[WSG] RE: WSG Digest

2011-09-27 Thread Dave Smith
 
Hi Tee

When trying the max/min width approach, was the Meta Viewport Tag used?
The Meta Viewport Tag as found in the Viewport section on 
http://developer.apple.com/library/safari/#documentation/AppleApplications/Reference/SafariHTMLRef/Articles/MetaTags.html


meta name=viewport content=width=device-width,initial-scale = 
1.0 is the standard one you'll see around the place including HTML5
 Boilerplate. And this compliments the min/max approach (makes it sane).
Equally I found using meta name=viewport content=initial-scale=1.0 
worked, but I have yet to test it on many devices.
The difference between the two are that on iOS the first will always keep the 
viewport width the same in both orientations, i.e. 320 portrait and landscape 
on iPhone. Whereas the second will be 320 in portrait and 480 in landscape.

There is a bug in iOS that when using either of the above where orientating to 
landscape zooms the viewport. This was irritating to begin with but only 
requires a quick pinch to correct. There are hacks that fix it but so far I've 
only seen ones that disable zoom. I like zoom, so prefer to leave the bug with 
iOS.

If not seen already, PPK's A Tale of Two Viewports is an excellent insight into 
this crazy world :D http://www.quirksmode.org/mobile/viewports.html

all the best, Dave @davesmiths

 
 I would love to hear what other think about the approach for 
 device-width vs max/min width.
 
 For myself, I have done a couple sites targeting device-width and really 
 think this is better approach. The hype about responsive design got me 
 to try out the max/min width approach, I find that I need to tackle more 
 the the window resizes (and this means writing more CSS rules means 
 penalizing touchscreen device user), and the experience can be quite 
 awful seeing it from desktop browser. 
 
 I'm sort of in a defeated mood right now, really feel that except the 
 ego to show off, I'm unable to find a convincing reason that desktop 
 user needs to be given a responsive website anything smaller than 
 800px.
 
 tee
 
  

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Re: [WSG] image substitution

2011-07-30 Thread Dave Westell
Hi there,

I have used FontJazz in the past, you can use any font and it is very easy to 
implement, just one small javascript file.

Check it out, just Google FontJazz

Dave...

On 31 Jul 2011, at 03:54, Lucien Stals wrote:

 The designers have specified a font I must use to write a sites name in the 
 top banner. It is not a standard font, and I don't think it's licensed for 
 redistribution anyway.
 
 I think my only option is to generate an image for the banner using the right 
 font (or is there a better option?). 
 What is the current best practice for having an accessible text banner, while 
 showing the image based banner?
 
 Are we still using the trick of shifting the text off the side of the screen 
 with negative positioning? Or is there a better, more accessible way?
 
 Thanks.
 
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Re: [WSG] PDF Conversion

2011-02-08 Thread Dave Lane

On 09/02/11 16:00, Russ Weakley wrote:
 Some questions:
 
 1. are you also aiming to make the PDF's accessible? (i.e. tagged
 PDFs)
 
 2. why PDF to Word? I have found there is little benefit in this type
 of conversion. I just checked with a blind user now - asking is
 there any advantage in Word over PDF?
 
 His answer: If the PDF is well structured, converting it to Word
 could remove some of the assistive structure. If the PF is not well
 structured, there is no advantage either way

Thanks for asking those questions, Russ, and checking with users of
assistive technologies. I also wondered how moving from an open standard
to a proprietary one would help anyone with anything...

Sadly, most people creating documents know far less about structured
data, consistent formatting, and open standards than people on this list...

Dave

-- 
Dave Lane, Egressive Ltd d...@egressive.com m +64212298147 p +6439633733
http://egressive.com  Free/OpenSourceSoftware: because to share is human
Only use Open Standards - w3.org, Drupal powers communities - drupal.org
Effusion Group http://effusiongroup.com Software Patents kill innovation


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Re: [WSG] PDF Conversion

2011-02-08 Thread Dave Lane
On 09/02/11 16:55, Russ Weakley wrote:
 Hi Kerry. Neither the blind user or I were suggesting that
 alternatives were not a good idea, or even a requirement. I'd always
 recommend providing an HTML alternative if possible along with
 accessible (tagged) PDF. The question was about Word as as a viable
 alternative to PDF. I am not sure it is. Though others may disagree!

I'm not an accessibility expert, but it seems pretty obvious that if the
PDF isn't well structured (which would presumably make it more
accessible), I can't imagine that converting it to an MS Word document
will add any sensible structure that wasn't there before.

Using standards compliant HTML as an alternative accessible standard
makes much more sense (again, assuming the source document wasn't
generated from your typical poorly structured MS Word document).

Regards,

Dave
-- 
Dave Lane, Egressive Ltd d...@egressive.com m +64212298147 p +6439633733
http://egressive.com  Free/OpenSourceSoftware: because to share is human
Only use Open Standards - w3.org, Drupal powers communities - drupal.org
Effusion Group http://effusiongroup.com Software Patents kill innovation


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Re: [WSG] PDF Conversion

2011-02-08 Thread Dave Lane
On 09/02/11 20:17, Michael MD wrote:
 My recommendation: If its for public release and needs to be accessible or
 converted to other formats, don't use pdf to start with!

I think it's fair to say that if the source document is poorly
structured or lacks structure, you're out of luck no matter what you do.

People need to be trained to understand the importance of structural
conventions and consistency... and now we've come full circle back to
open standard formats :)

Dave


-- 
Dave Lane, Egressive Ltd d...@egressive.com m +64212298147 p +6439633733
http://egressive.com  Free/OpenSourceSoftware: because to share is human
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Re: [WSG] IE6 Finally Nearing Extinction [STATS]

2010-06-12 Thread Dave Lane
For what it's worth, some of our non-techie sites (with much smaller
user numbers, as they're focused on the relatively tiny New Zealand
market) are showing a slightly rosier picture over the past month:

Advocacy website for cyclists (4544 visits):
IE: 41.57% (IE6-15.09% 7-37.96% 8-46.96%)
FF: 40.29%
CHROME:  9.09%
SAFARI:  7.68%
OPERA:   0.62%

IE6 = 6.27%

Sports clothing (28,337 visits):
IE: 49.92% (IE6-13.8% 7-27.06% 8-59.11%)
FF: 24.87%
CHROME:  6.20%
SAFARI: 17.82%
OPERA:   0.77%

IE6 = 6.88%

Brewers website (3,300 visits):
IE: 45.97% (IE6-10.42% 7-30.72% 8-58.87%)
FF: 30.06%
CHROME: 11.27%
SAFARI: 10.03%
OPERA:   1.03%

IE6 = 4.79%

Tourism operator (4,041 visits):
IE: 54.84% (IE6-11.60% 7-28.07% 8-60.24%)
FF: 26.73%
CHROME:  4.80%
SAFARI: 12.77%
OPERA:   0.42%

IE6 = 6.36%

For contrast, here're the stats for a tech company.

IT services and software dev company (3,050 visits):
IE: 15.02% (IE6-8.52% 7-19.87% 8-71.62%)
FF: 56.20%
CHROME: 18.52%
SAFARI:  5.48%
OPERA:   2.82%

IE6 = 1.28%

If I was Microsoft I'd be quite worried that the IT support pros,
influencers and developers have such a different make-up than the
mainstream.

Cheers,

Dave

On 12/06/10 00:32, Lea de Groot wrote:
 On 11/06/10 9:32 PM, Foskett, Mike wrote:
 I just took a peek at our own stats for May 2010.

 A very large set limited to UK online shoppers only.

 And I couldn't agree less with the article.
 
 I have a couple of large .au 'mum and dad' sites (ie, not techie) and I
 have similar results to your .uk figures:
 
 Internet Explorer67.11%   
 Firefox17.19%   
 Safari9.70%   
 Chrome4.67%   
 
 with specific IE figures of
 IE8.059.08%   
 IE7.028.46%   
 IE6.012.44%   
 
 ie IE 6 is at 8.3% overall - lower than your numbers, but still worth
 testing for.
 
 Interestingly, I have iphone/ipod numbers at 2.77% and rising fast - I
 guess I better get those mobile versions up!
 
 Lea

-- 
Dave Lane, Egressive Ltd d...@egressive.com m +64212298147 p +6439633733
http://egressive.com  Free/OpenSourceSoftware: because to share is human
Only use Open Standards - w3.org, Drupal powers communities - drupal.org
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Re: [WSG] Standards based Drupal WYSIWYG Editor

2010-02-26 Thread Dave Lane
We make extensive use of TinyMCE with Drupal (we're a Drupal development 
shop) - it's not perfect, but it does offer a lot of flexibility 
regarding acceptable tags, and we've been able to get it to provide 
XHTML compliant code. Combined with filters like Tidy, it's possible to 
ensure that you don't get non-compliant code being entered.


rantThe biggest issue is the complexity of cleaning up cut-pasted 
content from MS Word... *that's* a problem. TinyMCE offers a Paste from 
Word function which strips most of the rubbish from Word-produced 
content, but it's a pain to use... or people assume that anything coming 
from MS Word is clearly well suited for the web... We spend a lot of 
time trying to discourage people from using Word for authoring web 
content, because it's a very poor tool for doing so, but we have a hard 
time suggesting a palatable alternative (people seem to find the idea of 
composing content in the actual TinyMCE interface totally absurd, which 
doesn't make much sense to me...)./rant


Regards,

Dave

On 27/02/10 07:32, Kepler Gelotte wrote:

Just spent a day with FCKEditor only to find that there appears to be
no way to have site CSS appear in the Style dropdown, w/o transforming

the

CSS into XML.


That is not entirely accurate. The fckstyles.xml tells the editor which
styles the user can apply and how to apply them. The actual CSS definition
is defined in your CSS file and can be modified without updating the
fckstyles.xml again.

Best regards,

Kepler Gelotte
Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.
156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854
www.neighborwebmaster.com
phone/fax: (732) 302-0904





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http://egressive.com  Free/OpenSourceSoftware: because to share is human
Only use Open Standards - w3.org, Drupal powers communities - drupal.org
Effusion Group http://effusiongroup.com Software Patents kill innovation


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Re: [WSG] my latest version of my page

2009-09-19 Thread Dave Westell

Hi Marvin,

You have missing image files,

http://startrekcafe.alacorncomputer.com/images/fruit_banana.jpg

http://startrekcafe.alacorncomputer.com/images/m_a_essam_1114164_16526150.jpg

Also cannot see any rollover effects

Regards...
Dave


- Original Message - 
From: Marvin Hunkin startrekc...@gmail.com

To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 7:51 AM
Subject: [WSG] my latest version of my page



hi.
well replaced the image for the rollovers.
take a look at http://startrekcafe.alacorncomputer.com
cheers Marvin.
ps: any feedback, good, bad or ugly.




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Re: [WSG] my latest version of my page

2009-09-19 Thread Dave Westell

Hi Marvin,

OK I now see you are using mouseover () mouseOut() effects...

Your .js script is missing .

http://www.alacorncomputer.com/javascript/fruit.js

Also your page does not validate, you have one too many closing divides 
/div after #nav1


Dave...

- Original Message - 
From: Marvin Hunkin startrekc...@gmail.com

To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 7:51 AM
Subject: [WSG] my latest version of my page



hi.
well replaced the image for the rollovers.
take a look at http://startrekcafe.alacorncomputer.com
cheers Marvin.
ps: any feedback, good, bad or ugly.




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RE: [WSG] Safari Beta 4

2009-02-27 Thread dave turner
dude! 

You not on a mac?  See you next week!

Dave Citect Turner


From: Levell Rampono lev...@pro-perspective.com
Sent: 26 February 2009 15:53
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Safari Beta 4 

Handling it very, very well and I'm
running on a PC!  

  

From: 
li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of 
Todd Budnikas

Sent: Thursday, 26 February 2009
3:07 PM

To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org

Subject: Re: [WSG] Safari Beta 4 

  

according to Mr. Andrew Lyle: 

Safari 4 is the
first web browser to pass the web standards Acid 3 test which demonstrates how
well a browser adheres to CSS, javascript, XML and SVG. 

  

So, i'd say it's handling
them pretty well :) 

  

http://acid3.acidtests.org/ 

  

  

On Feb 25, 2009, at 10:39 PM,
Kevin Erickson wrote: 

Hi,  

Anyone know about how
the new Safari Beta 4 is handling the current standards of the Web?  

   

Thanks,  

Kevin

  

No virus found in
this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG.

Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1969 - Release Date: 2/24/2009 6:43
AM  

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Re: [WSG] IE Problems

2009-02-13 Thread Dave Westell
I found problems with your [IF] End Tags I.E Should be:

!--[if gte mso 9]
![endif]--

Not:

!--[if gte mso 9]

!--[endif]--

This was making your whole page hidden from Internet Explorer

Dave



  - Original Message - 
  From: Kristine Cummins 
  To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 
  Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 9:32 PM
  Subject: RE: [WSG] IE Problems


  Update: I found the source of the issue. it's the WYSWYG WP blog edit content 
interface that mucked up the HTML and inserted an enormous amount of 
unnecessary formatting code in. Is there a way to keep this from happening? 
This is probably more of a question for WP but thought I'd put it out there.

   

  From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On 
Behalf Of Kristine Cummins
  Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 12:19 PM
  To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
  Subject: [WSG] IE Problems

   

  I snagged a WP blog theme (for which I will also attempt to reach the 
original designer) has an IE issue but OK in FF. It's a 3-col layout and the 
center col content and the footer will not show up. I have done a few 
troubleshooting things and nothing has worked so far. Any help appreciated.

  Blog: http://allenmireles.com
  Stylesheet: http://allenmireles.com/wp-content/themes/wp-andreas01/style.css


  Thanks,
  Kristine


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Re: [WSG] IE Problems

2009-02-13 Thread Dave Westell
Just to clarify some of your IF comments closed incorrectly but your las one 
closed correctly, so Internet Explorer will Hide the content.
So just find the closing if comments and correct them.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Dave Westell 
  To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 
  Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 10:26 PM
  Subject: Re: [WSG] IE Problems


  I found problems with your [IF] End Tags I.E Should be:

  !--[if gte mso 9]
  ![endif]--

  Not:

  !--[if gte mso 9]

  !--[endif]--

  This was making your whole page hidden from Internet Explorer

  Dave



- Original Message - 
From: Kristine Cummins 
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 9:32 PM
Subject: RE: [WSG] IE Problems


Update: I found the source of the issue. it's the WYSWYG WP blog edit 
content interface that mucked up the HTML and inserted an enormous amount of 
unnecessary formatting code in. Is there a way to keep this from happening? 
This is probably more of a question for WP but thought I'd put it out there.

 

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On 
Behalf Of Kristine Cummins
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 12:19 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] IE Problems

 

I snagged a WP blog theme (for which I will also attempt to reach the 
original designer) has an IE issue but OK in FF. It's a 3-col layout and the 
center col content and the footer will not show up. I have done a few 
troubleshooting things and nothing has worked so far. Any help appreciated.

Blog: http://allenmireles.com
Stylesheet: http://allenmireles.com/wp-content/themes/wp-andreas01/style.css


Thanks,
Kristine


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RE: [WSG] Re: Users who deliberately disable JavaScript

2009-01-30 Thread Dave Hall
On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 23:48 -0500, Rick Faircloth wrote:
 According to statistics supplied by w3schools.com, as of Jan 08
 approximately 95% of users had JS enabled.
 
 Check out http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
 and look towards the middle of the page for the stats.

Just to keep this thread kicking (I am behind in my mail).

I would suggest that w3schools attracts a more switched on user than
say Live Search, YouTube or myspace/facebook/insert social network here.
Stats from those types of sites are what I would be more interested in
seeing.  IMO stats from tech sites are not very representative of the
general intarwebs user base.

Cheers

Dave



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[WSG] Helpful Criticism and Browser test plz

2009-01-21 Thread Dave Westell

Hi all,

Just got  my latest project to validate XHTML Strict, and just wanted any 
helpful criticism and also to see if any problems with any Browsers and 
Operating Systems .


http://www.clock-this.co.uk/

Thanks in advance..

Dave.. 




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Re: [WSG] Helpful Criticism and Browser test plz

2009-01-21 Thread Dave Westell
Thanks, I will try to impliment your suggestions I am just getting out of 
the MSFrontpage stage and working with divs instead of tables. so I fully 
respect your views.


BTW the flash animation is only supposed to load then stop... as  requested 
by client..


- Original Message - 
From: Rimantas Liubertas riman...@gmail.com

To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Helpful Criticism and Browser test plz



Just got  my latest project to validate XHTML Strict, and just wanted any
helpful criticism and also to see if any problems with any Browsers and
Operating Systems .

http://www.clock-this.co.uk/


Pro:
Looks nice

Cons:
 - increasing text size messes thing up (at least in Safari/Mac)

 - Inline styles (style=…) – bad idea. CSS is about seperation
content and presentation, so inline styles should be avoided.

 - This is really bad:
divp/br/br/br/br/br/br/br/br/br/br/br/br/br/br/br/br/br/br/br/br/br/br/br/img
src=img/quote2.jpg alt=//div.
  Decorative images shouldn't be in you XHTML code, they belong in
CSS. Also, use CSS to position them.

