Re: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE
Marvin, For the access keys and title attributes, I do agree with Thierry. I think access keys are more appropriate in complex forms or make the structure/number more logic by using automatic PHP script. Title attribute is mouse dependant also, not fit enough for touchscreen users. For the href=#, it would be works fine. Still valid by W3C, but not by Validome. Validome will say: The Link # points to a not existing Anchor. For the address, I would prefer using address tag. I am not perfect too. :) -- Regards, Dani Iswara http://daniiswara.net/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Dani Iswara Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 6:26 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE Marvin, For the access keys and title attributes, I do agree with Thierry. I think access keys are more appropriate in complex forms or make the structure/number more logic by using automatic PHP script. Title attribute is mouse dependant also, not fit enough for touchscreen users. For the href=#, it would be works fine. Still valid by W3C, but not by Validome. Validome will say: The Link # points to a not existing Anchor. For the address, I would prefer using address tag. I think that would not be the proper use for address http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#h-7.5.6 -- Regards, Thierry | www.tjkdesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE
Thierry, ah ya you were right. Address element is for Web document's author. -- Regards, Dani Iswara http://daniiswara.net/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE
Hi Marvin Other people have commented on your code; I'll just add a few points on the content. Copyright page: the likelihood of the AFP prosecuting someone for breach of copyright is minuscule (particularly where we're talking about the content on a commercial site). Just state that the material is copyright; no unauthorised reproduction allowed etc. My own site says: All text and images on the site are C Elizabeth Spiegel, 2005-2009; all rights reserved. You may link to any page on this site, on condition that it is not framed to give the impression that it belongs to or is associated with your own site, business or organisation. [note to self - must update the date range!] The statement that 'This information is accurate at this current time' is meaningless without an indication of when it was written/updated - I would omit it altogether. On the other hand, on produce.html, the date the page was updated is very important: I don't want to turn up at Joe's to take advantage of his cheap carrots, only to discover that the price hasn't been updated in months. Also on this page you have oranges at $1.49kg per kg - lose the first kg. Make and document decisions about details like capitalisation and punctuation. It's less a matter of there being a right way (although there are any number of style guides around) than one of using a consistent approach. Most authorities these days tend to lean towards minimal caps and punctuation (so Pty Ltd, not PTY. LTD.) On your list of Today's specials, for example, mushrooms are $3.99 / kg. while strawberries are $2.99 a Punnet. and tomatoes are $7.99 a tray. Decide whether or not to use spaces either side of the slash, a period after kg, and whether to capitalise both trays and punnets, or neither. I would probably have combined the History and Staff pages into an About us (or About Joe's) page. I'd also combine the Fruit and vegetable links and Fruit and vegetable recipes pages into a single page (after all, they're both lists of links). Overall, a pleasant and easy-to-use site. Elizabeth Spiegel Web editing 0409 986 158 GPO Box 729, Hobart TAS 7001 www.spiegelweb.com.au -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Marvin Hunkin Sent: Thursday, 4 February 2010 9:47 AM To: WSG@WEBSTANDARDSGROUP.ORG Subject: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE HI. CAN SOME ONE TAKE A FINAL LOOK AT THIS SITE. AND GOT 2 FONTS. ONE VERDANA AND ONE Arial black. do i need any other fonts. and does it look really good? and also any other improvements. let me know. and if i need to make any changes. tell me how to do this. marvin. http://www.raulferrer.com/joe/html/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE
Marvin Hunkin wrote: HI. CAN SOME ONE TAKE A FINAL LOOK AT THIS SITE. AND GOT 2 FONTS. ONE VERDANA AND ONE Arial black. do i need any other fonts. and does it look really good? and also any other improvements. let me know. and if i need to make any changes. tell me how to do this. marvin. http://www.raulferrer.com/joe/html/ It is fine, Marvin. Not to worry. You are doing well. The pages I checked show valid html/css. The fonts are good to go. Nice job. Best, ~d -- desktop http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ mobile http://chelseacreekstudio.mobi/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE
2c from me: Clean up the main navigation - make it one deck - move copyright and credits links to the footer. Henrik Madsen +61 08 9387 1250 hen...@igenerator.com.au www.igenerator.com.au On 04/02/2010, at 6:47 AM, Marvin Hunkin wrote: HI. CAN SOME ONE TAKE A FINAL LOOK AT THIS SITE. AND GOT 2 FONTS. ONE VERDANA AND ONE Arial black. do i need any other fonts. and does it look really good? and also any other improvements. let me know. and if i need to make any changes. tell me how to do this. marvin. http://www.raulferrer.com/joe/html/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Marvin Hunkin
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 2:47 PM
To: WSG@WEBSTANDARDSGROUP.ORG
Subject: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE
HI.
