h3spanFrog Doggies/span/h3
h3
{
background: ...;
}
h3 span
{
display: none;
}
If CSS is enabled, the image displays and the text is suppressed.
If CSS isn't enabled, the text displays but not the image.
Where this image replacement solution fails is in user agents in
which CSS is enabled but images are suppressed.
Paul
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Re: [WSG] Table-Free Design
Okay. When I wanted to learn I went straight to the guru Dave Shea.
He gave me the best 2 resources:
1. Eric Meyer on CSS You can find this book here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/073571245X/
qid=1071555113/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-5606242-1912942?v=glances=books
2. http://www.dezwozhere.com/links.html
This is a page of links for all things CSS. I'm on it all the time.
Wow what a resource.
This page took me to the beginning place that I learned it all. Go
through this tutorial and you'll be doing exactly what you just asked
in a matter of hours:
http://www.wpdfd.com/editorial/basics/index.html (CSS from the ground
up) and specifically steps 7 - 9. The chances are you'll now the first
few steps already. I did when I went through it, but it was a good
refresher and it explains some good typography tips.
I hope these help.
Also read these group discussions everyday and don't be afraid to ask
anything on subject. Also listen to Hugh Todd. He knows his stuff.
He saved me in a crunch!
Shane Helm
{ sonzeDesignStudio
On Aug 15, 2004, at 11:39 PM, John Horner wrote:
If I want to find solid building blocks for a table-free layout, where
should I start?
I mean, I know there are hundreds of websites, but the recommendations
of this group ought to be particularly useful.
The thing is, I want a lot! In terms of the page, I'm simply looking
for
* banner
* three-column flexible layout for the main content
* footer
but I'm hoping that the page doesn't exhibit any strange behaviours
when the page gets too small/content gets too bit, like DIVs
overlapping each other or disappearing to the bottom of the page, and
I'm even hoping that the layout can be content-first, nav-second in
the source.
I was also hoping that the CSS can be relatively straightforward and
not consist of 147 nested @import statements full of
high-pass/low-pass filters and box model hack code etc.
Am I asking too much? I won't be trying to support Netscape 4, if that
helps...
jh
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Re: [WSG] Image size--where should it be?
Is there really any reason to have it either place? Isn't it just extra code that doesn't have to be there? On Aug 12, 2004, at 6:29 PM, Joshua Street wrote: Well, the W3C validation page recommends using either! Demonstrating valid CSS: p a href=http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/; img style=border:0;width:88px;height:31px src=http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/images/vcss; alt=Valid CSS! / /a /p Demonstrating valid XHTML: p a href=http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=referer;img src=http://www.w3.org/Icons/valid-xhtml10; alt=Valid XHTML 1.0! height=31 width=88 //a /p Personally, I'd go the CSS, but it doesn't really matter... (I don't think) Joshua Street base10solutions http://www.base10solutions.com/ -Original Message- From: Edd Hale [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Fri 13-Aug-04 9:59 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Subject:[WSG] Image size--where should it be? I am new to CSS and I am not sure if the image size (width and height) should appear in the HTML or be handled by CSS. Thank you. Edd winmail.dat ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] The F-word (frames that is)
Since the frame will reference your website (pulling your site in as an external site into the main frame), your pages will reference your style sheets. No need to worry.
I hate frames too.
Shane Helm
{ sonzeDesignStudio
On Aug 4, 2004, at 5:01 PM, Ted Drake wrote:
I'm putting together our new web site css-layout. There are a few web sites that put our site into their frameset. If they take my lovely css-formatted page and stick it in their ugly, poorly styled web page built with nasty frames... Could their stylesheet over-ride my style sheet or will the separate html of my page withstand the abuse?
Can you tell how happy I am with frames?
Ted
[WSG] The appearance of Frames without Frames, only CSS
Wow. Cool. Awesome!
Okay, okay, I am excited about something that others may find trivial.
But, I am a newbie to CSS XHTML and just finished my first site
using both (http://www.theinnatsilverlake.com/).
Now I came across a site today that wowed me. I found it on Andy
Budd's list. The site that I am referring to is
http://www.firewheeldesign.com/portfolio/shiningcity1.html
To me this site rules. The header, footer, and all common content stay
on the site without refreshing the whole page when going to a new page
(like frames work). This is something I would love to add to my
arsenal without having to use frames or iFrames (they're a mess). It
appears to me the designer is doing this with CSS (I could be wrong).
