Re: [WSG] Background music on web pages

2010-02-28 Thread William Donovan
Annother option is highlighting the numbers to highlight the distraction it
places on what the clients are wanting the users to do in the first place.
(i.e. photography web site - lk at pictures, the gallery, album services and
make an order)

Instead of having 100% of the audience see the advert for new products, news
or the phone number (order form) to call; a large portion are too busy
trying to find the STOP button or leave the page reducing the web sites
productivity and potential buying audience.

I'd even think this may cut into the 50% range of the audience leaving those
nt distracted and with music turned off.

It can also make for slow download older browser issues. Do check what
existing web users are using and doing as well.

William Donovan - (from his Google android phone)

On 01/03/2010 7:38 AM, William Parry williampa...@gmail.com wrote:

You could say that you're legally only allowed to play the first 30
seconds Like iTunes otherwise there will be big licensing fees.
This is a damage-control situation as the attention span of someone on
a page with midi blaring at them will be  2 secs.

Alternatively you could say What if the user has their speakers off
or muted? A button to turn on the sound will let them know they can
listen. If they say Well their loss you can ask why they are doing
it in the first place.

Try phrasing your arguments so that they can do something else
rather than they can't do what they're doing.


On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 1:25 AM, Lesley Lutomski ubu...@webaflame.co.uk
wrote:
 Thanks to all who...


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[WSG]

2009-06-21 Thread William Donovan
William Donovan - (from his Google android phone)


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[WSG]

2009-06-20 Thread William Donovan
William Donovan - (from his Google android phone)


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Re: [WSG] Melbourne meetings

2009-04-01 Thread William Donovan
Strange that you saw only that one.

We definitely still have them bi-monthly at Loop bar just off Bourke Street,
the last one was in Feb with Kevin Yank.

There is another in April and more to come.

thanks for the heads up and keeping an eye out for them.




William Donovan
mobile: 0403 263 284


2009/4/2 Cameron McCormack c...@mcc.id.au

 Hi, I’m new here.  I see on
 http://webstandardsgroup.org/meetings/melbourne.cfm that the last
 Melbourne WSG meeting was in November 2008.  Is that accurate?  Are
 Melbourne WSG meetings not being held at the moment?

 Thanks,

 Cameron

 --
 Cameron McCormack ≝ http://mcc.id.au/


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Re: [WSG] Melbourne meetings

2009-04-01 Thread William Donovan
yep.
If you subscribe to the Melbourne announcement list, you should receive the
updates.


William Donovan
mobile: 0403 263 284


2009/4/2 Cameron McCormack c...@mcc.id.au

 William Donovan:
  Strange that you saw only that one.
 
  We definitely still have them bi-monthly at Loop bar just off Bourke
 Street,
  the last one was in Feb with Kevin Yank.

 OK.

  There is another in April and more to come.

 Cool.  Announcements of those are sent to the announcement mailing list
 that I was subscribed to, I guess?

 --
 Cameron McCormack ≝ http://mcc.id.au/


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Re: [WSG] Chrome now higher traffic than IE

2009-03-03 Thread William Donovan
You don't by any chance use chrome yourself while you're developing?
I noticed that I mainly use Firefox and I had to stop going back to the
 site after it was built to allow the data / statistics to clean themselves
of my bias.



William Donovan
mobile: 0403 263 284


2009/3/3 Mike Kear w...@afpwebworks.com

 In my case,  the sample is fairly small, and I never suggested it was
 representative of the internet as a whole.  The bigger of the two sites
 I've
 used is a radio station.  It has 54,000 user sessions in that set of stats.

 All I was saying is it's the first time I've seen IE as not the top
 browser.
 (one swallow does not a summer make!)

 It's clear from this discussion that the numbers are all over the place.
 There are people at the radio station who try to tell me that the world is
 going mac and we ought to be replacing our network to macs.   I say these
 stats don't support that, at least in our case, and whether or not we
 should
 replace our network to macs needs to be for a reason other than 'that's
 what
 everyone else is using'!  (which was never a good reason in the first
 place!)

 There were those who were saying not all that long ago that IE was a
 gonner,
 and we'd all best pay attention to Opera.   Then along came Firefox,   now
 I'd suggest it's anyone's race and the main contenders are IE, Firefox,
 Chrome  and all the others together add up to a long way behind.

 The significance for us as web developers is that all this competition is
 tending towards standardisation.   If things had been different, it could
 easily have gone along the lines of our browser is better because it has
 all these proprietary commands it understands.   Remember how it was in
 the
 days when Netscape and IE were the only ones on the block? They would
 each try to outdo each other with new features they were developing and the
 whole idea of standardisation was a pipe dream.   We had to develop a IE
 version and a Netscape version of our sites.   Now, the browsers are
 righting with each other to be more standard than the others.

 THAT makes life  a LOT easier for us! As long as no one has any
 overpowering
 majority, they all have to pay attention to each other.


