[WSG] RE: WCAG 2.0 compliance and best practise on the Skip to function [SEC=UNOFFICIAL]

2012-06-05 Thread Steve Green
these browsers. I believe that Opera has the native ability to jump to headings, so that would provide a very similar capability, especially if you add hidden headings for the navigation. I don't believe any other browsers have any such features yet. Steve Green Managing Director Test Partners

RE: [WSG] WCAG 2.0 compliance and best practise on the Skip to function [SEC=UNOFFICIAL]

2012-06-05 Thread Steve Green
I do not recommend putting the navigation after the content. In fact I would go as far as to say it's a really bad practice because it violates every user's expectation of where the navigation will be. Using CSS to position it above the content makes things even worse because the tab order no

RE: [WSG] Source order of content / navigation

2012-06-05 Thread Steve Green
2.4.3: Structuring the content so the main content comes first (in structure - but the default presentation may be a different order), and adding links to the blocks of repeated content. On 5 June 2012 22:57, Steve Green steve.gr...@testpartners.co.uk wrote: I do not recommend putting

RE: [WSG] WSG - Time for a re-think on WSG.

2012-03-19 Thread Steve Green
You wouldn't put up with a web page that forced you to read a short message and hit the delete key before seeing the rest of the page. That's exactly what the new European cookie law is going to force you to do. -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org

RE: [WSG] list heading - best practice?

2012-03-07 Thread Steve Green
-Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Oliver Boermans Sent: 07 March 2012 11:20 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] list heading - best practice? On 6 March 2012 09:20, Dan Freeman dan.free...@lexi.com wrote:

RE: [WSG] list heading - best practice?

2012-03-07 Thread Steve Green
@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] list heading - best practice? Come on Steve, tell us why not then? Bob - Original Message - From: Steve Green steve.gr...@testpartners.co.uk To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 12:31 PM Subject: RE: [WSG] list heading - best practice

RE: [WSG] Read Speaker?

2012-02-21 Thread Steve Green
for these services (and they are not cheap) there are much better ways you can spend the money that will benefit more people. Steve Green Managing Director Test Partners Ltd From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of James O'Neill Sent: 21 February 2012 18:34 To: wsg

RE: [WSG] Read Speaker?

2012-02-21 Thread Steve Green
fund a continuous program of remedial work that would benefit all user groups rather than the fairly narrow range of user groups that benefit from ReadSpeaker. Steve Green From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of James O'Neill Sent: 21 February 2012 19

RE: [WSG] Accessibility: form errors at the end

2011-07-18 Thread Steve Green
If you are asking whether there needs to be a link from the error message to the corresponding form control, the answer is no. Steve Green Director Test Partners Ltd From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org on behalf of Sue Sent: Mon 18/07/2011 02:45 To: wsg

RE: [WSG] accessibilty: avoid radio buttons?

2011-07-16 Thread Steve Green
and only one click is necessary instead of two. Steve Green Director Test Partners Ltd From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org on behalf of tee Sent: Sun 17/07/2011 00:14 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] accessibilty: avoid radio buttons? I am building

RE: [WSG] Accessibility Testing

2011-06-24 Thread Steve Green
regarding the use of Vision Australia's tools if you have the skills to use them. Steve Green Managing Director Test Partners Ltd -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Spellacy, Michael Sent: 24 June 2011 17:16 To: wsg

RE: [WSG] Mobile testing methods or emulators

2011-03-26 Thread Steve Green
than you could do the task using a desktop browser. Even typing URLs was taking a couple of minutes (they typically contained 50 characters or so), so we had to use a URL shortening service to speed that up. Good luck and let us know if you find a better service. Steve Green Director Test

RE: [WSG] HTML5 v. HTML 4.x

2011-01-27 Thread Steve Green
.x On Jan 26, 2011, at 1:34 PM, Steve Green wrote: To the best of my knowledge, all screen readers will 'accept' the new tags insofar as they will read the content between the tags. They just won't do anything with the tags themselves. On 1/25/11 12:34 AM, Steve Green