 - This is especially bad: div
onmouseover=this.style.background='transparent';
this.style.color='#93278e';
onmouseout=this.style.background='transparent';
this.style.color='#606060'; class=txtnavbaritem style=left: 11px;
top: 11px; width: 109px; height: 18px; background: transparent;
font-family: Microsoft Sans Serif; font-size: 11px; color: #606060;
opacity: 1.00; filter: alpha(opacity=100);
text-decoration:none;padding-left: 10px; font-weight:bold;a
style=text-decoration:none
href=http://www.clock-this.co.uk/tick-talk.php;Tick Talk/a/div
Jus use CSS for effect: define how your links look with a:link {…},
and then define how they look while mouse is over them with a:hover
{…} That way you will avoid needles
code repetition, unnecessary Javascript and inline styles, code will
be much more compact and easier to read/maintain.

I think this will do for starters, did not dig deeper.

Regards,
Rimantas
--
http://rimantas.com/


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Re: [WSG] Downloading Fonts

2008-12-08 Thread Dave Hall
On Mon, 2008-12-08 at 12:33 -0800, David Hucklesby wrote:
  On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Marvin Hunkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Hi.
  rebuilding my site.
  and i have the following fonts in my style sheet.
 
  georgia, century school book, courrier, new courrier, comic ms, and 
  others. but i
  notice, that on my local hard disk, or when i did have it on the web, but 
  closed it
  for copyright issues. it was only displaying  arial. did try searching on 
  google. but
  found a couple of sites, but did not work. so where can i download fonts 
  for my site?
 
 On Mon, 8 Dec 2008 13:12:36 +1100, James Ducker replied:
  As a general rule you cannot use non-system fonts on the web, as the end 
  user needs to
  have them installed as well (I think this is what you're asking?). One 
  workaround is to
  use sIFR ( http://www.mikeindustries.com/blog/sifr/ ). Also, here is a list 
  of fonts
  that are generally considered to be web safe: 
  http://web.mit.edu/jmorzins/www/fonts.html
 
 
 Umm. Most of the fonts Marvin lists are available on most computers.
 I think he is saying that he does not have them on *his* computer, so
 wants to download them so he can see how each affects his design.
 
 I am on Mac, and would like to install some Windows-only fonts
 for myself. Anyone?

I originally replied to Marvin offlist, but I will post a modified
version of my response here as others seem interested in it.

To get the standard Windows fonts, you need to grab them from
sourceforge using the following instructions.

Just append the filename to the end of the URL listed below, here is the
list of files.

andale32.exe
arialb32.exe
arial32.exe
comic32.exe
courie32.exe
georgi32.exe
georgi32.exe
impact32.exe
times32.exe
trebuc32.exe
verdan32.exe
webdin32.exe

URL: http://switch.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/corefonts/

So for Arial you would use
http://switch.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/corefonts/arialb32.exe 

The .exe file are windows cabinets.  Top extract the on a mac try
http://cabextract.darwinports.com/ .  Note: I don't own a mac, but if
you send me one I will happily test this on it :) 

You might also want to install the Liberation fonts 
https://fedorahosted.org/liberation-fonts/  which ship with most modern
Linux distros and are released under the terms of the GPL (with an
exemption which stops working using the fonts becoming subject to the
GPL).

Cheers

Dave



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Re: [WSG] the Name attribute

2008-11-28 Thread Dave Hall
On Thu, 2008-11-27 at 23:11 -0600, Brett Patterson wrote:
 What Dave?

I was simply illustrating how to make text blink in a standards
compliant way.  You never know someone might find such information
useful one day.  The example I provided would allow them to avoid using
the ugly non standard blink

Cheers

Dave

PS this wasn't supposed to be taken as advocating the use of blinking text :)

 
 On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 6:04 AM, Dave Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Thu, 2008-11-27 at 10:18 +, David Dorward wrote:
  Brett Patterson wrote:
   Where could I find a good information site about the
   document.images.imageId script line, please?
 
 
 
 http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-DOM-Level-1-19981001/level-one-html.html#ID-26809268
 
   And if you are trying to code using codes such as
   http://www.kirupa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=217502
  
   Just an example. A quick search to find.
 
  A quick search can also find out how to use blink tags and
 tables for
  layout. That is a good example of worst practises.
 
 
 Yes we all know that you should always use
 !-- ... --
 head
 style type=text/css
/* ... */
.blink{
text-decoration: blink;
}
/* ... */
 /style
 !-- ... --
 /head
 body
 !-- ... --
 span class=blinkmy blinking test/span
 !-- ... --
 /body
 
 instead of
 !-- ... --
 blinkmy blinking test/blink
 !-- ... --



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Re: [WSG] the Name attribute

2008-11-28 Thread Dave Hall
On Fri, 2008-11-28 at 13:07 +, Stuart Foulstone wrote:
 Blinking text is against standards in itself, so how can you do it in a
 standards compliant way?

Using the sample I posted - see below.  That validates.

Cheers

Dave

 
 On Fri, November 28, 2008 10:45 am, Dave Hall wrote:
  !-- ... --
  head
  style type=text/css
 /* ... */
 .blink{
 text-decoration: blink;
 }
 /* ... */
  /style
  !-- ... --
  /head
  body
  !-- ... --
  span class=blinkmy blinking test/span
  !-- ... --
  /body
 
  instead of
  !-- ... --
  blinkmy blinking test/blink
  !-- ... --



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Re: [WSG] Fw: The Great Firewall of Australia

2008-11-27 Thread Dave Hall
On Thu, 2008-11-27 at 21:19 +1100, nedlud wrote:
 Okay, so I *should* be concerned about this, in spite of what my
 common sense tells me.
 
 So what can we, as web professionals (in Australia), do about it?
 
 I've signed the getup petition. What's the next step?

You could _write_ a letter to Senator Conroy, you local MP and all
Senators who represent your state.  As many politicians aren't that
cluey they tend to ignore emails or at least consider them far less
important than snailed letters.  It costs you less than $5 to print and
post letters to the list above - even cheaper if you live in the ACT or
NT :)  If you feel like it send letters to the PM and leader of the
opposition too.  Make each letter unique and don't just use an online
sample, make it relevant to you.

Think about why are you concerned about this, how may it impact _you_?
Why are you writing to a particular MP/Senator?  Why should they listen
to (or read) what you have to say?

This gives you some indication of my letter to Senator Conroy -
http://tinyurl.com/conroy-letter  For my MP it will be similar, but for
senators it will be a bit more filter focused.

I hope this gives you some inspiration about how you can make your views
known.  Keep in mind, only emailing the minister and signing an online
opinion will register to marks in the against column.

Cheers

Dave who should finish his letter writing campaign



 
 Nedlud.
 
 
 On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 9:05 PM,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I am hoping that the live testing/trial that will
  be carried out early next year just shows that this
  is technically unfeasible. It is quite stupid to be
  filtering the internet for everyone in Australia,
  when it is much simpler to be done on each individual
  PC through the use of software as the previous
  Liberal government proposed.
 
 
  Andrew, I think you are miss-understanding how Government works: whether
  something is practical or not is pretty much never a concern unless they
  have to do the implementation themselves. In this case, it will be the
  ISP's that are forced to implement it, not the Gov itself.
 
  A similar example is in progress in the UK: the Gov have decided to
  introduce an 'uncrackable' bio-metric ID card for all citizens. They
  have been told time and again that it will not work, but this all gets
  outsourced to other companies, so if it fails then they get the blame,
  and so it goes ahead, against the wishes of pretty much the whole
  country.
 
  Mike
 
 
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Re: [WSG] the Name attribute

2008-11-27 Thread Dave Hall
On Thu, 2008-11-27 at 10:18 +, David Dorward wrote:
 Brett Patterson wrote:
  Where could I find a good information site about the
  document.images.imageId script line, please?
 
 http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-DOM-Level-1-19981001/level-one-html.html#ID-26809268
 
  And if you are trying to code using codes such as
  http://www.kirupa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=217502
  
  Just an example. A quick search to find.
 
 A quick search can also find out how to use blink tags and tables for
 layout. That is a good example of worst practises.

Yes we all know that you should always use 
!-- ... --
head
style type=text/css
/* ... */
.blink{
text-decoration: blink;
}
/* ... */
/style
!-- ... --
/head
body
!-- ... --
span class=blinkmy blinking test/span
!-- ... --
/body

instead of
!-- ... --
blinkmy blinking test/blink
!-- ... --

Cheers

Dave




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Re: [WSG] First Attempt

2008-11-25 Thread Dave Lane
Thank you for saying that, Elizabeth, couldn't agree more about both
frames and Flash...

I strongly recommend customers against fully-flash sites due to the
inconsistent (compared to web conventions), usually non-spiderable, and
inaccessible navigation, but agree it can be useful for specific
web-apps (wrapped in suitable HTML navigation, etc.) and some nice
branding-related effects... but generally, Flash is overused when HTML +
CSS with a sprinkling of Javascript could do the job better and in
accordance with web standards.

Regards,

Dave

Elizabeth Spiegel wrote:
 Hi Kate
 
  
 
 You said: “do need to study how frames work (naming) too.”
 
  
 
 Nononono!
 
  
 
 Frames are awful for accessibility and usability (iFrames are arguably
 better).  I can’t think of an example of a really good framed site
 (although other list members may be able to offer some).
 
  
 
 I used to say the same of Flash, but did eventually find some sites
 demonstrating really clever and appropriate uses for it.
 
  
 
  
 
 *Elizabeth Spiegel*
 
 *Web editing*
 
 *0409 986 158*
 
 *GPO Box 729, Hobart TAS 7001*
 
 *www.spiegelweb.com.au*
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
 
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Re: [WSG] First Attempt

2008-11-25 Thread Dave Lane
Bruce, I couldn't agree more - the road is littered with web
developers who don't know how to write XHTML or CSS.  We rescue their
customers frequently.

I'd say that, in order to learn how the web really works, write HTML and
CSS from scratch (yes, in a text editor).  To get started, find a site
on the web that you like and download its HTML and CSS and, for example,
make it XHTML 1.0-strict and CSS 2.1 compliant.

I recommend that you steer well clear of systems that offer to
simplify the web development process by hiding it from you.  Web
developers using those learn how to use that particular tool, but not
the web.  There're way too many of the latter.

Of course, there are some who say that hand coding websites is too
inefficient... but the way to make hand coding more efficient *isn't* to
use Dreamweaver or [insert your favourite WYSIWYG HTML editor here].

The way to make it work is to stop writing static HTML sites.  Instead
use one of the many freely available open source CMS frameworks and
simply hand code the templates for them once (making hand coded changes
for other customer sites as required).  That's what we do with Drupal.

The static web, other than as a teaching tool, is dead.  Yep, poked it
with a stick.  Dead. :)

Cheers,

Dave


Bruce wrote:
 
 Andrew November 24, 2008 10:59 AM
 
 
 On Nov 24, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Kate wrote:

 Wow! You hand code
 For now, and I think, the foreseeable future, this is still the only
 way available if you want to get it right...

 ...although its a long road
 Yes it is! But worth it, and if you start simply, and follow the
 excellent advice that others here have offered, I think you'll find
 it's quite easy to find your way, and to find others who will be
 happy to help when the going gets tough.

 Good luck!
 ***
 
 12 years ago on asking advice in starting down this road, a very wise
 engineer told me,
 Always code by hand. Use notepad or similar...
 
 While that was a difficult undertaking, it is the best advice I have had.
 I still use a basic editor on occasion, one such as cute html or similar
 is actually fine. Everyone has their fav, and that's ok, as long as it
 doesn't do everything for you and one learns nothing.
 
 But I have developed a system and basic web standards template system
 that works, so I have many examples of what I use all the time for
 clients set in new templates.
 
 Now I mostly work with a CMS such as ExpressionEngine and have developed
 a Web Standards template system that I modify as needed for all my clients.
 
 I firmly believe that reinventing the wheel for every site is not the
 best practice. And that browser hacks
 may be sometimes required. A lot of the time not, and we may end up
 using them to save time.
 
 When one gets a solid foundation and understanding that hand coding
 offers, one is never stuck in understanding the underlining principles
 and what is wrong when things just don't work as expected.
 
 I don't know why it don't work, dreamweaver did it isn't the way to
 impress clients! lol
 
 Best viewed in anything you want is a good label to apply to your
 sites, and perhaps what Web Standards is all about.
 
 Good luck, do it the hard way and you will know the road well.
 
 Bruce Prochnau
 bkdesign solutions
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [WSG] First Attempt

2008-11-25 Thread Dave Lane
Actually, Michael

Michael MD wrote:
 I would not recommend this for sites on shared servers unless they
 really do need a full-featured CMS.
 Speed is important .. why add bloat if its not needed?
 
 A mysql server in a typical ISP shared hosting environment often
 struggles to handle a large number of statements per second
 from hundreds of sites  ..  especially when some of the sites are being
 hit hard by crawlers.
 ..most off-the-shelf CMS do way too many lookups to show even a simple page
 
 Drupal, Wordpress and Joomla are very bad in this regard (doing around
 15-40 mysql lookups for each page!)
  ... Xoops seems better with its file-based caching but may still be
 overkill in a lot of cases.

Hmmm - this has not been my experience with Drupal...  With caching
turned on, the database queries are close to 0 for any given page, and
frankly, as a hosting provider, I can tell you with some certainty that
a) 15-40 queries per page is tiny, and will be handled in 0.0001 seconds
 in most cases, and b) we have servers with 100 active Drupal sites,
many doing 10s of GB of traffic per month, and their performance is
sub-second for nearly all pages, and certainly for all pages viewed by
anonymous users (i.e. the functional equivalent to static pages) thanks
to smart caching...

 A lot of this waste comes from storing stats in mysql, looking up user
 data, etc ...
 (and in some cases attempting to use mysql even for caching! bad.. bad..
 bad..)

I'm not sure I agree with you at all on this one.

 If you are not using user logins then why do all those extra lookups?

So that the customer can change her own content... she doesn't need to
allow logins for anyone other than administrators.  A decent CMS will
cache pages to the extent that you'd be hard pressed to get
substantially faster performance from static pages.

 I think part of the problem might be that a lot of  CMS developers are
 not testing on busy shared servers or high-traffic sites.
 (they are probably only testing on dedicated servers where they have
 mysql to themselves and the bottlenecks might be elsewhere)

Again, my experiences create a far different impression.

 I'm not going to tell people to spend extra cash for a dedicated server
 if all they want is a few simple static pages.

If all you want (and all you're *ever* going to want) is a few static
pages, that's fine, but it's also then not a problem to hand code the
XHTML and CSS.   If your site is going to grow, then you might as well
put it into a CMS from the start.  The performance overhead for a CMS
like Drupal is tiny.  By all means use Dreamweaver as a syntax aid (as
suggested by Blake) if you can't remember these things or are a really
slow typist (although I can't recommend enough taking the time to learn
how to touch type - you'll never regret it)... :)

Dave

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Re: [WSG] Which is read first? Scripts or Styles?

2008-11-24 Thread Dave Hall
On Mon, 2008-11-24 at 10:24 -0500, Brett Patterson wrote:
 I have no idea why, but for some reason I cannot remember which is
 read first! Are scripts or styles read first?

As others have mentioned, they are read in the order they occur in the
document.

  And which is the recommended order to list them? Styles or Scripts
 first?

Yahoo's performance best practice guide recommends styles in the head
and scripts as the last thing before the /body in a document. See
http://developer.yahoo.com/performance/rules.html#css_top for more info.

Cheers

Dave



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RE: [WSG] Web governance

2008-11-23 Thread Dave Hall
On Mon, 2008-11-24 at 16:58 +1100, Tony Paterson wrote:
 Ladies and Gents 
 
 I am seeking JV partners for some of our company’s websites
 
 If you have any interest please call or email me

And how is that even vaguely related to web standards, let alone the
question posed?

None of your site validate, and they all have their underwear showing
[1], so I suspect you are looking in the wrong place for partners.

In future please keep your spam to yourself.

Cheers

Dave

[1]
http://www.zeldman.com/2008/11/07/is-your-websites-underwear-showing/



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[WSG] Re: Some links for light reading (11/11/08)

2008-11-11 Thread Dave Hall
On Tue, 2008-11-11 at 22:33 +1100, russ - maxdesign wrote:

 The Ethics of Quick Backlinking Strategy
 http://monsterboxpro.com/2008/11/7/high-page-rank-30-minutes-simple-backlinking-strategy-guaranteed
 
 Is your (website¹s) underwear showing?
 http://www.zeldman.com/2008/11/07/is-your-websites-underwear-showing/

I don't know if anyone else picked this up, but link #1 has the problem
described in link #2.  I wonder if the positioning in the list was
intentional :)

Cheers

Dave



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Re: [WSG] Question on servers and Email campaign

2008-11-11 Thread Dave Hall
On Wed, 2008-11-12 at 11:53 +1100, Luke Hoggett wrote:
 Hmm, 
 
 strange that they could not write software that either:
 a) could be installed with out requiring root access, say a restricted
 user account specifically for this software
 or
 b) they can't provide you with instructions how to do it yourself.
 