 Cheers
 Mike Kear
 Windsor, NSW, Australia
 0422 985 585
 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer
 AFP Webworks Pty Ltd
 http://afpwebworks.com
 Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month



 -Original Message-
 From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
 Behalf Of Al Sparber
 Sent: Tuesday, 3 March 2009 4:23 PM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Chrome now higher traffic than IE

 From: Nick Cowie cowie.n...@gmail.com

  OK here are some other interesting stats from another major library
  site, IE7 rules and Chrome is  0.5%
 
  Browser  Website IE7/IE6
  Internet Explorer 86.88% (80/20)
  Firefox 9.29%
  Safari   2.17%
  Chrome0.47%
  Opera   0.27%

 Fascinating.

 Can you provide some demographic context to this library site?

 --
 Al Sparber - PVII
 http://www.projectseven.com
 Dreamweaver Menus | Galleries | Widgets
 http://www.projectseven.com/go/pop
 The Ultimate DW Menu System





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Re: [WSG] Chrome now higher traffic than IE

2009-03-03 Thread William Donovan
I use a couple of sources but here are my best 2:
This one uses 6 different sources to build it's list
http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/stat.htm

And W3C Schools:
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

Lets not forget thought that Mike is sampling his site. Like the W3C Schools
site, they receive a particular type of user, as would other sites.



William Donovan
mobile: 0403 263 284


2009/3/3 Foskett, Mike mike.fosk...@uk.tesco.com

  Tesco’s (a major UK online retailer) stats concur with Matt’s results
 within 1%.



 mike



 *From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On
 Behalf Of *Matthew Pennell
 *Sent:* 03 March 2009 11:52
 *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 *Subject:* Re: [WSG] Chrome now higher traffic than IE



 On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Mike Kear w...@afpwebworks.com wrote:

 In my case,  the sample is fairly small, and I never suggested it was
 representative of the internet as a whole.  The bigger of the two sites
 I've
 used is a radio station.  It has 54,000 user sessions in that set of stats.


 More stats (30m visits over a month, demographic of pretty much everyone):

 IE7 - 52%
 IE6 - 23%
 FF3 - 17%
 Safari - 3%
 FF2 - 2.5%
 Chrome - 0.8%
 Opera - 0.5%

 - Matthew

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 --
 This is a confidential email. Tesco may monitor and record all emails. The
 views expressed in this email are those of the sender and not Tesco.

 Tesco Stores Limited
 Company Number: 519500
 Registered in England
 Registered Office: Tesco House, Delamare Road, Cheshunt, Hertfordshire EN8
 9SL
 VAT Registration Number: GB 220 4302 31

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Re: [WSG] Issue with breadcrumbs and FX

2009-02-18 Thread William Donovan
why not have the background on the breadcrumb div instead of a span that has
an absolute position and a width of 10 and multiple layers of background
images.


William Donovan
mobile: 0403 263 284


2009/2/19 Lynette Smith smithlyne...@bigpond.com

  Good morning

 Have just started a site and run into a strange problem  - strange because
 IE  is rendering the page as it should be and other browsers are not.

 http://www.westernwebdesign.com.au/wsgtest/wsuits.html

 The breadcrumb bar should  sit at the bottom of  the #main content - in FX,
 Opera and Safari it seems to be broken in two - half sits on top of the
 #main content which is a collection of thumbnails  and half sits
 underneath.  On similar pages where I have not added thumbnails it sits
 where it should.  It would seem it is   #ul.img that is causing the problem
 though I can't work out why particularly as IE is OK with it.

 Thanks

 Lyn

 www.westernwebdesign.com.au
 Affordable Web Design  Perth

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Re: [WSG] Issue with breadcrumbs and FX

2009-02-18 Thread William Donovan
I just found this:

If you remove the float it all works fine

ul#img {tb.css (line 232)
*float:left;*
font-size:0.76em;
list-style-image:none;
list-style-position:outside;
list-style-type:none;
margin:0;
padding:0;
width:99%;
}

I use the Firebug plugin for Firefrox (FF) - it is a must have for web
developers finding bugs



William Donovan
mobile: 0403 263 284


2009/2/19 William Donovan donovan.will...@gmail.com

 why not have the background on the breadcrumb div instead of a span that
 has an absolute position and a width of 10 and multiple layers of background
 images.


 William Donovan
 mobile: 0403 263 284


 2009/2/19 Lynette Smith smithlyne...@bigpond.com

  Good morning

 Have just started a site and run into a strange problem  - strange because
 IE  is rendering the page as it should be and other browsers are not.

 http://www.westernwebdesign.com.au/wsgtest/wsuits.html

 The breadcrumb bar should  sit at the bottom of  the #main content - in
 FX, Opera and Safari it seems to be broken in two - half sits on top of the
 #main content which is a collection of thumbnails  and half sits
 underneath.  On similar pages where I have not added thumbnails it sits
 where it should.  It would seem it is   #ul.img that is causing the problem
 though I can't work out why particularly as IE is OK with it.

 Thanks

 Lyn

 www.westernwebdesign.com.au
 Affordable Web Design  Perth

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Re: [WSG] Failed A Job :(

2009-01-29 Thread William Donovan
Good point Dennis, plug away.

It's all part of the challenge and there needss to be people leading the
path for others to follow.