Is this so and, if so, how? I do notice this in the code source for
the page:
div class=SwitchBox and in the CSS.
Thank you for your time!
Shane Helm
{ sonzeDesignStudio
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Re: [WSG] Ikon, where are you?
Here, here! I second Ted. It's getting very annoying! I can't stand it until August 14th. Shane On Jul 30, 2004, at 2:14 PM, Ted Drake wrote: Is there anything we can do to keep the ikon messages contained for the next 2 weeks? He may be on a holiday, but he'll wish he wasn't when he gets back after two weeks of these responses. If nothing else, I think we should spread some gossip like he uses the blink tag or something like that. Ted -Original Message- From: ikon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 12:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE: [WSG] Fixed vs flexible layouts I am on holiday between the 30th July and the 14th August. I will reply to your e-mail as soon as possible on my return the following day. Thank you for your understanding. Jay Hills - Ikonik.net (This is an automated response. Please do not reply to this e-mail as it will simply send another back - Thanks) * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * ÿÿÿý8^v+ ºË¢yb²×è®m§ÿÿÁæ쵩Ýj·lº .§ú+ôzm§ÿÿÁæ쵩Ýj·lº.§ú+ù_àº'^)Þ³÷ ú+²)í²é¢Ëb h¶¥Ëÿëm x!zZ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] What to do when an External Link won't Validate?
I have a site I am working on. All the pages I've created validate
except:
http://sonze.com/isl/res1.html
An external link to another site doesn't validate (line 40). I get
several errors. Is there anything I can do to make the page validate
or is it a lost cause since I don't control the external site I'm
linking to?
Thank you in advance.
Shane Helm
{ sonzeDesignStudio
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Re: [WSG] Hiding email address from spambots with CSS
Summed up very well Justin.
And yes, Apple Mail is the best way to defend against spam (junk mail).
It has an awesome spam filter system.
Shane Helm
{ sonzeDesignStudio
On Jul 7, 2004, at 12:51 AM, Justin French wrote:
On 06/07/2004, at 10:50 PM, Neerav wrote:
I havent tried this, but it sounds interesting
http://www.phoenity.com/newtedge/hide_email_spambots/
As soon as a new technique for hiding email address' becomes widely
publicised, then *everyone* knows about it. Yes, that includes the
makers of spambots.
All they'd need to do is crawl linked stylesheets looking for
content: ...;, and then realise that \40 is an @ symbol, and hey
presto, they've found another set of email address'.
Seriously, there is no way to avoid spam if you plan on making your
email address public on a webpage -- plain and simple. if you have a
way to encode it, they'll find a way to decode it. To live in the
myth that we, the humble web developers, are smarter than hundreds or
thousands of super-geeks writing spambots to fuel their BILLION DOLLAR
industry is ludicrous.
Yes, they could decode and read javascripts, yes they could read
linked style sheets, yes they can attempt to detect text inside images
and yes they can beat whatever else you can come up with.
The ONLY fail-safe method of hiding your address from spambots is to
NOT PUBLISH IT, which means you need a contact form which only lists
names or nicknames of staff members... matching that name to an email
address is done server-side with PHP (or Perl/ASP/CFM/et al).
Even then, it's not much of a stretch to imagine a spambot parsing the
form and guessing email address' based on the names in the form,
combined with the domain name.
As said earlier in the thread, spam is best defended with filtering at
the receiving end -- I get 50-100 spam messages a day (in addition to
the ones caught by my host server-side), of which Apple Mail catches
about 98%.
---
Justin French
http://indent.com.au
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[WSG] iFrames vs Scrolling Divs
I was interested in making a site that had an iFrame that I could call
new html pages into.
So I've read that Scrolling Divs is the way to go vs. iFrames, but what
about in the case of wanting to call a new page into the iFrame? Can
this be done in a div (calling an html file into the div) or should an
iFrame be used in this case? Are iFrames old news, should I veer
totally away from them?