RE: [WSG] HTML5 v. HTML 4.x

2011-01-27 Thread Steve Green
to make an informed decision. Bob - Original Message - From: Steve Green To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 11:56 AM Subject: RE: [WSG] HTML5 v. HTML 4.x In my view it depends on who you are and who is paying for the website development. If you

RE: [WSG] HTML5 v. HTML 4.x

2011-01-27 Thread Steve Green
will not use this new technics now, then it wil be hard for browser vendors, web services and device makers to develop them futher. Of course that's all depend on type of site and conditions of work. 2011/1/27 Steve Green steve.gr...@testpartners.co.uk Both those examples are interesting

RE: [WSG] HTML5 v. HTML 4.x

2011-01-26 Thread Steve Green
, and placing text within the canvas. At one time there was a conflict when combining ARIA landmarks with the new elements. But this is no longer a problem as the screen reader software was fixed. Ted On 1/25/11 12:34 AM, Steve Green steve.gr...@testpartners.co.uk wrote: You can use

RE: [WSG] HTML5 v. HTML 4.x

2011-01-25 Thread Steve Green
You can use it, but will anyone benefit from it? Assistive technologies don't support much, if any, of the new semantics. I don't know if search engines and other users of programmatic access to websites are currently able to make use of HTML5 markup, but I have not seen anything to indicate

RE: [WSG] HTML5 v. HTML 4.x

2011-01-25 Thread Steve Green
On 25 Jan 2011, at 08:34, Steve Green wrote: You can use it, but will anyone benefit from it? Assistive technologies don't support much, if any, of the new semantics. I don't know if search engines and other users of programmatic access to websites are currently able to make use of HTML5 markup, but I

RE: [WSG] HTML5 v. HTML 4.x

2011-01-24 Thread Steve Green
So called 'semantic classnames' are not semantic at all except in the case of microformats. The whole point of semantic markup is that the author and user agree on the terminology and the meaning, and that is not the case with semantic classnames no matter how obvious they may seem to you.

RE: [WSG] Accessible modal windows / lightboxes

2011-01-22 Thread Steve Green
I just tested it in exactly the same operating system and browser, and it works fine. The fact that you are seeing the 'Skip to content' link suggests that the focus is going to the top of the page, not into the lightbox. That happens if JavaScript is turned off, and I can't think of any other

RE: [WSG] Accessible modal windows / lightboxes

2011-01-22 Thread Steve Green
That would do no harm, but I don't think it would be much benefit either. This site is about a year old, and we took the view that ARIA was not sufficiently well supported to be worth using. More importantly, users typically have no idea what it is when they encounter it, so it will be years

RE: [WSG] Accessible modal windows / lightboxes

2011-01-21 Thread Steve Green
AM, Steve Green wrote: Yes, here's one we worked on - http://htmltools.moneymadeclear.org.uk/mortgage-calculator/index.aspx Have you tested it on Firefox? It doesn't seem to allow keyboard support for the modal window. Also, a usability glitch IMHO, the close button should

RE: [WSG] Accessible modal windows / lightboxes

2011-01-20 Thread Steve Green
time the focus is not correctly controlled is when the 'Recommend to a friend' or 'Email results' forms are submitted. In these cases the focus returns to the top of the page. The developers tell us it's because they can't control the focus after an HTTP request. Steve Green Director Test Partners

RE: [WSG] HTML5 - Marking up forms

2010-11-10 Thread Steve Green
I'm with Patrick on this one. The form, fieldset and label elements provide all the semantic structure you need. Anything else is noise. Steve Green Test Partners Ltd -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Eric Taylor

RE: [WSG] Google 'X-ray' banner

2010-11-08 Thread Steve Green
It's just an animated GIF. -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Grant Bailey Sent: 08 November 2010 12:14 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Google 'X-ray' banner Hello, Does anyone know how Google did their

RE: [WSG] Where are we with Frames?