CAN SOME ONE TAKE A FINAL LOOK AT THIS SITE.
AND GOT 2 FONTS.
ONE VERDANA AND ONE Arial black.
do i need any other fonts.
and does it look really good?
and also any other improvements.
let me know.
and if i need to make any changes.
tell me how to do this.
marvin.
http://www.raulferrer.com/joe/html/
Marvin,
As I mentioned in a previous post, font-family names that contain a space
need to be between quotes, so you should use:
h1 {
font-family: Arial Black;
text-align: center;
}
instead of:
h1 {
font-family: Arial Black;
text-align: center;
}
--
Regards,
Thierry | www.tjkdesign.com
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Re: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE
Thierry Koblentz wrote:
http://www.raulferrer.com/joe/html/
Marvin,
As I mentioned in a previous post, font-family names that contain a space
need to be between quotes, so you should use:
h1 {
font-family: Arial Black;
text-align: center;
}
instead of:
h1 {
font-family: Arial Black;
text-align: center;
}
--
Regards,
Thierry | www.tjkdesign.com
Granted. But how about we give Marvin the benefit of doubt?
http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile=css21warning=0uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.raulferrer.com%2Fjoe%2Fhtml%2F
Best,
Helen
--
desktop
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/
mobile
http://chelseacreekstudio.mobi/
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Re: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE
At 2/3/2010 02:47 PM, Marvin Hunkin wrote:
http://www.raulferrer.com/joe/html/
Hi Marvin,
Overall I found this to be a clear and attractive site. Good work!
A few quick notes:
1) Phone number formats vary from place to place, but in North
America at least the convention is to insert spacing or punctuation
between the first '1' and the area code. I would change
1800-Joe-Fruit to 1-800-Joe-Fruit unless the Australian convention differs.
2) Many people find phone numbers translated to letters annoying or
difficult to use. I recommend that you repeat the phone number in all
digits: Phone 1-800-Joe-Fruit (1-800-563-37848)
3) The address of the shop at the bottom of the home page looks odd
because the lines are spaced apart, which is the default styling for
paragraphs but not for addresses. I suggest using either a break tag
between lines (addresses and poetry being two good opportunities for
the poor unappreciated break tag to do its thing) or style those
paragraphs with no margin-bottom. In order to separate the mailing
address from the phone number lines, I would do this by enclosing the
physical address in one div and the phone number lines in another:
div class=contact
pJoe's Fruit Shop/p
p55 Main Road/p
pAnytown 2999/p
/div
div class=contact
pPhone: 9555-9876/p
pFor phone orders: 1800-Joe-Fruit/p
/div
with the styling rule:
div.contact
{
margin-bottom: 1em;
}
div.contact p
{
margin-bottom: 0;
}
That will leave a gap between clusters of paragraphs but no space
between the paragraphs themselves inside each div.
4) On the Recipes page you are using break tags to insert space after
the h3 subheads. Please remove them, and any other break tags you're
using for spacing. The amount of space you've inserted here looks
unattractive, it's confusing because it separates a headline so much
from the text that belongs to it, and using break tags in this way
contradicts the separation of content from presentation that is one
of our industry's best practices today. If you want to present more
space after h3's, do so using your stylesheet.
5) The Search page seems out of place and mis-named. It's really an
index to the Produce page, not a search function. I would move the
index to the top of the Produce page. If you want a true Search page
you can do so easily using a common search engine. If you want to
keep this page on its own the way it is now, at least consider
renaming it Produce Index. I would place it immediately before or
after the Produce page in the menu.