Thank you,
Shane Helm
{ sonzeDesignStudio
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Re: [WSG] presentation
Welcome Luca. You will find a wealth of information from WSG. I'm glad you've joined. It's great when designers can come together to make the web a better place and more accessible. I grow tired of cocky designers that don't want to share their experiences and experiments. They don't understand that it's not about being better than everyone else, but it's about helping each other to better our graphics world and the user experience. Great to have you on our team! Best of luck, Shane Helm Sonze Design Studio On Jul 2, 2004, at 12:59 PM, Luca Mascaro .info wrote: Hi i'm Luca Mascaro, i'm a newbye of the list and i'm suisse. I'm a Usability and Accessibility Engineer and a User Experience/Interface Designer. However, I want to be only introduce me :) Ps: Sorry for my bad english ;) salutes __ Luca Mascaro [Nemo] Designer e Sviluppatore Next Design Via Campagna 8 6512 Giubiasco, Svizzera tel: 0041 79 375 83 85 www: http://www.lucamascaro.info work: http://www.next-design.net __ Non chiedetevi cosa il Web può fare per voi, ma cosa voi potete fare per il Web *** Be Strict To Be Cool *** * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] 100% Inaccessible
Rant rave all you want Chris. I grow weary of lazy programmers that don't give me thought to overall design. I got your back. Shane Helm Sonze On Jun 29, 2004, at 5:53 PM, Chris Stratford wrote: I know this is OT. But I have had it up to here (**motions towards my ceiling**) with websites that dont even load in other browsers... I just send www.ebooking.com.au a very vivid email about how their website is TERRIBLY INACCESSIBLE... Try and load it in any other browser than IE... AFAIK - It wont load in: FireFox... (I assume Mozilla too then!) Safari... Just a little OT rant... No need to reply to the list. Send whatever hate URLS you have to my inbox... - Chris Stratford
Re: [WSG] Site looks fine when previewing in IE, but messy in IE online
I believe I got it. You guys helped out a lot, especially Hugh. Can you guys test again to make sure. It looks great on Mac in Safari and IE5.2.3. Can you test on PC please? http://sonze.com/isl/temp/ Thank you, Shane Helm * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Site Deconstruction, those crafty Germans
Are you serious? Is this possible? Shane On Jun 24, 2004, at 5:48 PM, ckimedia wrote: Hi, I found this wonderful site (http://www.mbusa.com/brand/index.jsp) listed at the WSG section for full CSS sites(http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/#cat9). As today is my Review and Research day, I've been peeking under the hood. If my interpretation of the rather elegant code is correct, this site has a second layout that is rendered if FLASH is not present. Can some one please confirm or correct my observation. I've sent an e-mail and poked around for other examples, but have come to rely on this rather savvy bunch for my final analysis. C * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Site looks fine when previewing in IE, but messy in IE online
Hello WSG! I have been using CSS for text styles for the last few months, but now I want to make my sites with divs and no tables! I began over the weekend learning the process and working on my first non-tables site. I have been overly excited about the process and everything was going fine until I uploaded my latest version to the web. It looks great in Safari (btw, I am a Mac user), but in IE5 it's all jumbled (why must we deal with such a crappy browser). I am very confused for a couple of reasons: First, I am obviously new to this form of web standard. Second, and most important, it looked fine in IE5 previewing it locally. So when I uploaded it and checked the page, well, I felt like Coldplay by having a rush of blood to my head. I have validated my html code css code. That's a plus. I have only tested thus far on a Mac with Safari and IE5. Here is a link to the html page: http://sonze.com/isl/temp/ Here is a link to the css page: http://sonze.com/isl/temp/css/int.css Please help if you have a moment. Thank you very much. Keep up the great work everyone! I'm ready to do my part to change the world. Shane Helm Sonze Design Studio * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Mac testers please
Looks great in Safari. Nice clean design. Great work. The site is not centering in IE 5 on the map. You have about 200px of white space between site and right border/shadow. I'm interested to know CKIMEDIA is saying about forcing white space so that the site doesn't jump horizontal when a scrollbar is needed. I hat the jump. What's this mean? How do you fix it? Sonze On Jun 22, 2004, at 8:29 AM, ckimedia wrote: Hi, Works good in safari, you could force white space so the site does not jump horizontal when a scrollbar is needed. On Tuesday, June 22, 2004, at 02:14 AM, t94xr.net.nz webmaster wrote: Hi all, I was wondering if anyone could be so kind as to test my site using IE for Mac 5+ and Safari http://www.v2.shockmedia.com.au Thanks. Damn, forget the rest of the site - put her as the only thing on the page and you'll have everyone still agreeing its a great site. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Site looks fine when previewing in IE, but messy in IE online
Thanks Hugh. Thanks for saying it looks superb.