2010-10-26 Thread Steve Green
fixed font sizes, which just introduces a different problem. Steve Green Managing Director Test Partners Ltd -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of tee Sent: 26 October 2010 03:00 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG

RE: [WSG] Accessibility Testing

2010-10-22 Thread Steve Green
mentioned above) tend not to be cooperative. Steve Green Managing Director Test Partners Ltd *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh

RE: [WSG] Image Maps

2010-10-14 Thread Steve Green
than loading a new page. We keep telling them to implement the feature differently but they persist despite all the accessibility problems it causes. Steve Green Test Partners Ltd *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org

RE: [WSG] google chrome frame

2010-01-03 Thread Steve Green
of the world cannot afford to upgrade as fast as we can. Steve Green *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh

RE: [WSG] Complex data tables, accessibility and XHTML Basic 1.1

2009-11-01 Thread Steve Green
-Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Kat Sent: 02 November 2009 01:35 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Complex data tables, accessibility and XHTML Basic 1.1 Steve Green wrote: I am tempted to say

RE: [WSG] skip links

2009-10-28 Thread Steve Green
I always point people to http://blackwidows.co.uk/. The links are accessible to screen readers and are displayed when they have focus so they are accessible to sighted users who use keyboard navigation. _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of

RE: [WSG] skip links

2009-10-28 Thread Steve Green
...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Steve Green Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 12:52 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links I always point people to http://blackwidows.co.uk/. The links are accessible to screen readers and are displayed when they have

RE: [WSG] skip links

2009-10-28 Thread Steve Green
regards Mark _ From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Steve Green Sent: Thursday, 29 October 2009 11:01 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] skip links A 1-pixel image works for screen reader users but it is no use

RE: [WSG] Accessible Image Map Editors

2009-10-25 Thread Steve Green
It may seem strange, but image maps are more accessible to screen reader users than to almost any other user group. They are a significant barrier to some user groups even when correctly coded, so you should provide the information in an alternative, accessible manner. For your class exercise you

RE: [WSG] dl as paragraph?

2009-10-12 Thread Steve Green
Hi everyone. I was just looking at a page on the National Library of Australia web site (http://www.nla.gov.au/services/issnabout.html) and noticed the font rendering was strange in my browser (Firefox 3.5.3). When I looked at the markup to try and understand why, I found that the site seem to be

RE: [WSG] accessibility: government

2009-08-26 Thread Steve Green
It's not that simple. We are working with some UK Government departments that still use WCAG 1.0 and will continue to do so until well into 2010. Other departments have already adopted WCAG 2.0. To answer the question, I do not believe such a list exists, and it would require continuous

RE: [WSG] Accessible Forms

2009-08-19 Thread Steve Green
JAWS behaves this way. Steve Green Director Test Partners Ltd *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***

RE: [WSG] The weirdest IE bug I've ever encountered.

2009-06-03 Thread Steve Green
Actually he won't see a bug free site at all. Correcting the doctype and other issues makes no difference. The bug does not occur in Internet Explorer 6. Something like this has been reported previously but the only references I can find are not directly applicable to this situation.

RE: [WSG] Image Replacement and Accessabilty

2009-04-14 Thread Steve Green
-Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]on Behalf Of Christopher Kennon Sent: 15 April 2009 01:40 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Image Replacement and Accessabilty Hi All, The text indent CSS property can render an h#

RE: [WSG] add to favorites?

2009-03-25 Thread Steve Green
It's not just replicating browser functionality - it's a call to action. As such I think it's perfectly reasonable. Steve -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Lauke Sent: 25 March 2009 13:36 To:

RE: [WSG] add to favorites?

2009-03-25 Thread Steve Green
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Maben Sent: 25 March 2009 15:18 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] add to favorites? On Mar 25, 2009, at 10:10 AM, Steve Green wrote: It's not just replicating browser functionality

RE: [WSG] add to favorites?

