Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon???
Adam Martin skrev: Hey guys... it is great that talk about accessibility and chrome has been raised - but I do think that we need to wait until it is out of beta. A beta is supposed to be feature complete. otherwoise it's an alpha. Lars Gunther *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon???
On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 3:33 AM, Keryx Web [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Adam Martin skrev: Hey guys... it is great that talk about accessibility and chrome has been raised - but I do think that we need to wait until it is out of beta. A beta is supposed to be feature complete. otherwoise it's an alpha. Just clear up my understanding, folks; is Internet Explorer accessible because Microsoft builds the accessibility features, or because a third-party software vendor builds the features? I know Microsoft has been very good about building a number of user-friendly features into Windows, like the on-screen keyboard and OS-level magnifying tool, but I thought that all the screen readers and similar assistive devices were developed by third parties. If Google Chrome is really open source, then it seems that the same could be done for it, with a lot less expense than designing assistive software/devices for a proprietary browser. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon???
Hi Christian, Just clear up my understanding, folks; is Internet Explorer accessible because Microsoft builds the accessibility features The short answer is yes Details of the accessibility of internet Explorer can be found in the VPAT (voluntary product accessibility template) supplied by Microsoft: (http://download.microsoft.com/download/c/2/3/c23bc250-5f80-4d0c-a29d-877355ff91e8/IE7_VPAT%20version%201%200.doc) - word doc and the VPAT for Firefox 3 is available here: http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/vpat-3.html I have reproduced the relevant VPAT info for Internet Explorer 7 below: Section 1194.21 Software Applications and Operating Systems - Detail Voluntary Product Accessibility Template (a) When software is designed to run on a system that has a keyboard, product functions shall be executable from a keyboard where the function itself or the result of performing a function can be discerned textually. Supported with Exceptions: Windows Internet Explorer 7 supports all standard keyboard features of the user interface. Windows Internet Explorer 7 provides Help functionality that includes easily accessible reference guides for keyboard shortcuts. In addition, documentation on Keyboard Shortcut keys are available online: http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/Help/fe192a3f-1401-4233-919e-cae97eca4c0c1033.mspx More documents on this subject can be found at: http://www.microsoft.com/enable/products/keyboard.aspx Windows Internet Explorer 7 provides a new user interface; keyboard users can use the Alt key to activate the classical menu. Exceptions: Windows Internet Explorer 7 browser arbitrary text content cannot be selected by the keyboard. Text can be selected by using a mouse or other pointing device. Windows Internet Explorer 7 supports all standard keyboard operation of the user interface. Java and in-page plug-ins for content such as Flash cannot be used with the keyboard so they must not be installed for keyboard-only users. The tab order skips over in-page objects completely, so form controls within them cannot be used without a mouse. (b) Applications shall not disrupt or disable activated features of other products that are identified as accessibility features, where those features are developed and documented according to industry standards. Applications also shall not disrupt or disable activated features of any operating system that are identified as accessibility features where the application programming interface for those accessibility features has been documented by the manufacturer of the operating system and is available to the product developer. Supported with Exceptions: Windows Internet Explorer 7 supports system StickyKeys, FilterKeys, MouseKeys, SerialKeys and ToggleKeys. Exceptions: Windows Internet Explorer 7 does not use the cursor width from the system setting. (c) A well-defined on-screen indication of the current focus shall be provided that moves among interactive interface elements as the input focus changes. The focus shall be programmatically exposed so that Assistive Technology can track focus and focus changes. Supported with Exceptions: Windows Internet Explorer 7 uses programming interfaces to expose the location of the focus indicator and Microsoft Active Accessibility(R) to expose its interface elements to assistive technologies. Microsoft Active Accessibility is a COM-based technology that improves the way accessibility aids work with applications running on the Microsoft Windows operating systems. It provides dynamic-link libraries that are incorporated into the operating system, as well as a COM interface and application programming elements that provide reliable methods for exposing information about user interface elements. Exceptions: The caret indication is neither visible nor programmatically exposed in read-only fields. (d) Sufficient information about a user interface element including the identity, operation and state of the element shall be available to Assistive Technology. When an image represents a program element, the information conveyed by the image must also be available in text. Supported: Windows Internet Explorer 7 user interface elements are exposed programmatically through native object models and programming interfaces such as Microsoft Active Accessibility. Standard Windows controls and interface elements automatically expose this information through Microsoft Active Accessibility. Labels are associated with controls, objects, icons and images in Internet Explorer user interface. (e) When bitmap images are used to identify controls, status indicators, or other programmatic elements, the meaning assigned to those images shall be consistent throughout an application's performance. Supported: Windows Internet Explorer 7 utilizes standard and consistent images throughout. (f) Textual information shall be provided through operating system functions for displaying text. The minimum
Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon???
The short answer is yes Details of the accessibility of internet Explorer can be found in the VPAT (voluntary product accessibility template) supplied by Microsoft: (http://download.microsoft.com/download/c/2/3/c23bc250-5f80-4d0c-a29d-877355ff 91e8/IE7_VPAT%20version%201%200.doc) Thanks Steve! You can also download the VPAT word files for all of their products from their Section 508 VPATs for Microsoft products page here: http://www.microsoft.com/Industry/government/products/section508.mspx Search on the page for Internet Explorer 7.0 VPAT if you'd like the IE7 info as a 208k word file. Stimulating reading :) Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon???
