Re: [WSG] Browser Engine Standard???
Taco, The company that I work for at the moment cannot afford to say 'bye bye' to 5% of web users (let alone 2%) for the simple fact that 5% represents THOUSANDS of customers all wanting to pay us money to provide them with web services. BTW, You were 'web designing' in 1991...? - Unfortunately, while we do vaguely know what *most* of the users use right now, we don't know at any point, for any particular site, what those *specific* users are browsing with, and what they will be browsing with in the future. - Is it really still vague? If we keep thinking like this, will we ever get a standard? I realize years ago, it was crazy to say, hey I will only code for Browser X, because there was such a variety used out there. But lately it has been quite obvious what the USERS are using (and once again let me stress out that that does not mean I agree with what they are using) the two browsers at the top are Internet Explorer and Mozilla, with Internet Explorer Leading. Cool, time to say bye bye to EVERY other browser that is not within this range, i.e. the ones that only have a share of 5% or less percent. Let the top two battle it out, i.e. let's see who the users will choose in the next two years, after that, bye bye number 2. One browser left, and we can all code for one browser (or engine/parser if they wised up and used the same backend but different front-end) and we can all finally start using those fancy features that we have stayed away from because they don't work in every browser. ;-)) Taco * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Browser Engine Standard???
Taco- I think it's more of a complex situation than that. I'm sort of sick of all the browser hoopla as well, and I've only been into designing for 5 years. Back when I was a consumer in the browser wars, that was a good time as well - fun to kick back and watch the dust fly :) I doubt there will ever be THE BROWSER 1.0 FINAL ... There's too much sharky business stuff that goes on behind the scenes for the browsers to all work the same. Without some sort of branding, there only would be one browser probably. I'm not sure why the browser wars were so damn violent - so if anyone with more knowledge of that stuff wants to send out a verbose email on/offlist to me I'll be happy to turn on sponge mode. As I see it, Netscrape VS Internut Exploder was simple brand name competition - technically, possession is 9/10's the law as they say. More market share, more branding awareness, more business. Now, at least the browsers are starting to all adopt standards which is definitely less of a headache for us as designers and coders. Even though they all agree on the standards though, each browser has it's own agenda - even Mozilla's Firebird has its own special CSS element properties that can be toyed with to do different things. You can see them all when using the DOM inspector within the program and loading up Computed Style, they all start with -moz from the bottom of the styles list up. The engine deal goes right in hand with the branding - because in order to set themselves apart from others, every browser will at least have their own tweaked version of a standard engine. I think that right now with the rise of standards the big dogs are going to start to flop out unless they can keep up with the open source development of the Mozilla team. And to their own credit, Netscrape's 7.1 browser is actually very pretty and works quite well. Of course, it is driven by Gecko - Mozilla's open source web engine. I dread seeing Microsoft's next IE release in the upcoming year. After this long without an update at all, they better be damn well sweating over hot keyboards with a new built-from-scratch engine driving the circus along. If they still have that same old legacy code plopped in there from IE6 I'm giving up on them as far as hope is concerned completely. Of course, given they still hold top market share, we'll still have to support their lousy browser. -Ryan Taco Fleur wrote: Will there ever be such a thing as a Standard Browser Engine/Parser or what ever you want to call it? 12 years ago when I first started web design I was already sick of the differences between how browsers display and handle things, back then I figured that after some time (12 years maybe) everybody would get their act together and at least use a default engine/parser for every browser.. Whats the deal? Is anybody working on this, will it ever happen? Why do so many designers still use and code for browsers that are not within the top highest browser market share? Isn't it time to say, we now know what the users use (even though we don't agree with what they use) and completely forget about the rest? If we all would do this and set our pride aside, I reckon we might have that dream we have come true! Or am I just babbling away again, and talk about things I have no clue about?? *Taco Fleur 07 3535 5072* Tell me and I will forget Show me and I will remember Teach me and I will learn * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Browser Engine Standard???
I'm not sure why the browser wars were so damn violent Two words Market Share The big companies realised, once the Internet started becoming popular outside of Universities and large organisations, that the Browser was the perfect conduit into people's homes (far moreso even than Television). TV is a very passive medium. As such, it is much harder to gain peoples attention and concentration. Most of us actually don't really concentrate on what is happening on the TV even when we are sitting in front of it. Even so, TV had a huge impact on marketting products to people. Part of the appeal was from the psychology of subliminal influence. The web, however, is very different. The person surfing is generally engaged in the process 100%. And psychology has come along again to tell us that when people are very focussed on something that subliminal messages can be even more effective. So. THAT's why Browser manufacturers want to be THE one on your desktop and why the Browser Wars still are in full swing. Because if they can dominate the marketplace then THEY are the ones in control of how you are influenced (maybe) and can then charge other people (who want to influence you) lots of money to use the conduit. This is why the browser technologies are free. Because you will end up paying for them in the products that you buy. Personally, I think this is a load of fetted dingoes kidneys (TM Douglas Addams, HHGTTG). And the Marketting arm of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation are just a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes! Gary Menzel Web Development Manager IT Operations Brisbane -+- ABN AMRO Morgans Limited Level 29, 123 Eagle Street BRISBANE QLD 4000 PH: 07 333 44 828 FX: 07 3834 0828 If this communication is not intended for you and you are not an authorised recipient of this email you are prohibited by law from dealing with or relying on the email or any file attachments. This prohibition includes reading, printing, copying, re-transmitting, disseminating, storing or in any other way dealing or acting in reliance on the information. If you have received this email in error, we request you contact ABN AMRO Morgans Limited immediately by returning the email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and destroy the original. We will refund any reasonable costs associated with notifying ABN AMRO Morgans. This email is confidential and may contain privileged client information. ABN AMRO Morgans has taken reasonable steps to ensure the accuracy and integrity of all its communications, including electronic communications, but accepts no liability for materials transmitted. Materials may also be transmitted without the knowledge of ABN AMRO Morgans. ABN AMRO Morgans Limited its directors and employees do not accept liability for the results of any actions taken or not on the basis of the information in this report. ABN AMRO Morgans Limited and its associates hold or may hold securities in the companies/trusts mentioned herein. Any recommendation is made on the basis of our research of the investment and may not suit the specific requirements of clients. Assessments of suitability to an individual?s portfolio can only be made after an examination of the particular client?s investments, financial circumstances and requirements. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