2009-03-25 Thread Steve Green
-Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Stuart Foulstone Sent: 25 March 2009 16:19 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] add to favorites? This list is aware of many marketing practices that are against Web

RE: [WSG] a WCAG 2.0 question

2009-03-12 Thread Steve Green
It's not just screen readers that have problems with new windows. Every user group we have tested with has had problems. Screen reader users sometimes do not notice that the screen reader has announced the opening of a new window. Screen magnifier users frequently cannot tell that a new window

RE: [WSG] embedding quicktime .mov cross-platform

2009-01-15 Thread Steve Green
I don't allow QuickTime to be installed on any of our machines either. Is there a reason why you can't use a file format that has a larger installed user base? Most non-Mac users won't have QuickTime. Steve -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org

RE: [WSG] credibility of accessibility validator and evaluator

2008-12-31 Thread Steve Green
Accessibility validators should make it very clear where a checkpoint is required by a standard (in which case they should provide a reference so you can check the precise wording) and where it is 'best practice' (according to who?). In this case the 'failure' is not a non-compliance with any

RE: [WSG] jquery ui.slider keyboard navigation question

2008-12-12 Thread Steve Green
It is understood that some tasks will require two keys, such as Alt + down arrow to open a combobox. I presume you are testing on a Mac because I see slightly different behaviour than you describe in Windows browsers. In both Internet Explorer 6 and Firefox 2.0 the arrow keys alone are sufficient

[WSG] jQuery problems

2008-11-28 Thread Steve Green
I would be grateful if any JavaScript (specifically jQuery) experts could contact me off-list as I have a client who needs some remedial work done (for which they will pay). Also are there any more suitable places I could post this request? Steve

RE: [WSG] the Name attribute

2008-11-28 Thread Steve Green
Stuart's point is that blinking content violates checkpoint 7.2 of the W3C Web Content Accessibility Guidelines: Until user agents allow users to control blinking, avoid causing content to blink (i.e., change presentation at a regular rate, such as turning on and off) Steve -Original

RE: [WSG] Text-only version

2008-11-20 Thread Steve Green
Betsie does a lot more than just display the page without styles. It was designed to improve the accessibility of the crappy websites that were the norm a decade ago, and it is less useful on a website that is coded properly but it still has some value. The technical spec is at

RE: [WSG] Text-only version

2008-11-20 Thread Steve Green
] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke Sent: 20 November 2008 20:54 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Text-only version Steve Green wrote: You can do a lot of what Betsie does using CSS but the one thing you can't do is replace the images with their 'alt' attributes

RE: [WSG] Text-only version

2008-11-20 Thread Steve Green
November 2008 21:07 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Text-only version On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 3:40 PM, Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You can do a lot of what Betsie does using CSS but the one thing you can't do is replace the images with their 'alt' attributes. Does

RE: [WSG] Text-only version

2008-11-20 Thread Steve Green
- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Dorward Sent: 20 November 2008 21:06 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Text-only version Steve Green wrote: You can do a lot of what Betsie does using CSS but the one thing you can't do is replace the images

RE: [WSG] Text-only version

2008-11-20 Thread Steve Green
November 2008 21:33 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Text-only version On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 3:40 PM, Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You can do a lot of what Betsie does using CSS but the one thing you can't do is replace the images with their 'alt' attributes. Does

RE: [WSG] Big Browsing Issues on clients PC Laptop AOL

2008-10-18 Thread Steve Green
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Pennell Sent: 18 October 2008 20:22 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Big Browsing Issues on clients PC Laptop AOL On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 7:19 PM, Kristine Cummins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just

RE: [WSG] Fieldsets Legends

2008-10-03 Thread Steve Green
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 03 October 2008 10:03 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Fieldsets Legends Hi, I'm trying to educate developers to add fieldsets and legends to their code when building applications. Jaws 5.0

RE: [WSG] WCAG2 in general

2008-09-29 Thread Steve Green
Further to the discussion regarding WCAG 2.0 in government, I am interested in the reasons why organisations are or are not choosing to adopt WCAG 2.0. Would anyone care to share their thoughts? Are you adopting it just because it's new and presumably better? Or have you reviewed it thoroughly and

RE: [WSG] Looking to source a JAWS version

2008-09-24 Thread Steve Green
a mental model of web pages and the strategies they use for navigating within them. Without that knowledge there is little value in doing the testing yourself. Steve Green Director Labscape Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.labscape.co.uk

RE: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon???

2008-09-04 Thread Steve Green
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Martin Sent: 04 September 2008 23:33 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon??? Hey guys... it is great that talk about accessibility and chrome has been raised - but I do

RE: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon???