Well done for atleast trying for them James.

William Donovan
mobile: 0403 263 284


2009/1/29 Eyemax Studios i...@eyemaxstudios.net

 Unfortunate, you as a developer, and the rest of world to have to view it,
 and for those original developers as they won't be able to learn from your
 wisdom.

 I've had similar cases myself, and refused to put my name to those projects
 for the same reasons.

 It's just the way things are unfortunately, but remember this same thing
 happens in all industry's, so don't go putting the blame on yourself, keep
 your head up and don't let it get you down.

 I've had potential client's come to me wanting me to do their site,, and
 after going through outlining why things are done the way they are, and a
 price is given them for what they want in their site, they end up going to
 the $100 guys, and end up coming back wanting me to help them. In every case
 I've told them, they only way to fix this problem and get your site working
 in a way they want is to scratch what they have unfortunately already paid
 for, and charge them the original price. In some cases I've repriced them
 more, for having to muck around with something someone else done.

 Keep plugging away at the industry, it's hard not to take on work at times,
 especially when rent needs paying, and food need to be in our belly's.

 Dennis, Eyemax Studios - Studo Junkyard


 James Jeffery wrote:

 Big company, worldwide infact. A great one for the resume but I failed it.

 I was brought in at the end of the project to fix some bugs. Let me just
 say that from viewing the source it was majorly flawed! I spent 6 hours on
 it before handing in the towel right near their deadline. The CSS was
 unstructured, way to much repetition which was the cause of some bugs and
 errors.

 The only way out of that was to rewrite the whole lot. I mean the guys who
 were on this project were creating empty spans with classes to push elements
 along a page (like spacers). They had an empty h1 with a span inside it
 for the logo they placed in using CSS ... that was only a part of the issue.

 I don't question my knowledge. It's up to par and I have completed a
 number of jobs, but on this occasion I sucked ... or they sucked ... or
 both. This website will be released to the world, and millions will use it,
 but its awfully constructed, not semantic at all and its another case of a
 poor website on the web.

 Ah well. Lesson learn't. Never jump into a project at the last minute to
 be relied upon for a couple of pennies.

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Re: [WSG] Failed A Job :(

2009-01-29 Thread William Donovan
Hang on,
did I miss something or is this completely OT (off topic).

Bible's, Gutenberg, print type faces...

Web Standards...?

William Donovan
mobile: 0403 263 284


2009/1/30 Simon Pascal Klein kle...@klepas.org


 On 30/01/2009, at 4:16 AM, Fred Ballard wrote:

  I've read that the Gutenberg bible is formatted without spaces. It's
 interesting that they aren't essential to reading.


 I believe this is due to the inherent markings of the tops and bottoms of
 the glyphs, particularly the lowercase glyphs. B42s were all set with a very
 Germanic textura blackletter which feature strong diamond-shaped markings
 that allowed the eye to follow the line of these markings. Further, back
 then with the cost of paper and vellum it was entirely uneconomical and even
 more expensive to print (or write) with what we today consider an ample
 leading (line-height). In addition Gutenberg let his hyphens lie in the
 margins (what we know as hanging punctuation) further adding to the blocky,
 well-defined lines.

 In fact, the reason why serif typefaces are easier to read (at least when
 printed—it is true that at small sizes on screen and with poor hinting serif
 typefaces quickly become more difficult to read); it is the serifs or
 'little feet' on glyphs that allow our eye to dance in saccades along a line
 by telling us where that glyph starts and ends in the vertical space. Add
 all the characters up, particularly the lowercase ones, and the eye will
 follow all the serifs forming a concise line.


  I've also read that it's all uniformly blocked out with so many characters
 to a line, so many lines to a column, two columns to a page, and ending with
 a full page. In a sense, one of first books (it isn't actually the first)
 ever printed was the most perfectly formatted ever.


 Indeed. Gutenberg's first bible (actually a Gutenberg Bible consists of two
 volumes, each 1280-odd pages: Old Testament, and part of the New Testament
 with the second continuing where the first let off—they were divided again
 because of economical reasons), and the rest of the series that followed
 (180 in total I believe), were divided into two columns, spanning mostly 42
 lines.


 Kind regards.

 —Pascal

  On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Simon Pascal Klein kle...@klepas.org
 wrote:

 On 30/01/2009, at 2:15 AM, kie...@humdingerdesigns.co.uk 
 kie...@humdingerdesigns.co.uk wrote:

 Join the club, I've been commissioned to do a local website and the guy
 was hoping he'd be able to get a quick bug-fix on his current with a bit of
 updating.

 Unfortuanetly the css was akin to the Guttenberg Bible; completely
 unreadable and would have been a pig to translate. Not to mention, a strange
 and chaotic mishmash of tables, frames and weird proprietary software
 markup. Some clients (and this one did, thank god) need to realize that when
 the original is written by a back street bedroom I can do that wannabe,
 they're paying for someone who can stick a few words and pics up and not
 much else.