By the sounds of things they are a spam list vendor so they need to be
beaten with a clue stick anyway.

There is only one person who gets any kind of shell access on my servers
- thats me.  Clients get restricted sftp if they really need it - and
can justify it to me.

If your client insists on getting something like this done, set them up
with a box from slicehost.com or a mediatemple.net DV server.  Then they
can give root access to the box and if they are spamming people the rest
of your clients don't their mail blacklisted too.  Best get the client
to sign up for the service so if they get booted they are the ones
liable for any charges.

If your client doesn't understand the implications of the request, then
you are probably best off without them.

Cheers

Dave

 Luke
 
 
 Graphics  Web Designing, LLC wrote: 
  I am sorry to ask this question but I am very curious as to how others feel 
  about this.
  
  I have a client that is purchasing E-mail listings from a company called 
  expedia mail and I
  Was called and asked for my server's root access information so that they 
  can download their
  Software onto my server for my clients email campaign.
  
  I refuse to give anyone access to MY server let alone my root access.
  
  Am I being rude and uncooperative on this or am I right?
  
  According to the lady I spoke with she claims that I am uncooperative and 
  that they have many
  Companies give out there root access information to their servers.
  
  I just can NOT put my other clients at risk and give some other company 
  access to my server 
  Where they have full access to my server and all of my clients and my 
  servers information and in 
  Addition they can do as they please once I give them my root access 
  information.
  
  Again, I would like to thank all for reading this post and I do hope this 
  is not against WSG standards. 
  But I am really needing confirmation that I am not losing it and that I was 
  right in protecting
  My clients as well as my server.
  
  
  
  
  Sherri 
  Graphic’s  Web Designing, LLC
  (941)876-4609  (941)889-8336 Cell
   
  
  Have a great day.
  
  http://www.webgraphicdesigning.com
  
  
  
  

  
  
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Re: [WSG] Who are the Away on leave Notices from?

2008-11-05 Thread Dave Lane
Looking at list message headers, I see that it mentions Precedence:
list as do most widely used list managers like the open source
Majordomo and Mailman systems.  Other lists use Precedence: bulk.
According to RFC 3834, the Precedence header field is strictly not
recommended, but says that autoresponders (e.g.
out-of-office-notification (ooon) systems) may choose not to respond.

Smart ooon systems (like the open source vacation autoresponder
available on any Linux/UNIX server) don't send ooons to lists or other
bulk mail senders that identify themselves as such using the Precedence
header field, as it's more or less universally undesirable to do so
(just like the use of return receipts for list posts).

Unfortunately, it's clear that many subscribers on this list don't use
ooon services that recognise the list designation - perhaps they can
raise their games (especially given that the software required is
completely free for them to use).

Apparently even Microsoft Exchange is smart enough to avoid sending ooon
to messages flagged with the Precedence: bulk or list.  A brief survey
of Google indicates that Lotus Domino mail may not be, however...  not
sure about other widely used mail systems.

Regards,

Dave

Joe Ortenzi wrote:
 this would be a useful and important addition to the mailing guidelines
 I would have to say, yes.
 
 Joe
 
 On 06/11/2008, at 8:47 AM, Brett Patterson wrote:
 
 Oh. I have always just set mine up to not send out for specific e-mail
 addresses. Sorry, did not mean to exasperate the issue. I did not know
 it was one.

 On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Paul Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Just auto replies from list members away on leave (who have set
 their 'out of office' setting to 'on')

 It is annoying, but in saying that I'm probably guilty of it at
 times ;)


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 -- 
 Brett P.

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 Joseph Ortenzi
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 +61 (0)434 047 804
 http://www.typingthevoid.com
 http://twitter.com/wheelyweb
 http://www.linkedin.com/in/jortenzi
 Skype:wheelyweb
 
 http://au.movember.com/mospace/1714401
 
 
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Re: [WSG] Standards and Adobe Contribute

2008-11-02 Thread Dave Lane
I'm sorry, Mark, but that is not a winning strategy in business.

As a web developer, you *must* design for maintainability.  Anything
else is a disservice to both your business and your customer.  The
customer is not always right.  The customer hires you because they
perceive you to have expertise they don't, and they trust your skill and
judgement on their behalf.  If they don't have that respect for your
ability, they're not the right customer for you.  I'm not saying that
you should tell them their wrong, but you should explain the
shortcomings of the methods they request and explain the advantages of
the tools you've chosen...  if you can't do that then you probably
haven't thought very carefully about choosing tools.

Ultimately, a business must select its technologies (the smallest set
possible to do the job well), become expert in them, and then maintain
those skills for the length of their relationship with their customers.

I completely agree with Joe's statement - using an app like Contribute
is a step backwards in most cases, both for the customer and for the
web.  CMSs, if chosen wisely (and the open source ones are better than
anything proprietary, so it'd be foolish not to go down the open source
path), implemented by *knowledgeable* developers with an appreciation
for web and software best practice (e.g. standards compliance, source
code control, change control procedures, etc.) and the will to adhere to
it, with ongoing maintenance in mind.

Those who don't feel responsible for learning about and adhering to best
practice should look for another line of work.

The road is littered with the remains of web development companies who
tried to support whatever solution de jeur their customer specified.  If
you customer requires you to use their choice of technologies rather
than yours, my advice is to get a new customer.  That sort of customer
will make your life miserable and cost you money in the long run.

Cheers,

Dave

Mark Harris wrote:
 Joe Ortenzi wrote:
 Contribute is not about content management as much as it is about
 allowing an in-house web team to share tasks without a proper CMS
 deployed. Thus your coder can code and the content writer can write
 but it can be all wrapped within a team. This is, frankly, Web 1.0,
 and your time and their money is better served by getting a simple CMS
 deployed that meets with their scope and strategy and will be easier
 to manage for everyone, client included.

 
 With respect, this is so much bollocks.
 
 The manner of deployment is always the client's choice. If you can offer
 her something better, by all means offer, but it's arrogant to tell the
 client you have to do it this way.
 
 Many clients won't have an in-house web team - they'll have one person
 to whom maintaining the website is only 1/4 of their job. Some outfits
 are still coming to grips with how they should be using the web and need
 baby steps.
 
 While it's a designer's job to help educate them, you can't drag them
 kicking and screaming into something they're not ready for.
 
 Regards
 
 Mark Harris
 
 
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Re: [WSG] Standards and Adobe Contribute

2008-11-02 Thread Dave Lane
Hello Mark,

Mark Harris wrote:
 Dave, the business decision is not that of the web designer. While web
 design may be his business, it's not the business of his client.

If it's not the decision of the web developer, then I don't expect that
web developer to be around for long.

 As a web developer, you *must* design for maintainability.  Anything
 else is a disservice to both your business and your customer.  
 
 Not arguing, but it must also work for the client, otherwise you are
 merely building ongoing work for yourself, in doing the maintenance.
 Offer options, by all means, but the result *must* be within the
 client's capability set or it won't get used. How much value have you
 then added to the client's business by imposing your own ideas on their
 naivety?

I disagree here.  The developer provides support - the customer chooses
the developer based on that ability (assuming the customer isn't totally
naive, which is probably not a safe assumption), and values their
ability to provide that support.  The customer should *want* a developer
who focuses on the smallest possible set of technologies (that's not
*too* small to fulfil the requirements).  Otherwise the developer will
be likely to be stretched too far.

 The
 customer is not always right.  The customer hires you because they
 perceive you to have expertise they don't, and they trust your skill and
 judgement on their behalf.  If they don't have that respect for your
 ability, they're not the right customer for you. 
 
 Fine. Say so and get out, but if you take the job, you take the
 constraints and responsibilities that come with it.

Agreed.  It's the web developer's business decision in that case.  Those
who take any work that comes their way regardless of the technologies
specified reek of desperation... (which, ultimately, leads to lack of
respect from the customer)

 I'm not saying that
 you should tell them their wrong, but you should explain the
 shortcomings of the methods they request and explain the advantages of
 the tools you've chosen...  if you can't do that then you probably
 haven't thought very carefully about choosing tools.

 That's not what Joe was advising. What he said was:
 you should never let the client specify the technology,
 that's YOUR job The technology you decide to deploy should
 be a result of having defined the strategy and scope of a
 project and identified the resources for ongoing content
 and support.
 
 which is a pretty tall ask for a web designer, not to mention arrogant.
 Do you get your mechanic to tell you how to drive your car? He's far
 more experienced with vehicles than you, so he should know, right?

If my mechanic suggests that I alter the way I drive to reduce the
maintenance requirements and therefore cost of running my vehicle, and I
trust him/her, you better believe I'll listen.  I'd say it'd be a
foolish customer who didn't.

 Ultimately, a business must select its technologies (the smallest set
 possible to do the job well), become expert in them, and then maintain
 those skills for the length of their relationship with their customers.

 See, it's the whole become expert with them that's the problem. They
 don't have the desire to become expert in something that is a commodity
 to them. Many companies don't have web specialists on staff. If they're
 lucky, they have a librarian, who does records management, maybe a
 little DTP and gets stuff onto the web. They don't *want* a web designer
 on board, or they'd be hiring one instead of farming the work out to you.

Customers will become expert in whatever technology they're convinced is
best for them, and is well supported.  But that's not what I was talking
about in the above paragraph.

The business I was referring to was the web developer - if the web
developer isn't experienced with his/her tools, then s/he's a cowboy/girl :)

 If that's how they see it, that's their business. Myself, I'd try to get
 them to see that it's a major strategic part of their future business
 *but* if they won't go there, I'm going to build them something they
 feel comfortable with, with an outline of what it could become, if
 appropriate. I'm not going to push a company into Web 2.0 if they
 still believe a little man sits in the printer pushing out paper.

True, but those naive companies need to expect to pay for the privilege
of being educated.  And, being blank slates, they should be given the
technology that the *web developer* thinks is best, not the one they
happened to see on the self of Harvey Norman or on the infomercial page
of the Tuesday fun with computers section of their local mainstream
newspaper.

 I completely agree with Joe's statement - using an app like Contribute
 is a step backwards in most cases, both for the customer and for the
 web.  
 
 If it works for them, it's their call. A simple site set up by someone
 who knows what they're doing can be managed just fine with Contribute.
 It's not likely to win any

Re: [WSG] Accessibility - Scanning PDFs

2008-10-29 Thread Dave Hall
On Wed, 2008-10-29 at 16:32 +1100, Rae Buerckner wrote:
 PDF is an ISO standard and has been for some months, 
snip /

Whoops missed that bit of news - thanks for the update



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Re: [WSG] Accessibility - Scanning PDFs

2008-10-28 Thread Dave Hall
On Wed, 2008-10-29 at 14:39 +1000, Thiru Yoganathan wrote:
 Hi Guys,
 
  
 
 I am dealing with a very large website, with around 20 000 PDF files. 
 
  
 
 I want to test if these PDFs are Compliant with W3C standards. I know
 that some of these files will be I just want to find the ones which
 aren’t. 

The W3C doesn't publish the PDF specs.  That is done by Adobe.  Adobe is
in the process of making PDF an ISO standard.

As for PDF validators, google seems to find a few very ones.  I have no
idea if they are any good.

Also create a new message rather than replying to an existing thread
when you want to start a new discussion.

Cheers

Dave



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Re: [WSG] Accessible and cross browser online slide system

2008-10-21 Thread Dave Lane
Hello Diego,

I recommend you check out S5:
http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/10/18/ssup5sup-10/

I've used them on quite a few occasions and they work very well so long
as you're happy playing with HTML markup.

Cheers,

Dave

PS I suggest turning off email receipts on emails to mailing lists :)

Diego La Monica wrote:
 Hi guys,
 
   I’d like to inform you all that I’ve developed an alternative to
 “*HTML Slidy*” that claim to be accessible, cross browser and standard
 like it.
 
 The plus is that you can *listen the slides with Assistive Technologies*
 and produce a *remote presentation*: Students (Client) listen the slides
 while the Teacher (Server) leads them.
 
 All information regarding *JAST-A-Slide* are available on
 http://jastegg.it/jastASlide/ .
 
   I hope that will not be considered as spam, because I’m informing
 about a standard and compliant software solution.
 
 I will appreciate any kind of suggestion aimed to improve the quality
 and the performance of that script!
 
  
 
 Cheers!
 
  
 
 Diego La Monica
 
 Web 2.0 - Standards - Accessibility
 
 mobile: +39 3337235382 - skype: diego.la.monica
 
 web: http://diegolamonica.info - http://jastegg.it
 
  
 
  
 
 
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Re: [WSG] Drupal - Standards Compliant and Crossbrowser Dropdown Navigation Widget?

2008-10-20 Thread Dave Lane
To Susan and Jim,

Our core business is building sites with Drupal.  We focus on XHTML 1.0
strict compliance and are striving towards full adherence of the New
Zealand e-government web guidelines which cover accessibility, and
various other considerations.  We've found Drupal to be remarkably
pliable with regard to those changes.

Susan, the approach of altering modules that you described will
definitely cause you maintenance headaches.  I would encourage you to
learn as much as possible about Drupal's very sophisticated system of
both theme and functionality overrides (called hooks in the Drupal
world).

By judicious use of theme and module overrides and by building sites in
multi-site mode, you can achieve any sort of markup and form
alterations while simultaneously completely avoiding changes to Drupal
core code or 3rd party modules you might employ.  That makes future
updates of core and modules much much less painful.

Drupal also makes it easy to replace any interface text, either with
Drupal's full-blown internationalisation framework, or by using the
string replacement functionality introduced with Drupal 6.x (see your
settings.php file).

We (Egressive) actually chose Drupal as our core platform because of
it's community's surprisingly high awareness of web standards, and
because of the degree to which Drupal - by design - allows us to tweak
markup and user interface elements to comply with our preferred
standards.  It's an incredibly powerful, versatile system.

Hope that helps you.

Kind regards,

Dave

James O'Neill wrote:
 Susan,
 
 That give me an idea. I am just starting to learn PHP and Drupal so
 making changes on my own will be fun. I am looking forward to tacking some.
 
 Thanks,
 
 Jim
 
 
 
 
 I am currently working on a large Drupal project using lots of
 modules.   I have created my own Theme that is 508 compliant (and
 semantic) that I use to start with - headers, footers, content area
 titles, main site navigation  that is based off the Garland theme.
No problem there.
 
 Each module though that I work with I asses the code and then make
 modifications to the base files if necessary to be compliant, and
 most times it is necessary, though sometimes its only a couple of
 little things.   It's not hard to do, but later upgrades are going
 to be a b---  so I document every change hopefully to make it easier
 later on.
 
 It also depends on what Ajax functionality you choose to use, or
 not use.  The more you use, the less compliant it becomes.
 
 This is all so simplistic, don't know if any of it will help you.
 
 -- 
 Susan R. Grossman
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
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Re: [WSG] Drupal - Standards Compliant and Crossbrowser Dropdown Navigation Widget?

2008-10-20 Thread Dave Lane
Hi Susan,

Yes, some very useful modules are written by people sometimes don't have
a full appreciation of how they can take advantage of Drupal's
capabilities - and fair enough too (I'm sure we did that too, when we
started, and probably still do from time to time)...

Ideally, if you have to tweak a module to make it standards compliant,
etc. then you can create a diff (i.e. a patch - instructions on
drupal.org) of the module changes and submit it to the module maintainer
for consideration.  If the Drupal community deems the improvement
valuable, there's little reason to think it won't be wrapped into the
next release.  That way, you don't have to maintain the code yourself,
and you won't have problems with upgrades.

It's cool how open source works.

Cheers,

Dave

Susan Grossman wrote:
 
 
 Our core business is building sites with Drupal.  We focus on XHTML 1.0
 strict compliance and are striving towards full adherence of the New
 Zealand e-government web guidelines which cover accessibility, and
 various other considerations.  We've found Drupal to be remarkably
 pliable with regard to those changes.
 
 Susan, the approach of altering modules that you described will
 definitely cause you maintenance headaches.  I would encourage you to
 learn as much as possible about Drupal's very sophisticated system of
 both theme and functionality overrides (called hooks in the Drupal
 world). 
 
 
  cut
 
  
 
 Kind regards,
 
 Dave
 
 
 
 Thanks Dave for the input on hooks, which I have used in a few of the
 modules and they're real effective and I should've mentioned them.
 
 Unfortunately some of the modules I'm trying to use I find I still have
 to do some changing to.  I guess it's my lack of knowledge, but not all
 modules seem to be equal to me.  I'll take your suggestion and do more
 research and see how I can avoid this entirely, and I haven't done
 anything in multi-site mode. 
 
 
 -- 
 Susan R. Grossman
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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Re: [WSG] Drupal - Standards Compliant and Crossbrowser Dropdown Navigation Widget?

2008-10-20 Thread Dave Lane
Hi Susan,

Yes, some very useful modules are written by people sometimes don't have
a full appreciation of how they can take advantage of Drupal's
capabilities - and fair enough too (I'm sure we did that too, when we
started, and probably still do from time to time)...