2008-09-03 Thread Steve Green
Yes, this is the case. There has been a lot of talk about this in GAWDS, and Steve Faulkner has written about it at http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/?p=92. Basically it looks like there's no MSAA support. If they don't address this, many large organisations (at least in the UK) will not use it.

RE: [WSG] Shopping cart - who does what

2008-08-15 Thread Steve Green
Thanks Steve for the clarification. OK, in the risk of showing more ignorant, I still have question. My understanding on WCAG guidelines, are the fundamental principle of DDA, Section 508 and similar law in other countries correct? When a website is to be DDA or Section 508 compliant, for lack

RE: [WSG] Shopping cart - who does what

2008-08-14 Thread Steve Green
On Aug 14, 2008, at 3:09 AM, Krystian - Sunlust wrote: It costs £300 man, I would prefer to get an open source solution, community paid support. Try getting support from Magento, likely £300 is comparably very inexpensive, considering that commercial software ought to give you support on

RE: [WSG] Shopping cart - who does what

2008-08-14 Thread Steve Green
I thought that UK DDA is based on the WCAG AA guideline no? One time I did a template coding for a UK company, and was asked to follow WCAG AA guideline. As for Section 508, my impression is that, despite the additional requirements, it doesn't even quite meet the WCAG A. In the early years of

RE: [WSG] Reverting to older version of flash for testing purposes.

2008-07-08 Thread Steve Green
You can get an uninstaller from the Adobe website - http://www.adobe.com/support/flashplayer/downloads.html#uninstaller You can get every old Flash version at http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=tn_14266

RE: [WSG] ADA Compliant Flash

2008-07-07 Thread Steve Green
/ consultant. This is a mid-level to senior position based on London and I am offering a substantial finders fee for anyone who can introduce a candidate that we recruit. Full details are available on request. Steve Green Labscape www.labscape.co.uk -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED

RE: [WSG] ADA Compliant Flash

2008-07-07 Thread Steve Green
Thanks for the clarification Dennis. If it turns out that ADA does cover websites, what would be the test for compliance? Or is it likely to be similar to the DDA in the UK, which is concerned with actual outcomes rather than a technical standard? Under the DDA it doesn't matter if a website is

RE: [WSG] Browsers and Zooming

2008-07-03 Thread Steve Green
I have never encountered a friend, family member or other civilian who has a problem scrolling in either direction if necessary. A horizontal scrollbar does not prevent users from accessing content but it reduces the efficiency with which they can do so. Not only does zooming introduce the

RE: [WSG] Browsers and Zooming

2008-07-03 Thread Steve Green
Well here's a guy who has done a bit of usability testing. To quote from the article: We know from user testing that users hate horizontal scrolling and always comment negatively when they encounter it. http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20050711.html Of course he could be entirely wrong but I don't

RE: [WSG] Firefox 3 candidate

2008-06-23 Thread Steve Green
You can still get some old versions from the Mozilla FTP site at http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/ It's ludicrous that they have removed some old versions - can they really not afford the disk space? Obviously users should not be installing old versions but developers

RE: [WSG] The Problem of adjacent links

2008-05-09 Thread Steve Green
The rationale for this checkpoint seems to have been long forgotten, and I don't know of any user agent that has a problem with adjacent links. Nor does anyone else it seems, which is why the WCAG Samurai recommended that the checkpoint should be ignored. It certainly isn't a problem for any

RE: [WSG] accessibility and brower compatibility for Kiosk mode?

2008-04-17 Thread Steve Green
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 17 April 2008 15:36 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] accessibility and brower compatibility for Kiosk mode? Please help me with another question, with multiple

RE: [WSG] Rogue text appears in IE6.

2008-04-03 Thread Steve Green
It's the well known IE6 duplicate text bug. http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/dup-characters.html _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rob Enslin Sent: 03 April 2008 10:51 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Rogue text appears in IE6.