 Wel, I for one, relish at the idea of getting my hands on a Gutenburg
 Bible and reading it… well analysing the lettering and type rather, but hey.
 :-)


 From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
 Behalf Of James Jeffery
 Sent: 29 January 2009 14:13
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Failed A Job :(

 [...]

 ---
 Simon Pascal Klein
 Graphic  Web Designer

 Web: http://klepas.org
 E-mai: kle...@klepas.org
 Twitter: @klepas; http://twitter.com/klepas


 Kaffee und Kuchen.



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 ---
 Simon Pascal Klein
 Graphic  Web Designer

 Web: http://klepas.org
 E-mai: kle...@klepas.org
 Twitter: @klepas; http://twitter.com/klepas


 Kaffee und Kuchen.



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Re: [WSG] headings to divide sections

2008-11-30 Thread William Donovan
Hi know that vision australia do like the implementation of a text position
to be -px and have a :focus added to bring it into view.

If I find the site they recommended as a good implementation of this I'll
pass it onto the list.

William Donovan






2008/12/1 Ben Lau [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Hi all,

 I know it's a good idea to have skipping links at the top of your HTML
 ('main content' section, 'main navigation' section), but does it help to
 have a heading to those sections as well?

 So for example:
 a href=#mainNavFirst level navigation/a

 div id=mainNav
 h2First level navigation/h2
 ul
 ...
 /ul
 /div

 CSS:
 #mainNav h2 { position:absolute; left:-em; top:-em }

 I didn't use display:none because screen readers would ignore it, hence I'm
 using absolute positioning. Is this a good idea, or would it add more noise?

 Thanks
 Ben

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Re: RE: [WSG] Learning JavaScript properly

2008-09-18 Thread William Donovan

I can vouch for Simply JavaScript by Sitepoint as well. I used it in 
combination with some of their other javascript books.

William


 Design [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 I can personally vouch for Simply JavaScript by Sitepoint. Very good 
 book
 for the beginner level.
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 On
 Behalf Of Keryx Web
 Sent: Friday, 19 September 2008 8:52 AM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Learning Javascript properly
 
 Simon skrev:
  Hi all,
  
  I really want to get stuck in and learn Javascript properly,
 
 Learn the basics first - then libraries:
 http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200701/learn_javascript_before_tast
 ing
 _the_library_koolaid/
 
 Mozilla Developer Central is a nice resource.
 
 All Sitepoint books are great as well. PPK's books i also very good.
 
 
 Lars Gunther
 
 
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 __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
 signature
 database 3451 (20080918) __
 
 The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
 
 http://www.eset.com
 
 
 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
 Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1670 - Release Date: 
 17/09/2008
 5:07 PM
  
 
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Re: [WSG] Z-index

2008-09-04 Thread William Donovan


you may need to put some more positioning on the header and some leading room 
above the folio to account for the gap required for FF and IE7 and possibly 
others. 

I'd ask the question on the relevance of maintaining the header as it is so 
large and will take up a lot of screen real estate and some of the folio items 
are large.

I'm assuming the aim is to highlight the fulle experience of these.

From memory position:fixed is not supported in IE6.

William




 Laert Jansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Hello everyone!
 
 I got a problem here. I´m trying to get the header of my website fixed 
 at
 the top on a z-index but it´s not working. My  website 
 iswww.laertjansen.com
 http://www.laertjansen.com%20
 I just want to fix the info at the top but what happens can be seen
 herehttp://www.laertjansen.com/test/
 .
 
 The Header´s css is:
 
 #header {
 margin:auto;
 width:894px;
 margin-bottom:26px;
 position:fixed;
 z-index:100;
 
 Does anyone have any idea of what´s my mistake? Thanks a lot in advance.
 
 
 -- 
 Laert Jansen
 www.laertjansen.com
 
 
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Re: [WSG] Web Application Accessibility

2008-08-19 Thread William Donovan


Is this spam?

 Andy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Hi, I am conducting a study into the accessibility of Internet
 application frameworks for a thesis in computer science and I would be
 grateful if you would take the time to complete the following test,
 its very short and would help a lot with this piece of research, I
 will post a link to a summarized version when I have completed the
 research.
 
 http://www.krumphau.com/disapps/index.php
 
 Regards
 
 Andy
 
 
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Re: RE: [WSG] Web Application Accessibility

2008-08-19 Thread William Donovan


Chris,

I got it twice as well. Hence the spam question.

I doubt it is in the system twice.
do you generally get new posts twice?

William
Melbourne CORE

 Ash, Chris \(SYD-MWG\) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 I just got the below email twice. Do i have two instances of my email in
 your database ?
 
  
 
 If yes can u pls amend
 
  
 
 Regards.
 