Ideally, if you have to tweak a module to make it standards compliant,
etc. then you can create a diff (i.e. a patch - instructions on
drupal.org) of the module changes and submit it to the module maintainer
for consideration.  If the Drupal community deems the improvement
valuable, there's little reason to think it won't be wrapped into the
next release.  That way, you don't have to maintain the code yourself,
and you won't have problems with upgrades.

It's cool how open source works.

Cheers,

Dave

Susan Grossman wrote:
 
 
 Our core business is building sites with Drupal.  We focus on XHTML 1.0
 strict compliance and are striving towards full adherence of the New
 Zealand e-government web guidelines which cover accessibility, and
 various other considerations.  We've found Drupal to be remarkably
 pliable with regard to those changes.
 
 Susan, the approach of altering modules that you described will
 definitely cause you maintenance headaches.  I would encourage you to
 learn as much as possible about Drupal's very sophisticated system of
 both theme and functionality overrides (called hooks in the Drupal
 world). 
 
 
  cut
 
  
 
 Kind regards,
 
 Dave
 
 
 
 Thanks Dave for the input on hooks, which I have used in a few of the
 modules and they're real effective and I should've mentioned them.
 
 Unfortunately some of the modules I'm trying to use I find I still have
 to do some changing to.  I guess it's my lack of knowledge, but not all
 modules seem to be equal to me.  I'll take your suggestion and do more
 research and see how I can avoid this entirely, and I haven't done
 anything in multi-site mode. 
 
 
 -- 
 Susan R. Grossman
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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Re: [WSG] Drupal - Standards Compliant and Crossbrowser Dropdown Navigation Widget?

2008-10-20 Thread Dave Lane
Hello Susan,

If you're doing a lot of Drupal development, and you don't already have
it, I strongly recommend getting a copy of Pro Drupal Development by
John K. VanDyk - the 6.x version of the book is ISBN: 978-1-4302-0989-8
- there's also a previous version focusing on 5.x which is equally
indespensible for learning the drupal way of doing things.

Cheers,

Dave

Susan Grossman wrote:
 
 
 Our core business is building sites with Drupal.  We focus on XHTML 1.0
 strict compliance and are striving towards full adherence of the New
 Zealand e-government web guidelines which cover accessibility, and
 various other considerations.  We've found Drupal to be remarkably
 pliable with regard to those changes.
 
 Susan, the approach of altering modules that you described will
 definitely cause you maintenance headaches.  I would encourage you to
 learn as much as possible about Drupal's very sophisticated system of
 both theme and functionality overrides (called hooks in the Drupal
 world). 
 
 
 ... cut
 
  
 
 Kind regards,
 
 Dave
 
 
 
 Thanks Dave for the input on hooks, which I have used in a few of the
 modules and they're real effective and I should've mentioned them.
 
 Unfortunately some of the modules I'm trying to use I find I still have
 to do some changing to.  I guess it's my lack of knowledge, but not all
 modules seem to be equal to me.  I'll take your suggestion and do more
 research and see how I can avoid this entirely, and I haven't done
 anything in multi-site mode. 
 
 
 -- 
 Susan R. Grossman
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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Re: [WSG] Extra white line on the top of my list

2008-08-02 Thread dave
 
For Added Exposure For Your Site Please Visit The Links Below
http://www.inwithamillion.com
http://www.rankwithamillion.com
  - Original Message - 
  From: Nick Tomczek 
  To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 
  Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 8:36 PM
  Subject: Re: [WSG] Extra white line on the top of my list


  Michael,

  Your image has the line on it. It's not in your code.

  Nick


  On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 12:29 PM, Al Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

From: Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  I a dealing with a different issue.  I am just having above my menu list 
a time barely visable white line occurring.  Site XHTML and CSS both validate.  
Any ideas what to look for.  If you want to look it is at horowitzfamily.net.


#mainNav{
  position: relative;
  top: 17px;
}
#mainNav ul a.menu {
 position: relative;
 bottom: 5px;
}

In terms of CSS only (I can't see your markup), the properties cited above 
could be likely candidates. I won't ask you why you are positioning like that 
as it would be better to see a live test page.

Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Lightshow Magic



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  -- 
  Nicholas Tomczek
  Web Business Consulting
  Cell: (425) 750-0211


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Re: [WSG] Extra white line on the top of my list

2008-08-02 Thread dave
Yes it's your image images/button.png that has the white line

Dave

- Original Message - 
  From: Nick Tomczek 
  To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 
  Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 8:36 PM
  Subject: Re: [WSG] Extra white line on the top of my list


  Michael,

  Your image has the line on it. It's not in your code.

  Nick


  On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 12:29 PM, Al Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

From: Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  I a dealing with a different issue.  I am just having above my menu list 
a time barely visable white line occurring.  Site XHTML and CSS both validate.  
Any ideas what to look for.  If you want to look it is at horowitzfamily.net.


#mainNav{
  position: relative;
  top: 17px;
}
#mainNav ul a.menu {
 position: relative;
 bottom: 5px;
}

In terms of CSS only (I can't see your markup), the properties cited above 
could be likely candidates. I won't ask you why you are positioning like that 
as it would be better to see a live test page.

Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Lightshow Magic



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  Cell: (425) 750-0211


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[WSG] Survey on the Adoption of Web Standards

2008-07-09 Thread ROBINS, DAVE
Hello fellow members of the web standards group:

I'm a faculty member at Kent State University in Kent, Ohio in the US.

My colleague, Sanda Katila, and I are conducting research on the extent to
which web standards are being adopted into the design and development of web
sites, and we would very much appreciate it if you would take the time to
complete our survey.

By doing so, you will help us gain knowledge about the processes and
problems associated with adopting web standards into web design and
development practices. We can share this knowledge with management, clients
and other stakeholders to show them the importance and state-of-the-art of
web standards adoption. In addition, we can administer this survey on an
annual basis to compare with prior results to measure the changes in web
standards adoption.

We are really excited to find out what people are doing.

You will find the survey by clicking on the following link:

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=espUJiWK_2bExygsQP3vRjkQ_3d_3d

The survey itself takes between 20 and 30 minutes to complete.

The researchers will protect your confidentiality by leaving your names
unassociated with any data collection.

Please do not hesitate to contact us for preliminary results of the survey.
We will be distributing the results through publication channels and when we
do, we will contact various lists to alert subscribers to the publications.

Thanks for participating, should you decide to do so.

David Robins, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Information Architecture and Knowledge Management
Kent State University
drobins (at) kent.edu
phone: 330-672-5852
fax: 330-672-2118
http://faculty-l.slis

Sanda Katila, MFA
Associate Professor
Visual Communication Design
Kent State University


http://www.kent.edu/


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Re: [WSG] Css validation

2008-06-25 Thread Dave Lane
I'm assuming most of the hacks are for IE?  Why not just conditionally 
include them, i.e. unless the validator obeys IE policies, it won't even 
see the IE-specifi CSS.


Dave

Fuji kusaka wrote:

Hi anyone can help me out with validating my css?...

I cant pass validation because of some css hacks i used. Is there a way 
to hide those hacks when i validate it?


--
Fuji kusaka
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--
Dave Lane = Egressive Ltd = [EMAIL PROTECTED] = m: +64 21 229 8147
p: +64 3 9633733 = Linux: it just tastes better = nosoftwarepatents
http://egressive.com  we only use open standards: http://w3.org
Effusion Group Founding Member === http://effusiongroup.com


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Re: [WSG] html vs. html - neither.

2008-06-20 Thread Dave Lane
I must say that I find it quite alarming that any professional web 
developers believe that a CMS must produce URLs for dynamically 
generated pages (not files) which say .htm or .html on the end.


My colleagues and I have adopted sites built by such developers, and I 
can tell you that misconceptions like the necessity of .htm or .html 
suffices were only the tip of iceberg.


If a site is actually a legacy static site made up of files, then . 
might be relevant (although setting up webserver rules to abstract away 
file suffice is pretty trivial, and it's much nicer for URL readability 
and SEO), but nowadays if you're building a dynamic site on a decent 
CMS, adding the .html (never .htm - that demonstrates dubious taste in 
server OSs) to the end of URLs for dynamically generated content is 
painfully old school and, as the W3C and other posters have pointed out, 
quite unnecessary - sort of like a www on the front of a web URL is 
(or should be).


Dave

Rob Enslin wrote:

Hi peeps,

I recently started noticing that our CMS system generated .htm pages 
where previously the system produced .html pages. I questioned the 
support staff and was told that the W3C deemed .html as non-standard 
file extensions (or rather .htm were more-widely accepted as the standard)


Is this true? Any thoughts?

Cheers,

Rob

--
Rob Enslin
Blog: http://enslin.co.uk
Twitter: http://twitter.com/robenslin
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Dave Lane = Egressive Ltd = [EMAIL PROTECTED] = m: +64 21 229 8147
p: +64 3 9633733 = Linux: it just tastes better = nosoftwarepatents
http://egressive.com  we only use open standards: http://w3.org
Effusion Group Founding Member === http://effusiongroup.com


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Re: [WSG] Firefox 3 candidate

2008-06-18 Thread Dave Woods
I've downloaded Firebug 1.1 Beta and it seems to work fine with Firefox 3

http://getfirebug.com/releases/

Hope that helps.

- - - - -
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk


2008/6/18 kate [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

  I hear about so many goodies on my lists I tried to dl Firebug (if our
 people like it its got to be awesome...hahaahah) But FF said it had a
 problem and would not allow in FF3.
 Glad you mentioned Firebug Jason - thanks!
 Kate

 - Original Message -
 *From:* Jason Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 *Sent:* Wednesday, June 18, 2008 1:32 PM
 *Subject:* Re: [WSG] Firefox 3 candidate

 It will replace it even if you install into different directory. :-(
 Then it means you are not going to have your FireBug available to work
 with.
 FF3 is very nice and I am excited.
 Just can't wait for FireBug to become compatible with it as it is so
 crucial for us of course.

 Regards,

 Jason
 www.flexewebs.com/semantix

 On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 1:17 PM, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 Does anyone know if it will replace your version of Firefox 2, or will
 it run side by side?!

 Cheers


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Re: [WSG] IE8 beta's a nightmare

2008-04-29 Thread Dave Woods
Don't fix or change anything in your site to be compatible with a beta
version.

The beta version is available so that developers can report problems to
Microsoft so that any bugs can be fixed for the final release. By changing
your code now, you're likely to find that you'll need to change it again
when the final release of IE8 is made available.

If you're already getting a significant number of IE8 users (which is
probably unlikely) then do as Rahul suggests and use the meta tag to force
IE7 rendering mode.

Hope that helps?

Dave
--
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk



2008/4/29 Rahul Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 On 29-Apr-08, at 12:40 PM, Jens-Uwe Korff wrote:

  we just did some testing of our sites in IE8 beta and got some ahhhs and
  ohhhs - not because of its standard compliance, rather because all sites
  seem to be broken: logos disappeared, elements misplaced, Google maps
  blown up, etc.
 

 Dare I say:
 meta http-equiv=X-UA-Compatible content=IE=7 /

 Does that not give you enough time to fix the issues with the new layout
 engine and then remove it/set it to content=IE=8?

 Or have I misunderstood how IE works? I frequently do.

 Best,
  - Rahul.



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Re: [WSG] IE8 beta's a nightmare

2008-04-29 Thread Dave Woods
* I've said it many times, MS try to outdo the competition and invent
their own mad functions and methods of doing things. You have Mozilla that
are promoting a standard and you have MS who are following (to some extent)
the standard and also inventing their own.*

Maybe a few years ago but Microsoft are following standards much better
these days and pass the ACID2 test with IE8.
*
 What developer on this planet is going to take advantage of a feature
thats been put into IE and not Mozilla, or any other browser engine for that
matter. Thats like giving one user one thing and another user another.*

But that's exactly why Microsoft are having the problems that they are ;o) A
lot of developers DID take advantage of features of IE during the browser
wars and because so many intranet's and business critical applications now
rely on these systems, businesses can't upgrade for fear of breaking them,
hence the reason why IE6 is taking so long to disappear.

I fully believe that Microsoft are heading in the right direction though and
whilst I don't agree with everything that Microsoft have done in the past,
they are taking the right steps to improve the browser and are at least
listening to the developer community.

As I mentioned earlier though... Internet Explorer 8 beta 1 is NOT the final
release of the browser and it will hopefully have bugs fixed when the final
release hits the market. Use it for browsing the web, having a look at your
sites, using its new features and reporting bugs back to Microsoft but it
shouldn't be used for the production of websites just yet.

Thanks
Dave
- - - - -
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk




2008/4/29 James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Ha Ha, i like name inferior explorer. Maybe someone should set up the
 domain name and allow people to comment on I.E for MS to see.

 I've said it many times, MS try to outdo the competition and invent their
 own mad functions and methods of doing things. You have Mozilla
 that are promoting a standard and you have MS who are following (to some
 extent) the standard and also inventing their own.

 What developer on this planet is going to take advantage of a feature
 thats been put into IE and not Mozilla, or any other browser engine for
 that matter. Thats like giving one user one thing and another user
 another.

 They are going to slice their own heads off.

 I hate to get into the Unix vs. Windows debate but for reasons like this
 and others related to MS inventing their own standards, Linux will
 eventually take over. Didn't MS try to invent their own version of XML, or
 something like that? I remember seeing a petition in college about
 it.




 On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:35 AM, Sam Sherlock [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

  Ideas stuff and various work right off the bat with ff and opera
  tweaking ie can go on for weeks and often requires loads of compromises
 
  the list of issues with ie browsers hurts my noggin
 
  I can't see m$ using geko though (it would be admitting the competition
  is better) I wish they would, shame it would be better for everyone
 
 
  should be forever reffered to as inferior explorer :)
  - S
 
  2008/4/29 James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
   Microsoft should save themselves all the hassle and use the Geko
   engine. There IE still gets shipped with
   every version of Windows.
  
   They have created a nice operating system for general users and by
   changing their engine to an open source
   one is not going to decrease sales in their O/S.
  
   This isn't the end of the IE bugs. I can put my house on it there will
   be more to come.
  
   On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:04 AM, Sam Sherlock [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   wrote:
  
looks like another quagmire is about to open up;
   
funny how I still feel that I am getting over ie6
   
2008/4/29 Dave Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
   
Don't fix or change anything in your site to be compatible with a
 beta version.

 The beta version is available so that developers can report
 problems to Microsoft so that any bugs can be fixed for the final 
 release.
 By changing your code now, you're likely to find that you'll need to 
 change
 it again when the final release of IE8 is made available.

 If you're already getting a significant number of IE8 users (which
 is probably unlikely) then do as Rahul suggests and use the meta tag 
 to
 force IE7 rendering mode.

 Hope that helps?

 Dave
 --
 http://www.dave-woods.co.uk



 2008/4/29 Rahul Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 On 29-Apr-08, at 12:40 PM, Jens-Uwe Korff wrote:
 
   we just did some testing of our sites in IE8 beta and got some
   ahhhs and
   ohhhs - not because of its standard compliance, rather because
   all sites
   seem to be broken: logos disappeared, elements misplaced,
   Google maps
   blown up, etc.
  
 
  Dare I say:
  meta http-equiv=X-UA-Compatible

Re: [WSG] animated scroll

2008-04-24 Thread dave
 
Hi , You might want to try this.

http://www.quidascript.com/index.php?main_page=product_infocPath=59products_id=125
 I got this package it's cheap as chips and has hundreds of javascripts...

Regards Dave
  - Original Message - 
  From: Laert Jansen 
  To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 
  Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:50 AM
  Subject: [WSG] animated scroll



  Hello everyone. 

  I want to build some anchor to the top of the page using that kind of effect 
that the scroll is animated...I believe its javascriptdoes anyone have a 
tutorial or something like that that could help me?

  thanks a lot
  -- 
  Laert Jansen
  www.laertjansen.com

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Re: [WSG] Thumbnail Floats

2008-04-17 Thread Dave Woods
Personally, I'd use overflow on the container to clear the float's and then
add width: 100%; to apply layout for IE7 and below.

div#innerContainer ul{margin: 0; padding: 0;* width: 100%; overflow: hidden;
*}

Hope that helps.
Dave

- - - - -
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk


2008/4/17 Frederick Matzen [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 I'm pretty much an amateur at this myself but it looks to me like you did
 not use* .clearboth { clear: both; } *at the end of each row.


 On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Chris Kennon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Attempting to get the results crafted here:
 
  http://css.maxdesign.com.au/floatutorial/tutorial0407.htm
 
  With lli and p elements, but have run into a snag. Would a dashing
 standardista lend some CSS to the following template?
 
  http://working.bushidodeep.com/spring_2008/template.html
 
 
 
 
 
 
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 Frederick
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Re: [WSG] seo / standards question

2008-04-09 Thread Dave Woods
Go for the first option...

h2section title/h2
ul
liapage name 1/a/li
liapage name 2/a/li
...
/ul

Google won't give anymore weight as it'll simply dilute the weight of all
your h3 tags so only use them where they're relavant and where they are
actually heading up contnet.

I'd always advise creating your HTML for the users first and foremost using
semantic markup. By all means consider what keywords/phrases to use but
never abuse semantics in the hope that it'll benefit the search engines.