RE: [WSG] nest heading properly

2008-03-28 Thread Steve Green
During user testing I have not seen this cause any problems, particularly when only one level is skipped. It is certainly odd when you jump from an h1 or h2 to an h5 or h6, but users generally take even extreme cases like this in their stride (yes, we do come across sites like this!). In general,

RE: [WSG] Web Browser Testing and the Practicality of Testing other OSs

2008-02-26 Thread Steve Green
This kind of testing is our core business, and I have to say that these days there is very little difference when running a particular browser version on different Windows versions. One difference that comes to mind is that Windows 2000 has native 56-bit encryption, and this is not increased

RE: [WSG] PDF Accessibility

2008-02-22 Thread Steve Green
PDFs can be more accessible than was previously possible but there are lots of gotchas, and it's way too big a topic to cover in this reply. Note that by default, PDFs are not tagged, so they are only marginally more accessible than before. Maximum accessibility is obtained by tagging them, but

RE: [WSG] an accessible question: server-side vs client-side validation

2008-02-11 Thread Steve Green
In my experience client-side validation works fine with screen readers but you need to be careful how you present any error messages. It is increasingly common to see them slid in silently, and this is a big problem not only for screen reader users but also for magnifier users because they are

RE: [WSG] Styling forms

2008-02-05 Thread Steve Green
There may be specific cases where it would be right to mark up a form as a list, although I can't think of one. As a general rule it would be wrong. The argument against marking up a form as a list is that a form is not a list. A form is one or more groups of form controls, and the fieldset

RE: [WSG] long description and its implementation

2008-02-04 Thread Steve Green
. Do they usually have Flash installed? I thought that screen readers would default to whatever is suppose to be replaced with the Flash when using SWFObject. Maybe it defaults because the Flash isn't enabled... Though, I guess that could be wrong as well. Steve Green wrote: Such as? JAWS (which

RE: [WSG] long description and its implementation

2008-02-04 Thread Steve Green
Subject: RE: [WSG] long description and its implementation Quoting Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Screen readers do not read Flash content that is embedded using unobtrusive techniques such as SWFObject. I expect they would read the content that is supposed to be replaced, but I have never

RE: [WSG] long description and its implementation

2008-02-04 Thread Steve Green
: RE: [WSG] long description and its implementation Quoting Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Screen readers do not read Flash content that is embedded using unobtrusive techniques such as SWFObject. I expect they would read the content that is supposed to be replaced, but I have never encountered

RE: [WSG] long description and its implementation

2008-02-04 Thread Steve Green
:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Green Sent: 04 February 2008 14:23 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] long description and its implementation I checked www.salford.ac.uk with JAWS 7.10 and 9.0, and neither of them see either the linked image or the Flash content. Steve

RE: [WSG] long description and its implementation

2008-02-03 Thread Steve Green
Such as? JAWS (which has something like 50% market share) has a high level of JavaScript support and I believe that the other professional screen readers (WindowEyes and HAL/SuperNova) also do. Free and cheap screen readers generally don't have JavaScript support. In our experience screen reader

RE: [WSG] Test Plans

2008-01-15 Thread Steve Green
resources that may be useful so I'll contact you off-list. Steve Green www.labscape.co.uk _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Jeffery Sent: 15 January 2008 12:09 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Test Plans Hi All. Im not familiar with test

RE: [WSG] Test Plans

2008-01-15 Thread Steve Green
online. I think this is a very important part of web standards. QA should not be an afterthought but an integral part of the process. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Steve Green wrote: When you talk about 'standard' or 'government' test

RE: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-11 Thread Steve Green
I have a big problem with the term 'best practice', especially when it is used to effectively terminate a discussion. It implies that not only is there currently no better solution, but that there never will be. I believe that the most appropriate solution invariably depends on the context, and

RE: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-11 Thread Steve Green
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] semantic list with explanations On Behalf Of Steve Green I have a big problem with the term 'best practice', especially when it is used to effectively terminate a discussion. It implies that not only is there currently no better solution

RE: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-09 Thread Steve Green
The desire for semantic purity is only one of many factors when deciding how to mark up a page. Other factors include (but are not limited to) UA support, the user experience, the time available to implement the design and the expected life of the website. I would expect a professional designer to

RE: [WSG] standards-compliant designers

2008-01-09 Thread Steve Green
Of course I made up that 1% figure but I don't suppose it's far out. Just look at the phenomenal number of crap websites out there. There are something like 100,000 people offering web design services in the UK (10,000 in London alone) yet GAWDS membership (which is global) is only around 500 and

RE: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-08 Thread Steve Green
I think that definition lists would be appropriate semantically but in the real world I don't know of any user agent that does anything useful with a definition list or any user group that derives any benefit from them. Certainly they make no sense when read with a screen reader because you cannot

RE: [WSG] semantic list with explanations

2008-01-08 Thread Steve Green
visual browsers a better experience. If we cheat with the markup to please user agents what's the incentive for SR manufacturers to take care of the problem? -- Regards, Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Green

RE: [WSG] jaws (ot?)