  
 
 Chris Ash | Interactive Developer
 
 McCann Worldgroup Sydney | 166 William Street, Woolloomooloo, NSW 2011,
 Australia
 T: +61 (0)2 9994 4280 | M: +61 (0)414 772 551 | E:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
 
 P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this
 e-mail
 
  
 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On Behalf Of Andy Taylor
 Sent: Wednesday, 20 August 2008 11:27 AM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: [WSG] Web Application Accessibility
 
  
 
 Hi, I am conducting a study into the accessibility of Internet 
 application frameworks for a thesis in computer science and I would be 
 grateful if you would take the time to complete the following test, 
 its very short and would help a lot with this piece of research, I 
 will post a link to a summarized version when I have completed the 
 research. 
 
 http://www.krumphau.com/disapps/index.php 
 
 Regards 
 
 Andy 
 
 
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 This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by MCI's Internet Managed 
 Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information 
 visit http://www.mci.com 
 This message contains information which may be confidential and 
 privileged. Unless you 
 are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive this message for 
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Re: Re: [WSG] Lawsuits for inaccessible websites

2008-08-17 Thread William Donovan

Thats correct Andrew,

I had to investigate this for a redesign of a federal government web site.

Government departments and agencies in Australia are at the mercy of the law, 
but as Andrew stated the level of compliance is measured against a persons 
assessment of the level of discrimination they feel is being placed on them.

The examples that I know of have been assessed to the level where the person 
making the complaint is deemed being discriminated against. If this person in 
not satisfied with the solution made by the organisation they can continue to 
push the case forward till the issue is resolved and during this period the 
organisation is fined along the way.

However for commercial organisations, if they are not providing a service where 
they are the sole provider and access point, the lines get fuzzy on what is and 
is not disciminatory.

William


 Andrew Boyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 12:18 AM, tee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Thanks for the info, Elizabeth.
 
  Aussie members in this list  must be very proud of this law :-) Let's 
 just
  hope no gold-digger lawyer sees an opportunity there!
 
  Is the requirement for this law higher per WCAG guidelines (A, AA, or 
 AAA)?
  For example, Section 508 is really low standard in my opinion.
 
  tee
 
 
 Tee,
 
 the Disability Discrimination Act (here in Oz) does not actually specify 
 the
 level of compliance according to WCAG. HREOC and AGIMO (google these) 
 make
 some interpretations of the Act that are again interpreted by individual
 government bodies - I think it is fair to say that accessibility 
 standards
 in Australia aren't (standard).
 
 Cheers, Andrew
 
 -- 
 ---
 Andrew Boyd
 http://onblogging.com.au
 
 
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Re: Re: [WSG] Standards compliance and Autocomplete

2008-06-30 Thread William Donovan


I have had the same question fluttering around in my head.

the thought process for me begins with Accessibility:
can other people still get to the search result that the auto complete is 
attempting to show if the are using a screen reader or have javascript turned 
off, or there are bugs (like viewing via a mobile device).

Then there is the standards way of marking up information and following all the 
other best practice ways of doing things.

William



 Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Lisa Herrod wrote:
  Just wondering if there is a standards compliant way of implementing 
  'autocomplete' on forms, which I believe is proprietry...?
 
 Not tested it, but...could you inject the autocomplete=off via 
 javascript to the form element?
 
  An example might be that there is a login and password field on a 
  banking site and you don't want the browser to remember the data. I 
  realise there are ways around this and that smart people can still 
 work 
  it out :)
 
 Again, not tested, but unless I'm mistaken: when using https, the 
 browser doesn't cache/autocomplete (I may be talking out of my rear 
 here, but it does ring a vague bell).
 
 If all else fails, I'd rather have an invalid attribute (with a good 
 rationale why it was used) that doesn't have adverse effects (as opposed 
 
 to invalid elements, which have the potential of messing up the DOM more 
 
 dramatically) any day if it actually provides an improvement to 
 usability.
 
 P
 -- 
 Patrick H. Lauke
 __
 re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
 [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
 www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
 http://redux.deviantart.com
 __
 Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
 http://webstandards.org/
 __
 
 
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Re: [WSG] Please unsubscribe me

2008-06-30 Thread William Donovan
 http://redux.deviantart.com
 __
 Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
 http://webstandards.org/
 __
 
 *
 From: William Donovan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 11:21:57 +1000
 Subject: Re: Re: [WSG] Standards compliance and Autocomplete
 
 
 
 I have had the same question fluttering around in my head.
 
 the thought process for me begins with Accessibility:
 can other people still get to the search result that the auto complete 
 is attempting to show if the are using a screen reader or have 
 javascript turned off, or there are bugs (like viewing via a mobile 
 device).
 
 Then there is the standards way of marking up information and following 
 all the other best practice ways of doing things.
 
 William
 
 
 
  Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  Lisa Herrod wrote:
   Just wondering if there is a standards compliant way of implementing 
 
   'autocomplete' on forms, which I believe is proprietry...?
  
  Not tested it, but...could you inject the autocomplete=off via 
  javascript to the form element?
  
   An example might be that there is a login and password field on a 
   banking site and you don't want the browser to remember the data. I 
   realise there are ways around this and that smart people can still 
  work 
   it out :)
  
  Again, not tested, but unless I'm mistaken: when using https, the 
  browser doesn't cache/autocomplete (I may be talking out of my rear 
  here, but it does ring a vague bell).
  
  If all else fails, I'd rather have an invalid attribute (with a good 
  rationale why it was used) that doesn't have adverse effects (as 
 opposed 
  
  to invalid elements, which have the potential of messing up the DOM 
 more 
  
  dramatically) any day if it actually provides an improvement to 
  usability.
  