Just got chrome on my XP machine. Looks good but I am concerned about accessibility. Again, thanks Steve. James Jeffery On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 5:19 PM, kevin erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Thank you for the report Steve. It was very helpful!! kevin On Wed, 03 Sep 2008 11:23:15 -0400, Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, this is the case. There has been a lot of talk about this in GAWDS, and Steve Faulkner has written about it at http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/?p=92. Basically it looks like there's no MSAA support. If they don't address this, many large organisations (at least in the UK) will not use it. I imagine that such organisations are exactly the people Google are expecting to build applications using Chrome, so hopefully this will be addressed at some point, ideally before it comes out of beta. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kevin erickson Sent: 03 September 2008 16:07 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon??? I have a huge concern about accessibility here. Apparently Jaws and other screen readers don't work on Google Chrome at all. Can others please confirm? kevin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon???
Hey guys... it is great that talk about accessibility and chrome has been raised - but I do think that we need to wait until it is out of beta. Cheers Adam - Original Message - From: James Jeffery To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 7:13 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon??? Just got chrome on my XP machine. Looks good but I am concerned about accessibility. Again, thanks Steve. James Jeffery On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 5:19 PM, kevin erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you for the report Steve. It was very helpful!! kevin On Wed, 03 Sep 2008 11:23:15 -0400, Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, this is the case. There has been a lot of talk about this in GAWDS, and Steve Faulkner has written about it at http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/?p=92. Basically it looks like there's no MSAA support. If they don't address this, many large organisations (at least in the UK) will not use it. I imagine that such organisations are exactly the people Google are expecting to build applications using Chrome, so hopefully this will be addressed at some point, ideally before it comes out of beta. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kevin erickson Sent: 03 September 2008 16:07 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon??? I have a huge concern about accessibility here. Apparently Jaws and other screen readers don't work on Google Chrome at all. Can others please confirm? kevin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon???
Adam wrote: Hey guys... it is great that talk about accessibility and chrome has been raised - but I do think that we need to wait until it is out of beta. Isn't that what beta is for - to get feedback for further development? And Gmail is still in beta after several years. Kerry --- This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies of this transmission along with any attachments immediately. You should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. --- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon???
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Martin Sent: 04 September 2008 23:33 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon??? Hey guys... it is great that talk about accessibility and chrome has been raised - but I do think that we need to wait until it is out of beta. Cheers Adam -- Why? Accessibility can't just be bolted on afterwards - it needs to be designed in from the start. The fact that the application cannot be used with just a keyboard is criminally negligent - that's a fundamental requirement of any application. The simplicity of the UI means it should have been really easy, and the fact that the application is device-dependent suggests that accessibility isn't on their radar at all. The fact that keyboard-only users, screen reader users and others cannot use the browser at all means that they are entirely excluded from the beta phase, so it seems they will not be able to provide feedback until it goes gold, if it ever does. For an organisation with Google's resources this is totally unacceptable. Steve *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon???
From: Adam Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon??? Hey guys... it is great that talk about accessibility and chrome has been raised - but I do think that we need to wait until it is out of beta. --- I think it might be in beta in perpetuity - sort of like g-mail and Adobe Spry. My guess is it protects them from litigation. I would be very surprised to ever see a shipping release. That said, I'm not sure what this all has to do with standards :-) -- Al Sparber - PVII http://www.projectseven.com Fully Automated Menu Systems | Galleries | Widgets http://www.projectseven.com/go/Elevators *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon???
Hey guys... it is great that talk about accessibility and chrome has been raised - but I do think that we need to wait until it is out of beta. Well... Google has a track record of a) keeping products in permanent beta; and b) never getting around to that pesky accessibility bit. So, personally I think waiting until its out of beta is a bad idea :) -- --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon???
I have a huge concern about accessibility here. Apparently Jaws and other screen readers don't work on Google Chrome at all. Can others please confirm? kevin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon???
Hi Kevin I have written about some of the accessibility issues with google chrome: http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/?p=92 regards stevef 2008/9/3 kevin erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I have a huge concern about accessibility here. Apparently Jaws and other screen readers don't work on Google Chrome at all. Can others please confirm? kevin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- with regards Steve Faulkner Technical Director - TPG Europe Director - Web Accessibility Tools Consortium www.paciellogroup.com | www.wat-c.org Web Accessibility Toolbar - http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon???
Yes, this is the case. There has been a lot of talk about this in GAWDS, and Steve Faulkner has written about it at http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/?p=92. Basically it looks like there's no MSAA support. If they don't address this, many large organisations (at least in the UK) will not use it. I imagine that such organisations are exactly the people Google are expecting to build applications using Chrome, so hopefully this will be addressed at some point, ideally before it comes out of beta. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kevin erickson Sent: 03 September 2008 16:07 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon??? I have a huge concern about accessibility here. Apparently Jaws and other screen readers don't work on Google Chrome at all. Can others please confirm? kevin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon???
Thank you for the report Steve. It was very helpful!! kevin On Wed, 03 Sep 2008 11:23:15 -0400, Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, this is the case. There has been a lot of talk about this in GAWDS, and Steve Faulkner has written about it at http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/?p=92. Basically it looks like there's no MSAA support. If they don't address this, many large organisations (at least in the UK) will not use it. I imagine that such organisations are exactly the people Google are expecting to build applications using Chrome, so hopefully this will be addressed at some point, ideally before it comes out of beta. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kevin erickson Sent: 03 September 2008 16:07 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Google chrome... Accessibility coming very soon??? I have a huge concern about accessibility here. Apparently Jaws and other screen readers don't work on Google Chrome at all. Can others please confirm? kevin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