2007-12-12 Thread Steve Green
Read the license terms - they are very clear. You can only use the demo version to help you assess whether you are going to purchase the full version. Nothing else. You explicitly cannot use the demo version for testing your websites. Once you have decided that you are not going to purchase

RE: [WSG] Article: Vocalize Firefox (text-to-speech extensions for Firefox)

2007-12-05 Thread Steve Green
A year ago I started to evaluate FireVox 2.6 and had a dialog with Charles Chen, its creator. At that time there is no way I would describe it as full-fledged screen reader as it had many shortcomings. I got the impression it was really just a hobby project, and Charles said he had pretty much

RE: [WSG] Article: Vocalize Firefox (text-to-speech extensions for Firefox)

2007-12-05 Thread Steve Green
A year ago I started to evaluate FireVox 2.6 and had a dialog with Charles Chen, its creator. At that time there is no way I would describe it as full-fledged screen reader as it had many shortcomings. I got the impression it was really just a hobby project, and Charles said he had pretty much

RE: [WSG] Accessible likert scale (disagree/agree/strongly agree/etc) forms

2007-12-03 Thread Steve Green
I don't recommend that solution. We have tested this kind of form with a highly proficient screen reader user, and he could not understand it at all. In fact it was one of the few tasks he has ever failed to complete. This is one of those cases where marking up content so it is semantically

RE: [WSG] Accessible likert scale (disagree/agree/strongly agree/etc) forms

2007-12-03 Thread Steve Green
The problem with the code below is that the content of the legend will be read before every label. That makes it very difficult for a screen reader user to read it fast. I would just have the question in a p or possibly even a header element. Once the user has read through a few questions and

RE: [WSG] Accessible likert scale (disagree/agree/strongly agree/etc) forms

2007-12-03 Thread Steve Green
Undoubtedly it's the cleanest way to achieve the required functionality, and there are fewer accessibility issues. However, it is less easy for a user to quickly review their answers because they have to read the text rather than just look at the physical position of the selected radio button.

RE: [WSG] Accessible likert scale (disagree/agree/strongly agree/etc) forms

2007-12-03 Thread Steve Green
Steve Green wrote: The problem with the code below is that the content of the legend will be read before every label. That makes it very difficult for a screen reader user to read it fast. I would just have the question in a p or possibly even a header element. However, if the user is in JAWS

RE: [WSG] Iframe navigation accessibility question

2007-11-21 Thread Steve Green
The accessibility issues relating to frames are often overstated, although they can cause difficulties with user agents that only support one window, such as Lynx. You can usually still use the site but it is not as convenient because you have to keep going back to the list of frames in order to

RE: [WSG] SIte Maps?

2007-11-21 Thread Steve Green
Not at all. You know that the site only has 15 pages but your visitors don't. The sitemap gives the visitor an immediate indication of the size of the site, so why deny them that? It can be a big help in determining their strategy for browsing the site. Steve -Original Message- From:

RE: [WSG] AccessResearch // Page Check

2007-11-18 Thread Steve Green
People with assistive technologies rarely benefit from 'title' attributes. They are not displayed by text browsers, they are not accessible using keyboard navigation (or devices that emulate keyboards) and they are not read by screen readers with default settings. They are only accessible to

RE: [WSG] AccessResearch // Page Check

2007-11-18 Thread Steve Green
the screen there are alternative methods for making link text bigger, there is no alternative method for a user to make sense of link text. James On Nov 18, 2007 5:44 PM, Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: People with assistive technologies rarely benefit from 'title' attributes

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