  P
  -- 
  Patrick H. Lauke
  __
  reÃ'·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
  [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
  www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
  http://redux.deviantart.com
  __
  Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
  http://webstandards.org/
  __
  
  
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 *
 From: Lisa Herrod [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 11:24:32 +1000
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Standards compliance and Autocomplete
 
 2008/7/1 Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
  Lisa Herrod wrote:
 
  Just wondering if there is a standards compliant way of implementing
  'autocomplete' on forms, which I believe is proprietry...?
 
 
  Not tested it, but...could you inject the autocomplete=off via 
 javascript
  to the form element?
 
 
 Thanks Pat, yeah that's what I thought. I wanted confirmation from smart
 people like you though :)
 
 
 
  If all else fails, I'd rather have an invalid attribute (with a good
  rationale why it was used) that doesn't have adverse effects (as 
 opposed to
  invalid elements, which have the potential of messing up the DOM more
  dramatically) any day if it actually provides an improvement to 
 usability.
 
 
 Yeah that's what I reckon too. if all else passes i can live with 
 something
 like this. But I did want to see if there was anything out there before 
 I
 went with it.
 
 
  Thanks for that ;)
 
 lisa
 
 
 -- 
 Lisa Herrod
 Web Usability: User Experience Research, Consulting and Training
 
 Business: http://www.Scenarioseven.com.au
 Blog: http://www.Scenariogirl.com
 
 
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Re: RE: [WSG] Please unsubscribe me

2008-06-30 Thread William Donovan
 of implementing
   'autocomplete' on forms, which I believe is proprietry...?
  
  Not tested it, but...could you inject the autocomplete=off via
  javascript to the form element?
  
   An example might be that there is a login and password field on a
   banking site and you don't want the browser to remember the data. I
   realise there are ways around this and that smart people can still 
 work
   it out :)
  
  Again, not tested, but unless I'm mistaken: when using https, the
  browser doesn't cache/autocomplete (I may be talking out of my rear
  here, but it does ring a vague bell).
  
  If all else fails, I'd rather have an invalid attribute (with a good
  rationale why it was used) that doesn't have adverse effects (as 
 opposed
  to invalid elements, which have the potential of messing up the DOM 
 more
  dramatically) any day if it actually provides an improvement to 
 usability.
  
  P
  --
  Patrick H. Lauke
  __
  re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
  [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
  www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
  http://redux.deviantart.com
  __
  Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
  http://webstandards.org/
  __
  
  *
  From: William Donovan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 11:21:57 +1000
  Subject: Re: Re: [WSG] Standards compliance and Autocomplete
  
  
  
  I have had the same question fluttering around in my head.
  
  the thought process for me begins with Accessibility:
  can other people still get to the search result that the auto 
 complete is attempting to show if
 the are
  using a screen reader or have javascript turned off, or there are bugs 
 (like viewing via a mobile
  device).
  
  Then there is the standards way of marking up information and 
 following all the other best
 practice ways
  of doing things.
  
  William
  
  
  
   Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   Lisa Herrod wrote:
Just wondering if there is a standards compliant way of 
 implementing
'autocomplete' on forms, which I believe is proprietry...?
  
   Not tested it, but...could you inject the autocomplete=off via
   javascript to the form element?
  
An example might be that there is a login and password field on a
banking site and you don't want the browser to remember the data. 
 I
realise there are ways around this and that smart people can still
   work
it out :)
  
   Again, not tested, but unless I'm mistaken: when using https, the
   browser doesn't cache/autocomplete (I may be talking out of my rear
   here, but it does ring a vague bell).
  
   If all else fails, I'd rather have an invalid attribute (with a good
   rationale why it was used) that doesn't have adverse effects (as 
 opposed
  
   to invalid elements, which have the potential of messing up the DOM 
 more
  
   dramatically) any day if it actually provides an improvement to
   usability.
  
   P
   --
   Patrick H. Lauke
   __
   reÃ'·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
   [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
   www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
   http://redux.deviantart.com
   __
   Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
   http://webstandards.org/
   __
  
  
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  *
  From: Lisa Herrod [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 11:24:32 +1000
  Subject: Re: [WSG] Standards compliance and Autocomplete
  
  2008/7/1 Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  
   Lisa Herrod wrote:
  
   Just wondering if there is a standards compliant way of 
 implementing
   'autocomplete' on forms, which I believe is proprietry...?
  
  
   Not tested it, but...could you inject the autocomplete=off via 
 javascript
   to the form element?
  
  
  Thanks Pat, yeah that's what I thought. I wanted confirmation from 
 smart
  people like you though :)
  
  
  
   If all else fails, I'd rather have an invalid attribute (with a good
   rationale why it was used) that doesn't have adverse effects (as 
 opposed to
   invalid elements, which have the potential of messing up the DOM 
 more
   dramatically) any day if it actually provides an improvement to 
 usability.
  
  
  Yeah that's what I

Re: [WSG] Css validation

2008-06-25 Thread William Donovan


I would say plug your code directly into the W3C CSS validator
http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/#validate_by_input

and delete the hacks.