I guess I'm too dependent on the Flash cool factor. I have changes
somewhat. I steer clients away from total Flash sites. Especially
after the length of time it took me to make
http://www.johngrammatis.com/
So a good rule of thumb is use margins on text and images instead of
CSS boxes?
I haven't tested on PC. I need to by a cheap PC to test on.
So it looks fine in Mac IE 5.2.3. That's strange. I have IE 5.2,
didn't know there was a newer version. So I just downloaded it and
well it looks great. Your right. I guess though for accessibility, I
still need to correct the problem for IE 5.2. But now that I installed
IE 5.2.3 , I can't open IE 5.2 because it forces it 5.2.3 to open.
Frustrations man, frustrations... :)
Sorry. I am so new. I'm not sure what you mean by inheritance for my
elements. Are spans bad?
Thanks for your help. I'll add the new classes and hopefully that will
help.
Have a great day!
Shane Helm
On Jun 22, 2004, at 1:45 AM, Hugh Todd wrote:
Shane,
It looks fine in all of the Mac browsers I've tried it on... IE 5.2.3,
Opera 7.5, Firefox, Safari. Are you having problems with PC versions
of IE?
I notice from the CSS that you are not specifically using inheritance
for your elements. For example, in the right hand column you have used
spans to designate the font sizes.
A better way to handle your CSS, if you wish to give different
attributes to different elements, is to use their context to apply
them.
For example (in truncated form),
#right p
{ font-size: 0.9em;
margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
#right dl
{ margin-top: 1em;
}
#right dt
{ font-size: 1.2em;
font-weight: bold;
}
#right dd
{ font-size: 0.9em;
margin: 0 0 0 0;
}
(Use the dt for the name, Jonny Totten, and dd for the address
details.)
Use a span named qualifications or something like that for the
smaller CRS type. (This gives it some semantic meaning.)
One benefit of doing things this way is that you can apply all of your
padding and margins to the type and image elements, which avoids some
of the nasty IE PC bugs.
http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer.html
It looks superb. Your navigation, however, dependent as it is on
Flash, will not please those concerned with the accessibility of
websites. (That said, there seems to be no completely
cross-platform/browser way of achieving semantically correct cascading
navigation.)
-Hugh Todd
Here is a link to the html page:
http://sonze.com/isl/temp/
Here is a link to the css page:
http://sonze.com/isl/temp/css/int.css
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Re: [WSG] Site looks fine when previewing in IE, but messy in IE online
Thanks Jeff. Shane Helm On Jun 22, 2004, at 12:49 AM, Jeff Davies wrote: Looks good in Firefox .9. In IE 6 the For more information contact: column appears bottom left rather than on the right Jeff At 07:36 22/06/2004, you wrote: Hello WSG! I have been using CSS for text styles for the last few months, but now I want to make my sites with divs and no tables! I began over the weekend learning the process and working on my first non-tables site. I have been overly excited about the process and everything was going fine until I uploaded my latest version to the web. It looks great in Safari (btw, I am a Mac user), but in IE5 it's all jumbled (why must we deal with such a crappy browser). I am very confused for a couple of reasons: First, I am obviously new to this form of web standard. Second, and most important, it looked fine in IE5 previewing it locally. So when I uploaded it and checked the page, well, I felt like Coldplay by having a rush of blood to my head. I have validated my html code css code. That's a plus. I have only tested thus far on a Mac with Safari and IE5. Here is a link to the html page: http://sonze.com/isl/temp/ Here is a link to the css page: http://sonze.com/isl/temp/css/int.css Please help if you have a moment. Thank you very much. Keep up the great work everyone! I'm ready to do my part to change the world. Shane Helm Sonze Design Studio * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * web-arts: the art craft of web design http://www.web-arts.biz * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] definition lists
I'm not sure if this is what you need, but try these links: http://www.wpdfd.com/editorial/basics/cssbasics12.html http://www.wpdfd.com/editorial/basics/cssbasics5.html Good luck, Shane Helm \\ Sonze Design Studio On Jun 22, 2004, at 12:35 PM, Ted Drake wrote: I feel stupid. I put together this huge collections project that was built on the back of the mighty definition list. Now, a mere 3 months later, I can't even get a simple dl list to line up the dt and dd elements without throwing everything out of whack. I remember there was a great tutorial on using definition lists and included several variations to make them look like tables, lists, you name it. Does anyone know where that would be? Thanks Ted * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Site looks fine when previewing in IE, but messy in IE online
Wow Hugh. It's great that you took the time to help me and grant me
encouragement. I greatly appreciate it.