6) In your main menu, Fruit And Vegetable Recipes might be better
called Fruit And Vegetable Recipe Links
7) On the Credits page, you've inserted two break tags immediately
inside the first list item, causing Mike Levin's Photo Gallery to
site two lines below its bullet. The main navigation menu has the
same problem, with break tags in the list item for the home page,
causing the nav menu to look broken on this page.
Regards,
Paul
__
Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com
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RE: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE
At 2/3/2010 02:47 PM, Marvin Hunkin wrote: http://www.raulferrer.com/joe/html/ You should check the Top of page links on the Recipes page. They each seem to go to the start of the previous recipe rather than to the top of the Web page. Kerry --- This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies of this transmission along with any attachments immediately. You should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. --- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE
Marvin, Have you thought about using a fluid-width layout for your web page? It would ensure your page is viewable on browsers smaller than your current maximum fixed-width. Otherwise, I actually think the rest of your site is fine. The simplicity of it all is so refreshing! :) Karl On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 10:50 AM, Webb, KerryA kerrya.w...@act.gov.au wrote: At 2/3/2010 02:47 PM, Marvin Hunkin wrote: http://www.raulferrer.com/joe/html/ You should check the Top of page links on the Recipes page. They each seem to go to the start of the previous recipe rather than to the top of the Web page. Kerry --- This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies of this transmission along with any attachments immediately. You should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. --- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE
For your named anchor tags (a name=Marvin/a, they don't have to be inside 'p' tags. They *do* need to be inside a block-level element, but they are already inside the 'main_content' div, so you should be fine for validation. Ethically, you probably should make your page more accessible to people with disabilities (vision impaired/blind users, non-mouse users etc). Consider the use of access keys, skip navigation links, title attributes on anchors etc. Luckily, your site's simplicity means it's more accessible than a lot of other sites already!!! :) Good luck! Karl On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Karl Lurman karl.lur...@gmail.com wrote: Marvin, Have you thought about using a fluid-width layout for your web page? It would ensure your page is viewable on browsers smaller than your current maximum fixed-width. Otherwise, I actually think the rest of your site is fine. The simplicity of it all is so refreshing! :) Karl On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 10:50 AM, Webb, KerryA kerrya.w...@act.gov.au wrote: At 2/3/2010 02:47 PM, Marvin Hunkin wrote: http://www.raulferrer.com/joe/html/ You should check the Top of page links on the Recipes page. They each seem to go to the start of the previous recipe rather than to the top of the Web page. Kerry --- This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies of this transmission along with any attachments immediately. You should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. --- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Karl Lurman Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:15 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE For your named anchor tags (a name=Marvin/a, they don't have to be inside 'p' tags. They *do* need to be inside a block-level element, but they are already inside the 'main_content' div, so you should be fine for validation. Ethically, you probably should make your page more accessible to people with disabilities (vision impaired/blind users, non-mouse users etc). Consider the use of access keys, skip navigation links, title attributes on anchors etc. Luckily, your site's simplicity means it's more accessible than a lot of other sites already!!! :) Fwiw, I don't agree about accesskeys [1]. Using title on anchors is also something I would not do. These links are meaningful already and title is ignored by most screen-reader users anyway. Besides, the tooltip that title creates is often a problem for people using screen magnifiers. [1] http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/user_defined_accesskeys.asp -- Regards, Thierry | www.tjkdesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE
Hi Marvin, On Wed, February 3, 2010 11:50 pm, Webb, KerryA wrote: You should check the Top of page links on the Recipes page. They each seem to go to the start of the previous recipe rather than to the top of the Web page. Kerry That is, you have links with duplicate link-text pointing to different anchors which contravenes accessibility standards. You already have the anchor a name=Top/a, so Top of page links should point to this, a href=#Top target=_topTop Of Page/a Stuart *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Stuart Foulstone Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:55 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE Hi Marvin, On Wed, February 3, 2010 11:50 pm, Webb, KerryA wrote: You should check the Top of page links on the Recipes page. They each seem to go to the start of the previous recipe rather than to the top of the Web page. Kerry That is, you have links with duplicate link-text pointing to different anchors which contravenes accessibility standards. You already have the anchor a name=Top/a, so Top of page links should point to this, a href=#Top target=_topTop Of Page/a If I recall, using top as a named anchor can be an issue in IE. In any case, if it is just to jump to the top of the page, I believe a simple # should work. As a side note, why using target in there? -- Regards, Thierry | www.tjkdesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE
Fwiw, I don't agree about accesskeys [1]. The article on your site seems to advocate the use of access keys. The concept of allowing users to define which access keys they can use is an interesting and clever approach. Have you got an example of this out in the wild? There are certainly pitfalls with access keys. That fact there isn't a set of standard access keys across various platforms/browsers, is a real shame and goes against them tremendously. Is this why your feelings on access key usage has changed? Or do you have some other reservations? Using title on anchors is also something I would not do. These links are meaningful already and title is ignored by most screen-reader users anyway. Besides, the tooltip that title creates is often a problem for people using screen magnifiers. I think that any additional content that might help a user, sight impaired or otherwise, can't be a bad thing. It adds to the document's semantic value and might also aid in SEO. You are right however, some screen readers will ignore this 'extra' content (other side of the coin, some will not). I think the problem is that the 'title' attribute is abused or used incorrectly. If it doesn't contain any additional semantic value, then perhaps it should be omitted. I was unaware that screen magnifiers may experience problems with tooltips... Thanks for the tip (no pun intended) on that. Karl *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Karl Lurman Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:22 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE Fwiw, I don't agree about accesskeys [1]. The article on your site seems to advocate the use of access keys. The concept of allowing users to define which access keys they can use is an interesting and clever approach. Have you got an example of this out in the wild? There are certainly pitfalls with access keys. That fact there isn't a set of standard access keys across various platforms/browsers, is a real shame and goes against them tremendously. Is this why your feelings on access key usage has changed? Yes, because by implementing them we take the risk to break the user's own shortcuts. That's why letting the user map his own is a safer approach. Or do you have some other reservations? Using title on anchors is also something I would not do. These links are meaningful already and title is ignored by most screen-reader users anyway. Besides, the tooltip that title creates is often a problem for people using screen magnifiers. I think that any additional content that might help a user, sight impaired or otherwise, can't be a bad thing. It adds to the document's semantic value and might also aid in SEO. You are right however, some screen readers will ignore this 'extra' content (other side of the coin, some will not). I think the problem is that the 'title' attribute is abused or used incorrectly. If it doesn't contain any additional semantic value, then perhaps it should be omitted. I was unaware that screen magnifiers may experience problems with tooltips... Thanks for the tip (no pun intended) on that. As you point out, the main problem with title is that people often use it to duplicate stuff or do keyword stuffing. In any case, I rarely found the need to use it (as as side note, most screen-readers won't ignore the title attribute when it is used with form controls). -- Regards, Thierry | www.tjkdesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Paul Novitski p...@juniperwebcraft.com wrote: A few quick notes: 1) Phone number formats vary from place to place, but in North America at least the convention is to insert spacing or punctuation between the first '1' and the area code. I would change 1800-Joe-Fruit to 1-800-Joe-Fruit unless the Australian convention differs. FWIW, the convention does vary and Marvin is correct in Australian usage. :) -- Josh Street http://josh.st/ +61 (0) 425 808 469 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Street Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:53 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Paul Novitski p...@juniperwebcraft.com wrote: A few quick notes: 1) Phone number formats vary from place to place, but in North America at least the convention is to insert spacing or punctuation between the first '1' and the area code. I would change 1800-Joe-Fruit to 1-800-Joe- Fruit unless the Australian convention differs. FWIW, the convention does vary and Marvin is correct in Australian usage. :) That's why using the lang attribute is a good idea ;) en-us vs. en-au... -- Regards, Thierry | www.tjkdesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE
Marvin Hunkin wrote: http://www.raulferrer.com/joe/html/ Marvin, Your site is fine. Take what you will. Ignore the rest. Remember, not to forget, you are an An Officer and a Gentleman. Best, Helen -- desktop http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ mobile http://chelseacreekstudio.mobi/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