Hope that helps.



2008/4/9 kevin mcmonagle [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 hi,
 im generating a list of page links from my cms, its not really for a nav
 bar just a section of the site that has a number of related articles.

 im  using h2 for the over all list label but am wondering what to use for
 the list break tags.

 right now im using li with the title of each page like this.


 h2section title/h2
 ul
 liapage name 1/a/li
 liapage name 2/a/li
 ...
 /ul



 but im wondering if i should use h2's instead?

 would google give more importance to the h2s?
 plus it really is a list of page  headings so i guess semantically it
 could go either way right?


 so either:
 h2section title/h2

 h3apage name/a/h3
 h3apage name2/a/h3
 ...


 thanks in advance


 -kevin mcmonagle

 www.mcmonagledesign.com
 www.donegalimage.com








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Re: [WSG] Client cannot view website

2008-04-08 Thread dave
 
Hi Lyn,

I can see all the pages except facilities.html jumps out of frame and the pale 
green background disappears using IE 7 rest of site seems ok

All works well in FireFox and Netscape.. So it seems you have a problem with 
your header or css which could be causing it not to work correctly with IE 6

Regards

Dave...
  - Original Message - 
  From: Lynette Smith 
  To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 
  Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 9:00 AM
  Subject: [WSG] Client cannot view website


  I hope this post is allowed. Just had a call from a client to say he cannot 
see all of his website.  He does not seem very computer literate.  He says he 
can see the first bit ( header and the navigation bar underneath the header), 
 but below is just a green blank page. 

  I can see nothing wrong with the site which has been up for ages and am 
thinking it is his computer though I have no idea what could be wrong.  He uses 
IE.

  Is there anything I can get him to check.. Url is www.bourkebridgeinn.com.au

  Thanks

  Lyn
  www.westernwebdesign.com.au

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Re: [WSG] Rogue text appears in IE6.

2008-04-03 Thread Dave Woods
Try getting rid of the comments in your source code. I've not had chance to
investigate your code thoroughly but that's usually what causes the
duplicate character bug.

I'm sure that there are other fixes for it but I personally find that if
you've structured your markup correctly, indented nested elements and named
classes/ID's sensibly then you shouldn't really need to use comments anyway.

Cheers
Dave

http://www.dave-woods.co.uk


On 03/04/2008, Rob Enslin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I've recently built a website trying to move towards more
 standards-compliant code. After the delight at pushing the site live my
 world 'caved in' (a little over-dramatic maybe) this morning when a
 colleague noticed rogue 'ls. text some way down the home page.

 Live site: http://www.londoncalling2008.com
 Screen-grab in IE6: http://www.flickr.com/photos/doos/2384241027/

 Testing the site:

 IE7 - no problem
 FF2 - no problem
 Safari/PC - no problem
 Safari/Mac - no problem
 FF2/Mac - no problem

 ** IE6 - PROBLEM (http://www.flickr.com/photos/doos/2384241027/)

 Could anyone find an explanation for this?

 --
 Rob Enslin
 http://enslin.co.uk
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Re: [WSG] Any way to defeat legend styling problems in IE?

2008-02-28 Thread Dave Woods
I'm sure John won't mind me posting a link to his article on the subject...

http://www.tyssendesign.com.au/articles/css/legends-of-style/

Hope that helps.



2008/2/28 Cole Kuryakin [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Hello All -

 I've already spent a lot of time researching this and - from the threads
 I've read - there doesn't seem to be a solution for IE in particular.

 If you go here: http://www.crewasia.ph/index.php?cmd=s7,p2 in IE 6, you'll
 see that the question mark icon is held off of the left margin of the
 fieldset (and also displaying a small sliver of the fieldset's top border)
 which ISN'T as per design.

 If you look at the same page Firefox, this is the goal.

 As mentioned, my previous research has left me disheartened about a fix
 for
 IE... but then again, the posts I've been reading are well over a year
 old.

 Is there something I can do to the legend to make that question mark icon
 line up with the left border of the fieldset?

 Great appreciation, as always, in advance.

 Cole



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Re: [WSG] ie problem

2008-02-15 Thread Dave Woods
Looks like the double margin bug.

Try changing this...

#navMain ul li a
{ margin:43px 35px 0 0;
border:1px solid black;
float:right; display:block;
}

to this

#navMain ul li a
{ margin:43px 35px 0 0;
border:1px solid black;
float:right; display:inline;
}

Hope that helps.


On 15/02/2008, kevin mcmonagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi,
 Im frustrated with a margin difference in ie6.  Im modifying a zen cart
 install and didnt create the style sheets and dont have much control
 over the html.
 The problem  is the two links (log in and home) at the top right of the
 page header. Ive added The borders just so you can see the boxes.

 http://cart66.macdesign.eu/

 heres the rules:

 #navMainWrapper{margin-top:15px;
 background-image: url(../../../../images/header.jpg);
 background-repeat:no-repeat;
 background-position:0 -21px;
 _background-position:0 0;
 border:0px solid pink;
 height:65px;
 padding-top:0;
   margin-top:0;
 padding-bottom:0;

   }

 #navMain ul li a
 { margin:43px 35px 0 0;
 border:1px solid black;
 float:right; display:block;
 }

 /*i think the problem is related to this rule*/

   #navMain
 {
 border:1px solid pink;
 display:block;
 overflow:visible;
 margin-bottom:0; height:1%;

 }

   I've been trying to figure this out for a long time and need help.
 thanks
 kevin



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Re: [WSG] Fwd: navaigation list rendered bad in ie

2008-02-14 Thread Dave Woods
Hi Andrew,

As Thierry has pointed out, Zoom will fix this issue but you may want to
have a read of the following as it explains the reasons why...

http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html

For fix width layouts, I'd usually tend to fix this by providing a width (in
your case width: 216px; on the anchor will do the same job as the zoom) but
there's various methods of solving the haslayout issue.

Cheers
Dave
- - - - -
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk


On 14/02/2008, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  On Behalf Of Andrew WC Brown

 
  Here's an image to the problem
  http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5567/iefirefoxlistcb1.jpg
 
  Here's a link to the page
  http://dutchakscrap.com/about.html


 Hi Andrew,
 Try this:

 div.navigation a {zoom:1;}

 As a side note, I don't see a need for that DIV, you could go with the UL
 alone.


 --
 Regards,
 Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com






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Re: [WSG] Fwd: navaigation list rendered bad in ie

2008-02-14 Thread Dave Woods
That'll work for IE6 but haslayout also exists in IE7 therefore either zoom
or applying a width would be the best fix ;o)

- - - - -
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk


On 14/02/2008, aleagi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hello there,

 Try adding

 * html div.navigation a {height: 1%;}

 only for IE6...

 I know there's a lot of people that don't like conditional comments,
 but it can save A LOT of time.

 Best Regards,


 On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 7:29 AM, Dave Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
  Hi Andrew,
 
  As Thierry has pointed out, Zoom will fix this issue but you may want to
  have a read of the following as it explains the reasons why...
 
  http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html
 
  For fix width layouts, I'd usually tend to fix this by providing a width
 (in
  your case width: 216px; on the anchor will do the same job as the zoom)
 but
  there's various methods of solving the haslayout issue.
 
  Cheers
  Dave
  - - - - -
  http://www.dave-woods.co.uk
 
 
 
 
  On 14/02/2008, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On Behalf Of Andrew WC Brown
  
   
Here's an image to the problem
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5567/iefirefoxlistcb1.jpg
   
Here's a link to the page
http://dutchakscrap.com/about.html
  
  
   Hi Andrew,
   Try this:
  
   div.navigation a {zoom:1;}
  
   As a side note, I don't see a need for that DIV, you could go with the
 UL
   alone.
  
  
   --
   Regards,
   Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
  
  
  
  
  
  
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 --
 Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes
 -
 Nosce te ipsum
 -
 http://sapiensdc.com.br



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Re: [WSG] hello

2008-02-12 Thread Dave Woods
Also, think about the important factors first when creating a website. Build
something that satisfies the requirements, provides the function/content
required, is accessible, usable and uses the latest web standards and if the
site falls into the web2.0 category then so be it, if not then really who
cares?


On 12/02/2008, russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Have a read of these for the official definitions or descriptions of web
 2.0:

 http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/oreilly/tim/news/2005/09/30/what-is-web-20.html
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_2

 A good slide show on the topic:
 http://www.andybudd.com/presentations/dcontruct05/

 Or, sit down with some popcorn and watch a web 2.0 video:
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LzQIUANnHc

 HTH
 Russ


 on 12/2/08 11:07 PM, Gitanjali at wrote:

 Hello all!

 Can anybody help me in web 2.0 please



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Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-02-01 Thread Dave Woods
A better approach would be to switch to a more standards compliant browser
like Firefox/Opera or Safari ;o)

http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/
http://www.opera.com/
http://www.apple.com/safari/ (still appears to be in beta for windows
though).

If you're a web developer/designer, you should have those three plus IE6 and
7 for testing anyway ;o)

If you don't have multiple systems to test on, then you can install multiple
versions of IE by using...

http://tredosoft.com/Multiple_IE

Hope that helps.


On 01/02/2008, kate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Oh dear me lol

 I am still on IE6 and so I guess jump a version.
 Kate
 Bichon Frisé
 http://jungaling.com/kynismarmissmillie/index.php
 Borneo
 http://julienne.wordpress.com/



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Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy

2008-01-29 Thread Dave Woods
I just like to ask if it might be possible to turn off this version
freezing thing in IE8, maybe with some markup or something. I agree
with Drew Mclellan when he said in his blog that old browsers must die.

Using an HTML5 doctype will remove the need to include the meta tag. Using
edge within the meta tag will also set IE8 to use the rendering engine for
whatever the current version of IE is... what impact this will have on
development remains to be seen as I don't think we can really comment until
we've seen it in action.

Is Microsoft going to pay me my time to add another tag to the head of
every
page on every clients site I've ever done?
NOT
So it won't happen, why should we spend even more time on MS screwups?

Or am I misreading all this?

You're misreading it slightly. Presumably you'll have tested your websites
in IE7? Therefore when IE8 is released, all these websites should render
exactly the same as IE7 by default, IE8 will use IE7's rendering engine
unless you use one of the methods of triggering IE8 standards mode.

I dont think adding another tag makes much sense.. I want my site
accessible to lots of browsers .. not just freaking IE

We'll need to support IE7 for a while yet anyway so will things change that
much other than for the mean time just leaving out the meta tag and just
ensuring that things work in the IE7 rendering engine (once IE6 users have
ceased to exist).










On 29/01/2008, varun krishnan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I dont think adding another tag makes much sense.. I want my site
 accessible to lots of browsers .. not just freaking IE

 Varun,
 http://varunkrish.com

 On Jan 29, 2008 6:41 PM, Bruce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Is Microsoft going to pay me my time to add another tag to the head of
  every
  page on every clients site I've ever done?
  NOT
  So it won't happen, why should we spend even more time on MS screwups?
 
  Or am I misreading all this?
 
  Bruce
  bkdesign
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Peter Mount [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
  Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 7:18 AM
  Subject: [WSG] This IE8 controversy
 
 
   Hi
  
   I just like to ask if it might be possible to turn off this version
   freezing thing in IE8, maybe with some markup or something. I agree
  with
   Drew Mclellan when he said in his blog that old browsers must die.
  
   --
   Peter Mount
   Web Development for Business
   Mobile: 0411 276602
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   http://www.petermount.com
  
  
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Re: [WSG] Background images versus image

2008-01-25 Thread Dave Woods
What are the chances of that happening? I would think it would be very
slim wouldn't it?

You'd be surprised... I know a few dialup users who browse with images
disabled to speed up loading times but leave CSS and JavaScript on so that
the presentation and any enhanced functionality is still available.

I agree that these types of users are in the minority but they do exist.



On 25/01/2008, Likely, James A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 From all of the examples that I have seen this is the one that
 accommodates most users.

 How would a screen reader read this option? Has any one tested something
 similar to the example that I found?

 Thanks again for the help.

 James

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On Behalf Of Christian Snodgrass
 Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 1:03 PM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Background images versus image

 That isn't bad, but if you have Javascript and CSS, but no images, it
 fails completely.

 Likely, James A. wrote:
  Thanks for the emails. Some things I didn't think of but will from now

  on. I have been doing some reading and looking at options and found
  this example.
 
  http://www.chriserwin.com/scripts/crir/
 
  What are your thoughts on this approach?
 
  To me it looks pretty user friendly.
 
  Please let me know as this is new to me.
 
  Thanks
 
  James
 
 
 
  *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Dave Woods
  *Sent:* Wednesday, January 23, 2008 8:59 AM
  *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
  *Subject:* Re: [WSG] Background images versus image
 
  The first question I'd ask is why not just use check boxes instead of
  trying to replicate them? If you mark them up correctly then there's
  really no better accessible method than using the correct element as
  it was meant.
 
  If you go down this route then you're likely to create all kinds of
  problems for yourself... what happens when users don't have css
  available (mobile devices), images disabled (dialup users) or are
  using screenreaders.
 
  If you want to change the appearance then I'd use JavaScript to
  enhance the existing check boxes but for those user agents that don't
  support JavaScript or have it disabled you should have the fall back
  of regular forms.
 
  Hope that helps.
 
  - - - - -
  http://www.dave-woods.co.uk
 
 
  On 23/01/2008, *Likely, James A.*  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Hello,
 
  I am working on a new site for a client and need some thoughts on
  a problem that I have.
 
  I am making a list with clickable boxes (like input boxes) that
  have a checked, disabled and clickable state. My question is, what
  would work best. Using background images or adding images to the
  code.
 
  The reason I ask is
 
  1) If I use images, we can add alt text to describe what function
  the images have. This would help with screen readers and people
  with disabilities.
 
  2) Background images keep the code clean but wonder about the alt
  text and how screen readers and people with disabilities would
  read the site. Is there a way to imitate the alt for background
  images?
 
  You can see an example of both ways at:
 
  Using images: _http://wisconsin.joekiosk.com/list/list.html_
  Using background images:
  _http://wisconsin.joekiosk.com/list/list2.html_
 
  Let me know your thoughts and what you think would work best. I
  love the background images as the code is clean, but has any one
  done any testing to see how this would work for screen readers or
  do you have suggestions on how to make it more accessible?
 
  Thanks for the help.
 
  James
 
 
 
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 --

 Christian Snodgrass
 Azure Ronin Web Design
 http://www.arwebdesign.net/ http://www.arwebdesign.net
 Phone: 859.816.7955

Re: [WSG] Background images versus image

2008-01-23 Thread Dave Woods
The first question I'd ask is why not just use check boxes instead of trying
to replicate them? If you mark them up correctly then there's really no
better accessible method than using the correct element as it was meant.

If you go down this route then you're likely to create all kinds of problems
for yourself... what happens when users don't have css available (mobile
devices), images disabled (dialup users) or are using screenreaders.

If you want to change the appearance then I'd use JavaScript to enhance the
existing check boxes but for those user agents that don't support JavaScript
or have it disabled you should have the fall back of regular forms.

Hope that helps.

- - - - -
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk


On 23/01/2008, Likely, James A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Hello,

 I am working on a new site for a client and need some thoughts on a
 problem that I have.

 I am making a list with clickable boxes (like input boxes) that have a
 checked, disabled and clickable state. My question is, what would work best.
 Using background images or adding images to the code.

 The reason I ask is

 1) If I use images, we can add alt text to describe what function the
 images have. This would help with screen readers and people with
 disabilities.

 2) Background images keep the code clean but wonder about the alt text and
 how screen readers and people with disabilities would read the site. Is
 there a way to imitate the alt for background images?

 You can see an example of both ways at:

 Using images: 
 *http://wisconsin.joekiosk.com/list/list.html*http://wisconsin.joekiosk.com/list/list.html
 Using background images: 
 *http://wisconsin.joekiosk.com/list/list2.html*http://wisconsin.joekiosk.com/list/list2.html

 Let me know your thoughts and what you think would work best. I love the
 background images as the code is clean, but has any one done any testing to
 see how this would work for screen readers or do you have suggestions on how
 to make it more accessible?

 Thanks for the help.

 James

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Re: [WSG] Where did I come from?

2008-01-18 Thread Dave Woods
I completely agree with most of the comments so far. Why create
functionality that is simply replicating the functionality of a browser?

There was an article on text resizing a while ago that I'm sure most people
are already aware of by Roger Johansson...

http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200709/scrap_text_resize_widgets_and_teach_people_how_to_resize_text/

I'd consider text resizing quite advanced compared to using the back button
so I personally think that trying to recreate this kind of functionality is
actually a step backwards in trying to educate our users.

- - - - - - - - - -
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk



On 18/01/2008, David Dorward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 On 18 Jan 2008, at 17:23, Christian Snodgrass wrote:

  You shouldn't always assume that they are just trying to replace
  the back button.

 As assumptions go, when they say so I can create a button to go back
 to it..., it is a pretty safe one.

  And, not everyone knows about the back button. Don't assume...