This makes all the sense in the world. The one thing is I was confused
about was dl, dt, dd. I found some info online to learn up on it.
I really can't thank you enough.
Shane Helm
On Jun 22, 2004, at 5:44 PM, Hugh Todd wrote:
Shane, you said,
Sorry. I am so new. I'm not sure what you mean by inheritance for
my elements. Are spans bad?
Your aim should be to create HTML that is clean and independent of
your particular style sheet. I say *aim*, because it's a difficult
goal to reach entirely.
This is where inheritance becomes your friend. By dividing your
pages into boxes with your divs, you are making it easier to target
specific elements without the need to rely on classes and spans.
So, for example, you may have five main boxes on your page. Each of
them is unique, so can be given an id (#). You know this already.
Now you can choose to make any or all of the elements *within* each id
behave either the same or differently from your master elements (if
you have them) - by which I mean any top-level styles you may have
applied to the body, h's, etc.
Thus you may set up your basic font parameters in the body like this:
body
{ background: #fff;
font-family: verdana, arial, sans-serif;
font-size: 76%;
color: #666;
line-height: 1.2em;
}
the p in your #main box like this:
#main p
{ font-size: 1.2em;
margin: 1em 1.5em 0 1.5em;
}
and the p in your right hand div like this:
#contactinfo p
{ font-size: 1em;
margin: 0;
}
(Note, these examples are illustrative only.)
In this way you sidestep the need to apply specific classes to
elements, which lock you in to ongoing maintenance and a reliance on
your particular stylesheet.
Looking at your code I saw that, in the right hand column, you had
applied a class to the contact name. To avoid this, (and because it
makes semantic sense) I suggested that you use a dl instead. The
contact name becomes the dt, and the address details become the dd. In
this way you are able to apply styles as I suggested, without the use
of special classes.
The only place where I could not work out a way to avoid applying a
span was with the qualification after your contact's name. But to do
that, better to put it into your main (external) stylesheet and give
it a semantic name, like .qualification. This tells you what the
style *means* rather than what it does.
All the best! You're going well!
-Hugh Todd
PS A cheap PC with Win 2000 or WinXP on it sounds like a great idea.
Someone has put together a package that installs IE5, 5.5 6 on the
same machine -- an invaluable service. (Only works on the OSs I
mention.)
*
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Re: [WSG] Mac testers please
Thanks Chris. Shane On Jun 22, 2004, at 6:44 PM, ckimedia wrote: http://www.webstandardsawards.com/tests/bigtext.php Twinsparc Tuesday April 6th, 2004 It's easy to forget that a powerful design doesn't have to be chock full o' graphics. Twinsparc lives up to their own credo of Smart Design for Print and Web by taking full advantage of web standards, simplicity and extensive use of white space. Worth noticing: the 800 pixel high center column forces a scrollbar to appear for all pages. This effectively stops the content from jumping horizontally and provides a frames-like experience where only the content appears to be refreshed when viewed in a browser that auto-hides the scrollbars. Smart. If you ever submitted a site to WSA you'd know that our own technique of forcing a vertical scrollbar is slightly more radical. :) Hi, The above is from the WSA, this is where I learned the technique, see the entry for Twinsparc. Reviewed by Johan Edlund :: Comments (6) On Tuesday, June 22, 2004, at 09:48 AM, Shane Helm wrote: Looks great in Safari. Nice clean design. Great work. The site is not centering in IE 5 on the map. You have about 200px of white space between site and right border/shadow. I'm interested to know CKIMEDIA is saying about forcing white space so that the site doesn't jump horizontal when a scrollbar is needed. I hat the jump. What's this mean? How do you fix it? Sonze On Jun 22, 2004, at 8:29 AM, ckimedia wrote: Hi, Works good in safari, you could force white space so the site does not jump horizontal when a scrollbar is needed. On Tuesday, June 22, 2004, at 02:14 AM, t94xr.net.nz webmaster wrote: Hi all, I was wondering if anyone could be so kind as to test my site using IE for Mac 5+ and Safari http://www.v2.shockmedia.com.au Thanks. Damn, forget the rest of the site - put her as the only thing on the page and you'll have everyone still agreeing its a great site. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