However i have used hacks before and found that they did still pass through the 
validator.

Could there be errors in your hacks.

Also, just as a note, errors could be highlighted in a validator as warnings 
and not so much actual errors.

William

 Fuji kusaka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Hi anyone can help me out with validating my css?...
 
 I cant pass validation because of some css hacks i used. Is there a way 
 to
 hide those hacks when i validate it?
 
 -- 
 Fuji kusaka
 
 
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Re: RE: [WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS

2008-06-24 Thread William Donovan

I agree, this is not web standards. However remember they could be following 
web standards with their CSS version.

and I don't think it is just in the UK, it is every where for Vodafone. 
Which not only defies any effort you made to put the thing together for 
presentation standards as well.

I think it is their solution to controlling the user experience on handset side 
of things when someone accesses mobile web. 

Why don't they let the community sought it out?
It seems now that if standards are to be effective in the mobile access space, 
there is now another hump to get an open standard.

William




 Darren Lovelock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 I just read the article about Vodafone UK and their manipulation of the
 user-agent header http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/vodafonerant/index.htm
 
 I don't know if this is old news to you guys but Vodafone is passing 
 mobile
 internet connections through proxy software called Novarra. Novarra is
 supposed to re-render the page as 'mobile friendly'. Because it is using 
 the
 proxy server your handheld CSS file is ignored and a poor version of the
 site is delivered to the mobile user instead.
 
 This also affects websites that have specific content or downloads based 
 on
 the user agent, say for example MP3's or images with different sizes 
 that
 are provided for multiple mobile devices due to their differences in
 compatibility. These sites wont be able to detect the correct user agent 
 as
 they will be working with the proxy and not the mobile device.
 
 Not only that but it also means that SSL connections are not secure 
 through
 it either!
 
 Surely this is heavily against web standards?
 
 Darren Lovelock
 Munky Online Web Design
 http://www.munkyonline.co.uk
 T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 On
 Behalf Of Jens Nedal
 Sent: 24 June 2008 11:07
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS
 
 Paul Collins wrote:
  Hi all,
  
  I'm trying to find a comprehensive list of Mobile phone browsers and 
  CSS support. I currently have a Nokia N70 and as far as I can see it 
  doesn't support CSS at all. But, perhaps with a stylesheet targeting 
  mobile phones it would?!
  
  The main reason is, I am trying to decide whether putting the main 
  logo of a site in as an inline image is better than a background, as 
  it would still show up with CSS not supported. But then, how many 
  mobile browsers still don't support CSS whatsoever?!
  
 
 In addition if you are trying to locate which mobile browser from which
 mobile vendor is coming along, this universal XML File called WURFL 
 might
 help alot. It contains information about the capabilities and features 
 of
 many mobile devices and more.
 
 http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/
 
 regards, Jens
 
 
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Re: [WSG] Breadcrumbs showing organisational structure and usability

2008-06-06 Thread William Donovan


Hi Lib,

this may be off topic and more a usability question. however I see relatedness 
in how to structure them semantically and to benifit those that may wish to use 
them.

I find that they can be a nice to have to assist users, however if you have to 
tab through these, they become extra links and not much assistance for 
accessibility users.

I'm sure others will have some more standards related comments for you.

But I feel it comes more down to the benifit for the users if these are used at 
all.

William

 libwebdev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Hi folks,
 
 My organisation manages around 7000+ pages for 100s of departments,
 using a CMS. Mine is the only department outside the CMS, just because
 we can.
 
 We have been persuaded (read: bullied) to redesign our header to
 exactly match that of the parent organisation. I have no problem with
 that per se, but theirs includes breadcrumbs, and we don't want 'em.
 
 I'm wondering what the consensus is here on their usefulness. I've
 always been under the impression that the purpose of breadcrumbs was
 to indicate to the user where they had been. However, the ones we are
 being urged to implement do no such thing; they simply display our
 organisational structure. This means that on every one of our 200-odd
 pages, the breadcrumbs will appear like so (we are the library):
 
 Parent Org  Clinical Services  Library   Current page
 
 The only thing that's going to change is the current page. To me,
 that's not a breadcrumb trail at all.
 
 Am I wrong in my thinking? Is this a common usage? How does this
 benefit the user at all?
 
 I'm questioning it because of usability issues, which is how I tie it
 in with web standards. If this is considered off-topic, I apologise,
 and replies should come directly to me rather than the list.
 
 thanks,
 lib.
 
 
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Re: [WSG] Accessibility and Joomla

2008-05-22 Thread William Donovan

Depending which version of Dreamweaver you have,

There was a plug-in for Dreamweaver that assisted you in setting up Joomla 
templates and made sure all the keyword section where added to interface with 
the CMS.

William


 Susie Gardner-Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 I¹m just starting to (try to!) learn Joomla as I¹m going to have to use 
 it
 on a few upcoming sites. Having looked at the html output as I work 
 through
 some of the tutorials, I¹m wondering how accessible sites created in 
 Joomla
 are, and if anyone has any experience/knowledge of good sites to help in
 this area ... ?
 