 The back button should be one of the very first things people learn
 about when they are introduced to the web. If you suspect that your
 users do not, then creating a custom control that works only for your
 site instead of educating them about the software they use, is doing
 them a disservice.

 Additionally, an in page control marked back causes confusion since
 users don't know if it will act in the same way as their back button
 or go forward to the previous URL (which it is will alter the effect
 on the normal back button).

 --
 David Dorward
 http://dorward.me.uk/
 http://blog.dorward.me.uk/




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Re: [WSG] Definition List appropriate for FAQ?

2008-01-17 Thread Dave Woods
Hi,

Personally, I'd use heading's for the questions and paragraphs for the
answers but that's down to my own preference and have seen it done a variety
of ways.

Cheers
Dave

- - - - - - - -
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk


On 17/01/2008, Mike at Green-Beast.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hello Christian,

  I've been trying to decide which is more semantically correct for an FAQ
  [...]
  definition list is probably the most appropriate

 My vote is in favor of a DL. I feel it is absolutely the most appropriate
 element to use in such a case.

 Cheers.
 Mike Cherim
 http://green-beast.com

 Join Accessible Web Developers on Facebook:
 http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=7010678585





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Re: [WSG] Colors for web design

2007-12-14 Thread Dave Woods
Hi,

Principles of Beautiful Web Design is worth a read, not only for the
information on colours and the theory behind is but there's also plenty of
other useful design information especially for web developers who aren't
from a design background.

http://www.principlesofbeautifulwebdesign.com/

There's also plenty of colour combination websites about, only have this one
in my bookmarks though...

http://www.colorcombos.com/

Hope that helps.

Dave

- - - - -
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk

On 14/12/2007, Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Anyone know a good online resource or book that discusses how to decide
 the best color combinations for use on the web.

 --
 Michael Horowitz
 Your Computer Consultant
 http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
 561-394-9079



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Re: [WSG] IE layout glitch on Blog

2007-11-14 Thread Dave Woods
Looks like it's more likely to do with your use of the pre tag.

Firefox is allowing the content to overflow into the other container whilst
IE6 won't.

The easiest fix would probably be to use some kind of overflow: auto; in
that section of the page along with a width to force a scrollbar on any
content that is wider than the left column.

Hope that helps.

Dave
- - - - - - - - - -
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk


On 14/11/2007, Simon Cockayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi,

 I am not the owner of  http://www.shield.on.ca/Blog/index.php ...

 But...I am puzzled as to why the navigation sidebar drops down below the
 blog content in IE 6...but appears fine and dandy (top right immediately
 below the header) in Firefox 2.

 Any ideas?

 I am thinking it is an IE double padding/margin type
 error...yes...no...yes??

 Simon

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Re: [WSG] Idiot's guide to JavaScript

2007-11-13 Thread Dave Woods
I'm in a similar position and recently bought the Simply JavaScript book
from SitePoint... it's easy to understand and all the books I've seen of
theirs in the past have been up to date and use the latest standards so I
presume I'm learning the correct way as apposed to following out of date and
bad practice tutorials online.

http://www.sitepoint.com/books/javascript1/?SID=8a6e5ef267535b16d9b4f5c5b54a008d

Hope that helps.

Dave
- - - - - - - - - -
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk

On 13/11/2007, Kevin Lennon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Rob Mason wrote:

 Hi guys,

 Am comfortable with HTML/CSS and accessibility in general, but struggle
 with JavaScript. I'm not a developer by trade, am a business type (sales and
 marketing) so most oft he stuff is well over my head. I am looking for a
 really basic, plain English guide to JavaScript. Either on or offline will
 do.

 Any thoughts?

 Thanks in advance

 Rob

 --
 Rob Mason
 t/a Sponge Project
 www.spongeproject.co.uk
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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 --

 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG Free Edition.
 Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.31/1128 - Release Date: 11/13/2007 
 11:09 AM


  You may want to check out the book called  Javascript for the world wide
 web  visual quickstart guide.
 http://www.amazon.com/JavaScript-World-Wide-Web-Negrino/dp/0321423348/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1194984888sr=8-1

 That is not an affiliate link but amazon has it for $12.99 plus shipping
 there.



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Re: [WSG] Social Networking Site Software / Script

2007-11-09 Thread Dave Woods
Vanilla is definitely the most standards compliant forum software I've seen.

If you wanted to go down the social networking/bookmarking site route then
there's some software called pligg which I believe the likes of digg and
sphinn use.

http://www.pligg.com/


On 09/11/2007, Rahul Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 09-Nov-07, at 5:04 PM, Web Dandy Design wrote:
  Discussion Forums.
 Vanilla [1] seems to be an interesting project, which aims to be a
 standards-based discussion forum. I seem to remember having little
 difficulty in installing the software, though I haven't experimented
 with styling it yet.

 Best,
   - Rahul.

 [1] http://getvanilla.com/


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Re: [WSG] Request possible?

2007-11-06 Thread Dave Woods
Hi Michael,

The overall structure is probably how I'd tackle this but I do have a
couple of suggestions.

1 - You don't really need the div for part4 as this seems to just be
applying a margin which could be applied directly to #article.

2 - Within the part4infosmall div I wouldn't use a definition list
for this as it simply looks like another sub heading and then a
paragraph.

I presume this is part of a page and is just to demonstrate the layout
but there are other issues like no doctype or character set and the
your using a heading 3 without 1 or 2 present but I presume this would
be corrected in the final page? Obviously this would also include the
inline style that you have for the margin on the body.

Also you're declaring font-size in pixels but you need to use either
em or a percentage value if you want the page to be accessible.

You might find this useful to convert your sizes
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk/?p=79

Other than that though, it's a relatively simple layout so should only
really need a few div containers and then the relevant heading's
applied along with paragraphs of text.

Hope that helps.

Cheers
Dave

- - - - - - - - - -
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk


On 06/11/2007, Michael Vogt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello all.

 I received an request from a client, which I am not sure how to
 implement correctly. Would you please be so kind to have a quick look
 at it, and let me know what you think?

 A first implementation can be found here:
 html: http://michaelvogt.eu/flow.html
 css: http://michaelvogt.eu/flow.css

 At the bottom, of the page, you see the photoshop mock up.

 I have 2 questions:
 - is there a better way to do the html structure for this?
 - is there a way  that only 2 lines of text are allowed above the
 small box? The other text should flow automatically around the box.


 Thanks a lot,
 Michael Vogt


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Re: [WSG] CSS/Accessibility question

2007-11-01 Thread Dave Woods
Hi James,

I'd always create a site and content so that it initially works and
all the content can be reached using just HTML. It certainly won't
look all that pretty but by making sure that everything works fine
before you add CSS or JavaScript then you're ensuring that the site
will be usable and accessible for any user agents that don't support
them.

Once this is in place, add CSS to spice up the presentation and then
feel free to add any JavaScript to make the functionality and
behaviour easier or to add a few dazzles but this shouldn't effect the
core functionality of the site.

The following article is a really good read and explains the ideas behind this

http://accessites.org/site/2007/02/graceful-degradation-progressive-enhancement/

I suspect that you're thinking of using JavaScript to actually display
content so you need to ask yourself, how will users on mobile devices
of using a text browser read this content?

Hope that helps.

Dave

- - - - - - - - - -
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk



On 01/11/2007, Likely, James A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 Hello,

 I am pretty new to this group but have been seeing all of the useful emails
 that have been sent over the past month and thought I would try my luck.

 I am working on a feature story box.  I am trying to develop this using web
 standards but since this is fairly new to me, I thought that I would email
 and see if anyone has any suggestions on how to improve. My goal is to make
 this as accessible as possible to users with disabilities.

 Note that there is no JavaScript yet, this is just the demo.  Once the
 JavaScript is in place, when the user rolls over the link, the main
 background image would change as well as the selected state of the link.

 http://internetworks.ca/james/feature/

 Any feedback is welcome, good or bad!

 Thanks for taking the time to help!

 James
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Re: [WSG] Rounded Courners .... Your Take

2007-10-31 Thread Dave Woods
Hi Mike,

I was considering using span's instead of div's for my example but
was a little torn between the two as I'd usually use span's for
their inline purpose in a block of text or for styling something
within an inline element (when obviously a div would be invalid).

I suppose in either case it's using the tag for something that it
wasn't really meant for and as someone mentioned earlier is being
misused slightly due to lack of a better alternative using CSS2.1

Your example does highlight the fact that I could probably do away
with the topleft div in any case though as this could be applied to
container div :o)

Thanks
Dave

- - - - - - - - - -
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk


On 31/10/2007, Mike at Green-Beast.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I can offer this simple method:
 http://mikecherim.com/experiments/css_smart_corners.php

 I prefer spans over divs because divs do have semantic value as divisions
 whereas span are like puffs of air in that they serve as nothing more than a
 hook for styles, etc. I'd rather offer a span to accept the background than
 a full div.

 That's my take on it anyway.

 Cheers.
 Mike Cherim
 http://green-beast.com/





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Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?

2007-10-30 Thread Dave Woods
As far as I'm aware, it's not something that Google will automatically
ban a site for anyway but if it is being used for black hat tactics
then the site is open to being reported by anyone (possibly a
competitor) which Google may then do a manual check of and ban the
site if they deem the site to be breaking their terms of use.

If display: none; is being used for a legitimate purpose then I
wouldn't worry about it but as I mentioned earlier, it can have a
negative impact on accessibility so as with most things, it depends
how and why you're using this method.

Thanks
Dave
- - - - - - - - - -
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk



On 30/10/2007, Alexander Gounder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi everyone,

 The Fact is that SEOs use this CSS feature (display:none) for cloaking which
 is a Black Hat SEO technique.

 Further the whole idea of you showing something(h1-3 tags filled with
 Keywords) to Google or any Search bot and hiding these from you end user
 speaks very bad about your intentions...

 Instead if your using this for some other purpose and the effect of this can
 be viewed by the end user then its not considered cloaking and google is
 quite intelligent to know that but the same can't be said about other search
 engines.

 So you need to decide on this depending on where your traffic is coming
 from.

 Thanks
 Alexander,
 Web Designer and SEO in Mumbai, India
 http://www.ecreeds.com

 On 10/29/07, Simon Cockayne  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hi,
 
  I am sure I read that CSS's display: none has a detrimental on SEO.
 
  Is this true* or did I dream it?
 
  *To clarify...I am keen to know if it is true that there is a
  detrimental impact...not whether it is true that I read it or not.
 
  Cheers,
 
  Simon
 
 
 
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Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?

2007-10-29 Thread Dave Woods
It depends what you're using it for. If it's for black hat search
engine tactics which will contain keywords then yes it's bad as it can
get you completely banned from Google.

If it's for hiding an element of the page which you'll then be
displaying using either CSS or JavaScript then it's not neccesarily
bad for search engines but can be bad for accessibility as screen
readers will ignore it so you'd be better off using negative text
indent or negative absolute positioning.

It depends on what situation you're using it for but yes it can be bad
if used wrongly.

Thanks
Dave

- - - - - - - - - -
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk


On 29/10/2007, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I highly doubt that presentational styles will effect SEO.

 When you use display:none you are not removing the
 content from the source, you are just hiding it from
 users viewing the web page.

 If you was to remove the element from the source using
 DOM that would be different.

 James


 On 10/29/07, Tony Crockford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  On 29 Oct 2007, at 15:46, Simon Cockayne wrote:
 
   Hi,
  
   I am sure I read that CSS's display: none has a detrimental on SEO.
  
   Is this true* or did I dream it?
  
   *To clarify...I am keen to know if it is true that there is a
   detrimental impact...not whether it is true that I read it or not.
 
  Google specifically caution against hiding text with CSS:
 
 
 http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=66353
 
  is that what you meant?
 
 
 
 
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Re: [WSG] Alt text for purely aesthetic images

2007-10-26 Thread Dave Woods
Hi Simon,

If you have an image for purely presentational purposes then you can
use a blank alt attribute

alt=

However, if it's purely for presentational purposes then you should
really apply it using CSS as a background image ;o)

Thanks
Dave

http://www.dave-woods.co.uk



On 26/10/2007, Simon Cockayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

 http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/

 Guideline 1. Provide equivalent alternatives to auditory and visual
 content
 1.1 Provide a text equivalent for every non-text element (e.g., via alt,
 longdesc, or in element content). This includes: images, graphical
 representations of text (including symbols), image map regions, animations
 (e.g., animated GIFs), applets and programmatic objects, ascii art, frames,
 scripts, images used as list bullets, spacers, graphical buttons, sounds
 (played with or without user interaction), stand-alone audio files, audio
 tracks of video, and video. [Priority 1]


 Cheers,

 Simon

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Re: [WSG] Re: Alt text for purely aesthetic images

2007-10-26 Thread Dave Woods
As a general rule, any images that add to the content or are required
for navigation should be applied as a foreground image using the img
tag and an alt attribute should be applied.

If an image is purely for presentation then use CSS and apply it as a
background image.

Obviously there are exceptions to this where you may be using image
replacement and in this situation you should provide text within the
page that provides an alternative for the image.

Looking at the page you've provided, it looks perfectly fine in the
way you've applied the rounded corners although as a side issue I
would suggest running it through http://validator.w3.org as you've got
a few errors (you're using an XHTML doctype so don't forget to close
img tags as well as escaping ampersands). ;o)

Hope that helps.

Dave

http://www.dave-woods.co.uk

On 26/10/2007, Simon Cockayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi again...

 Whoops...butterfingers I unwittingly hit send before completing my email.

 Anywise...here is what it should have said:

 Hi,

 WCAG 1.0 ( http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/) states:

 Guideline 1. Provide equivalent alternatives to auditory and visual content
  Provide content that, when presented to the user, conveys essentially the
 same function or purpose as auditory or visual content.
 ...

 1.1 Provide a text equivalent for every non-text element (e.g., via alt,
 longdesc, or in element content). This includes: images, graphical
 representations of text (including symbols), image map regions, animations
 (e.g., animated GIFs), applets and programmatic objects, ascii art, frames,
 scripts, images used as list bullets, spacers, graphical buttons, sounds
 (played with or without user interaction), stand-alone audio files, audio
 tracks of video, and video. [Priority 1]


 I have two questions regarding images added via CSS.

 1) I added an image for each bullet via CSS .box ul li. How do I specify alt
 text in this situation? Do I add alt text in the HTML...even though there
 would be no image if CSS was disabled?

 2) What is the implication (what do I need to do) for purely
 presenation/aesthetic images?

 For example on my wife's microsite (that I built)
 http://phd.london.edu/ygrushkacockayne/ what do I need to
 do, if anything, for the gifs that form rounded corners on the boxes, via
 CCS on .box, box2 et cetera?



 Cheers,

 Simon

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Re: [WSG] WCAG conformance and checking

2007-10-26 Thread Dave Woods
Yeah, the webdev toolbar for Firefox has direct links to the
cynthiasays (WAI) checker and the section 508 checker along with some
other useful tools so if you don't already have it, that's a must for
all developers.

http://chrispederick.com/work/web-developer/

There's also a colour contrast analyzer that's pretty useful for Firefox here

http://juicystudio.com/article/colour-contrast-analyser-firefox-extension.php

I use these as an initial starting point for testing accessibility but
as you've rightly pointed out, these won't guarantee accessibility so
manual testing and common sense are much more important once you've
performed these initial tests.

Hope they help though.

Dave

http://www.dave-woods.co.uk




On 26/10/2007, Simon Cockayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

 I am on a mission to get the microsite that I built for my wife
 http://phd.london.edu/ygrushkacockayne/ to conform to W3C's
 Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 1.0, available at
 http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/WAI-WEBCONTENT-19990505, level
 Double-A.

 I am reading http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT/ and
 http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT-TECHS/.

 I realize no automated checking is foolproof...but are there any good
 automated tools to assist in WCAG conformance checking? ( I hear cynthia
 mentioned from time to time...any good/any details? Any others?

 Any good Firefox extensions/plug-ins?

 Cheers,

 Simon



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Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest

2007-10-26 Thread Dave Woods
Sorry about that, the validator seemed to suggest that you had some
image tags that weren't closed and that you were using  instead of
amp; but having validated it again, it appears fine. Strange.

I've had problems with the WAI validator in Firefox sometimes as well,
it seems that locally it has problems but once the page is online I
tend to find it works alright.



On 26/10/2007, Simon Cockayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Dave,

 First off, thanks for the feedback.

 I do have the Firefox Web Developer tool bar...for some reason the
 toolsvalidate local accessibility seems to hang...possibly a firewall
 sisue..i will check on a different network.


 RE: http://phd.london.edu/ygrushkacockayne/index.html, you
 said...

 I would suggest running it through http://validator.w3.org as you've got
 a few errors (you're using an XHTML doctype so don't forget to close
 img tags as well as escaping ampersands). ;o)

 ...please can you elaborate?

 As far as I can tell this page is valid XHMTL STRICT 1.0. as per:
 http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fphd.london.edu%2Fygrushkacockayne%2Findex.htmlcharset=%28detect+automatically%29doctype=Inlinegroup=0

 Dave - I really do appreciate your time and trouble.

 Cheers,

 Simon


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Re: [WSG] Minimum width help

2007-10-24 Thread Dave Woods
Hi Dean,

Not sure what these two styles are actually doing but it looks like
they're the cause within your menu.css

#p7TBMsub03 { padding: 0 0 0 150px; }
#p7TBMsub04 { padding: 0 0 0 210px; }

Removing them seems to fix the problem with no adverse effect.

Cheers
Dave

- - - - - - - - - -
Dave Woods
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk



On 24/10/2007, Dean Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Can someone explain why I am generating a horizontal scroll bar at
 1024 width?

 http://www3.andersrice.com/

 Thanks,

 Dean




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Re: [WSG] Minimum width help

2007-10-24 Thread Dave Woods
Actually, further investigation, I've spotted what's happening.

You're hiding the submenu's using this

.p7TBMsub {
position: absolute;
visibility:hidden;
left: 0;
top: 0;
width: 100%;
}

But then you're forgetting that the 100% width is being combined with
the padding and therefore forcing your page out by 210px.

You could take my original suggestion and remove the padding but the
better suggestion would be just to remove the width: 100%;

You're applying it to a block element which by default is 100% anyway
but by not applying it, the width will take into consideration the
other padding you're applying automatically.

So, change your code to this and it should work ;o)

.p7TBMsub {
position: absolute;
visibility:hidden;
left: 0;
top: 0;
}

Although, I'm not sure whether using visibility: hidden; will be bad
for screenreaders as I know display: none; will and you're doing a
similar thing so you may be better going for the suckerfish menu
approach where you position the hidden menu using offscreen negative
positioning.

http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/

But that's a different matter altogether.

Hope that helps.

- - - - - - - - - -
Dave Woods
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk
On 24/10/2007, Dave Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Dean,

 Not sure what these two styles are actually doing but it looks like
 they're the cause within your menu.css

 #p7TBMsub03 { padding: 0 0 0 150px; }
 #p7TBMsub04 { padding: 0 0 0 210px; }

 Removing them seems to fix the problem with no adverse effect.

 Cheers
 Dave

 - - - - - - - - - -
 Dave Woods
 http://www.dave-woods.co.uk



 On 24/10/2007, Dean Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Can someone explain why I am generating a horizontal scroll bar at
  1024 width?
 
  http://www3.andersrice.com/
 
  Thanks,
 
  Dean
 
 
 
 
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Re: [WSG] how a href with javascript pass in A level

2007-10-23 Thread Dave Woods
Hi,

CynthiaSays should only be used as a first step so passing any online
automated accessibility test by no means guarantee's that a site is
accessible so you should always do a manual check.

The search is definitely not accessible on the link you've provided as
it simply doesn't work without JavaScript.

The header (imagemap) also uses JavaScript so this appears broken to
anyone browsing without it. If this same content is still navigable
using the main menu then I wouldn't consider this a major issue
although they should certainly remove the icon (hand pointer) when
JavaScript isn't enabled otherwise it appears clickable when it's not.

I agree, that maybe the online validation tests should give more
warning that you need to manually test as well but I'd always treat
them as an initial test just to ensure you have the basics in place
before a manual accessibility test takes place.

Hope that helps.

Dave

- - - - - - - - - -
Dave Woods
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk



On 23/10/2007, Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello,

 iam trying to understand how a page that have 1 or 2 javascript in
 href could pass in level A of WCAG 1.

 it have a noscript but that doesnt prove anything, cynthisays.com and
 TAW validators give the some result. I think they should give a
 warning or even a Human check.

 To prove if equivalent information are provide?

 The site that iam testing is www.alentejolitoral.pt it use a
 a href=javascript:SEB97811_Submit() title=Go Search

 but for using a noscript it pass in level  A, this should be checked
 by humam, right!?


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Re: [WSG] Cost of Accessibility

2007-10-08 Thread Dave Woods
Completely agree with most of the comments. Accessibility ensures that
the site is usable, not just for disabled users but for ALL your
users.

It should come at no extra cost and only if the designer goes out of
their way to deliver an inaccessible site does it become a problem.
Adding alt attributes, using semantic HTML, ensuring that JavaScript
isn't used for critical functionality etc shouldn't be nice to have's
for the client, they should be built in as standard by any reputable
web designer.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dave Woods
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


On 08/10/2007, Chris Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 McLaughlin, Gail G  wrote:
  We always ask the client if they require that the site comply
  with accessibility. The response ranges from What is
  accessibility? to we'll worry about that later to No!

 So you build poor sites unless specifically told to build them to standards?
 Ouch.


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Re: [WSG] Cost of Accessibility

2007-10-08 Thread Dave Woods
Standards compliance doesn't automatically guarantee an accessible
site and there's every chance that valid, semantic markup could be
just as or even more inaccessible than a site using tables for layout
and inline styles so I do agree and that wasn't the point I was
personally trying to put across.

If accessibility is considered by a skilled web designer who
understands how users are likely to be impacted by different aspects
of accessibility then these issues can be dealt with at the outset
rather than trying to implement accessibility afterwards.

I wasn't trying to belittle accessibility or suggest that it was easy
but with the right skills and knowledge it should cost very little to
implement single A compliance at the very least which in my opinion
far too many websites fail to do.

Considering aspects of the design that you've mentioned along with
things like colour contrast, colour blindness, type of device being
used, browser font-size etc go over and above web standards. However,
if they are considered at the beginning of a project then it's not
something that will add a huge amount of cost to development compared
with another company who only decide at the end of development that
they now need to consider accessibility.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dave Woods
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


On 08/10/2007, Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The cost of adding accessibility should really be zero.

 Statements like this illustrate a total lack of understanding that I am
 dismayed to encounter in this group. Standards compliance does not equal
 accessibility. It's just one part of it, and arguably the easiest part.


 As a designer/developer I don't really care about blind people. I don't
 consider them (gasp!). I do consider PDAs, cellphones, text-only browsers,
 screenreaders and google.

 That's your choice but don't kid yourself that you're building accessible
 websites. You aren't. You are building standards-compliant websites, and
 that's not the same thing. You are defining accessibility to be the bits you
 like doing, and you're pretending the difficult stuff does not exist or
 isn't important or isn't your responsibility.

 It can be very challenging to design content that people can understand when
 it is linearised or if they can only see a small part of the screen or they
 can only use a keyboard or keyboard emulator to navigate. To say that it's
 someone else's problem is a total cop-out and is unworthy of a professional
 designer.

 Of course it would be nice if user agents were better than they are, but
 some of these issues of comprehension are down to people, not the user
 agents. If a web designer's job is to communicate to people (and I'll bet
 that's what your customers expect), you ought to be taking people into
 account in your designs.

 Steve



 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Christian Snodgrass
 Sent: 08 October 2007 07:21
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Cost of Accessibility

 I agree completely with you. With the exception of your API specifics, I
 think the same exact way.

 The cost of adding accessibility should really be zero. It takes no extra
 time or effort if you are designing and coding your websites the proper,
 because the methods used for accessibility are also the standards for basic
 web design. Also, many of the changes that help make a website accessible
 are also very good for things like cross-browser compatibility and S.E.O.

 Christian Snodgrass
 Azure Ronin Web Design

 Joseph Taylor wrote:
  McLaughlin, Gail G wrote:
  We always ask the client if they require that the site comply with
  accessibility.
 
 
  Why not say Would you like a shitty website, or a good quality
  website?  Well-made shouldn't be an extra feature...
 
  In fact, since its clearly cheaper and easier to make a crappy
  website, why don't you just mock up pages in Illustrator, save the
  whole thing as an image with no alt attribute, and use that instead of
  a real page?  Thats real cheap and easy.  Heck, there are people that
  actually do that!  Most people will never know!
 
  I cannot tell anyone how to run their own business, or design a
  website for that matter, but I want to state for the record that
  anyone on this list should be doing there very best to make the best
  sites they can.  Adding alt attributes to images and doing other minor
  things that make pages more adaptable to devices and more
  user-friendly is the right thing to do.
 
  Blind people?  Accessibility is not about blind people.
 
  As a designer/developer I don't really care about blind people.  I
  don't consider them (gasp!).
 
  I do consider PDAs, cellphones, text-only browsers, screenreaders and
  google.
  I take the responsibility upon myself to deliver a product that works
  on all of them.  I also make no guarantees.  I don't mention
  accessibility or other browsers

Re: [WSG] Levels of 508 compliance

2007-10-03 Thread Dave Woods
Hi,

Are these what you're after?

http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT/
http://www.section508.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=ContentID=12

Thanks
Dave

On 03/10/2007, Tom Livingston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi listers,

 Does anyone have a reference (link) to a site that actually spells out
 what criteria must be met for the levels of  WCAG and 508 compliance.
 Can't seem to come up with quite what I am after from Google...

 Thanks a lot in advance.

 --

 Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic |
 ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com


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Re: [WSG] Positioning a background image

2007-10-01 Thread Dave Woods
Alternatively you could introduce and extra div and apply padding/margin
to create the effect you need. If the background outside the container is a
plain colour you could always apply a border-top or 120px to make it appear
as you want.

The first will definitely work for your situation whilst the second may work
depending on the layout.


On 01/10/2007, Matthew Pennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 30/09/2007, Mike Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
  That's annoying! But thanks for the explanation :)


 All the information you ever need on background positioning:

 http://www.digital-web.com/articles/web_design_101_backgrounds/

 :)







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Re: [WSG] Form styling

2007-09-27 Thread Dave Woods
Mike, This is exactly the reason why I include the br at the end of
the labels so that the form still displays nicely without the styles
applied.

I suppose a better case could be made for removing the display: block;
from the labels in this situation but would be needed if for example
you wanted a couple of labels side by side and needed to apply a width
to the label.

John, of course you're right though and the display: block on the
label is doing the same thing as the br in the example above.


On 27/09/2007, Mike at Green-Beast.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi John,

  With your labels set to display: block, you don't realy
  need the extra br at the end of each one. ;)

 You're right, of course, but I think it's a good idea to keep the breaks.
 Not everyone supports styles so the breaks keep the form neat without them.

 My 2 cents.

 Cheers.
 Mike Cherim

 Just relaunched as v5: http://greenmethods.com/



 - Original Message -
 From: John Faulds [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 6:16 PM
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Form styling


 http://www.dave-woods.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/accessible-forms1.html

 With your labels set to display: block, you don't realy need the extra
 br at the end of each one. ;)


 --
 Tyssen Design
 www.tyssendesign.com.au
 Ph: (07) 3300 3303
 Mb: 0405 678 590



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Re: [WSG] Form styling

2007-09-26 Thread Dave Woods
Tom,

I put this together a while ago which you'll probably find useful

http://www.dave-woods.co.uk/?p=91 with it in action here
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/accessible-forms1.html

If you group the label with the form field then it's usually much
easier to style the form and position it as you require.

Hope that helps

Cheers
Dave


On 26/09/2007, Tom Livingston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello list,

 OK, I hate form styling. It's my least favorite thing. I have started
 using Eric Meyer's Reset style sheet.  Does anyone have a favorite
 resource for dealing with forms. I am tired of resorting to... [cough]
 tables. I do manage on occasion to pull it off w/o tables, but it's
 always a struggle. Especially where labels are to the left of text
 inputs.

 Thanks a bunch in advance.

 --


 Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic |
 ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | www.mlinc.com


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Re: [WSG] Form styling

2007-09-26 Thread Dave Woods
Glad it helped :o)

The idea for the span around the legend and div around the
fieldset initially came from
http://www.tyssendesign.com.au/articles/css/legends-of-style/

This then gave me the idea of including a span around the actual
label text as it then provides extra flexibility for styling the form.
It won't always be necessary but is certainly useful if the label and
input can't be styled as you require without the extra markup.

Cheers
Dave


On 26/09/2007, Tom Livingston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Dave,

 Thanks a lot for this. It's really simple and I don't mind the extra
 span element. So simple in fact, I threw up in my mouth a little from
 my own embarrassment. :-P

 THANKS!

 And thanks to the others for the replies. I will hang on to these in
 case a situation arises where one method is needed over another.


  http://www.dave-woods.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/accessible-forms1.html

 
 


 --

 Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic |
 ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com


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Re: [WSG] Using target=_blank

2007-07-24 Thread Dave Lane
Wow, that's very well said, especially your clarification of the 
relationship dynamics between the website and the visitor.


Thanks,

Dave

Andrew Maben wrote:
If you go to the mall, would you be happier if every store you entered 
assigned a staff member to accompany you so you don't forget to come 
back? I don't think so. If you're looking for a specific item, you're 
likely to be comparison shopping and perfectly capable of remembering 
which store has what you want and finding your own way back. If you're 
just browsing, then you'll remember stores that offer a pleasant 
experience - friendly and helpful staff, selection and quality of 
merchandise and ambiance - and will probably go back, even eventually 
mke a purchse, perhaps become a regular customer. If the experience is 
unpleasant - heavy handed sales techniques, poor quality, dingy 
premeises - you're equally likely to remember, never to 
return... Probably the two most insulting customer relations postures 
are coercion and insulting the customer's intelligence.


Further, it's a misunderstanding of the dynamics of the relationship to 
speak of users visiting your site. On the contrary, the user is 
extending an invitation to your site to visit HER browser, on HER 
computer, in HER home or workplace, so you (we) are beholden to the 
highest standards of courtesy and respect, if you hope to be invited back.


Andrew

http://www.andrewmaben. http://www.andrewmaben.com/net
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

/In a well designed user interface, the user should not 
need //instructions./




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Re: [WSG] To target or not

2007-07-19 Thread Dave Lane
My suggestion is simple: let it be the content and presentation that 
keeps people on your site, not gimmickry.  Most smart web surfers use 
Firefox or Opera or a lesser browser that is nonetheless tabbed.  If I 
want to stay on a page, I open links from that page in new background 
tabs while I continue to read the page.


I find it oh-so-frustrating to have a site designer decide how my 
browsing should work, breaking web conventions (note, web conventions 
exist for a reason... they're what people expect - I recommend people 
think long and hard before they break them).


If I click on a link on their site I expect it to open in my current 
window - if it insists on opening a new window, it pisses me off, 
because that's not how I work.  I see that approach as indicating a 
designer still in a very IE5.5-6 mindset: primitive.  Sites that try to 
manipulate me don't pique my interest, they put me right off (and, 
needless to say, I don't go back).


Dave

Joyce Evans wrote:

I always thought it was a good idea to open links to other websites in a
separate window, so you don't lose the visitor.  If the visitor clicks on a
link on your website and it does not open into a separate window, the
visitor may stay in the other website for awhile, going to, say, 20
different pages.  Most likely, he's not going to click on the back button 20
times to get back to your website, so you've lost the visitor or potential
customer.  If the link opens up into a separate window, the visitor cannot
click on the back button, so he'll need to click on the exit (X) button, and
voila, he's back in your website, where you want him to be.

Joyce Evans
Niche Marketing
www.nichemktghouston.com

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matthew Ohlman
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 9:21 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] To target or not

Hello List,

I was curious what others opinions were on this issue...

Since W3C doesn't allow the target attribute in XHTML Strict, which do 
you think is better?  Having the window opening up with JavaScript or 
just keeping the page in the same window like W3C wants. 

I assume the reason for not allowing the target attribute is for 
accessibility--because screen readers can not control pop-ups.  
Therefore it seems logical to me to keep it in the same window--even if 
it is an external site, etc.


What does everyone think?

Matthew


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Re: [WSG] Suggestions Please for: CMS / E-commerce Solutions

2007-05-28 Thread Dave Lane

Drupal.  http://drupal.org

Mark Hedley wrote:

Hi everyone.

I am currently looking for a cost-effective (preferably opensource)
solution to run our companies UK based web site.

I have looked at TradingEye PHP Store and have spoke in depth with
Wladimir however some features seem restrictive for our needs.

If time was not an issue I would create a system from my own experiences
however time is a luxury I do not have at the moment and our system
needs an overhaul from an administrative point of view. I only took on
the development role in May 2006 and I am slowly getting things in order
but still a long way to go.

Needless to say I am wondering if anyone can offer any advice on a
solution for Content Management and E-commerce. Naturally something
which adheres to standards compliant design principals.

Look forward to feedback.

Thanks,

Mark Hedley
Web Development Manager
Mayborn Baby  Child Division


http://www.tommeetippee.com

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Re: [WSG] Suggestions Please for: CMS / E-commerce Solutions

2007-05-28 Thread Dave Lane

Hi Paul,

I'm afraid your experience isn't one we've shared - we're more or less 
full-time Drupal developers now (after trying a number of alternatives). 
 If you haven't tried it, Drupal 5.x is a major step up from Drupal 4.7 
(which was already outstanding) - a very impressive system, and its 
theming capabilities from my experience are second to none.


Drupal uses php as its template language, too, which is a breath of 
fresh air (given that PHP *is* a template language, I find it amusing 
that so many people insist on inventing new templating languages written 
in PHP but with different syntaxes and without all of PHP's 
capabilities).  With regard to the little bits of files, you may be 
referring to Drupal's rather elegant theme override capabilities, one of 
its great strengths, in my opinion.  These allow you to change only the 
bits you want to change without incurring the overhead of replicating an 
entire theme if you don't need to.