 Obviously I¹m going to be doing my own stylesheets and taking it out of
 table layout. At the moment I¹m wondering if it¹d be easier to develop 
 the
 site structure/CSS in Dreamweaver and then move it into Joomla.
 
 Cheers
 Susie
 
 
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[WSG] restricting width in the body tag

2008-03-26 Thread William Donovan

Hi all,

I wanted to ask a question of better practice and current standards view.

Is it better to have a header and footer stretch across the width of the 
browser window or be restricted to the width of the defined. left aligned 
content area. Leaving lots of vacant white space for people with wider screen 
resolution.

(the question arises as people are becoming concerned about laptop users with 
1600 pixel wide computer screens)


and if it is to be restricted in width, should the styling restriction be 
applied to the body tag?

Thank
William


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Re: Re: [WSG] restricting width in the body tag

2008-03-26 Thread William Donovan


A design issue, possibly,

However the end basis for decisions are standards and evidence, and was 
wondering if there was any out there. If no real evidence is available, the it 
is up to those with the strongest opinion.

Good note on assessing environments and user requirements, however that is not 
something that happens or is monitored.


William



 Chris Broadfoot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 William Donovan wrote:
  Hi all,
  
  I wanted to ask a question of better practice and current standards 
 view.
  
  Is it better to have a header and footer stretch across the width of 
 the browser window or be restricted to the width of the defined. left 
 aligned content area. Leaving lots of vacant white space for people with 
 wider screen resolution.
  
  (the question arises as people are becoming concerned about laptop 
 users with 1600 pixel wide computer screens)
  
  
  and if it is to be restricted in width, should the styling restriction 
 be applied to the body tag?
  
  Thank
  William
  
 
 This, to me, sounds like a design decision and doesn't seem related to 
 web standards at all.
 
 Review your targeted viewers, and assess your design and usability in 
 whatever environments your viewers will be using
 
 Chris
 
 
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Re: [WSG] Story Boards

2007-10-09 Thread William Donovan

What about Visio,

I'm just thinking that you're already using Microsoft products that this may be 
something you could use.

I know of people who use Visio a lot for wireframes and mock-ups. I suppose it 
depends on what details your lecturer is wanting in your story board's.

the only setback I can think of is that Visio has a lot of application for 
other purposes such as relational database design, flowcharts.

does anyone know if this may help Marvin

William Donovan



 marvin hunkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  
 Hi.
 doing a project for my website development course.
 now, part of the requirements says that i need to create a story board 
 to represent what content is to be displayed on each page.
 Now sighted students, would draw navigation and story board diagrams.
 now, had to do this in word tables and tried html.
 but my lecturer is still not happy with what i have come up with.
 now, just wondering, is there any software, that might be able to 
 represent the story boards for the four websites that i am developing 
 for this semester.
 any tips, tricks, or any other similar experiences.
 let me know, if anyone been in the same position.
 unfortunately the guy who did start to develop an accessible text to 
 speech drawing software, got his phd, and did not complete the project 
 and still in limbo.
 he got to the third user tests, and then nicked off.
 he did this at Burkely University in Callifornia and the product was to 
 be called Intercommunication Draw 2.
 okay, can you help out or give suggestions or how to resolve these 
 problems?
 cheers Marvin. 
 _
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Re: Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard

2007-10-03 Thread William Donovan

 Which idea of accessability should be imposed? Yours? Mine? Certainly 
 not a
 judge who likely has no concept of the situation or technology. Cases 
 like
 this lead to red blooded legislation that takes far too long to fix, and
 even longer to repeal.


Why didn't you just say this at the beginning Chris.

the argument gets lost too much in analogies that do not relate and the cause 
then gets diluted.

What can the judge do to help and for what benifit can examples like Target 
help us all out with.
Remember first people have to take notice of why is going on.

Gerry McGovern spreads a message of customer-centric design to web site 
information. making the site easier to access not just for the disable, can 
also enable a better customer experience for those that are able.

William


 Chris Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 I think my point is being missed entirely. I completely support 
 standards
 and accesability, but not at this cost. Should target improve their 
 site?
 Yes. Should the be required to by a court? No.
 
 Which idea of accessability should be imposed? Yours? Mine? Certainly 
 not a
 judge who likely has no concept of the situation or technology. Cases 
 like
 this lead to red blooded legislation that takes far too long to fix, and
 even longer to repeal.
 
 
 On 10/3/07, Cat Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Maybe I'm missing something here, but Mount Everest was not man-made. 
 The
  Target site on the other hand ...
 
  Cat
 
  On 10/3/07, Chris Wilson  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  
Or do you think that your right to 'do what the hell you like'
   outweighs other people's right to be treated equally?
  
   Be treated equally? They have to CHOOSE to visit the site. So, 
 because
   they want (want need)to do something, others should accommodate?
  
   I want to visit the summit of mount everest... I suppose the people 
 of
   tibet should install an escalator just so I can reach the top due to 
 my
   less-then-perfect phisical status. Damn them for not allowing me to 
 the
   summit, I'm going to sue.
  
   Idiocy.
  
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