Drupal's ecommerce functionality has been completely rewritten for 5.x, 
but it is my understanding that it is quite a big improvement over 
earlier versions.  I haven't used it much myself (my colleagues here 
have more experience with it and rate it as very good), so I recommend a 
test drive before committing - but then that's true of any of the 
CMS/E-Commerce suggestions.


Cheers,

Dave

Paul Bennett wrote:

Hi all,

I just have to pitch in here. My dealings with Drupal have been less than 
wonderful. I find it vague and confusing  (kind of like it's trying to be 
everything to everyone) and when I tried to create a new template I found all 
sorts of crappy table-based code needed, as well as the need to create bits of 
files all over the place to get one new template working.

In my experience, something like Expression Engine 
(http://www.expressionengine.com) or wordpress (http://www.wordpress.org) would 
be a far better bet for a simple CMS and a heck of a lot easier for a 
non-technical editor to use.

Just my 2c anyway
Paul


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Re: [WSG] style sheet set up

2005-05-28 Thread Dave O'Brien
I tend to clear all the browser defaulted styles at the top in one
large grouped rule.

I then set out all the divisions with their ID's, in the order they
appear in the xhtml eg:

div#top {
}
div#middle {
}
div#bottom {
}

Underneath this I would work though all the rules focusing within one
specific division eg:

div#top h1 {
}
div#top p {
}
div#top ul {
}
div#top li {
}

It's a neat order, keeps the cascade flowing and easy to change the
visual layout of the page relatively quickly
-- 
Dave O'Brien

Venting my spleen at:
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Re: [WSG] style sheet set up

2005-05-28 Thread Dave O'Brien
Also, regarding multiple stylesheets, I tend to put all the rules
relating to the homepage and structure of pages on the one main or
global stylesheet. I would then use a secondary stylesheet to hold any
page specific rules ( such as form styling, section specfic
navigations ), this helps reduce the initial load on the homepage ...
especially if if you have quite a large and varying site.

Developing my web at:
http://www.thewebdeveloper.net
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Re: [WSG] CSS Document layout/structure

2005-04-07 Thread Dave Elkan




To add to readability of your css you should also consider the layout
of the individual css rules as well as their
organisation/categorisation.

Using typical whitespacing that applies to most coding standards you
can come up with the usual layout:

.className {
 property: propertyValue;
 property: propertyValue
}

The four spaces (not tabs) before each property are vital for viewing
correctly on all platforms (vi, etc).
Also, the space between the colon and the value are also add to the
readablity as well. 

I always put an extra line break in my declations, though (this extends
to all code I write) making something like the following:

.className
{
 property: propertyValue;
 property: propertyValue
}

I also place a new line between each rule, seperating them out:

.className
{
 property: propertyValue;
 property: propertyValue
}

#idName
{
 property: propertyValue;
 property: propertyValue
}

White space is a very personal thing, I feel. 
What you can read easiest depends entirely on what you're used to. 

~Dave

Hugues Brunelle wrote:

  Hi Charlie,
I know what you mean, I did many redesign stuff and find out that I wasn't
able to understand my own css file (that was awful).
You can see a sample at http://www.echo3d.com/css/screen.css
It "looks" complex but if you pay attention, you'll see that everything is
in order.

Here is some simple rules I apply and know what? I am not lost anymore in my
CSS :)

Hugues Brunelle
Concepteur graphique
 
//
ECHO tridimension
2139 rue Masson
Montral QC  H2H 1A8
 
1-(514)5211360
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


4 simple rules : 

1.0 Divide your one and only (I split CSS only for different media, not for
different part of design.) CSS structure into 3 main themes like

	/* GENERIC ELEMENTS : HTML 4.01 */
	/* SPECIFIC ATTRIBUTES : ID */
	/* RECURRING ATTRIBUTES : CLASS */

2.0 Use alphabetic because code should not rule the way you design (think
about when you start shifting stuff on top and moving others on bottom)

	/* GENERIC ELEMENTS : HTML 4.01 */

	a {
	}
	abbr {
	}
	acronym {
	}

	/* SPECIFIC ATTRIBUTES : ID */
	/* RECURRING ATTRIBUTES : CLASS */

3.0 Make good use of descendant selectors

	/* GENERIC ELEMENTS : HTML 4.01 */

	a {
	}
	abbr {
	}
	acronym {
	}
	h1 {
	}
	h1 em {
	}
	h1 em a {
	}

	/* SPECIFIC ATTRIBUTES : ID */
	/* RECURRING ATTRIBUTES : CLASS */

4.0 Choose the appropriate terminology to keep alphabetic order logical and
respect it no matter what (avoid terms like "red-text" or "1em" in your
class or id name)

	/* GENERIC ELEMENTS : HTML 4.01 */

	a {
	}
	abbr {
	}
	acronym {
	}
	h1 {
	}
	h1 em {
	}
	h1 em a {
	}

	/* SPECIFIC ATTRIBUTES : ID */
	
	div#content {
	}
	div#content_body {
	}
	div#content_foot {
	}
	div#content_head {
	
	/* RECURRING ATTRIBUTES : CLASS */






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Elkan
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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inline: eDave.gif

[WSG] CSS/Font size query

2005-03-23 Thread Dave Barnett
Hello,
Im hoping someone can help. Our unit has just completed work on an 
update for our home page using a combination of Coldfusion, MySQL and 
CSS. 

The URL is:  http://www.flinders.edu.au/
We have tested the page on all available browser/system setups without 
a hitch,  but we periodically receive emails from people complaining 
about tiny font sizes.

We have done extensive testing in an attempt to replicate the 'tiny 
font size' problem that some users are having, but so far have not been 
successful in
replicating this issue in any of our testing environments (A 
combination of testing on the actual OS/ Multi-Browser versions as well 
as using the Browsercam service.)

Our web statistics reveal that the majority of users are using MSIE 6.0 
and running Windows XP.

- Some of our users on campus are using Citrix and we have noticed that 
some of their configurations are defaulting to 'smaller' text in MSIE 
rather than the default of  'medium'.
we have been able to resolve the issue for some of these users.

 If anyone could offer any help or suggestions it would be greatly 
appreciated.

- James Caller / Dave Barnett
//-
David Barnett
Multimedia Technology Unit
Information Services Division
Flinders University
Adelaide. Australia
Phone: 8201 5019
Fax: 8201 3996
//-
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Re: [WSG] Standards compliant site, clients wants to make updates themselves

2005-03-21 Thread Dave Elkan
I've run into this problem quite a bit (in one way or another).
I've found in the end is that the simple most effective way to fix it is 
to simply put instructions in the code with comments and do your best to 
instruct them on the details.

If you don't work for a company and it's a private client you're dealing 
with who are desperate to make the updates themselves (and, understably, 
not pay you for your expertise) then they will either have to develop 
their own expertise (point them in the direction of a short course or 
you can teach them), or they can make mistakes.

Updating a website without a CMS is a task for anyone. If they want to 
benefit from having a webpage, then they can either learn to do it or 
send the work to someone who knows how.

In the end, it's like owning a car, either you get it repaired by a 
mechanic or you try to fix it, break it more and then get it repaired by 
a mechanic anyway, but at least with the later, maybe you've learnt 
something.

In the end I gave up trying to teach every client and became a CMS 
developer. :P

~Dave
Bert Doorn wrote:
I design sites to be standards compliant (usually XHTML1.0 Strict). 
This is ~supposed~ to make maintenance easier, and it is for me since I
know what I'm doing (or at least, I think I do)

However, I get many prospects who want to update sites themselves. In 
many cases, these are very small businesses with just one or two 
people, none of which have any idea about (x)HTML. Most of them have 
very small budgets, so they can't afford a complete CMS type setup 
(and it's not the kind of thing I can supply) and they tend to only 
want a small site (a few pages) for next to nothing.

Is it just me, or is this a common dilemma? Apart from abandoning 
standards compliance (not an option as far as I'm concerned), setting 
the site up in HTML4.01 Transitional and letting amateurs wreak havoc 
with Micro$oft FONTPlague, what options are there to design 
standards compliant sites, letting clients maintain them and still 
stay within web standards?

Yes, I know there's things like XStandard, and the confusingly named 
FCKEditor. However, these (as far as I know) require server side 
scripting and the client would have to have write-access to the files 
on the server (or a database driven site), all of which increases the 
cost.

What other options are there, apart from complex, expensive CMS setups 
(or forgetting about standards)?
Regards

--
*~Dave Elkan
*munch munch*e:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [WSG] navigation using arrows for location

2005-03-01 Thread Dave O'Brien
The navigation looks pretty good; started laying out a concept, still
a fair bit to do however and will have a go finishing off when I can
over the next few days.

Am shattered so enough said.

Dave

On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 09:18:18 +1100, Peter Ottery
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
 so I've designed myself a nice looking navigation scheme that displays
 visually whereabouts you are within a site. 
   
 Now I just need to work out how to sort out the css :) 
   
 Here's what I want it to look like: 
   
 http://c41.com.au/test/sample_nav.gif 
   
 I'm *not* after any dynamic or popout (suckerfish [1]) type functions. 
 Essentially the tricky bit is going to be the light red lines/arrows and
 working out how to get them in the right spot. ie: so they'll adjust to line
 up with the section you are in. 
 There's also going to be content below this navigation, so if one of the
 lists grew really long it should push down the content (ie: may rule out
 absolute positioning) 
   
 Wondering if anyone has some immediate ideas or even has a similar
 example..? 
   
 Ideally I'd imagine the html should look something like this: 
   
 ul id=nav 
 li class=activeBy Expertise 
 
 ul 
 li class=activeArchitecture 
   
 ul 
 liWoodCentre/li 
 li250 Latin Street/li 
 liEl Changeo/li 
 li2 Changed Ave/li 
 liChangewood Facilities/li 
 li class=activeActive Project/li 
 liPark in Perth/li! 
 li11 Smith Street/li 
 li58 amp; 88 Changed St/li 
 /ul 
   
 /li 
 liInterior Design/li 
 liUrban + landscape design/li 
 liHeritage conservation/li 
 liConsulting/li 
 /ul 
   
 /li 
 liBy Location/li 
 liArchive/li 
 /ul 
   
 any thoughts or help appreciated, 
 pete 
   
   
 [1] - http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dropdowns/ 


-- 
Dave O'Brien

Venting my spleen at:
http://www.ventingspleen.co.uk

Developing my web at:
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Re: [WSG] [on-topic]wireframes

2005-02-28 Thread Dave O'Brien
By chance, I've just finished building wireframes for a project in
XHTML  CSS. I found it a little more time consuming and as Andy
mentioned you can sit there and spend too long thinking about it. I
mean wireframes should be addressed separately from any visual /
production stages - your attention should be on boxing out the page in
a usable, accessible layout and not on why the content area sits 50
pixels below the side navigation. The complications of writing the
XHTML/CSS can stagnant the process.

Having said that, I now have the layout pretty much built and ready to
hang some visuals off it and a protosite there for testing and
content. I also now have the stylesheet set so I can adjust the values
for future use and the client was impressed. I think in future I will
sketch out the wireframes separately and then apply it to the
XHTML/CSS to use as a protosite.

Dave O'Brien

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 09:54:38 +, Andy Budd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Iva Koberg wrote:
 
  What's stopping you from creating the prototype boxes in XHTML + CSS?
  It has the added advantage of meaning that once you've got your
  layout, you've also got your document structure. Just add the content
  and remove the border: 1px solid black; properties and you're done.
 
 One of the points of using prototypes is that they are fast to build
 and thus desposable. If you're using XHTML/CSS prototypes there is the
 temptation to turn it into the final template. This either means that
 you spend too long thinking about the code/structure of a prototype
 that is likely to change, or you end up building in issues due to the
 fact that the prototype was built rapidly.
 
 I tend to use low-fi wireframes then hi-fi prototypes, usually output
 from the Phtoshop/Fireworks templates as regular table based HTML.
 
 Andy Budd
 
 http://www.message.uk.com/
 
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-- 
Dave O'Brien

Venting my spleen at:
http://www.ventingspleen.co.uk

Develop the web at:
http://www.thewebdeveloper.net
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Re: [WSG] absolute positioning

2005-02-26 Thread Dave O'Brien
Its part of the spec I believe. An element is absolutly positioned
within it's containing element ( which I think has to be block level
for obvious reasons ). A basic example is that a single absolutly
positioned element ( say a div#example ) within the body tag is
positioned to the body tag which makes up the entire viewport - or
window.

Now wraping an extra div ( say div#example_wrap ) around the
divi#example element the divi#example will then position itself to the
coordinates within the div#example_wrap ( the containing element i.e.
div#example_wrap in this case must have a relative or absolute
position itself for it work in most browsers - just like Johnno said
).

Relative positioning is a different ballgame.


On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 09:50:16 +1100, Johnno Shadbolt
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 If an element (your image) is positioned with absolute, inside another
 element (a div) that is positioned with relative (it is easy to make
 divs center-align), it should follow the absolute positioning, but
 still be in the div.
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Re: [WSG] .php extension

2005-01-20 Thread Dave Elkan
You have to edit your httpd.conf file to process files of  the .html suffix.
Look for the line:
AddType application/x-httpd-php .php
make it:
AddType application/x-httpd-php .html .php
Easy!!
~Dave
Paul wrote:
I have a template that I have created and am creating all my pages from
that. I have named this file x.html but when I try and rename it to
x.php, because I have some dynamic content on it, nothing displays. Any
ideas why this happens ?
Paul
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Cummiskey
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 11:12 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Help - newbie
Paul wrote:
 

I have been writing html code for awhile now and and starting to 
realize
how inaccessible and non-web compliant my pages are. I have always
   

hand 
 

written code in Edit Plus 2, is there a better editor I can use for
   

web 
 

standards ( like Dreamweaver MX ? ) and where should I start for tips
   

on 
 

accessibility and standards compliance.
Thanks for any help.
Paul
   

The editor doesn't make you write bad code--  you do :)  I use edit 
plus2 for all of my dev work, and 99% of it is valid xhtml/css.  the 
last 1% is because i'm on an MS system at work, and we all know how 
sometimes, theres just no way to do it right and serve a 99.9995% IE6 
audience.
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[WSG] New music site barring non IE browsers

2004-11-30 Thread Dave Rayner



I went to check 
out http://hmv.ninemsn.com.au using 
Firefox and it gave me this:

"The site you have tried to enter requires Internet 
Explorer 6 (or better) with Windows Media Player 7 (or better) on Windows XP, 
2000, Me or 98. Click Here to use our Doctor Download application to 
help you check your configuration alternatively Email Dr Download.Please try again."

Just when i was 
feeling confident about the web's progression, i see that. It goes against a few 
really big things that web standards and the WSG is fighting 
for.

I sent an email 
the 'doctor' just to show how disappointed i was. That'll teach 
'em.


dave 
rayner
freshwebwww.freshweb.com.aum. 0409 037 
250
p. +61 2 
89202344f. +61 2 89203008 This message is confidential, and may 
contain proprietary or legally privileged information. If you have 
received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it 
immediately. Internet communications are not secure. You should scan 
this message and any attachments for viruses. Under no circumstances do 
we accept liability for any loss or damage which may result from your 
receipt of this message or any attachments. 



[WSG] (another) Site Check :)

2004-11-17 Thread Dave Elkan
Fellow WebStandardites,
I've just finished my first site since moving over here to the UK from 
Australia.
Unfortunately for that reason I don't have all of my equipment with me 
and to make matters worse we don't have a mac testing station here at 
work.

Is there any chance someone could have a look at this site in ie5 for 
mac and tell me/take a screenshot so I can see how horrid it looks?

The URL is http://www.wallpaper.com
Thanks for your help!
~Dave
http://www.edave.net
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RE: [WSG] Web Standards Eye Candy: http://www.scottschiller.com/

2004-11-12 Thread Dave Lyons

yeah i think that came out a bit wrong, sorry bout that
was more in a funny kinda smirky way

like i said dont get me wrong i use some dhtml but in this case i think its a 
bit over board


the site i am working on right now at 430 am had to be done in 3 days since the 
original web designer did it with a ton of dhtml and when they went to look at 
it on a safari browser they couldnt even see half of it, so here i am  i guess 
that makes me look down at dhtml a lil bit more











-- Original Message --
From: Patrick Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date:  Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:14:52 -

 From: Dave Lyons

 then ur on some SERIOUS crack
 i mean serious crack

no need for that...

 dhtml will never be flash, never be supported like flash and 
 will never have the ease of use as flash, never have the 
 portability as flash, it cant use remoting (at least in a 
 legal secure way.

I'm all for using flash when it's appropriate, but in terms of
graceful degradation and accessibility, and obviously depending
on the specific application, a bit of conscienciously written
and implemented javascript can help add interactive functionality
without the need to create a completely separate, non-flash
alternative.

Admittedly though, both Schiller example sites are just a bit
over the top - good proof of concept, but not really to be used
for proper commercial sites (and yes, they haven't been coded with
graceful degradation in mind at all)

Patrick

Patrick H. Lauke
Webmaster / University of Salford
http://www.salford.ac.uk
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